1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:15,796 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:18,596 --> 00:00:20,676 Speaker 2: Yes, I am a sophomore high school. 3 00:00:20,476 --> 00:00:23,396 Speaker 1: And that high school you started there in ninth grade. 4 00:00:23,876 --> 00:00:25,156 Speaker 2: No, this is my first year. 5 00:00:25,236 --> 00:00:25,996 Speaker 1: This is your first year. 6 00:00:26,076 --> 00:00:26,276 Speaker 2: Yeah. 7 00:00:26,356 --> 00:00:28,396 Speaker 1: Yeah, Were you challenged in your old school? 8 00:00:29,556 --> 00:00:30,956 Speaker 2: Uh? No, no, not really. 9 00:00:40,716 --> 00:00:44,036 Speaker 1: Welcome to Revisionist History, where every week we re examined 10 00:00:44,036 --> 00:00:47,876 Speaker 1: something from the past that's been forgotten or misunderstood. I'm 11 00:00:47,916 --> 00:01:00,996 Speaker 1: Malcolm Gladwell. This episode is about a young man named Carlos, 12 00:01:01,356 --> 00:01:03,516 Speaker 1: which is not his real name. I've changed it for 13 00:01:03,556 --> 00:01:13,076 Speaker 1: reasons that will become obvious. Were you bored most of 14 00:01:13,076 --> 00:01:14,836 Speaker 1: the time and what were you doing when you're sitting 15 00:01:14,836 --> 00:01:15,356 Speaker 1: in class? 16 00:01:16,156 --> 00:01:20,356 Speaker 2: Well, I usually finished my class work a lot earlier 17 00:01:21,076 --> 00:01:24,076 Speaker 2: in some of the other kids, and I guess I 18 00:01:24,236 --> 00:01:25,476 Speaker 2: was a little bored. 19 00:01:26,156 --> 00:01:29,556 Speaker 1: Carlos is slight, a little short for his age, braces, 20 00:01:29,876 --> 00:01:33,516 Speaker 1: thick head of black hair. A good looking kid, but normal. 21 00:01:34,036 --> 00:01:35,596 Speaker 1: He wouldn't stand out if you saw him on a 22 00:01:35,636 --> 00:01:40,276 Speaker 1: school bus. It's his manner that's distinctive for a teenager. 23 00:01:40,316 --> 00:01:43,796 Speaker 1: He's really deliberate, thoughtful, a little guarded in a way 24 00:01:43,796 --> 00:01:47,156 Speaker 1: that makes him seem much older. He lives in Los Angeles. 25 00:01:47,676 --> 00:01:50,196 Speaker 1: He's just transferred from a massive public high school, to 26 00:01:50,236 --> 00:01:51,356 Speaker 1: an elite private school. 27 00:01:51,636 --> 00:01:55,996 Speaker 2: I really enjoy math. Math is just is not easy, 28 00:01:56,796 --> 00:01:58,156 Speaker 2: but it just makes the most sense. 29 00:01:58,556 --> 00:02:02,276 Speaker 1: When he talks about math, Carlos relaxes. He looks happy, 30 00:02:02,876 --> 00:02:05,596 Speaker 1: like math is the warmest and safest place he knows. 31 00:02:06,476 --> 00:02:08,476 Speaker 2: Some people just say they hate math because they don't 32 00:02:08,556 --> 00:02:11,556 Speaker 2: understand it. But I just like learning about, like the 33 00:02:11,636 --> 00:02:15,276 Speaker 2: concepts of math. When I can understand something, I feel, 34 00:02:16,276 --> 00:02:21,236 Speaker 2: it just makes it. Everything's very precise, you know, it's 35 00:02:21,276 --> 00:02:24,116 Speaker 2: not a lot of room for error. That's I guess 36 00:02:24,116 --> 00:02:24,956 Speaker 2: that's why I like math. 37 00:02:25,196 --> 00:02:27,156 Speaker 1: Is that the subject that you'd get the best grades in. 38 00:02:28,036 --> 00:02:31,156 Speaker 2: Well, I do get pretty good grades all my classes. 39 00:02:31,676 --> 00:02:33,596 Speaker 1: What's the last time in school you ever felt that 40 00:02:33,636 --> 00:02:36,756 Speaker 1: you didn't understand something or couldn't do something. 41 00:02:36,516 --> 00:02:41,756 Speaker 2: Or I'm going to sound kind of arrogant, I think, 42 00:02:41,876 --> 00:02:46,996 Speaker 2: but most concepts that I'm taught, I catch on to 43 00:02:47,036 --> 00:02:47,796 Speaker 2: them pretty quickly. 44 00:02:52,076 --> 00:02:55,636 Speaker 1: Carlos is a smart kid. He's gotten a scholarship to 45 00:02:55,716 --> 00:02:59,836 Speaker 1: a really good private school. He's excelling. It's not hard 46 00:02:59,876 --> 00:03:02,316 Speaker 1: to imagine that one day he'll go to a college 47 00:03:02,316 --> 00:03:06,956 Speaker 1: of his choice. He's going places. This is what civilized 48 00:03:06,996 --> 00:03:11,196 Speaker 1: societies are supposed to do to provide opportunities for people 49 00:03:11,356 --> 00:03:14,396 Speaker 1: to make the most of their ability, so that if 50 00:03:14,436 --> 00:03:17,356 Speaker 1: you're born poor, you can move up. If you work hard, 51 00:03:17,556 --> 00:03:22,116 Speaker 1: you can improve your lot. There's even a term for this, capitalization. 52 00:03:23,796 --> 00:03:27,756 Speaker 1: A society's capitalization rate is the percentage of people in 53 00:03:27,836 --> 00:03:32,036 Speaker 1: any group who are able to reach their potential capitalize 54 00:03:32,076 --> 00:03:35,836 Speaker 1: on their potential. I think the capitalization rate is one 55 00:03:35,836 --> 00:03:38,596 Speaker 1: of the single best ways we have to capture how 56 00:03:38,716 --> 00:03:43,436 Speaker 1: successful and just a society is. If I know that number, 57 00:03:43,716 --> 00:03:45,836 Speaker 1: I think I have a better handle on how well 58 00:03:45,836 --> 00:03:48,076 Speaker 1: a country is doing than if I know it's GDP 59 00:03:48,716 --> 00:03:52,356 Speaker 1: or its growth rate or its per capita income. And 60 00:03:52,476 --> 00:03:56,196 Speaker 1: right from the beginning, Americans have told themselves that they're 61 00:03:56,276 --> 00:04:01,196 Speaker 1: really good at capitalization, really good at social mobility. Any 62 00:04:01,316 --> 00:04:04,716 Speaker 1: kid can grow up to be president. That's what's supposed 63 00:04:04,756 --> 00:04:12,436 Speaker 1: to set America apart from everywhere else. Over the course 64 00:04:12,596 --> 00:04:16,036 Speaker 1: of the next three episodes of Revisionist History, I want 65 00:04:16,076 --> 00:04:19,756 Speaker 1: to reevaluate this idea, go back and ask the question, 66 00:04:20,436 --> 00:04:24,116 Speaker 1: is it true that we're good at capitalization. In one 67 00:04:24,196 --> 00:04:27,036 Speaker 1: upcoming show, we're going to talk about where the money 68 00:04:27,036 --> 00:04:30,036 Speaker 1: goes in American higher ed. I'm going to take you 69 00:04:30,236 --> 00:04:32,916 Speaker 1: to a small college in South Jersey and ask the 70 00:04:32,996 --> 00:04:36,236 Speaker 1: question is the system geared to serve the poor smart 71 00:04:36,276 --> 00:04:40,556 Speaker 1: kid or the rich smart kid. In another episode, I'm 72 00:04:40,596 --> 00:04:43,556 Speaker 1: going to compare two liberal arts colleges and ask what 73 00:04:43,716 --> 00:04:47,596 Speaker 1: happens when a school really tries to help someone like Carlos. 