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Speaker 1: Hello, I'm welcome to say reproduction of I Heart Radio

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Speaker 1: and STEFF Media. I'm Annies and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and

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Speaker 1: we've got an interview for y'all today, Yes, with one

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Speaker 1: Steven Sadderfield. And as he likes to say, not that

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Speaker 1: Steven Saderfield, because there's a famous chef in Atlanta also

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Speaker 1: by the name of Steven Saderfield of Millery. He's not

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Speaker 1: that one. He's not that one. No, This Steven Sadderfield

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Speaker 1: is the host of a new I Heart Media podcast

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Speaker 1: called Point of Origin UM, one that our executive producer

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Speaker 1: Christopher is working on. Yeah, and it's really cool, like

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Speaker 1: the the in depth episode they did on Rice UM. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we think that you'll you'll dig it because some similarities there.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps Absolutely, it's a it's about it's about food and

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Speaker 1: travel and the point of origin and the point of

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Speaker 1: origin exactly. Yeah makes sense, uh huh. And Stephen is

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Speaker 1: just a delightful human person. He was a like Annie

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Speaker 1: and I. I I don't know if you can tell from

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Speaker 1: our podcasting style, but we're both fairly like anxious human people.

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Speaker 1: Our energy is usually like way up here. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: and Stephen was just so chill. It was so great

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Speaker 1: to have in the studio and uh he calls himself

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Speaker 1: a smalley in recovery, which I love. Yeah yeah, So,

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Speaker 1: um so we wanted to talk with him about this

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Speaker 1: podcast and what brought him to it and some of

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Speaker 1: the things that he's passionate about, uh in terms of

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Speaker 1: telling stories about food. So uh so here we go. Hi, Hi, Hello.

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Speaker 1: My name's Steven Saderfield and I am a co founder

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Speaker 1: of wet Stone Magazine, which is a magazine on food, origin, culture,

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Speaker 1: and anthropology. We also produce other kinds of media like

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Speaker 1: short films and a podcast on the I Heart Radio

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Speaker 1: podcast network called Point of Origin. Uh. Yeah, we were

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Speaker 1: excited when we saw the description for Point of Origin

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Speaker 1: come through. Uh. I heard is developing a bunch of

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Speaker 1: new food shows right now, but this one really caught

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Speaker 1: our eye because it's about traveling and and finding How

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Speaker 1: about you describe it or I mean, it sounds like

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Speaker 1: it's really trying to get to the the origin stories

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Speaker 1: of these foods that are so frequently misreported or just

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Speaker 1: unknown to the general population. Totally exactly that. Um, we

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Speaker 1: think that origin is really important, uh, not just for

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Speaker 1: Novelty's sake, But because it's really about helping us understand

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Speaker 1: the story of food. And we talk about this story

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Speaker 1: of food as the story of humanity, right, So, Um,

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Speaker 1: understanding origin stories around the things we eat and drink

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Speaker 1: helps us better understand who we are, who are neighbors are,

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Speaker 1: and hopefully built some kind of empathy through that understanding. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: those human connections. I mean, food is such an amazing

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Speaker 1: way to approach that because I mean, you know, as

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Speaker 1: irritated as I am sometimes that I have to eat

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Speaker 1: every day, it's like more than once, but no, food

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Speaker 1: is this beautiful thing that connects us totally. Um. And

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Speaker 1: it's just it's a really generous and generative way to

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Speaker 1: look at the world. Right So because it's the only

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Speaker 1: shared connection that we all have as human beings. It's

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Speaker 1: our only I find true common language. Um. And and

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Speaker 1: that we have the ability to talk about big ideas,

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Speaker 1: simple ideas, family memories, on and on. So I just

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Speaker 1: find it to be so generous as a way of

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Speaker 1: connecting with other people. Yeah, and um, and we tend

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Speaker 1: to be so disconnected from our food these days, Like

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Speaker 1: everything comes in a plastic package or in a plastic

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Speaker 1: package within a box or and we don't. Um, it's

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Speaker 1: really easy to not think about it. Yeah, well, I

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Speaker 1: mean very much by design to write like, it is

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Speaker 1: much easier to commoditize food than it is to perpetuate

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Speaker 1: a culture in which people are growing their own food

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Speaker 1: uh and preparing their own food. And you know, you

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Speaker 1: guys have probably done episodes on this around like everything

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Speaker 1: from supermarkets to refrigerators. You know, um that commodification is

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Speaker 1: no coincidence. But it wasn't so long ago when people

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Speaker 1: in our country raise their own food and prepare their

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Speaker 1: own food for each male. Yeah, was there like a

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Speaker 1: is there like a moment or maybe a set of

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Speaker 1: experiences where you sort of realized, Um, how problematic the

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Speaker 1: this larger commodification food industry is. Um, And like how

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Speaker 1: many stories aren't being told? Yeah, God, I don't. Um. Well,

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Speaker 1: let me back up. So my work, I feel, in

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Speaker 1: some way, has always uh tried to find a point

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Speaker 1: of irritation or agitation in the industry and trying to

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Speaker 1: use my work to exploit it or bring light to

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Speaker 1: it however you like. Um. So I my first real

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Speaker 1: vocation was as a smilier. So I went to culinary

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Speaker 1: school in Portland, Oregon and I worked in you know,

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Speaker 1: some fancy restaurants, and I became and that's really where

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Speaker 1: I learned through the notion of terroir um. That's how

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Speaker 1: I came to origin as a kind of organizing principle UM,

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Speaker 1: not just in agriculture, but a way to think about

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Speaker 1: the world. You know, it's it's really kind of a

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Speaker 1: profound UH lens to view the world when you think

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Speaker 1: about UM, an organizing principle of a sense of place

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Speaker 1: and all of the different environmental conditions and input that

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Speaker 1: ultimately UH will tell the story of you know whatever.

