WEBVTT - Flashback 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:20.440 Hello, and welcome back to another juicy behind the scenes 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:24.439 episode of Little Fires Everywhere, the official podcast, the only 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:27.840 place aspiring nine Shaker rights can get a full look 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:30.400 at the heroic work going on behind the scenes on 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:33.479 the Hulu drama series we are all addicted to. I 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:36.639 am your co host Jamie Loftus, and oh boy, if 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:39.160 you are listening to this after watching episode one of six, 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:43.000 we have a lot to discuss. So, first of all, spoilers, 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:46.159 whether we're talking about eighties Mia and Elena or nineties 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:49.440 Mia and Elena, there is a lot going on. And 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:51.960 if you're not giving recent Carrey's reactions in every scene 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:54.920 at this point, I don't know you. Today on the pod, 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:57.160 we're going to be talking to a lot of incredible people. 0:00:57.240 --> 0:00:59.840 We'll be talking to production designer Jess Kender, who brought 0:00:59.880 --> 0:01:03.480 a Lena and MIA's passed to life, including rebuilding the 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:06.120 nineteen eighties art scene in New York. Will also be 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:09.720 speaking with Liz tigg Lart, the Little Fires Everywhere showrunner, 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:13.840 head writer, and executive producer, about building out this area 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:17.520 of the show's world. But first, I was so excited 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.400 to sit down with the two fabulous actors who played 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:23.800 the eighties era Mia and Elena, Tiffany Boone and Anna 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:26.880 Sofia Rob, respectively. I got a chance to sit down 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:29.440 with them ahead of the Little Fires Everywhere premiere, and 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:31.920 if you've seen the episode, you know that they are 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:35.800 incredibly talented, but guess what, they're also super nice. Here's 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:39.520 a little bit of our conversation. Oh okay, So first, 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:43.840 if you could both introduce yourself and just say your character, 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:46.720 name of you wonderful, and then we'll just start talking. 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:50.920 I'm Tiffany Boone and I play young Mia, I'm on 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:56.160 A Sophia Rob and I play young Elena Richardson. Awesome. Okay, So, Anna, 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:59.000 Sophia and Tiffanya so excited to have you both here. 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:02.840 This episode is being released the same week that we 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:07.560 have now both met both of you. Um and your backstories. 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:10.000 So I guess I wanted to start with what was 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:12.760 your because um a lot. I mean, there's some of 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:15.320 the Mia story included in the book, and none of 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:19.760 the Elena story included in the book. So kind So 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:23.560 what we're both of your reactions to first reading what 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:26.720 happens to your character? Yeah, so the young Elena storyline, 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:29.080 it felt so natural though I think that's what I was. 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:31.120 I mean, I wasn't surprised by that, but I thought 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:33.679 the author the writers did such a beautiful job in 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:37.000 turning this sort of like snippets of Elena. I think 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:40.160 there's like there's a passage of her talking about her 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:43.399 relationship with Izzy, and we change it a little bit 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:47.560 in the show to talk more about sort of um 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:52.720 a slightly like unwanted pregnancy and then go deeper into that, 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:57.440 and I think they really it's a it's such a 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:01.600 different version of Elena, and we see her completely like 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:05.040 unraveled and then have to like ravel herself back up. 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:06.960 And so I think it's a really good opportunity to 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:13.000 understand why she becomes the way she does and her 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:17.560 sort of like desperation to have control because she knows 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:20.560 what will happen to her if she thinks about the 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:23.919 things that she could have been for me. There's certain 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:26.720 things that are tangle in my brain between the book, 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:31.040 in the script as far as um, as far as 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:34.320 her story so um, but reading it, I was just 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:41.840 like so interested in exploring how MEO, when she gets older, 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:44.920 becomes this tough person to break through to, you know, 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:47.840 and so to see all the challenges that she goes through, 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:52.360 and it opens the audience up to like feel empathy 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:55.680 for her um finding out her backstory. And that's interesting 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:58.120 to me to be able to like just to read 0:03:58.160 --> 0:03:59.720 that and learn that, and then to be able to 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:03.640 bring at to life and hopefully bring even more humanity 