WEBVTT - Bonus: The Making of The Pay Check 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:08.520 Hey Jackie, Hey Rebecca. So, now that it's been a 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.719 few weeks since we wrapped the season, how are you feeling. Yeah, 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:16.720 so I am still digesting everything we did over eight episodes. 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:20.000 You know, it was a lot of work, but we're 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:24.720 not quite done yet. Last week at the Bloomberg Business 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:28.120 Week conference, you and I sat down and talked about 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:31.720 the making of the season, everything from how it came together, 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:36.879 the high points, the challenges, and the reactions. Yeah, we 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:40.080 really went behind the scenes about our thought process, favorite 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:43.279 episodes and moments, and we ended on what's bubbling up 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:46.640 now that could maybe even be potential for a fourth season. 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:49.920 It was fun and we figured we'd turned it into 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:53.960 a bonus episode for you, So here it is. We 0:00:54.080 --> 0:01:04.080 hope you enjoy the conversation. Um. So, for the first 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:07.600 two seasons of The Paycheck, I did it solo, and 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:11.839 we started the very first season with a personal story 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:14.440 of mine. The first season was about the gender pay gap, 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:19.199 and my mom actually fought a gender discrimination lawsuit. So 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:21.640 when we decided we wanted to switch gears to the 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.880 racial wealth gap, I wanted to bring on a co host, 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:27.920 and I wanted someone who could bring something personal to it. 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:31.520 And I certainly couldn't do that on my own. So 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:36.000 immediately her name came up, as you know, a very 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:39.560 impressive high ranking journalist in the news room. Um, but 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:41.840 I didn't know if you would be into it. You're 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:43.920 very busy. I didn't know if you wanted to get 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:46.319 into the weeds of a podcast. So I want to 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:48.920 know how you felt when we reached out to you 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:53.760 to take on the show. Honestly, it felt like you 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:56.720 were all asking for my hand in marriage. But it 0:01:56.800 --> 0:02:00.840 took me literally a nano second to reply salute, let's go. 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:02.640 I mean, I didn't really give it a lot of 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:06.640 thought because to me, in spite of how busy I 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:09.240 am and we're all busy, um, this is a deeply 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:13.239 important topic. It's a topic that was really sort of 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:17.040 sweeping the country, the world, and you know, just the 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:20.440 idea of being involved in it in the minute, Um, 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:23.120 it made a lot of sense. So yeah, in a heartbeat, 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:26.239 the answer was yes. I thought that was really cool 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:29.519 and everyone should know that Jackie like took this incredibly 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:33.480 seriously and I mean really did so much work and 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:35.720 it was amazing to work with you on it. Yeah, 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:38.119 And so I mean, Becca, have the fact that you've 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:40.880 done three seasons and you know, as you explained, the 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:45.400 first two focused on the gender gap. Can you just 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:47.839 give views a little bit of a sense of why 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:51.200 we decided to go to the racial wealth gap this time. Yeah. 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:54.000 So we had actually planned a third season on the 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:57.800 gender pay gab and we had started production and then 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:02.440 the pandemic happened, so we put that on hold. And 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:05.600 when we went to revisit the series and you know, 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:07.799 get back going again, we just looked back at what 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:09.960 we thought we were going to do and it just 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:13.000 didn't make sense. It didn't work. The world had changed, 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:17.720 you know, pandemic revealed inequalities, it created new inequalities, and 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:20.200 it was also the summer and the country was in 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:23.640 the middle of these massive racial justice protests, and it 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:26.880 just made complete sense to us to look at a 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:31.440 different inequality statistic. And the racial wealth gap was, you know, 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:35.360 demanding our attention at that time, so we decided to 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:37.200 dive into that and I think it I think it 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:41.000 worked really well. Yeah. So the beginning of season three 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:45.680 starts with a really power full personal story that you 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:55.240 tell about your family. My dad talked less and less 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.760 about the land, but he never gave up on it, 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:01.320 and one email I got from him, he says, I'm 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:04.160 certain of one thing. If that property ever pays off 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:07.680 in Texas, we are out of here to someplace other 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:12.280 than Mexico. I have no idea what he meant by Mexico, 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:15.880 and I never got a chance to ask. He got cancer, 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:19.000 and while sick, a cousin reached out to see whether 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:20.839 I could get him to sell some of the land. 