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Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello everybody, and welcome to Too Much Information, the show

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Speaker 2: that brings you the secret histories and little known fascinating

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Speaker 2: facts and figures behind your favorite movies, music, TV shows

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Speaker 2: and more. We are your two vegans of ars Similitude,

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Speaker 2: your DJs of the deep dive, your archival recordings of

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Speaker 2: ancient recitations. That one was a stretch And I'm not vegan.

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Speaker 2: I'm Alex Heigel and I'm Jordan run Talking.

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Speaker 1: Wow you really you really tried for that one?

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Speaker 2: You really stroke? Yeah? You know.

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Speaker 1: I sometimes I work up the endity to use the

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Speaker 1: phrase that just came in them of an actular that eight.

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Speaker 2: Am I using that promptly? It sounds slightly obscene. Did

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Speaker 2: I leave no crumbs? I'm actually eating a cookie for breakfast.

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Speaker 2: Oh I feel really bad now. Is leaving no crumbs?

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Speaker 2: Is that an expression? Yeah? I don't know that. It's

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Speaker 2: an off branch of they ate. I ate the whole thing,

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Speaker 2: you know?

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Speaker 1: Oh, I see, I didn't even I don't know the context.

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Speaker 2: You gotta be on Twitter more. That's how I get

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Speaker 2: all this stuff. People say it's TikTok, but drag race

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Speaker 2: Twitter today Jordan. We are talking about one of the

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Speaker 2: highest selling and certainly most sold out records of all time,

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Speaker 2: Moby's Play, which turned twenty five this year. Of course,

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Speaker 2: I remember this record because it was everywhere. You could

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Speaker 2: not escape it. It was in stores, movies, TV shows,

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Speaker 2: multiple commercials. You could literally not escape it. You know.

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Speaker 2: My biggest memory of this is Natural Blues because Via

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Speaker 2: Hallward's voice is so like haunting, and he didn't really

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Speaker 2: do anything other than putting a bunch of synths around it. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: we'll get into the ethics of all this, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: I just remember that song and that video, and I

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Speaker 2: didn't even know what sampling really was, so I was like,

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Speaker 2: I assumed it was a live singer, you know, And

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Speaker 2: I was wrong, obviously, But I just remember being so

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Speaker 2: taken with her voice. You know. When I got to

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Speaker 2: college and started diving into like pre war blues and

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Speaker 2: folk music and particularly the work of Alan Lomax, you know,

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Speaker 2: that never left me. And I saw this anniversary coming up,

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Speaker 2: and not out of any particular love of the Mobster

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Speaker 2: for this album, I pitched this to you because I'm

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Speaker 2: going to backdoor it an enormous chunk of information about

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Speaker 2: celebrated folklores and ethnic musicologist Alan Lomax into the middle

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Speaker 2: of this episode. That's right, folks, deal with it. I'm

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Speaker 2: going to talk about Alan Lomax for a while and

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Speaker 2: completely leave the world of MOBI behind. So I don't know,

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Speaker 2: spoilers skip around. Maybe we can put time stamps in

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Speaker 2: if people don't care about Alan Lomax. But he's more

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Speaker 2: interesting than Moby by a damn site, I'll tell you

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Speaker 2: that much.

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Speaker 1: I have to be honest, when you first mentioned doing

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Speaker 1: this album, I was absolutely baffled, and I actually thought

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Speaker 1: you were messing with me. I mean it was like,

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Speaker 1: you know, how about we do an episode on pure Moods,

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Speaker 1: which which we should. We probably should that. Actually that

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Speaker 1: compilation means an awful lot to a lot of people

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Speaker 1: who are dear to me, so I think that could

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Speaker 1: also do quite well. You know, in retrospect, maybe with

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Speaker 1: this should have been a pure Moods episode.

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Speaker 2: We just had a long tangent because it isn't Porcelain

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Speaker 2: on that. I think Porcelain's are probably yeah, you know,

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Speaker 2: in fairness, Sorry, I got to finish chewing before I talk.

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Speaker 2: I heard some chewing on the other episode, and that's

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Speaker 2: so I angry with myself.

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Speaker 1: As you're the fact that producer, I should probably give

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Speaker 1: you hands up. I'm sorry chewing grabbing the mic and

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Speaker 1: doing this as you talk typing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I yeah, but this is when I do when

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Speaker 2: I grab the mic. This is for effect, you know.

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Speaker 1: No, there's a lot of where you get so excited

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Speaker 1: where you wrap the bike and do this and like

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Speaker 1: I hear the like and I try to cut herround it,

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Speaker 1: but it's like it's really like endearing.

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Speaker 2: So I never want to tell you about it. But

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Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty two episodes, I thought, I thought,

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Speaker 2: maybe this time I'll tell him. No, I I have

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Speaker 2: to confess that, like twenty five years later, when I'm

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Speaker 2: like now that I'm into like ambient music and a

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Speaker 2: lot of minimalist stuff, I actually have to say, there's

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Speaker 2: some heaters on this album. I mean, there's a there's

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Speaker 2: a reason it's so damn popular. I mean, it's it's

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Speaker 2: all innocuous and fairly like I mean we'll talk about

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Speaker 2: this later, but fairly low effort musically, not in terms

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Speaker 2: of like the labor that went into it, because he

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Speaker 2: was doing all this pre computers. He was just doing

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Speaker 2: this with a bunch of samplers, but like you know,

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Speaker 2: he didn't like re harmonize these songs. He just draped

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Speaker 2: them in a bunch of single finger synth lines. That's

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Speaker 2: so funny that.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned this being ubiquitous, and you know, reading your

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Speaker 1: outline and seeing all the synks that it got in

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Speaker 1: commercials and movies.

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Speaker 2: Over one hundred that's in the course of a year.

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Speaker 1: I have almost no memory of this other than seeing

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Speaker 1: the poster for the album cover in like an fl

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Speaker 1: or Sam Goodie's or something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I granted I was not exactly on the

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Speaker 1: cutting edge of music in nineteen ninety nine when I

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Speaker 1: was twelve, but right, yeah, I just it's so funny.

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Speaker 1: Where would you encounter this, Like, what were your interactions

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Speaker 1: with this as a tween?

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Speaker 2: It was all over the box, which was the pre

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Speaker 2: pre MTV too. Yeah, so I and all the videos

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Speaker 2: for this were directed by like celebrated people like David

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Speaker 2: la Chappelle and Roman Coppola. Oh wow, Oh I didn't

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Speaker 2: know that. So I saw the videos quite a bit,

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Speaker 2: particularly south Side where Gwen Stefani looks like I hate

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Speaker 2: that song. Its song is.

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Speaker 1: Dumb, But that's that's the only like because it's dumb

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Speaker 1: and I don't have sophisticated music teste.

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Speaker 2: But Gwen Stefani is so hot that music video that

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Speaker 2: made quite an impression on me as a youngster. No,

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Speaker 2: I just uh yeah, that was like the first place,

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Speaker 2: and then like yeah through osmosis, just like like being

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Speaker 2: in the drug store and being in a Sam Goodie.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: Hearing me Alan Lomack's connection for this album really put

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Speaker 1: it in perspective for me.

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Speaker 2: Why you wanted to do this?

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Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. I don't know if I ever

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Speaker 1: told you about this. It reminds me of this project

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Speaker 1: that I was working on a few years ago. The

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Speaker 1: gentleman who runs the dust to Digital Twitter and Instagram

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Speaker 1: account came to us at iHeart and he wanted to

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Speaker 1: do a show. And for those of you who aren't

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Speaker 1: familiar with the Dusted Digital count, it is incredible. It

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Speaker 1: is just he's a I think he's an archivist Dan

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Speaker 1: in Georgia and he posts these amazing clips from around

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Speaker 1: the world. People send them stuff from everywhere. You get

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Speaker 1: everything from a guy playing a McDonald strawl like a

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Speaker 1: flute so well that it makes you want to cry

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Speaker 1: to women in Africa standing in a river playing the

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Speaker 1: water surface like a drum, which is just absolutely mind blowing.

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Speaker 1: And then you've got some guy in the American South

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Speaker 1: playing a cigar box guitar, and then a clip of

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Speaker 1: Carla Thomas on some regional TV show in the sixties.

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Speaker 1: I mean is he just has the most fast spectrum

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Speaker 1: of music from everywhere and he's just so cool. Everyone

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Speaker 1: go check out us the Digital and he pitches a

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Speaker 1: podcast that we actually put together a pilot four which

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Speaker 1: was like a tone poem for the development of music

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Speaker 1: and the cross pollination of sounds across the world, and

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Speaker 1: it was pretty cool. Every episode was going to be

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Speaker 1: a different theme, Like I think the pilot we did

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Speaker 1: was the body as an instrument, and it was just

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Speaker 1: people making these incredible sounds with like hand rhythms and

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Speaker 1: whistling and I think I think bone flutes and things

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Speaker 1: like that too, which technically bodies and instrument. It was

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Speaker 1: really cool, but it was a little too out there

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Speaker 1: and we didn't move forward with it at the network,

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Speaker 1: which I'm very sad about. But his account is so

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Speaker 1: cool again, check it out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And the crazy thing about YouTube at least is

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Speaker 2: that The Lomax archive, which we'll get into, is now

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Speaker 2: part of the Library of Congress, has some tremendous video

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Speaker 2: stuff that was shot, like RL burn side, like a

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Speaker 2: very young RL burn side playing and all like shaped

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Speaker 2: note congregations singing. It's just people who are just curious

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Speaker 2: about music. And maybe I'm gonna get corny here, like

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Speaker 2: feel a yearning for like an older style of music

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Speaker 2: in a different world that this music was being created in.

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Speaker 2: It is just an it's like a time machine and

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Speaker 2: it's incredible. Moby though guy, Yeah, yeah, that guy sucks.

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Speaker 2: I I you know, it's funny because like for me,

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Speaker 2: it didn't take until like the past few years when

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Speaker 2: cultural appropriation really became a thing for me to be

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Speaker 2: like kind of weird that this annoying, little bald guy

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Speaker 2: Vegan made like an ungodly amount of money by using

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Speaker 2: a bunch of black people's voices. But yeah, obviously that

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Speaker 2: conversation has only got more pointed and heated. And I

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Speaker 2: will say that despite his talent, the guy hasn't done

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Speaker 2: himself any favors. Man. He keeps just popping up in

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Speaker 2: the news for saying dumb sh Yeah. It's like I yeah,

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Speaker 2: I can't get quite a handle on what is precisely

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Speaker 2: wrong with him, but maybe we'll get to it. Maybe

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Speaker 2: we'll get to it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that was a conversation that we explicitly

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Speaker 1: had on the Stust the digital pilot, because he had

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Speaker 1: We played some of the field recordings and kind of

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Speaker 1: use that as a jumping off point to talk about

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Speaker 1: how you know, this music can sometimes yield unexpected results

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Speaker 1: like this movie hit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, some of these women were born in

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Speaker 2: nineteen oh two, you know, that's like, and their parents

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Speaker 2: were slaves, and it's just incredible that you have them

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Speaker 2: singing through history in this way. And it sucks that

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Speaker 2: he made so much money from it and apparently did

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Speaker 2: not give them any or even mention them by name ever, uh,

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Speaker 2: and in fact misidentify some of them as we will

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Speaker 2: also get into well for Moby's tragic backstory to the

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Speaker 2: Lomaxes and the Library of Congress collect since they're responsible

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Speaker 2: for to the bizarre nature of copyright and sampling law,

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Speaker 2: illustrated by the fact that Alan Lomax has a credit

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Speaker 2: on a jay Z song to the exact whereabouts of

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Speaker 2: the CD box set loaned to Moby that jump started

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Speaker 2: this whole damn thing. Here's everything you didn't know about

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Speaker 2: Moby's play.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Moby was born Mobile Bumblebee in nineteen sixty five, taking

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Speaker 2: his stage name by combining the two no. No, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: I'm just now hearing that's wrong. His name is Richard

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Speaker 2: Melville Hall, and he took his stage name, of course,

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Speaker 2: from Herman Melville's Moby Dick. However, despite this being a

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Speaker 2: frequently repeated part of his lore that he's distantly related

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Speaker 2: to Herman Melville, I don't believe that that's true. There

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Speaker 2: was like a genealogy podcast or project that I found

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Speaker 2: that actually contends that he is related to David Melville,

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Speaker 2: inventor of the first United States patented first patented in

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Speaker 2: the US gaslight system. That's god of cool.

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Speaker 1: Did he He must have started the Herman Melville rumor himself.

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Speaker 1: That seems something he would do.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, I mean, despite his bookish demeanor

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Speaker 2: and easy listening vibes, Moby's life was kind of His

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Speaker 2: dad died in a drunken car crash three days after

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Speaker 2: he was born three days and his single mother struggled

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Speaker 2: to make ends meet and raise her son in locales

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Speaker 2: like San Francisco, where he would later recall being sexually

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Speaker 2: abused by a staff member at his daycare, and a

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Speaker 2: squat in Darien, Connecticut, living with, as he later told

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Speaker 2: The Guardian, three or four other drug addicted hippies with

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Speaker 2: bands playing in the basement. I mean that all sounds awful,

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Speaker 2: showing compassion.

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Speaker 1: But Arthur squats and Darien, Connecticut, that's like, let me

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Speaker 1: tell you about That's like Greenwich, That's like Beverly Hills.

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Speaker 2: That's like, I mean, every city's got poor part. I

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Speaker 2: don't know. I mean, yeah, like you're right, Like obviously

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Speaker 2: the whole Natalie Portman thing. He showed his ass.

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Speaker 1: He plays fast and loose with this pat I think

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Speaker 1: he's I don't know. I start to wonder about his

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Speaker 1: deckenzie and upbringing.

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Speaker 2: But within the context of that, yeah, well, young Mobile

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Speaker 2: took up music and notched some impressive creds. When he

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Speaker 2: was eighteen, he was the lead singer for SF punk

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Speaker 2: Legend's Flipper for all of two days. Sorry, I just

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Speaker 2: want to say.

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Speaker 1: In twenty nineteen, the median household income for Darien, Connecticut

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Speaker 1: was a quarter million dollars.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well, what was it in nineteen seventy. Fine, I

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Speaker 2: love that you're already knives out for Richard.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the most aggressive I've ever gotten on

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Speaker 1: this show.

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Speaker 2: Hey, maybe you'll get some nasty Apple podcast reviews about you.

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Speaker 2: You think I would be much more on your bad energy?

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Speaker 1: You think I would be much more lenient and a nerdy,

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Speaker 1: nebeshy dude who delves into archives.

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Speaker 2: Well, he's got that. He's got that thing that Orson

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Speaker 2: Wells famously said about Woody Allen, which is that his

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Speaker 2: meekness is actually arrogance. Oh wow, yeah, you know, I

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Speaker 2: know we've both talked about a shared history on our

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Speaker 2: couches watching the various VH one programming countdowns of the

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Speaker 2: early to mid two thousands, and I remember there's an

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Speaker 2: episode I think it's either there are two that are

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Speaker 2: burned in my mind. There's one hundred Greatest Artists of

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Speaker 2: Hard Rock hosted by Carmen Electrone and Leather Dress. And

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Speaker 2: there's the forty Most Shocking Moments in Rock and Roll

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Speaker 2: hosted by Mark McGrath in a leather jack in a

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Speaker 2: leather face. That didn't happen until recently. I said Simpson's

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Speaker 2: line when they're watching Troy McClure and the Muppets. Daddy,

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Speaker 2: why is that muppet's face made out of leather? Anyway,

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Speaker 2: there's one of them where Moby is talking about Kurt

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Speaker 2: Cobain and he uses the word in sush.

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Speaker 1: And then he's got the chiron that brings up.

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Speaker 2: The chiro and the definition of the words that dunk

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Speaker 2: on him. I mean, the only time.

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Speaker 1: I've ever like intentionally washed anything with Moby being interviewed

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Speaker 1: was an episode of never Mind the Buzzcocks, which is

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Speaker 1: my beloved British music centric panel show pop Quiz, and

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Speaker 1: he was on there and he spent most of the

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Speaker 1: time just talking about how everyone hates him and just

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Speaker 1: made it like an ongoing joke about how like the

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Speaker 1: world hates it.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he's he's very sensitive about that and we

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Speaker 2: are not.

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Speaker 3: His.

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Speaker 2: He also stated started his own punk band A Wall

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Speaker 2: around this time.

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Speaker 1: Aw Ol, not a Wall, which would be really that

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Speaker 1: would be a much more mobi name.

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Speaker 2: That would be kind of sick punk band name. Wall. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: a wall a wool a wool. I don't know. That's

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Speaker 2: a regional accent thing. I can't shake it. He joined

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Speaker 2: the Connecticut punk band Vatican Commando for at least one EP.

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Speaker 2: So this is interesting because you have some of his

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Speaker 2: career pivots in the nineties are informed by his background

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Speaker 2: in hardcore.

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Speaker 1: Punk Connecticut punk band that's like Vegan Hunter, Like, come on,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, and I'm not trying to talk on Connecticut now.

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Speaker 1: Some of my best friends are of Connecticut. Come on,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're a punk guy. Is there a thriving

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Speaker 1: hardcore Connecticut punk scene.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of hardcore that comes from the northeast,

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Speaker 2: particularly Massachusetts. I don't know how much else of it has.

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Speaker 2: Let me just look up Connecticut punk bands and just

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Speaker 2: see what we got. Hate Breed, Okay, Youth of today.

