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Speaker 1: Questlove Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. What's Up?

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Speaker 2: This is Sugar Steve from questlof Supreme. Anybody who knows

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Speaker 2: this podcast is well aware that our interviews can last

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Speaker 2: for hours, so often we split them into two parts.

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Speaker 2: It also gives listeners a suspenseful reason to come back

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Speaker 2: next week or check their podcast feed for more episodes.

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Speaker 2: Back in twenty twenty two, we sat down with la

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Speaker 2: Reid for what became a rare three part interview.

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Speaker 1: Part one of La.

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Speaker 2: Read's three part QLs recalls his childhood in Cincinnati, playing

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Speaker 2: the Indianapolis club circuit, working with Midnight Star, and meeting Babyface.

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Speaker 2: This classic episode was taped in July twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 2: Please rate, like, and subscribe to this on your podcast feeds,

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Speaker 2: check back for new episodes, and follow our new YouTube

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Speaker 2: page at QLs.

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Speaker 1: You know good and well, you might as well get

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Speaker 1: some water. Dog. I'm gonna Memphis for all I can,

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Speaker 1: and you need some snacks or something. Bro. All right,

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Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, I was already told at the top

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Speaker 1: of the show, make.

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Speaker 3: This quick, quick on this one.

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Speaker 1: I'm going all right, ladies, ladies and gentlemen. Uh, this

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Speaker 1: is another episode of Quest Love Supreme. How are you guys?

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Speaker 1: That's nice anyway, if you know me based on the show,

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Speaker 1: you you know there's a particular type of interview that

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Speaker 1: I that we all love the nerd out on, and

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Speaker 1: this is no exception, I guess today. You know he

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Speaker 1: is former super executive chairman CEO of Epic Records, former

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Speaker 1: chairman CEO of def Jam, former president and CEO of Arista,

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Speaker 1: and also his own uh in print record not to mention, oh,

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Speaker 1: former award winning songwriter and producer and former drummer and

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Speaker 1: probably the most moisturized band of all time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, not to mention.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, y'all know me. It's gonna take forty

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Speaker 1: five minutes once I started reading off the accolades. Look

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Speaker 1: you already know it, man, like you literally know it.

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Speaker 1: Two occasions. This guy a girlfriend, This guy Ronnie rock

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Speaker 1: with you, don't be cruel. This guy into the road,

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Speaker 1: this guy I love should have brought to you home

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Speaker 1: last night, this guy not to mention the Axie sign.

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Speaker 1: Name him Tony Brason, Damien dam Goodie Mom, Jermaine Jackson,

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Speaker 1: us outcasts. I can name them all, ladies and gentlemen.

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Speaker 1: We finally have him. I feel like this is the

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Speaker 1: sequel to the baby Face episode. It really is.

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Speaker 4: Nah, this is the baby fake, the Baby Safe episode

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Speaker 4: that was breaking bad.

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Speaker 1: This is better call Sault exactly. There you go, yo.

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Speaker 1: This this guy is so legend that he even dropped

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Speaker 1: me from the label and took me back on my birthday. Yo.

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Speaker 1: I got dropped the morning of my birthday and came

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Speaker 1: back the night of my birthday.

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Speaker 3: Is gonna be a long one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, please welcome l A Reed, thank you, thank you. Welcome.

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Speaker 3: That's accurate, but well.

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Speaker 1: You know, dramatic. Richard Nichols was so maybe rich was

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Speaker 1: just using a Jedi mind trick on me to get

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Speaker 1: that I'm done. Rich woke me up for my birthday

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Speaker 1: and six in the morning, like a mirror, the brooch

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Speaker 1: just got dropped off. Def jam. I was like no, literally,

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Speaker 1: I was all depressed. And then like I we met,

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Speaker 1: didn't we? I called you up and I literally called

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Speaker 1: you up and I left the message. I was like,

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Speaker 1: come on, dog, it's my birthday.

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Speaker 3: Man.

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Speaker 1: Ah my god, that's my favorite story of all. Look,

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Speaker 1: every every artist has a CEO executive story, and I'm

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Speaker 1: glad that's my story because it could have been with

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Speaker 1: you hanging me out the window of my ankles or something,

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Speaker 1: or or any any other unsavory CEO story. How are you?

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Speaker 1: How are you doing?

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Speaker 3: I'm good, man, I'm good. I'm entertained already. This is

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Speaker 3: already fun.

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Speaker 5: So la where right now? Where are you speaking to

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Speaker 5: us from? I am in Los Angeles in the studio.

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Speaker 5: We have a studio in Studio City. And I'm I'm

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Speaker 5: I'm I'm in the studio, all right, my favorite place.

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Speaker 1: Dare we ask you what you're doing in the studio?

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Speaker 1: Is this top secret? No?

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Speaker 5: You know, I'm always digging and just I love the

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Speaker 5: idea of being around people. And I just have a

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Speaker 5: lot of writing camps and some writers and producers come

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Speaker 5: by meet with people. I'm just always looking for music,

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Speaker 5: you know. But right now I'm actually working on Usher.

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Speaker 1: And it's so good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is camp Usher time, Camp Usher. That's right.

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Speaker 1: Usher's tiny desk performance is probably a pleasant, well needed

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Speaker 1: jolt in the right direction of reminding people. And I'm

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Speaker 1: also I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that. Uh,

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Speaker 1: The versus Comedy Hour also played a part.

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Speaker 3: I missed it.

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Speaker 1: I heard about it. Comedy show history.

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Speaker 6: Needles to say happy to hear there may be a

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Speaker 6: Chris and Usher versus that is the dream four hours,

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Speaker 6: six hours, seven hours.

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Speaker 5: I think sometimes people should set those out. That's my opinion.

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Speaker 5: I don't think that. I don't think they're for everybody.

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Speaker 5: I think because I don't know.

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Speaker 1: The way that initially came to us, I wish it

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Speaker 1: would have stayed there, which was mainly about like two

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Speaker 1: producers working on beats at the same time, you know,

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Speaker 1: like the Buster and what Alchemists was the first one

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Speaker 1: or was it not the Buster Alchemist? The just Blaze,

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Speaker 1: Swizz and.

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Speaker 3: Swizz and ten.

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Speaker 1: That was first. Yeah, just Blaze and the Alchemists.

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Speaker 4: I remember, if we're talking about verses, how versus started,

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Speaker 4: that was.

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Speaker 1: Well, I meant the the pre versus there was like

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Speaker 1: there was this thing where like just Blaze and Alchemist

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Speaker 1: would do this back and forth thing. You don't remember

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Speaker 1: remember the yeah yeah right. But for me, I was

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Speaker 1: kind of hoping that that was more of the modus

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Speaker 1: operandi where it wasn't about you know, winner take all.

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Speaker 1: But I think, you know, once the pandemic started, people

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Speaker 1: just want to entertainment, and that seemed like a logical

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Speaker 1: way to keep people entertained, of course with the best

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Speaker 1: aless talent, but eventually you're gonna run out of a

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Speaker 1: list talent, right, and then what do you do.

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Speaker 6: It was supposed to be the classics too, It was

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Speaker 6: supposed to be like up into you know, a certain

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Speaker 6: age kind of era range. I felt like too, and

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Speaker 6: they kind.

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Speaker 1: Of well, now, just think it's finding somebody that has

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Speaker 1: had ten to fifteen notable hits, right, which is that

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Speaker 1: that was going to run dry quickly, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean?

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Speaker 5: And so that's funny because I don't always like to

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Speaker 5: bring light to it. But the truth is, we're hard

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Speaker 5: pressed to find artists with fifteen to twenty hits sacks.

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Speaker 1: That's hard, it is, and those that have it aren't

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Speaker 1: with us anymore, right, And so the well is, I mean,

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Speaker 1: we're in we're in a place right now where it's

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Speaker 1: diminished returns, and you know, you gotta let people in

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Speaker 1: the door. Like lately, I will say, for my own group,

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Speaker 1: you know, we've been having this sort of conversation with

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Speaker 1: the powers that be at least the last five to

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Speaker 1: six years, like you have to let us in the door,

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Speaker 1: Like who the hell is left? You know what? I mean,

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Speaker 1: so it's sort of like I'm not saying that there

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Speaker 1: was a begrudging all right, come in, you know, like

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Speaker 1: that sort of thing.

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Speaker 6: But could battle, y'all. That's kind of hard. That's hard anyway,

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Speaker 6: that's a.

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Speaker 1: We're not even built like that. Yeah, we we did.

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Speaker 1: We did get in, we did get an offer once.

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Speaker 1: I guess I could mention it now.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, please tell everybody, because you're totally the.

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Speaker 1: Roots and Goodie Mob had a versus on the table

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Speaker 1: that we weren't able to do and really wow, But

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean that.

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Speaker 3: Is I get it, though, I actually get it. As

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Speaker 3: odd as it is, I kind of get it.

