1
00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:16,280
Speaker 1: The Volume. All right, welcome to Hoops tonight. You're at

2
00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:18,360
Speaker 1: the volume. Happy Wednesday, everybody. I hope all of you

3
00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:20,640
Speaker 1: guys are having a great week so far. We are

4
00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:22,880
Speaker 1: live on AMPS, so if you're watching on YouTube or

5
00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,200
Speaker 1: listening on the podcast feeds, don't forget that AMP is

6
00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,040
Speaker 1: the very first place that you guys can get these shows.

7
00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:30,200
Speaker 1: We are continuing our top twenty five players the last

8
00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,280
Speaker 1: twenty five years today with number eight the NBA's Ragning

9
00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,960
Speaker 1: Finals MVP Nikola Jokis. We also have a couple of

10
00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,560
Speaker 1: mail bag questions we're gonna be hitting off the top.

11
00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:41,320
Speaker 1: You guys are the joke before we get started. Subscribe

12
00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:42,959
Speaker 1: to the Volumes YouTube channel so you don't miss any

13
00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,320
Speaker 1: more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at underscore

14
00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:47,680
Speaker 1: Jason lt so you guys don't miss any show announcements.

15
00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:49,839
Speaker 1: And for whatever reason you miss one of these videos

16
00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:51,640
Speaker 1: and you can't get back over to YouTube to finish,

17
00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,400
Speaker 1: don't forget you can find them wherever you get your podcasts.

18
00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,240
Speaker 1: Under Hoops tonight. Also, we're doing mail bag questions over

19
00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:00,640
Speaker 1: the next couple of weeks, So any questions about absolutely

20
00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,440
Speaker 1: anything drop in the YouTube comments and we'll be hitting

21
00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:05,520
Speaker 1: them at the top of the show before we get

22
00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,920
Speaker 1: into each player on the list. Also, lastly, it may

23
00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,880
Speaker 1: be the NBA off season, but there is no shortage

24
00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,759
Speaker 1: of events out there to attend. From baseball games which

25
00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,440
Speaker 1: are damn near impossible to find on television, to even

26
00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:19,600
Speaker 1: concerts and comedy shows, and the best way to get

27
00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,160
Speaker 1: tickets to any of these is on game Time, the

28
00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,199
Speaker 1: fastest growing ticketing app in the United States, for amazing

29
00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:27,480
Speaker 1: last minute deals on tickets to see your favorite baseball team,

30
00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,880
Speaker 1: your favorite musician, or your favorite comedian. Download game Time Again.

31
00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,759
Speaker 1: It's not just sports. August means summer concerts and comedy

32
00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,959
Speaker 1: shows across the country, and game Time has your tickets.

33
00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:41,760
Speaker 1: Download the game Time app and redeem code Hoops for

34
00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:45,600
Speaker 1: twenty dollars off your first purchase terms apply again. Download

35
00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,880
Speaker 1: the game Time app and enter code Hoops. That's Hops

36
00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,760
Speaker 1: for twenty dollars off. No matter where you live, get

37
00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:53,360
Speaker 1: out and have some fun this week. Download the game

38
00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:57,920
Speaker 1: Time App. Last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. All right,

39
00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:02,000
Speaker 1: let's talk some basketball. So we have technically three mail

40
00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,040
Speaker 1: back questions, but two of them are the same, so

41
00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,280
Speaker 1: we're gonna hit those here. At the top. The second

42
00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:07,680
Speaker 1: one actually is gonna be kind of part of the

43
00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,280
Speaker 1: Nicola Jokic things. We're gonna get going to get into

44
00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,360
Speaker 1: Jokic pretty quickly. But our first question is from kJ

45
00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:17,080
Speaker 1: the Great, how do you feel about what Noah Lyles

46
00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,919
Speaker 1: said about the NBA World Championship thing? Has probably saw

47
00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:23,200
Speaker 1: this on social media over the course of the last

48
00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,399
Speaker 1: couple of days. Trackstar says, basically doesn't understand why NBA

49
00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,960
Speaker 1: teams refer to themselves as world champions. So I think

50
00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,200
Speaker 1: this debate is incredibly dumb. Why because I don't see

51
00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,440
Speaker 1: many people refer to NBA teams as world champions. Technically,

52
00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:37,760
Speaker 1: I've seen it be done before. You'll see it sometimes

53
00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:42,160
Speaker 1: on broadcasts. Right, It's definitely a saying that has been used.

