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Speaker 1: The Innocent Network is an informal collective of independent organizations

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Speaker 1: that advocate on behalf of the wrongfully convicted, and every

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Speaker 1: year they gather along with the growing number of those

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Speaker 1: whom they've helped free. Our team was honored to join

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Speaker 1: them for their twenty twenty two gathering in Arizona. The

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Speaker 1: stories we heard were both heartbreaking and inspiring, and some

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Speaker 1: of those incredible people were willing to record with us.

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Speaker 1: On January tenth, nineteen seventy five, there was an open

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Speaker 1: house party in Suffolk County, Long Island, attended by seventeen

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Speaker 1: year old Keith Bush and fourteen year old Cherise Watson.

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Speaker 1: Over twenty alibi witnesses confirmed that Keith Bush was with

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Speaker 1: them in the house around one thirty am, when Scherise

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Speaker 1: was believed to have gotten into a red sedan, never

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Speaker 1: to be seen alive again. The following day, Cheres's parents

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Speaker 1: frantic search for their daughter included a visit to Keith Bush,

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Speaker 1: who had told them about how he last saw her

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Speaker 1: inside the house party. Later that evening, her body was

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Speaker 1: discovered in a field near that house, having been strangled

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Speaker 1: to death. Us were partially on zipped and there were

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Speaker 1: multiple groupings of small punctual wounds on her back. Curiously,

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Speaker 1: the wounds had not bled. Biological material and clothing fibers

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Speaker 1: were gathered from her fingernails, and a hair pick was

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Speaker 1: found near her body. Two witness statements emerged alleging that

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Speaker 1: Keith was the last person seen with Cherise. Ignoring a

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Speaker 1: more promising lead, investigators instead tortured Keith in the police

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Speaker 1: station until he relented and signed a statement he hadn't

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Speaker 1: even read. It was a false confession riddled with inconsistencies,

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Speaker 1: including an impossible hair pick stabbing scenario that sent Keith way.

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Speaker 2: For twenty years to life.

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Speaker 1: DNA testing, independent autopsies, and witness recantations proved Keith's confession

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Speaker 1: was false, Yet Suffolk County authorities and the Parole Board

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Speaker 1: were not so easily convinced.

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Speaker 2: This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction.

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Speaker 1: Here we're recording at the Innocence Network conference in Phoenix,

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Speaker 1: and what you're about to hear combines junk science, a

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Speaker 1: false confession, police and prosecutorial misconduct on a scale that

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Speaker 1: is staggering, lying witnesses, incentivized witnesses. It involves so many

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Speaker 1: of the causes of wrongful convictions that we see again

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Speaker 1: and again, all wrapped up into one. Keith Bush, Welcome

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Speaker 1: to wrongful conviction.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: You know, I always say I'm sorry you're here because well,

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Speaker 1: the reason why we're interviewing you today. But I'm very

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Speaker 1: honored to have you here.

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Speaker 3: I appreciate being here.

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Speaker 1: And your story is important for us to tell because

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Speaker 1: a lot of the reasons that I've already laid out.

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Speaker 1: But before we do that, what I really want to

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Speaker 1: do is talk about the young man Keith Bush, the

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Speaker 1: young teenager Keith Bush growing up in Long Island.

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Speaker 3: Well, I was born in Bridgeport, Connecticut. I was kind

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Speaker 3: of raised in Bridgeport, Connecticut. My mother and my father

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Speaker 3: they separated when I was young. My mother has her

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Speaker 3: roots in Long Island. Her grandparents were born on the

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Speaker 3: Indian reservation. So she used to take us back and

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Speaker 3: forth to Long Island from Bridgeport, Connecticut, and then she

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Speaker 3: eventually moved to Bellport, New York.

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Speaker 2: Got it.

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Speaker 1: And from what I understand, you were a fine young man.

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Speaker 1: You weren't in any sort of trouble. Would you say

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Speaker 1: that you were on the right track growing up?

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Speaker 3: I was basically like most kids. I played sports, you know,

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Speaker 3: I went to school, went to parties, and did basically

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Speaker 3: what you know kids normally do growing up.

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Speaker 1: Sounds like a nice childhood ride in the ferry back

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Speaker 1: and forth. Everything was fine more or less right. Everybody

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Speaker 1: has their ups and downs, but everything was fine until

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Speaker 1: this terrible incident that happened at a party Suffolk County,

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Speaker 1: Long Island. And we know that Suffolk County unfortunately has

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Speaker 1: been a hotbed of police corruption and misconduct for generations.

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Speaker 1: Of course, we've covered the Marty Tankliff story on this podcast,

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Speaker 1: but your story is as powerful as any, so let's

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Speaker 1: get right into it. So this crime we're talking about

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Speaker 1: January eleventh, nineteen seventy five, the middle of the winter,

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Speaker 1: and on that fateful day, the parents of a young

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Speaker 1: girl named Sharise Watson called the Suffoc County Police Department

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Speaker 1: and they were worried because their daughter hadn't come home

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Speaker 1: from a party at a friend's house just a few

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Speaker 1: blocks away. This would be a cost for concern. She's fourteen,

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Speaker 1: It's the wee hours of the morning, and they began

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Speaker 1: looking for Sharis. Now, about one hundred people had attended

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Speaker 1: this party, and you were one of them, right, Keith.

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Speaker 3: That's correct. On Saturday, the eleventh of January nineteen seventy five,

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Speaker 3: Scharisse's mother, in her effort of trying to locate her daughter,

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Speaker 3: she was trying to go around finding all the peace

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Speaker 3: people that her daughter had come in contact with. They

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Speaker 3: came to my home and she had quiet about, you know,

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Speaker 3: Serice Watson, did she come home with me? Did she

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Speaker 3: leave with anybody or whatever? And I told her, I

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Speaker 3: don't know, because the last time I talked to her,

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Speaker 3: she walked out the front door and said I'll see

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Speaker 3: you later, but she didn't indicate that she was going

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Speaker 3: home or even coming back. And she said, well, if

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Speaker 3: you hear anything, could you give me a call. Later

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Speaker 3: on in the evening, they came back Cherise's mother and

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Speaker 3: her father to my house. That's when they came with

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Speaker 3: the police officer. And this time they obviously hadn't you know,

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Speaker 3: heard from her. And you're talking about five or six

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Speaker 3: o'clock in the afternoon.

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Speaker 1: I think it's every parent's worst nightmare, right, it is missing.