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:25.480 How did you decide that you wanted to explore your 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:29.600 own history and passed as part of the show. Yeah, 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:32.080 so we talked about it um a bit, and I 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:34.760 think actually you remembered it better than I do. But 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:36.680 it was one of the planning sessions and one of 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:40.720 the calls we were doing. I mentioned, by happenstance that 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:44.680 my family owned land in East Texas that we no 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:47.440 longer own, and that this land was acquired in the 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:51.800 late eighteen hundreds and passed on in a very sort 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:57.960 of messy way that black families in that era acquired land. 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:01.200 So a little bit of slice here, liver there, and 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:04.040 that's basically how it came together. And you know, ultimately 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:07.359 we lost that land, but you know, just knowing that 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:11.799 the how wealth in America is a mass. It's usually 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:14.599 through inheritance, and a big part of that equation is 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:19.400 land and property. So it did make sense, make sense 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:22.680 when I thought about it, to pull in my family's 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:26.640 history and my family's story and sort of tie it together. 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:29.680 But you know, to be honest, I needed to push Um, 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:33.520 it's really hard to kind of think about unraveling your 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:37.200 own family history. It's very complicated. Record Keeping isn't what 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:41.080 it was what it is now, especially for that demographic 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:44.400 back then. Um. But ultimately, once I got into it, 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:48.200 I got into it. Yeah. I remember we were just like, oh, 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:50.640 I've just reported up, Like it'll work out. I knew 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:53.760 that you would get something good and useful if you 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:57.359 just used your reporter skills. But I do want to know, like, 0:05:57.400 --> 0:05:59.920 how was that process for you as a journal as 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.880 kind of trying to dig things up versus you know, 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:06.960 a person who's digging into and learning about your family's 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:10.320 really difficult past. Yeah. Well, I mean I think that 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:14.000 you know the history of black people in America, it's 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:16.359 a it's an ugly history, and it's one of the 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:19.120 reasons why people have a hard time, you know, like, 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:21.159 let's just move on you know, we don't really want 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:25.480 to talk about this. It's ugly, it's messy, and it's personal. 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:27.960 And I didn't mention this earlier, but you know, one 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:30.280 of the reasons I was so compelled by the project 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:32.479 is that I knew we would look at this and 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:34.719 sort of the way we do at Bloomberg. So we 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:38.360 would look at it with facts and data and statistics 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:42.880 and numbers and sort of you know, like really had 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:45.880 that lead the narrative versus sort of a purely emotional 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:48.960 one that said, it's very emotional. So I found out 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:51.680 things about my family I did not know about, you know, 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:56.360 family members who you know, died in childbirth, plowing fields 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:58.960 and sort of losing land and losing you know, sort 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:01.599 of racist incidents that they would come across. And yeah, 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:03.480 I mean there were times I was doing my research 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:05.920 and I burst out in tears, you know. So it's 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:09.120 it's it is deeply personal, and you know that combined 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:11.240 with the fact that you know, you're looking at your 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:16.120 own country's history and through this optic and with the family, Yeah, 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:18.080 it was a bit kind of overwhelming at times, but 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:20.600 I'm still glad I did it. What did you, Becka? 