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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the bott Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is my good friend and ski buddy

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Speaker 1: Andy Summers, who's an agent at a p A. He

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Speaker 1: represents such acts as social distortion. Brian Wilson, the Circle jerks, Andy,

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Speaker 1: Good to have you here. Happy to be here. Okay.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people have no idea what an agent

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Speaker 1: in the music business does. What do they do? Well?

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Speaker 1: It kind of changed. I mean, traditionally, you know, the

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Speaker 1: agent was an employment agent for people who entertained. You know,

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Speaker 1: find me a job, guy with a guitar, guy with

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Speaker 1: a trumpet, find me a job. That was traditionally what

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Speaker 1: agents did. As musicians became more artists, entrepreneurial, etcetera, managers,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot more going on than just find a job.

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Speaker 1: Agents position can change. I mean, the basic nuts and

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Speaker 1: bolts of it is setting up gigs, negotiating the deals, etcetera. Um,

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Speaker 1: But the more to it now is, you know, where

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Speaker 1: do we play? Why do we play here? Um? Are

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Speaker 1: we supporting a record? Are we just out? Hey, I

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Speaker 1: gotta make a living. Um? There's all sorts of different

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Speaker 1: reasons that you know that an age, what what an

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Speaker 1: agent does okay, but an agent, unlike in the movie business. Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's an element of career direction, but it's focused primarily

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Speaker 1: on live gigs, focused on live and you know, different

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Speaker 1: agents have different relationships with their artists, with their managers,

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Speaker 1: with the managers of the artists, or some artists don't

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Speaker 1: have managers. So you know, in the case of some bands,

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Speaker 1: it's just me. You know, we're in the music, we're

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Speaker 1: in the business together. So you obviously will provide a

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Speaker 1: lot more vision in that situation than you do is

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Speaker 1: opposed to just finding gigs and hopefully good. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: you've been doing this for how long? I started? In reality?

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Speaker 1: This current things started in like the mid eighties. Well,

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Speaker 1: that begs a question, the current thing? What was the thing? Well,

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Speaker 1: I was at the in the late seventies. I was

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Speaker 1: at the William Morris mill Room. Okay, legendarily we heard

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Speaker 1: back in that era. I mean David Geffin worked there. Whatever,

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Speaker 1: How did you get that gig? My cousin worked in

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Speaker 1: the personnel department and I had gotten out of college.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to be in music or tell, I wanted

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Speaker 1: to be in the entertainment business, but instead I was

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Speaker 1: working at a coffee factory in Munichi, New Jersey. Where

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Speaker 1: even is that UM Route seventeen Route four around there?

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Speaker 1: It's uh, Hackensack. Let's go back before I know, but

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Speaker 1: my audience doesn't know where you from. Originally, I'm originally

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Speaker 1: from Bronx, New York, UM until I was about nine

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Speaker 1: or ten, and then I'm from Danbury, Connecticut. So you're

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Speaker 1: in Danbury, Connecticut. To what degree are you infected by music? Um? Initially,

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Speaker 1: my older cousin would play met this is still back

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Speaker 1: in the Bronx and mostly doop stuff, and you know,

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Speaker 1: we listen to radio, etcetera. And you know, I can

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Speaker 1: remember listening to the duop stuff but not knowing who

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Speaker 1: any of the names of the acts were. And but

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Speaker 1: I remember hearing Buddy Holly and there was something appealing

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Speaker 1: to me. I didn't think much of it, and then

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Speaker 1: I moved on because I was more about, you know,

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Speaker 1: watching baseball anyway, Um in Connecticut, you know, fifth grade,

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Speaker 1: the Beatles and that's it was all over for me.

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Speaker 1: And did you grow your hair along? Uh? Probably not

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Speaker 1: till about would I have the permission to have done

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Speaker 1: that till about like sixties six sixty seven, And uh,

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Speaker 1: you know. But I did go out to Tom McCann

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Speaker 1: and get a pair of like Cuban heell beetle boots,

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Speaker 1: you know, so I would alternate those between those and

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Speaker 1: Legions penny loafers, you know, because that was what you

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Speaker 1: did in Connecticut. Oh absolutely, But you know, I didn't

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Speaker 1: have the Beatles boots. But I remember convincing my mother

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Speaker 1: that I could wear desert boots to the school dance.

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Speaker 1: But desert boots were the other shoes you wore when

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Speaker 1: you weren't wearing your penny loafers exactly. Remember the Scotch

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Speaker 1: Green penny loafers. I went to school with Betsy Bass.

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Speaker 1: It was Bass Regions. She totally cracked me up. I

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Speaker 1: think she's still involved in the company. So are you

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Speaker 1: a big record collector at that time? Not yet, because

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Speaker 1: records were too expensive and and you know, so you

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Speaker 1: know a couple of times a month, you know, you

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Speaker 1: go to Kaldor and you go buy the records. You're right, right,

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Speaker 1: Caldor was a discount place. It was sort of upscale

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Speaker 1: compared to like Tops. It was like the peak of

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Speaker 1: the discount place. Yeah, so we'd buy record I'd buy

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Speaker 1: an album here and there, and you know, but it

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Speaker 1: was mostly you know, I could buy forty five, but

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Speaker 1: I was listening to the radio. I wouldn't start probably,

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Speaker 1: you know, around sixty was when albums became real important

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Speaker 1: for me to own and like realized it's something to

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Speaker 1: collect and it's it's it's when maybe that's when you

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Speaker 1: realize when you had a record, you don't put your

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Speaker 1: fingers on it, and that and the paper that comes

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Speaker 1: in the in the cardboard cover, you don't throw that

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Speaker 1: out anymore. Absolutely, you're totally cracking me up, especially when

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Speaker 1: you have girlfriends and you're afraid they're gonna put their

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Speaker 1: fingers on the vinyl. That was one of the great things.

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Speaker 1: You just held the edge and flip it over. So uh, Now,

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Speaker 1: if you're in Danbury, what stations are you listening to?

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Speaker 1: Um w d R C from Hartford. You know when

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Speaker 1: when FM started, Scott Muni on from w ABC, moved

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Speaker 1: over to w o R and all of a sudden FM,

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Speaker 1: which was only classic gold music rock station, and then

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Speaker 1: w n WFM. But earlier than that, you know w

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Speaker 1: m C A and w A b C. I mean,

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Speaker 1: cousin Brucey, I listened to w d R C as

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Speaker 1: well as those other things. And also sometimes it was

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Speaker 1: W A v Z out of New Haven and then

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Speaker 1: you could also get the stations from Long Island as time.

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Speaker 1: When I okay, so you graduate from high school and

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Speaker 1: what happened? Um, head off to Elmira College up state

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Speaker 1: New York. We're kind of kind of just west of Binghamton.

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Speaker 1: Oh you know, and just before you get to Horseheads?

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Speaker 1: How far Corning right? How far would it be from

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Speaker 1: there to New York City? Four hours? Okay, So when

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Speaker 1: you're in high school, you're going to gigs. Uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: we would take the train from Brewster, New York and

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Speaker 1: go see uh, you know Poco with Linda ron Staton,

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Speaker 1: Manhattan Transfer opening at the Fillmore East. Um, a lot

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Speaker 1: of Connecticut gigs. I mean the m C five played

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Speaker 1: the Palace Theater in Danbury. The movie theater went to that. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to think what school it was in. Uh,

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Speaker 1: either not West Stanford, Stanford High there they would put

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Speaker 1: out they would have shows. I saw Peter Frampton there,

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Speaker 1: I saw that. I saw the Birds there. I remember

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Speaker 1: it's Staples I saw, which is Westport, which one time

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Speaker 1: over from where I grew up. I know Staples High.

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Speaker 1: I got. I got beat up by some guys from there,

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Speaker 1: coming home from a Danbury High basketball game. It's another

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Speaker 1: story another time. It's not music business related, but I

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Speaker 1: know Staples. Wait, you're how did you get beaten up?

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Speaker 1: I was just walking home with Danbury High had won

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Speaker 1: the game, and I'm walking home because I lived about

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Speaker 1: half a mile from Danbury High. So we're walking home

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Speaker 1: and this car just drives up. I'm walking home with

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Speaker 1: my friend who lived across the street, and these guys

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Speaker 1: just hop out of the car. I tell my friend

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Speaker 1: just start running, and they got me and they beat

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Speaker 1: the crap out of me. Then, you know, then they left.

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Speaker 1: Then I got up and I walked home. Were bedraggled

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Speaker 1: with your parents. You know what It's like. I can

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Speaker 1: handle pain pretty well, you know. You know they saw that.

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Speaker 1: I you know, I was cut up a little bit,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I got a had. These guys from

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Speaker 1: Staples they beat the crap out of me, you know,

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Speaker 1: and that was that. No flood of revenge. Well what

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Speaker 1: am I gonna do? Get on Roots seven and drive

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Speaker 1: down to Stanford. Okay, so, uh you got to Elmira.

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Speaker 1: Do they have concerts at Elmira. They did first one

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Speaker 1: when I was a freshman was the Elves. Ronny James

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Speaker 1: Dio was the lead singer and he was from somewhere

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Speaker 1: in upstate New York. Yeah, I think so. I think

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Speaker 1: the band is from up there, Rochester or something like that.

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Speaker 1: How were they? Um, it's all right, okay, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: like you said there was. There was no life change there. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So who else played when you were in colle um? Oh,

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Speaker 1: we had a great show. It was either Freshman Mountain,

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Speaker 1: John Mayle and Peter Frampton opening and that this was

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Speaker 1: like right after Frampton's camel had come out. So me

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Speaker 1: and my friends were nuts for Peter Frampton and paying him.

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Speaker 1: The school paid him five hundred bucks. Right. Um, we

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Speaker 1: went back that we got to meet him. You know.