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Speaker 1: Well, I meant, but you guys don't have rivals.

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Speaker 5: The truth is you don't have rivals because we don't

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Speaker 5: live in an erab for there's no black bands. First

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Speaker 5: of all, you're an only black band that and and forever,

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Speaker 5: so you you would actually have to go back and

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Speaker 5: battle like like cameos.

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Speaker 1: I would have actually we talked to our last episode

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Speaker 1: was with Larry. Amazing episode, by the way. No, I

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Speaker 1: think probably if it were to come down to that,

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Speaker 1: we probably would do like d'angela did, which is like

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Speaker 1: have roots and a whole bunch of friends come by

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Speaker 1: and so fun. Anyway, Jo, we're wasting time here, La.

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Speaker 1: What was your very first musical memory.

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Speaker 3: Sh first musical memory ever, like.

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Speaker 1: Ever, your first thought of music? What like what it

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Speaker 1: might be?

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Speaker 5: It might be a little hazy, but I think that

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Speaker 5: it was growing up Cincinnati, Ohio in the kitchen, small kitchen,

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Speaker 5: transistor radio in the window, and I think it was

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Speaker 5: It's My Party, and I cry if I want to. Yes,

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Speaker 5: I think it was that because for some reason I

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Speaker 5: remember that name, Quincy Jones. Don't know why, but like

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Speaker 5: I knew that name as a baby and it never left,

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Speaker 5: you know. I think it was that, or it was

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Speaker 5: something from Motown, right, like one of those dancing in

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Speaker 5: the streets.

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Speaker 3: So I can't exactly. I was very young.

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Speaker 5: But the one that, the one that got me though,

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Speaker 5: the one that, like the life changing moment, was when

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Speaker 5: I heard give the drummer some and and cold sweat

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Speaker 5: James Brown. That moment, like that was that the world stopped.

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Speaker 5: So speaking of Cincinnati. Oh, by the way, uh case

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Speaker 5: our listeners don't know. Not many people knew that Quincy

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Speaker 5: Jones produced Leslie Gores. It's My Party.

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Speaker 1: That's his very first, very first hit as a as

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Speaker 1: a pop producer. I was going to say that I noticed,

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Speaker 1: at least from what Bootsie told me and just from

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Speaker 1: observing that anyone who's in proximity of King Records and

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Speaker 1: their whole operation had their life changed, either as someone

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Speaker 1: that works inside of King Records or the studio or

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Speaker 1: the factory, or someone like Bouotie Collins did hung in

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Speaker 1: the alley way and just hoped maybe one day we'll

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Speaker 1: get used or something like that. Yep. But because there

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Speaker 1: is a five year of five to ten year age

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Speaker 1: discrepancy of you and Boucie's generation, right, how did the

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Speaker 1: James Brown Ohio effect? And Plus this also explains why

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Speaker 1: Ohio is the funk capital of the United States, because

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Speaker 1: I mean, basically, King Records moved their operations to Cincinnati,

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Speaker 1: and basically at a time period in which the ripple

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Speaker 1: effects started happening even in other cities like Funk just

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Speaker 1: spread throughout Dayton, Columbus, Cleveland, been all over. So just

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Speaker 1: as a ten year old, were you aware of James

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Speaker 1: Brown's presence in the city.

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Speaker 5: I feel like I didn't know it officially, but I

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Speaker 5: felt the presence. Like the first concenter ever went to

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Speaker 5: was a James Brown concert at the Cincinnati Convention Center,

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Speaker 5: and I hung outside and I met mace O Parker

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Speaker 5: and that that was a big deal for me, like

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Speaker 5: literally walking down the street outside the convention Center. And

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Speaker 5: also King Records was like a few doors down from

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Speaker 5: like my karate school as a kid, right, so I

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Speaker 5: would go to karate school, but when I wait on

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Speaker 5: the bus, right, take the bus home afterwards, and I

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Speaker 5: knew that that was King Records. So I never saw

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Speaker 5: a soul, but I would just stare at it. I

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Speaker 5: felt drawn to it. But then as I got like

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Speaker 5: slightly older, all the musicians in Cincinnati were all so

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Speaker 5: impacted by Bootsy and James Brown, but more Bootsy to

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Speaker 5: be honest, right, James was like the godfather of soul,

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Speaker 5: but Bootsy was our local superstar. So everything that Bootsy did,

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Speaker 5: we all, you know, aspired to do. Bootsy holds his

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Speaker 5: base this way, so you hold your.

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Speaker 3: Base like Bootsy.

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Speaker 5: Right, Bootsy wears these kind of shoes or he has

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Speaker 5: these Everything was about whatever boots he did was the magic,

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Speaker 5: you know, and he was like a god to us.

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Speaker 1: James Brown needed Booty more than Boots. He needed James

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Speaker 1: even though Bosi needed that guidance, right, Yeah, James Brown

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Speaker 1: needed that validation of you know, the next generation respecting him.

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Speaker 1: And this was the first song super bad, very first

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Speaker 1: song with sex Machine. Sex Machine was boosy, very first one. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: you got it. There's there's an amazing all right. So

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Speaker 1: they did that song in two takes and there's a

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Speaker 1: there's a really amazing rare dialogue for James, Like if

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Speaker 1: you listen to James's outtakes, normally it's sarcasm or I

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Speaker 1: mean not like mean spirited, but like if they mess

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Speaker 1: up or whatever, you'll you'll you'll you'll hear them like

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Speaker 1: chass Tis the engineer or something like that. But when

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Speaker 1: they do the second take of sex Machine, there's like

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Speaker 1: a forty five minute conversation of James just like you

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Speaker 1: hear him walking in the studio and tell them like

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Speaker 1: like being encouraging almost, like which is rare for James Brown.

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Speaker 1: But he's like obviously knows like these these six seventeen

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Speaker 1: eighteen year old kids are really really scared right now,

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Speaker 1: and he's just oh no, you got it, man, like

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Speaker 1: you can do it. And da da d D like,

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Speaker 1: which is oh wow, compared to the rest of what

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Speaker 1: James does, like on the other takes or whatnot. Like,

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Speaker 1: it's almost like he knew that he was dealing with children,

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Speaker 1: you know what I.

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Speaker 3: Right, So, yeahs some sensitivity and he was, yeah, that's great.

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Speaker 5: So you're a drummer sort No, you're you're a drummer.

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Speaker 5: I played the drums.

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Speaker 1: Well okay, well, first of all, your home situation. What

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Speaker 1: was your domestic home situation then, like, was your family

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Speaker 1: musically inclined? Your parents?

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Speaker 5: And my immediate family meaning my mother, my sisters. We

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Speaker 5: had a stepfather there. I never knew my father, but

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Speaker 5: we had a stepfather there. Occasionally he was there, I'm

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Speaker 5: being me and he was there. But they played music

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Speaker 5: because they had poker games all the time, right, So

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Speaker 5: they always played music and it was always kind of

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Speaker 5: a The weekends were festive. And eventually I became.

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Speaker 3: Like the guy to play the records at a very.

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Speaker 5: Young age, right, And I could play what I wanted

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Speaker 5: to play, you know, So I played slat in the

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Speaker 5: family stone, or I played war or I played you know,

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Speaker 5: whatever I wanted to listen to at the time. And

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Speaker 5: James Brown and you know King Floyd.

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Speaker 3: I remember that song.

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Speaker 6: Was it a situation where you where they say, let

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Speaker 6: me see what you got the first record?

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Speaker 5: No, it's just like the record player would stop and

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Speaker 5: they're all and they're all into the game. So I

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Speaker 5: just walk over and play what I wanted to play

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Speaker 5: and no one said anything.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So question for them for that music. And at

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Speaker 1: that time, would that be the equivalent of say, like

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Speaker 1: my nephew or my guy kids putting trap music on?

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Speaker 1: When say the adults in the room when he hears

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Speaker 1: something older, yeah, more Ray Charles.

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Speaker 5: So like they love Bobby Womack. They just like, you

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Speaker 5: know communications album. I think it was like they they

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Speaker 5: like they like things that felt more like the blues,

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Speaker 5: more soul, blues and and funk.

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Speaker 3: Was the music of the kids?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah for your people from Ohio.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, everybody's from Ohio. Yeah. So I have an uncle.

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Speaker 3: I had an uncle. He passed away, and he's a drummer.

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Speaker 5: He is a jazz drummer, right, And I remember him

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Speaker 5: taking me to jam sessions with him when I was

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Speaker 5: very very young, and he set up a set of

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Speaker 5: drums in his uh in his apartment and he lived

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Speaker 5: in an apartment, so you couldn't like, you couldn't really play.

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Speaker 5: So I was just playing with my fingers, but I

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Speaker 5: was playing James Brown.

