WEBVTT - Baratunde Thurston (Part 2)

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<v Speaker 1>You're right. Love is in the accommodation of where people

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<v Speaker 1>are out in their journey, and it is amazing when

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<v Speaker 1>you see them hang out and help lift you up,

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<v Speaker 1>or just hang out and wait, I mean you and

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<v Speaker 1>I could basically distill all of this into like really

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<v Speaker 1>cool fridge magnets. I was thinking T shirts, but productizing regardless. Definitely,

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<v Speaker 1>for sure, we could definitely like monetize our shared philosophy,

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<v Speaker 1>which is cool. Which is the point of life? I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's the point of philosophy. Yeah, certainly, money is

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<v Speaker 1>definitely the point of philosophy. I think the Plato missed it.

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<v Speaker 1>He was too busy talking about, you know, the tyranny

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<v Speaker 1>of democracy. You really need to be focusing on. Like, Yo,

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<v Speaker 1>how can I make some T shirts for the same

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<v Speaker 1>miss of capitalist How about that way? Now, look at

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<v Speaker 1>the bright side there, buddy, be a human, don't go

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<v Speaker 1>into politics. Hello, I'm mini driver and welcome to many questions.

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<v Speaker 1>I've always loved priest questionnaire. It was originally an eighteenth

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<v Speaker 1>century parlor game meant to reveal an individual's true nature.

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<v Speaker 1>But with so many questions, there wasn't really an opportunity

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<v Speaker 1>to expand on anything, so I took the format of

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<v Speaker 1>Proof's questionnaire and adapted what I think are seven of

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<v Speaker 1>the most important questions you could ever ask someone they

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<v Speaker 1>are When and where were you happiest? What is the

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<v Speaker 1>quality you like least about yourself? What relationship, real or fictionalized,

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<v Speaker 1>defines love for you? What question would you most like answered,

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<v Speaker 1>What person, place, or experience has shaped you the most?

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<v Speaker 1>What would be your last meal? And can you tell

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<v Speaker 1>me something in your life that has grown out of

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<v Speaker 1>a personal disaster. The more people we ask, the more

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<v Speaker 1>we begin to see what makes us similar and what

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<v Speaker 1>makes us individual. I've gathered a group of really remarkable

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<v Speaker 1>people who I am honored and humbled to have had

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<v Speaker 1>a chance to engage with. In last week's episode, we

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<v Speaker 1>heard Barritende's answers to when and where are you happiest?

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<v Speaker 1>So standing on that beach, I felt grateful and overwhelmed

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<v Speaker 1>and significant peace. I hadn't felt that way up until

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<v Speaker 1>that point in my life, all in one moment. What

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<v Speaker 1>quality do you like least about yourself? My valuing of perfection,

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<v Speaker 1>my association of doing something wrong with being wrong? And

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<v Speaker 1>what relationship, real or fictionalized defines love? Fear? But that commitment,

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<v Speaker 1>and that then the knowledge that we're there for each

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<v Speaker 1>other and growing with each other, giving each other opportunity

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<v Speaker 1>to become more. That feels like love. Here is the

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<v Speaker 1>second part of our conversation. What question would you most

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<v Speaker 1>like answered? It is my favorite question. Ah Mean, part

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<v Speaker 1>of me is just like, what is cryptocurrency? Really Like?

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<v Speaker 1>I just love a good answer to that. But at

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<v Speaker 1>a bigger scale, I'm just like in the headspace of

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<v Speaker 1>of what we've been talking about a question I would

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<v Speaker 1>like answered. It's a how question. I think that is

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<v Speaker 1>exactly right, how asking how do we do something? Fix something?

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<v Speaker 1>It's do you see? I think that's it. I think

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<v Speaker 1>that I didn't even know that I had like this

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<v Speaker 1>easter egg of a trick and side the question, but

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<v Speaker 1>that's it. You just found it. Oh my god. I

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<v Speaker 1>feel like you need a prize. It's the type of

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<v Speaker 1>question that's almost more important than the question itself, because

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<v Speaker 1>that is it. It's it's how. Yeah, because I'm more

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<v Speaker 1>interested in movement and evolution and growth, and I think

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<v Speaker 1>there's a how question in me of you know, how

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<v Speaker 1>do we better embraced change? How do we collectively grow?