74 00:04:48,196 --> 00:04:51,596 Speaker 1: But this episode is about Carlos himself, because his story 75 00:04:51,636 --> 00:04:55,076 Speaker 1: is a little more complicated than it seems, actually a 76 00:04:55,116 --> 00:05:02,236 Speaker 1: lot more complicated. I met Carlos through a man named 77 00:05:02,396 --> 00:05:05,956 Speaker 1: Eric Eisner, And what was your first impression of it? 78 00:05:07,396 --> 00:05:08,276 Speaker 2: Mister Eisner? 79 00:05:09,116 --> 00:05:10,916 Speaker 1: You can speak freely even though he's in the. 80 00:05:10,956 --> 00:05:15,676 Speaker 2: Room ostris at caned be intimidating and sometimes. 81 00:05:16,116 --> 00:05:19,116 Speaker 1: Eric used to be a big shot entertainment lawyer back 82 00:05:19,116 --> 00:05:21,516 Speaker 1: in the day. He worked for David Geffen. He's a 83 00:05:21,596 --> 00:05:26,396 Speaker 1: kind of athlete swagger, wears impeccable tom Ford suits. Anyway, 84 00:05:26,596 --> 00:05:29,316 Speaker 1: he retired in the early nineteen nineties and a few 85 00:05:29,356 --> 00:05:32,636 Speaker 1: years later started a program for gifted public school kids 86 00:05:32,636 --> 00:05:36,276 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles. It's called Yes. He talks to a 87 00:05:36,276 --> 00:05:39,916 Speaker 1: lot of teachers, looks at test scores, identifies the most 88 00:05:39,956 --> 00:05:44,036 Speaker 1: promising kids, tutors them, and uses his connections to get 89 00:05:44,036 --> 00:05:47,236 Speaker 1: them into private schools. He's been doing it for nearly 90 00:05:47,276 --> 00:05:51,196 Speaker 1: twenty years. A couple hundred students have passed through Yes 91 00:05:51,476 --> 00:05:53,476 Speaker 1: and have gone on to graduate from some of the 92 00:05:53,516 --> 00:05:57,756 Speaker 1: top universities in the country. Carlos is one of his kids. 93 00:05:58,516 --> 00:06:01,076 Speaker 1: When Carlos was in fifth grade, Eric got him into 94 00:06:01,076 --> 00:06:06,516 Speaker 1: a fancy elementary school in Brentwood. Now several years later, 95 00:06:06,916 --> 00:06:09,796 Speaker 1: Carlos comes to meet me at Eric's house in bel Air, 96 00:06:10,076 --> 00:06:13,596 Speaker 1: up one of those winding, gorgeous canyon roads from Sunset Boulevard. 97 00:06:14,316 --> 00:06:17,396 Speaker 1: I'm across the table from Carlos. Eric is behind me, 98 00:06:17,476 --> 00:06:20,236 Speaker 1: sitting in an armchair. That's why his voice is sometimes 99 00:06:20,236 --> 00:06:24,036 Speaker 1: a little faint. Eric asks Carlos to think back to 100 00:06:24,076 --> 00:06:27,596 Speaker 1: that fancy elementary school in Brentwood. Did he feel self 101 00:06:27,636 --> 00:06:28,596 Speaker 1: conscious going there? 102 00:06:29,036 --> 00:06:30,956 Speaker 2: I did, but not because I was Hispanic. 103 00:06:31,916 --> 00:06:35,156 Speaker 1: Eric asks whether it was because Carlos was poor and 104 00:06:35,236 --> 00:06:39,236 Speaker 1: those kids were rich. Did that make Carlos feel self conscious? 105 00:06:39,556 --> 00:06:42,996 Speaker 2: Well, not a thing about it. I think it kind of, 106 00:06:43,036 --> 00:06:48,876 Speaker 2: did you know it? Definitely? I felt like I was 107 00:06:48,916 --> 00:06:53,236 Speaker 2: the only one, not the only one the episode with sneakers. 108 00:06:53,836 --> 00:06:58,396 Speaker 1: Eric asks about the episode with the sneakers. Did Carlos 109 00:06:58,436 --> 00:07:02,276 Speaker 1: remember that? Do you erase this from your memory I have, I. 110 00:07:03,756 --> 00:07:04,836 Speaker 2: Can tell me what happened. 111 00:07:05,156 --> 00:07:08,156 Speaker 1: Here's what happened. The teachers in Brentwood called Eric to 112 00:07:08,196 --> 00:07:09,996 Speaker 1: tell him that Carlos would isn't playing with the other 113 00:07:10,076 --> 00:07:13,076 Speaker 1: kids at recess, even though he seemed very engaged with 114 00:07:13,156 --> 00:07:16,436 Speaker 1: him in the classroom. Eric then talked with Carlos and 115 00:07:16,516 --> 00:07:19,716 Speaker 1: noticed that his sneakers were about three sizes too big. 116 00:07:20,316 --> 00:07:22,516 Speaker 1: So he bought him shoes the right size, and that's 117 00:07:22,516 --> 00:07:24,716 Speaker 1: solved the problem. Do you remember this. 118 00:07:24,636 --> 00:07:27,996 Speaker 2: Well, the being not wanting to play the sports with 119 00:07:28,276 --> 00:07:30,996 Speaker 2: the other kids, That does ring a bell, But I 120 00:07:31,556 --> 00:07:32,596 Speaker 2: don't remember the sneakers. 121 00:07:32,956 --> 00:07:36,076 Speaker 1: Eric says Carlos's sneakers were so big they curled up 122 00:07:36,116 --> 00:07:40,596 Speaker 1: like elf shoes. But Carlos says he doesn't remember the sneakers. 123 00:07:41,236 --> 00:07:49,516 Speaker 1: This happens to him a lot. I said at the 124 00:07:49,516 --> 00:07:54,116 Speaker 1: beginning that the capitalization story for people like Carlos is complicated, 125 00:07:54,516 --> 00:07:57,396 Speaker 1: and this is what I mean. Carlos is a really, 126 00:07:57,436 --> 00:08:01,836 Speaker 1: really gifted kid. But it's almost impossible to imagine Carlos 127 00:08:01,956 --> 00:08:05,636 Speaker 1: making it into the fancy school without Eric. In other words, 128 00:08:05,916 --> 00:08:08,756 Speaker 1: in order for the system to work, for the smart 129 00:08:08,836 --> 00:08:11,596 Speaker 1: kid to make it up the ladder, he needs an advocate, 130 00:08:12,076 --> 00:08:15,356 Speaker 1: and not just an ordinary advocate, a high power guy 131 00:08:15,636 --> 00:08:18,476 Speaker 1: with lots of connections who can get you in and 132 00:08:18,596 --> 00:08:21,356 Speaker 1: watch over you and make sure you get new sneakers 133 00:08:21,596 --> 00:08:24,316 Speaker 1: because the ones you have are curled up like elfshoes. 