WEBVTT - Carlos Doesn’t Remember 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:15.796 Pushkin. 0:00:18.596 --> 0:00:20.676 Yes, I am a sophomore high school. 0:00:20.476 --> 0:00:23.396 And that high school you started there in ninth grade. 0:00:23.876 --> 0:00:25.156 No, this is my first year. 0:00:25.236 --> 0:00:25.996 This is your first year. 0:00:26.076 --> 0:00:26.276 Yeah. 0:00:26.356 --> 0:00:28.396 Yeah, Were you challenged in your old school? 0:00:29.556 --> 0:00:30.956 Uh? No, no, not really. 0:00:40.716 --> 0:00:44.036 Welcome to Revisionist History, where every week we re examined 0:00:44.036 --> 0:00:47.876 something from the past that's been forgotten or misunderstood. I'm 0:00:47.916 --> 0:01:00.996 Malcolm Gladwell. This episode is about a young man named Carlos, 0:01:01.356 --> 0:01:03.516 which is not his real name. I've changed it for 0:01:03.556 --> 0:01:13.076 reasons that will become obvious. Were you bored most of 0:01:13.076 --> 0:01:14.836 the time and what were you doing when you're sitting 0:01:14.836 --> 0:01:15.356 in class? 0:01:16.156 --> 0:01:20.356 Well, I usually finished my class work a lot earlier 0:01:21.076 --> 0:01:24.076 in some of the other kids, and I guess I 0:01:24.236 --> 0:01:25.476 was a little bored. 0:01:26.156 --> 0:01:29.556 Carlos is slight, a little short for his age, braces, 0:01:29.876 --> 0:01:33.516 thick head of black hair. A good looking kid, but normal. 0:01:34.036 --> 0:01:35.596 He wouldn't stand out if you saw him on a 0:01:35.636 --> 0:01:40.276 school bus. It's his manner that's distinctive for a teenager. 0:01:40.316 --> 0:01:43.796 He's really deliberate, thoughtful, a little guarded in a way 0:01:43.796 --> 0:01:47.156 that makes him seem much older. He lives in Los Angeles. 0:01:47.676 --> 0:01:50.196 He's just transferred from a massive public high school, to 0:01:50.236 --> 0:01:51.356 an elite private school. 0:01:51.636 --> 0:01:55.996 I really enjoy math. Math is just is not easy, 0:01:56.796 --> 0:01:58.156 but it just makes the most sense. 0:01:58.556 --> 0:02:02.276 When he talks about math, Carlos relaxes. He looks happy, 0:02:02.876 --> 0:02:05.596 like math is the warmest and safest place he knows. 0:02:06.476 --> 0:02:08.476 Some people just say they hate math because they don't 0:02:08.556 --> 0:02:11.556 understand it. But I just like learning about, like the 0:02:11.636 --> 0:02:15.276 concepts of math. When I can understand something, I feel, 0:02:16.276 --> 0:02:21.236 it just makes it. Everything's very precise, you know, it's 0:02:21.276 --> 0:02:24.116 not a lot of room for error. That's I guess 0:02:24.116 --> 0:02:24.956 that's why I like math. 0:02:25.196 --> 0:02:27.156 Is that the subject that you'd get the best grades in. 0:02:28.036 --> 0:02:31.156 Well, I do get pretty good grades all my classes. 0:02:31.676 --> 0:02:33.596 What's the last time in school you ever felt that 0:02:33.636 --> 0:02:36.756 you didn't understand something or couldn't do something. 0:02:36.516 --> 0:02:41.756 Or I'm going to sound kind of arrogant, I think, 0:02:41.876 --> 0:02:46.996 but most concepts that I'm taught, I catch on to 0:02:47.036 --> 0:02:47.796 them pretty quickly. 0:02:52.076 --> 0:02:55.636 Carlos is a smart kid. He's gotten a scholarship to 0:02:55.716 --> 0:02:59.836 a really good private school. He's excelling. It's not hard 0:02:59.876 --> 0:03:02.316 to imagine that one day he'll go to a college 0:03:02.316 --> 0:03:06.956 of his choice. He's going places. This is what civilized 0:03:06.996 --> 0:03:11.196 societies are supposed to do to provide opportunities for people 0:03:11.356 --> 0:03:14.396 to make the most of their ability, so that if 0:03:14.436 --> 0:03:17.356 you're born poor, you can move up. If you work hard, 0:03:17.556 --> 0:03:22.116 you can improve your lot. There's even a term for this, capitalization. 