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<v Speaker 1>You know, we feel the potential so often we get

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<v Speaker 1>so afraid and we shut down. And there are these natural,

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<v Speaker 1>probably evolutionary things triggered in our chemistry and our biology

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<v Speaker 1>that make it very hard. Why are we scared? Like?

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<v Speaker 1>Are we scared? Because change often requires understanding another tribes

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<v Speaker 1>understanding of change, and that that is foreign and terrifying.

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<v Speaker 1>Part of me knows some of the answer. Part of

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<v Speaker 1>me will speculate irresponsibly, and that's fun. We are pattern

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<v Speaker 1>recognition machines. Creatures is a better word than machines. To

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<v Speaker 1>call us machines is probably not great, but we have

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<v Speaker 1>pattern recognition as a part of our approach right well,

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<v Speaker 1>with cabon based carbon based meat, meat covered meat. You

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<v Speaker 1>can be in that band with me. Yeah. And so

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<v Speaker 1>when something doesn't fit a pattern of experience, of visual recognition,

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<v Speaker 1>of emotional familiarity, that's different, different could be threat and

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<v Speaker 1>threats must be handled at a minimum with care, often

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<v Speaker 1>with aggression, to restore ourselves to a state of a

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<v Speaker 1>pattern that we understand and know and can be relied

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<v Speaker 1>upon to provide for our needs. And so some new

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<v Speaker 1>stuff comes along, and you know, we can respond with

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<v Speaker 1>curiosity and and we can learn to embrace the new

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<v Speaker 1>We might even find some advantage in the new and

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<v Speaker 1>then share that new thing with the rest of us

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<v Speaker 1>and have a new familiarity. But that's innovative, that's risk taking,

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<v Speaker 1>that's rare by default. I think our default, like factory settings,

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<v Speaker 1>sticking to the meat machine metaphor, is don't trust that

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<v Speaker 1>new stuff. It could be snakes, you know, saying it

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<v Speaker 1>could be bears with snake fangs. It could be a

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<v Speaker 1>pack of bears with snake fangs and poisonous farts. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>could be all this stuff is gonna just knock us

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<v Speaker 1>off our path, maybe even kill us or kill our kin,

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<v Speaker 1>which we are so connected to. So change of any

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<v Speaker 1>kind is the new introduction threatens the pattern, the familiar,

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<v Speaker 1>and so we are programmed somewhat to react suspiciously and

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<v Speaker 1>against that. And so the how question is how do

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<v Speaker 1>we do less of that? How do we do more

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<v Speaker 1>of the embrace of some new things. I don't think

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<v Speaker 1>we can get rid of that, because everything that you

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<v Speaker 1>spoke to it does feel like it's hard wade into

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<v Speaker 1>the meat machine. But the other beautiful part about being

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<v Speaker 1>human is taking an idea and adding it in and

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<v Speaker 1>expanding on it. So then maybe it's about focusing on

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<v Speaker 1>those things which embraces the little scared of the bad

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<v Speaker 1>part and encourages facing towards everything that could help our

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<v Speaker 1>evolution more smoothly and certainly more peaceably. It's peaceable. Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>That's such a great word. Peaceably. We don't say that

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<v Speaker 1>very much in the US, but I'd like that a

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<v Speaker 1>key to what you said. You know, we were acknowledging

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<v Speaker 1>the scared part right, And I think for anyone who

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<v Speaker 1>is pro change of any kind, I mean, this could

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<v Speaker 1>be technological change, it could be social change, it could

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<v Speaker 1>be you know, wardrobe change. If there are members of

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<v Speaker 1>our society who see the benefits of that thing. We

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<v Speaker 1>jumped straight to this is great. Why does it everybody

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<v Speaker 1>doing this? And we skip over the acknowledgement of the

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<v Speaker 1>human and all of us that is terrified. And if

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<v Speaker 1>we can acknowledge that name, that hug, that love, that

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<v Speaker 1>part right in some way, that might help us embrace

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<v Speaker 1>an upgrade ourselves. Because the how for me is also

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<v Speaker 1>such a technophilic person, like we upgrade our operating systems

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<v Speaker 1>all the time, like often without consent. You know what

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<v Speaker 1>I'm saying. I just said, I turn on the screen.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like updating that up? What do you got for me? Now?