134 00:08:25,356 --> 00:08:30,596 Speaker 1: Capitalization requires an Eric Eisner. And how many Eric Eisner's 135 00:08:30,596 --> 00:08:33,836 Speaker 1: do you think there are out there? Then there's the 136 00:08:33,956 --> 00:08:38,996 Speaker 1: second complication. To find opportunity, Carlos had to go to Brentwood, 137 00:08:39,436 --> 00:08:42,356 Speaker 1: forty five minutes up the freeway from where he grew up, 138 00:08:42,916 --> 00:08:47,276 Speaker 1: a wealthy, white, leafy green neighborhood. The truth is that's 139 00:08:47,316 --> 00:08:51,236 Speaker 1: where opportunity is in America these days. But you can't 140 00:08:51,276 --> 00:08:54,276 Speaker 1: just jump from where Carlos was from straight to Brentwood 141 00:08:54,316 --> 00:08:58,116 Speaker 1: and leave your past behind. Your past comes with you. 142 00:09:00,036 --> 00:09:01,516 Speaker 1: What were the other students. 143 00:09:01,156 --> 00:09:06,836 Speaker 2: Like, Well, those students, well, you know, actually kids aren't 144 00:09:06,836 --> 00:09:13,356 Speaker 2: going to be kids, and so they weren't two different. Okay, 145 00:09:13,916 --> 00:09:19,116 Speaker 2: I need to give me a second here, I'm being nervous. 146 00:09:20,716 --> 00:09:24,236 Speaker 1: A few years ago, two prominent economists, Carolyne Hawkesby of 147 00:09:24,276 --> 00:09:27,756 Speaker 1: Stanford and Chris Avery of Harvard published a really important 148 00:09:27,796 --> 00:09:32,156 Speaker 1: paper called The Missing One Offs. Hawksby and Avery start 149 00:09:32,156 --> 00:09:35,316 Speaker 1: out by talking about something that happened ten years ago. 150 00:09:35,516 --> 00:09:38,636 Speaker 1: That's when some of the elite US colleges, the Harvard's 151 00:09:38,636 --> 00:09:41,516 Speaker 1: and Princetons of the world, announced that they'd give free 152 00:09:41,556 --> 00:09:44,676 Speaker 1: tuition to any deserving student who came from the bottom 153 00:09:44,716 --> 00:09:48,476 Speaker 1: of the economic ladder. At the time, the cutoff was 154 00:09:48,516 --> 00:09:51,476 Speaker 1: a family income of forty thousand dollars a year. Now 155 00:09:51,476 --> 00:09:54,676 Speaker 1: it's sixty five thousand. In other words, if a poor 156 00:09:54,796 --> 00:09:57,636 Speaker 1: kid is smart enough to get in, she can attend 157 00:09:57,676 --> 00:10:00,876 Speaker 1: for free. And what happens after the elite schools make 158 00:10:00,916 --> 00:10:04,756 Speaker 1: this announcement not much. To use Harvard as an example, 159 00:10:04,996 --> 00:10:07,956 Speaker 1: they ended up taking in about an additional fifteen or 160 00:10:08,036 --> 00:10:11,836 Speaker 1: so low income student year after changing their policies. That's 161 00:10:11,876 --> 00:10:14,636 Speaker 1: out of a freshman class of more than sixteen hundred. 162 00:10:15,156 --> 00:10:18,636 Speaker 1: It's a drop in the bucket. Let me quote directly 163 00:10:18,636 --> 00:10:23,676 Speaker 1: from the paper now, because this is a crucial point. Interestingly, 164 00:10:23,956 --> 00:10:26,796 Speaker 1: this very modest effect was not a surprise to many 165 00:10:26,796 --> 00:10:30,396 Speaker 1: college admission staff. They explained that there was a small 166 00:10:30,436 --> 00:10:33,836 Speaker 1: pool of low income, high achieving students who were already 167 00:10:33,956 --> 00:10:38,156 Speaker 1: fully tapped, so that additional aid and recruiting could do 168 00:10:38,316 --> 00:10:41,956 Speaker 1: little except shift them among institutions that were fairly similar 169 00:10:42,876 --> 00:10:45,996 Speaker 1: In other words, the admissions officers felt they had gone 170 00:10:46,076 --> 00:10:48,636 Speaker 1: out of their way to look for these kinds of kids. 171 00:10:49,356 --> 00:10:51,796 Speaker 1: They'd made special visits to high schools with lots of 172 00:10:51,796 --> 00:10:54,556 Speaker 1: poor students, that sent out letters to kids with high 173 00:10:54,556 --> 00:10:57,436 Speaker 1: test coores living in bad neighborhoods. They had built a 174 00:10:57,476 --> 00:11:01,556 Speaker 1: network of guidance counselors. They sponsored free campus visits for 175 00:11:01,596 --> 00:11:04,636 Speaker 1: low income students, and they made it tuition free. But 176 00:11:04,716 --> 00:11:07,036 Speaker 1: if you do all those things and you only get 177 00:11:07,076 --> 00:11:10,116 Speaker 1: an extra fifteen smart poor cares a year at Harvard, 178 00:11:10,756 --> 00:11:12,596 Speaker 1: that must mean that there aren't a lot of poor 179 00:11:12,596 --> 00:11:16,836 Speaker 1: smart kids out there. They're talking about Carlos. They're saying 180 00:11:16,836 --> 00:11:27,796 Speaker 1: that kids like Carlos are pretty rare. Hoxby and Avery 181 00:11:27,836 --> 00:11:31,236 Speaker 1: decide to fact check this is it true. They go 182 00:11:31,316 --> 00:11:33,596 Speaker 1: to the College Board and get the entire database of 183 00:11:33,636 --> 00:11:38,316 Speaker 1: college test scores SAT and ACT. Then they take those 184 00:11:38,356 --> 00:11:41,116 Speaker 1: scores and match each score to a high school and 185 00:11:41,156 --> 00:11:43,956 Speaker 1: a neighborhood and a zip code, and to all they 186 00:11:43,956 --> 00:11:46,956 Speaker 1: could find about where the student comes from. And they 187 00:11:47,116 --> 00:11:49,756 Speaker 1: end up with a giant map of every high achieving, 188 00:11:49,836 --> 00:11:53,396 Speaker 1: low income high school senior in the country. And here's 189 00:11:53,436 --> 00:11:59,676 Speaker 1: what Hoxby and Avery discover the admissions officers are totally wrong. Actually, 190 00:11:59,876 --> 00:12:02,516 Speaker 1: there are a huge number of poor smart kids in 191 00:12:02,516 --> 00:12:06,716 Speaker 1: the United States. There's probably thirty five thousand students a 192 00:12:06,796 --> 00:12:09,916 Speaker 1: year who score in the ninetieth percent or above on 193 00:12:09,956 --> 00:12:13,956 Speaker 1: their SATs, and who also come from families living on 194 00:12:14,076 --> 00:12:17,556 Speaker 1: less than forty thousand dollars a year. Now, keep in mind, 195 00:12:17,596 --> 00:12:19,996 Speaker 1: these are kids who don't have tutors, who don't go 196 00:12:20,116 --> 00:12:23,316 Speaker 1: to high schools with a million advanced placement courses, and 197 00:12:23,356 --> 00:12:26,036 Speaker 1: who probably took the test