Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome back to another juicy behind the scenes
Speaker 1: episode of Little Fires Everywhere, the official podcast, the only
Speaker 1: place aspiring nine Shaker rights can get a full look
Speaker 1: at the heroic work going on behind the scenes on
Speaker 1: the Hulu drama series we are all addicted to. I
Speaker 1: am your co host Jamie Loftus, and oh boy, if
Speaker 1: you are listening to this after watching episode one of six,
Speaker 1: we have a lot to discuss. So, first of all, spoilers,
Speaker 1: whether we're talking about eighties Mia and Elena or nineties
Speaker 1: Mia and Elena, there is a lot going on. And
Speaker 1: if you're not giving recent Carrey's reactions in every scene
Speaker 1: at this point, I don't know you. Today on the pod,
Speaker 1: we're going to be talking to a lot of incredible people.
Speaker 1: We'll be talking to production designer Jess Kender, who brought
Speaker 1: a Lena and MIA's passed to life, including rebuilding the
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties art scene in New York. Will also be
Speaker 1: speaking with Liz tigg Lart, the Little Fires Everywhere showrunner,
Speaker 1: head writer, and executive producer, about building out this area
Speaker 1: of the show's world. But first, I was so excited
Speaker 1: to sit down with the two fabulous actors who played
Speaker 1: the eighties era Mia and Elena, Tiffany Boone and Anna
Speaker 1: Sofia Rob, respectively. I got a chance to sit down
Speaker 1: with them ahead of the Little Fires Everywhere premiere, and
Speaker 1: if you've seen the episode, you know that they are
Speaker 1: incredibly talented, but guess what, they're also super nice. Here's
Speaker 1: a little bit of our conversation. Oh okay, So first,
Speaker 1: if you could both introduce yourself and just say your character,
Speaker 1: name of you wonderful, and then we'll just start talking.
Speaker 1: I'm Tiffany Boone and I play young Mia, I'm on
Speaker 1: A Sophia Rob and I play young Elena Richardson. Awesome. Okay, So, Anna,
Speaker 1: Sophia and Tiffanya so excited to have you both here.
Speaker 1: This episode is being released the same week that we
Speaker 1: have now both met both of you. Um and your backstories.
Speaker 1: So I guess I wanted to start with what was
Speaker 1: your because um a lot. I mean, there's some of
Speaker 1: the Mia story included in the book, and none of
Speaker 1: the Elena story included in the book. So kind So
Speaker 1: what we're both of your reactions to first reading what
Speaker 1: happens to your character? Yeah, so the young Elena storyline,
Speaker 1: it felt so natural though I think that's what I was.
Speaker 1: I mean, I wasn't surprised by that, but I thought
Speaker 1: the author the writers did such a beautiful job in
Speaker 1: turning this sort of like snippets of Elena. I think
Speaker 1: there's like there's a passage of her talking about her
Speaker 1: relationship with Izzy, and we change it a little bit
Speaker 1: in the show to talk more about sort of um
Speaker 1: a slightly like unwanted pregnancy and then go deeper into that,
Speaker 1: and I think they really it's a it's such a
Speaker 1: different version of Elena, and we see her completely like
Speaker 1: unraveled and then have to like ravel herself back up.