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<v Speaker 1>What you got? Yeah? Why do our brains update? Can

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<v Speaker 1>we have updates for your humans? Oh my god? But

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<v Speaker 1>now I'm into like some tech dystopia where there's like

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<v Speaker 1>mandatory updates. Oh the black Mirror thing? Yeah, this is terrible. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>we talked ourselves out of that one. We were really

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<v Speaker 1>close to, like Shagula there, you know, I like it

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<v Speaker 1>was just there and then it turned into a dystopic calscape. Literally,

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<v Speaker 1>my reptilian brain took over and I stopped embracing the change. Gosh,

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<v Speaker 1>you we just saw it in real time. Just get

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<v Speaker 1>the upgrades. Many everybody's doing it, Oh, Bert, don't do

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<v Speaker 1>it terrifying. So what we're saying is it's not simple

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<v Speaker 1>cool cool. But I like the question that you asked,

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<v Speaker 1>and I like the most, particularly that it's a how question,

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<v Speaker 1>because how is useful? Yes, my mother used to say,

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<v Speaker 1>why should be taken out in the back and put

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<v Speaker 1>in a hole and have flowers grown on top of it?

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<v Speaker 1>But how? Wait, that's a beautiful way to describe murder.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, she was. She was full of making peaceable murder. No, no, no,

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<v Speaker 1>she could definitely like she could definitely make terrible things

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<v Speaker 1>sound incredibly kind of approachable and intellectual and and funny.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean that is terrifying. That should be taken out back,

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<v Speaker 1>put in the hole, but in the hole and flowers

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<v Speaker 1>grown on top of it. But what happens in between

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<v Speaker 1>the whole and the flowers smacked on the back of

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<v Speaker 1>the head with a shovel. Yes, she would love this conversation,

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<v Speaker 1>she would think it was hilarious. But how is how

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<v Speaker 1>has has possibility in it? Why it feels despondent and

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<v Speaker 1>kind of whiny? I think why is still useful and

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<v Speaker 1>just as you know, awareness is useful regardless of whether

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<v Speaker 1>you change things or not. To understand is powerful. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so there's value to it. I don't want to dismiss

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<v Speaker 1>why so much. But I'm a how person. I'm so

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<v Speaker 1>glad you're a person. I mean it's literally I just

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<v Speaker 1>with the name of my podcast is how to Citizen? Right,

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<v Speaker 1>It's not why are things the way they are? It

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<v Speaker 1>also makes citizen a verb, which is another doing aspect,

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<v Speaker 1>and not how to be a citizen? How to citizen?

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<v Speaker 1>So it's you who has to do it. Yes, I

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<v Speaker 1>love that what person places or experience most altered your life.

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<v Speaker 1>There's there's an interesting way to collapse that the answers like,

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<v Speaker 1>it's always my mother, man, I was like, well, I

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<v Speaker 1>could overthink this. I can imagine that. It's just it's

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<v Speaker 1>just my mother. She was the person. So much of

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<v Speaker 1>that influence took place in Washington, d C. On our

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<v Speaker 1>block where I grew up. My mother she was a force,

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<v Speaker 1>Arnita Lorrain Thurston. That was her full name. And she

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<v Speaker 1>had experienced a lot in her life, a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>pain in her life, a lot of courage and bravery

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<v Speaker 1>and boldness as well, and a lot of joy. And

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<v Speaker 1>I think I got the benefit. I certainly got the

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<v Speaker 1>consequence of all of her. I am you know there's

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<v Speaker 1>a version of my mother's influence on me, which for

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<v Speaker 1>much of my life I was like, it was great,

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<v Speaker 1>this is just it was a simplified hero story. My

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<v Speaker 1>mother went through a lot of stuff. She came through it,

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<v Speaker 1>my father's murder, being one step along the journey of

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<v Speaker 1>both of our lives. And she raises me, and she

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<v Speaker 1>raises my sister, and she innovations, she's a computer program.