once, not two or three 198 00:12:26,076 --> 00:12:29,116 Speaker 1: times like upper middle class kids. So these scores are 199 00:12:29,116 --> 00:12:31,796 Speaker 1: on the low side. These are kids who could ace 200 00:12:31,836 --> 00:12:39,516 Speaker 1: a test in one shot. Seven. Eric Eisner started yes 201 00:12:39,836 --> 00:12:42,756 Speaker 1: almost twenty years ago at an LA Middle School in 202 00:12:42,796 --> 00:12:46,676 Speaker 1: a place called Lenox, which is this small, heavily Hispanic 203 00:12:46,716 --> 00:12:50,636 Speaker 1: community of about twenty thousand people hallowed out in the 204 00:12:50,676 --> 00:12:53,556 Speaker 1: middle of Los Angeles, right across the four or five 205 00:12:53,596 --> 00:12:58,356 Speaker 1: freeway from Lax. I mean, right across you can practically 206 00:12:58,436 --> 00:13:03,516 Speaker 1: touch the planes as they take off and land. The 207 00:13:03,596 --> 00:13:07,156 Speaker 1: median household income in Lenox is thirty seven thousand dollars 208 00:13:07,196 --> 00:13:20,436 Speaker 1: a year. It's not a good name. Lennox Middle School 209 00:13:20,436 --> 00:13:24,156 Speaker 1: has six hundred kids per grade. The classrooms are these 210 00:13:24,156 --> 00:13:28,116 Speaker 1: standalone wooden and cinderblock huts, row upon row of them. 211 00:13:28,676 --> 00:13:30,796 Speaker 1: They only put in windows in the huts last year, 212 00:13:31,556 --> 00:13:34,476 Speaker 1: tiny little windows high on the wall. There's a big 213 00:13:34,516 --> 00:13:37,276 Speaker 1: fence around the outside, a guard in a hut at 214 00:13:37,276 --> 00:13:39,716 Speaker 1: the gate. I don't want this to come across the 215 00:13:39,756 --> 00:13:44,836 Speaker 1: wrong way, but Lennox looks like a concentration camp. When 216 00:13:44,836 --> 00:13:47,876 Speaker 1: I was there, a police cruiser drove slowly back and 217 00:13:47,956 --> 00:13:50,836 Speaker 1: forth between the long rows of huts. Oh, and next 218 00:13:50,836 --> 00:13:53,276 Speaker 1: to the principal's office there are what looked like six 219 00:13:53,436 --> 00:13:58,076 Speaker 1: narrow closets, solitary confinement cells where they stash a kid 220 00:13:58,116 --> 00:14:01,556 Speaker 1: until the cops come. Remember this is a middle school. 221 00:14:02,276 --> 00:14:04,476 Speaker 1: You go to a place like Lenox and you can't 222 00:14:04,476 --> 00:14:08,036 Speaker 1: help feeling hopeless. This is as bad as La gets. 223 00:14:08,916 --> 00:14:11,436 Speaker 1: Right from the beginning when he came there looking for 224 00:14:11,476 --> 00:14:15,716 Speaker 1: bright kids. Eric Eisner hit Peter, I'm curious about the 225 00:14:15,756 --> 00:14:19,516 Speaker 1: idea you can go to a fairly randomly selected middle 226 00:14:19,516 --> 00:14:24,876 Speaker 1: school in a disadvantaged neighborhood in a major American city 227 00:14:25,396 --> 00:14:31,836 Speaker 1: and reliably find every year a handful of really, really 228 00:14:31,876 --> 00:14:34,316 Speaker 1: really gifted kids, Right. 229 00:14:34,516 --> 00:14:39,036 Speaker 3: I think, yeah, it's it varies even within the school. 230 00:14:39,156 --> 00:14:41,636 Speaker 3: From year to year, you never know what kind of 231 00:14:41,676 --> 00:14:44,116 Speaker 3: crop it's going to be. It's a little like wine. 232 00:14:44,556 --> 00:14:49,156 Speaker 3: But some years it's very very few, and sometimes one 233 00:14:49,236 --> 00:14:51,796 Speaker 3: or none. But then other years you'll they'll be five 234 00:14:51,876 --> 00:14:55,716 Speaker 3: of them. But there is you know, it's it's it's 235 00:14:55,756 --> 00:14:58,836 Speaker 3: not like you're looking for a needle in a haystack. 236 00:14:59,716 --> 00:15:02,516 Speaker 1: It's not like you're looking for a needle in a haystack. 237 00:15:03,236 --> 00:15:09,436 Speaker 1: There's a ton of talent out there, all right. If 238 00:15:09,436 --> 00:15:12,196 Speaker 1: there are so many smart poor kids, why aren't they 239 00:15:12,236 --> 00:15:16,036 Speaker 1: showing up at places like Harvard. The researchers Avery and 240 00:15:16,076 --> 00:15:18,236 Speaker 1: Hawsby find that a good chunk of the thirty five 241 00:15:18,276 --> 00:15:21,436 Speaker 1: thousand high achievers don't even so much as apply to 242 00:15:21,516 --> 00:15:25,916 Speaker 1: a good school. That's crazy, right. Most selective schools are 243 00:15:25,956 --> 00:15:29,316 Speaker 1: practically free for these kids. An elite school is cheaper 244 00:15:29,316 --> 00:15:32,636 Speaker 1: than the local state college down the street. More importantly, 245 00:15:32,876 --> 00:15:35,876 Speaker 1: these are really smart kids. We're not talking here about 246 00:15:35,916 --> 00:15:38,756 Speaker 1: some mediocre student who gets into an elite college because 247 00:15:38,796 --> 00:15:41,116 Speaker 1: he's a great football player, or his dad built a 248 00:15:41,116 --> 00:15:43,676 Speaker 1: new dorm and he ends up being way over his head. 249 00:15:43,916 --> 00:15:45,836 Speaker 1: We're talking about kids like Carlos. 250 00:15:46,436 --> 00:15:49,676 Speaker 2: Most concepts that I'm taught. I catch on something pretty quickly. 251 00:15:51,436 --> 00:15:53,916 Speaker 1: Eric thinks that the system can't find kids like Carlos 252 00:15:54,076 --> 00:15:57,676 Speaker 1: because it starts looking much too late. The admissions officers 253 00:15:57,716 --> 00:16:00,836 Speaker 1: are sending out their letters to high school juniors seventeen 254 00:16:00,916 --> 00:16:04,476 Speaker 1: year olds kidding me in Lenox. Eric says, you have 255 00:16:04,556 --> 00:16:07,036 Speaker 1: to start finding the smart kids in the fourth grade. 256 00:16:07,476 --> 00:16:09,836 Speaker 1: That's because they may not even show up later. 257 00:16:12,236 --> 00:16:15,516 Speaker 3: It's like any muscle, it atrophies. And then by the 258 00:16:15,596 --> 00:16:21,396 Speaker 3: time the boy girl thing happens, if that hasn't been encouraged, 259 00:16:21,396 --> 00:16:26,156 Speaker 3: that excitement of being smart, it goes. It goes away 260 00:16:26,156 --> 00:16:29,156 Speaker 3: because when the struggle hits them of going to any 261 00:16:29,236 --> 00:16:33,356 Speaker 3: kind of challenge in college, they don't have the cleats 262 00:16:33,556 --> 00:16:36,356 Speaker 3: for that anymore. They don't have those hiking shoes anymore. 