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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of this show.

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Speaker 1: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 1: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 1: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 1: dot com. Okay, let's get to the Democrats, all right.

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Speaker 2: So you've got the elected Democrats in the Senate who

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Speaker 2: are trying to figure out where to be. They oppose

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Speaker 2: the warpowers or solution except for Fetterman, and they some

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Speaker 2: of them are open to funding the war for some reason.

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Speaker 2: Then you have the twenty twenty eight contenders and Greasy

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Speaker 2: Gavin in particular, who has really been kind of a

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Speaker 2: mess on the question of Israel and Palestine. And you'll

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Speaker 2: recall when he got asked about APAC funding. He did

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Speaker 2: that whole that's very interesting. That's interesting, that's very interesting

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Speaker 2: that you're aked in this question. Well, he had an

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Speaker 2: interesting response here with the podse of Bros. And now

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Speaker 2: seems to be realizing that his previous positioning on Israel

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Speaker 2: of just lockstep support is going to be anathema to

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Speaker 2: a democratic base now that is fully disgusted with the

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Speaker 2: genocide in Gaza, fully disgusted with our complicity, and really

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Speaker 2: looking for politicians to be very clear on what they

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Speaker 2: think about this whole situation. So take a listen to

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Speaker 2: what Gavin Newsom now has to say about the state

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Speaker 2: of Israel.

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Speaker 3: And a lot of Democrats have looked at the net

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Speaker 3: and Yahoo regime and felt like, you know what, we

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Speaker 3: don't like the trajectory he's on. It's time to rethink

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Speaker 3: the US relationship with Israel, especially military support, where.

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Speaker 4: He's taking that easy right now, let's talk about that.

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Speaker 4: But the issue of BB's interesting because he's got his

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Speaker 4: own domestic issues. He's trying to stay out of jail,

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Speaker 4: he's got an election coming up, he's potentially on the ropes.

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Speaker 4: He's got folks the hard line that want to annex

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Speaker 4: the West or West Bank. I mean Freeman and others

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Speaker 4: are talking about it appropriately sort of an apartheid state.

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Speaker 4: They couldn't even I mean, we're talking about regime change

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Speaker 4: for two years. They haven't even able to solve the

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Speaker 4: Hamas question in Israel. So this is I mean, you know,

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Speaker 4: I want to be careful here, but you know, in

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Speaker 4: so many ways that influence in the context of the

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Speaker 4: conversation where Trump ultimately landed on this is pretty damned

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Speaker 4: self evident. And so Rubio may have been saying something

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Speaker 4: else in the context of what he ultimately said in

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Speaker 4: terms of being sort of pulled into some of these things,

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Speaker 4: but I will say this didn't surprise me in this context.

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Speaker 3: Do you think looking down the road that the United

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Speaker 3: States would consider maybe, you know, rethinking our military support

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Speaker 3: for Israel.

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Speaker 4: It breaks my heart because the current leadership in Israel

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Speaker 4: is walking us down that path where I don't think

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Speaker 4: you have a choice, but that consideration. I mean to say,

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Speaker 4: this is an America's interest at a time when affordabilities

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Speaker 4: at crisis levels, where you ha an administration you literally

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Speaker 4: got elected saying this is exactly the opposite of what

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Speaker 4: they would ever consider doing. The fact that that we

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Speaker 4: are in this now regional war, all these proxies, the

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Speaker 4: fact that we you know, and all the grift and

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Speaker 4: the corruption. It's also marks a huge part of this

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Speaker 4: and that's a real conversation. We need to have this

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Speaker 4: board a peace and the piece that the Witcoff family's getting,

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Speaker 4: and the peace that Kushner is getting and the peace

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Speaker 4: that Trump.

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Speaker 1: Junior is getting.

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Speaker 2: So two very noteworthy things there. Him calling Israel an

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Speaker 2: apartheid state, or at least saying that it's appropriate to

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Speaker 2: call an apartheid state is number one. And number two

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Speaker 2: floating the idea of like, yeah, we may need to

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Speaker 2: condition military aid.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 2: Of course you listen to this statement, it's still mealy

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Speaker 2: mouthed and still oh it's all Nott Yahoo's fault. When

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Speaker 2: you look at the polling and like the public, if

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Speaker 2: anything is even further to the right, then they're all behind,

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Speaker 2: as you know, and the faction that's running the government

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Speaker 2: is in step with most of.

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Speaker 5: The public, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: So he takes the liberal position there of like, oh,

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Speaker 2: it's just this government that's the problem. But for Gavin

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Speaker 2: Newsom to say those two things five years ago, I

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Speaker 2: was absolutely it will never happen, and it just shows

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Speaker 2: you how much the country has moved at specifically how

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Speaker 2: much the base has moved, and how important this is

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Speaker 2: to people. He no longer thinks he can get away

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Speaker 2: with it, and we've been seeing him in real time

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Speaker 2: trying to land in a certain spot, and we continue

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Speaker 2: to see him trying to figure out where to land

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Speaker 2: because now we have his aids sort of walking all

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Speaker 2: of this back.

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Speaker 5: Zegil.

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Speaker 2: Our friends at Delani highlighted these comments. Let's put this

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Speaker 2: up on the screen. As to clarify Newsom's comments, is

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Speaker 2: He Garden, a spokesman for mister Newsom, said, the government

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Speaker 2: governor quote believes in Israel's right to exist and it's

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Speaker 2: right to defend itself period. He added, the government governor

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Speaker 2: is calling out a difficult truth, blaming mister Trump and

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Speaker 2: net Yahoo for taking Israel down a course that threatens

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Speaker 2: the safety of Israel, a democracy in America's closest Middle

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Speaker 2: East ally, as well as Israelis and American Jews. So

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Speaker 2: the concern here is being framed in terms of, oh,

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Speaker 2: my goodness, what they're doing is actually very risky for

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Speaker 2: Israel itself, and you know, reiterating his commitment that Israel

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Speaker 2: has right to defend itself and right to exist.

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Speaker 5: Et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm clearly he's still trying to figure this

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Speaker 2: one out side.

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Speaker 1: It's a little mealy mouthed, etc. But I mean, if

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Speaker 1: you look at the core of it, look maybe just me,

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Speaker 1: the result is the only thing that matters. It's not

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Speaker 1: just about the rhetoric which he's opening the Overton window,

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Speaker 1: which says it's appropriate, you can call it apartheid, and

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Speaker 1: two military aid is really the only thing that matters,

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Speaker 1: because you could see a future centrist democrat, let's say,

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Speaker 1: like some centri stem gets elected, They're going to say,

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Speaker 1: I'm doing what's best for Israel. Israel's out of control.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to restrain them. I'm going to force them

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Speaker 1: to look out for their own people and not allow

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Speaker 1: them to drag us or themselves into some major war,

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to go into enable their behavior. That's

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Speaker 1: actually the way that the Bush administration and others would

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Speaker 1: talk to them whenever they would get upset and some

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Speaker 1: squabble about the West Bank. So I could easily see

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Speaker 1: them reverting to a more realist, slash like normal relationship

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Speaker 1: with Israel, saying Israel has a right to exist as

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Speaker 1: like the easiest box check in the world. And we

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Speaker 1: talked about this, it's like there's no right or whatever.

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Speaker 1: It's like they exist, Okay, deal with it. So it's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, getting into oh, right to exist is it's

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Speaker 1: like a pedantic, ridiculous conversation the Zionists want to trap

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Speaker 1: you into. It's like, that's not the way that you

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Speaker 1: want to talk about it. The way that you should

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Speaker 1: talk about it is Okay, it exists. Now what how

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Speaker 1: do we deal with that reality? So I could very

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Speaker 1: easily see him calibrating to something like that, but nonetheless,

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Speaker 1: the most important thing is shattering. I would say it

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Speaker 1: is very similar to what happened to the Republican primary

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Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen. Prior to twenty sixteen, nobody could say

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Speaker 1: that the Iraq War was a disaster. You couldn't say it.

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Speaker 1: There was nobody who was willing to say. Trump came in,

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Speaker 1: he was like, no, it's a disaster, and that opened

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Speaker 1: the floodgates for all of these new politicians and others

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Speaker 1: to say what everybody privately thought but which the donor

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Speaker 1: class didn't want you to say. And the Bush mafia

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Speaker 1: they could say no, actually, it was a total disaster.

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Speaker 1: Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, Jeb Bush, all these guys were

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Speaker 1: defending it. So you can think of Zoron Mamdani and

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Speaker 1: a few of these other guys as the vanguard who

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Speaker 1: were willing to just say the quiet part out loud,

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Speaker 1: achieve extraordinary political success and opened the door. In addition

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Speaker 1: to global events, so that John Favreaus of the world

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Speaker 1: poseve Americas and others. It's a permission structure for everybody

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Speaker 1: for Gavin Newsom to say it in polite company without

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Speaker 1: seeing them hinge and that they're not going to face

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Speaker 1: a political price at least, but they will face a

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Speaker 1: donor price and they're going to have to grapple with That's.

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Speaker 5: Well, you know what's interesting about that.

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Speaker 2: I was saying about that because this week Ryan and

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Speaker 2: Emily covered you had this primary Democratic primary between Valerie

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Speaker 2: Fushi and Nida Alum and Fushi last this was a

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Speaker 2: rematch between these two. Previously, Fushi had been major APAC recipient,

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Speaker 2: Lockstep Israel supporter. She calculated that this was going to

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Speaker 2: be a problem for her in the primary because she

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Speaker 2: knew Nida was there. It almost beat her the last

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Speaker 2: time around, and.

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Speaker 5: So what did she do? She changed her position.

