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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Let's give a shout out

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Speaker 1: to our super producer, Max Tombstone Williams.

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Speaker 2: What you can always call me your Huggleberry. You're always

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Speaker 2: our huckleberry. Max. Do you like a tombstone pizza? What's

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Speaker 2: your favorite oven pizza? Note three years ago, back before

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Speaker 2: the condition. I would love a tombstone pizza. Something about it,

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Speaker 2: like pizza and a Matza cracker. It's something, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's nothing like it. I wouldn't say it's good, but

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Speaker 2: it's something. It's nostalgic.

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Speaker 1: Right, Thank you guys for the nostalgic MOTSA shout out.

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Speaker 1: Uh that's Noel Brown. I'm Ben Bowlin, Oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: and we're here to talk about one of our favorite

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Speaker 1: legends in the American zeitgeist. You may have heard our

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Speaker 1: pal Max say I'm your huckleberry, and I think Noel,

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Speaker 1: we make it official. So you're the bag man eternal

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Speaker 1: and uh, Max, how about you be the huckleberry.

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Speaker 2: What even is the huckleberry in this? In this context?

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Speaker 2: Is that is he referring to like the the berry? Hi?

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Speaker 2: This is this a thing people said.

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Speaker 1: I originally thought it was a reference to Mark Twain's

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Speaker 1: Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

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Speaker 2: You're totally right. I'm your sidekick, I'm your Huckleberry Finn.

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Speaker 2: I got your back. That's what he's saying. That's exactly

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Speaker 2: what he's saying. Man. Probably, Man, maybe I put that

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Speaker 2: together at one point, but I surely though apparently our

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Speaker 2: buddy Doc Holliday was a bit of a weedy little

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Speaker 2: fellow who may have done some myth making of his

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Speaker 2: own and may not have ever actually said.

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Speaker 1: That, who was a bit tubercular.

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Speaker 2: He was a bit tubercular.

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Speaker 1: This is the episode where we dive into the real

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Speaker 1: story of the legendary Doc Holiday, most famous in the

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Speaker 1: American zeitgeist as a character portrayed and embellished by Val

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Speaker 1: Kilmer in the film Tombstone.

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Speaker 2: Right in the film Tombstone where the phrase I'm your

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Speaker 2: huckleberry got popularized, it's a fun movie. Well, why Itt Arp? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: who plays him, isn't it Kurt Russell? Kurt Russell, that's

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Speaker 2: right of the thing fame. I enjoy that movie a

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Speaker 2: lot of It's probably as our most as we've talked

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Speaker 2: about on this very podcast accounts of the wild West

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Speaker 2: a bit embellished, bit overblown. Oh yes, yeah, a lot

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Speaker 2: of myth making that went into those stories, oftentimes from

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Speaker 2: the individuals themselves.

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Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, As we established earlier, and I love that point. Now,

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Speaker 1: the wild West is a period of time that was

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Speaker 1: actually fairly brief.

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Speaker 2: We have an episode specifically called like how the wild

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Speaker 2: West was actually relatively tame?

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Speaker 1: We do, we very much do. And when we dive

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Speaker 1: into the character the actual fact, shout out Lord Vogelbaum, person,

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Speaker 1: Doc Holiday. What we will see is a Georgia boy.

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Speaker 1: So if we go to Alvin K. Benson over at Ebscow,

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Speaker 1: we see that John Henry Holiday with two els was

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Speaker 1: born like us in August because he's extra Halidday, not Holiday.

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Speaker 1: He was born on August fourteenth, eighteen fifty one, right

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Speaker 1: down here in Griffin, Georgia, just.

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Speaker 2: Down the way. We know folks that stay in Griffin.

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Speaker 2: John Henry Halliday indeed second child of Alice Jane and

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Speaker 2: Henry Burrows Holiday. John's dad was a pharmacist who made

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Speaker 2: his fortune in planting and also lawyering. He was a

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Speaker 2: planter and a lawyer, bit of a multi pyphonate, yes.

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Speaker 1: Patrician agrarian. Yeah. Unfortunately, the guy who will later be

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Speaker 1: nicknamed Doc lost his mother fairly early in life. She

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Speaker 1: died of tuberculosis on September sixteenth, eighteen sixty.

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Speaker 2: Bit of a mythical origin story. If you ask me,

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Speaker 2: it's almost like he never got over it.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, the levels to what you just said.