Speaker 1: And so I think it's a really good opportunity to
Speaker 1: understand why she becomes the way she does and her
Speaker 1: sort of like desperation to have control because she knows
Speaker 1: what will happen to her if she thinks about the
Speaker 1: things that she could have been for me. There's certain
Speaker 1: things that are tangle in my brain between the book,
Speaker 1: in the script as far as um, as far as
Speaker 1: her story so um, but reading it, I was just
Speaker 1: like so interested in exploring how MEO, when she gets older,
Speaker 1: becomes this tough person to break through to, you know,
Speaker 1: and so to see all the challenges that she goes through,
Speaker 1: and it opens the audience up to like feel empathy
Speaker 1: for her um finding out her backstory. And that's interesting
Speaker 1: to me to be able to like just to read
Speaker 1: that and learn that, and then to be able to
Speaker 1: bring at to life and hopefully bring even more humanity
Speaker 1: to the characters so that people can understand why she
Speaker 1: makes some of the choices she makes. That was just
Speaker 1: really interesting to me. I mean, you both do so
Speaker 1: so incredible, and when you see your performances transition into
Speaker 1: Recent Carry, I feel like it almost for me double
Speaker 1: down and like, wow, they really killed it because the
Speaker 1: way that you both clearly took on the other actors
Speaker 1: mannerisms and their interpretation of the character, and you know,
Speaker 1: and and not even just doing like a copy paste
Speaker 1: of Recent Carry, but like it just it was so
Speaker 1: thoughtful and wonderful, and I'm glad that it was edited
Speaker 1: in a way that really like showed what an amazing
Speaker 1: performance both of you gave. Thank you, right, I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't know when thank you? So I guess I
Speaker 1: guess the obvious thing that everyone is interested in is
Speaker 1: how did you prepare to play younger versions of Recent Carry.
Speaker 1: What was the prep process for that for both of you?
Speaker 1: For me, I keep saying that I feel like I
Speaker 1: had and I'm sure you feel the same way. Um
Speaker 1: to Carry. I've been a fan of hers for so long,
Speaker 1: you know, Like I have been a fan since before
Speaker 1: she like everyone knew who she was. I watched her
Speaker 1: in this independent film called Lift and like two thousand five,
Speaker 1: and I would watch that film over and over again,
Speaker 1: and I've been a fan ever since. And like, I
Speaker 1: think she's a very specific actress. She takes a part
Speaker 1: of herself to every single character, but then like changes
Speaker 1: certain things, and so I've always kind of watched her process.
Speaker 1: So when we started working together, I had a conversation
Speaker 1: with her about the way she looked at the character
Speaker 1: and you know, her thoughts on it and everything like that.
Speaker 1: And then for two or three weeks I was just
Speaker 1: on set watching her scenes and taking notes of like
Speaker 1: her hand movements and her mouth and how she moved
Speaker 1: her head, and but trying not to mimic her as much,
Speaker 1: just like finding where the motivation for the stuff comes,
Speaker 1: because like I could just go in some hand movements
Speaker 1: or whatever, but I was trying to figure out, like
Speaker 1: choices that Carrie would make about the character, like, Okay,
Speaker 1: at this moment, she heard this line, and she took
Speaker 1: it this way, and she thought of it this way.
Speaker 1: And so by the time we got to my first
Speaker 1: day of shooting, I kind of just felt like I
Speaker 1: didn't have to think. I literally felt like I was
Speaker 1: thinking as Carrie as she would think the character. That
Speaker 1: makes any sense. So I really just thought of it
Speaker 1: as getting inside of Carrie's brain in a really strange
Speaker 1: way and just trying to live there for three weeks.
Speaker 1: That sounds really cool and really intense. Yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: and then what about you? Weirdly similar, Actually, Reese has
Speaker 1: been one of my idols for forever. I am also
Speaker 1: a child actor, so like I watched her movies when
Speaker 1: I was a kid, and and so I feel like
Speaker 1: I like watched her sort of grow up, and so
Speaker 1: like knowing her sort of mannerisms and her voice. And
Speaker 1: as soon as I got the audition, I listened to
Speaker 1: her book on tape and I would just like listen
Speaker 1: to her voice and her cadence and sort of like
Speaker 1: came on set, I would just sit at Video Village
Speaker 1: and watch Reese like I had a bunch of conversations
Speaker 1: with her, and she said, well, she's probably deferential to men,
Speaker 1: definitely like white privilege, and just in the sort of
Speaker 1: the intentionality of how she speaks, she made specific choices
Speaker 1: like definitely with this character and watching her where she
Speaker 1: would sort of squint and it's like this judgment of
Speaker 1: like I'm judging you, but I still am your best friend.
Speaker 1: And I remember Reese saying, I feel like Elena would
Speaker 1: join any club, but she'd have to be the president
Speaker 1: of that club. That was really helpful for all the
Speaker 1: scenes where she's really put together. But then I was
Speaker 1: asking Reese about I was like, I'm not a mom.
