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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Sam, this is John, and we are

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Speaker 1: the founding hosts of Okay Storytime Podcasts.

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Speaker 2: And we have some foundational stories coming up for you.

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Speaker 1: But the thing is this foundation needs a little support

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Speaker 1: from these sponsors. So stick around two minutes.

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Speaker 3: We'll get into the episode.

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Speaker 4: My girlfriend's parents are spying on her, and I'm done

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Speaker 4: staying quiet about.

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Speaker 5: It, your double agent spy man.

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Speaker 4: My girlfriend and I are in college. I've met her

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Speaker 4: parents and I'm aware her relationship with them.

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Speaker 3: Has some serious issues.

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Speaker 4: She's only told me the worst of it, and there's

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Speaker 4: probably a million red flags that she doesn't think are

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Speaker 4: worth mentioning. Things are even worse than I thought. By

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Speaker 4: the way, this comes from user n on three eight

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Speaker 4: eight four eight one six eight And if you want

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Speaker 4: to submit your stories, going down to the RSLASH Showkay

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Speaker 4: story Time supread it.

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Speaker 2: I'm Dakota, I'm Riley, and we are here to give

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Speaker 2: you good advice.

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Speaker 4: Goofly, But we don't have all the answers. We only

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Speaker 4: know what we would do, So if you would do

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Speaker 4: something different.

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Speaker 3: Let us know in the comments.

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Speaker 4: Earlier this week, she told me that her parents have

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Speaker 4: spywear installed on her phone and her computer. Not just

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Speaker 4: location tracking and call tracing, but everything from the texts

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Speaker 4: and photos she sends to me to her stories she

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Speaker 4: works on in her spare time. Basically, they know everything

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Speaker 4: she does on her devices when she does it. She

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Speaker 4: knows this because when she told me a story about

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Speaker 4: her mom over text, she got a message saying I

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Speaker 4: never did that. Her parents also asked her about her story.

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Speaker 4: They do not seem to give her any privacy whatsoever.

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Speaker 4: Even before the spywear, when she changed the password for

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Speaker 4: her email, they changed it back. When they found out

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Speaker 4: she had a private email, they demanded that she give

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Speaker 4: them the password. The only way she might be able

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Speaker 4: to get anything done without them knowing is if it's

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Speaker 4: on a device that isn't hers. But for all I know,

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Speaker 4: they could know her logins thanks to the spyware. Her

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Speaker 4: mom is very discipline oriented, and I'm ninety percent sure

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Speaker 4: that the dad is a PDF not that he ever

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Speaker 4: touched her. I think, just some very concerning comments about

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Speaker 4: her and young girls in general, starting back when she

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Speaker 4: was nine or ten.

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Speaker 2: They are both MAGA supporters.

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Speaker 3: She has a.

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Speaker 4: Younger brother, and it is obvious that he's the favorite

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Speaker 4: when they spread misinformation in the family chat and she

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Speaker 4: tells them when they're wrong. She's told to be quiet,

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Speaker 4: but when he says it, like but when he says it,

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Speaker 4: they're all like.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I had no idea.

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Speaker 4: What doesn't help is the fact that he got into

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Speaker 4: IVY League and she didn't. We got into a minor

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Speaker 4: accident while she was driving, and she wasn't going to

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Speaker 4: classes for the first couple days even though she was sick. Basically,

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Speaker 4: anything that reinforces their preconceived ideas about her. I think

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Speaker 4: they even trust me more than her. They're always asking

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Speaker 4: me for stef us updates on what's happening with her,

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Speaker 4: and asking if I can go check on her if

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Speaker 4: they notice she hasn't left her place, even when she

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Speaker 4: isn't responding to me. If they want to know how

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Speaker 4: she's doing and she isn't responding, why don't they just

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Speaker 4: wait for a response instead of coming to me while

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Speaker 4: simultaneously blowing up her phone with ten to twenty calls

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Speaker 4: and messages. When I tell her mom she's sick and

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Speaker 4: needs rest, or that she should see a doctor to

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Speaker 4: get a note, so it is encountered against her attendance,

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Speaker 4: she doesn't try to understand and just.

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Speaker 3: Says she needs to go to classes.

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Speaker 4: She also regularly asks me to talk to them when

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Speaker 4: she thinks she needs more money for necessities like groceries

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Speaker 4: and cleaning supplies. When I do, they just say, oh, okay,

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Speaker 4: thanks for helping her out. I'll send her more money.

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Speaker 4: I just don't want to give her too much because

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Speaker 4: knowing her, she'll just have.

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Speaker 3: It delivered instead of using the car we got her.

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Speaker 4: When she told them that if we ever end up

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Speaker 4: having a kid, I would be hoping for a daughter,

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Speaker 4: they said, Oh, why having a son is so much easier.

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Speaker 4: You barely have to do anything with them. And doesn't

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Speaker 4: he want to continue his bloodline.

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Speaker 3: That gives you an idea of what they think of her.

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Speaker 5: Oh boy, we had a story like this yesterday that

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Speaker 5: is terrifying.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, hope he continues. Any advice, please.

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Speaker 5: Play the long game, get your affairs in order, and

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Speaker 5: exit plan. Exit plan, for sure. If I was in

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Speaker 5: this situation, I would sadly have to stick it out

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Speaker 5: unless I want to be like a part time worker

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Speaker 5: and go to school. But if you're not in school, dude,

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Speaker 5: I'll be creating an exit plan.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I think.

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Speaker 4: Maybe a little therapy or counseling to help you begin

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Speaker 4: to emotionally distance yourself from your parents and your family

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Speaker 4: calling you like ten or twenty times when you're not

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Speaker 4: responding is like, I don't know that I would never

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Speaker 4: hear they would never hear from me again.

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Speaker 3: You know, well I can't. I can't do that.

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Speaker 5: You do have a pretty big rebellious spirit.

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Speaker 3: But I don't know.

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Speaker 5: I don't know if a lot of people have that

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Speaker 5: kind of confidence or drive.

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean, I'm like the first time, but it's

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Speaker 4: like if this is just like I don't know, this

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Speaker 4: just pattern of like, well, she relies on the oversight,

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Speaker 4: Like I don't know that, I'm.

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Speaker 5: She relies on them constantly money.

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Speaker 4: I wonder if there's something else here, like maybe there

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Speaker 4: was like a mental health crisis when she was younger

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Speaker 4: or something.

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Speaker 3: Now the parents are like super hyper, like they just

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Speaker 3: don't like vigilant little girls.

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Speaker 5: They don't like women, and the dad's weird.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the mom's.

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Speaker 5: Very overprotecting, and the brother golden job.

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Speaker 3: There's a netit here.

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Speaker 4: They say that they're using spyware because as long as

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Speaker 4: we're paying your bills, we have a right to the

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Speaker 4: thing is I'm pretty sure they don't do this with

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Speaker 4: their son, so they could maybe be reasoned with. I've

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Speaker 4: thought of some options, but I want to know if

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Speaker 4: there are any more, or if the ones, or.

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Speaker 2: If these ones are just playing stupid. The main reason

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Speaker 2: I think they're.

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Speaker 4: Doing this is because they want to keep an eye

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Speaker 4: on her location for safety reasons, and make sure she's

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Speaker 4: going to classes and make sure she's doing her work.

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Speaker 2: Those can be achieved without spywear.

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Speaker 4: On apps like my find My or Life three sixty,

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Speaker 4: and she could just willingly share her college account login

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Speaker 4: so they can check on her work. Instead of addressing

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Speaker 4: the spywear immediately after three or four weeks of doing

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Speaker 4: her work and whatever else they ask of her, before

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Speaker 4: they have a chance to repeat themselves, I can send

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Speaker 4: them a message and hope that they listen to me.

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Speaker 2: Op's message would say.

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Speaker 4: Hi, your daughter recently told me how you're monitoring her

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Speaker 4: activity on her devices. I noticed how she's been a

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Speaker 4: lot more reserved over text and over the phone compared

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Speaker 4: excuse me compared to win wear face to face. I'm

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Speaker 4: worried that if this continues, it won't just affect your

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Speaker 4: relationship with her, but cause her to be afraid in

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Speaker 4: everything she does because she won't know if you're watching.

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Speaker 4: I'm sure you're doing this out of concern for her,

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Speaker 4: and I understand because my mama so checks my location

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Speaker 4: and college account, but she also allows me to have

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Speaker 4: a certain level of privacy. Your daughter has been going

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Speaker 4: to classes and completing her assignments on time, and there

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Speaker 4: are other ways to check those things. I think it

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Speaker 4: would make her feel a lot better and make it

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Speaker 4: a lot easier for her to get her work done,

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Speaker 4: socialize and go out without being concerned that you're seeing

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Speaker 4: everything she does. Pretty much just skipping the do what

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Speaker 4: they want for a month part of the first plan

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Speaker 4: and straight to talk to them because they listen to

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Speaker 4: me part. I'll say the same exact thing is above,

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Speaker 4: minus the part where I say you've seen she's been

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Speaker 4: doing the work. A bit riskier, but I think this

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Speaker 4: one has a higher chance of success the one. This

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Speaker 4: one involves finding a way to reach out to her

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Speaker 4: brother without them knowing. They used to be closer, so

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Speaker 4: the plan hinges on that. But who knows if he'll

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Speaker 4: flip easily because they've got him a car. He's at

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Speaker 4: an Ivy League school and they aren't as close as

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Speaker 4: they used to be. If he does talk to them,

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Speaker 4: it might cause them to reevaluate their behavior, or maybe

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Speaker 4: me though, just go oh, you didn't want to talk

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Speaker 4: to us, so you went to your brother.