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Speaker 1: This food is UM or wine most commonly UM and

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Speaker 1: so UH after working in the wine industry for a while,

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Speaker 1: I started to look at the human element as part

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Speaker 1: of the ter war and started asking some difficult questions

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Speaker 1: about the South African wine industry, in particular in a

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Speaker 1: post apartheid industry and country. What does it What did

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Speaker 1: it mean for me as an African American some yea

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Speaker 1: uh to kind of be a part of this post

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Speaker 1: apartheid story. And was I really satisfied, um with my

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Speaker 1: role in that? And so I started a nonprofit organization

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Speaker 1: that really used wine as a catalyst for socioeconomic development

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Speaker 1: in South Africa, working with black and indigenous winemakers um

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Speaker 1: and started to make media really on their behalf in

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Speaker 1: that process, which is what brought me into to making media.

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Speaker 1: But um, I think also just for me, help me

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Speaker 1: understand that food or even wine, things that we look

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Speaker 1: at as esoteric or um, purely rooted and pleasure or

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Speaker 1: sustenance are actually like really uh profound, and you can

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Speaker 1: pursue things that are interesting to you and that you love,

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Speaker 1: but also um, you know, complicate things a bit for

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Speaker 1: the rest of the industry as well. Yeah. I feel

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Speaker 1: like about once a week at least, there's some moment

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Speaker 1: where we'll be researching something that seems relatively innocuous um,

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Speaker 1: and we go oh no, oh no humans and specifically

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Speaker 1: white people, Like it's usually like the white people moment,

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Speaker 1: it's just the end then white people. Yeah, well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think with that, it's because mostly the

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Speaker 1: story of food is it's a migration story, right, And

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Speaker 1: so you're talking about the migration of of people, of plants, animals,

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Speaker 1: and ideas or knowledge, right, And so we can't not

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Speaker 1: talk about colonization and talk about food because it explains

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Speaker 1: why we eat what we eat and how those things

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Speaker 1: got here. Um, and when you read about colonization and

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Speaker 1: the countries that we're doing the colonizing, then, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: if people are not prepared air to confront those truthful histories,

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Speaker 1: it can really cause like an identity crisis for people

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Speaker 1: or some uncertainty. And it's like keep your politics out

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Speaker 1: of my food kind of thing. But um, that's just

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Speaker 1: the way. That's the way that it is. And so,

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Speaker 1: as I was saying earlier, you know, food, even though

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Speaker 1: I think it's it is kind of difficult to confront

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Speaker 1: stuff and like really you know, blunt terms to say

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Speaker 1: like yeah, white people did some stuff stuff in the past.

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Speaker 1: From a historical lens, it's it's sort of a continuation

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Speaker 1: of an older story. I do think that food is

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Speaker 1: somehow allows us to talk about the past more honestly,

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Speaker 1: um than like something uh let's say, like, well, I

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Speaker 1: won't give any other examples, I'll stick to food, but

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Speaker 1: I would you say it gives us an opportunity to

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Speaker 1: confront it honestly. Yeah. Yeah, and and through something I

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Speaker 1: mean like I don't know, like it's I guess it

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Speaker 1: makes it a little bit of a softer blow that

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Speaker 1: at the end of a terrible episode you get to

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Speaker 1: kind of be like, the banana bread is so delicious. Yeah, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: I mean I think that was the you know, for

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Speaker 1: me with this wine nonprofit that I had, Uh, it

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Speaker 1: was really I felt a superpower that we had where

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Speaker 1: we would kind of invite people in to talk about

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Speaker 1: wine and we would do wine tastings and we'd say, oh,

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Speaker 1: everyone loves wine, and you know, it would be like

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Speaker 1: super educational, and then we would start talking about the

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Speaker 1: history of the South African wine industry and how I

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Speaker 1: was colonized by the Dutch, and then we started talking about,

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Speaker 1: you know, the subsequent agricultural systems that followed of disenfranchisement

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Speaker 1: and uh, indigenous people being kept on the land. And

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Speaker 1: so in the course of this wine tasting, you know,

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Speaker 1: we have gone from like this really aspirational one percent

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Speaker 1: at least a perception of it. Of course, um, that's

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Speaker 1: not at all true, um product, to like now a

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Speaker 1: really sobering conversation around the ways in which their decisions

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Speaker 1: as consumers um of wine, you know, still had an

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Speaker 1: impact and we're still part of this longer colonial story

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Speaker 1: and like that, I was always so impressed with people's

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Speaker 1: capacity to kind of stay with me, you know, along

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Speaker 1: that journey of like we're just here drinking wine, and

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Speaker 1: now we're talking about how this wine came to be.