0:03:23.796 --> 0:03:27.756 A society's capitalization rate is the percentage of people in 0:03:27.836 --> 0:03:32.036 any group who are able to reach their potential capitalize 0:03:32.076 --> 0:03:35.836 on their potential. I think the capitalization rate is one 0:03:35.836 --> 0:03:38.596 of the single best ways we have to capture how 0:03:38.716 --> 0:03:43.436 successful and just a society is. If I know that number, 0:03:43.716 --> 0:03:45.836 I think I have a better handle on how well 0:03:45.836 --> 0:03:48.076 a country is doing than if I know it's GDP 0:03:48.716 --> 0:03:52.356 or its growth rate or its per capita income. And 0:03:52.476 --> 0:03:56.196 right from the beginning, Americans have told themselves that they're 0:03:56.276 --> 0:04:01.196 really good at capitalization, really good at social mobility. Any 0:04:01.316 --> 0:04:04.716 kid can grow up to be president. That's what's supposed 0:04:04.756 --> 0:04:12.436 to set America apart from everywhere else. Over the course 0:04:12.596 --> 0:04:16.036 of the next three episodes of Revisionist History, I want 0:04:16.076 --> 0:04:19.756 to reevaluate this idea, go back and ask the question, 0:04:20.436 --> 0:04:24.116 is it true that we're good at capitalization. In one 0:04:24.196 --> 0:04:27.036 upcoming show, we're going to talk about where the money 0:04:27.036 --> 0:04:30.036 goes in American higher ed. I'm going to take you 0:04:30.236 --> 0:04:32.916 to a small college in South Jersey and ask the 0:04:32.996 --> 0:04:36.236 question is the system geared to serve the poor smart 0:04:36.276 --> 0:04:40.556 kid or the rich smart kid. In another episode, I'm 0:04:40.596 --> 0:04:43.556 going to compare two liberal arts colleges and ask what 0:04:43.716 --> 0:04:47.596 happens when a school really tries to help someone like Carlos. 0:04:48.196 --> 0:04:51.596 But this episode is about Carlos himself, because his story 0:04:51.636 --> 0:04:55.076 is a little more complicated than it seems, actually a 0:04:55.116 --> 0:05:02.236 lot more complicated. I met Carlos through a man named 0:05:02.396 --> 0:05:05.956 Eric Eisner, And what was your first impression of it? 0:05:07.396 --> 0:05:08.276 Mister Eisner? 0:05:09.116 --> 0:05:10.916 You can speak freely even though he's in the. 0:05:10.956 --> 0:05:15.676 Room ostris at caned be intimidating and sometimes. 0:05:16.116 --> 0:05:19.116 Eric used to be a big shot entertainment lawyer back 0:05:19.116 --> 0:05:21.516 in the day. He worked for David Geffen. He's a 0:05:21.596 --> 0:05:26.396 kind of athlete swagger, wears impeccable tom Ford suits. Anyway, 0:05:26.596 --> 0:05:29.316 he retired in the early nineteen nineties and a few 0:05:29.356 --> 0:05:32.636 years later started a program for gifted public school kids 0:05:32.636 --> 0:05:36.276 in Los Angeles. It's called Yes. He talks to a 0:05:36.276 --> 0:05:39.916 lot of teachers, looks at test scores, identifies the most 0:05:39.956 --> 0:05:44.036 promising kids, tutors them, and uses his connections to get 0:05:44.036 --> 0:05:47.236 them into private schools. He's been doing it for nearly 0:05:47.276 --> 0:05:51.196 twenty years. A couple hundred students have passed through Yes 0:05:51.476 --> 0:05:53.476 and have gone on to graduate from some of the 0:05:53.516 --> 0:05:57.756 top universities in the country. Carlos is one of his kids. 0:05:58.516 --> 0:06:01.076 When Carlos was in fifth grade, Eric got him into 0:06:01.076 --> 0:06:06.516 a fancy elementary school in Brentwood. Now several years later, 0:06:06.916 --> 0:06:09.796 Carlos comes to meet me at Eric's house in bel Air, 0:06:10.076 --> 0:06:13.596 up one of those winding, gorgeous canyon roads from Sunset Boulevard. 0:06:14.316 --> 0:06:17.396 I'm across the table from Carlos. Eric is behind me, 0:06:17.476 --> 0:06:20.236 sitting in an armchair. That's why his voice is sometimes 0:06:20.236 --> 0:06:24.036 a little faint. Eric asks Carlos to think back to 0:06:24.076 --> 0:06:27.596 that fancy elementary school in Brentwood. Did he feel self 0:06:27.636 --> 0:06:28.596 conscious going there? 0:06:29.036 --> 0:06:30.956 I did, but not because I was Hispanic. 