1 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: Welcome back to I Do Part two. I'm one of 2 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: your celebrity mentors, Cheryl Burke, and today I'm joined by 3 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: a powerhouse of women for a conversation on a topic 4 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: I know we all have a lot to say about, 5 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: so please help me. Welcome fellow celebrity mentors. Kelly ben Simone, 6 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:33,200 Speaker 1: Alexia Napola, Hi. 7 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 2: Ladies, him Cheryl, Hi Kelly. 8 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: It's been so long, Alexia especially. 9 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 2: Yes, last time I saw you you were dancing with 10 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 2: one of my friends, William Levy. We went out to 11 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 2: LA and you guys obviously were my favorite couple and 12 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 2: you should have taken the trophy. 13 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: Right yeah, I think. I mean, people were drooling over 14 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: that guy. But how are you doing? 15 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 2: And over you two, by the way, because you're an 16 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 2: amazing dancer. You've always been favorite dancer, by the way, amazing. 17 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: Thanks so much. Where are you, Kelly? 18 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 3: I'm doing better, so much better. 19 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 4: You know, you and I have kind of been through 20 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 4: a lot together and I'm just feeling like, emotionally so 21 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 4: much stronger. But you know, with any kind of like 22 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 4: you know, unraveling of anything, it's it's twofold. It's emotional 23 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 4: and transactional and so there was just a lot of 24 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 4: money things I had to take care of which I 25 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 4: was not happy with, which actually made me more angry 26 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 4: than just not being together. 27 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: Right right, I hear you. I mean this is just 28 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: the rollercoaster of emotions. I'm sure. 29 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 3: Just wasting money is just not my thing. 30 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: It's a lesson learned, never a waste. 31 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 3: Twenty twenty five is going to be such a good year. 32 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: Though, It's going to be amazing. 33 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 2: Are you talking about the relationship you're in with your fiance? 34 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 3: Yes, I am done. 35 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 2: Okay, this summer. 36 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 3: So Cheryl has been so great. 37 00:01:55,120 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 4: We started doing this podcast together the very beginning, and 38 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 4: Cheryl taught me a lot about how to navigate but 39 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 4: also how to treat myself. 40 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 3: And you know, we're just we've. 41 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 4: Been through similar situations. I'm so excited. 42 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:13,399 Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of us women have been 43 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 2: through situations like that. 44 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just not talked about as much. 45 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 2: Right, And I think it's so much better, at least 46 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: for me. You know, I think talking about it, especially 47 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 2: to somebody like Cheryl that's gone through it, or other 48 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 2: of our friends or women that I've gone through it, 49 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 2: it's that it's so much more relatable and they get it. 50 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 2: You know, sometimes your friends that haven't been in these 51 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 2: situations don't get it, and it's you know, and it's 52 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 2: really hard. So it's great that you've had Cheryl. And 53 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:39,519 Speaker 2: I don't know if you have any any other friends, 54 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 2: but I know for me, my friends me, everything new 55 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 2: for use just been you. Well I'm just kidding. 56 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 3: I'm kidding. 57 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: Oh no, because you know what, Kelly's only friend, that's it. 58 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 2: You know, Well, I'm sure you give her good advice. 59 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 2: By the way, I was also reading. I started following you, Cheryl, 60 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 2: and I started reading like your interviews and your podcasts 61 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 2: and listening to them, and I'm loving them. I'm joining them, 62 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 2: and I'm also learning a lot through because I'm also 63 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,839 Speaker 2: going through my own journey. But yeah, so it's great 64 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 2: to have you now also, you know, as as my 65 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 2: friend and as my place and tell you took. 66 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: I just need to follow my own advice. That's the 67 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: hard part. 68 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 2: Well, that's what happens to me, Cheryl. I give great 69 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 2: advice and then I'll apply it to myself. All my 70 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 2: friends come to me for advice and they're like, what 71 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: about you. 72 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 4: I always told Cheryl that she's the adult in the 73 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 4: room and she's teaching me and mentoring. 74 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: Only you knew what I did. Though, when you weren't 75 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: with me, I'd be like, wait a second, are you 76 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: been to a hypocrite or don't? Okay, do as I 77 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: do exactly exactly? That is that true? 78 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 2: Saying that is true? 79 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: That's my therapist. I'm like, how messed up is your life? 80 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: My therapist for the last fifteen years? Let's talk about you? Okay. 81 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 2: Well, my mom was a great psychiatrist and she gave 82 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 2: great like couple's therapy, and she had been to words 83 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 2: five times, so I was like, my mom, Like, she 84 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 2: divorced five times. I'm like, how can you? And she 85 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 2: would make everyone stay together and she was so good 86 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 2: at it, and yet in her life she was a mess. 87 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: Let's see if Dennis Dennis Petrano, if he has also 88 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: gone through many divorces. I'm hoping he has, because then 89 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: he'll really be able to relate. 90 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 2: Well, I feel like we've only gone through one, right, 91 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 2: us three, I've only got to one? 92 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, only one for now? 93 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 2: Well, me me the same because my second one, my husband, 94 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 2: we never filed for divorce and he unfortunately passed away. 95 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 2: So I was technically a widow. 96 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 1: That's the one I met, I met, that's the one 97 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: you met her. I'm so sorry. 98 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, because he was a great man and so technically, 99 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:39,720 Speaker 2: you know, we never filed for divorce or anything. We're 100 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 2: great friends, work together, and unfortunately, you know that happens. 101 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 2: And my third husband now, which is Todd, I'm still 102 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,919 Speaker 2: married to him and I'm still trying to stay married. 103 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 2: Let's see what the well, let's see what no. I mean, 104 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 2: we're both trying to, you know, to make it. 105 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: Takes work, it works right, like it's it's always a 106 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: work in progress, like it's never too comfortable, you know 107 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: it is. 108 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 2: And I just think it's easier. I just think it's easier. 