WEBVTT - Cyborgs, Ethics and You

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<v Speaker 1>Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to

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<v Speaker 1>Forward Thinking. Welcome everyone to Forward Thinking. My name is

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<v Speaker 1>Jonathan Strickland, and I am joined by my wonderful co

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<v Speaker 1>hosts who are Lauren and Joe McCormick. And today we

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to talk a bit about robotic pros theses and

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<v Speaker 1>and sort of this idea of, uh, well, when we

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<v Speaker 1>get to a really advanced state with prostheses, to the

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<v Speaker 1>point where where a robotic arm is demonstrably better than

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<v Speaker 1>a human arm, what happens then? But before we get there,

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<v Speaker 1>I want to talk a little bit about some fairly

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<v Speaker 1>recent news. Back in two thousand and eleven, a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of different patients in Europe actually volunteered to have limbs

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<v Speaker 1>amputated and replaced with a robotic pros thesis. And now

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<v Speaker 1>these these weren't healthy limbs. They were injured in some

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<v Speaker 1>critical way. Yes. In fact, one one of these gentlemen,

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<v Speaker 1>his arm was injured in a accident where he received

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<v Speaker 1>an incredible electric shock about say electric cution, but that

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<v Speaker 1>actually means that you died. But he suffered an incredible

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<v Speaker 1>electric shock which rendered one of his arms essentially useless.

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<v Speaker 1>The other was in a terrible motorcycle accident and had

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<v Speaker 1>suffered severe injury to his arm. Now this was a

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<v Speaker 1>controversial matter that these these guys had decided to go

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<v Speaker 1>and have uh elective amputation because the arm was still there.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it wasn't it was it was healthy. It

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't healthy, yes, exactly, it just wasn't functional. Right. There

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<v Speaker 1>was no way to for them to regain the functionality

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<v Speaker 1>without perhaps having a series of incredibly complex surgeries performed

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<v Speaker 1>on them, and even then there was no guarantee that

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<v Speaker 1>they would receive anything like even resembling full mobility of

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<v Speaker 1>their their limb. So they in in the eyes of

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<v Speaker 1>the patient, the choices. Do I undergo this series of

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<v Speaker 1>surgeries that has no guarantee of real success and it

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<v Speaker 1>may be that what I end up with is not

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<v Speaker 1>a lot better than what I have right now? Or

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<v Speaker 1>do I elect to have this limb amputated and replaced

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<v Speaker 1>with the robotic pros thesis, which has a demonstrable proof

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<v Speaker 1>that it can work and at least give me some

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<v Speaker 1>mobility back. Either way, I'm going to have to go

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<v Speaker 1>through an intense rehabilitative process to be able to to learn.

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<v Speaker 1>But with the robotic one. There's more of a guarantee

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<v Speaker 1>that I'm going to have some results, right, And doctors

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<v Speaker 1>were saying, you know, are are you sure because this

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<v Speaker 1>is very permanent. Yes, there's no there's no going back,

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<v Speaker 1>right and uh. And in fact, in a woman by

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<v Speaker 1>the name Nicola Wilding suffered a terrible injury to one

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<v Speaker 1>of her arms in a car accident, and she now

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<v Speaker 1>is also looking at the possibility of having her arm

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<v Speaker 1>and tated and replaced with a robotic Pross thesis. In fact,

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<v Speaker 1>she has a Twitter account where she talks about being

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<v Speaker 1>a potential bionic woman. Um, which is kind of interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>But this is already a controversy in the medical community.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a lot of debate about is it ethical to

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<v Speaker 1>allow someone to have an elective amputation if there's a chance,

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<v Speaker 1>even if it's only a small one, that they could

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<v Speaker 1>regain some use out of an injured limb through through

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<v Speaker 1>future technology, you know, well through through through traditional surgeries, right,

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<v Speaker 1>or even if even if current surgery. I mean, I

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<v Speaker 1>think with with the with the Nicola, the issue is that,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, doctors don't think that any time in her

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<v Speaker 1>lifetime we're going to advance our understanding of how nerves

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<v Speaker 1>work and reconnect in order to be able to help her. Right, So,

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<v Speaker 1>if if she's if she's in a position where there

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<v Speaker 1>is very little confidence on the part of doctors that

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<v Speaker 1>they're going to advance medicine to the point where they

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<v Speaker 1>can actually help her to a great extent, then is

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<v Speaker 1>it wrong for her to go and seek out an amputation?

