WEBVTT - The D Word 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:04.400 This is How Men Think with brooks Like and Gavin 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:09.160 to Grab and I heard radio podcast. Welcome to another 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:11.080 episode of How Men Think. My name is brooks Like 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:14.480 and we are in studio at I Hearts and we 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:18.120 are Yeah. I love how you guys always clap for yourself. 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:20.360 I love clapping. I know it makes the room light. 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:22.239 People feel good when we call you start some really 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:23.880 good clapping thing, Like as soon as you clap, we 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:26.319 all respond, like, I know, I know. It's fun at fun. 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:29.120 We're running a couple of people short right now. They're 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:30.480 on their way, they're on they're all on their way. 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:32.640 Gavin's going to get in and complain that he's stuck 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:35.760 on a public airplane what he calls like a greyhound 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:38.760 bus or something. Rick just landed in Burbank, so he's 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:41.080 driving here literally and it's like eight minutes away, so 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:43.240 he'll be here in a second. And then Gavin's coming 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:46.040 from I don't want to reveal where he stays, but 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:49.000 from where they're on their way. We're the only ones 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:53.600 really committed to this podcasting. Yeah, but we're the only ones. 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:56.000 Dmitries here, what's up, buddy, what's up? How's it going? 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:58.280 It's going great, Buddy. I always love seeing you. You're 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:00.240 You're like the one work horse I can cow on 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:02.640 this show. I actually really love this podcast, so I 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:04.319 get here even on days we don't have it. I 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:07.959 just come here and sit here. I love it too, man, 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:09.800 I'm in here. Ask Amy when we have Amy, our 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:12.600 producer Amy here with us. Amy. You're texting right now. 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:15.399 We're doing a show. We're live on the show. People 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:18.720 are calling. I hope they're sponsors. You know what I do. 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:21.839 Sometimes I listen back to the podcast and I talk 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:24.480 as if I it's live again, and I give different perspectives, 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:26.200 and I talked to you and I have great conversations 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:27.920 on the replace right on, Buddy, I knew we were 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:30.560 good friends. There's something energetic there. I will say this 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:33.360 about you though you you usually always beat me in here. 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:36.320 I come early. Well today, I actually that's wrong. Today 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:41.680 I was fifteen minutes later. Most days i'm here very early, 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:43.959 and you usually beat me here and we talk I 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:46.080 think a lot, like through text. How much we really 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:49.040 enjoy doing the podcast, and I disliked. So that's one 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:50.560 thing is I love it here, so I do. I 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:52.600 do love to get here, but I also don't like 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:55.280 being late to things. I don't either, always earlier to things. Yeah, 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:58.640 I don't either. I am always fifteen minutes late, always 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:02.080 really yeah, I mean ways, it's I don't know the 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:05.600 same with me. I punctuality. I value punctuality in myself. 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:08.960 Today except today was today. I was late for a 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:11.359 couple of things. Today. It's been it's been a tough day. 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:13.840 It's been a great day. It's been, but things, things 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:15.880 have been creating and happening, and so I wanted to 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:18.240 stay with them in the element when they were um. 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:20.919 And then the schedule kept up, and I was like, OK, really, 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:22.880 it sounds like you're going real deep to disguise the 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:23.919 fact that you were just like You're like, I just 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:26.120 wanted to just really soak in the moment that I 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:27.640 was in. You were just late, yea, I was just 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:29.520 heading by the pool man. I didn't I wasn't doing 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:31.840 anything today. I ever had a bad mood Brooks like 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:36.400 where you just pissed. Yeah really yeah, And it's fun. 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:38.800 It's fun to be in a piste off mood because 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:41.440 like that was a lot of that was hockey playing. 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:44.519 It's fun. I used to love having enemies that's a 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:48.320 fun because you get to it's so much enemies, but 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:51.040 you get to really it's another way of releasing emotion. 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:53.760 Like it's a big pendulum swing of emotion. Like rage 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:56.800 is fun, anger is fun to feel, it's driving, it's motivating. 