1 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: Last time on ear witness. 2 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:17,799 Speaker 2: You are in a position now to be one of 3 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 2: two things. 4 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:22,600 Speaker 3: Okay, you can either be a witness or you can 5 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 3: be a defendant. R. 6 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 4: Dregus was in his wheelchair sitting there, and he looked 7 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 4: at me and he said, listen, I'm not gonna lie 8 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 4: for anybody. I would happy to give to Forrest up 9 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 4: in a heartbeat, except it would be a lie, and 10 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 4: I'm not gonna lie. I said, all right, well, they're 11 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 4: going to wheel you to jail and they're gonna charge 12 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 4: you with capital murder, which is definitely offense. And he goes, 13 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 4: I wasn't there, tell him to take me to jail, 14 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 4: and they did. 15 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 5: Charged with capital murder of a law enforcement officer. Our 16 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 5: twenty two year old toward Forrest Johnson, twenty one year 17 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 5: old Our drag Us Ford, twenty three year old oh 18 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 5: Min Berry, and twenty one year old Quinn tes Wilson. 19 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 5: They are held without bond. 20 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 3: Evidence wise, well, we had visually no evidence. We had 21 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 3: the word of a fifteen year old who told lies, 22 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 3: a lot of. 23 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 6: Lies, Alie outline a FLA. 24 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 3: We had this table empty, wasn't nothing on it, and 25 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 3: we were still trying to try the case, and we 26 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 3: were like, man, what we gonna do. 27 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 2: I'm gonna win this. 28 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: It's nineteen ninety seven, two years after Deputy Bill Hardy 29 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: was killed to Forrest Johnson and Ardregis Ford are headed 30 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:03,559 Speaker 1: to trial for the murder, and so far, the only 31 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: evidence the state has presented connecting them to the crime 32 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: is the changing story of Yolanda Chambers. But there was 33 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: something else, something detectives had known about for two years, 34 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: something they kept quiet until now. 35 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,239 Speaker 7: This is sorry to Tom saw for Jeffson County Sheriff's 36 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 7: firmat President of the Room, or sorry to Tony Richson 37 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 7: and missus Violet Ellison and her daughter, Katrina Ellison. 38 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: Violet Ellison, a fifty three year old black woman, and 39 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: her sixteen year old daughter Katrina, met with detectives Tony 40 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: Richardson and Tom Salter at the Sheriff's office. Violet Ellison, 41 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: who knew Deputy Hardy, came forward a few weeks after 42 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: Hardy's murder. She called investigators seven days after the governor 43 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: announced an additional ten t one thousand dollars for information, 44 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: bringing the total reward offered in the case to twenty 45 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: thousand dollars. Her recorded interview with detectives is less than 46 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: seven minutes long. 47 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 7: Mis Ellison, would you tell us about the information that 48 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 7: you have for us? 49 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 8: You got a name Fred, I'm not sure of his 50 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 8: last name. 51 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:24,679 Speaker 2: Call my daughter. 52 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 9: Katrina Ellison home. 53 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: Violet Ellison says some guys in the jail were asking 54 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: Katrina to make three way calls for them so they'd 55 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: only have to pay for the original call to Katrina. 56 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: They didn't want to keep feeding quarters into the payphone. 57 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: One of those guys was named Fred, and he. 58 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 2: Asked my daughter to use her three way to call for. 59 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 10: His homeboy, and he named the fellow's name is Tamars Johnson. 60 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: Violet Ellison says her daughter dialed the number of a 61 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: girl named Daisy to create a three way call. In 62 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: the jail, Fred handed the phone to Forest so that 63 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: he could talk to Daisy back in the Ellison house. 64 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: Once Katrina heard the three way call go through, she 65 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: put the phone down and walked away, but her mom, 66 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,840 Speaker 1: Violet Ellison, picked it up and listened in. 67 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 2: He said that on the night of the. 68 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:26,359 Speaker 4: Ancident. 69 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: Violet Ellison tells detectives that she heard to Forest Johnson 70 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: telling Daisy what happened the night of Deputy Bill Hardy's murder. 71 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: I've listened to this recording over a dozen times and 72 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: it's not easy to follow, but in summary, Violet says 73 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 1: that to Forest described following a man. They planned to 74 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 1: rob a man. 75 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 11: And they had been following this man. 76 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: This man had a girl with him, and the girl 77 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: had a gun gone a shot was fired. 78 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 9: It was one shot that was fired. 79 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: And Deputy Hardy heard the commotion and came out to investigate. 80 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 7: Investigate, and that's when. 81 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 10: Tavars Johnson shot one time and he named another guy, 82 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 10: which was. 83 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 9: Quin to your tas both. 84 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: Of them shot, She says she overheard to Forrest Johnson 85 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: say that he and quint Has Wilson each fired one 86 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: shot at Deputy Hardy. At this point, quint Has Wilson 87 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 1: was also in jail, charged with Hardy's murder. The story 88 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: Violet Ellison tells police is disjointed. There are a lot 89 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: of details that are similar to the facts about the 90 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: case that were reported in the news, but others that 91 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 1: don't fit the evidence at the crime scene, and after 92 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: less than seven minutes, detectives say they have no further 93 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: questions for Violet Ellison and her daughter. 94 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 7: That makes a lot of sense. 95 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 2: Do you think they say that? 96 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:15,679 Speaker 10: Okay? 97 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: Two years after Violet Ellison first comes to police, the 98 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 1: state is preparing to put Ardregis Ford and to Forrest 99 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: Johnson on trial. But Yolanda Chambers is falling apart. She's 100 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 1: recanted her testimony under oath, and she doesn't always show 101 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: up to court when she's supposed to be there. It's then, 102 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: in their time of need two years later, that detectives 103 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: suddenly remember Violet Ellison's statements. 104 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 3: BALI that was k marking that door. You stand up 105 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 3: on his dail and say what she said? We got 106 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 3: a full taber. Now we got all the evidence we need. Well, 107 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 3: not that we need, we'd like to have a lot more, 108 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 3: but we got evidence. 