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Speaker 2: Keep him out of this.

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Speaker 4: This will probably solve the immediate problem, but obviously there

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Speaker 4: will be a lot of consequences to deal with later.

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Speaker 4: We wait until they're too busy to check her phone,

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Speaker 4: or until it's late at night and we find the

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Speaker 4: program on her phone and remove it. I don't know

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Speaker 4: much about spyware, but I doubt it's some deeply embedded

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Speaker 4: program from a virus or malware. Instead, just an app

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Speaker 4: hidden on her phone that we can delete, or if

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Speaker 4: we can't find anything, we wait for a time during

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Speaker 4: the day to go see someone in tech support and see.

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Speaker 3: If they can get it removed.

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Speaker 4: I'm just concerned for her because I know that the

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Speaker 4: longer this goes on, the worser relationship with her parents

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Speaker 4: will get. I've told her there's no shame in maintaining

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Speaker 4: a good relationship, just long enough so she can finish

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Speaker 4: her education and become independent, which won't be for at

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Speaker 4: least about a year and a half. While she works

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Speaker 4: on her degree, I did make it absolutely clear to

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Speaker 4: her though, that we do if we do have a daughter,

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Speaker 4: I don't want them anywhere near her.

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Speaker 3: And there is an update.

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Speaker 5: It seems like girlfriend's in a tight spot. We know

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Speaker 5: it's wrong, the parents aren't. They're gonna just double down.

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Speaker 5: Brother's gonna keep doing whatever he wants. He's gonna get,

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Speaker 5: you know, like Academy award one day.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 5: He's the best thing ever since Slice Cheese.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he's at the Ivy League. He's at the he's

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Speaker 4: an ivy man.

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Speaker 3: Look.

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Speaker 4: I think your move is you deal with this until

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Speaker 4: you get your degree. You in the meantime, you just

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Speaker 4: get another device that your parents can't spy on. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: use a different communication method like WhatsApp or something, and

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Speaker 4: you download.

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Speaker 5: Another Apple on your phone that kind of like helps

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Speaker 5: out with like phone or whatever. And it's like, oh,

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Speaker 5: so it's like, hey, I don't want to be on

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Speaker 5: my phone as much and then you can just like

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Speaker 5: so they're like, oh, why is she not using her

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Speaker 5: phone all the time.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm just like, oh, I'm off my phone. I'm

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Speaker 4: writing everything down now. Days later, today we were hoping

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Speaker 4: to go see a movie, but because she didn't do

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Speaker 4: too well on an exam a couple of weeks ago.

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Speaker 3: They're forcing her to stay in and study.

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Speaker 2: They said, we are tracking you, so we'll no if

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Speaker 2: you leave.

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Speaker 4: I told her she could just leave her phone and

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Speaker 4: we could walk to the theater together, but she said

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Speaker 4: they have another way of tracking her, which is the

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Speaker 4: tile tracker on her apartment key. I told her if

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Speaker 4: she wanted to go out tonight, she could just remove that,

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Speaker 4: but she claims that her parents are notified when she

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Speaker 4: removes the keychain as well.

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Speaker 3: She tried removing it before and she got a text

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Speaker 3: from her.

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Speaker 4: Dad saying, why did you remove the device that was

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Speaker 4: part of the deal went giving you a car and independence?

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Speaker 2: How to make your child resent you? One oh one?

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Speaker 2: You do you pull this? This is insane.

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Speaker 4: How do you say that you gave someone independence in

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Speaker 4: the same breath that you're like, why did you remove

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Speaker 4: the tracking device I have on you at all times?

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Speaker 4: I gave you your independence? Yes, you can't. Those don't

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Speaker 4: go together. I'm so mad. Now we have a little

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Speaker 4: bit more story left.

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Speaker 5: If it's getting to a part, like a point where

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Speaker 5: your mental insanity cannot take it anymore and you can't

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Speaker 5: put it on a back burner. They're overbearing to a point.

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Speaker 5: If you're tolerance is high, you could probably keep it

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Speaker 5: on the back burner until you're set. But if you can't,

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Speaker 5: might have to go with the car. If the boy

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Speaker 5: for if OPI, if you're ready to take on some

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Speaker 5: responsibility and share a car, might need to do that.

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Speaker 2: Is your name on the car? I want to know

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Speaker 2: what the names are.

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Speaker 3: There's your name on the car? Is it paid off?

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Speaker 2: It's absolutely, There's definitely no way your name's on the car.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but yeah, I would say stick it out, get

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Speaker 4: your degree, find better workarounds for the tracking, Get an

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Speaker 4: extra key to your apartment, get an extra get a

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Speaker 4: second you.

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Speaker 3: Know, burner, go phone, you know.

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Speaker 4: Uh, and then yeah, honestly, like as soon as you

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Speaker 4: have your degree and you go out and you're like

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Speaker 4: trying to like start and build up your own life

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Speaker 4: completely ghost your parents, they would they would not be

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Speaker 4: hearing from me again for a long long time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, let's finish this story.

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Speaker 4: I know that they're tracking her via her phone and keychain.

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Speaker 4: I think that'll be simple enough to solve, unless removing

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Speaker 4: the keychain really does send a notification I'm guessing there's

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Speaker 4: a tracker in her car somewhere too, so if there's

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Speaker 4: a way to.

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Speaker 3: Deal with that, I'd like to know as well.

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Speaker 4: She says her dad has some kind of premium version

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Speaker 4: of Life three point sixty that he paid almost one

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Speaker 4: hundred dollars for, and there are some comments when she

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Speaker 4: can go out next take her to a locksmith and

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Speaker 4: get them to make a copy of her apartment key

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Speaker 4: without the tile tracker. Opie says, I wish that were possible,

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Speaker 4: but hers isn't the kind of key that can be copied.

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Speaker 4: It functions like a key card, but it's shaped more

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Speaker 4: like a key. Basically, it can't be copied. Yes, you can, coming,

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Speaker 4: Ober two says ugh, yeah, unless she can afford to

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Speaker 4: cut contact with them. I'm worried that getting rid of

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Speaker 4: the spyware or otherwise defying them might make them return

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Speaker 4: all on your girlfriend. Maybe see if she or you

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Speaker 4: can buy a burner phone so she can use it

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Speaker 4: for anything private and use the phone with the spyware

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Speaker 4: for other random stuff so it's not suspicious. Opie says.

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Speaker 4: That's what another sub recommended. I'm getting my mom a

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Speaker 4: new phone soon. In a couple months, so I'm hoping

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Speaker 4: that she agrees to let me give my girlfriend her

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Speaker 4: old phone instead of trading it in. I've told my

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Speaker 4: mom plenty about her parents, and she agrees with how

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Speaker 4: disgusted I am. Fingers crossed that we can get well

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Speaker 4: paying jobs as soon as possible in literally any other

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Speaker 4: place in the country once we're both done with undergrad

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Speaker 4: She talked about how much she loved the Northeast when

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Speaker 4: her family went there to.

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Speaker 3: Drop her brothers off.

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Speaker 4: Her brother off, So somewhere with good job and education

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Speaker 4: opportunities for her to finish training in her chosen field,

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Speaker 4: good people and low enough cost of living for a

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Speaker 4: couple is what we're hoping for.

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Speaker 3: And that is the end of that story.

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Speaker 5: My polly partner is falling for his coworker and it's

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Speaker 5: breaking my heart.

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Speaker 2: Oh don't go break in my heart.

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Speaker 5: My resting partner twenty nine, mel I thirty four, non binary,

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Speaker 5: have been together for almost eight years, polynamorous for three.

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Speaker 5: I call my nesting partner Dennis. For the purposes of

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Speaker 5: the story. Our journey was a little wonky as we

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Speaker 5: started off as a newbie inexperienced polyfolks, and our relationship

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Speaker 5: became functionally monogamous as busy adulthood ran us over. Eventually,

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Speaker 5: we did some reading and worked together and waited our

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Speaker 5: way into polynamorous in earnest By the way, this comes

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Speaker 5: from enthusiasts, and if you wants in your own stories,

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Speaker 5: go to the r slash Okay storytime subredits.

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Speaker 3: I'm Riley, I'm Dakota, I'm keon Andy.

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Speaker 2: We're here to give.

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Speaker 5: Good advice ruefully, but we don't have all the answers. Well,

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Speaker 5: you know what we do know, so let us know

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Speaker 5: what you know in the comments down below. As Op says,

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Speaker 5: for the most part, our progress has been steady. I

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Speaker 5: have two other partners and he has one. We've talked

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Speaker 5: about polynamory being a great fit for us and how

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Speaker 5: it enables us to explore relationships with people we care about.

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Speaker 5: The one reoccurring theme is that Denis gets huge amounts

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Speaker 5: of n R Editor's Note new relationship energy, also sometimes

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Speaker 5: referred to as the honeymoon phase in a relationship when

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Speaker 5: he meets someone new and there's a mutual attraction. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 5: most of the time these people end up either not

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Speaker 5: open to n M Editor's Note E and M or

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Speaker 5: ethical non monogamy a broad term for relationship structures where

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Speaker 5: partners consentually have romantic or spicy related connections with more

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Speaker 5: than one person, or are brand new to it. I've

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Speaker 5: supported him through many bounts of grieving when he realizes

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Speaker 5: a relationship can't possibly happen, or crashes and burns because

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Speaker 5: the other person realizes E and M isn't for them.