0:02:56.880 --> 0:02:58.760 It's not where I want to live and spend my life. 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:02.240 But to swing the pendulum that way is sometimes very 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:04.160 I actually would love to have a therapist come in 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:08.440 again because I think that when I should be mad, 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:12.480 I feel sad, and I think it feels your stake 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:16.440 being mad. I don't have I rarely get mad. I 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:19.680 get sad. Let's just let's hang like a punching bag 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:21.920 in your apartment or condo, and let's just turn that 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:24.120 sadness into anytime you feel sad, you just go an 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:27.200 unleash on this punching bag. Thinks we need to explore 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:30.440 because maybe men are more comfortable with anger and women 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:36.160 get sad. That would be a great down a therapist 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:37.480 in here. There's gonna be a whole lot of yelling 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:41.280 and crying. It's gonna be great. I don't like it. Yeah, 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:43.600 that would be a great topic for a show because 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:47.240 I really don't get sad. I get frustrated or angry. 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:50.720 I never do. I'm always crying. I cried almost every day, Wow, 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:54.600 almost every day for a minute here, a minute there, 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:58.280 or like watching TV or like today about tickets to 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:02.680 see Oprah. I cried, but it was a happy cry, 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:06.480 like or did you cry because they were? They were? 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:10.040 But last night I was a counterfeit. The last night 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:12.440 I watched that show on Hulu, four Weddings in a Funeral. 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:18.400 Just wow, Okay, cry every day, Okay, I'm I'm with you, Brooks. 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:20.560 And I like to get mad. Um. I don't like 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:23.880 to like get mad and rage at people like something 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:26.200 that's real. So I usually like to yell at people 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:27.919 in other cars, but something that I have no idea, 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:29.400 Like you can't see someone in a car, so i'd 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:32.760 be like you, skinny bastard, But I have no idea 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:35.440 what they look like. Oh I have zero road rage you. 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:38.119 Uh No, I don't have a lot of road rage. 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:42.080 I don't think, um. But I tap into like rage 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:44.400 when I need to, like like when lifting, when working 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:46.720 out a lot of times, like I'll tap into the 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:49.200 emotion that came up when I was competing against another 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:51.400 guy because hockey there was face to face. There was 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:55.120 there was blunt, forced physical conflict in hockey, and so 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:59.000 that taught me to level up my intensity and emotion 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:02.680 and also rage. Sometimes sometimes a guy would get the 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:04.960 best of you and provoke a bear in you that 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:06.920 maybe you didn't even know you had. And so I 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:10.680 learned to harness that over years of professional sport. And 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:13.680 now if I want, I have it on access where 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:16.039 I can access it. If I want to tap into 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:19.080 something that's more powerful than maybe my current state, Like 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:21.040 I look forward to the day Ryan pushes you too far, 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:24.560 I'll come right over this. Ryan's gonna say something one 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:28.080 day and I'll come right over this studio. Count I 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:31.000 think we explore this in a couple of weeks. Sure, um, 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:33.800 it'd be a great episode. Speaking of episodes, though, last 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:38.080 week we did Life After Loss and Mitch's story was 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:42.000 exceptional and we've got so much an amazing feedback from 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:45.040 you guys reading the emails and the direct messages on Instagram. 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:48.200 The feedback from our community has been exceptional about Life 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:50.800 After Loss. How many people have related to it, uh, 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:53.480 and how many people are inspired by Mitch's story. And 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:56.760 this week we're gonna go into something close but not 0:05:56.839 --> 0:06:01.599 quite as severe maybe, but um, life their divorce and 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:03.120 we're gonna speak with a couple of people that have 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:06.320 a great divorce. Um, and I just want to ask 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:10.080 you guys, like, are you are your parents still married? No? 