109 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: Violet Ellison would become the state's star witness and the 110 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: trial against Forrest Johnson, and her ear witness testimony would 111 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: be the key evidence linking him to Deputy Hardy's murder. 112 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: But there wouldn't be just one trial for the murder 113 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: of Deputy Hardy, or two or even three. The state 114 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: will pursue four capital murder trials, and at each of 115 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: these four trials, the state will present separate mutually exclusive 116 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: theories about who pulled the trigger and fired the fatal shots. 117 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: I'm Beth Shelburne. This is ear witness, Chapter five. Anybody 118 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: will do If Tony Richardson was initially enthusiastic about Violet 119 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: Ellison's revelations, I can't tell by the investigative file. He 120 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: wrote a report about the meeting he had with her. 121 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: It's just seven sentences long, concluding the conversation concerned the crime. 122 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: That's it. Detectives and prosecutors do not publicly mention Violet 123 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: Ellison or her claims for the next two years. It's 124 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 1: like they just forgot about her. The most glaring example 125 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: of this, Detective Richardson testifies at a grand jury hearing 126 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: five months after his conversation with Violet Ellison. He says 127 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: under oath that all four men charged with capital murder 128 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: were in the back parking lot of the Crown Sterling 129 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: Suites when Hardy was killed, but he says Omar Berry 130 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: and ardregis Ford were the shooters. This story is based 131 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: on one of his conversations with Yolanda Chambers, and Detective 132 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: Richardson tells the grand jury there is no doubt that 133 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: Yolanda Chambers is telling us the truth. There is no 134 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 1: mention of Violet Ellison and tel To Forest is on trial, 135 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: but the state puts ardregas Ford on trial. 136 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 11: First, my grandmother spent everything she had, everything that a 137 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 11: poor woman had. She spent our money to defend him, 138 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 11: you know, to get him the best. 139 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 2: Representation she could. 140 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 1: Ardregas's cousin, Nicole Blunt Kerksey, comes to my house to 141 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: talk to me about the case. She's wearing a patterned 142 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: dress and cowboy boots. Her hair is pulled back into 143 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: a high bun. For many years, she grew up in 144 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: the same house as ar Dregas. Their mothers are sisters. 145 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 8: It was a lot of money for a poor family. 146 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 8: It really was a lot of My grandmother had a 147 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 8: lot of money saved back then. Even poor people like 148 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 8: she didn't spend everything she had. She always put money back. 149 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 8: She worked for a Union Envelope, which was like a 150 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 8: factory over in Press City for years, and then she 151 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 8: used to wash clothes and clean houses for people, and 152 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 8: so she just tucked a lot of that money, she 153 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 8: just tucked it away, and she exhausted just about everything 154 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 8: to try to get him the representation that he needed 155 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 8: for that trial other than my grandmother's money. I mean, 156 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 8: we had barbecues and just you know, things to raise 157 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,319 Speaker 8: money so that we could pay the attorney. 158 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: Ardregas's mom, Joyce, tells me the same thing. So you 159 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: had to raise some of the money, some of it. Yeah, 160 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: do you remember how much you ended up paying? 161 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 2: Looked like, I don't know, might have been over for 162 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 2: the thousand or something. 163 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: Mother, it's a lot of money. 164 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 2: It was. 165 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: Ar Dregas's family hires Richard Jaffe, a renowned defense attorney 166 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: who would represent it dozens of people facing the death 167 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: penalty to Forrest. Johnson's cousin, Antonio Green remembers trying to 168 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: figure out what his family could do to get to 169 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:13,719 Speaker 1: Forrest the best legal defense available. 170 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 2: One of the prominent attorneys during that time. 171 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 12: Me and my uncle went and talked to him about 172 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 12: taking this case for the forest during that time, and 173 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,319 Speaker 12: he told us it's right, that's in his office. He said, 174 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 12: bring him a ten thousand dollars retainer and he'll bring 175 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 12: our love one home. Of course, ten thousand dollars, he 176 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 12: might well say ten million at that time to me, 177 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 12: you know, and you know, we just we just didn't 178 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 12: have it, couldn't do it. 179 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 2: Everybody scratching to make it and feed the family. 180 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 12: And we all understood that because I'm thinking, Okay, I 181 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 12: got to get a loan, I got to do you 182 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 12: know something. But that was what was amazing too. Bell 183 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 12: to fires he understood that. He was like, because don't 184 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 12: worry about that. I'm gonna be all right. I didn't 185 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 12: do this, that this old thing. They're not gonna lock 186 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 12: me up because I didn't do this. 187 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: Judge Alfred Bayhackle appoints two attorneys to represent to forrest, 188 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: a sharply dressed thirty two year old black man named 189 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: Darryl Bender. And Erskine mathis a white, middle aged former 190 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: police officer with a thick mustache. In nineteen ninety seven, 191 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: Alabama paid appointed defense attorneys just twenty dollars an hour 192 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 1: for work outside the courtroom, with a cap of one 193 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: thousand dollars. Most appointed lawyers can't afford to work for free, 194 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: so this very low cap limited how well they could 195 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 1: prepare for trial. Ardregis Ford is first to go to 196 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 1: trial in November of no nineteen ninety seven. There's a 197 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: photo of him in the newspaper He's sitting in his 198 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: wheelchair in court wearing a starched collared shirt and dark blazer. 199 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: The junior prosecutor on the case is a thirty four 200 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: year old black man named Theo Lawson. Jeff Wallace is 201 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: the lead prosecutor. He's tall, white, a commanding figure in 202 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: the courtroom, forty three years old, twelve years into his career. 203 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 6: I think my reputation was of being a tough prosecutor, 204 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 6: meaning if I had the case, I pushed it toose limits. 