Speaker 1: What is it like to have mass sitis? Have you
Speaker 1: had like have you had postpartum? Like what is this?
Speaker 1: And she was just saying like, imagine just your hormones
Speaker 1: just being absolutely wild and literally like if she was
Speaker 1: like if anybody touched my baby, I would I would
Speaker 1: scream at them and this sort of like explosiveness. And
Speaker 1: so watching her on set, listening to her voice, she
Speaker 1: also recorded her lines my my lines for me because
Speaker 1: I wanted to hear her sort of like, well, I
Speaker 1: was just like I don't want to this up, you know,
Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, I might as well
Speaker 1: just ask and see if she and she did, and
Speaker 1: I was like, this is absolutely amazing. So I felt
Speaker 1: I felt creepy, Like I felt like I would watch
Speaker 1: her like a creepy amount. Did you feel that way, Tiffany?
Speaker 1: Like I just felt like I was just like shadowing
Speaker 1: her every move, listening to her voice, watching her face
Speaker 1: constantly trying to be respectful, but I'm also just trying
Speaker 1: to do my job. It'sionalon creepy them. I feel like
Speaker 1: a lot of times I would like not even tell
Speaker 1: Carrie when I was on set. I don't know if
Speaker 1: somebody else would, but I would just like I would
Speaker 1: never say I wouldn't even say hai to her. I
Speaker 1: just show up, watch and leave and that be it.
Speaker 1: Because I also didn't want her to feel like she
Speaker 1: was being watched, you know, like I just wanted her
Speaker 1: to like totally have she just still had a job
Speaker 1: to do, you know. So I was just kind of like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I just want to make myself like a ghost pretty much.
Speaker 1: Like it's weird how I don't know. I had this
Speaker 1: experience on set, that imposter syndrome because you're playing a
Speaker 1: Verton or like playing a version of somebody who is
Speaker 1: one of my like idols and then I'm playing this character.
Speaker 1: It was also just such a great experience. I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm going to watch Reese. I'm going to be able
Speaker 1: to soak all of this up. But what I didn't
Speaker 1: realize is I've never been on a set with so
Speaker 1: many supportive women and having like challenging conversations about motherhood
Speaker 1: and about class and about race and figuring all of
Speaker 1: this stuff out and constructing these characters and what they
Speaker 1: want to do, and watching being able to sit there
Speaker 1: and like do my job as an actor, but then
Speaker 1: also thinking, wow, this is one of my favorite sets
Speaker 1: I've ever been on in terms of like watching women collaborate,
Speaker 1: like so women. Yeah, yeah, I've never actually I have
Speaker 1: to actually amend this because I've said I've never been
Speaker 1: in a on a show that like where the video
Speaker 1: village was all women. I actually have one other time,
Speaker 1: but let me tell you it did not go like this.
Speaker 1: And it's because and it's because like it's not like
Speaker 1: they're not just having women there just to say they
Speaker 1: have women there, you know what I mean. Like sometimes
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, let's fill a quota, and let's say like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're being so progressive because we have a bunch of
Speaker 1: women here and whatever. And it doesn't always work because
Speaker 1: the women don't work with integrity and they don't necessarily
Speaker 1: care about the work, and they don't necessarily care about
Speaker 1: supporting other women and like and like doing the highest
Speaker 1: quality of work that they can. And these women, like,
Speaker 1: like you said, we're just so supportive, insanely supportive of
Speaker 1: what we were trying to do, trying to make sure
Speaker 1: that we were feeling our best and feeling like we
Speaker 1: were doing our best work, but also like just being
Speaker 1: like badasses and like running the sets so well and
Speaker 1: just it's one of the most inspiring um situations I've
Speaker 1: been in. Well, it didn't also, it didn't feel just
Speaker 1: like a, oh, we're making a TV show. It's where
Speaker 1: what is this show saying? Letting every single character like
Speaker 1: speak for themselves, but having like empathy for each of
Speaker 1: those characters and bringing them to full life, which I
Speaker 1: think is is one of the best parts of the show.