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Speaker 2: Pioneering hardcore band Vatican Commandos are listened on here Dashboard Confessional.

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Speaker 2: Come on, so it's a it's a slim list, We'll

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Speaker 2: just say, but they existed. Representation it matters anyway. So

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Speaker 2: he started DJing. Also, he dropped out of college in

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four and began djaying around Greenwich and Stamford,

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Speaker 2: blah blah blah. I moved to New York, etc. And

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Speaker 2: so forth. Squalor he talks a lot about hanging out

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Speaker 2: at Mars Bar which may be a familiar signpost to you.

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Speaker 2: It's where people who were already old when I moved

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Speaker 2: to Brooklyn talked about their gory days. I remember Mars bar.

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Speaker 2: His first big break was with Go, a track that,

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Speaker 2: in keeping with his later work, is built on someone

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Speaker 2: else's work. Its entire harmonic framework is the two chords

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Speaker 2: of Angelo bat Lamente's theme from Twin Peaks. Released in

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety one, it peaked at number ten in the

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Speaker 2: UK in October and earned him national exposure. There he

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Speaker 2: made appearance on Top of the Pops and from there

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Speaker 2: his career kind of started, which would later be a

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Speaker 2: false start, but started to pick up. He collaborated on

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Speaker 2: remixes with the likes of Soundgarden and Billy Corgan. It's

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Speaker 2: hilarious that he's friends with Soundgarden. They took him onto

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Speaker 2: a or I don't know. You know, electronic music is

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Speaker 2: not really my forte, but I believe this was. You

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Speaker 2: can contextrawize a lot of this in the big rise

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Speaker 2: of I'm just gonna say electronica meaning anything based in

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Speaker 2: like drum machines, synths, and samples. I know that this

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Speaker 2: is a disservice to the entire world of electronic music

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Speaker 2: and all of its many, many subgenres. But I think

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Speaker 2: the quick thumbnail sketch of it in context is as follows.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot of US people who have

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Speaker 2: obviously gotten written out of it, like Frankie Knuckles, and

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Speaker 2: you know a lot of a lot of black people,

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Speaker 2: a lot of black DJs. But in the UK, I

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Speaker 2: think you can trace it a lot too, as we

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Speaker 2: just talked about in the Joy Division episode Factory Records

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Speaker 2: and the kind of breakbeat scene that sprung up in

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Speaker 2: northern Manchester and our breakbeat probably didn't start in Manchester. See,

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Speaker 2: this was what I was worried about. Electronic music. People

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Speaker 2: are deadly serious about their sub genres and I think

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Speaker 2: I'm making a hash of it, but it was big

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Speaker 2: in Britain and a lot of those started to filter

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Speaker 2: over to the US. This is where you get like

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Speaker 2: the early rave scene and everybody's on M D A

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Speaker 2: or M D M A and squats and warehouses. And

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Speaker 2: I think this is most typified by that like five

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Speaker 2: years chunk of time when you had like was it

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Speaker 2: the Dust Brothers who scored Fight Club? I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I think the like the soundtrack for Requiem for Dream

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Speaker 2: has a bunch of like breath beats on it. Obviously

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Speaker 2: Daft Punker breaking around this time, Portous Head, Chemical Brothers,

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Speaker 2: FX Twins, YEAHFX Twin singular, but it's a lot of

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Speaker 2: like you know that sound, massive attack, massive attack, shut this.

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Speaker 2: I think they're more down tempo, which is also what

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Speaker 2: Moby gets looped into. But again the damn subgenres. I

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Speaker 2: have no idea anyway. So this is the context in

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Speaker 2: which Moby was ascended and things kind of proceded a

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Speaker 2: pace for him. He signed to Electra in nineteen ninety

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Speaker 2: three in the US and Mute Records in the UK,

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Speaker 2: and his first single move Parentheses You Make Me Feel

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Speaker 2: So Good Parentheses Closed, reached number one on the US

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Speaker 2: Billboard Hot Dance Play Chart and number twenty one in

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Speaker 2: the UK. That year, he also toured with Aphex Twin

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Speaker 2: and could not abide with mister Twin's smoking habit, so

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Speaker 2: he elected to fly to each gig instead of take

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Speaker 2: the tour bus, which is hilarious given how hardcore he

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Speaker 2: is about veganism and climate change, and apparently at this

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Speaker 2: point in his career was not concerned with a relative

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Speaker 2: difference in carbon emissions between a plane and a bus, which,

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Speaker 2: as you can imagine, are vast.

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Speaker 1: The Mobster's next album, Everything Is Wrong, was released in

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Speaker 1: March nineteen ninety five. Spin magazine named it Album of

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Speaker 1: the Year, though it failed to crack the Billboard two

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Speaker 1: hundred or have an impact on the dance charts. Moby's

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Speaker 1: tour for the album included headline spots on the second

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Speaker 1: stage at the nineteen ninety five loll Palooza festival, and

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Speaker 1: it was fitted as the next big thing in the

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Speaker 1: dance electronica club. Whatever genre your words, I didn't much.

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Speaker 2: There's down tempo, there's breakbeat, there's happy hardcore, there's there's

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Speaker 2: that different. I don't think so. But maybe who's to say, sure,

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Speaker 2: New Jack Swing is electronics? Should we make a Should

376
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 2: we make an electronic genre? Right now? We probably could.

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Speaker 2: Who's to stop us?

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Speaker 1: Who's to say, who's to say piss jump? Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: go make some sounds right now. I can think of

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Speaker 1: his super Hans from Peep Show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just this is outrage, this can take this is outright. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean that's dude, uk't Yeah, this is just like

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Speaker 2: I just think of like sallow men with bad teeth

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Speaker 2: in parcos When I think of like the UK electronic scene,

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Speaker 2: there and there go the Apple podcast.

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Speaker 1: Our new friends in the UK.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, guys.

388
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Speaker 1: The La Times back in nineteen ninety five said Moby

389
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Speaker 1: was quote poised for greatness, and Billboard declared him King

390
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Speaker 1: of Techno. What an awful title, What an awful lineage.

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Speaker 1: Courtney Love approached Moby to produce her next whole album.

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Speaker 2: But he declined and became phrasing.

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Speaker 1: But he declined the work with Courtney Love and became

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Speaker 1: disillusioned with to his newfound fame and made his next

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Speaker 1: album a hard pivot. He called it Animal Rights, which

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00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 1: is hilarious, and it was a guitar driven rock record

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00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 1: that alienated his fans of softer ambient tracks. Biby himself

398
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Speaker 1: called it weird, long, self indulgent, and difficult.

399
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Speaker 2: Many of those words.

400
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 1: Apply to him by way, but for instance, the lead

401
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 1: single from Animal Rights was a cover of That's When

402
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,360
Speaker 1: I Reached for My Revolver, named for a quote by

403
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Speaker 1: Nazi poet Hans Jost by cult post punk band Mission

404
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 1: of Burma.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's uh, the quote is something about it. It's

406
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Speaker 2: actually the song title is actually a misnomery. The actual

407
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 2: quote is something like, when I begin to think of

408
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 2: the word culture, that's when I unholster my Browning or something. Anyway, Yeah,

409
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 2: what do you think about that? I admire the perversity

410
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Speaker 2: of it.

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Speaker 1: I'll say, sure, I mean, I see I almost It

412
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Speaker 1: almost seems like a lou Reed esque like will Full

413
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Speaker 1: driving a care into a mountain.

414
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Speaker 2: He has mentioned metal machine music in some interviews about this, unsurprisingly,

415
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,639
Speaker 2: but a metal machine music come out, that's a great question.

416
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,399
Speaker 1: Seventy five Oh that early wow, And that's the one

417
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 1: where he just let his guitars feedback and went out

418
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Speaker 1: in empty yeah camp back, which he was not even

419
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Speaker 1: in the city. All right, didn't he leave?

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Speaker 2: I don't know? Actually, yeah. That was after Sally Can't Dance,

421
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 2: which is his one of his worst records.

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Speaker 1: It's like, oh, he didn't like that. How about this? Yeah,

423
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Speaker 1: hits guitar in front of amp.

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Speaker 2: It was definitely in his like fallow era that it

425
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 2: was rock and Roll Animal, which is the live record

426
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 2: he cut with that guys who were later in Alice

427
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,919
Speaker 2: Cooper's band. It sounds nothing like him. Kind of a

428
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 2: great record, though those guys are all monsters. Berlin before that,

429
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 2: but Baldlin, as they say, Balklin. Anyway, go on.

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Speaker 1: After the backlash to these animal rights, he released a

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00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: compilation of his film score work and asked to be

432
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: released from his deal with Electra Records. You know you

433
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,439
Speaker 1: just burned through your contract. Here's a compilation of my

434
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: film scores. Can we wrap this up please?

435
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 2: I guess he like, yeah. I think he said he

436
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 2: was dropped, but I don't know. It doesn't nothing doesn't matter.

437
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 2: None of this matters.

438
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: Moby told Rolling Stone of this period, I was opening

439
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,120
Speaker 1: for Sound Garden and getting thrown at me every night

440
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 1: on stage. However, he did get fan mail about animal

441
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 1: rights from Terrence Trent, Darby, Axel Rose, and Bono, which

442
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 1: we guess is.

443
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 2: A good thing in the mid nineties, right, Apparently, he

444
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 2: cited it is a good sampling of favorable opinions. Sounds embarrassing. Up.

445
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 2: Mostly people wrote me and told me I was doing

446
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 2: a good job. I would seriously question my work, he added.

447
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 1: I did my own tour and was playing to roughly

448
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 1: fifty people a night.

449
00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 2: Oh my god, bitch, bitch, bitch.

450
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 1: How many people did we played to and our worst

451
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: like two on average?

452
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 2: Nine both of our girlfriends. Yeah, and the guy's in

453
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 2: the other band. Yeah. Sometimes sometimes a lot of the

454
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 2: time they did not watch us.

455
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: Sometimes if we were playing the Bowling Alley, they were rolling.

456
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

457
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 1: But Moby, much like us, was not in a good place.

458
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 1: His mom had died of lung cancer, and he was

459
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,679
Speaker 1: drinking heavily and having panic attacks before going on stage.

460
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 1: He initially started to work on what would become Play

461
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: with the intention that it would be his last album,

462
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: and he thought about going back to school to study

463
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 1: what else, architecture For some reason, that's just the way

464
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 1: that he makes these Like I think I remember hearing

465
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 1: Pink Floyd's later era music being described as large architectural

466
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: blocks of sounds, and that's always how I felt about

467
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: Moby's stuff in this era too.

468
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a bit of a tangent, and you

469
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 2: can cut it. But I've always thought of electronic music

470
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 2: as being built vertically rather than horizontally, because I mean,

471
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,159
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I mean, at least in digital audio workstations,

472
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 2: not back in the day when he again he was

473
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 2: just chaining samplers together, but in digital audio workstations, it's

474
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 2: you know, you're just stacking different effects and different synthwashes

475
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 2: and drum layers over one thing. And it doesn't you

476
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 2: know the idea of it, I guess because it doesn't

477
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 2: change it in their loops. The idea of it is

478
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 2: it doesn't feel as much of a progression to me.

479
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 2: I have no problem with this genre. I'm not investigating it,

480
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 2: but I don't hate it as much as a lot

481
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,439
Speaker 2: of people do. I mean, I do hate dubstep, and

482
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,360
Speaker 2: I do hate the rise of like David Gueta, who

483
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 2: we will get to this later, but excuse me, David Ghetta.

484
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 2: I used to get stopped by people thinking I was

485
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 2: him of the airports. I mean that could have worked

486
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 2: out with you in some ways, but spoiler alert, it

487
00:26:55,040 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 2: did not. How do you say QUICKI in ziebachun God,

488
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 2: that guy sucks. Moby described the inspiration for play thusly.

489
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 2: My friend Dimitri Erlik, who is a music journalist here

490
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 2: in New York, got this Alan Lomax box set that

491
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 2: is incorrect, As we will find out later, it was

492
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 2: his younger brother Gregor.

493
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: This box set was like, you know, musical touchstone for

494
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: I mean, pretty much kicked off the folk boom. I

495
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 1: guess we'll probably talk about this later. Yeah, in the

496
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: late fifties, early sixties. I mean Bob Dylan bass his

497
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: entire like early part of his career on this.

498
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there are. There are a lot of

499
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 2: the sort of big er texts of the folk boom

500
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 2: or two things. One was this Alan Lomax box set

501
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 2: that came out via Atlantic and Prestige, which was like

502
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 2: a twelve LP set, and then Harry partches the Anthology

503
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 2: of American Folk Music, which is a little bit weirder,

504
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 2: some more avant garde stuff not out on Guard, but

505
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 2: just some less mainstream stuff. And yeah, I mean there

506
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 2: are there are actually recordings of Bob Dylan and Al

507
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 2: Lomax like hanging out and Bob's like playing Masters of

508
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 2: War for him and then they talk about it. The

509
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 2: stuff is all online. I mean, when you spend your

510
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 2: whole life recording everything around you, you amass a pretty

511
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 2: big archive. The box set, anyway, he said early could

512
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 2: listen to it. It wasn't that interested in it, and

513
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 2: he gave it to me and I heard all these

514
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 2: great a cappellas. The box set specifically was Sounds of

515
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 2: the South, a musical journey from the Georgia Sea Islands

516
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 2: to the Mississippi Delta. Uh. Songs of the South, I

517
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 2: mean yeah, Song of the South is, of course, the

518
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 2: famously racist Disney movie The Zippity Dooo Dot comes from

519
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 2: and has been completely disappeared by them because it pictures

520
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 2: the slaves as happy and singing and all these other

521
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 2: like you know, racist overtones. But isn't that the big

522
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 2: thing about it? Yeah? Yeah, everyone look up Song in

523
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,719
Speaker 2: the South. Disney doesn't want you to. Lomax's work was

524
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 2: essentially just exploring and documenting music for parts of America

525
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 2: and other parts of the world as well. He was

526
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 2: just really at the er taper, let's just say. But

527
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 2: aside from that essential work, he is kind of a

528
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 2: talent agent. He and his dad were for like this

529
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 2: huge chunk of mid century American music. I mean they

530
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 2: quote unquote discovered artists like Robert Johnson, Woody Guthrie, Pete,

531
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 2: Seeger burrel Ives, Lead Belly, and Muddy Waters. This is

532
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 2: kind of a misnowner because obviously a lot of these

533
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 2: people were well known in their regions. But because of

534
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 2: the position with the Library of Congress and there ends

535
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 2: with the different radio programming, the Lomaxes really did break

536
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 2: these people nationally and internationally in ways that they never

537
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 2: would have just playing around. They never would have gotten

538
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 2: the chance had they just kept playing around, you know,

539
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 2: Louisiana and Texas. There are some knocks against the Lomaxes,

540
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 2: particularly that Alan in particular fevered recording conditions and performances

541
00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 2: that sort of reinforced the exoticzation of the music. Like

542
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,239
Speaker 2: he was a big proponent of recording outside and getting like,

543
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 2: you know, the sounds of nature in there, and he

544
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 2: frequently allowed them to get drunk or in fact just

545
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 2: got them drunk for recording sessions to kind of have

546
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 2: adam more authentic feel to it. So there's that, But

547
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 2: I still would argue that he is the most influential

548
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: academic and researcher of the twentieth century and maybe all time,

549
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 2: because you cannot the entire landscape of twentieth century music

550
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 2: in America and Britain, you cannot divorce it from his

551
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 2: work because this early stuff was coming on wax cylinders.

552
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 2: But then this box set in particular, as we mentioned,

553
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 2: later Atlantic Records bank rolled so he got like good

554
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 2: recording equipment. Some of these recordings still sound great and

555
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 2: when it was released, it just spread so far and wide,

556
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:00,040
Speaker 2: and between the stuff from the Mississippi Delta region that

557
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 2: he got and the stuff from that, let's just say,

558
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 2: like the more white music that he got. Everything in

559
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 2: the second half of the twentieth century is influenced by that.

560
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 2: You know, anybody who like country rock, folk rock, obviously

561
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 2: the folk boom, but also all of rock and roll.

562
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 2: You don't get rock and roll without the Delta Blues.

563
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 2: And you don't get people in Britain hearing about the

564
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 2: Delta Blues and then stealing it without Alan Lomax. So

565
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 2: I mean, when you quantify his influence and reach in

566
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 2: that way, I mean, remember, the most famous researcher of

567
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 2: at least non scientific of all time, you know, and

568
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 2: people don't really know who he is except for nerds.

569
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 2: So obviously I'm quite enamored of his work. But you

570
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 2: were saying.

571
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 1: Extremely well said, especially considering most of that was off

572
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: the dome. Born in Texas in nineteen fifteen to a

573
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: concert pianist mother and a prominent musicologist father, like you mentioned,

574
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: Alan Lomax came by his interest in folk music naturally.

575
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 1: At age seventeen, he took a break from his studies

576
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 1: and joined his dad on folk song collecting field trips,

577
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: which we'll talk more about later for the Library of Congress.

578
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: The trip on which he discovered Huddy led Belly Ledbetter

579
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: Led Belly, absolutely iconic blues and folk figure. He'd already

580
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: lived one hell of a life by the time he

581
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: crossed passed with Alan Lomax. He was convicted of murder

582
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 1: in Texas in nineteen eighteen and sentenced to thirty years

583
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 1: in prison, though he wrote a song pleading for a

584
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: pardon and was granted one by Governor Pat Morris Neff

585
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: in nineteen twenty five. Okay, the whole murder thing in

586
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: the led Belly origin story kind of gets glossed over.