54
00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,320
Speaker 1: But it's not like Americans who win the NBA Championship

55
00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:47,680
Speaker 1: are walking around being like, I'm a world champion. I'm

56
00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:49,960
Speaker 1: a world champion. No one refers to themselves like that.

57
00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,239
Speaker 1: The vast majority of NBA players, the vast majority of

58
00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,640
Speaker 1: NBA discourse, refers to it as the NBA Championship or

59
00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,480
Speaker 1: winning the title, or winning the championship. You don't say,

60
00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,400
Speaker 1: Steph is a four times I'm world champion. You say

61
00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,680
Speaker 1: Steph is a four time champion, a four time NBA champion.

62
00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,480
Speaker 1: So to me, it's like getting mad about a problem

63
00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:11,440
Speaker 1: that doesn't actually exist. But I do want to push

64
00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:13,320
Speaker 1: back on a couple of different talking points that I've heard,

65
00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:14,600
Speaker 1: because I've heard a lot of people say that the

66
00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,040
Speaker 1: NBA is a domestic league. I don't necessarily think that's true.

67
00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,840
Speaker 1: I mean, technically it is, but the NBA is a

68
00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,520
Speaker 1: global sport. Three of the top five players in the

69
00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,840
Speaker 1: NBA right now per my player rankings, are not Americans.

70
00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:30,800
Speaker 1: A good portion of you guys who listen to the

71
00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,040
Speaker 1: show are not Americans. The NBA does have a very

72
00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,960
Speaker 1: big global appeal. Obviously, it is a domestic league in

73
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,839
Speaker 1: the most literal sense of the word because that's where

74
00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,680
Speaker 1: the franchises are located, but all of the best basketball

75
00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,000
Speaker 1: players in the world end up there. There's a massive

76
00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:50,080
Speaker 1: chasm between the NBA and the second best professional league.

77
00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,960
Speaker 1: It functions essentially as the top professional league in the world,

78
00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:56,360
Speaker 1: and it has a great global appeal. It's one of

79
00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,680
Speaker 1: the big reasons why I'm an NBA optimist about the

80
00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,520
Speaker 1: future for the NBA. Even though the NFL kicks the

81
00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,160
Speaker 1: shit out of the NBA and the television ratings every year.

82
00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,840
Speaker 1: It's because it is appealing around the globe, and I

83
00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,920
Speaker 1: do foresee a future for the NBA where it is

84
00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,760
Speaker 1: much more of a global sport than it actually is.

85
00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,400
Speaker 1: So again, like, yeah, I agree in principle with the

86
00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,520
Speaker 1: idea that referring to them as world champions as a

87
00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:24,280
Speaker 1: domestic league is not necessarily semantically correct. I also think

88
00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,360
Speaker 1: it's important to acknowledge the NBA for what it is,

89
00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,679
Speaker 1: which is a global professional sports league that appeals around

90
00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,280
Speaker 1: the globe, that draws all the best players in the world,

91
00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:34,680
Speaker 1: and for a sport in basketball that is very much

92
00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,159
Speaker 1: a global game. And so I think that people are

93
00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,200
Speaker 1: minimizing the NBA if they just simply refer to it

94
00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:45,040
Speaker 1: as a domestic league, because I don't necessarily think that's true.