109 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people that's why they're 110 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 2: creating like so quickly, because it's just easier to walk away. 111 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 2: It takes so much work on both sides and so 112 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 2: much effort that, you know, sometimes I think people just 113 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 2: don't want to try so hard anymore. 114 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: Well, or it could be that like the one person 115 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: wants to work, but then you can't force the other 116 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: person to do the work either. And when that's the situation, 117 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,679 Speaker 1: there's nothing you can do other than put yourself first 118 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: and walk away. 119 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:34,599 Speaker 2: You know, yeah, that won't work. You definitely both. 120 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 3: You've had two relationships. 121 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 4: I only had one one like big relationship, one marriage. 122 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 3: And I it's. 123 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:46,280 Speaker 4: Interesting because you know, I was like, well, howcome your 124 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 4: you're single? 125 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 3: Like basically like to what's wrong with you? I'm like, no, no, no, 126 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 3: I'm not single. 127 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 4: I'm just I'm just because I'm not in a relationship 128 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 4: doesn't mean I had a single mindset, right, I'm looking. 129 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 3: For the right person, not any person. 130 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 2: That is true. But are you okay with like being alone? 131 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 2: I think that that's mine. Oh yeah, yeah, well I 132 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 2: think now you are right because you went through your journey. 133 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: But my freak, I love it. I love it too much. 134 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: My therapist is worried about. 135 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 2: Me really because I know that's scary too. You so 136 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 2: you have a lot of friends like you share all 137 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 2: that I've been divorced, and they're so good being alone 138 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 2: that they really and you know, they're also celibate like 139 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 2: you by choice because they're just not going to they 140 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 2: just don't want another relationship. 141 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 3: Weird. 142 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 2: But I'm kind of scared of that to sharel I'm 143 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 2: not gonna lie because I feel like I'm just like 144 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 2: I know there's a difference between being alone and being lonely. 145 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 2: I would never be lonely because my life is very 146 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 2: complete and I have so much going on in my 147 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 2: life and I love my life, so I don't see 148 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 2: it that way. But I've always seen myself like with someone, 149 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 2: like my happiness doesn't depend on the person, but part 150 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 2: of my happiness, like in my vision board, is being 151 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 2: with someone and sharing my life. 152 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: I hear you, but you know there's going to be 153 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: ebbs and flows, like with anything with money, with relationships, 154 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: and I believe that it's never nothing's forever except you 155 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: are you forever, like you're stuck with you for the 156 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 1: rest of your life. You better like yourself. And I 157 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: think when it comes to I want to find someone 158 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: that makes me happy or those types of like statements 159 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: are really it's I would I hope one day that 160 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: And though I'm just saying this, it doesn't mean I'm 161 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: doing it, but like or practicing it. But the happiness 162 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: does you complete you right like And I think until 163 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: that really happens, then you start to attract the people 164 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: that are healthy, that are aren't looking for toxic relationships, 165 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: that are looking for no one to complete them because 166 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: they've already completed themselves. Like there's nobody's going to fill 167 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: that void for you. 168 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 3: I totally agree with that. 169 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that, like, you know, for me, like 170 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 4: it's not that I you know, I've been lonely. I've 171 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 4: just been alone, but I've also been raising two kids 172 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 4: on my own, and so so now like even my 173 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 4: you know, my youngest is still living with me, and 174 00:07:55,760 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 4: you know, I I'm definitely looking to be with someone's special, definitely, 175 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 4: and I've always been open to that. But you know, 176 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 4: when you're a full time single parent, you don't think, 177 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:08,679 Speaker 4: you know, you're not like, Okay, I'll. 178 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 3: Just you know, dump my kids for some guy. It's 179 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 3: not going to happen. 180 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: No, hopefully not. 181 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 2: I would never do that. No not you well, no, 182 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 2: you haven't done it. So I don't think at this 183 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 2: point in your life, you know, whoever comes to your 184 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 2: life knows that your children are a priority and they're 185 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 2: you know, you're a package, you know, And that's what 186 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 2: men that date women with kids have to understand. And 187 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 2: that can also be a problem in relationships. 188 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 3: You know. 189 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 2: I feel like women that come into relationships with no 190 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 2: kids because they don't want then it could work again, 191 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 2: it really depends on the person that you're dating, you know. Yeah, 192 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 2: so it's very relative. 193 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: Should we bring in our guests, you guys, this is 194 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: going to be exciting. He's a talker and I can't 195 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: wait to have him on. So yeah, I know exactly 196 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: how long you got folks. Okay, so today we're going 197 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: to dive deep into the topic of divorce and ask 198 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: all the questions that we wished we'd ask when we 199 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,079 Speaker 1: were going through it, or things you should be considering 200 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: the second time around. Our guest today is a divorce 201 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: attorney mediator and has the best TikTok feed full of 202 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: helpful information. This is very true. Please welcome Dennis the 203 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: Toronto to the podcast. Welcome, Hi, how are you meet 204 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 1: all of us? Have you heard I do Part two? Yes? 205 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 5: Well recently, yes, I've been. I've been kind of binging 206 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 5: on it a little bit. So yeah, yeah for sure. 207 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,959 Speaker 1: So I guess tell us about yourself first and then 208 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: we'll just We've got tons of questions for you. 209 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 5: Okay. Ooh, I'm frightened now should I should I be intimidated? Fine? 210 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 5: I will, I'm