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<v Speaker 1>And it's kind of interesting because it brings up this

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<v Speaker 1>question of what is so special about our our our

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<v Speaker 1>natural limbs that makes it an ethical question. I have

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<v Speaker 1>to admit it's scary to me. Sure, I I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>obviously I haven't been in this position, but I'm just

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<v Speaker 1>trying to imagine it. Imagine that I've had a serious

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<v Speaker 1>injury to one of my arms that basically is not useful. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>it can't do anything and seems unlikely that I could

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<v Speaker 1>train it. Now, on one side of the coin, I

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<v Speaker 1>can see how it would be h advantageous to get

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<v Speaker 1>a a very functional prosthetic arm that could do more

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<v Speaker 1>than my natural arm could. But it just seems so

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<v Speaker 1>hard to say goodbye to this flesh that's attached to

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<v Speaker 1>my body. Which is weird because what am I I know?

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<v Speaker 1>That's a crazy question. You're a writer for forward thinking,

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<v Speaker 1>But what am I? When I think of myself? I

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<v Speaker 1>think of my arm as part of me. But is

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<v Speaker 1>it really any more part of me than the fingernails

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<v Speaker 1>that I clip off once a week. I mean, it's

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<v Speaker 1>proteins that have been made by my d n A.

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<v Speaker 1>But is it really who I am? Do I have

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<v Speaker 1>some kind of loyalty to this particular clump of flesh?

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<v Speaker 1>And wouldn't wouldn't a prosthetic if it was truly working

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<v Speaker 1>with you and for you, wouldn't that be equally part

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<v Speaker 1>of you? Yeah? Wouldn't. Would the robotic prosthetic end up

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<v Speaker 1>not just replacing the utility of your arm, but actually

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<v Speaker 1>that identity in that prosthesis? Sorry, thank you Lauren, thank

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<v Speaker 1>you prosthesis. Well, I'm just saying that despite all that's

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<v Speaker 1>rational to me, I mean, it makes sense that I

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<v Speaker 1>could probably do more with the prosthesis, but I something internally,

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<v Speaker 1>emotionally kind of recoils at that. I Uh, not that

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<v Speaker 1>I think it would be wrong for a person to

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<v Speaker 1>do at all, It just seems so scary. I have

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<v Speaker 1>a centuries old riddle for you, then, Joe, you have

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<v Speaker 1>a ship and over time parts of the ship need

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<v Speaker 1>to be replaced, and you replace the parts of the

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<v Speaker 1>ship as time goes on. Uh, let's say you name

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<v Speaker 1>the ship the heidy Ho. Would there ever come a

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<v Speaker 1>time after you've been replacing this piece by piece, never

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<v Speaker 1>huge pieces, just little pieces. Would there ever come a

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<v Speaker 1>time where you would no longer call it the heidy

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<v Speaker 1>Hoe because you realize that every single piece on that ship,

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<v Speaker 1>at some point or another, had been replaced. There's no

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<v Speaker 1>original part of the ship left. Or does that new

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<v Speaker 1>ship that's in that same shape. You know, you haven't

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<v Speaker 1>changed the design of the ship at all, You've just

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<v Speaker 1>changed the individual pieces out is the spirit? Is the

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<v Speaker 1>soul is still hidy Ho? Right? Well, that points out

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<v Speaker 1>that our idea of identity has something more to do

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<v Speaker 1>than just the material constituents, because our bodies do the

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<v Speaker 1>same thing, right like you, technically once every seven years,

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<v Speaker 1>completely reinvent ourselves. Right is that the some of us?

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<v Speaker 1>Lady Gaga does it on like a weekly basis. So

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<v Speaker 1>I've heard that seven years. I don't know if it's true,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's but it's definitely true that you know, our

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<v Speaker 1>body is in constant flux of the cells are being

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<v Speaker 1>replaced you're not made of the exact same stuff you

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<v Speaker 1>were ten years ago, right, But I understand entirely that

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<v Speaker 1>there is I mean, there is something about the idea

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<v Speaker 1>of of saying goodbye to part of yourself, even if

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<v Speaker 1>you're getting something new that would give you new, uh

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<v Speaker 1>higher quality of life. For example. So the question is,

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<v Speaker 1>is the arm really more a part of yourself than

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<v Speaker 1>the fingernails? Yeah? And I think, I mean, I think