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Speaker 1: In eighteen seventy three, our buddy John is diagnosed with

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Speaker 1: tuberculosis himself just several years after his mother passes away.

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Speaker 1: So he looks to the west. Now here the climate

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Speaker 1: right right, yeah, here in the in this period of

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Speaker 1: time in the US, one of the things doctors would

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Speaker 1: advise you to do with a chronic with a chronic

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Speaker 1: condition affecting your lungs was to just go to a

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Speaker 1: different environment. Find different yeah, convalesce, yeah, find a drier climate.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And so what drier climate then Dallas, Texas. You can

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Speaker 1: also if you go to Dallas, Texas in the late

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Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, you can also gamble your.

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Speaker 2: Keystar off right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: This is like the types of early gambling halls that

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Speaker 2: we may have seen depicted in Deadwood. For example, the

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Speaker 2: game of Fayro, which I to this day don't fully

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Speaker 2: understand how it works. Is it sort of a poker

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Speaker 2: esque game? Let's see what the Internet has to say

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Speaker 2: about that.

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Speaker 1: I'm not a card doctor, nor am I.

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Speaker 2: It does seem to involve poker hands, So yeah, just

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Speaker 2: I think it's a bit of a rudimentary early version

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Speaker 2: of poker.

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Speaker 1: Now, he started becoming an inveterate gambler or a nomadic gambler,

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Speaker 1: or a sort of hedge night of the Cards after

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Speaker 1: he left Dallas, Texas in eighteen seventy five. So he

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Speaker 1: spent about two years in Dallas before he got involved

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Speaker 1: in Lexas. Yeah, Hubbloos, he got involved in a a

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Speaker 1: firearm dispute put diplomatically, and as he said, Noel, from

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Speaker 1: about seventy five to seventy nine, three years he was

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Speaker 1: just going around the United States frontier and he was

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Speaker 1: not played pharaoh. He was dealing it. He was acting

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Speaker 1: as a dealer in Denver, in Las Vegas, in New Mexico,

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Speaker 1: in Cheyenne, and Dodge City, Kansas, which has always been

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Speaker 1: a really weird name to me. A certain city, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: and a certain point. He had to get right out of

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Speaker 1: Dodge he did, He did. He was Denver, right, and

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Speaker 1: so dodged a bullet. There dodged a bullet. He dodged,

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Speaker 1: balled a lot of stuff, according to Alvin, Alvin, there.

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Speaker 2: It is, and this rent free in my head. We

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Speaker 2: want to play the record at double speed. Right, record

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Speaker 2: is ridiculous history.

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Speaker 1: We should do it, Alvin. In the Chipmunks.

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Speaker 3: Episode, Yeah, it is almost Christmas times. Oh my gosh,

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Speaker 3: all right, nostalgia trip aside. According to Alvin Benson, our

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Speaker 3: buddy John Halliday is drifting around these towns because he

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Speaker 3: keeps getting in trouble with the law.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. He's a bit of a reprobate, a bit of

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Speaker 2: a hot head. Was prone to, you know, solving his

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Speaker 2: disputes with violence.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So if you pulled the wrong card, he might

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Speaker 1: pull the right firearm. Pull your card, Yeah, he pull

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Speaker 1: your car. Oh, I love that reference the hood. So

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Speaker 1: he skidaddled to Denver in eighteen seventy six because he

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Speaker 1: killed a US soldier somewhere in the area of Fort Richardson.

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Speaker 1: And then after he went to Denver, he left Denver

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Speaker 1: with a bad reputation. There was another gambling guy, another

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Speaker 1: gambling gambine.

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Speaker 2: Some clouts. It would seem this is maybe why he

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Speaker 2: had to skidaddle.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and they fought with guns. He ultimately looked.

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Speaker 1: His story ultimately takes him to Fort Griffin, Texas, and

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Speaker 1: this is where he meets a character will all recognize

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Speaker 1: from Tombstone, Kate Elder Herrony.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. They met in Fort Griffin, where he also met

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Speaker 2: the aforementioned US Marshall mister Wyatt Earp, portrayed by Kurt

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Speaker 2: Russell in the film Huh Tombstone we were talking about earlier.