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Speaker 3: That's the best I could. And he was like, that's

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Speaker 3: not music. Oh man, that's not music. Yeah, that's music.

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Speaker 5: Jazz guy, a jazz guy like that.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I got it.

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Speaker 5: So I knew early on, like, okay, I see, I

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Speaker 5: see what the purists are thinking here, you know, versus.

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Speaker 3: That was commercial. James Brown was commercial. And by the way,

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Speaker 3: your music, your real music college can ask your question.

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Speaker 3: So did Miles Davis? Now who ripped off? Who?

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Speaker 1: But h so what? Yo? So what Miles was first?

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Speaker 1: Pee Wee pee Wee Ellis? Yes, yeah, I went on

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Speaker 1: record to say that you know all those and actually

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Speaker 1: all those guys start alongside your uncle, as in, I'm

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Speaker 1: a jazz musician, but let me just make some money

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Speaker 1: on the side and play this pop stuff that I

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Speaker 1: don't care about, and then I'll have a jazz career.

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Speaker 1: And basically, Pee Wee Ellis would basically steal jazz arrangements

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Speaker 1: that he liked and incorporated James Brown. So the whole

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Speaker 1: cold Sweat is essentially what.

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Speaker 3: Right? Right? Okay?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and so that's that's that's weird for me

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Speaker 1: because like I know, and that's the thing where even today,

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Speaker 1: like just to fight my urge to not say something

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Speaker 1: derogatory to you know, another generation about their music. You know,

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Speaker 1: like for instance, like trap is about to be old

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Speaker 1: school and now drill is replacing that and right, and

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Speaker 1: so the temptation to not roll my eyes in the

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Speaker 1: air right is heavy, right, And I don't. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to be the guy that's just like performatively co

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Speaker 1: signing everything just to make me look young and me

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Speaker 1: look hip. Right. But you know, it's it's weird how

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Speaker 1: the timeline of music lasts, whereas something could be totally

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Speaker 1: foreign to you but seems like so innovative to the

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Speaker 1: next generation.

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Speaker 6: It's funny because they both share regional commonality too, because

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Speaker 6: a lot of New York is jazz musicians. Because my

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Speaker 6: dad is eighty something, he was a jazz musician. They

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Speaker 6: thought James Brown was country, just like how some New

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Speaker 6: Yorkers may think about trap and you know other music.

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Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, definitely that How old were you when

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Speaker 1: you felt that you really developed your drumming skills?

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Speaker 5: I was probably about fifteen and I actually liked the story.

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Speaker 3: I was in a choir class.

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Speaker 5: Interestingly enough, I was the only one in the choir

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Speaker 5: class that didn't have to sing.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 5: My music teacher was incredible. His name was Terry Brown,

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Speaker 5: and he was the choir teacher. And he had a

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Speaker 5: class that all the talented people in school were in

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Speaker 5: this class, all the singers, all the you know, the performers,

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Speaker 5: the guys that knew how to do the harmony. And

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Speaker 5: I was just drawn to the class and he liked me,

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Speaker 5: and he let me hang out in the class although

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Speaker 5: I wasn't in the choir and I ended up like

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Speaker 5: standing there for hours and hours day. But he had

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Speaker 5: a group outside of school called the Mystics, and it

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Speaker 5: was a three man singing group. It was Terry Brown,

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Speaker 5: it was Gerald Brown, and I don't remember the third

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Speaker 5: guy's name. And one day I'm walking down the hall.

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Speaker 5: I'm probably I'm about fifteen years old. I always carried

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Speaker 5: my sticks in my pocket. I bet you can relate

360
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Speaker 5: to that, right, I just always kept them with me, right,

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Speaker 5: And he stopped me in the hall and he said, hey,

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Speaker 5: you have you have a set of drums.

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Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, what are you doing this? Weekend.

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Speaker 5: He said, I want you to audition. Bring your drums

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Speaker 5: to Mary Junior High School. I forgot the time, and

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Speaker 5: I want you to audition. So I walk in and

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Speaker 5: there's three other two other drummers. I'm sorry, there's three total.

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Speaker 5: There's two other drummers and there's one guy.

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Speaker 3: This guy he has he looked like he looked like

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Speaker 3: he was going to kill it. He had a beautiful,

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Speaker 3: big afro.

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Speaker 5: He had a double bassed drum and the most beautiful

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Speaker 5: kit in the world. And I came in with like

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Speaker 5: this little ricky dick that's what we call it. I

375
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Speaker 5: don't know if you guys know I came in with.

376
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Speaker 5: I came in with the rinky dink kit right, with

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Speaker 5: like one crash symbol, one ride symbol, and some my

378
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Speaker 5: hats one time, and this dude intimidated me. But when

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Speaker 5: he started playing, he wasn't good, and I was like, oh, and.

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Speaker 3: We were playing.

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Speaker 5: I remember the audition like it was yesterday, and we

382
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Speaker 5: were playing the Ojays.

383
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Speaker 3: The Ojas had.

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Speaker 5: Backstabbers nine hundred and ninety two arguments. Yeah right right,

385
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Speaker 5: that's that's Philly music, right, And but it was my turn,

386
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Speaker 5: Like I knew those songs cold, and so I aced

387
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Speaker 5: it and I got the gig.

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Speaker 3: So that weekend.

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Speaker 5: The following weekend, he took me to Chicago and we played,

390
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Speaker 5: uh the weekend gig at a place called the Skyway.

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Speaker 3: And I was fifteen years old.

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Speaker 1: So you were just allowed to leave the crib.

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Speaker 5: My mom was okay with it, Like I talked to her.

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Speaker 5: She trusted my teacher, and we drove to Chicago from Cincinnati,

395
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Speaker 5: did two shows, and came back and had about seventy

396
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Speaker 5: five dollars. Mom was okay with that real money. Yeah, okay,

397
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Speaker 5: that was pretty good money. That was seriously some good money.

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Speaker 1: That was awesome money.

399
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Speaker 3: And that was the beginning that your daddy paid a

400
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Speaker 3: mere He paid what.

401
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,879
Speaker 1: Was my rate In nineteen eighty I made one hundred

402
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Speaker 1: dollars a night. So at the end of the week

403
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Speaker 1: I make six hundred dollars. Wow, I was rich for

404
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 1: like an elementary school kid. I want too many records.

405
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Speaker 1: By the time I became his band leader, you had

406
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Speaker 1: me somewhere in between. I think in the eighty three

407
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Speaker 1: I started at one hundred and fifty no, one hundred

408
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Speaker 1: and twenty five bucks a show, and then by the

409
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Speaker 1: time the very last show before I I you know,

410
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: the roots went to live in London. I think what

411
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 1: was I making man? Maybe like three seventy five. So yeah,

412
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 1: but like you know, four days with my dad. You know,

413
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Speaker 1: that made me very popular lunchtime. At lunchtime, you buy

414
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Speaker 1: me a cheese steak a bit like.

415
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Speaker 3: I love that.

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Speaker 1: All right. So in Cincinnati, are there any other notable

417
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Speaker 1: musicians or songwriters or your fellow crew that we would

418
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Speaker 1: know that was coming up with you at the time.

419
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Speaker 3: Most of them you won't know.

420
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Speaker 5: But the most important are the members of the group

421
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 5: Midnight Star, And that would be Reggie Callaway and Vincent

422
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 5: Callaway and Melvin Gentry and Bo Watson and Belinda Lips

423
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,719
Speaker 5: London and yeah, and they were serious. They were very serious,

424
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Speaker 5: and they were the first ones. Oh and there's also

425
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,159
Speaker 5: my friend Toughie who played he's a keyboard.

426
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Speaker 3: Player and he played with Zapp.

427
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 5: Oh okay, right, and he sung he sung the song

428
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 5: all right, It's going to be all right?

429
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Speaker 3: He sung lead on that. Right.

430
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:29,479
Speaker 5: So, so there was the Midnight Star crew and Roger

431
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 5: and the Human Body or Roger and Novels or Zapp

432
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Speaker 5: or however you might know them. That was that Crew

433
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 5: and the and we always felt that we felt the

434
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 5: energy of Parliament Funkadelic somehow, some way, Like I remember

435
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 5: going to Club Diplomat and it was a bunch of

436
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 5: musicians that looked like they might be in Parliament right right,

437
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,439
Speaker 5: and they smelled like they might be in Parliament, and.

438
00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 3: It was broken and they had a lot of groups.

439
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 5: There was one called the Over the Hill Gang, but

440
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,679
Speaker 5: they all it was a whole funk movement. I just

441
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 5: remember like it felt like they were on some tour

442
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:08,959
Speaker 5: because it was so many of these guys and they

443
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 5: just kind of stopped at that club played that night,

444
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 5: so we were around them all.

445
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: But the most.

446
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 5: Important and meaningful were Midnight Star and those are the

447
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 5: guys that we actually wrote with and they produced our

448
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 5: first album with my band and kind of taught us

449
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,479
Speaker 5: the art of songwriting.