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:23.600 You know, again, given the fact that you've seen us 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:26.200 through three seasons, what did you find was the most 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:30.040 challenging part of digging into this theme. Yeah, I come 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:33.600 out of from a really different place, um, and I think, 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:36.720 you know, I consider myself an expert on the gender 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:39.480 pay gap at this point, having done all this reporting 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:42.760 and then we were just switching gears into something. Definitely 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:44.640 I feel a little bit less comfortable with as a 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:49.280 reporter a journalist, so having to definitely feeling like, you know, 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:51.920 I could be an expert for the listener. I really 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:53.720 wanted to make sure we got this right. So that 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:57.320 was the first challenge, And then the other challenge is that, 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:01.240 of course racism at any quality exists in lots of 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:04.280 different forms all over the world, but it is a 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:06.880 very specific to the u S story what we were telling, 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:09.480 and so making sure that people who were outside the 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:11.800 u S could understand it. But then when we also 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:15.160 did episodes that were global, we had an episode in 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:20.040 the UK, like trying to understand the way racism manifests 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:22.720 there and explain it to a US audience. I think 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:26.640 that was one of the most challenging parts for for me, 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:38.040 just like as an editor and a journalist, What would 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:43.520 you say was something that you UM learned through the 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:46.880 show that you you know, had never learned before, Like 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:49.760 that was something new that we had dug up. So 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:52.120 there's there's a lot of things I learned because you 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:54.559 know a lot of this is not UM taught in 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:59.760 history books. But the thing I took away amongst many things, 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:03.040 but was the unsung heroes that appeared in the in 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:06.920 the different narratives. So for instance, episode three features a 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:11.000 black farmer who struggled to obtain credit to keep his 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:14.160 farm going, and he experienced racism in that process and 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:19.000 challenged a federal agency basically set up to help aid farmers, 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:22.439 you know, from which he and his demographic had been excluded. 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:26.640 Fifty dollars to struggling in farmer who has no money 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:29.720 is a real shot in the arm up. So it 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:32.560 did help. Did he give the land back? No? Was 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:35.800 it enough settlement to to make all of the discrimination 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:39.200 go away from U SDDA to answer is no? But 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:41.680 did it help the people who got the money? Absolutely? 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:44.840 You know, he took a legal challenge and I learned 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:49.120 about that. I learned about I was very touched by UM. 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:53.920 A character we bring into the season CALLI House. You know, 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:57.880 a black woman in the late eighteen hundreds who had 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:01.880 multiple children was seemed stress and she was one of 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:05.040 the first people to put the idea of reparations on 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:08.720 the table. She was jailed for it. Um. She ultimately 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.920 died without seeing sort of the outcome of that initiative. 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:14.520 But you know, all the things that she did are 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:17.160 still ringing true today if you look at some initiatives 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:21.440 going on right now around reparations and just acknowledging our past. 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:24.959 So the real thing that I took away and learned 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:27.000 from it was just the things I didn't learn as 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:29.800 a as a as a school child about my own 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:33.880 history and the people who were unsung heroes in it. Yeah. 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:37.160 I think John Boyd the Farmer, actually talked about that 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:41.320 in the episode how he won this really huge racial 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:45.720 discrimination case but feels like it's really overlooked. Um. And 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:48.080 that's something that came up in the finale too, with 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:51.400 Claire Setteth who talks about not learning about any anything 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:54.640 in school. And so I hope the other listeners get 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:56.439 that out of it too. Well. What about you, I mean, 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:58.520 what was your what did you learn that you didn't know? Yeah? 