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Speaker 5: His first relationship with a childhood friend who ended up

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Speaker 5: wanting to cowgirl him exploded spectacularly and put us all

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Speaker 5: through a huge amount of pain. Wanted to cowgirl him.

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Speaker 6: In polyamorous context, a cowgirl is a monogamous person who

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Speaker 6: deliberately enters a relationship with a polyamorous individual with the

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Speaker 6: goal of convincing them to abandon their other partners and

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Speaker 6: become exclusively monogamous with them.

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Speaker 5: We're at the point in our lives where we own

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Speaker 5: a small business that we operate on Saturdays together, have

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Speaker 5: two beautiful greyhounds, and only a couple of months away

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Speaker 5: from moving into our dream house, which we purchased in

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty and has undergone a ton of renovations. A

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Speaker 5: renovation process that should have taken six months has now

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Speaker 5: been over two years in the making. We also want

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Speaker 5: to expand our business soon to a standalone space and

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Speaker 5: make it our full time gig. A few months ago,

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Speaker 5: Dennis told me about one of his staff where he works.

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Speaker 5: We'll call her Cheryl, twenty five female. Dennis works in

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Speaker 5: a small corporate cafe space. While Cheryl isn't his direct report,

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Speaker 5: he is the employee of Dennis's co manager. Dennis and

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Speaker 5: his co manager work closely together to manager this space

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Speaker 5: as a team, and Dennis often will ask her staff

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Speaker 5: to do task on her behalf if she's not available.

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Speaker 5: The team is a small and tight knit and they

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Speaker 5: regularly go out for beers and to play pool together.

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Speaker 5: Dennis told me that he and Cheryl have a flirty

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Speaker 5: relationship at work, to the point where his co manager

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Speaker 5: had to tell Cheryl to dial a back a notch,

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Speaker 5: and they had mutually expressed interest in each other. Shall

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Speaker 5: has never been in an E ANDM relationship. He asked

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Speaker 5: me my opinion about the situation. I told him truthfully

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Speaker 5: that I thought that this was a really bad idea

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Speaker 5: to date a member of a staff from both an

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Speaker 5: ethical perspective and a logistical standpoint. As an HR professional.

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Speaker 5: In my day job. I also told him I'd be

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Speaker 5: very hesitant to start a business or remain in a

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Speaker 5: relationship with someone who couldn't draw that line in the sand.

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Speaker 5: He was disappointed, but seemed to take it in and

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Speaker 5: appreciate my perspective. A week or two later, a stressful

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Speaker 5: situation at his work happened Afternis had gone out with

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Speaker 5: his other partner. Cheryl had previously expressed that she didn't

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Speaker 5: want to hear about his dates with other people, but

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Speaker 5: also was suspicious about his whereabouts the night before, as

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Speaker 5: he had simply told her he had plans. He told

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Speaker 5: her that he had been on a date and that

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Speaker 5: she was called to him for the rest of the

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Speaker 5: day and told him she didn't want to talk. Dennis

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Speaker 5: ended up leaving work early because of the stress, and

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Speaker 5: Cheryl ended up calling out of work the next day,

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Speaker 5: and it spent forty eight hours feeling stressed out because

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Speaker 5: she refused to talk to him outside of a couple

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Speaker 5: of passive aggressive messages along the lines of how long

389
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,480
Speaker 5: have you been with this girl? And how long have

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00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:47,320
Speaker 5: you been lying to me? Eventually, the situation cooled off,

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00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:51,200
Speaker 5: and Cheryl did apologize for how she reacted, especially since

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Speaker 5: they weren't together, and they went back to being flirty

393
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Speaker 5: but platonic at work. A few weeks ago, I noticed

394
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:01,720
Speaker 5: Dennis acting nervous and less of affectionate the normal. He

395
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,199
Speaker 5: asked to talk. I made us dinner, and then he

396
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:08,040
Speaker 5: expressed that he is incredibly close with Cheryl and wanted

397
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Speaker 5: to talk to me about ethical implications of dating her.

398
00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,800
Speaker 5: In summary, he isn't her direct manager and doesn't have

399
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Speaker 5: a lot of power over her outside of asking her

400
00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:23,080
Speaker 5: to do some work related tests. He's genuinely interested in

401
00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,040
Speaker 5: a relationship with her and expressed that he would work

402
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,600
Speaker 5: hard to ensure there wouldn't be favoritism at work, and

403
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,159
Speaker 5: their feelings for each other are very strong. He spoke

404
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,320
Speaker 5: with others who work in the same industry as him,

405
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,000
Speaker 5: and the opinions he got validated his own feelings. He

406
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:43,160
Speaker 5: feels that she is opening into learning about E and M,

407
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:47,600
Speaker 5: though admitted she hadn't cracked open the book yet. He

408
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:49,520
Speaker 5: had loaned her about the subject.

409
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Speaker 3: Whatever.

410
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:52,879
Speaker 4: People are free to do whatever they want, being like

411
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Speaker 4: I just this to me is like, like should we

412
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Speaker 4: be wearing shoes? Like no, Like the natural way is

413
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,320
Speaker 4: to like not wear shoes, right, That's the way we

414
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,200
Speaker 4: were built. We were built to be barefooted.

415
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,919
Speaker 2: But then if you run a five k with no

416
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,520
Speaker 2: shoes on and you have blisters all over your feet,

417
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,879
Speaker 2: you can't then go, well, what's going on here? I

418
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:19,000
Speaker 2: couldn't have possibly anticipated that. Now I have to deal

419
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Speaker 2: with this new layer of the blisters on my feet.

420
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Speaker 5: Yeah, like, yeah, if you would have ran slower, maybe

421
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,920
Speaker 5: you'd been fine, if you would have walked. It take

422
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Speaker 5: a couple of days.

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Speaker 3: To finish it.

424
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,719
Speaker 5: I responded that he doesn't have to have admin related

425
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,800
Speaker 5: powers over her. There's still a dynamic at play that

426
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 5: creates invisible but tangible obstacles in the workspace. For a

427
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:46,840
Speaker 5: manager staff relationship, even with the best intentions, there could

428
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,639
Speaker 5: be some consequences, such as toxicity from the other staff

429
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:55,200
Speaker 5: due to perceiving favoritism, the possibility of HR getting involved

430
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:59,320
Speaker 5: and them losing their jobs, or drama from their relationship

431
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:03,840
Speaker 5: spilling over into work. They hadn't been dating when she

432
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 5: had a jealous blow up at him large enough to

433
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 5: call his multi day drama at work and in our

434
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 5: home life. His first relationship had been a hot mess

435
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,280
Speaker 5: because he and the girl hadn't jointly done the work

436
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:20,640
Speaker 5: to build a solid foundation for an e NM relationship,

437
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,119
Speaker 5: that he was repeating the exact scenario now, and that

438
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,800
Speaker 5: I was going to lose patience for not having to

439
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 5: go through the identical, predictable drama again. I would not

440
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 5: stay with someone who couldn't see the ethical implications of

441
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Speaker 5: dating their subordinate, nor would I start a business with

442
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,879
Speaker 5: someone with the history of doing so. I suggested that

443
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,080
Speaker 5: if this is something he really wants to pursue, there

444
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,120
Speaker 5: are many avenues for doing so that are a lot

445
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:52,359
Speaker 5: less of an ethical gray area, such as waiting until

446
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,720
Speaker 5: they're no longer working together, communicating the company's HR department,

447
00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,080
Speaker 5: and seeing if one of them could be moved to

448
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:01,160
Speaker 5: a different space, or.

449
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 3: Finding a different job.

450
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,480
Speaker 5: I don't, honestly, I don't think you should be with

451
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,399
Speaker 5: this guy because it doesn't seem like he's on the

452
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:09,199
Speaker 5: same page with you.

453
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 3: When you say.

454
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 5: I not on the same page, I got.

455
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 2: I don't know, bro, I got.

456
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,679
Speaker 4: I got nothing to say other than, like every for

457
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:25,159
Speaker 4: every story I read where it's like ethical non monogamy

458
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 4: works out, I feel like there's fifteen where it doesn't,

459
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 4: and all they want to do is try to pretend

460
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 4: like it's working or like one day it'll work, or

461
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,439
Speaker 4: that somehow it's better and they just need to figure

462
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 4: out why.

463
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,160
Speaker 2: It's better and then one day they'll they'll understand it.

464
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 2: I don't know it.

465
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,640
Speaker 3: Just this feels like a mistake.

466
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, He's clearly like this is this just does it

467
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:53,880
Speaker 2: doesn't sound like.

468
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:54,440
Speaker 3: You want this?

469
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, So if you don't want this and he doesn't

470
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 4: care that you don't, then it's no longer you're ethical.

471
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 5: He was unhappy with all of those suggestions, as he

472
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 5: wanted to act on these feelings so a relationship could

473
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 5: develop organically, but didn't want to get higher ups involved

474
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,959
Speaker 5: in his personal life and didn't want to have to

475
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,239
Speaker 5: force a big life change in changing jobs just to

476
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,919
Speaker 5: be in a relationship with her. It esculated into a

477
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 5: horrible fight and things have been tense between us ever since.

