1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: And now Move the Sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks. 2 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to Move the Sticks. I'm Bucky Brooks and I 3 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: am flying solo for most of day. My partner, Daniel 4 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: Jeremiah is out on vacation, kind of hanging out doing 5 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: what he does during the summer months. So I'm running 6 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: the ship. I'm doing solo. But I am excited because 7 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: we have a great guest on today. We have Pro 8 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: Football Hall of Fame executive Bill Polian joining us and 9 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: we're having a one on one conversation about everything that 10 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: you've ever wanted to know about scouting and the team 11 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: building process. Um. He is fantastic. UM. So without further ado, 12 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: let's just get to the interview. Here's my conversation with 13 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: Bill Polly joining the Move the Sticks Podcast. Uh. Someone 14 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: who have always wanted to talk to um about the 15 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: team building process to scouting business. Uh. Pro Football Hall 16 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: of Famer, Super Bowl champ, and six time NFL Executive 17 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: of the Year. Uh. Bill Polian also the host of 18 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: the Inside Football Podcast with Bill Polian. How you doing, 19 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: Mr Poleon Good Bucky? How are you? I can't tell 20 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: you how excited I am because I feel like we 21 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: have so many connections along the way. I feel like 22 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: I've learned from you without even working for you. Obviously, 23 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: I was drafted by the Buffalo Bills after you left 24 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: the Buffalo Bills, and then I eventually worked as a 25 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 1: scout for the Carolina Panthers, and a lot of your 26 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 1: philosophies and ideology still existed in both of those places. 27 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: So I want to begin with the Buffalo Bills because 28 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: I think it's an underrated dynasty that has never fully 29 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: been appreciated. Uh to have a team that you were 30 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: a part of building. They went to four strate Super Bowls? 31 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: Can you just talk about them? The process, how specially 32 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: it was to be a part of that, well, it 33 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: was unique in a lot of ways. Um. Number one, 34 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: we were in the Cowboys with the triplets, were really 35 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: the last of the pre free agency teams. Our teams 36 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: stayed together for a long time, which was a neat thing. Uh, 37 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: So that was unique. Secondly, you know when you go 38 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 1: to the Super Bowl, just the length of the season 39 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: and that last month month and a half we're involved 40 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 1: in the run to the playoffs and then ultimately the playoffs, 41 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,679 Speaker 1: it's just so pressure packed. They lose, they use the 42 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: term in baseball high leverage, and that's absolutely right. That 43 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: takes a lot out of you. People talk about a 44 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: Super Bowl hangover, and and it isn't because you're partying 45 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: or you don't you don't want to win, or you 46 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:49,959 Speaker 1: satiated after you win the Super Bowl or even after 47 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: you lose. It's because that that six weeks leading up 48 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 1: to it is just such a grind. Um, it's hard 49 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: to come back from that. And Coach Levy did a miraculous, 50 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: marvelous job getting our guys focused, and they did a 51 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: marvelous job staying focused and hungry through the whole process. 52 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: And and so that part of it is unique. And 53 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: I think because of free agency and because there is 54 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: so much media in this day and age. Um, I 55 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: don't think anybody will ever to do that again. I mean, 56 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: it's really hard to do. It's hard to do twice, 57 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 1: much less four times in a row. It's an unbelievable run. 58 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: And so and think about that. I come right at 59 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: the end of that run, and that's my first exposure 60 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: to a team. So my first exposure to a championship 61 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: caliber team is one with the Hall of Fame quarterback, 62 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: a Hall of Fame running back, a Hall of Fame 63 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: wide receiver in Andre Reid, a Hall of Fame defensive 64 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: been and Bruce Smith another high level player, and Cornelius 65 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: been it. And so when I think about team building processes, 66 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: what is your team building philosophy when it comes to 67 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: the market positions? What are the market positions on a 68 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: championship caliber football team? Well, it changes slightly in the 69 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: free agency area because of the salary cap. But having 70 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: said that, um, the real issue is first, it starts 71 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: with quarterback. Unless you have a quarterback who can win, 72 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: not just manage the game. You have the one who 73 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: can win in December. In January, you're not gonna go 74 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 1: where you want to go. It's really that simple. You 75 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 1: have to have a wide receiver who can win against everybody. 76 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: That means that he has to be good enough so 77 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: that Bill Belichick can't take him away in a championship game. 78 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 1: He's got to be good enough so that the really 79 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 1: good defensive teams can't take him away. He's got to 80 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: be able to make plays in that situation. You have 81 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 1: to have a left tackle who can handle all the 82 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 1: all the pressure that you need to get. You have 83 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 1: to have a center who controls the offensive line and 84 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:13,359 Speaker 1: who can make all the all the calls. Nowadays, you 85 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: pretty much need a right tackle who can who can 86 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: play at a high level. You can get by with 87 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:23,280 Speaker 1: athleticism now at right tackle. You couldn't in the days 88 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 1: when you were playing. By the way I scouted you 89 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: with North Carolina, my fingerprints are on your to the bill. 90 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 1: I think I feel like I know you, you know, 91 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: because of all the times I saw you playing Carolina 92 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: um in any event, and you need a running back 93 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 1: who can carry the load um down the stretch and 94 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: through the playoffs. Most running backs nowadays can't go sixteen 95 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: when you stop and think about Barry Sanders and Thurman Thomas, 96 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: and that's the reason they're in the Hall of Fame 97 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: because they they go sixteen or fifty um. But nowadays 98 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 1: you need to but you have to have the bell 99 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: cow so to speak, who can who can make plays 100 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: and win games for you, because what happens on offense 101 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 1: is that the running back wins by making people miss 102 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: and making big runs and making something out of nothing. 103 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: Think about Levian Bell and his hey day with the 104 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: with the Steelers, and how many games did he win 105 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 1: for them by ripping off a big run, whether it's 106 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: in four minute or whether you know you needed two 107 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: yards for a first down or you needed to flip 108 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: the field. Um, those kinds. You have to have that 109 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 1: kind of back. You have to have that receiver who 110 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: can make the play. Thinking staying with the Sailors Antonio Brown, 111 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: you have to have the quarterback Big Ben is an example. 