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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And we are back with Daniel Burke who's joining us

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Speaker 2: live from his home base in Dublin, Ireland. He's a poet, author,

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Speaker 2: researcher and the brand new book is Telepathic Tales, Precognition

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Speaker 2: and Clairvoyance in Legend, Lyric and Lore. Before the break, Daniel,

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Speaker 2: I was asking you for a specific example, let's say,

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Speaker 2: of an historical figure. In this case, I think you

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Speaker 2: were discussing a playwright. It was basically changed forever by

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Speaker 2: some sort of a vision or crisis apparition. I think

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Speaker 2: this In this case, it was a crisis apparation, wasn't

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Speaker 2: it correct?

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Speaker 3: And there are so many examples of this through history

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Speaker 3: and with Belasco, it was this experience which kind of

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Speaker 3: instantiated his belief in ghosts in the first place, his

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Speaker 3: belief in an afterlife, and furthermore, he implemented aspects of

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Speaker 3: the experience into the play. And this is something that

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Speaker 3: we see through history too. With Shaw's Pig Maley and

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Speaker 3: another famous play. He had an experience in which he

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Speaker 3: claims to have visualized his wife in a dream long

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Speaker 3: ahead of their meeting and this is something surprisingly still

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Speaker 3: commonly reported today, and some aspect of that experience was

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Speaker 3: also implemented into the play. And these are these kinds

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Speaker 3: of impacts are kind of culturally relative to some degree,

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Speaker 3: because you know, in some cases, such as with the

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Speaker 3: Vardoga for example, the reaction is often not necessarily surprise

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Speaker 3: in certain cultures where it is expected to be the case. However,

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Speaker 3: again in some of these cases in the West, for example,

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Speaker 3: with these crisis operations, I think they're one of the

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Speaker 3: kind of overlooked areas which may have kind of brought

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Speaker 3: about belief in and afterlife in the first place, these

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Speaker 3: kinds of experiences, and this is kind of shown through

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Speaker 3: the types of accounts that you were asking for, because like,

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Speaker 3: for example, in nineteen eighteen, there was a very well

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Speaker 3: documented crisis account in which somebody called Missus Pointer received

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Speaker 3: the details of the death of a loved one the

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Speaker 3: appearance of an apparition of her brother Leslie at the

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Speaker 3: very moment it turned out that he had died at

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Speaker 3: a distance. Now her quote is, this is one of

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Speaker 3: the things that makes me know there's a second life.

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Speaker 3: And that's nineteen eighteen. But like somewhere in the realm

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Speaker 3: of one hundred years later, we have the very same

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Speaker 3: experiences imparting the same kinds of profound effects. In Melvin

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Speaker 3: Morris's work on near death experiences, and after an apariginal

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Speaker 3: encounter with her father at the very time of his death,

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Speaker 3: she claims that this dream, this Christ's apparition, this vertical

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Speaker 3: experience in which her inner world happened to correlate with

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Speaker 3: the outer world. And that's the main thing here, that's

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Speaker 3: the main surprise, in the main mystery. This is something

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Speaker 3: that actually saved her life. And quote unquote, now she

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Speaker 3: knows for sure that the soul continues. So these are

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Speaker 3: a profound experience, says another one, quote unquote from a

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Speaker 3: hospice nurse. All of this has convinced me that there

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Speaker 3: has to be something more after this life. So I

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Speaker 3: would say, whatever your view is on these experiences, whatever

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Speaker 3: your view is on the anecdote in general, or the

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Speaker 3: capacity to kind of extract meaningful truth from history, okay,

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Speaker 3: these are experiences which are greatly impacting the individual psychologically,

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Speaker 3: their entire worldview, and therefore they demand very, very much

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Speaker 3: more attention.

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Speaker 2: Your previous book was Crisis Apparitions, so you've studied crisis

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Speaker 2: apparations extensively before, and now you've included even more in

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Speaker 2: this new book, which would lead me to suspect perhaps

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Speaker 2: this is personal for you. Have you had experience a

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Speaker 2: crisis apparitions.