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<v Speaker 1>most of us would say yes. I mean, like yes,

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<v Speaker 1>that is. I can't tell you why, but it is. Uh. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>the question I have is that right now, pros theses

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<v Speaker 1>are all about the medical world and giving people more

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<v Speaker 1>uh mobility, giving them more self reliance, giving them a

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<v Speaker 1>higher quality of life. And all of that is so

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<v Speaker 1>that you can replace something that's either been lost or

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<v Speaker 1>damage beyond repairs catching up. You're trying to get back

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<v Speaker 1>to normal. But let's say that you get to a

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<v Speaker 1>point where the robotic pros theses are demonstrably better than

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<v Speaker 1>a human limb. So you you've created a robotic arm,

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<v Speaker 1>for example, So instead of catching up, you're pulling ahead

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<v Speaker 1>ahead your head. Yes, the technology has has progressed to

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<v Speaker 1>a point where the robotic arm has more capability than

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<v Speaker 1>a human arm, so maybe it has more points of articulation.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe you can rotate your wrist three sixty degrees, which

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<v Speaker 1>means you can just hold the light bulb and spin

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<v Speaker 1>your wrist around until it's screwed into place instead of

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<v Speaker 1>having to do that wonky you know, screw turn screw

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<v Speaker 1>turns or as we imagined in the in the video episode.

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<v Speaker 1>You know that maybe it even coordinates with other pross

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<v Speaker 1>theses in your body to be a more accurate athletic

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<v Speaker 1>uh tol. Yeah, sure, so you can shoot baskets better

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<v Speaker 1>than your normal arms as you get into sensory perception

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<v Speaker 1>of pross theses for those as well. I mean, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>when Whenever was watching Star Trek Next Generation growing up,

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<v Speaker 1>I always wondered. I always wondering about Jordie's visor because

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<v Speaker 1>because it allowed him to see most of the electromagnetic spectrum, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>much much further out than the visible spectrum that all

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<v Speaker 1>of us are from. At a certain point, I was like, well,

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't everyone want that? I can't want the ability to

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<v Speaker 1>suddenly see an infrared or ultraviolet or even radio waves.

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<v Speaker 1>Or he could look at gamma radiation, things like that

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<v Speaker 1>probably not so useful here on the surface of the Earth.

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<v Speaker 1>Magnetospheres will horrifying. You go to the doctor's office to

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<v Speaker 1>get an X ray and you can see the rays

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<v Speaker 1>coming at you. Well, I mean for you, that might

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<v Speaker 1>be horrifying. But again, this could be This could be

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<v Speaker 1>something that if we're talking about a prosthesis. If we're

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<v Speaker 1>talking about prosthesis, a prosthetic I have some sort then

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<v Speaker 1>presumably you would be able to engage different modes so

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<v Speaker 1>you wouldn't have to look at everything all the time.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean first of all, first of all, you would

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<v Speaker 1>have to train your brain how to process that information. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>we would have to have some way of being able

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<v Speaker 1>to bring that in. Now, if we did it the

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<v Speaker 1>way that infrared cameras and ultra violet detectors do, then

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<v Speaker 1>that would just mean that we would have some sort

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<v Speaker 1>of processor reinterpret that light into something that we could see,

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<v Speaker 1>so we wouldn't really be seeing outside the visible spectrum.

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<v Speaker 1>We would be pulling the information. Because how do you

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<v Speaker 1>teach the brain to do something like that? I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>that's a good question. Yeah, that that This is also

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<v Speaker 1>this is why we don't have journey s Wiser yet.

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<v Speaker 1>That do you, I mean, yeah, would you see multiple

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<v Speaker 1>things at once? Would you toggle? Would you have predator vision?

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<v Speaker 1>You would have predator vision, yes, and then you would

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<v Speaker 1>also it would also laugh just before exploding. But now

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<v Speaker 1>getting back into the whole idea about the superior arm,

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<v Speaker 1>you know something that something that has that ability. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>can you imagine a future where athletes or really anyone

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<v Speaker 1>volunteers to lose a perfectly healthy limb in order to

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<v Speaker 1>gain this superior technology and use that instead. So the

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<v Speaker 1>goal is really pulling ahead. There's yes, it's fully fully

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<v Speaker 1>functional hand that you go like, yeah, I could get

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<v Speaker 1>a better one. Let's switch it out. Yeah, Like like

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<v Speaker 1>to the point where the again, the robotic limb is

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<v Speaker 1>beyond all doubts, superior to the human limb. Can you

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<v Speaker 1>imagine that being a world where people go in for

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<v Speaker 1>an elective surgery to have a robotic one put in place. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I think we've acknowledged that that. I think all three

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<v Speaker 1>of us agree that. You know, it may be more

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<v Speaker 1>rational to prefer a superior prosthetic to whatever is attached

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<v Speaker 1>to you, but you have some kind of strange emotional

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<v Speaker 1>connection to the flesh that your DNA has generated. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>what would it take you to get there? Well, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I think there's a there's a basic mammalion. I am alive.