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Speaker 1: It's a young girl. I think that adds a layer

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Speaker 1: of fear, you know. But her body was found in

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Speaker 1: the field nearby where the party had been helped. Brace

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Speaker 1: yourself for this because it's hard to hear. But she

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Speaker 1: was faced down, her pants were partially unzipped, and there

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Speaker 1: were numerous small punctures on her back. That's an important detail,

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Speaker 1: as we'll see as we go along, And autopsy would

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Speaker 1: later say that she had been strangled with enough force

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Speaker 1: to snap the hyoid bone in her throat near her body,

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Speaker 1: another important detail which becomes the subject of misconduct of

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Speaker 1: a type that would be comical if it wasn't so

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Speaker 1: terrible and so serious. But near her body, police also

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Speaker 1: found a black plastic hairpick and a white hat.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's important to note that that night they

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Speaker 3: found Serise Watson, my cousin, and another friend that came

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Speaker 3: to my house with this elder gentleman Vietnam. That this

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Speaker 3: guy named Robert Stewart, and I didn't know him, but

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Speaker 3: my cousin, George Golson, knew him, and he seemed to

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Speaker 3: be a concerned person in the community, and we were

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Speaker 3: talking about what happened, and he wanted to try to help,

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Speaker 3: like a lot of people in the community, to find

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Speaker 3: out what happened to Scherise. So he had asked us,

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Speaker 3: if you know, we were willing to help find out

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Speaker 3: some of the people who was at the party, really

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Speaker 3: find out who did this, and so I agreed that,

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Speaker 3: you know, I would help in any way that I could,

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Speaker 3: and we had met over to this guy's house two nights.

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Speaker 3: He had said that, you know, there was having some

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Speaker 3: problems with the names of people who was at the party.

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Speaker 3: They didn't know how to connect the names to the faces,

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Speaker 3: and that maybe that we can kind of help connect

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Speaker 3: them because these people can probably provide some information about

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Speaker 3: what really happened. Only thing we knew at that time

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Speaker 3: was that Scherise Watson had came out the house and

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Speaker 3: got into a car, a stolen red car with three individuals,

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Speaker 3: and drove off. We heard that these individuals were from

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Speaker 3: Riverhead in Suffolk County, which is another town over, but

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Speaker 3: I never knew who these persons were, and no one

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Speaker 3: really revealed it at that time.

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Speaker 1: So there's this whole red Sedan scenario right and compelling

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Speaker 1: alternate suspects. In fact, in May nineteen seventy five, which

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Speaker 1: was a few months after the murder, but critically before

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Speaker 1: you wereun for conviction, a guy named John Jones had

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Speaker 1: given a statement to the police which placed him at

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Speaker 1: the crime scene, and he admitted that the hair pick

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Speaker 1: at the scene was his. Now we can only speculate

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Speaker 1: that Jones wasn't pursued any further and a statement was

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Speaker 1: hidden from over four decades simply because police had already

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Speaker 1: decided that you were the guy.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Of course, that had dire consequences and not just only

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Speaker 1: for you, But we'll get to that in a minute.

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Speaker 1: But back to the immedia aftermath. So you knew Charise

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Speaker 1: and you had joined Robert Stewart's effort with your cousin

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Speaker 1: George Golson and your friend Chuckie Corbyn. My understanding is

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Speaker 1: you told police what you told Cherise's mother, right the

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Speaker 1: same thing, that you had seen her walk out of

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Speaker 1: the party sometime around one am. Now, over twenty alibi

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Speaker 1: witnesses placed you at the party before you left around

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Speaker 1: three in the morning. Now, police claimed to have learned

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Speaker 1: that Cherise had left the party around when one thirty am,

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Speaker 1: and that a little while later people heard screaming and

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Speaker 1: shouts of rape coming from the field near the party

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Speaker 1: where her body was eventually bound. So on its face,

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Speaker 1: it seems very weird that no one from the party

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Speaker 1: looked into these alleged shouts of rape. And then I

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Speaker 1: also say that police claimed to have learned this because

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Speaker 1: wasn't Charisse said to have left in a red sedan.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: Police also interviewed a girl named Brenda Carlos, who said

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Speaker 1: that she had last seen Charise talking to you around

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Speaker 1: one fifteen am, but left the party before Charise, so

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Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like her statement is very relevant.

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Speaker 3: Brenda Carlos was introduced to me by Charisse Watson that night.

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Speaker 3: From my understanding, Brenda Carlos was a little older than

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Speaker 3: Sarise and she was supposed to walk her home and

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Speaker 3: make sure she had got home. And Brenda Carlos had

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Speaker 3: said that she was going home, and Sharise Watson told

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Speaker 3: her that she wasn't going to go home, so she said, okay,

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Speaker 3: I'll see you later and she left. That was her

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Speaker 3: statement to police, which was kind of insignificant in terms

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Speaker 3: of the crime itself. But at trial when she testified,

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Speaker 3: she kind of altered that statement, and the bivocal part

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Speaker 3: of her testimony then became when she asked her where

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Speaker 3: you're going home? She said no, Kipy was going to

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Speaker 3: walk her home, and Kipy was supposed to be me

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Speaker 3: Keith Bush.

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Speaker 1: Even still, this would be circumstantial evidence even if her

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Speaker 1: second story was true.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: What they were doing is kind of painting a picture.

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Speaker 3: Her statement might not have been relevant within itself, but

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Speaker 3: her statement becomes relevant when she's mentioning my name, and

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Speaker 3: then there's other evidence of suggestion that kind of points

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Speaker 3: to me now.

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Speaker 1: Police interviewed a teenage girl. Fifteen year old girl in

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Speaker 1: Vaccine Bell. She had recently run away from her foster

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Speaker 1: home and was living in an abandoned building. She knew

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Speaker 1: Sharise as well as you, Keith right, and many other

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Speaker 1: people at the party from when I guess she had

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Speaker 1: attended the same school as you did at one time.

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Speaker 3: Oh, yes, she did so.

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Speaker 1: The statement she gave police, she said that she was

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Speaker 1: standing outside the party for several hours and had seen

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Speaker 1: you and Scharise leaving together quote unquote hugged up. That's

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Speaker 1: what she later testified, with your arms cradling Charise around

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Speaker 1: the neck. I wonder if somebody told her to say that,

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying, what can you tell us about this

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Speaker 1: young girl?