fine. I'm used to asking the questions, 211 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 5: but ill but I'll answer them too. So twenty five 212 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 5: years practicing attorney, I've been doing predominantly divorced and family 213 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:03,959 Speaker 5: li litigation throughout that time frame, and probably say maybe 214 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 5: about the past five years, just trying to take what 215 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 5: I've learned from being a divorce and family low litigation 216 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 5: attorney for twenty five years and try to like and 217 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 5: all the stories I've heard and all the horror stories, 218 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 5: and try to like rewind and say, like, how do 219 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 5: we look at the mistakes that are made in marriages 220 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,679 Speaker 5: and relationships that lead you to those divorces and those 221 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 5: contentious you know, drawn out, knock down, drag out divorces, 222 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 5: and rewind like what could we have done to avoid 223 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 5: that from the start? Like what are the signs that 224 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 5: we saw or maybe didn't see, should have seen that 225 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 5: we could have fixed along the way to not end 226 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 5: up in my office? 227 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: So right, right, But then also it's good for you 228 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: to fand up in your office, right exactly? 229 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 5: I mean, look it is, but I think you know, 230 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 5: Look I tell people people always say, you know, I 231 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 5: do so much on TikTok and Instagram and stuff like that, 232 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 5: And I've been doing videos for a long time about divorces. 233 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 5: You know, a lot of the knocks and a lot 234 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 5: of the guys especially, will say, oh, this guy just 235 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 5: wants to get your money. It's like no, It's like, you. 236 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 2: Know, what, do you represent men more or women? Your 237 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 2: clientele is the more ladies or men. 238 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 5: I find that it's been about fifty to fifty for 239 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 5: the longest time, but probably over the past handful of years, 240 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 5: I've probably been representing more women than men, you know. 241 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:26,079 Speaker 5: And I find for me it's it dovetails more nicely 242 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 5: with the way I approach these cases, and really what 243 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 5: I believe in in that, like you know my experiences, 244 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 5: women tend to be more introspective, They tend to be 245 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 5: more open to counseling, They tend to be more open 246 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 5: to listen to you. And I think that you know, 247 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 5: as a professional in this space and wanting to help 248 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 5: people you know, have a healthy, successful life, it just 249 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,679 Speaker 5: it just works better that sort of relationship. 250 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: Are you divorced? 251 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 5: No? 252 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 3: Are you married? 253 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 5: I am married? Okay, I am married to kids. 254 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 2: How long have you been married. 255 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 5: We've been married since two thousand and seven September one, 256 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 5: two thousand and seven. 257 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: So okay. 258 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:06,319 Speaker 5: How good is my math? 259 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:06,679 Speaker 3: Here. 260 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 5: Uh so roughly about fourteen years. 261 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: Now, do you rep yourself if anything were to happen, 262 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,079 Speaker 1: or do you have colleagues that you would Oh? 263 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 2: Do you not? 264 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: Even would not use a divorce attorney? Maybe? 265 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 5: Now this is funny because I don't even have a prenup. 266 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,319 Speaker 1: You know, this goes back, girls to what we were saying, 267 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: like we could preach all we want. 268 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 5: When we first met. I didn't need a prenup. She did. 269 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 5: So let's put at that very accomplished woman. 270 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: My wife. Yeah, so did you sign one? 271 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 5: No, no, we don't. We don't have a prenup. 272 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 2: Because it's their first marriage, right. 273 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 5: Right, right, right, right, we're beginners. 274 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: Well, I mean I had a prenup from the beginning. 275 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 6: Yeah. 276 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 5: I think it's funny because clients and even just really anybody, 277 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 5: I think it's a good idea to have a prenup, 278 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 5: and people are surprised about the reasons why I think 279 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 5: you should have a prenup. 280 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 3: I think, why do you like prenups? 281 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 5: I think you should have a prep not for the 282 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 5: conventional reasons why people typically do prenups. I think you 283 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 5: should have a prenup because you have more disclosure, you 284 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 5: have more open honesty. You're having tougher conversations before the 285 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 5: marriage starts that many people are just not ready for. 286 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 5: You know, people don't want to talk about, hey, what 287 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 5: happens if we get divorced. People don't want to talk 288 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 5: about how much debt do you have? Like where do 289 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 5: you make? Where do you make your money? 290 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 2: Don't you think that that affects the couple as far 291 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 2: as where the relationship is going to go. You know, 292 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 2: like you said, there's a lot of disclosure, there's you know, 293 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 2: there's honesty. You have to be transparent. It's uncomfortable. I'm 294 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 2: being honest. I mean it's uncomfortable than the main things 295 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 2: that like your you know, like oh you just like 296 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 2: want my money? 297 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 1: And you know what else is uncomfortable childbirth, which I've 298 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: never experienced, but like that is also I'm assuming super uncomfortable. 299 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: So it's like we have to have these conversations regardless. 300 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: Better to do it before you say, I do. 301 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 2: I think, Well, I feel like some couples today. I 302 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 2: mean maybe I'm wrong, but baby, I think that people 303 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 2: aren't getting married and couples like I have friends of mine, 304 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 2: I'm gonna be honest, and they've been engaged and they 305 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 2: are avoiding marriage because they don't want to sit down 306 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 2: and work on a pre up. 307 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: Well that's their problem. 308 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 3: So I didn't have a preenup for my first marriage. 309 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 2: I did not have a prenup. 310 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 3: And you know, I don't feel like I don't, you know, 311 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 3: I don't. I don't. 312 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 4: I didn't feel like I needed one because I was 313 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 4: so young. But you know, if my when my daughters, 314 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 4: you know, find you know, the love of their life, 315 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 4: I'm definitely definitely going to make them get prenups. 