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Speaker 1: It's like we you know, we we got so into

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Speaker 1: Peter Frampton that we also knew all about the Herd,

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Speaker 1: you know, and you know, obviously humble Pie now my

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Speaker 1: one of my few claims to fame. I was there

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Speaker 1: when Roger Marri said his sixty one. But I was

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Speaker 1: also at the Fillmore East when Frampton was still in

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Speaker 1: a Humble Pie and then recorded Rocking and Fillmore. That's big.

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Speaker 1: That's big in any event. Any did you travel to

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Speaker 1: other colleges to Bingham to Oh yeah, we I remember

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Speaker 1: going to see the Kinks at Sunny Binghamton. I saw

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Speaker 1: Poco there. We'd go up to Ithaca a lot, so

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Speaker 1: Stevie Wonder at Bailey Hall, cornell Um Elton john on

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Speaker 1: the on his first tour after Davy Johnson joined the

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Speaker 1: band Um the Beach Boys and that and that was

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Speaker 1: like a great period to see the Beach Boys live.

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Speaker 1: I saw him in to Haven Colinson. You know, this

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Speaker 1: was you know, you know, I mean, Brian Wilson wasn't there,

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Speaker 1: but Blondie Chaplin was and Dennis Wilson was there and

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Speaker 1: you know, and and it was that was it was

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Speaker 1: just a great set list, right and then they put

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Speaker 1: out the album Beach Boys in concerts. Now. If you

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Speaker 1: talk to our friend Don Strassburgh was a promoter in Denver,

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Speaker 1: he did his first game. He went to a gig.

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Speaker 1: He said, I want to do this. Okay, were you

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Speaker 1: going to gigs and saying, hey, I want to do this.

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Speaker 1: I want to be in the live business, not necessarily

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Speaker 1: you know what I think I think underneath it all

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Speaker 1: I wanted to be a guitar player. I want, really,

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Speaker 1: I want. I played good enough to be an agent. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, you know it's like you know, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think you have even said this too. You know, at

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Speaker 1: one point you want to be Mickey Mantle, but then

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Speaker 1: but then all of a sudden, no, I want to

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Speaker 1: be George Harrison. Absolutely, I remember vividly. You got it

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Speaker 1: exactly right for that period. But I remember, and this

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Speaker 1: guy tracked me down. I hadn't seen him in forty years,

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Speaker 1: my good friend Mark. He would play and I was

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Speaker 1: there with my guitar one day and he was there

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Speaker 1: with his guitar and he goes, okay, now let's change keys.

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Speaker 1: And I said, I'm out. I was not good enough

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Speaker 1: to do that. But you were actually that good? No,

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Speaker 1: not at all. Okay, but did were you ever in bands? Yes,

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Speaker 1: in college, in high school. Um, in high school, if

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Speaker 1: you got to be in a band, if you had

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Speaker 1: an instrument, right, and uh, even if you could play

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Speaker 1: it or not. And so I actually joined a band

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Speaker 1: with some friends, you know, mostly the friends from Hebrew school.

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Speaker 1: And uh, we started a band. And the guy who

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Speaker 1: couldn't play an instrument, he got to be the lead singer.

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Speaker 1: And I wasn't that good a guitarist. But I had

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Speaker 1: a guitar. What um, it was a Harmony Rocket three,

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Speaker 1: A lot of a lot I had. I had an amplifier,

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Speaker 1: a really good amplifier. He was a Fender Deluxe Reaver,

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Speaker 1: like back in the day, twelve inch with Reaver, which

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Speaker 1: is basically my amp. Now not that same man, but

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Speaker 1: it's a reissue of it. You know that one. It's

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Speaker 1: long gone. But any rate, we started this band and

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Speaker 1: one of the guys, well, I'm trying to think how

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Speaker 1: it happened that I ended up being the bass player,

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Speaker 1: because I ended up being the bass play because I

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Speaker 1: wasn't a good guitar guitarist, and that's you know, you

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Speaker 1: become the bass player. Well, I don't know all these

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Speaker 1: super bass players they played basses with tho frets, Well

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Speaker 1: those those are real musicians. I mean, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of bands out there where the bass player is just

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Speaker 1: their friend as opposed to a musicians. Yeah, but then

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Speaker 1: there's a lot you know, because in my mind, the

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Speaker 1: backbone to any great song is how good a bass

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Speaker 1: player do you have? And how tasteful does the bass

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Speaker 1: player play? More than the drummer. They're locked they need

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Speaker 1: to be locked in. Okay. So you graduate from college

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Speaker 1: and you move where, Um to Hackensack, New Jersey. Why Hackensack,

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Speaker 1: New Jersey? Because I got a job at the coffee factory,

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Speaker 1: and that's something you applied for. It's hard to get

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Speaker 1: a job when you get out of I know, I know,

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Speaker 1: but I don't say, oh, I'm gonna look for a

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Speaker 1: job at Hackenson, you know what. I just wanted to

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Speaker 1: make money and get started. How did you actually get

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Speaker 1: the job? Were they recruiting on campus or something? Um?

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Speaker 1: I think I saw an ad and I applied for it.

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Speaker 1: I knew it was like who's been to the assistant

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Speaker 1: to the factories? The manager there in the packaging department. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'd come home smelling like roasted coffee every night. It

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Speaker 1: was a place called Wexlaer Coffee where they had their

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Speaker 1: own brand, but they also packaged Dunkin Donuts coffee. You know,

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Speaker 1: it was same coffee, just different thing. Um. So I

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Speaker 1: was literally there for about maybe six weeks when I

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Speaker 1: get the call that I got an interview at William Morris. Um,

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Speaker 1: what was your cousin doing that he could get you

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Speaker 1: the interview her, and she was she was the assistant

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Speaker 1: to the head of personnel. And was she a close cousin. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we all grew up on the same block in the Bronx.

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Speaker 1: So I got the interview. I mean obviously she kept putting,

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Speaker 1: you know, my resume on the top of the pile.

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Speaker 1: So when it was time for them to high air

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Speaker 1: and I got the job. So I quit the coffee factory.

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Speaker 1: I think they saw it coming. They knew that this

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Speaker 1: was a placeholder for gathering some income. And so I

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Speaker 1: was at the in the mail room. And when you

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Speaker 1: moved to New York City, uh not for a year.

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Speaker 1: I I literally just took the bus in from New

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Speaker 1: Jersey because I had a year lease on the apartment

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Speaker 1: in Hackensack, and worked my way into the music department.

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Speaker 1: Became a little bit slower for those people. Okay, you're

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Speaker 1: in the mail room. What do you actually do in

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Speaker 1: the mail room? You deliver mail, sort the mail, make copies. Um,

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Speaker 1: you sit on the reception desk when the receptionist is

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Speaker 1: uh is that lunch? Um? You run errands. So when

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Speaker 1: you're there, how many people are in the mail room,

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Speaker 1: Probably about eight to ten trainees at any given time.

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Speaker 1: And were any of them women? No, not in nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy nine, no, different totally. Okay. How many of those

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Speaker 1: people make it up the ladder and how many people

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Speaker 1: wash out? Um? Probably about sixties sevent make it up

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Speaker 1: the ladder to an assistant. And I don't know how

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Speaker 1: it works now at those companies and I'm removed from it.

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Speaker 1: But you know, you'd become an assistant to an agent.

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Speaker 1: Let's say we're in the mail room. How long you're

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Speaker 1: in the mail room before you stop doing that? For

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Speaker 1: me it was little over a year, okay. And are

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Speaker 1: you looking for opportunities or do they find the opportunities

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Speaker 1: for you? You make friends? At that time I was

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Speaker 1: making friends with you know, the agents upstairs and the

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Speaker 1: assistance upstairs. They knew that my target was mused um.

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Speaker 1: And then when the spot opened, I got it. And uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, when you're an assistant there um, there's rules

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Speaker 1: to follow, you know, just it's a corporate structure there um,

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Speaker 1: which I don't fit in with very well. And you know,

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Speaker 1: as as the department evolved, all of a sudden, somebody's

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Speaker 1: in charge of the department. That's like that gets me, um,

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Speaker 1: your friend and mine, Wayne Forte, he was in charge

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Speaker 1: of the department. He was the head of the department

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Speaker 1: during a time when like I was really developing my skills.

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Speaker 1: I mean we were we were out every night, all

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Speaker 1: the assistants. We're out every night, or at Rahs, Max's, CBGBs,

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Speaker 1: the mud club at like where the headliner comes on

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Speaker 1: at one thirty to two o'clock in the morning. And

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Speaker 1: you got to be at work what time, by ten,

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Speaker 1: But if you're smart, you're there at your desk by

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Speaker 1: thirty nine, you know. And you know, so having done that,

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Speaker 1: you know, you also start getting itchy. So I ended

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Speaker 1: up finding a band to manage um to hone my

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Speaker 1: skills with. And you know that's totally not part of

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Speaker 1: the rules. But and also for these guys in this

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Speaker 1: band who have who are still to this day very

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Speaker 1: close friends of mine, you know, they trusted in me

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Speaker 1: um and I didn't know ship. I mean I literally

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Speaker 1: they were guinea pigs, you know, but they had nobody else.

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Speaker 1: I just loved them. I thought they were really good.

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Speaker 1: Just go back for a second. When you're out every night,

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Speaker 1: are you going to see the company's bands or are

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Speaker 1: you looking for new talent to sign a little of both,

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Speaker 1: not really looking on behalf of the I was. I

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Speaker 1: was typing contract so all day I was answering phones. Um,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't ready to go sign a band to the agency.