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<v Speaker 1>Those are all true, they're not the whole truth. M hm.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I just I saw that influences like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>this is she saved me. She made me both literally

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<v Speaker 1>and she had an influence over me because of the

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<v Speaker 1>experiences she had that have led me to see the

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<v Speaker 1>world in a certain way, some experiences which maybe don't

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<v Speaker 1>serve me that well, like seeing value in perfection to

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<v Speaker 1>an unhealthy degree, fearing mistakes and binding up my sense

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<v Speaker 1>of esteem in that. Can I ask you about your mama?

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<v Speaker 1>Do you embrace the mistakes that you saw her making?

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<v Speaker 1>Do you embrace the mistakes that maybe you saw her

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<v Speaker 1>making with your sister or that you felt like around

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<v Speaker 1>parenting or whatever it was. Do you or did you?

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<v Speaker 1>Or have you consciously downloaded that into who your mother

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<v Speaker 1>is for you? And is your mother still alive? No,

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<v Speaker 1>she's not mine neither, And I I think I think

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<v Speaker 1>what I'm asking is that in your memory, does it

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<v Speaker 1>incorporate all of those things in a way of what

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<v Speaker 1>we've been talking about, of the mistakes at the step

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<v Speaker 1>so the journey. So the short answer is yes, slightly

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<v Speaker 1>longer answer is increasingly it's to stick with the update

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<v Speaker 1>and download kind of metaphor that is in progress. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's like that progress bar when you're installing some some software,

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<v Speaker 1>and so I'm installing a new story of my mother.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that the installation that happens after she dies? In part,

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<v Speaker 1>it's also just time as I get to know myself more,

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<v Speaker 1>I start to ask why, questions about how I got made,

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<v Speaker 1>how I got here? Boom Wise in house they can coexist.

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<v Speaker 1>Look at that, and so my mother is an answer

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<v Speaker 1>to many of those questions for my own existence and

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<v Speaker 1>my own belief sets and my own quirks, my own mistakes.

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<v Speaker 1>And so to look back at this version of her

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<v Speaker 1>that I have been holding for quite some time that

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<v Speaker 1>did almost everything right, and then to see that that's

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<v Speaker 1>not the case at all. Initially it's you know, with anger, frustration,

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<v Speaker 1>you let you come back to life and let me

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<v Speaker 1>talk to you. Right, I got some I got some

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<v Speaker 1>questions for you. I got some big questions, and I

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<v Speaker 1>got somehow don't make how end up in in the

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<v Speaker 1>shallow grave with the why exactly? I need some answers.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's the first response. And then it's slower but

0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:35.440
<v Speaker 1>deeper compassion. It's like, of course, of course you're a person,

0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:40.560
<v Speaker 1>right and and knowing what I already have long known

0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:44.440
<v Speaker 1>of what she experienced, of course She's gonna show up

0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:49.080
<v Speaker 1>in some ways that are always amazing, in some ways

0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:52.960
<v Speaker 1>that are painful or even harmful to herself or two

0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:56.920
<v Speaker 1>people she loves. And then I feel a sense of

0:14:57.000 --> 0:15:00.840
<v Speaker 1>frustration with myself because it's like, don't even know my mom?

0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:02.960
<v Speaker 1>You know, Did I let myself really know her? Was?

0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:06.520
<v Speaker 1>Did I need to maintain a pattern and put her

0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:10.960
<v Speaker 1>in his box of No, She's the hero. I needed

0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:13.960
<v Speaker 1>a hero to define myself, right, I emerged from these

0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:17.120
<v Speaker 1>fires and she was my firefighter. And that's it. Why

0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:21.720
<v Speaker 1>you gotta go complicating things? Or maybe she dropped a

0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:24.360
<v Speaker 1>match mores or twice whatever, like it's you know, sticking

0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:29.280
<v Speaker 1>to the metaphor. We're playing with fire metaphors. So it's

0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:33.000
<v Speaker 1>now at a point where all these things are happening

0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:38.000
<v Speaker 1>at the same time, my increasing awareness of the multiple

0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:42.880
<v Speaker 1>types of influences my mother had on me, positive, negative, neutral,

0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:49.400
<v Speaker 1>accepting that range is more of the truth than any

0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:54.680
<v Speaker 1>particularly positive thing I have clung to, and then freeing

0:15:55.280 --> 0:16:01.640
<v Speaker 1>her in my mind from this standard ah, who oh,