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:13.560 My my parents separated when I was four, and it 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:16.719 was pretty nasty. Um. Do you have a recollection of it? Yeah? Yeah, 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:19.279 it was bad for a long time. And it wasn't 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:21.760 until I think maybe I was in college, that they 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:24.440 actually something happened in the family and they started getting 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:26.440 like they started speaking again. Like, it was pretty bad 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:29.680 for years. It's almost like fourteen almost fifteen years you're 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:32.520 in college, so it's happened when you're four fifteen eighteen 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:35.080 years later they started speaking again. Yeah, And it was 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:37.440 like like if if they called, because he didn't have 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:39.840 cell phones back then, if if somebody called the house 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:41.560 to talk to the kids, the other one to be 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:44.240 like like it was like hold on, Like they wouldn't 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:48.720 even talk. Yeah, I mean it was pretty nasty for years. 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:51.880 Did you ever like have triggers or issues in your 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:55.800 own marriage from their divorce? No? Actually, I think I 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:57.839 learned a lot from going through all of that that 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:00.760 I was more aware of kind of stuff that they 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:03.359 did wrong and how they handled it, and think, so 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:05.279 I think it was I think it probably you know, 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:06.520 it was tough to go through, but I think it 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:08.800 educated me in the long run, and it also just 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:11.120 if so we for keeping score. It wasn't my fault. 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:14.360 My parents got divorce when I was in college. And 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:16.640 I'm not saying it was like unicorns and rainbows, but 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:19.720 I do have one of those situations where it's like 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:23.720 unicorns and rainbows, Like everybody has Christmas together, everybody has 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:26.920 Thanksgiving together, everybody's together all the time. Like there's times 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:31.760 when my mom has my dad his wife over, my 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:35.960 aum uncle on my dad's side, like at our house. Yeah, 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:41.040 everybody's pretty so it's a pretty amicable beyond. Like there 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:43.440 was a party my mom and dad had to go 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:46.880 to but my dad's wife couldn't go, and my mom 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:48.520 was like, oh, I gotta go be with daddy. He 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:50.760 doesn't have anybody to hang out with. Like everybody's just 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:54.760 really yeah. I had like the opposite, so my real quick. 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:58.040 My mom, you know, married my dad, and then her 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:00.240 brother fell in love with my dad's sister and they 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.000 got married. So it was like brother and sister married 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:05.559 brother and not really you know what I mean. Um. 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:08.640 So then when my parents split, my aunt and uncle didn't, 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:10.920 so it made it very awkward at family events. And 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:13.320 I actually had a birthday party where I insisted when 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:14.560 I was little, I was like, I really want mom 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:17.320 and dad here. Man, was that a mistake? That place 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:19.400 blew up? I ended up sitting on the curb with 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:24.760 my cousins. What what what birthday? Thirty? No, I'm kidding. 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:28.000 It was probably like yeah, probably like eight or something. 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:30.680 Are your parents both alive now? No? My father passed. 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:35.000 I'm sorry, I'm sorry. No thanks. Um did they ever 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:38.120 get along again? Yeah? Yeah, yeah so they Um, it 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:41.120 was around the time their first grandchild was born. Um, 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:43.920 that's when it kind of started. Was that your first child? 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:47.920 My brothers? Um? And uh, they started kind of. I 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:49.760 remember being at the hospital with both of them in 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:52.040 the waiting room waiting for my niece when she was born, 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:55.080 and I sarcastic, like I am I turning, I go, 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:56.760 is this the first time you guys were in the 0:08:56.880 --> 0:08:59.400 hospital together since I was born? Or like the waiting 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:01.680 room and they were just and it kind of kind 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:05.760 of broke the rotten Yeah, and um, and so it 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:07.880 started then and then and then over the years from 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:10.280 there they started getting along better, like they could then 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:15.040 go together again. Yeah. This that's It's such a fascinating 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:17.760 world to me because my parents just celebrated their forty 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:20.760 five and winning anniversary a couple of weeks ago, which 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:26.840 is amazing. And so I don't have experience with divorce. Um, 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:29.959 my wife's parents are divorced. They're both happily remarried. But 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:32.880 that's my closest experience with it. I have friends that 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:37.600 have had parents divorced, but I can't I cannot begin 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:41.280 to imagine what it does to a life at the 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:43.880 age of four, at the age of twenty, whatever age 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:48.760 you are where your parents divorced. I I just I 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:51.520 can't imagine what those emotions are. I think it messes 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:54.440 you up and then you're fine. I will say this. 