0:06:31.916 --> 0:06:35.156 Eric asks whether it was because Carlos was poor and 0:06:35.236 --> 0:06:39.236 those kids were rich. Did that make Carlos feel self conscious? 0:06:39.556 --> 0:06:42.996 Well, not a thing about it. I think it kind of, 0:06:43.036 --> 0:06:48.876 did you know it? Definitely? I felt like I was 0:06:48.916 --> 0:06:53.236 the only one, not the only one the episode with sneakers. 0:06:53.836 --> 0:06:58.396 Eric asks about the episode with the sneakers. Did Carlos 0:06:58.436 --> 0:07:02.276 remember that? Do you erase this from your memory I have, I. 0:07:03.756 --> 0:07:04.836 Can tell me what happened. 0:07:05.156 --> 0:07:08.156 Here's what happened. The teachers in Brentwood called Eric to 0:07:08.196 --> 0:07:09.996 tell him that Carlos would isn't playing with the other 0:07:10.076 --> 0:07:13.076 kids at recess, even though he seemed very engaged with 0:07:13.156 --> 0:07:16.436 him in the classroom. Eric then talked with Carlos and 0:07:16.516 --> 0:07:19.716 noticed that his sneakers were about three sizes too big. 0:07:20.316 --> 0:07:22.516 So he bought him shoes the right size, and that's 0:07:22.516 --> 0:07:24.716 solved the problem. Do you remember this. 0:07:24.636 --> 0:07:27.996 Well, the being not wanting to play the sports with 0:07:28.276 --> 0:07:30.996 the other kids, That does ring a bell, But I 0:07:31.556 --> 0:07:32.596 don't remember the sneakers. 0:07:32.956 --> 0:07:36.076 Eric says Carlos's sneakers were so big they curled up 0:07:36.116 --> 0:07:40.596 like elf shoes. But Carlos says he doesn't remember the sneakers. 0:07:41.236 --> 0:07:49.516 This happens to him a lot. I said at the 0:07:49.516 --> 0:07:54.116 beginning that the capitalization story for people like Carlos is complicated, 0:07:54.516 --> 0:07:57.396 and this is what I mean. Carlos is a really, 0:07:57.436 --> 0:08:01.836 really gifted kid. But it's almost impossible to imagine Carlos 0:08:01.956 --> 0:08:05.636 making it into the fancy school without Eric. In other words, 0:08:05.916 --> 0:08:08.756 in order for the system to work, for the smart 0:08:08.836 --> 0:08:11.596 kid to make it up the ladder, he needs an advocate, 0:08:12.076 --> 0:08:15.356 and not just an ordinary advocate, a high power guy 0:08:15.636 --> 0:08:18.476 with lots of connections who can get you in and 0:08:18.596 --> 0:08:21.356 watch over you and make sure you get new sneakers 0:08:21.596 --> 0:08:24.316 because the ones you have are curled up like elfshoes. 0:08:25.356 --> 0:08:30.596 Capitalization requires an Eric Eisner. And how many Eric Eisner's 0:08:30.596 --> 0:08:33.836 do you think there are out there? Then there's the 0:08:33.956 --> 0:08:38.996 second complication. To find opportunity, Carlos had to go to Brentwood, 0:08:39.436 --> 0:08:42.356 forty five minutes up the freeway from where he grew up, 0:08:42.916 --> 0:08:47.276 a wealthy, white, leafy green neighborhood. The truth is that's 0:08:47.316 --> 0:08:51.236 where opportunity is in America these days. But you can't 0:08:51.276 --> 0:08:54.276 just jump from where Carlos was from straight to Brentwood 0:08:54.316 --> 0:08:58.116 and leave your past behind. Your past comes with you. 0:09:00.036 --> 0:09:01.516 What were the other students. 0:09:01.156 --> 0:09:06.836 Like, Well, those students, well, you know, actually kids aren't 0:09:06.836 --> 0:09:13.356 going to be kids, and so they weren't two different. Okay, 0:09:13.916 --> 0:09:19.116 I need to give me a second here, I'm being nervous. 