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Speaker 1: And I have no doubt that if that same engagement

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Speaker 1: began with like I want to tell you about some

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Speaker 1: difficult history, it would just be like I wasn't there

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Speaker 1: has nothing to do with me, and I don't want

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Speaker 1: anything to do with that, like story to Sully my

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Speaker 1: wine experience. Yeah, we found that people are so generous

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Speaker 1: with us all the time, with with their stories and

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Speaker 1: with um. I think that people who are in the

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Speaker 1: industry are really looking for a way to talk about it,

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Speaker 1: for a reason to talk about it, to talk about

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Speaker 1: these stories, and to to get them out there. And

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Speaker 1: I think that there's a little bit of a stigma

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Speaker 1: against it, you know, like like keep keep your politics

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Speaker 1: out of my food, Like you know, don't make this,

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Speaker 1: but but it's inherently political, and especially if you're working

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Speaker 1: with that every day, if that's your mode of living,

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Speaker 1: then um, you know inherently I mean you said it right,

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Speaker 1: there's no way, uh, in which food cannot be politicized,

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Speaker 1: if for no other reason that we've already gotten regulations

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Speaker 1: around so it's like sorry, um. And you know when

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Speaker 1: you see the news and there's a chicken processing facility

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Speaker 1: and there's seven workers that are rounded up, and you

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Speaker 1: know if you read the backstory about the fights that

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Speaker 1: the workers were already engaged in with the owners of

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Speaker 1: that processing facility, Um, these politics are very much inherent. UM.

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Speaker 1: And so instead of and I think, actually I guess

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Speaker 1: on a slightly brighter note, in food media, I have

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Speaker 1: found that there this is an amazing kind of almost

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Speaker 1: renaissance period in terms of inclusion and a bliffman and

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Speaker 1: really just a broader intellectual curiosity around global food ways,

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Speaker 1: you know, from different narrators and orators. Certainly, like as

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Speaker 1: someone who publishes an independent magazine, other magazine editors who

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Speaker 1: are getting opportunities are are not at all the same

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Speaker 1: as those of even ten years ago, maybe five years ago. UM.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of the reasons that I even start

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Speaker 1: at Wetstone, you know, I really felt like there was

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Speaker 1: a redundancy and subject matter in food media. It was

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Speaker 1: very much about chefs and restaurants and rankings and reviews,

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Speaker 1: and most of the chefs and restaurants and rankings and

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Speaker 1: reviews were all of the similar ilk they went to

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Speaker 1: the same culinary schools. What cupcakes, they're right now exactly.

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Speaker 1: And so just like the that felt so tedious and um,

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Speaker 1: you know, looking at global food ways felt less possible

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Speaker 1: not that long ago. And now I think because of

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Speaker 1: the spread of information and the technology that we have

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Speaker 1: and travel of course, right, we again kind of a

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Speaker 1: an updated migration story for us because we are still moving.

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Speaker 1: We are still part of the story of food. You know,

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Speaker 1: we're still moving ideas and we are migrating and visiting

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Speaker 1: and sharing information. Um. And so the story of food

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Speaker 1: is changing and I think, especially here in the US, um,

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Speaker 1: becoming a more diverse and more interesting story. Absolutely. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's so, that's so interesting. I've I've never thought about

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Speaker 1: the Internet as being a form of migration, as being

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Speaker 1: parallel to the you know, widespread migration of ideas that

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Speaker 1: we're happening in the past due to these like like

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Speaker 1: kind of terrible money related um, interests of greed. But

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Speaker 1: but now yeah, we can we can have we can

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Speaker 1: have interplay between these cultures that there never has been before. Totally. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think you see it very often in on restaurant

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Speaker 1: menus or tasting menus. You know, you'll see one chef, uh,

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Speaker 1: let's just say for the sake of conversation in Copenhagen

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Speaker 1: Um and then all of a sudden, you know, one

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Speaker 1: style of plating which the first time you see it

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Speaker 1: on let's just say Instagram, you know it looks really

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Speaker 1: like otherworldly or you haven't seen it before, or what

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Speaker 1: are these ingredients, or oh, that's an interesting use of

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Speaker 1: negative space on the plate. And the next thing you know,

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Speaker 1: there's like restaurants all over Europe and all over the

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Speaker 1: US who are now kind of mimicking this same style

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Speaker 1: or same ingredients. And obviously there's some potential pitfalls within there,

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Speaker 1: but I think that there's enough inherent curiosity and imagination

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Speaker 1: and really again technique, Like I think the skill set

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Speaker 1: even of a lot of young chefs because of the

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Speaker 1: amount of information that they've been able to absorb. You know,

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Speaker 1: you used to have to go to library, Like when

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Speaker 1: even when I got into food, I was in culinary

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Speaker 1: school in Portland's you know, I was going to like

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Speaker 1: Powell's books and reading about Charlie Trotter, you know, for

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Speaker 1: front of house line service, and like when you think

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Speaker 1: about YouTube and all I mean using YouTube as its

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Speaker 1: own kind of search engine. Um, the amount of information

