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Hayley Paige: Welcome back to she Pivots. I'm Hayley Page.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Welcome back to she Pivots, the podcast where women share

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Emily Tisch Sussman: bold career moves and personal turning points that changed everything.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: I'm your host, Emily Tisch Sussman. From the time when

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Emily Tisch Sussman: she was a little girl, Today's guest knew what she

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Emily Tisch Sussman: wanted to be. When she grew up, Hailey Page knew

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Emily Tisch Sussman: she wanted to design wedding dresses, and she did it.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: By twenty five, she had her name on a bridle line.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: By her early thirties, she was a household name in

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Emily Tisch Sussman: the wedding world, a million followers on Instagram, a recurring

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Emily Tisch Sussman: fixture on Say Yes to the Dress Gown, selling in

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Emily Tisch Sussman: hundreds of stores worldwide, and well known for her romantic, sparkly,

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Emily Tisch Sussman: whimsical style. And then she lost it all, her name,

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Emily Tisch Sussman: her Instagram, her right to design wedding dresses, even her

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Emily Tisch Sussman: right to publicly call herself Hailey Page. Today's guest is

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Emily Tisch Sussman: somebody who had to fight in court for years while

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Emily Tisch Sussman: broke and locked out of the things she loved most

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Emily Tisch Sussman: to get her own name back. And then she used

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Emily Tisch Sussman: what she learned to start protecting other women from going

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Emily Tisch Sussman: through the same thing. This is Hailey Page and this

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Emily Tisch Sussman: is how she pivots. So what is your name and

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Emily Tisch Sussman: what do you do?

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Hayley Paige: I am Haley Page, and I am a wedding dress

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Hayley Paige: designer and the owner of a small business called she

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Hayley Paige: Ish of Aal and the founder of a nonprofit called

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Hayley Paige: a Girl You Might Know Foundation.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Where did you grow up? Tell us about little Hailey, like,

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Emily Tisch Sussman: what was your life like? What was your family like?

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Hayley Paige: He grew up in a really happy and hardworking family

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Hayley Paige: and the Bay Area of California gave so much love

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Hayley Paige: and creativity to my life and it was a really

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Hayley Paige: fun place to grow up. I have an older sister

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Hayley Paige: who is a producer, and I had a grandmother that

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Hayley Paige: taught me to sell at a young age, which was

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Hayley Paige: very helpful.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: What did your parents do And was that something that

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Emily Tisch Sussman: you and your grandmother was, like your activity that you

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Emily Tisch Sussman: guys did together.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it was.

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Hayley Paige: My dad is a general surgeon and he used to

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Hayley Paige: be in the hospitals and running rounds and doing all

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Hayley Paige: that kind of stuff with his patients. And so my

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Hayley Paige: grandmother used to knit and crochet blankets for the children's hospital.

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Hayley Paige: So she taught me how to sew and crochet, and

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Hayley Paige: so we used to do that as a fun project,

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Hayley Paige: and I got working with my hands very early in life,

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Hayley Paige: which I think ended up being helpful.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Yeah, you've said that you knew that you always wanted

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Emily Tisch Sussman: to be a wedding dress designer from a young age.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: That is specific. Was there a specific moment that made

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Emily Tisch Sussman: you think, yes, it's wedding dresses.

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Hayley Paige: For me, I think it's just the romance and the

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Hayley Paige: fantasy of it and being a classic girly kid of

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Hayley Paige: the nineties and loving Disney princesses. And I was a gymnast,

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Hayley Paige: so everything was a bit sparkly, and I really leaned

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Hayley Paige: into that and my parents encouraged it. So for me,

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Hayley Paige: the wedding dress kind of signifies this magical item that

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Hayley Paige: you get to wear and feel like a princess or

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Hayley Paige: feel like the main character or your own little celebrity.

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Hayley Paige: And I just let that meeting behind it and that

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Hayley Paige: it had this high craft to it. I had my

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Hayley Paige: own sewing machine, and I built this little room out

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Hayley Paige: of my closet and I used to make my own clothes,

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Hayley Paige: my prom dresses. They all kind of resembled wedding wear

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Hayley Paige: because they were either white or sparkly or full of tool.

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Hayley Paige: My mom's friends even purchased little items of things I

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Hayley Paige: would make, and so I kind of had a little

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Hayley Paige: bit of a business mentality early on. I have sketch

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Hayley Paige: books of years and years still in my original childhood bedroom.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Do you ever bring any of those designs back?

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Hayley Paige: No, definitely not. I mean you can definitely see the progression,

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Hayley Paige: not only in the quality of the designs, but just

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Hayley Paige: the illustration aesthetics that have evolved for me over the years.

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Hayley Paige: I will say I think the fact that my dad

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Hayley Paige: really encouraged me to sketch and draw, and we would

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Hayley Paige: do comic book stuff and architecture stuff. I think that

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Hayley Paige: really helped me want to bring illustration into my work

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Hayley Paige: as a designer as well, because you don't need to

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Hayley Paige: be a great illustrator to be a good designer.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: You were a serious competitive gymnast, practicing up to six

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Emily Tisch Sussman: hours a day. How did you manage that? Was it

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Emily Tisch Sussman: self determined discipline.

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Hayley Paige: I don't really know exactly where it came from. I

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Hayley Paige: would say my dad had a pretty focused work ethic,

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Hayley Paige: and so I saw that, and he really loved his job,

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Hayley Paige: was really passionate about it, and so for me it

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Hayley Paige: was easy to just be really focused on either design

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Hayley Paige: or gymnastics, because I liked both of those things. I

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Hayley Paige: would say it was a little bit of a lone wolf.

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Hayley Paige: I didn't have like a huge pack of friends or

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Hayley Paige: anything like that. I got to see my teammates in

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Hayley Paige: gymnastics and they were like my friends, and so you know,

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Hayley Paige: I really wasn't doing a lot of social activity. It

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Hayley Paige: did make me feel very purposeful. I guess from a

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Hayley Paige: young age. I actually come to realize that I am

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Hayley Paige: a very busy mind, and I like doing things, and

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Hayley Paige: I actually love working. It makes me feel good. So

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Hayley Paige: I've I've always just filled my time, and I'm somebody

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Hayley Paige: that really thrives when I feel like I have a

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Hayley Paige: lot to do. It feels like I matter. So for me,

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Hayley Paige: it's almost a privilege when you do feel a bit

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Hayley Paige: stressed or like, oh gosh, I needed in all these things.

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Hayley Paige: So I've kind of tried to keep that positive mindset.

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Hayley Paige: I tried to see it as, oh, look at all

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Hayley Paige: this stuff we have to do. I think that's probably

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Hayley Paige: the mindset that's helped me over the years.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: So you went to Cornell and you double majored in

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Emily Tisch Sussman: pre med and apparel design. Unusual combination.

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Hayley Paige: Yes, part of it was I didn't have a whole

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Hayley Paige: lot of confidence that I would become a designer. It

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Hayley Paige: just seemed like a little bit of a pipe dream,

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Hayley Paige: you know, wanting to become an actress or an astronaut,

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Hayley Paige: you know, just something that's a bit rogue in terms

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Hayley Paige: of how you get there unless your family is in design.

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Hayley Paige: But for me, my parents were both in medicine, and

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Hayley Paige: so I just didn't know how I would get there.

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Hayley Paige: So when I went to Cornell, I was actually touring

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Hayley Paige: the campus with my gymnastics coach and he was like,

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Hayley Paige: you can do anything in the world at Cornell. And

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Hayley Paige: he's like, if you could be anything, what would you be?

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Hayley Paige: And I said, I'd be a wedding dress designer. And

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Hayley Paige: he said, well, we have a fiber science program and

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Hayley Paige: I was like. What's that?

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Hayley Paige: And so's he mentioned that because I was interested in medicine,

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Hayley Paige: it was more of a formulaic path for me, and

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Hayley Paige: I thought I could get creative in medicine. He was like,

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Hayley Paige: you can basically blend these or do a double major,

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Hayley Paige: and so much of the curriculum overlaps, so I was

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Hayley Paige: taking a lot of science courses, just in terms of

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Hayley Paige: textile science. It actually kind of weaved nicely upun intended.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: You mentioned that your mom was also in medicine. What

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Emily Tisch Sussman: did she do?

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Hayley Paige: So she was actually a biologist, and she was my

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Hayley Paige: dad's TA in college, and they were both interested in

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Hayley Paige: becoming doctors, but they both couldn't afford to go to

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Hayley Paige: med school. So luckily they've kind of had this team partnership,

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Hayley Paige: and they decided that my mom would go work to

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Hayley Paige: pay for my dad's medical school, and so she actually

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Hayley Paige: paid for his med school in cash, and it was

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Hayley Paige: from working as a pit boss at Harrah's Casino. But

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Hayley Paige: to this day, I just I still see my mom

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Hayley Paige: as somebody who had a similar interest to my dad

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Hayley Paige: and would have probably done a very similar path. But

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Hayley Paige: she became an amazing mom to my sister and I

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Hayley Paige: and actually now she's part owner of my small business.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Amazing she had her own pivot. She did was that

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Emily Tisch Sussman: formative to her, to you that you saw her at

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Emily Tisch Sussman: the same intellectual and educational achievement level as your dad,

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Emily Tisch Sussman: but then couldn't continue in it.