0:09:20.716 --> 0:09:24.236 A few years ago, two prominent economists, Carolyne Hawkesby of 0:09:24.276 --> 0:09:27.756 Stanford and Chris Avery of Harvard published a really important 0:09:27.796 --> 0:09:32.156 paper called The Missing One Offs. Hawksby and Avery start 0:09:32.156 --> 0:09:35.316 out by talking about something that happened ten years ago. 0:09:35.516 --> 0:09:38.636 That's when some of the elite US colleges, the Harvard's 0:09:38.636 --> 0:09:41.516 and Princetons of the world, announced that they'd give free 0:09:41.556 --> 0:09:44.676 tuition to any deserving student who came from the bottom 0:09:44.716 --> 0:09:48.476 of the economic ladder. At the time, the cutoff was 0:09:48.516 --> 0:09:51.476 a family income of forty thousand dollars a year. Now 0:09:51.476 --> 0:09:54.676 it's sixty five thousand. In other words, if a poor 0:09:54.796 --> 0:09:57.636 kid is smart enough to get in, she can attend 0:09:57.676 --> 0:10:00.876 for free. And what happens after the elite schools make 0:10:00.916 --> 0:10:04.756 this announcement not much. To use Harvard as an example, 0:10:04.996 --> 0:10:07.956 they ended up taking in about an additional fifteen or 0:10:08.036 --> 0:10:11.836 so low income student year after changing their policies. That's 0:10:11.876 --> 0:10:14.636 out of a freshman class of more than sixteen hundred. 0:10:15.156 --> 0:10:18.636 It's a drop in the bucket. Let me quote directly 0:10:18.636 --> 0:10:23.676 from the paper now, because this is a crucial point. Interestingly, 0:10:23.956 --> 0:10:26.796 this very modest effect was not a surprise to many 0:10:26.796 --> 0:10:30.396 college admission staff. They explained that there was a small 0:10:30.436 --> 0:10:33.836 pool of low income, high achieving students who were already 0:10:33.956 --> 0:10:38.156 fully tapped, so that additional aid and recruiting could do 0:10:38.316 --> 0:10:41.956 little except shift them among institutions that were fairly similar 0:10:42.876 --> 0:10:45.996 In other words, the admissions officers felt they had gone 0:10:46.076 --> 0:10:48.636 out of their way to look for these kinds of kids. 0:10:49.356 --> 0:10:51.796 They'd made special visits to high schools with lots of 0:10:51.796 --> 0:10:54.556 poor students, that sent out letters to kids with high 0:10:54.556 --> 0:10:57.436 test coores living in bad neighborhoods. They had built a 0:10:57.476 --> 0:11:01.556 network of guidance counselors. They sponsored free campus visits for 0:11:01.596 --> 0:11:04.636 low income students, and they made it tuition free. But 0:11:04.716 --> 0:11:07.036 if you do all those things and you only get 0:11:07.076 --> 0:11:10.116 an extra fifteen smart poor cares a year at Harvard, 0:11:10.756 --> 0:11:12.596 that must mean that there aren't a lot of poor 0:11:12.596 --> 0:11:16.836 smart kids out there. They're talking about Carlos. They're saying 0:11:16.836 --> 0:11:27.796 that kids like Carlos are pretty rare. Hoxby and Avery 0:11:27.836 --> 0:11:31.236 decide to fact check this is it true. They go 0:11:31.316 --> 0:11:33.596 to the College Board and get the entire database of 0:11:33.636 --> 0:11:38.316 college test scores SAT and ACT. Then they take those 0:11:38.356 --> 0:11:41.116 scores and match each score to a high school and 0:11:41.156 --> 0:11:43.956 a neighborhood and a zip code, and to all they 0:11:43.956 --> 0:11:46.956 could find about where the student comes from. And they 0:11:47.116 --> 0:11:49.756 end up with a giant map of every high achieving, 0:11:49.836 --> 0:11:53.396 low income high school senior in the country. And here's 0:11:53.436 --> 0:11:59.676 what Hoxby and Avery discover the admissions officers are totally wrong. Actually, 0:11:59.876 --> 0:12:02.516 there are a huge number of poor smart kids in 0:12:02.516 --> 0:12:06.716 the United States. There's probably thirty five thousand students a 0:12:06.796 --> 0:12:09.916 year who score in the ninetieth percent or above on 0:12:09.956 --> 0:12:13.956 their SATs, and who also come from families living on 0:12:14.076 --> 0:12:17.556 less than forty thousand dollars a year. Now, keep in mind, 0:12:17.596 --> 0:12:19.996 these are kids who don't have tutors, who don't go 0:12:20.116 --> 0:12:23.316 to high schools with a million advanced placement courses, and 0:12:23.356 --> 0:12:26.036 who probably took the test once, not two or three 0:12:26.076 --> 0:12:29.116 times like upper middle class kids. So these