205 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 6: And I think my reputation might be that I was 206 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 6: maybe a little too tough. Sometimes I hope that's not true, 207 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 6: but I'm afraid it might be true. 208 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: Jeff Wallace was assigned to major cases and aggressively sought 209 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: to please his boss, DA David Barber, who was a 210 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: tough on crime leader focused on getting convictions, and this 211 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: the case was personal for Jeff Wallace. He knew the victim. 212 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 6: Every prosecutor who is diligent works closely with the police, 213 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 6: and when something happens to one of them, you're not 214 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 6: one of the boys in blue, as they say, but 215 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 6: they're your friends. So when this happened at Deputy Hardy, 216 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 6: he got my attention. 217 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: The trial against Ar dregas Ford starts at one fifty 218 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: pm on November fifth. In a short opening statement, the 219 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: prosecution summarizes the crime for the jury, arguing that Ar 220 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: dregas Ford is guilty of capital murder. They don't mention 221 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: a motive. Afterwards, Jeff Wallace calls the county's chief medical 222 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: examiner to the stand. He explains that Hardy's wounds were 223 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: at an upward angle through his head. Jeff Wallace argues 224 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: this would be consistent with Ardregis firing the show shots 225 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: from his wheelchair. Prosecutors also call Yolanda Chambers as a witness, 226 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: even though she recanted her story in court a year ago. 227 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: Since then, she's gone back to saying that she was 228 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: there when Hardy was killed. She now says she saw 229 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: ardregas Ford fire at least one shot Richard. Jeffy. Ardregas's 230 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: lawyer argues that if the hotel witnesses had seen ardregas 231 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: Ford commit the crime, they would have seen this. 232 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 4: Ur dregas Ford wheeling up about thirty feet of an 233 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 4: incline in his wheelchair, somehow finding an ability to shoot 234 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 4: two shots into Deputy Hardy then be wheeled down by 235 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 4: someone all the way back to their car. The wheelchair 236 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 4: would have had to been put in Theregas. That's what 237 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 4: I had to have been physically put into the driver's seat. 238 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 4: DeForrest would have had to have gotten back into the 239 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 4: passenger seat, and then they would have driven off, and 240 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 4: that would have taken at least a minute or two minimum. 241 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: Of course, no one at the hotel saw anything like that. 242 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 4: The only thing they had on our Dregas forward was 243 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 4: Yolanda Chambers. 244 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: Jaffe calls witnesses to the stand who saw Ardregas at 245 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: Tea's place at the same time that Deputy Hardy was shot. 246 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 4: We didn't call any witnesses other than alibi witnesses. 247 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 1: The key decision the jury has to make. Do they 248 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: believe Yolanda chambers testimony that Ardregas killed Deputy Hardy behind 249 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: the Crown Sterling suites, or do they believe the three 250 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 1: alibi witnesses who say he was at Tea's place at 251 00:17:54,960 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: the same time that Deputy Hardy was murdered. The jury 252 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:12,120 Speaker 1: votes ten to two to acquit Ardragas Ford, but that's 253 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: not enough. Murder trials require a unanimous verdict. Since this 254 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: decision was split. Judge bay Haackle declares a mistrial, but 255 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: ardregas Ford is not set free. The state plans to 256 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: try him a second time. Two weeks later, the first 257 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: trial against to Forest Johnson begins. Here's to Forrest's cousin, 258 00:18:58,280 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: Antonio Green. 259 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 12: I remember me personally myself. I was very optimistic. I 260 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:09,640 Speaker 12: was very optimistic simply because I knew what they had, 261 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 12: which was nothing as far as evidence goes. I'm like, Okay, well, 262 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 12: it's just a part of the process. They'll hear the 263 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 12: evidence or like thereof, and we'll be going home, you know, 264 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 12: and this is all over. But as the days went on, 265 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 12: from the first couple of days of the trial, you 266 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 12: could see a really different environment in the courtroom. 267 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,439 Speaker 1: The only video from the trial I've seen is a 268 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: short TV news clip. It's filmed through a window on 269 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 1: the courtroom door, and to Forrest looks so young, much 270 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: younger than twenty four. He's clean shaven, baby faced, dressed 271 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: for court in a striped button down shirt and tie 272 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: with a gray blazer. He looks around the courtroom, maybe 273 00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: he's nervous, but then he lights up with the huge 274 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: smile when he sees a family member who comes over 275 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: to speak with him. The state's lead prosecutor, Jeff Wallace, 276 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: gets up in front of the jury. Just two weeks earlier, 277 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: he argued that our Dregis Ford shot Deputy Hardy, but 278 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 1: now he tells a completely different story. He says that 279 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: to Forrest Johnson shot Hardy. The theory that the shooter 280 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 1: was seated in a wheelchair is never mentioned, and Yolanda 281 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:33,719 Speaker 1: Chambers never sets foot in the courtroom. Instead, the prosecution 282 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: tells the jury in opening statements that they will hear 283 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: evidence that will convince them beyond a reasonable doubt that 284 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: to Forrest shot and killed Deputy Hardy. Then Jeff Wallace 285 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: introduces the state's new star witness, Violet Ellison. She tells 286 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 1: the jury she evesdropped on several three way calls because 287 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: she was concerned about her daughter talking to people at 288 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:04,439 Speaker 1: the jail and because she's naturally nosy. She says she 289 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: contacted detectives six days after she listened in on the 290 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: first call because she couldn't sleep after hearing information about 291 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: the murder of Deputy Bill Hardy. On the stand, Violet 292 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: Ellison tells the jury that she overheard to Forrest say 293 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:26,199 Speaker 1: these words, I shot the fucker in the head, and 294 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: I saw his head go back and he fell, and 295 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: he shouldn't have got in my business messing up my shit. 296 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,439 Speaker 1: There was no mention of I shot the fucker in 297 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: the head or anything like that. And Violet Ellison's original 298 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 1: recorded statement to police, she did write the statement down 299 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 1: in notes on the back of an envelope that she 300 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: submitted to police, but she gave them these notes six 301 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: weeks after her first recorded statement on the stand. She 302 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: says she jotted down the notes while she listened in 303 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: on the call between to Forest and Daisy, and then 304 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 1: copied the notes onto a sheet of paper. But it's 305 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: hard for me to believe that these notes were written 306 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: during the phone call she claims she overheard. For example, 307 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,640 Speaker 1: Violet Ellison is adamant in her testimony that she heard 308 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: to Forest only use his first name, but her notes 309 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: refer to him as Johnson. If she was just writing 310 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: down what she heard while she heard it, why wouldn't 311 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: she have written to Forest? How would she have known 312 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 1: his last name to Forrest's attorneys also say that what 313 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 1: Violet Ellison heard was just one side of a conversation. 