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Speaker 1: I hadn't honed my skills. You know, I was out,

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Speaker 1: you know, because you know, I guess one of the

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Speaker 1: highlights of my career early on was I was out

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Speaker 1: enough people knew I where I worked that the day

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Speaker 1: I knew, I could walk to C. B. G B's

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Speaker 1: Hilly Crystals, sitting there and I get in free, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean easily one of the ten highlights of my

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Speaker 1: career when I when I'd go to Max's Kansas City

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Speaker 1: and I've been sitting at the door, come on in,

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Speaker 1: you know, ever being at the Roxy and I still

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Speaker 1: have it when the table was reserved and it was

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Speaker 1: my name, I took that sting. That was one of

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Speaker 1: the same things. So I mean that those were magic,

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Speaker 1: And you know, so I get to go see Johnny Thunders,

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Speaker 1: I'd get to go to shows and go I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to be entertained when I wasn't doing business. I

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Speaker 1: wanted to go see bands. If I wasn't at Yankee Stadium. Okay,

329
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Speaker 1: so how did you find this band to manage? Um?

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Speaker 1: I started. I met this girl who was managing a

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Speaker 1: band and asked who asked me if I had help?

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Speaker 1: All right, And this was quasi romance. No what No,

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Speaker 1: not at all, not at all, just somebody I met,

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Speaker 1: And like, I'm just meeting people who are involved because

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Speaker 1: I'm making friends, making meeting new people, um that are

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Speaker 1: on the scene in New York. Because prior to that,

337
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Speaker 1: I was just a college kid who go into the

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Speaker 1: city to go watch bands. So now I'm part of

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to incorporate myself into this scene. And I go,

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Speaker 1: I saw this band, I said, yeah, I'd like to

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Speaker 1: help him out, but then I got blown out instantly, right, um.

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Speaker 1: But through her, I met this other band, UM band

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Speaker 1: called the Boyfriends, UM four guys UM that I could tell.

344
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Speaker 1: Their influences were you know, the Beatles, the Stones, and

345
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Speaker 1: they were living in the punk rock world, um, which

346
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Speaker 1: is no different than when we first all discovered the Ramons.

347
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Speaker 1: You knew, God, these guys loved the Beatles and the

348
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Speaker 1: Beach Boys, you know, at a time when like music

349
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Speaker 1: was all about bands, Like yes, there was a refreshment there.

350
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Speaker 1: So so I started managing this band and really wasn't

351
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Speaker 1: that smart of a manager. I was just because I

352
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Speaker 1: was at an agency and I was meeting promoters and clubs.

353
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 1: I was getting them really really good gigs. And ultimately, Wayne,

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Speaker 1: who was the head of the department, and you know this,

355
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,360
Speaker 1: he's the represents David Bowie. He's brought in the Clash

356
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Speaker 1: and the Jam, all of these bands that like, we're

357
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 1: cooler than anything new at the time for me. Um,

358
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Speaker 1: he kind of saw what I was doing, um and

359
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:03,639
Speaker 1: let me get away with it. Yeah. And uh. He

360
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 1: had this band on Columbia called the Hitmen and they

361
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Speaker 1: were coming out around the same time as a psychedelic

362
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Speaker 1: first same label, and he goes, Andy, this band is

363
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Speaker 1: going to move to New York. They're gonna be here

364
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Speaker 1: for eight months or two a year, and they want

365
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Speaker 1: to work like a local band. I want to see

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Speaker 1: them getting the kind of gigs that you're stupid band

367
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Speaker 1: is good. And from that was it. I got instinct

368
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Speaker 1: and was able to achieve results. I was able to

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Speaker 1: achieve results, and I did a good enough job that

370
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Speaker 1: that Wayne, as head of the department, ran interference with

371
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Speaker 1: the people upstairs about the fact that I wore sneakers

372
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Speaker 1: to work every day. So that was good, very important,

373
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Speaker 1: very important. Okay, and don't you fumble at first booking gigs. Um,

374
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Speaker 1: I got the hang of it pretty quick, you know what,

375
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 1: I don't you know what. I worked for this agent

376
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Speaker 1: as the assistant to this guy Stewinstrub, and he was

377
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 1: very plugged in. I mean his acts were like you know,

378
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 1: Andy Gibb and Herbie Hancock, and he was a territorial booker.

379
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Speaker 1: So through him I would hear his tech. You know,

380
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Speaker 1: you had a listening device, so I'm hearing I'm hearing him.

381
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 1: I'm hearing his rap the way he does it. Um.

382
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Speaker 1: And there was a real sincerity to him that because

383
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Speaker 1: I knew him, I knew that was real sincerity. It

384
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: wasn't like, you know, I wasn't jive talking, and so

385
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: I probably picked up a little bit of how he

386
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,959
Speaker 1: does it, and I know what my personality is and uh,

387
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 1: and I knew I was learning the mechanics of of

388
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: numbers of how you know, gigs work and up and

389
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 1: just gathering it. But you know, the focus was, Hey,

390
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: I get to be close to music. Okay, So you're

391
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Speaker 1: managing this band, you're working with a hit man. And

392
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Speaker 1: what happens next? Um, both bands flopped despite me having

393
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 1: done a good job. UM, And what happens next is

394
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: at at William Morris Wayne Wayne leaves to start I

395
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 1: t G with another agent, etcetera. I'm left there, A

396
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: new department head is brought in from the outside who

397
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 1: has a young gun, etcetera. And I had been promoted

398
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:51,159
Speaker 1: to agent literally right before Wayne left. UM And realistically

399
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 1: I probably wasn't ready. I just think I was rewarded

400
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: for whatever. But I knew I was going to ultimately

401
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,719
Speaker 1: be able to do it. But I also knew for

402
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: some reason, I had this weird feeling that the new regime,

403
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: it's like, I'm not gonna last. And I had that.

404
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 1: I knew that I wasn't gonna last. And Ian Copeland

405
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,880
Speaker 1: had had called me from FBI, had had reached out

406
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: a few months earlier. So the minute I sensed and

407
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 1: I literally was dedicated, I was going to stay where

408
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: I was. But the minute I got the feeling I

409
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: was going to end up getting fired. UM. I called

410
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 1: Ian and he offered me the gig, and he goes,

411
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: when can you start? And I said, well, you gotta

412
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: wait till after I get fired here, because they're gonna

413
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: give me severance pay if I if I if I quit,

414
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: if I don't, as long as I don't quit. And

415
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: that all happened, and I literally went went to work

416
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 1: for Ian and uh, you know, FBI was like the

417
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 1: coolest place in the world. UM they were really the

418
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 1: first boutique agency in in the line of many boutique

419
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: agencies that came afterwards. UM. I was there for about

420
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 1: six weeks and I got some sort of an anxiety that's,

421
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to be an agent. I

422
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: want to be a manager because I had had so

423
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 1: much fun managing the Boyfriends. UM. So for about three

424
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 1: years or so, I became a manager. I had a partner.

425
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 1: We were managing a band called the Rousers. We were

426
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 1: managing Wayne Kramer because we had met Wayne through Johnny Thunders,

427
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 1: who me and my partner had had worked with UM

428
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: and uh, we were just doing that and we'd pick

429
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: up an occasional band to book just for cash flow.

430
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: But it was you quit FBI after how long? About

431
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: six weeks? And what did he Copeland say? Not a lot,

432
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: not a lot. It's just okay. We could tell you

433
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: weren't feeling it okay, but generally speaking he was always great.

434
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 1: Management is a license to starve, and I did, and

435
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 1: I did, and then uh Uh, once I realized I

436
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: was starving, that was that. And then another friend of mine,

437
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: who had been an agent at a company called Variety

438
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:34,360
Speaker 1: in in Minneapolis, um Uh went to work uh at

439
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: a small agency called Singer Management, which was run by

440
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:43,239
Speaker 1: Bob Singerman. Frank Riley was working there, etcetera. So my

441
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: friend goes to work there, my friend Arnie. And about

442
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: a week after he's there is when Frank left to

443
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: start venture booking. Um and I get a call, Hey,

444
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: will you come in and just help us books and bands?

445
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: We got stuff to do. I said, okay, I'll come

446
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: for a little bit. In the first two weeks, um

447
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 1: I signed the Gun Club, Arnie starts signing the entire

448
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: roster from Alligator Records. Um Uh signed a band on

449
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: Caroline called Gene Loves Jezebel. And we're off to the races.

450
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: And so we have our our agency going. We find

451
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: this is being an agent, this is not I'm an

452
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: agent again. I'm totally an agent again. And all of

453
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: a sudden, I'm getting about two three hundred dollars a

454
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: week to take home, right, Okay, I'm good with that.

455
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: And your parents supportive or not not supportive? Uh? They

456
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: were real supportive, real supportive. Um, I really said. My

457
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: dad didn't get to see the year when everything just

458
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: click and turned around for me, but he believed that

459
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: I was gonna do something right. So so we have

460
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: this little agency and we move up town. We find

461
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: a lawyer who has office space. We move uptown from

462
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: the Cable building which was down on Canal Street on

463
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: Houston Street and Broadway, and at the time in that building,

464
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: Frank Riley was upstairs and Venture Booking Steve Martin had

465
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: the music business agency in that building. And so we

466
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: go uptown and we started our agency and through through

467
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: the lawyer, we get turned on two people, Roadrunner Records,

468
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, I'm starting to learn about

469
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: metal but the speed metal thing. Um. And the name

470
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: of your company is at that time, it's called Talent Resource,

471
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: but it changes after my partner and I kind of

472
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: split up. Well before we get there, you get your

473
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: hooked up with road Runner Record. Yeah, and I'm starting

474
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: to go out and I went to see a show. Uh,

475
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: Venom Slayer at Exodus, and I think it was as

476
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: Studio fifty four, and I'm watching this and to me,

477
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: it's hardcore punk rock, except there's long hair and lead

478
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: guitar solos, and and the solos were just very very fast,

479
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: not not tasteful at all. Um, but something was going

480
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: on with it, and I was connected enough, and we

481
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: had another We hired a young guy named Dean to

482
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: work with us, and through the lawyer, he gets turned

483
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: on to to to get a call with with Dave

484
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: Mustain and we signed Meganeth and somehow Dave and I

485
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: just became close and you know, but and he and

486
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: I got along, so so we had that going. And

487
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: my partner and I didn't see eye to eye on

488
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,959
Speaker 1: how to run the company. More so that like he

489
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: was real serious about it. Had the computer, We're doing projections,

490
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: and and my attitude was, look, book dates, collect deposits,

491
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: pay our bills, don't worry about anything until we bounce

492
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: a check. Let's just move forward. Um. I'm not that

493
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: great with numbers when it comes to stuff like that.