scores are 0:12:29.116 --> 0:12:31.796 on the low side. These are kids who could ace 0:12:31.836 --> 0:12:39.516 a test in one shot. Seven. Eric Eisner started yes 0:12:39.836 --> 0:12:42.756 almost twenty years ago at an LA Middle School in 0:12:42.796 --> 0:12:46.676 a place called Lenox, which is this small, heavily Hispanic 0:12:46.716 --> 0:12:50.636 community of about twenty thousand people hallowed out in the 0:12:50.676 --> 0:12:53.556 middle of Los Angeles, right across the four or five 0:12:53.596 --> 0:12:58.356 freeway from Lax. I mean, right across you can practically 0:12:58.436 --> 0:13:03.516 touch the planes as they take off and land. The 0:13:03.596 --> 0:13:07.156 median household income in Lenox is thirty seven thousand dollars 0:13:07.196 --> 0:13:20.436 a year. It's not a good name. Lennox Middle School 0:13:20.436 --> 0:13:24.156 has six hundred kids per grade. The classrooms are these 0:13:24.156 --> 0:13:28.116 standalone wooden and cinderblock huts, row upon row of them. 0:13:28.676 --> 0:13:30.796 They only put in windows in the huts last year, 0:13:31.556 --> 0:13:34.476 tiny little windows high on the wall. There's a big 0:13:34.516 --> 0:13:37.276 fence around the outside, a guard in a hut at 0:13:37.276 --> 0:13:39.716 the gate. I don't want this to come across the 0:13:39.756 --> 0:13:44.836 wrong way, but Lennox looks like a concentration camp. When 0:13:44.836 --> 0:13:47.876 I was there, a police cruiser drove slowly back and 0:13:47.956 --> 0:13:50.836 forth between the long rows of huts. Oh, and next 0:13:50.836 --> 0:13:53.276 to the principal's office there are what looked like six 0:13:53.436 --> 0:13:58.076 narrow closets, solitary confinement cells where they stash a kid 0:13:58.116 --> 0:14:01.556 until the cops come. Remember this is a middle school. 0:14:02.276 --> 0:14:04.476 You go to a place like Lenox and you can't 0:14:04.476 --> 0:14:08.036 help feeling hopeless. This is as bad as La gets. 0:14:08.916 --> 0:14:11.436 Right from the beginning when he came there looking for 0:14:11.476 --> 0:14:15.716 bright kids. Eric Eisner hit Peter, I'm curious about the 0:14:15.756 --> 0:14:19.516 idea you can go to a fairly randomly selected middle 0:14:19.516 --> 0:14:24.876 school in a disadvantaged neighborhood in a major American city 0:14:25.396 --> 0:14:31.836 and reliably find every year a handful of really, really 0:14:31.876 --> 0:14:34.316 really gifted kids, Right. 0:14:34.516 --> 0:14:39.036 I think, yeah, it's it varies even within the school. 0:14:39.156 --> 0:14:41.636 From year to year, you never know what kind of 0:14:41.676 --> 0:14:44.116 crop it's going to be. It's a little like wine. 0:14:44.556 --> 0:14:49.156 But some years it's very very few, and sometimes one 0:14:49.236 --> 0:14:51.796 or none. But then other years you'll they'll be five 0:14:51.876 --> 0:14:55.716 of them. But there is you know, it's it's it's 0:14:55.756 --> 0:14:58.836 not like you're looking for a needle in a haystack. 0:14:59.716 --> 0:15:02.516 It's not like you're looking for a needle in a haystack. 0:15:03.236 --> 0:15:09.436 There's a ton of talent out there, all right. If 0:15:09.436 --> 0:15:12.196 there are so many smart poor kids, why aren't they 0:15:12.236 --> 0:15:16.036 showing up at places like Harvard. The researchers Avery and 0:15:16.076 --> 0:15:18.236 Hawsby find that a good chunk of the thirty five 0:15:18.276 --> 0:15:21.436 thousand high achievers don't even so much as apply to 0:15:21.516 --> 0:15:25.916 a good school. That's crazy, right. Most selective schools are 0:15:25.956 --> 0:15:29.316 practically free for these kids. An elite school is cheaper 0:15:29.316 --> 0:15:32.636 than the local state college down the street. More importantly, 0:15:32.876 --> 0:15:35.876 these are really smart kids. We're not talking here about 0:15:35.916 --> 0:15:38.756 some mediocre student who gets into an elite college because 0:15:38.796 --> 0:15:41.116 he's a great football player, or his dad built a 0:15:41.116 --> 0:15:43.676 new dorm and he ends up being way over his head. 0:15:43.916 --> 0:15:45.836 We're talking about kids like Carlos. 