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:06.560 to the characters so that people can understand why she 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:08.600 makes some of the choices she makes. That was just 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:11.600 really interesting to me. I mean, you both do so 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:16.680 so incredible, and when you see your performances transition into 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:19.719 Recent Carry, I feel like it almost for me double 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:22.880 down and like, wow, they really killed it because the 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:27.080 way that you both clearly took on the other actors 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:31.159 mannerisms and their interpretation of the character, and you know, 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:33.280 and and not even just doing like a copy paste 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:35.840 of Recent Carry, but like it just it was so 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:40.040 thoughtful and wonderful, and I'm glad that it was edited 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:43.200 in a way that really like showed what an amazing 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:46.560 performance both of you gave. Thank you, right, I was like, 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:49.480 I don't know when thank you? So I guess I 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:52.080 guess the obvious thing that everyone is interested in is 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:57.719 how did you prepare to play younger versions of Recent Carry. 0:04:57.839 --> 0:04:59.919 What was the prep process for that for both of you? 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.080 For me, I keep saying that I feel like I 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:05.880 had and I'm sure you feel the same way. Um 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:09.760 to Carry. I've been a fan of hers for so long, 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:12.600 you know, Like I have been a fan since before 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:15.360 she like everyone knew who she was. I watched her 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:18.320 in this independent film called Lift and like two thousand five, 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:20.279 and I would watch that film over and over again, 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:23.560 and I've been a fan ever since. And like, I 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:26.600 think she's a very specific actress. She takes a part 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:29.719 of herself to every single character, but then like changes 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:33.000 certain things, and so I've always kind of watched her process. 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:37.039 So when we started working together, I had a conversation 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:38.839 with her about the way she looked at the character 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:41.560 and you know, her thoughts on it and everything like that. 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:43.880 And then for two or three weeks I was just 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:48.720 on set watching her scenes and taking notes of like 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:52.400 her hand movements and her mouth and how she moved 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:55.560 her head, and but trying not to mimic her as much, 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:59.240 just like finding where the motivation for the stuff comes, 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:01.279 because like I could just go in some hand movements 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:03.720 or whatever, but I was trying to figure out, like 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:06.880 choices that Carrie would make about the character, like, Okay, 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:09.280 at this moment, she heard this line, and she took 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:11.119 it this way, and she thought of it this way. 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:14.520 And so by the time we got to my first 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:17.440 day of shooting, I kind of just felt like I 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:20.279 didn't have to think. I literally felt like I was 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:24.280 thinking as Carrie as she would think the character. That 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:26.880 makes any sense. So I really just thought of it 0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:29.600 as getting inside of Carrie's brain in a really strange 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:32.000 way and just trying to live there for three weeks. 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:36.640 That sounds really cool and really intense. Yes, yes, yes, 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:40.960 and then what about you? Weirdly similar, Actually, Reese has 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:44.960 been one of my idols for forever. I am also 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:48.320 a child actor, so like I watched her movies when 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:50.880 I was a kid, and and so I feel like 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:53.719 I like watched her sort of grow up, and so 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:57.400 like knowing her sort of mannerisms and her voice. And 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:01.279 as soon as I got the audition, I listened to 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:05.040 her book on tape and I would just like listen 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:07.880 to her voice and her cadence and sort of like 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:11.400 came on set, I would just sit at Video Village 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:15.400 and watch Reese like I had a bunch of conversations 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:18.800 with her, and she said, well, she's probably deferential to men, 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:22.520 definitely like white privilege, and just in the sort of 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:28.120 the intentionality of how she speaks, she made specific choices 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:30.400 like definitely with this character and watching her where she 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:32.800 would sort of squint and it's like this judgment of 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:36.840 like I'm judging you, but I still am your best friend. 