494
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: My attitude was, Hey, if I don't bounce a check,

495
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: I don't need to know how much money I have

496
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: as long as I don't know people money. So we

497
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: split that up. We split up. I go to my

498
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: apartment and start booking punk rock and speed metal bands

499
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: and a few alternative bands. Arnie stays in business and

500
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: he's doing the blues acts and some rock acts, and

501
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: ultimately he ended up bailing. So I ended up getting

502
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: the office back, and I had been what did he

503
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: end up doing? You look, music business? He left, He

504
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: left to do other stuff, and I ended up change

505
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: calling the company Bandwagon, and Bend started getting popular. I

506
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: mean that you know, the Circle Jerks and GBH and

507
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: the Exploited and you know Megadeath, Um Celtic, Frost Metal

508
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 1: Church there. Wow, I'm putting dinner on the table for

509
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: myself and and it was great. It was exciting and

510
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: it was fun um and you know, ultimately, I kept

511
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: the Bandwagon rolling for about two or three years. And

512
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: then he and Copeland calls, right, and so we talked,

513
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,719
Speaker 1: and yeah, sure, I'm gonna come back to FBI because

514
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: Ian was great, is legend one of you know, he's

515
00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 1: a legendary and uh and also probably the best boss

516
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: I ever had, just the most hospitable person in the world.

517
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: And it was a great vibe up there, and I

518
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,760
Speaker 1: got to do my thing with with my clients, et cetera.

519
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: I got to meet other new people because they were

520
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: so plugged in in a totally different avenue, in a

521
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 1: different direction, but they weren't doing any any real modern

522
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:28,879
Speaker 1: hardcore music or or or metal. Um so I fit in.

523
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 1: They fit with me, and Ian was a great boss,

524
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: and you know, getting a note Buck Williams and getting

525
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: Rick Shore and and then John Ditmark came in, and

526
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 1: you know, it was really really a good thing and

527
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: that that brought us to and what happened in nineteen

528
00:34:54,719 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: uh for nine, at the end of the year, um

529
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: I got convinced to leave FBI and moved to California,

530
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 1: and so I did. And the company was it was

531
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: called Triad Artists, which which got purchased by William Morris

532
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 1: like two or three years after I moved out here,

533
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: but I had already left there by the time that

534
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: purchase came. And Triad was who who was working a Triad?

535
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: Well I was you know, for me going there, it

536
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 1: was you know, Peter gross Late and Mark geiger Um.

537
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,240
Speaker 1: But you know, a lot of a lot of agents

538
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 1: that are out there in the world. Now we're part

539
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 1: of you know, of of the Triad that I first

540
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: came into. And why did you leave Triad because Peter

541
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: wanted me to well, you gotta go a little bit deeper,

542
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: especially since Peterson I think, you know, I know, I

543
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: think they had higher expectations of how much commission I

544
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 1: could bring in then I actually brought in. So they

545
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 1: didn't renew my contract. Um, I was all set to

546
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: do Bandwagon again because that was when I was sort

547
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 1: of the happiest between their and FBI and the when

548
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: when you're in the metal business and you're an independent

549
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 1: especially in the eighties, and you're an independent agent and

550
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 1: not as savvy as like the major players are, you

551
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: get poached a lot. And so I got poached big

552
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,240
Speaker 1: time by I c M. But I but at Triad,

553
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 1: I did a package with with Mega Ethan some of

554
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: their bands got and it was the first time I

555
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 1: got to know Bill Elson, who was running I c

556
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: M at the time. And uh, but it never dawned

557
00:36:55,960 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: on me to to think about going there. And and

558
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: a friend of mine is a manager manager of one

559
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 1: of my acts, UM says you should go talk to Bill.

560
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 1: And I remember going to talk to Bill, and it

561
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 1: was literally the day after the Rodney King riots and

562
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 1: we're having breakfast at the Four Seasons. And the first

563
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 1: thing he said to me, which got me going, because

564
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: I'm an independent spirit in this all of this, was

565
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm sitting there with all this power,

566
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: and there's a whole generation of new young promoters out

567
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 1: there and managed and I don't know any of them,

568
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 1: and I don't think my people know any of them.

569
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: And I was really impressed with that. It's only because

570
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: of the horror stories i'd heard about this guy and

571
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: what a terror he can be. And he was really smart,

572
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 1: was really way smarter than me, and I said he

573
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: and and I also knew that I would be isolated

574
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 1: in the West Coast office, away from the main structure,

575
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 1: and he never allowed booking to be out of the

576
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,919
Speaker 1: out of the West Coast office, and it's and it's

577
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 1: a territorial thing. And I told him after that, if

578
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: I come, I have to book. And if you're a

579
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: territorial thing, I have to book a territory. I have

580
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: to be part of that. But I have to be

581
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: able to book top to bottom. In other words, some

582
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 1: agents it's like, oh I don't book clubs anymore. I

583
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 1: don't do that. I don't have to do that. I

584
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: needed to book top to bottom. I had a lot

585
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 1: to learn about booking the top. I knew how to

586
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 1: book the bottom really, really well. And I didn't want

587
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 1: to give that up because I enjoy that. I enjoy

588
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: the development, and you know, it's less stressful. So he said, okay,

589
00:38:55,440 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 1: and and then I was able to get you know,

590
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 1: and he moved one of the agents from New York

591
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:08,800
Speaker 1: out to California, and I was able to bring my assistant,

592
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: who I had had a triad. I convinced him to

593
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 1: come over to I c M with me um and

594
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,879
Speaker 1: I was there for about I think I was there

595
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,280
Speaker 1: for six years. So it was good. Yeah, when you're assistant.

596
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 1: It was a guy named Brian Greenbaum who's an agent

597
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,879
Speaker 1: now c A A somewhere like that. Yeah, it does well,

598
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: you said, A fascinating thing to be discussed. One seed,

599
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: hees Paul Simon, Bob Dylan. He said, if the student

600
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: doesn't exceed the teacher, you're a bad teacher, yea, or

601
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 1: there's no progress. Okay. So there at I c M

602
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: for six or seven years, then what happens um. Bill.

603
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 1: There was a bunch of firings about five years into it.

604
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: Among them was Bill Elson. Um, And uh, you know,

605
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: I stayed through my contract and just realized I didn't

606
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: I want to stay. UM. I don't know if they

607
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 1: wanted me to stay. It just never got to that

608
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: I was gonna leave. Um. And once they realized I'm

609
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: not going to stay, three months before the contracts up,

610
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 1: they make me leave. So yeah, they I had to

611
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: negotiate thing. I go, look, I'm going to work out

612
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: the contract. Well, we're just gonna pay you, but you

613
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: gotta leave. I go, no, but the contract says you'll

614
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 1: put a roof over my head and pay for my assistant, etcetera, etcetera.

615
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,280
Speaker 1: So a little back and forth. They were the guy,

616
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 1: the lawyer there was really honorable to me. It was

617
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 1: all fair and it was all good except and and

618
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: by that time, you know, Brian had already left and

619
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 1: he was starting his career at CIA. My assistant at

620
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 1: the time was was Val Wolf, who had previously been

621
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: Bryan's assistant after he got promoted. So I ended up

622
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 1: leaving and I go, ship, I don't have a job,

623
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 1: I don't have a place to work. I want to

624
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 1: start bandwagon again, but like, I have to start it tomorrow.

625
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 1: And fortunately, um Rick Van Stanton and Paul Toilette, who

626
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: are my friends, come over to the Golden Voice house.

627
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 1: Golden Voice was located on Sunset Boulevard in like this house, right,

628
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: We'll give you office space. Just come on over start

629
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: your company. UM. So I went out. I bought a

630
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: I bought a computer because I didn't have a computer

631
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: of my own. You know, I think I bought like

632
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 1: an It was before the Apple, before the G the

633
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 1: G three was whatever came before that. I don't know

634
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,760
Speaker 1: what it was, right, it was an Apple, of course.

635
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:05,479
Speaker 1: Um And I literally started my agency the next day.

636
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 1: I started bandwagon the next day, working out a Golden Voice,

637
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: got a p O box and got it going, got

638
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 1: it started, um and I and the entire time from

639
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 1: the time I started it, UM, I was never in

640
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: I was never in the red. I was making a

641
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 1: lot of money. I was literally never in the red.

642
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 1: And you know, ultimately I got an office on Melrose. Um.

643
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: Once I had the office, Val Wolfe left, I c

644
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 1: M came over and joined me. Our old intern from

645
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 1: I c M. Melody King came over and joined us.