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:57.559 When I was younger, I used to want that. We 0:09:57.640 --> 0:09:59.040 used to want them back together, and I used to 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:01.200 want that whole family, Christmas and the whole thing. And 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:02.920 as I got older and I saw who they were, 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:05.120 individual and stuff, I'm actually glad that they got to 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:07.200 I'm not glad that it was it went down the 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:09.640 way it went down, like kind of them not getting along. 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:12.559 But I think I'm better off in my life having 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:15.280 experience with them living their lives the way they wanted 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:17.600 to and not trying to make it work together. I'm 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:19.559 okay with it now. When I when it first happened, 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:22.600 I remember someone saying to me, I know, this seems 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:25.880 like the worst thing ever, and that you'll never get 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:29.040 over it. And he said in six months you won't remember. 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:33.360 And it wasn't quite that, but the words were pretty true, 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:38.280 like it's so major and then you, yeah, it's okay, 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:44.280 Well it's not my fault. Oh sorry. Kevin and I 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:47.880 did an interview the other day and Kevin said, it's 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:50.120 a hard conversation to have with somebody when you have 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:56.440 to say it's not me, it's you. I was just 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:59.439 laughing at us, like, oh buddy, we got we got 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:02.160 some things we need to talk about. But that's what 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:04.760 we're going to get into today. We have two uh 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:09.040 special guests that have a very happy and enjoyable now. 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:12.160 Now it's a process. I'll say that it's a process. 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:15.360 We'll get into their story after. But um, for people 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:17.720 that are divorced, there's hope that there is an amicable 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:21.719 cordial and even friendly life after divorce. And just so 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:25.000 you know, their divorce is not my fault either. Nobody's 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:34.320 keeping score here, buddy, Gavin will probably blame me. So 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:36.160 in the house with us right now we have Nikki 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:42.920 de Bartelow and Benjamin health one. Okay, come on, how 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:44.760 are you guys doing today? Thank you for coming in 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:47.240 to our studio. I appreciate that. How are you guys doing? 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:50.880 Thank you? Thank you for having us doing well. Everything's good. 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:53.920 Thank you for having us real studio, like real studio 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:57.560 is we're trying to We're trying to tap it at 0:11:57.600 --> 0:11:59.840 Gavin's house one day, but for the time, we'll have 0:11:59.880 --> 0:12:02.520 to get it cleaned first, like not not like a 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:05.080 garage podcast set up and you know, a couple of 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:08.040 mics and the computer. It's a really this is real. 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:10.520 This is why we all got paid because Aby blows 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:14.600 all our budget on the studio. We're paying the mortgage. Um, 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:16.440 So I want to bring in or I want to 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:18.719 get your guys this story now. Benjamin you want to 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:21.720 go first, Mickey, you want to go first. So so 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:25.000 it is. It's it's a journey into finding a different 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:27.679 kind of love and Nick and I were married, Uh, 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:32.720 seven years. Um, we had a beautiful son together. Um, 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:35.120 we end up getting a divorce, and it serves our 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:38.520 journey into how we got to where we are today 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:43.200 twelve years later. Um, she's remarried, I'm remarried. We have 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:46.000 this you know, lack of a better word, modern family. Um, 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:49.000 and it's it didn't just start off like that. There 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:50.920 was there's a there's a lot of intricacies and a 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:53.719 lot of as when people get divorced, a lot of 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:56.280 resentment and anger and fear and everything that goes through. 