112 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: And you've got to have an offensive line. The two 113 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: tackles in the center that can can basically do everything 114 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: they've got to pass protect. That's a must. But they 115 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: also have to be good in the running game, and 116 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: that goes to the offensive line coach. You have to 117 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: that's the one position where you have to have a 118 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: coach who can manage his position totally on his own 119 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: and and get the most out of the guys that 120 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: he has and essentially create a run game where his 121 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: guys can shine. Um that that that's a must when 122 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: you hire a staff. I would argue that the offensive 123 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: line coach is probably the most important guy in the 124 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: whole operation as far as assistant coaches are concerned, because 125 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: he's on his own by himself. I mean, he doesn't 126 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: get any work with anybody else other than the defensive 127 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: line coach, Um, you have to have a kicker who 128 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:53,559 Speaker 1: can win in the clutch in every single situation, every 129 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: kind of weather, every kind of pressure, indoors out, it 130 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: doesn't make any difference. That guy has to be able 131 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: to come through in the clutch, and kickers win championships. 132 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: When we went to Caroline, I think our first free 133 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: agent signing, big free agent signing with John Casey, and 134 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: people were crazy signing a kicker. Not if you want 135 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: to win championships. Uh, you have to have a not 136 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: only reliable, but a guy who's really good in the clutch, 137 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: because they that's where games are one and lost at 138 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: the championship level. Um. Then on defense, you have to 139 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: be able to rush the passer, and you have to 140 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 1: be able to in this day and age if you're 141 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: going to really be good, and almost from the time 142 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: that we were in Buffalo, but certainly from the time 143 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: Tom Brady and Peyton Manning were in their heyday, you 144 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: have to be able to rush from the inside. You 145 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: have to have a guy who can get it done 146 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 1: inside because if you can't, it doesn't matter for the Bradies, 147 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: the Marinos, the Mannings. You can put two F F 148 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: six f sixteen off the edge and it won't make 149 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,959 Speaker 1: any difference. He'll just step up or slide around. You 150 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: have to get people under his feet. You could not rush. 151 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: In Marina. We had Bruce Smith and and Cornelius spent it. 152 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, the two of the best in football. 153 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: Ones a Hall of Famer and the other should be 154 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: and and and nothing bothered him with them. We had 155 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: to stunt and get people up the middle. Eventually moved 156 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: Bruce inside in critical situations where he could overpower a guard. 157 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: You have to have pressure underneath nobody. No quarterback likes 158 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: pressure under his feet, and so you have to have 159 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: those three things on the defensive line. Without Without those, 160 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: you're not going to the big dance. And then I 161 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: would say you need uh depending on your system. If 162 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: you're a three four system, you need a power inside linebacker, 163 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: even need a guy that can can stop the run. 164 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: If you're a four or three, if you're a Dungee 165 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: type system or Carroll type system, um, you really need 166 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: you need the weak linebacker because he's the guy that 167 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: everything in the run game is funnel too. And uh 168 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: so he's gonna make plays. So you have to have 169 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,839 Speaker 1: a keekly whether he plays in the middle or at 170 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: will as in material, but you gotta have him and 171 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: and then, believe it or not, the two safeties have 172 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 1: to be really good players. And if you have a 173 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: Bob Sanders at Troy Paula Mallow someone like that, you're 174 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,839 Speaker 1: you're You've taken a big step toward winning a championship. 175 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: Because the strong safety, if he can go two ways, 176 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 1: if he can play back and cover two and come 177 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: up and stop the run, playing the box, if he 178 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: has to be the eighth man in the box, and 179 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: he can do that well and change games, then you're 180 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: in clover. I think having those things is an absolute must. 181 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 1: The others you can build around. It's really when it 182 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 1: when it all boils down to it. When you think 183 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: about we used the color scheme blue being the best players, 184 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: read being you're familiar with it. I'm sure most of 185 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: our listeners and viewers are too. Um. You have to 186 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: have at least twelve blues and reds on your team 187 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 1: to win a championship. That's that's a metric that that 188 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: never fails. It's it's true you're in in your app. 189 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: That's funny, so haven't worked in Carolina under Tony softly. 190 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: Tony always talked about we need to have ten to 191 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: twelve blues to be able to be at a championship level. 192 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: The year we went to the Super Bowl in two 193 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: thousand three, we had that primarily on defense. But when 194 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: I go back and I look at this team building 195 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: formula that you've constructed, to me, it stands the test 196 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: of time because I look at your teams in Buffalo, 197 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: I look at the team in Carolina that you build, 198 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: they went to the NFC championship game. When I was 199 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: in Jackson where we went to the championship game, and 200 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: then when I look at the Colts, I can just 201 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 1: check off the boxes on all of those things. Um, 202 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: let's start at quarterback though, when you talk about the 203 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: core traits, because you mentioned something to me that kind 204 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 1: of wrangle Bill when you said, I need a winner, 205 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: not a manager, but when we get in critical situations 206 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 1: in the playoffs, I need a quarterback that can go 207 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: win the game. There are a lot of guys now 208 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 1: that are being paid like a franchise quarterback, but you 209 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: and I both know they don't have that capability. And 210 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 1: so what what identifies like what stands out when you 211 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 1: talk about that winner how do you see that? What? What? 212 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: What do they do that shows you that, Okay, this 213 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: guy is the winner that I can do the way. Well, 214 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: it isn't money, as you know, the money is is 215 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: just a function who's in the market in a given year. 216 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 1: That's that's why that Players Union fought so hard for 217 00:12:55,840 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: free agency. But um, I really think that playing quarterback 218 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: boils down to some very simple core things. The first 219 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 1: is accuracy. You have to be accurate, and that means 220 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: um putting the ball where it has to be sort 221 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: of defender can't get it. You've got to be able 222 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: to throw people open. That's what Throwing people open means, 223 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: putting the ball where the defender can't get it even 224 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: though he's got good coverage. That's number one. Number two, 225 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: you have to be able to get it out quickly. 