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Speaker 2: She decided she was a little critical of Israel. She

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Speaker 2: signed onto the Block the Bombs Act, and she said

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Speaker 2: she wasn't going to take any a PAC funding. Now

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Speaker 2: they managed to funnel a PAC aligned money into her

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Speaker 2: race via a Hakeem Jeffries connected super pack. So she

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Speaker 2: still did benefit from that money, but it was enough

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Speaker 2: that she was able to hold on. And I think

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Speaker 2: if she doesn't make those two moves, there's no way

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Speaker 2: because it ended up being a close race. It's actually

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Speaker 2: going to recount. But you know, she's up by about

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Speaker 2: one thousand votes, very close race.

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Speaker 5: If she hadn't.

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Speaker 2: Shifted her position like that, I think there's no way

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Speaker 2: that she manages to hold on. But the other thing

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Speaker 2: that's interesting about that Sager is even though she backed

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Speaker 2: the Block the Bombs Act, even though she said, hey,

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Speaker 2: no APAC funding, even though she came out and was

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Speaker 2: somewhat critical of Israel and opened up the possibility of

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Speaker 2: conditioning aid et cetera, APAX still funneled her money.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 2: Previously, their line has been you you even hint, we

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Speaker 2: even get a whiff of you may say anything critical

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Speaker 2: about Israel. We are not only going to not support you,

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Speaker 2: we're going to spend against you. We're going to do

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Speaker 2: everything we can to defeat. Now they seem to have

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Speaker 2: realized that is no longer a tenable position within the

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Speaker 2: Democratic Party, and so that actually that creates more operating

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Speaker 2: space for a Gavin Newsom. Yeah, I mean, this man

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Speaker 2: is just a cynical weather van, right, Like that's how

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Speaker 2: you should look at hey, his finger in the wind.

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Speaker 2: There's no principle here. It's just him trying to read

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Speaker 2: the tea leaves and being a relatively skilled operator relatively

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Speaker 2: of trying to figure out where he needs to be

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Speaker 2: politically balancing the concerns of the base versus the donor class.

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Speaker 2: And so I think that's part of what's going on

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Speaker 2: here too. Is Apak has had to back down and

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Speaker 2: the Israel lobby more broadly has had to back down

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Speaker 2: from this absoluteistposition because they recognize they have lost the

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Speaker 2: ability to enforce to hold that line with the Democratic Party.

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Speaker 2: So I think that is partly what's going on here

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Speaker 2: as well, especially with regard to to Gavin Newsom. But

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Speaker 2: the other problem here, let's put D five up on

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Speaker 2: the screen. So this representative Landsman. You know, honestly, he

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Speaker 2: hadn't really come across my radar before. Suddenly this guy

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Speaker 2: has emerged as like, you know, he's joining in with

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Speaker 2: Moskowitz and with Gotttheimer on this alternative warpowers the RESIL

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Speaker 2: meant to basically undercut, you know, the actual war powers

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Speaker 2: resolution that Rocanna and Thomas Massey have offered. And so

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Speaker 2: he decided for some reason to do this interview with

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Speaker 2: Isaac Chottner, and it did not go very well for him.

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Speaker 2: So Lansman says, let me be clear, I've never trusted

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Speaker 2: Trump on this meaning war, or on the economy, or

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Speaker 2: on keeping us safe in general. And Chatner says, but

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Speaker 2: you're trusting him on this though, right, And Lansman says, no, Chatner,

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Speaker 2: you aren't. I'm trusting the military and our generals. I'm

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Speaker 2: trusting what I understand to be the operation and the

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Speaker 2: people leading it. That is the generals and our military

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Speaker 2: and our allies. By the way, the generals and the

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Speaker 2: military didn't want to do this. By the way, Chattner,

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Speaker 2: you're trusting the people leading the operation who don't include

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Speaker 2: the President.

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Speaker 5: Well, I don't trust that guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's the commander in chief, right, sure, yeah, but

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Speaker 2: I can't trust him, and he's proven that over the

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Speaker 2: past couple of days being all over the place, unlike

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Speaker 2: everybody else involved in this. So you can see here

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Speaker 2: with him another problem for Democrats who want to, you know,

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Speaker 2: at least tacitly support this war, vote for the funding,

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Speaker 2: or vote against the War Powers Resolution or whatever. It's

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Speaker 2: basically you know, because hey, look, Trump is the commander

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Speaker 2: in chief, so de facto, if you are going along

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Speaker 2: with any aspect of this, you are trusting him. You

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Speaker 2: are throwing in with Trump and saying, yes, I trust

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Speaker 2: that he's going to execute this in a way that's

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Speaker 2: going to be responsible and reasonable and with like appropriate

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Speaker 2: goals in mind. Blah blah blah. That is what you're

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Speaker 2: signing up for. And that is going to be another

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Speaker 2: massive issue for any Democratic politician who goes along with

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Speaker 2: any aspect of this that I do not think that they.

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Speaker 5: Fully thought through.

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Speaker 2: But Isaac Shottner, as he does, you know, really sort

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Speaker 2: of brings in.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know why people agreed. I would never

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Speaker 1: even agree to do any interview with him about anything,

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Speaker 1: considering what considering how he's behaved. But like these people

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Speaker 1: all their level of hubris and being out of touch

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Speaker 1: demonstrates their ideological commitment. I think to this project, and

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Speaker 1: I think that's what we should underscore to everybody, is

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Speaker 1: the level of what the bipartisan elite structure looks like

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Speaker 1: in Washington. And even with Gavin Newsom, I mean, as

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Speaker 1: you said, he doesn't believe anything, literally nothing. Yeah, in

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Speaker 1: the beginning he was pro Israel with Ben Shapiro. Don't

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Speaker 1: we have a clip? Actually, yeah we do.

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Speaker 5: We've got D three guys.

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Speaker 2: So this was Newso this is not in the beginning,

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Speaker 2: this was just a few weeks ago. Newsome with Shapiro

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Speaker 2: and Shapiro obviously is very ideological and very forceful, and

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Speaker 2: Newsome just sort of like you know, capitulates to his

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Speaker 2: view specifically on whether or not this is genocide.

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Speaker 5: This is D three.

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Speaker 1: Let's play that this conversation.

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Speaker 6: Some drags, some run with you know, flags waving into

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Speaker 6: the conversation of genocide.

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Speaker 7: Yes, yeah, I mean, look at.

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Speaker 6: Israel did not commit a genocide in Gaza. There's no

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Speaker 6: standard by which is Reel committed a genocide in Gaza.

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Speaker 6: Just then a factual level, illegal and factual level, Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 6: what is your opinion of this.

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Speaker 7: My opinion is I understand the tendency for people to

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Speaker 7: make that to assert that why on the basis of

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Speaker 7: the images and the proportionality genocide?

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Speaker 8: No.

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Speaker 7: No, And by the way, I agree with you, and international.

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Speaker 6: Doesn't mean that if you kill my child and I

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Speaker 6: then kill seven criminals, that I've been disproportionate.

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Speaker 7: I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think the But

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Speaker 7: I understand that tendency on the basis of trying to

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Speaker 7: reconcile the proportionate nature of how the war was ultimately

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Speaker 7: conduct to him.

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Speaker 6: Question, why do you why do you feel the need

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Speaker 6: to create a permission structure for that sort of stuff?

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Speaker 1: I mean, meaning it's not true? Why not you say

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Speaker 1: it's not true?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, Look, I don't know the definition or I don't

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Speaker 7: know the legal threshold. That's not my opinion, So I

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Speaker 7: don't I don't share the opinion this relates to genocide not.

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Speaker 7: I do not agree with that.

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Speaker 2: So like they's got a dog walk, it's embarrassing. I mean,

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Speaker 2: this is not going to cut it right. It's not

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Speaker 2: going to cut it.

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Speaker 1: And so I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I mean, sometimes I see Gavin like that moment with

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Speaker 2: Podse where I'm like, oh, he's kind of figuring out

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Speaker 2: where he needs to be. But then even in that moment,

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Speaker 2: like if they had pressed him.

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Speaker 5: Further, he would got nothing. Yeah, because he's this is you.

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Speaker 2: Know, he's a very he has a more skilled Kamala Harris.

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Speaker 2: Basically he's a slicker Kamala Harris. And at the end

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Speaker 2: of the day, he doesn't believe anything. And that comes

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Speaker 2: through right if you if you press him, if he's

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Speaker 2: caught between what the donors want and what the base.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's really the thing in any issue, when

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Speaker 2: he's caught between what the donors want and what the

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Speaker 2: base wants, that's where greasy Gavin comes out. And there's

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Speaker 2: no square in the circle. You know, on the billionaire

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Speaker 2: tacks thing he's fighting against that in California, that's going

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Speaker 2: to be in public. Well it's documented. Yeah, So I

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Speaker 2: mean that's that's going to be a problem for him.

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Speaker 2: But then he says, oh, I will like theoretically support

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Speaker 2: some other wealth at tax, there's not this one in particular.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know, we'll see if he's able to

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Speaker 2: navigate all this.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't have a lot of at

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Speaker 1: the same time, I could see it both ways. I

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Speaker 1: could see him winning in a landslide, like in a

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Speaker 1: primary where you have bunch of challengers. Remember twenty how

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Speaker 1: many challenges were they're in twenty sixteen, seventeen, something like that.

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Speaker 1: It was fun. He was like seventeen Republican challengers. So

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Speaker 1: each slice of the vote gets cut. Gavin is the centrist,

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Speaker 1: He's got the money, governor of a large state. He

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Speaker 1: wins easily.

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Speaker 5: I could see that people love.

