WEBVTT - Stripe's John Collison on How Agentic Commerce Will Reshape the Internet 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:14.000 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:21.680 Hello and welcome to another episode of the Odd Lots Podcast. 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:24.080 I'm Joe Wasn't though, and I'm Tracy Alloway. 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:27.400 So Tracy, another episode where I can mention that I've 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:30.680 been vib no. But you know, here's something that I 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:32.240 may have mentioned before. 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:34.040 I'm sure you have, Joe, but. 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:36.000 I'm not one hundred percent sure. Okay, I think I've 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:37.920 mentioned it. It's actually very easy. You just come up 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:39.519 with an idea and you type it in English and 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:42.920 then it's there. You know, the hardest part registering a 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:47.440 domain game. Yeah, so everything else is so smooth, right, 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:50.280 You just type it in English and then you're like, 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:52.559 have your little app or whatever, and then it's like, oh, 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:53.840 I want to put this somewhere on the web. But 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:56.120 then you go to like a domain name registrar. I 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:58.640 had been using go Daddy for a long time, and 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:00.760 then it's like, let's hit this feel for this field 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:02.840 and this field for this field, and toggle this and 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:05.320 this worker this page is in the A field and 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:08.120 the app field of the B field, and I swear 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:12.040 that's like, it's like so maddening. I just hated it 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:14.040 so much. It's so annoying. It is the hardest part 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:14.800 of the whole aspect. 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:18.120 I have terrible memories as well about dealing with blue 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:20.479 host and things like that. Is this the first time 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:21.600 you've ever set up a domain? 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:22.800 No, there's the thing. 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:24.000 This is the other thing. 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:26.880 Yeah, I've done it before, Like I've done it before, 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:28.600 and it's still incredibly annoying. 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.319 Progress comes slow to domain registration. 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:34.600 I mean, there's probably good reason for it to be complicated. 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:36.960 You don't want it to switch in the wrong direction. Anyway, 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:40.720 I was very excited a couple of weeks ago. There's 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:43.200 actually well, the two of us were in Madrid. The 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:46.280 company Stripe, the payments company, announced that there was going 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:48.880 to be some agreement with cloud Flair, which does a 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:50.880 lot of web hostings, where you could just have the 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:53.400 agent buy a domain name for you, and so you 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:54.840 think of one and you just type it in buy 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:57.440 this domain name and host it there. And I immediately like, 0:01:57.480 --> 0:01:59.600 oh my god. I wrote about it the newsletter. It's like, 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:01.600 this should be so, this would have been so nice 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:02.040 a month a. 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:04.360 Yet another thing that you will never have to do again, 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:08.320 exactly let another So, I mean I saw the Stripe 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:10.360 news and it generated a lot of buzz. And it 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:13.560 all comes under the umbrella, I guess, of agentic commerce. 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:15.680 So this idea that you can have agents that are 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:19.680 actually directly transacting on your behalf with other agents or 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:22.840 other websites. And I have to say, as someone who 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:26.320 shops online a lot, this is the first time I 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:28.919 feel disintermediated by AIM. 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:34.000 I'm actually particularly excited about this episode because I'm very 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:38.920 curious basically what you specifically will ask as someone as. 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:40.480 A person a professional shopper. 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:44.600 I was going to say, as a person of taste. 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:47.840 As a person of taste, I've seen you say scrolling 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:52.160 very nice paper like websites fuck wallpapers and things like that, 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:55.680 and I'm curious what does it mean for that if 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:58.680 your AI bought two years from now knows you so well. 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:01.160 It's like, Tracy, I, I thought you needed this new 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:03.480 wallpaper because you're doing this, I just went ahead and 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:05.400 order it to you to be delivered tomorrow. 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:06.800 This changes the world. 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:11.320 It brings up so many interesting questions about discoverability and taste, 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:14.840 as you mentioned, and also just the nature of the Internet, 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:17.600 because when I think about the Internet, like a lot 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:20.360 of other things, it's basically built to sell you things, 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:24.520 whether that's products or information content, and we know that 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:27.200 it also runs on those sales in the sense that 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:30.440 a lot of the Internet is driven by advertising, which 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:33.359 is related to traffic. Obviously, we actually did that episode 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:36.360 way back about how the Internet runs on millions se 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:42.080 ad auctions. That's and so this topic of agentic commerce 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:45.360 and the payment system, obviously it's of interest to anyone 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:48.200 who shops and does stuff online, but it's also really 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:51.320 relevant to the actual evolution of the Internet. 0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:53.720 Couldn't agree more and I would go further and say 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:57.680 it's really important for like culture itself, advertising creation of culture. 