478
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 5: He has since expressed that he feels I am restricting

479
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 5: him and telling him who he can and can't date.

480
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 5: He's also now said that he's uncertain about everything now,

481
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 5: including our relationship, expanding our business soon, and Polynamory itself.

482
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,160
Speaker 5: He told me he has been unhappy for a while now.

483
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 5: He doesn't want to blow up his life and into

484
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,400
Speaker 5: a relationship bud, He's upset and frustrated with my stance

485
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 5: and is no longer certain about what he wants. He's

486
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:56,679
Speaker 5: even acknowledged perhaps this due to an ore new relationship energy,

487
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,679
Speaker 5: but he feels so strongly for Cheryl that he feels stuck.

488
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,959
Speaker 5: He says that Cheryl makes him feel special, makes him

489
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 5: feel wanted, tells him you're my favorite person, and calls

490
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,360
Speaker 5: him handsome at work all the time. The other night,

491
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 5: when he went out for adult sodas and pool with

492
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 5: his staff, I was doing a bit of cleaning around

493
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 5: our shared apartment when I found what looked like a

494
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,120
Speaker 5: pile of her seats on his nightstand. When I went

495
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 5: to go through them, I realized they were thirty plus

496
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,919
Speaker 5: love notes from Cheryl, calling him baby, handsome, saying things

497
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 5: like I just can't effing help myself around you. My

498
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 5: heart was racing, and when he got back, I asked

499
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,439
Speaker 5: him to be honest and tell me if he was

500
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 5: already in a relationship with her. He told me no,

501
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 5: that the notes were from much earlier, when his co

502
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 5: manager had asked her to dial it back the flirtiness,

503
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,919
Speaker 5: and before they had their conversation about remaining platonic. She

504
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 5: since toned down the constant note leaving, but they made

505
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 5: him feel special and he wanted to keep him. We

506
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,439
Speaker 5: had a few more conversations about the situation, and he

507
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 5: did apologize for how he was acting towards me, but

508
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 5: that he felt hurt, manipulated, and controlled and was trying

509
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 5: not to take it out on me. I asked him

510
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 5: to still show up for our relationship and asked him

511
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 5: to take the time and think things through before making

512
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 5: any rash decisions. I also feel as though me being

513
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 5: busy for the last year made me less attentive and

514
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 5: present partner. I've taken a break from theater, from my

515
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 5: own mental and well being, and to take more time

516
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,199
Speaker 5: to work on my relationship.

517
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 4: I feel like you did the wrong thing. I feel

518
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 4: like you should have taken time off from your relationships

519
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 4: and focused more on theater.

520
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 3: You know.

521
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 2: I think we did the inverse of what was the

522
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 2: right move there.

523
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 4: I think, hey, maybe maybe we're finding out that balancing

524
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 4: all these relationships is not something we enjoy doing, and

525
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 4: we actually don't have to do it. We can work

526
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 4: on our passions like theater instead of having to balance

527
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 4: four people at the same time while one of them

528
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 4: is emotionally cheating on you with his coworker who's leaving

529
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 4: him thirty love notes.

530
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 2: Then he has to keep because they make him feel special.

531
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:20,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, I wonder what emotional what an emotional relationship within

532
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 5: a poly relationship looks like.

533
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 4: I think it's keeping thirty plus love notes because they

534
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 4: make you feel they stroke your ego.

535
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,360
Speaker 5: We've agreed to work on our relationship and seek advice

536
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 5: from a poly friendly therapist to work through this enpase,

537
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 5: and to at least wait until we've moved back into

538
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 5: our home in case part of the existential crisis has

539
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 5: to do with us being in survival mode for the

540
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 5: last couple of years.

541
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 4: Personally, I think it'd be better if you went to

542
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 4: a poly unfriendly therapist and then you do it on

543
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 4: hard mode, where you actually have to convince the therapist

544
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:01,199
Speaker 4: that what you're doing is better for you than if

545
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 4: you didn't have multiple partners, and that would probably make

546
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 4: you very resolute in your decision. And if they can

547
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 4: convince you otherwise, then I guess it wasn't really as

548
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 4: important to you as you think it is.

549
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 5: He's considering a few avenues but isn't sure how to

550
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 5: move forward. Alie fundamentally disagreed on the ethnics of the situation. Updates,

551
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 5: any thoughts, any predictions. I think OPI is going to

552
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 5: drop Dennis, and I think she should.

553
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, my cat's name is Karen.

554
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 4: Is getting the point I was trying to make, which

555
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,679
Speaker 4: is the polyamory therapist, the pro poly therapist is just

556
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 4: going to support a poly lifestyle, which is kind of

557
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 4: an echo chamber. I don't think you have to go

558
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 4: to someone who's anti Polly, but I think you should

559
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 4: just go to like a normal like a more generalized

560
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 4: relationship counselor or a therapist well, so that you can

561
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 4: get more on like just like a level basis of

562
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 4: like what's what's going to work versus what how to

563
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 4: make the situation that's not working if work.

564
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 5: If I'm seeing a therapist, I'm gonna find one with

565
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 5: a Christian background. I'm not gonna find that's what's gonna

566
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 5: I'm gonna be like, Oh, they kind of see where

567
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 5: my headspaces, and they're gonna put me in the right direction.

568
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 5: If I went for someone else in the background that

569
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 5: I don't. I don't I'm not really like you know,

570
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:21,360
Speaker 5: understanding in like I don't know someone that specializes in

571
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 5: like like horrible trauma that I feel like that's not

572
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,719
Speaker 5: that could help someone else. But it's it's not like

573
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 5: the uh, it's like the power ups. It's not the

574
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 5: power ups that I'm looking for, is what I'm trying

575
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 5: to say.

576
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 4: Like a but like instead of like a Christian therapist,

577
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 4: it could just be like a therapist that specializes in

578
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 4: religion instead of a poly therapist. That should be like

579
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 4: a therapist that specializes in relationships.

580
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 3: Like I'm not saying they have to be like anti.

581
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 4: Whatever you're going, Oh, okay, God, I'm just saying that

582
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 4: it's like maybe just go to a and it don't Yeah,

583
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 4: don't I feel like that's looking for vet Yeah.

584
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 3: Whatever.

585
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 5: Update. Dennis has been cold to me all week, thing

586
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 5: he needed time to think about what he wanted. We

587
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 5: slept slepardly, and he went out most nights this week

588
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 5: to visit family as well as to have dinner with

589
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 5: a friend. He said we talk on Sunday once he's

590
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 5: gathered its thoughts. I spent days being stolen, walled, crying,

591
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 5: with my stomach and nuts. I lost a few pounds

592
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:27,479
Speaker 5: from no appetite and was holding a pattern of terrible anxiety. Finally, tonight,

593
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 5: he came home from work. I set out a nice

594
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 5: dinner and cocktails for us, and had taken care of

595
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 5: his task for our Saturday business so he could relax.

596
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 5: I couldn't hold myself together and started crying while I

597
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 5: tried to eat. He ignored me and kept eating while

598
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 5: I cried. I finally came back to the table and

599
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 5: said I wanted to respect his wish to not talk

600
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 5: until Sunday, but my anxiety was through the roof, and

601
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 5: if our relationship was over, I wanted him to tell

602
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 5: me rather than drag it out for days. He finally

603
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 5: said it was over and said that he wanted to

604
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 5: wait until Sunday to figure out what to say. Dude,

605
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 5: if it's over, just say it what. Don't just eat,

606
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 5: don't just get big in free mills until then, just

607
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 5: say it's over?

608
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 3: What say what you're thinking?

609
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 4: I mean, there are situations where it's like, yeah, there's

610
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 4: a time and place for things to be said, but like,

611
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 4: you know, I don't know that it doesn't it doesn't

612
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 4: read like that's the situation right now. It's like, oh,

613
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 4: if someone just had like I don't know, wait, when

614
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 4: is the right time to do that, Like if someone

615
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 4: just had like the best day of their life, it's like,

616
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 4: do you also like break up with them that day

617
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 4: and ruin it? Or like do you wait a little

618
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 4: longer so they still just get to have that, or like,

619
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 4: I don't know.

620
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 3: I broke up with.

621
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 4: A girl once in high school because we had done

622
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 4: a long distance thing and then like I've it, didn't

623
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 4: I've got back and realized I had no feelings for

624
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 4: her whatsoever anymore, and was like, oh, dang, I gotta

625
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 4: break up there like immediately, and she had just gotten

626
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 4: a cat, and I felt guilty because I was like, oh,

627
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 4: now she's gonna remember the cat as like like me

628
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 4: breaking up with her cat. And then I told my

629
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 4: mom that and she was like, no, she's not stupid.

630
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 4: She's gonna remember that as like the cat that like

631
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 4: was there for her. She's gonna love the cat. You're fine,

632
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 4: you didn't ruin the cat. And I was like, oh, yeah,

633
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 4: I guess that was kind of like self absorbed a

634
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 4: little bit for me to think that I ruined the cat.

635
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 5: He went on an impassioned speech about how he hadn't

636
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 5: been happy in a long time, and realized that he

637
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 5: just wasn't Polly. I begged him to still go to

638
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 5: therapy with me, even if it were to just get

639
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 5: some closure and learn what we could have done better,

640
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 5: and he refused, saying he didn't believe therapy could fix us.

641
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 5: I was upset and asked why, after eight years, a

642
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 5: house and a business together, he couldn't have said something sooner.