450
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 1: Walk us through the process of what it took for

451
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: a band to get local gigs. Are you localized as

452
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 1: in Cincinnati only, or do you have it so that

453
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: you can go out of state and those types of things.

454
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 5: We were Cincinnati for the for the most part, and

455
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 5: then Indianapolis, which was one hundred miles away, and it

456
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 5: was kind of a strange phenomenon when when we started,

457
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 5: when we were ready to play in the club, music

458
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 5: started to change.

459
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 3: And this was probably like.

460
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:10,360
Speaker 5: Seventy seven something like that, seventy six seventy seven, and

461
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 5: Cincinnati was slightly more progressive than like Indianapolis, which was,

462
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 5: like I said, one hundred miles away and disco was

463
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:22,239
Speaker 5: taking over. So there were no gigs in Cincinnati. I mean,

464
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 5: we played the clubs in Cincinnati, like there were like

465
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 5: four or five clubs that we would play weekends. But

466
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 5: somebody turned me on to a club called the Zodiac

467
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 5: Lounge in Indianapolis.

468
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 3: This was life changing.

469
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 5: I drive, I drive to Indianapolis with my band members,

470
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 5: go to this club, see the club owner, and they

471
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 5: hired us to play six nights a week. That didn't

472
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 5: happen in Cincinnati. So now we're doing six nights a week,

473
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 5: four shows per night, like four forty five minute sets

474
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 5: per night, six nights a week night.

475
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 1: And you're doing one hundred miles each each.

476
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 5: Well, we literally ended up moving there. We got an

477
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 5: apartment there. Okay, we got the gig, went back, got

478
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 5: our gear, came back, stayed in the hotel for a

479
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:13,439
Speaker 5: couple of nights. Really bad cheap hotel. I forgot what

480
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 5: it was called. Maybe it was the Rego eight something

481
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 5: like that, right, or the Motel six You're in trouble, Yeah, yeah, right,

482
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 5: it was those. So we got a little apartment and

483
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 5: we ended up staying there for three or four, about

484
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 5: four years, playing clubs, and it went from one club

485
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 5: to the next and all over the city. And that's

486
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 5: where we really kind of learned.

487
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,959
Speaker 1: So what was it about that particular environment that was

488
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: a jackpop moment as opposed to you know, the city

489
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: that we would expect right wide, open door of music

490
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: to come from.

491
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 5: The difference was entertainment nightly, right, and so that meant

492
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 5: it was no longer a weekend thing.

493
00:28:58,760 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 3: That it wasn't.

494
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 5: It was which weekends could that could be hobby even

495
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 5: though we were serious, that could be deean hobby, whereas

496
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 5: six nights a week, that's your job.

497
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: Okay, So you're saying before seventy seven, a Monday night

498
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: party somewhere wasn't a thing. Thursday night party wasn't the thing.

499
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: Only Friday Saturdays and.

500
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 5: Sunday Saturday, Friday Saturday for the most part, right, and

501
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 5: then and then there might be an occasional wedding fashion

502
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 5: show something like that.

503
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 3: But but for the clubs were only weekends.

504
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: Uh.

505
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 5: And we went to Indianapolis and it was like it's

506
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 5: like seven or eight clubs that had entertainment every night

507
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 5: and all the bands were competing. And that's when I

508
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 5: met some That's when I realized that there was a

509
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 5: different caliber of musicians. Like in Cincinnati, everybody was funk.

510
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 5: We were all funk musicians and some people could you know,

511
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,959
Speaker 5: maybe jazz influenced, maybe a little blues influence, but we

512
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 5: were all funk. When I went to Indianapolis, which is

513
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 5: where Babyface is from, and Reggie Griffin you might know

514
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 5: Reggie Griffin and Rayferl Griffin his brother who's like this

515
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 5: incredible fusion drummer, right, and it was just a it

516
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 5: was an entire community of really really gifted musicians. I

517
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 5: realized then that I wasn't long for drumming, right. They

518
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 5: put us to shame. It was insane.

519
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 1: The thing is, I would think that if you're there

520
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: for the specific duty or task to make people dance

521
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: intricate arrangements, would that matter. I mean, unless you're doing

522
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: unless you're trying to do like get Away by Earthwood

523
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 1: and fire or something, I mean, right, and also what's

524
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: the rehearsal regiment like, and are you guys able to

525
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: nail every song that comes down the path?

526
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 5: It's cover songs, right, obviously it's all cover songs, so

527
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 5: you know, you know, you learn all the Rick James

528
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 5: songs or whatever is how you know. And we would

529
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 5: do that in the daytime in the basement, you know,

530
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 5: or or at the club, you know, when we lived

531
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 5: in the apartment, we would do it at the club

532
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 5: during the day. Eventually we got a small house and

533
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 5: we had a basement that we could rehearse in and

534
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 5: try to record. But yeah, it was still all you're right,

535
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 5: it was about dancing. But we have four sets, so

536
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 5: the first set you could do whatever you wanted to

537
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 5: do because the club wasn't crowded yet, so that's when

538
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 5: you could do experimental stuff and try out a new

539
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,959
Speaker 5: song that you may have written or or pretend to

540
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 5: be returned to forever.

541
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, you're gonna say return to ever

542
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: in like five seconds? Yeah, you know, right, I knew,

543
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: I just knew it.

544
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 3: We played at it, you know, we never play.

545
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: All right, explain one thing though, because I think for

546
00:31:55,440 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: every musician, they're either Team weather Report or Team Turned

547
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: to Forever. Now that's great in my real life. In

548
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: my real life, I've okay, So amongst a certain cowbird

549
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: musician friends I have, I've I've gone on record to

550
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: say that, you know, I feel like a bad Philadelphia

551
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: because I'm not exactly on the Stanley Clark band wagen

552
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 1: as I should be right as in Philadelphia, like the

553
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: song of his I love the Most is so on Him,

554
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: which is the heaven sent joint with Howard Hewitt. But

555
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: what was it about return to Because I was always

556
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 1: Team weather Report? But what was it about return to

557
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: Forever that had you guys' attention? Because literally everyone your age,

558
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: anyone born the latter half of the fifties beginning of

559
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: the sixties, there's a love for return to Forever that

560
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: you know. And no, no, no, I'm not even asking

561
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: as adversarial, because yes, I Lenny White, I love Chick Carea.

562
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: But I just never had someone explain to me what

563
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: was it about return to Forever?

564
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 3: So it was first it was Chick Corea.

565
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 5: It really was chick that that led that because the

566
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 5: way he composed it felt like obviously it was jazz fusion,

567
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 5: but there was this classical element.

568
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 3: And it was this classical element and.

569
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 5: The way that they would play, the way that they

570
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 5: would like play riffs together, you know, like everybody sort

571
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 5: of playing the same riff. You know, nobody else played

572
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 5: like that like uh. And they found a way to

573
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 5: do that and be and groove and be in the groove.

574
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: Uh.

575
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 5: And I was I like Stanley Clark, but not like

576
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 5: Jacko Pastory. It's like not even close for me personally,

577
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 5: I'm not gonna get in trouble for this, but I'm

578
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 5: I'm team weather Reporting. That conversation like easy, easily and

579
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 5: Joe Zawana was way more soulful than like than Chick Korea.

580
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 5: So I mean he did mercy, mercy, mercy for cannaball.

581
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 5: I mean, this boy, this man is no joke. So

582
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 5: I'm really probably a Weather Report guy, except that Lenny White,

583
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 5: you know, was just so bad man.

584
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 3: You know. But if I had to pick, I couldn't take.

585
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 3: I couldn't. I'm glad I don't have to.

586
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 1: You said you mentioned having a band, but what was

587
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:24,919
Speaker 1: the band's name.

588
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 3: My band was called Essence.

589
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 5: My band was called Pure Essence at first, and and

590
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 5: pure essence was it was some kind of take on Stylistically,

591
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:41,399
Speaker 5: it was somewhere between sliding the family Stone, earth Wind

592
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 5: and Fire with the love of fusion music, not the ability,

593
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 5: but the love.

594
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: That was that was a great way to smooth it out.

595
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 1: All right. So let's let's move forward to your your

596
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: in Indianapolis now or you're in Indiana right. How did

597
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 1: you How did you meet Babyface?

598
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 5: So he had a band. He was in a band

599
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 5: called Manchild. Yeah, and they were really good and they

600
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 5: were like stars.

601
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 1: Man.

602
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 5: Everybody in the group was like looked like they was

603
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 5: six foot and and and weighed one hundred and fifty pounds.

604
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,399
Speaker 5: They looked like just like everybody in the band looked

605
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,399
Speaker 5: like Mick Jagger. I mean, there's a fox start. Look

606
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 5: at these guys. Man and Kenny was in the band.