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Speaker 1: is just staggering. So um, the consumer is more sophisticated,

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Speaker 1: and uh, I think overall it'll be beneficial. Oh gosh,

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Speaker 1: I hope. So while there's so many other terrible things

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Speaker 1: about the Internet, the least it can do for us

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Speaker 1: make us more more sophisticated consumers. Absolutely. Yeah. The flip

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Speaker 1: side to YouTube being a rich and hive of scumm

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Speaker 1: and villainy, maybe it can teach us to cook a

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Speaker 1: little bit better. We have some more for you listeners,

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Speaker 1: but first we have a quick break for word from

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Speaker 1: our sponsor. We're back, Thank you sponsor. Let's get back

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Speaker 1: into the interview. So, so you've gotten to to speak

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Speaker 1: to some really inspiring people about some really really amazing stories.

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Speaker 1: Do you do you have any Do you have any

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, without wanting to to to be

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Speaker 1: like so just you know, no one needs to go

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Speaker 1: listen to your podcast or or subscribe to the magazine

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Speaker 1: or anything like that, But do you do you have

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Speaker 1: any favorites or any like weird ones or any conflicting ones,

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Speaker 1: anything that stands out? Um, let me think there's some

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Speaker 1: standout stories. UM. We just did a two part series

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Speaker 1: on rice. Uh so we called it Rice and Resilience UM,

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Speaker 1: and it was really kind of about rice across cultures

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Speaker 1: and countries, UM, how formative it is not only as

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Speaker 1: a staple food but as a means of cultural identity.

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Speaker 1: And so one of the episodes, I think it was

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Speaker 1: our fifth, our fourth one, UM, we did with a

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Speaker 1: woman in California in the Central Valley named Robin Cooda,

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Speaker 1: and she has a Coda Family Farms, which her family

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Speaker 1: it's been in her family for over a hundred years

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Speaker 1: through Japanese internment. And so she talks about you know,

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Speaker 1: her her grandfather, how he came to acquire the farm, UM,

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Speaker 1: his role as innovating farmer, you know, in the beginning

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Speaker 1: of the twentieth century, and basically losing the land and

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Speaker 1: her family fighting to get it back. Extremely moving story.

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Speaker 1: And then we also talked to my friend B. J. Dennis,

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Speaker 1: who is a chef in caterer in South Carolina. He's

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Speaker 1: also kind of a uh he's Gala Gichi, so he

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Speaker 1: is a historian but also just a scholar of of

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Speaker 1: Gala Guichi foodway. So we talked to him about the

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Speaker 1: Purlu and some of those h descendants, so to speak

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Speaker 1: of the Carolina gold rice tradition. Um, so that was

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Speaker 1: really cool. We we we learned about minomn which is a

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Speaker 1: native American rice which grows on the lakes, the Great

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Speaker 1: Lakes Districts in Michigan. So it's just a really simple

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Speaker 1: example of how you know, these single subjects across the world. Um,

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Speaker 1: there's so many different derivative stories, but they're also so

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Speaker 1: much that is the same in those stories too. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: yeah right, Rice was right. Rice was a big one.

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Speaker 1: We we tried to do a single episode about that

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Speaker 1: just exactly. We were just like, oh no, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean yeah, Claborima sativa like you know, Africa, Asia, like

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Speaker 1: entire continents. But then there's offsprings and again you know,

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Speaker 1: the even the migration of these crops and the knowledge

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Speaker 1: of farming. Um, it's just so so endless. It's such

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Speaker 1: a big topic. That's when I learned about before physics,

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Speaker 1: which is a like BC b C. There's BP before

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Speaker 1: physics that some scientists use, and there was a paper

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Speaker 1: about rice that had BP, and I was like, don't

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Speaker 1: give me another confusing thing. I've got to go look

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Speaker 1: up now. I did not know about the BP. That

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Speaker 1: was my first experience with it. Wow, it's kind of

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Speaker 1: like Rice broke the brain of science too. We've got

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Speaker 1: to come up with another way to mark time. It's true. Um.

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Speaker 1: So I was reading some of the stuff your work online, UM,

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Speaker 1: and I loved it, especially like you made me want

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Speaker 1: like pizza and beer so big that you succeeded. If

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Speaker 1: that was your goal, you succeeded. So how did you

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Speaker 1: go from you went to culinary school? Like, what did

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Speaker 1: path did you think you're going to take? How did

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Speaker 1: you go from smallier to recovering small to writing and

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Speaker 1: out podcast magazine? Yeah? Um, certainly not the plan at all.