Speaker 1: And it seems like challenges for both of you specifically
Speaker 1: where you know you're you're each in this one episode
Speaker 1: and you have to pack so much empathy and moments
Speaker 1: where both of your characters aren't necessarily likable for the
Speaker 1: entire you know, quote unco quote likable and in the
Speaker 1: decisions that they make, because you're also playing a time
Speaker 1: period where I'm pretty sure neither of you were alive
Speaker 1: or but what was your initial in for being able
Speaker 1: to empathize with your character at the point that they're
Speaker 1: at in the flashbacks? When developing roles, like growing up
Speaker 1: in theater, our teachers would always be like, you just
Speaker 1: don't get to judge your characters. That's all understood. You
Speaker 1: don't get to judge them because the second you start
Speaker 1: judging them, you're not going to be able to do
Speaker 1: them justice. I mean, I don't know if I'm delusional
Speaker 1: because I was playing the part, but every decision she
Speaker 1: made still make sense to me. But because I that's
Speaker 1: when I was living, you know, that's what I was
Speaker 1: living as, and it made sense to me. She was
Speaker 1: desperate and you know, was losing so much all at once.
Speaker 1: She's young, and she's you know, so dedicated to her art,
Speaker 1: and she wants to prove herself, and you know, all
Speaker 1: she's falling in love. All these things are happening. I
Speaker 1: think what was helpful for me is visualizing Elena's story
Speaker 1: is this sort of tightly wound little like spring, and
Speaker 1: then there's this part in her life that just like
Speaker 1: you know, she's she goes to college, she has this boyfriend,
Speaker 1: her plan, she goes to Paris. Then there's this period
Speaker 1: in her life where she thinks it's going and then
Speaker 1: it just like completely just like unravels. It's just like
Speaker 1: splatter paint. How do you clean that back up? Like
Speaker 1: what would it feel like if I had a baby
Speaker 1: and the baby needs to eat and the baby won't
Speaker 1: eat and my boobs won't give it, Like it's nothing
Speaker 1: is working the way that it's supposed to, and feeling
Speaker 1: like everything is just on top of you and crumbling
Speaker 1: and you're fully coming apart. Absolutely, I really loved that
Speaker 1: edition of Elena having difficulty producing milk and like you're saying,
Speaker 1: her body not working quote unquote the way it was
Speaker 1: supposed to in these circumstances, because that really connected her too.
Speaker 1: I think e b and her storyline and it's like
Speaker 1: that's something as we the audience now, like, oh, Elena
Speaker 1: and Bibe have so much in common. They would have
Speaker 1: so much to talk about if Olenna, we're willing to
Speaker 1: have that conversation within the series, we're talking about motherhood,
Speaker 1: but it's also motherhood in class and like, so she's
Speaker 1: life is hard for her, but it's not as hard
Speaker 1: for her. It's like, oh, her, she's getting a remodel
Speaker 1: in her kitchen. She can still afford to get as
Speaker 1: much formula as she needs. But it's just, UM, it's
Speaker 1: that failure to see the other side. I've been asking
Speaker 1: everybody this question towards the end of an interview because
Speaker 1: I'm just everyone has a slightly different answer that I
Speaker 1: think is very interesting. UM, coming from your perspective of um,
Speaker 1: where you come into the show and what your connection
Speaker 1: to the character is. What do you hope that viewer
Speaker 1: takes away from watching this show. I feel like, if
Speaker 1: there's thing is about a certain character that upset you,
Speaker 1: tease that out, like with a friend, or talk about
Speaker 1: it and be able to sort of have those hard
Speaker 1: conversations about motherhood or about like if you can afford
Speaker 1: to have a child but you don't necessarily want to,
Speaker 1: how are you judging that character? Like that is a
Speaker 1: very sensitive, hard conversation to have, But I think it's
Speaker 1: worth rather than just like watching it and going and
Speaker 1: moving on with your life. I think it's meant to
Speaker 1: sort of be talked about in a broader sense, and
Speaker 1: I think there's so many moments like that throughout the series. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just feel like it raises so many really hard
Speaker 1: questions about class and race and intersectionality. Like it's just
Speaker 1: like it raises so many questions that I think are
Speaker 1: really hard for women to have, especially like black women
Speaker 1: and white women. Yeah, I think it's really hard for
Speaker 1: us to have conversation stations about our experiences where we
Speaker 1: don't get defensive when we're really listening to each other
Speaker 1: without bringing guilt into it. You know. It's just just
Speaker 1: from the point of view of playing Mia and a
Speaker 1: young black woman who comes into this world where she
Speaker 1: thinks she's the only one, the only outsider, and she's
Speaker 1: struggling to find her play and she has no money,
Speaker 1: and there's so much just in this this one character,
Speaker 1: and every character has that much going on, which is
Speaker 1: so amazing, you know. I mean, I just really hope
Speaker 1: that people who don't normally see themselves in a person
Speaker 1: of a different race or uh, different sexuality, you can
Speaker 1: watch this and go, oh, okay, I can see myself
Speaker 1: in this character, and maybe that will open them up
Speaker 1: to reaching out to someone who doesn't look like them
Speaker 1: or isn't in the same classes them and opening up
Speaker 1: a conversation and having those hard conversations and hopefully doing
Speaker 1: the work to you know, build their community out from that.