95
00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:47,840
Speaker 1: All Right, we have two other mailbag questions that are

96
00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,520
Speaker 1: very related to each other and also very related to

97
00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,920
Speaker 1: today's player that we're ranking, Nicola Yoki. So we're gonna

98
00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:55,680
Speaker 1: read the questions first and then we'll actually answer the

99
00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,560
Speaker 1: question when we get further down the list. From Shabola,

100
00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,880
Speaker 1: way do you the NBA has gone too far in

101
00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,680
Speaker 1: the emphasis on skill players, for example, shooting from three

102
00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,200
Speaker 1: as opposed to slashing, rim running and post play. And

103
00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,680
Speaker 1: then secondly from Rowie to don. I understand you prefer

104
00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,520
Speaker 1: to rank perimeter players separately from centers, but it just

105
00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:15,520
Speaker 1: comes down to impact on winning. If you are a GM,

106
00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,040
Speaker 1: who are you drafting first, Kobe or Duncan, Shack or

107
00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,240
Speaker 1: Steph which player has the greatest impact on winning? Stop

108
00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:25,560
Speaker 1: copping out by wanting two different lists. Rowe from the

109
00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:29,240
Speaker 1: top rope. We're gonna talk about Nicola Jokic because in

110
00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,400
Speaker 1: the early part of that segment, I have some stuff

111
00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,159
Speaker 1: that I think is gonna help us answer both of

112
00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,039
Speaker 1: those questions. So table that basically what I'm looking at

113
00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:41,200
Speaker 1: there is why do I rank biggs and perimeter players separately?

114
00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:43,480
Speaker 1: And is there a case to be made that the

115
00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,080
Speaker 1: league is leaning too heavily into skill and not into

116
00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:49,360
Speaker 1: size and strength and trying to physically impose your will

117
00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:51,320
Speaker 1: on a basketball game. We're gonna get to that in

118
00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,040
Speaker 1: a little bit. To start, though, Number eight and our

119
00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:56,479
Speaker 1: top twenty five players the last twenty five years are

120
00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:00,680
Speaker 1: raigning finals MVP Nicola Jokics, ez Accolades Best Player on

121
00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,480
Speaker 1: a championship team in twenty twenty three, three time first

122
00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,760
Speaker 1: Team All NBA, five time All NBA overall, back to

123
00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,600
Speaker 1: back regular season MVPs in twenty twenty one, in twenty

124
00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,119
Speaker 1: twenty two, and then he won the NBA Finals MVP

125
00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,600
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three, really quick. For those people who

126
00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:17,760
Speaker 1: wonder why have Giannis and Jokic so high even though

127
00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:19,719
Speaker 1: they're so early in their careers and guys behind them

128
00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,680
Speaker 1: that have these longer resumes, because Jannis and Jokic both

129
00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:24,440
Speaker 1: had a definitive claim to be the best player in

130
00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,560
Speaker 1: the world at one point in time, which when I

131
00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,039
Speaker 1: get to guys like Dirk and KG, I'm just not

132
00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,800
Speaker 1: sure that they ever had that type of case. Right, So,

133
00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,560
Speaker 1: even though they have longer resumes with more sustained success,

134
00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,920
Speaker 1: and even though they are champions, I think that Jannis

135
00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,080
Speaker 1: and Jokic reached a higher echelon in terms of the

136
00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,280
Speaker 1: way they were measured against their peers than those guys did.

137
00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,800
Speaker 1: So that's why I have them as high as I do.

138
00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,360
Speaker 1: Nikola Jokic's claim to fame, in my opinion, is he's

139
00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,200
Speaker 1: the first center to be able to anchor a championship

140
00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:54,800
Speaker 1: team in the modern era. So one of the big

141
00:06:54,839 --> 00:07:00,640
Speaker 1: reasons why I value perimeterive players over centers typically this era,

142
00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:02,880
Speaker 1: and one of the reasons why I rank them differently

143
00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:07,159
Speaker 1: is I fundamentally view them as different positions. I would

144
00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:13,240
Speaker 1: make it akin to a quarterback versus a running back, right,

145
00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:17,000
Speaker 1: And maybe that's not a perfect example, but the point

146
00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,200
Speaker 1: is is they fundamentally operate so differently within the offense

147
00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:22,920
Speaker 1: that it doesn't make sense to compare a running back

148
00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:27,120
Speaker 1: with a quarterback. The responsibilities on a basketball court that

149
00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:32,080
Speaker 1: are fulfilled by a center are incredibly different than the

150
00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:37,120
Speaker 1: responsibilities that are fulfilled by perimeter players. Largely, a perimeter

151
00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,360
Speaker 1: player can bring the ball in from the back court

152
00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:41,200
Speaker 1: and get to where he wants to on the floor

153
00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,680
Speaker 1: without needing someone to feed him the basketball in a

154
00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,640
Speaker 1: specific spot. Nikola Jokic is actually uniquely one of the

155
00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,600
Speaker 1: few centers in NBA history who doesn't really need to

156
00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,400
Speaker 1: be set up in his spots in order to be effective.