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<v Speaker 1>I need to preserve myself kind of kind of really intrinsic,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, drive there. But and that's why, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>reading about this research is wonderful and terrific, but it

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<v Speaker 1>also really swicks me out. I find myself extremely disturbed

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<v Speaker 1>reading about the interesting Okay, Joe, you know, let me

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<v Speaker 1>tell you this. If I could have a robot arm

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<v Speaker 1>right now that could allow me to fire NERF missiles

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<v Speaker 1>at the two of you, I would do it in

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<v Speaker 1>a heartbeat. Wow, really do you think about No? I

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<v Speaker 1>just want to ask you all about the actual your

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<v Speaker 1>your real trade off. What how good would the robotic

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<v Speaker 1>arm have to be or the bionic arm? We should say,

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<v Speaker 1>how good would it have to be? How many advantages

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<v Speaker 1>would it have to offer before you would actually say yes,

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<v Speaker 1>I will voluntarily lose the arm that belongs to me

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<v Speaker 1>and replace it. Does it have to be just a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit better or does it have to be a

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<v Speaker 1>lot better? I mean it would need to it would

0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:38.960
<v Speaker 1>It would be a lot better for me personally, because,

0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:40.240
<v Speaker 1>like like I said, I'm kind of squeaked by the

0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:43.360
<v Speaker 1>entire idea. Can you actually imagine it? Though? I can't absolutely,

0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:45.719
<v Speaker 1>and I can I can. I can imagine people who

0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:48.880
<v Speaker 1>are perhaps more competitive than I am, jumping on board

0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:52.800
<v Speaker 1>pretty early, I think early adopters. Yeah, you know, it's

0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:55.080
<v Speaker 1>it's mine mine would need to like make calls and

0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:57.280
<v Speaker 1>coffee for me and stuff like that, Like it would

0:12:57.320 --> 0:12:59.120
<v Speaker 1>need to wake up before I do, go crawl around

0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:00.680
<v Speaker 1>and do some stuff for me and come back and

0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:02.959
<v Speaker 1>reattach like that's that. That is the kind of level

0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:06.440
<v Speaker 1>of of you know, so you wouldn't go for say

0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:09.160
<v Speaker 1>what if your arm could be replaced with one that

0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:11.880
<v Speaker 1>they promise you that you will not be able to

0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:14.520
<v Speaker 1>tell the difference. It communicates directly with your brain, You

0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:18.160
<v Speaker 1>get good sensory feedback from it, You can control it

0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:21.040
<v Speaker 1>exactly the same, and you can't tell the difference except

0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:26.640
<v Speaker 1>it can't get skin infections. Say yeah, and until until

0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:29.880
<v Speaker 1>I started getting really really unpardonable rashes on my hands,

0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:31.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't think that I would turn over. I mean,

0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:32.880
<v Speaker 1>I I don't know. It's it's a good it's a

0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:36.400
<v Speaker 1>good question. Yeah, I think it would have to The

0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:38.840
<v Speaker 1>arm would need to have some significant advantages. The NERF

0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:42.840
<v Speaker 1>missile thing is a deal breaker for me. Oh, I

0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:45.480
<v Speaker 1>see what you're saying. Like it has the nerve the

0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:48.840
<v Speaker 1>missiles they strayed out of it, like the Mega Man

0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:51.600
<v Speaker 1>like like like like like like like there's a little

0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.679
<v Speaker 1>section in the forearm pops up and their nerve missiles

0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:57.800
<v Speaker 1>loaded in there. Just by the way, Nerve has nothing

0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:00.320
<v Speaker 1>to do with this podcast. Yeah, we're not sponsor. It's

0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.600
<v Speaker 1>just just I just really want that. Okay. So you're

0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:07.280
<v Speaker 1>saying I understand that you want to Mega Man arm, Yeah,

0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:11.920
<v Speaker 1>more or less. Okay, So I think I want a

0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:15.880
<v Speaker 1>combination of the NERF Missile arm and a Nintendo Power glove.