0:15:46.436 --> 0:15:49.676 Most concepts that I'm taught. I catch on something pretty quickly. 0:15:51.436 --> 0:15:53.916 Eric thinks that the system can't find kids like Carlos 0:15:54.076 --> 0:15:57.676 because it starts looking much too late. The admissions officers 0:15:57.716 --> 0:16:00.836 are sending out their letters to high school juniors seventeen 0:16:00.916 --> 0:16:04.476 year olds kidding me in Lenox. Eric says, you have 0:16:04.556 --> 0:16:07.036 to start finding the smart kids in the fourth grade. 0:16:07.476 --> 0:16:09.836 That's because they may not even show up later. 0:16:12.236 --> 0:16:15.516 It's like any muscle, it atrophies. And then by the 0:16:15.596 --> 0:16:21.396 time the boy girl thing happens, if that hasn't been encouraged, 0:16:21.396 --> 0:16:26.156 that excitement of being smart, it goes. It goes away 0:16:26.156 --> 0:16:29.156 because when the struggle hits them of going to any 0:16:29.236 --> 0:16:33.356 kind of challenge in college, they don't have the cleats 0:16:33.556 --> 0:16:36.356 for that anymore. They don't have those hiking shoes anymore. 0:16:37.276 --> 0:16:38.756 They're just not accustomed to it. 0:16:39.276 --> 0:16:40.956 So what was happening. 0:16:42.156 --> 0:16:46.276 Before Yes shows up at this school or in schools 0:16:46.276 --> 0:16:49.756 where there is no no one looking out for the 0:16:49.876 --> 0:16:52.876 promising fourth grader, what happens to those kids? 0:16:53.436 --> 0:16:58.356 Well, when we came here, they discouraged me from waiting 0:16:58.476 --> 0:17:01.836 until the eighth grade to meet with the boys, which 0:17:01.876 --> 0:17:04.916 is what I wanted to do. They said, you can't 0:17:04.956 --> 0:17:07.996 wait that long because eighty percent of those boys get 0:17:08.036 --> 0:17:11.476 gang affiliated by the eighth grade. 0:17:11.556 --> 0:17:15.916 Eighty percent gone by the eighth grade. Then comes high school, 0:17:16.276 --> 0:17:18.796 but there is no high school in Lenox. The kids 0:17:18.796 --> 0:17:21.436 from Lenox have to go one town over to Hawthorne, 0:17:21.676 --> 0:17:25.436 and that means crossing gang lines. Remember that statistic that 0:17:25.556 --> 0:17:28.276 Husby and Avery came up with for the total number 0:17:28.316 --> 0:17:32.196 of smart poor kids. It's low. That number is based 0:17:32.196 --> 0:17:34.356 on the pool of high school seniors who took either 0:17:34.436 --> 0:17:37.796 the ACT or the SAT. So to show up in 0:17:37.836 --> 0:17:40.876 their pool of thirty five thousand poor smart kids, you 0:17:41.036 --> 0:17:42.996 had to have made it all the way to the 0:17:43.116 --> 0:17:46.236 end of high school and taking one of those standardized tests. 0:17:47.316 --> 0:17:49.476 Eric's point is at a good number of high achievers 0:17:49.516 --> 0:17:53.116 in places like Lenox never even get that far. What's 0:17:53.156 --> 0:17:55.796 the capitalization rate in Lenox if you have to cross 0:17:55.836 --> 0:18:05.956 a gang line to get to high school. I think 0:18:05.996 --> 0:18:08.596 we have an ideology about talent that says the talent 0:18:08.676 --> 0:18:11.956 is a tangible, resilient, hard and shiny thing. It will 0:18:11.996 --> 0:18:15.436 always rise to the top. And to find and encourage talent, 0:18:15.796 --> 0:18:17.916 all you have to do as a society is to 0:18:17.956 --> 0:18:21.236 make sure the right doors are open. Free campus visits 0:18:21.556 --> 0:18:25.676 free tuition letters to the kids with high scores. That's 0:18:25.716 --> 0:18:29.036 the ideology of the admissions officer. You raise your hand 0:18:29.076 --> 0:18:32.116 and say over here, and the talent will come running. 0:18:32.796 --> 0:18:35.796 But that's not true in Lenox. It's not resilient and shiny. 