0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:07.360
<v Speaker 1>my gosh, that's a big one, and freeing myself. Yeah,

0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:10.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, because I'm like rocking around here, thinking I

0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:14.120
<v Speaker 1>gotta do everything a certain way of and I'm thinking

0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:16.760
<v Speaker 1>she made me do it, and I'm not giving her

0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:19.560
<v Speaker 1>to grace to understand that she's actively choose, that she's

0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:23.800
<v Speaker 1>responding to the stuff she went oh man. And then

0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:29.240
<v Speaker 1>I feel just grateful on the best days, on the

0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:33.160
<v Speaker 1>best days, in the best moments. I agree with you,

0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.840
<v Speaker 1>the loop closest with gratitude on the best days and

0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:40.120
<v Speaker 1>the days that it doesn't. I think having patience for

0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:59.000
<v Speaker 1>it being a process in your life. Can you tell

0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:05.159
<v Speaker 1>me something that grew out of a personal disaster? I mean,

0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:07.320
<v Speaker 1>let you in on my process. I'm catalog and personal

0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:12.640
<v Speaker 1>disasters trying too came out. It was a fun inventory

0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:15.720
<v Speaker 1>to just put oneself through. It's like, okay, father murder,

0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:19.679
<v Speaker 1>like that counts mother's death, calling cancer, divorce that I

0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:23.160
<v Speaker 1>didn't see coming from first marriage, which one of these

0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:25.879
<v Speaker 1>were to pick out of the cave, Oh my goodness,

0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:29.159
<v Speaker 1>and it will health issues and things like that. But

0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:35.520
<v Speaker 1>that grew from personal disaster. I think it's the idea

0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.520
<v Speaker 1>of something which whether it forced a U turn in

0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:42.280
<v Speaker 1>one's life or it was an apparently in quotes bad thing,

0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:45.760
<v Speaker 1>But when you look through the lens of time or

0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:50.280
<v Speaker 1>perspective in looking backwards, you can actually see the tributaries

0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:53.840
<v Speaker 1>that sprang from that moment and the things that grew

0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:56.959
<v Speaker 1>out of it. You know, things we call bad, they

0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:00.000
<v Speaker 1>could be bad and they could also have been super

0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:06.359
<v Speaker 1>a fertile ground. My father's death, my father's murder was

0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:13.920
<v Speaker 1>most definitely a tragedy, and a lot grew from that,

0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:19.200
<v Speaker 1>most of me. I was seven eight years old the

0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:26.080
<v Speaker 1>early nineties. I had infinitely more life without his having

0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:34.160
<v Speaker 1>life than with the tectonic plates undergirding the structure. The

0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:38.840
<v Speaker 1>ground on which I grew shifted dramatically when he died,

0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:43.280
<v Speaker 1>placing a ton more influence in my mother's hands. Defining

0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:48.399
<v Speaker 1>or not what masculinity is because I don't really have

0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:53.280
<v Speaker 1>anybody to do that, And there's so many blessings in that,

0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:58.919
<v Speaker 1>which is such an odd thing to say about a murder.

0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:04.880
<v Speaker 1>They so many consequences more neutral e of that, And

0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:09.119
<v Speaker 1>this journey thing we've been on has let me see

0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:17.560
<v Speaker 1>that I'm still growing from his death, and not just

0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:21.520
<v Speaker 1>because he wasn't around, but what it, what it meant

0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:26.360
<v Speaker 1>for me, what I never dealt with because it happened

0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:29.280
<v Speaker 1>and I was so young, and no one really helped

0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:32.240
<v Speaker 1>me deal with it, and so I'm sitting here now

0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:37.320
<v Speaker 1>like revisiting it, and Michael, that's a pretty big deal.

0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:43.320
<v Speaker 1>And then it brings me to this place of knowing

0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:48.600
<v Speaker 1>myself more. You know, again, I had this simplified factual.

0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:52.680
<v Speaker 1>Let's move on from Okay, agree you Daddy's not here.