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Speaker 1: The Trump resistance. By the way, you know one thing

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Speaker 1: from Texas because we haven't had a ton of time

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Speaker 1: to talk about this, did you notice the breakdown in

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Speaker 1: the vote with tall Rico and Crockett. So tall Ico

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Speaker 1: wins all the upper middle class white liberals and the latinos,

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Speaker 1: but she heavily bone and young people. But she who

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Speaker 1: does she win the black vote? Like very much with

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Speaker 1: the black vote. So if you have older black people

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Speaker 1: in South Carolina, if that goes first, let's say, who

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Speaker 1: knows what the calendar is going to look like. I'm

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Speaker 1: bullish on Gavin because they'll get the momentum from there.

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Speaker 1: You won't be able to like spin off a win

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Speaker 1: like in Iowa or New Hampshire, which is very different demographic,

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Speaker 1: or Michigan, any sort of battleground state. I could easily

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Speaker 1: see those type of voters going for somebody more like

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Speaker 1: Aven Newsom Whereat and that's where you know, whoever goes

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Speaker 1: first matters a ton. And then the timing of let's

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Speaker 1: say like Super Tuesday, same thing where we've got more

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Speaker 1: older black voters and some of these southern states which

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Speaker 1: are all going to vote immediately, that's very bullish, I

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Speaker 1: think for somebody like Gavin Newsom, so I think the

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Speaker 1: taller Eco primary is actually evidence still that there's still

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Speaker 1: big splits within the traditional kind of Democrat. You know,

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Speaker 1: the traditional base of a Texas Democrat was like Houston

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Speaker 1: black people, and now or Dallas like suburban or urban,

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Speaker 1: and now the transformation of the state and a lot

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Speaker 1: of the people who voted demonstrates, I think like a

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Speaker 1: preview of what the new primary system will look like.

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Speaker 1: And that's why you know the DNC is going to

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Speaker 1: try to rig the hell out of that primary system

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Speaker 1: like you have never seen before, So be on the

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Speaker 1: lookout for that.

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Speaker 5: I go back and forth with Gah. I can see that,

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Speaker 5: I can see that.

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Speaker 2: I can also see it being like a Dasanta situation

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Speaker 2: that's like, oh my god, he's going to gote now. Granted,

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Speaker 2: you and I never bought the Disands site. We did

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Speaker 2: not buy the Disands. We took a lot incoming from people,

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Speaker 2: including my own husband, who thought there was something there there.

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Speaker 5: But you know, at the end of the day, people

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Speaker 5: were like, no, this is not remotely what we want.

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Speaker 2: I could see that too with Gavin, Like I think

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Speaker 2: Gavin is more skilled and charismatic than to Sanders, but

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Speaker 2: I could see it, so, yeah, we'll see, We'll see

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Speaker 2: how he's able to.

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Speaker 1: Date these waters. I could see the other side, right,

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Speaker 1: I could see it being, you know, some sort of

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Carter situation where the country wants somebody who believes

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Speaker 1: something's totally opposite more of the current political moment, a

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Speaker 1: really earnest politician, like the opposite of Obama. So I

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Speaker 1: have I honestly have no clue. I could see, you know,

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Speaker 1: we could be dominated by complete AI slop by that

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Speaker 1: point too, so we could be screwed.

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Speaker 9: I mean.

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Speaker 2: The other lesson from the Texas primary is that, you know,

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Speaker 2: Jasmine Crockett with her Trump like Trump resistance as being

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Speaker 2: the core of her brand. It didn't sell outside of

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Speaker 2: like she won black people overwhelmingly and that was that

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Speaker 2: was it. The rest of the coalition was all Telerigo

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Speaker 2: and so like most of the Democratic base is looking

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Speaker 2: for more. So I don't know, we'll see, we'll see

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Speaker 2: how it all pans out.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's get to hypocrisy turning now, Hey, hypocrisy

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Speaker 1: a something very near and dear to my heart these days,

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Speaker 1: looking back a little bit on what did all these

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Speaker 1: people say who are currently in power about war with

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Speaker 1: Iran whenever they had a chance to make their pitch

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Speaker 1: to the American people. So we've super cut a few

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Speaker 1: of the people who are currently in power and some

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Speaker 1: of the things that they said in the past compared

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Speaker 1: to what you see on your screens today. So without

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Speaker 1: much more, let's take a listen.

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Speaker 10: And I also know the cost on the American people.

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Speaker 10: You know, the trillions of dollars that we've spent since

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Speaker 10: nine to eleven alone on waging these wasteful regime change wars,

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Speaker 10: how those wars have undermined our national security, and how

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Speaker 10: they have strengthened terrorist groups like ISIS and al Qaida.

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Speaker 10: So when we talk about a potential war with Iran,

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Speaker 10: which is looking like we are walking very dangerously down

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Speaker 10: that path. What I think is important for the American

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Speaker 10: people to know is that a war with Iran would

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Speaker 10: make the war a rock look like a cakewalk. The

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Speaker 10: devastation and the cost would be far greater than anything

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Speaker 10: we've ever experienced before.

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Speaker 9: Our interest, I think very much is in not going

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Speaker 9: to war with Iran.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 9: It would be huge distraction of resources, It would be

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Speaker 9: massively expensive to our country. And again I'm not saying

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Speaker 9: we stick ourselves into the Middle East and start a

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Speaker 9: war here, but like we recognize, okay, Israeli's golf are

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Speaker 9: of states don't like Iran. So let the Israelis and

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Speaker 9: the golf Arab states provide the counterbalance to Iran. America

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Speaker 9: doesn't have to constantly police every region of the world.

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Speaker 9: We should empower people to police their own regions of

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Speaker 9: the world.

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Speaker 1: Right and one.

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Speaker 9: We would save a lot of money too, We'd save

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Speaker 9: a lot of focus. But unfortunately, I think Harris she's

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Speaker 9: got this weird thing where I actually think she kind

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Speaker 9: of likes war. Maybe she feels like she feels like

437
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,119
Speaker 9: a tough guy about it. I don't know. Why it is,

438
00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:54,679
Speaker 9: and they seem to be sort of sleep walking us

439
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,399
Speaker 9: into war with Iran. It's like the dumbest of all

440
00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:58,120
Speaker 9: possible worlds.

441
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,359
Speaker 11: I've been a recovery neo kan for six years now.

442
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:06,800
Speaker 11: Like the foolishness with which we ricochet around the world

443
00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,400
Speaker 11: intervening think it was in our best interests when really

444
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,359
Speaker 11: we just overturned the table and created something worse in

445
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:16,840
Speaker 11: almost every single scenario has led to almost I mean,

446
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,480
Speaker 11: the hubrius of the Pentagon is that they want to

447
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,800
Speaker 11: now tell other countries how to do counterincurtaincy based on

448
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:24,280
Speaker 11: what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan.

449
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,520
Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? So you really have learned nothing?

450
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:31,679
Speaker 1: Okay nothing? So, yeah, you're right.

451
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:33,879
Speaker 11: That trust, the trust there that our political leaders or

452
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:35,560
Speaker 11: our generals would have our best interests in mine is

453
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:36,120
Speaker 11: totally broken.

454
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:37,040
Speaker 1: It's totally broken.

455
00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:39,280
Speaker 11: I will tell you you're not going to have a

456
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:40,840
Speaker 11: war with me, and you're not going to have a

457
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:41,680
Speaker 11: Third World.

458
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 12: War with me.

459
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:42,920
Speaker 10: That I can tell you.

460
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:45,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna turn it into the joker.

461
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:47,240
Speaker 5: It peets off the wagon again.

462
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:52,040
Speaker 1: Neo Conrie Lap he's out of recovery. He needs to

463
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,280
Speaker 1: start back into the twelve. He needs to make amends first, right,

464
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:56,720
Speaker 1: is in that part of the twelve steps. There's a

465
00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 1: lot of amends that are currently to make. But I

466
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:03,240
Speaker 1: think the most potent I mean Tulsi Donald Trump obviously,

467
00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,240
Speaker 1: I mean he's look Trump. Actually, I would not defend.

468
00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:08,760
Speaker 1: He said various different things to many people at all time.

469
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:13,159
Speaker 1: But JD. Pete Jad and Tulsi to the most extent

470
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,120
Speaker 1: are the ones who are like, yeah, you're full of shit.

471
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,800
Speaker 1: And that is the one which honestly is so galling

472
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,240
Speaker 1: because okay, I can say this in Tulsi's case, how

473
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,159
Speaker 1: many times we interviewed this woman, I mean a lot, right,

474
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,200
Speaker 1: sat across from the desk, looked in the eyes. What

475
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,840
Speaker 1: did she always talk about being in Iraqi? Medic in Iraq? Right,

476
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 1: she talked about brothers and sis. I believed it. It

477
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,200
Speaker 1: was maybe I'm super naive. I believed it when I

478
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:37,680
Speaker 1: looked her in the eyes and she would talk about that.

479
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 1: I actually, I mean she took a lot of shit.

480
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:41,680
Speaker 1: She went to Syria to meet with us OD. It

481
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,200
Speaker 1: was like, you know, basically got forced out of Congress

482
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,720
Speaker 1: at the whole donor machine. Hillary called her a trader,

483
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:51,200
Speaker 1: like she suffered politically, and so to go from that,

484
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 1: and then, by the way, can we put e two

485
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,920
Speaker 1: up on the screen here where she literally was selling

486
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,640
Speaker 1: t shirts saying no war with Iron. You know, when

487
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,639
Speaker 1: we first started rising, I'll go around the country, I

488
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 1: would meet a lot of Tulsi people, right, she spoke

489
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 1: to a lot of folks. Whenever it came to the

490
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 1: no war, anti war position, she went on a rogan

491
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 1: the no war with Iran teachhert like, this was a

492
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:12,719
Speaker 1: real constituency and I remember meeting a lot of these

493
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:14,720
Speaker 1: people across the country. So then now to have her

494
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 1: as the director of National Intelligence in the situation room

495
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 1: while the war with Iran launches, it's unbelievable. Then let's

496
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 1: take the Vice president. I mean, did you hear what

497
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,000
Speaker 1: he said there about it would not be in our interest?