316 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 3: But I did not. I did not have that. We're 317 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 3: not because I was, you know, twenty six years old. 318 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 4: But you know, it's just a totally different world now 319 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 4: than it was. 320 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: Then, Well tell them your story, your story. 321 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 4: I mean, I think that that's the dentists made that 322 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 4: really good point that a prenup is kind of like 323 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 4: what would happen if you get divorced, and so it's 324 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 4: it's basically the same kind of it's a. 325 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 3: Contract, and so it's it's basically the same to kind 326 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 3: of document you can speak to that. Why don't you 327 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 3: tell us the difference? 328 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, But I mean, here's the thing. I mean, I 329 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 5: think I think, look, you know prenups. I'll get into 330 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 5: what prenup is and and why it's important from a 331 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 5: legal standpoint, but I think prenups I think are important 332 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 5: because you need to choose. Look, successful marriages, in my opinion, 333 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 5: start off with choosing well. The finances are necessarily part 334 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 5: of it. How do you make your money? How do 335 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 5: you spend your money? Are you you are? When you 336 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 5: marry someone, you are extending this level of trust to 337 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 5: this individual. That Jesus if they can't talk to you 338 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 5: about what their debts are or how they make their money, 339 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 5: or or like you know, how many bills do they 340 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 5: have or what their credit score is? I mean, listen, 341 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 5: you're like trusting your soul, your heart with this person 342 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 5: and they can't trust you to tell you what they 343 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 5: make or like you know these things. There needs to 344 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 5: be full disclosure. There needs to be because again, like I said, 345 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 5: successful long lasting marriages start with choosing well. And I 346 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 5: think the prenup is a tool. 347 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: And open communication right right, that's it. 348 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 5: Yes, Yes, open communication from the get go on the 349 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 5: things that are most you're right. 350 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: And vulnerable and transparency and all of it. Like, but 351 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: don't you think before marrying somebody that these conversations, like 352 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: it's common sense because if let's say you don't do it, 353 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: your life is going to be a living. This person's 354 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: going to be in your life no matter if whatever 355 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: happened happened, like for the rest of your life, and 356 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: that is forever, you know, like that, it's just a 357 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: nightmare situation. Yeah, especially I can't speak to that, but ye, yes. 358 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 4: So Dennis, are you more likely or less likely to 359 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 4: get divorced throughout the second time around if your marriage 360 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:11,400 Speaker 4: and if your first marriage ended in divorce? 361 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 5: Well, I think Look, we know second marriages fail to 362 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 5: the tune of about seventy something percent. You know, the 363 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 5: first marriages are roughly about fifty percent. 364 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 2: What about the third marriage? 365 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 5: Well, right, marriage, I don't I don't remember, right. I 366 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 5: think it's going up. I think part of the reason 367 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 5: is we're we're worried about the wrong things when our 368 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 5: relationship fails. We're worried about the stigma associated with it. 369 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 5: We're worried about the shame. We're worried about protecting our kids, 370 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 5: We're worried about what our friends are saying about us, 371 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:49,440 Speaker 5: when really what we need to be worrying about is ourselves. 372 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 5: And getting to getting reacquainted with ourselves, taking the time 373 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 5: to do that, taking the time to date, and no, 374 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 5: you know know what you're looking for. I think we yes, 375 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 5: right right away. 376 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:04,919 Speaker 2: Cheryl doesn't agree with that, Dennis. 377 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,679 Speaker 4: Isn't it also that when you get divorced after the 378 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 4: first time and then you get married again, it's probably 379 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 4: easier to get divorced the second time because you already 380 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 4: know what's at stake. 381 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: We can just copy the prenup like we could just 382 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: make another copy and just change the name. 383 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 5: That's a good point. 384 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 4: That's not good, that's I mean, Listen, I believe in, 385 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 4: you know, I believe in divorce. I believe in you know, 386 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 4: if things aren't working out. I definitely believe in making 387 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 4: better choices for yourself and for your family one hundred percent. 388 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 4: But I do also think that once you've done it, 389 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 4: you're gonna do it again. 390 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 1: You know, Are you going to mean nothing's forever? 391 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 6: No? 392 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 3: I don't, Cheryl. 393 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 5: Maybe, I mean I think, look, I was always a proponent. 394 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 5: Now this is a divorce lawyer who was always a proponent, 395 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 5: who said, Hey, you gotta wait, you gotta take time. 396 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 5: You really got to heal yourself. You got to get 397 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 5: to know yourself. Yes, I'm still that's that's absolutely the 398 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 5: way I feel. However, or you know, I've been over 399 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 5: the past year or so, I've been doing some podcasts 400 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,360 Speaker 5: talking with some people in this space, and one of 401 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 5: the gentlemen who was divorced suggested, he said, I actually 402 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 5: started dating early on, he said, but I just went 403 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 5: out and went for a cup of coffee, and so 404 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 5: typical just give. But listen, no, no, no, no, this 405 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 5: this particular individual was is very introspective about it, different 406 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 5: than most guys in these spaces because, believe me, I 407 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 5: get I totally understand where you're coming from. But his 408 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 5: point was I needed to figure out what I was 409 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 5: looking for, and part of rediscovering myself was knowing the 410 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 5: type of person that I wanted to be with or 411 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 5: did not want to be with. And he thought, and 412 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 5: I think that's part of it. 413 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 1: This is the thing You're never going to get anything 414 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: from anybody else, Like you need to figure out yourself, true, 415 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 1: like you as the individual, because nobody is going to 416 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,120 Speaker 1: fill your cup up other than yourself. No one's gonna 417 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:04,360 Speaker 1: fill in a void. And that is just the way 418 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: it is, right. 