Speaker 1: That's so you both killed that answer. Yeah, and and
Speaker 1: thank you so much for sitting down with me. I
Speaker 1: truly cannot compliment both of your performances enough. You were
Speaker 1: both so wonderful. So congratulations. Yes, amazing job, and thank
Speaker 1: you so much for making the time to sit down
Speaker 1: with us. Thanks so much, thank you, thank you, Thank
Speaker 1: you so much to Anna, Sophia and Tiffany for talking
Speaker 1: with us. And oh my gosh, what performances. It takes
Speaker 1: more than masterful performances to sell the fully fleshed out
Speaker 1: flashback world we see an episode one of six. It
Speaker 1: also takes incredibly detailed production design. So next I decided
Speaker 1: to speak again with the Little Fires Everywhere production designer herself,
Speaker 1: Jess Kinder, who took on not just making an older
Speaker 1: version of Shaker Heights, but of New York City as well.
Speaker 1: Through some of our conversation. I'm Jess Kinder, the production
Speaker 1: designer of Little Fires Everywhere. Hey, Jes, how are you good? Okay?
Speaker 1: I am so excited to be talking with you again.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so much to discuss. I mean, I
Speaker 1: have a lot of questions about the production design process.
Speaker 1: You're not just creating a period piece. You're creating a
Speaker 1: period piece twice because you have nineties Shaker and you
Speaker 1: have eighties Shaker. So I guess to to backtrack a little,
Speaker 1: what was your research process for building out this world?
Speaker 1: I felt like the script was very, very clear on
Speaker 1: who the characters were, and so it was just as
Speaker 1: soon as I read it, I could see in my
Speaker 1: head what things should be, and it was a matter
Speaker 1: of just finding a way to present to the group
Speaker 1: like this is what I see. And so I ended
Speaker 1: up for Elena what I really felt like because my
Speaker 1: my dad was raised in Cleveland, we would go every year. Um.
Speaker 1: He actually had a paper out and Shaker heights, um.
Speaker 1: And so in my mind, the sort of level of
Speaker 1: affluence that we were trying to go for is this
Speaker 1: group of people who, while they're in the Midwest, they
Speaker 1: emulate almost more of sort of the New England vibe.
Speaker 1: So I pulled a lot of like Ralph Lauren and
Speaker 1: Laura Ashley and those type of vibes, and I tried
Speaker 1: to think back to when I was graduating college in
Speaker 1: n and like what was popular then, And so I
Speaker 1: started looking at like the Ethan Allen's because it's sort
Speaker 1: of this level of they don't have quite the level
Speaker 1: of money to go outside of the normal box you
Speaker 1: would look within, but they have enough money to go
Speaker 1: to the higher end places. Um. And when I started
Speaker 1: pulling those, I was actually pulling reference of interiors of
Speaker 1: actual Shaker Heights houses on like the MLS. And one
Speaker 1: of the times where I was like I am on
Speaker 1: the right track as I pulled a photo of a
Speaker 1: dining room from Shaker Heights that had the exact same
Speaker 1: dining set as the Ethan Allen ad I had pulled
Speaker 1: to pair with it. Oh, So it was like You're like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's it's totally spot on that this is what they're
Speaker 1: emulating exactly. Is a very like I don't know even
Speaker 1: and I feel like it reads so well in the
Speaker 1: sets that you designed of just like a very like
Speaker 1: Clinton era upper crust wealth look. Yeah. So I guess
Speaker 1: this is still this applies to the nineties and the eighties.