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Hayley Paige: Absolutely, And when you become older, you get to look

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Hayley Paige: back on certain things and really appreciate them when you

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Hayley Paige: couldn't appreciate them at the time when we were growing up,

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Hayley Paige: my sister and I always felt so lucky that my

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Hayley Paige: mom was just such a powerhouse, Like she was always

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Hayley Paige: there for us. She came to every gymnastics meet, always

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Hayley Paige: showed up to anything I was doing. And you know,

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Hayley Paige: my dad was working a lot, but he also loved

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Hayley Paige: his job. He was saving lives, you know, and so

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Hayley Paige: it was this really interesting dichotomy. And then later in life,

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Hayley Paige: you know, my mom took more of a business interest

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Hayley Paige: in what my sister and I were doing, and it

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Hayley Paige: kind of naturally pivoted into being like the glue of

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Hayley Paige: the family and also a resource on the financial side

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Hayley Paige: of things. She's got a really good mathematical brain, and

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Hayley Paige: so it's kind of great to see that she is

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Hayley Paige: somebody who did sacrifice to become a mother and a

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Hayley Paige: great mother, but then also she found ways to get

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Hayley Paige: into entrepreneurship and business later in life. So I think

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Hayley Paige: that's a nice example to set for anybody that feels

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Hayley Paige: compromised by wanting to also have a family or feel

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Hayley Paige: like they're having to give up something for a temporary

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Hayley Paige: period of their life.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Yep, she was ready and able to jump back in

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Emily Tisch Sussman: in a different way once you guys were a little older.

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Hayley Paige: Yeah, absolutely, and it just kind of leaves the landscape

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Hayley Paige: open for possibilities at any point in your life. I

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Hayley Paige: would say one of the better things about my parents

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Hayley Paige: and instilling values is that they are both very adaptable

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Hayley Paige: and they always gotten over things fast, like any setbacks.

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Hayley Paige: Just those little things are very helpful.

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Hayley Paige: To apply to business in life as well, when circumstances

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Hayley Paige: throw something at you and you've got to dance with

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Hayley Paige: it or dance around it.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: I mean, that's the thesis of this whole show, that

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Emily Tisch Sussman: everything builds you to the next thing, and you never

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Emily Tisch Sussman: know what it's going to be, like the intersection of

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Emily Tisch Sussman: the personal and professional. You never know what the thing

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Emily Tisch Sussman: is going to be that builds you to your next phase. Yeah.

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Hayley Paige: Absolutely. And the fact that we're older now to appreciate

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Hayley Paige: what she did do for us, because I feel so

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Hayley Paige: lucky and privileged that I've had my parents as a

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Hayley Paige: support and an example my whole life. And it does

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Hayley Paige: create a very safe environment to take risks and to

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Hayley Paige: feel like if you do, in fact get out there,

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Hayley Paige: make a mistake and lose it all, that somebody's going

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Hayley Paige: to have your back. I mean that is a huge

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Hayley Paige: mental safety net. Yeah, we're going to talk about taking risks.

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Hayley Paige: Let's go to twenty eleven.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: You were working for JLM coutore, right, and then they

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Emily Tisch Sussman: offer you the chance to launch your own line in

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Emily Tisch Sussman: your name. I mean, what is running through your head

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Emily Tisch Sussman: when you get that offer?

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Hayley Paige: It was the dream in shining lights. And I had

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Hayley Paige: already developed a bit of my career in the industry.

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Hayley Paige: I worked for a company called Priscilla of Boston, which

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Hayley Paige: is an old heritage house of brands in the bridal industry,

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Hayley Paige: and then I got to work on a licensing deal

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Hayley Paige: with Marquesa. I had a pretty robust industry experience even

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Hayley Paige: prior to working at my former employer, jal M couture.

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Hayley Paige: And when I got that opportunity, I was twenty five

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Hayley Paige: years old. There was just this overwhelming excitement and awareness

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Hayley Paige: that I still was pretty young to be given an

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Hayley Paige: opportunity like that to lead my own collection, to see

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Hayley Paige: my name as the name of the collection. A big

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Hayley Paige: part of me just said, let's go for it. We

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Hayley Paige: will figure out anything else we need along the way.

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Hayley Paige: I don't want to lose this opportunity.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Right, I think the fear of not wanting to lose

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Emily Tisch Sussman: this opportunity very relatable across industries. And you've said that

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Emily Tisch Sussman: you didn't want to hire a lawyer when you signed

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Emily Tisch Sussman: that first contract because you didn't want to seem like

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Emily Tisch Sussman: difficult or lose that opportunity. So can you remember, like

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Emily Tisch Sussman: what the negotiation felt like? What were you telling yourself

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Emily Tisch Sussman: at that time?

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Hayley Paige: It wasn't so much that I didn't want to hire

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Hayley Paige: a lawyer. It's that I didn't have the resources financially

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Hayley Paige: at the time. And I also was told that any

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Hayley Paige: questions I had, I could get them answered. And there

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Hayley Paige: was also a bit of a rush because of the

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Hayley Paige: seasonality and that we you know, we're hoping to get

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Hayley Paige: this collection out in only two months. And I just

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Hayley Paige: really feel that you only know what you know, and

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Hayley Paige: then the more you know, you realize that you don't

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Hayley Paige: know a lot. I knew one thing, and it was

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Hayley Paige: how to design wedding dresses, and that I wanted this opportunity,

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Hayley Paige: and I really had my blinders up and thought that

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Hayley Paige: I would be protected at some point.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Well, I mean it did lead to your seeing your

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Emily Tisch Sussman: first collection, like you had those initial eleven pieces, Like

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Emily Tisch Sussman: do you remember a bride trying on one of your

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Emily Tisch Sussman: dresses under your name for the first time.

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Hayley Paige: Yes, actually it was in Denver, and I remember the

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Hayley Paige: first bride I ever sold address to on a trunk show.

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Hayley Paige: It's this really surreal experience. It is just this really

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Hayley Paige: unique way to connect to another individual. Yes, an artist

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Hayley Paige: needs a point of view, they need to create from

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Hayley Paige: a place that's really authentic from inside. But at the

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Hayley Paige: same time, there has to be a follow through.

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Hayley Paige: If the bride's not wearing the dress, if it's not resonating,

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Hayley Paige: the art really doesn't go anywhere, and so there is

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Hayley Paige: that collaboration or continuity.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: You became known for, like the sparkle and the whimsies.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Where did that aesthetic come from? It's just in the veins.

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Hayley Paige: It really is. I just like, I'm a very bubbly

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Hayley Paige: person and I have never shied away from being a

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Hayley Paige: girly girl. I love things that shine, I love texture,

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Hayley Paige: I love fashion, and I think a lot of the

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Hayley Paige: world tries to like this is so cliche, but dim

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Hayley Paige: your light or make you feel like because you like

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Hayley Paige: sparkly things, you're a child, or because I like unicorns,

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Hayley Paige: you know, like there's this immaturity to it, and I

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Hayley Paige: just don't care. I like what I like and I

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Hayley Paige: think there are a lot of women that feel the

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Hayley Paige: same way.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: You know.

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Hayley Paige: That's why I say keep whimsy in your pocket at

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Hayley Paige: all times and you're walking through wicked moments or circumstances.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Hailey liked having personal relationships with the bride she designed for.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: She felt connected to her work in a way that

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Emily Tisch Sussman: energized her and wanted people to know her and trust

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Emily Tisch Sussman: her as a designer and as a person. She started

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Emily Tisch Sussman: posting on a brand new app called Instagram, and people

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Emily Tisch Sussman: resonated with how she wanted to show up authentically online.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: After the break, we get into how Haley became a

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Emily Tisch Sussman: fan favorite on Say Yes to the Dress and how

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Emily Tisch Sussman: she built a million followers on social media. Be right back.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: You built a big following on Instagram. You're featured on

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Say Yes to the quite regularly. How did you develop

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Emily Tisch Sussman: a relationship with Cleinfield? Like which came first?

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Hayley Paige: So when I launched Hayley Paige the first time back

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Hayley Paige: in twenty eleven, it was kind of the same rigamarole

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Hayley Paige: of a B to B business. It's a wholesale brand,

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Hayley Paige: so stores will come and pick up the collection, and

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Hayley Paige: I was very fortunate to be in house the brands

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Hayley Paige: that already had existing distribution and relationships to these fabulous stores.

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Hayley Paige: Kleinfeld actually came first.

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Hayley Paige: I was at a trunk show and I got to

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Hayley Paige: be friendly with Ronnie Rothstein and Marra Rothstein, who are

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Hayley Paige: the owners. They really pay attention to experience their brides

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Hayley Paige: are having, and they noticed that I was building friendships

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Hayley Paige: with my brides and I was kind of approaching the

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Hayley Paige: process inviting address from a very friendly standpoint. It can

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Hayley Paige: be really overwhelming at times or intimidating to be a

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Hayley Paige: bride and be out on the floor, and so I

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Hayley Paige: think they noticed that and they invited me to come

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Hayley Paige: on the show and it was just a very effortless thing.

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Hayley Paige: The entire team was just so wonderful to work with.

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Hayley Paige: I'd never been on television aside from gymnastic stuff, and

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Hayley Paige: like that's totally different, But yeah, it was easy.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: During that time, you built a Instagram community and people

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Emily Tisch Sussman: feel very connected to you. So was there much of

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Emily Tisch Sussman: a separation between yourself and your creations on social media?

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Like how much was it integrated? Like was it you?

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Was it the brand?

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Hayley Paige: It was a huge extension of me and I had

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Hayley Paige: no idea what I was doing. Like most people, I

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Hayley Paige: did get Instagram very early. So I was an early adapter.