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Speaker 2: He was in Texas on the Tale of an Outlaw,

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Speaker 2: and Doc Holliday himself once again crossed paths in a

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Speaker 2: negative way with the law when he's stabbed a dude

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Speaker 2: over a gambling beef in there in Fort Griffin, and

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Speaker 2: he was in fact jailed, but the love of his life, Herony,

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Speaker 2: lent him a hand in plotting his great escape.

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Speaker 1: And I love picturing all of us, all four of

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Speaker 1: us you listening along get home, the Bagman and the

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Speaker 1: Huckleberry and yours truly, I love picturing us as bounty

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Speaker 1: hunters or skip tracers we call them. Now, Would you

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Speaker 1: guys ever do that? Would you guys ever be bounty hunters?

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Speaker 1: Dog remember Dog Scary or Christopher Waltz's character from Django.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that guy was more less scary, but like he's

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Speaker 2: the kind of scary that doesn't have to act outwardly

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Speaker 2: scary because he just gets right down to brass tacks.

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Speaker 1: And also a dentist.

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Speaker 2: Ben you did kind of buried the lead in that

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Speaker 2: hit upon the secret skill at the heart of today's

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Speaker 2: discussion of our guy, Doc Halliday or Holiday. He was,

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Speaker 2: in fact, not only a gambler, degenerate gambler, a legendary reprobate,

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Speaker 2: potentially less of a gun slinger than he himself might

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Speaker 2: have let on, but he did sling some guns from

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Speaker 2: time to time. But also he'd dig around in your mouth.

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Speaker 2: I love the way you put that. Oh, that's so uncomfortable.

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Speaker 2: He'd dig around in your wet mouth. Yes, another adjective.

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Speaker 1: As you were saying, Noel. After Kate rescues our buddy John,

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Speaker 1: they head over to Dodge City, Kansas, and Halliday is

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Speaker 1: dealing Pharaoh at a place called the Long Branch Saloon.

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Speaker 1: This is where Wyatt and Doc Holiday become best friends.

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Speaker 1: Ever because in Dodge City, Kansas, our buddy, our buddy

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Speaker 1: Holiday saves wyatt earp from a bunch of dudes who

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Speaker 1: are about to jump him.

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Speaker 2: Man, I thought I was gonna be from a wicked

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Speaker 2: tooth infection.

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Speaker 1: That would be better for this story for sure. Alas alas, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean that's the thing though, right, He holiday himself

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Speaker 2: may have you know, exaggerated his reputation as some sort

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Speaker 2: of tough guy. It seems though, when we really dig

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Speaker 2: down into the details, he was a bit more of

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Speaker 2: a hothead, like we said earlier, rather than some sort

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Speaker 2: of precision you know, surgical killer, right, yeah, assassin's creed.

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Speaker 1: This guy was not. But he did have the reputation

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Speaker 1: of being a superb marksman. He was cold in the time.

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Speaker 1: In this brief period of years, he was called one

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Speaker 1: of the most deadly gun fighters of the Old West,

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Speaker 1: likely by himself, likely by him to be quite honest, Yes,

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Speaker 1: likely by himself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, possible in this idea that he killed thirty five

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Speaker 2: men's you know, with a single handedly. And he was

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Speaker 2: also an ace with a bowie knife. Yeah, borderline mythical

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Speaker 2: type stuff, but not only mythical, also quite apocryphal.

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Speaker 1: Right, Apocryphal is the right way to say it, because

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Speaker 1: he is you know, he's a larger than life character.

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Speaker 1: Peko's Bill kind of thing. A lot of I forgot

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Speaker 1: about Picos Bill, A lot of lurid stories. Can you

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Speaker 1: like create the Great Lakes with his lassu or something?

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Speaker 1: I'm sure he did. I'm sure he and his gigantic

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Speaker 1: Blue Ox had a great time.

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Speaker 2: And our fact based wasn't that Paul Bunyon? Oh?

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Speaker 1: That was Paul Bunyon. There's so many people.

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Speaker 2: There's a there's a pretty awesome and real problematic Disney

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Speaker 2: cartoon about Peko's Bill, right, that involves some pretty off

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Speaker 2: depictions of First Nations people, let's just say, and depicts

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Speaker 2: Peko's Bill as the absolute hero whilst he's annihilating these

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Speaker 2: people with his weapons.