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:00.440 Adds are influential. Ads do all this stuff. What if 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:02.920 there's a changing and advertise it all these kind of stuff. Anyway, 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:06.280 let's stop hearing from ourselves. We really do have the 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:08.520 perfect guest, someone we've wanted to talk to for a 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:10.640 long time, someone who's right in the thick of it 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:13.200 and all this stuff with agentic commerce and payments. We're 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:15.440 going to be speaking with John Collison, the president and 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:18.440 co founder of Stripe. So, John, thank you so much 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:21.760 for coming on odd Lots great to be here. I'm 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:26.120 very excited. Yeah, buzzwords et cetera. What is quote agentic 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:27.280 commerce unquote. 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:30.520 Yeah, so there's a bit of a definitional question, but 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:34.479 broadly it is AI buying something for you. Okay, And 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:38.560 we think about this in two categories. One is on 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:40.520 the consumer side of things. This is where you were 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:43.320 a skeptical whether Tracy will ever be an adopter, where 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:46.440 you research something in Chatchy t or claud or what 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:48.560 have you, and then go buy us there or have 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:50.960 it buy it for you. But then the second is 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:53.800 your cloud Flare example, and so it's B to B 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:57.200 or developer led agentic commerce where you're just trying to 0:04:57.200 --> 0:05:00.599 have cloud code do something for you. And as parts 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:02.280 of this needs to buy resources, and we can talk 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:03.560 about that because are quite different. 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:06.520 Yeah, Tracy, and we'll get to this. But the resources 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:08.760 is another thing I've whined about, which is that when 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:10.760 you do an API key, you're like, have an idea 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:12.039 and you're like, oh, you have to go to the 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:16.679 web enter credit card number. That's really annoying, et cetera. 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:18.919 But we'll get into that. But that is another big 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:21.239 element of it that I feel like is getting closer 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:21.880 to being solved. 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:24.640 Okay, Well, on this credit card point, I mean, the 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:29.720 history of online payments is basically a continuous elimination of 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:31.960 the friction, right and going from I have to enter 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:34.320 my credit card details to I have to log into 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:37.239 PayPal too. Now I can just basically click a button, 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:42.040 whether it's Apple pay or something else. Is agentic commerce? 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:46.000 Is this just another leg of the frictionless process or 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:49.400 is something fundamental in your view changing here? 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:55.080 Both? So part of agentic commerce is just reducing the friction. 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:58.200 And you're right that the general direction of travel over time, 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:00.680 you're back to the introduction of credit cards, when the 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:05.080 earliest adopters of computer networks, and then the originally commerce 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:06.960 and now like you're saying, well, it's like Apple paying, 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:08.960 Google pay, and we have a product call link and 0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:12.320 things like that. So there's generally been this elimination of friction. 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:16.080 And our view is that at a very minimum, we're 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:18.159 going to see and Tracy, I think this is where 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:21.119 you can maybe get behind us. Is leave aside any 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:26.479 agent decision making that's happening just the final step of 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:29.320 buying something. You know, you might have researched a product 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:31.599 in an AI app before, where you're going back and forth. 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:33.280 I was trying to buy a bike case recently to 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:35.679 travel with my bike, and you're asking all these questions 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:37.480 hard versus soft and do you need to take off 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:39.280 the handlebars? And what's the right one? And it's finding 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:41.440 all these cool little niche brands. I think it's actually 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:44.240 quite good for smaller merchants, by the way, because you 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:46.440 have the ability for them to be discovered that they 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:49.279 mightn't have had otherwise. But anyway, when you find the 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:52.200 product at the very end, do you really then want 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:54.160 to go and be filling out all these web form 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:56.279 fields and things like that, or do you want to 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:58.719 just say, yeah, that sounds good, buy it for me 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:02.280 in this size And our best is that people will 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:04.400 want the lower friction option. I think in the history 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:07.200 of technology, the lower friction option tends to win out, 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:10.280 and so we think that clearly will happen and is 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:13.320 happening to some degree already. It's just the agent filling 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:15.800 out the forums for you. I think where you get 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:19.640 this interesting question is and when people hear a genta commerce, 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:22.720 I think their mind jumps to the agent actually having 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:25.600 some autonomy and some decision making for you. I think 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:30.760 they're The problem is people somehow jump to the examples. 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:33.280 Anyone who talks about this from them, they pick terrible examples. 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:35.800 They're like, oh, the agent will book you know, all 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:38.240 the activities on your vacation for you. It's like people 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:40.920 think about they daydream about their vacation. 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:44.960 All yeah, part researching and buddy is the fun part. 