0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:19.040
<v Speaker 1>But it's just built into my arm. Okay, no, think

0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:20.960
<v Speaker 1>about it. Like, I like this idea of being able

0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:23.040
<v Speaker 1>to Now, granted, if we were able to bypass this

0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:25.440
<v Speaker 1>and not need the cyborg arm at all, the bionic

0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:27.320
<v Speaker 1>arm in order to do this, then obviously that's the

0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:30.360
<v Speaker 1>way I would go. But if if if we had

0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:35.040
<v Speaker 1>it where my robotic arm is capable of controlling things

0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:39.760
<v Speaker 1>like the various electronics in my home or that again,

0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:42.800
<v Speaker 1>like you were saying, Lauren about being able to receive

0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:45.960
<v Speaker 1>or make calls, I mean, you know, that's stuff that

0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:48.120
<v Speaker 1>I would really want. Now, Grant, I'm just talking about

0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:52.280
<v Speaker 1>my right arm. Lefty stays with me because I'm a

0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.640
<v Speaker 1>left hander and I cherish that. So you were joking

0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:58.720
<v Speaker 1>about the NERF gun, but you seriously would actually you

0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:03.240
<v Speaker 1>think trade for a somewhat capable what would you call it,

0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:06.960
<v Speaker 1>like an executive control electronic. I would definitely it would

0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:10.280
<v Speaker 1>definitely need to be able to not only do everything

0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:12.520
<v Speaker 1>that my current arm can do, but do it better.

0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.320
<v Speaker 1>It would have to, because otherwise I'd just be like, well,

0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:17.200
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I'm not going to lose my arm just

0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:19.760
<v Speaker 1>for some convenience. I would. I would need it to

0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:22.480
<v Speaker 1>be able to perform better, and I would need it

0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:25.160
<v Speaker 1>also to have those extra bells and whistles. Well, just

0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:27.400
<v Speaker 1>one thing I was going to say is that I need.

0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:30.640
<v Speaker 1>I think one thing I would need is the ability

0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:35.680
<v Speaker 1>to upgrade. Now, sure, imagine that they offer me an

0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:38.200
<v Speaker 1>arm that's exactly the same as my arm now, but

0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:40.320
<v Speaker 1>it can't get skin infections, but not like I get

0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:43.640
<v Speaker 1>a lot of skin infections on my arm, but but

0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:47.040
<v Speaker 1>just some kind of basic advantage that's not very huge.

0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:51.000
<v Speaker 1>But they say software is upgradeable so you know, I

0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:53.480
<v Speaker 1>would want to can download apps that make the arm

0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.000
<v Speaker 1>even better. I would definitely want both software and hardware

0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:59.320
<v Speaker 1>to be upgradeable, because as someone who owns a smartphone,

0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:02.000
<v Speaker 1>there's some thing that's really frustrating about taking home the

0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:04.600
<v Speaker 1>smartphonement and then like the next week, a better smartphone

0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:06.200
<v Speaker 1>comes out. Can you imagine if a better arm came

0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:09.400
<v Speaker 1>out the week after you've got or even just I mean,

0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:11.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, what if what if your arm gets viruses?

0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:13.360
<v Speaker 1>What if your arm gets computer viruses? Or what if

0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:16.520
<v Speaker 1>someone get viruses? Now what if someone can I well,

0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.040
<v Speaker 1>then is it really an improvement over your current arm

0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:21.520
<v Speaker 1>um or you know, if if if? What if? What

0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:23.720
<v Speaker 1>if a virus gets into your arm and it goes bad?

0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:27.000
<v Speaker 1>And so now we're going to an idle hands scenario, right,

0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:32.080
<v Speaker 1>you know what if someone hacks your hand and that's terrible.

0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:34.880
<v Speaker 1>How many episodes are we going to have where something

0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:38.880
<v Speaker 1>becomes a robot and then it gets virus eventually they

0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:45.040
<v Speaker 1>hack it and then it's dangerous. I think everything is

0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:49.200
<v Speaker 1>potentially hackable. Oh no, they hacked my coffee cup, Lauren. Honestly,

0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:51.360
<v Speaker 1>I think I think if someone wants to do you harm,

0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:53.680
<v Speaker 1>they are easier ways of going about it than hacking

0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:55.960
<v Speaker 1>into your cyborg. I don't know, but that one has

0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:58.960
<v Speaker 1>style I would, I would, Okay, Yeah, Well it's good

0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:00.680
<v Speaker 1>to know that Lauren would pick that. So if we

0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:04.280
<v Speaker 1>see Lauren with how to hack robotic arms for dummies

0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:06.320
<v Speaker 1>that are desk, we all know not to go with that.