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:03.640 Mine's like definitely wonk here. Um. I was really like 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:07.480 enlightened by just the learning. You know, I think I 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:12.640 understood that slavery made people very rich. I understood that, 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:16.040 but um, hearing that Marsha Bratra and talk about it 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:19.000 as a system of capital that you could you know, 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:23.040 you could take out loans on it and make yourself 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:27.079 richer if you own slaves. That was an asset on 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:30.719 which you could gain leverage to buy more stuff. And 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:33.360 that's how you get rich, is you have assets that 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:36.120 produce wealth and then you can get more credit based 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:38.680 on those assets. And I just had never really thought 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:41.480 about it in that way. And then we also talk 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:44.040 about housing in the same way about I think one 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:46.679 of the people we talked to said, I hope that 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:49.440 is right. Most people start their own business by taking 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:52.680 out collateral on their houses, and so it's not just 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:54.800 like your house is gaining in value and you have 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:58.520 that security, but it's like this ability to build something 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:01.679 more and how black people have you know, we're first 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:03.959 their bodies were used that way, and then later we're 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:06.560 left out of other ways. So that was that was 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:11.439 probably the most enlightening thing to me, right, And it 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:14.079 was there, I mean was there anything that really shocked 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:19.000 you that you were like, wow, I mean, I mean 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:21.480 that's a good question. I don't know if I don't 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:23.240 know what the right answer is to that, because it's 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.600 also this is a cop out, but it's all really shocking. 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:30.080 It's very um and it's just shocking, like how it 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:33.840 perpetuates itself. It's like, again, I think people think of 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:37.600 slavery is something that happened a long time ago, and 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:41.640 that is true, but it just continues to perpetuate on itself. 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:43.520 And I think that was something you season one with 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:47.079 the gender bag up too. It's like these little seeds 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:52.520 get planted and then you can't just forget that that happened. 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:56.880 They grow and you know, create new any qualities. What 0:12:56.880 --> 0:13:02.440 about you? Um, everything shocked me from start to finish. 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.600 I think when we did the math uh An episode two, 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:08.920 and we actually you add up the value of human 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:12.560 life and human capital, I think that when you think 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:17.520 of the you know how the system is basically built 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:21.760 on the backs of people. The economic value of the 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:26.120 four million slaves was an average of a thousand dollars 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:33.559 per person, or about four billion dollars altogether. The banks, railroads, 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:38.120 and factories in the United States all put together well 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:42.240 worth about three and a half billion dollars. It's something 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:44.920 that you have to actually pause, you know, many many 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:47.360 times over and then you see how that sort of 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:51.520 perpetuates itself across history and over the different episodes, and 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:53.760 you know, when you're looking at you know, the question 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:56.480 of reparations, or you're looking at what happened in England 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:59.679 with wind Russian immigration and how that you know had 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:04.720 an packed you know in a different, similar but different way. Um, 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:08.079 it's sort of that self perpetuating and you know, kind 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:11.520 of knock on effect that this basic you know, event 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:15.200 of enslaving people. That's that's the thing that it's just 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:18.280 it never really leaves you. I have to ask, um, 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:22.280 but what was your favorite episode? I don't like to 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:25.760 pick favorites among my children, as I say, but um, 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:30.640 episode one, I just loved it. I felt like episode 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:34.640 first episodes always the hardest because it needs to be gripping, 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:38.760 but also set the scene and do a lot of work. 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:40.840 And also I think you get in your head about it. 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.320 I do. I got mad about it, but I think 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.960 we got there and I think your story was so 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:51.120 well done. It just was very subtle in a way 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:54.480 for people who haven't listened that I think is difficult 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:57.320 to pull off and effective, and then just set us 0:14:57.400 --> 0:14:59.800 up for the rest of the season. We weave Jackie's 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:02.560 store right in and other episodes, so I also really 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.360 liked that we did that, um so episode one, and 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:08.760 then the other episode I really stayed with me and 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:13.040 I really liked was episode six, which was our first 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:16.480 reparations episode about reparations in the US, and I liked 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:19.320 that for a lot of reasons, but one reason I 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:22.320 liked that we looked at this reparations scheme and Evans 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:25.760 still Illinois. That's happening right now, and I think a 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:28.600 lot of our episodes are historical or look back, and 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:30.880 I thought it was really cool that we had something 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:33.840 going on right now that, you know, as we were 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:36.200 making the show, news was happening, and I think that's 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:39.680 always really cool. And it also I think changed, you know, 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:42.480 I think my perspective on reparations was changed a little bit, 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:45.800 like the solutions to all these things were made more 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:49.840 complicated for me after doing the show, which, um you know, 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:52.600 nuance is a hard thing to accept, but it's there. 