Speaker 1: But you shot the show in California, So how did
Speaker 1: you how how does that work? Cutting because it's you
Speaker 1: would never know. I mean you literally brought Ohio to California.
Speaker 1: Where do you start, Well, you start with a great
Speaker 1: location manager. So we have Baroni Vowel, who's fantastic UM
Speaker 1: and she's been doing it for decades, and so if
Speaker 1: you say we need to do east coast, Midwest here,
Speaker 1: she knows where to go. I've been lucky that I
Speaker 1: have also been working only in l A because I
Speaker 1: had two kids and decided I wasn't going to travel,
Speaker 1: and so I've been on a few shows that have
Speaker 1: done that, so you already know the basic pockets that
Speaker 1: can pass. And then we needed to sort of fine
Speaker 1: tune it down to Shaker Heights, UM. And so we
Speaker 1: actually scouted Ohio. Uh, so we didn't even have to
Speaker 1: just go off of pictures and honestly, I've been going
Speaker 1: there since I was born, UM, and so we knew
Speaker 1: already what type of house we were looking for Elena,
Speaker 1: and we knew general area where it might be, and
Speaker 1: so we just scouted around until we found it. Um.
Speaker 1: In fact, that started with Jason Kaplan, who was trained
Speaker 1: by Vernick. She came on just a little bit later. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so he found that um, and then we sort of picked.
Speaker 1: It's funny what we ended up with our Shaker Heights
Speaker 1: is almost a little more idealistic than the actual Shaker Heights. UM.
Speaker 1: It's we picked an area that when you picture in
Speaker 1: your mind sort of the most beautiful, warm, friendly downtown,
Speaker 1: you know, with the clock, and it would have the
Speaker 1: church people, and it would have all those things. We
Speaker 1: found that made it into our Shaker Heights where their
Speaker 1: square is. Actually it's not quite that, it's almost one
Speaker 1: step below. But we were sort of creating this ideal
Speaker 1: world that then you find out is getting eaten away
Speaker 1: from the inside right right where you're just like it's
Speaker 1: it's so perfect that it almost comes across a little
Speaker 1: sinister sometimes. So we we talked a little bit in
Speaker 1: our last episode about your choices about setting this Shaker
Speaker 1: in the nineties. So then when we do the flashback episode,
Speaker 1: we also get a glimpse, you know, around the time
Speaker 1: that Elena is pregnant with Izzy, so you just sort
Speaker 1: of you know, d aged the place. So what is
Speaker 1: that process of we know what this place looks like
Speaker 1: in okay, how did it look in four? So what
Speaker 1: I loved about that is, honestly, the exteriors remain basically
Speaker 1: the same, except the cars in front of them change
Speaker 1: because exteriors don't age in the same way that interiors
Speaker 1: do things. I don't think the car is yeah, but
Speaker 1: the interiors was fantastic because we got to see the
Speaker 1: apartment as MIA's apartment and then what it looked like
Speaker 1: in Elena's world before Elena fully came into Elena. So
Speaker 1: we got to play around with eighties stuff, which was fun,
Speaker 1: but for me seeing the apartment have a different character
Speaker 1: was almost more exciting. And then when we went into
Speaker 1: her house to see it as her mom's, we took
Speaker 1: that back more to like the sixties seventies, which is
Speaker 1: super fun time period to do, and watched her and
Speaker 1: the control that we see that she normally has, Like
Speaker 1: if you look around, she would never be in that kitchen.