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Speaker 3: They had got two statements from him, but in that

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Speaker 3: first statement that Monday, which was the thirteenth of January

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Speaker 3: nineteen seventy five, she alleges that Cherise Watson comes out

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Speaker 3: the house with me, and when the Carlos later she backtracks.

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Speaker 3: She testifies that Charis Watson came out the house with me,

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Speaker 3: hugged up, and she asked her that you know, you

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Speaker 3: want me to walk you home, and then Cherise allegedly

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Speaker 3: told to know that you know, I was going to

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Speaker 3: walk her home, and she alleges that she left us

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Speaker 3: standing there and that was the last time, you know,

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Speaker 3: she had seen Charise, and she had hollered to her

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Speaker 3: that I'll call you tomorrow and she said okay. That

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Speaker 3: was her testimony, and that made me, according to the police,

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Speaker 3: a suspect in the case because that testimony was inconsistent

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Speaker 3: with the original statement I gave to police about my

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Speaker 3: activities on the night of the party.

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Speaker 1: Right, what you've always maintained about your activities on the

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Speaker 1: night of the party was that you stayed inside the

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Speaker 1: party when Charise left. And again, over twenty alibi witnesses

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Speaker 1: did confirm that, and some of them later even testified

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Speaker 1: despite pressure from the police, but police used this statement

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Speaker 1: from Maxim Bell, alleging that you were the last person

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Speaker 1: seeing with Scherise in order to establish probable cause. Now,

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Speaker 1: she tried to recant this statement as early as nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty and eventually admitted in the twenty sixteen Affi David

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Speaker 1: that the statement was made out of fear of the

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Speaker 1: police and that she chose to just confirm what they

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Speaker 1: already believed. And when our audience, here's what happens next

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Speaker 1: to you, we can only imagine what kind of pressure

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Speaker 1: and terror was brought down on Maxine Bell, this young

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Speaker 1: female at risk runaway in order to evoke that false statement.

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Speaker 1: So on January fourteen, things started to spiral even further downhill.

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Speaker 1: You were at school and detectives were with your investigative,

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Speaker 1: CHUCKI Corbin, George Golson, and the Vietnam VETT Robert Stewart,

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Speaker 1: and the cops didn't just come and grab you first.

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Speaker 1: The two younger guys were sent to get you from school,

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Speaker 1: but when the school said that they needed an adult

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Speaker 1: to come and get you, Robert Stewart came instead. You

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Speaker 1: were released to him and he brought you to his

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Speaker 1: house where you thought that you were still just helping

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Speaker 1: with this lead on the stolen red sedan. Now, apparently

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Speaker 1: there was a guy named Michael Christian who might have

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Speaker 1: known something about the guys in the red car, and

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Speaker 1: you thought you were just going to look at some

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Speaker 1: pictures and help the police in any way that you could.

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Speaker 1: So you got back to mister Stewart's what happened next.

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Speaker 3: That's when the police officers came in and they started

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Speaker 3: interviewing us about, you know, what we knew in Ivis.

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Speaker 3: I was the one that was at the party, George

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Speaker 3: Golsen was, and Chucky Corbin had left earlier, so they

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Speaker 3: were mainly asking the questions towards me. And then they

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Speaker 3: asked if I can show them where Michael Christian lives.

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Speaker 3: And this was a guy that supposed to had heard

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Speaker 3: something from these guys the next day that was in

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Speaker 3: that red car. That was something that's supposed to have been incriminating.

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Speaker 3: I know Michael Christian, and I knew where he lived.

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Speaker 3: But now, actually what they did is when I showed

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Speaker 3: him where he lived, they rolled past the house. So

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Speaker 3: I asked him where they were going, so they said, oh,

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Speaker 3: we have to go. We're going to the precinct to

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Speaker 3: get the list of names. We thought we had them,

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Speaker 3: but we don't have them, so that you can look

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Speaker 3: at him and go over them. But before they got there,

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Speaker 3: and they had spoke to two detectives that was in

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Speaker 3: another car behind them, got back in the car. They

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Speaker 3: took me to the fifth Precinct in Patchog, which is

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Speaker 3: the town over, and then they brought me down into

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Speaker 3: a basement. When they brought me down to the basement,

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Speaker 3: they they walked out, and two detectives walked in, Detective

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Speaker 3: Dennis Rafferty and Detective August Stall. They walked in and

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Speaker 3: took over the investigation. And that was the last time

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Speaker 3: I seen the outside world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and this interrogation, it probably won't surprise.

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Speaker 1: People who are regular listeners to the podcast, but this

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Speaker 1: interrogation resulted in your false confession after they punched and

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Speaker 1: kicked and abused you in ways that had to be

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Speaker 1: beyond terrifying. I mean, on top of the fact that

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Speaker 1: it was sort of a surprise attack because you weren't

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Speaker 1: even brought there as a suspect. Now all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: you're in the basement. That's scary enough, right, like kind

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Speaker 1: of almost like a dungeon scenario. Right as we find

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Speaker 1: out later, at least one of these detectives was so

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Speaker 1: racist that he was throwing the N word around. So

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Speaker 1: tell us about the interrogation itself.

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Speaker 3: Let me just say, you know, the forty four years

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Speaker 3: I've been battling with this effort to exonerate myself, the

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Speaker 3: encounter in the precinct, particularly with the physical abuse, the psychological.

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Speaker 3: Of all the efforts that I made to exonerate myself,

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Speaker 3: the most painful part of that whole experience really sits did.

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Speaker 3: What they did to me was something I would have

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Speaker 3: never imagined from a person of that status, because obviously,

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Speaker 3: when you're young, you're taught to believe that law enforcement

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Speaker 3: represents an authority that's equivalent to your parents. So when

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Speaker 3: they begin to question me, in spite of the fact

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Speaker 3: that I maintained my innocence, they didn't really want to

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Speaker 3: hear that. They were only concerned with trying to get

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Speaker 3: me to confess to the crime and to sign a confession,

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Speaker 3: you know, with promises that they can help me. You know,

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Speaker 3: I was a young kid, you know, things happened. I

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Speaker 3: just wanted to get laid. And then they started to

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Speaker 3: tell me about this statement they had from this witness,

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Speaker 3: which is why they said they know that I committed

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Speaker 3: the crime because I was the last person to be

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Speaker 3: seen with her alive. And they went on and on

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Speaker 3: with this for maybe about an hour and a half,

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Speaker 3: and then they decided to move me to Hogpok, which

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Speaker 3: is the headquarters for homicide squad. Now, I constantly asked

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Speaker 3: them could I call my mother. I felt the pressure

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Speaker 3: of confinement, of being trapped. Today I can articulate it

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Speaker 3: as in communicato. There was no way, you know, they

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Speaker 3: was letting me out of here, and I had to

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Speaker 3: figure out how to get out of there. You know,

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Speaker 3: I found out that my cousin and mister Stewart and

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Speaker 3: Chucky Corbin had came to the precinct two to four

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Speaker 3: times looking for me, and they told them that I

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Speaker 3: wasn't there. So obviously they had no intentions of it ever.