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:43.560 And I remember Reese saying, I feel like Elena would 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:46.920 join any club, but she'd have to be the president 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:49.960 of that club. That was really helpful for all the 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:54.160 scenes where she's really put together. But then I was 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:56.880 asking Reese about I was like, I'm not a mom. 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:00.320 What is it like to have mass sitis? Have you 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:03.080 had like have you had postpartum? Like what is this? 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:08.600 And she was just saying like, imagine just your hormones 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:11.600 just being absolutely wild and literally like if she was 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:13.360 like if anybody touched my baby, I would I would 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.920 scream at them and this sort of like explosiveness. And 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:20.720 so watching her on set, listening to her voice, she 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:24.400 also recorded her lines my my lines for me because 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.560 I wanted to hear her sort of like, well, I 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:30.160 was just like I don't want to this up, you know, 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:33.160 I was like, I was like, I might as well 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:36.400 just ask and see if she and she did, and 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:39.080 I was like, this is absolutely amazing. So I felt 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:41.920 I felt creepy, Like I felt like I would watch 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:44.160 her like a creepy amount. Did you feel that way, Tiffany? 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:46.800 Like I just felt like I was just like shadowing 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:51.080 her every move, listening to her voice, watching her face 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:53.720 constantly trying to be respectful, but I'm also just trying 0:08:53.720 --> 0:09:00.840 to do my job. It'sionalon creepy them. I feel like 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:03.000 a lot of times I would like not even tell 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:05.120 Carrie when I was on set. I don't know if 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:07.880 somebody else would, but I would just like I would 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:09.560 never say I wouldn't even say hai to her. I 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:12.320 just show up, watch and leave and that be it. 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:14.400 Because I also didn't want her to feel like she 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:16.800 was being watched, you know, like I just wanted her 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:19.560 to like totally have she just still had a job 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:21.640 to do, you know. So I was just kind of like, Okay, 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:24.200 I just want to make myself like a ghost pretty much. 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:27.520 Like it's weird how I don't know. I had this 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:31.520 experience on set, that imposter syndrome because you're playing a 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:34.560 Verton or like playing a version of somebody who is 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:38.600 one of my like idols and then I'm playing this character. 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.600 It was also just such a great experience. I was like, Okay, 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:43.440 I'm going to watch Reese. I'm going to be able 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:45.160 to soak all of this up. But what I didn't 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:49.720 realize is I've never been on a set with so 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:57.080 many supportive women and having like challenging conversations about motherhood 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:00.040 and about class and about race and figuring all of 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.120 this stuff out and constructing these characters and what they 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:05.920 want to do, and watching being able to sit there 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:08.360 and like do my job as an actor, but then 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:12.120 also thinking, wow, this is one of my favorite sets 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:15.760 I've ever been on in terms of like watching women collaborate, 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:21.720 like so women. Yeah, yeah, I've never actually I have 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:24.120 to actually amend this because I've said I've never been 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:26.320 in a on a show that like where the video 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:28.600 village was all women. I actually have one other time, 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:31.440 but let me tell you it did not go like this. 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:35.000 And it's because and it's because like it's not like 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:37.800 they're not just having women there just to say they 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:39.959 have women there, you know what I mean. Like sometimes 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:42.920 it's like, oh, let's fill a quota, and let's say like, oh, 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.120 we're being so progressive because we have a bunch of 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:48.640 women here and whatever. And it doesn't always work because 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:51.240 the women don't work with integrity and they don't necessarily 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:53.640 care about the work, and they don't necessarily care about 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:57.760 supporting other women and like and like doing the highest 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:01.720 quality of work that they can. And these women, like, 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:05.160 like you said, we're just so supportive, insanely supportive of 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:07.120 what we were trying to do, trying to make sure 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:10.679 that we were feeling our best and feeling like we 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:13.920 were doing our best work, but also like just being 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:18.120 like badasses and like running the sets so well and 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:22.600 just it's one of the most inspiring um situations I've 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:26.120 been in. Well, it didn't also, it didn't feel just 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:30.319 like a, oh, we're making a TV show. It's where 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:34.240 what is this show saying? Letting every single character like 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:37.920 speak for themselves, but having like empathy for each of 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:40.400 those characters and bringing them to full life, which I 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:43.040 think is is one of the best parts of the show. 