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Speaker 1: I was in culinary school in Portland and the early

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Speaker 1: two thousands, so two thousand three, which was a very

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Speaker 1: exciting time to be in Portland. It was kind of

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Speaker 1: when in Portland was shaping its own identity as a

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Speaker 1: culinary capital ish um, you know, outside of New York

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Speaker 1: and San Francisco. Um with you know, it was as

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Speaker 1: it was kind of the creator of the like tatted,

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Speaker 1: badass chef, like hipster aesthetic, like I had a front

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Speaker 1: receipt for all that, um, but also kind of a

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Speaker 1: real updating and effortless updating of like contemporary dining culture,

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Speaker 1: which is to say, better ingredients um, more care for

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Speaker 1: local ingredients UM, and also less formal dining a lot

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Speaker 1: of folks. I mean, this is happening in New York too,

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Speaker 1: but I really feel Portland was kind of the one

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Speaker 1: driving this, this kind of aesthetic UM. And so I

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Speaker 1: learned a lot. And of course, you know, being in Oregon,

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Speaker 1: it means I was in the Willamette Valley UM, which

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Speaker 1: is one of the world's great wine regions. It still is,

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, some of the best wine on Earth

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Speaker 1: comes from the Willlamt Valley. And so I had a

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Speaker 1: chance to develop a relationship to nature that I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure I could have if I I would have gone

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Speaker 1: to culinary school in Atlanta, for instance, um, where I'm from.

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Speaker 1: So no no shade on Atlanta. UM. But you know,

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Speaker 1: I didn't really know what I didn't know how much

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Speaker 1: I didn't know UM until the first time I went

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Speaker 1: into a vineyard and had a really um intense epiphany

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Speaker 1: around wine as agriculture, you know, as an agrarian thing. UM.

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Speaker 1: And then I started to think about everything in terms

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Speaker 1: of agriculture. UM. And honestly, I haven't really stopped thinking

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Speaker 1: about that UM since And I was nineteen years old

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Speaker 1: at the time, and so I thought probably I would

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Speaker 1: maybe own a restaurant. UH one day. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: be a chef for a while. I did a lot

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Speaker 1: of cooking on the side to UM. But it was

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Speaker 1: so hard, you know. I mean I knew enough to

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Speaker 1: know that like if given the choice of drinking or

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Speaker 1: like you know, cooking food for hours at a time,

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Speaker 1: the amount of money like sorry, guys, I'll cook from

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Speaker 1: my friends and family at home. UM. So yeah, I

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Speaker 1: pretty quickly moved into like front of house restaurant operation

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Speaker 1: stuff and wine stuff. And you know you heard a

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Speaker 1: little a bit about the detour in South Africa and UM,

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Speaker 1: I think you know media right now, as I alluded to,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's the industry is so different. UM. I

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Speaker 1: could have never produced or even had a vision of

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Speaker 1: kind of publishing my own magazine or having my own

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Speaker 1: media company or certainly not podcasting. UM. And also the

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Speaker 1: way that people regarded food and I guess that was

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Speaker 1: like fifteen years ago, was so different. You know, it

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Speaker 1: was like still kind of an esoteric field. Was scarcely

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Speaker 1: looked at as a career, a viable career choice. Um,

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Speaker 1: And that's really been one of the most amazing things

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Speaker 1: to me over the last decade is to see how

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Speaker 1: people have really centered food and culinary arts as part

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Speaker 1: of like broader popular culture. Yeah, it was still really

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Speaker 1: like inapproachable for like we were in this kind of

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Speaker 1: like dark age between like the Julia Childs of the

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Speaker 1: world and um and the modern food TV personalities. Could

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Speaker 1: you could you talk a little bit about what you

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Speaker 1: ate growing up and why you decided to go into

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Speaker 1: the culinary field. Yeah, well, I, um, you know, my

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Speaker 1: eating growing up was really good. I think on the

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Speaker 1: whole my dad cooked for us, so I did grow

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Speaker 1: up with the image of a man in the kitchen,

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Speaker 1: which I think matters. And I you know, we made

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Speaker 1: southern food, like so I'm fifth generation, as I said,

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Speaker 1: so macaroni and cheese and collards and rice. But you know,

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Speaker 1: my parents are also middle class working people, so there

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Speaker 1: is a lot of like hybrid dinners with stuff from

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Speaker 1: cans and cardboard boxes to um. But I do remember

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Speaker 1: like on the weekends, my dad would always make us

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Speaker 1: a breakfast from scratch of pancakes, and eggs and bacon.

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Speaker 1: So my dad I love cooking. He's really good at

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Speaker 1: smoking meats and barbecuing, and so for all family functions,

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Speaker 1: our house was always kind of the hq um for

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Speaker 1: holiday functions. So I think there probably was something in there,

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Speaker 1: you know, around being convivial and entertaining as much as

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Speaker 1: you know cooking. He also and very classic fashion of

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Speaker 1: the South, he would cook at church as well, so

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Speaker 1: like I have memories of my dad frying fish and

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Speaker 1: chicken for like hundreds of people. Um, and so yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think and that those are my That is kind

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Speaker 1: of what brought me to food ultimately, is being able

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Speaker 1: to think about it as a thing to share you

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Speaker 1: with other people. M Yeah, I was thinking about that

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Speaker 1: the other day too, because my mom always she does

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Speaker 1: the big church meals. And when it comes to thinking

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Speaker 1: about people coming together and like you did with the wine,

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Speaker 1: having these kind of more political conversations, like having that

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Speaker 1: thing to come together and share, I think in seeing

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Speaker 1: people with different political views kind of discuss and see all,

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Speaker 1: this is a person too, and I don't have to

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Speaker 1: just kind of paint them as I don't know them,

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Speaker 1: are they're different than me? Yeah, it's quite true. I

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Speaker 1: Mean one of my biggest annoyances in life is because

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Speaker 1: I've been living in California, you know, for the last

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Speaker 1: ten years, and Californians who have been to every corner

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Speaker 1: of the earth, to freaking Fiji, any corner, and you know,

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Speaker 1: they talk about the South in these terms of like

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Speaker 1: like gas you know, like, oh, you're from You're from Georgia.