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Hayley Paige: I really experimented, and nobody knew what Instagram was going

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Hayley Paige: to become. And so I really grew with Instagram. And

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Hayley Paige: it was a really slow role, like it's not like

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Hayley Paige: I got on it, and then five months later I

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Hayley Paige: had millions of followers. It was day by day chipping away.

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Hayley Paige: Social media allowed me to kind of show up on

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Hayley Paige: my own terms, and so I really liked it. I

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Hayley Paige: responded to you as as many dms as I possibly

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Hayley Paige: could have over the years, you know, just made sure

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Hayley Paige: people felt acknowledged and that it was high. It's me

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Hayley Paige: on the other end, because I would say about five

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Hayley Paige: or six years in Instagram really started to become something,

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Hayley Paige: and you've noticed all these businesses were growing their brand accounts,

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Hayley Paige: And to me, that made me want to hold on

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Hayley Paige: to it even tighter because I wanted people to know

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Hayley Paige: that this was me, This is my account.

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Hayley Paige: What I'm saying up here is actually from me, and

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Hayley Paige: it allowed me to have my own narrative and also

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Hayley Paige: feel like people can reach me at any point. It's

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Hayley Paige: a wedding dress.

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Hayley Paige: I want you to feel connected to it, and I

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Hayley Paige: want you to actually feel like you know who I

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Hayley Paige: am and that there's a trust there. So I paid

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Hayley Paige: a lot of attention to it and really put the

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Hayley Paige: time in.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: When you say that you wanted to control your own

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Emily Tisch Sussman: narrative and you wanted people to feel like they knew

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Emily Tisch Sussman: about you, what is that narrative? What are those things

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Emily Tisch Sussman: about you you wanted people to know. I think I just.

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Hayley Paige: Wanted them to know who I was. And with wedding dresses, yes,

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Hayley Paige: of course, it is a dress that somebody is going

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Hayley Paige: to purchase. It transcends the material. It really has this

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Hayley Paige: emotion behind it and there's a deeper meaning, and I

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Hayley Paige: think that's what qualifies this personal attachment. Especially as the designer.

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Hayley Paige: I think when people kind of know a bit about

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Hayley Paige: my personality, it allows them to connect to the designs

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Hayley Paige: more freely in their own way. When somebody acts authentic,

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Hayley Paige: it gives you permission to act authentic yourself.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: In the middle of all of this, Haley does something

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Emily Tisch Sussman: extremely on brand for a wedding dress designer. She gets

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Emily Tisch Sussman: married and then a few years later she gets divorced.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: During this time, you got married and then divorced. So

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Emily Tisch Sussman: can you tell us about this chapter and how did

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Emily Tisch Sussman: you deal with this divorce? So publicly when you're still

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Emily Tisch Sussman: designing for other people's weddings.

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Hayley Paige: Yeah, there was a bit of shame that came with that, naturally,

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Hayley Paige: and I think a lot of people that go through

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Hayley Paige: divorce experience a similar feeling of loss and failure, and

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Hayley Paige: being a wedding dress designer kind of added a little

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Hayley Paige: extra unshine to it because oh, dang, you know, I

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Hayley Paige: didn't get it right the first time. But it also

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Hayley Paige: created a bit of realness and vulnerability to love stories

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Hayley Paige: in general. And we all have these expectations for ourselves

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Hayley Paige: and when life does not match up to those expectations,

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Hayley Paige: it can be hugely disappointing. I think that the response

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Hayley Paige: you have and the respect you have for yourself is

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Hayley Paige: so important. In those moments, I decided to share what

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Hayley Paige: was going on, not with respect to like airing any

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Hayley Paige: dirty laundry, but admitting that my first marriage had failed

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Hayley Paige: allowed me to really open up this vulnerability folder to

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Hayley Paige: people that had also experienced a breakup or a divorce

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Hayley Paige: or feeling this. Isn't it and I thought it was.

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Hayley Paige: And it's like, well, you're allowed to change your mind,

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Hayley Paige: or you're allowed to say this isn't serving me, or

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Hayley Paige: this isn't what we signed up for and it is okay.

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Hayley Paige: So it actually became the impetus for me in knowing

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Hayley Paige: that you don't just get one shot in life at anything,

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Hayley Paige: because that is the mentality I carried with me in

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Hayley Paige: rebranding Haley Page. It's just because it didn't work out

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Hayley Paige: once and something happened doesn't mean it won't happen again

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Hayley Paige: in a new, even better way. And there's a nice

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Hayley Paige: parallel between my personal life and meeting the love of

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Hayley Paige: my life Conrad, which you've been together almost eight years now,

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Hayley Paige: and then my rebranding of Haley Page.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: I think the balance is different for everyone about how

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Emily Tisch Sussman: much they keep personal and private and how much they share.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: How much do you feel compelled to share? Did your

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Emily Tisch Sussman: interactions change with your online community post divorce or as

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Emily Tisch Sussman: you were going through it?

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Hayley Paige: It just grew stronger in the right direction because at

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Hayley Paige: the time I did not feel like it was performative

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Hayley Paige: by any measure. Even in getting married and having.

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Hayley Paige: Part of my first wedding on Zias to the dress,

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Hayley Paige: it didn't feel like I was doing this just to

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Hayley Paige: get the attention. It fell authentic a white dress design

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Hayley Paige: are getting married and making these presses and it's so exciting,

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Hayley Paige: and then we're putting on the collection, and I want

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Hayley Paige: everyone to have the fairytale moment and feel like they

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Hayley Paige: can share it without being judged by it or feel

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Hayley Paige: like they're just seeking attention. But I would say that the.

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Hayley Paige: Divorce really added some dirt to my story and also

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Hayley Paige: gave me a little bit more of a backbone in

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Hayley Paige: knowing what is not right for me and being able

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Hayley Paige: to act on that and say respectfully for myself, No,

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Hayley Paige: that was empowering a lot of times. Now with social media,

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Hayley Paige: there is a tendency for people to trade integrity for exposure, and.

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Hayley Paige: You see it everywhere.

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Hayley Paige: Everybody is seeking attention in some way, and there's nothing

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Hayley Paige: wrong with that. We're human.

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Hayley Paige: But I feel like you can kind of tell on

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Hayley Paige: social media when somebody is being authentic. For the majority,

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Hayley Paige: I feel like people are showing up and sharing parts

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Hayley Paige: of their stories so that they can feel not alone

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Hayley Paige: and they can genuinely feel connected and empowered to move

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Hayley Paige: on with their life or continue on, so it can

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Hayley Paige: be really cathartic.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: In twenty nineteen, Haley's contract with alm Coutour the one

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Emily Tisch Sussman: she signed at twenty five without a lawyer because she

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Emily Tisch Sussman: didn't want to seem difficult was coming up for renegotiation,

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Emily Tisch Sussman: she didn't expect to lose her own identity. Instead, in

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Emily Tisch Sussman: December twenty twenty, she gets served with the lawsuit. She's

419
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:19,959
Emily Tisch Sussman: being sued for using her own name. Haley loses control

420
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,560
Emily Tisch Sussman: of her Instagram account, the one with over a million

421
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,080
Emily Tisch Sussman: followers that she had built on personal trust. She can't

422
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,520
Emily Tisch Sussman: use her name in business. She can't publicly identify as

423
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,159
Emily Tisch Sussman: Hailey Page. She can't design wedding dresses, the things she

424
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,040
Emily Tisch Sussman: had wanted to do since she was a child. We'll

425
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,440
Emily Tisch Sussman: hear about what this time was like for Haley after

426
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:54,399
Emily Tisch Sussman: the break. What finally made you say I need a

427
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,000
Emily Tisch Sussman: new contract, like I need to do this differently.

428
00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,600
Hayley Paige: It would be disingenuous to not admit that for a

429
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,560
Hayley Paige: long time, I knew that this moment was going to come,

430
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:07,119
Hayley Paige: that there was going to be an opportunity to renegotiate,

431
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,360
Hayley Paige: and I didn't really think of it as a negative.

432
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:12,520
Hayley Paige: I just said, at some point, we're going to have

433
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,320
Hayley Paige: to have this conversation to deal with it, because so

434
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:18,000
Hayley Paige: many circumstances developed over the almost ten year period that

435
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,800
Hayley Paige: I was designing Haley Page. The first time that didn't

436
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:22,080
Hayley Paige: exist at the time of signing.

437
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,119
Hayley Paige: And part of the reason I've become such a stickler

438
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:29,880
Hayley Paige: with contracts is that you have to build in software

439
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,399
Hayley Paige: upgrades in your contract because the world is moving so fast,

440
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:38,040
Hayley Paige: AI things are happening. Ownership is so important, and if

441
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,440
Hayley Paige: you don't give yourself those opportunities for checkpoints, unfortunately, you

442
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,159
Hayley Paige: start to set a precedent, and then that precedent can

443
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,080
Hayley Paige: actually be used against you in a court of law,

444
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,560
Hayley Paige: even if your intention. Was just to be a good

445
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:49,159
Hayley Paige: team player.

446
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,680
Hayley Paige: You know, and I'm speaking obviously very general about this stuff,

447
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,960
Hayley Paige: but it's it's just so important. I knew back in

448
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,080
Hayley Paige: like twenty fourteen.