226 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,679 Speaker 1: I was on my serious radio show. We talked to 227 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: Dante Scarnecki a couple of weeks ago, and it was 228 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: just I could have done three hours whether it was 229 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,839 Speaker 1: so educational, And I said to him, how the heck 230 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,319 Speaker 1: were you able to? Um take care of Freeny and 231 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: mathis every year, you know, we could rush everybody else, 232 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: we couldn't really get to Tom very often. And he said, well, 233 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: we had Tom check Freeny on virtually every play, and 234 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: if Frenny had a step on the on the left tackle, 235 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: the ball was coming out. So you and I saw 236 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: the plays in my mind's eye. Yeah, okay, I get it. 237 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: I wish I knew that man. But uh, he has 238 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: to be able to get the ball out and get 239 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: it out accurately and without a lot of wasted motion. 240 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: That's it's really You have to have a quarterback who 241 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: has a cannon for an arm if his release isn't 242 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: quick carry Collins did have the so called hitch. It 243 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: wasn't a hitch. It was simply a way he cocked 244 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: the ball. But the bottom line is that his arm 245 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: was so strong he could compensate for it. Plus we 246 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: were down the field offense, so that that helped to 247 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: some degree. But um, he's gotta get it. He's gotta 248 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: be accurate, he's got to get it out there quickly, 249 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: and most importantly, he has to process quick clean. If 250 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: he can do those three things, arm strength is not 251 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: an issue. Now. Now you'd want them to be able 252 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: to drive the ball to the outside from the far hash. 253 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: You know, he want him to make the seventeen yard outthrow. 254 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: But you know, every year we hear in the pre 255 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: draft hype this guy has a cannon for an arm. 256 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: He can throw at sixty yards. Soup, that's nice. How 257 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: many times do you throw at sixty yards? Very often? 258 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: And so uh, you know, if you have a Mahomes 259 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: like arm, that's great, that's tremendous. But the thing I 260 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: think that sets Mahomes apart is that he can throw 261 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: accurately from so many different platforms. You know, he throws 262 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: its side arm, he throws a three quarter, he throws 263 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: it off his back foot, he throws it when he's running. 264 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: Those are the The accuracy is what's stunning about him 265 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: from so many different platforms. So I think those things 266 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: and then the ability to make the play in the clutch, 267 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: that's what winners do. Um marv Um said, Marvel Leave. 268 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: He said to me one time, it just in passing, 269 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: he said, you know, we were I forget who we 270 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: were looking at. It was a college player, might have 271 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: been Joe Montana with with the with the forty niners. 272 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: He threw sort of an ugly pass, you know, And 273 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: I said that wasn't beautiful? And Mark said, you know what. 274 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: Winners find a way to win, and it's true they do, 275 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: and they find a way to make a play. And 276 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: Jim Kelly is a prime example of that. Um it 277 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: didn't matter how many times you knocked him down, he'd 278 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: get right back up and find a way to make 279 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: a play. Famous. No one ever saw this because it 280 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: was a play in the usfl but it epitomizes Jim Kelly. 281 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: We were with the Chicago Blitz, Marv and I and 282 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: John Butler, who you remember of the late John Butler 283 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 1: and uh and John was on the phone upstairs, and 284 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: I was down on the sideline next to Marvin. We 285 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: had Doug Plank plant safety and we called the Blitz 286 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: and Doug came free. Jim Kelly's playing for the Houston 287 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: gun Slayers and and and he gamblers, excuse me, and 288 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 1: Doug hit him right under the chin. He would have 289 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: been ejected today. Hit him right under the chin. You 290 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,880 Speaker 1: can see the blood fly out. Jim was falling backwards 291 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:32,159 Speaker 1: and went through and through a touchdown past and I 292 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 1: turned to marvin'said, holy bleep and John here, John upstairs, Holy, 293 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: what does happen? Well, Jim Kelly just happened? You know that. 294 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: That's those guys have that special knack of making plays. 295 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,199 Speaker 1: Tom Brady, as you know, I broadcast, I was the 296 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 1: color guy on radio for ESPNS Game of the Week 297 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: in the NFL for about six years and love doing it. 298 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: And we had so many New Zealand games. And nobody 299 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: in the history of football is as good as Tom Brady. 300 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: When you give him a break, you make a mistake 301 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: obvious to call them gifts. You give the opposition a gift. 302 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: He cashes in at Neiman Marcus Man. He he takes 303 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: your bank account. He doesn't go to the gas station. 304 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 1: You know he's coming at. No one has the killer 305 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 1: instinct of Tom Brady that I've ever seen. So it's 306 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 1: those special qualities that allow them to make plays in 307 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 1: the clutch that set the real winners apart. And that 308 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 1: it's hard to it's hard to put a metric on 309 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: that other than how many times have they led their 310 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: team from behind? How well the fourth quarter passing doesn't 311 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: tell you the story. How many times have they won 312 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: a game when they're behind in the fourth quarter. I 313 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: think Peyton and Brady lead the lead that statistic all time, 314 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: but I could be wrong on that, But I know 315 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 1: they're way up there. How many times has he has 316 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,439 Speaker 1: he led his team from behind in the fourth quarter 317 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,120 Speaker 1: when the game's on the line. You know who's better 318 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: than Tom Brady in the playoffs? I mean nobody, So Montana, Um, 319 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 1: you know, Bradshaw. You can keep naming the Hall of famers. 320 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: That's that's that's that's what sets them apart. Yeah, the 321 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: common denominator. And you know, it's funny when you talk 322 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: about the quarterback position because I feel like, because of 323 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: who you've been around and who you've been exposed to 324 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: from a scouting perspective, you keep the standard very, very high. 325 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: And I think it's easy in our business to want 326 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: to do it right, particularly on this side, to want 327 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: to get right. Hey, this guy's gonna be the first 328 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 1: round pick or whatever. But if you appear to the 329 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 1: standard of what you're talking about, there are not many 330 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 1: guys that deserve to be at the top, at the 331 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: top of the board when you talk about the standard 332 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 1: and those four things that you talk about. So from 333 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 1: Peyton Manning, just Peyton Manning not only check off those boxes, 334 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 1: but when I think of quick processing, I think of 335 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: Peyton and the amount of stuff that appeared that he 336 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: had on his plate, and he was able to direct 337 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 1: that offense. That's what you're looking for. The quarterback listened 338 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: from an intellect standpoint, Well, you'd like it. Um, you're 339 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 1: right about a high standard. Um. We had a young 340 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: intern with us years ago in Indianapolis who was very 341 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 1: bright and and went on to do a lot of 342 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: good things. And we were talking about quarterbacks when we 343 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 1: were going through the quarterbacks that were listed in the draft, 344 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: and I kept saying, no, I'm not excited about this guy. 345 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: I really you know, he's okay, but he's not what 346 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,360 Speaker 1: you want. And he said, Bill, can anybody play? I said, 347 00:20:54,440 --> 00:21:04,400 Speaker 1: very few, many of called, but fewer jokes. It's there. 