607
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 5: It's a guitar player. I didn't meet them when we

608
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 5: when we were in I didn't meet him when we

609
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 5: had the band Essence, my first band. I literally met

610
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 5: him after we started the group the deal, right, because

611
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 5: a quick story was we sort of ran my band

612
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 5: Essence kind of ran out of gas. We got became complacent,

613
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 5: we didn't renew we didn't refresh, and eventually we kind

614
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:05,280
Speaker 5: of got kicked off the circuit. And this club owner,

615
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:07,879
Speaker 5: I got to tell you this. This club owner tell

616
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,879
Speaker 5: me his name is Walt Manning. He owns a club

617
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,720
Speaker 5: called the Night Flight. The night Flight is the hippies

618
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 5: club in Indianapolis. On one level it's a DJ and

619
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 5: on the lower level live band. And the deal was,

620
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,359
Speaker 5: if you can get people to come from the disco downstairs,

621
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 5: that's how you make your money. To give us a

622
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 5: small advance. But we would get the door and it'd

623
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 5: be like a thousand people upstairs and they play off

624
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,359
Speaker 5: the wall. They were playing down the summers. They were

625
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 5: playing like disco. It was in full full till and

626
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 5: we were downstairs and like fifteen people might come down.

627
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 5: Half of them would like the people that we knew.

628
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,879
Speaker 5: And we had a couple of weeks off. I went

629
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 5: to the club and asked the club owner, walked if

630
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 5: I could get in it, if I can get one

631
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 5: hundred dollars advance for my band so I could like

632
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 5: pay the rent and give my guy some food. And

633
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 5: he says, there ain't gonna be no advance because you're fired.

634
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,280
Speaker 5: And let me tell you why you fired. You fired

635
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,919
Speaker 5: because you guys suck your drop. You're boring. No one

636
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 5: comes downstairs. You need to read news, you need to

637
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 5: rip off a sleeve or die your hair or do something,

638
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 5: because all of this, this socially conscious thing you're doing

639
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 5: is completely boring. You're out of step with the times.

640
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 5: And I mean, he just read me man.

641
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,280
Speaker 3: Wow. I was like, WHOA, what year was this?

642
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:39,879
Speaker 5: This would have been seventy nine, eighties something like that.

643
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm like whoa.

644
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: And y'all were still hanging on to like got to

645
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 1: give it up, like songs from like nineteen seventy six.

646
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 5: Yeah We're still, Yeah, we're there, and and early Earth

647
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 5: Winning Fire like like the wrong Earth Winning Fire songs,

648
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 5: you know.

649
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 3: And this guy just read man.

650
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 5: And then he goes into cash redster and he pulls

651
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 5: one hundred dollar bill out and he throws it on

652
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,360
Speaker 5: the counter. He says, I'm gonna give you one hundred

653
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 5: dollar bill, but I never want to see you again.

654
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 5: And you don't owe me the hundred but you owe

655
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,240
Speaker 5: it to somebody, so pay it forward and get the hell.

656
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 3: Out of here. And fired us. He was drunk and

657
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 3: he was an alcoholic, right.

658
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,320
Speaker 1: Oh, I was going to say, that's the best firing

659
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:23,839
Speaker 1: I ever heard. I need to use that shit.

660
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, he gave me.

661
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 5: So I got the hundred dollars now and I go

662
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,280
Speaker 5: back and I think about what the man is saying,

663
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,240
Speaker 5: and I immediately knew he was right. I immediately knew

664
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:39,320
Speaker 5: that we had somewhere slipped, and I was like, Okay,

665
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 5: so I need to bust this thing up and start

666
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 5: all over. And that's how we started the deal, right

667
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 5: was So my bass player, his name is Ko, He's

668
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:56,399
Speaker 5: my best friend. Also, we let everybody else go. We said,

669
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 5: you know, Ko, Ko plays on all the records, Face

670
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 5: and Whitney and Bobby and all that shit. But he's

671
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 5: really incredible, really really talented. So he and I started

672
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 5: the band. We first let everybody go, say, guys, we're

673
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 5: going to end the band and it's just not working.

674
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 3: It's run its course.

675
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 5: So we went back to our hometown of Cincinnati, and

676
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 5: he and I just sett in either his mom's house

677
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 5: or my mom's house, and we just kind of thought about, like,

678
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 5: who are the most talented kids that we went to

679
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 5: school with that also had the presence of a star.

680
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 3: Like we started thinking about it differently.

681
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 5: We started thinking about it beyond like who could be

682
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 5: beyond talent? But that combination of talent and start them,

683
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 5: that's when that really sort of first came into my consciousness.

684
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 5: And so we picked a couple of guys that we

685
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 5: thought were really good and we started the band, the Deal.

686
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 3: We went back to Indianapolis.

687
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 5: Well, we sort of getting kicked off at the circuit

688
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 5: and I went to the club owner. I said, just

689
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,919
Speaker 5: give us a week, give us one week in the club,

690
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 5: and I'll show you because they lost confidence in us.

691
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,839
Speaker 5: And that week, oh, I left something important out. The

692
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 5: deal was a Prince copy band.

693
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 6: A copy band, not a cover, but just a copy.

694
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,439
Speaker 5: Stylistically like, we wanted to look like them, we wanted

695
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 5: to play like them.

696
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 3: We did some of their songs, we did some of

697
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 3: the time, some of.

698
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 5: The Prince right, and we were completely like Minneapolis kids

699
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 5: all of a sudden.

700
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 1: Right, So can I ask is you know? And it's

701
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 1: rare for me to ask someone who's actually of the

702
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: age at the time it's happening. But when he came

703
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 1: out like was it totally a this guy is just

704
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: of a different ilk than everyone else.

705
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 5: It was so obvious, Like I didn't even know whether

706
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 5: this records or hits or not. I didn't really look

707
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 5: at charts and all this stuff, right, but it was

708
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 5: so obvious that it was him and I was, and

709
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 5: also so Bootsy co signed it. I was looking at

710
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 5: black Beat magazine. I don't know, I forgot to know that.

711
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 3: Young he.

712
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:16,439
Speaker 4: Said.

713
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,800
Speaker 5: Bootsy said Prince is next. He said it in a magazine,

714
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 5: and I.

715
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 3: Was like, damn. I kind of thought so.

716
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 5: But when he said it, that was like the validation, right,

717
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 5: and there was no there was no turning back.

718
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,280
Speaker 3: Prince was the Prince was the king.

719
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,720
Speaker 1: I grew up an environment where he was taboo and

720
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: you weren't not even you weren't allowed to. Every adult

721
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 1: I knew hated Prince, right, So that just made it

722
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: even more like, all right, well let me see what

723
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 1: they're talking about. But I've just never been in an

724
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: environment with someone who is an adult or of the

725
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 1: age like teld the story of them seeing it and

726
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: being like, yo, I like this.

727
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 6: That's because you come from older music too, Because my

728
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 6: mother loves fucking Prince.

729
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 3: As soon as he popped out, Oh my mom told

730
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 3: me don't play that in her house.

731
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: Really, everyone thought Prince was the devil yo.

732
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, she's a don't play them because he had a

733
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 5: song called Ancestors Everything is said to be and she's like,

734
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:15,760
Speaker 5: you will not play that in my house.

735
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: Time out you, all right? So when Dirty Mind comes out,

736
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 1: Now here's the weird thing. I mean, when four You

737
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 1: came out, you know, he was in right on magazine

738
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 1: and all that stuff, and I have a sister who's

739
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 1: slightly older than me, so her and her high school

740
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: girlfriends were bored. And then you know, when the second

741
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 1: Galm came out with I Want to Be a Lover

742
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 1: and all that stuff, they were bored. Now the thing

743
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: is when Dirty Mind came out, especially in Philadelphia, I

744
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:49,360
Speaker 1: swear to you maybe I heard Uptown once on the radio,

745
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 1: right and besides right on magazine, I would have never

746
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 1: known what Dirty Mind was. So it's almost as if

747
00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: Dirty Mind never came out, and we went right to

748
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 1: the time and controversy and I didn't even catch I

749
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: didn't catch up on Dirty Mind until after Purple Rain,

750
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 1: when then it was like, all right, you got to

751
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 1: be completest and get everything. But Philly radio was not

752
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 1: playing anything off of Dirty Mind. And I think by then,

753
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,360
Speaker 1: like my sisters love of that type. You know, it

754
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 1: just sort of waned a little bit. So, as far

755
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: as I knew, he just disappeared all of nineteen eighty. Wow,

756
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 1: So you're saying that when Dirty Mind came out in

757
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 1: real time, Oh my god, it was guys got it

758
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 1: and totally understood and got.

759
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,879
Speaker 5: It everything about it, the way they dressed, everything, they

760
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 5: talked about, party up and had and all these songs

761
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 5: that we were deep, deep deep into prints, like deep

762
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 5: into it and just thought he was the greatest thing ever.