498
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 1: I think he believed, I mean I used to think

499
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,879
Speaker 1: he believed that. Who the hell knows now, But secondary

500
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,960
Speaker 1: was that whole thing about Kamala who likes That's literally

501
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,119
Speaker 1: how Donald Trump and Pete Hexsteth they're acting right now.

502
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 1: Pete Hexseth is literally acting like a movie character. Whenever

503
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 1: he's like we are winning and will screw you media

504
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 1: for reporting on the deaths of American soldiers. Donald Trump

505
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 1: is like Iran is two weeks away from a nuclear weapon.

506
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 1: Clearly he loves the theater of limited military operations, which

507
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 1: are now spiraling out of control. It's like, oh my god.

508
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,119
Speaker 1: I mean, look again, you know, you could say I

509
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 1: told you so, and that's fair certainly at this point.

510
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,479
Speaker 1: But I don't know. I mean, we're just never supposed

511
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: to believe any politician like they really they. I can

512
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,120
Speaker 1: tell you this in Tulsea's case, in JD's case, much

513
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 1: more limited extent. On Pete, I had been told by

514
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 1: multiple people that he actually was scarred by his experiences

515
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 1: in Iraq, in Afghanistan and and rethought a lot of

516
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 1: stuff on Ukraine. I said, Okay, I believe you don't

517
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 1: believe it anymore. But in a lot of these cases,

518
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 1: and it's not just the public officials names that you

519
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,479
Speaker 1: would know. I'm talking about deputies and other people all

520
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,160
Speaker 1: over the National Security Council. I've met these people for years.

521
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:28,640
Speaker 10: I knew.

522
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,680
Speaker 1: I mean, we were at conferences and other things were no.

523
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 1: Iran war was like anathema. That was like the one

524
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 1: thing where like, we're not doing this and so then

525
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,439
Speaker 1: to not only see them in power, but working behind

526
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 1: the scenes to execute this. You're like, what the fuck

527
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 1: I mean is this so it was just all a joke,

528
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,880
Speaker 1: the whole thing was a joke, or it's just a cult.

529
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 1: Trump is in charge, and uh yeah, I mean look,

530
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of egg on a lot

531
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: of face, mine included. I gotta tell you, it has

532
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 1: been one of the most serially radicalized things that has

533
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: ever happened to me, because I've read many times in

534
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: books about politicians being liars and narcissists.

535
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 10: And all this.

536
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 1: Okay, uh and so what you what do you do?

537
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 2: You have it?

538
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 1: I mean, I've lived here for a long time. I

539
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 1: had an appropriate level of skepticism. A lot of the

540
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: people were working in this White House who said that

541
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 1: they were against war with Iran took immense, immense, like

542
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 1: professional hits for being against a lot of the so

543
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 1: called neo con consensus. So what do you conclude by that?

544
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,360
Speaker 1: You're like, Okay, you have a track record, you must

545
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 1: believe it. And then they come into power and it's

546
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: the opposite. It's it's so crazy. I'll tell you that.

547
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,640
Speaker 1: You know, on a personal level, and on a policy level.

548
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: I mean, god, it's it's it's shocking. Like I never, ever, ever, ever,

549
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: ever thought I would be sitting here watching this and

550
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 1: watching these people defend it.

551
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I this is not to do and

552
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 5: I told you so. No, it's not the point the point,

553
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 5: but it's fair.

554
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 1: I deserve it. We you know, I'm being serious. We

555
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: deserve it. We deserve egg on our face. If we

556
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: sat on the camera and we said we don't think

557
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,679
Speaker 1: this is going to happen, and it happens, we got

558
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 1: to eat shit. That's that's how the world works. That

559
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 1: I'm sorry and for all the people who want to

560
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 1: move past it, we can't move past it. We have

561
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,400
Speaker 1: to sit. We have to grapple with reality. The people

562
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 1: we defended and the people we thought we're going to

563
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 1: come into power. Who are we're going to do something?

564
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: Did not do it? Okay, period, end of story. And

565
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: that is genuinely the greatest professional disappointment.

566
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 3: Of my entire life.

567
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 2: I think the reason the reason why I didn't buy

568
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 2: into the peace candidate and all that stuff is because

569
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 2: I know Trump is a liar.

570
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 5: Many politicians are. Trump just take it to an extreme degree.

571
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,400
Speaker 2: Let's say but I looked at the track record from

572
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 2: the first term, where they were very hawkish towards Iran.

573
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,880
Speaker 2: You had the maximum he pulls out of the Iranian

574
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 2: nuclear deal. You have the maximum pressure campaign. You have

575
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 2: the assassination of Costum Soul of money, which in and

576
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 2: of itself risked a war with Iran. And so that

577
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 2: was the track record I looked at. And then the

578
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 2: other piece that I looked at is who he was

579
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 2: getting money from, right and since Mary Maddison was such

580
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 2: a one of the largest donors hundred million dollar into

581
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 2: his campaign. You know, the combination of the track record

582
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 2: and the money and the fact that you know, I mean, listen,

583
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 2: I don't have a personal relationship with jade Van, so

584
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 2: I just see him as a cynical political operator. All

585
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 2: of these TULSI had already changed your stripes on any

586
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,640
Speaker 2: number of things. So I didn't take her seriously either.

587
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 2: R of k Junior and kidding me what a joke

588
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 2: like obviously he shape shifted a million times.

589
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 5: And so the reason I'm saying.

590
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 2: This is just for the future for all of us

591
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 2: as we evaluate, Okay, candidates that we like and what

592
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 2: they're saying versus what they're likely to do. The things

593
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 2: to look at are what's the track record and where

594
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 2: does the money come from?

595
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 5: Because at the end of the day, those are going

596
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 5: to be the things.

597
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 2: And then you layer the epstudent files on top of

598
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,360
Speaker 2: That's another factor that I don't think I fully processed,

599
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 2: you know how oh that would be in terms of

600
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 2: apparently getting us to this place. So that was, you know,

601
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 2: that was how I was ultimately looking at it going in.

602
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 2: But I have tons of empathy for people, especially like

603
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 2: regular people who don't follow this stuff day in and

604
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 2: day out, who were watching the Iden Harris ticket committed

605
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 2: genocide in Gaza, Liz Cheney Kamala Kama's campaign with Liz Cheney,

606
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 2: she you know, went out of her way to do

607
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 2: her whole like you know, most lethal military ever and

608
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 2: I you know, went after transnational gangs or whatever, like

609
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 2: she tried to do the whole like I'm hawkish too, posturing,

610
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 2: and you know, you've got all this peace candidate rhetoric

611
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 2: coming from the Trump campaign. It took looking you know,

612
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 2: back at knowing the track record and knowing where the

613
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 2: money was coming from. And Trump, as to your point side, girls,

614
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 2: like he was never consistent about what he was going

615
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 2: to do.

616
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 1: I can explain this, yeah, because this is important. So

617
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 1: when you we just talked about Solimani and all this, yeah,

618
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: here's here was here's the experiment, and this is what

619
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 1: I believed. I always thought Trump was a retard. I'm

620
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: be honest, okay, uh literal retard. But what did what

621
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: I come away from the first Trump administration? The people

622
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 1: around Trump, the staff made the decision right basically, So

623
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: you had John Bolton, Jeff Mattis, Jim Kelly, all the

624
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: sorry John Kelly, all these people. Okay, So the promise

625
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 1: was and this was the project. The project was, We're

626
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 1: going to replace those people so we have better policy.

627
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: And the idea is Trump is basically like this archetype

628
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: who gives shits about the ballroom and not much else,

629
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: and then the staff will run the show. That's what

630
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 1: I thought was gonna happen based on the first term. Okay,

631
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: And so what did I know? I knew the people

632
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: working in the so yeah, money and all that. Look,

633
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 1: I always knew the Israel thing. You can go back

634
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,479
Speaker 1: and check what I said. I literally said, if your

635
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: pro Israel should vote for Trump? And if I was

636
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 1: like if you're pro pales sign you should not vote

637
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 1: for Trump. Go back and look at what I said

638
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 1: October of twenty twenty four. I am we were all

639
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: very clear eyed, but we were believed. We had a

640
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: belief in two things Ukraine and definitely ran. And the

641
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 1: reason why was that the new Cash people, the type

642
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: of people the Vice President included, led a project in

643
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: the United States Senate and behind the scenes for years,

644
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: specifically against Ukraine and Iran. Yes, I was there, I

645
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: remember it, and so there you go. That's where the belief,

646
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: the belief came from. Well, you did this, this, and this.

647
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: You took a lot of hits professionally over the years,

648
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: even picked fights, organized this entire group and staff of

649
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: people who all told us over the years that you

650
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: were going to do something, and then you came into

651
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: office and now you're doing the opposite, right, And look,

652
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: let's be also fair in this regard. Trump is a

653
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: big boy, and maybe he just wanted to do it.

654
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: Maybe these people were against it. I'm not I don't know,

655
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: but at the very least it's not just that you

656
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: couldn't stop it, But then you have these people who

657
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: are out there defending it, and the truth is is

658
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: that not only have we watched how people are so

659
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: untethered from what they previously said in the past, but

660
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 1: that they're willing to literally go and openly humiliate themselves

661
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: on television. So do we have like the Stephen Miller

662
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: I think you were about toss.

663
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 5: That Yeah, yeah, yeah, five. I mean, and this is too.