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Speaker 1: Right, pekos Bill, Paul Bunyon, two different people, uh, two

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Speaker 1: different legends kind of been diagrammed it one of those like.

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Speaker 2: How did the thing get made? You know with magical

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Speaker 2: white dude that did it?

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Speaker 1: There we go, h our buddy. Doc is a real guy.

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Speaker 1: He's not called Doc just yet. He's John Halliday. And

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Speaker 1: the stories about him stabbing or shooting thirty five plus people,

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Speaker 1: they were mostly written way after he was in play,

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Speaker 1: and he popularized this image he leant into it. The

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Speaker 1: man if you meet him in reality while he's alive,

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Speaker 1: he's riddled with tuberculosis, he's kind of frail. He's actually

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Speaker 1: not great at shooting, but he is very good at

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Speaker 1: intimidation and theatrics. So he would literally sort of wave

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Speaker 1: his gun around, speak some dangerous implications, and make people

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Speaker 1: feel that they would be in trouble. We do know

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Speaker 1: that he killed at least one person with a shotgun,

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Speaker 1: one of the easiest firearms to aim. He killed a

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Speaker 1: guy named Tom mclaurie during the infamous fight at the

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Speaker 1: OK Corral.

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Speaker 2: Right, I believe that's one of his only confirmed kills.

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Speaker 2: It's the only one, the only one gotcha. So again,

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Speaker 2: a lot of apocryphal myth making stuff likely started by

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Speaker 2: Doc himself. He was used to, like we said, you know,

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Speaker 2: settling his disputes with with with fisticuffs and or you know,

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Speaker 2: his iron October twenty sixth, eighteen eighty one, in one

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Speaker 2: of the most written about instances of gun fighting in

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Speaker 2: nineteenth century America, Holiday stood side by side with IRP

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Speaker 2: at the OK Corral in that notorious fight that killed

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Speaker 2: three members of the Clanton Gang. And this is in

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Speaker 2: this period after the Tombstone gunfight that was also you know,

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Speaker 2: dramatized in that film.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you go to Tombstone, Arizona today, you're

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Speaker 1: going to see a lot of tourism stuff about it.

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Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. We're an audio podcast, but

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Speaker 1: I very much have a Tombstone mustache right now. Thanks man.

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Speaker 1: It's not on purpose, it's for some sketch comedy. But

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Speaker 1: if you go to Tombstone, Arizona, you will see factual

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Speaker 1: accountings of a very brief gunfight. Actually, and after this fight,

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Speaker 1: our buddy Doc is allegedly helping Wyatt Erp murder other

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Speaker 1: members of the Clanton Gang, Frank Stillwell and Florentino Cruz.

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Speaker 1: The thing is, our buddy John never goes to trial

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Speaker 1: for either of these murders. Instead, he passes away of tuberculosis,

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Speaker 1: the same condition that killed his mother on November eighth,

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Speaker 1: eighteen eighty seven, in a little place in Colorado called

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Speaker 1: Glenn Wood Springs. Sounds nice, Yeah, so nice sub division.

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Speaker 1: Who doesn't love a spring or a glen or a wood.

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Speaker 2: No, I mean, I live, you know what's funny? I

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Speaker 2: never mind not going to dox myself but I live

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Speaker 2: on a street involving some of those words.

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Speaker 1: We also uh, as we said, we buried the lead

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Speaker 1: a little bit. For any fellow fans of the Tombstone

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Speaker 1: cinematic masterpiece, if you're wondering why they call him Doc,

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Speaker 1: it's because he actually was a doctor asterisk.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't know in those days. I

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Speaker 2: suppose that maybe he didn't take You didn't have to

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Speaker 2: exactly get a four year degree, uh to practice medicine.

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Speaker 2: That's why they call it practicing. He did, actually, uh,

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Speaker 2: he did have some bona fides, as he also got

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Speaker 2: from his generally affluent upbringing. As we mentioned as far

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Speaker 2: there was a man of means, and Doc's education reflected that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely so. If you're looking at the guy's jacket,

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Speaker 1: as we would say in law enforcement, you'll see that,

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Speaker 1: despite being pretty nomadic before he died at the young

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Speaker 1: age of thirty six, he would not just be a gambler.