449
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,320
Hayley Paige: Twenty fifteen that in a few years I was going

450
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,640
Hayley Paige: to have to show up with a team of lawyers

451
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,399
Hayley Paige: and figure out how to renegotiate my contract. I was

452
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,080
Hayley Paige: really just focused on wanting to build a great brand

453
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,040
Hayley Paige: and be aware of the impact or the wake I

454
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,119
Hayley Paige: was making. Technically, that was a very good thing. The

455
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,000
Hayley Paige: ignorance was a very good thing. But when the time

456
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,920
Hayley Paige: came to actually negotiate and I had to hire a

457
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,560
Hayley Paige: lawyer for the first time, and this wasn't until March

458
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:27,400
Hayley Paige: of twenty nineteen, it became very uncomfortable very quickly. Once

459
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,000
Hayley Paige: that kind of happened, I felt like, oh, well, in hindsight.

460
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,320
Hayley Paige: You know, and then you go back and you realize, oh,

461
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,280
Hayley Paige: I wasn't paying attention there, and oh I was too

462
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:38,280
Hayley Paige: busy over here, And unfortunately, it just really became very

463
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,399
Hayley Paige: painfully apparent that I had set myself up for a

464
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,320
Hayley Paige: very very uncomfortable situation. And I really take full accountability

465
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,280
Hayley Paige: for it, because how can you not. I signed the contract,

466
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,840
Hayley Paige: I built this brand, I was doing all of these things.

467
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,679
Hayley Paige: And that was also part of my survival in that

468
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,600
Hayley Paige: I had to freaking take ownership for it and still

469
00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,439
Hayley Paige: try to get out of it somehow. I mean, I

470
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,600
Hayley Paige: had no che but to defend myself right. Ultimately, the

471
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:06,239
Hayley Paige: contract I had originally signed was so broad that it

472
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,000
Hayley Paige: really cast a very wide net on my ability to

473
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:14,520
Hayley Paige: create anywhere, like not just in the wedding world. And

474
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,680
Hayley Paige: the problem with the fact that my name was trademarked

475
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,960
Hayley Paige: from the beginning of that contract is that there was

476
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:25,080
Hayley Paige: language in the intellectual property section of that where I

477
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,760
Hayley Paige: essentially had no right to my name at all, like

478
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,560
Hayley Paige: not even in just Bridle, but anywhere. And so I

479
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,760
Hayley Paige: was arguing that it should have been narrowed in scope

480
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,720
Hayley Paige: to wedding dresses, because that's what we're making. I've been

481
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,399
Hayley Paige: operating on social media as Hailey Page for X amount

482
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,960
Hayley Paige: of years. This is very confusing, and so it wasn't

483
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,200
Hayley Paige: until the lawsuit, and in a matter of like twenty

484
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:52,199
Hayley Paige: four hours after an emergency hearing was granted that the

485
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:56,880
Hayley Paige: contract itself was taken in a very very broad interpretation

486
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,800
Hayley Paige: and everything that I had been trying to goiate. All

487
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,520
Hayley Paige: of a sudden, I realized, whoa I was actually negotiating

488
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,480
Hayley Paige: with myself. If we're going to actually take this interpretation

489
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,240
Hayley Paige: of the contract the way it was being taken in

490
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,800
Hayley Paige: a federal court, I had no negotiation power. I was

491
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,720
Hayley Paige: negotiating from a place where I already was at a deficit,

492
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,159
Hayley Paige: and so it was kind of like an all or

493
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,399
Hayley Paige: nothing thing. In those kind of scenarios, if there's no

494
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,640
Hayley Paige: wiggle room, there's no where you can go.

495
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:28,399
Emily Tisch Sussman: So JLM sued you. Yes, what did they sue you for?

496
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,400
Hayley Paige: Basically there was an infringement of the trademark. I mean

497
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,920
Hayley Paige: it was like a hundred page document. It was all

498
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,919
Hayley Paige: about the name and the intellectual property, and from their perspective,

499
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,040
Hayley Paige: they were trying to protect an entity that they owned,

500
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,840
Hayley Paige: right which was my name and everything that fell under

501
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:49,040
Hayley Paige: that under a very very broad contract. So there was

502
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:53,120
Hayley Paige: like reach of contract, There was an intellectual property provision

503
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,040
Hayley Paige: of infringement. There was the social media piece. There was

504
00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:00,280
Hayley Paige: a period of time that my fiance and I were

505
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,359
Hayley Paige: taking on influencer deals, and there wasn't that many, but

506
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,800
Hayley Paige: there were just a few projects where we were a

507
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,800
Hayley Paige: lot more active as a couple on social media years ago,

508
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,359
Hayley Paige: and so we were taking on these projects as a

509
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,080
Hayley Paige: second stream of income like anyone would, right, and we

510
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,919
Hayley Paige: didn't really think much about it, but it also complemented

511
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:19,440
Hayley Paige: what we were doing as a couple. We like to

512
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,800
Hayley Paige: work out, we like to cook, we like to drink wine,

513
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,720
Hayley Paige: and so like we were getting these opportunities, and that

514
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:29,920
Hayley Paige: kind of muddied the intellectual property because I am Haley Page,

515
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,160
Hayley Paige: but I don't know my name, and then if I'm

516
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:38,200
Hayley Paige: promoting something on my Instagram and it's the businesses perspective

517
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,159
Hayley Paige: that they owned the trademark, and they were trying to

518
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:44,000
Hayley Paige: argue that they also owned the Instagram handle, which was very,

519
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,960
Hayley Paige: very very complex because there wasn't any case a lot

520
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,480
Hayley Paige: the time that really supported the argument that they were making.

521
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,000
Hayley Paige: That would mean from their perspective, it was an infringement

522
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,960
Hayley Paige: on the intellectual property. And so then I thought to myself,

523
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,720
Hayley Paige: and at that time, actually I had had a lawyer

524
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,360
Hayley Paige: that was helping with these influencer deals, like just very

525
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,879
Hayley Paige: basic contracts. Even that firm at the time was like, no, no,

526
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,119
Hayley Paige: you're allowed to do influencer deals. Not like you're utilizing

527
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,399
Hayley Paige: Haley Page wedding dresses in the promotion of it. You

528
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:13,639
Hayley Paige: are Hayley Paige, you know.

529
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,119
Hayley Paige: I mean, they had a great argument for it, and

530
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,280
Hayley Paige: so I actually wanted to make sure I wasn't doing

531
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,960
Hayley Paige: anything wrong. But that all said, you know, this was

532
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,199
Hayley Paige: kind of the scope of what was going on. Right

533
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,680
Hayley Paige: after that first hearing was granted, I had to turn

534
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,280
Hayley Paige: over all of my personal passwords for all of my

535
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,880
Hayley Paige: social media hounds, not just Instagram, but TikTok, pinterests. They

536
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,320
Hayley Paige: own it all, it was the argument that they were making.

537
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,400
Hayley Paige: So it was pretty scary. And then obviously the non

538
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:43,080
Hayley Paige: compete didn't really come into play until August of twenty

539
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,439
Hayley Paige: twenty two, because I was sued in December of twenty

540
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,480
Hayley Paige: twenty and then at the time my lawyers the new

541
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,640
Hayley Paige: team that I had hired, Haines Boone, who were amazing.

542
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,080
Hayley Paige: They were like, well, you'll be able to get back

543
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,200
Hayley Paige: into the industry when the extension of your contract is up,

544
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,280
Hayley Paige: which is August of twenty twenty two. And so I

545
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,720
Hayley Paige: was like, Okay, well it is what it is. Let's

546
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:03,680
Hayley Paige: figure something else out or let's fight this and blah

547
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,359
Hayley Paige: blah blah. But a month before that date, it was

548
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,720
Hayley Paige: argued in a different way that I was actually under

549
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,760
Hayley Paige: an additional five year non compete, which the judge and

550
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,440
Hayley Paige: the federal court had granted. So then in totality a

551
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,440
Hayley Paige: non compete would have been a seven year unpaid non compete.

552
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,840
Emily Tisch Sussman: Wow. Yeah, okay, So they did take over your social

553
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,480
Emily Tisch Sussman: media handles and pretended to be you.

554
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,320
Hayley Paige: I think that they saw it as a business asset,

555
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,840
Hayley Paige: and so to them, if they genuinely felt like they

556
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,560
Hayley Paige: own the account, they're just posting to the account. However,

557
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,360
Hayley Paige: my mom was like, wait, who's posting to this account?

558
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,880
Hayley Paige: I'm confused, Like, don't people think it's you? Then? And

559
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,600
Hayley Paige: I'm like, yeah, it's going to be confusing for people,

560
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,080
Hayley Paige: especially if there's no visibility to it. I felt compelled

561
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,480
Hayley Paige: to tell people that I no longer hate access to

562
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,960
Hayley Paige: the account, and that I was not the one posting,

563
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,160
Hayley Paige: and that was a very factual delivery. I didn't want

564
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,000
Hayley Paige: to bring any extra negativity or grease it up in

565
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,920
Hayley Paige: any way. I just wanted people to know I'm not

566
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,040
Hayley Paige: behind my account anymore. I am fighting for it. I

567
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,960
Hayley Paige: cannot use my name, and I'm also not getting paid

568
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,440
Hayley Paige: for the dresses that are still being sold that bear

569
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,720
Hayley Paige: my name. And so like the fact that I was

570
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,640
Hayley Paige: just being very factual with it, you know, like I

571
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,440
Hayley Paige: thought I was doing the right thing.