587
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 2: Do you know what?

588
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: What did he did? A Did he actually kill someone?

589
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 1: Or was he fin' sure?

590
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 2: Oh? Oh, I'm sure no. I mean a lot of

591
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 2: those guys, several of those Blues guys were murderers. Skip

592
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,479
Speaker 2: James said that he shot a guy in like a

593
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 2: logging camp, I think at one point just to watch

594
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 2: him die. Possibly who else? I was just thinking of,

595
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 2: oh r al Burnside, who I mentioned earlier, who's like

596
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 2: Thanks to Fat Possum Records, became one of the more

597
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 2: visible rerediscovered Southern blues artists in the late nineties early

598
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 2: two thousands. He played with John Spencer Blues Explosion and

599
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 2: he shot a man. He mentions it on camera at

600
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 2: one point in this documentary. Yeah, it was a rough

601
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 2: and tumbled time. Man. You know, all of these guys

602
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 2: were just like kind of I mean, I've read a

603
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 2: lot about the Delta Blues and it's fascinating because some

604
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 2: of them really only had like learned a handful of songs.

605
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 2: I mean, they were not like jazz musicians or thought

606
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 2: of themselves as musicians in any particular sense. My music

607
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 2: was just part of such a part of the culture

608
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,719
Speaker 2: that they would just pick up a couple songs that

609
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 2: they would learn from either other musicians or just by

610
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 2: being around them and kind of perform them either as

611
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 2: like party tricks or cobbled together a set and would

612
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 2: play that. But you know, none of this is really paid,

613
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 2: because all of it was for house parties. On the

614
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 2: different work farms or plantations that were I mean, I

615
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,919
Speaker 2: guess they weren't called plantations. They were work farms after

616
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,839
Speaker 2: the Civil War, but same difference. And yeah, I mean,

617
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 2: otherwise they were just like working in logging camps, or

618
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 2: some of them were just professional gamblers. I mean, it

619
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 2: was really a rough and tumble millieu. Certainly not Miles

620
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 2: Davis going to Juilliard, you know situation. So no, I

621
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 2: have no doubt that Lad Belly actually killed someone, maybe

622
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 2: more than one person.

623
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: Are there any ethical implications we should touch on with that, or.

624
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,839
Speaker 2: Just guy had a common well, I mean, how much

625
00:34:55,800 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 2: an entire dissertation's worth. I mean, you know, this at

626
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 2: this point was just still reconstruction era, right, And so

627
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 2: the cards were heavily stacked against all these guys trying

628
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 2: to get off out of the sharecropping situation. And as

629
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 2: Dave Chappelle famously said, you know, you better learn how

630
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 2: to dance or play basketball or somehow learn how to

631
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 2: entertain these white folks if you want to get out

632
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 2: of here. But they were violent situations. Man and Angola

633
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 2: or Led Belly in Louisiana where Lead Belly wound up

634
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 2: at one point was hell on Earth. It's a famously

635
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 2: horrifying prison, and it's just it's incredibly sad. And a

636
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 2: lot of them, you know, as we'll touch later, were

637
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 2: still languishing in obscurity. I mean I didn't really touch

638
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 2: on in this episode, but basically, in tandem with a

639
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 2: lot of this stuff, there were people who were just

640
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,240
Speaker 2: fans of this music who would just John Fahy is

641
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 2: a huge one, who would just go drive through the

642
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 2: South and ask for what we're called race records and

643
00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 2: pick up stuff for their collections. And it was dangerous back.

644
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 2: I mean, they would get chased out of neighborhoods just

645
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 2: because Alan Lomarck got in trouble, just because he had

646
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 2: a giant Library of Congress seal on his van, and

647
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 2: people were just like, who is this white man coming

648
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:16,359
Speaker 2: down from the government like asking about us? But yeah,

649
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 2: I mean it was a tough time. He's horrifically impoverished

650
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 2: and alcohol abuse everywhere, and so much of this music

651
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 2: that has become foundational to American history and deified in

652
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,879
Speaker 2: a sort of remote way, people don't really understand how

653
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 2: terrible life was for a lot of these guys. So

654
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 2: you know, I bear them no grudges as far as murders.

655
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: When the Little Max has found led Belly, he was

656
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: serving time and Louisiana's notorious and Gola Penitentiary, as you

657
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 1: just mentioned, they recorded him in nineteen thirty three and

658
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty four, and sent the recordings to Louisiana Governor

659
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: Oscar k Allen, petitioning for led Belly's release. Some of

660
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 1: claim that led Belly was due to be anyway due

661
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: to good behavior, But I think this.

662
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 2: Put the legend in this case. Yeah, it makes a

663
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 2: better story. Yeah. Oh, here it is. Leed Belly shot

664
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 2: and killed Will Stafford in December nineteen seventeen while on

665
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 2: the run from the law. Will Stafford. So was he

666
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 2: a cop? Nope? Led Belly insulted his girlfriend Stafford Drew first. Okay, yeah,

667
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 2: classic Jesus continue.

668
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: Leed Belly ended up driving John Lomax around for three months,

669
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 1: helping him with his folk song collecting, before making a

670
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: go of things as a singer himself. Despite what you've

671
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: described as an astonishingly racist Life magazine article and championinged

672
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:52,240
Speaker 1: by Native Son author Richard Wright, led Belly actually landed

673
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 1: in prison again in nineteen thirty nine, at which point

674
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: Alan Lomax took him under his wing and secured him

675
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,760
Speaker 1: radio show appearances and bookings.

676
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 2: Imagine he got him out of prison. I believe it

677
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 2: was just actually released this time. But like to the

678
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 2: recognizance of John Lomax, whoa That life. I cannot read

679
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 2: the title of that life pictorial it is it uses

680
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 2: the hard r What sent me a link to that?

681
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. One of the most the craziest details I

682
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 2: forgot about Lead Bellies that he was his throat was

683
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 2: almost cut. He was playing a dance and someone stuck

684
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 2: a knife in his neck and almost completely cut his throat.

685
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 2: And I forget. I remember this detail about him was

686
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,240
Speaker 2: that people said it was from like a botched hanging,

687
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 2: but it was a knife wound. Before he started a

688
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 2: singing career after No, this was at at a gig actually,

689
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 2: Christ Yeah, I mean that's the thing, man. These roadhouses

690
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 2: were tough. I've seen roadhouse tarshak tar paper shacks, like

691
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 2: just the play where they were playing these I mean

692
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 2: these songs, and I forget one of them it might

693
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 2: be Mississippi Fred McDowell or maybe BUCKA White, but one

694
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 2: of them talks about being like eleven and knowing like

695
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 2: very little guitar, but just being having people be like, no,

696
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 2: it's a dance, you have to keep playing. And they

697
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 2: would just keep giving him shots to keep going. And

698
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 2: these would go to like Dawn, What did.

699
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: You just say A tar tar paper factory, tar paper shack,

700
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 1: tar paper shack.

701
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 2: I guess it's what it says on the ten. Yeah,

702
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 2: oh yep, wow Yeah.

703
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: Until his death in nineteen forty four, led Belly continued

704
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: to record and perform across the US. His final concert

705
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,760
Speaker 1: was at the University of Texas at Austin in tribute

706
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 1: to John Lowell, Max Allen's father, who died the previous year.

707
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: Led belly songs Midnight Special and good Night Irene have

708
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 1: become folks standards, and he was rediscovered in the early

709
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,760
Speaker 1: nineties when Kurt Cobain name checked him during Nirvana's MTV

710
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 1: on Plugged performance when he covered his song where did

711
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: You Sleep Last Night?

712
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 2: Also known as in the Pines. Yeah, lead Billion Woody

713
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 2: Guthrie sang that together. I think on radio on a

714
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 2: radio program at one point.

715
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 1: That is a great performance, and Kurt does it never

716
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 1: I've not heard led bellies.

717
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 2: I mean it sounds dated in a way. I mean

718
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 2: it's much less purposefully haunting, a little more jaunty. But

719
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 2: he was an incredible musician. I mean he played a

720
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 2: twelve string guitar primarily, and he fingerpicked it and having

721
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 2: one here that I don't play. It's hard to fingerpick

722
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 2: on a twelve string. It's hard to play a twelve

723
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 2: string period unless you're just kind of sweeping through the strings,

724
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 2: because it's such a dampaign in the ass to have

725
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 2: all of them. But yeah, he's a tremendous guitar player singer.

726
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 2: He also played like a squeeze box. There's pictures of

727
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 2: him with like a little accordion. What's all this about

728
00:40:54,880 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 2: folk song collecting? You get a water, I'll continue. Song

729
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 2: collecting is one of the weirder phrases in the annals

730
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:07,439
Speaker 2: of American history. The job, process, vocation, whatever you wanna

731
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 2: call it, dates back to nineteen twenty six, when a

732
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 2: guy named Robert Winslow Gordon pitched the Library of Congress's

733
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:17,240
Speaker 2: Music Division director, who was a guy named Carl Engel,

734
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 2: on a folk music collecting project that would allow him

735
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 2: to continue the work he'd been doing researching and archiving

736
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 2: folk music from San Francisco and Oakland in the early

737
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 2: nineteen hundreds. That's right, folks, there was a time when

738
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 2: your government cared about culture and art and not f

739
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 2: What are they up to now? F sixteens This was

740
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,879
Speaker 2: part of the Works Progress Administration spending In nineteen twenty eight.

741
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 2: Engel was concerned that the advent of industrialization technology like

742
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 2: radio and the phonograph meant that America was going to

743
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 2: be losing its more niche musical cultures, and he established

744
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 2: the Archive of American Folk Song at the Library of

745
00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 2: Congress with Gordon as its chair. With these, Gordon expanded

746
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 2: his range of collecting from the Bay Area to Georgia

747
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:08,359
Speaker 2: and later Virginia, West Virginia and Kentucky. However, the Great

748
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 2: Depression caused the project to fall by the wayside in

749
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty two when funds from the government and private

750
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 2: sectors dried up. Shortly after Gordon left, though, John Lomax

751
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 2: independently visited the Archive to consult its collections for his

752
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 2: book American Ballads and Folk Song This is Alan's Dad.

753
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 2: While there, he struck a deal with Engel that he'd

754
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 2: receive a phonograph and wax cylinder recording blanks from the

755
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 2: Library of Congress in exchange for donating all of his

756
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:37,320
Speaker 2: recordings to the archive. Lomax and basically his whole family

757
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 2: he took his kids and wife along with these started

758
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 2: these forays into the South. From this time, they focused

759
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 2: on Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, South Carolina, Georgia,

760
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 2: and Virginia. Fun fact, because the government has always been

761
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 2: cheap skates. Lomax worked with the Library of Congress for

762
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 2: over a decade and kept the title of Honorary Curator

763
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 2: until his day, but he was never on payroll. The

764
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,399
Speaker 2: Library of Congress expected him to make ends meet through

765
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:09,919
Speaker 2: grant's and his lecture circuit earnings. In nineteen thirty six, though,

766
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 2: Alan Lomax became the Archive's first official employee and was

767
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 2: given both the title of Assistant in charge and an

768
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 2: annual salary of six hundred and twenty dollars. He expanded

769
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 2: the reach of the project to Haiti and the Bahamas

770
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 2: and brought in Woody Guthrie, with whom he wrote and

771
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 2: co hosted American Folk Songs, which was a twenty six

772
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:33,439
Speaker 2: week radio broadcast by CBS. Things that the Archive ramped

773
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 2: up in nineteen forty when they secured a grant from

774
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 2: a Carnegie Corporation which allowed them to install a recording

775
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:42,399
Speaker 2: studio and started producing recordings in nineteen forty one that

776
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 2: include some of the earliest issued folk music anthologies in

777
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 2: the US. Alan Lomax expit the reach of the archive

778
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 2: by essentially offering the same deal that John got, will

779
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:55,800
Speaker 2: give you the equipment if you give us the songs

780
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 2: to any local folk music researchers, which is really a

781
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,360
Speaker 2: step in expanding this outside of the immediate reach of

782
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 2: the Library of Congress. The context of the Folklore Ring

783
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 2: gradually started to shift and started including things like oral

784
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 2: history and photography projects, which are all still on the

785
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 2: website and are all amazing, some incredible photography. It continued

786
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 2: up through the seventies at the behest of this folk

787
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 2: Life Center and then like yeah, like I mentioned, letters

788
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 2: and drawings and all this efemera. It's a little too

789
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 2: granular even for us to get into how it got

790
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 2: away from being specifically folk music. But by nineteen seventy six,

791
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,839
Speaker 2: President Ford signed the American folk Life Preservation Act, which

792
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 2: formerly brought the Folk Song Archive under the broad umbrella

793
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 2: of the American Folk Life Center at the Library of Congress.

794
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 2: As of twenty eighteen, the Archive of Folk Culture encompasses

795
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 2: twenty seven hundred collections that contain one hundred and fifty

796
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 2: thousand sound recordings and over three million items total. It

797
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 2: branches into oral histories conducted with the former slaves, specific

798
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 2: oral histories photographs based around particular cities. There's one on Patterson,

799
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 2: New Jersey that I was particularly taken with. And it's

800
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,840
Speaker 2: all online for free. So for anyone who is interested

801
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 2: in American history, it is an invaluable research. Big ups

802
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 2: to the Library of Congress. You know, your beloved Library

803
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 2: of Congress, My beloved Library of Congress. I don't know, man,

804
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:26,800
Speaker 2: like the government used to care about this kind of

805
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 2: You know, they weren't always just inventing magic numbers and

806
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 2: throwing them at genocide or you know, blowing up brown people.

807
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 2: They were like invested in culture.

808
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 1: You know, we're gonna take a quick break, but we'll

809
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:45,839
Speaker 1: be right back with more.

810
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:47,800
Speaker 2: Too much information in just a moment.

811
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,279
Speaker 1: Anyway, when people talk about Alan Lomax, they usually talk

812
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 1: about his so called Southern Journey that took place from

813
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty nine to nineteen sixty throughout Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama,

814
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 1: and Georgia. What Max had fled the US for much

815
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,280
Speaker 1: of the fifties because of the McCarthy era witch hunts

816
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 1: and their particular fondness for targeting folky types. Upon its

817
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 1: return in nineteen fifty seven, and witnessing the nascent folk

818
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 1: music boom in and around Greenwich Village in New York City,

819
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 1: for which he was partially responsible, he recoiled. As he

820
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,360
Speaker 1: wrote in a letter, some of the young folk knicks

821
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 1: who dominated the New York scene asserted that there was

822
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: more folk music in Washington Square on Sunday afternoon than

823
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,359
Speaker 1: there was in all of rural America. Apparently it made

824
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: them feel like heroes to believe they were keeping a

825
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 1: dying tradition alive. The idea that these nice young people

826
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: who were only just beginning to learn how to play

827
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 1: and sing in good style might replace the glories of

828
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 1: the real thing frankly horrified me.

829
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 2: Good for him. Yes, this is what I hate about

830
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 2: the Folks Bible. I mean, other than the fact that

831
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 2: it did spawn so much great music and people who

832
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 2: were genuinely interested in it, it also spawned garbage like

833
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,280
Speaker 2: the Kingston Trio, and all these clowns were just wearing

834
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 2: like ice cream shirts.

835
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 3: Tom Dooley, Yeah, hang down your hit, Tom Dully, like

836
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 3: just completely whitewashing it and making it the most I mean,

837
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 3: I just talked about how all this stuff was like forged.

838
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 2: In blood and dirt, and you got these sounds up

839
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 2: there singing like immaculate three part harmonies about murder. They're like,

840
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 2: how do you make songs about murder? Boring in milk toast?

841
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 2: And white people did it so well.

842
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 1: I just interviewed a bunch of the Beach boys and

843
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 1: Al Jardine, one of the Beach Boys, he's the guy

844
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 1: who brought Sloop John B to Brian Wilson to do.

845
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,359
Speaker 1: It's just one of the big Beach boys hits off

846
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:03,240
Speaker 1: of pet sounds. He knew it through the Kingston Trio,

847
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 1: and the Kingston Trio knew it as an old like

848
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: Caribbean sea shanty song.

849
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:12,760
Speaker 2: Do you know where they got it? Nowhere? Alan Lomax, Dude, Well, sure, yeah.

850
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 1: That's what I'm been blying. Yeah, trace the lineage from

851
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 1: yes exactly, Yeah, Yeah, this is hilarious. In nineteen thirty five,

852
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 1: Lomax flew from Florida to Nassau in the Bahamas, where

853
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 1: he started doing recording of the island, particularly the sponge

854
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: Fishers of Cat Island.

855
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:31,840
Speaker 2: It says in his biography, and then they were told

856
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 2: to leave because they were suspected of being labor agitators.

857
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 2: But some of the songs that they got from this

858
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:40,839
Speaker 2: were I Bid You good Night, which was famously sung

859
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:42,880
Speaker 2: by the Grateful Dead at the close of all of

860
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 2: their classic lineup shows, and in the vernacular this song

861
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 2: is actually titled heast or Hoist Up the John b Sale. Anyway,

862
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 2: so you were talking about the Beach Boys as you

863
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 2: always do, well.