314 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: They say to Forest was telling Daisy what he was 315 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: accused of doing, not what he did. He was responding 316 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 1: to her question, why are you in jail? But when 317 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: Darryl Bender questions Violet Ellison, she tells him she's positive 318 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: that Daisy never asked to Forest why he was in jail. 319 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: But then she also says that she didn't pay any 320 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,919 Speaker 1: attention to Daisy's side of the conversation because she was 321 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: only interested in what to Forest had to say. If 322 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: this feels confusing to you, welcome, I've been trying to 323 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: make this make sense for two years. How can Violet 324 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 1: Ellison insist that she knows what Daisy did or did 325 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: not say, while also admitting that she only listened to 326 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: one side of the conversation. Antonio Green, to Forest's cousin, 327 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: remembers watching Violet Ellison on this stand. 328 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 12: The only evidence supposedly they had against was this ear witness, 329 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 12: who had never heard him speak before, who had no 330 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,640 Speaker 12: idea who he was. But to sit in there and 331 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 12: see how the system from you know, the judge, the 332 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 12: prosecutors and all that pushed that case towards him. I 333 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 12: mean constantly it was he did it. We got the 334 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 12: right one. 335 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:26,679 Speaker 2: He did it. 336 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 12: And forget the evidence. Don't worry about that. We're just 337 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 12: telling you he did it. It's pretty much it's all 338 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 12: they had. 339 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: When Violet Ellison finishes testifying, Daisy Williams takes the stand. 340 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: She says to Forrest did not admit to the murder 341 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 1: on that phone call, and she never heard him say 342 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: the things Violet Ellison claimed to overhear. So Violet Ellison, 343 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: a friend of the victim, says she heard one thing. 344 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: Daisy Williams, friend of the accused, says she heard another. 345 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 1: The case comes down to who the jury will believe. 346 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: After five days of testimony to Forrest's supporters nervously wait 347 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 1: as the jury begins to deliberate, and once again, the 348 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 1: jury cannot reach a unanimous decision. Nine jurors vote to convict, 349 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: but three others are not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt. 350 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: The judge declares a mistrial. 351 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 12: They deliberated and they couldn't come to a verdict, so 352 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 12: they took him back to kept him locked up, and 353 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 12: immediately pretty much scheduled another date for a second trial. 354 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: So there wasn't really any time to celebrate. 355 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 12: No, no, oh no, no, it wasn't any of that, 356 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 12: and then even then I didn't think. I didn't look 357 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 12: at it as any type of victory, because an innocent 358 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 12: man should be found innocent. 359 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: It later on, Yeah, I'm nice to see you, Jeff. 360 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,199 Speaker 1: I'm at Shelburn. You can call me back, Can I 361 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: call you? 362 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 13: Jeff? 363 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 10: Okay? Great. 364 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: Jeff Wallace prosecuted both to Forrest and Ardregis. When I 365 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 1: emailed him to set up an interview, he asked me 366 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: to meet him at the large Methodist church he attends 367 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: in a Birmingham suburb. He's now retired, but spent twenty 368 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,399 Speaker 1: five years as a pro in Jefferson County. 369 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 5: Beautiful. 370 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:06,120 Speaker 1: Sure, we record the interview in the church's empty sanctuary. 371 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 1: He tells me he prefers to do interviews standing up 372 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: because of all of his courtroom experience. So we're standing 373 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 1: in this sanctuary at the altar, facing each other, having 374 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: this conversation in front of a giant pipe organ. The 375 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: way we're set up, it feels like we're either here 376 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:31,439 Speaker 1: to debate or get married. Anyway. This is why the 377 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: recording sounds a little echoey. 378 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 6: We had a weak case. It's placed on testimony of one. 379 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: Witness, Jeff Wallace remembers that the case against to Forrest 380 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: Johnson hinged on the testimony of Violet Ellison. 381 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 6: That is extremely strong evidence if it's believed. Of course, 382 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 6: the question becomes, so you believe that evidence? Well? To 383 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,679 Speaker 6: believe that evidence, you have to believe mis Ellison. To 384 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 6: believe mis Ellison, you have to look at the facts 385 00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 6: how she said it happened. 386 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: To Forrest's second trial begins eight months after the first 387 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:09,959 Speaker 1: one ends in a mistrial. Jeff Wallace is the lead prosecutor. Again. 388 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,920 Speaker 1: He calls Violet Ellison to the stand, where she testifies 389 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: that she overheard to Forrest admit to Hardy's murder on 390 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:22,120 Speaker 1: a three way phone call. Jeff Wallace says Violet Ellison 391 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,919 Speaker 1: listened in on the calls because she was concerned about 392 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:31,719 Speaker 1: her daughter, and once again, to Forrest's attorneys call Daisy Williams, 393 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,719 Speaker 1: who maintains that to Forest never confessed to the murder. 394 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: To Forest's lawyer, Darryl Bender asks Daisy, did he describe 395 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: to you the series of events that he said had occurred? Daisy? 396 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: No Bender? Did he tell you where this happened again, 397 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 1: Daisy No Bender? Did he tell you that he had 398 00:28:55,320 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: killed somebody? Daisy, No, Sir. Jeff Wallace tries to cast 399 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: doubt on Daisy's testimony. He says, maybe Daisy is testifying 400 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: about a different call, or maybe she's just the wrong Daisy. 