Speaker 1: What we did to it, it was fun to see
Speaker 1: her dropped into that environment. And then even I mean
Speaker 1: I liked the addition by by the writers, but the
Speaker 1: way that you brought it to life was so cool
Speaker 1: of like the remodel where you literally see the constructed
Speaker 1: world from the nineties. Her in the process of making
Speaker 1: that happen is like such a cool character beat to
Speaker 1: visually see. And then and then we have this whole
Speaker 1: other set piece of New York in the eighties that
Speaker 1: sounds like another huge kind of undertaking. So when you
Speaker 1: read the script of Okay, this is where we are
Speaker 1: in New York, this is this is the scene we're in.
Speaker 1: She's a student. What was your preparation process for bringing
Speaker 1: that to life? Well, the the great thing there was
Speaker 1: So I was raised in Jersey, right across the bridge
Speaker 1: from Manhattan, so I came up in the eighties. Um
Speaker 1: and And Zingard, director for that episode, has a super
Speaker 1: clear vision of ways we were going to accentuate the eighties.
Speaker 1: For example, if you look, we kind of controlled the
Speaker 1: color palette. They're a little bit more like it's much
Speaker 1: more black, white and red, which is sort of what
Speaker 1: I think of. You know, it's funny. I actually we
Speaker 1: originally had some scenes that were going to be in
Speaker 1: the Bronx, and I thought, you know, it's like the
Speaker 1: Boogie Down Bronx time. Except it turns out that came
Speaker 1: like one year after we were doing But it was
Speaker 1: one of those where it's such an evocative time when
Speaker 1: New York was still dirty and still gritty, and uh,
Speaker 1: there are so many strong visual references um with and
Speaker 1: Zinga leading it. It was. It was a very easy
Speaker 1: translation to see, you know, graffiti everywhere, but let's play
Speaker 1: with these highlights and this rawness and it it came
Speaker 1: together really easily. Absolutely, thank you so much for taking
Speaker 1: the time, Jess. We appreciate it. Thank you again to
Speaker 1: Jess Kender, creator of Worlds. And to round out this
Speaker 1: flashback themed episode, I wanted to talk to Liz Tigelaar again.
Speaker 1: So if you don't remember, she is the wonderful showrunner,
Speaker 1: head writer, and executive producer of Little Fires Everywhere and
Speaker 1: put a lot of care and thought into building this
Speaker 1: flashback world that doesn't really exist in the book. So
Speaker 1: Liz was kind of enough to sit down with me
Speaker 1: recently and walk me through what that process is like,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to share it with you. Here's our conversation.
Speaker 1: One of the things that was so cool about the
Speaker 1: book obviously was the like humongous reveal of the mystery
Speaker 1: of me as backstory, and I think we knew when
Speaker 1: we did UM, when we got to that episode, we
Speaker 1: knew we needed an equal reveal of an Atlanta back story.
Speaker 1: So that was something that we really talked about. And
Speaker 1: in terms of jumping around in time, like you said, UM,
Speaker 1: we always wanted to do these kind of unique nonlinear
Speaker 1: cold opens to start to get us in this feeling
Speaker 1: that we could be jumping around in the beginning, and
Speaker 1: of course that cold open would be resonant to what
Speaker 1: the theme or um, the plot of that upcoming episode
Speaker 1: was or whose character story was featured and UM, so
Speaker 1: that by the time we get to six, it's our
Speaker 1: flashback episode. And what ends up happening is you start
Speaker 1: with your nonlinear cold open, and our idea was that
Speaker 1: you just never come out of it. So you're we're
Speaker 1: telling the audience that it's going to feel one way,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, it's like, why are
Speaker 1: we still in the eighties? Why are we still in
Speaker 1: the eighties? Um? And originally we had had Elena's whole
Speaker 1: story in the eighties being episode six, but then we
Speaker 1: really and we had a different opening to five. This
Speaker 1: was still in the writing process. This is in the
Speaker 1: writing process, and this was. This was pretty far in
Speaker 1: the writing process, but we felt like we did have
Speaker 1: this whole New York story with Elena in five where
Speaker 1: she goes to New York and in the book she
Speaker 1: has an ex boyfriend named Jamie that's given a few lines.