157
00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,520
Speaker 1: He can get to wherever he needs to get because

158
00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:56,480
Speaker 1: he is that nimble, because he sees the floor that well,

159
00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,360
Speaker 1: because he dribbles the ball that well. But we did

160
00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,040
Speaker 1: have an era where big men ruled the league, and

161
00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,760
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about that right now. MJ was kind

162
00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:09,880
Speaker 1: of like this weird perimeter player dominance in an era

163
00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,640
Speaker 1: ruled by centers. Like if you look at the nineties,

164
00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,440
Speaker 1: it's like Patrick ew and Karl Malone, Hu Kimolajouan, David

165
00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,920
Speaker 1: Robinson to Kemy Matumbo. Into the early two thousands, Tim Duncan, Shack,

166
00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,960
Speaker 1: Kevin Garnett, derk Nonvinski. These big guys ruled the league

167
00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,119
Speaker 1: during those eras. As a matter of fact, we had

168
00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:29,120
Speaker 1: a championship team anchored by a power forwarder center in

169
00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:32,000
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four with a Kimo LaJuan, nineteen ninety five

170
00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,559
Speaker 1: with the Kima Ladjuan, nineteen ninety nine with Tim Duncan,

171
00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,120
Speaker 1: two thousand with Shaq, two thousand and two with Shack,

172
00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:39,160
Speaker 1: two thousand and three with Duncan, two thousand and five

173
00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,040
Speaker 1: with Duncan, two thousand and seven with Duncan, in two

174
00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:44,040
Speaker 1: thousand and eight with Kevin Garnett. In a fifteen year span,

175
00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,200
Speaker 1: the team that hoisted the trophy was anchored by the

176
00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,040
Speaker 1: best player being a big man ten times in fifteen years.

177
00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:55,560
Speaker 1: So in that era, the center was the most valuable

178
00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:59,040
Speaker 1: archetype of player, and you saw that in the results.

179
00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,840
Speaker 1: But then the league changed. The league got smaller, the

180
00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:06,280
Speaker 1: league got faster. There's a lot more pace to the game,

181
00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,040
Speaker 1: there's a lot more spacing the floor and having to

182
00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,119
Speaker 1: cover a lot of ground, and as a result, slower

183
00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,840
Speaker 1: plotting players started to have a lot less success in

184
00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,640
Speaker 1: the NBA, and you saw that in that following era

185
00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,640
Speaker 1: after that two thousand and nine best player on the

186
00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,600
Speaker 1: Champions team Kobe twenty ten, Kobe twenty eleven, Dirk, there's

187
00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:31,240
Speaker 1: your outlier, twenty twelve, Lebron, twenty thirteen, Lebron, twenty fourteen Duncan,

188
00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:35,600
Speaker 1: But again he wasn't really a superstar player at that point.

189
00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,920
Speaker 1: Tony Parker and Kawhi leond are equally or were similarly

190
00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:42,880
Speaker 1: important to that team twenty fifteen, Steph Curry, twenty sixteen, Lebron,

191
00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:47,280
Speaker 1: James twenty seventeen, KD twenty eighteen, KD twenty nineteen, Kawhi

192
00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:51,040
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, Lebron, twenty twenty one, Yannis, who I consider

193
00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,000
Speaker 1: to be a perimeter player in twenty twenty two, Steph Right,

194
00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:58,079
Speaker 1: So we had a fourteen year span or only twice

195
00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,160
Speaker 1: did we see a big man anchor a championship team,

196
00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:05,080
Speaker 1: and the dark Noviski team in twenty eleven was anchored

197
00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,800
Speaker 1: by Tyson Chandler as an athletic center who fits more

198
00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:11,360
Speaker 1: of a modern center role mold right, and dark Novitski

199
00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,000
Speaker 1: effectively was just an isolation scorer on that team, a

200
00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:15,680
Speaker 1: post up score. He was a tip of a spear,

201
00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,880
Speaker 1: and then in twenty fourteen dunk In. The gap between

202
00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,839
Speaker 1: him and the other players on his team was remarkably small.