572
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,959
Emily Tisch Sussman: Thing at the time. You've said that you entered purgatory

573
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,520
Emily Tisch Sussman: survival mode and you couldn't bring in income. So how

574
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,800
Emily Tisch Sussman: did you survive financially? How did you survive emotionally during

575
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,960
Emily Tisch Sussman: this time? I mean, you were being barred from the

576
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,760
Emily Tisch Sussman: thing that you had always wanted to do from childhood.

577
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,520
Hayley Paige: Yes, it was a very difficult time. I will say

578
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,560
Hayley Paige: that from the time I was sued until August of

579
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,320
Hayley Paige: twenty twenty two, it was a really, really delicate period

580
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:51,440
Hayley Paige: because I was technically still under this contract extension, but

581
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,800
Hayley Paige: I couldn't really do much because I couldn't use my

582
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,239
Hayley Paige: own name. I didn't realize that I you know, when

583
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,480
Hayley Paige: you sign your name on contracts or everything is kind

584
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,560
Hayley Paige: of tied to you the person, and so I was

585
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,040
Hayley Paige: kind of juggling with the reality of, Okay, well, what

586
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,160
Hayley Paige: can I do right now, because I don't want to

587
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,520
Hayley Paige: get in trouble and I am in a federal court

588
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,040
Hayley Paige: and it is terrifying, and I don't seem to be

589
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,400
Hayley Paige: doing well here. There was also a.

590
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,200
Hayley Paige: Period where I was like, well, I should just keep creating,

591
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,040
Hayley Paige: and I should just stay somewhat relevant and just stay

592
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,880
Hayley Paige: positive and get out there on another Instagram, which I did,

593
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:25,240
Hayley Paige: but even in that there. Were times where it was misinterpreted.

594
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,720
Hayley Paige: I was sketching an Indian sari on Instagram at one point,

595
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,560
Hayley Paige: and it was considered a contempt of court for sketching address,

596
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,400
Hayley Paige: and so that, I mean, that was terrifying because I

597
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,120
Hayley Paige: had a judgment against me. There was a part of

598
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:41,720
Hayley Paige: me that was afraid I was. Going to be going

599
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,480
Hayley Paige: to jail, straight to jail, like I never in my

600
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,640
Hayley Paige: life ever would want to come close to doing something

601
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,560
Hayley Paige: that would put me in that category. I felt shook

602
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:51,840
Hayley Paige: by the justice system.

603
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,840
Hayley Paige: And then I also like started to distrust myself a

604
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,000
Hayley Paige: little bit because again there's a shame that comes with

605
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,800
Hayley Paige: what had happened, and I was so sad that any

606
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,840
Hayley Paige: of the stress I was experiencing would cause a residual

607
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,720
Hayley Paige: stress to the industry, my stores, my brides, and I

608
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,960
Hayley Paige: just did not want that to hurt all of these

609
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,000
Hayley Paige: amazing moments that I did have that did help me

610
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:18,520
Hayley Paige: build the brand, that were very genuine and very important

611
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,240
Hayley Paige: to preserve. I went through a bit of a transition

612
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,120
Hayley Paige: period where I got a little scared of posting and

613
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,880
Hayley Paige: how it would be used against me or weaponized, and

614
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,640
Hayley Paige: you know, how are people feeling. I didn't care so

615
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:32,320
Hayley Paige: much what they thought of me. I just wanted to

616
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,440
Hayley Paige: know how they were feeling. And like, luckily, this freaking

617
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,080
Hayley Paige: community that we've grown together, I mean, they have just

618
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:43,840
Hayley Paige: been so encouraging and surviving with me, and like the

619
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:48,640
Hayley Paige: friendship that has existed in general on the Instagram community

620
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:54,200
Hayley Paige: for me has just been really, really fabulous and strong, and.

621
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,360
Hayley Paige: So I just feel like it's a we thing. It's

622
00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:00,120
Hayley Paige: not just me. In this journey.

623
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,080
Emily Tisch Sussman: Hayley can't earn income from her craft, she runs out

624
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,000
Emily Tisch Sussman: of money, she faces personal, professional, and legal struggles all

625
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:12,200
Emily Tisch Sussman: at once, So she changes her name, she learns a

626
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,760
Emily Tisch Sussman: new craft, and she goes all in on pushing ahead

627
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:24,400
Emily Tisch Sussman: no matter what she's lost. Did you feel like you

628
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,320
Emily Tisch Sussman: just couldn't use your actual name at all?

629
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:33,360
Hayley Paige: I did change it personally and for business because I

630
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,720
Hayley Paige: wanted an identity and I was coming out with a

631
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:37,880
Hayley Paige: new brand and I was going into shoe design, which

632
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,720
Hayley Paige: is non competitive, and I felt like I needed a reinvention.

633
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,760
Hayley Paige: I'm not letting circumstances in the driver's seat and we're

634
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,120
Hayley Paige: going to run against the wind. And Cheval is the

635
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:50,600
Hayley Paige: French word for horse. I love horses and unicorns.

636
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:51,720
Hayley Paige: And magical things, you know, stuff like that, and it

637
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,080
Hayley Paige: just was a strong word. I think of like horse cheval,

638
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,680
Hayley Paige: and I think of, you know, Cheval Blanc, which is

639
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,280
Hayley Paige: an amazing LVMA restaurant, and like it's just such a

640
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,520
Hayley Paige: prestigious name. And I was excited to step into that

641
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,520
Hayley Paige: and to feel like I had control there. And it

642
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:12,040
Hayley Paige: really helped me just identify for the remainder of my litigation,

643
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,880
Hayley Paige: for sure, but it's also now become such a sister

644
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,280
Hayley Paige: ego for me, and so I love Chaval and that

645
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,880
Hayley Paige: was very helpful for me. I couldn't legally change I

646
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,240
Hayley Paige: could have potentially, but I at the time I was

647
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,800
Hayley Paige: still very much in a lawsuit, and I couldn't even

648
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,600
Hayley Paige: fathom what that would look like having to adjust my name.

649
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,280
Hayley Paige: So I was like, I'll just not use Dailey page

650
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,040
Hayley Paige: and I definitely detached from it because I did not

651
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:37,840
Hayley Paige: think I was going to get my name back. I

652
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,080
Hayley Paige: knew at some point I would be able to design again,

653
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,280
Hayley Paige: but I did not think I was going to get

654
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:42,800
Hayley Paige: my name back.

655
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,000
Emily Tisch Sussman: You started a legal podcast for artists and founded a

656
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,040
Emily Tisch Sussman: Girl you Might Know foundation during this time. Was that

657
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,280
Emily Tisch Sussman: Chaval was Chaval like, I'm still going through my legal battle,

658
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,200
Emily Tisch Sussman: but you don't mess with me. Let me give this

659
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:55,440
Emily Tisch Sussman: advice to others.

660
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,640
Hayley Paige: A little bit. So I went off of A Girl

661
00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,760
Hayley Paige: you Might Know. And I don't know if this is

662
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,080
Hayley Paige: a for time I'm saying this, but originally, when I

663
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,080
Hayley Paige: was branding my shoe collection, I wanted to call the

664
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,239
Hayley Paige: brand a Girl you might Know. And I had even

665
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,520
Hayley Paige: done all the prototypes. I did the logo, like I

666
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:15,080
Hayley Paige: did everything for it, and a few weeks before launch,

667
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,239
Hayley Paige: I got really nervous that because I had used a

668
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,399
Hayley Paige: Girl you Might Know on my Instagram as a way

669
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,919
Hayley Paige: to identify me during that two and a half year

670
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,560
Hayley Paige: extension period, like from twenty twenty to August of twenty

671
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,719
Hayley Paige: twenty two. I was just terrified that it would be

672
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,719
Hayley Paige: interpreted as intellectual property under the contract, and so I

673
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:37,759
Hayley Paige: was like, oh my god, I don't want to go

674
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,720
Hayley Paige: launch this brand new brand. And then all of a sudden,

675
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,480
Hayley Paige: an argument be made that they own that name too,

676
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:45,920
Hayley Paige: because I was using it, you know, and so like

677
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,560
Hayley Paige: I was doom scrolling, and so there was like this

678
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:50,400
Hayley Paige: period of time where I was like, oh my god,

679
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,920
Hayley Paige: like I can't do anything, like what if I you know,

680
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,440
Hayley Paige: it was just a really unusual time period. And I

681
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:59,399
Hayley Paige: also was running on very low fumes. I ran out

682
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,799
Hayley Paige: of money in. Twenty twenty one. I had no money left.

683
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,520
Hayley Paige: After a few back and forth litigations, motions, judgments, like

684
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,680
Hayley Paige: I was at zero. I have no money. And so

685
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:14,799
Hayley Paige: luckily my legal team tremendous team. They really championed what

686
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,040
Hayley Paige: I was doing, and they believed that if we stayed

687
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,160
Hayley Paige: in the pocket, we would come out on top in

688
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,440
Hayley Paige: terms of the intellectual property and especially the social media.

689
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,719
Hayley Paige: And they stayed on pro bono low bono. They represented

690
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,520
Hayley Paige: me with so much strength during the time where I

691
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,640
Hayley Paige: was like I cannot pay you. I have no money.