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.760 So those were my my two favorites. What about you. Yeah, 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:59.680 I mean, like you, Um, we love all our children equally, right, Um, 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:01.640 But I mean it would be kind of strange advice 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:05.200 that I didn't like my own family's story, even though, 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:07.840 like you said, it was very subtle, um, And it 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:10.960 was sometimes frustrating because there are things I just didn't 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:13.960 figure out in the end, Like I don't know exactly 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:18.200 how my family ultimately got the land. I mean, I 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:21.240 got the d thanks to a listener who sent it 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:24.080 to me. But you know, there were so many like 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:28.880 pockets of holes in this story that that said, Um, 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:31.400 you know, like it very much was the context of 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:33.440 what we were trying to achieve to explain the gap, 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:35.440 and so it really did, I feel set the scene. 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:39.040 The other thing I think, um, is I really liked 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:42.960 the Claire's story the finale, and I thought it was 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:46.800 the perfect sort of juxtaposition to my story. So you know, 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:50.520 you've got you know, the black family, UM coming out 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:52.880 of slavery trying to build wealth, and you've got her 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:57.000 family UM discusses from the perspective of a descendant of 0:16:57.040 --> 0:17:00.440 a slave owner. Um. I I love. I thought that 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:04.359 was a perfect you know bookend to the entire series 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:07.320 because you know, you have these different perspectives. And what 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:10.199 I really liked about her episode, because I had the 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:14.359 pleasure of interviewing her multiple times for it, was, you 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.640 know that she could really articulate, you know, this process 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:23.040 of understanding how her you know family owned slaves, and 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:26.280 you know, even the idea that potentially her great great 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:29.880 great grandfather, you know, impregnated as slave. And she goes 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:33.119 through that process of sort of discovering like all of 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:37.600 these nuances and historical moments and and sort of relating 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:42.840 it back to the present. And so someone that I'm 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:46.040 connected to today is connected to someone is connected to 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:54.199 someone who did love someone who owned slaves. And I 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:59.320 think that is something that I've actually never really articulated 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:05.720 before and also something that I think is necessary for 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:08.440 us to understand. There seems to be this feeling that 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:20.640 in admitting your past wrongs here somehow admitting that everything 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:22.840 about you in the past, or everything about your family 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:27.360 in the past is bad and terrible. You know, when 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:31.320 she talks about her ancestor you know, writing you know, 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:36.040 the Mississippi Constitution to basically forbid blacks from taking part 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:39.520 in voting. Well, there's some remnants of that sort of 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:43.639 happening in and she sort of connects the dots. She 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:46.360 also talks about history and the fact that she never 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:49.879 learned like me, I didn't learn a lot of these 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:53.640 these historical facts, a lot of these unsung heroes. So 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:56.119 I think that there was a lot of connectivity between 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:59.960 the two stories, and it's two American women sort of, 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:03.639 you know, basically having a voice on the topic. I 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:05.520 thought it was those are I have to say my 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:14.919 probably my two favorites. We have some questions to we 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:17.640 take some questions, you know, let's do other people's questions. 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:21.520 The first question asked is in a single parent household, 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:25.720 is it more difficult to create and retain generational wealth. 