419 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 6: So I agree, can you to look and look and look, look, 420 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 6: look like what do you You're never going to be 421 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 6: satisfied because you haven't filled yourself up with anything other 422 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 6: than looking for someone to fill it for you. 423 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like a lot of men are do 424 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 2: that kind of stuff, Sherul. They're like, okay, well you 425 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,880 Speaker 2: know what, I'm just gonna go look and as an excuse, 426 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 2: you know, what's interesting. 427 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 3: Is just the recent dating. And you know it's interesting 428 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 3: because the guys that I've been. 429 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 4: Dating, who are They're all like, very nice guys, but 430 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 4: they all say the same thing to me. They're like, 431 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,479 Speaker 4: I'm not the same as him. You know, there are 432 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 4: certain things I would never do, and kind of putting 433 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 4: it into my head that you know, what I was 434 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 4: doing was wrong and that they're so great and that 435 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 4: I'm so bad, and I'm like, wait, a red flag. 436 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 4: Oh no, that's a red flag, my friend gaslating me 437 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 4: from my own experience. 438 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,080 Speaker 1: Like yes, yeah, correct, that's exactly what's happening. 439 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 4: Because as I failed, now you're gonna make me worse 440 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 4: about failing. 441 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: Flag red flag. 442 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 5: You can't walk away from those relationships feeling like you 443 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 5: like you made a mistake, like you were to blame. 444 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 5: You can't. You can't because you never I mean, the 445 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 5: point is it's it's about not because I think it's 446 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 5: societal in large part, and I think I do think 447 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 5: to a certain degree it is specific to women in 448 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 5: that they feel that sense of shame, that sense of 449 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 5: responsibility for the failed relationships that in large part from 450 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 5: my experience, guys don't really feel. They don't see it. 451 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 5: They don't get it in the same way. 452 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: I know it's because you don't want to get it. 453 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: We'll all human like, really, it's all about self awareness, 454 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 1: is what we're saying. 455 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 4: And also that they always talk about like a woman's 456 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,399 Speaker 4: everyone's like it was like a woman is already a 457 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 4: woman's scorn, What about a man scorn? 458 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 1: No, they have it, but like do they ever take 459 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: the time? I mean, I'm not talking generally obviously, Like 460 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,400 Speaker 1: there are men. I actually have met men that are 461 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: very self aware that want to continue to evolve because 462 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: no matter if you want to or not, weren't evolving, right, 463 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 1: And that's human nature. And if you say to me 464 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 1: that if there's no shame when it comes to like 465 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: any relationship, every female male, non binary, it doesn't matter, 466 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: like we all have feelings, you're just the difference is 467 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: is that we are saying it out loud to take 468 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,120 Speaker 1: the shame away. Because I believe when you say how 469 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 1: you feel and you express it, especially whether it's podcasting, 470 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: you're just talking to her friend, the shame does slowly 471 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,639 Speaker 1: strip away. But for men, they just continue on. Not 472 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: all men, Some men don't admit their feelings to themselves 473 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,639 Speaker 1: and just continue to numb. Whether that's date other women 474 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 1: have sex with different women every single day, or maybe 475 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: it's productivity that they're addicted to, you know, like it's 476 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: just there's so much you can do to them. 477 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 2: That's like a certain personality trait and personality style. And 478 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 2: then not all men are like that, no, because you 479 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 2: know there are men that you know have a field 480 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,120 Speaker 2: marriage and you know they, yeah, they're upset about it. 481 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,199 Speaker 2: You know, they get better. I know, I feel like 482 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:03,959 Speaker 2: men need to have a woman more. Like we were 483 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 2: talking about, like how Kelly and I want to like meet, 484 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 2: you know, like that meet. In this case, I'm you know, 485 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 2: I'm still with my husband, taught, but I'm just saying 486 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,199 Speaker 2: that I would never be alone. I'm not just that 487 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 2: kind of woman that I like to be in a 488 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 2: relationship with a man, And so what I'm trying to 489 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 2: say is that there's a lot of men, and I 490 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 2: feel like men are needier that way that they need 491 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 2: to once they're done with the relationship or with their marriage, 492 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 2: they also need to go out and find a woman. 493 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 2: Like they can't be alone. I feel like men have 494 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 2: a harder time being alone with women. 495 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: But I have met men that could be alone too. 496 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: It's rare, but it happens. 497 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 2: Right, I mean they can, but they have like ten 498 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:43,919 Speaker 2: women at the same time, so they may not have 499 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 2: one woman, but they're like, you know, talking to ten 500 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 2: different women, and you know, they're just like serial daters 501 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 2: or whatever. 502 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,160 Speaker 1: Yes, we're built differently, I guess. 503 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, But I think that's right. I think when you say, 504 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 5: I mean when you use the phrase self evaluate and 505 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 5: evolve and improve self awareness, right, I think that's the 506 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 5: piece that's missing to a certain degree with guys. And 507 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,719 Speaker 5: not all guys. Listen, there's no one size fits all 508 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 5: with any of this. There is not. Everybody's their own 509 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 5: individual and every relationship is its own thing. But I 510 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 5: think that's one of the things. The vast majority of 511 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 5: the guys that I deal with, they seem to miss 512 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 5: like and and when you say, like, hey, but what 513 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 5: about this you could have done better? What about that 514 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 5: you could have worked on? It's like, oh no, no, 515 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 5: I'm always the bad guy. You know, what did you 516 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 5: do wrong? What did whoa? Stop pointing to other people, 517 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 5: stop deflecting, stop being defensive, Like just step back. They 518 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 5: always say, like there's a reason why you have two 519 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 5: ears in one mouth, right, because you're supposed to do 520 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 5: twice as much listening as you do talking. But I 521 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 5: think a lot of times with guys, they're not good 522 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 5: at that. And it's not every guy, but it's on 523 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 5: average that's what I see. So like, just sit down, 524 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 5: like shut up, just listen and like like digest it 525 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 5: and like be self aware, right or self evaluated. 