643
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 5: I then asked again if he was already with Cheryl.

644
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 5: He froze, said, we're really close emotionally, I guess. I asked,

645
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 5: did you sleep with her?

646
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 3: Kiss her?

647
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 5: You think that he did the dirty spicy tango with.

648
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 3: I don't know.

649
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 4: I think if he did, he probably wouldn't even be

650
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 4: honest about it, Yeah, I think, or who knows, maybe

651
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 4: he would be because he'd be like, this will make

652
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 4: her leave me, because I know I don't want I

653
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 4: just don't want this to drag out. Maybe if she

654
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 4: just hates me, because clearly he doesn't care about your feelings. Yeah,

655
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 4: he watched you go to the bathroom and sob and

656
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 4: did nothing, so he'd probably be like, yeah, if she

657
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 4: hates me, the breakup will be faster and cleaner. Yeah,

658
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 4: But like, yeah, I don't know clearly this was a

659
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 4: misguided attempt to salvage the dying embers of your relationship,

660
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 4: and you clearly trusted him a lot, and I'm sorry

661
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 4: that he uh you know it's your trust.

662
00:32:55,160 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 5: He admitted he had kissed her yesterday at while I

663
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 5: was waiting for him at home with my stomach and

664
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 5: notts and staring down the barrel of our possible end

665
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 5: before we ever got to our conversation on Sunday, I

666
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 5: asked him why he couldn't have been honest with me,

667
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 5: and he couldn't give me an answer. I told him

668
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 5: to pack a bag and get out of our apartment

669
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 5: and leave his keys behind. He staying with his brother.

670
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 5: Fleet to people, including one of my other partners and

671
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 5: some friends rallied at my doorstep. All of them held

672
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 5: me as I cried, reassured me as I asked why

673
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 5: I wasn't worth going to therapy with, and told me

674
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 5: my value wasn't predicted on Dennis's behavior and handling of

675
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 5: the whole situation. They wouldn't let me clean up the

676
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 5: half eaten dinner still sitting on the table, or walk

677
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 5: my dogs myself. My one partner is sleeping beside me,

678
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,479
Speaker 5: as I try to get some sleep, and my friends

679
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 5: are showing up tomorrow to work the cash register of

680
00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 5: my business in Dennis's absence.

681
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be okay.

682
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 5: You got a lot of support. Dennis gouldn't handel. This

683
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 5: is gonna do it. And that's the end of the story.

684
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 5: We're gonna read the next one.

685
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: Sam here ogi host. We're gonna get back to these stories.

686
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 1: But here's three minutes fads from our sponsors.

687
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 4: First, my ex wanted our baby for adoption, but I

688
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 4: won't let it happen.

689
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 2: You gotta have our baby.

690
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 4: I'm twenty three. My ex girlfriend is twenty. We met

691
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 4: in college. I've since graduated, but she has two years left.

692
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 4: She's twenty one weeks pregnant and wants to put the

693
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 4: baby up for adoption. She was around fourteen weeks pregnant

694
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 4: when she told me she was pregnant. We had already

695
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 4: broken up two months before that, and I honestly had

696
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,280
Speaker 4: no idea she was pregnant. She said she needed space

697
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 4: to make her own decision, and that's why she didn't

698
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,320
Speaker 4: tell me. By the way, this comes from user Alarming

699
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 4: Risk fifteen thirteen, And if you want to submit your

700
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 4: own stories.

701
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 2: Go to the r slash showcase storytime subredit.

702
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 4: I'm Dakota, I'm Sophia, and we're here to give you

703
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 4: good advice.

704
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:56,720
Speaker 2: Goofily, But we don't have all the answers.

705
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 4: We only know what we would do, So if you

706
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 4: would do something different, let us know in the comments.

707
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 2: As Op says, from the.

708
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 4: Moment she told me she was pregnant, I told her

709
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 4: I would support whatever decision she made. I respect that

710
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 4: it's her decision. I believe in a woman's right to

711
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 4: choose and all that. I feel guilty that I.

712
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 2: Got her pregnant.

713
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 4: I'm internally panicking at the idea of a baby, and

714
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 4: the idea of being a father is wild and unreal

715
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 4: to me right now. But when she told me she

716
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 4: was planning to put the baby up for adoption, it

717
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 4: felt like it didn't sit right with me. She's already

718
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 4: connected with an adoption agency and looking at possible adoptive families.

719
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,240
Speaker 4: In no way do I think she should be forced

720
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 4: to be a parent. I would never want to contribute

721
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,280
Speaker 4: to that. I completely understand her reasoning. It's just making

722
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,720
Speaker 4: me feel sick. I don't know if I can consent

723
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 4: to it. I've started researching contested adoptions. I think it's

724
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 4: sort of crazy, and I'd have to be willing and

725
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 4: prepared to deletely support and parent the baby on my

726
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 4: own and.

727
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 2: Be able to prove it.

728
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 4: I feel guilty thinking about coming in and ruining all

729
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 4: of her plans. Maybe it wouldn't be that, Maybe it

730
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 4: wouldn't be fair to anyone for me to do that.

731
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,320
Speaker 4: But I'm becoming more uncomfortable with the idea of adoption

732
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 4: every day. I've not told her how I feel because

733
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 4: I know it took her a while to come to

734
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 4: her decision.

735
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 3: And there's an update oo.

736
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 2: I don't know, man.

737
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:27,359
Speaker 3: I think we've read a.

738
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 7: Lot of stories like you know where we have this situation.

739
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 7: I think that you you can't ask her to do anything.

740
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 7: You can't ask her to be a parent to this kid. You, however,

741
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 7: can maybe contest you know, the adoption and say I

742
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,240
Speaker 7: want to take care of this child.

743
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 3: But I think that you need to.

744
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 7: Take stock of what that means because you will be

745
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 7: a single parent because she doesn't want to take care

746
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 7: of this child. She doesn't want to be a mother

747
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 7: to the child, so therefore you are a parent alone.

748
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 7: You are young, how old.

749
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 3: Are they He's like twenty two three.

750
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 2: You're young.

751
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,720
Speaker 7: I don't know if you're financially you know, in the position,

752
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 7: but just like, take take a look out of everything

753
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 7: that this is going to entail and what it requires

754
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 7: of you. And if at the end of the day, like,

755
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 7: do you have support from family members and friends, And

756
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,399
Speaker 7: if at the end of that you are like, yes,

757
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 7: I think I can do it. I don't want to

758
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,320
Speaker 7: give up my child. Then talk to her and say

759
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 7: I've looked at all these options. I'm not asking you

760
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,879
Speaker 7: to be involved, but I want you know, I don't

761
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 7: want to put up the child, put the child up

762
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 7: for adoption. I want to take her.

763
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 2: You got to weigh it all, weigh it all up.

764
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 4: I would really hope if you had the family support

765
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 4: there as well. And we do have the update, no

766
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 4: huge update. Really, I've decided that just sitting here passively

767
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 4: and not saying anything won't keep me anywhere. My ex

768
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 4: and I are in regular communication. We don't talk day,

769
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 4: but we text every few days. She told me she

770
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 4: can't find any adoptive parents that feel right yet. She

771
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 4: really wants me to start looking at the stuff the

772
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 4: adoption agency is sent I told her, I skimmed some stuff,

773
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 4: but it doesn't really feel good. That was my opening

774
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 4: to tell her, I'm really not sure how I feel

775
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 4: about adoption and having second thoughts regarding my own desire

776
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 4: to parent my child or not. She asked me what

777
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 4: I was really trying to say, and I tried to

778
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 4: communicate that I'm not saying she should keep the baby.

779
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 3: And be a parent right now.

780
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,399
Speaker 4: I understand why this is the best decision for her,

781
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 4: but I'm not sure if it's the best decision for me.

782
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 3: She said, what, You're going to be.

783
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 2: A single dad?

784
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 3: Ha ha ha ha.

785
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 4: I told her, maybe it's not that crazy. She said

786
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 4: it is crazy, and quote, don't do this to me.

787
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 4: She basically feels like if I do that, even if

788
00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 4: I don't hold it against her, she's still legally the mom.

789
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 4: Suddenly she'll be this horrible parent who isn't involved with

790
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 4: her child at all. By placing the baby with another family,

791
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 4: she breaks the legal tie and she doesn't have to feel.

792
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 2: Like she's quite as crappy of a person.

793
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 4: Even my own mom is unsure of how to feel

794
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 4: about what I'm considering, but she would support me.

795
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:27,720
Speaker 2: She understands my feelings.

796
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,240
Speaker 4: About not wanting my child to be raised by other people,

797
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 4: but worries I'm biting off more than I can chew.

798
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 4: She still supports me one hundred percent. She thinks it's crazy,

799
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,359
Speaker 4: but she also thinks I can do it if it's

800
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:39,919
Speaker 4: what I want.

801
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 2: I admittedly cried like a baby to my.

802
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 4: Mom, and in true mom fashion, she thinks I need

803
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 4: to follow my heart.

804
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 2: And there is a second update.

805
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 4: I've decided to pursue custody of my child and will

806
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 4: not be consenting to an adoption. My ex may or

807
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 4: may not still try to pursue adoption. There's no way

808
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 4: to know right now, because she hasn't talked to me

809
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 4: since I told her I was uncomfortable with.

810
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,320
Speaker 2: Adoption and exploring my own options.

811
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 4: I have a consultation with the lawyer next week. In

812
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 4: the meantime, I contacted the appropriate local county health departments.