763
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: Like in my mind, it was a flop and nobody

764
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,439
Speaker 1: was with it, right He quickly.

765
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 3: Crazy recovered, So we didn't. You know what's crazy is.

766
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 5: At that time we were so into Prince that we

767
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 5: didn't judge whether something was a success or not because

768
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 5: we were just so blown away by his First of all,

769
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 5: he was playing everything and and and doing all that

770
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,800
Speaker 5: was that was as far as I knew, that was unusual.

771
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 5: And he was on this sort of punk thing, right,

772
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 5: and that was he was.

773
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 3: He was borrowing from new.

774
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 5: Wave and and incorporating it into this sort of funk thing.

775
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 3: He was just an original. It felt like an original

776
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 3: to me. Was he?

777
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 5: So was it done in a way because I also

778
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 5: know that, you know, Rick kind of had a missed

779
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 5: with or a miss with the Guard of Love record,

780
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 5: which I mean, I don't know if Big Time really

781
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 5: could have saved that record, but he was really Rick

782
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 5: James was trying to like really make a statement like

783
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,359
Speaker 5: here's my my star moment and.

784
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:54,720
Speaker 1: Really made a pop album.

785
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 3: Right.

786
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: And what's weird is I can't wait to get lee

787
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 1: Roy Burgess on the show because if you listen to

788
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:06,839
Speaker 1: the intro of Big Time, you can clearly hear that edit, like,

789
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,240
Speaker 1: I know, the Leleroy Burgess part of Big Time versus

790
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 1: Rick's portion, which is basically I see Leroy Burgess adding

791
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 1: that it's like an eight bar piano intro that's clearly

792
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 1: not Rick James, right, and then they slice splice the

793
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 1: rest of the song to it. But I don't know

794
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: for me, was was Rick?

795
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 3: Not?

796
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: Like in your mind, what was Rick James? Because he

797
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: too was trying to establish pump punk and all that stuff.

798
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 5: Rick was a hit maker, right, Rick had the hits,

799
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,839
Speaker 5: you know, Mary Jane and you and I and he

800
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 5: had the hits, but he didn't know to start him

801
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 5: to us, right, He was actually a hit maker before

802
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 5: Prince was, right, but we didn't focus on him.

803
00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 3: I don't know why.

804
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 5: In Cincinnati, Indianapolis, the local bands all played.

805
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:02,800
Speaker 3: Rick James songs everybody.

806
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 5: Some people played them better than others, but that was

807
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 5: in every local band in their set.

808
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 1: But you didn't look at it as innovative as I.

809
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 5: Think back on it, it was, But at that moment

810
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 5: I didn't think so. I thought it was just another

811
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 5: guy making hits. I just didn't I've never focused on it.

812
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 5: It was years later that I looked back on it

813
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 5: and said, wait a minute, this guy's insane, right, you know,

814
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 5: this guy wrote square biz like. This guy's like insanely talented.

815
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 5: Didn't really know it at the time. This didn't quite

816
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 5: catch it because there was something about Prince that just

817
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:41,479
Speaker 5: appealed to us more.

818
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 3: And you know what, I think it was like in Cincinnati.

819
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 5: We heard black music, but we also listened to rock, right,

820
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 5: We listened to a lot of rock music on the radio,

821
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:56,320
Speaker 5: like and so I think that that presence of punk

822
00:46:56,520 --> 00:47:00,120
Speaker 5: rock and that presence of rock and that presence of

823
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:04,080
Speaker 5: funk that blend Prince. Prince kind of did all of

824
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 5: that as one artist. Uh So, something about that that

825
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 5: really appealed to us.

826
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 1: Wait and now, now I have to ask your audiences

827
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 1: were they receptive to it as well? Because this is

828
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 1: also Middle America, it's not exactly New York. How are

829
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:25,239
Speaker 1: they adapting to.

830
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 6: Because y'all had the eyeliner too, right, I thought, Baby, say,

831
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 6: y'all committed, like, no, we.

832
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 3: Went all the way. I'll tell you, we went all

833
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 3: the way.

834
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:36,359
Speaker 1: His word glam not glam breed.

835
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:37,360
Speaker 3: That we were breathed.

836
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 5: You a breed, which minute the new the new breed,

837
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 5: the new breed? Right we were We were our generations

838
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,280
Speaker 5: version of whatever hip hop might have represented. Like we were,

839
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 5: but except you had to be really bold and daring

840
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 5: and audacious and brave to pull it off because you

841
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 5: know you're going to be criticized by everybody on a

842
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,359
Speaker 5: musician level, on a human level, right, people are gonna

843
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 5: question your sexuality everything. Right, You're putting a lot at

844
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 5: risk here to be a part of the movement. So

845
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 5: we went all the way. Eyeliner, the Jerry Curl, everything,

846
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 5: you know, the makeup. We we went crazy with it.

847
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 5: But but you know what's crazy is we didn't We

848
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 5: didn't even audition for our record label.

849
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 3: We never met our record label.

850
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 5: We literally sent a photograph and a demo of two songs,

851
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 5: body Talk, three songs Body Talk, a song called just

852
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:40,320
Speaker 5: My Luck their Face wrote, and a song called I Surrender.

853
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 5: We literally sent three songs and a photograph and we

854
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 5: got signed to dig Griffy.

855
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 3: No, we just we gave it to a man.

856
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 5: We had a manager, we shared a manager with Midnight

857
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:56,360
Speaker 5: Star's name was Pablo Davis.

858
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 3: And he went to turn In.

859
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 5: He went to Solar to turn in and no parking

860
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 5: on the dance floor, which was nice, big album, and

861
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 5: so we caught it. We caught a tail wind because

862
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,839
Speaker 5: in that meeting he said, Okay, I also have this

863
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 5: man at a Cincinnati called the Deal and he shows

864
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 5: them the photo, plays them the demo and we got

865
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 5: a record deal.

866
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: Do you remember what was on the demo talk.

867
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 3: Just my Luck?

868
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 1: And so the Body Talk that is the demo? Is

869
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 1: that the version we know? Or did you guys?

870
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 3: The recorded version is a little bit better.

871
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 5: It's a little bit better, like uh yeah, because you'd

872
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 5: appreciate this. The demo was all the Oberheim drum machine, right,

873
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 5: and then not that one, No, the first that was

874
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 5: one called the d X, the d M d m X, Yes, right, okay,

875
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:57,279
Speaker 5: and like it was looked like an Oberheim keyboard, and

876
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 5: so that the the demo version was purely that the

877
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 5: the recording had like real high hats and real crash.

878
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 3: That's the only difference. But it made it sound. It

879
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 3: sounded better.

880
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 1: Damn. I would like to hear that one, you know.

881
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 3: What I mean, Like you know that the d MS was.

882
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:22,840
Speaker 5: The real heart was like it's a whole different sound, right,

883
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 5: and and and it moved differently.

884
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:29,919
Speaker 1: You know, so you kind of skipped apart. Okay, how

885
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 1: did that version of the deal wind up being that

886
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 1: version of the deal with all the members that we know?

887
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:38,319
Speaker 3: Because baby yeah, I was trying to get back to

888
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 3: how I met face.

889
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 5: So so that band is playing the clubs and you know,

890
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 5: unlike my first band, pure essence, Uh, the deal is

891
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:53,959
Speaker 5: packing them, man, people are coming like this whole edge

892
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:56,919
Speaker 5: that we had and this androgyny that we seemed to have,

893
00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 5: and this music was, uh, it was a sensation, a

894
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:05,319
Speaker 5: little bit a local sensation. And we went from having

895
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:07,439
Speaker 5: fifteen people in the room to like one hundred people

896
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 5: and one hundred and ten hundred and fifteen hundred and

897
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 5: twenty like and we start having lines around it was

898
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 5: incredible that we had.

899
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 3: We were a local success.

900
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:17,840
Speaker 5: If that had been the Internet, we would have been trending,

901
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 5: like you know, we had a little buzz. So one

902
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 5: night I've met face Kenny at the time, and he

903
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 5: came to watch our band and his manager introduced me

904
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 5: to him. All I remember is us looking at each

905
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 5: other saying hi. And then fast forward a few months later,

906
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 5: a keyboard player friend of mine called and said, hey, man,

907
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:43,320
Speaker 5: Kenny Edmans wants to join your band.

908
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 3: And I said, Nah, he's not breed enough.

909
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 5: Wow.

910
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 3: I was like, nah, he ain't got the thing.

911
00:51:56,320 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 5: You know, he's like regular, he's normal, you know, you know, No,

912
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 5: he didn't have and so I literally passed on it.

913
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:05,760
Speaker 3: And then.