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:48.160 That's the fun part. Or similarly with women's fashion, it's 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:51.040 like the whole point is the scrolling, not just the buying. 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:55.160 And so people pick these, you know, super enjoy Like 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:57.360 it's the robots taking the jobs and when people want 0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:00.240 to keep those scrolling jobs. And so when you think 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:05.200 about robots having autonomy, I would instead profer some examples 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:07.880 where you really don't need to be You give the 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:11.200 AI a recipe and say buy the things that we 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:13.920 need to make this tonight, and yeah, the AI can 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:16.320 probably guess that you have salt and you have garlic 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.480 at home, but you need the grand pork. Or again 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:22.640 then migrating to the B to B example, no one 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:25.160 needs to configure yes another domain and go through all 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:28.040 those forms. If claud codes can work with cloud flare 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:29.880 to buy the domain for you and set it up, 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:32.240 I think Joe will be much happier. I just feel 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:34.000 like he's missed out on a valuable life experience. 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:36.400 I want to talk more about the B to B stuff, 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:39.200 but let's for a moment stick around on the B 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:42.000 two C element, because I think there are gradations of this, 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:45.160 so one is just another elimination of the friction layer. 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:49.040 At the far end of the spectrum, conceivably there will 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:52.760 be things where the AI truly does anticipatory buy you 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:55.640 things that you didn't know you need, etc. Then there 0:08:55.720 --> 0:08:59.360 might be like some middle I saw this screenshow recently 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:02.559 and I couldn't find it before the episode. Someone tweeted it. 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:05.960 But some retailer I think was a shoe retailer had 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:08.040 put a bunch of shoes on their website, but instead 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:11.160 of like putting any brand names on the shoe, like 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:13.160 we would say like a Nike Pegasus or a Nike 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:18.280 Air Jordan, all of the shoes were like hiking boot 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:20.800 that's good for semi serious hiker. 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:22.319 Do you see this. 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:26.320 Currently like where we are on the augentic commerce trajectory, 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:29.720 do you see this currently where there's already a change 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:34.840 in how retailers are presenting or displaying or promoting their 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:38.320 wares such that they're more at tuned for what the 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:41.559 chatbot would identify or the AI would identify as cool 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:45.120 versus what a human influenced by brands would pick up 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:45.520 is cool. 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:50.319 Yes and no. I mean there's definitely changes. I think 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:52.959 some of the stuff that's most notable is often not 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:54.880 the most relevant. It's a little bit It sounds like 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:56.520 what you're describing is a little bit like the Thai 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.600 restaurant calls typhood near too, you know, do best in 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:03.600 the se But I think what we see as kind 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:05.720 of maybe a more interesting direction of travel is again 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:09.079 what's happening already some amount of the form fields being 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:10.680 filled out for you and kind of the friction reduction 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:13.520 and a huge amount of again I presume you guys 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:16.840 have both done this is at research in AI apps, 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:18.440 And you know, the way I would frame that is 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:22.040 just keyword search is ridiculous. It's ridiculous that we got 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:24.959 to the year twenty twenty six relying on keyword search, 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.280 where that makes sense for buying a book or a DVD, 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:31.240 where you know the title of the book or a 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:33.320 DVD that you're trying to buy. But that's about the 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:35.360 limit of keyword search. And so the fact that anyone 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:38.840 was trying to buy furniture or clothes or anything like that, 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:41.599 and there was this text box at the top of 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:43.520 the website where you put in your keywords. It's like, 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:45.439 that's just that's not how anyone shops in the real word, 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:48.600 things like that. And so we're seeing this AI powered 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:52.240 research where people can explore product space and start to 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:57.920 give constraints and you have this textual search interface, but 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:00.640 you end up with kind of much higher search where 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:02.439 it's like, Okay, I have a spot in this room 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:04.680 where I'm looking for a piece of furniture that's this 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:07.800 why is max and this high because I need to 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:09.680 fit it in there. That's the kind of thing that's 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:11.719 just much better suited to the imodaliti. So you see 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:13.959 different kinds of product research possible. And like we said, 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:18.839 it's very helpful to smaller brands because people aren't necessarily 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:22.000 stuck behind the traditional aggregators anymore. They can break out. 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:25.319 And again I have found in my little research projects 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:28.439 that I've done, finding how you often get these small 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.560 brands surfaced that you mightn't have heard of before. And 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:34.360 so we think it's actually probably quite good for the dynamism. 