401 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: Yet again, it's one witnesses word against another. Right before 402 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: Jeff Wallace addresses the jury for closing statements, he picks 403 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: up a piece of evidence, Deputy Hardy's hat, the one 404 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: that he would always wear on duty, the one he 405 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: was wearing when he was shot. It has a bullet 406 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: hole through the brim. Jeff Wallace argues that Violet Ellison 407 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: heard to Forrest Johnson bragging about what he did. Wallace 408 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: turns to the jury and says, let me read you 409 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: the words, his words, not mine. I shot the fucker 410 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: in the head. I saw his head go back and 411 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: he fell. He should never have gotten my business messing 412 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: up my shit. He says these words to the jury 413 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: like this is an on the record statement directly from 414 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: to Forrest Johnson, when it's really Violet Ellison's testimony of 415 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: what she says she overheard, however it occurred. Wallace continues, 416 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: He's proud of his role in it, and don't forget 417 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: that no matter how many shots were fired. He's proud 418 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,959 Speaker 1: of the one he put into Deputy Hardy's head. Here's 419 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: his respect for Bill Hardy. Wallace throws Hardy's hat onto 420 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: the courtroom floor. He's as guilty as they come. Judge 421 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 1: bay Hackle gives the jury instructions to carefully consider all 422 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: of the evidence. They begin deliberations at four twenty five 423 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: pm on a Friday afternoon to Forest's family waits for 424 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: the verdict. 425 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 12: He's a defendant, but he's innocent until proven guilty. 426 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 2: That didn't seem to be the case in the courtroom 427 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 2: during that time. 428 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 12: It was like, you have to go above and beyond 429 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 12: to prove you're innocent because as a right now you're guilty. 430 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 12: And that was that there was a dark feeling in there. 431 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 12: You couldn't you couldn't get around it. 432 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: Two and a half hours later, at seven to ten pm, 433 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: the jurors file back into the courtroom with their decision 434 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: to Forrest Johnson is found guilty of capital murder. Judge 435 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: bay Hackle schedules the penalty phase for the following Monday. 436 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: This is when the jury will decide to Forrest's fate, 437 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: should he be sent to prison for life, without parole 438 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 1: or put to death for Hardy's murder. The penalty phase 439 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 1: of a capital murder case represents the highest stakes in 440 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: our criminal justice system. Defense attorneys often call lots of 441 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: witnesses and sometimes spend weeks presenting evidence to try to 442 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: convince the jury to spare their client's life. The penalty 443 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: phase hearing for to Forest Johnson lasts only eighty minutes. 444 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: To Forrest's attorneys call three members of his family to testify. 445 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: When Erskine Mathis asks to Forre's grandmother, you know what 446 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:49,479 Speaker 1: we're here for today, She answers, well, yeah, I guess 447 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: not really, though it's clear Mathis and Bender didn't adequately 448 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 1: prepare her for the hearing. On the stand, to Forrest's mother, 449 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: Donna cries so hard she can barely hold her head up. 450 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 1: At one point, Mattha says to her, listen to me. 451 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: Can you raise your head up and look at me? 452 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: Donna Johnson tells the jury through her tears, just don't 453 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: give my baby no electric chair. The final witness is 454 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: to Forrest's cousin, Antonio Green. 455 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 12: I'm fifty two years old and until the day that's 456 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 12: probably one of the hardest things I've ever had to 457 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 12: do was get on that stand and beg for his life. 458 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 1: The jury deliberates to Forrest's fate for over five hours. 459 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 1: In the decision about whether or not to Forest should 460 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: live or die, all of the jurors don't have to agree. 461 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:54,239 Speaker 1: A unanimous vote is needed for guilt or innocence, but 462 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: a jury in Alabama can sentence a person to death 463 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 1: with a majority vote of ten to two, and just 464 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 1: after five pm they reach a decision with the minimum 465 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,879 Speaker 1: number of votes needed ten to two. The jury recommends 466 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: the death penalty. Judge Alfred Baackle affirms the recommendation that 467 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 1: to Forrest Johnson be executed for the murder of Deputy 468 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:36,319 Speaker 1: Bill Hardy. One newspaper reports that to Forest sat motionless 469 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 1: as the jury's recommendation was read, appearing to be stunned. 470 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: To Forrest's mother, Donna, screamed no, no, no. To Forrest's 471 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 1: oldest daughter, Shane, was in the courtroom that day. She 472 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 1: was six years old at the time, and I. 473 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 13: Just kept kind of trying to get his attention and 474 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,439 Speaker 13: blurting out how nice he loved in his suit, And 475 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 13: so finally the judge kind of had me escorted out 476 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 13: of the courtroom. But there's a little small window, and 477 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,839 Speaker 13: my cousin had me on his shoulders. He escorted me out. 478 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 13: He had me on his shoulders so I could just 479 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 13: peek through and see my dad through that little small 480 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 13: courtroom window, and ironically stole that was my last memory 481 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 13: of him in. 482 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:29,400 Speaker 2: The free world. 483 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 14: So my thing is this, why didn't they abandon reach 484 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 14: out to me? 485 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:24,800 Speaker 1: To Flores Felanick Sanders aka Quisy, still wonders why to 486 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,799 Speaker 1: Forrest's attorneys didn't call her or Mama Cat to testify 487 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 1: at his second trial like they did in the first one. 488 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 14: That makes me feel like we failed them because we 489 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 14: saw them and we wasn't the only ones, So it's 490 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 14: like what we said didn't even matter, like they didn't 491 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:44,279 Speaker 14: take it into consideration. 492 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 1: Mama Cat and Quisi were important alibi witnesses at his 493 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,439 Speaker 1: first trial who saw him at Tea's place the night 494 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:57,399 Speaker 1: party was murdered, and their testimony may have created enough 495 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:02,880 Speaker 1: reasonable doubt to prevent a guilty verse. Instead, to Forrest's 496 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:07,839 Speaker 1: attorneys called two other witnesses from Teas, but these witnesses 497 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 1: didn't seem well prepared and were flustered on the stand. 