348 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 1: The standard is high. Now, Peyton had really so much 349 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: on his plate that I don't think other than he 350 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: and Brady, we've ever seen a quarterback manage the game 351 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: that way. I don't mean manage the game in a 352 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: in a pejorative sense. Manage the offense and conduct the offense, 353 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 1: and set the protections and change the formations and go 354 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,439 Speaker 1: to the audibles and all the kind of things that 355 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: those guys did. And that's because they were such great 356 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 1: workers and and their preparation was exquisite. Um, that's not 357 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: entirely necessary. I think as long as you can process 358 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: on Sunday and you can get in and out of 359 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: the audibles that the coaching staff has given you, someone 360 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 1: else can call the protections if necessary, you know, really 361 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: offensive Lineman the center can do that. Um. So you're 362 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: not necessarily looking for Einstein and and and and and 363 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 1: even the test score or g p A doesn't doesn't 364 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: necessarily correlate those rare people like Brady and Manning have 365 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: the have that in a capacity to see the game 366 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: in a different way than most of us do. But 367 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,919 Speaker 1: that's not necessary as long as a quarterback has the 368 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 1: other things. The most important thing in terms of leadership 369 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,879 Speaker 1: is work ethic. Is he going to be there the 370 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: first one in and the last one out literally and 371 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: working seven days a week literally, Because if he doesn't, 372 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: then no one else is going to. So that part 373 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: of it is a given. Um, But I don't you know, 374 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: I wouldn't expect, uh, for example, a college quarterback to 375 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: have the capacity to do what Manning and Brady did. 376 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: So what's funny is of late, we're seeing in the 377 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 1: last ten years teams are going to the Super Bowl 378 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: with the quarterback that is playing on his rocky deal 379 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: and so it requires, um, it appears that it acquires 380 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: the offensive coordinator in the head coach to be able 381 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: to kind of, I don't want to say dumb it down, 382 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 1: but have a little flexibility and adaptability when it comes 383 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: to playing with the young quarterback. If you were in 384 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: the business today and you were tasked with building a 385 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: Super Bowl team with a young quarterback, like, what changes, 386 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: um now compared to yesteryear when when you're building a 387 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: team with a young guy and you got that five 388 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: year window to get it done. Yeah, Well do you 389 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: hope you have the five year window? And you're right, 390 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: because the championship, the life of the championship team is 391 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: about six years before you you really have to turn 392 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 1: a lot of people over. Um. What what I've what 393 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: I term it is that that the offensive coordinator and 394 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: the quarterback coach have to be two crutches for the 395 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: rookie quarterback. Literally he has to be able to lean 396 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: on them in practice, in preparation, especially in the game 397 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 1: to be able to say, okay, um, what was it 398 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: that Donald said last year? I'm seeing ghosts? Well, you 399 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: and I know that that's very common. How many times 400 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: have you said, have we looked at tape and said, boy, 401 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 1: that guys seeing ghosts? Well, Donald gave voice to it 402 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: and and fans were shocked and media were shocked by it. 403 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: When when it's very very comic comment. So you go 404 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 1: to the sidelines and he says to the coast coach, 405 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: I'm seeing ghosts. And he said, fine, that's don't worry 406 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,360 Speaker 1: about let's let's look at the let's look at the pictures, 407 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 1: and I'll show you what the key on so that 408 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 1: you don't see ghosts. So they have to be crutches 409 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: literally for the quarterback uh or training wheels if it 410 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 1: may be a little bit better analogy, so that he's 411 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: able to steer that bicycle in the right direction and 412 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: perform at a high level without worrying about going off 413 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 1: the road because he doesn't process something or he's not 414 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:16,160 Speaker 1: he doesn't have enough experience to see something correctly. You 415 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: hope that as time goes by and the best ones 416 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,959 Speaker 1: do this, they make they don't make the same mistake twice. 417 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 1: Once they've seen a defense, once they've seen something that's 418 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 1: confused them and the coaches talked through with them, then 419 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: they say Okay, I've got it, and now we go. 420 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: And one measure that you use in terms of metrics 421 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 1: and talking about whether they're qualified or not is to 422 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: see whether they can learn and retain. Retention is the key. 423 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 1: But if you're playing with a young quarterback, that means 424 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: you're investing in defense, and which is good. You absolutely 425 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: have to to win a Super Bowl. Um, the quarterback 426 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 1: coach and the offensive coordinator or the head end or 427 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: the head coach have to be training wheels for him 428 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: to help them navigate the road. Yeah, it's Um, it's 429 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,679 Speaker 1: a tricky thing because now what we're seeing is we're 430 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: seeing these guys that are going to the Super Bowl 431 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: or Ricky contracts. But year three ends up being critical 432 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 1: because now you make the decision on whether to extend 433 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,679 Speaker 1: the fifth year option, and then you have to make 434 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,439 Speaker 1: a decision do we want to pay significant sums of 435 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 1: money for the quarterback? And if the quarterback is just 436 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: as we've talked about earlier on the podcast, a manager, 437 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 1: how far are we willing to go with a managerial 438 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,199 Speaker 1: type at the position or are we willing to go 439 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: back in the draft and see if we can find 440 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: the right guy. If you're a decision maker, how are 441 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 1: you balancing that? Do we just keep the guy that 442 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: we know is just okay or are we willing to 443 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: always search for great at that position? Um, I wanted 444 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:55,360 Speaker 1: to do both. I'm risk Averts number one. So I'm 445 00:26:55,359 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: not gonna let the guy who's functional go until I 446 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: have somebody that I know is better to replace it. 447 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: But if he's only functional and you're convinced after three 448 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 1: years that he's not going to take you to the 449 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 1: promised land, um, and it's it's hard to make that judgment. 