664
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 2: I think Stephen Miller is actually on an an important character,

665
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 2: we'll just call it in all of this. But I mean,

666
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 2: he was as clear as he could be here. The

667
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 2: first one he's responding to Jan Curie says, I don't

668
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 2: know how I can be more clear. Trump will end

669
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 2: and prevent war in the Middle Least he wants peace.

670
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 2: Harris and her neo con cabinet want war and war war.

671
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 5: Another one. Kamala will send your sons to war. Another one.

672
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 2: If young men don't want to be drafted to fight

673
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 2: in Kamala's and Cheney's Third World War, they better get

674
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 2: out and vote for Trump.

675
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 5: Another one.

676
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 2: Kamala's top military advisor is Liz Cheney. If Kamala wins,

677
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 2: Liz and Dick are running foreign policy and they will

678
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 2: invade the Middle East. Okay, now, I think another thing.

679
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 2: Steven Miller is extremely influential, extremely influential. They call him

680
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister. Internally. We got a glimpse early on

681
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 2: in those Signal conversations when they're debating about the Yemen

682
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 2: strikes and Steven Miller comes in and says, the Boss

683
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 2: wants this, so we're doing it. And it's end of story.

684
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 2: No one says a word or a peepe, There are

685
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 2: no more objections raised.

686
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: That's it.

687
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 5: It's a done deal.

688
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 2: And Stephen Miller is a racist who absolutely hates Muslims,

689
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 2: and I think that is a part of the story

690
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 2: here internally of what's going on. You have not only him,

691
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 2: but you know, we're going to talk with Emily about

692
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 2: Pete Hegsath, who's like wrote a whole book about how

693
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 2: he's itching to do Crusades two point zero because he

694
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 2: wants American Christian warriors to fight against the Muslim hordes.

695
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 2: And so that is an important strain of ideology in

696
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 2: this administration as well.

697
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 5: But there's no doubt that they lied to the American people.

698
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 2: We talked, We did focus groups with the AOC Trump voters,

699
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 2: and I was surprised, you know, I thought Gaza was important,

700
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 2: but I was surprised at how many of them brought

701
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 2: up war and peace and not just Gaza. They genuinely

702
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 2: believed some of the rhetoric coming from Steven Miller. And

703
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 2: you know, I mean it is fair for people who

704
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 2: are looking at this to have some belief. And you've

705
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 2: got all of these figures within Trump world saying absolutely

706
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 2: not no more war with Iran. We got to learn

707
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 2: the mistakes in the past, blah blah blah, to put

708
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 2: some credence in that, even as you know that you

709
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 2: know Trump is a liar and blah blah blah. So

710
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 2: it is a disgusting betrayal. It's not that it was

711
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 2: not predictable. Many people did predict it, saw it coming, etc.

712
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 2: But that is true, and it is also true that

713
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 2: it is an extraordinary betrayal of the American people and

714
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 2: what many people, many people genuinely thought that they were

715
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 2: voting for with this administration exactly.

716
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 1: And look, put E seven up there on the screen.

717
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: They said they were a peace ticket. Now you could say, okay, yeah,

718
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: you shouldn't have believed it. I just gave you the

719
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: whole thought process. I'm not gonna say, oh, the super

720
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: anti war and never believed that I said, Okay, THEO

721
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: are two things which are actually for winnable are Iran

722
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: and Ukraine. Those are the two things. I was like,

723
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: I think we can get that. Based on Trump and

724
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 1: everybody else who was coming into the administration, there were

725
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: some early signs, the Steve Wickcoff stuff. Remember ceasefire with Israel.

726
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 3: That was good.

727
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, okay, and then we start to get

728
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: to where we are. It was pretty obvious by midnight

729
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: Hammer that they were totally in control. And from what

730
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: I've heard Tulsi, I mean, I'll give her a little

731
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: bit of credit. She spoke up against a twelve day war.

732
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: From what I know, guess what she got new basically

733
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: do not invite to Yeah, Veneta, And now she's crawling

734
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: her way.

735
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 5: Back because her whole brand, she literally sold t shirts

736
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 5: that said no one.

737
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 1: But she's got nothing left. Now she's done. All I

738
00:32:58,200 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: mean a chance is to continue to suck up to try.

739
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 5: Only she needs.

740
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 2: I mean, if she wants to preserve any shred of dignity, soul, whatever,

741
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 2: you would have to resign.

742
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 5: But apparently right but she's gone.

743
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 1: If anything, she's gone all in. I hope she got

744
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: a lot of money from those T shirts. Because when

745
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: the Democrats are in power and this Fulton County stuff

746
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: is happening, I hope you have a lot of money

747
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: to survive some subpoenas. You're gonna be looking at two

748
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 1: three hundred thousand dollars in legal bills from whatever that

749
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: that comes. So good luck to you and to the

750
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: Gabbard family. But if you think also about all the others,

751
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: I'll make the case right. And this is what I

752
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: always hear behind the scenes. What are they supposed to do?

753
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: They can't do anything, They don't have any real power. Bullshit.

754
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: In my opinion, Tulsi, you can resign. There are a

755
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: lot of other people sec Pete, Hexeth and others. I

756
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 1: mean they literally said the opposite in cases and look,

757
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: to be fair, there were also clips of them floating

758
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 1: around out there where they were very hawkishte Pete in particular,

759
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: I chose not to believe it. There are many people

760
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: who assured interviews and other the positioning they're like, it

761
00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: has changed. It's legitimately different. I mean Steve Miller's on

762
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: television today a Trump doctor in his side isolationism America first,

763
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 1: not mean America alone. We're all, you know, our great

764
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: powerful military Iran. To be honest, I mean, I actually

765
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: think he was against some of the wars previously. I

766
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 1: remember talking to the people who knew him. I mean,

767
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: that's why it's so crazy. But what you have to

768
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,359
Speaker 1: do now, it's all about just pleasing Trump and from

769
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: that point Trump, I guess Trump has literally in many

770
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,919
Speaker 1: cases almost never inserted absolute and total control over any

771
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: real foreign policy portfolio. He really was relatively blank slate,

772
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: deal maker, et cetera. Again, that's why I thought the

773
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 1: staff would be highly, highly influential. But clearly on Iran,

774
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: he was the primary mover here. I don't think he

775
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 1: was pushed into this. I just want to be that

776
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 1: very clear. He was the person who made the ultimate decision.

777
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: And I'm still I'm still trying to figure out that story, right,

778
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: I still don't know.

779
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 2: I feel like he also has bought into some of

780
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 2: the messianic hype around him himself.

781
00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, very right, especially nine Am or two Venezuela. It's

782
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: like you said, I mean, he's a gambler who keeps

783
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: he's like on a hot roll on a craps table,

784
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: like he keeps getting but ultimate again, if you read

785
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 1: enough history. It's like, oh my god, Stony success, Stney success,

786
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 1: Sney success, and you start to believe all the hype

787
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: and then boom you slam into a brick wall and

788
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: then you invade Russia, right, what ends up happening?

789
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I mean it's I think he's he

790
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 2: talks about his own mortality a lot. Yeah, lately, he's

791
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 2: thinking he'd apparently just now believe he'll be getting into

792
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 2: heaven based on what he said, I would say, if

793
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 2: there is a heaven, I think that's probably pretty accurate assessment.

794
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 2: And he's thinking about his legacy and so along with

795
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 2: you know, some stupid arch and frickin' ballroom and the drapes,

796
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 2: the other thing that he wants to establish as his

797
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 2: legacy is like he's worse. That's that's what he's decided.

798
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 2: That's his way to make his mark on the world.

799
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,879
Speaker 2: And so so here we are. And that's a good

800
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: transition to talking about some of the I can't even

801
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 2: call them religious undercurrents because at this point it's such

802
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,439
Speaker 2: a dominant talking point. And I for me, as someone

803
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 2: who is like I'm not a religious person, totally secular person,

804
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 2: I don't factor in when I'm thinking about geopolitics, that

805
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:22,240
Speaker 2: you have these like fanatical religious zealots who are ideologically

806
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,879
Speaker 2: committed to, you know, this like end Times ideology, many

807
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 2: of whom are in high positions of power here in Israel,

808
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 2: and also like Iran is literally a theocracy. And so

809
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 2: we wanted to bring in Emily to you know, to

810
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 2: shed some light on the specifics of what this ideology

811
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 2: is and just how influential it has been in bringing

812
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 2: us to this place. So, guys, increasingly American officials and

813
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 2: military commanders are framing our war with Iran in religious

814
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:59,760
Speaker 2: holy war terms. You also obviously have the Israelis framing

815
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 2: things and religious terms. You have the Iranians, which is

816
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 2: literally a theocracy. So to help us understand what the

817
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 2: hell is going on with all of this, we could

818
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:09,879
Speaker 2: think of no one better than our own co host,

819
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,800
Speaker 2: Emily Jishinski, who also is host of After Party with Emily.

820
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 2: Great to see Emily, Good to see m Thanks for

821
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 2: having me.

822
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 13: Guys.

823
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, of course I need you to.

824
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 2: I need you to explain all of this to me

825
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 2: because it's very disturbing and very confusing to me. So

826
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,320
Speaker 2: I'm going to run through a bunch of things that

827
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 2: have just happened on the American Christian nationalist side, and

828
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 2: you can break down for me. You know what they're thinking,

829
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 2: how deep this ideology goes, et cetera. So let's go

830
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 2: ahead and start here with Lindsey Graham, who has been

831
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 2: a primary mover and shaker in terms for years, but

832
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 2: especially under this Trump administration, pushing towards this war, and

833
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 2: he is explicitly framing it as a religious war.

834
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 5: Let's take a listen to that.