646
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: She was going to be the office manager, but it

647
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:56,839
Speaker 1: was a three person operation, and I figured I might

648
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: as well do this right, so I I got a

649
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: business manager. I learned, oh, you gotta put up a bond,

650
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 1: you gotta get a talent agency license, you gotta do

651
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 1: all of this, which when I was bandwagon in New York,

652
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: I never had. Okay, so I hope. Fortunately there's a

653
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: statute of limitations, so I don't know anybody, so I

654
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: don't have to give anybody their commissions back. Um, but

655
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 1: we ran it properly and right, and it stayed in

656
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 1: the black and it was a lot of fun, and

657
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 1: it was it was good, and it was good. And

658
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 1: then around the turn of the century. Now it takes

659
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,760
Speaker 1: us to the turn of the century and Steve Martin

660
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 1: and Neil Warnock wanted to open up the Agency Group

661
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 1: in California and my kids were probably five six or

662
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: something and maybe less. Um. I don't want to do

663
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 1: the math right now, but all of a sudden, I'm

664
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:01,439
Speaker 1: thinking I'm sitting there and it's my responsibility, besides paying

665
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:06,760
Speaker 1: the salaries, making sure that that everyone has health insurance,

666
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 1: making sure we pay our taxes, I gotta look at

667
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,360
Speaker 1: the books half the time and stuff like that. I go,

668
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 1: this seems like a good opportunity to not have to

669
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 1: do that. As much as I like Bandwagon, but I

670
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 1: would never have gone to a big company like that again.

671
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: It just I just this felt like Bandwagon meets FBI,

672
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 1: and it'll just be me and about five people in

673
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 1: a California office and they're already running in Toronto, London

674
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 1: and New York. And it was also Steve Martin, who

675
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 1: is one of my favorite people in the world. So

676
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: we opened up the Agency Group's West Coast office. Um,

677
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:58,479
Speaker 1: it was basically myself, Val Melody, Dave Kirby who moved

678
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 1: out from Agency Group in New York, and Andrew good

679
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: Friend who moved out from Agency Group in New York.

680
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 1: And about three months later, Steve Martin hires Bruce Solar,

681
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:14,240
Speaker 1: who had his own company up in San Francisco, Absolute Artists,

682
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 1: and Bruce came in. And I didn't know Bruce that well. Um,

683
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,280
Speaker 1: I couldn't do what I do now without having Bruce

684
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 1: around and vice versa. I'd like to think, Um, and

685
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,760
Speaker 1: he's an amazing agent. Okay, So you're at Agency Group

686
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 1: and then the Agency Group goes with changes you end

687
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: up at a p A. So let's talk a little

688
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:45,399
Speaker 1: bit more about the business. You mean, are you are

689
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 1: the agent for Social Distortion? Okay? Do they have a manager? Uh? Yeah,

690
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 1: they had a manager when I first started working with

691
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 1: them back in New York when I was at FBI.

692
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 1: The manager was Jim Gearno, who I knew as a

693
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: promoter um at the time. But he's no. Do they

694
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,399
Speaker 1: have a manager now? Yes they do? Okay, So tell

695
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:08,360
Speaker 1: us what it's like. What are you what kind of

696
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: discussions do you have and what kind of decisions do

697
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 1: you make with Social Distortion? I think you know, the manager,

698
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 1: Shane Schueln and I, you know, we talked about you know, yeah,

699
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 1: when are we when? When's this band going to make

700
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,799
Speaker 1: another record soon? Um? But the the whole thing is

701
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: that this band has like this great fan base. You know,

702
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,439
Speaker 1: it came out of punk rock, but there's so much

703
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 1: more than that to this band. UM to the point

704
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 1: where we could play ont On country music festivals, um,

705
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: as well as rock festivals as well as play punk

706
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 1: rock events. So I think I think it's really about

707
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 1: maintaining you know, this is a band that doesn't put

708
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 1: records out every three years. So, but they were a

709
00:46:55,880 --> 00:47:00,760
Speaker 1: working band. They Fortunately, there's a lot of so many markets.

710
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: I can call up and say Social Distortion and the

711
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 1: promoter wants to do it. Okay, let's start from the beginning.

712
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 1: You mentioned a record. How important is a new record

713
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 1: at this point? Um, for a band like that, I

714
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 1: think it's about relevance. It's about letting their fans know

715
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:28,439
Speaker 1: there's still that they're relevant, they're still productive, etcetera. Now,

716
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:33,280
Speaker 1: Social Distortions fans don't have expectations of an album every

717
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 1: once in a while. They have their expactations that there's

718
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:40,839
Speaker 1: gonna be time in between albums, but they also know

719
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 1: that when the album comes out that it's not this

720
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: one's a bummer. That's not going to happen, you know,

721
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think Mike Ness would let that happen. Okay,

722
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: So let's assume you're talking to the Meanderty. The band

723
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 1: is gonna work. How many dates a year does the

724
00:47:56,560 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 1: band do? They do probably a hundred and fifty dates

725
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 1: a year, anywhere between a hundred and twenty a hundred

726
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:12,320
Speaker 1: and fifty dates a year. They'll go out for two months,

727
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: sometimes two and a half months at a time. But

728
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 1: they do that, they can do that twice a year.

729
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:22,720
Speaker 1: So how far in advance of these tours booked? Um?

730
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 1: Hopefully you know I'd like it to be, you know,

731
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 1: have a nice six months or longer plan. Um. Sometimes

732
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 1: it's like I'm booking something on yeah, three months notice.

733
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 1: I've I've had bands need me to do stuff for

734
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:49,839
Speaker 1: them on two months notice. Um, okay, well, let's just

735
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 1: you know, use the example of social distortion. They come

736
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 1: to you, they're gonna go on a three month tour.

737
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:59,319
Speaker 1: Let's assume they give you the six months notice. How

738
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 1: do you just thought i'd wear rooms? Uh? Ticket price

739
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:08,879
Speaker 1: and all that ticket price? Um, we've inched up. We've

740
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: inched their ticket prices up. I and you know, ten

741
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:18,760
Speaker 1: years ago, ticket price wise, I probably underpriced them. Um,

742
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 1: whether that was my own paranoia or just watching how

743
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 1: things were starting to get out of hand in our business.

744
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 1: I said, I don't want to be part of that,

745
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 1: but I also don't want to eliminate the opportunity for

746
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: the band to make as good a living as possible

747
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:39,720
Speaker 1: in an honorable way. So I think so we've inched

748
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: it up. We've inched it up. We're still very reasonable

749
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 1: I think for the most part, we're averaging thirty set

750
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 1: compared to the marketplace. It's very long, it's still it's reasonable.

751
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 1: It's low, and it's reasonable. UM, and we'll keep going up.

752
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 1: But I don't want to cross the line of unreasonable. Okay,

753
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:11,239
Speaker 1: but I'm coming and we're gonna go on a tour.

754
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 1: How do you decide routing, venues, price, etcetera. UM, I

755
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:20,320
Speaker 1: basically try to estimate how many tickets can I sell

756
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: at this ticket price in this market. And let's let's

757
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 1: say I say the number is two thousand, because I

758
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 1: don't know what the plan is next year or the

759
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 1: year after, etcetera. Other than the band's going to want

760
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 1: to work. They and they get it when we all

761
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:43,760
Speaker 1: talk about it, I'll play the fifteen hundred to seventeen

762
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: hundred seater. UM, leave something on the table. This we're

763
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 1: not We usually on average don't spend a lot of

764
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 1: money on support bands. The support bands are really great entertainment.

765
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:00,040
Speaker 1: That that's a musical fit. We're always were thinking in

766
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,840
Speaker 1: about the Social Distortion audience when they get there. We

767
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 1: want to make sure if there's two bands playing before

768
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 1: Social d that that they're entertaining that audience. Okay, let's

769
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:17,879
Speaker 1: assume you're opening for sociality. How much you're gonna make, um,

770
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:21,319
Speaker 1: five hundred to three thousand dollars? Okay, So it's an

771
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:25,720
Speaker 1: opportunity as opposed to a profit making. Well, it's an opportunity.

772
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 1: But when when we see something that we really would

773
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 1: want and and they're worth hundred but demanding two thousand,

774
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,439
Speaker 1: we'll pay it. It's for the integrity of the show

775
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 1: itself from beginning to end. Okay. So let's assume you say, Okay,

776
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 1: I think I can sell two thousand. I want to

777
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 1: go to a fifteen hundred. How do you decide what

778
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:55,320
Speaker 1: cities and what buildings? Um? I look at where we've been. Um,

779
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 1: when was the last time we played a market? Um?

780
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 1: How many markets did I skip? Like you know, on

781
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 1: last year's tour, I had more flexibility because the tour

782
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 1: before that didn't play New York, didn't play Boston, didn't

783
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 1: play Chicago, didn't play Florida at all. This band can

784
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:19,240
Speaker 1: go out and play a lot of shows, and there's

785
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 1: markets that are obvious. Most bands would need to have

786
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 1: to play to get a national tour, get around the

787
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 1: country in and out. We this band has enough markets

788
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:33,760
Speaker 1: where they're welcome that I can sometimes skip certain markets

789
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 1: on any given tour. So, you know, the other thing

790
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:40,439
Speaker 1: that we've done with it with with them a lot

791
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 1: is they'll play multiples. They'll they'll go into a market

792
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 1: you know where you know in Chicago instead of playing

793
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:56,800
Speaker 1: the Aragon Ballroom three nights at the House of Blues. Um.

794
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 1: There's less wear and tear and travel. And when you're

795
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,840
Speaker 1: playing a smaller venue and you're not a band putting

796
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:07,280
Speaker 1: out records quite a lot um in a large venue,

797
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 1: the concert experiences different depending on where you're located. So,

798
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 1: you know, you go play at the Aragon, you go

799
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:18,360
Speaker 1: play an arena, you know, you go play at the

800
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: Shrine downtown l A. The two thousand people towards the

801
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 1: front of the stage are getting a way different show

802
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 1: than the three thousand people behind them. So the the

803
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:33,240
Speaker 1: purpose of the multiples that's worked for for this band

804
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 1: has been everyone in the back is getting the same

805
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 1: show as the people in the front, because we want

806
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 1: to ensure that after that when we come back a

807
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 1: year later, no matter where we play or two years later,

808
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 1: that they're coming back um, because we're not putting out product.