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Speaker 1: He would also say, hey, I'll fix your teeth. He

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Speaker 1: established himself. Due to his agrarian upbringing, he had a

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Speaker 1: phenomenal education for the time, especially in Georgia. He was

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Speaker 1: able to ship off to Philadelphia and go to the

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Speaker 1: Pennsylvania College of Dental Surgery after being homeschooled in math, rhetoric, grammar, history,

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Speaker 1: the classics, the classics exactly. He spoke Latin. Okay, at

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Speaker 1: least he knew some phrases.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's funny because one key part of Doc Holliday's character,

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Speaker 2: as he's depicted in fiction, is often his aerodyte speech

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Speaker 2: and his flowery kind of language. Wouldn't you say, absolutely,

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Speaker 2: it seems to indicate that background in this sort of

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Speaker 2: you know, realm of literature and history.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, dude. And at the time, the Pennsylvania College of

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Speaker 1: Dental Surgery was the second oldest dentist outfit in the

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Speaker 1: United States. And his father said, Uh, you got to

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Speaker 1: be a dentist, John, because it's more respectable than being

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Speaker 1: a doctor, he says, more progressive as well.

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Speaker 2: Interesting, whatever that sentiment came from.

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Speaker 1: We'll never know. I guess the guy didn't like doctors,

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Speaker 1: but his pattern familius was pro dentist, anti doctor.

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Speaker 2: Weird.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 2: The mouth is the window to the soul, as they

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Speaker 2: say that. But you know, like, yeah, there are so

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Speaker 2: many infections and dangerous things that can originate in the mouth,

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Speaker 2: and in this day where dental hygiene was probably not

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Speaker 2: the best. A dentist could absolutely save someone's life.

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Speaker 1: And this kid is a cracker jack student. With just

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Speaker 1: a year under his belt, he learned everything that Pennsylvania

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Speaker 1: could teach him about dentistry, so much so that he

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Speaker 1: met diminishing returns. He finished his studies a little too early.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he wasn't the appropriate age to receive his diploma.

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Speaker 2: I believe it's interesting you don't think about this, but

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Speaker 2: he had to be a minimum age of twenty one

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Speaker 2: in order to practice dentistry in the state. So he

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Speaker 2: had to weigh another five months before he got to

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Speaker 2: start his career.

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Speaker 1: And that's the state of Pennsylvania. After he graduates, he

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Speaker 1: goes back home Orgy they have like children practicing dentists. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: totally fine. Yeah, the minute you land in Hartsville, Atlanta,

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Speaker 1: watch out for baby dentists.

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Speaker 2: That's terrifying.

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Speaker 1: If you take nothing away from.

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Speaker 2: Still to this day, you get off the plane, the

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Speaker 2: little baby's coming at you, run it at you. Trying

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Speaker 2: to think of the names of other dental tools, but

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Speaker 2: let's see novacane speculum. That's very different to the profession.

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Speaker 2: That's a different kind of mouth. Oh gosh, I don't

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Speaker 2: know if we can keep that part. But different Holt,

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Speaker 2: that's not better, We're making it worse.

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Speaker 1: Holiday is returning to the Atlanta metro areas. So he's

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Speaker 1: he's from Griffin, which is about what we say, forty

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Speaker 1: miles south as the crow flies.

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Speaker 2: And funnily enough, Atlanta being a metro area, it doesn't

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Speaker 2: take much more than forty or fifty miles in either

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Speaker 2: direction for it to start feeling.

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Speaker 1: Real, real, real, real. I know some cows by first name.

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Speaker 1: So he goes to a guy named doctor arthur Ford.

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Speaker 1: Doctor arthur Ford is an established dentist, and it.

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Speaker 2: Sounds like you don't get a name like that or.

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Speaker 1: Nothing, right, and uh so he studies. He's like the

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Speaker 1: paddle one or the disciple of this guy. Their dentistry

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Speaker 1: practice becomes the largest in the city, and if you

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Speaker 1: didn't have tuberculosis, you would be set for life.

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Speaker 2: It's just it's not something that we worry about as

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Speaker 2: much these days, but there was a big deal back then. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The problem is this guy is like coughing up blood

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Speaker 1: a character in the films, right, and he's coughing probably

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Speaker 1: in other people's mouths. Hygiene wasn't where it is now

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Speaker 1: and that bloody hanky, yeah, bobdial. And so he is recommended.