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Speaker 3: It's very interesting because I will say this, when I

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Speaker 3: began research for this book, none of my conscious impetus

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Speaker 3: was an experience of that kind. I myself at the

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Speaker 3: time wouldn't have considered myself necessary, or at least I

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Speaker 3: wasn't thinking about the fact of myself having had an

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Speaker 3: experience of that kind. However, those kinds of experiences have

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Speaker 3: been throughout my family for many years, and like my grandmother,

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Speaker 3: for example, would very like, very kind of, very solemnly

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Speaker 3: tell us of her experience, which was that when she

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Speaker 3: was lying on her bed at night watching television, relaxing,

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Speaker 3: her dead brother William walked into the room very simply,

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Speaker 3: very somberly. And that's something about these experiences is that

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Speaker 3: they're very much unembellished. They're not the chain clanking ghosts

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Speaker 3: of literature. Okay, they're not the kind of contrived ghost

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Speaker 3: stories that skeptics like to think that people have fun

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Speaker 3: making up. Okay, these are total and serious his tones

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Speaker 3: to people that are trusted, and he took his hat off,

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Speaker 3: made the very simple gesture of a bow and said

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Speaker 3: the very simple words Mary, which is my grandmother's name,

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Speaker 3: and then the simple words it's Holly, which was her

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Speaker 3: daughter's name. Okay, a few moments later, the phone call

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Speaker 3: came that my grandmother's daughter had been killed in a

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Speaker 3: car crush. Oh damn. Yeah, and that is something that

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Speaker 3: I hadn't thought of. This is what's interesting in relation

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Speaker 3: to your question. I hadn't thought of that experience until

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Speaker 3: maybe a year into the research for the book that

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Speaker 3: actually recalled that experience. And yeah, so there are other

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Speaker 3: experiences in my family, but I won't go through them

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Speaker 3: all unless you want to hear another one. I would

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Speaker 3: be happy to relate at least one more.

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Speaker 2: I would love to, But I'd love to hear another one,

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Speaker 2: and another one and another one. But before that, you

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Speaker 2: just said something that's very interesting. Well, everything you're saying

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Speaker 2: is interesting, but you hadn't something at it was in

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Speaker 2: the family. You knew the story, and that you even

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Speaker 2: though you're writing a book about it, you hadn't thought

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Speaker 2: about it. Something triggered that memory, and it's you know,

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Speaker 2: if something was in the family like that, you would

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Speaker 2: think it would be like the topic of every conversation,

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Speaker 2: you know, every time a family gathered. Remember, you know

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Speaker 2: what happened to Grandma and so forth. Well, something happened

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Speaker 2: to me like that. This was just I think I've

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Speaker 2: told the story before. Well, it was not a crisis apparition.

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Speaker 2: But after the day my father was buried a few

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Speaker 2: years or a few days into nineteen eighty seven, he

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Speaker 2: died New Year's Eve, nineteen eighty six, and I saw

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Speaker 2: my doppelganger hovering above me. And then years later when

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Speaker 2: I started to get into you know, this arena and

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Speaker 2: talking about the paranormal and stuff, and people would say, well,

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Speaker 2: is anything ever happened to you? You know, and I said, no, nothing, nothing.

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Speaker 2: I had completely blocked it out. And then I had

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Speaker 2: to think. And then one day I realized, you know,

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Speaker 2: like slap my fore ahead, what am I thinking? I mean,

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Speaker 2: that was at the time, it was, it was life altering.

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Speaker 2: I saw my doppelganger hovering above me. How, I mean,

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Speaker 2: how do we how do we shut those things out?

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Speaker 2: Why do we do that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's an extraordinary experience, I mean, and you're it's

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Speaker 3: so interesting, isn't it, Because you're saying, like, really, this

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Speaker 3: is something that's like you've you saw your own doppelganger, Like,

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Speaker 3: how how could that not retain a place of importance

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Speaker 3: in my mind like such that I would keep speaking

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Speaker 3: about it, et cetera. It's so interesting how that's the case.

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Speaker 3: And then with my experience too, like how is it

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Speaker 3: that that's not something that I that came to mind,

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Speaker 3: either to inform the research or earlier on in the research.