203
00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,760
Speaker 1: So we didn't have for a fourteen year span, we

204
00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:29,120
Speaker 1: didn't have a single physically dominant big man lead a

205
00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,360
Speaker 1: team to a championship. And you guys know how I

206
00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:36,520
Speaker 1: evaluate the game of basketball. I'd responded to new information right,

207
00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:39,760
Speaker 1: and so like you guys, notice I had last year

208
00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,040
Speaker 1: in my player rankings, I had Jokic at seven and

209
00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,040
Speaker 1: mb to eight. That's why, because I was looking at

210
00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:50,760
Speaker 1: modern NBA history, a decade and a half sample where

211
00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:55,440
Speaker 1: big guys just didn't win. They just didn't. The perimeter

212
00:10:55,520 --> 00:11:00,120
Speaker 1: players won, and the league had shifted through pace and

213
00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:05,440
Speaker 1: through spacing, drive and kick, tons of movement required by

214
00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,560
Speaker 1: the players on the floor had shifted towards perimeter players

215
00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,679
Speaker 1: and having a guy who could initiate your offense from

216
00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:13,600
Speaker 1: a perimeter at a higher level than all of his

217
00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:17,679
Speaker 1: peers was actually the best way to go about winning championships.

218
00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:22,400
Speaker 1: I do fundamentally see those two archetypes as different, and

219
00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,439
Speaker 1: so I like, for me personally, that's why I rank

220
00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:31,600
Speaker 1: them differently. Now to mister Rowie, the guy who laid

221
00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,800
Speaker 1: down the criticism there, I agree with your larger point,

222
00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,800
Speaker 1: which is who contributes most to winning, like it shouldn't

223
00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,920
Speaker 1: matter what position, And you're right, and there are football

224
00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,079
Speaker 1: teams in NFL history where the running back contributed more

225
00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:49,520
Speaker 1: to winning than their quarterback did. But in this particular era,

226
00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:54,000
Speaker 1: it's extremely rare for a big man to have impact

227
00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,200
Speaker 1: on winning the way that big men did during the

228
00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:00,000
Speaker 1: decade and a half prior. But that's what makes Yok

229
00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:05,559
Speaker 1: it's so interesting. He literally reversed that trend by dominating

230
00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,080
Speaker 1: regular seasons for a few years and then proving that

231
00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:14,640
Speaker 1: a slower footed center could succeed in an NBA championship. Right, So,

232
00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,520
Speaker 1: like as we look at NBA history, there are these partitions,

233
00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:21,920
Speaker 1: there are eras as the game has changed, and so

234
00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:24,960
Speaker 1: I do think that those two archetypes do matter and

235
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,520
Speaker 1: we have seen as the NBA has shifted different archetypes,

236
00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:32,000
Speaker 1: rule different eras in this era. Right now, I tend

237
00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,120
Speaker 1: to lean towards perimeter players. Maybe Jokic ends up being

238
00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:39,920
Speaker 1: the blip. Maybe he ends up being a trend. We

239
00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:44,680
Speaker 1: don't know. Now, I would argue personally that Jokic's unique

240
00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:49,440
Speaker 1: capabilities as a perimeter player are what allowed him to

241
00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:53,400
Speaker 1: be the first center to reverse that trend. How did

242
00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:58,120
Speaker 1: Yokic dominate this playoff run by being completely unguardable offensively?