0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:59.200 But we were able to simply just put our put 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:01.680 ours on first was our sort of guiding light. And 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:05.000 every decision we made, whether that be romance, finance, all 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:09.600 that sort of things that spiral divorces. Um, we just 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:12.880 every decision had to answer that question. And that was 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:19.400 right from the start. No, no, hod okay. Right from 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:21.560 the start, it was dropping him off at each other's 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:23.840 house with like a babysitter and not seeing each other 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:27.240 and not talking to each other. And realized the only 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:32.720 thing we were doing was hurting him and eventually it 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:34.280 would have been I mean, it would have ended up 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:36.480 ruining his life if we would have kept on the 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:39.640 path that we were going on. And he was seven 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:43.000 at the time, he was three four, three and a half. 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:45.240 And you know, one of the things that I've blessed 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:47.720 about that we talked about in the book is is 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:50.280 and I say blessed because I had to go through 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:53.640 this as as with my own parents divorce, and it 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:57.080 was not the greatest divorce. And you know, I was 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:02.080 more or less weaponized. Uh, not so drastically, but you know, 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:03.640 we were sort of port in the middle of it. 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:06.760 And for a while there, I was filled with all 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:09.080 that stuff I talked about, and I was gonna, you know, 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:12.520 make her it was her fault. She everything ending in 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:14.319 the marriage was her fault. Everything, you know, just pointing 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:18.439 finger at her. And uh. I had hired this lawyer 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:22.200 who sort of sparked or at it, uh fire to 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:24.920 the to the fire, and was you know, he was 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:26.800 telling me what I wanted to hear. It's her fault, 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:28.440 will get her and all this stuff. And I spent 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:31.000 a bunch of money and he wrote up this, uh, 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:34.360 I guess action plan, you know, business plan if you will, 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:36.600 on like how to go after how we're gonna you know, 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:38.560 embarrass her and do all this and make it a 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:41.440 big public deal. Sound like a lawyer. Oh no, not 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:45.600 at all. Right, Yeah, he had no incentive to have 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:48.480 a long, ugly divorce. So uh. He had written this 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:51.640 thing up and I kept it and I didn't read it, 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:53.040 and there was something inside of me, and I don't 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:54.920 know what it was, but I kept in my backpack 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:58.120 that I always carry around for like six weeks and 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:00.400 I never opened it up. And for some I was 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:03.360 flying back from l a uh on a trip and 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:05.480 I opened it up and I read the first two pages. 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:08.560 And it was at that moment that you know, I 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:11.840 could see things clearly. It was like I had all 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:14.440 that other resembment and all that other stuff was gone, 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:16.960 and I saw that if I go down this route, 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:20.280 I'm gonna cause the same damage to my son that happened. 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:22.040 I'm gonna we're nick and I are going to rack 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:25.080 up a huge emotional bill and they can't pay for 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:28.800 it for something he had no choice. So at that point, um, 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:31.160 you know, I think Nicky was doing her own work 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:34.080 on herself and I was doing I I called her 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:35.840 and I said, look, we can't talk about this right now. 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:37.760 Like I have to do some things in my life 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:41.480 to get myself right before we can even, uh, you know, 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.200 start talking about the divorce. And and so I just 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:47.360 worked with some guy I knew, and we went through 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:51.440 and it was only about my part. We never we 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:53.720 never talked about what she did or what, you know, 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:56.960 her fault, and it was it was all about finding 0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:59.520 my you know, mistakes and the divorce and and what 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:01.600 I came to realize that it takes two to make it, 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:03.440 and it takes you to break it, and you no 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:05.560 matter what she had done, no matter what I, you know, did, 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:08.840 all I could focus on myself. So so at what point, 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:13.000 how many months or years after the separation is this 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:15.280 when you have this realization and you start doing this work. 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:18.320 It was about four months maybe, so it's it's relatively new, 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:21.840 it's relatively new. Maybe a little bit longer. I think 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:24.640 it was about four months, yeah, now maybe yeah, because 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:27.200 I know that I I decided to take three months. 