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Speaker 1: What is it like? I'm like, you, guys, you ought

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Speaker 1: to be ashamed, you know, like the way that you're

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Speaker 1: just telling on yourself. Because the truth of the matter is,

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Speaker 1: having lived in allegedly the most progressive places in the country, Portland,

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Speaker 1: San Francisco, UM, Southerners have a lot more figured out

428
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: in the way of how to deal with each other

429
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: on a human level. And I'm talking about in black

430
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: and white terms, UM, than people in California or or

431
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: Portland's ever have. And the reason for that is because

432
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: in the South we have even post segregation, and and

433
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: even you know, leading up to segregation, we have always

434
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: had black people and white people in the South living

435
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 1: next door to each other. And even though at different

436
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: points in that history a lot of those white folks

437
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: would have preferred for that not to be the case.

438
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,959
Speaker 1: It was still the case, and you know, I really

439
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 1: think that, um, whatever my own beliefs are or nonbeliefs

440
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: about the church or certainly my politics are very divergent,

441
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: you know, from the whole of the state of Georgia

442
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: and our governor. But when I'm here, I see a

443
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: kind of civility and decency in the way that black

444
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: people and white people. Obviously there's more than that, but

445
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: that's what we're talking about, and that's kind of what

446
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:47,479
Speaker 1: the insinuation is on. People in California or Portlands are

447
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: asking me like for you, you know, and so the

448
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:55,479
Speaker 1: implication is that the South is just a bunch of

449
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: toothless white people who vote for Donald Trump. And I'm like,

450
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: first of while, you're erasing an entire history, like the

451
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: reason that I'm saying that I've fifth generation Atlanta, because

452
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: I'm saying that my family has been here for two

453
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: hundred years almost like my I'm I am a patriot,

454
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 1: you know, I'm an American more so than many of

455
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: the people who would be looking at me as anything

456
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: other than that, right, and so I really feel strongly

457
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: in not like defending the South in any way, but

458
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: any time people from allegedly liberal parts of the country. UM,

459
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: have really fast and flippant opinions about the South. I

460
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: always like to ask them, when's the last time you

461
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 1: were there? And it's shocking how few times that they've

462
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: actually been able to say, oh, I've I've been there,

463
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: not to mention recently, but ever been there at all? Um.

464
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: So I feel, yeah, I you know, the South has

465
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: its own complications, but I'm really really glad um that

466
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: I'm from here, and I would as much as I've

467
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: traveled and the as much as I love the places

468
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: that I have lived in, those are wonderful cities. I

469
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: would not trade the experience of really facing that kind

470
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:19,239
Speaker 1: of black and white dichotomy because it really informed who

471
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: I am. It informed this work with the nonprofit that

472
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: I was doing, and it really helps me. You know,

473
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: when I am critical about my neighbors right like I,

474
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: I feel like I have some authority on that. And

475
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: it's so easy for people in other places to say

476
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: how they would respond because their politics or their ideas

477
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: about who they are really are not being challenged. In practice. Yeah,

478
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 1: we have to deal with it here, um, And I

479
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: feel I feel really lucky I've been here. For about

480
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: fourteen or fifteen years now. But I'm originally from northern

481
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: Ohio and the New Jersey part of South Florida, and

482
00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: so like, coming here with such a revelation, I was like, oh, okay,

483
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: cool um and but but it opened my eyes to

484
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: so many different modes of so many different food ways,

485
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: and so many different modes of communication amongst those food waves. Um,

486
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's Atlanta is a beautiful city. I'm like, oh,

487
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: I guess I live here now. Yeah. I I was

488
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: like the only liberal person in a very small town

489
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 1: in Georgia, and I didn't realize how much I internalized

490
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: this kind of like the South is a terrible place

491
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 1: because I tried to get rid of my accent. I

492
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: was ashamed to tell people I was from the South.

493
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 1: And it was just because I had that kind of

494
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: like knee jerk reaction that people have from outside of

495
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: the United States. And I'm glad that I've gotten over that,

496
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: and I have. I've traveled a lot, and I've been

497
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: to a lot of other places now and I still

498
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: feel like, oh, this is a really I was lucky

499
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 1: to be around in this. Once I got to Atlanta,

500
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh wow, there's so much good

501
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: food and there's so much, so much diversity in a

502
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: way that I don't frequently experience. Yeah, I agree. So

503
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 1: we we love you Atlanta as complicated. Yes, yes, it

504
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 1: would be real nice if we could work our elections out.