243
00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:02,080
Speaker 1: How is he completely unguardable offensively by basically being the

244
00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:06,120
Speaker 1: offensive folkrum of the team in two man games, starting

245
00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:10,720
Speaker 1: from the perimeter with Jamal Murray and by making plays

246
00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,079
Speaker 1: out of the post. But in many cases he's bringing

247
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:16,280
Speaker 1: the ball up the floor. In many cases, he's the

248
00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,480
Speaker 1: one making most of the decisions. It's not like dumping

249
00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:21,640
Speaker 1: the ball down to Tim Duncan on the block. It's

250
00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:26,160
Speaker 1: fundamentally different. He operates functionally like a point guard for

251
00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:30,640
Speaker 1: the team. And so I would argue it's more Nikola

252
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:35,000
Speaker 1: Jokic's ability to do both to be a perimeter player

253
00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,600
Speaker 1: and be the center that has allowed him to break

254
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,240
Speaker 1: that mold. And I do think the league is going

255
00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:44,000
Speaker 1: to continue to favor perimeter players, including perimeter players like

256
00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:48,120
Speaker 1: Jokic as we kind of move into the future here

257
00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,360
Speaker 1: now to the second mail back question, the idea that

258
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,920
Speaker 1: you know, are we leaning too heavily on skill? The

259
00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,800
Speaker 1: reality is is it doesn't matter whether or not you're

260
00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,719
Speaker 1: a skilled team or a physical, physically imposing team, or

261
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,800
Speaker 1: some combination of the both. It's how good are you

262
00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,920
Speaker 1: at them. We think about the the statement styles make

263
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,880
Speaker 1: fights right, which essentially means like matchups matter right. But

264
00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,240
Speaker 1: to me, I've always looked at it differently. It's not

265
00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:21,200
Speaker 1: about the styles that make the fights, it's which style

266
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:25,520
Speaker 1: wins the fight. If a big strong team plays an

267
00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:30,320
Speaker 1: overly skilled team, but the overly skilled team is more skilled,

268
00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,520
Speaker 1: then the big strong team is good at being big,

269
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,280
Speaker 1: then the skilled team will win. But if the big

270
00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,520
Speaker 1: strong team is better at physically imposing their will on games,

271
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,920
Speaker 1: then the skilled team is capable of using their skill

272
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,160
Speaker 1: to impose their will on games, then the big team

273
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:50,960
Speaker 1: is going to win. And we've seen that recent NBA history.

274
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:56,440
Speaker 1: We've got the Warriors teams from like twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen,

275
00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:02,000
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, they were not physically imposing team, but they

276
00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:04,760
Speaker 1: won with skill, and then they defended at an extremely

277
00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,320
Speaker 1: high level, but not in terms of physicality but just

278
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,360
Speaker 1: work and rotations and guys like Klay Thompson and Steph

279
00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,000
Speaker 1: Curry committing to the defensive end and containing at the

280
00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:17,240
Speaker 1: point of attack. They weren't bullying teams. But then we

281
00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,280
Speaker 1: go into this era where big teams kind of rule, right,

282
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,280
Speaker 1: Like the twenty twenty Lakers were huge, the twenty twenty

283
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:25,680
Speaker 1: one Bucks were huge, the twenty twenty three Nuggets were huge.

284
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:28,320
Speaker 1: But when you have this random team in there in

285
00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,560
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two with the Warriors that was relatively small

286
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:35,840
Speaker 1: and killed teams with high level skill. So like, the

287
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,760
Speaker 1: reality is is the question is not whether or not

288
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,000
Speaker 1: a team is leaning into the wrong thing. It's you

289
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,760
Speaker 1: should lean into what you're good at. Like, if you're

290
00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,040
Speaker 1: a team that has a ton of size, lean into

291
00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,720
Speaker 1: that as your archetype. If you have a team that

292
00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,480
Speaker 1: has a lot of skill, lean into that as your archetype.

293
00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:54,960
Speaker 1: And if you are an extremely skilled team, I believe

294
00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:56,840
Speaker 1: you can win with skill. And if you are an

295
00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,640
Speaker 1: extremely big, physically imposing team, I think you can win

296
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:04,200
Speaker 1: with that. So hopefully that answers that particular question. Now.