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:47.479 And it seems like challenges for both of you specifically 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:50.439 where you know you're you're each in this one episode 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:54.800 and you have to pack so much empathy and moments 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:58.480 where both of your characters aren't necessarily likable for the 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.160 entire you know, quote unco quote likable and in the 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:04.760 decisions that they make, because you're also playing a time 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:06.920 period where I'm pretty sure neither of you were alive 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:15.400 or but what was your initial in for being able 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:18.200 to empathize with your character at the point that they're 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:21.160 at in the flashbacks? When developing roles, like growing up 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:23.520 in theater, our teachers would always be like, you just 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:26.640 don't get to judge your characters. That's all understood. You 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:29.000 don't get to judge them because the second you start 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:32.200 judging them, you're not going to be able to do 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:35.199 them justice. I mean, I don't know if I'm delusional 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:37.480 because I was playing the part, but every decision she 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:40.160 made still make sense to me. But because I that's 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:42.160 when I was living, you know, that's what I was 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:44.240 living as, and it made sense to me. She was 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:47.560 desperate and you know, was losing so much all at once. 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:52.240 She's young, and she's you know, so dedicated to her art, 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.640 and she wants to prove herself, and you know, all 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:58.320 she's falling in love. All these things are happening. I 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:02.880 think what was helpful for me is visualizing Elena's story 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:07.360 is this sort of tightly wound little like spring, and 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:10.760 then there's this part in her life that just like 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:13.920 you know, she's she goes to college, she has this boyfriend, 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:17.120 her plan, she goes to Paris. Then there's this period 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:19.199 in her life where she thinks it's going and then 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:22.600 it just like completely just like unravels. It's just like 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:26.199 splatter paint. How do you clean that back up? Like 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:29.560 what would it feel like if I had a baby 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:33.200 and the baby needs to eat and the baby won't 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:36.480 eat and my boobs won't give it, Like it's nothing 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:39.959 is working the way that it's supposed to, and feeling 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:43.440 like everything is just on top of you and crumbling 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:47.440 and you're fully coming apart. Absolutely, I really loved that 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:52.360 edition of Elena having difficulty producing milk and like you're saying, 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:54.599 her body not working quote unquote the way it was 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:59.200 supposed to in these circumstances, because that really connected her too. 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:02.800 I think e b and her storyline and it's like 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:05.760 that's something as we the audience now, like, oh, Elena 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.600 and Bibe have so much in common. They would have 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.080 so much to talk about if Olenna, we're willing to 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:15.040 have that conversation within the series, we're talking about motherhood, 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:20.080 but it's also motherhood in class and like, so she's 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:23.080 life is hard for her, but it's not as hard 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:25.680 for her. It's like, oh, her, she's getting a remodel 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:29.040 in her kitchen. She can still afford to get as 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:34.040 much formula as she needs. But it's just, UM, it's 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:37.560 that failure to see the other side. I've been asking 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:40.440 everybody this question towards the end of an interview because 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:42.960 I'm just everyone has a slightly different answer that I 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:47.600 think is very interesting. UM, coming from your perspective of um, 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:50.440 where you come into the show and what your connection 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:54.720 to the character is. What do you hope that viewer 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:59.400 takes away from watching this show. I feel like, if 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:02.200 there's thing is about