263 00:16:37,276 --> 00:16:38,756 Speaker 3: They're just not accustomed to it. 264 00:16:39,276 --> 00:16:40,956 Speaker 1: So what was happening. 265 00:16:42,156 --> 00:16:46,276 Speaker 4: Before Yes shows up at this school or in schools 266 00:16:46,276 --> 00:16:49,756 Speaker 4: where there is no no one looking out for the 267 00:16:49,876 --> 00:16:52,876 Speaker 4: promising fourth grader, what happens to those kids? 268 00:16:53,436 --> 00:16:58,356 Speaker 3: Well, when we came here, they discouraged me from waiting 269 00:16:58,476 --> 00:17:01,836 Speaker 3: until the eighth grade to meet with the boys, which 270 00:17:01,876 --> 00:17:04,916 Speaker 3: is what I wanted to do. They said, you can't 271 00:17:04,956 --> 00:17:07,996 Speaker 3: wait that long because eighty percent of those boys get 272 00:17:08,036 --> 00:17:11,476 Speaker 3: gang affiliated by the eighth grade. 273 00:17:11,556 --> 00:17:15,916 Speaker 1: Eighty percent gone by the eighth grade. Then comes high school, 274 00:17:16,276 --> 00:17:18,796 Speaker 1: but there is no high school in Lenox. The kids 275 00:17:18,796 --> 00:17:21,436 Speaker 1: from Lenox have to go one town over to Hawthorne, 276 00:17:21,676 --> 00:17:25,436 Speaker 1: and that means crossing gang lines. Remember that statistic that 277 00:17:25,556 --> 00:17:28,276 Speaker 1: Husby and Avery came up with for the total number 278 00:17:28,316 --> 00:17:32,196 Speaker 1: of smart poor kids. It's low. That number is based 279 00:17:32,196 --> 00:17:34,356 Speaker 1: on the pool of high school seniors who took either 280 00:17:34,436 --> 00:17:37,796 Speaker 1: the ACT or the SAT. So to show up in 281 00:17:37,836 --> 00:17:40,876 Speaker 1: their pool of thirty five thousand poor smart kids, you 282 00:17:41,036 --> 00:17:42,996 Speaker 1: had to have made it all the way to the 283 00:17:43,116 --> 00:17:46,236 Speaker 1: end of high school and taking one of those standardized tests. 284 00:17:47,316 --> 00:17:49,476 Speaker 1: Eric's point is at a good number of high achievers 285 00:17:49,516 --> 00:17:53,116 Speaker 1: in places like Lenox never even get that far. What's 286 00:17:53,156 --> 00:17:55,796 Speaker 1: the capitalization rate in Lenox if you have to cross 287 00:17:55,836 --> 00:18:05,956 Speaker 1: a gang line to get to high school. I think 288 00:18:05,996 --> 00:18:08,596 Speaker 1: we have an ideology about talent that says the talent 289 00:18:08,676 --> 00:18:11,956 Speaker 1: is a tangible, resilient, hard and shiny thing. It will 290 00:18:11,996 --> 00:18:15,436 Speaker 1: always rise to the top. And to find and encourage talent, 291 00:18:15,796 --> 00:18:17,916 Speaker 1: all you have to do as a society is to 292 00:18:17,956 --> 00:18:21,236 Speaker 1: make sure the right doors are open. Free campus visits 293 00:18:21,556 --> 00:18:25,676 Speaker 1: free tuition letters to the kids with high scores. That's 294 00:18:25,716 --> 00:18:29,036 Speaker 1: the ideology of the admissions officer. You raise your hand 295 00:18:29,076 --> 00:18:32,116 Speaker 1: and say over here, and the talent will come running. 296 00:18:32,796 --> 00:18:35,796 Speaker 1: But that's not true in Lenox. It's not resilient and shiny. 297 00:18:35,836 --> 00:18:43,036 Speaker 1: At Lennox Middle School, talent is really, really fragile. So 298 00:18:43,236 --> 00:18:46,596 Speaker 1: Eric found Carlos and Lenox and used his West Side 299 00:18:46,716 --> 00:18:49,876 Speaker 1: LA lawyer savvy to get Carlos into an elite private 300 00:18:49,876 --> 00:18:54,116 Speaker 1: elementary school in Brentwood. Every morning, Carlos took a long 301 00:18:54,196 --> 00:18:56,236 Speaker 1: bus ride up the four or five from Lenox to 302 00:18:56,276 --> 00:18:59,196 Speaker 1: this school. I've known Eric for a long time, and 303 00:18:59,236 --> 00:19:01,316 Speaker 1: I always joke with him that the slogan of his 304 00:19:01,396 --> 00:19:04,836 Speaker 1: organization YES ought to be that every Los Angeles public 305 00:19:04,876 --> 00:19:08,636 Speaker 1: school child deserves his own Jewish entertainment lawyer. He always 306 00:19:08,716 --> 00:19:10,956 Speaker 1: laughs because that's what he's been doing for close to 307 00:19:10,996 --> 00:19:14,476 Speaker 1: twenty years, cutting deals with private schools for his YES kids. 308 00:19:15,396 --> 00:19:17,636 Speaker 1: So Carlos is doing really well. Of course he is. 309 00:19:18,156 --> 00:19:22,236 Speaker 1: He's an exceptional student. Eric starts looking for Carlos's next step. 310 00:19:22,876 --> 00:19:26,156 Speaker 1: He makes some inquiries. Carlos gets an offer of a 311 00:19:26,196 --> 00:19:29,316 Speaker 1: full ride scholarship to one of the most exclusive private 312 00:19:29,356 --> 00:19:31,996 Speaker 1: high schools in the country. If he were a kid 313 00:19:31,996 --> 00:19:34,916 Speaker 1: from a normal middle class neighborhood and family, you'd say 314 00:19:35,076 --> 00:19:37,276 Speaker 1: he's all set. But he's not. 315 00:19:38,476 --> 00:19:41,276 Speaker 2: I've really wanted to go to boarding school. Yeah no, 316 00:19:41,636 --> 00:19:43,756 Speaker 2: But in the end I didn't get to go. 317 00:19:44,076 --> 00:19:48,316 Speaker 1: The boarding school he's referring to is Choate in Central Connecticut. 318 00:19:48,716 --> 00:19:52,196 Speaker 1: It's his ticket out. But remember I said that Carlos's 319 00:19:52,236 --> 00:19:57,676 Speaker 1: story gets complicated. Well, here's yet another complication. Carlos has 320 00:19:57,716 --> 00:20:00,556 Speaker 1: a little sister. She's also in the room with us, 321 00:20:00,996 --> 00:20:04,316 Speaker 1: along with Elena Bereff, who runs Yes. With Eric, we 322 00:20:04,396 --> 00:20:08,316 Speaker 1: start talking about why Carlos couldn't go to Choate's. 323 00:20:07,636 --> 00:20:10,396 Speaker 2: The summer after your birthday. 324 00:20:10,556 --> 00:20:13,436 Speaker 1: Right, it was the summer before Carlos was supposed to 325 00:20:13,516 --> 00:20:16,156 Speaker 1: go to high school. But Eric has to remind him 326 00:20:16,316 --> 00:20:18,876 Speaker 1: that there was a lot else going on other than school. 327 00:20:19,356 --> 00:20:25,716 Speaker 2: Yeah, you won't talk about well, in the eighth it 328 00:20:25,836 --> 00:20:30,476 Speaker 2: was eighth grade, right, eighth grade for me, foster care. Yeah, 329 00:20:30,556 --> 00:20:31,116 Speaker 2: I forget. 