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Speaker 3: Let me get past that phase.

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Speaker 2: No, they wouldn't have let Jesus in if he showed

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Speaker 2: up to try to help you.

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Speaker 3: Right, And their intentions was clear. They wanted me to

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Speaker 3: confess to this crime. And once they took me to

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Speaker 3: hog Park, they kept drilling me, one officer coming in

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Speaker 3: after another, and you know, they kept going through that

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Speaker 3: whole process, the good guy, bad guy tactic, and I

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Speaker 3: kept telling him over and over I didn't commit the crime.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to call my my mother, called somebody, but

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Speaker 3: you know, they just continue the process until all of

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Speaker 3: a sudden, six or seven of these guys came running

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Speaker 3: in and grabbed me from all over and just started

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Speaker 3: pounding me, hit me upside their head with a phone

340
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Speaker 3: book and stopping, trying to make me sign a confession.

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Speaker 3: And I kept telling them I didn't do it. Then

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Speaker 3: they would start back up, stop, start. You know, they're threatening,

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Speaker 3: and you know we're gonna make you stare you'll never

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Speaker 3: have kids, and you know you're not going nowhere til

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Speaker 3: you sign this. We'll beat you to and you know

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Speaker 3: they're going on and on, and at some point, you know,

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Speaker 3: I just you know, I got scared. I lost my focus,

348
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Speaker 3: and when I signed that confession, I signed my life away.

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Speaker 3: I know I signed something. I didn't know what the

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Speaker 3: confession said or what I signed said. I never set

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Speaker 3: it out my mouth. I just signed the paper. When

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Speaker 3: I first came to the County jail, I was in

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Speaker 3: sick Bay for maybe the week to two weeks, and

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Speaker 3: that's when I first you know read and found out

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Speaker 3: what I had allegedly said to them through the signing

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Speaker 3: of the confession.

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Speaker 1: You quickly recanted your confession, saying that the detectives wouldn't

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Speaker 1: accept your denials or even let you call your mother.

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Speaker 1: And importantly, this confession said that when she pulled your

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Speaker 1: hand away from her pants, that she had refused your

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Speaker 1: sexual advance, and then when she pulled her hand away,

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Speaker 1: you started stabbing her with her hair pick, and that

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Speaker 1: when she screamed or strangled her to keep her quiet.

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Speaker 1: So they provided the narrative, but even what they said

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Speaker 1: was obviously provably not true and not possible scientifically, because

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Speaker 1: the victim didn't bleed, which means of course that she

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Speaker 1: was dead before whatever it was that punctured her skin

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Speaker 1: punctured her skin.

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Speaker 3: That was a fabricated confession constructed by them before the

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Speaker 3: facts were cleared to them. Whatever they had at that

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Speaker 3: particular time, they used to try to paint a picture

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Speaker 3: of me committing this crime, and they got it wrong.

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Speaker 1: Now, the hairpic is so important in this scenario. First

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Speaker 1: of all, it's a ridiculous concept the hairpick. Unless it's

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Speaker 1: made out of steel, it's going to break if you

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Speaker 1: start stabbing somebody with it. And you don't have to

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Speaker 1: be scientists to figure this out or an expert in

378
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Speaker 1: plastic Did you even carry a hair pick at the time?

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Speaker 1: Keith is balled these days, so I don't know what

380
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Speaker 1: your hairstyle was back then.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I wore an afro. Back then. We all carried picks.

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Speaker 3: They were popular.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

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Speaker 3: During the interrogation, they had showed me a black plastic

385
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,679
Speaker 3: pick that wasn't a plastic bag. And I didn't know

386
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Speaker 3: that the pick that they found was from the crime scene.

387
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Speaker 3: And they asked me, was that my pick? I said, no,

388
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Speaker 3: that wasn't. But I don't know what's going on. I

389
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Speaker 3: ain't know what she had punctured wounds in a lower back.

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Speaker 2: How would you know? You weren't there?

391
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know none of this now.

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Speaker 1: They executed a search warrant on your house on January fourteenth,

393
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Speaker 1: and they recovered or claimed to recover several items, including

394
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Speaker 1: a metal hair pic that would be introduced to trial

395
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Speaker 1: as the weapon that left the punctures on Scharissa's back,

396
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Speaker 1: but it would later be revealed again surprise surprise, that

397
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Speaker 1: the pick the police seized didn't belong to.

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Speaker 3: You, they wasn't going to leave my home until they

399
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 3: found a metal pick, it didn't matter what kind, with

400
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Speaker 3: style or whatever. And when they didn't have my pick,

401
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 3: they called my cousin, George. He came over and he

402
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,159
Speaker 3: gave them his pick because my brother told them they

403
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,359
Speaker 3: ain't gonna leave until they get a pick. But the

404
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 3: detective tried to testify that they got the pick from

405
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Speaker 3: my brother, and my brother said it was my pick,

406
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Speaker 3: which was a lie.

407
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Speaker 1: There's no real way to describe this other than that

408
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 1: they planted the evidence. They didn't even bother the plant

409
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Speaker 1: it themselves. They had to have somebody else come and

410
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Speaker 1: bring me. It's so incredibly twisted.

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Speaker 3: So that pick that they alleged was used to create

412
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Speaker 3: those puncture wounds on a lower back, they went clusters

413
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Speaker 3: of threes, four and five. They had one that went

414
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Speaker 3: so deep that it almost hit the liver. And you know,

415
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Speaker 3: obviously today we have these medical experts saying that it's

416
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Speaker 3: impossible for that pick to have caused those punctured wounds.

417
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Speaker 1: You don't have to be an experts and know that

418
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Speaker 1: that's not possible. It's not possible because it's not possible.

419
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Speaker 1: It's plastic and it's.

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Speaker 3: Dull these experts are saying today. Is like, you know,

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Speaker 3: even an expert back then should have drawned that same conclusion.