450 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 1: It's really it's that's a hard judgment to make. UM. 451 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: But if you're convinced, then you better go looking for 452 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,199 Speaker 1: the ultimate answer. But I would not. I would not 453 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: unload the guy that I have, especially if he's on 454 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: a rookie contract where I have rights to him technically 455 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 1: for for two more years or maybe three. I wouldn't 456 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 1: let him go until I was sure that the replacement 457 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: was on board. So that brings me to a conversation 458 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,199 Speaker 1: because there's been a lot of like conversation around Dak Prescott. 459 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: Because Dak Prescott is one of the few quarterbacks that 460 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: has been on a franchise deal, and so from the 461 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: outside of the peers that the Cowboys are either uncertain 462 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: or they can't reached agreement based on like how he 463 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: views his value and how the Cowboys view the value 464 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: long term, when you're a team like this and now 465 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: that your quarterback is on the franchise deal, is an 466 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 1: imperative to get them signed to the long term or 467 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: are you telling your skills we have to be on 468 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 1: the hunt for the next one just in case. Well, 469 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 1: it's it's a very interesting question. I think you're dealing 470 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: with two different situations here, apples and oranges. The apple 471 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: is can you get them done on a long term deal? 472 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: That's that that that works for you financially, and and 473 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: it has to work financially because everything else that the 474 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: team does financially flows from that um both expenditure of 475 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: cash and and financial chemistry. You know, if if if 476 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: a quarterback, who everybody in the locker room knows, it's 477 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 1: just an average guy, gets thirty million dollars, all of 478 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: a sudden, you and I are sitting next to each 479 00:28:55,240 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 1: other unlocker is going, what what just happening here? I've 480 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: better call my agent. If he's worked thirty million one 481 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: of my worth, that's financial chemistry, and there's there's a 482 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: lot of that that that um, that goes on, so 483 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: you have to worry about that. And then the other, 484 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: of course, is the expenditure of cash and the cap. 485 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: The beauty of the cap from the standpoint of ownership 486 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: is that it doesn't forgive, and it doesn't forget. You're 487 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: gonna pay for your mistakes. UM. So that's one part 488 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: of it. The other part of it is that, Um, 489 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: you may have heard this from John Butler. We always 490 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: told our scouts every years the new year, we're looking 491 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: for everything. Every year, we're looking for the best football 492 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: players we can get. We're going to try and accumulate 493 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: as many draft choices that we can get and and 494 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 1: if it's a quarterback, so be it. And then Ron 495 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: Wolf always said, and he was absolutely right, draft a 496 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: quarterback every second year or so, no more than three 497 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 1: years apart, so that you're you're backed up and you're 498 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: ready to go if something happens. Unfortunately for us and 499 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: our last year in Indianapolis, we weren't prepared to do 500 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: that and and we and we paid the price for it. Um. 501 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: That's interesting. There's another team build a thing that I've 502 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: I've just noticed and I always wanted to ask you about. 503 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: Is you appear to be okay with investing in a 504 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 1: running back in the draft? Um, your history suggested you 505 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: will take a running back in the first round and 506 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: you're okay with where there are a lot of people 507 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: on the outside that are like, oh, you can find 508 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: one later in the thing. Uh, look at all the 509 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: teams that are doing it. Just talk a little bit 510 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: about your philosophy when it comes to the running back 511 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 1: position and whether you would just rather draft one high 512 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: and just kind of ride him out and then draft 513 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: another one high, or draft him and then pay him 514 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: when it comes time to kind of pay pay the 515 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: bill at the end of his contract. Well, let's put 516 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: paying aside, because that becomes another that's another issue. Drafting 517 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: is the key issue. What I draft one? Of course, 518 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: during James Joseph, Yes, and they they're great players. And 519 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: during the Hall of Famer, if if that player Barry 520 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 1: Sanders say Kwan Barkley, I mean he keep naming him. Um, 521 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 1: Christian McCaffrey, if he's a game changer by all means, 522 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: take him. Why would you not want a game changer 523 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: just because he plays running back? I don't understand that 524 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: you can give him the ball thirty times a game 525 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: in the run game of the passing game. Why would 526 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: you Why would you want a lesser player in that 527 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: position when you could get a game changer. So that's 528 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: always been my philosophy. If the guy's a game changer, 529 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: take him and don't look back, and be happy to 530 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: get him. So go ahead, you know. So, So that's 531 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: where he gets money because you says it's it's an 532 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: apples to Orange his conversation, drafting them and paying them, 533 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: because the conversations on the outside, they kind of diminished 534 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 1: the value of the running back. But when we're talking 535 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 1: about building a championship team and to come into number 536 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 1: with your teams, you always had a marquee running back, 537 00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,719 Speaker 1: a guy that could get it done. So where is 538 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: the lack of evaluation or appreciation from the running back 539 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: coming from. I don't know. I honestly don't know. None 540 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: of it makes sense to me because I see Barry Sanders, 541 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: I see Thurman Thomas. I mean we got he was 542 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: the first round pick. Obviously we got him in the 543 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: second round because of the injury Um Edger and James 544 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: Um Todd Gurley. I mean you know, keep naming him. Now, 545 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 1: if you're if you're in a Shanahan offense, I get 546 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: that because the design to that offense uses running backs 547 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: who have a special skill set, which is one cut 548 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: downhill run through. Linebackers don't run around them. Um. And 549 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: and that's great. I mean, if that gives them an advantage, 550 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: they can they can use that money in that draft 551 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: slot on someone else. Um. But you know, the average 552 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: career length if you play two years in the NFL 553 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: is six you get if you draft a running back 554 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: in the first round, you have it for six years, 555 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 1: five years on the contract, in one year on a 556 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: franchise tag if you'd like to use it. And that's 557 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 1: about the length of his career. So you have to 558 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 1: be ready to recycle those guys. But I I wouldn't 559 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 1: pass the game changer under any