330 00:20:31,956 --> 00:20:35,436 Speaker 1: Did you catch that? He set up really quickly under 331 00:20:35,436 --> 00:20:38,436 Speaker 1: his breath that phrase again, I forgot. 332 00:20:38,876 --> 00:20:42,996 Speaker 2: In the summer going into the eighth grade, his sister 333 00:20:43,036 --> 00:20:46,396 Speaker 2: and I were put into foster homes. 334 00:20:46,756 --> 00:20:50,756 Speaker 1: Carlos and his sister were put into foster homes. 335 00:20:50,796 --> 00:20:54,676 Speaker 2: We're living away from from my mother, and I guess 336 00:20:54,676 --> 00:20:57,556 Speaker 2: I had a bit of an emotional, you know, toll 337 00:20:57,596 --> 00:21:03,236 Speaker 2: on me. And I definitely still tried at school. I 338 00:21:03,276 --> 00:21:08,076 Speaker 2: didn't let it, you know, affect my grades like too much. 339 00:21:09,116 --> 00:21:11,876 Speaker 1: Maybe by now you can understand the strategic value of 340 00:21:11,916 --> 00:21:15,436 Speaker 1: Carlos's selective memory, because there weren't a lot of good 341 00:21:15,476 --> 00:21:18,516 Speaker 1: things happening in his life. I'll let you use your imagination. 342 00:21:19,116 --> 00:21:23,876 Speaker 1: It was bad, Lennox bad, not Brentwood bad. Then he says, 343 00:21:24,516 --> 00:21:27,796 Speaker 1: I definitely still tried at school. I didn't let it 344 00:21:27,836 --> 00:21:32,076 Speaker 1: affect my grades too much. Things are falling apart, but 345 00:21:32,156 --> 00:21:35,636 Speaker 1: he understands that he has one way out, and that 346 00:21:35,796 --> 00:21:38,196 Speaker 1: is to be a great student, not a good one. 347 00:21:38,596 --> 00:21:41,996 Speaker 1: Good doesn't get you anywhere a great one. So he 348 00:21:42,116 --> 00:21:45,876 Speaker 1: puts everything else in a box. He's got to take 349 00:21:45,956 --> 00:21:51,236 Speaker 1: care of his sister and get good grades. I spoke 350 00:21:51,276 --> 00:21:52,356 Speaker 1: with Eric about it later. 351 00:21:53,076 --> 00:21:56,956 Speaker 3: He took on this burden that was so above his 352 00:21:57,036 --> 00:22:00,396 Speaker 3: skill set of being a father, of being a husband, 353 00:22:00,636 --> 00:22:03,196 Speaker 3: being everything. And that's why she wouldn't let him go 354 00:22:03,236 --> 00:22:06,036 Speaker 3: to choke when they gave him a full scholars Oh that. 355 00:22:06,116 --> 00:22:10,116 Speaker 1: Was the she he's talking about is Carlos's mother. 356 00:22:10,956 --> 00:22:17,116 Speaker 3: You can imagine how frustrating and angering that was for me, 357 00:22:17,956 --> 00:22:20,716 Speaker 3: the opportunity of him going to a school like that 358 00:22:21,036 --> 00:22:26,156 Speaker 3: and getting away from all that and her understand to 359 00:22:26,236 --> 00:22:30,596 Speaker 3: bleed killing it because he was taking care of her 360 00:22:31,036 --> 00:22:33,076 Speaker 3: and that's what he was what in the. 361 00:22:33,036 --> 00:22:35,596 Speaker 4: Eighth grade he did say I would have liked to 362 00:22:35,596 --> 00:22:36,436 Speaker 4: go to boarding school. 363 00:22:36,476 --> 00:22:37,796 Speaker 1: Oh, he definitely wanted to go. 364 00:22:39,036 --> 00:22:43,196 Speaker 3: We sort of licked our wounds by convincing ourselves that 365 00:22:43,836 --> 00:22:46,596 Speaker 3: at least he would be there for the little sister. 366 00:22:47,436 --> 00:22:51,156 Speaker 1: It's a chaotic time. Carlos's mother tells him not to 367 00:22:51,196 --> 00:22:54,236 Speaker 1: go to Choate but stay so he can take care 368 00:22:54,276 --> 00:22:57,676 Speaker 1: of her and his sister. Then the two are taken 369 00:22:57,716 --> 00:23:00,796 Speaker 1: from their mother. They become wards of Los Angeles County. 370 00:23:01,156 --> 00:23:04,196 Speaker 2: You know, growing up with your parents and being suddenly, 371 00:23:05,116 --> 00:23:08,076 Speaker 2: you know, taken away, and you know it can't be good. 372 00:23:10,636 --> 00:23:13,956 Speaker 2: But I guess, I guess the hardest part was moving 373 00:23:14,196 --> 00:23:17,316 Speaker 2: around house house Like It's not that I moved to 374 00:23:17,396 --> 00:23:20,076 Speaker 2: one foster home and then stay there for a year 375 00:23:20,076 --> 00:23:22,916 Speaker 2: and a half. I've I think four. 376 00:23:24,156 --> 00:23:26,996 Speaker 1: Homes and worse than that. For a time, he was 377 00:23:27,036 --> 00:23:30,516 Speaker 1: separated from his little sister. How long were you separated. 378 00:23:30,076 --> 00:23:34,116 Speaker 2: For the first foster home? Didn't that We weren't separated 379 00:23:34,116 --> 00:23:37,156 Speaker 2: for too long because we made a point to our 380 00:23:37,196 --> 00:23:40,876 Speaker 2: social workers to please, no reunite us. 381 00:23:41,196 --> 00:23:43,236 Speaker 1: He's making it sound like it wasn't that much of 382 00:23:43,236 --> 00:23:47,676 Speaker 1: a big deal. It was a big deal. Choke goes away, 383 00:23:48,156 --> 00:23:52,076 Speaker 1: their mother goes away. Now his little sister is taken away, 384 00:23:52,156 --> 00:23:54,636 Speaker 1: and the two of them start bouncing around the foster 385 00:23:54,716 --> 00:23:58,236 Speaker 1: homes of South LA and made a point to our 386 00:23:58,236 --> 00:24:01,716 Speaker 1: social workers to please reunite us. It was a war. 387 00:24:02,596 --> 00:24:04,196 Speaker 1: This is Eric again from later. 388 00:24:04,676 --> 00:24:08,636 Speaker 3: He didn't tell you how disastrous these first foster homes were. 389 00:24:09,116 --> 00:24:12,316 Speaker 1: When you say disastrous, what do you mean just idiotic? 390 00:24:12,796 --> 00:24:15,276 Speaker 3: I mean it wasn't like, oh, thank god, they're in 391 00:24:15,356 --> 00:24:18,116 Speaker 3: this wonderful home. First of all, they were one of 392 00:24:18,236 --> 00:24:20,196 Speaker 3: five foster kids in the You know what I mean, 393 00:24:20,276 --> 00:24:23,076 Speaker 3: This is not let us take you into our home. 394 00:24:23,476 --> 00:24:24,996 Speaker 3: This is how much are you going to pay us? 395 00:24:25,036 --> 00:24:30,756 Speaker 3: How many kids can we write? Meanwhile, the mother is 396 00:24:30,956 --> 00:24:35,596 Speaker 3: roaming around the planet like beetlejuice, and we have to, 397 00:24:36,396 --> 00:24:39,236 Speaker 3: you know, keep her at babe. It was just you know, it. 398 00:24:39,316 --> 00:24:40,756 Speaker 2: Was a mess. 399 00:24:41,596 --> 00:24:42,596 Speaker 1: Did you know your father? 