0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:54.480
<v Speaker 1>It's a whole bunch of stuff about his life, you

0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:55.960
<v Speaker 1>don't know. It's a whole bunch of people. Part of

0:19:56.000 --> 0:20:00.320
<v Speaker 1>his life you don't know anyway, life of mine, you know,

0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:02.520
<v Speaker 1>and life with my mother and life with my sister

0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:04.560
<v Speaker 1>and blah blah blah blah and all these things. That's

0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:06.600
<v Speaker 1>been also a very public version of the story that

0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:11.080
<v Speaker 1>I've told. And to go back to that tragic moment

0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:15.879
<v Speaker 1>and say like, oh, I'm still living with that death.

0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:22.040
<v Speaker 1>Actually it's so so much has comfortable. I've reconnected with

0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:24.520
<v Speaker 1>his family in the past few years. I've got to

0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:26.679
<v Speaker 1>live in grandmother I didn't know about. There's a lot

0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:30.680
<v Speaker 1>of other relationships and experiences and parts of my life

0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:35.119
<v Speaker 1>that are activated much later. But the piece of it

0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:41.040
<v Speaker 1>that feels most fertile is this internal journey of who

0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:46.119
<v Speaker 1>am I and how long I didn't approach that part

0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:49.520
<v Speaker 1>of myself did it live in a separate place, like

0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:52.000
<v Speaker 1>in a box in a room and a yeah, it was.

0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:53.639
<v Speaker 1>It was in It was in a room in the

0:20:53.680 --> 0:20:56.560
<v Speaker 1>house of me, and I had locked the door. Was

0:20:56.600 --> 0:21:01.040
<v Speaker 1>there a moment or an occurrence that made you go

0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:05.639
<v Speaker 1>and open the door and begin that work. That's it's

0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:11.199
<v Speaker 1>difficult to pinpoint, but I know a precipitating moment. I

0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:13.760
<v Speaker 1>hate I hate that I get to say this. I

0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:17.320
<v Speaker 1>think I have to thank Mark Zuckerberg for it. I know,

0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:20.040
<v Speaker 1>I know, all right, well, well okay, but I mean

0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:21.800
<v Speaker 1>I can be grateful for him if he can SA

0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:24.720
<v Speaker 1>tell me, tell me it was Facebook, wasn't it? It was?

0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:27.240
<v Speaker 1>It was the Book of Faces. It was that, you know,

0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:32.359
<v Speaker 1>ad serving democracy, undermining birthday reminder service. Um. And I

0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:36.320
<v Speaker 1>got a message on it from a cousin who saw

0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:41.680
<v Speaker 1>me on TV and was it's like, I'm your cousin. Hey,

0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:44.239
<v Speaker 1>I remember you from blah blah blah blah blah. We

0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:47.200
<v Speaker 1>wonder what happened with you? And I was like, everybody

0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:51.880
<v Speaker 1>says they're your cousin when you're on TV, and to

0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:57.600
<v Speaker 1>to tell you to so much. There's a lot of

0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:00.560
<v Speaker 1>we've got a big business. Many many tunday to be

0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:05.240
<v Speaker 1>our brand. I you know, I saw that message and

0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:07.359
<v Speaker 1>I put it back in that locked room in the

0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:10.399
<v Speaker 1>house of me, and I just ignored it. You know,

0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:13.280
<v Speaker 1>I think for a couple of years, if I'm honest,

0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:15.160
<v Speaker 1>I have to. I mean, there's time stamps on everything,

0:22:15.200 --> 0:22:16.600
<v Speaker 1>so I could go back and find out. But it

0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:19.160
<v Speaker 1>was it wasn't the next day or the next month,

0:22:20.040 --> 0:22:22.920
<v Speaker 1>because that is one't ready. And I went back and

0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:26.280
<v Speaker 1>we finally, you know, we met up. She introduced me

0:22:26.320 --> 0:22:29.960
<v Speaker 1>to the others. It just there's ripple effects to this,

0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:33.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, in all parts of my family and and

0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:37.520
<v Speaker 1>in all parts of me. So that unlocked a wing

0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:41.200
<v Speaker 1>of the house, it turns out. And then I started

0:22:41.200 --> 0:22:43.239
<v Speaker 1>walking down the hall and I'm like, oh, what's in

0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:46.480
<v Speaker 1>this room? Oh? This relationship with my sister, what's in

0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:48.879
<v Speaker 1>this room? Oh? This is what? What? What is? What

0:22:49.040 --> 0:22:52.960
<v Speaker 1>is even a man relationship in this room? Gun violence?