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:30.800 It was sort of my goal was to take three 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:33.720 months and do what I needed to do and and 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:37.400 and at the end of the whole work is sort 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:40.360 of another burning bush or clarity moment. I like looked 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:41.800 at this stuff and I was like, you know what 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:44.600 I wouldn't want to be married to me either. You know, 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:48.120 I was a terrible, miserable person. And you know that 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:51.880 introspection or that you know, that that clarity of like, God, 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:54.880 you were just a bad, bad guy, you know, bad husband, 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:59.320 bad father, bad everything, and again nothing to what she did. 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:01.160 You know, it was and about her at that point, 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:03.840 it's about me. Kudos to you, man, because that's some 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:07.320 that's some hard self reflection, and that's some work that 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:09.000 I think a lot of people are not willing to do. 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:10.840 It doesn't it doesn't have to be even just in 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:13.280 a relationship or coming out of a relationship, just in 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:15.760 their own life. Like to take a reflection of who 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:17.720 I am as an individual, how I show up in 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:20.440 the world, and how does my presence and my actions 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:25.040 impact people around me, and then to look at yourself 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:27.400 and say, wow, I'm not proud of who I am. 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:29.120 This is not who I want to be. I own 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:31.960 these faults. Good for you, man. And then the other 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:34.680 part of that was forgiving myself. Right, So the first 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:36.800 step was to go through it and to look at 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:38.880 it and you know, come to that realization and then 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:42.399 forgive myself and then call Nikki. And I was getting 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:45.560 messed up when I say this, but all the time, 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:49.879 I'm really soft. Yeah, me too, good, Okay, I can 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:52.560 cry together. You got a shoulder. We're a little farther. 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:58.960 But so I called Nikki for coffee, and the first 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:00.959 thing I told her was I was sorry, you know, 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:03.679 and I loved her, and you know, I'm sorry for 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:05.919 everything I did to cause the end of our marriage. 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:08.880 And she then in turn apologized to me and told 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:10.680 me it's very hard for me to do right, which 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:12.879 we joked. I don't think it was the only time, 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:15.639 the only time, the only time we ever apologized to 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:18.680 each other. But but at that moment there was space 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:21.320 to move like. It wasn't about pointing finger at her. 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:24.120 It wasn't about pointing finger. That's what started, I mean, 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:26.640 that's what made this. That was a turning point for sure. 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:30.399 Was his apology to you, is what. Yes, that's what started. 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:35.760 Did it surprise you? He did surprise me because I 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:37.880 somehow knew about some of the other stuff he was doing, 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:43.040 like working on behind my back. N So I I 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:46.040 didn't know that. No, I did not. I did not. 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:49.600 I just happened to know enough people that told me 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:56.080 things right. But as long as we passed all that anything. 0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:00.920 So he he apologized to you sort of somewhat surprising. 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:02.680 Let's say, and how how does that make you feel? 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:04.840 That he he doesn't blame you, He doesn't. He's like, 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:07.840 I own this, this is my fault, and I just 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:09.720 want to say sorry. How does that make you feel? 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:13.080 Because I think that's a noble act. No, that's that 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:17.600 is what made me go, Okay, it's time, like it's 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:19.560 time for us to sit down and figure this out, 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:24.159 like we can't keep going down this path. Yeah, let 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:26.879 me ask this. So he apologized, said he did all 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:29.639 these things wrong, and then he said that you also apologize. 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:32.879 Now was that did you just apologize because hey, he 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:34.679 apologize or did you really feel like you had done 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:37.640 something that you could apologize for. No. I definitely did 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:42.720 things throughout the marriage that I you know, I was 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:44.280 a huge part. I was the other half of what 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:59.879 made this fail. So ye, man, yeah, sorry, that's what 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:05.679 I like that. I like that I did not spend 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:15.120