914
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 5: Midnight Star I hired their keyboard player, Bo Watson. I

915
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 5: didn't hire, I asked him to come in and play

916
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 5: a session for us because somebody paid for a session

917
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:20,359
Speaker 5: for the deal to record and I needed a keyboard player.

918
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 5: So I called Bo Watson, who had known from the

919
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:28,320
Speaker 5: Indianapolis music circuit, and Bow came over and he listened

920
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:30,239
Speaker 5: and he played on the record with us, and he

921
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 5: went back and told everybody in his bad like these

922
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:38,320
Speaker 5: guys are onto something. So the next day the manager comes,

923
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 5: Reggie Callaway, everybody comes and hears us, and they say, well,

924
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 5: we love what you guys are doing. We want to

925
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 5: sign you. We want to sign you to our company

926
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 5: called mid Star Productions. I was like, Okay, this sounds good,

927
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 5: this seems this is a little bit better than playing

928
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 5: at the club. Started liking this, So I go to

929
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 5: the studio one night to visit them. They were recording,

930
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:02,760
Speaker 5: and there's this guy. It's dark, he's in the booth

931
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 5: and I can't see the guy, but he's singing this

932
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 5: song called play another slow jam, this time make it Sweet.

933
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:11,879
Speaker 5: And he's singing it. I'm like, who is this boy

934
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:15,800
Speaker 5: with this voice? Just like this tender voice, like sounded

935
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:19,760
Speaker 5: so good. He comes out of the booth as Kenny Edmunds,

936
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 5: except he has got a trench coat, he's got the

937
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 5: Jerry curR.

938
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 3: I made his breath. He's completely breathed, and I'm like, Yo.

939
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:30,240
Speaker 5: This is the dude I just said he couldn't joined

940
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 5: the band, and I mean he now he is.

941
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:34,240
Speaker 3: He suited up.

942
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:40,960
Speaker 5: And I'm like, and the most gifted of anybody I've

943
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:44,360
Speaker 5: ever met. I never met anybody that gifted, right, that

944
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 5: could really like write a song and make a demo

945
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 5: and do all the parts and sing in the background,

946
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 5: and and the lyrics.

947
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 3: Were like like really poetry, I know. Let anybody like him.

948
00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:59,319
Speaker 1: Was a raincoat and some underwear and the.

949
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 5: Jerry girl, Yes I had glasses.

950
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 1: You know.

951
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 5: That was it, man, And that's how we that's how

952
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 5: that version of the band. So I asked him to

953
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 5: join the band, and uh, he said, what will I do?

954
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 5: I said, well, I'd like you to be the guitar player,

955
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:25,919
Speaker 5: keyboard player and and be a writer and like co produced. Damn,

956
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 5: but you can't sing because we have to lead singers.

957
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:32,240
Speaker 5: And he was like okay.

958
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 3: So we went.

959
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:36,720
Speaker 5: We went, made all our demos, got a recording contract

960
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:39,440
Speaker 5: with Solo Records, and uh, he didn't sing on the

961
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:40,439
Speaker 5: first album.

962
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 3: Wow, that changed.

963
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:44,440
Speaker 1: That was a flex? Was that you said that?

964
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:45,840
Speaker 6: When he said okay, you know, in the back of

965
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:48,320
Speaker 6: his mind was like you'll be back.

966
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 3: He was already set on doing a solo album.

967
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 5: Honestly, even though he was in our band, he was

968
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 5: already in his mind, I'm going to be a solo artist.

969
00:54:57,080 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 3: All right.

970
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 1: So look, I mean we've had everyone on the show,

971
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 1: including non Solar signees. One of y'all are going to

972
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 1: tell me a real damn story about grif All right, man,

973
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 1: but I got you.

974
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:22,400
Speaker 3: Ask the ques, come on, talk to me, talk to

975
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:25,960
Speaker 3: what was about? What was outside?

976
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 1: We outside? First of all, you're you're you were in Indiana.

977
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 1: You're eventually gonna have to go to Los Angeles. Talk

978
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:35,359
Speaker 1: about the move to that. But this is the thing,

979
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 1: is I keep hearing like these nearest sub night stories

980
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 1: of don't mess with Dick Griffy. What was Dick Griffy like?

981
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:51,320
Speaker 5: So the first time I met him, my first phone

982
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:54,840
Speaker 5: call after we put our record out, put out Body

983
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 5: Talk and it's starting to climb the charts, and he

984
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 5: calls our house. I never met the man, he said,

985
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:06,759
Speaker 5: whoever answer, He says, let me speak to Antonio. That's

986
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:08,400
Speaker 5: how he talked. By the way, I can imitate him

987
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 5: really good. So I pick up the phone. Antonio, Dick Griffy,

988
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:18,239
Speaker 5: the record that Body Talk, the records a smash, right,

989
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 5: and I just wanted to welcome you to the label.

990
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 5: Everything was like kind of right.

991
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:27,480
Speaker 3: So I went.

992
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 5: So after that, fast forward, I go to LA and

993
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 5: I meet him and I go into his office with

994
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 5: Reggie Callaway because we just mixed our album, went to

995
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:39,360
Speaker 5: turn it in and I meet him and him, but

996
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 5: I was asided.

997
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:41,840
Speaker 3: I was just like the kid in the band.

998
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:45,839
Speaker 5: It was Reggie Callaway and Dick Griffy's meeting, and Dick

999
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 5: said he wanted certain things to happen on the record,

1000
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:50,719
Speaker 5: and Reggie was like, no, we're not doing that.

1001
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 3: So I immediately saw you.

1002
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:56,879
Speaker 1: Give me an idea of what his idea of what?

1003
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,400
Speaker 5: What did he want? I don't remember what he wanted, like,

1004
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 5: I don't remember, but he.

1005
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 1: Was giving creative advice.

1006
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:08,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, creative advice. It was really creative, very like he's yes,

1007
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 3: ok he was.

1008
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:13,000
Speaker 1: But more than in that CEO way of that's a hit,

1009
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:15,320
Speaker 1: that's not a hit. What do you say, like the

1010
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:18,680
Speaker 1: vocals it too loud, or I don't like those drums, or.

1011
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 5: More like this is a hit versus or you should

1012
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 5: try this producer, or you should try this songwriter, or

1013
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 5: you know, putting Leon Silvers with Chalamar or like that

1014
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 5: kind of stuff. Okay, Yeah, he was good. He was

1015
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 5: really good. So so my first real encounter, my first

1016
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 5: real encounter was first album comes out, second album. It's

1017
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 5: time to make the second album, and we make it.

1018
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:56,280
Speaker 5: We make the album in Cincinnati, in Columbus, Ohio, the studio,

1019
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:01,440
Speaker 5: and we sent demos into Dick Griffy and he liked

1020
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:05,600
Speaker 5: some stuff, some stuff. He questioned. He had a particular

1021
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 5: fondness for Kenny because Kenny would sing on demos and

1022
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 5: he was like, he thought he was really incredible. So

1023
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 5: the first, my first encounter was this song called Sweet

1024
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:21,520
Speaker 5: November that Babyface did for the deal, right, and how.

1025
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 1: M did that? First?

1026
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:27,040
Speaker 5: I forgot yeah, yeah, okay, And so it's on the

1027
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 5: demo and Dick Griffy hears it. He says, who is

1028
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:35,200
Speaker 5: that singing Sweet November? I said, that's Kenny. I want

1029
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 5: that on the album. I said, well, we had a problem.

1030
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 5: I said, what's the problem. But the problem is that

1031
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 5: we made a deal when we started the group that

1032
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 5: our two lead singers, Carlos and d would do all

1033
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 5: the vocals on the album. That's Kenny singing. And he

1034
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 5: was like, well, that's a stupid deal. And you put

1035
00:58:57,880 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 5: that song on the record or ain't gonna be no record?

1036
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 1: Oh?

1037
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 3: I got it, Kenny, your songs on the album? You said,

1038
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 3: Tweet November maybe the album? Right. So that was my

1039
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:12,120
Speaker 3: first sort of encounter.

1040
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 1: How are you taking the unofficial I guess you're now

1041
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:20,919
Speaker 1: the figurehead, the father of the group.

1042
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:24,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I kind of always was. I don't know. It

1043
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 3: was my idea to go get everybody.

1044
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 5: I put it all on my shoulders and said, you know,

1045
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:33,520
Speaker 5: if you guys rock with me, I'll do my best

1046
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:34,160
Speaker 5: to take care of you.

1047
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:36,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, it seems like you from as you when you're

1048
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 4: hearing this about you now, it makes sense that you

1049
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,080
Speaker 4: were the one that kind of could bridge the gap

1050
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 4: between the business and the creative, Like you knew how

1051
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 4: to talk to both sides.

1052
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 3: I tried to.

1053
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, because I had to negotiate with the club

1054
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 5: owners right, you know, for pay and when they wanted

1055
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 5: to deduct expenses, and you know, I had to.