a certain character that upset you, 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:05.440 tease that out, like with a friend, or talk about 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:08.640 it and be able to sort of have those hard 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:13.000 conversations about motherhood or about like if you can afford 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:16.360 to have a child but you don't necessarily want to, 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:21.640 how are you judging that character? Like that is a 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:25.160 very sensitive, hard conversation to have, But I think it's 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:27.560 worth rather than just like watching it and going and 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:29.560 moving on with your life. I think it's meant to 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:33.040 sort of be talked about in a broader sense, and 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:37.000 I think there's so many moments like that throughout the series. Yeah, 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:40.400 I just feel like it raises so many really hard 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:46.280 questions about class and race and intersectionality. Like it's just 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:49.800 like it raises so many questions that I think are 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:54.240 really hard for women to have, especially like black women 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:58.400 and white women. Yeah, I think it's really hard for 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:03.000 us to have conversation stations about our experiences where we 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:06.800 don't get defensive when we're really listening to each other 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:10.040 without bringing guilt into it. You know. It's just just 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:12.800 from the point of view of playing Mia and a 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:16.440 young black woman who comes into this world where she 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:20.040 thinks she's the only one, the only outsider, and she's 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:22.320 struggling to find her play and she has no money, 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:25.760 and there's so much just in this this one character, 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:28.840 and every character has that much going on, which is 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:31.440 so amazing, you know. I mean, I just really hope 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:36.800 that people who don't normally see themselves in a person 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:40.080 of a different race or uh, different sexuality, you can 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:43.600 watch this and go, oh, okay, I can see myself 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:46.800 in this character, and maybe that will open them up 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.400 to reaching out to someone who doesn't look like them 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:52.720 or isn't in the same classes them and opening up 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:56.440 a conversation and having those hard conversations and hopefully doing 0:16:56.480 --> 0:17:00.800 the work to you know, build their community out from that. 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:05.760 That's so you both killed that answer. Yeah, and and 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:08.480 thank you so much for sitting down with me. I 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:12.600 truly cannot compliment both of your performances enough. You were 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:17.920 both so wonderful. So congratulations. Yes, amazing job, and thank 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:19.960 you so much for making the time to sit down 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:26.600 with us. Thanks so much, thank you, thank you, Thank 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:29.040 you so much to Anna, Sophia and Tiffany for talking 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:32.800 with us. And oh my gosh, what performances. It takes 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:36.080 more than masterful performances to sell the fully fleshed out 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:38.879 flashback world we see an episode one of six. It 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:43.600 also takes incredibly detailed production design. So next I decided 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:47.400 to speak again with the Little Fires Everywhere production designer herself, 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:50.520 Jess Kinder, who took on not just making an older 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:53.400 version of Shaker Heights, but of New York City as well. 0:17:53.800 --> 0:18:00.359 Through some of our conversation. I'm Jess Kinder, the production 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:04.639 designer of Little Fires Everywhere. Hey, Jes, how are you good? Okay? 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.399 I am so excited to be talking with you again. 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:10.119 I mean, there's so much to discuss. I mean, I 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:13.080 have a lot of questions about the production design process. 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:16.000 You're not just creating a period piece. You're creating a 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:20.840 period piece twice because you have nineties Shaker and you 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:25.800 have eighties Shaker. So I guess to to backtrack a little, 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:30.719 what was your research process for building out this world? 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:33.840 I felt like the script was very, very clear on 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:36.960 who the characters were, and so it was just as 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:38.560 soon as I read it, I could see in my 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:40.480 head what things should be, and it was a matter 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:42.639 of just finding a way to present to the group 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:45.320 like this is what I see. And so I ended 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:49.200 up for Elena what I really felt like because my 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:51.920 my dad was raised in Cleveland, we would go every year. Um. 