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:36.959 Well let me ask Joe's question in a slightly different way, 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:39.640 which is, if we assume that in the future, if 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:44.080 I'm a business selling something online. Previously I was selling 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:47.200 to humans more or less, like maybe I'd optimize for 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:49.560 Google search results or whatever, but like, mostly I'm trying 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:52.240 to appeal to humans, and now I'm trying to appeal 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:58.080 more to agents. What does optimizing for agents actually look like? 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:03.920 Part of it is similar to traditional SEO, right, so 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:06.679 you want to be legible to those agents, you want 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:10.520 to be discovered by them. But part of what, at 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:14.480 least I've seen is that the ais have pretty good taste. Joe, 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:16.320 I don't know if you've found this in your vibe coding. 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:18.319 By the way, Joe, I'm reminded of its sort of 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:19.880 like the old joke, how do you know if someone 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:25.600 vibe codes they'll tell you about it exactly but guilt, 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:28.920 And I'm guessing you found that theies are very tasteful 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:34.920 at picking libraries and picking specific subcomponents to use. And similarly, 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:37.600 in our kind of early experience of the agenta commerce, 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:41.080 they're quite tasteful in finding tools that suit the job 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:43.679 pretty well. And so I think you may get this 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:47.680 more efficient market phenomenon, where at least in picking coding 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:50.400 libraries or something like that, the ais are have quite 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:52.959 like I find when I do stuff, they're discovering libraries 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:54.880 that are perfect for the job that I hadn't even 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:57.040 heard of, or something like that. I think you're starting 0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:59.600 to see the same phenomenon with products, where again I've 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:01.040 had the experience of you know, I was trying to 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:02.920 find a travel adapter and I found it from this 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:05.640 tiny company. This I had never heard of, was doing 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:07.320 exactly what I want to where it's like an integrated 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:10.079 travel adopter in power break. It's really good and I 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:12.079 would never have come across that company otherwise. 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:16.000 This is incredibly important because, as I mentioned the beginning, 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:21.520 advertising creates culture. It's part of culture, especially iconic advertising. 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:24.319 And maybe it'll be a little while before the Nikes 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:26.400 of the world, they're the Nikes and Apples of the world. 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:28.320 They're going to be advertising for a long time. But 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:32.000 do you see this eventually as sort of like one 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:34.559 of the things I think that the Internet appreciates about 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:37.440 Stripe as a company is you and your brother's commitment 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:41.320 to interesting discussions of economics and so forth, and you 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.520 talk about econ history. There are great debates about whether 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:48.960 spending is a huge deadweight loss on the economy or 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:51.960 whether it's something positive, et cetera. And I'm curious, could 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:56.120 you see a sort of post advertising future, you know, 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:58.000 at some point on the horizon. 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:03.520 No, I think we're quite skeptical of that for two reasons. 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:07.840 One again, with agentic commerce, we don't think the human 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:10.440 goes away and the human in the loop goes away. 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:12.640 And there's a huge amount of agentic commerce that can 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:16.280 happen like we're describing, where you still have the human 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:19.120 as the end decider. And so it will likely to 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:21.160 be the case that if you are searching for something, 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:23.720 if you have on a new microphone for the adlot's studio, 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:26.440 you might ask it to go research and it'll present 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.400 three or four different options with different trade offs. There's 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:31.160 no right microphone that is going to be kind of 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:34.360 castrated on anythings like that. And then ultimately you will 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:36.760 make a call and it'll go buy it for you. 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:40.880 And when you make that call, some brand preference you have, 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.880 Oh sure, I just know that they're like the ones 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:46.480 with the really good sound quality. Not clear why you 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:49.040 have that association. Maybe there some advertising in there somewhere, 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:51.560 But so we think brand preference and as part of 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:54.880 that advertising will clearly stick around. Because again it's definitely 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:56.960 not going to be the case that agentic commerce means 0:14:57.000 --> 0:15:00.360 no humans make buying decisions. That's absolutely not case. But 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:02.000 again this may be a good example. You want to 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:04.120 buy new microphones for the studio, you do a lot 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:06.440 of AI research, you don't have a human decide, and 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:08.320 then you do a lot of AI execution, and so 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:11.040 it's a on both sides, and then human decision making 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:14.120 in the middle. Brand affinity really matters in that world. 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:17.360 The other thing, of course, is commerce can be directed 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:20.400 or undirected. Where in the directed side, like I was saying, 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:21.760 trying to buy a bike, case it's like this is 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:22.880 a thing that I know I need to go do. 