297
00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,400
Speaker 1: Nikole Yokic's archetype six to eleven center with seven to

298
00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,080
Speaker 1: three wingspan, two hundred and eighty four pounds, big dude,

299
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,320
Speaker 1: super nimble, has some of the best footwork I've ever

300
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,600
Speaker 1: seen from a big man in terms of just being

301
00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,680
Speaker 1: sharp with his pivot foot and not traveling, getting to

302
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:22,320
Speaker 1: his spots without getting bumped off of his base, outrageous

303
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,400
Speaker 1: hand eye coordination. I actually think it's safe to say

304
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,160
Speaker 1: at this point that no big man has ever demonstrated

305
00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,640
Speaker 1: better touch on short range push shots, floaters, and hook

306
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:34,920
Speaker 1: shots than Nikole Jokic has. He's one of two players

307
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,320
Speaker 1: in the NBA that I currently consider to be unguardable.

308
00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,320
Speaker 1: There isn't a single NBA center that has demonstrated the

309
00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:44,360
Speaker 1: ability to consistently make Yokic look uncomfortable in single coverage.

310
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,760
Speaker 1: Even guys like Rudy Gobert and Raymond Green and Anthony Davis.

311
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:49,520
Speaker 1: They might get a block every once in a while

312
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:51,400
Speaker 1: or steal every once in a while. They might make

313
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,440
Speaker 1: some plays, but in a large sample size, Jokic is

314
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,600
Speaker 1: going to get comfortable in single coverage against those guys.

315
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,880
Speaker 1: So if you leave Nikol Jokic in single coverage, he's

316
00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,800
Speaker 1: gonna score two out of three times in two man

317
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:11,000
Speaker 1: game if you stay glued up to Jokic. He's such

318
00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,520
Speaker 1: a damn good screener that Jamal Murray's gonna come off

319
00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,720
Speaker 1: and get a wide open pull up jump shot. If

320
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,560
Speaker 1: you guard it in a traditional drop coverage, you're going

321
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,639
Speaker 1: to give up a pocket pass to Nikole Jokic and

322
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,440
Speaker 1: he's gonna make that floater two out of three times.

323
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,480
Speaker 1: So you have to send multiple defenders against him. In

324
00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,399
Speaker 1: post up situations. You have to guard pick and rolls

325
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,080
Speaker 1: three on two, and he happens to be one of

326
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,080
Speaker 1: the best passers in the league with outstanding shooting on

327
00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,240
Speaker 1: the back end to make you pay consistently. He is

328
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,800
Speaker 1: fundamentally unguardable. There is no answer. You have to either

329
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:45,719
Speaker 1: choose to get killed in two on two and one

330
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,520
Speaker 1: on one coverage or to leave his teammates open and

331
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,800
Speaker 1: let him beat you from three. The only way is

332
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:56,040
Speaker 1: to try to outscore him them by punishing Jokic on

333
00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,480
Speaker 1: the other end for his slow footedness. Right, But the

334
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,959
Speaker 1: problem is is he's worked really, really hard in his

335
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:08,119
Speaker 1: career to kind of mitigate those issues, like he what

336
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,159
Speaker 1: are the things that I've talked about this on the

337
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,720
Speaker 1: show before, but like, why do I think slow footage

338
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,159
Speaker 1: centers struggle in the NBA? Transition pace, getting up and

339
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,920
Speaker 1: down the floor, guarding in space when teams space you

340
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,800
Speaker 1: out Right, those are the two big reasons that I

341
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,639
Speaker 1: had that big men struggle typically in the modern NBA.

342
00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,000
Speaker 1: But as we look closer at it, like Yo Kitsch

343
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,160
Speaker 1: is actually one of the best transition bigs in the league.

344
00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:32,880
Speaker 1: The dude just sprints every time he has, every time

345
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,320
Speaker 1: he needs to, and he's he the fastest sprinter in

346
00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:38,879
Speaker 1: the world. No, but when he sprints consistently, he's gonna

347
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,080
Speaker 1: mitigate most of the transition damage that you could do.

348
00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,240
Speaker 1: And I'd even take it a step further. Yo Kitch's

349
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,119
Speaker 1: transition sprinting is actually starting to cause problems for his

350
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,480
Speaker 1: for the people he's going against who don't run the floor,

351
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,320
Speaker 1: which is a lot of the bigs in the NBA.