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Speaker 1: He's plugged in with the medical industry of the day,

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Speaker 1: so he can see doctors. He has primary care physicians,

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Speaker 1: and his guys recommend that he leaves the Southeast, as

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Speaker 1: we're saying, for a drier environment, for different air. That

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Speaker 1: takes him to Dallas, Texas. And at first he's like,

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Speaker 1: I like gambling, but at my heart, you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: a dentist, so I should find another dental outfit and

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Speaker 1: just keep being weird about teeth. And he finds a

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Speaker 1: guy named doctor John Seegar.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they go into business together, set up a practice

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Speaker 2: that does quite well for a time, that is, until

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Speaker 2: Doc's unfortunate symptoms return. And it's probably not the best

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Speaker 2: look to have a you know, I don't know if

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Speaker 2: they had n ninety five masks back in those days,

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Speaker 2: So probably not the best look to have a dude

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Speaker 2: like coughing up lung chunks into your mouth. Well he's

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Speaker 2: digging around in there. Yeah, it was a bad look.

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Speaker 2: It led to a bad reputation, and therefore the business

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Speaker 2: began to decline. Holliday then was forced to seek alternate employment.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and he was. He was doing a good job,

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Speaker 1: like he was technically good for the time, so much

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Speaker 1: so that he won awards at the Dallas County Fair.

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Speaker 1: He and doctor Seeger they got awards for quote best

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Speaker 1: set of teeth in gold, quote best in vulcanized rubber,

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Speaker 1: and quote best set of artificial teeth and dental wear. Now, Noel,

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Speaker 1: I want to go back to this idea of vulcanized

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Speaker 1: rubber teeth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know much about this.

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Speaker 1: It's not straight seahorse teeth.

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Speaker 2: It certainly is. And I'm so glad that you pulled

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Speaker 2: out that chestnut from the glory days. Now, you know

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Speaker 2: what we're in, the glory days, the early days of

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Speaker 2: ridiculous history.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean rubber teeth, tires for your mouth. I

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Speaker 1: guess that's all teeth are.

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Speaker 2: Vulcanized rubber is exactly what was used for tires. That

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Speaker 2: process is what led to the expansion of you know,

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Speaker 2: like the Michelin company volcanization.

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Speaker 1: And also led to Ford Landy an episode speaking of

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Speaker 1: old chestnuts.

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Speaker 2: Did that one, didn't we?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we must have.

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Speaker 2: We had to.

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Speaker 1: His dental work docs in Fort Griffin around eighteen seventy seven.

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Speaker 1: We don't have a ton of documentation about it, but

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Speaker 1: we do know that the love of his life, Kate

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Speaker 1: Elder Herony, claimed her old boy Doc would sit around

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Speaker 1: in his hotel room in Fort Griffin and just do

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00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 1: pop up dentistry. Would you ever go to a pop

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Speaker 1: up dentist?

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Speaker 2: Well maybe in eighteen seventy seven, now maybe, who knows.

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Speaker 2: That's again back to Deadwood. I'm sure there's It's not

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Speaker 2: always entirely accurate, but I enjoy the show very much,

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Speaker 2: and you do often see those kind of off the

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00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 2: books medical procedures being done in a brothel we're in,

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Speaker 2: you know, one's rented room, you know, by the dock.

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Speaker 2: And that show played by the guy that did the

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Speaker 2: voice of Chucky the Doll, No kidding, the murder doll.

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Speaker 2: What was his name, Brad Dorif, I believe is his name,

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Speaker 2: And that show also depicts one of the most brutal

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Speaker 2: examples of someone with kidney stones that I think any

397
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Speaker 2: of us have ever seen, where Al Swearingen and in

398
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 2: the dock have a little back and forth in trying

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Speaker 2: to expel swear Engine's kidney stone. It is brutal and

400
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 2: show how gnarly it must have been to get sick in.

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Speaker 1: Those days, especially at that time. Yeah, and shout out

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Speaker 1: to anybody who's ever had to deal with a kidney stone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I love a lot of things, but I did not

405
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Speaker 1: love it that experience. We do love the National Museum

406
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 1: of Dentistry, where we're getting a lot of our primary

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00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 1: sourcing from here, and the boffins at the National Museum

408
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Speaker 1: of Dentistry want us to tell you that by the

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Speaker 1: time our pal doc Holiday or Halliday as it's pronounced correctly,

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Speaker 1: has reached Fort Griffin, he already has a reputation as

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Speaker 1: a hot headache gambler who was a friend of the

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00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: bowie knife and the firearm. This is why people in

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Speaker 1: the know are calling him the Deadly Dentist.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I didn't. Didn't he like put out an

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Speaker 2: ad kind of for his services.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely? Yes, Spring of eighteen seven, he picks up a room.