692
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,040
Hayley Paige: Left and I'm not making money, so that was really

693
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,040
Hayley Paige: really scary. And then now that I've got this brand

694
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,040
Hayley Paige: under a name where I'm not sure, I had to

695
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,600
Hayley Paige: rebrand two weeks before. And so luckily Chaval was the

696
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,080
Hayley Paige: name I was already really excited about, and I thought,

697
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,759
Hayley Paige: she is Cheval, had this nice ring to it, and

698
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:51,719
Hayley Paige: I liked it being a phrase. A girl you might

699
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:53,719
Hayley Paige: Know was the phrase, and so she and Chaval became

700
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,400
Hayley Paige: the phrase. And so I rebranded everything and we launched

701
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,080
Hayley Paige: a very very small business. So yeah, crazy creaty.

702
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:07,040
Emily Tisch Sussman: In October twenty twenty three, JLM Coutour files for bankruptcy

703
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,880
Emily Tisch Sussman: and Hailey sees an opening. With the help of her

704
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:15,200
Emily Tisch Sussman: legal team and business mentor, Hailey does something almost nobody

705
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:20,160
Emily Tisch Sussman: saw coming. She buys her own name back. After four

706
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,480
Emily Tisch Sussman: years of being legally barred from being herself, she becomes

707
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:29,160
Emily Tisch Sussman: herself again. Her struggle to retain her own identity inspires

708
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,920
Emily Tisch Sussman: her to found a Girl you Might Know Foundation to

709
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:36,200
Emily Tisch Sussman: help young creatives actually understand what they're signing. She starts

710
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:40,040
Emily Tisch Sussman: a legal podcast for artists. She testifies before the US

711
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:45,600
Emily Tisch Sussman: Senate about banning noncompete agreements. Well then, in twenty twenty three,

712
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,680
Emily Tisch Sussman: Almcutur filed for bankruptcy. I mean, what went through your

713
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:51,319
Emily Tisch Sussman: mind when you heard that news.

714
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,640
Hayley Paige: Guess at that point I was a little primed, because

715
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,160
Hayley Paige: I myself was I mean, I'm just an individual and

716
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,640
Hayley Paige: their corporation, and so it wasn't surprising when I ran

717
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:07,000
Hayley Paige: out of money, but I started to recognize the economics involved.

718
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,839
Hayley Paige: I took a really strong interest in the business side

719
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,399
Hayley Paige: of things after the law or during the lawsuit, because

720
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,600
Hayley Paige: I was like, let me fully understand this business, because

721
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,120
Hayley Paige: I've just been in law of land over here designing

722
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,880
Hayley Paige: dresses and not being as aware of the finances and

723
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,640
Hayley Paige: the intellectual property and all this stuff that is so important.

724
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:24,799
Hayley Paige: So let's learn it right.

725
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,120
Hayley Paige: And I had time on my hands, and so I

726
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,560
Hayley Paige: was really lucky to be blessed with a mentor who

727
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,560
Hayley Paige: has an enormous business brain and has just been through

728
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:38,560
Hayley Paige: so many things in life, like litigations and all types

729
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,560
Hayley Paige: of businesses and all this stuff. And so he was

730
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,640
Hayley Paige: really my guiding light in a lot of the psychology

731
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,480
Hayley Paige: of a lawsuit and how it should be kind of

732
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:47,600
Hayley Paige: viewed as like a chess game, and there's a lot

733
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,560
Hayley Paige: of strategy involved. One thing that he had told me

734
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,560
Hayley Paige: very early on, and he was one hundred percent correct.

735
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:55,839
Hayley Paige: Is he said the money is going to run out

736
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,440
Hayley Paige: because in litigation it is so expensive, it is so

737
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:03,400
Hayley Paige: expensive to submit motions and do all this stuff. People

738
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,680
Hayley Paige: run out of money in lawsuits. When I looked at

739
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,640
Hayley Paige: the numbers that were public fiscally in terms of like

740
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,920
Hayley Paige: the last ten years, including the litigation years, it was

741
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,000
Hayley Paige: very easy to see a pattern, actually, and so I

742
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,440
Hayley Paige: was a little bit primed that at some point, I

743
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,279
Hayley Paige: don't know where, there's only so much money that can

744
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,359
Hayley Paige: be in a business, right And so for me, I

745
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,600
Hayley Paige: just did the simple math, which wasn't so simple for

746
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:29,440
Hayley Paige: me years ago, but now it is a lot simpler

747
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,880
Hayley Paige: to look at. So when that happened, I was like,

748
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,400
Hayley Paige: whoa it, actually this is happening. And I think there

749
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,520
Hayley Paige: was also a little bit of sadness, because it's always

750
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:42,759
Hayley Paige: sad when there's like that any company, you know, And

751
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,120
Hayley Paige: so it was a little it was weird because like

752
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,000
Hayley Paige: I felt a little that's unfortunate, But I also was

753
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,080
Hayley Paige: hopeful that maybe this would shift the landscape finally and

754
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,040
Hayley Paige: that maybe we could both get out of this and

755
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,359
Hayley Paige: both make it out okay, you know, So I don't know,

756
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:02,319
Hayley Paige: maybe that's there was a variety of emotions.

757
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,320
Emily Tisch Sussman: And you ultimately paid two hundred and sixty three thousand

758
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:09,560
Emily Tisch Sussman: dollars by your name and intellectual property and all associated

759
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,399
Emily Tisch Sussman: with it back out of JLM. How did you come

760
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,880
Emily Tisch Sussman: up with that money? Was that part of the plan?

761
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:17,680
Emily Tisch Sussman: And like what did it feel like to purchase your

762
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:18,800
Emily Tisch Sussman: own identity back?

763
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,359
Hayley Paige: My goodness? Well, when they had filed for bankruptcy, and

764
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,239
Hayley Paige: immediately I thought to myself, Okay, there something's going to

765
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,920
Hayley Paige: shift here because I don't know how you can continue

766
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,480
Hayley Paige: a litigation. And then when you're going through a bankruptcy,

767
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,319
Hayley Paige: like all the numbers start to become visible. And so

768
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,880
Hayley Paige: what I really appreciated about bankruptcy court is that it

769
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,360
Hayley Paige: is very different than being in a federal lawsuit. A

770
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,080
Hayley Paige: bankruptcy court really just comes down to showing the numbers,

771
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,000
Hayley Paige: whereas in the stages we were in in a litigation,

772
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,040
Hayley Paige: we had not hit a point where everyone kind of

773
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,000
Hayley Paige: had to show receipts or I guess you call that

774
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,399
Hayley Paige: discovery phase, and so a lot of arguments and things

775
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,759
Hayley Paige: can be made, right, but it doesn't really You don't

776
00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:59,759
Hayley Paige: really top turkey in a lawsuit until there's like the

777
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,760
Hayley Paige: t right, and so in a bankruptcy court it's almost

778
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,160
Hayley Paige: fast tracked because immediately like the numbers are shown and

779
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,200
Hayley Paige: where things are at, and there's like a bit of

780
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:13,120
Hayley Paige: auditing too that comes into play. And for me, there

781
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:17,040
Hayley Paige: was definitely an opportunity to actually put money on the

782
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:21,319
Hayley Paige: table and attempt to help the bankruptcy situation. And so

783
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,040
Hayley Paige: that is essentially the strategy was to say, if there's

784
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:29,840
Hayley Paige: distress and there's money being added to purchase intellectual property,

785
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,520
Hayley Paige: it's a very positive thing in a bankruptcy court. So

786
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:34,880
Hayley Paige: that's like the simplest way of explaining it.

787
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:39,680
Hayley Paige: And when there was a settlement from that, there are

788
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,120
Hayley Paige: there's obviously another contract that's signed in the settlement contract,

789
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,440
Hayley Paige: and so in that you know, there's very respectful terms

790
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,920
Hayley Paige: of which you know, I'm not allowed to disclose certain things,

791
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,759
Hayley Paige: and so for that I'm unable to share like our

792
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,560
Hayley Paige: elaborate on but what I can say is that it's

793
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,279
Hayley Paige: always a very good thing when you're able to come

794
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,960
Hayley Paige: up with funds and with the caveat that it actually

795
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,560
Hayley Paige: might help a scenario. And this was all very positive

796
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,239
Hayley Paige: and so for four years going into litigation where it

797
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:13,640
Hayley Paige: was very not positive for me, at all. And it

798
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,840
Hayley Paige: also seemed not as positive for both parties, you know,

799
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,680
Hayley Paige: because here is a company that's in bankruptcy. It just

800
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,319
Hayley Paige: was a very very good thing and there was like

801
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,480
Hayley Paige: a silver lining there. So yeah, and I got it all.

802
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:27,600
Hayley Paige: Like I didn't just say, oh I just want to

803
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,399
Hayley Paige: design again, or oh I just want my name back.

804
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,000
Hayley Paige: It was kind of an all or nothing thing. And

805
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,480
Hayley Paige: I would still credit my business mentor and my lawyers

806
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,759
Hayley Paige: for that because it's. Not like I came up with it.

807
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,160
Hayley Paige: I was aware that in a bankruptcy court, if a

808
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,440
Hayley Paige: company actually goes bankrupt, they sell off their assets. Like

809
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:47,239
Hayley Paige: I knew that, So. There was a part of me

810
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,839
Hayley Paige: that was like, well, maybe if they have to sell

811
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,400
Hayley Paige: off assets, I could buy it then. But the problem

812
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,160
Hayley Paige: was something like that, at least from what little I

813
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,799
Hayley Paige: knew there, you could always risk somebody else buying it.

814
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,880
Hayley Paige: So yeah, that's where all of that kind of came

815
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:01,319
Hayley Paige: into play.