813
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 4: I can add myself to the punitive Punitive Father registry

814
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 4: in the current state she's in. I've already downloaded the

815
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 4: form and will get it notarized and sent off on Monday.

816
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 4: This will do nothing to establish paternity, but will hopefully

817
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 4: mean that I should be notified should she tried to

818
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 4: place our baby for adoption without informing me herself.

819
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 3: The other state.

820
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 4: If the state she's from and where her family lives

821
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 4: doesn't have a putative father registry, I still need to

822
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 4: establish paternity as soon as the baby is born. That is,

823
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 4: if she even informs me when she gives birth. I'd

824
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 4: really like to be there or be able to get

825
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 4: there as soon as possible, but I have no clue

826
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 4: what she's thinking or planning.

827
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 3: At this point.

828
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 2: I have a clear understanding of my options for establishing

829
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 2: the eternity, and I'm hoping that by then she'll be

830
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 2: willing to sign an affidavit establishing me as the father.

831
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 2: Otherwise I'll need to go through the courts. It's not

832
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 2: like a with a paternity test, not just do that immediately.

833
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 7: Yeah, I don't know, especially you know, well, I.

834
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 2: Guess who's going on the birth certificate.

835
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 7: I don't think that the baby's born yet, no.

836
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 4: But I'm saying when the baby's born, like, who's going

837
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 4: on the birth certificate?

838
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 3: Yeah?

839
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 7: I think they're just saying like they would opt to.

840
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 7: I don't know right now go through that process.

841
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 3: I don't know.

842
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 4: In an ideal world, she would agree to a prenatal

843
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,839
Speaker 4: paternity test. I do believe I'm the father, but that

844
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 4: but it would be nice to have that definitive assurance

845
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 4: before I completely turn my life upside down for this.

846
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 4: Since she's not even talking to me currently, I can't

847
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 4: ask her for that right now. Maybe once she has

848
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 4: a chance to process things, we'll be able to talk

849
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:57,760
Speaker 4: about this more and she'll cooperate. If not, I can't

850
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,479
Speaker 4: force her to do anything and may have to wait

851
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 4: for the test. She is really stubborn, so I can

852
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:07,240
Speaker 4: see her digging her heels in. I'm leaving her alone

853
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 4: right now, but will communicate my decision to her after

854
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 4: I speak with a lawyer. She's around twenty three weeks

855
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,839
Speaker 4: pregnant now. It feels like her due date is still

856
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 4: a long way away. But now that she's seriously looking

857
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:22,319
Speaker 4: at and interviewing potential adoptive families, I felt like I

858
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,919
Speaker 4: couldn't wait much longer to make a decision and move

859
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 4: forward with it. Plus, it will take me at least

860
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 4: that long to figure out logistics. I previously had no

861
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 4: clue how expensive daycare is, or that wait lists are

862
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 4: often months or sometimes over a year long. I need

863
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 4: to save money, start budgeting, maybe even consider moving slightly

864
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 4: closer to family. I haven't figured anything out beyond just

865
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 4: making the decision, but that was probably one of the

866
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 4: hardest parts.

867
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 2: Now that okay, we got up D three, I think

868
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 2: you should probably move in with your family if you're

869
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,839
Speaker 2: going to have a baby, and reason is a.

870
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 7: Single lot of support from a lot of different people.

871
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 7: This is a you know, raised by a village type moment.

872
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 2: If she's down, you should move in. Update three, almost

873
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 2: a year later. WHOA.

874
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 4: I don't expect anyone reading this to remember anything about

875
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 4: my story. Long story short. My ext from college got

876
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 4: pregnant and planned to place our baby for adoption. I

877
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 4: really did try to accept it and go along with it,

878
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 4: but I couldn't wrap my head around having a child

879
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 4: out there.

880
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 2: I've been raising my child.

881
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 4: As a single parent without any real involvement from my ex.

882
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 4: I accepted that this would be the case, and I

883
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 4: respect her choice. I have a very supportive family, so

884
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 4: I have help in that way, for sure, but nobody is.

885
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 2: Raising my daughter for me. My daughter will be six

886
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:46,320
Speaker 2: months on July first.

887
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 7: No, it props to ope because it's you know, you know,

888
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 7: there's a lot of stigma around single fathers.

889
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 2: But props to you, is there?

890
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 7: Yeah? Or just about Like a lot of courts won't

891
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 7: give a child to you know, father, like as primary custody.

892
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 7: There's a lot of around being like we want to

893
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 7: keep this baby with the mother, blah blah blah.

894
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

895
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 4: Imagine that mom's in court being like, no, I don't

896
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:12,839
Speaker 4: want this child, and they're like.

897
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 7: We know we're giving it to you.

898
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:15,280
Speaker 3: We know you're.

899
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 2: Gonna want this child, though, so we're giving it to you.

900
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 3: She's like, don't give me the kid.

901
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 2: I don't want the kid. I won't be good, I'll

902
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 2: be a bad mom. I don't want this kid. I'll

903
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 2: just you give me the kid. I'll just give it

904
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:29,800
Speaker 2: to him anyway.

905
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:32,280
Speaker 5: He's cut out the middleman.

906
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 3: We all know.

907
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 2: That you just want a baby. Goo goo ga ga.

908
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,359
Speaker 2: She's doing really well for the most part. She's been

909
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:41,439
Speaker 2: diagnosed with.

910
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 4: Sandifers syndrome IT and most people, including me, had never

911
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 4: heard of.

912
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:49,800
Speaker 2: She has uncontrollable muscle spasms after.

913
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 4: Eating due to acid reflux, which her original pediatrician brushed off,

914
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 4: making me feel like I was worrying too much or

915
00:44:56,239 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 4: overreacting to her colic and severe projectile vomiting after meals. Luckily,

916
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 4: this isn't a life threatening illness or something that should affect.

917
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 2: Her for the rest of her life.

918
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 4: It should clear up by the time she's a year

919
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 4: to a year and a half old, if not sooner.

920
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 4: She's already doing better with some diet changes and other

921
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:19,839
Speaker 4: changes on my part regarding feeding positions and frequency. The

922
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 4: doctor is held off on putting her on medication and

923
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 4: things she probably won't need it. She developed a secondary

924
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:31,800
Speaker 4: condition called torticullis, which is essentially short right neck muscles

925
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,399
Speaker 4: causing her head to turn to the side, so she's

926
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 4: going to start weekly physical therapy for that. Thankfully, it's

927
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 4: something that can be resolved and isn't a lifelong condition.

928
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 4: I feel bad, even though I've been told repeatedly that

929
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 4: none of this was caused by anything I did. Yeah,

930
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:48,359
Speaker 4: it sounds like just being a parent.

931
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 3: Yeh.

932
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 2: That's my biggest thing about Like, if I was a parent,

933
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 2: I'd just be like I would.

934
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:56,320
Speaker 4: You be stressed and anxious Forever's got.

935
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 2: The rest of my life.

936
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 7: Baby's got so much stuff going on, and then you

937
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:02,720
Speaker 7: get to their not baby, then they got more stuff

938
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 7: and then they I don't know they're running around, they

939
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 7: break a leg, the infinite things that happen with children.

940
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 4: She goes to daycare now, having just started a few

941
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 4: weeks ago. Prior to that, my grandma watched her during

942
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 4: the day, so I was lucky to have that help.

943
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 4: I'm still learning to be comfortable with dropping her off

944
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 4: at daycare. Before she was born, I thought daycare no

945
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 4: big deal. It's hard to trust total strangers with your

946
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 4: kid who can't even talk to tell you what's happening

947
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 4: all day.

948
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 2: Not to mention the cost, but having my grandma to

949
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 2: watch her for the first few months allowed me to

950
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 2: save up a tiny bit.

951
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 4: I've paid off credit cards and vowed not to use

952
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 4: them again, so that credit is in reserve should I

953
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:46,360
Speaker 4: ever have a big emergency. I'm definitely budgeting, and my

954
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 4: sister is into couponing in sales and knows how to

955
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 4: get those deals, so her help has been invaluable financially.

956
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 4: My daughter's mom isn't directly involved at all. I don't

957
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 4: resent her and haven't tried to force her to be involved,

958
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 4: asked her to do anything. She contacted me a few

959
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 4: months ago and wanted to come visit our daughter. We

960
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 4: live in different states. Now, around the time, I started

961
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 4: occasionally sharing pictures with her, but we don't really talk

962
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 4: about how she's feeling or handling any of it.

963
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 2: She went back to school and is focusing on that now.

964
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 2: I feel good. I feel good.

965
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 7: I feel like this went, you know, the best it

966
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 7: could possibly go. Oh p wanted you know, didn't feel

967
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 7: right about giving up the kid. Was like, you know,

968
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 7: I'm gonna make this really huge decision to keep my kid.

969
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 5: And look look at you.

970
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 2: Now, and look at you go, look at you go.

971
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 2: What you've done.

972
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 3: Put your baby in a cone.

973
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 4: Cone baby, fix that next cone baby.

974
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 3: That's what I always say.

975
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 4: Let's finish this story. She never came to visit. She

976
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 4: wanted me to pay for it, and I told her no. Uh,

977
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 4: it wasn't totally a matter of not wanting to, but

978
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 4: I don't have the money. She sent me a really

979
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 4: nice long text on Father's Day. We don't talk unless

980
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 4: it's to give her a little update when she asks.