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Speaker 1: Think of it like a long term hotel rental or

418
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: an airbnb at the dodge house a boarding house, so

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Speaker 1: he and the love of his life, Kate can hang

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Speaker 1: out there in Kansas. It is super swank for the environment.

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00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: They got billiards downstairs. There are definitely some card games

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00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: going on. Doc is in Seventh Heaven. Here he can

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00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: practice dentistry during the day, he can gamble. He doesn't

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00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: really have to leave the building. And we got to

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Speaker 1: do the ad. Let's do the ad.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's fantastic, Jay, you know, And he goes for

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Speaker 2: a bit more of a professional name here in dentistry. JH.

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00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 2: Halliday dentist very respectfully offering his professional services to the

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Speaker 2: citizens of Dodge City and surrounding county during the summer

430
00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 2: summer deal. His office resides at Room number twenty four

431
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 2: at Dodge House, where satisfaction is not given. Ben money

432
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 2: will be refunded. He's got a money back guarantee, stands

433
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 2: by his work and he's.

434
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: Got a money back guarantee. So how many people do

435
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: you think asked for their money back after he coughed

436
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 1: wet tubercular blood. Yeah unclear, Yeah, unclear. But we do

437
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: know something happened because later our pal Doc and Kate

438
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: move their tense stakes again, and this time they go

439
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: to either Nevada or New Mexico. But ultimately they arrive

440
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas and it is just a few days

441
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: before Christmas of eighteen seventy eight. People at this time

442
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: were profoundly frightened of tuberculosis. It was a lot like

443
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: having a terminal cancer is today. So they would go

444
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: to the hot springs and the idea was there would

445
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: be some sort of rejuvenating quality to the water and

446
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: the air would be better. And eventually there were a

447
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: lot of people with tuberculosis in Vegas well, and.

448
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 2: You could, you know, potentially be ostracized for having this.

449
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 2: People didn't want you around. There was a term of

450
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 2: abuse actually that was thrown around a lunger. You were

451
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 2: a lunger, not a lunger, a lunger, And I've heard

452
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 2: that in various Westerns and stuff. It's definitely like an insult.

453
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 2: But I love the fact that the Doc, along with

454
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 2: some of the folks around him there in that town,

455
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 2: they kind of take it back and start something called

456
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 2: the Lungers Club.

457
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 1: I love it. And everybody watching Tombstone you may have

458
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: had that moment where we saw we saw the one

459
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: of the main bad guys who also speaks Latin, keeps

460
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: referring to Doc as a lunger, and he's like, oh, yeah.

461
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 2: That's where it is. Yeah, I've heard another thing to do.

462
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 2: But you're right then you say that a lot like

463
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 2: but they're using it as a nasty you know.

464
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: But in yeah and so, I love the point you're

465
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: bringing up about owning the phrase. Right, there are enough

466
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: of us to make our own club. We'll call it

467
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: the Lungers Club. Doc wants to help these people, so

468
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: he sets up a new dentistry practice almost in the

469
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: middle of town. And it doesn't last long because there

470
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: is a very cold winter that year. And more importantly

471
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: for our pal Doc, the government issues a new bill.

472
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: And this bill says no more gambling. Ahh okay, that's

473
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: classic anti Doc truly.

474
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. March of eighteen seventy nine. He you know, you

475
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 2: can't take the gamble out of the dock, so he's

476
00:32:55,880 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 2: he very politely declines to change his behavior, but unfortunately

477
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 2: that does cause him to run a foul yet again

478
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 2: of the new law, and he is indicted for running

479
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 2: an illegal gambling game.

480
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: He's got a hot head. He loves the cards. His

481
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: fingers love the cards. He can't not play Pharaoh. He's

482
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: not jailed, though, he just.

483
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 2: Gets you know, hit with a stiff fine and then

484
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 2: decides to he's leaving. He's leaving Las Vegas.