circumstances. Now, whether you 560 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 1: pay him or not at the end of five years 561 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 1: or six years is another question. That's that's entire and 562 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: the odds are pretty good that you would not, you know, 563 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: because they don't have long careers. There's they take a 564 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: lot a lot of hits and and they wear it down. 565 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: So uh, that would that's a different question. And that's 566 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 1: hard to let a great player go like that. I mean, 567 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 1: it broke my heart to let Edger and go, and 568 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 1: we probably kept them one year too long in all 569 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: honesty if you looked at it from a purely, purely 570 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 1: dollars and cents standpoint, But he meant so much that 571 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: the team that we didn't want to let him go. 572 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: But that that's the orange part of it. The apple 573 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: is part of it. I'd take him again in the 574 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 1: heart beat. No, that's that's great because you really cleared 575 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,360 Speaker 1: up something because not only did you um kind of 576 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,359 Speaker 1: talk about the philosophy of the running back and how 577 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 1: they're important, but then you also talked about from a 578 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 1: data and metrics standpoint, like, look, average career two years, 579 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 1: but it stretches out the six where that matches up 580 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,320 Speaker 1: with the first round contract basically, so it makes sense 581 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,879 Speaker 1: to take the best player in the first round, ride 582 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 1: him all the way out, and then at the end 583 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 1: of the deal look for the next one because the 584 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: odds suggest that he's not going to be able to 585 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 1: sustain that level of play. UM last thing, on the offense, 586 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,720 Speaker 1: you talked about wide receivers and number one wide receiver 587 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 1: and the number one wide receiver has to be able 588 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: to beat all comers coverage, double coverage, elite corners. The 589 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 1: number one really has to be a true number one. 590 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: Explain explain it a little bit. Well, he's gonna have 591 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: enough size to withstand a lot of punishment because you're 592 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 1: gonna get him the ball a lot. Um. Second, he's 593 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,760 Speaker 1: gonna have enough speed to make plays down the field. 594 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 1: It's hard to it's hard to play with a speed 595 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:10,839 Speaker 1: deficient wide receiver, and and and be very consistent. And 596 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: if he's if he's a one, he's going to get 597 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 1: the ball a lot. You know. The quarterback, as you know, 598 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: trust wide receivers. That's a chemistry position. They've got to 599 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 1: trust each other and and and they do develop chemistry 600 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:28,879 Speaker 1: with certain receivers. So um, and there are always anomalies. 601 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,880 Speaker 1: I mean, Michael, Michael Irvin didn't run real well, but 602 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 1: he did other things exceptionally well. Um. But most importantly, 603 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 1: he's got to be able to separate against man the 604 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: man coverage type man a man coverage and press, and 605 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:49,359 Speaker 1: his hands have to be totally completely reliable. He has 606 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 1: to have those two things. If he doesn't have those 607 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 1: two things, the likelihood of success and certainly the likelihood 608 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: of being a number one for a championship team is 609 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 1: not good. It's funny. I was listening to your podcast, 610 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: the Insight Football Podcast with Bill Poleon and UH. I 611 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 1: was listening to the series Life of a Scout and 612 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 1: you were talking about that, and you were talking about 613 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,279 Speaker 1: how you broke the percentages down for wide receivers. They 614 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 1: had to be a ninety plus percentage catch rate for 615 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 1: them to be on the board, and they had to 616 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 1: have all these things universal characteristics and traits and and that. 617 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 1: So it's interesting that you brought that up because it's 618 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,799 Speaker 1: kind of a time tested theory in terms of being 619 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 1: able to catch the ball and being consistent in those things. 620 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 1: And now with the metrics, because you seem like you're 621 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 1: one of the first to embrace uh they call it 622 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 1: analytics now we call the metrics or data. It seems 623 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,359 Speaker 1: like you guys were on the forefront of being able 624 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 1: to do that. When it comes to receivers, how do 625 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,239 Speaker 1: you track that? Would you have your guys kind of 626 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:50,799 Speaker 1: track their catch rate throughout this? Absolutely? Yeah, absolutely, Back 627 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,360 Speaker 1: in the Buffalo days when we didn't have all the 628 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,280 Speaker 1: computer capability that we have now, Yes, we had every 629 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: scout track everybody's catch right throughout, and you can get 630 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 1: it off the tape. Now it's much easier to do. 631 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 1: You can have it. You know, an intern do it. 632 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 1: But but the bottom line is that you better they 633 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:12,799 Speaker 1: better be able to catch the ball, and they better 634 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 1: be able to do it consistently, and they better be 635 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,959 Speaker 1: able to do it in the crowd. And Tom Moore, 636 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 1: the great offensive coordinator for US in Indianapolis, who's still 637 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:28,280 Speaker 1: coaching in Tampa Bay, who's a he's a football philosopher 638 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 1: and he and he says things so clearly and concisely 639 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,680 Speaker 1: that sometimes you will snap your head back. But we 640 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: were talking in the draft about a wide receiver and 641 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: somebody said, you know, he can really run and he's 642 00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 1: good and he can separate. Now the hands need work, 643 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,359 Speaker 1: but we can develop his hands. And so I said, 644 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: what what's his catch ratio? So somewhere around seventy nine 645 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: or seventy nine somewhere in there. And Tom said, we 646 00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: have the most accurate quarterback in football. Would we want 647 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:06,040 Speaker 1: to give him somebody who can't catch? I mean makes 648 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,840 Speaker 1: since just through I mean, it's so true when we 649 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 1: talk about development, like there's only a small level of 650 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:14,920 Speaker 1: development in certain areas that a guy can improve on 651 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 1: when they get to the pros and so UH, in 652 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,239 Speaker 1: a way, I kind of believe like a guy is 653 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,359 Speaker 1: what he is and how does it fit. I heard 654 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 1: you on your podcast talk about prospects are fifty percent 655 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 1: of those universal characteristics highway speed, UH, quickness, agility and 656 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 1: balanced explosiveness, aggressiveness, UM, competitiveness, all of those things, and 657 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 1: then it's how they fit into the scheme. Taking that 658 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: because of your success drafting pass rushers Bruce Smith and 659 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,759 Speaker 1: Dwight Freeny and all those guys, what are the core 660 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 1: characteristic that you look for in those guys that are 661 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 1: hunting the quarterback? Well, it isn't size, because nobody could 662 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 1: be more disparate than Bruce Smith's and Dwight Freeny. They 663 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:57,640 Speaker 1: weighed about the same, but the height differential is about 664 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:02,720 Speaker 1: five inches and the arm length parential is pretty good too. UM. 665 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,840 Speaker 1: Robert Mathis, of course was also on the on the 666 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 1: short sides six one or so and and really in 667 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:15,480 Speaker 1: the two five range. So the key is get off quickness, 668 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:19,480 Speaker 1: first step quickness. Can you beat an offensive tackle off 669 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:23,799 Speaker 1: the ball with your first step quickness? That's critical. And 670 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,040 Speaker 1: go back to what Dante Scarnec had told me about Brady. 