981
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 4: I guess I feel mixed about sharing the updates and photos,

982
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 4: but I'm trying not to be an a hole about it.

983
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 4: I guess that's all I really have to share. Pretty boring,

984
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 4: but maybe that's a good thing. I received several Father's

985
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 4: Day messages from people here and didn't think anyone would

986
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 4: even remember me months later. So thanks to everyone who

987
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 4: has been following this journey and been kind and supportive.

988
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:31,800
Speaker 4: And that is the end of that story.

989
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 3: It was so cute.

990
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 2: Hey's John og host. We don't get back to the stories,

991
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 2: but a quick free minute break of ads from our sponsors.

992
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 3: My old fling reappeared and her son looks exactly like me.

993
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 7: Sounds like your old fling is your current baby mama.

994
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 3: Back in twenty ten, I was twenty working a retail

995
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 3: job with a girl around my age. We were friends,

996
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,919
Speaker 3: hung out a few times after work, and one night

997
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 3: things got physical. One time thing. A few days later,

998
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 3: she got fired, not because of me, just workplaced drama.

999
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,879
Speaker 3: And after that she completely disappeared. Never returned calls, never

1000
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:13,319
Speaker 3: answered text nothing. I figured she just wanted to move

1001
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,839
Speaker 3: on and life went on for me too. And by

1002
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 3: the way, this comes from you us, your Whitish lama,

1003
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:19,800
Speaker 3: And if you want usbmit your own stories, go to

1004
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 3: the our Slashowkay story Time Suburday. I'm Dakota, I'm Sophia.

1005
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 6: I'm Keon and We're here.

1006
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 2: To give good advice, goofully, but we don't have all

1007
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:28,280
Speaker 2: the answers.

1008
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 3: We only know what we would do. So if you

1009
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 3: would do something different, let us know in the comments.

1010
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 3: As Opie said, fast forward to now, I'm thirty five.

1011
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 4: That's fifteen years buddy quick math, married for eight years.

1012
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 3: No kids. Yesterday I got a Facebook friend request from

1013
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 3: her out of nowhere. I haven't thought about this woman

1014
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 3: in over a decade. Out of curiosity, I checked her

1015
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 3: profile and she has a son who just turned fifteen.

1016
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 3: Here's the thing. The kid looks exactly like me when

1017
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 3: I was at age. Same hair color, same nose, same build,

1018
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 3: even the same smile with a gap in our front teeth.

1019
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 3: I used to hate in photos.

1020
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 6: She cloned you, op Oh.

1021
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 4: No.

1022
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 3: I showed my brother without saying anything, and he said, dude,

1023
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 3: that looks like you in middle school. It also appears

1024
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 3: she married a guy a few years after our encounter.

1025
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 3: I believe they are now divorced. He's of a different

1026
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:27,719
Speaker 3: ethnicity than me. They had a few children together, and

1027
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 3: the fifteen year old appears not his. Now I'm sitting

1028
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 3: here trying to figure out what to do with this information.

1029
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 3: I don't want to jump to conclusions, but the math

1030
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:41,439
Speaker 3: lines up perfectly and the resemblance is impossible to ignore. Don't,

1031
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 3: I don't. You don't even need to jump to conclusions.

1032
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 3: You just need to like kind of scoot, You need

1033
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 3: to scooch to the conclusion.

1034
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 5: Scoot to that conclusion.

1035
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 2: You can just kind of like even just like turn

1036
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 2: your head a little bit oh.

1037
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:57,800
Speaker 7: To one side, and that's the conclusion.

1038
00:50:58,120 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 3: To make things more difficult, my wife and I have

1039
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:04,360
Speaker 3: been struggling to conceive for years. We've gone through tests, treatments,

1040
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 3: and a lot of disappointment. It's been hard on both

1041
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 3: of us, and the idea that I might have a

1042
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 3: biological child out there that I never knew about is

1043
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,760
Speaker 3: messing with my head. My wife knows about that fling.

1044
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:19,359
Speaker 3: She's always known I wasn't a saint before we met,

1045
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,280
Speaker 3: but she obviously doesn't know I might have a fifteen

1046
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:23,479
Speaker 3: year old kid out there.

1047
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 7: You gotta tell her.

1048
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:26,239
Speaker 3: And you didn't know that either.

1049
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 7: And also there's no might he looks exactly like you.

1050
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:32,399
Speaker 7: You've got a fifteen year old kid out there?

1051
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 2: Well, you could. It could be a doppelganger scenario.

1052
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:36,399
Speaker 3: It could.

1053
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:38,319
Speaker 6: I don't believe it.

1054
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:41,240
Speaker 7: The chances are you're somehow related.

1055
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, the chances are she popped that baby out and.

1056
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 3: I looked just like you.

1057
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 6: I know, I don't know. Show me the carfax, I

1058
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 6: don't know.

1059
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 3: I have no idea how to even start the conversation.

1060
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:53,240
Speaker 3: So I've got two problems. Do I message this woman

1061
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,360
Speaker 3: and ask her straight up if the kid is mine?

1062
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:57,839
Speaker 3: She had to add me for a reason, right, Yeah,

1063
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:01,440
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, she added you, bro, she probably knows,

1064
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 3: he knows. And more importantly, how do I even begin

1065
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 3: to approach the subject with my wife. I'm not trying

1066
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 3: to blow up anyone's life here, but if that kid

1067
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 3: is mine, I feel like I have a right to know,

1068
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 3: and he has a right to know too. Dude, you

1069
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 3: already know I'm in a position in life where I

1070
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,360
Speaker 3: could greatly help him in the next few years with college,

1071
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 3: et cetera. And on the other hand, I want to

1072
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 3: prevent causing a huge mess in my marriage. Any direction

1073
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 3: or advice is appreciated. And we have some comments, Sophia,

1074
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 3: what would you do tell your wife? Tell your wife

1075
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:38,719
Speaker 3: right now, Gogelbaum about this.

1076
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 7: Yes, I'm telling my wife right now. That's so be son.

1077
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 7: That's Tobe's son.

1078
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 3: Come at one. If my husband told me he had

1079
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 3: a fifteen year old he never knew about, I'd just

1080
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 3: feel bad for him and his son. This is a

1081
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 3: crazy story, though, and I try to connect with the

1082
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 3: mom asap. Comment to says, I almost would want to

1083
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 3: bring up the idea with the misses first, then decide

1084
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 3: whether any contact about the kid is worth pursuing. I

1085
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,839
Speaker 3: feel it's best to approach this together, if you think

1086
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 3: that's what should happen. Lobe says, this is kind of

1087
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 3: where my head is at. By principle, I do not

1088
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 3: talk with other women via social or text out of

1089
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 3: respect for my wife. I would want to clue her

1090
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 3: in on the entire exchange and how to move forward.

1091
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 3: And there is an update.

1092
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, No, you absolutely should tell your wife before you

1093
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 7: do any of this. That's that's step number one, and

1094
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 7: then we move forward after step number one.

1095
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 3: I mean, I think you should tell her first, but

1096
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:41,720
Speaker 3: I don't think there should be like a carte blanche

1097
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 3: on like, no, I get to be the decider on

1098
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 3: whether or not you get to reach out to your

1099
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,319
Speaker 3: own like you know progeny.

1100
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 7: No, it's not that you're not telling your wife for

1101
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 7: permission of like reaching out your son. I feel like

1102
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:55,760
Speaker 7: it's just cluing her into this is happening.

1103
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 3: It kind of sounds like that's what that was.

1104
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 7: Personally. I would go to them and be like like hey,

1105
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 7: or to my wife, and I would say, I just

1106
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 7: found out this information. I think that I might I

1107
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 7: know it's crazy, I think that I might have a son.

1108
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 7: I'm going to reach out to them, but I wanted

1109
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 7: to let you know because I need to reach out

1110
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 7: to the fling. So I just wanted to let you

1111
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:21,359
Speaker 7: know that was going on.

1112
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 6: Well, do we reach out first and like, hey, is

1113
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 6: this like that's me? Do we get like the evidence

1114
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 6: like this is one hundred percent my kid first and

1115
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 6: then tell wife or we tell wife then try to

1116
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,759
Speaker 6: figure it out together and like this might be my kid.

1117
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:37,799
Speaker 7: I think you literally tell wife immediately.

1118
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 5: I think you told me WFE immediately.

1119
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:44,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I do agree with that update. I made

1120
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 3: my original post here a few days ago and wanted

1121
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 3: to follow up since a few of you requested it.

1122
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 3: Yesterday morning, I told my wife everything. I was nervous

1123
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:55,319
Speaker 3: to even start the conversation, but I knew keeping it

1124
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:57,839
Speaker 3: to myself was not fair to her. This year has

1125
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 3: already been extremely hard on her with ongoing mental health struggles,

1126
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 3: and I didn't want to add more weight to her shoulders,

1127
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 3: but she deserved honesty.

1128
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 2: She took it better than I expected. She was upset

1129
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 2: but calm, and said she agreed the resemblance between me

1130
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:16,320
Speaker 2: and the boy was too strong to ignore the boy.

1131
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 5: The boy you lived, come to.

1132
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 2: The boy you live, Come to maybe bring strife to

1133
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:26,719
Speaker 2: my marriage. In her word, she said, yeah, that kid

1134
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 2: has your teeth.

1135
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 7: That kid's got your teeth.