498 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,280 Speaker 1: I wondered the same about Marshall Kelly Cummings, the Keebler 499 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,840 Speaker 1: cookie guy. Why didn't they call him as a witness 500 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 1: in the second trial? What he saw out the window 501 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 1: one person slowly driving away in a copper colored car 502 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 1: that contradicted the state's story, But the jury that sentenced 503 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 1: to Forrest to death never heard from him. The third 504 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 1: difference between to Forest's first and second trials involves Latania Henderson, 505 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 1: the friend of Yolanda Chambers, who was in the car 506 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:55,080 Speaker 1: with to Forest and Ardregis after they left Tea's place. Remember, 507 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 1: Latania was facing a charge of hindering prosecution. She went 508 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 1: to jail for five months because she refused to go 509 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:07,240 Speaker 1: along with Yolanda chambers story. At the time of Taforest's 510 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:12,319 Speaker 1: second trial, Latania was still facing this charge when prosecutor 511 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 1: Jeff Wallace called her as a witness right before the 512 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 1: jurors were brought into the courtroom. Jeff Wallace told the judge, 513 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 1: the state wants to secure her testimony, and in that regard, 514 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: we are dismissing her hindering prosecution case. For years, Latania 515 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,240 Speaker 1: said that she didn't know anything about Deputy Hardy's murder 516 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 1: and It was only just before she took the stand 517 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:44,160 Speaker 1: for the prosecution that the state dropped the felony charge 518 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:49,760 Speaker 1: against her poof like magic. When she took the stand, 519 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,919 Speaker 1: Latania stuck to her story that she wasn't there when 520 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 1: Hardy was murdered, that no one in Rodregis's car talked 521 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:02,440 Speaker 1: about killing anyone, But she did say that she had 522 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:06,839 Speaker 1: a gun that night, and so did to Forrest. On 523 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,160 Speaker 1: the stand, she said she hid her gun on the 524 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:14,279 Speaker 1: tire of another car, and that Ardregis Yolanda and to 525 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:19,280 Speaker 1: Forrest hid the other gun under the dashboard. Police searched 526 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,719 Speaker 1: Ardregas's car after they impounded it. They never found a gun, 527 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 1: but Latanya's testimony put a gun into Forrest's hand on 528 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,920 Speaker 1: the night of the murder, and this likely stuck with 529 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 1: the jury and finally to Forest's lawyers called an unexpected witness. 530 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 9: The thing that happened to me that is the most 531 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:48,279 Speaker 9: just stunning is putting Elanda Chambers on the stand in 532 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:49,240 Speaker 9: the defense case. 533 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,480 Speaker 1: Derek Drennan was a young lawyer working with Jaffey on 534 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:58,360 Speaker 1: Ardregas's case. At the time. Both attorneys were paying close 535 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 1: attention to to Forrest's Truckles. When I first read the 536 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 1: trial transcript, I wondered, why would the defense call Yolanda 537 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 1: Chambers to the stand. And Derek had the same question 538 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,120 Speaker 1: as he watched it unfold. 539 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,800 Speaker 9: Why would you call the only person on the planet 540 00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,760 Speaker 9: who will testify on her oath that your client was there? 541 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:26,839 Speaker 9: You know, and lia I mean knowing they're lying about it. 542 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 1: Yolanda testified that she was at the scene of the 543 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:35,120 Speaker 1: crime with to Forest, Latanya and Ardregis. She said it 544 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 1: was Ardregas, not to Forrest who killed Deputy Hardy, but 545 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:46,839 Speaker 1: still her testimony directly contradicted to Forrest's alibi that he 546 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:47,880 Speaker 1: was at Teas place. 547 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,840 Speaker 9: They're asking a Drew to believe her when she says, 548 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 9: you know, Johnson didn't shoot him forward it. I don't 549 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:04,920 Speaker 9: know how that could that could be justified. There's nobody 550 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,520 Speaker 9: on the planet that's going to put your client on 551 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:12,720 Speaker 9: that parking lot that night except for you, Alanna Chambers. 552 00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:19,320 Speaker 9: Nobody will and to put her up there to say 553 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:24,839 Speaker 9: that their client was innocent because Ford did. It just 554 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:29,359 Speaker 9: beyond me, you know, that to me is just it's 555 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:30,840 Speaker 9: just really inexplicable. 556 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:40,440 Speaker 1: Prosecutor Jeff Wallace seized on this at trial. In his 557 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:44,319 Speaker 1: closing statement, he told the jury, if you go back 558 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,600 Speaker 1: in the jury room and decide that Yolanda Chambers ought 559 00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,440 Speaker 1: not to have been allowed to testify because she's a 560 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:54,440 Speaker 1: liar or whatever you might decide about her, that's okay. 561 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 1: State didn't call her the defense, did I want you 562 00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:07,680 Speaker 1: to rem that. I called both of to Forrest's original 563 00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:10,960 Speaker 1: trial lawyers to ask about the decisions they made in 564 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,319 Speaker 1: defending to Forest, but neither would sit down with me 565 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:16,160 Speaker 1: for an interview. 566 00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,799 Speaker 12: We forget sometime that there was a third person on 567 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,520 Speaker 12: that phone who told him to discredits what this lady says. 568 00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:31,359 Speaker 2: She heard you know what I mean? 569 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,040 Speaker 12: And now, how much closer can you get than that 570 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,359 Speaker 12: you're the third party in that three way conversation and 571 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,239 Speaker 12: you say, no, that's not what it was. 572 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,759 Speaker 1: I needed to find the person on the other end 573 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,600 Speaker 1: of the phone call that Violet Ellison overheard. The person 574 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:54,239 Speaker 1: who actually talked to to Forest, Daisy Williams. Daisy was 575 00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:58,359 Speaker 1: nineteen when she testified it to Forest's second trial. She's 576 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:02,040 Speaker 1: now in her mid forties and has never spoken publicly 577 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,440 Speaker 1: about the case. But she agrees to come to my 578 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:06,520 Speaker 1: house to talk. 579 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:08,480 Speaker 10: I'm a mechanic. 580 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:12,160 Speaker 1: How did you get into being a mechanic, into working. 581 00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:13,520 Speaker 10: On camba growing up? 582 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:15,760 Speaker 2: I love cars. 583 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,279 Speaker 10: I have a seventy one four at home now that 584 00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:20,759 Speaker 10: I'm trying to restore. I love working all them. I love, 585 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:22,880 Speaker 10: you know, going to like the car races and everything. 586 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,239 Speaker 1: We settle in on the couch and talk for over 587 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:26,760 Speaker 1: an hour. 588 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,000 Speaker 2: So Fars is a real good person. He got a 589 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:30,520 Speaker 2: real good. 590 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:34,279 Speaker 1: Heart, Daisy tells me to Forrest was friends with her 591 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:38,359 Speaker 1: two brothers, Charles and Eugene. They used to hang out 592 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,280 Speaker 1: and play basketball when they were growing up in Pratt City, 593 00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:45,279 Speaker 1: and her story about what happened on that phone call 594 00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:49,680 Speaker 1: is consistent. What she tells me more than twenty five 595 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:53,800 Speaker 1: years later doesn't vary from what she said on the stand. 