422
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Speaker 3: They said, I confessed it to a crime that was

423
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Speaker 3: impossible to have happened. But the medical examiner testified in

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Speaker 3: his opinion that these pick calls those puncture wounds.

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Speaker 1: Well, you had not only the medical examiner who was

426
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Speaker 1: either completely wrong or lying, you have a suffercount of

427
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 1: detective who's there saying that the victim who fought for

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Speaker 1: her life scratching her assailant had your jacket under her fingernails.

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Speaker 3: As if they test every jack that was ever made

430
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Speaker 3: and determine, you know, the particularities of those fibers or whatever.

431
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Speaker 3: But there was no science to back it up.

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Speaker 1: Right, when we talk about junk science again, I have

433
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Speaker 1: to laugh to keep from crying. I mean, it's so

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Speaker 1: ridiculous that a fourth grader should be able to figure

435
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 1: out that this was not possible. But of course a

436
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,919
Speaker 1: jury is going to be susceptible to testimony from people

437
00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:00,199
Speaker 1: like this who are supposedly quote unquote experts. So on

438
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 1: April eighteenth, this is important. There's not a logical suspect

439
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 1: I'm talking about this guy, John Jones. A few months

440
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: after the crime, they arrested a guy named John Jones

441
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: on a charge of unauthorized use of a vehicle. Now,

442
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: no one really knows how he came to the attention

443
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 1: of the homicide detectives, but he was questioned about Cheresa's

444
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: death and given a polygraph that was said to be inconclusive.

445
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,880
Speaker 1: He was interviewed again on May ninth, short time after,

446
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 1: and this time he gave a more expansive statement. I

447
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: got another red flag. He said he was at the party,

448
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 1: got drunk and started to walk to his sister's house,

449
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:35,679
Speaker 1: even though she lived east of the party, and the

450
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 1: body was found to the west.

451
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 2: Red Flag number two Jones.

452
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 1: This character said that he stumbled over Sharesa's body in

453
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 1: the field and the process dropped his hair pick. He

454
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 1: said he didn't know that the girl was dead until

455
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 1: he heard about the death on the news.

456
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 3: Keep in mind, we never knew nothing about this guy

457
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 3: till like forty years later. You know, at the time

458
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 3: they interviewed him, they kept this hidden. We do know

459
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 3: that the district attorney was intimately involved than it be

460
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 3: because when they did the polygraph test, it was sent

461
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 3: to him, and the person who took the statement from

462
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 3: him was Detective Rafferty. John Jones also admits to the

463
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 3: guy that when that showed him the black pick, he said, yeah,

464
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 3: that looks like my pick, and he places himself at

465
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:21,719
Speaker 3: the crime scene around the time frame that the experts

466
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 3: estimate the cause of death. But they had already threw

467
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,439
Speaker 3: the crime on me. They had already claimed that I

468
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 3: voluntarily confessed to the crime, and they didn't have the

469
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 3: integrity or dignity to step back and say we made

470
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 3: a mistake and open up that avenue of investigation.

471
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: So they protected this guy, who they had every reason

472
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:48,159
Speaker 1: to believe was a vicious killer of a young child.

473
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: They allowed him to ring three. On February sixteenth of

474
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six, he was arrested in charge with third

475
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: degree rape after he impregnated a fifteen year old girl.

476
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: But two weeks after Jones's arrest, ironically, two weeks later,

477
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 1: on March first, nineteen seventy six, your trial began in

478
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court of the State of New York for

479
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 1: Suffolk County. You had a paid attorney named Harold Sulligman.

480
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: The prosecutor was Gerald Sullivan, and the judge was Mervin Tannebound.

481
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: The state's case, of course, was built around Bell's testimony,

482
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: your false confession immediately recanted and the quote unquote forensic

483
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: and physical evidence which we now know was just a

484
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 1: pack of lies. So doctor Adelman of the Suffolk County

485
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 1: Medical Examiner's Office, as you mentioned, he said that the

486
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 1: punker wounds on Charesa's back were consistent with the arrangement

487
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 1: of the times on the hair pick found at your house,

488
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,640
Speaker 1: but the plastic pick was not interered into evidence a trial. Wow,

489
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 1: there's a lot of lies just in that sentence alone.

490
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 1: There's like three or four lives. It's incredible. A suffer

491
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 1: County detective predictably testified that the three fibers recovered from

492
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: beneath Sharesa's fingernails quote did contain unquote fibers taken from

493
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: a denim jacket that you wore. That would be laughable

494
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: if it wasn't so serious. And when this sick fuck

495
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: Rafferty testified, he denied any wrongdoing during your interrogation. Also predictable,

496
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 1: he claimed that you freely, involuntarily gave your statement. Seligman

497
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: had no knowledge your lawyer, right had no knowledge of

498
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: John Jones, as you mentioned Keith or his statement to

499
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: the police. When he cross examined Rafferty, he said to

500
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: the detective quote, officer, was there other suspects on the

501
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 1: day you interviewed my client? Sullivan Deda objected, and the

502
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: jury was excused while the two sides had a conference

503
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 1: in the judges chambers. According to an investigation by Newsday,

504
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 1: Sullivan said there were.

505
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 2: No other suspects.

506
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: He told the judge that quote, there was nobody else

507
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 1: who was connected with the crime with any evidence end quote.

508
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,959
Speaker 1: That is an incredibly bold lie. Sullivan said that if

509
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 1: Seligman took Rafferty down that path, it would open the

510
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: door to him asking the detective about all sorts of

511
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 1: raw evidence that might be damaging to you Keith, and

512
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 1: Seligman backed off.

513
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 3: He was preventing my lawyer from opening up lines of

514
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 3: questioning as to other suspects in this case. Detective Rafferty

515
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 3: was the one who took the statement from John J. Jones,

516
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 3: and this was three weeks after he's sitting at a

517
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 3: Huntly hearing determining the voluntary or involuntariliness of the confession.

518
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 3: This guy is given testimony and he's pretending like I'm

519
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 3: the only person of interest. So now when he testifies

520
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 3: that trial, when we did not question him in that area,

521
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 3: we did not get an opportunity for him to go

522
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 3: on the record. And I mean, obviously the lying all throughout,

523
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 3: but to continuously lie by concealing exculpatory evidence.

524
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: And the existence of Jones as an ultimate suspect was

525
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: hidden from you, as you said, Keith, for four decades,

526
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: forty long years. And you also had multiple alibi witnesses.