671 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 1: He was checking to make sure if Rainy had beaten 672 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,400 Speaker 1: the offensive tackle on the first step, the ball was 673 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:37,879 Speaker 1: coming out of Tom was going somewhere else. So first 674 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 1: step quickness is critical. Get off. Secondly, um, can you 675 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 1: translate speed into power because really good offensive tackles, as 676 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:52,279 Speaker 1: you know, we'll get to the junction point, and they'll 677 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,640 Speaker 1: get to the junction point, maybe sooner than you do, 678 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,840 Speaker 1: or certainly in tandem with you, and at that point 679 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:04,360 Speaker 1: you have to be able to translate that speed into 680 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 1: power and blow through them to the quarterback. That's critical 681 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,520 Speaker 1: because if you can't, you'll just stick to them like 682 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:19,000 Speaker 1: velcro and they win. Um, So get off. Translate speed 683 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: to power, and then the ability to change direction, because 684 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,480 Speaker 1: if you can't change direction, you're a one trick pony 685 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 1: as a Russia or all you've got is an outside 686 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:32,160 Speaker 1: rush and maybe an arm over. If you can change direction, 687 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,480 Speaker 1: if you can spin, if you can if you can 688 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,640 Speaker 1: head fake and change direction and go under and things 689 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,359 Speaker 1: like that, then you've got a repertoire that makes it 690 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 1: easy for an offensive tackle to handle. And I suspect 691 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 1: that most fans really don't know what goes into um 692 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:57,600 Speaker 1: preparing each week. But the offensive tackles keep books on 693 00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:01,560 Speaker 1: the on the rushers. Just like pictures keep books on 694 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:06,440 Speaker 1: hitters in baseball and vice versa, the rushers keep books 695 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:11,040 Speaker 1: on offensive tackles. So you gotta have those three things. 696 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 1: Get off the ability you know, to power through and 697 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,799 Speaker 1: and and change the direction. If you've got that, you've 698 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,480 Speaker 1: got a chance to be pretty good. You've been very 699 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,520 Speaker 1: generous of your time. I have two more questions for you. 700 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,920 Speaker 1: One of those is coming off of your pass rusher thing. 701 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,600 Speaker 1: You mentioned about offensive tackles, and it used to be 702 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:32,879 Speaker 1: in yesteryear there was a distinct left tackle and then 703 00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,800 Speaker 1: kind of the plugger, pounder, maller brawler played at right tackle. 704 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,960 Speaker 1: When now we're seeing more teams deploy their pass rushers 705 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 1: and that left defensive been spotted that left outside linebacker 706 00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,839 Speaker 1: spot to really expose him against the right tackle. Now, 707 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,880 Speaker 1: when you look at offensive tackles, is there any difference 708 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,560 Speaker 1: between what you're looking at right and left because you're 709 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:59,080 Speaker 1: talking about athleticism for the right tackle. Yeah, I think 710 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:03,040 Speaker 1: it's the differences minuscule, you know, I remember looking at 711 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,959 Speaker 1: Mike McGlinchey at Notre Dame. My son's on the staff there, 712 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,279 Speaker 1: and and I looked at me and I said, you know, 713 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:12,600 Speaker 1: he's he's gonna be I think a pretty good left tackle, 714 00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:14,920 Speaker 1: but I'm not sure he's powerful enough to be a 715 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,880 Speaker 1: right tackle. He plays right tackle and he does pretty 716 00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,319 Speaker 1: tired well and went to the Super Bowl. Because what's 717 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:25,640 Speaker 1: happened now is that so many people have spread the field. 718 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:27,960 Speaker 1: We play in fifty three and a third yards now. 719 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:33,239 Speaker 1: The run game is in many respects zone heavy, So 720 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,799 Speaker 1: you don't have the double team kick out anymore. You 721 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:39,960 Speaker 1: don't have to post up a defensive lineman, you don't 722 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:41,680 Speaker 1: have to do things in the run game as an 723 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 1: offensive tackle that you used to do in the days 724 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:49,680 Speaker 1: of power. Um. Not everybody uh his zone oriented, but 725 00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:53,000 Speaker 1: great many of them are. And and sixty of the 726 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,719 Speaker 1: time you're facing nickel because you're in three watchs. That's 727 00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,600 Speaker 1: just that's the metric. So if out of the time 728 00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:05,080 Speaker 1: you're you're performing one skill as opposed to some other skill, 729 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,359 Speaker 1: why would we spend a lot of time worrying about 730 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,360 Speaker 1: the other skill. You better be able to pass, rush, 731 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,759 Speaker 1: pass block. Excuse me, because at the time the likelihood 732 00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:20,080 Speaker 1: as you're doing that, and and so now you're really 733 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:25,600 Speaker 1: looking for past blocking as the number one criteria for 734 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:30,040 Speaker 1: an offensive tackle. If he can't set and move his 735 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,680 Speaker 1: feet and do all the things you want to tackle 736 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:37,000 Speaker 1: to do, UM, it's hard for him to play. UM. 737 00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,080 Speaker 1: You mentioned something because I know you're an avid baseball fan, 738 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 1: and it's funny that you you mentioned that. I heard 739 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:43,759 Speaker 1: that on your podcast. I've heard you kind of talk 740 00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:47,080 Speaker 1: about baseball references. When I played for Dick Gerron and 741 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,000 Speaker 1: Jacksonville h he talked about building a football team is 742 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:51,279 Speaker 1: just like building a baseball team. You've got to be 743 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,120 Speaker 1: all championship teams in every sport. You gotta be strong 744 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,360 Speaker 1: right down the middle. And you mentioned a spot that 745 00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,960 Speaker 1: I feel like it's been a little devalued, the safety position, 746 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,640 Speaker 1: the free safety and strong safety with Jamal Adams kind 747 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:05,960 Speaker 1: of having his impast with the Jets and those things. 748 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 1: Can you just talk about the value of having um 749 00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:11,919 Speaker 1: a game change, a big time playmaker at safety, whether 750 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 1: it's free safety or a strong safe. Yeah. Ironically enough, 751 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,200 Speaker 1: Thick was a professional baseball players. You probably know he 752 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,680 Speaker 1: played in the Red Sox Change. As well as being 753 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:26,480 Speaker 1: a great running back. Uh. The the strong safety position, 754 00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,759 Speaker 1: I think is one that is becoming more and more 755 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,560 Speaker 1: important in this game because the more we see the 756 00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:38,399 Speaker 1: athletic quarterback and the more we see the option come 757 00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:42,799 Speaker 1: into the game, which didn't exist what six years ago, 758 00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:47,840 Speaker 1: five years ago, we now have to have a player 759 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,920 Speaker 1: in the secondary who could either run the alley. I'm 760 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,000 Speaker 1: not a big fan of running the alley, by the way. 761 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:57,000 Speaker 1: I think it's just too far for anybody to go. 762 00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,240 Speaker 1: I don't care what it's Bob Senators or Troy Paula 763 00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:04,359 Speaker 1: mallo her that's a mismatch against Lamar Jackson. I'd rather 764 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,040 Speaker 1: not have him in the alley. So you need to 765 00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:10,319 Speaker 1: have him close to the line of scrimmage. Who can 766 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:17,080 Speaker 1: covering zone, who can cover a slot in man and 767 00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:23,640 Speaker 1: and press a slot it's necessary, and absolutely take quarterback 768 00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:28,920 Speaker 1: or pitch and and be able to tackle uh Lamar 769 00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:35,680 Speaker 1: Jackson in space or tackle Cam Newton in space in 770 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,880 Speaker 1: order to play solid defense. Because now it's eleven on eleven. 