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:56.480 He actually had a paper out and Shaker heights, um. 0:18:56.560 --> 0:19:01.240 And so in my mind, the sort of level of 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:04.359 affluence that we were trying to go for is this 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:07.680 group of people who, while they're in the Midwest, they 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:10.960 emulate almost more of sort of the New England vibe. 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:13.520 So I pulled a lot of like Ralph Lauren and 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:16.200 Laura Ashley and those type of vibes, and I tried 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:19.159 to think back to when I was graduating college in 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:22.840 n and like what was popular then, And so I 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:25.320 started looking at like the Ethan Allen's because it's sort 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:28.840 of this level of they don't have quite the level 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:31.879 of money to go outside of the normal box you 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:35.159 would look within, but they have enough money to go 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:38.880 to the higher end places. Um. And when I started 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:42.119 pulling those, I was actually pulling reference of interiors of 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:46.239 actual Shaker Heights houses on like the MLS. And one 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:47.840 of the times where I was like I am on 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:51.919 the right track as I pulled a photo of a 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:55.280 dining room from Shaker Heights that had the exact same 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:58.919 dining set as the Ethan Allen ad I had pulled 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:01.240 to pair with it. Oh, So it was like You're like, oh, 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:03.440 it's it's totally spot on that this is what they're 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:06.840 emulating exactly. Is a very like I don't know even 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:09.959 and I feel like it reads so well in the 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:12.800 sets that you designed of just like a very like 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:16.879 Clinton era upper crust wealth look. Yeah. So I guess 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:19.360 this is still this applies to the nineties and the eighties. 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:24.280 But you shot the show in California, So how did 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:28.560 you how how does that work? Cutting because it's you 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:33.120 would never know. I mean you literally brought Ohio to California. 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:35.760 Where do you start, Well, you start with a great 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:40.840 location manager. So we have Baroni Vowel, who's fantastic UM 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:44.800 and she's been doing it for decades, and so if 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:47.840 you say we need to do east coast, Midwest here, 0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:50.119 she knows where to go. I've been lucky that I 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:53.720 have also been working only in l A because I 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:56.320 had two kids and decided I wasn't going to travel, 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:58.560 and so I've been on a few shows that have 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:01.000 done that, so you already know the basic pockets that 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:03.920 can pass. And then we needed to sort of fine 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:07.600 tune it down to Shaker Heights, UM. And so we 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:11.840 actually scouted Ohio. Uh, so we didn't even have to 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:14.480 just go off of pictures and honestly, I've been going 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:18.120 there since I was born, UM, and so we knew 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:21.360 already what type of house we were looking for Elena, 0:21:21.520 --> 0:21:23.560 and we knew general area where it might be, and 0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:27.080 so we just scouted around until we found it. Um. 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:29.800 In fact, that started with Jason Kaplan, who was trained 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:32.359 by Vernick. She came on just a little bit later. Yeah, 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:36.000 so he found that um, and then we sort of picked. 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:39.080 It's funny what we ended up with our Shaker Heights 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:44.600 is almost a little more idealistic than the actual Shaker Heights. UM. 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:48.359 It's we picked an area that when you picture in 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:54.120 your mind sort of the most beautiful, warm, friendly downtown, 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:56.000 you know, with the clock, and it would have the 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:58.119 church people, and it would have all those things. We 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:00.800 found that made it into our Shaker Heights where their 0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:03.840 square is. Actually it's not quite that, it's almost one 0:22:03.880 --> 0:22:07.640 step below. But we were sort of creating this ideal 0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:10.560 world that then you find out is getting eaten away 0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:13.400 from the inside right right where you're just like it's 0:22:13.560 --> 0:22:16.720 it's so perfect that it almost comes across a little 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:20.479 sinister sometimes. So we we talked a little bit in 0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:26.240 our last episode about your choices about setting this Shaker 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:29.480 in the nineties. So then when we do the flashback episode, 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:33.119 we also get a glimpse, you know, around the time 0:22:33.359 --> 0:22:36.160 that Elena is pregnant with Izzy, so you just sort 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:39.040 of you know, d aged the place. So what is 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:41.679 that process of we know what this place looks like 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:45.920 in okay, how did it look in four? So what 0:22:46.000 --> 0:22:49.639