352
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:54,760
Speaker 1: And then they've just found a way to guard with

353
00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:56,720
Speaker 1: him and pick and roll. They were like, Hey, if

354
00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,080
Speaker 1: we're gonna use you at the level of the screen,

355
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:01,960
Speaker 1: you got to active hands so that you can make

356
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,280
Speaker 1: things a little more difficult to pass out of, so

357
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,119
Speaker 1: that we can have a better chance to rotate on

358
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,560
Speaker 1: the back end. Right, That's what he's done. He's worked

359
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,480
Speaker 1: really hard to be an active high pick and roll

360
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:17,159
Speaker 1: defender with his hands, getting hands on pocket passes, deflecting

361
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,480
Speaker 1: or making harder skip passes. He's turned himself into an

362
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:26,400
Speaker 1: average defensive player, which is mitigated damage done on that end,

363
00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,640
Speaker 1: which has made it so that his offensive gifts can

364
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,480
Speaker 1: rise to the surface, right, and so now it's even

365
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,119
Speaker 1: harder than ever to try to outscore them on the

366
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:40,359
Speaker 1: other end of the floor. Crowning achievement for Nikola Jokiz

367
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,320
Speaker 1: was winning the twenty twenty three NBA Championship. Averaged thirty

368
00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,040
Speaker 1: points fourteen rebounds in tennis sists on sixty three percent

369
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:49,120
Speaker 1: tru shooting, made two threes per game on forty six

370
00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:53,680
Speaker 1: percent shooting. Again, this was a perimeter player. Guys is

371
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:58,280
Speaker 1: a perimeter player functionally operating as a center. He lit

372
00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,399
Speaker 1: up Rudy Gobert in the first round, lit up DeAndre

373
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,240
Speaker 1: eight and in the second round, lit up Anthony Davis

374
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,159
Speaker 1: in the third round, lit up bam Adebayo in the

375
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,360
Speaker 1: fourth round. Legitimately, three of the top five defenders at

376
00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 1: his position, and none of them could do anything to

377
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,359
Speaker 1: stop him. And the Nuggets never even felt like they

378
00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,080
Speaker 1: were remotely were remotely in danger. Even when Phoenix got

379
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:17,639
Speaker 1: it to two to two, you just knew they were

380
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,359
Speaker 1: gonna get their ass kicked in five and six, and

381
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,880
Speaker 1: they did. He left absolutely no doubt. Not only did

382
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,560
Speaker 1: he clearly demonstrate that he's the best basketball player alive,

383
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:32,520
Speaker 1: he reversed too seemingly unbreakable NBA trends. One again, a

384
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,280
Speaker 1: fourteen year span where we did not have like a legitimate,

385
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:41,160
Speaker 1: bonafide superstar center leading a team to an NBA championship

386
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:45,639
Speaker 1: fourteen years in a row. He broke that trend. And

387
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:50,520
Speaker 1: then it had literally been decades since a non defending

388
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 1: champion who wasn't a top ten defense won an NBA championship,

389
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:58,920
Speaker 1: and he broke that trend as well. So not only

390
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 1: is he the best player in the world, but he's

391
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:05,639
Speaker 1: shattering what our established norms are in the NBA. The

392
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,359
Speaker 1: biggest one if Nikola Jokic's career, in my opinion, is

393
00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,560
Speaker 1: what if Jamal Murray did not tear his ACL in

394
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty one season. Jokic was playing at a

395
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:15,840
Speaker 1: similar level in those two years and just didn't have

396
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 1: the talent necessary to push teams over the top. Twenty

397
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 1: twenty one, in particular, was a wide open year. That's

398
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,679
Speaker 1: a year they could have got it. Twenty twenty two

399
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 1: they were super competitive with the Warriors, obviously, just lacked

400
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 1: that top end talent, especially in late game situations. It's

401
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,119
Speaker 1: very possible that we could be a lot further along

402
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,400
Speaker 1: in the Jokic further along in the Jokic train, had

403
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,919
Speaker 1: he had some better luck with his teammate in his

404
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 1: acl All right, guys, that is all I have for today.

405
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 1: We will be back tomorrow with number seven. As always.

406
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 1: I appreciate you guys, and we will see you then.

407
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 1: The volume