835
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 14: This is a religious war. Who wins it at the

836
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 14: end of the day. Do the radical Islamic terrorist who

837
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 14: want to kill all the Jews because God told them to,

838
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 14: who want to kill me because I'm an Infidel, who

839
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 14: want to purify Islam, to reject moderation and make everybody

840
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 14: a jahadas.

841
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 15: This is a big deal.

842
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 14: I'll deal with Section two thirty. So what we're facing

843
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 14: right now is a moment of decision that will set

844
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 14: the course of the future of the Mid East for

845
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 14: a thousand years.

846
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 5: So religious war.

847
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 2: And if that's not enough for you, here is Speaker

848
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 2: of the House Mike Johnson framing this also in terms

849
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,240
Speaker 2: of his problems with the Iranians religion.

850
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,919
Speaker 16: They have been and they say that quiet parts out loud.

851
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 16: They wanted to wipe Israel off the face of the earth,

852
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 16: and they'd like to take us out as well. We're

853
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:41,280
Speaker 16: the great Satan and their analogy, and they're misguided religion

854
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 16: and there was no way to appease them.

855
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,839
Speaker 2: Misguided religion. Okay, we've got Senator Kramer when confronted by

856
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 2: Code Pink activists media. Benjamin also talking about our religious

857
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 2: obligations to Israel.

858
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 5: Let's listen to that is really beautiful.

859
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: Of listen, did I states in the Israel iron clad partners.

860
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 16: We need them in the Middle East, we need them

861
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 16: for strong We have a biblical responsibility to him as

862
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 16: well as an allied responsibility Israel.

863
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: We should never we should never sever that relationship.

864
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 2: Biblical responsibility to Israel. This is a United States senator

865
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 2: obviously just took a vote on war Powers resolution. He says,

866
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 2: our responsibilities there are biblical. Let's take a look at

867
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 2: F six. There's a report that military commanders, multiple of them,

868
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 2: are telling troops that President Trump has been anointed by

869
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 2: Jesus to light the signal fire in Iran to Kara's

870
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 2: armageddon and mark his return to Earth. So you have

871
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,320
Speaker 2: a bunch of complaints coming in to a nonprofit organization

872
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 2: saying that you know, this whole separation of church and

873
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 2: state thing is not being held true to. As you

874
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 2: have a number of military commanders framing this war as

875
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 2: you know, a biblical religious conflict. You have the let's

876
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,439
Speaker 2: do five f five next, guys, this is PAULA White,

877
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 2: This is Trump's spiritual advisor. To get a sense of

878
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,280
Speaker 2: the you know, what's going going on here beneath behind

879
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 2: the scenes, the type of you know, spiritual guidance that

880
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 2: the President of the United States is receiving.

881
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 5: Let's listen to that.

882
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 15: Strike and strike and strike and strike and strike and

883
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,240
Speaker 15: strike and strike and strike and strike and strike until

884
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 15: you have victory for every enemy that is aligned against you.

885
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 15: Let there be that we would strike the ground for

886
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 15: you will give us victory. God, I hear a sound

887
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 15: of abundance of rain. I hear a sound of victory.

888
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 15: I hear a sound of shouting and singing. I hear

889
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,399
Speaker 15: a sound of victory. Angels are being dispatched right now.

890
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 15: Hamanda Sandata rita eata Rica Dhada for angels have even

891
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 15: despit dispatch from Africa right now Africa right now, Africa,

892
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:45,879
Speaker 15: right now, from Africa, right now.

893
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,800
Speaker 5: And finally the Secretary have you seen the remix of

894
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 5: that clip? By the way, but I would like to bangers.

895
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 2: Finally, the Secuary of War Pete Hagsath, who has the

896
00:40:58,000 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 2: you know, Crusader crossed.

897
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 5: He was an extremists and not allowed to.

898
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 2: Participate in protection for the Biden inauguration because of his tattoos.

899
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 5: Here he is talking about.

900
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 2: Some of this biblical prophecy and including the miracle of

901
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 2: reconstructing the Third Temple of Solomon. He also reportedly at

902
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 2: a bar previously was chanting kill all Muslims. So this

903
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 2: is our Secretary of warpeat Texas.

904
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 13: And today Jennifer and I and others had a chance

905
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 13: to go see the western wall of the temple now

906
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 13: the western wall tunnels so much of the old city.

907
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 13: And as you stand there, you can't help but behold

908
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 13: the miracle before you. And it got me thinking about

909
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 13: another miracle that I hope all of you don't see

910
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 13: too far away, Because nineteen seventeen was a miracle, nineteen

911
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 13: forty eight was a miracle, nineteen sixty seven was a miracle.

912
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 12: Twenty seventeen, the Declaration of Jerusalem, of the capital was

913
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 12: a miracle, and there's no reason why the miracle of

914
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 12: the re establishment of the Temple on the Temple Mount

915
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:04,240
Speaker 12: is not possible.

916
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 1: I don't know how it would happen. You don't know

917
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 1: how it would happen, but I know that.

918
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 5: It could happen so emily.

919
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 2: Why is this increasingly being framed as a religious conflict

920
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 2: holy war from the American side.

921
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 8: Well, what's interesting about that last heg Seth clip is

922
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 8: that was around the time where the embassy was moved

923
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 8: officially by the first Trump administration to Jerusalem, and that's

924
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 8: when we saw a lot of this flaring up as well,

925
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,320
Speaker 8: a lot of people speaking just like Hegseth did. And

926
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 8: Hegseth in that clip is somewhat careful. He doesn't say

927
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 8: why there should be a third Temple, which from the

928
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:51,360
Speaker 8: dispensationalist position, So if you're an evangelical Christian, there's a sect.

929
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 8: It's sort of it's sort of informal. It's taught in

930
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 8: some seminaries, but it's kind of a pop culture thing too.

931
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 8: There's a movement called dispensationalism, and it's been around a while.

932
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 8: It's had waning popularity in America through different periods. But

933
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 8: it's not just about the end Times, but basically prescribes

934
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 8: different dispensations of history, and one of those dispensations would

935
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 8: be the Third Temple getting rebuilt and that ushering in

936
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 8: the end times. And one of the easiest ways to

937
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 8: think about it is you substitute everywhere in scripture for

938
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 8: where everywhere you've seen in scripture Israel, you substitute that

939
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 8: for the nation, the current nation of Israel, so political Israel.

940
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 8: And if you read scripture that way, that the nation

941
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,919
Speaker 8: of Israel that was established in the last one hundred years.

942
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 8: You can see why people, especially when the embassy was

943
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:50,760
Speaker 8: being moved to Jerusalem, look at this in evangelical circles

944
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 8: as being fulfillment of scripture. Now, I'm a non denominational evangelical.

945
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 8: I grew up Missouri, Sinred Lutherans. We weren't dispensationalist. But

946
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 8: it was a huge pop culture movement at the time

947
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 8: in the nineties, and so a lot of people in

948
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 8: conservative Christian circles grew up with like the Left Behind books,

949
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 8: the movies. They were very popular at the time. And

950
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 8: Pete heiksas Church is not dispensationalist. I don't know where

951
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 8: he was going to church in twenty eighteen. I think

952
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 8: that's why he was careful with it. So some of

953
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:26,280
Speaker 8: this is flirting with people who are dispensationalist. The movement

954
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 8: has kind of been waning since the nineties, since the

955
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 8: early aughts. There aren't a ton of people like even

956
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 8: there are a ton of people I know in evangelical

957
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:38,320
Speaker 8: circles who are still dispensationalist my age, but it's a

958
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,800
Speaker 8: lot of boomers, a lot of people who, you know,

959
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 8: that's how they've always seen Israel. The last thing I'll

960
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:46,360
Speaker 8: just add on this point because there's a lot more

961
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 8: to talk about. But the last thing I'll add on

962
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 8: this point is if you grew up, you know, part

963
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:56,839
Speaker 8: of your life there wasn't a country called Israel, then

964
00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 8: again you could see how it's easy to read into

965
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,359
Speaker 8: some of this the fulfillment of scripture when suddenly there

966
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:07,760
Speaker 8: is a country called Israel that kept surviving after all.

967
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 1: Of this conflict.

968
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 8: So that's where some of this is coming from. I

969
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 8: think it is theologically very misguided, but that's a little

970
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 8: bit of the background on like the movement that fuels

971
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 8: some of.

972
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 1: Us well, let's get into the nitty gritty. So Tucker

973
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 1: did a whole episode about this today, which I also

974
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: recommend people go and listen to. Why would the Third

975
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 1: Why do they even want the Third Temple to be built? Because,

976
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 1: as he was saying, it's actually kind of violates their

977
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: own scripture about the way that they see Jesus as

978
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 1: the coming of God and that, but it's very important

979
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 1: in the Torah and to the rebuilding of the Temple

980
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: to like Jewish theology, and that there's kind of basically

981
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 1: an intersection within the dispensationalist framework about bringing about the

982
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 1: end times and apocalypse and the return of Christ to Earth.

983
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,360
Speaker 1: So get into some of that because you know, obviously

984
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,360
Speaker 1: not exactly my area of expertise.

985
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 8: No, that's exactly right, because that's part of this big

986
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 8: debate in Christian circles about dispensations. So there's something called

987
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 8: pre millennial dispensationalism, there's something called post millennial dispensationalism, and

988
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 8: then there's a millennials. But what that means is you're

989
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 8: reading into scripture and a lot of these prophetic verses

990
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 8: are they're vague, and that's part of the I think

991
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 8: theological problem with carving out dispensations is it's very clear

992
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 8: in the Gospels.

993
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: For instance, that you're not going to know.