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Speaker 3: It's so interesting? And yes, again, how is how are

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Speaker 3: these not topics of conversation around the kind of you know,

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Speaker 3: did the dinner table, et cetera. I mean, maybe to

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Speaker 3: some extent more superfluous kind of soup, if I can

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Speaker 3: use that term here, not to belittle anyone's experience, but

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Speaker 3: more kind of culturally accepted ghost stories may be told

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Speaker 3: in that regard, you know, like hunters or I saw

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Speaker 3: something in a window here or there. But yeah, these

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Speaker 3: are these experiences, as as we can see from some

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Speaker 3: of those quotes that I mentioned, like, these really are

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Speaker 3: and they can be very they can very much reorient

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Speaker 3: the individual's entire sense of their place in the cosmos

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Speaker 3: and what the nature of that cosmos is, and what

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Speaker 3: is the relationship between me and that and death and life,

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Speaker 3: and like what does this mean? So to some extent,

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Speaker 3: it's hard enough to talk about those questions to each other.

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Speaker 3: So if the experience is so strongly tied to those

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Speaker 3: kinds of existential questions which can bring on ease to

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Speaker 3: some extent, I can see why they aren't necessarily spoken about,

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Speaker 3: if only from that perspective, But certainly, of course one

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Speaker 3: of the main reasons would be, you know, the unwillingness

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Speaker 3: to share something so outside the realms of accepted daily reality,

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Speaker 3: and the unwillingness to kind of take the flack of

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Speaker 3: the you know, criticism of others, including loved ones. And

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Speaker 3: this actually, this actually is something that comes out in

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Speaker 3: the anthropology and ethnology too, because you will often see

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Speaker 3: these accounts kind of hidden away in the note sections,

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Speaker 3: or if I could find the reference. I mean, there

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Speaker 3: was one kind of anthropologists who's not only did he

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Speaker 3: kind of hide an experience he had the experience for example,

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Speaker 3: when he was going to meet an African tribe of

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Speaker 3: when he met them, when he met one of the

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Speaker 3: individuals there, the leader, he realized in that moment, oh,

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Speaker 3: this is the same person that I saw in a

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Speaker 3: dream like two nights ago. How interesting now he hid

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Speaker 3: that account away in the back of them in the

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Speaker 3: note section of his book, even though it was very

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Speaker 3: clearly an interesting and relevant anomaly to his work. And

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Speaker 3: it's not just that he hit it there. He actually

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Speaker 3: specified that the reason I hid it there is because

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Speaker 3: I didn't want to kind of incur the wrath of

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Speaker 3: my colleagues. And I think that really sums up why

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Speaker 3: these things are kind of less spoken about and kind

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Speaker 3: of special to the individual.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's one thing too decide you're not going to

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Speaker 2: speak about it, and I didn't except for a few

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Speaker 2: family members. I told them what had happened. But it's

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Speaker 2: another thing to completely shut it out of your own mind,

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Speaker 2: which is what happened to me for many, many years.

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Speaker 2: And I'm wondering maybe it's I don't know, self preservation,

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Speaker 2: a defense mechanism. Maybe I, deep down I didn't believe it.

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Speaker 2: Do you think you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, literally, do you consciously shut it out or did

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Speaker 3: you kind of realize years later that maybe I'm surprised

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Speaker 3: that I haven't thought about this as much as I

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Speaker 3: should have.

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Speaker 2: It's the latter I was surprised. Had I mean, I

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Speaker 2: remember at the time it had totally rocked my world,

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Speaker 2: and why wouldn't it? And then through the passage of time,

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Speaker 2: I just forgot about it. How do you forget something

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Speaker 2: like that? I don't know, But now I think about it,

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Speaker 2: you know, probably a couple of times a month and

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Speaker 2: then and since then, I've had other experiences. I won't

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Speaker 2: go into now because I'm more interested in what you

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Speaker 2: have to say. But okay, so tell me more about

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Speaker 2: some of these. You know, in the family crisis apparitions

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Speaker 2: you shared the one about your grandmother. What else have

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Speaker 2: you got? I absolutely will.

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Speaker 3: Do you mind if I speak a little more to

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Speaker 3: that point too, very quickly, first, if that's okay, please

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Speaker 3: about your experience, because I think it's very interesting. One

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Speaker 3: of the main reasons possibly at these experiences such as yours,

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Speaker 3: when you realize you think back years later and say, wow,

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Speaker 3: why haven't I thought of that for so long? It's

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Speaker 3: the problem is that, at least for a lot of

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Speaker 3: us in the Western world, there really isn't a framework

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Speaker 3: within which to kind of place it. There's nowhere to

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Speaker 3: very easily contextualize it. There's no cosmology to easily kind

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Speaker 3: of appeal to in order to just kind of casually

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Speaker 3: put this experience away like every other experience that we

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Speaker 3: may casually put away, like a dream, for example. But

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Speaker 3: this isn't the case all over the world. And that's

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Speaker 3: again speaking interestingly to these kind of relative reactions. Just

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Speaker 3: as a very quick example for our return to your regression,

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Speaker 3: a very quick example would be, like these experiences, it's

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Speaker 3: that I mentioned of dejah reve the individual may not

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Speaker 3: only dream a person ahead of time, but a place.