809
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 1: So so they're not in the press all the time.

810
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:58,120
Speaker 1: We're not TV stars. Um, it's an ongoing business that

811
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 1: you know, the band celebrating at anniversary this year. Wow.

812
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:06,760
Speaker 1: So how do you just let's assume your your vision

813
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:09,319
Speaker 1: this you just call up the promoter out of the

814
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 1: blue and say, hey, you know, I want to work there? Um,

815
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:19,319
Speaker 1: sort of sort of and you know once you know,

816
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,920
Speaker 1: like like with any any agent, you know, because of

817
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:27,720
Speaker 1: the consolidation in the music business, when when any act

818
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 1: that's in demand the minute the minute the agent calls

819
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 1: Don Strasburg, all of a sudden, the A G Guy

820
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 1: in the Midwest, the A G Guy in New York,

821
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 1: the A G guys in Texas, they know something's going

822
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 1: on and there's a band. This band is available no

823
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:50,280
Speaker 1: matter you know. And that's not only for social distortion.

824
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 1: I would think every agent you know gets incomings after

825
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 1: they make their first call on a band that the

826
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:01,600
Speaker 1: marketplace likes to show love to. Okay, So let's assume

827
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: you've got a promoter, you've got a building. How do

828
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:08,759
Speaker 1: you make a deal. Yes, for the expenses you ask

829
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:10,720
Speaker 1: for the building. I know what ticket price I wanted

830
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 1: to Okay, Um, you know it's it's probably no different

831
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 1: than for other agents. You you look at you look

832
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 1: at the promoter's expenses. Do they give those to you

833
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 1: or you just oh, yeah, you have to have that.

834
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 1: They they give you a list of the expenses that

835
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:35,720
Speaker 1: that are the expenses for running the show. Okay, Um,

836
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:40,240
Speaker 1: in some cases those are real expenses. In some cases

837
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 1: those aren't. That you know, that's that's the nature of

838
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:47,440
Speaker 1: what goes on. And like I think promoters and agents

839
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 1: have to take it all with a grain of salt

840
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:52,720
Speaker 1: and understand we all need to work with each other

841
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:58,240
Speaker 1: to sustain our business. Um. It was a lot easier

842
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 1: before the consolidation. Um. But I find you can have

843
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:06,800
Speaker 1: honest conversations, you know. I think depending on the act,

844
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 1: you can have very honest conversations with them. You know.

845
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 1: It's in a case like you know, you know some bands,

846
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,400
Speaker 1: if you're playing for the promoter and the promoter is

847
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 1: also the innkeeper, the person who's who's selling the audience,

848
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 1: the beers, the builder who Yeah, exactly if the promoter

849
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 1: is if you're selling to the promoter who owns the building,

850
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 1: then I'll see all their expenses for running the show.

851
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:43,240
Speaker 1: But the deal could very well be based on numbers

852
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 1: that no longer work because you know, I know how

853
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 1: much ahead you're gonna do at the bar at this show,

854
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 1: So that factors in, you know, or at least as

855
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 1: an agent representing an action factor that you know how

856
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:06,239
Speaker 1: much they're gonna do with the bar. Um, you don't

857
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:08,440
Speaker 1: really you know, you just know when it's gonna be

858
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:13,040
Speaker 1: the exact numbers. You don't know. Okay, So you say, okay,

859
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 1: we're gonna make a deal. They give you the expenses,

860
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 1: Then what's the and you go through and you will

861
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:22,400
Speaker 1: how do you then get to the price? Um? They

862
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 1: ultimately make an offer. So they make an offer, you're

863
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 1: waiting for them to make it. They'll in in some

864
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:31,320
Speaker 1: cases they'll make an offer. In some cases they'll ask

865
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 1: how much do you want? And like, you know, if

866
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 1: I want ten dollars, I'll tell them I want twelve

867
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 1: dollars and see what they come back with. But ultimately,

868
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 1: I mean for me and the way the way I

869
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 1: do business and and the way I've always done it

870
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 1: with with most of my clients and and with social distortion,

871
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:56,760
Speaker 1: is I want to make my band top dollar. Um.

872
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 1: I want to make sure that the gig is good

873
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:00,760
Speaker 1: I want to make sure that that I'm putting them

874
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:02,480
Speaker 1: in a place where the audience is going to have

875
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 1: a great time. And but I also even if if

876
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 1: the promoter ends up paying whatever they're paying, I want

877
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 1: them to feel good about it. You know. It's it's

878
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 1: a luxury with a band like this that does so

879
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 1: well consistently for so many years that they get paid

880
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 1: and the promoters comfortable paying them that, and they always

881
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 1: come back they want more. So, Uh, how do you

882
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 1: decide on ticket fees like the Ticketmaster convenience charges, etcetera.

883
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:44,560
Speaker 1: You look at them and you ask for them, and

884
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 1: and I think some companies in including Ticketmaster, you know

885
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 1: you can. You can talk to them and and they'll

886
00:58:54,880 --> 00:59:00,080
Speaker 1: show you flexibility. They will show some flexibility. Um, if

887
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,120
Speaker 1: you take the time to talk about it, give them

888
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:07,440
Speaker 1: your reasons why, give them their reasons why they should Um,

889
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 1: I've been pretty successful with that. Well, let's just assume

890
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 1: you're you're gonna make a deal. They've offered a price.

891
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 1: Ticket sales are gonna be forty dollars and is then

892
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:21,360
Speaker 1: what might you say relative to the fees? Um. I've

893
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 1: had situations where you know, at thirty five dollar tickets

894
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:30,800
Speaker 1: they've come back to me with in this city it's

895
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 1: ten fifty I go on a thirty five dollar ticket, right,

896
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 1: But I've but I've also when I've looked at an

897
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 1: overall tour and look in some cases, you know, because

898
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 1: of consolidation, the odds are if you're out there playing

899
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 1: major markets, half of your dates are really playing for

900
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 1: the same company that just so happens to own the

901
00:59:53,600 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 1: ticketing company. Right. Um And you have to make them

902
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:05,320
Speaker 1: feel that that we're all in this together, we're partners.

903
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:08,800
Speaker 1: I want you to make money on your show. You know,

904
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 1: I appreciate the service of being able to buy a

905
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 1: ticket online that you deserve to be paid for it.

906
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 1: I also know that I've cut a deal with your

907
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 1: local promoter who's very happy. Um. But if part of

908
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 1: his happiness is like he's gouging the audience member for

909
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 1: a little extra buck, I go, I don't you know

910
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 1: some artists will get that and go, I want you

911
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 1: to pay the band that extra buck out of the

912
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 1: out of it. What I'll do is say, I want

913
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 1: you to make that buck go away and not charge

914
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 1: my audience for it. Um. And And you know what

915
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 1: you do enough ongoing business with people and you get

916
01:00:53,720 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 1: relationships going and you're a straight shooter. You you know

917
01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 1: you're a straight shooter. Um. They get to know you

918
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:06,440
Speaker 1: and like you. I try to be liked. Some people

919
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 1: don't like me, but most do. Um. And you know

920
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 1: from that, from that end you can find a comfort zone.

921
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:17,640
Speaker 1: Let's be clear, to make a deal with the promoter,

922
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 1: the promoter does not decide the fee. Well, the promoter

923
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:24,919
Speaker 1: that the promoters, you know, if it's Ticketmaster, if it's

924
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:29,520
Speaker 1: Live Nation Dates, you know, they know there. They have

925
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:32,800
Speaker 1: a grid. They know on a thirty five dollar ticket,

926
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:37,600
Speaker 1: the convenience charges this, um boy. They used to have

927
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:42,880
Speaker 1: order charges that went away um on a and anywhere

928
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:47,720
Speaker 1: between thirty five and thirty nine fifty. It's this. The

929
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 1: minute you go over thirty nine fifty, it goes up

930
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 1: by this amount, etcetera, etcetera. I you know, I don't

931
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 1: know the exact numbers right now. I'm not prepared to

932
01:01:55,600 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 1: answer that question, you know, but you can can still

933
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 1: talk to them and say I'm not comfortable with that. Okay. Now,

934
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 1: in the old days, it was always a guarantee against commission.

935
01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:15,720
Speaker 1: Now most of the fees are up front. So how

936
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 1: do you structure the deal. You just basically say, well,

937
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna get X number of dollars? Is there?

938
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 1: Do they You ever go into percentages, percentage not putting

939
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 1: you do you? You sometimes will work on bonuses outside

940
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 1: the deal. Um. And you know it depends on the act.

941
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:37,400
Speaker 1: You know. Um. You know, for the most part, if

942
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:39,400
Speaker 1: you know the date's going to sell out, the promoter

943
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:41,800
Speaker 1: knows that date's going to sell out, whether the guarantee

944
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:44,040
Speaker 1: is sell out money or not, you want to make

945
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:49,200
Speaker 1: the deal versus a percentage of the net if if

946
01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 1: you think that date it's going to sell out, and

947
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 1: it's an act you're developing, right, I'm okay to do

948
01:02:56,160 --> 01:03:01,440
Speaker 1: a promoter profit deal with with with a promoter because hey,

949
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 1: I want to show that promoter light at the end

950
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:05,040
Speaker 1: of the tunnel. I want him to see he can

951
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 1: make money with my client. Um, because I want to

952
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:12,160
Speaker 1: ensure that he puts the energy into the show that

953
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 1: gets my client there. Ultimately, if it's a new young

954
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 1: band and we're building it or it's a band on

955
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:23,040
Speaker 1: its way, you know, sometimes I'll show the promoter some

956
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:25,480
Speaker 1: light at the end of the tunnel. When you say

957
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:29,720
Speaker 1: a promoter profit deal. Okay, so you have you know,

958
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:32,440
Speaker 1: you know what the expense the show's costs are, the

959
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 1: show's costs. Um. You add the show's costs to the promoter,

960
01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:41,240
Speaker 1: you know, advertising, rent, what have have you. You add

961
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:45,440
Speaker 1: the band's guaranteed to it. Add those all up, you

962
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:48,480
Speaker 1: come to a number, all right, and that number is

963
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 1: usually under well well under what the gross is when

964
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 1: the show sells out. So you look at that number,

965
01:03:56,680 --> 01:04:02,479
Speaker 1: you establish what of everything he just invested is right?