994
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 8: There will be signs, but you're not going to know,

995
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 8: So if you're reading really specific things into the dispensations,

996
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 8: I mean, my perspective on that is it's not prescribed

997
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 8: in the Gospels. It's not the way that Christ talked

998
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 8: about the end times. But there are different dispensations. So

999
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 8: if you're a pre millennial dispensationalist, you believe that this

1000
00:46:54,960 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 8: ushers in a millenarian time where Christ returns and the

1001
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 8: Jews are Ryan will say, you know a lot of Christians,

1002
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 8: he'll say, it's like using Jewish people as cannon fodder

1003
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 8: for the apocalypse. That's how Ryan's described it before. I

1004
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 8: think the charitable way that a lot of evangelicals would

1005
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 8: say is actually that they believed the Jewish people are

1006
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:21,399
Speaker 8: going to be protected and are going to be by

1007
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 8: when Christ returns, are going to be ushered in to

1008
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 8: the true Church with Jesus. And that's where this particular

1009
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 8: plot of land, which is the Temple mount as you mentioned, Sager,

1010
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 8: if you have a third Temple, then Christ returns it's

1011
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 8: a sign of the return. And you can read into Daniel,

1012
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 8: you can read into the Book of Revelation, you can

1013
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 8: read into all kinds of different prophecies. I mean, that's

1014
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 8: why numbers nineteen. The Red Heifer, which Ryan and I

1015
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 8: have covered before. That's why there's the Temple Institute in

1016
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 8: Jerusalem that is preparing things like the Arc of the

1017
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 8: Covenant to exist at biblical proportions, the Red Heifer to

1018
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 8: exact biblical proportions, because they believe they want to re

1019
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,760
Speaker 8: enter the Temple and you can't without the Red Heifer,

1020
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 8: for example. So that means that they're fully intent on

1021
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,320
Speaker 8: building the Third Temple, which then brings us into conflict

1022
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 8: obviously with Islam, where you have the Dome of the

1023
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 8: Rock al Oxa on that exact same territory and people

1024
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 8: who are willing to fight to the death to protect

1025
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 8: that from being rebuilt. So a little bit of a tangent,

1026
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 8: but basically, there are dispensations that people believe in, and

1027
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 8: part of it is the Jewish people rebuilding the Third

1028
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:37,720
Speaker 8: Temple that ushering in the apocalyptic, apocalyptic reign of Christ.

1029
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and look here's my it's a free country.

1030
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 2: People can believe whatever they want to believe. It becomes

1031
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 2: my problem when policymakers are asserting that this ideology is

1032
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:50,439
Speaker 2: being used to justify another endless war in the Middle East.

1033
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 5: You know, partly, I think all.

1034
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 2: Of us have been trying to read the tea leaves

1035
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 2: and get whatever intel we can read the reporting about,

1036
00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:00,320
Speaker 2: like what is going on here. Why even though the

1037
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 2: political people and the military people and all our allies

1038
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:05,880
Speaker 2: in the region and the Europeans are like, don't do this,

1039
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 2: why we still did this? And I'm curious for your

1040
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 2: view on how influential this religious ideological view is, Like

1041
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:19,399
Speaker 2: how many people in high levels of the Trump administration

1042
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 2: are in favor of this war because they want to

1043
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 2: like precipitate the end times, like these military commanders are

1044
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 2: telling our troops.

1045
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 8: Yeah, I wonder about that too. I think it's sort

1046
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 8: of less the dispensationalists and more the people who believe

1047
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:37,880
Speaker 8: that you have to see it's overlaps with dispensationalism, but

1048
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 8: people who believe that you have to literally interpret Israel

1049
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 8: as the modern nation state of Israel in scripture. So

1050
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 8: that's where I would look at a Pete Hegseth, for example,

1051
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 8: and say, I don't think that he's a dispensationalist. He

1052
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,240
Speaker 8: goes to Doug Wilson's church. I don't think he believes

1053
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 8: that we have some moral obligation to usher in this

1054
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:58,760
Speaker 8: dispensation of the end times. I do think he believes

1055
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:02,399
Speaker 8: very strongly that everywhere we see Israel in scripture, we're

1056
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 8: not just talking about the lowercase end nation of the

1057
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 8: Jewish people. We are talking about the literal political nation

1058
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 8: state of modern Israel. And I do think there are

1059
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 8: a lot of people Mike Huckabee, and Hkkabee has played

1060
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 8: very carefully with dispensationalist rhetoric. My strong guess is that

1061
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 8: Mike Kokabee is a dispensationalist, but he's also, like I've

1062
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 8: gone back to when he ran for president in the

1063
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 8: eight cycle to try and decode and get him like

1064
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 8: explicitly saying talking like a dispensationalist. He does talk like

1065
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:35,320
Speaker 8: a dispensationalist, but he's been careful to whether or not

1066
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 8: to like fully embrace that politically. But I'm pretty sure

1067
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:40,879
Speaker 8: Mike Huckabee, you could probably put him in that vein.

1068
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 8: You can definitely put him in the vein of somebody

1069
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 8: who substitutes the nation of Israel in scripture for the

1070
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 8: modern political nation state of Israel. And I actually think

1071
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:53,719
Speaker 8: that's probably even more powerfully driving the people in the

1072
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 8: Trump administration's policy toward Israel. We know Donald Trump doesn't

1073
00:50:57,640 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 8: I mean, Paula White could say whatever she wants. Donald Trump,

1074
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:01,760
Speaker 8: he doesn't believe any of it. He thinks it's wacky.

1075
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:03,839
Speaker 8: There's like no question in my mind.

1076
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's like a temple around the lions. But

1077
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:07,839
Speaker 1: I mean, the Speaker of the House, you know, you've

1078
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 1: got to y, Senators, we just played for you. They

1079
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 1: believe this stuff inside Israel too. I wanted to flag this,

1080
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 1: like you said about the Temple, this is institute. Let's

1081
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 1: go ahead and put F seven up on the screen.

1082
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 1: So here you have soldiers of the IDF and they're

1083
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 1: tweeting out the Temple Institute saying, soldiers of the IDF

1084
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 1: are fighting with all their might, hearts and souls for

1085
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:26,840
Speaker 1: the land of Israel, the people of Israel, and the

1086
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 1: God of Israel. This soldier made that clear when he

1087
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 1: attached an arm patch depicting the Holy Temple and the

1088
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 1: word devere ancient Hebrew for the Holy of Holies. Can

1089
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 1: we show the patch guys, please, just to show everybody

1090
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,440
Speaker 1: what they have on their arm. And then you also

1091
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:45,320
Speaker 1: had previously members of the IDF and others put, for example,

1092
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 1: like Greater Israel patches on their uniform to signify what

1093
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 1: they are voting for. So can you explain why this

1094
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: is so significant? Like you just said to these Temple Institute,

1095
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:55,840
Speaker 1: what is the Temple Institute? Why is it so powerful?

1096
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 8: Yeah, the Temple Institute is a really important aspect of

1097
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:02,880
Speaker 8: all of this because it's this physical manifestation of the

1098
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 8: theology here of people, I would argue, like a Ben

1099
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 8: Gavie who goes in praise on the Temple mount So

1100
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 8: that's not you're not supposed to do that, but has

1101
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:15,880
Speaker 8: been pushing the limits, pushing the limits, pushing the limits.

1102
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 8: This is actually what was cited by a Hamas when

1103
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 8: they talked about Operation what al Oxa flood, that is

1104
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 8: what they called October seventh, and part of their justification

1105
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:32,840
Speaker 8: for that awful attack was that they saw encroachment on

1106
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:35,840
Speaker 8: this area. And so that's where this gets really like

1107
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 8: politically and on a human level, very scary because this

1108
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 8: is sacred ground obviously to three faiths and eschatologically significant

1109
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:49,360
Speaker 8: for three faiths. So for people who are supportive of

1110
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 8: the Temple Institute, which is funded by billionaires, they have

1111
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 8: literally been going through the exact specifications and versus like

1112
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 8: numbers nineteen. They have been you know, you mentioned the

1113
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:01,840
Speaker 8: holiest of holies that's supposed to be in the Temple.

1114
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 8: That's where God resides in the Temple. That's where you

1115
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 8: have to build that place. This is throughout the Old Testament.

1116
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 8: You build that place for God. This is the arc

1117
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 8: of the Covenant, has been built to specifications by the

1118
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:19,799
Speaker 8: Temple Institute. They have made preparations for Israel to take

1119
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:23,319
Speaker 8: that ground basically and rebuild the Third Temple. So it's

1120
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:25,319
Speaker 8: actually not a crazy abstract thing.

1121
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 1: This is in motion.

1122
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:31,879
Speaker 8: It is funded by politically significant billionaires, and people try

1123
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 8: to keep My sense is that in Israel, far right

1124
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:36,440
Speaker 8: politicians try to kind of keep a little bit of

1125
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 8: distance from it because it's such a hot, hot, hot

1126
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 8: kinetic question from the Temple Institute itself. But this is

1127
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:46,840
Speaker 8: happening and there are people who are obviously supportive of it,

1128
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 8: and so if Israel were to get this ground, they

1129
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:54,320
Speaker 8: would be rebuilding the Third Temple and expecting in some

1130
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:59,720
Speaker 8: cases to be like operating with Third Temple Judaism like immediately,

1131
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 8: and I think a lot of far right Jews absolutely

1132
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 8: would support that. Religious Jews would absolutely support that. I mean,

1133
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:08,839
Speaker 8: it is in their scripture. So that's where this can

1134
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 8: come to a head very very quickly, in very very

1135
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 8: ugly ways.

1136
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 2: And do those donors overlap with Republican Party or Donald

1137
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 2: Trump donors.