527
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: Some of them testified again under oath, that you would

528
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: stay at the party till three am, an hour and

529
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: a half after the murder took place. Others testified that

530
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: they never saw Bell outside the party. But several alibi

531
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: witnesses didn't testify, and of course it comes out later

532
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: and they said this in an affid Davis, that the

533
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: police threatened them with the rest if they helped you

534
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: with your defense. So that's what the police were doing.

535
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: While they were letting this Jones guy walk the street.

536
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 1: They were out there paying visits to the people who

537
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 1: wanted to do their duty, who wanted to be honest

538
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: and forthright and come to your defense. As they knew

539
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: you weren't the guy that did it. You did testify

540
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: in your own defense denying killing her, of course, but

541
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: when you testified about the brutal beating that you endured

542
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: in the interrogation room, the prosecution attacked you. Tell me

543
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: if this is wrong, Keith. They asked how many times

544
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: you had been hit, and when you responded, I don't know.

545
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: I wasn't counting, but I know it was a lot

546
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: of times end quote, that was enough for them to say, well,

547
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: see that he doesn't even know how many times he

548
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: was hit.

549
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 2: What the hell are they talking about?

550
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 3: Ask the position they try to take.

551
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: But everybody should have seen through that. You were acquitted

552
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 1: of intentional premeditated murder, but convicted of second degree murder

553
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: and attempted sexual abuse and sentenced to twenty years to

554
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: life in prison.

555
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 3: I was withdrawn. I was in a state of confusion,

556
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 3: and it threw me into a deep state of shame

557
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 3: of hurt because I was ashamed at myself for allowing

558
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 3: them to do that to me, like I trapped myself

559
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 3: in hell. Obviously, I've seen the world looking down upon me,

560
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 3: and the hatred that people had for me was the

561
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 3: direct result of me allowing those detectives to do that

562
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 3: to me, and that bothered me to the extent that

563
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 3: I hated them, I hated the system. I just felt

564
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 3: a sense of anger, almost like it was born out

565
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 3: of me, like an entity on my back. I had

566
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 3: a sense of anger that may have served as a

567
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 3: few and all I wanted to do was fight back.

568
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 3: And for forty four years, I just kept fighting back

569
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 3: in every way I could.

570
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 2: And fight back you did.

571
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: So let's talk about the impellate process and how you

572
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: got here. So initially, you didn't go after all of

573
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: the issues of innocence that we've already laid out so far. Rather,

574
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: the first appeal was focused on whether or not it

575
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: was legal for them even to have detained you in

576
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: the first place, and a Supreme Court decision had come

577
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: down in nineteen seventy nine, I believe, called Dunaway versus

578
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: New York, which addressed issues relating to the Fourth and

579
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: fourteenth Amendments. Now, the fourth Amendment prohibits unreasonable searchers or

580
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: seizures and sets the guidelines for the issuing of warrants,

581
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: and importantly here that warrants must be justified by probable cause.

582
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 2: Now after hearing your arguments, the.

583
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: Appell Division found the police used deception and trickery to.

584
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 2: Illegally de team you.

585
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: But if there was significant evidence to show probable cause,

586
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: it would cure, so to speak, the illegal detention. Your

587
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: defense was ready to argue that police did not have

588
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 1: probable cause, even with the statement that Maxine Bell was

589
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: just about to recant.

590
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 3: Maxine Bell had left Bell put after my conviction because

591
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 3: she was having problems with kids in the community and

592
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 3: there was well, how did you lie on them? And

593
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 3: so anyway, to our surprise, the prosecutor had sent Maxime

594
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 3: Bell a plane ticket from Alabama to come back to testify.

595
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 3: But when she came back, she had told the district

596
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 3: attorney that she's going to tell the truth that she

597
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,479
Speaker 3: lied and none of this really happened. That kind of

598
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 3: like knocked out the key argument of probable cause. But

599
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 3: instead of the judge ruling in favor of the defense

600
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 3: based on the recantation of Maxime in the fact that

601
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 3: there wasn't sufficient evidence to support the illegal detention, he

602
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 3: concluded that Maxine Bell's trial testimony is chewing, that her

603
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 3: recantation is false, and he rendered in his determination that

604
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 3: from the trial, she was a sympathetic and appealing figure.

605
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 3: Now she has gone into an immature adult, but the

606
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 3: extent of her disturbance is not fully described, so he

607
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 3: denied the probable cause hearing. So I had went back

608
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:33,959
Speaker 3: on a clatteral attack to argue against the judge's fact findings,

609
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 3: and I argued at pro say. So I argued that

610
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 3: obviously she had matured into a disturbed adult. But this girl,

611
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 3: after she testified against me I was convicted, she was

612
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 3: home crying thinking about what she did during trials. She

613
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 3: was pregnant and she had a baby boy, and three

614
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 3: months after her baby was born, the baby just died.

615
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 3: So she thought God was punishing her for what she

616
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 3: did to me. She tried to commit suicide. She had

617
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 3: to seek psychiatric care. So I said, obviously there is

618
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 3: some disturbance in this girl, but all that disturbance relates

619
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 3: to her given false testimony against me. And I asked

620
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 3: the judge if he would order that a professional in

621
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 3: that psychiatric field can examine her and assist the judge

622
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 3: in this fact finding determination, because this judge concluded that

623
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 3: her disturbance is not fully described.

624
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 2: He denied that too, and you received denial after denial,

625
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 2: first as a pro Salytican filing a federal Habeast and

626
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 2: then even with the help of Censurion ministries, and the

627
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 2: denials continued through nineteen ninety six, which is when you

628
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 2: became eligible for parole.

629
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 1: Of course, the Parole Board denied you I think it

630
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 1: was five times because you refuse to admit guilt and

631
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,800
Speaker 1: register as a sex offender. And later the Department of

632
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,720
Speaker 1: Corrections went so far as to impose policies that further

633
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: punished you for your refusal to admit guilt, and in

634
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: response to that, you took them to court with a

635
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 1: compelling argument, which was that since you swore on the

636
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: Bible and proclaimed your innocence at trial, for them to

637
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 1: penalize you and discriminate against you if you didn't break

638
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 1: that oath, that sounds like a violation of your right

639
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: to religion, and a judge determined that you had a

640
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,399
Speaker 1: constitutional question of law that was entitled to review. It's

641
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:23,280
Speaker 1: actually brilliant. Meanwhile, you had also been pursuing DNA testing,

642
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:25,359
Speaker 1: and in two thousand and six the Sevin County DA

643
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 1: started a DNA review project to look at old cases

644
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: that had biological evidence that previously couldn't be tested, and

645
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: so it finally looked like this could get you around

646
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: the barrel board entirely.