966
01:04:03,160 --> 01:04:06,720
Speaker 1: As soon as that number is is in the bank

967
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 1: at the box office, he gets up to what would

968
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:18,040
Speaker 1: be every dollar that comes in the box office. Once

969
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 1: he's achieved that percentage, then the rest is split, whether

970
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:30,560
Speaker 1: seventy thirty eight, then it's always split in the artist's favor.

971
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 1: Let's just speak here. Let's just say costs or thirty grand.

972
01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:38,600
Speaker 1: So on the first thirty grand he gets how much

973
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:45,760
Speaker 1: of course to thirty grand, Um, you of that, okay,

974
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 1: but fifteen percent would not cover his costs. Now, his

975
01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:53,280
Speaker 1: costs are covered if that If that thirty grand, which

976
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:56,880
Speaker 1: is saying maybe fifteen Let's say that thirty grand reflects

977
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 1: in costs to run the show and five thousand dollar

978
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 1: guarantee for the band. There's the thirty grand. Okay, he

979
01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:13,840
Speaker 1: starts collecting money the minute thirty thousand and one dollar

980
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:18,560
Speaker 1: comes into the box office and he gets gets it

981
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:24,560
Speaker 1: up to whatever would be just a little bit sore.

982
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:28,720
Speaker 1: I'm the first going to do math first, the first

983
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:32,880
Speaker 1: thirty thousand, does he get all of that money back? Well?

984
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:36,040
Speaker 1: That well, he uses that money to pay the band,

985
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 1: and he uses that money to pay off the costs

986
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:40,440
Speaker 1: of having run the show. That's not money in his

987
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:44,640
Speaker 1: pocket yet. That's why to show him that he can

988
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 1: make some money, he gets that promoter profit, he gets

989
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:52,480
Speaker 1: fifteen after he hits thirty correct, he gets fifteen cent

990
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:56,160
Speaker 1: of what of of his investment of thirty thousand? Is?

991
01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:01,640
Speaker 1: I see? And then the split goes beyond that. Then

992
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:05,600
Speaker 1: the split goes beyond that, and hopefully he's making more

993
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:08,320
Speaker 1: money in the band's making more money. Obviously, if you

994
01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:12,360
Speaker 1: know it's a slam dunk sellout change, then then you

995
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:15,440
Speaker 1: calculate different and you cut a different kind of deal.

996
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 1: So normally an agent charges ten. We hear about all

997
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 1: these acts who pay less. What's going on with that?

998
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:29,439
Speaker 1: That started? Like you know years ago? It's so competitive?

999
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:38,280
Speaker 1: Um I charged ten Um, I've lost bands because of that. Um,

1000
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:40,560
Speaker 1: so if I'm doing but I was naive, No, I was.

1001
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:44,080
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not gonna say band names, you know.

1002
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:52,040
Speaker 1: But the band that wanted the deal, I said, you

1003
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:55,760
Speaker 1: you know at the time, they were threatening to go

1004
01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:58,439
Speaker 1: take meetings with other agents, and I just said, look,

1005
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 1: you decide you're going to stay with me, I'll go

1006
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:02,080
Speaker 1: talk to my boss and see if we can do

1007
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:04,600
Speaker 1: a commission deal. But you decide you want to stay

1008
01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:07,640
Speaker 1: with me because I've done a good job. Um, that

1009
01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:11,040
Speaker 1: band went away and there they have an agent that

1010
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:14,640
Speaker 1: charges less. That's all. Now, I think it's really about

1011
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:21,920
Speaker 1: you know, it's certainly big bands. You know. It's like, listen,

1012
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:23,920
Speaker 1: you're as big as the Rolling Stones. You don't need

1013
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:28,280
Speaker 1: an agent. You know, you're an act that consistently plays arena.

1014
01:07:29,240 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 1: There's plenty of money to go around and plenty of

1015
01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 1: agents that are going to do it for less than

1016
01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:39,520
Speaker 1: ten percent. Um. Yeah, if I get a call by

1017
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:43,080
Speaker 1: a big arena band that I'm google over and I love,

1018
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:46,640
Speaker 1: and you know, I know where they're gonna play, I

1019
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:48,520
Speaker 1: know what size venues I'm going to book them in,

1020
01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:52,720
Speaker 1: and they're only willing to pay you know, five or

1021
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:55,160
Speaker 1: less than that or what have you. I'm not going

1022
01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:59,240
Speaker 1: to say no, that's the real world, that's how it all,

1023
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:02,360
Speaker 1: that's how it works right now, you know, And does

1024
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:04,560
Speaker 1: an agent that can does an agent does an act

1025
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:11,000
Speaker 1: that consistently solve arenas? Do they need an agent? Everybody

1026
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:17,360
Speaker 1: needs an agent? Convince me why protecting my profession? You

1027
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:23,240
Speaker 1: know what, The Rolling Stones don't need an agent. Um.

1028
01:08:23,479 --> 01:08:27,439
Speaker 1: They have people that do the bits and pieces, people

1029
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:29,599
Speaker 1: who do what an agent, what an agent would do,

1030
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:32,720
Speaker 1: and and they've chosen to do it that way. I mean,

1031
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:34,720
Speaker 1: how hard is it to book the Rolling Stones? You

1032
01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 1: deal with one promoter. They've been a one promoter band

1033
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:43,800
Speaker 1: for forty years. So if anybody is like making an

1034
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:47,400
Speaker 1: overall deal with Live Nation reg and they're selling Marina's,

1035
01:08:47,439 --> 01:08:49,600
Speaker 1: do they need an agent? Well? I think that was

1036
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:54,880
Speaker 1: when the consolidation started, the SFX days, etcetera. I think

1037
01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:58,040
Speaker 1: a lot of agents really felt that this was a threat,

1038
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:03,720
Speaker 1: that that the promoter, the national promoter, can provide an

1039
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:10,439
Speaker 1: entire tour and they're gonna go to bands direct um.

1040
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:14,759
Speaker 1: And well, in some cases they do go to bands

1041
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:19,639
Speaker 1: direct um. People at very at whether it's at Live

1042
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:23,280
Speaker 1: nation a e g. Or what have? You have relationships

1043
01:09:23,320 --> 01:09:28,840
Speaker 1: with managers, have relationships with agents, etcetera. And you know,

1044
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:31,760
Speaker 1: I think the agents just need to not be paranoid.

1045
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:34,840
Speaker 1: Promoters are gonna have relationships with the managers. You know,

1046
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:37,320
Speaker 1: you don't get Oh, you're not allowed to call my manager.

1047
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:41,120
Speaker 1: It has to go through me. Um. Those days are

1048
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:46,040
Speaker 1: long gone. UM. And you know any agent that gets

1049
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:50,280
Speaker 1: too paranoid about that, they're just too paranoid. And what

1050
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:56,679
Speaker 1: about poaching, Um, it's part of it's part of the business.

1051
01:09:56,800 --> 01:10:00,679
Speaker 1: Some some actively do it or act if lee taught

1052
01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:04,839
Speaker 1: to do it. You know what, it's not against the rules,

1053
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:06,880
Speaker 1: so you don't get kicked out of the league for

1054
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:09,760
Speaker 1: doing it, or you don't get suspended for like a

1055
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:14,200
Speaker 1: few months. Um. I think some you know a lot

1056
01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:18,680
Speaker 1: do and then there are some that don't. Have you

1057
01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:26,559
Speaker 1: ever a poached an act? No? Um. Have I gotten

1058
01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:31,200
Speaker 1: calls from acts that are with other agents saying, hey,

1059
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:34,040
Speaker 1: we're looking to make a change, we're not happy, etcetera.

1060
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:38,280
Speaker 1: The first thing I ask is, tell me why you're unhappy.

1061
01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:42,400
Speaker 1: Let me see the job that this guy did. Um,

1062
01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:47,160
Speaker 1: And I'll look at it. Um. In some cases, I'll

1063
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:50,920
Speaker 1: say I don't know why you're changing agents. This guy

1064
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:55,719
Speaker 1: did a good job. Um, but you know what, I'll

1065
01:10:55,760 --> 01:10:59,000
Speaker 1: also know, Hey, he's convinced he's going to change anyway.

1066
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:02,320
Speaker 1: So if he's offering it to me instead of offering

1067
01:11:02,400 --> 01:11:04,880
Speaker 1: it to the guy down the street, you know, I'll

1068
01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:08,519
Speaker 1: take it on if it's something I want. But I

1069
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:15,160
Speaker 1: don't actively you know, any relationship I maintain with a

1070
01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:21,000
Speaker 1: manager that of bands I don't represent, it's not for

1071
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:24,240
Speaker 1: the purpose of like getting so close that I can

1072
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:27,000
Speaker 1: like start making him love me so much that he'll

1073
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:30,400
Speaker 1: pull an act from another agent. You never have people

1074
01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:32,040
Speaker 1: try to poach your acts right in front of you.