400 00:24:43,276 --> 00:24:46,956 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I still have my father, and I we 401 00:24:48,356 --> 00:24:50,716 Speaker 2: he was he was absent for a large part of 402 00:24:50,756 --> 00:24:52,596 Speaker 2: my life. 403 00:24:52,796 --> 00:24:54,076 Speaker 1: And where is your mother now? 404 00:24:56,956 --> 00:25:03,356 Speaker 2: My mother? My mother is in prison. Oh yeah, yeah 405 00:25:03,436 --> 00:25:05,316 Speaker 2: in Texas. 406 00:25:05,836 --> 00:25:08,316 Speaker 1: I'll let you use your imagination again. As to why 407 00:25:09,396 --> 00:25:11,676 Speaker 1: it wasn't an easy thing for a kid, two kids 408 00:25:11,836 --> 00:25:15,276 Speaker 1: to deal with. Eric's colleague Alna, is sitting quietly in 409 00:25:15,276 --> 00:25:20,796 Speaker 1: the room. She tries to put things in perspective. Carlos's mom, Alena, says, 410 00:25:21,196 --> 00:25:23,996 Speaker 1: had a difficult time with losing control of her children. 411 00:25:24,676 --> 00:25:29,436 Speaker 1: That made it hard for Eric and Alena to stay involved. Finally, 412 00:25:29,516 --> 00:25:32,156 Speaker 1: the mother tells Eric and Alena, and this is the 413 00:25:32,196 --> 00:25:40,116 Speaker 1: phrase Alena uses to detach themselves. The kids vanish for 414 00:25:40,156 --> 00:25:43,116 Speaker 1: a year and a half, and neither Eric nor Alena 415 00:25:43,236 --> 00:25:53,876 Speaker 1: know whether they'll ever see them again. That's the difference 416 00:25:53,876 --> 00:25:57,156 Speaker 1: between being privileged and being poor in America. It's how 417 00:25:57,196 --> 00:26:00,996 Speaker 1: many chances you get if you're wealthy. All kinds of 418 00:26:01,036 --> 00:26:03,756 Speaker 1: things can happen and you'll be okay. You can drop 419 00:26:03,756 --> 00:26:06,036 Speaker 1: out of school for a year, you can get addicted 420 00:26:06,076 --> 00:26:09,356 Speaker 1: to painkillers, you can have a bad car, accident. No 421 00:26:09,396 --> 00:26:11,596 Speaker 1: one ever says of the upper middle class high school 422 00:26:11,636 --> 00:26:14,796 Speaker 1: kid whose parents get a terrible divorce, I wonder if 423 00:26:14,796 --> 00:26:18,396 Speaker 1: she'll ever go to college. She's going to college. Disruption 424 00:26:18,556 --> 00:26:21,556 Speaker 1: is not fatal to life chances. A friend of mine 425 00:26:21,756 --> 00:26:24,516 Speaker 1: was once stopped by cops speeding on the East River 426 00:26:24,596 --> 00:26:27,996 Speaker 1: Drive in Manhattan, drunk with a syringe on the dashboard. 427 00:26:28,436 --> 00:26:31,596 Speaker 1: And what happened. Nothing happened. He went on to have 428 00:26:31,596 --> 00:26:34,516 Speaker 1: the kind of brilliant career he deserved to have. That's 429 00:26:34,556 --> 00:26:41,596 Speaker 1: the point of privilege. It buys you second chances. But 430 00:26:41,676 --> 00:26:44,436 Speaker 1: if you're from Lenox, even if you're a kid with 431 00:26:44,516 --> 00:26:46,796 Speaker 1: all the talent in the world, you don't get the 432 00:26:46,836 --> 00:26:49,916 Speaker 1: same number of chances. That's why there are at least 433 00:26:49,996 --> 00:26:53,196 Speaker 1: thirty five thousand really smart, poor high school seniors every 434 00:26:53,236 --> 00:26:55,676 Speaker 1: year in his country, and so few of them are 435 00:26:55,676 --> 00:26:58,996 Speaker 1: making it to the kinds of colleges they deserve because 436 00:26:59,036 --> 00:27:08,636 Speaker 1: too many things get in the way. When I met 437 00:27:08,716 --> 00:27:11,196 Speaker 1: Eric again and a few days later, he told me 438 00:27:11,236 --> 00:27:14,716 Speaker 1: a second story. He said. It was about another Carlos. 439 00:27:14,956 --> 00:27:17,116 Speaker 1: As he put it, he said he got a call 440 00:27:17,156 --> 00:27:19,276 Speaker 1: from an elementary school principal in Lennox. 441 00:27:19,756 --> 00:27:22,116 Speaker 3: She says, I want you to come meet a bunch 442 00:27:22,156 --> 00:27:25,996 Speaker 3: of fourth graders that I think are outstanding. When I 443 00:27:26,036 --> 00:27:29,876 Speaker 3: got to the third boy, I said, so tell me 444 00:27:29,916 --> 00:27:30,636 Speaker 3: about yourself. 445 00:27:31,196 --> 00:27:34,236 Speaker 1: Eric asks about the little boy's father, Where is he? 446 00:27:34,636 --> 00:27:37,596 Speaker 1: It's the standard question he always starts with, because there 447 00:27:37,636 --> 00:27:40,076 Speaker 1: are so many absent fathers in that world that that 448 00:27:40,156 --> 00:27:42,436 Speaker 1: question narrows things down pretty quickly. 449 00:27:42,796 --> 00:27:47,516 Speaker 3: His answer was so peculiar. It gripped me so fast. 450 00:27:48,476 --> 00:27:51,276 Speaker 3: He looked at me and he said there was violence. 451 00:27:51,836 --> 00:27:54,076 Speaker 3: Those were the very words that came out of his mouth. 452 00:27:54,396 --> 00:27:57,556 Speaker 3: And the minute he said it, I wed, Oh my god, 453 00:27:58,516 --> 00:28:02,076 Speaker 3: I had more than a sneaking suspicion. This is the 454 00:28:02,276 --> 00:28:09,516 Speaker 3: boy who saw his virtually his entire family murdered by 455 00:28:09,996 --> 00:28:13,076 Speaker 3: a crazy neighbor with who got into a beef with 456 00:28:13,116 --> 00:28:18,876 Speaker 3: his father. He saw his father killed, his older brother killed. 457 00:28:19,076 --> 00:28:22,196 Speaker 3: Guy had a shotgun. He ran into the house, grabbed 458 00:28:22,236 --> 00:28:24,556 Speaker 3: his little sister. They hid under a bed, and the 459 00:28:24,556 --> 00:28:27,076 Speaker 3: guy burned the house down. He was hiding under the 460 00:28:27,076 --> 00:28:30,316 Speaker 3: bed while the house was on fire. His mother finally 461 00:28:30,356 --> 00:28:33,516 Speaker 3: came back. He ran outside to see his mother beaten up. 462 00:28:33,636 --> 00:28:36,916 Speaker 3: She was in the hospital for months after this, and 463 00:28:36,956 --> 00:28:39,596 Speaker 3: the police came and killed the shut gun. It was 464 00:28:39,676 --> 00:28:43,156 Speaker 3: so horrendous, and it didn't occur to me that this 465 00:28:43,356 --> 00:28:46,996 Speaker 3: was an analytics family. And I'm realized, I am now 466 00:28:47,036 --> 00:28:50,716 Speaker 3: talking to this boy because he is one of the 467 00:28:50,796 --> 00:28:53,156 Speaker 3: three outstanding boys in the class. 