647
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 3: They tested my DNA against the fingernail scrapings that they found.

648
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 3: There was a male profile and two females, but the

649
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:50,359
Speaker 3: male profile did not match me. But at that time

650
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 3: they didn't tell me that. And when my attorney, Harold Seligman,

651
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 3: looked into it for me, they wrote me a letter

652
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 3: telling me that they haven't got a decision yet. They

653
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 3: haven't heard nothing yet, but when they do, they will

654
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 3: notify me and that I go to the parole board

655
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 3: and I will be released in two thousand and six.

656
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 3: Now I go to the parole board and I maintain

657
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 3: my innocence. I refuse to take a sex offense. My

658
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 3: stance don't change. They released me from prison, but they

659
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 3: labelize me as a sexual predator, and they sent me

660
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 3: back to the community with that stigma. Then they might

661
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 3: my life twice as hard to transition because of that

662
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 3: stigma for the next twelve years. All that time, my

663
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 3: release from prison wasn't nothing but a transfer to another institution.

664
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 2: Like a bigger prison.

665
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 3: They're the bigger picture of my life was institutionalized.

666
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 2: I read an incredible quote from you, Keith.

667
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 1: Somebody must have asked you about why you refuse to

668
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: me guilt, and it probably would have opened the prison

669
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 1: doors and set you home, right, I would have you

670
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: would have been paroled earlier. And you said, I refuse

671
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: to let them do to me as a man what

672
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 1: they did to me as a boy. I mean that

673
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 1: hits hard. So there you are out in the quote

674
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 1: unquote free world, but unable to use the internet, to

675
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 1: live within a thousand or fifteen hundred feet of a school,

676
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 1: even try to rebuild your life, try to get meaningful employment.

677
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 1: All those doors are totally closed to you. So the

678
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 1: punishment continues, and then it gets worse again because, on

679
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 1: top of all the other indignities, that you were supposed

680
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: to pay a monthly fee to allow officials to monitor

681
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: your online activities. Okay, so with the money that you

682
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 1: can't make because they won't let you really get a

683
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: job because you're a registered sex offender, you're supposed to

684
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:47,240
Speaker 1: pay them to do the job that they're supposedly monitoring

685
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: your online activities. Okay, there's a whole lot wrong with that,

686
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 1: but we're going to jump to the next. So during

687
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: an inspection of your home, officials found that you had

688
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 1: been working on your niece's computer writing your memoirs. Right,

689
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 1: not doing anything wrong, the farthest thing from it, but

690
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: the computer had Internet access. Sure enough, they use this

691
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 1: as an excuse to send you back to prison for

692
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: a freaking year because you were trying to write your

693
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: memoirs on a computer that had Internet access.

694
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:19,879
Speaker 3: When you're living under these types of stringent regulations, you're

695
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 3: basically living the life of a slave. Irregardless to whether

696
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 3: they would have violated me or not. You know, it

697
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 3: wouldn't have made no different because I wasn't going to

698
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 3: stop fighting for my innocence.

699
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: No, you would not, And you were able to get

700
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: one of the one of the real greats in this

701
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: field to take your case. I'm talking about Adele Bernhard

702
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,439
Speaker 1: from the Innocence Clinic that Pace Law School and later

703
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,439
Speaker 1: New York Law Schools Post Conviction Innocence Clinic as well.

704
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: So she was able to get the courts to allow

705
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,439
Speaker 1: DNA testing and to confirm with Suffolk County already knew

706
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,879
Speaker 1: that your DNA was excluded from the fingernail scrapings and

707
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: the plastic pick found of the scene that, along with

708
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,720
Speaker 1: the nineteen eight nine state report criticized and the tactics

709
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 1: of Detective Rafferty and others, should have been more than

710
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,839
Speaker 1: enough to overturn the conviction. But Suffolk County still had

711
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 1: the confession, the false confession that was signed under torture,

712
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: police torture, and they argued that the nineteen eighty nine

713
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: report was little more than a quote unquote fishing expedition

714
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: and that the fingernail scrapings could have been contaminated, and

715
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: somehow that that was enough to get your motion denied.

716
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: And then next you went after the false confession, and

717
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: in order to prove that it was false, A Dell

718
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 1: got the renowned forensic pathologist, doctor Michael Bodden to assess

719
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 1: the autopsy and other physical evidence to show that the

720
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: statement they wrote for you to sign did not match reality,

721
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 1: That the pattern and spacing of the pick did not

722
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 1: match up to the puncture wounds. The punctures were in

723
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: groups of three rather than ten like the pick. And

724
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: in addition, some of the wounds were too deep to

725
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: have been made by the pick without the neighboring wounds

726
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: being equally deep. Now, how the wounds were made. We

727
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: have no idea and according to this alleged statement, needed

728
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: did you. But anyway, and also pointed out that without

729
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 1: bleeding around the wounds, they must have been made posthumously,

730
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 1: which contradicted the statement in which the stabbing happened before

731
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: she was strangled to death. Now you already had the

732
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:15,280
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen affidavit from Maxine Bell recanting, saying that quote,

733
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 1: I was scared of the police. This is a direct quote.

734
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 1: I was scared of the police. I believed I was

735
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: doing the right thing by confirming what they already believed.

736
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 2: End quote.

737
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 1: Then in twenty seventeen, that's when you found out about

738
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,320
Speaker 1: this insane Brady violation, with John Jones having admitted in

739
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five, before your trial and before a rape

740
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: the Jones committed in nineteen seventy six that he admitted

741
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 1: to being at the scene and.

742
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 2: That the pick was his.

743
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 1: Adele also obtained affidavits from witnesses at the party stating

744
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 1: that they had been discouraged from helping you. And discouraged

745
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: that's not a strong enough word, because we know what

746
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: these motherfuckers were doing. I mean, I forget my language,

747
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 1: but this is it's just sick. Then, in twenty eighteen,

748
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 1: Adele presented all of this to the new DA in

749
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,280
Speaker 1: Suffolk County, Timothy Sinny, who had just opened a Conviction

750
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 1: Integrity Bureau, And when the Suffix CIV did their own investigation,

751
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 1: they agreed with doctor Biden's findings, as well as that

752
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: the detective testimony about the fibers was also unsubstantiated. They

753
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: furthermore suggested that John Jones, who died in two thousand

754
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: and six, appeared to be quote and again I'm quoting

755
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 1: directly the most viable suspect in Sherise Watson's murder end quote.