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:25.200 I'm going to go do some research. Previously, you know, 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:28.080 Google ad might have been irrelevant to me, whereas now 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:31.560 it's what appears in the AI search results. Obviously that 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:35.520 does remove some advertising, but for now at least, maybe 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:37.240 some of the AI as at least choose to bring 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:39.720 back some advertising in those cases. But then a lot 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:42.160 of shopping is undirected where you're scrolling Instagram, and the 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:44.720 joke goes that these days on Instagram, the ads are 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:47.640 better than the organic content because they've gotten so good 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:49.800 with the targeting and there's nice, reassuring things that you 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:53.200 might want to buy, and there that is advertising, and 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:55.840 people are going to stay scrolling social apps and finding 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:57.640 cool products they want to buy. So I wouldn't be 0:15:57.680 --> 0:15:58.960 short advertising in this world. 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:18.320 You mentioned machine readability earlier. Talk to us about the 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:21.960 actual process of converting your catalog into something that an 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:25.920 agent can actually read, and how standardized that is at 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:28.600 the moment, and how standardized do you expect it to 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:30.520 be in the future. And then also, like, if you're 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:36.600 standardizing for machine readability, I feel like it's difficult to 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:40.640 capture some of what might make a product interesting. It's 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.640 difficult to like code the actual vibes of a product. 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:48.040 Even with lms. I just find there's something difficult to capture. 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:50.120 So talk to us about how you make you make 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:53.480 it so that agents fully understand what is available to them. 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:56.800 Yeah, so there's two levels here. The first is just 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:01.120 being known in the same way that you'd be known 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:04.480 to humans. Because obviously all the lms have read the 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:08.080 whole Internet. That's what they're trained on, and they can 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:11.560 do web searches. And so if you have good product 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:14.800 pages that are informative and lay out the details of 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.320 what the product does. If you have reviews, you know, 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:19.719 if there's like a bunch of wirecutter reviews things like that, 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:22.399 you've probably seen this in research searches where you know, 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:24.439 the AI app will say, you know, people love this 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:26.840 product and they say X, y Z, but they've read 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:29.160 the whole internet, and so being known, you know, I'm 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:31.560 a big deal on the internet helps with the AI 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:33.880 apps as it does for humans. That's kind of step one. 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:36.840 Step two, and where a stripe gets more involved is 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:39.760 you need a lot of the mechanical wiring up so 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:42.920 that the ais can do stuff that are more programmatic. 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:44.960 And this is where our agentic commerce suites that we 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:46.560 you know, had an announcement about, and this is what 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:49.560 we're working on with Google and Microsoft and Meta and 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:52.040 you know open ai and all those folks to actually 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:53.800 do some of the commerce wiring up. And there, I'd 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:58.160 say it's two things. One is you need a machine 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:03.040 compatible way to get the very latest information about the 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:06.159 product details. So it's one thing for the AI to 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:09.200 have in its training run maybe a year ago, read 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:11.600 the whole internet and know that that this product is good. 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:13.520 You need to be able to tell the AI is 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:17.120 it still on sale, whats skews are in stock, which 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:19.800 sizes we have right now, and things like that, and 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.080 so that kind of up to date, being able to 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:25.199 make real time calls to the seller so that the 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:28.640 AI has fresh, correct information that it can present. That's 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:31.199 thing one, and then thing two is wiring up the 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:34.320 agentic checkout so the AI can actually buy it. And 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:36.720 here you get into a bunch of boring like payments details. 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:40.239 But for example, you you're not allowed you don't want 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:42.600 to be you're not allowed to describe that's true. 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:50.720 Detail is boring. So start yeah, keep going. 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:54.240 Start Okay. So then for actually kind of handling a 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:58.840 three way transaction where there's you in chat GBT buying 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:01.840 a product from this something like that, we're facilitating that 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:03.879 transaction and there you want to be. You don't have 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:05.720 to be re entering your payment details on each website. 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:07.119 At the same time, you don't want to be flinging 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:10.280 your payment details around across different websites. And so we 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:12.440 built all the wiring up and also don't forget, a 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:15.040 lot of websites have Historically bots used to be a 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:17.520 bad thing. They used to discriminating spots. They would have 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:20.680 bought protections and things like that, whereas now it's like, okay, no, 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:22.560 we actually want agents to be able to do this, 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:25.520 and so you're unwinding some of the bot protections and 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:27.840 having a little tsa pre for the bots that we 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:31.360 work with, a way to kind of securely transfer one 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:33.720 time use payment credential and things like this. There's a 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.320 lot of wiring up beneath the c businesses have to do. 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:39.560 This is actually maybe like a good spot to slightly 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:43.560 seg over into the B to B element of agentic commerce, 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:46.440 because this gets to another thing that I think about, 0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:48.280