1136
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 3: Come back. We talked for a long time and decided

1137
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 3: I should reach out again to get clarity. Later in

1138
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 3: the day, I messaged the woman on Facebook. I kept

1139
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 3: it brief and direct. I told her that I noticed

1140
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 3: her friend request that I was not comfortable accepting it

1141
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 3: since I'm married, and asked why she reached out. I

1142
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:49,680
Speaker 3: added that if there was something important she wanted to discuss,

1143
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 3: I was willing to listen, but otherwise I preferred not

1144
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:57,800
Speaker 3: to reconnect. She responded shortly after my message. She explained

1145
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:00,120
Speaker 3: that back in twenty ten, she had been seeing on

1146
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 3: an off boyfriend around the same time she and I

1147
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:04,800
Speaker 3: hooked up. When she found out she was pregnant. She

1148
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 3: believed the child was likely his and told him so.

1149
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 3: They stayed together for a while, and when they split up,

1150
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 3: he continued to pay child support. According to her, he

1151
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:17,759
Speaker 3: was never really involved in the boy's life. Out of curiosity,

1152
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:20,759
Speaker 3: I looked him up. A simple Google search showed a

1153
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 3: long history of legal trouble, including multiple duties, time in prison,

1154
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 3: and other offenses. From everything I have learned, he was

1155
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:32,800
Speaker 3: not much of a father figure. Recently, his new wife

1156
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 3: began pressing him for a DNA test because the boy

1157
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 3: did not resemble him. He finally agreed, and the test

1158
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:43,759
Speaker 3: confirmed he is not the biological father, and that discovery

1159
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 3: set off a chain reaction. He has now filed to

1160
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 3: terminate child support and is suing to recover the money.

1161
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:51,799
Speaker 2: He paid over the years.

1162
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:56,960
Speaker 3: Can you do that? Sounds like it, dang, I think

1163
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 3: you would probably have to prove that there was some

1164
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 3: sort of like intentional yeah, which attempts to deceive. Though

1165
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:07,240
Speaker 3: probably I mean, like it can't be. I mean, like, dude,

1166
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:08,239
Speaker 3: like come on, like.

1167
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 7: He could have done that test two.

1168
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:14,359
Speaker 3: Yeah. I'm an attorney. From a legal standpoint, I know

1169
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 3: that's an uphill battle for him. It's extremely difficult to

1170
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 3: recover past child support once it's been paid. Courts tend

1171
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 3: to prioritize stability for the child over fairness to the adults.

1172
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 3: Without a certain father to shift the obligation to, meaning

1173
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 3: no one else has yet been legally established as the

1174
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 3: biological father. Most courts will not vacate the original paternity finding.

1175
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:39,280
Speaker 3: They do not want to leave the child without a

1176
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 3: legally responsible parent, even if the prior assumption turns out

1177
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 3: to be wrong. Long story short, it appears he willingly

1178
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:49,080
Speaker 3: agreed to support the child fifteen years ago without a

1179
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 3: paternity finding. You should have done this due diligence. Then,

1180
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 3: on top of this, he currently owes her almost twenty

1181
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 3: three thousand dollars in child support.

1182
00:57:58,480 --> 00:57:59,240
Speaker 2: It reerages.

1183
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's great to be like, I want all of

1184
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 7: the money I paid back, but also.

1185
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 2: I am very in debt.

1186
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, wonder he doesn't want to pay chelsop for

1187
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 3: he owes you to twenty three thousand dollars.

1188
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 2: Yep.

1189
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 3: In my jurisdiction that principle holds true as well. Overturning

1190
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 3: paternity this late in the game is nearly impossible unless

1191
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 3: another father figure is confirmed and willing to assume legal responsibility.

1192
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 3: The woman told me that after the DNA results came back,

1193
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 3: she thought of me immediately and said I am the

1194
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 3: only other possible father. She also said she's already told

1195
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 3: her son the truth that the man he believed to

1196
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:39,200
Speaker 3: be his father is not biologically related to him. She

1197
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 3: said it's been difficult for him to process, but she

1198
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 3: felt it was time to be honest. She hasn't asked

1199
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 3: me for anything. She's waited almost six months to reach

1200
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 3: out to me. No money, no contact, no involvement. She

1201
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,439
Speaker 3: said she only wanted me to know, and that she's

1202
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:57,120
Speaker 3: open to doing a DNA test whenever I'm ready. I

1203
00:58:57,240 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 3: also have already discussed this with an attorney friend who

1204
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:02,800
Speaker 3: is licensed in her state. He walked me through some

1205
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 3: of my options and explained the potential legal implications depending

1206
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 3: on how things unfold. I am considering those now. I mean,

1207
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:11,680
Speaker 3: it seems.

1208
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:12,720
Speaker 7: Like it's yeah, it's working out.

1209
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 3: Oh, I thought we were going to sync up for

1210
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 3: a second. It seems too late. We can't force it.

1211
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but it does. It seems like

1212
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:22,360
Speaker 3: it's working out. It does.

1213
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:25,000
Speaker 7: It does seem like it's working out. Well, yeah, I

1214
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 7: mean like. It seems like she's not looking to scam you,

1215
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:30,920
Speaker 7: as swindle you out of money. She just wants you

1216
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 7: to know that you have a sun because she just

1217
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 7: found that out. And I guess you have to, you know,

1218
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 7: make a decision on what type of or what level

1219
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 7: of presence you want to have in this kid's life.

1220
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really uh uh. Whatever happens, I think you

1221
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:51,320
Speaker 3: should probably approach it as a team, you know, with

1222
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 3: with your wife.

1223
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, agreed.

1224
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:58,160
Speaker 3: My wife and I are still processing everything. This has

1225
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 3: been a long weekend. She's been more understanding than I

1226
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 3: could have hoped for, though I can tell it weighs

1227
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 3: on her. I'm trying to balance the desire to know

1228
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:09,280
Speaker 3: the truth with not wanting to disrupt a teenager's life

1229
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 3: that is already unsettled. For now, we're taking things one

1230
01:00:13,120 --> 01:00:16,160
Speaker 3: step at a time. The woman seems sincere and has

1231
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 3: not shown any signs of ulterior motives. Yes, the woman

1232
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 3: did see my original post here. This post has been

1233
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 3: heavily edited to include only the relevant facts and to

1234
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:29,760
Speaker 3: preserve attorney client privilege. I still felt an obligation to

1235
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:32,400
Speaker 3: keep you all appraised, since many of you give sincere

1236
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 3: advice and helped me think clearly when this first surfaced.

1237
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:39,320
Speaker 3: As always, any help or advice is appreciated, and we

1238
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:44,080
Speaker 3: do have some more comments you boy number one, if

1239
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 3: you decide to be in his life, he probably needs

1240
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:49,400
Speaker 3: therapy as he has already been let down by one

1241
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:53,240
Speaker 3: father figure. Introducing you is not necessarily a bad thing

1242
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:56,760
Speaker 3: as long as you take your cues from him. Ohp

1243
01:00:56,760 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 3: he says, we are one hundred percent pro therapy and

1244
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 3: mental health. Comment to HIOPI. From both the posts, it

1245
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:06,760
Speaker 3: looks like all three of you are very level headed individuals.

1246
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 3: You and your wife having such a nice and transparent

1247
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:14,400
Speaker 3: relationship where she didn't overreact. The kid's mother again no expectations,

1248
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 3: waited six months to get in touch with you. Now,

1249
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:19,240
Speaker 3: from the kid's point of view, if the person he

1250
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 3: was assuming to be his father isn't his father, he'll

1251
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 3: wonder who is and given the facts of case, you

1252
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 3: are in a better place, he will be happy to

1253
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:31,160
Speaker 3: have a role model in his life. Teenage years are

1254
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:35,320
Speaker 3: very crucial informing a person's personality. If you do accept

1255
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 3: to go ahead and do DNA, which will confirm your suspicion,

1256
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:42,160
Speaker 3: you will have to provide for child support. Are you

1257
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 3: and your wife on the same page on that. Do

1258
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:47,480
Speaker 3: you want to continue to be part of this kid's life.

1259
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:50,280
Speaker 3: You can meet a few times and introduce yourself as

1260
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:53,000
Speaker 3: family friends. See how it goes from there, and if

1261
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 3: your wife is okay with this, you can spend more

1262
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 3: time with him. I feel things happen for a reason.

1263
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:00,920
Speaker 3: Maybe now is your time to embrace parent who and

1264
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 3: that is the end of that story. I don't agree

1265
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:05,920
Speaker 3: with introducing yourself as family friends.

1266
01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 2: That's crazy.

1267
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 7: The sun is old enough to know the son is

1268
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:12,400
Speaker 7: fifteen years old.

1269
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:15,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure he would look at op and be like, yeah,

1270
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:15,840
Speaker 2: that's my dad.

1271
01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:18,080
Speaker 3: That guy looks just like me.

1272
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:21,080
Speaker 7: And also it's too late because the mom has already

1273
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 7: said like, you.

1274
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:25,160
Speaker 2: Know, aw, that's not your dad. You have a different dad.

1275
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:26,880
Speaker 7: So I feel like he'd figure it out.

1276
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, he might be able to put two and two

1277
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:28,840
Speaker 3: together on this.

1278
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 2: He's not stupid.

1279
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:33,439
Speaker 3: It's fifteen. Oh, we don't know. He could be an idiot, yes,

1280
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:35,360
Speaker 3: And that's the end of this story.