864
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 1: Alan Lomax had a desire to correct this, and he

865
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: pitched Atlantic Records to equip and fund his next journey,

866
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 1: which would be his shortest and just two months long.

867
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 1: But Lomax was no longer toting around a phonograph and

868
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 1: wax cylinders. He was now armed with a more modern

869
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,280
Speaker 1: Ampec six to OHO one reel to reel tape recorder,

870
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 1: a mixer, and external microphones like an RCA D seventy seven,

871
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 1: a ribbon microphone that now goes for between two thousand

872
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 1: and three thousand dollars, and an Altech lipstick mic that

873
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,359
Speaker 1: also goes for up to like two grand now. And

874
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 1: all of us weighed about three hundred pounds, so it

875
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 1: wasn't easy I.

876
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 2: Mean really, yeah, really incredible, and some of those I mean,

877
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 2: it just goes to show how much you can do

878
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 2: with good analog equipment. I mean you did. Some of

879
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,320
Speaker 2: those recordings are still just beautiful stuff.

880
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:45,439
Speaker 1: Atlantic Records stake in the project included a seven LP

881
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:49,320
Speaker 1: collection named the Southern Folk Heritage Series in nineteen sixty

882
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:53,800
Speaker 1: The twelve LP Southern Journey Series for Prestige International Records

883
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 1: was also taken from this trip. Of course, the tracks

884
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 1: included were guided by the music industry. Notes for reissues

885
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 1: of the Atlantic sets see Lomax admitting the set reflects

886
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 1: to some extent what the Ertigans, Ama and Nushi, the

887
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:11,320
Speaker 1: founders of Atlantic Records, felt might best reach their pop audience.

888
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 2: Loacs, to his credit, attempted to break a few of

889
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:17,800
Speaker 2: these subjects. As part of the Folk Revival. He booked

890
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 2: singers like Almita Riddle, Hilbert Smith ed Young, and Bessie Jones,

891
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 2: whose voice turns up in Moby's work at the Newport

892
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 2: Folk Festival in nineteen sixty four. Mississippi. Fred McDowell was

893
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 2: probably the biggest beneficiary of this journey. He was able

894
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 2: to because of his genial and affable nature and tremendous

895
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:40,919
Speaker 2: songs and fingerpicking. He was able to make a living

896
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 2: from live performances on the back of this of this

897
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 2: quote unquote rediscovery. It's funny I read a biography of

898
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 2: Skip James, who was actually re rediscovered by John Fahey.

899
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 2: John Fahey and his buddy got Skip James out of

900
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 2: a hospital by paying his hospital bill, and John Fahey,

901
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,360
Speaker 2: true to forum because he was an ass would for

902
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 2: years afterwards say I bought Skip James. But yeah, there's

903
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 2: a fascinating biography about Skip James called I'd Rather Be

904
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 2: the Devil, which is the name of one of his tunes.

905
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 2: And that guy was prickly. He was not a pleasant

906
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 2: man by all accounts, and consequently did not really make

907
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 2: an affable pop singer the way that Mississippi Fred McDowell did. Anyway,

908
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:31,840
Speaker 2: back to Vincent Van Moeb play was produced on mostly

909
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 2: secondhand equipment at Moby's Mott Street Home studio in Manhattan,

910
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,720
Speaker 2: New York, from August nineteen ninety seven through nineteen ninety

911
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 2: eight altogether. I worked on it for a year, he

912
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:44,399
Speaker 2: told Chaos Control back in nineteen ninety nine. I mixed

913
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 2: it there then. I wasn't happy with it. Then I

914
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 2: went to one outside studio to mix it, went to

915
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 2: another outside studio, and then I ended up coming back

916
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 2: here and doing the mixing myself. So I wasted a

917
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 2: lot of time and money. He also told the site

918
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 2: that Play's track list was whittled down to eighteen from

919
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:04,760
Speaker 2: around two to three hundred songs. Ultimately, playtracks Honey, Find

920
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 2: My Baby and Natural Blues were air quotes composed by

921
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 2: Moby around vocal hooks sampled from songs in the Lomax collection.

922
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 2: These are, respectively, by Bessie Jones her recording of Sometimes

923
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:19,280
Speaker 2: Boy Blue from Joe Lee's Rock and Via hall Ward

924
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 2: from troubles Hard. Another playtrack, Why Does My Heart Feel

925
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 2: So Bad, is lifted from a song called He'll Roll

926
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:28,320
Speaker 2: Your Burdens Away by the Banks Brothers and the Greater

927
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 2: Harvest back Home Choir of Newark, New Jersey, originally released

928
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty six on Savoy and lastly run On

929
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:40,919
Speaker 2: uses Bill Landford in The Landford Ayers nineteen forty nine

930
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:44,359
Speaker 2: rendition of the traditional folk hymn God's Gonna Cut You Down.

931
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 2: Landford had been a member of the Golden Gate Quartet,

932
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 2: which are actually very influential in the history of the

933
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:53,880
Speaker 2: development of gospel music. Traditional, the four part vocal structure

934
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 2: of what we consider the golden age of gospel quartets,

935
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 2: like the ones that Sam Cook started in the Soulsteerers,

936
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 2: evolved out of what they call these jubilee quartets, which

937
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 2: are actually kind of alien to us sounding because they

938
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 2: were much more concerned with like tight, what we would

939
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,799
Speaker 2: consider like barbershop style harmonies, and they were based out

940
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,720
Speaker 2: of colleges, some of the first all black colleges launched

941
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 2: these jubilee quartets. Moby said, run On was one of

942
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 2: the first songs written emphasis mind, and it was really

943
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 2: hard to put together because it had so many samples

944
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 2: in it. I didn't use computers at that point. It

945
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 2: was all done with standalone samplers. He also claimed to

946
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:32,399
Speaker 2: have no idea that God's going to cut you down.

947
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 2: Was one of the twentieth centuries most well known gospel

948
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 2: and country standards. There are versions out there by Odetta Elvis,

949
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 2: Johnny Cash, Marilyn Manson, and Tom Jones, among others.

950
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 1: Which one of those people is deepest in hell.

951
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,799
Speaker 2: It's gonna be Marilyn Manson when that finally happens. But

952
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:01,280
Speaker 2: man Be a recent cover.

953
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 1: Actually, my favorite Tom Jones cover is uh this incredible

954
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:09,320
Speaker 1: version of Talking Heads burning down the House with Nina

955
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: I forget her last name from The Cardigans, m.

956
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 2: The Cardigans, Whither the Cardigans? The Johnny Cash one is

957
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:19,759
Speaker 2: probably my favorite. It's off the American series and it

958
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 2: genuinely sounds haunting, and so of course it's been used

959
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:29,399
Speaker 2: in like truck ads by now, uh god, I mean

960
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:32,319
Speaker 2: Tom Jones kind of rips some of these latter work.

961
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 2: As we talked about in Mars Attacks. Do we do

962
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 2: Mars Attacks? We never did Mars. We're talking about Tom

963
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:40,759
Speaker 2: Jones at one point because we were talking about how

964
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:42,760
Speaker 2: these later careers actually quite interesting.

965
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:45,799
Speaker 1: I don't remember ever talking about that. You're sure that

966
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 1: wasn't a text conversation with Dave.

967
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 2: Long from the Project of Fugue State, just talking to

968
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:58,280
Speaker 2: your dog. Yeah, probably, Moby wrote, So Tom Jones's later works,

969
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:04,919
Speaker 2: that's dude, Please feed me not an exaggeration, Moby wrote,

970
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:08,320
Speaker 2: Honey in quote about ten minutes he told Rolling Stone

971
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:10,799
Speaker 2: in two thousand and nine, Gosh, I wonder why it

972
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 2: was so easy for you to write, Perhaps because never

973
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 2: mind someone else wrote it. Yeah, my girlfriend at the

974
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 2: time really liked it, he continued, and that surprised me

975
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 2: because she didn't really like my music. I'm wondering if

976
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:26,720
Speaker 2: in his mind this is Natalie Portman. Old Moby Dobe

977
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 2: Doo famously claimed to have dated her. In nineteen ninety nine.

978
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 2: He wrote a memoir in which he claimed this, and

979
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 2: Portman publicly shut it down, recalling the incident as a

980
00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:38,799
Speaker 2: quote much older man being creepy with me when I

981
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 2: had just graduated high school. In a classic celebrity bungle,

982
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:46,680
Speaker 2: Moby doubled down and followed the template that's been in

983
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 2: place since time immemorial. He posted proof, which was a

984
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 2: picture of them where he's shirtless, and then he said

985
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 2: people should be paying more attention to climate change. And

986
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:01,280
Speaker 2: then he apologized the picture is right because it looks

987
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:03,799
Speaker 2: like he just took his shirt off in a room

988
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:08,799
Speaker 2: with Natalie Yeah, like backstage. Yeah, and she looks visibly uncomfortable.

989
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:13,320
Speaker 1: The track find My Baby, Mobe told Rolling Stone, was

990
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 1: quote basically just me playing slide guitar over a vocal sample.

991
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:20,399
Speaker 1: I added what I thought were hip hop drums to it.

992
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 1: In the eighties, I was djaying a lot of hip hop.

993
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,439
Speaker 1: At one point I was working at Manhattan's Mars Bar,

994
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:28,399
Speaker 1: and I used to keep a microphone by the turntables

995
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:31,719
Speaker 1: Big Daddy Kane and run DMC and Third Base and

996
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 1: Flavor Flame, and everybody would go down to this club

997
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 1: and get drunk, and I had the microphone. I was

998
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:39,239
Speaker 1: the weird white DJ for all these rappers who were

999
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 1: drinking and rapping to impress their girlfriends.

1000
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 2: Shut up, okay, man, He's just everything out of his

1001
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:53,040
Speaker 2: mouth is just off putting in some way. It's really astounding.

1002
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 2: Why does my Heart Feel So bad? Quote was written

1003
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:59,880
Speaker 2: in ninety two as a bad techno song, Mooby continued.

1004
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 2: Some might argue, did it change.

1005
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:06,439
Speaker 1: It's the American Coronary Association's same song.

1006
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:12,080
Speaker 2: It really no, Oh, I wouldn't surprise me. You could

1007
00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:14,759
Speaker 2: throw a dart at something in the late nineties, and

1008
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 2: amobi track was probably associated with it.

1009
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:21,520
Speaker 1: The American Cornery Association, an organization I just made up,

1010
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 1: would not have a theme song Why does my Heart

1011
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 1: Feel So Bad?

1012
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 2: I think you underestimate the stupidity of marketing. Jordan uh,

1013
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 2: he said, just mediocre generic techno. At some point I

1014
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 2: rediscovered the song and I tried doing it considerably slower.

1015
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 2: Tried to make it mournful and romantic. Two of these

1016
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 2: songs were pushed for inclusion on play by Moby's managers.

1017
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:49,480
Speaker 2: He added, my manager Barry talked me into including Porcelain,

1018
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 2: and my other manager, Eric talked me into including why

1019
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:56,160
Speaker 2: does My Heart Feel So Bad? Lastly, Natural Blues is

1020
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 2: built around Via hall Ward's Immortal Trouble So Hard, as

1021
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 2: basically it's entire melody. This one kind of is probably

1022
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:06,920
Speaker 2: the most egregious to me, and not just because I

1023
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 2: liked it the most, but he just takes her whole performance. Man,

1024
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 2: it's the whole melody of the song, which is really

1025
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 2: like and we'll get into copyright law on this weird

1026
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 2: stuff later, but it like actually gets to the point

1027
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:24,360
Speaker 2: of how do you own a copyright on something? Because

1028
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 2: you can't copyright a chord progression, right, but you can't

1029
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 2: a melody. So he just added like an undergirding of

1030
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 2: beats and synthwashes to an existing melody, and it's his

1031
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 2: song off Richard, you gotta do it with the John

1032
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 2: Hurt voice off Richard Natural Blues.

1033
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 1: We don't talk much about Porcelain in this episode, which

1034
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 1: is kind of the only song I knew originally of

1035
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 1: this Let's see.

1036
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:57,120
Speaker 2: What where he's stole porcelain from? No, he did write this,

1037
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:01,480
Speaker 2: Oh nope, I was wrong. First sample of strings from

1038
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:06,120
Speaker 2: the Earnest Gold composition Fight for Survival, from his soundtrack

1039
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 2: to the nineteen sixty film Accidents. That's Cool. Porcelain was

1040
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:14,680
Speaker 2: prominently sampled on Rapper asap Rockies twenty eighteen Asap Forever

1041
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 2: asapsap Rocky. I guess you gotta read the whole thing

1042
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:21,959
Speaker 2: out like a tribe called quest. John Lomax, the Elder.

1043
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:24,360
Speaker 2: Lomax had met Ward, who was born in Alabama, in

1044
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 2: nineteen oh two. He recorded her for the Library of

1045
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 2: Congress in the nineteen thirties, saying she had one of

1046
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 2: his favorite voices he'd ever recorded. Later, the Library of

1047
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:38,960
Speaker 2: Congress played this song in commemoration of the seventy fifth

1048
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:45,200
Speaker 2: anniversary of the Emancipation Proclamation in nineteen thirty seven, almost

1049
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 2: sixty years to the date when a nebeshy white guy

1050
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 2: would steal it.

1051
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 4: Oooh lining trebo soorhan ooh line trebo Sohan, don't evad

1052
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 4: boomer trouble for God.

1053
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:05,560
Speaker 2: Don't know about and no man.

1054
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 4: Trouble gone went down hel Oh the day, Soul God

1055
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:16,160
Speaker 4: Happy stayed.

1056
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 2: All day Oooh. Some of Ward's recordings were released as

1057
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 2: an album called Cornbread, Crumbled and Gravy. Another Man, Done

1058
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 2: Gone became Vera Hall's most celebrated performance and was a

1059
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 2: particular favorite of poet and Lincoln biographer Carl Sandberg. Right,

1060
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:38,760
Speaker 2: that's what Carl Sandberg's deal is. That's all the Lincoln biographies, Okay.

1061
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:42,320
Speaker 2: Alan lomax to helped secure Ward a booking in nineteen

1062
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 2: forty eight at Columbia University. He later wrote of her voice,

1063
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:49,640
Speaker 2: the sound comes from deep within her when she sings

1064
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 2: from a source of golden light otherwise hidden, and falls

1065
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:57,520
Speaker 2: directly upon your ear like sunlight. And Hall died in

1066
01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:01,920
Speaker 2: January of nineteen sixty four in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.

1067
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 1: Play was released to relatively muted reception in May nineteen

1068
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:10,200
Speaker 1: ninety nine, after having been rejected by every major label

1069
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:14,120
Speaker 1: until Richard Branson picked it up on his V two imprint.

1070
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 1: Moby said that his publicist sent the record to journalists

1071
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 1: and many of them pointedly wrote back saying that they

1072
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 1: weren't even gonna listen to it. He recalled the first

1073
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:25,480
Speaker 1: show that I did on the tour for Play was

1074
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 1: in the basement of the Virgin Megastore in Union Square,

1075
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 1: literally playing music while people were waiting in line buying CDs.

1076
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:35,840
Speaker 2: Maybe forty people came. Have you seen that Virgin Megastore

1077
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 2: videos with Dillinger Escape Plan where the guy just crowd

1078
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:43,960
Speaker 2: runs over the audience in the first two seconds of

1079
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:46,200
Speaker 2: the song. It's incredible. Oh.

1080
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:47,920
Speaker 1: I used to go to that Virgin megastore all the time,

1081
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:50,520
Speaker 1: Marrick greg because they were open past midnight, so you

1082
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:53,760
Speaker 1: would go in there like twelve oh one and buy

1083
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:56,160
Speaker 1: whatever album you couldn't wait. Remember how exciting that was

1084
01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 1: when he knew somebody's about to drop a new album.

1085
01:01:58,240 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 1: I guess they still do it, but it's not the

1086
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 1: same with your refreshing Spotify.

1087
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 2: I don't think I was. You never did that. No,

1088
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 2: I stopped buying new CDs out of financial necessity, like

1089
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:12,840
Speaker 2: high school. I just went to the CD warehouse and

1090
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 2: bought you stuff. What was the last album that I

1091
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:18,600
Speaker 2: was excited about coming out? It might have been something. No.

1092
01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 2: I mean, I still buy new stuff, but it's mostly

1093
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:25,160
Speaker 2: for the vinyl release. I don't really I don't pre

1094
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:26,440
Speaker 2: save things or whatever.

1095
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:29,280
Speaker 1: So giving this low turnout to the Virgin Megastore basement.

1096
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:33,520
Speaker 1: Performance expectations were low for Play. Moby really just wanted

1097
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:36,120
Speaker 1: to sell us much or slightly more than his biggest hit,

1098
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:38,840
Speaker 1: Everything Is Wrong, which would have amounted to slightly over

1099
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 1: two hundred thousand copies. Narrator Voice he would sell a

1100
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 1: lot more.

1101
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 2: But it took some time.

1102
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 1: In fact, it didn't do much on the charts for

1103
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:50,520
Speaker 1: the better part of a year. He would later say,

1104
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 1: almost a year after it came out in two thousand,

1105
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 1: I was opening up for Bush on an MTV Campus

1106
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:59,320
Speaker 1: Invasion tour. It was degrading for the most part. Their

1107
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:03,000
Speaker 1: audience had less than no interest in me. February in

1108
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:05,920
Speaker 1: two thousand, I was in Minnesota. I was depressed, and

1109
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:07,960
Speaker 1: my manager called me to tell me that Play was

1110
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:12,120
Speaker 1: number one in the UK and it beat out Santana's Supernatural.