1056
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 3: I had to do the tough guy work. But and

1057
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 3: they trusted me.

1058
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 5: You know, all of us went to high school together,

1059
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:07,680
Speaker 5: by the way, except for Babyface was in Indianapolis. But

1060
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 5: the rest of the band we all went to high

1061
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:11,880
Speaker 5: school together. We were all in that choir class with

1062
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 5: mister Brown and you know, so we were all really

1063
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 5: like good friends and grew up together in the same neighborhood.

1064
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 3: So there was a trust factor there.

1065
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:27,080
Speaker 1: Since you're talking about the the Material Things album.

1066
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know that album. I'm so impressed with you.

1067
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 5: Man, I just got to tell you, I never met

1068
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 5: anybody with all of us. Yeah, but my my, my

1069
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:48,840
Speaker 5: question about Material Things is, and I always I don't

1070
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:51,920
Speaker 5: know why it is, but the.

1071
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:55,840
Speaker 1: Tom tom programming. I never heard a song in which

1072
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 1: the kick drum and the tom toms had to compete

1073
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:02,560
Speaker 1: with the each other mix white, So I always wanted

1074
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:03,160
Speaker 1: to know.

1075
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 3: All that stuff, right, who gets.

1076
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 1: The final word on a final mix? Because? Okay, when

1077
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:15,080
Speaker 1: I was younger, material things irked me because I was like, Yo,

1078
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:18,600
Speaker 1: those tom Toms are way too loud for this song.

1079
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:23,640
Speaker 1: As I got used to hearing it in my older age,

1080
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:27,200
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, well, you know, I'm I

1081
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 1: can see being innovative, but like, who who back for

1082
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:34,840
Speaker 1: those records? Was the Callaway brothers that were leaning on

1083
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:37,479
Speaker 1: the production? Was it were you guys allowed a word

1084
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:38,320
Speaker 1: in edgewise?

1085
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:39,440
Speaker 3: Like?

1086
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:43,200
Speaker 1: Just as far as structuring the albums full.

1087
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 5: Disclosure, The first album, called Street Beat, was completely produced

1088
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:50,680
Speaker 5: by Reggie Calloway and the songs were co written by

1089
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 5: the members of Our band and members of Midnight Star. Okay,

1090
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 5: when it was time to make the second album, Material Things,

1091
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:05,240
Speaker 5: we had fallen out and Callaway Us and Midnight Start

1092
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 5: we kind of falling out and Reggie didn't want to

1093
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:10,080
Speaker 5: produce the second album.

1094
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 3: So Dick Griffy said you produce it. So it was

1095
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 3: on me.

1096
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 1: I'm like, so me, Reggie didn't want to produce it,

1097
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:18,480
Speaker 1: or you guys didn't want Reggie to produce it.

1098
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 5: We wanted Reggie, but Reggie didn't want to do it,

1099
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 5: and I didn't know why. I thought there was some

1100
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:29,040
Speaker 5: It probably had something to do money. Something He never

1101
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 5: said to me, like I don't want to produce your record,

1102
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 5: but it felt business y.

1103
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 1: Did he have that option?

1104
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:35,960
Speaker 3: Again?

1105
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:39,400
Speaker 1: Y'all still tell me nice guys stories about Dick Griffy,

1106
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:42,760
Speaker 1: But does Reggie Callaway have an option to mess up

1107
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:44,600
Speaker 1: the money by saying, you know what, I'm not going

1108
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:45,800
Speaker 1: to produce the second album?

1109
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:50,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, because he and Dick Griffy visited my apartment in

1110
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 5: Cincinnati and we played them demos that we worked on,

1111
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:57,440
Speaker 5: and they collectively decided which songs we should record. So

1112
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 5: he Dick gave him a past. Yeah, he let h

1113
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 5: He let him sit it out. So Kenny and I

1114
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:10,080
Speaker 5: like co produced together. So all those decisions, loud ass

1115
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:14,680
Speaker 5: tom songs, too fast or that's all me and Kenny

1116
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:18,280
Speaker 5: producing for the very first time in our lives and

1117
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:23,960
Speaker 5: having following a hit record that Reggie produced. Now it's

1118
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:29,520
Speaker 5: on us, and it was it was a complete stiff. Wow,

1119
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:31,400
Speaker 5: it was a complete stiff.

1120
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 6: That's a good lesson for class.

1121
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:36,320
Speaker 1: So that's that's weird. It's weird for me, all right.

1122
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:39,120
Speaker 1: So here this is what I'm just learning. And you know,

1123
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:43,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess I alluded to the stuff I'm

1124
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:49,960
Speaker 1: working on past Summer's Soul, but currently having made an

1125
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 1: official announcement, because you know, I will say that there

1126
01:03:53,800 --> 01:04:00,960
Speaker 1: was a popular dance show of the seventies and maybe

1127
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:07,280
Speaker 1: other decades of which I'm learning that I'm learning that

1128
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:15,960
Speaker 1: the host of said dance show has relationships with different

1129
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:23,720
Speaker 1: CEOs and no matter what the state of the record

1130
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 1: is on the outside world, because there's songs that was

1131
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 1: played on this show so many times that I would

1132
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:34,160
Speaker 1: instantly thought, oh, that's a hit one of them, which

1133
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:38,760
Speaker 1: being material things like all of nineteen eighty four is

1134
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:43,640
Speaker 1: season Like if you get four spots on the most

1135
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:47,120
Speaker 1: important dance portion of that show, then to me, that

1136
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 1: was like, oh, you have a bona fide hit. And

1137
01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:52,680
Speaker 1: it was only later that I figured out that material

1138
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:57,880
Speaker 1: things didn't get the same push that body talk in.

1139
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:07,000
Speaker 5: You know, It's exactly. It simply wasn't good. It wasn't good.

1140
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:11,280
Speaker 1: Were you guys scared and were you afraid of getting dropped?

1141
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:12,720
Speaker 3: No?

1142
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:17,080
Speaker 5: I didn't even think about it. You know, by the way,

1143
01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:19,280
Speaker 5: I've been dropped and fired a lot of times. I

1144
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:23,120
Speaker 5: never think about it, right, So.

1145
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:24,560
Speaker 6: This wasn't the first time.

1146
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:26,480
Speaker 3: I just got fired from.

1147
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 5: I just got fired from the Knife Flight, right, So yeah,

1148
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:31,640
Speaker 5: I'm meaning to it.

1149
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:33,520
Speaker 6: You know, I love it. You ain't nobody till you

1150
01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:36,240
Speaker 6: get fired from somewhere, that's what you say.

1151
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:39,360
Speaker 5: But no, no, we didn't think about getting dropped. All

1152
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:43,600
Speaker 5: I thought about was damn this record. Just I couldn't

1153
01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:45,440
Speaker 5: get it right, man, I couldn't get it right. I

1154
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:48,080
Speaker 5: just couldn't get it right. I tried so many times,

1155
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 5: you know, because the studio, I mean studio wasn't cheap,

1156
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:53,520
Speaker 5: but we had it on lock so we could go

1157
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:56,680
Speaker 5: in and mix it, press and acetate.

1158
01:05:56,240 --> 01:05:57,800
Speaker 3: Go to the club. Played at the club.

1159
01:05:58,200 --> 01:05:59,960
Speaker 5: It didn't sound right, Well, go back and try to

1160
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:03,680
Speaker 5: a couple of days and we tried everything, and then

1161
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:06,720
Speaker 5: when we thought we had it right and we turned

1162
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:10,240
Speaker 5: it in, the label apparently agreed because they made it

1163
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 5: the single and it just didn't work, and it was

1164
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:17,000
Speaker 5: just embarrassing more than anything. But it also put a

1165
01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:21,560
Speaker 5: fire in all of us, and I would say particularly

1166
01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:24,320
Speaker 5: myself and Kenny. It really put a fire into us

1167
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:28,440
Speaker 5: that and we're competitive people, so we were like, we

1168
01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:33,440
Speaker 5: can't let Midnight Start be responsible for our success and

1169
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:34,040
Speaker 5: then when.

1170
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 3: We get the shot, we blow it right. Let's get

1171
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:39,360
Speaker 3: to work.

1172
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:43,360
Speaker 1: All right, ladies and gentlemen, I know you don't like

1173
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:45,880
Speaker 1: this when this happens, but you know we got more

1174
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:48,120
Speaker 1: in store for you. To stay tuned for two more

1175
01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:51,000
Speaker 1: episodes of this epic Question of Supreme with the Great

1176
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:53,919
Speaker 1: La Reid while you had it. Feel free to check

1177
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 1: out our other LS episode with Babyface as well. All Right,

1178
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:15,320
Speaker 1: see y'all next time. What's Love Supreme is a production

1179
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:22,800
Speaker 1: of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the

1180
01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

1181
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:27,160
Speaker 1: favorite shows.