1075
01:11:33,280 --> 01:11:37,960
Speaker 1: M Hm. You know what. Look, you know what most

1076
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:41,920
Speaker 1: of the acts I represent, if they're making me money. Now,

1077
01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:45,200
Speaker 1: I made calls to get them door deals and get

1078
01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:49,920
Speaker 1: them five hundred dollars a night. Yeah, you know. I

1079
01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:53,120
Speaker 1: booked door deals on social d I booked five hundred

1080
01:11:53,120 --> 01:12:00,280
Speaker 1: dollar megadeath dates. I booked five hundred dollar Green Day dates. Um.

1081
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:02,400
Speaker 1: You know, it's just the nature of the bands grow

1082
01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:08,000
Speaker 1: on trees, do they really? There's just so many, you know,

1083
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:10,360
Speaker 1: I think, you know what. I tend to say that

1084
01:12:11,080 --> 01:12:15,479
Speaker 1: when when I see some of our younger agents lose

1085
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:18,880
Speaker 1: acts and their heartbroken, you know, and and it's heartbreaking.

1086
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:22,479
Speaker 1: You know. You get relationships, you have clients you love

1087
01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:25,920
Speaker 1: working for, your passionate about the music, you're excited about.

1088
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:29,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to be successful doing this. This was my dream.

1089
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:35,439
Speaker 1: And a client fires you nine out of ten times

1090
01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:38,719
Speaker 1: it's because they wrote bad songs and people aren't coming.

1091
01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:43,799
Speaker 1: But they gotta make a change. I gotta fix something,

1092
01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:47,720
Speaker 1: you know. And sometimes it's the agent. And I used

1093
01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:52,599
Speaker 1: to say that to to younger agents. Um, they get

1094
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:56,160
Speaker 1: fired by a band, I go, so you're gonna give up?

1095
01:12:56,240 --> 01:12:59,960
Speaker 1: Or go get a new band? They grow on trees. Okay,

1096
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:02,559
Speaker 1: let's assume you're one of these bands growing on trees.

1097
01:13:03,479 --> 01:13:11,599
Speaker 1: How do you get an agent? I think an agent

1098
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:14,880
Speaker 1: kind will ultimately discover it. Right now, there's so many.

1099
01:13:14,920 --> 01:13:17,640
Speaker 1: I mean, our young agents are on YouTube, are on

1100
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:25,880
Speaker 1: Spotify all day, discovering, discovering on Spotify, they get to

1101
01:13:25,920 --> 01:13:33,120
Speaker 1: see the analytics, etcetera. Um, and if their musically taken,

1102
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:36,160
Speaker 1: whether they're noticing it because the analytics are great, or

1103
01:13:36,160 --> 01:13:38,720
Speaker 1: they're noticing it because well, this music is exciting me

1104
01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:42,400
Speaker 1: and I really dig it. Um it's from that point

1105
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:46,080
Speaker 1: where they'll go and approach and reach out to the band,

1106
01:13:46,439 --> 01:13:48,920
Speaker 1: and the young guys will sometimes ask, you know, for

1107
01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:51,120
Speaker 1: the senior guys in the office, can you be helpful,

1108
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:54,800
Speaker 1: can you help us take a meeting? UM? And that's

1109
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:57,960
Speaker 1: where you find bands UM. At least that's the way

1110
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:00,400
Speaker 1: I'm seeing it happen. And I see our young guys

1111
01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:05,200
Speaker 1: are fortifying relationships with like the new people that are

1112
01:14:05,200 --> 01:14:10,880
Speaker 1: the powers that be UM, you know, because it's it's

1113
01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:14,840
Speaker 1: changed since I was I was the young agent going

1114
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:18,120
Speaker 1: after bands, and you know, i'd go over to the

1115
01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:21,160
Speaker 1: major labels and schmooze the A and R guys and

1116
01:14:21,240 --> 01:14:23,360
Speaker 1: talk to them and get to know as many of

1117
01:14:23,479 --> 01:14:26,920
Speaker 1: the the marketing people and product managers as I could

1118
01:14:27,400 --> 01:14:29,439
Speaker 1: so that when they're A and R guys signed a

1119
01:14:29,439 --> 01:14:32,200
Speaker 1: new band, I'm on their radar as for a call

1120
01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:35,800
Speaker 1: UM and I would do that. I don't think I

1121
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:39,800
Speaker 1: was ever very very good at at that. I just

1122
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:42,400
Speaker 1: knew that ultimately if I took on a band, I

1123
01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:45,320
Speaker 1: could be good for them. But I also know that

1124
01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:47,360
Speaker 1: there were bands that like I would never shot at

1125
01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:52,720
Speaker 1: getting UM. And you know what, because I think at

1126
01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:55,840
Speaker 1: the schmooze and at the working it. I think there's

1127
01:14:55,840 --> 01:14:57,640
Speaker 1: a lot of agents that do that better than me.

1128
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:01,439
Speaker 1: And so what is it that you do better than

1129
01:15:01,439 --> 01:15:06,920
Speaker 1: they do the actual job of agent? Ng Um, I'm

1130
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:10,280
Speaker 1: not saying I'm yeah, I know I do it good, UM,

1131
01:15:10,320 --> 01:15:12,160
Speaker 1: and I think there's a lot of people out there

1132
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:17,200
Speaker 1: that do it good. UM. I think I'm very attentive.

1133
01:15:17,240 --> 01:15:21,599
Speaker 1: And that's just because when you're it comes from when

1134
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:26,519
Speaker 1: you're competing with real people in the real music business

1135
01:15:27,640 --> 01:15:31,080
Speaker 1: and you're sitting in your apartment booking circle Jerk's Megadeath

1136
01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:36,200
Speaker 1: and GBH. I've got nothing other than to make sure

1137
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:42,800
Speaker 1: that I'm doing a better job than anybody could possibly do. Um.

1138
01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:45,640
Speaker 1: You know there are agents with you Jack's at the

1139
01:15:45,720 --> 01:15:50,640
Speaker 1: big fancy companies, you know, that actually can do a

1140
01:15:50,760 --> 01:15:53,800
Speaker 1: just okay job and get away with it. You know.

1141
01:15:54,960 --> 01:16:02,080
Speaker 1: But I've always kind of been either an underdog or

1142
01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:04,680
Speaker 1: with companies that were underdogs. Not that I CM or

1143
01:16:04,720 --> 01:16:10,320
Speaker 1: Triad were underdogs UM or anywhere I've worked, but you know,

1144
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:14,840
Speaker 1: I've just always felt that, like you know, like I said,

1145
01:16:16,040 --> 01:16:18,439
Speaker 1: I never worked at W M E or c A A.

1146
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:21,960
Speaker 1: You know, those are great agencies. There's you know, you

1147
01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:25,880
Speaker 1: can't deny success. When something is successful, you can't look

1148
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:28,840
Speaker 1: at those rosters and not say there's a hell of

1149
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:33,120
Speaker 1: a lot of great artists and great music over there. Um.

1150
01:16:33,160 --> 01:16:37,240
Speaker 1: But I also think it's it's large. It's just very big,

1151
01:16:37,280 --> 01:16:41,120
Speaker 1: way too big, you know for me, um and I

1152
01:16:41,120 --> 01:16:45,960
Speaker 1: think the larger a company. Look, every agency has great agents,

1153
01:16:46,280 --> 01:16:51,200
Speaker 1: has okay agents, etcetera, etcetera. You know. Fortunately for me,

1154
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:53,639
Speaker 1: I thought when we were when we had the Agency Group,

1155
01:16:54,120 --> 01:16:57,160
Speaker 1: which was a smaller company in its own way compared

1156
01:16:57,200 --> 01:17:00,320
Speaker 1: to those we didn't have full service, we didn't have film,

1157
01:17:00,400 --> 01:17:06,719
Speaker 1: television or anything, that was the greatest group of agents

1158
01:17:06,760 --> 01:17:10,280
Speaker 1: that were passionate about music, all under one roof, even

1159
01:17:10,320 --> 01:17:16,800
Speaker 1: though under three roofs, four roofs um where the quality

1160
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:21,479
Speaker 1: of work was just excellent, it was just it was

1161
01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:25,040
Speaker 1: just that's what it was. There were the percentage of

1162
01:17:25,080 --> 01:17:28,240
Speaker 1: people doing not a great job was way lower there

1163
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:32,880
Speaker 1: than anywhere else I've ever been. On that note, I

1164
01:17:32,880 --> 01:17:37,200
Speaker 1: think we've covered it. We've covered Andy's history Agent in Today,

1165
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:39,840
Speaker 1: and of course there are million more questions, but we

1166
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:43,439
Speaker 1: can't go on forever. Andie Summer's thanks so much for

1167
01:17:43,479 --> 01:17:45,640
Speaker 1: coming on the podcast. It was a pleasure being. If

1168
01:17:45,720 --> 01:17:49,679
Speaker 1: we talk about skiing next time, absolutely, you know I would.

1169
01:17:50,200 --> 01:17:55,240
Speaker 1: I prefer to talk about skiing, so okay, talking about skiing.

1170
01:17:55,760 --> 01:17:58,120
Speaker 1: You ever feel there come a day that you won't

1171
01:17:58,160 --> 01:18:01,160
Speaker 1: be able to do it? I know, we want to

1172
01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:04,320
Speaker 1: think about that. I was skiing with the guy with

1173
01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:07,960
Speaker 1: a whistler who's seventy seven, who could ski the bumps

1174
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:10,200
Speaker 1: faster than I could. In terms of not having to stop.

1175
01:18:10,240 --> 01:18:13,120
Speaker 1: It was just unbelievable. Okay, we'll talk the rest of

1176
01:18:13,160 --> 01:18:16,240
Speaker 1: this off. We will. Let's see you on the chair lift. Okay,

1177
01:18:16,280 --> 01:18:19,320
Speaker 1: thank you. Thanks, that's time. It's been The Bob Left

1178
01:18:19,320 --> 01:18:20,200
Speaker 1: Sets Podcast