1111
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:15,720
Speaker 1: I was like, but the record came out ten months ago.

1112
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 2: What a year for music? I mean, have you checked

1113
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:21,200
Speaker 2: the charts lately.

1114
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 1: That's when I knew all of a sudden that things

1115
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:27,560
Speaker 1: were different. Then it was number one in France and

1116
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:31,000
Speaker 1: Australia and Germany. It just kept piling on. The week

1117
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:34,040
Speaker 1: Play was released, he continued. It sold worldwide about six

1118
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:38,320
Speaker 1: thousand copies. Eleven months after Play was released, it was

1119
01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:41,200
Speaker 1: selling one hundred and fifty thousand copies a week. I

1120
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:44,320
Speaker 1: was on tour constantly drunk pretty much the entire time,

1121
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 1: and it was just a blur. And then all of

1122
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:49,160
Speaker 1: a sudden, movie stars started coming to my concerts, and

1123
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 1: I started getting invited to fancy parties. And suddenly the

1124
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:55,720
Speaker 1: journalists who wouldn't return my publicist calls, we're talking about

1125
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 1: doing cover stories. It was a really odd phenomenon.

1126
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:06,720
Speaker 2: He's so biteful, and I I understand it. I'm a

1127
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:10,720
Speaker 2: hypocrite for pointing out anyone's spite, but I will also

1128
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:16,440
Speaker 2: point out he achieved success, he made it, man, and

1129
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:19,240
Speaker 2: he's still winging constantly.

1130
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:21,920
Speaker 1: Well, he also achieved success earlier than that, too, but

1131
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 1: he just didn't like it and willfully drove his career

1132
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:25,760
Speaker 1: into a mountainside.

1133
01:04:26,080 --> 01:04:28,479
Speaker 2: Yeah. Man, it's like the Replacements. I mean that Bob

1134
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:32,160
Speaker 2: Meyer biography like kind of made me like them less

1135
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 2: because they got all these opportunities. Like you know, the

1136
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 2: log line of the Replacements is tremendously talented man who

1137
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 2: sabotaged their every chance at success. But they did that

1138
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:45,480
Speaker 2: in tremendously stupid ways, Like they were recording up in

1139
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:48,840
Speaker 2: the Catskills and they wanted to play upright bass on

1140
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 2: a song, so someone got them an upright bace like

1141
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 2: from that was presumably a nice upright pace to using

1142
01:04:55,400 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 2: the studio, and they smashed it. They used to burn

1143
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:02,919
Speaker 2: their per diems, which were one hundred dollars a day.

1144
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:05,920
Speaker 2: Do you know what a per diem today is for

1145
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:07,840
Speaker 2: like a touring musician, And this was like in the

1146
01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:11,160
Speaker 2: late eighties, early nineties. I'm sure it's like fifty yeah

1147
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 2: today if you're lucky. So yeah, man, I'm just like

1148
01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:18,840
Speaker 2: this generation musician. We're just like God, you babies.

1149
01:05:18,760 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 1: Talk about David Crosby, Hegel my friend David Crosby.

1150
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:26,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, your close personal friend David Crosby. People live in

1151
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:29,280
Speaker 2: their goddamn vans to like make music now, and you

1152
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 2: got these chuds notching sales numbers that no one would

1153
01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:36,880
Speaker 2: ever see again and crying into their offshore accounts over it. Also,

1154
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:41,080
Speaker 2: your family's like historically famous. You're telling me there wasn't

1155
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:44,680
Speaker 2: like trust fund money for him. There's streets named after

1156
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:46,400
Speaker 2: your family in New York, like.

1157
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:49,480
Speaker 1: The Crosby Street is named after Crosby Street.

1158
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:50,880
Speaker 2: It's not you know, it's his family.

1159
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:53,760
Speaker 1: I know his dad was a cinematographer, an Oscar winning

1160
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 1: Cinematogphy in Courtland is his middle name.

1161
01:05:56,440 --> 01:06:00,000
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, his mom was a Van Cortland. Right, that's right.

1162
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:02,040
Speaker 2: I forgot about that. And also his dad was not

1163
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 2: like something laboring and obscurity filmmaker one and one Oscar.

1164
01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:11,040
Speaker 2: I know, I know, here's a cinematographer on high noon.

1165
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 2: Where were we? You should cut a lot of that

1166
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:20,400
Speaker 2: because otherwise I'm gonna get more comments calling me like

1167
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:25,400
Speaker 2: a stereotypical music major, even though once again I minored

1168
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:28,720
Speaker 2: in music. I majored in English. I'm pretentious for a

1169
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:31,600
Speaker 2: different reason. We got a nice comment the other day

1170
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:37,800
Speaker 2: on Apple Podcasts. Yeah, mccolts won. Hilarious, funny and very interesting.

1171
01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:41,120
Speaker 2: I've been binge listening to all the episodes. Fantastic podcast

1172
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:46,960
Speaker 2: and very well done. Ah yeah, that's nice. As the

1173
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:49,320
Speaker 2: guy who gave us one star because there are ads

1174
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:51,400
Speaker 2: in it, you're gonna give us one star because we

1175
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 2: run ads and you're gonna bitch about like artistic purity.

1176
01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:58,800
Speaker 2: Off find that guy's IP address, visit him so I

1177
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:05,680
Speaker 2: can explain him my pastians. Do you see that's actually

1178
01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:11,480
Speaker 2: a Russell cro bit, my favorite Russia, My favorite Russell

1179
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:14,640
Speaker 2: crow tweet about maybe my favorite celebrity tweet of all time.

1180
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:17,560
Speaker 2: I think he's tweeting about climate change and someone is like,

1181
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 2: stick to acting homeboy or something, and Russell Crowe's response

1182
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:26,920
Speaker 2: tweet is simple facts One, I'm not your boy. Two

1183
01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:29,520
Speaker 2: like climate change is real or something. Send me your

1184
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 2: home address so I can visit you and explain my passions,

1185
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:40,680
Speaker 2: Like my favorite threat of all time, visit you and

1186
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:48,680
Speaker 2: explained my passions from an Australian. That's terrifying. As you

1187
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:51,160
Speaker 2: meditate on that, We'll be right back with more too

1188
01:07:51,240 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 2: much information after these messages, and now we're going to

1189
01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:09,640
Speaker 2: talk about gap ads. Oh yeah, yeah, this will really

1190
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 2: keep my blood pressure at a dull roar. This was

1191
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:17,760
Speaker 2: helped The sales figures were helped by one of the

1192
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:21,880
Speaker 2: most successful sink campaigns in the history of music, which

1193
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:27,400
Speaker 2: eventually saw every single song on play licensed for use

1194
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:32,360
Speaker 2: in film, TV or commercials. Wired magazine called the campaign

1195
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:36,479
Speaker 2: quote a licensing venture so staggeringly lucrative that the album

1196
01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:39,719
Speaker 2: was of financial success months before it reached its multi

1197
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:46,080
Speaker 2: platinum sales total. Also, it eventually sold twelve million copies worldwide.

1198
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:49,320
Speaker 2: Didn't even need these sinks. I mean, arguably the sinks

1199
01:08:49,320 --> 01:08:52,000
Speaker 2: helped you. Blah Blah Blah is the best selling electronic

1200
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:54,800
Speaker 2: album of all time. Moby himself could be seen in

1201
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:57,599
Speaker 2: ads for the Gap, and he appeared at the Salt

1202
01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:01,599
Speaker 2: Lake City Olympics, which is the whitest sentence of all time.

1203
01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:06,120
Speaker 2: This strategy actually dated back to the go era. Moby's managers,

1204
01:09:06,160 --> 01:09:09,160
Speaker 2: Marcy Weber and Barry Taylor were called the huge splash

1205
01:09:09,200 --> 01:09:13,360
Speaker 2: that Moby's atmospheric god moving over the face of the waters.

1206
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:16,519
Speaker 2: I actually liked that song quite a bit. Which soundtrack,

1207
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:19,200
Speaker 2: the climax to Michael Mann's Heat in nineteen ninety five,

1208
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:23,800
Speaker 2: had made in the film scoring industry, so they quote

1209
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:27,120
Speaker 2: invited every music supervisor in Hollywood to a party and

1210
01:09:27,240 --> 01:09:30,439
Speaker 2: dinner during the Independent Slam Dance Festival in nineteen ninety

1211
01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:33,000
Speaker 2: six to try and tap that market. So then when

1212
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:35,880
Speaker 2: play came around, Barry Taylor told Wired, we made a

1213
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 2: conscious effort to create a marketing plan that had nothing

1214
01:09:38,360 --> 01:09:42,040
Speaker 2: to do with radio. Consequently, Porcelain played on behalf of

1215
01:09:42,080 --> 01:09:47,040
Speaker 2: Bailey's Irish Cream and Nordstrom find My Baby for American Express.

1216
01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:49,720
Speaker 2: On April twentieth, two thousand, almost eleven months after the

1217
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:52,880
Speaker 2: album's release, the producers of a British television program faxed

1218
01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 2: request to use the lone album track that hadn't yet

1219
01:09:56,200 --> 01:10:00,640
Speaker 2: been licensed. No one actually expected seven, a brief, unremarkable

1220
01:10:00,640 --> 01:10:04,160
Speaker 2: bit of incidental music, to be purchased. When the facts arrived,

1221
01:10:04,600 --> 01:10:09,040
Speaker 2: Barry Taylor recalled, we celebrated. David Steele, head of special

1222
01:10:09,040 --> 01:10:11,920
Speaker 2: projects including licensing at Mobey's label V two, told The

1223
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:13,720
Speaker 2: New York Times in two thousand and one it was

1224
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:16,320
Speaker 2: very short lived, but we made a lot of money

1225
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:18,519
Speaker 2: in all, he told the paper. They signed over one

1226
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:21,759
Speaker 2: hundred licenses in North America alone, for which Moby's cut

1227
01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:24,200
Speaker 2: was as of March two thousand and one, around a

1228
01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:27,600
Speaker 2: million dollars. That's it. It seems low. Yeah, go to

1229
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:30,840
Speaker 2: the customary inflation calculator, all right, So like two point

1230
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:34,679
Speaker 2: three million, that still sounds low. A two point three

1231
01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 2: out million from one hundred sinks? What does that breakdown too?

1232
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:40,320
Speaker 2: Like ten thousand a sink? That's about right. I mean,

1233
01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:42,519
Speaker 2: because this was also the kind of the Nasson era

1234
01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:44,439
Speaker 2: of that really I mean, people were a lot of

1235
01:10:44,479 --> 01:10:47,040
Speaker 2: ad campaigns are probably using library and stock music. At

1236
01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:48,160
Speaker 2: the time, it.

1237
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:50,240
Speaker 1: Cous like seven grand they get a song for the

1238
01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:54,240
Speaker 1: Paul Anka podcast, like an old standard for a podcast.

1239
01:10:54,360 --> 01:10:56,880
Speaker 1: We didn't have the rights to put on social.

1240
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:58,519
Speaker 2: Because people got smarter about it, they wisened up. This

1241
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:01,280
Speaker 2: was kind of the wild west of it. Really. Per

1242
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:03,639
Speaker 2: that New York Times article, what.

1243
01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:05,920
Speaker 1: We would tell Hot Press Magazine when I licensed the

1244
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:08,439
Speaker 1: music from Play. The goal was simply to get people

1245
01:11:08,479 --> 01:11:11,719
Speaker 1: to hear the music. Most of the licenses weren't particularly lucrative,

1246
01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:14,479
Speaker 1: but they enabled people to hear the music because otherwise

1247
01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:17,519
Speaker 1: that record wasn't being heard. In a different interview, he

1248
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:20,559
Speaker 1: split some Harris about the every song was licensed thing.

1249
01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:22,840
Speaker 2: It's a misleading truth, he told.

1250
01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:25,559
Speaker 1: American Songwriter in two thousand and five. Yes, every song

1251
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:27,800
Speaker 1: was licensed, but some of the songs were licensed to

1252
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:31,240
Speaker 1: tiny independent film productions that were never seen by anyone.

1253
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:34,240
Speaker 1: One of the songs was licensed for an Australian student

1254
01:11:34,320 --> 01:11:37,479
Speaker 1: film by some guy in college in Sydney. He continued,

1255
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:40,759
Speaker 1: Play became successful in Los Angeles before it became successful

1256
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:44,160
Speaker 1: anywhere else. We started getting licensing requests from movies and

1257
01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:46,400
Speaker 1: TV shows, and then it just took off from there.

1258
01:11:47,080 --> 01:11:50,800
Speaker 1: The earlier adopters were music supervisors in Los Angeles. When

1259
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:53,479
Speaker 1: opportunities to get the music heard came along, we jumped

1260
01:11:53,479 --> 01:11:56,240
Speaker 1: at them. At that time, there was really no radio

1261
01:11:56,280 --> 01:11:59,479
Speaker 1: support that informed all the licensing, anything we could do

1262
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:02,400
Speaker 1: to try to get more people to hear the music. Haigel,

1263
01:12:02,479 --> 01:12:05,040
Speaker 1: as a very principled musician, how do you feel about

1264
01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:05,800
Speaker 1: that strategy?

1265
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:10,559
Speaker 2: I mean, again, at the time for a guy who

1266
01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:15,120
Speaker 2: was already like a live draw and a semi famous musician, like, yeah,

1267
01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:18,599
Speaker 2: that's a little annoying, but also, as I mentioned later,

1268
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:25,040
Speaker 2: very precient. Nobody makes any money nowadays except from touring

1269
01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:29,200
Speaker 2: and licensing. Uh So, obviously that conversation is disintegrated. But

1270
01:12:30,120 --> 01:12:32,640
Speaker 2: you know, it's interesting he's so defensive about it. Man,

1271
01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:34,920
Speaker 2: I was reading this interview where he was like, he

1272
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:36,840
Speaker 2: talked about playing in punk and hardcore bands, and he

1273
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:40,400
Speaker 2: was like, where I was playing in those bands. Some

1274
01:12:40,439 --> 01:12:43,160
Speaker 2: people considered playing a show to be selling out, some

1275
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:46,040
Speaker 2: people considered making a record to be selling out. So

1276
01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:50,840
Speaker 2: there's always been that those hardliners. But I don't know, Man,

1277
01:12:51,160 --> 01:12:57,439
Speaker 2: one hundred sinks for eighteen songs is aggressive like, that's wild.

1278
01:12:58,160 --> 01:13:00,400
Speaker 2: That's a lot. I just yeah, I mean, I mean

1279
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:03,840
Speaker 2: it's fine. I just it's not some like come from

1280
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:07,719
Speaker 2: behind story. It's not like some unsigned guy. He had

1281
01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:12,639
Speaker 2: Richard Branson's label doing this for him. Like, come on, man,

1282
01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:15,599
Speaker 2: it's not it's not an indie band that made their

1283
01:13:15,640 --> 01:13:18,839
Speaker 2: career off a single sink in a like an iPod

1284
01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:20,680
Speaker 2: commercial back in the day. I mean, he had a

1285
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:23,720
Speaker 2: multimillion dollar corporation doing this placement for him. He had

1286
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:28,400
Speaker 2: two managers. Like, there's nothing grassroots or independent about that

1287
01:13:28,520 --> 01:13:31,400
Speaker 2: at this point, which is kind of the justification. It's

1288
01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:34,400
Speaker 2: just a rich white dude getting richer. Did you ever

1289
01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:38,360
Speaker 2: read that thing in his memoir about Lona del Rey. No,

1290
01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:41,919
Speaker 2: he was like trying to trying to, you know, boinker

1291
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:45,160
Speaker 2: and in the biblical sense, the biblical sense. Yeah. And

1292
01:13:45,439 --> 01:13:47,799
Speaker 2: they were in his apartment and I think he wanted

1293
01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:50,439
Speaker 2: to like play a song or something, and but he

1294
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:52,680
Speaker 2: was like, oh, that's on my other floor or like

1295
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:55,200
Speaker 2: the hard driver laptop is on the other floor of

1296
01:13:55,240 --> 01:13:57,360
Speaker 2: my apartment. And she was like, you know, you're the man,

1297
01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:00,240
Speaker 2: and he said it took him a secon and to

1298
01:14:00,280 --> 01:14:02,240
Speaker 2: realize she didn't mean that as a compliment. She meant

1299
01:14:02,240 --> 01:14:05,559
Speaker 2: that he as like a straight white musician with a

1300
01:14:05,640 --> 01:14:10,720
Speaker 2: two floor apartment in downtown Manhattan, was like the system

1301
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:12,720
Speaker 2: and he was like and that that kind of took

1302
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:15,840
Speaker 2: me back. It was like, yeah, dude, I don't know, man,

1303
01:14:15,880 --> 01:14:18,720
Speaker 2: it's such a thorny conversation and like, I've given up

1304
01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:20,840
Speaker 2: on it. Man, Like I would kill, for a think,

1305
01:14:20,960 --> 01:14:23,280
Speaker 2: for any of my music right now. You know, it'd

1306
01:14:23,320 --> 01:14:27,839
Speaker 2: be great any song anyone, even the bad ones, especially

1307
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:31,040
Speaker 2: the bad ones, especially the bad Yeah. But it's just like, yeah,

1308
01:14:31,080 --> 01:14:33,479
Speaker 2: it wrinkles a bit. And I think the reason that

1309
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:36,439
Speaker 2: this pisses me off the most is that, you know,

1310
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:38,639
Speaker 2: none of these people knew who her a whole word

1311
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:41,120
Speaker 2: it was. He didn't even thank them in the liner notes.