505
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: And we have a little bit more of this interview left,

506
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: but first we've got one more quick break for a

507
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor,

508
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 1: and back to the interview. So, um, you've written on

509
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 1: several things that we've done episodes on, like food, desserts, um,

510
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: and we recently did one on food waste. How do

511
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 1: you how do you choose your topics? How do you

512
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 1: well these days, I'm I'm writing less than ever because

513
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: podcasting is hard. Yeah everybody, Yeah, that's I think that's

514
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: been the big reveal for me. And you know is that, um,

515
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: podcasting is just tons of writing. Um. So, but I think,

516
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: you know, I really have just always thought about food

517
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:22,760
Speaker 1: really broadly. You know, it makes sense in my brain

518
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: to talk about food access in the same way it

519
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: makes sense to talk about food waste, because if you

520
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 1: pay attention to food, then you know these are really

521
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: like enormous issues that are facing the country in the

522
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: world right now, and so I don't I've never felt

523
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 1: like I had the luxury to just pick and choose

524
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: the parts of food or alcohol as it were, that

525
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,359
Speaker 1: I wanted to pay attention to. And so if you

526
00:35:55,400 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: want to write really smart criticism about chefs and restaurant trends,

527
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: then you ought to also be able to write with

528
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 1: the same authority and insight on the you know, food politics,

529
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 1: um and and the matters of food politics that will

530
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: affect you your community in the world around you and um.

531
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: You know, for writers that aren't able to do that,

532
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 1: I think like there's there's some missing context, um and

533
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,399
Speaker 1: how far they can really take us, um in our

534
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: education around food. Yeah, I saw on your Twitter you've

535
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: been talking about orange wine. Oh yeah, there's there's a

536
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: little dust up and um in the wine world. It's

537
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: just so silly. I don't fully understand it, but it's

538
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 1: it's totally a thing. Um. So there was a New

539
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 1: Yorker are article that came out a couple of weeks ago.

540
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 1: The gentleman who wrote the article basically had a bad

541
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: experience with orange wine, and he used his platform at

542
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 1: The New Yorker too tell the world. I had a

543
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: bad experience with orange wine, which I felt was kind

544
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: of beneath the New Yorker as a subscriber, um and

545
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 1: a big fan of most let me just say that, UM,

546
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: it just seemed really weird because obviously the reason it

547
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: was being written about is because it's topical thing. It

548
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 1: is part of the natural wine conversation. Perhaps natural wine

549
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 1: is even derivative of the orange wine trend. And so

550
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: you know, of course I'm looking with great interest when

551
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 1: The New Yorker decides to write about anything that I'm

552
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: interested in. Up this particular article was about absolutely nothing.

553
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: And it's the wrong topic to kind of treat flippantly,

554
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: because for whatever reason, people are so passionate about natural

555
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 1: wine and about orange wine, and so when you say

556
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,280
Speaker 1: you don't like orange wine, it is like a personal

557
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: affront two legions of people who drink the wine or

558
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 1: who are in the industry. And so my voice was

559
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: one of many that day or the couple of days

560
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,720
Speaker 1: after that article that was just saying, like, what the hell, dude,

561
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 1: what was that article? But yeah, and it's also it's

562
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 1: so silly to be dismissive about an entire category of

563
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 1: product based on like you're like, oh, man, I hate

564
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: pizza because I had to to Tinos and it was shite,

565
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 1: Like what I know, it made no sense um, And

566
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 1: I also felt like, you know, it was a missed opportunity.

567
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: The reason that I feel so earlier or I guess

568
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 1: that was last last year we released a short film

569
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 1: from the Republic of Georgia UM called Wild Grapes Whetstone

570
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: did and Um, I went to the Republic of Georgia.

571
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: I've been twice. Can't recommend it enough, which is as

572
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: far as we know, where the origins of viticulture begin.

573
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: Because I am a self proclaimed origin forager, I care

574
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 1: a lot about wine, so it really felt important to

575
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: me to go see like the oldest vineyards in the

576
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: world and where it all came from. And so we

577
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: made a film, UM, really beautiful film with this grower

578
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 1: who named Georgie, and he is in this village um,

579
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 1: which we think is where the oldest vineyards in the

580
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,839
Speaker 1: world are. And these a lot of the indigenous one

581
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: of hundreds of indigenous grape varieties to Georgia or destroyed

582
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 1: during the Ottoman occupation and many centuries later during the

583
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: Soviet occupation, and so it's kind of a dark part

584
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 1: of the history is when people occupy Georgia, one of

585
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 1: the things that they do is attack their vineyards because

586
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 1: it's such a important part of their cultural history and identity.

587
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:14,879
Speaker 1: So it's a really demeaning thing that happens. And so

588
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 1: this guy Georgie, who's probably in his mid thirties, for

589
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 1: the last eight years or so, has been going around

590
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:24,320
Speaker 1: the village and climbing trees and mountains and finding these

591
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 1: old grape vines and vines that were thought to have

592
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: been extinct and then bringing them back as um, you know,

593
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: they were hundreds of years ago. So we made a

594
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 1: film about this guy, and in the process you learn

595
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: that this white wine grape cuts a telly is this

596
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,879
Speaker 1: ubiquitous white wine grape in Georgia, and literally everyone makes

597
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: it in their backyard and essentially it's a skin contact

598
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: white wine that's just what an orange wine is. And

599
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 1: so you you have it for every meal, and it's

600
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: oh common that it's like it would be no different

601
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: than someone offering you a glass of water, you know,

602
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: when you when you go to their home. And so

603
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 1: I really felt like this article missed an awesome opportunity

604
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 1: to get to connect this, you know, eight thousand year

605
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 1: history and something that they're framing as a trend story

606
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: is actually how wine has been made without interruption in

607
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: this place for eight thousand years. And instead, what he

608
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:36,280
Speaker 1: really ended up doing was talking about a gentrification story,

609
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,919
Speaker 1: if anything, that he's in some hipster restaurant and he's

610
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: ordered some wine that he didn't like and in the conclusion,

611
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 1: orange wine is for dummies. He didn't say that, but

612
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 1: still that's how it felt. Creative license. Um so yeah,

613
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 1: that was um. Then I was out there tweeting about it.