816
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,840
Emily Tisch Sussman: So once you got this asset back, your name, your design,

817
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:10,160
Emily Tisch Sussman: your socials, all that, how did you think about reintegrating

818
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,359
Emily Tisch Sussman: it into your professional career at that point, which is

819
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,560
Emily Tisch Sussman: takes us almost to now, how did you think about

820
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:20,680
Emily Tisch Sussman: balancing the shoe line the new dress line. Had you

821
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,279
Emily Tisch Sussman: had had four hard years, like you'd kind of moved on.

822
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,759
Hayley Paige: Yeah, the running a small business, gosh, it was so

823
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,360
Hayley Paige: time consuming. And how do I say this?

824
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,680
Hayley Paige: So She Is Cheval is a small business, but we manufacture,

825
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,000
Hayley Paige: so that means we are responsible for all the overhead,

826
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,040
Hayley Paige: all the inventory, all the sales productions. You know, you're

827
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,400
Hayley Paige: guessing your sizes, like how many size eights am I

828
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,400
Hayley Paige: going to sell in this particular shoe. I mean, so

829
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:49,359
Hayley Paige: much of that business is extremely difficult to titrate. That's

830
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:51,560
Hayley Paige: the right word there, Like it is. It is a

831
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,680
Hayley Paige: lot of learning lessons. And one thing that did happen

832
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:56,719
Hayley Paige: is that so much of that small business was very

833
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:00,560
Hayley Paige: dependent on me personally because I wasn't just as now.

834
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,080
Hayley Paige: I was also helping operate the business and the sales

835
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,640
Hayley Paige: and the content and all that. When I got the

836
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,799
Hayley Paige: settlement and I got Hailey Page back, I knew I

837
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:10,680
Hayley Paige: was like, I'm not going to be able to do

838
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,320
Hayley Paige: both of these things to the degree that I would

839
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,239
Hayley Paige: like to do that, And so I really had to

840
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:19,440
Hayley Paige: have a period of strategizing where I sat down with

841
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,360
Hayley Paige: people I have, like my group of people that I

842
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,359
Hayley Paige: really trust over the years that provide advice and kind

843
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,160
Hayley Paige: of work like a sharett you know, and they're like,

844
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:28,839
Hayley Paige: we're going to help you kind of figure out how

845
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:30,640
Hayley Paige: to make this all, like with the transwing of the

846
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,560
Hayley Paige: intellectual property and the figuring out of LLC's and now

847
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,080
Hayley Paige: I want to protect everything and how do we make

848
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,799
Hayley Paige: this work. So I gave myself a grace period. I

849
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,000
Hayley Paige: didn't say, Okay, I've got to get out there right away,

850
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,400
Hayley Paige: Hailey Page and I can't miss any time. I was like,

851
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,040
Hayley Paige: I've been out of the game for four years, and

852
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,759
Hayley Paige: I have this amazing community that not only encouraged me

853
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:53,880
Hayley Paige: to fight for myself, but they have also participated in

854
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,400
Hayley Paige: my brand new brand where I didn't have a lot

855
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:58,600
Hayley Paige: of credibility in shoes. I had to kind of learn

856
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,080
Hayley Paige: as I went. But they're there. Never left.

857
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,279
Hayley Paige: They're the one constant I have had this entire time,

858
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,440
Hayley Paige: is this incredible support system. And so that allowed me

859
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,680
Hayley Paige: to say, slow my freaking role, and like, let's do

860
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:14,160
Hayley Paige: this right this time. And so I took almost ten

861
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:18,040
Hayley Paige: months to get everything organized and figure out, hey, I'm

862
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,040
Hayley Paige: going to put some of this on cruise control. I'm

863
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,040
Hayley Paige: going to eventually delegate over here. We're going to see

864
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:24,800
Hayley Paige: where I have funds here, how am I going to

865
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,319
Hayley Paige: pay back my legal bills? It was just like an

866
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,160
Hayley Paige: organizing of my house and then like being just so

867
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,560
Hayley Paige: appreciative that I've got this new entity and this asset

868
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,480
Hayley Paige: that I want to protect. I think that shifted my

869
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,120
Hayley Paige: mind set as an entrepreneur because a lot of times

870
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:41,240
Hayley Paige: we were fed this idea that it's like, just start,

871
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,960
Hayley Paige: just start, just get out there, right, And it's like, no,

872
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:46,760
Hayley Paige: don't just get out there. Let's actually think a little

873
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:50,000
Hayley Paige: bit about how we can set up some systems so

874
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,080
Hayley Paige: that we're getting ahead of the harder conversations that are

875
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:58,000
Hayley Paige: inevitable because talent does not scale. Protecting talent scales, and

876
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:01,239
Hayley Paige: if your business is built on your exhaustion and you

877
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,400
Hayley Paige: don't have enough systems to scale it and make it grow,

878
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,719
Hayley Paige: then it's an inevitably dying business. Do you have to

879
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,520
Hayley Paige: have these systems and ways for it to flourish on

880
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,279
Hayley Paige: its own without you? So yeah, I would say I

881
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,640
Hayley Paige: just took my time, and then I found this amazing

882
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:19,359
Hayley Paige: partnership with Maddie Lane Bridle Group. I interviewed with a

883
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:23,880
Hayley Paige: lot of different bridal companies and I was just shocked

884
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,880
Hayley Paige: at what support was out there still and just genuine

885
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,280
Hayley Paige: enthusiasm by the industry itself, and I went and spoke

886
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,600
Hayley Paige: on Capitol Hill. I was like not feeling like I

887
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,080
Hayley Paige: couldn't go do that opportunity because I need to get

888
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:37,759
Hayley Paige: the brand up and running again. I was like, no,

889
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:39,120
Hayley Paige: we're going to do this first. We're going to go

890
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,080
Hayley Paige: to Capitol Hill. That came alongside the nonprofit or the

891
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,560
Hayley Paige: work we're doing over there, which became a Girl you

892
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:49,040
Hayley Paige: might know Foundation. So yeah, it has been a journey.

893
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:52,399
Emily Tisch Sussman: A journey for sure. Let's bring a personal back into it.

894
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,280
Emily Tisch Sussman: You found love a second time. How did you meet

895
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,560
Emily Tisch Sussman: your now fiance? Where would you say that he in

896
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:00,920
Emily Tisch Sussman: your life has factored through the past couple of years.

897
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:05,000
Hayley Paige: Conrad is my superman and I met him through a

898
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,439
Hayley Paige: mutual friend in New York City. She was going through

899
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:09,600
Hayley Paige: a divorce at the same time I was, and so

900
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,200
Hayley Paige: we went to go have like a divorce party basically,

901
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:14,080
Hayley Paige: and we went to the ballet and had this like

902
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:16,839
Hayley Paige: totally girly night and she flat out told me, when

903
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,040
Hayley Paige: I'm ready to meet somebody, she has my next husband,

904
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,680
Hayley Paige: and she was right. So we met the next day

905
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,759
Hayley Paige: and he moved in almost immediately. We were both coming

906
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:28,360
Hayley Paige: out of very long relationships. Actually his was even longer

907
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:30,319
Hayley Paige: than mine, and I had been married, so we both

908
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,640
Hayley Paige: kind of had baggage. But we were very honest upfront,

909
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:37,120
Hayley Paige: and we did not feel jaded or feel like we

910
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:40,560
Hayley Paige: were rushing, even though it was almost immediate when we

911
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,200
Hayley Paige: met each other. And luckily it was mutual, because if

912
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,160
Hayley Paige: one of us was crazy for the other and it

913
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,480
Hayley Paige: was misaligned, we would have not been together. But it

914
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:53,239
Hayley Paige: was very mutual. So he has been the big survival

915
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,520
Hayley Paige: for me over the past few years because he had

916
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:58,120
Hayley Paige: met me at a time where I was emotionally, you know,

917
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,440
Hayley Paige: coming out of a divorce. But I was doing very

918
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:04,400
Hayley Paige: well in my business and things were going well. I

919
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,319
Hayley Paige: had an apartment in New York City, and you know,

920
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,480
Hayley Paige: there was a lot of stuff, exciting stuff, and we

921
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,560
Hayley Paige: started doing content together. He was in the fitness world

922
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:14,880
Hayley Paige: for a bit, and it was just a very natural

923
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,920
Hayley Paige: thing for us to you know, collaborate on some stuff

924
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,640
Hayley Paige: and it was great, and then everything went to hell,

925
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,279
Hayley Paige: like I lost my name, I lost my job, I

926
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,200
Hayley Paige: lost my you know, like it just was like do

927
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:28,239
Hayley Paige: you still love me?

928
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:28,600
Emily Tisch Sussman: You know?

929
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:30,840
Hayley Paige: And it really was one of those kind of moments

930
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,360
Hayley Paige: where I'm like, well, this will test it and we'll

931
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:34,200
Hayley Paige: see how it goes.

932
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,399
Hayley Paige: And there's just not been a tiny ounce of him

933
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,919
Hayley Paige: that's not genuine and strong, and he has so much

934
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:46,120
Hayley Paige: respect for me and our relationship. I can't say enough

935
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:49,279
Hayley Paige: about how lucky I am to have somebody like that

936
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:53,600
Hayley Paige: in what I've gone through, and just has been the

937
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:58,200
Hayley Paige: most inspiring. And strong person that I know. I can't

938
00:47:58,200 --> 00:47:58,839
Hayley Paige: wait to marry him.

939
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:00,319
Hayley Paige: I mean, it's been six and a half year that

940
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,879
Hayley Paige: we've been engaged in almost eight years together, so it's time.