1312
01:14:41,160 --> 01:14:44,080
Speaker 2: He never even named these people. He thanks Alan Lomax

1313
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:46,800
Speaker 2: in the in the in the liner notes, but whe

1314
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:49,920
Speaker 2: guy who found it, Yeah, you know. So that's why

1315
01:14:50,040 --> 01:14:52,080
Speaker 2: I think it leaves the worst taste in my mouth. Man.

1316
01:14:52,240 --> 01:14:54,040
Speaker 1: Have you ever invited a girl over to your house

1317
01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:57,720
Speaker 1: to play or a song you wrote?

1318
01:14:58,160 --> 01:15:00,760
Speaker 2: No, I usually did that when I went to their

1319
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:06,479
Speaker 2: house and they had a guitar. Fair Also in that interview,

1320
01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:09,600
Speaker 2: Mobe talks about his drinking days, which is inspired me

1321
01:15:09,680 --> 01:15:13,800
Speaker 2: to go on this tangent. He said, once when I

1322
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:15,960
Speaker 2: was in Belgrade, I got drunk with all these ex

1323
01:15:16,040 --> 01:15:19,960
Speaker 2: soldiers who introduced me to concrete. Basically, you take half

1324
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:22,360
Speaker 2: pint beer and pour in a load of vodka. The

1325
01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:25,280
Speaker 2: weird thing is it tastes really good. He also contends

1326
01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:27,400
Speaker 2: he had a wild night out with Tommy Lee and

1327
01:15:27,560 --> 01:15:30,840
Speaker 2: Pantera's Dimebag Daryl, during which at the end they all

1328
01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:34,160
Speaker 2: decided to start a band together, and then Dimebag was murdered.

1329
01:15:34,320 --> 01:15:38,720
Speaker 2: I investigated this drink, concrete, and I found it in

1330
01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:41,800
Speaker 2: a Wikipedia entry for it in Russian, where it is

1331
01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:51,400
Speaker 2: called yorshe, which translates to a little spiky fish. I

1332
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:54,560
Speaker 2: don't know where he got concrete. Maybe that's the Serbian.

1333
01:15:54,360 --> 01:15:56,439
Speaker 1: Because it wasn't he in the band a wall. Maybe

1334
01:15:56,439 --> 01:15:57,200
Speaker 1: that's part of it.

1335
01:15:57,280 --> 01:16:00,519
Speaker 2: Haha, congratulations, it's the worst local the.

1336
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:13,559
Speaker 5: Show callback call back comedy timing.

1337
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:16,280
Speaker 1: You know what the most important part of comedy is?

1338
01:16:21,120 --> 01:16:22,759
Speaker 2: You say it? Timing?

1339
01:16:26,920 --> 01:16:27,040
Speaker 1: Uh?

1340
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:32,320
Speaker 2: Anyway, yorsh friend of the friend of the pod. That

1341
01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:35,280
Speaker 2: is a hardcore alcoholic drink. I will I will tell

1342
01:16:35,320 --> 01:16:38,840
Speaker 2: you vodka in beer. It sounds like awful. I guess

1343
01:16:38,840 --> 01:16:40,400
Speaker 2: they do that with They do that, don't they do

1344
01:16:40,439 --> 01:16:43,160
Speaker 2: that with the They do it in the UK they

1345
01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:48,080
Speaker 2: call it a snake bite. Oh yeah, Vodkas inCider. Anyway,

1346
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:50,599
Speaker 2: many people seem to think that we pitched the music

1347
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:54,879
Speaker 2: for ads only. Obie's UK manager Eric Harrold told hitmaster

1348
01:16:54,920 --> 01:16:57,240
Speaker 2: dot Com in two thousand and three, Where's the truth

1349
01:16:57,320 --> 01:16:59,920
Speaker 2: is that we just responded to the requests. The ads

1350
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:02,920
Speaker 2: selected were very carefully chosen, and we actually turned down

1351
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:06,400
Speaker 2: more than we accepted. It is also somewhat hypocritical to

1352
01:17:06,479 --> 01:17:09,360
Speaker 2: label Moby the ad guy when most of his music

1353
01:17:09,439 --> 01:17:11,960
Speaker 2: was really used in film and television and the advertising

1354
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:15,120
Speaker 2: usage was fairly limited. I'm gonna still label him the

1355
01:17:15,120 --> 01:17:17,880
Speaker 2: ad guy. Moby and his management were in the Review

1356
01:17:17,880 --> 01:17:20,599
Speaker 2: Mirror exceptionally ahead of their time in pimping play Out

1357
01:17:20,640 --> 01:17:24,360
Speaker 2: to whoever fancied a go over fancied a bit of

1358
01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:25,519
Speaker 2: a knees up with her.

1359
01:17:25,880 --> 01:17:29,840
Speaker 1: Oh wow, knee trembler first of all, knees up as

1360
01:17:29,880 --> 01:17:32,000
Speaker 1: a dance knee trembler.

1361
01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:35,479
Speaker 2: That's interesting. The album came out literally two weeks before

1362
01:17:35,520 --> 01:17:38,880
Speaker 2: the launch of Napster signaled the end of the music industries.

1363
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:42,440
Speaker 2: People know it, and nobody would be bulking at licensing

1364
01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:45,599
Speaker 2: songs once Spotify hit the US about a decade later,

1365
01:17:46,040 --> 01:17:48,800
Speaker 2: and not content with simply beating the corpse of the

1366
01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:53,000
Speaker 2: music industry, set about defiling it. If you were sweedish,

1367
01:17:53,040 --> 01:17:55,640
Speaker 2: you owe us an apology for Daniel Eck just a

1368
01:17:55,680 --> 01:17:59,800
Speaker 2: note to any of our listeners. However, plays engagement with

1369
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:03,240
Speaker 2: and or straight up theft of black people's literal voices

1370
01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:07,200
Speaker 2: to craft platinum selling car commercials hasn't aged particularly well.

1371
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:11,080
Speaker 2: It's worth noting that of the first five singles released

1372
01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:14,080
Speaker 2: from Play, four of them were based on this rubric,

1373
01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:17,840
Speaker 2: oh and one of the album's B sides, Flower, was

1374
01:18:17,880 --> 01:18:20,920
Speaker 2: also lifted from a Lomax recording, in this case Green

1375
01:18:21,040 --> 01:18:24,559
Speaker 2: Sally Up, as performed by Maddy Gardner, Mary Gardner and

1376
01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:28,720
Speaker 2: jesse Lee Pratcher, oh and also plays closing track My

1377
01:18:28,920 --> 01:18:33,280
Speaker 2: Weakness contains a manipulated sample of a vocal performance of

1378
01:18:33,479 --> 01:18:39,960
Speaker 2: dance Niwindigaco di Tiga, a truditionial Kanak song performed by

1379
01:18:39,960 --> 01:18:43,760
Speaker 2: the indigenous people of Tiga Island near Malaysia, recorded by

1380
01:18:43,800 --> 01:18:47,680
Speaker 2: a French ethno musicologist asked for the source of the

1381
01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:51,200
Speaker 2: sample in two thousand and one on his website, Moby said,

1382
01:18:51,520 --> 01:18:54,880
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's in some strange African dialect, so

1383
01:18:54,960 --> 01:18:59,040
Speaker 2: I have no idea what's being said. Obviously, Africa and

1384
01:18:59,080 --> 01:19:00,759
Speaker 2: Malaysia are different places.

1385
01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:04,320
Speaker 1: Hilariously, at least one person tried the warn movie about

1386
01:19:04,360 --> 01:19:07,400
Speaker 1: all this appropriation. He told The New York Times that

1387
01:19:07,479 --> 01:19:10,280
Speaker 1: when playing early versions of the play material for friends,

1388
01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:14,240
Speaker 1: one said he should be cautious. The fact that I

1389
01:19:14,280 --> 01:19:16,880
Speaker 1: was a white kid from the twentieth century sampling African

1390
01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:20,120
Speaker 1: American vocals from the early twentieth century had never even

1391
01:19:20,120 --> 01:19:21,479
Speaker 1: crossed my mind, he said.

1392
01:19:22,040 --> 01:19:25,240
Speaker 6: In the long, non illustrious history of white people pilfering

1393
01:19:25,280 --> 01:19:29,720
Speaker 6: African American culture, have I just perpetrated that I'm motivated

1394
01:19:29,720 --> 01:19:31,439
Speaker 6: by a love of the music and by a love

1395
01:19:31,479 --> 01:19:34,000
Speaker 6: of the performances, And I really hope I haven't done

1396
01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:34,679
Speaker 6: anything bad.

1397
01:19:35,600 --> 01:19:40,400
Speaker 1: Narrator voice, HEO just perpetrated that what we told Rolling

1398
01:19:40,400 --> 01:19:43,599
Speaker 1: Stone that he considered Natural Blues his favorite of plays singles,

1399
01:19:43,640 --> 01:19:45,960
Speaker 1: but added it almost didn't make it on the record.

1400
01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:48,160
Speaker 1: I had some friends over and I was playing them

1401
01:19:48,200 --> 01:19:50,439
Speaker 1: songs off the record, and they thought it was just

1402
01:19:50,520 --> 01:19:52,280
Speaker 1: too weird. You have a point about this.

1403
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:55,040
Speaker 2: Well, it's unclear if it was the same friend with

1404
01:19:55,080 --> 01:19:59,559
Speaker 2: an understanding of racio dynamics in both instances, if you

1405
01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:02,960
Speaker 2: were a love warned Moby about using black people's voices

1406
01:20:02,960 --> 01:20:06,000
Speaker 2: to make music to shop for khakis too, TMI wants

1407
01:20:06,040 --> 01:20:09,120
Speaker 2: to hear from you. No, we don't, Yeah, we don't. Actually,

1408
01:20:10,600 --> 01:20:15,040
Speaker 2: you know, man appropriation is especially thorny in music, right,

1409
01:20:15,200 --> 01:20:18,719
Speaker 2: because that's the history of music. I mean, jazz, America's

1410
01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:22,439
Speaker 2: only native art form other than burlesque, comes from the

1411
01:20:22,520 --> 01:20:27,640
Speaker 2: literal marriage of African rhythms and pitch blending with European

1412
01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:31,280
Speaker 2: harmony and European instruments. Right, So that's what I find

1413
01:20:31,320 --> 01:20:36,400
Speaker 2: so truly fascinating about it and this country. But feel confused. No,

1414
01:20:36,439 --> 01:20:36,760
Speaker 2: I was just.

1415
01:20:36,760 --> 01:20:40,200
Speaker 1: Trying to think of other elements of black culture that

1416
01:20:40,240 --> 01:20:44,920
Speaker 1: have been appropriated more than just in the last forty

1417
01:20:45,040 --> 01:20:45,960
Speaker 1: or so years.

1418
01:20:46,200 --> 01:20:51,240
Speaker 2: I mean black fashion, more recently, everything black fashion, rapping,

1419
01:20:51,880 --> 01:20:55,920
Speaker 2: GJ culture is black from Jamaica originally. And then the Bronz's.

1420
01:20:55,520 --> 01:20:57,360
Speaker 1: Interesting that of all the things like I can't think

1421
01:20:57,400 --> 01:21:01,200
Speaker 1: of like pilfering, like making this up, but like black

1422
01:21:01,240 --> 01:21:04,320
Speaker 1: painting styles for example, Like it's interesting that music is

1423
01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:07,559
Speaker 1: the thing that we tend to raid from that culture. Sure.

1424
01:21:07,640 --> 01:21:09,080
Speaker 2: I mean I think a lot of that breaks down

1425
01:21:09,080 --> 01:21:11,599
Speaker 2: into access. I mean a lot of the black artists

1426
01:21:11,720 --> 01:21:16,400
Speaker 2: who were familiar in the popular consciousness, like Bosquiocht got

1427
01:21:16,439 --> 01:21:18,960
Speaker 2: I can't name very many others, but it was an

1428
01:21:19,000 --> 01:21:21,680
Speaker 2: access issue, man. I mean some of the some of

1429
01:21:21,720 --> 01:21:24,800
Speaker 2: the people who are you see in art museums as

1430
01:21:24,880 --> 01:21:32,320
Speaker 2: black artists. Hendy Wiley, Barack Obama's portraitist famously I named two.

1431
01:21:32,600 --> 01:21:34,360
Speaker 2: How about that. I'm a good I'm one of the

1432
01:21:34,360 --> 01:21:38,040
Speaker 2: good white You're an ally? No, But I think it

1433
01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:39,519
Speaker 2: was an access issue. I mean a lot of these

1434
01:21:39,560 --> 01:21:44,040
Speaker 2: guys weren't given the opportunity to pursue the arts in

1435
01:21:44,120 --> 01:21:47,559
Speaker 2: any way until the gi Bill. You know, if you

1436
01:21:47,600 --> 01:21:50,360
Speaker 2: go to like a lot of big Afro art exhibits

1437
01:21:51,280 --> 01:21:55,400
Speaker 2: post war, a lot of them are xgis who were

1438
01:21:55,800 --> 01:21:57,040
Speaker 2: were able to do that, and then a lot of

1439
01:21:57,040 --> 01:21:59,600
Speaker 2: the pre war stuff is slotted into sort of like

1440
01:21:59,640 --> 01:22:04,240
Speaker 2: the American primitivist styles or it's like, you know, Bill

1441
01:22:04,280 --> 01:22:06,519
Speaker 2: Traylor is one of them, Who's this guy who just

1442
01:22:06,560 --> 01:22:09,439
Speaker 2: like painted on garbage because that was the only like

1443
01:22:09,680 --> 01:22:13,040
Speaker 2: scrap would you know? It became a celebrated outsider artist,

1444
01:22:13,439 --> 01:22:16,840
Speaker 2: or it's slot slotted into that somewhat ghettoizing term of

1445
01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:23,680
Speaker 2: outsider art, dehumanizing term, literally othering term outsider art. You know,

1446
01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:28,320
Speaker 2: uh yeah, but music is so thorny man. I mean,

1447
01:22:28,360 --> 01:22:32,560
Speaker 2: Miles Davis's vans were extremely integrated. Charlie Parker's bands were integrated.

1448
01:22:32,760 --> 01:22:35,120
Speaker 2: They didn't care as long as people could play. And

1449
01:22:35,240 --> 01:22:37,280
Speaker 2: I think that is beautiful. But I also think the

1450
01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:42,040
Speaker 2: conversation around it has evolved to the point that if

1451
01:22:42,040 --> 01:22:45,439
Speaker 2: you're gonna do this, like at least give credit. And

1452
01:22:45,560 --> 01:22:50,880
Speaker 2: he doesn't. He doesn't. He confused Malaysian people for African people,

1453
01:22:51,200 --> 01:22:54,200
Speaker 2: like he thanks Alan Omex again in the liner notes,

1454
01:22:54,800 --> 01:22:57,200
Speaker 2: does not name any of these women, does not name

1455
01:22:57,240 --> 01:23:01,559
Speaker 2: any of these artists, Like it's just lazy man. I mean,

1456
01:23:01,600 --> 01:23:07,599
Speaker 2: thanking the straight white guy who himself, you know, profited

1457
01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:10,519
Speaker 2: off of these people's voices and not think those people

1458
01:23:10,640 --> 01:23:14,320
Speaker 2: is galling. I really have a problem with that. And

1459
01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:16,920
Speaker 2: it is bad enough that, like, you know, if you're

1460
01:23:16,960 --> 01:23:19,439
Speaker 2: playing rock music at all, or anything derived from rock

1461
01:23:19,520 --> 01:23:22,360
Speaker 2: music as I have most of my life, and even

1462
01:23:22,439 --> 01:23:25,360
Speaker 2: studying jazz, like certainly like you're in debt to black people.

1463
01:23:25,439 --> 01:23:28,640
Speaker 2: I'm sorry you are, but rock and roll would not

1464
01:23:28,720 --> 01:23:33,320
Speaker 2: exist without the blues, and the backbeat is essentially like

1465
01:23:33,800 --> 01:23:36,559
Speaker 2: taken from the Clave, which is an Afro Caribbean rhythm.

1466
01:23:36,600 --> 01:23:41,040
Speaker 2: Like you don't get any music except for like Western

1467
01:23:41,080 --> 01:23:46,720
Speaker 2: classical and pure appellation folk without black people man and

1468
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:51,240
Speaker 2: writing them out of these massive, massive successes, not just

1469
01:23:51,240 --> 01:23:54,320
Speaker 2: twelve million copies sold, but the collective impact that this

1470
01:23:54,479 --> 01:23:57,400
Speaker 2: made on culture through all of these sync license and everything.