596 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,200 Speaker 10: My cousin actually called me because he was in the 597 00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:58,800 Speaker 10: county jail at the time. 598 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:00,120 Speaker 1: And who was that? 599 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:00,440 Speaker 13: Was that? 600 00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:01,320 Speaker 2: Fre Fred Carter? 601 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:07,640 Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, So when that initial call came to you, 602 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:12,960 Speaker 1: I guess Fred had called Katrina Violet Ellison's daughter, and 603 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,719 Speaker 1: then she made the three way call to connect him 604 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,200 Speaker 1: to you. Yes, And then he put to Forrest on 605 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:19,080 Speaker 1: is that how it went? 606 00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:19,560 Speaker 2: Yes? 607 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,640 Speaker 10: He actually, like I said, he told me. He was like, yes, 608 00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:24,840 Speaker 10: who up here with me? And he knew, you know, 609 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 10: we all grew up in Press City together. And he 610 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:28,279 Speaker 10: was like to far, it's not like for real, and 611 00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,560 Speaker 10: he was. He gave Forrest phone, let me talk to him. 612 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:32,239 Speaker 10: So I'm talking to him, like, man, what's going on? 613 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,880 Speaker 10: And he told me I've been accused of, you know, 614 00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:36,400 Speaker 10: killing somebody. And I was like, man, you got a 615 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:38,759 Speaker 10: lawyer and he was like yeah, and we left it 616 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,560 Speaker 10: at Dick. We didn't go no further with that conversation 617 00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:45,200 Speaker 10: about the depth they that share. He said he was accused, 618 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:46,480 Speaker 10: and that's all he said to me. 619 00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:51,759 Speaker 1: Why did the jury believe this woman who eavesdrop on 620 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,480 Speaker 1: the call over you who actually. 621 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:55,120 Speaker 2: Had on the call. 622 00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:59,080 Speaker 10: I don't understand. I never understood it. You know, they 623 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,239 Speaker 10: went on hearsay, They went on, which she says she 624 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,800 Speaker 10: overheard they didn't actually listen to me. I was young, 625 00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:07,439 Speaker 10: so I feel like by me being young, they didn't 626 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:09,400 Speaker 10: actually listen to me. Oh well, she's just you know, 627 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:12,640 Speaker 10: somebody you know knows she probably just saying something. And 628 00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:13,439 Speaker 10: that's how I feel. 629 00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,759 Speaker 1: There are two recurring questions that come up when to 630 00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,640 Speaker 1: Forest's family and friends talk with me about the case? 631 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:37,520 Speaker 1: The first, why isn't Violet Ellison's testimony hearsay? Usually something 632 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:42,480 Speaker 1: that someone overheard is considered hearsay and not admissible as 633 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:47,040 Speaker 1: evidence in court. To Forest's lawyers tried to argue that 634 00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:50,640 Speaker 1: Violet Ellison's testimony was hearsay to get it thrown out, 635 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:55,560 Speaker 1: but the judge overruled them. It turns out there is 636 00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:59,080 Speaker 1: an exception to the hearsay rule when someone claims to 637 00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:05,080 Speaker 1: overhear the fen admitting to the crime. The second isn't 638 00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:10,040 Speaker 1: the jail supposed to record phone calls? According to testimony 639 00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:13,960 Speaker 1: from a jail supervisor, the phones in the Jefferson County 640 00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:18,040 Speaker 1: jail weren't equipped with the ability to record in nineteen 641 00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:29,480 Speaker 1: ninety five. One of the hardest things to comprehend about 642 00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:33,080 Speaker 1: this case is what happens ten months after to Forrest 643 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:37,360 Speaker 1: Johnson was convicted and sentenced to death. In June of 644 00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:42,160 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine, the state once again tries to convict 645 00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:48,320 Speaker 1: Ardregis Ford. Jeff Wallace prosecutes the Hardy case for the 646 00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:55,160 Speaker 1: fourth time. In the state's star witness, Yolanda Chambers, Violet 647 00:46:55,200 --> 00:47:00,719 Speaker 1: Ellison is never even mentioned, and Wallace presents yet another 648 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:05,880 Speaker 1: theory of the crime, a fifth theory. At the grand 649 00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:10,000 Speaker 1: jury hearing, the state argued that Ardregas and Omar Berry 650 00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:15,520 Speaker 1: killed Deputy Hardy. Then, at Ardregas's first trial, Jeff Wallace 651 00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:19,120 Speaker 1: said Ardregas was the only person who killed Deputy Hardy. 652 00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:23,319 Speaker 1: Then at to Forrest's first trial a month later, he 653 00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:27,840 Speaker 1: argued that to Forrest was the only shooter. A year later, 654 00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:30,920 Speaker 1: when to Forest was tried a second time, the state 655 00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:35,280 Speaker 1: said to Forrest fired a shot, and so did Quintez Wilson, 656 00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:39,680 Speaker 1: but they said Wilson was not being tried because of 657 00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:45,200 Speaker 1: a lack of evidence. And finally, after to Forrest, Johnson 658 00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:50,400 Speaker 1: was sentenced to death. And after Jeff Wallace characterized Yolanda 659 00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:55,560 Speaker 1: Chambers as a liar, he turns around and uses Yolanda 660 00:47:55,920 --> 00:48:01,720 Speaker 1: as his own star witness against Ardregis Ford. The jury 661 00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:05,920 Speaker 1: in Ardregas's second trial deliberates for less than an hour 662 00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:12,319 Speaker 1: and declares him not guilty. Ardregas is acquitted. I talked 663 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:16,359 Speaker 1: to his cousin Nicole about that moment. I wonder how 664 00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,480 Speaker 1: that made you feel, I mean, did it make you 665 00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,360 Speaker 1: feel like the system worked? That ar Dregas was acquitted. 666 00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:25,880 Speaker 8: It didn't make me feel like the system work. It 667 00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:31,799 Speaker 8: showed me that Richard JEFFI did a wonderful job defending him. 668 00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:37,000 Speaker 1: Ardregus and to Forrest had the same alibi. Nobody denies 669 00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:40,880 Speaker 1: that they were together the knight Hardy was killed, but 670 00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:46,080 Speaker 1: there was a major difference between their cases. Ardregas's family 671 00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:49,960 Speaker 1: was able to pay for a renowned attorney and to 672 00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:56,839 Speaker 1: Forrest's family wasn't. Meanwhile, prosecutors had a powerful tool at 673 00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:01,680 Speaker 1: their disposal, the ability to use multiple theories to get 674 00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:05,920 Speaker 1: the outcome. They were seeking someone to go down for 675 00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:06,840 Speaker 1: Hardy's murder. 676 00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:13,120 Speaker 4: No prosecutors should be allowed to, in any case, much 677 00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:18,839 Speaker 4: less a death penalty case, to try two different defendants 678 00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:25,080 Speaker 4: for the same crime using a different theory and different 679 00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:29,160 Speaker 4: sets of witnesses, as if they're staging two Broadway plays 680 00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:30,719 Speaker 4: of the same scenario. 