526 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: Go to it a meeting. You're gonna hear a bunch 527 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: of men who are taking accountability because you have to. 528 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: That's part of the program that I'm in as well, 529 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: Like you have to take accountability for your addiction, right, 530 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 1: that's the only way to get better and to be 531 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,159 Speaker 1: sober and take everything one day at a time. Until 532 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: you first point the finger at yourself, there is no 533 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,439 Speaker 1: way you know you're going down a slippery slope. So like, 534 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 1: those are the types of men that when you know, 535 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: I go to meetings like, there are men out there 536 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 1: like that, and that's not It's the sexiest thing in 537 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: the world when a man takes accountability, when anybody, I 538 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,919 Speaker 1: don't care what gender or non gender, it is the 539 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:41,119 Speaker 1: sexiest thing. It shows confidence, It shows stability, it shows 540 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: security for me at least I think. 541 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 5: And when I have guys here like and complain like, oh, 542 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 5: you know, there's no physical intimacy with my wife and 543 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 5: this not happens like like, but you're not responsible, You're 544 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 5: not like you're listening, You're not like you know, like, 545 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 5: come on, man. 546 00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 2: Do you think that that's one of the main causes 547 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 2: and in the cases that you see, do you think 548 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 2: it's one of the big factors why people go apart 549 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 2: or there's you know, divorce. 550 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 5: Lack of physical intimacy, right. 551 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, well lack of any obviously, any intimacy emotional or physical. 552 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 2: But I feel like I have I know of people 553 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 2: that have been married five six seven years. I mean 554 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 2: they've been married for years and they haven't been intimate 555 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 2: for five six seven years and they're okay with it. 556 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: I think that's okay. 557 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,880 Speaker 5: That's a really good question, because in twenty five years 558 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 5: of doing this, I think that's what I've gotten throughout 559 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,479 Speaker 5: no physical intimacy for years and people living in it. 560 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 5: What I've been getting over say the past year to 561 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 5: two years is people walking into my office and saying, 562 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 5: we haven't had sex in five years. I can't live 563 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 5: like that anymore. 564 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 2: I know, it's crazy. I hear these stories also because 565 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 2: you know, I have a lot of friends, I own 566 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 2: a beauty bar. 567 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 5: And historically I didn't hear that as much. 568 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 4: So DN when they come into your office, what's the 569 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 4: what are the most important questions that people should ask 570 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 4: considering a divorce, Like give us like three questions. 571 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 5: I mean I think, look, I think with divorce lawyers, 572 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 5: you need to I would probably hang on from me. 573 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 5: I would probably hang on is the lawyer, like like, look, 574 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 5: there are specific questions you can ask, but like a 575 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 5: lot of times people don't even know what questions they ask. 576 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:31,640 Speaker 5: I mean, you can ask like, hey, you know what's 577 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 5: going to happen with the house and the event of 578 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,439 Speaker 5: a divorce, like what happens with my kids? What do 579 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 5: I need to gather? What do I need to prove. 580 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,880 Speaker 5: But I think it's more about asking, Like, it's more 581 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 5: about preparing before you go into the office with the 582 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 5: questions that you have off the top of your head 583 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 5: and gauge what people's answers are, what the lawyer's answers are, 584 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 5: you know, I feel like with lawyers, it's it's important 585 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 5: to have a full picture, right. So if you walk 586 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 5: into to you know, work with a dentist, or have 587 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 5: somebody do you know a medical procedure, or you walk 588 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 5: in for anything, You're going to be analyzing what does 589 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 5: the office look like, How does the staff speak to me, 590 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,400 Speaker 5: How do they treat me? How attentive are they when 591 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 5: I talk to this lawyer, Like do they sound like 592 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 5: they know what they're talking about? Because funny, when I 593 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,160 Speaker 5: first started practicing as a lawyer, I used to do consults, 594 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 5: right as you can imagine. And when I would do 595 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 5: a consult, you know, I tell my boss, I've done 596 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,719 Speaker 5: three or four consults and nobody's hiring me. And then 597 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 5: when I started doing it longer, everybody was hiring me. 598 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 5: And I came to the conclusion that you don't need 599 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 5: to be a lawyer to know when a lawyer's good. 600 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 5: You don't need to have any specialized legal knowledge because 601 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 5: when somebody's good at something, they exude confidence. You can 602 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,239 Speaker 5: see it, you can feel it. It's an energy. So 603 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 5: you got to look for. 604 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: That and do they listen? Right? 605 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 5: So perfect example, I had a client that came into 606 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 5: my office maybe about like I don't know, like maybe 607 00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 5: three or four years ago, and they said, you know 608 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 5: I hired you. I said, because when I went into 609 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 5: your competitor's office while I was talking to him, he 610 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 5: was texting on his phone to say, Oh, hell no, 611 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 5: you gotta be kidding, literally texting, And I'm disgusting. Not 612 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 5: only is that not a lawyer you would want to hire, 613 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 5: but that's rude. It's just rude. Even if we were 614 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 5: having a conversation at the coffee shop, I wouldn't be 615 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 5: texting live. 616 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 3: I had a mediator. I hired a mediator to. 617 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 4: You know, organize my ex husband and I because you know, 618 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 4: first of all, I didn't want my children. 