0:18:35.836 --> 0:18:43.036 At Lennox Middle School, talent is really, really fragile. So 0:18:43.236 --> 0:18:46.596 Eric found Carlos and Lenox and used his West Side 0:18:46.716 --> 0:18:49.876 LA lawyer savvy to get Carlos into an elite private 0:18:49.876 --> 0:18:54.116 elementary school in Brentwood. Every morning, Carlos took a long 0:18:54.196 --> 0:18:56.236 bus ride up the four or five from Lenox to 0:18:56.276 --> 0:18:59.196 this school. I've known Eric for a long time, and 0:18:59.236 --> 0:19:01.316 I always joke with him that the slogan of his 0:19:01.396 --> 0:19:04.836 organization YES ought to be that every Los Angeles public 0:19:04.876 --> 0:19:08.636 school child deserves his own Jewish entertainment lawyer. He always 0:19:08.716 --> 0:19:10.956 laughs because that's what he's been doing for close to 0:19:10.996 --> 0:19:14.476 twenty years, cutting deals with private schools for his YES kids. 0:19:15.396 --> 0:19:17.636 So Carlos is doing really well. Of course he is. 0:19:18.156 --> 0:19:22.236 He's an exceptional student. Eric starts looking for Carlos's next step. 0:19:22.876 --> 0:19:26.156 He makes some inquiries. Carlos gets an offer of a 0:19:26.196 --> 0:19:29.316 full ride scholarship to one of the most exclusive private 0:19:29.356 --> 0:19:31.996 high schools in the country. If he were a kid 0:19:31.996 --> 0:19:34.916 from a normal middle class neighborhood and family, you'd say 0:19:35.076 --> 0:19:37.276 he's all set. But he's not. 0:19:38.476 --> 0:19:41.276 I've really wanted to go to boarding school. Yeah no, 0:19:41.636 --> 0:19:43.756 But in the end I didn't get to go. 0:19:44.076 --> 0:19:48.316 The boarding school he's referring to is Choate in Central Connecticut. 0:19:48.716 --> 0:19:52.196 It's his ticket out. But remember I said that Carlos's 0:19:52.236 --> 0:19:57.676 story gets complicated. Well, here's yet another complication. Carlos has 0:19:57.716 --> 0:20:00.556 a little sister. She's also in the room with us, 0:20:00.996 --> 0:20:04.316 along with Elena Bereff, who runs Yes. With Eric, we 0:20:04.396 --> 0:20:08.316 start talking about why Carlos couldn't go to Choate's. 0:20:07.636 --> 0:20:10.396 The summer after your birthday. 0:20:10.556 --> 0:20:13.436 Right, it was the summer before Carlos was supposed to 0:20:13.516 --> 0:20:16.156 go to high school. But Eric has to remind him 0:20:16.316 --> 0:20:18.876 that there was a lot else going on other than school. 0:20:19.356 --> 0:20:25.716 Yeah, you won't talk about well, in the eighth it 0:20:25.836 --> 0:20:30.476 was eighth grade, right, eighth grade for me, foster care. Yeah, 0:20:30.556 --> 0:20:31.116 I forget. 0:20:31.956 --> 0:20:35.436 Did you catch that? He set up really quickly under 0:20:35.436 --> 0:20:38.436 his breath that phrase again, I forgot. 0:20:38.876 --> 0:20:42.996 In the summer going into the eighth grade, his sister 0:20:43.036 --> 0:20:46.396 and I were put into foster homes. 0:20:46.756 --> 0:20:50.756 Carlos and his sister were put into foster homes. 0:20:50.796 --> 0:20:54.676 We're living away from from my mother, and I guess 0:20:54.676 --> 0:20:57.556 I had a bit of an emotional, you know, toll 0:20:57.596 --> 0:21:03.236 on me. And I definitely still tried at school. I 0:21:03.276 --> 0:21:08.076 didn't let it, you know, affect my grades like too much. 0:21:09.116 --> 0:21:11.876 Maybe by now you can understand the strategic value of 0:21:11.916 --> 0:21:15.436 Carlos's selective memory, because there weren't a lot of good 0:21:15.476 --> 0:21:18.516 things happening in his life. I'll let you use your imagination. 0:21:19.116 --> 0:21:23.876 It was bad, Lennox bad, not Brentwood bad. Then he says, 0:21:24.516 --> 0:21:27.796 I definitely still tried at school. I didn't let it 0:21:27.836 --> 0:21:32.076 affect my grades too much. Things are falling apart, but 0:21:32.156 --> 0:21:35.636 he understands that he has one way out, and that 0:21:35.796 --> 0:21:38.196 is to be a great student, not a good one. 0:21:38.596 --> 0:21:41.996 Good doesn't get you anywhere a great one. So he 0:21:42.116 --> 0:21:45.876 puts everything else in a box. He's got to take 0:21:45.956 --> 0:21:51.236 care of his sister and get good grades. I spoke 0:21:51.276 --> 0:21:52.356 with Eric about it later. 