681 00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:35,240 Speaker 1: Richard jeffy Ardregus's lawyer, this. 682 00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:41,279 Speaker 4: Case is all about alternative worlds that are in conflict 683 00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:44,840 Speaker 4: with each other and in conflict with truth, and in 684 00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,359 Speaker 4: conflict with what our justice system stands for. 685 00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:55,120 Speaker 1: Arguing inconsistent theories isn't technically illegal, but I mean, come on, 686 00:49:55,920 --> 00:50:00,440 Speaker 1: five different theories, There is no way all five of 687 00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:05,640 Speaker 1: these theories can be true. These theories are mutually exclusive 688 00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:11,480 Speaker 1: in conflict with each other. I ask Jeff Wallace to 689 00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:17,560 Speaker 1: explain how could he argue these mutually exclusive theories against 690 00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,160 Speaker 1: two different people for the same crime. 691 00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:24,800 Speaker 6: It's a valid question, but it's not the right question. 692 00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,200 Speaker 6: The right question is whether or not we argued something 693 00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:31,520 Speaker 6: that was supported by the evidence in that trial. 694 00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:35,520 Speaker 1: But help me understand how as a prosecutor you can 695 00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,880 Speaker 1: argue that one person is the gunman in the killing 696 00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:42,080 Speaker 1: of a deputy, he's convicted and sentenced to death, and 697 00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:45,799 Speaker 1: then at a subsequent trial argue that another person was 698 00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:46,400 Speaker 1: the shooter. 699 00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:54,280 Speaker 6: Well, it would not be, if I can be hyper technical, 700 00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:56,560 Speaker 6: it would not be the shooter of the same bullet. 701 00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:01,520 Speaker 1: Jeff Wallace gives me a long winded ex explanation about 702 00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:05,560 Speaker 1: how two people could be guilty of the same crime if, 703 00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:10,440 Speaker 1: for example, one person shoots a victim and another fires 704 00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:15,799 Speaker 1: a shot, but the bullet flies off into space. But 705 00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:18,480 Speaker 1: that's not what Jeff Wallace argued at trial. 706 00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:21,680 Speaker 6: The victim you don't have to decide which one fired 707 00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:23,240 Speaker 6: the shot or both guilty. 708 00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:25,799 Speaker 1: But the evidence showed that there was only one gun 709 00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,600 Speaker 1: and one gunman right, Oh, I don't know if you 710 00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:33,319 Speaker 1: say that. I think that's what the firearms expert testified 711 00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:37,919 Speaker 1: to he did. A firearms examiner looked at the two 712 00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:41,560 Speaker 1: shell casings found at the murder scene and determined they 713 00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:46,080 Speaker 1: had been fired from the same nine milimeter pistol, indicating 714 00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:51,520 Speaker 1: there was only one shooter. I keep pressing him. I 715 00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:55,279 Speaker 1: want Jeff Wallace to tell me how he squared in 716 00:51:55,400 --> 00:52:00,239 Speaker 1: his own mind these contradictory theories about who fired the 717 00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:05,640 Speaker 1: fatal shots. Jeff and I go round and round in theory. 718 00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:10,120 Speaker 1: Prosecutors are employed to seek the truth. They don't have 719 00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:14,839 Speaker 1: a mandate to obtain convictions. But the law allowed him 720 00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:17,840 Speaker 1: to do what he did. And Jeff Wallace told me 721 00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:22,120 Speaker 1: himself he was known to push a case to its limits. 722 00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:27,000 Speaker 6: I'm afraid that my reputation was that I was fairly 723 00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:32,319 Speaker 6: pan Oh. I tried to follow all the roads, tried 724 00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,000 Speaker 6: to do exactly what the boss wanted done, and so 725 00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:40,839 Speaker 6: I tried to follow all orders. And now wish I'd 726 00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:44,040 Speaker 6: been a little more yielding. Sometimes I wish I'd seen 727 00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:48,799 Speaker 6: a little more gray. But I was fairly black and white. 728 00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:46,520 Speaker 5: And. 729 00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:51,160 Speaker 6: I'm afraid I was fairly mean. And I'm not necessarily 730 00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:51,799 Speaker 6: proud of that. 731 00:52:55,600 --> 00:53:01,120 Speaker 1: As to Forrest's family watched their worst nightmare unfold, it 732 00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:04,839 Speaker 1: was clear that he wasn't the only one failed by 733 00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:09,799 Speaker 1: these trials. They also thought about Deputy Bill Hardy and 734 00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:10,640 Speaker 1: his family. 735 00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,880 Speaker 12: You know, the victim's family deserved to know what happened 736 00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:19,480 Speaker 12: to their loved one, but they get no justice, no 737 00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:23,840 Speaker 12: peace out of a wrongful conviction, you know. And this 738 00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:27,279 Speaker 12: is simply a case of just anybody all do and 739 00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,880 Speaker 12: looking at it from the inside, it seems like the 740 00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:36,160 Speaker 12: whole thing was just put together like a puzzle. All 741 00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:39,000 Speaker 12: this is going on in a court of law that's 742 00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:52,120 Speaker 12: supposed to be the most honest place in our country. 743 00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:56,560 Speaker 1: After he sentenced to death, correctional officers put to Forest 744 00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:59,399 Speaker 1: in a van and drive him two hundred miles south 745 00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:03,680 Speaker 1: of Birmingham. He arrives at Holman Prison and is assigned 746 00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:07,640 Speaker 1: a five y eight cell on death row, where he'll 747 00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:12,759 Speaker 1: spend twenty three hours a day. Roaches crawl everywhere, and 748 00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:17,919 Speaker 1: there's no air conditioning in this sweltering Alabama heat. As 749 00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,880 Speaker 1: months go by, to Forrest learns to survive in this 750 00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:27,160 Speaker 1: agonizing space, but he also sees prison guards take men 751 00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:30,680 Speaker 1: from their cells and walk them around the corner to 752 00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:35,400 Speaker 1: the death chamber, and he wonders when they are coming 753 00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:38,040 Speaker 1: for him? Is he next? 754 00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:43,600 Speaker 9: He just started crying and I asked him what was wrong, 755 00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:46,480 Speaker 9: and he said that he had just assumed that they 756 00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:48,840 Speaker 9: could come any minute and take him to be executed. 757 00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:59,160 Speaker 1: That's next time. Ear Witness is a production of Lava 758 00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:04,120 Speaker 1: for Good podcast in association with Signal Company Number One. 759 00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:09,360 Speaker 1: Executive producers are Jason Flom, Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardis, and 760 00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:13,680 Speaker 1: me Beth Shelburn. The investigative reporting for this series was 761 00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:18,919 Speaker 1: done by Me and MARAA McNamara. Producers are MARAA McNamara, 762 00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:24,520 Speaker 1: Hannah Bial, and Jackie Pawley. Kara Kornhaber is our senior producer. 763 00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:29,759 Speaker 1: Britt Spangler is our sound designer. Additional story editing from 764 00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:35,560 Speaker 1: Marie Sutton, fact check help from Katherine Newhan, and special 765 00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:40,239 Speaker 1: thanks to to Forrest Johnson's legal defense team. You can 766 00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:44,920 Speaker 1: follow the show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook and Twitter at 767 00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:48,319 Speaker 1: Lava for Good. To see behind the scenes content from 768 00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:52,919 Speaker 1: our investigation, visit Lava for goood dot com slash ear 769 00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:53,680 Speaker 1: Witness