468 00:28:54,116 --> 00:28:54,996 Speaker 1: Wait, what was he like? 469 00:28:55,836 --> 00:29:00,916 Speaker 3: Fantastic, he was poised, he was articulate. When he said 470 00:29:00,956 --> 00:29:03,476 Speaker 3: there was violence, the needle moved one hundred and eighty. 471 00:29:03,516 --> 00:29:08,676 Speaker 3: It went from Wow, what an interesting, remarkable, articulate, confident 472 00:29:08,756 --> 00:29:11,716 Speaker 3: kid you are, What a fortunate kid you are? To 473 00:29:12,156 --> 00:29:16,316 Speaker 3: oh my god, I now think I know the reality 474 00:29:16,356 --> 00:29:16,596 Speaker 3: of you. 475 00:29:24,316 --> 00:29:26,596 Speaker 1: Even as an eight year old, this kid was smart 476 00:29:26,676 --> 00:29:29,556 Speaker 1: enough to know that meeting Eric was his big chance 477 00:29:30,196 --> 00:29:32,316 Speaker 1: and that his job was to put all the bad 478 00:29:32,316 --> 00:29:36,876 Speaker 1: stuff aside, to put it in a box. That's what 479 00:29:36,916 --> 00:29:39,076 Speaker 1: these kids are like the ones who make it out. 480 00:29:39,356 --> 00:29:41,676 Speaker 1: They learn from a very early age where the exits 481 00:29:41,716 --> 00:29:43,956 Speaker 1: are and they don't let anything get in their way. 482 00:29:44,516 --> 00:29:46,956 Speaker 1: You see your family getting massacred or your mother go 483 00:29:47,036 --> 00:29:51,196 Speaker 1: to prison, and you say, like Carlos did, I definitely 484 00:29:51,236 --> 00:29:54,356 Speaker 1: still tried at school. I didn't let it affect my 485 00:29:54,436 --> 00:30:01,716 Speaker 1: grades too much. So what happens to Carlos? He gets lucky, 486 00:30:02,676 --> 00:30:06,756 Speaker 1: lucky because the foster care, situation works itself out, he 487 00:30:06,836 --> 00:30:09,716 Speaker 1: forgets all the bad stuff that's happening, He takes care 488 00:30:09,716 --> 00:30:13,636 Speaker 1: of his sister, He re establishes contact with Eric and Elena, 489 00:30:13,916 --> 00:30:17,516 Speaker 1: and they find him another private school, not joke, not 490 00:30:17,596 --> 00:30:23,116 Speaker 1: a boarding school, something closer to home. But whatever you do, 491 00:30:23,116 --> 00:30:28,076 Speaker 1: don't call this story inspirational, because it's not. It's depressing 492 00:30:28,796 --> 00:30:30,676 Speaker 1: because it says that if you live in Lennox and 493 00:30:30,756 --> 00:30:33,436 Speaker 1: things go awry, you have to have an Eric and 494 00:30:33,476 --> 00:30:36,436 Speaker 1: an Alena in your corner and be as tough and 495 00:30:36,556 --> 00:30:39,796 Speaker 1: single minded and one in a million as Carlos is. 496 00:30:39,796 --> 00:30:43,596 Speaker 1: To make it out, that's why the capitalization of talent 497 00:30:43,676 --> 00:30:47,956 Speaker 1: is such an issue, because these are really long odds. 498 00:30:53,116 --> 00:30:56,596 Speaker 1: Back with Carlos and his sister at Eric Eisner's house, 499 00:30:57,356 --> 00:31:00,636 Speaker 1: Eric turns to Carlos and asks, do you remember feeling 500 00:31:00,876 --> 00:31:04,876 Speaker 1: pessimistic for the first time you were? Were you ever pessimistic? 501 00:31:08,276 --> 00:31:15,316 Speaker 2: I wasn't really pessimistic, as yeah, overwhelmed it is a 502 00:31:15,356 --> 00:31:19,796 Speaker 2: great word. I guess it's just a lot happening at 503 00:31:19,836 --> 00:31:22,916 Speaker 2: the time, and I was, and then I was back 504 00:31:22,956 --> 00:31:25,556 Speaker 2: in the public school. You know, it was like it 505 00:31:25,636 --> 00:31:28,076 Speaker 2: was like I started right back, you know, right from 506 00:31:28,076 --> 00:31:28,596 Speaker 2: square one. 507 00:31:29,196 --> 00:31:33,076 Speaker 1: Eric turns to Carlos's sister and asks whether she ever 508 00:31:33,196 --> 00:31:37,036 Speaker 1: worried that her brother had had enough? What would you 509 00:31:37,156 --> 00:31:38,276 Speaker 1: do if he gave up? 510 00:31:38,436 --> 00:31:40,436 Speaker 3: You remember a time when you looked at him and 511 00:31:40,956 --> 00:31:43,916 Speaker 3: were concerned that he was card What would you do 512 00:31:43,916 --> 00:31:44,596 Speaker 3: if you give up? 513 00:31:46,476 --> 00:31:51,356 Speaker 1: Oh, he was a very optimistic person. He was a 514 00:31:51,516 --> 00:31:55,556 Speaker 1: very optimistic person, she says. I feel like he was 515 00:31:55,596 --> 00:31:57,516 Speaker 1: strong for the both of us. A lot of the times. 516 00:32:00,636 --> 00:32:04,356 Speaker 1: Carlos is looking straight ahead as she's speaking, like he 517 00:32:04,396 --> 00:32:08,676 Speaker 1: doesn't want to cry. Then she says it again, I 518 00:32:08,756 --> 00:32:09,476 Speaker 1: said thanks. 519 00:32:10,436 --> 00:32:11,476 Speaker 2: I never thought of him. 520 00:32:11,436 --> 00:32:17,236 Speaker 1: As honestly, I never thought of him as someone who 521 00:32:17,276 --> 00:32:17,796 Speaker 1: gives up. 522 00:32:19,636 --> 00:32:20,916 Speaker 2: I was never worried about it. 523 00:32:21,916 --> 00:32:53,636 Speaker 1: She was never worried about it. You've been listening to 524 00:32:53,716 --> 00:32:57,356 Speaker 1: Revisionist History. If you like what you've heard, do us 525 00:32:57,356 --> 00:33:00,916 Speaker 1: a favor and rate us on iTunes it helps. You 526 00:33:00,916 --> 00:33:04,076 Speaker 1: can get more information about this and other episodes at 527 00:33:04,156 --> 00:33:09,556 Speaker 1: Revisionististory dot com or on your favorite podcast app. Our 528 00:33:09,596 --> 00:33:13,956 Speaker 1: show is produced by me LaBelle, Roxanne Scott, and Jacob Smith. 529 00:33:14,756 --> 00:33:18,436 Speaker 1: Our editor is Julia Barton. Music is composed by Luis 530 00:33:18,476 --> 00:33:23,036 Speaker 1: Quira and Taka Yasuzawa Flon Williams is our engineer and 531 00:33:23,116 --> 00:33:29,276 Speaker 1: our fact checker is Michelle Sarraka Penalty management team Laura Mayer, 532 00:33:29,916 --> 00:33:34,316 Speaker 1: Andy Bauers and Jacob Weisberg. I'm Malcolm Gladwell.