0:21:53.076 --> 0:21:56.956 He took on this burden that was so above his 0:21:57.036 --> 0:22:00.396 skill set of being a father, of being a husband, 0:22:00.636 --> 0:22:03.196 being everything. And that's why she wouldn't let him go 0:22:03.236 --> 0:22:06.036 to choke when they gave him a full scholars Oh that. 0:22:06.116 --> 0:22:10.116 Was the she he's talking about is Carlos's mother. 0:22:10.956 --> 0:22:17.116 You can imagine how frustrating and angering that was for me, 0:22:17.956 --> 0:22:20.716 the opportunity of him going to a school like that 0:22:21.036 --> 0:22:26.156 and getting away from all that and her understand to 0:22:26.236 --> 0:22:30.596 bleed killing it because he was taking care of her 0:22:31.036 --> 0:22:33.076 and that's what he was what in the. 0:22:33.036 --> 0:22:35.596 Eighth grade he did say I would have liked to 0:22:35.596 --> 0:22:36.436 go to boarding school. 0:22:36.476 --> 0:22:37.796 Oh, he definitely wanted to go. 0:22:39.036 --> 0:22:43.196 We sort of licked our wounds by convincing ourselves that 0:22:43.836 --> 0:22:46.596 at least he would be there for the little sister. 0:22:47.436 --> 0:22:51.156 It's a chaotic time. Carlos's mother tells him not to 0:22:51.196 --> 0:22:54.236 go to Choate but stay so he can take care 0:22:54.276 --> 0:22:57.676 of her and his sister. Then the two are taken 0:22:57.716 --> 0:23:00.796 from their mother. They become wards of Los Angeles County. 0:23:01.156 --> 0:23:04.196 You know, growing up with your parents and being suddenly, 0:23:05.116 --> 0:23:08.076 you know, taken away, and you know it can't be good. 0:23:10.636 --> 0:23:13.956 But I guess, I guess the hardest part was moving 0:23:14.196 --> 0:23:17.316 around house house Like It's not that I moved to 0:23:17.396 --> 0:23:20.076 one foster home and then stay there for a year 0:23:20.076 --> 0:23:22.916 and a half. I've I think four. 0:23:24.156 --> 0:23:26.996 Homes and worse than that. For a time, he was 0:23:27.036 --> 0:23:30.516 separated from his little sister. How long were you separated. 0:23:30.076 --> 0:23:34.116 For the first foster home? Didn't that We weren't separated 0:23:34.116 --> 0:23:37.156 for too long because we made a point to our 0:23:37.196 --> 0:23:40.876 social workers to please, no reunite us. 0:23:41.196 --> 0:23:43.236 He's making it sound like it wasn't that much of 0:23:43.236 --> 0:23:47.676 a big deal. It was a big deal. Choke goes away, 0:23:48.156 --> 0:23:52.076 their mother goes away. Now his little sister is taken away, 0:23:52.156 --> 0:23:54.636 and the two of them start bouncing around the foster 0:23:54.716 --> 0:23:58.236 homes of South LA and made a point to our 0:23:58.236 --> 0:24:01.716 social workers to please reunite us. It was a war. 0:24:02.596 --> 0:24:04.196 This is Eric again from later. 0:24:04.676 --> 0:24:08.636 He didn't tell you how disastrous these first foster homes were. 0:24:09.116 --> 0:24:12.316 When you say disastrous, what do you mean just idiotic? 0:24:12.796 --> 0:24:15.276 I mean it wasn't like, oh, thank god, they're in 0:24:15.356 --> 0:24:18.116 this wonderful home. First of all, they were one of 0:24:18.236 --> 0:24:20.196 five foster kids in the You know what I mean, 0:24:20.276 --> 0:24:23.076 This is not let us take you into our home. 0:24:23.476 --> 0:24:24.996 This is how much are you going to pay us? 0:24:25.036 --> 0:24:30.756 How many kids can we write? Meanwhile, the mother is 0:24:30.956 --> 0:24:35.596 roaming around the planet like beetlejuice, and we have to, 0:24:36.396 --> 0:24:39.236 you know, keep her at babe. It was just you know, it. 0:24:39.316 --> 0:24:40.756 Was a mess. 0:24:41.596 --> 0:24:42.596 Did you know your father? 0:24:43.276 --> 0:24:46.956 Yeah? Yeah, I still have my father, and I we 0:24:48.356 --> 0:24:50.716