756
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 1: And while they couldn't confirm the physical abuse during the interrogation,

757
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: they agreed that even in absence of that, the tactics

758
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 1: were psychologically coercive enough to produce a false statement from

759
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,439
Speaker 1: a scared teenager. And while Rafferty would only communicate through

760
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 1: his lawyer, his partner August Stahl, sat down for an

761
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: interview in which he stated quote that fucking blank did it.

762
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 1: So I don't think we need to say anymore about what,

763
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: unfortiately is not a surprising statement for Detective Stall. So finally,

764
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 1: it took forty four years of fighting forty four years,

765
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 1: but the Suffa County issued in order to vacate your

766
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 1: conviction on May twenty second, twenty nineteen, rightfully, so you

767
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 1: then filed suit against them and the State of New York,

768
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 1: settling in twenty twenty and twenty twenty one. Now, no

769
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:14,879
Speaker 1: amount of money could ever be enough for what they

770
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 1: put you through, But I'm glad that at least you

771
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 1: can live out the rest of your days and some

772
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,720
Speaker 1: you know, reasonable physical comfort and the comfort of having

773
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 1: your name cleared. Now, I'm sure members of our audience

774
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 1: would like to keep up with you, like I already do.

775
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: So what's a good way for them to do that?

776
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 3: You know, I'm not really on the social media. I

777
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 3: got on TikTok as a little you know, so I

778
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 3: did a couple of little skids on it. I plan

779
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 3: on taking some of my poems and then turn them

780
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 3: into skits and throw them out there.

781
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:45,760
Speaker 2: Amazing.

782
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: Well, I'm already following him at kt Bush five. That's

783
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: kt Bush like the plant five number five. We'll have

784
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 1: that linked in the bio. And by the way, you

785
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 1: mentioned your poetry, and I understand that you have a

786
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,439
Speaker 1: few books out, So what can you tell us about

787
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 1: all that stuff.

788
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 3: I just I had did a book, a poetic book,

789
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 3: Poetic Raised, Visioneering, Magnetic, and that was some of the

790
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 3: poems that I kind of wrote when I was in prison,

791
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 3: and it represents, you know, different stages of my development,

792
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 3: the transitions I went through. There were anger parts, they

793
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 3: were amicable parts, you know, just the different phases that

794
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 3: I went through. But I'm in the process so completed

795
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 3: the memoir. I just got to get it published. And

796
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 3: then there's another book that I had wrote on the

797
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 3: African American self reparation concept that I had kind of developed.

798
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 3: But I want to try to get these two books

799
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 3: out this year and you know, probably within months.

800
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 2: Okay, well, we'll put a link to it in the bio.

801
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 2: And now, Keith, we have a tradition here.

802
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: At Ron for Conviction. We closed the show the same

803
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: way every time, and it's my favorite part of the show.

804
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: And here's why, because it works like this. It's called

805
00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 1: closing arguments, and it works like this. Again, I thank

806
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 1: you for being here, taking your time and sharing your story.

807
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: And then I'm gonna turn my microphone off, leave yours on.

808
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna kick back in my chair. And listen

809
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 1: for any final thoughts you want to share with me

810
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 1: and our amazing audience.

811
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 3: Okay, first of all, you know, I got to give

812
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 3: the highest praise to my mother. You know she is

813
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 3: you know, she's my Earth goddess. And no one has

814
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:36,839
Speaker 3: fought on my side with me all the way, persistently,

815
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 3: even when I got tired, that she had motivated me

816
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:49,400
Speaker 3: and she was there to see me exonerate myself. And

817
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 3: I also know that my brothers and sisters never they

818
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 3: never doubted my innocence and was always there for me.

819
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 3: And there are family members who also supported me, friends

820
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:09,320
Speaker 3: and a lot of people in the community. But doing

821
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:14,919
Speaker 3: prison time also changed the way I see the world,

822
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,279
Speaker 3: and there were some of them prisoners who were my

823
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 3: teachers inspired me to grow, and I engaged myself in

824
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 3: movements that led to educate a whole lot of other

825
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 3: prisoners by teaching them what they need to learn in

826
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 3: order to improve themselves. Because it's not only the innocence

827
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:42,840
Speaker 3: that's a victim to the criminal justice system, but it's

828
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 3: the perpetrators who victimize that create the feeding of the

829
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 3: criminal justice system, and it eats all victimization. And I

830
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:56,319
Speaker 3: spent my time in prison wisely by investing in my

831
00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:00,359
Speaker 3: personal development and giving back and helping some of these

832
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 3: guys to change their lives around so that they can

833
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 3: return home as an asset as opposed to a liability.

834
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 3: But my journey was a difficult journey and it is

835
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 3: not one worth living again. But one thing I can

836
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 3: say that once I place my faith in God, which

837
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:32,360
Speaker 3: is very important to my spirituality, then I was able

838
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 3: to draw those things that represents God like righteousness right

839
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 3: people to me, and they helped me to open this door.

840
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:47,879
Speaker 3: So I'm eternally grateful not only to the innocent projects

841
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 3: with Adele and all the other people who fight for

842
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 3: the innocent, but for the integrity units who have the

843
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 3: dignity to stand up when something is wrong and say

844
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 3: that it's wrong. In that fight for your generation. That

845
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 3: makes it easier. So you know, there is a debt

846
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,919
Speaker 3: that I pay. My debt to the righteous, all those

847
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 3: who do right things and help us create a better

848
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,360
Speaker 3: world for ourselves in spite of the things that we

849
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:21,399
Speaker 3: go through. Because our world is balanced on polarity good

850
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,240
Speaker 3: and evil, and there's always going to be a battle.

851
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 3: So I'm glad to be on that right side.

852
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to

853
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 1: thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff Clivern and Kevin

854
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: Wardis with research by Lyla Robinson. The music in this

855
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 1: production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.

856
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction,

857
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast, and on Twitter at

858
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:58,359
Speaker 1: wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good on

859
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 1: all three platforms, and also follow me on both TikTok

860
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 1: and Instagram at It's Jason flam Ravel. Conviction is the

861
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 1: production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal

862
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 1: Company Number one