Speaker 1: That was something that we really wanted to take from
Speaker 1: the book and then just be like, Okay, how can
Speaker 1: we take this little seed that's ce Lesque planted a
Speaker 1: backstory and like grow it in to an entire backstory
Speaker 1: for Elena? Yeah, I mean, what were were there other
Speaker 1: contenders in terms of I mean, because like you're saying,
Speaker 1: it's it's just a real like nibble of information that
Speaker 1: Celesti gives you in the book and you turn it
Speaker 1: into a really thoughtful, um, you know, centerpiece for Elena's background.
Speaker 1: Were there other things in that were contenders in the
Speaker 1: writer's room of oh, maybe we could show this side
Speaker 1: of her, this side of her? What? Um what drew
Speaker 1: you to that specific storyline and expanding on it. I
Speaker 1: feel like we maybe talked about a couple of different things,
Speaker 1: but that had always emerged very early as what we
Speaker 1: wanted to focus on because I felt like in the
Speaker 1: book and I mean, what is in the book is
Speaker 1: that Elena has always had a complicated relationship with Izzy.
Speaker 1: And in the book it was discussed about how even
Speaker 1: Elena's pregnancy was hard, and that when Izzy was born,
Speaker 1: she was in the nick you and she was a
Speaker 1: sick kid, and that Elena was always so worried and
Speaker 1: so fiercely protective, and that that dynamic really colored their
Speaker 1: relationship and shape their relationship. And Izzy was kind of
Speaker 1: a fearless kid and Elena was so fearful of her
Speaker 1: and then almost and did the energy that Izzy required.
Speaker 1: And we thought, you know, how could we how could
Speaker 1: we take that spirit but maybe folded into something that
Speaker 1: could involve Elena's backstory and a broader sense. So we
Speaker 1: thought if instead of dealing with this idea that Izzy
Speaker 1: was a sick kid and Elena was protective, what if
Speaker 1: we what if we took from what ends up being
Speaker 1: the Lexi story and and took the backstory of like this,
Speaker 1: that there's always been this fratt nous with Izzy, and
Speaker 1: we used it to explore abortion and choice and um
Speaker 1: and what your parents teach you and who who's allowed
Speaker 1: to do certain things and who's not allowed to do
Speaker 1: certain things, and how could we tell a story of
Speaker 1: Elena not wanting to have a fourth kid and having
Speaker 1: a resentment towards that kid because she couldn't do something
Speaker 1: that she wanted to do, which was make the choice
Speaker 1: to not have a fourth kid. And how could we
Speaker 1: show that her own daughter while still while still learning
Speaker 1: um uh, I don't want to say learning not great
Speaker 1: things from her, but but while still echoing Elena's beliefs,
Speaker 1: maybe in a in a way that's not involving a
Speaker 1: lot of critical thought that she still is different than
Speaker 1: her mother in the idea that in the nineties, in
Speaker 1: her situation, she does have the agency and and does
Speaker 1: have the confidence and access Yeah, yeah, most importantly access
Speaker 1: to make that choice. Thank you again to Liz Tiggler,
Speaker 1: and you can look forward to hearing more of her
Speaker 1: later in the podcast series. And we've only got two
Speaker 1: more episodes before this podcast series wraps up, because I
Speaker 1: guess what, there's only two more episodes of Little Fires
Speaker 1: Everywhere and things are heating up. So that's gonna do
Speaker 1: it for us this week. Next week, I'm gonna be
Speaker 1: talking with the team cast of Little Fires Everywhere about
Speaker 1: their experiences on the set and an in depth discussion
Speaker 1: about the issues raised by the adoption storyline on the show,
Speaker 1: so a lot to look forward to their In the meantime,
Speaker 1: you can follow Little Fires everywhere across all your social
Speaker 1: media's at Little Fires Hulu and watch new episodes every
Speaker 1: Wednesday on Hulu, with episodes of our podcast being released
Speaker 1: shortly after. So subscribe now so you don't forget, and
Speaker 1: I will see you next time. Sweet Shaker Rights m