614
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 1: I enjoyed. I didn't know this was a thing, so

615
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 1: I learned a lot. People really care. Yeah, yeah, oh

616
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 1: gay for people caring on Twitter. It's one of those

617
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 1: other things. It's a double edged sword. Yeah. I only

618
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 1: try to speak up on the really important matters like

619
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 1: orange wine. I stay out of the weeds on everything.

620
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 1: I'm willing to show up for that. Yeah, is there

621
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,359
Speaker 1: what do you have on the horizon other than like this,

622
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: podcasting trips planned or anything good questions? Right now, we're

623
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 1: working on a couple of projects that are about the

624
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 1: the migration story of African people. Um So, this year

625
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:55,399
Speaker 1: marks the four year anniversary, if we think we can

626
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 1: call it that, of the arrival of the very first

627
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 1: slave person UM in this country. And so some of

628
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,320
Speaker 1: the work that we're starting to do is looking more

629
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:12,280
Speaker 1: closely at the story of the food of the African

630
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 1: diaspora over the four hundred year period, because you know,

631
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 1: when you get into the Caribbeans, West Indies, Brazil, Texas,

632
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: Southeast UM, those stories are so different and those traditions

633
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 1: are so distinctive for all those places, but it is

634
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: all derivative of the continent. So we're working on some

635
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,879
Speaker 1: film projects that are looking at that, uh. And then

636
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: we have our fifth volume of Whetstone and there will

637
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 1: be plenty to see and talk about in that next one. Awesome, awesome, Yeah.

638
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 1: Is there anything that we haven't asked you about that

639
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 1: you are that's just burning on your mind that you

640
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 1: really want to say into a microphone now? Just that

641
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: UM Savor podcast is awesome and that I'm so honored

642
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 1: to be on the show. I love how rigorous you

643
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 1: guys are about learning about where food comes from. You know,

644
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 1: ultimately it's uh, it's the same work that inspires me.

645
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: So I love your show and thanks for having me on.

646
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 1: We're so thrilled. I think in the email, I was like,

647
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 1: what like, come on, absolutely, um, where where can people

648
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: find you? You can find me on the Instagram at

649
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: wet Stone Magazine. So, um, wet Stone is w h

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00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: E T S T O n E which it's a

651
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:43,959
Speaker 1: sharpening stone that could be episode for you guys, wet Stone.

652
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 1: There's so much there wet Stone Magazine. And then I'm

653
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 1: at I saw Steven um which is s T E

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00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 1: p h g N And both wet Stone Magazine and

655
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 1: I saw Stephen are all over the internet. Yes, and

656
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:06,839
Speaker 1: also can check out the podcast oh of course from

657
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,919
Speaker 1: the I Heart Studios. Yes, and um, I'm the house

658
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:13,839
Speaker 1: of the Point of Origin podcasts, which you can listen

659
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 1: to every Thursday everywhere that fine podcasts are found. That's right,

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00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 1: Thanks for filling that crucial party. We're awesome, Thank you

661
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 1: so much, thank you. Yeah, delight, we've arrived at the

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00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,399
Speaker 1: end of this our interview with Steven Satterfield. We hope

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00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: that you found it as soothing and informative and just

664
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:43,880
Speaker 1: wonderful as we did. Yes, oh absolutely, um yeah, and

665
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: if you want to check out the Point of Origin podcast,

666
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:50,280
Speaker 1: um it is as savor is on all those places

667
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 1: that we say at the end of every show, absolutely

668
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 1: same places. I yeah, I think you should check it

669
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:01,320
Speaker 1: out because, um, they're doing great work up there. Stephen

670
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:07,479
Speaker 1: was so so nice and I appreciated that he he

671
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,359
Speaker 1: spoke highly of our show too. Oh I know, it's

672
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 1: like I'm going to melt into this chick. It was like,

673
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: you've listened to us. Why would anyone ever tell that?

674
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 1: But keep listening? List but please uh yeah, And you

675
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 1: can also email us on top of listening to the show. Yes,

676
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 1: our email is Hello at savor pod dot com. Or

677
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 1: reach out to us on social media. We are on Instagram, Twitter,

678
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:37,360
Speaker 1: and Facebook, all three places at savor Pod. We do

679
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: hope to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeart

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00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 1: Radio and Stuff Media. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,

681
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 1: you can visit the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or

682
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always

683
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks

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00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 1: to you for listening, and we hope that lots more

685
00:46:53,200 --> 00:47:00,120
Speaker 1: good things are coming your way. E