619 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 3: So my biggest thing was the house. 620 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 4: Whatever money was not like I was just that that 621 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 4: was what I was worried concerned about. I was very 622 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 4: concerned about my kids and how things would be perceived 623 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 4: for my kids and my youngest daughter. She went to 624 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 4: they were they you know, they found out that that uh, 625 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 4: my ex husband and I were getting divorced, and my 626 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 4: and they went into talk to my youngest daughter and 627 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 4: they said, you know, how are you And she goes, oh, 628 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 4: you know your parents are getting divorced. 629 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 3: How are you? 630 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 4: And she goes, oh, my parents are separated, and she goes, 631 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 4: everything's great and and they're like, no, no, no, you're your 632 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 4: parents are getting divorced. And she's like, yeah, they're separated. 633 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 4: They're not They're not getting divorced, so just they're separated. 634 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 4: She didn't know the difference because she was young, but 635 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 4: then later on she always says like, mom, I never 636 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 4: even both of them are like I never even felt 637 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 4: any of like the aftermath of a divorce because you 638 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 4: just like like literally just took over. Which was great 639 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 4: for them, but really really bad for me. It was 640 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 4: really really difficult for me. 641 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 3: It was really did or I did not go to therapy? 642 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: I were them your kids? 643 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 4: No, no, my kids did go to some therapy. But 644 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,719 Speaker 4: literally right after I like, was, you know, how am 645 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 4: I going to make money? You know now that I 646 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 4: you know, I'm going to be on my own with 647 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 4: these two girls and they need to have education. 648 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 3: What am I going to do? And so I literally 649 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 3: went on. 650 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 4: Housewives back when it was like, you know, totally different game, 651 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 4: and it was it was probably it was probably one 652 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 4: of the worst decisions that I had made. I mean, 653 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 4: there was so many great things that happened from being 654 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 4: a house. 655 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 1: I can help. Yeah, there was a. 656 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 4: Paycheck, but it was just I was not prepared emotionally 657 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 4: for like. 658 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 3: This is different. 659 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 4: Like I talked to Cheryl and I like literally have 660 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 4: cried in front of Cheryl, like I'm like, this is 661 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 4: like how I'm feeling. And you know, she has a 662 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 4: lot of empathy and she's you know, and Alexi and 663 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 4: I don't know each other that well, but I can, 664 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 4: you know, I just from hearing her story, I feel 665 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 4: comfortable talking to her. 666 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 3: And obviously you're a lawyer, but you know, when I was. 667 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 4: On that show, I did not feel comfortable talking to 668 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 4: them about anything. 669 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 2: It's hard. I'm on that show, Kelly, as you know, 670 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 2: and it is hard. 671 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 3: There's just no camaraderie. 672 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 2: And they were, oh, you know, I've been lucky enough 673 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 2: that I have a best friend online, but like when 674 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 2: you did it, I felt like back in the day, right, Kelly, 675 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 2: I felt the same because you know, our show started 676 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 2: in twenty ten. I know year started before. But with 677 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 2: that being said, back in the day, it was like 678 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 2: everybody was so against each other. I think it's not 679 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 2: a little better, it's still you still it will see 680 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 2: that a lot awful. But I'm lucky enough that I 681 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 2: have my best friend on the show. So like I 682 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 2: knew Lucky at her, I did not very lucky. 683 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 3: It had no I. 684 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 4: Literally knew Luan. Like for a second at from a party, 685 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 4: I didn't knew no one. And so for me just 686 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 4: going into that knowing that I needed to make money 687 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 4: and knowing that I need to provide for my kids, 688 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 4: and going into that after having a. 689 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 3: Mediator, it was just it was very stressful. 690 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 4: So I kind of I wish there was someone who 691 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 4: can say, like men or women, like you're getting divorced, 692 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 4: you know, here the here First of all, here are 693 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 4: the questions to ask me, and then afterwards, like what 694 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 4: are you going to do to start your new life? 695 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 2: Well, everyone's situation is very different, O Kelly. Yeah, everyone's 696 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 2: situation is very different. 697 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 1: When does somebody hire a divorce attorney? Do you do 698 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: this like when you're like still technically married before you've 699 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 1: made the decision to separate, or or what is your advice? 700 00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 5: I mean, I think, Look, you talked to a divorce 701 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 5: lawyer as early on as you can. I think that's 702 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 5: the most important thing, because you know, and I tell 703 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:04,959 Speaker 5: clients when they go into lawyers ze. 704 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 2: So what does that mean as you're still living together. 705 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 5: Let's put it this way. If you've ever had the 706 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 5: idea cross your mind of divorce, if you've ever said 707 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 5: it in a conversation in anger or otherwise, you should 708 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 5: talk to a divorce lawyer behind you. Of course, of 709 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 5: course people do it all the time, and I will 710 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 5: tell you so. So I'll share a no story with 711 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 5: you represented a a stay at home mom. You know, God, 712 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 5: maybe about ten years ago. Now she's in the office. 713 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 5: Oh he would never know I was here, blah blah blah. 714 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 5: Find out throughout the course of the litigation. Two years later. 715 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 5: He talked to a lawyer eight months earlier than she did. So, 716 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 5: so when you think that they haven't spoken with anybody, 717 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 5: this is. 718 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 1: Part of the protect yourself first, like first. 