941
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,120
Hayley Paige: We're going to do it. Come a year, this is it.

942
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,279
Emily Tisch Sussman: And you did postpone the marriage at one point, right.

943
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:11,960
Hayley Paige: Yes, we did because we had gotten engaged in twenty nineteen.

944
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,560
Hayley Paige: And unfortunately Conrad also got pulled into the lawsuit. He

945
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,719
Hayley Paige: was sued as well, and that tied around some of

946
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:22,120
Hayley Paige: the influencer stuff. Anytime you're sued, it's a very scary thing.

947
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:24,640
Hayley Paige: And so you know, we went through our own like

948
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,080
Hayley Paige: evolution as a couple, and he's not really on social

949
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,920
Hayley Paige: media anymore at all. He's pivoted into real estate and

950
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:36,160
Hayley Paige: he does investing in entrepreneurship and he completely won eightied

951
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:37,719
Hayley Paige: as well. I mean I didn't really want eighty. I

952
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:38,840
Hayley Paige: almost went three sixty. You know.

953
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,600
Hayley Paige: Came back to Bridal, whereas he has actually got into

954
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:43,120
Hayley Paige: a whole new profession and that's why we live in

955
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:45,960
Hayley Paige: Palm Beach now. But yeah, it's kind of cool that

956
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:48,760
Hayley Paige: we have both grown a lot, and luckily we've grown together,

957
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:52,240
Hayley Paige: and so it's nice that we've battled our own things

958
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:55,760
Hayley Paige: and then collectively together. He also had like a crazy

959
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,319
Hayley Paige: open heart surgery a year and a half ago that

960
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:01,600
Hayley Paige: was provoked by a wisdom tooth surgery and went to

961
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:03,880
Hayley Paige: his heart and he had strokes. And it was just

962
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:05,560
Hayley Paige: like what is life?

963
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,480
Hayley Paige: Because we were we were at the exhaustion point of

964
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:12,000
Hayley Paige: the lawsuit and then his health has been compromised, and

965
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,960
Hayley Paige: to me, I was like, stop complaining, Hailey, You're alive,

966
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,920
Hayley Paige: you know, like Conrad's you know. So it's just crazy

967
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:21,600
Hayley Paige: how perspective works and the battles of life.

968
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:23,879
Emily Tisch Sussman: What is one thing? It could be something we've talked

969
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,560
Emily Tisch Sussman: about or something different that at the time you saw

970
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:28,960
Emily Tisch Sussman: as a real low point, and now you see it

971
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,400
Emily Tisch Sussman: as having really built you to who you are today.

972
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:35,200
Hayley Paige: I think the lowest point was when I ran out

973
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:37,600
Hayley Paige: of money, and I had to sell my New York apartment,

974
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:42,360
Hayley Paige: and it was the densest part of the lawsuit because

975
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:46,480
Hayley Paige: I had run out of resources and ideas, like you

976
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,400
Hayley Paige: know when they say absence of resources, be resourceful, and

977
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,000
Hayley Paige: you know, you're just kind of at that point where

978
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:56,640
Hayley Paige: you feel victimized by life, right, And I don't. I

979
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,959
Hayley Paige: do not operate well from a place of victimhood myself person.

980
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,880
Hayley Paige: It's just so discouraging and disenchanting, and a lot of

981
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,520
Hayley Paige: my work is just so beautiful and imaginative and happy,

982
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:11,360
Hayley Paige: and so there's this real big contrast you experience. And

983
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:15,560
Hayley Paige: I was still okay, and that that's kind of the

984
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:19,480
Hayley Paige: lesson is it's like, Okay, you can really mess up

985
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,799
Hayley Paige: and lose a lot, and you're okay, you know, And

986
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,319
Hayley Paige: it was temporary. Everything is temporary.

987
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:28,920
Hayley Paige: So I think that's kind of a moment in my

988
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:33,200
Hayley Paige: time where I was really feeling it and I was okay.

989
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,760
Hayley Paige: I still had my family, and I still had access

990
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:38,719
Hayley Paige: to some of my community in a new Instagram, I

991
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,480
Hayley Paige: still had my sketch books, and I could still do

992
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:45,520
Hayley Paige: stuff in the unseen hours, and I just didn't I

993
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:48,040
Hayley Paige: didn't give in, right, I didn't I didn't just like

994
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:51,640
Hayley Paige: completely give up on it all because it was there's

995
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:55,520
Hayley Paige: still so much there that was gracious. So I think

996
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,040
Hayley Paige: that was it. That was the you're going to be okay,

997
00:50:58,320 --> 00:50:59,520
Hayley Paige: you have to tell yourself.

998
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:01,439
Emily Tisch Sussman: That, Yeah, do you think you'll pivot again?

999
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:02,680
Hayley Paige: I hope. So.

1000
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:04,760
Hayley Paige: I feel like it taught me a lot about myself.

1001
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:06,640
Hayley Paige: It gave me a little more of a backbone, and

1002
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:10,359
Hayley Paige: I'm very much more comfortable with the word no and

1003
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:14,960
Hayley Paige: being firm with people, whereas before it was pretty I

1004
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,880
Hayley Paige: don't want to be snappy, you know, and like sometimes

1005
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:20,680
Hayley Paige: you've got to be firm and it's okay. So I hope. So.

1006
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:23,640
Hayley Paige: I think pivoting is where you learn new things and

1007
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:27,200
Hayley Paige: you don't feel like you're being labeled, like our internal

1008
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:29,799
Hayley Paige: monologue is like where the stuff happens, right, like what

1009
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,960
Hayley Paige: we're telling ourselves. And if your settings are always defaulting

1010
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,200
Hayley Paige: to a place of this is who I am and

1011
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:37,600
Hayley Paige: because it's comfortable and it's because this is who was

1012
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:41,000
Hayley Paige: applauded years ago, it leaves very little room for you

1013
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:44,480
Hayley Paige: to grow and adaptability when you do have to pivot.

1014
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:47,160
Hayley Paige: So like when that moment comes, if you're not so

1015
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:49,839
Hayley Paige: attached to every little thing that has made you who

1016
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:52,279
Hayley Paige: you are. It's actually okay, It's actually a very good

1017
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,319
Hayley Paige: thing because you'll potentially learn something new about yourself. You'll

1018
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:58,640
Hayley Paige: feel like there's a lot more possibility than this makeup

1019
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:01,480
Hayley Paige: that you've put in your brain, and that will be

1020
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:03,680
Hayley Paige: We will see what the next pivot is.

1021
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:05,800
Emily Tisch Sussman: Is there anything that we haven't covered that we should?

1022
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:07,600
Hayley Paige: I feel like this was like a therapy session.

1023
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,880
Emily Tisch Sussman: They generally are, well, thank you so much Hailey for joining,

1024
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:13,680
Emily Tisch Sussman: of course, thank you so great to have you on.

1025
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:14,480
Hayley Paige: Thank you.

1026
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:20,160
Emily Tisch Sussman: Hailey's pivot is something a little different than what we

1027
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:23,480
Emily Tisch Sussman: typically see on this show. She didn't choose to leave

1028
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:27,399
Emily Tisch Sussman: the wedding dresses. Wedding dresses got taken from her. Her

1029
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:31,000
Emily Tisch Sussman: name got taken from her by a contract she signed

1030
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:33,480
Emily Tisch Sussman: when she was twenty five years old, in a system

1031
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:37,200
Emily Tisch Sussman: that was frankly not built to protect her. She fought hard,

1032
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:41,440
Emily Tisch Sussman: remade herself, and eventually bought back her own identity, and

1033
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:44,840
Emily Tisch Sussman: then immediately turned around and helped other women protect theirs.

1034
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:47,640
Emily Tisch Sussman: Sometimes the pivot is what you do with what you've

1035
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:51,400
Emily Tisch Sussman: been handed, and sometimes, like Hailey, what you do is

1036
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:53,359
Emily Tisch Sussman: fight for your right to do the thing you were

1037
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,279
Emily Tisch Sussman: always meant to do and then make sure the next

1038
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:59,120
Emily Tisch Sussman: woman doesn't have to fight as hard. You can keep

1039
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:02,400
Emily Tisch Sussman: up with Hailey pay on Instagram at miss Haley page

1040
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:04,600
Emily Tisch Sussman: and check out her foundation at a Girl you Might

1041
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:08,000
Emily Tisch Sussman: Know Foundation. That's all for today, See you next week.

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Thanks for listening to she Pivots. If you like this episode,

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Emily Tisch Sussman: follow the show so you never miss a pivot story

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Emily Tisch Sussman: and share it with one woman in your life who

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Emily Tisch Sussman: might need to hear it. To learn more about our

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Emily Tisch Sussman: guests and join our community, follow us on Instagram at

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Emily Tisch Sussman: she pivots the podcast our Subscribe to our substack for

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Emily Tisch Sussman: exclusive content and behind the scenes conversations. You can also

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Emily Tisch Sussman: find us at shepivotspod dot com. This episode was produced

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Emily Tisch Sussman: and edited by Paige Davis Janatt, with sound editing and

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Emily Tisch Sussman: mixing by Nina Pollock. Logistics and planning by Emastopic and

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Emily Tisch Sussman: Kendall Crupkin. Research by Christine Dickison. She Pivots is proud

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Emily Tisch Sussman: to be a part of the iHeart Podcast Network. I

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Emily Tisch Sussman: endorse she Pivots.