771 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:41,960 Speaker 1: It's not eleven on ten anymore the way it used 772 00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,719 Speaker 1: to be in the run, certainly in the run. So 773 00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:50,839 Speaker 1: who is that guy, Well, it's Simmons from Clemson. And 774 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:52,640 Speaker 1: I think we're going to see more and more of 775 00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,560 Speaker 1: those guys coming into the league because the colleges have 776 00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,719 Speaker 1: to deal with that just as we do now. Bill 777 00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,080 Speaker 1: Parcels used to say we're captives or what the colleges 778 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,520 Speaker 1: send us. Well, the colleges are sending us quarterbacks who 779 00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,560 Speaker 1: can run the option and throw like like the you 780 00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:12,840 Speaker 1: know they had the man with the Golden arm and 781 00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:18,040 Speaker 1: and so what they're gonna send us strong safeties? I 782 00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:23,840 Speaker 1: think who can play that role? And I've said I was, 783 00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,800 Speaker 1: you know, for good and for ill. I think Simmons 784 00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:28,880 Speaker 1: is a strong safety. He's not a lineback. He's a 785 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:32,279 Speaker 1: strong safety in the modern modern game. And if you 786 00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:34,600 Speaker 1: want to play him back as Clemson did at times 787 00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,640 Speaker 1: they played him back deep and covered two, that's great too, 788 00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:41,480 Speaker 1: and that's a bonus. But if he can do those 789 00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:44,359 Speaker 1: things around the line of scrimmage and still play good 790 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:48,560 Speaker 1: zone defense, I think that guy is invaluable. Hey, this 791 00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,120 Speaker 1: is this has been great. Um, it's gonna be like 792 00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:53,840 Speaker 1: a graduate degree. And Scotty, I've heard a bunch of 793 00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,360 Speaker 1: different things from everybody. I felt like I've got a 794 00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,239 Speaker 1: bunch of philosophies. Uh, second hand, so they have. Our 795 00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,239 Speaker 1: opportunity to off to you has been fantastic. And the 796 00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,359 Speaker 1: one thing you mentioned on your podcast, you mentioned that 797 00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:06,640 Speaker 1: in Indian after this, your goal was to try and 798 00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:10,480 Speaker 1: have your draft board with a hundred or fewer prospects. 799 00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:14,800 Speaker 1: I think on the outside people would say that's absolutely crazy. 800 00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,560 Speaker 1: Why did you want it so skinny? Why did you 801 00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:19,680 Speaker 1: want to go so thin? If you could get it 802 00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:21,920 Speaker 1: that way, Yeah, we never quite got there, but it 803 00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:24,200 Speaker 1: was it was an aspirational goal. We'd end up with 804 00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:28,320 Speaker 1: a hundred five hundred seven something like that. Um bottom 805 00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,400 Speaker 1: line is we want wanted the bar to be very high, 806 00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:35,239 Speaker 1: and we wanted to be very sure. You've probably heard 807 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:37,560 Speaker 1: Tony Softly, by the way, he was a great scout 808 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,400 Speaker 1: and a great administrator, say this. You want to be 809 00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,920 Speaker 1: wrong for the right reasons. If we're wrong, let's be 810 00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:49,359 Speaker 1: wrong for the right reasons. Let's know everything about this guy. 811 00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,640 Speaker 1: Let's make sure that we know that he checks every 812 00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:57,080 Speaker 1: box for us. Let's don't be in a position where 813 00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:00,120 Speaker 1: we shrug our shoulders and say, okay, well we like 814 00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:02,560 Speaker 1: him a little bit. Oh, let's put him in the 815 00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,359 Speaker 1: seventh round, or let's put him in the sixth round. 816 00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:10,440 Speaker 1: Um h, it's just to me that just muddied the waters. 817 00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:14,440 Speaker 1: Be sure about everybody, and and and you can't. You 818 00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,880 Speaker 1: can't be sure about two hundred players. You can't be 819 00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:21,600 Speaker 1: sure about a hundred fifty players. Some of those are throwings. 820 00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:25,240 Speaker 1: So we didn't We didn't want to waste the choice necessarily. 821 00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:29,840 Speaker 1: So the more information we could have, the smaller the 822 00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,640 Speaker 1: board was, the better we felt we could manage it 823 00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:34,560 Speaker 1: on draft day, and we did a pretty good job 824 00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,120 Speaker 1: of that because it is with fewer names up there, 825 00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:39,680 Speaker 1: it's much easier to manage, to make trades and zero 826 00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,520 Speaker 1: in on people. So that that part of it was 827 00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:47,640 Speaker 1: just part of our philosophy. Um, because we felt like 828 00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:51,280 Speaker 1: the fewer names we had, the more we knew about 829 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:53,799 Speaker 1: each guy. I love it. Thanks so much. One thing 830 00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:55,600 Speaker 1: is for certain, you're one of the best we've ever 831 00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:59,080 Speaker 1: done it. From the evaluation standpoint, everyone should pay attention 832 00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:02,960 Speaker 1: to your podcast Inside Football Podcast, would Bill Poland. It 833 00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:06,760 Speaker 1: is a master's degree in the evaluation and team building process. 834 00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:09,680 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us. I love the conversation. 835 00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:14,319 Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Mr Poland. Thanks it's my pleasure. Okay, 836 00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,480 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say this, uh first hand I've learned so much, 837 00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,920 Speaker 1: uh from Mr Polian on the outside, A lot of 838 00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:24,520 Speaker 1: contacts and cross kind of like we cross paths like 839 00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:27,520 Speaker 1: at different times. In Buffalo, they talked about him. He 840 00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:29,520 Speaker 1: was well revered for the way that he built that 841 00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:33,080 Speaker 1: team in Buffalo and Carolina. There are a lot of 842 00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:36,040 Speaker 1: scouts who kind of remained from when he was there, 843 00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,680 Speaker 1: and he built that franchise from the ground up, and 844 00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:41,960 Speaker 1: you know, to have the conversation with him about team 845 00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:46,440 Speaker 1: building and quarterbacks and the way the scouting process works 846 00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:50,880 Speaker 1: was outstanding. Hopefully you guys enjoyed that conversation because I 847 00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,640 Speaker 1: know that I learned a ton. Hopefully you did as well. 848 00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:56,120 Speaker 1: So that's gonna do it. For the show, be sure 849 00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:58,399 Speaker 1: to check out the Moody Sticks TV Show, which will 850 00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:01,960 Speaker 1: air on NFL Network six pm Eastern. Also, we have 851 00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:06,280 Speaker 1: re airs on Friday at four pm, eight pm midnight 852 00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,600 Speaker 1: and Saturday at four am and eight am Eastern. Be 853 00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:11,800 Speaker 1: sure to tune in next week for the baseball shows. 854 00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:16,000 Speaker 1: We're sitting down with Cubs general manager Jed Horrier, Miami 855 00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:20,200 Speaker 1: Marlins manager Don Matteleie, hall of famer John Smoltz, and 856 00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:22,920 Speaker 1: many many more to kind of talk about the crossover 857 00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:26,200 Speaker 1: between baseball and football, and the team building process. Also, 858 00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:28,680 Speaker 1: the video portion of the Mail Tucker interview would be 859 00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:32,319 Speaker 1: available soon on YouTube and NFL dot com. Be sure 860 00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:34,960 Speaker 1: to download the Mood of six podcast at Apple Podcast 861 00:50:35,200 --> 00:51:00,920 Speaker 1: or your favorite podcast app, Talk four t