0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:58.240
<v Speaker 1>What's in this room? Racism? Police, brutality? What's in this Oh?

0:22:58.320 --> 0:23:02.840
<v Speaker 1>My goodness, there's rooms inside the rooms, and there's forgiveness

0:23:02.920 --> 0:23:10.000
<v Speaker 1>in there. You know, there's updated stories of self behind

0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:13.320
<v Speaker 1>those doors doors. I didn't even know we're there. That's

0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:18.480
<v Speaker 1>my answer for now. I reserved the right to update, upgrade, modify,

0:23:18.720 --> 0:23:23.240
<v Speaker 1>and change these at any point. Great. I'm glad that

0:23:23.320 --> 0:23:25.920
<v Speaker 1>you are in charge of your own updates and it's

0:23:25.960 --> 0:23:38.320
<v Speaker 1>not Tim Cook. You are a joy. I'm so grateful.

0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:41.959
<v Speaker 1>I just thank you are the best. I really did

0:23:42.560 --> 0:23:46.399
<v Speaker 1>thank you so. I mean, you are the best at this.

0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:51.240
<v Speaker 1>You have successfully brought me to the brink of many tears.

0:23:51.520 --> 0:23:56.240
<v Speaker 1>I have successfully me to manage them. I had my communication.

0:23:56.480 --> 0:24:00.520
<v Speaker 1>I was digging my nails into my palms to cry.

0:24:00.680 --> 0:24:05.440
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, thank you. Thank you for opening some more

0:24:05.520 --> 0:24:09.320
<v Speaker 1>doors and for being fun about it is what I

0:24:09.400 --> 0:24:13.560
<v Speaker 1>try to do, and to be in the compassionate hands

0:24:13.600 --> 0:24:18.359
<v Speaker 1>of someone else who does that is I felt taken

0:24:18.359 --> 0:24:23.680
<v Speaker 1>care of here. Oh, thank you, thank you so much.

0:24:29.640 --> 0:24:34.280
<v Speaker 1>Season two of Barrotunday's brilliant podcast, How to Citizen is

0:24:34.320 --> 0:24:38.399
<v Speaker 1>out now on the I Heart Radio app. In this season,

0:24:38.640 --> 0:24:41.399
<v Speaker 1>he asked the question how can we citizen with so

0:24:41.520 --> 0:24:46.040
<v Speaker 1>much division? And I absolutely loved the first episode with

0:24:46.119 --> 0:24:49.960
<v Speaker 1>the writer and documentary and Astra Taylor, where they basically

0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:54.000
<v Speaker 1>talk about the Platonic idea of democracy, which, as far

0:24:54.040 --> 0:24:56.880
<v Speaker 1>as I can make out, Plato sort of meant that

0:24:57.000 --> 0:24:59.320
<v Speaker 1>you should just get rid of politicians and just have

0:24:59.440 --> 0:25:03.639
<v Speaker 1>the thinkers lead everybody into whatever was coming next. Please

0:25:03.720 --> 0:25:11.840
<v Speaker 1>check out his podcast, it is extremely edifying. Mini Questions

0:25:11.960 --> 0:25:16.080
<v Speaker 1>is hosted and written by me Mini Driver, Supervising producer

0:25:16.200 --> 0:25:24.200
<v Speaker 1>Aaron Kaufman, Producer Morgan Lavoy, Research assistant Marissa Brown. Original

0:25:24.320 --> 0:25:30.200
<v Speaker 1>music Sorry Baby by Minni Driver, additional music by Aaron Kaufman.

0:25:30.920 --> 0:25:35.720
<v Speaker 1>Executive produced by me Mini Driver. Special thanks to Jim Nikolay,

0:25:36.480 --> 0:25:40.960
<v Speaker 1>Will Pearson, Addison No Day, Lisa Castella and a Nick

0:25:41.080 --> 0:25:46.439
<v Speaker 1>Oppenheim at w kPr, de La Pescador, Kate Driver and

0:25:46.520 --> 0:25:51.679
<v Speaker 1>Jason Weinberg, and for constantly solicited tech support, Henry Driver