1471
01:23:58,200 --> 01:24:01,120
Speaker 2: It's like one of the most glaring examples of whitewashing

1472
01:24:01,160 --> 01:24:04,040
Speaker 2: that I can actually think of ever. But also, you know,

1473
01:24:04,320 --> 01:24:06,360
Speaker 2: in the context, this was just kind of part for

1474
01:24:06,400 --> 01:24:09,960
Speaker 2: the coorus, I mean Prodigy, Chemical Brothers, Fat Boy, Slim,

1475
01:24:10,040 --> 01:24:14,200
Speaker 2: Daft Punk, Porous Head, all white and all using stuff

1476
01:24:14,439 --> 01:24:17,439
Speaker 2: from everything from like reggae to soul, R and B

1477
01:24:17,520 --> 01:24:20,120
Speaker 2: and funk, deep Cuts, Porta's Head were using a lot

1478
01:24:20,120 --> 01:24:23,080
Speaker 2: of so called library music, which is music that was

1479
01:24:23,120 --> 01:24:26,759
Speaker 2: recorded for stock use in film and TV. The British

1480
01:24:26,800 --> 01:24:31,879
Speaker 2: library music has quite extensive stuff, but those were essentially

1481
01:24:31,960 --> 01:24:35,840
Speaker 2: white British musicians being told to produce versions of soul

1482
01:24:36,120 --> 01:24:39,000
Speaker 2: and jazz that were going to be free to use

1483
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:41,560
Speaker 2: in TV. And this is you know, all part of

1484
01:24:41,560 --> 01:24:43,800
Speaker 2: the larger conversation that two straight white guys should not

1485
01:24:43,840 --> 01:24:45,840
Speaker 2: be having. But this is into the hip hop era too,

1486
01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:48,639
Speaker 2: and there had been conversations about sampling and hip hop,

1487
01:24:48,680 --> 01:24:52,000
Speaker 2: although they were flipped and be like, how dare these

1488
01:24:52,120 --> 01:24:54,960
Speaker 2: black people take songs from white people? You know, Steely

1489
01:24:55,080 --> 01:24:58,760
Speaker 2: Dan successfully sued the rappers who used a sample from

1490
01:24:58,760 --> 01:25:01,640
Speaker 2: one of their sitter guns. He used black Cow. I

1491
01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:03,679
Speaker 2: think this was a little less in the conversation because

1492
01:25:03,680 --> 01:25:05,800
Speaker 2: at this point people were just talking about the East

1493
01:25:05,840 --> 01:25:09,000
Speaker 2: Coast West Coast feud and tupacin Biggie getting shot. But

1494
01:25:09,760 --> 01:25:13,759
Speaker 2: you know, I remember did he getting flak fod taking

1495
01:25:14,120 --> 01:25:18,240
Speaker 2: I'll be missing you essentially whole cloth, not really changing

1496
01:25:18,240 --> 01:25:22,679
Speaker 2: a note out of Sting's pocket. I know right that

1497
01:25:22,880 --> 01:25:24,960
Speaker 2: poor starving Sting.

1498
01:25:25,280 --> 01:25:30,479
Speaker 1: Can't even afford a last name yeah, or a new base.

1499
01:25:33,520 --> 01:25:36,080
Speaker 2: He had to buy one less sex swing for his

1500
01:25:36,520 --> 01:25:43,960
Speaker 2: palatial mansion with true Trudy Styler, sorry, one fewer sex swing.

1501
01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:48,160
Speaker 2: The absurdity of sampling law and copyright law around his

1502
01:25:48,280 --> 01:25:50,519
Speaker 2: time is really illustrated very well by a case that

1503
01:25:50,600 --> 01:25:54,360
Speaker 2: Lomax is in fact connected to That's right, Alan Lomax

1504
01:25:54,479 --> 01:25:58,080
Speaker 2: is a writing credit on jay Z's Takeover, which is

1505
01:25:58,120 --> 01:26:01,360
Speaker 2: a Nase Diss track follow Us on the musical Journey.

1506
01:26:01,439 --> 01:26:04,719
Speaker 2: The song Takeover is based partially on a short sample

1507
01:26:04,760 --> 01:26:08,240
Speaker 2: from Sound of the Police by Karaswan Whoop Whoop so

1508
01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:11,679
Speaker 2: Sound of the Poos that uses a sample of Inside

1509
01:26:11,760 --> 01:26:16,040
Speaker 2: Looking Out by Grand Funk Railroad. However, Grand Funk recovering

1510
01:26:16,160 --> 01:26:20,800
Speaker 2: the Animals song of the same name. Now the Animals

1511
01:26:20,840 --> 01:26:23,519
Speaker 2: based that song off of a song called Rosie, which

1512
01:26:23,560 --> 01:26:25,920
Speaker 2: they learned from a recording made by Alan Lomax of

1513
01:26:25,960 --> 01:26:27,840
Speaker 2: a chain gang at Parchment Farm, which is one of

1514
01:26:27,880 --> 01:26:30,720
Speaker 2: the most famous work camps in the South musically in

1515
01:26:30,800 --> 01:26:33,840
Speaker 2: nineteen forty eight, and Lomax, as he did with most

1516
01:26:33,840 --> 01:26:36,040
Speaker 2: of these songs and kind of a knock against him,

1517
01:26:36,080 --> 01:26:40,160
Speaker 2: owned the copyright to that recording. But listening to the

1518
01:26:40,320 --> 01:26:45,400
Speaker 2: Rosy Lomax recording, it sounds more similar to a song

1519
01:26:45,439 --> 01:26:49,000
Speaker 2: by Nina Simone called Be My Husband. That is, it's

1520
01:26:49,080 --> 01:26:52,599
Speaker 2: almost it's the exact same song, just gender flipped, and

1521
01:26:52,680 --> 01:26:56,040
Speaker 2: that song is technically written by her piece of husband

1522
01:26:56,040 --> 01:26:59,360
Speaker 2: and manager Andrew Stroud, so he owns the copyright on

1523
01:26:59,400 --> 01:27:04,440
Speaker 2: Anina simon own version of a song that was ownerless

1524
01:27:04,600 --> 01:27:07,640
Speaker 2: because it was sung on a work camp. And then,

1525
01:27:07,680 --> 01:27:12,320
Speaker 2: further complicating this whole mess, the KRS one sample is

1526
01:27:12,360 --> 01:27:16,200
Speaker 2: based off of an instrumental jam that Grand Funk went

1527
01:27:16,240 --> 01:27:20,760
Speaker 2: into as part of their cover. So that has nothing

1528
01:27:20,800 --> 01:27:22,680
Speaker 2: to do with the animals that that was just a

1529
01:27:22,760 --> 01:27:26,000
Speaker 2: jam they came up with. But Grandfunk Railroad are credited

1530
01:27:26,000 --> 01:27:28,639
Speaker 2: as songwriters on this jay Z track. And also, as

1531
01:27:28,640 --> 01:27:30,559
Speaker 2: I mentioned at the top of the episode, David Getta

1532
01:27:31,720 --> 01:27:35,280
Speaker 2: his song Hey Mama is also built around this rosy

1533
01:27:35,439 --> 01:27:39,960
Speaker 2: vocal line. So let's trace the absurd lineage of all

1534
01:27:40,000 --> 01:27:43,280
Speaker 2: this shit and see if we can make any sense

1535
01:27:43,320 --> 01:27:46,920
Speaker 2: of copyright law. All right, here's Rosie recorded in nineteen

1536
01:27:46,960 --> 01:27:59,040
Speaker 2: forty eight at Parchment Farm. Em Woman, Gala, Woman, Gala.

1537
01:28:00,080 --> 01:28:11,280
Speaker 4: God beyond Man.

1538
01:28:12,640 --> 01:28:13,160
Speaker 2: It's funny.

1539
01:28:13,280 --> 01:28:16,200
Speaker 1: The only song I know intimately of all the ones

1540
01:28:16,240 --> 01:28:17,679
Speaker 1: you're gonna play is the animal song.

1541
01:28:18,479 --> 01:28:20,960
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, here's the animals doing inside, looking out.

1542
01:28:21,600 --> 01:28:24,599
Speaker 1: Sitting here lonely like a broken man.

1543
01:28:25,720 --> 01:28:30,880
Speaker 2: So my time in Dona, Yes, I came, I was involved.

1544
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:36,200
Speaker 2: This around, didn't mean but I don't want you simple

1545
01:28:38,200 --> 01:28:41,439
Speaker 2: And then covering the animals, we have Grand Funk. As

1546
01:28:41,439 --> 01:28:43,880
Speaker 2: I mentioned, though, the portion of Karras. Sample comes from

1547
01:28:43,920 --> 01:28:45,240
Speaker 2: their Jam in the Middle.

1548
01:29:00,439 --> 01:29:03,400
Speaker 1: And Cars One sample that for Sounds of the Police.

1549
01:29:04,240 --> 01:29:06,760
Speaker 1: It's the whitest that title's ever been said.

1550
01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:15,280
Speaker 7: Stun clear, donnuck your hut, Sun, where I start your cow?

1551
01:29:15,400 --> 01:29:17,200
Speaker 7: W where I w w out?

1552
01:29:17,640 --> 01:29:18,280
Speaker 2: We run too?

1553
01:29:18,400 --> 01:29:18,639
Speaker 1: Yup?

1554
01:29:18,960 --> 01:29:22,000
Speaker 7: Please soun jump were put on the fuck I notice

1555
01:29:22,000 --> 01:29:22,559
Speaker 7: where I'm back?

1556
01:29:22,800 --> 01:29:25,560
Speaker 2: You don't like how I hacked selling cracks? Would you

1557
01:29:25,680 --> 01:29:26,240
Speaker 2: be doing that?

1558
01:29:26,520 --> 01:29:27,560
Speaker 7: I got to say, see you?

1559
01:29:28,000 --> 01:29:32,640
Speaker 1: How would be? And jay Z sample that for the

1560
01:29:32,680 --> 01:29:35,240
Speaker 1: track Takeover on two thousand and one's the Blueprint.

1561
01:29:35,439 --> 01:29:39,280
Speaker 2: We had the Jacap freak. Wait we run in it stretch?

1562
01:29:40,120 --> 01:29:44,160
Speaker 7: Oh we spoke running this wretched Chris Sidney, We run

1563
01:29:44,160 --> 01:29:48,680
Speaker 7: in this wretch. We run to yup. A wise man

1564
01:29:48,800 --> 01:29:51,400
Speaker 7: told me don't argue with pools because people from a

1565
01:29:51,520 --> 01:29:54,280
Speaker 7: distance can't tell who was tools to start with the

1566
01:29:54,479 --> 01:29:57,879
Speaker 7: chout from Rome, please leave it alone, don't.

1567
01:29:57,640 --> 01:30:01,200
Speaker 2: Go Raps and Rome and David Ghetto featuring Nicki Minaj

1568
01:30:01,320 --> 01:30:10,840
Speaker 2: and bb Rexa singing the hook later. So that's probably

1569
01:30:10,920 --> 01:30:12,760
Speaker 2: actually Alan Lomax recording.

1570
01:30:18,439 --> 01:30:23,000
Speaker 7: Yes to be a Woman, Yes, Yes, can tell.

1571
01:30:22,840 --> 01:30:23,479
Speaker 3: Me when you win?

1572
01:30:23,840 --> 01:30:28,200
Speaker 2: Absurd insane world we live in anyway, getting back to Moby.

1573
01:30:29,320 --> 01:30:32,040
Speaker 2: This is the grossest part of this to me, and

1574
01:30:32,080 --> 01:30:34,320
Speaker 2: it has not been covered. If I were making any

1575
01:30:34,320 --> 01:30:37,080
Speaker 2: money off this and had more time, I would reach

1576
01:30:37,120 --> 01:30:40,120
Speaker 2: out to Moby and the Alan Lomax Archive, because the

1577
01:30:40,280 --> 01:30:42,240
Speaker 2: lone source that I can find for this is a

1578
01:30:42,320 --> 01:30:47,240
Speaker 2: Washington Post article from two thousand that suggested that the

1579
01:30:47,240 --> 01:30:51,400
Speaker 2: Lomax Archive and mom Moby were in legal negotiations because

1580
01:30:51,439 --> 01:30:54,719
Speaker 2: they alleged that they had not seen either as much

1581
01:30:54,960 --> 01:30:57,439
Speaker 2: or any of the money that they should have for

1582
01:30:57,520 --> 01:31:01,439
Speaker 2: the licensing of these songs. Lomax was eighty five and

1583
01:31:01,520 --> 01:31:04,120
Speaker 2: bedridden at the time after a series of strokes, so he,

1584
01:31:04,760 --> 01:31:07,000
Speaker 2: as we mentioned, one of the ethically dubious things that

1585
01:31:07,040 --> 01:31:10,920
Speaker 2: he did, was hanging onto these copyrights. Though to his credit,

1586
01:31:11,200 --> 01:31:14,040
Speaker 2: if he had contact information for the people who recorded

1587
01:31:14,040 --> 01:31:15,920
Speaker 2: these songs. He was in the habit of sending the money.

1588
01:31:15,920 --> 01:31:17,799
Speaker 2: I mean it could be like a five to fifteen

1589
01:31:17,880 --> 01:31:20,960
Speaker 2: dollars a year, but he did attempt to send the

1590
01:31:21,000 --> 01:31:24,599
Speaker 2: money from the proceeds of this. His daughter, Anna told

1591
01:31:24,920 --> 01:31:28,479
Speaker 2: the Washington Post that the Lomax organization, as of printing,

1592
01:31:29,000 --> 01:31:31,840
Speaker 2: hadn't seen a dime from Moby, and that they had

1593
01:31:31,880 --> 01:31:36,080
Speaker 2: actually wanted to use this money to locate these performers

1594
01:31:36,160 --> 01:31:39,280
Speaker 2: or their errors and give them some money. I'm perplexed,

1595
01:31:39,320 --> 01:31:41,760
Speaker 2: Anna told the paper. I'd be surprised if they didn't

1596
01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:44,200
Speaker 2: want to share in their good fortune with Alan and

1597
01:31:44,240 --> 01:31:47,160
Speaker 2: with the performers. I feel very strongly that the artist

1598
01:31:47,200 --> 01:31:49,799
Speaker 2: should get something out of it, or their heirs wherever

1599
01:31:49,840 --> 01:31:52,880
Speaker 2: they are. Moby was not quoted in that article, but

1600
01:31:53,000 --> 01:31:57,000
Speaker 2: his aforementioned manager, Barry Taylor, told the post, we've acted responsibly.

1601
01:31:57,080 --> 01:32:01,080
Speaker 2: We haven't received any money ourselves for any thing. What

1602
01:32:01,720 --> 01:32:05,200
Speaker 2: that could even mean other than a boldfaced lie, is

1603
01:32:05,320 --> 01:32:08,920
Speaker 2: unclear to me. He added that licensing fees for the

1604
01:32:08,960 --> 01:32:11,880
Speaker 2: Lomax samples were properly paid to a meat publishing company,

1605
01:32:11,880 --> 01:32:15,160
Speaker 2: Warner Chappelle. This is what gets interesting. I did a

1606
01:32:15,360 --> 01:32:18,000
Speaker 2: more digging and found out that the Lomax archive was

1607
01:32:18,040 --> 01:32:21,400
Speaker 2: a flat fee for sampling, so there was no scalable

1608
01:32:21,520 --> 01:32:24,280
Speaker 2: royalties paid. They paid a flat fee for the use

1609
01:32:24,320 --> 01:32:27,719
Speaker 2: of these songs, presumably to Warner Chappelle, and I guess

1610
01:32:27,800 --> 01:32:31,680
Speaker 2: the Lomax organization thought that, either out of Moby's largesse

1611
01:32:32,280 --> 01:32:35,960
Speaker 2: or a simple understanding, that these songs sold way made

1612
01:32:36,280 --> 01:32:39,200
Speaker 2: more money than vastly out of proportion to what they

1613
01:32:39,200 --> 01:32:44,040
Speaker 2: paid for them. Would be nice about it. Boby has

1614
01:32:44,120 --> 01:32:47,120
Speaker 2: tremendous respect for the Lomaxes. Taylor added, Moby was not

1615
01:32:47,200 --> 01:32:49,639
Speaker 2: quoted in the piece. We're optimistic that we'll be able

1616
01:32:49,720 --> 01:32:52,599
Speaker 2: to sort this thing out very soon. We want everyone

1617
01:32:52,640 --> 01:32:56,880
Speaker 2: to get paid and feel good about the project. To date,

1618
01:32:57,400 --> 01:33:01,000
Speaker 2: we don't know if that's happened. No, no, I not no

1619
01:33:01,160 --> 01:33:03,360
Speaker 2: follow up. They were in legal negotiations about it. I

1620
01:33:03,400 --> 01:33:05,120
Speaker 2: don't think it went to court. I was probably said

1621
01:33:05,120 --> 01:33:09,080
Speaker 2: out of court, but can't find anything about it. Like

1622
01:33:09,120 --> 01:33:11,479
Speaker 2: I said, would have reached out to the Lomac It

1623
01:33:11,680 --> 01:33:14,080
Speaker 2: probably could find unless there's a gag order in place,

1624
01:33:14,360 --> 01:33:17,200
Speaker 2: although it may have expired unless it was into perpetuity.

1625
01:33:17,280 --> 01:33:25,360
Speaker 2: But yeah, man, isn't that scummy and shitty, especially considering

1626
01:33:25,400 --> 01:33:27,639
Speaker 2: this X graft Jordan take us away?

1627
01:33:28,280 --> 01:33:31,680
Speaker 1: Yes, Moby continued to turn to this particular well for inspiration,

1628
01:33:32,840 --> 01:33:35,759
Speaker 1: he as he wrote Snag to the Davis Sisters nineteen

1629
01:33:35,880 --> 01:33:38,679
Speaker 1: fifty six record Lord Don't Leave Me for his song

1630
01:33:38,840 --> 01:33:41,799
Speaker 1: in This World, which came out on twenty two eighteen.