719 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 3: Or you know what happens in New York and Dennis, 720 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 3: you it is that. 721 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 4: What happens is that a lot of people they go 722 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 4: and they talk to every single lawyer and so. 723 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 5: Then conflict them out. That's a that's a dirty trick, 724 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 5: it really is. 725 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 2: Why can't you just like sit down with your partner 726 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 2: before before going behind their back and having that conversation 727 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 2: you know you're here encouraging its situation situational? Well, I 728 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 2: mean that sounds like it's pretty bad. I mean, I 729 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 2: feel like if you have to leave, you have to 730 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 2: go see an attorney, and you know you can't you 731 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 2: haven't had that conversation with your spouse. I think it's 732 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 2: it's a betrayal. I honestly do. I mean, and for me, 733 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 2: I mean not a betrayal because it hasn't happened. But 734 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:34,759 Speaker 2: what I'm trying to say is if you feel the 735 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,760 Speaker 2: need that you have to go see an attorney before 736 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 2: sitting down with your wife and having that conversation, just 737 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:42,359 Speaker 2: like you had it about their premium. 738 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 1: What if you can't have a conversation, well, stand up, No, No, 739 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: I don't mean it literal like that. I don't mean 740 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: it literal like what if you've already tried to the 741 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: point where like you've gone a couple's therapy. But then 742 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 1: let's say someone it's the act of infidelity. Right, let's 743 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:57,280 Speaker 1: just say that this is the situation. 744 00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 2: Well, then you're ready for divorce and that's a deal 745 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 2: breaker for you. But think that you both should know. 746 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 2: And by the way, okay, you cheated on me, so 747 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 2: you know we're going for divorce. 748 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 1: And for the person though who makes the most money 749 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: has to sometimes, like I think, in California at least 750 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 1: you have to almost hire the attorney for your spouse. 751 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 1: Is that correct? 752 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 5: Well, in New York State, I mean, you know there 753 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 5: is an attorneys space. Yeah, but again I think California 754 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 5: may be the same. But I think, look, I think 755 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,360 Speaker 5: just just to your point, just to your point, if 756 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,360 Speaker 5: you're thinking about divorce and you're saying these things in 757 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:36,240 Speaker 5: conversations or it's crossing your life, you should absolutely talk 758 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 5: to them about the problems first. Yeah. And if, like 759 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 5: you said, if they're in a position where they're that 760 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 5: person where it's like, hey, I'm gonna stonewall you or 761 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 5: i'm gonna place blame you. Try you get a professional involved. 762 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 5: You maybe go to a marriage counselor not. Maybe probably 763 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 5: go to a marriage counselor or someone you feel like 764 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 5: you can trust and if and if they're because listen, 765 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,240 Speaker 5: in my experience, especially when the women that I represent, 766 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:05,400 Speaker 5: that marriage has been over four years before they. 767 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 2: Come into my office, it's usually like that. 768 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 5: So they've they've tried, and they've tried, and they've tried, 769 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 5: and they've tried, and there have been conversations, or they 770 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 5: get stonewall, or there's worse yet, there's domestic violence. 771 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,240 Speaker 2: Like no, I feel like you should just tell the person. 772 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 2: By the way, we're getting divorced and I'm going to 773 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 2: an attorney. That's just me personally. 774 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 1: Do women or men hire first? 775 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 6: Like? 776 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 1: What are the stats? 777 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 5: They're like, I don't know the specific status women. 778 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 2: I've actually read women are the ones that file more 779 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:31,359 Speaker 2: than men. 780 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,840 Speaker 5: I would probably say there's a couple of different things. Yes, Alexi, 781 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 5: you one hundred percent right. Women file more than men 782 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 5: to the tune of about sixty five seventy percent or so. 783 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 5: But the funny part about it is most of those 784 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 5: same women have given me signs throughout that the relationship 785 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,239 Speaker 5: has been over for years. I think a lot tis right. 786 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 2: Well, right, okay, So Dennis, let me ask you something 787 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 2: does trial separation always equal divorce or do you see 788 00:36:58,440 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 2: like people reconciling. 789 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:05,760 Speaker 5: I see people reconciling more frequently midstream of divorce litigation 790 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 5: than I do in trial separations. The trial separations I 791 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 5: find is one partner knows they want to be divorced, 792 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:16,759 Speaker 5: and the only way they're going to get the other 793 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 5: side to forgive the expression but play ball with the 794 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,400 Speaker 5: process to not make it long drawn out, is to say, oh, well, 795 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 5: we may get back together again. It's just a trial separation. 796 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:27,719 Speaker 5: It's the only way they can sell it to them. 797 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:29,840 Speaker 5: In fact, I had a conversation about that just today 798 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:31,920 Speaker 5: with one of my associates about a case that we have, 799 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,440 Speaker 5: and and you know, look, people do what they need 800 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 5: to do because every situation is specific, it's its own thing. 801 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 5: They do what they need to do to get through it. 802 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 5: And Kelly, as you said, it's you know, these are 803 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 5: tough processes. There's no perfect path or right answer. You 804 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:50,839 Speaker 5: just do the best you can to get through it. 805 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 5: You know, you want to try to get out, to 806 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,279 Speaker 5: come out on the other side with you know, your 807 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 5: kids intact. Because I find with ladies that tends to 808 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 5: be their focus, like more more than the guys like 809 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:05,879 Speaker 5: kids are everything or sure could be, and yourself only 810 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 5: always comes second, unfortunately, but yourself too. 811 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:10,719 Speaker 1: My dog comes first, so I get it. 812 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:13,359 Speaker 5: I have three of my own, so I get it. 813 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,240 Speaker 1: This is a great place for us to take a pause. 814 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 1: So do you guys have any questions about divorce? Are 815 00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 1: you guys looking for advice now that your relationship or 816 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 1: marriage is over? Call us or email us, follow us 817 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 1: on socials. All the information will be in the show notes, 818 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,239 Speaker 1: so make sure to rate and review the podcast I 819 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 1: Do Part two and iHeartRadio podcast where falling in love 820 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:37,360 Speaker 1: is the main objective.