0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:13.080
<v Speaker 1>Elective surgery. Well, you know, this is interesting hypothetical conversation

0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:15.520
<v Speaker 1>in a way, or conversation. It's not, it's a real conversation.

0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:18.960
<v Speaker 1>It's an interesting conversation about a hypothetical topic. Um, it'll

0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:20.720
<v Speaker 1>be interesting to see if we ever do reach a

0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:24.560
<v Speaker 1>time in our lifetimes where such a consideration would need

0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:28.000
<v Speaker 1>to be made for realities. I mean, we've seen people

0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:32.439
<v Speaker 1>elect to have their arms, their injured arms amputated. I

0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:34.480
<v Speaker 1>don't know that we're ever going to get to a

0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:38.200
<v Speaker 1>point within our lifetime where a healthy limb would be

0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:43.119
<v Speaker 1>amputated by choice. If that does happen, it'll be huge news,

0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:46.240
<v Speaker 1>and I imagine there will also be an enormous backlash

0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:49.280
<v Speaker 1>in the medical community and in a real debate about

0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:52.359
<v Speaker 1>the ethics of such a thing, like who performs such

0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:56.119
<v Speaker 1>a surgery and is that ethical or not? Yeah, that

0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.800
<v Speaker 1>there's a there's a condition under which people feel like

0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:02.400
<v Speaker 1>limbs that they have that are healthy are not their

0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:05.440
<v Speaker 1>own and they want them off. Yeah. Yeah, no, I've

0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:08.119
<v Speaker 1>I've heard of such a thing as well, and that

0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:12.040
<v Speaker 1>that raises questions like if you were to open this up, Uh,

0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:15.960
<v Speaker 1>is that ethical if people who might have um something

0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:20.280
<v Speaker 1>that that other folks would identify as a disorder, Whether

0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:22.240
<v Speaker 1>you want to call it that or not, I'm sure

0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:25.360
<v Speaker 1>there are many people who would say that is a disorder, right,

0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:28.199
<v Speaker 1>that's fair enough to say. Would it be fair to

0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:30.199
<v Speaker 1>open up the doors for those people to go in

0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.680
<v Speaker 1>and have these elective amputations? Or would that be unethical

0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:36.639
<v Speaker 1>if the medical community said no, this needs to be

0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:40.879
<v Speaker 1>treated as a form of psychological disorder. You know that

0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:42.239
<v Speaker 1>there are a lot of there are a lot of

0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:44.679
<v Speaker 1>tricky questions, and we don't have the answers for it,

0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:47.320
<v Speaker 1>mostly because we're our technology is not there yet. But

0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:50.240
<v Speaker 1>the reason why we have these conversations is that technology

0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:52.560
<v Speaker 1>is going to continue to advance and we will one

0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:56.600
<v Speaker 1>day be at that point. So having the conversation early

0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:01.560
<v Speaker 1>is a lot better than having it after the fact. Definitely. Ways, So, guys,

0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:03.960
<v Speaker 1>this is a good time to remind you. If you

0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:06.639
<v Speaker 1>are interested in these sort of topics, please go to

0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:10.560
<v Speaker 1>our website f w Thinking dot com and let us know.

0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:13.240
<v Speaker 1>You can check out the video series. There, you can

0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:16.679
<v Speaker 1>read our blog posts and really take part in this

0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:19.800
<v Speaker 1>conversation and let us know what you are excited about

0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:22.440
<v Speaker 1>as far as the future is concerned, and that way

0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:25.600
<v Speaker 1>we can concentrate on these topics and really have a

0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:28.040
<v Speaker 1>great conversation about We look forward to hearing from you

0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:33.879
<v Speaker 1>and we will talk to you again really soon. For

0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:36.800
<v Speaker 1>more on this topic in the future of technology, visit

0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:46.359
<v Speaker 1>forward thinking dot Com brought to you by Toyota. Let's

0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:47.040
<v Speaker 1>Go Places,