1138
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 8: My guess is probably the Washington posted a long story

1139
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 8: back in twenty thirteen on who was funding the Temple Institute,

1140
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 8: and I would assume that some of the same people

1141
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 8: have since been active in the Trump world. One of

1142
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 8: the reasons I would assume that is because we saw

1143
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:36,360
Speaker 8: again some of this overlap when he moved the embassy

1144
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 8: to Jerusalem that was, and then obviously with Mike Huckabee

1145
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:42,840
Speaker 8: now being the ambassador, he's not just an advisory's not

1146
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 8: just like Paul White, He's literally the ambassador to Israel,

1147
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:49,919
Speaker 8: which is so yes, I would assume so, but it's

1148
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 8: I think they try to be kind of low key,

1149
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:55,839
Speaker 8: so's it's hard to know exactly.

1150
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:57,839
Speaker 2: One person who hasn't been that low key about certain

1151
00:54:57,880 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 2: of his views. As Pete Hegseth just to go back

1152
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 2: to him because he is the Secretary of War. Reportedly,

1153
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 2: I don't know it's true or not he's pushing for

1154
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 2: a ground invasion in Iran. He wrote a book in

1155
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:12,239
Speaker 2: twenty twenty called American Crusade. In it he argued that

1156
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 2: quote Christian crusaders pushed back the Muslim hordes in the

1157
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 2: twelfth century, American crusaders will need to muster the same

1158
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 2: courage against Islamists today. And so he's been quite explicit

1159
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 2: about his view that he wants another like Crusades two

1160
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 2: point zero, and that he views it in explicitly religious terms.

1161
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 2: So talk to us about what we know about his ideology,

1162
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 2: as he is clearly a key influential figure behind the

1163
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:42,840
Speaker 2: scenes making important decisions about how this all unfolds.

1164
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:45,280
Speaker 8: And just by the way, while you were saying that, Crystal,

1165
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:47,879
Speaker 8: I did look up some of the Temple Mount donors. Yes,

1166
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,239
Speaker 8: and the instinct that you had is correct. It's not

1167
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 8: entirely surprising overlap with Trump World. One of them actually

1168
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:57,760
Speaker 8: quit the Columbia University Board of Directors over post October

1169
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 8: seventh things on that camp. So heg Sath, I think

1170
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:07,320
Speaker 8: I mean this is again right now post October seventh.

1171
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 8: There are people who are actually in the bucket that

1172
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 8: are critical of Israel from a Christian perspective that might

1173
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 8: be more like aligned with actually Tucker on this, but

1174
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:24,279
Speaker 8: who are frustrated with Tucker for urging more. I don't

1175
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:28,400
Speaker 8: even know what the right word is, tolerance of Islam.

1176
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 8: Maybe that's the right way to put it, because you know,

1177
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 8: the Rod Dreri writes about this a lot. He's an

1178
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:37,880
Speaker 8: Orthodox Christian, but he writes about how the civilizational conflict

1179
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:41,919
Speaker 8: between Islam and Christianity is inevitably coming to a head

1180
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 8: in the twenty first century.

1181
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:45,400
Speaker 1: So Hegseith is in that bucket.

1182
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 8: I think it's not necessarily an ascatological and times type thing,

1183
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 8: but it is definitely Christianity has been too permissive of

1184
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:57,680
Speaker 8: the spread of Islam, would be the line, for too long,

1185
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 8: and are you need to sort of prepare for that

1186
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:05,480
Speaker 8: fight because it's inevitably surging in the years ahead. That's

1187
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:07,719
Speaker 8: how I would describe the perspective of people like Pete.

1188
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 1: I think that makes sense. Yeah, well, crazy stuff, at

1189
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 1: least from my perspective. You know, like you says, free country,

1190
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 1: you can believe anything you would like. It is a

1191
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 1: little worrying whenever it starts to affect our foreign policy.

1192
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 8: Go ahead, well, I was just gonna say, also, we

1193
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 8: didn't even cover the eschatological perspective of like the IRGC,

1194
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 8: which has in recent years been looking specifically at a

1195
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 8: lot of this as like the matism and in mom

1196
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 8: and we could have Muslim guests explain this better than

1197
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 8: I can. But that particular slice of land, which is

1198
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 8: in context right now, is so tied up in some

1199
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 8: extremist eschatologies, some mainstream eschatologies around the world, so it's

1200
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 8: such a fragile situation as well.

1201
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:52,400
Speaker 5: Week I do want to ask you one.

1202
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 2: Question about that though, because obviously we assassinated the Isola,

1203
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 2: who was not only a political leader but also a

1204
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 2: Shia religious You know, I've seen some analysis that you know,

1205
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 2: basically like, okay, you've now turned this guy who was

1206
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 2: an old man and probably dying within the year, You've

1207
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 2: now turned him into a martyr. And this is going

1208
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:12,960
Speaker 2: to have significance for Shia Muslims, not only in Iran

1209
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 2: but across the region. You may see some signs of

1210
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 2: that already, since we have riots in Bahrain, which is

1211
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 2: sort of a fifty to fifty roughly Muslim Shia Muslim country.

1212
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 2: So you know, what do you make of that analysis

1213
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 2: and the significance of our assassination of the Ayatola.

1214
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 8: Yeah, stuff about like Mazism is often peddled by neo

1215
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,800
Speaker 8: conservatives who are pushing for exactly what just happened, war

1216
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 8: with Iran and heightened conflict with Iran. I look at

1217
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 8: that as actually evidence to the contrary, which is that

1218
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 8: you are not going to bomb away this theology that

1219
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 8: is now deeply ingrained by your own arguments in the IRGC,

1220
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 8: which is you know, it's not one hundred percent support

1221
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 8: of Iranians, of course not, but it's not an insignificant

1222
00:58:57,080 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 8: portion of the country either.

1223
00:58:58,120 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 1: We've seen people weeping in.

1224
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 8: The streets over the death of the Ayatola. So it's

1225
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 8: not like you're bombing away entire suaths of Iran that

1226
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:11,960
Speaker 8: are supportive of the Iatola and this theology. So that

1227
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 8: to me is also I mean completely backwards, but it's

1228
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 8: you end up again with potential for an isis to

1229
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:23,080
Speaker 8: come out of a power vacuum where you have radicalized

1230
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 8: people who are even because they feel like this just

1231
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:28,920
Speaker 8: confirmed what the Iyahtola was saying about him being a

1232
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 8: martyr and him being a historic religious figure, which obviously

1233
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 8: he is, but in that kind of theological sense as well.

1234
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 8: So it's so dangerous. It's so dangerous, and that has

1235
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 8: been used as evidence why we should act. I think

1236
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:46,680
Speaker 8: it's scary that you would have anybody with nuclear weapons

1237
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 8: who has that eschatological claim on the land. There are

1238
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:52,200
Speaker 8: many countries at this point who have people in their

1239
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 8: countries with those types of beliefs. United States, Israel, so

1240
00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 8: missiles in the hands of people who believe that destruct

1241
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 8: of Jewish people helps bring about the Mazi, who helps

1242
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 8: bring about that dispensation in Islamic theology. No, it's not

1243
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 8: comfortable to the rest of the world either, But did

1244
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:15,439
Speaker 8: you just make that more potent serious question?

1245
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 1: Obviously serious question. Yeah, And what I had read is that,

1246
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 1: I mean, look, I don't know he's eighty he was

1247
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 1: eighty six right when he died, But he had multiple

1248
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 1: quotes on the record where he's like, my greatest fear

1249
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 1: is it all? Like, I don't have it exactly, but

1250
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 1: he was like, my greatest fears I'll die of old

1251
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 1: age and I won't get to be a martyr. And

1252
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:33,760
Speaker 1: so he was like a year left. He basically says

1253
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 1: something like that, he's like, my greatest year, dosn't wanted

1254
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 1: to die as a martyr? And he did? Right? And

1255
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:37,800
Speaker 1: now he did?

1256
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:38,440
Speaker 3: And so now what?

1257
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 1: And so you've got all these Shia Muslims in Iraq

1258
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:44,320
Speaker 1: and Bahrain and elsewhere, we're gonna look at who knows

1259
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:46,240
Speaker 1: who they're going to elect. There's some reporting now that

1260
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 1: his own son might be selected, even though the Ayatola

1261
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 1: himself had put up like he had said some things

1262
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 1: about how he didn't want like familial succession necessarily, but

1263
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 1: they might do it as a political statement. I mean,

1264
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:02,120
Speaker 1: if you killed my father and what didn't kill his

1265
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 1: granddaughter and his daughter and so my sister and his wife,

1266
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:08,120
Speaker 1: her wife daughter and all that. Yeah, what do you

1267
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:10,520
Speaker 1: think my beliefs are going to be? Right? It doesn't

1268
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:12,840
Speaker 1: take a genius at a personal level, and then combine

1269
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:15,960
Speaker 1: that with religious faith one of the most important Shia

1270
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 1: leaders in the world to say, oh man, you know

1271
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 1: this could have some serious consequences anyway. I mean, we've

1272
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:23,320
Speaker 1: talked for a long time. Thank you, We appreciate it.

1273
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 1: You're a religion correspondent. Thank you guys so much for watching.

1274
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:29,960
Speaker 1: We appreciate it. Greet Friday show for everybody tomorrow. We

1275
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 1: will see you all then. As a reminder, we have

1276
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:34,440
Speaker 1: our promo going on. Let's put it up there on

1277
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:39,160
Speaker 1: the screen. BP three twenty six at Breakingpoints dot com yep.

1278
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:42,840
Speaker 2: And guys, so appreciate all of your support. Wanted to

1279
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 2: make sure that everybody who wants to have access to

1280
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 2: everything can have access to everything. So make sure and

1281
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:51,240
Speaker 2: avail yourself of that free month trial and we'll see

1282
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 2: you guys tomorrow.

1283
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:52,160
Speaker 1: That's right,