1631
01:33:41,920 --> 01:33:45,479
Speaker 1: Hiss follow up to Play eighteen also contained songs built

1632
01:33:45,520 --> 01:33:48,439
Speaker 1: around vocal samples from blues legend Barbara Lynz, I'm a

1633
01:33:48,439 --> 01:33:52,520
Speaker 1: Good Woman and Sunday, written and performed by Sylvia Robinson,

1634
01:33:52,960 --> 01:33:55,760
Speaker 1: who founded sugar Hill Records.

1635
01:33:56,080 --> 01:33:58,559
Speaker 2: That's right Zobe Robinson, who had hits on her own

1636
01:33:58,600 --> 01:34:00,599
Speaker 2: as a singer in the fifties and six He's way Onto,

1637
01:34:00,600 --> 01:34:03,920
Speaker 2: found sugar Hill Records, you know, responsible for launching hip

1638
01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:07,599
Speaker 2: hop as a commercial concern with rappers Delight and.

1639
01:34:07,760 --> 01:34:10,400
Speaker 1: Also the eighteen track I'm Not Worried at All. Sample's

1640
01:34:10,400 --> 01:34:13,360
Speaker 1: the same Banks Brothers recording that why does My Heart

1641
01:34:13,360 --> 01:34:14,040
Speaker 1: Feel So bad?

1642
01:34:14,080 --> 01:34:17,240
Speaker 2: Did? Here's the same damn sample twice back to back.

1643
01:34:18,920 --> 01:34:22,040
Speaker 1: In twenty eighteen's Everything Was Beautiful and Nothing Hurt a

1644
01:34:22,120 --> 01:34:26,200
Speaker 1: MOBI album that borrows a very famous quote from Konica Junior.

1645
01:34:26,240 --> 01:34:30,200
Speaker 1: I believe correct contains like a Motherless Child, which, though

1646
01:34:30,240 --> 01:34:33,640
Speaker 1: sung by contemporary singer, is a riff on the spiritual

1647
01:34:33,680 --> 01:34:37,200
Speaker 1: of the same name. In recent years, Moby has been

1648
01:34:37,240 --> 01:34:40,200
Speaker 1: pressed about the issue of cultural appropriation and has dredged

1649
01:34:40,280 --> 01:34:42,559
Speaker 1: up the classic My black friend said it was okay,

1650
01:34:42,600 --> 01:34:46,439
Speaker 1: excuse and both an interview and on his website, he

1651
01:34:46,520 --> 01:34:51,320
Speaker 1: told The Scotsman in twenty twenty one, I played some

1652
01:34:51,360 --> 01:34:53,439
Speaker 1: of the songs for Chris Rock, and I asked him,

1653
01:34:53,680 --> 01:34:54,880
Speaker 1: have I done a bad thing?

1654
01:34:56,800 --> 01:34:59,559
Speaker 2: Is he Chris Rock? Chris Rock? Have I done a

1655
01:34:59,600 --> 01:35:03,519
Speaker 2: bad Yeah? Right, tell me again about the rabbits, Chris Rock.

1656
01:35:04,800 --> 01:35:08,120
Speaker 1: Chris Rock looked at me and he said, no, no, Moby.

1657
01:35:09,000 --> 01:35:15,320
Speaker 8: He said, beautiful music is beautiful. He said beautiful music

1658
01:35:15,720 --> 01:35:19,120
Speaker 8: is beautiful music. And he said, you've made beautiful music.

1659
01:35:19,520 --> 01:35:20,519
Speaker 2: Yes you have, Moby.

1660
01:35:21,120 --> 01:35:23,960
Speaker 1: I felt like, Okay, there's an imprimature that comes with

1661
01:35:24,000 --> 01:35:28,439
Speaker 1: that from Chris Rock. He really assured me. Still in

1662
01:35:28,479 --> 01:35:32,320
Speaker 1: the same interview, Bobby acknowledged cultural appropriation is a real thing.

1663
01:35:33,240 --> 01:35:36,080
Speaker 1: Talking to Dan Weiss at Grammy dot Com in twenty nineteen,

1664
01:35:36,640 --> 01:35:39,840
Speaker 1: he made what You've described as the somewhat baffling claim,

1665
01:35:40,280 --> 01:35:43,120
Speaker 1: as far as I know, you asking me about cultural

1666
01:35:43,120 --> 01:35:46,920
Speaker 1: appropriation is the closest I've come to a conversation about it,

1667
01:35:47,280 --> 01:35:49,880
Speaker 1: adding later, I'm sure if I sat down with someone

1668
01:35:49,960 --> 01:35:53,240
Speaker 1: like Cornell West, I'm sure they'd have a different perspective

1669
01:35:53,280 --> 01:35:56,240
Speaker 1: on play, and I'm sure that I'd agree with their perspective.

1670
01:35:56,680 --> 01:35:58,200
Speaker 1: Title tell us about Cornell West.

1671
01:35:58,520 --> 01:36:03,080
Speaker 2: Oh, he's a famous uh historian who's I think Harvard

1672
01:36:03,120 --> 01:36:07,200
Speaker 2: for the longest time who is formally considered I think

1673
01:36:07,280 --> 01:36:11,000
Speaker 2: something of a figurehead in African American studies, and I

1674
01:36:11,040 --> 01:36:14,160
Speaker 2: think of late has gotten weirder and more reactionary in

1675
01:36:14,200 --> 01:36:21,880
Speaker 2: different ways. AH twenty nineteen. First, anyone told himbout cultural appropriation, no, Moby,

1676
01:36:22,040 --> 01:36:27,400
Speaker 2: you made beautiful music. That conversation kills me. That is

1677
01:36:27,439 --> 01:36:30,280
Speaker 2: like how a fourteen year old a ten year old

1678
01:36:30,280 --> 01:36:33,519
Speaker 2: will recall something. Have I done a bad thing? Chris Rock,

1679
01:36:33,840 --> 01:36:37,400
Speaker 2: No Moby, you made beautiful music. In that interview, a

1680
01:36:37,479 --> 01:36:39,960
Speaker 2: Mobey acknowledged that part of his cavalier attitude was because

1681
01:36:40,000 --> 01:36:42,360
Speaker 2: he assumed that play would end his career, not launch

1682
01:36:42,400 --> 01:36:46,920
Speaker 2: it to new unprecedented heights. If someone had said, you're

1683
01:36:46,960 --> 01:36:49,360
Speaker 2: making an album that's going to sell twelve million copies,

1684
01:36:49,560 --> 01:36:52,080
Speaker 2: I might have given it a second thought. From the

1685
01:36:52,080 --> 01:36:55,160
Speaker 2: time when electronic musicians started sampling, there were only two

1686
01:36:55,160 --> 01:36:58,280
Speaker 2: criteria for sample based music. Is it good? And are

1687
01:36:58,280 --> 01:37:01,560
Speaker 2: you gonna get sued? I'm not saying the criteria of

1688
01:37:01,680 --> 01:37:04,519
Speaker 2: historical sensitivity was invalid, just that it was never part

1689
01:37:04,560 --> 01:37:08,879
Speaker 2: of the conversation. Three years later, though, the Cohen Brothers

1690
01:37:09,000 --> 01:37:12,600
Speaker 2: and the Lomax Archive proved how to handle this situation.

1691
01:37:12,920 --> 01:37:15,720
Speaker 2: In a much better way, Oh Brother, Where Art Thou,

1692
01:37:16,400 --> 01:37:19,280
Speaker 2: the soundtrack of which was a phenomenal out of nowhere

1693
01:37:19,360 --> 01:37:23,360
Speaker 2: hit and introduced decades of people to Lomax's work, along

1694
01:37:23,360 --> 01:37:26,400
Speaker 2: with the whole sampling of American folk and blues music,

1695
01:37:26,800 --> 01:37:29,760
Speaker 2: famously inspiring the Mumford Brothers. So maybe we just call

1696
01:37:29,800 --> 01:37:34,599
Speaker 2: that one a wash. The film's title sequences famously scored

1697
01:37:34,640 --> 01:37:37,840
Speaker 2: by a performance of a song called po Lazarus that

1698
01:37:37,960 --> 01:37:42,799
Speaker 2: is credited by Lomax to James Carter at again Parchment

1699
01:37:42,920 --> 01:37:46,320
Speaker 2: Farm in nineteen fifty nine. The soundtrack won a Grammy Award,

1700
01:37:46,400 --> 01:37:49,400
Speaker 2: and Lomax's daughter Anna, true to what she said was

1701
01:37:49,439 --> 01:37:53,160
Speaker 2: her initial goal with the play, money that allegedly never came,

1702
01:37:53,760 --> 01:37:56,320
Speaker 2: went on a national hunt for Carter, who had never

1703
01:37:56,360 --> 01:37:59,840
Speaker 2: been recorded before or after. He was eventually found at

1704
01:37:59,880 --> 01:38:02,360
Speaker 2: the age of seventy six living in Chicago, and they

1705
01:38:02,400 --> 01:38:05,879
Speaker 2: gave him a royalty check for twenty grand and invited

1706
01:38:05,960 --> 01:38:09,719
Speaker 2: him to the Grammys. Hearing that the Old Brothers soundtrack

1707
01:38:09,840 --> 01:38:13,880
Speaker 2: was out selling Michael Jackson and Mariah Carey records, Carter quipped,

1708
01:38:14,240 --> 01:38:16,320
Speaker 2: you tell Michael I'll slow down so that he can

1709
01:38:16,320 --> 01:38:18,800
Speaker 2: catch up with me. He died the next year of

1710
01:38:18,840 --> 01:38:19,280
Speaker 2: a stroke.

1711
01:38:19,800 --> 01:38:22,800
Speaker 1: We can't authoritatively rule out Joe Jackson had nothing to

1712
01:38:22,840 --> 01:38:23,559
Speaker 1: do with that, but.

1713
01:38:24,880 --> 01:38:28,080
Speaker 2: I would like to end this on an anecdote. Do

1714
01:38:28,120 --> 01:38:30,320
Speaker 2: you remember the name Dimitri Erlich from early on in

1715
01:38:30,320 --> 01:38:32,960
Speaker 2: this episode? Yes, I do, the guy who supposedly loaned

1716
01:38:33,280 --> 01:38:37,200
Speaker 2: Moby the Lomax collection on CD. Apparently the CDs actually

1717
01:38:37,200 --> 01:38:40,679
Speaker 2: belonged to Dmitri's younger brother, Gregor, and Gregor Revane haunted

1718
01:38:40,720 --> 01:38:43,400
Speaker 2: for this by years. As chronicled on an episode of

1719
01:38:43,439 --> 01:38:48,840
Speaker 2: Jonathan Goldstein's Heavyweight podcast in twenty seventeen, Dimitri, Gregor, and

1720
01:38:48,840 --> 01:38:52,320
Speaker 2: Moby had all been friends in their early squalorous New

1721
01:38:52,400 --> 01:38:56,479
Speaker 2: York days installed at the Mars Bar, and they'd obviously

1722
01:38:56,520 --> 01:39:00,800
Speaker 2: lost some contact since Gregor repeatedly as Moby for those

1723
01:39:00,840 --> 01:39:04,960
Speaker 2: CDs back though for years. He compares the situation to

1724
01:39:05,040 --> 01:39:07,599
Speaker 2: being a guy who gave Shakespeare a pen once and

1725
01:39:07,680 --> 01:39:10,120
Speaker 2: wants the pen back. There's a lot in there about

1726
01:39:10,120 --> 01:39:12,639
Speaker 2: Gregor being a failed filmmaker having something of a midlife

1727
01:39:12,640 --> 01:39:15,720
Speaker 2: crisis of sorts now making films for cleaning products, as

1728
01:39:15,760 --> 01:39:20,320
Speaker 2: he recalled, and so he began leaving Moby voicemails. By

1729
01:39:20,360 --> 01:39:23,519
Speaker 2: his count, about a dozen asking for these CDs back

1730
01:39:23,520 --> 01:39:27,080
Speaker 2: that all went unanswered. He wrote a song called Moby

1731
01:39:27,120 --> 01:39:29,960
Speaker 2: give Me Back My CDs, which he sang into Moby's

1732
01:39:29,960 --> 01:39:34,000
Speaker 2: answering machine. As part of this podcast, Goldstein and Erliic

1733
01:39:34,200 --> 01:39:37,240
Speaker 2: fly out to Burbank from New York and then drive

1734
01:39:37,360 --> 01:39:40,360
Speaker 2: to Moby's house, although in fairness they had made an

1735
01:39:40,400 --> 01:39:43,880
Speaker 2: appointment with his assistant. They get in there. Gregor's whole

1736
01:39:44,000 --> 01:39:47,120
Speaker 2: deal is explained to Moby, at which point Moby reveals

1737
01:39:47,160 --> 01:39:50,919
Speaker 2: that he considered Eminem his professional nemesis and was constantly

1738
01:39:51,000 --> 01:39:53,800
Speaker 2: haunted by the fact that the rapper outsold him and

1739
01:39:54,000 --> 01:39:56,400
Speaker 2: dissed him publicly so much that is.

1740
01:39:56,360 --> 01:40:00,080
Speaker 1: Not related to getting this man CDs back, No no,

1741
01:40:00,720 --> 01:40:01,080
Speaker 1: but he.

1742
01:40:01,000 --> 01:40:04,479
Speaker 2: Sort of reveals at his own midlife crisis. He also

1743
01:40:04,520 --> 01:40:06,439
Speaker 2: says at one point that somebody related to him this

1744
01:40:06,520 --> 01:40:09,840
Speaker 2: story of like playing natural Blues at a funeral and

1745
01:40:09,880 --> 01:40:12,000
Speaker 2: it was like one of the most impactful parts of

1746
01:40:12,000 --> 01:40:14,160
Speaker 2: her life, and that never would have happened if Gregor

1747
01:40:14,200 --> 01:40:17,080
Speaker 2: hadn't loaned him these CDs. But Moby says, really the

1748
01:40:17,160 --> 01:40:18,800
Speaker 2: kick in the teeth of fame is that if you

1749
01:40:18,840 --> 01:40:20,840
Speaker 2: don't have it, you beat yourself up that you don't

1750
01:40:20,880 --> 01:40:23,000
Speaker 2: have it, and if you do have it, you're miserable

1751
01:40:23,000 --> 01:40:26,000
Speaker 2: and you kill yourself. Literally, the most depressed I've ever

1752
01:40:26,040 --> 01:40:29,639
Speaker 2: been my entire life was the height of my professional success. Then,

1753
01:40:29,680 --> 01:40:32,320
Speaker 2: of course, he reveals that the CDs in question, he

1754
01:40:32,400 --> 01:40:35,519
Speaker 2: believes are at a storage space in Queen's about as

1755
01:40:35,560 --> 01:40:38,840
Speaker 2: far across the country as one could get from this conversation.

1756
01:40:39,600 --> 01:40:42,320
Speaker 2: So Gregor leaves empty handed, but three days later he

1757
01:40:42,360 --> 01:40:45,320
Speaker 2: receives an email from Moby reading, in part, I realized

1758
01:40:45,360 --> 01:40:47,719
Speaker 2: I never said a true, heartfelt thank you for giving

1759
01:40:47,720 --> 01:40:51,439
Speaker 2: me those CDs, so, in all sincerity, thank you. I'm

1760
01:40:51,479 --> 01:40:55,920
Speaker 2: sorry it's taken so long to say thank you. It's

1761
01:40:55,960 --> 01:40:58,160
Speaker 2: such a god damn shame. He never thanked any of

1762
01:40:58,160 --> 01:41:01,400
Speaker 2: those black people though. I'm Alex Heigel, and this has

1763
01:41:01,439 --> 01:41:02,560
Speaker 2: been too much information.

1764
01:41:03,080 --> 01:41:04,679
Speaker 1: Also, I want to add it sounds like this guy

1765
01:41:04,720 --> 01:41:07,799
Speaker 1: never gave him those CDs, but loaned them to Boby,

1766
01:41:07,960 --> 01:41:11,200
Speaker 1: who then just took them for his very.

1767
01:41:11,160 --> 01:41:14,840
Speaker 2: Own little on the nose there as far as metaphors go.

1768
01:41:16,040 --> 01:41:24,160
Speaker 1: And I'm Jordan Runtogg. We'll catch you next time. Too

1769
01:41:24,200 --> 01:41:26,519
Speaker 1: Much Information was a production of iHeart Radio.

1770
01:41:26,760 --> 01:41:30,000
Speaker 2: The show's executive producers are Noel Brown, and Jordan Runtog.

1771
01:41:30,160 --> 01:41:32,559
Speaker 1: The show's supervising producer is Michael Alder.

1772
01:41:32,680 --> 01:41:35,920
Speaker 2: June. The show was researched, written and hosted by Jordan

1773
01:41:36,000 --> 01:41:37,600
Speaker 2: Runtog and Alex Heigel.

1774
01:41:37,360 --> 01:41:40,599
Speaker 1: With original music by Seth Applebaum and the Ghost Funk Orchestra.

1775
01:41:40,920 --> 01:41:42,960
Speaker 1: If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave

1776
01:41:43,040 --> 01:41:46,000
Speaker 1: us a review. For more podcasts on iHeartRadio, visit the

1777
01:41:46,040 --> 01:41:49,320
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

1778
01:41:49,320 --> 01:42:02,240
Speaker 1: favorite shows