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Speaker 3: For example, one may come upon a place and this

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Speaker 3: isn't again, this isn't deja vu, This isn't oh I

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Speaker 3: feel like I've been here before. This is somebody who

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Speaker 3: very specifically knows they dreamed of this place before, or

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Speaker 3: envision before, and in some cases actually recorded this in

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Speaker 3: their journal before having arrived there. Now, my point is

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Speaker 3: that excuse me that it can be very challenging for

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Speaker 3: us to easily place that kind of in any kind

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Speaker 3: of reasonable context where we can understand it. So we

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Speaker 3: place it kind of in the back of our minds.

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Speaker 3: But for somewhere, for example, in South Indonesia, among the

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Speaker 3: Tarajian tribe, for example, Okay, they have true dreams called tindo,

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Speaker 3: and those are considered real experiences in which the actual

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Speaker 3: spirit or mind of the individual may attain accurate and

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Speaker 3: legitimate information. Why because it's it's simply understood that many

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Speaker 3: of the individual's life be foreshadows and dreams. Why because

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Speaker 3: the spirit can leave the body. Okay, it will do

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Speaker 3: so at night. And therefore when you see somewhere that

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Speaker 3: you have never been before and recognize it, the simple

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Speaker 3: explanation for them is, oh, my spirit was here before.

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Speaker 3: Very simple. For us, we don't have that. And that

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Speaker 3: was just a little point I wanted to make because

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Speaker 3: it can be quite interesting to see those different cultural reactions.

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Speaker 4: Right, yeah, right, okay, yeah, back to your family. So

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Speaker 4: to be honest, yeah, there are multiple experiences here like

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Speaker 4: for instance, and in Ireland, actually in my home country.

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Speaker 4: These experiences do have something of a pedigree. Now, they

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Speaker 4: haven't been given great treatment overall, they haven't been really

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Speaker 4: paid enough attention to, but they do have a pedigree

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Speaker 4: and they do have a name. For example, here we

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Speaker 4: may call them, we may call it the fetch. These

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Speaker 4: are the these experiences of the fetch, which is kind

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Speaker 4: of the soul or spirit or double of the individual

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Speaker 4: which may turn up at death in order to kind

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Speaker 4: of let the individual no of its fate. Now regarding

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Speaker 4: my family again, like I my brother, for example, he

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Speaker 4: was on the bus.

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Speaker 3: This is many years ago now, and he was on

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Speaker 3: the way to school and he just very simply saw

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Speaker 3: one of our classmates walking his dog. And I wasn't

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Speaker 3: in school that day, and Norton, I was with my cousin,

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Speaker 3: and we knew something that he didn't know. And so

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Speaker 3: when he came back and just kind of told us, oh,

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Speaker 3: I saw such and such walking his dog today, Well,

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Speaker 3: we informed him that that person had actually died earlier,

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Speaker 3: sorry not early, that the previous day, and he had

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Speaker 3: no idea that that was the case. So we were

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Speaker 3: quite shocked to discover that he had seen that person.

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Speaker 3: And this is this before I move on to another camp,

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Speaker 3: this brings out something interesting. Like in the book, I

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Speaker 3: have a chapter called Revenance Rates and Disinterested Shades, And

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Speaker 3: that's something I really want to focus in on, is

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Speaker 3: that in these experiences, in these crisis operations, often it's

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Speaker 3: that simple. It's seeing somebody walking a dog, it's seeing

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Speaker 3: somebody going about their daily life. It isn't this vast

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Speaker 3: kind of psychologically complex, kind of embellished, culturally kind of

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Speaker 3: effaced message or meaningful, seemingly meaningful thing. It's just a

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Speaker 3: site of visual a sighting and then later some sort

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Speaker 3: of correlation with the external world.

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