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:29.879 I mean I would say yes. And one of our 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:32.240 episodes does hit that when we talk about the tax 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:34.320 code and we have, you know, a character in the 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:37.520 series who basically a woman who owned her home and 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:40.280 she happens to be a single parent um who's now 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:42.720 having to rent her home because she lost that property 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:45.960 because of you know, basically the tax system was not 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:50.680 even an equal Yeah, I feel left behind. I feel 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:54.359 left behind. And then and then well last year to 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:59.239 learn that I was over taxed by five thousand. It 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:03.240 makes me s it, it makes me depress, it makes 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:06.360 me feel like a failure. I mean, that's one example, 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:11.000 but it does not help you don't have different partner 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:14.200 or people to to to help you, um in that situation. 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:17.000 For sure. It's one example. What do you think? Yeah, 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:20.560 I think the thing we learned or I learned through 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:23.719 this was that wealth is something that builds over time. 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:28.640 And so you know, your circumstances right now certainly can 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:32.199 help you. But also it really matters what circumstances you 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:34.440 came from. So it's kind of hard to answer that 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:37.640 question because there could be a single parent who inherited 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:39.600 a lot of wealth, or a single parent whose family 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:41.679 helped them put them through school, or you know, I 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:46.080 think it's more it is generational. Um, So that's my answer. 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:49.719 All right. This one's for Jackie. What did your family 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:52.160 think about this series? That's a really good question. There's 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:55.600 a good question. What did my family think? You know, 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:58.199 it actually took them, some of them a bit of 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:01.440 time to sit down and listen to it, you know. Um, 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:05.680 But when they did, I think that they, like me, 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:10.760 were pretty emotional about it, because again, you know, it's 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:13.199 part of the reason why I can't watch films like 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:17.879 Mississippi Burning or documentaries about civil rights era. It's painful 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:21.720 to watch, you know, any demographic, you know, one from 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:26.960 which you sprang to have that kind of hard look discussion. 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:29.160 You know, it's easier to turn on like a comedy 0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:31.960 series or something. But so I think they put it off. 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:38.159 But their reaction ultimately was, um, joy again, you always should, 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:42.479 when possible, put a voice to your narrative. Um, you know, 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:46.199 just speak up again, make it fact based, you know, 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:50.040 teach and and basically you know, have a voice. So 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:53.200 ultimately they were the reaction was pretty positive. So our 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:55.720 final question was actually going to be our final question 0:21:55.760 --> 0:21:57.960 to each other. So I'm glad you guys asked it. 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:01.040 Which is what topic will you explore for your next season? 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:04.920 I can take this one. We don't know yet, um, 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:10.639 but I think having now shifted away from this idea 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:13.479 of the gender pay gap as being what we focus 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:16.400 on for this year's we've opened ourselves up to exploring 0:22:16.440 --> 0:22:21.720 any wealth inequality or any inequality statistic, and so I 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:23.840 think that's really exciting and freeing because we can go 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:25.680 a lot of directions with us. One idea that I 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:29.680 was discussing with Jackie is maybe we've been very US focused. Um, 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:33.280 maybe there's some sort of global inequality statistic we can 0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:36.000 look at. But um, we just finished the season, so 0:22:36.080 --> 0:22:38.159 I'm going to need a little bit of a break 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:43.879 to think about it and rest up. Yeah. I agree. 0:22:45.080 --> 0:22:47.640 I want to go global um to the degree we can. 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:50.600 I think it's important, particularly in a recovery year and 0:22:50.640 --> 0:22:53.879 looking at the annemus of the recovery around the world. 0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:01.400 Thanks so much for for being here, and please listen 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:05.639 to the show you haven't already rate, subscribe, Thank you 0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:15.960 if you want even more paycheck. Bloomberg's Quick Take team 0:23:16.119 --> 0:23:19.000 made a video adaptation of our series, which you can 0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:24.879 find at bloomberg dot com slash qt. Some people they 0:23:24.920 --> 0:23:27.760 just got fired and they have no idea why some 0:23:27.800 --> 0:23:31.240 people were detained losing access to healthcare. How many have 0:23:31.400 --> 0:23:36.280 been detained as prisoners in their own culture? The historical 0:23:36.359 --> 0:23:41.240 injustice has never been addressed. Ending an injustice is not 0:23:41.359 --> 0:23:44.000 the same thing as making up for its enduring effects. 0:23:44.560 --> 0:23:48.960