485
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: You know, and to be clear, we are talking about

486
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: Las Vegas, New Mexico.

487
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 2: Because Las Vegas, Nevada wasn't even it was barely a

488
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 2: glimmer in the eye of the mafia at this point.

489
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 1: Right, Oh, we should do an episode.

490
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 2: No, I know, we have done something about binions, like

491
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 2: a lot of the signs and some of the early

492
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 2: remember we talked to We definitely have talked about some

493
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 2: of these things. But you're one hundred percent right, and

494
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 2: there's got to be a bigger story there.

495
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: Dude, there's an origin story when we are such an

496
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 1: old married couple right now. New Mexico is definitely a state,

497
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: and our research associated for this episode, Max points out

498
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:08,720
Speaker 1: that we still do not have a New Mexico state

499
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 1: episode yet. Yeah, okay, we count this one.

500
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 2: I think we could. It's it's definitely spends it a

501
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 2: reasonable reasonable amount of time in New Mexico, So sure,

502
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 2: for sure, but we'll still do a bigger one. Can

503
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 2: I take a moment as we're talking about New Mexico

504
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 2: just to sad are ass? Have you seen the New

505
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 2: Vents Gilligan show yet, pluribus?

506
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: I have not, but I've heard good things.

507
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 2: It's phenomenal and it is set in New Mexico in

508
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 2: Albuquerque yet again, but not a extended universe of Breaking

509
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 2: Bad or better call.

510
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:44,240
Speaker 1: Salt Jesus events. Just get the key to the city.

511
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,320
Speaker 2: He loves it there. He loves it there. He apparently

512
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 2: did it only because he just likes working with his

513
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 2: crew there. And there is a mural somewhere there in

514
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,879
Speaker 2: Albuquerque of Walter White's tombstone. So taking a full circle there,

515
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,479
Speaker 2: you can take your picture with Walter White's tombstone. Also,

516
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 2: gee's to whomever owns that house, because I remember it's

517
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 2: a house. Yeah, and the heyday of Breaking Bad fandom,

518
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 2: there were people who just drive up and frisbee, uh pizza,

519
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 2: a pizza box atop the roof. You've heard the lore.

520
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 2: Apparently he got that in the first take and it

521
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 2: wasn't even like it just he just nailed it.

522
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's also fun to throw a pizza box like

523
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: a frisbee.

524
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 2: It's a giant pizza too. I think that's sort of

525
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 2: part of the joke. That's the biggest pizza I've ever seen.

526
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: Well, it's easier. I think it's easier for throwing over distance. Wait,

527
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: how many pizza boxes do you guys throw like on

528
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 1: a monthly basis.

529
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go with none, But now that you're putting

530
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 2: this in my ear, I think I might need to

531
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 2: change that.

532
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 1: It's a lot of fun.

533
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 2: So to you love the way when he throws it

534
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 2: at the pizza and the pizza box just go their

535
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 2: own ways, you know, and the pizza ends up completely

536
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 2: there you go, completely h d boxed and hanging on

537
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 2: the roof perfectly.

538
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: So to conclude our tail for today, as we all know,

539
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 1: the Deadly Dentist has one more stop. It is Tombstone, Arizona.

540
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: There is not proof of this. This is again apocryphal,

541
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 1: but from what we understand he was still working tentatively

542
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 1: as a dentist.

543
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 2: A mouth diver.

544
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:29,760
Speaker 1: A mouth diver is the phrase our research associate, Max

545
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: chose for that one.

546
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 2: It's very good. So wait, so all of the stuff

547
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,800
Speaker 2: that's portrayed in the movie Tombstone, like it's been a

548
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:38,800
Speaker 2: lot of times as I've seen it, he does some shooting,

549
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 2: some rooting and toot and shooting in that movie.

550
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:45,439
Speaker 1: Doesn't he He does. He does as a badass right

551
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 1: very much so, like in the milieu of the film,

552
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: Doc is already established as a known threat and gambler.

553
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: So we see a couple of scenes with him an

554
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:05,760
Speaker 1: expert marksman, standoff guy, and one of the most pivotal

555
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:10,240
Speaker 1: scenes will will be him walking in a trench coat

556
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: with a shotgun underneath. Yeah, and then and then there's

557
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: also the scene of him with a six shooter at

558
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 1: his back, tucked into his back belt. Yeah. So he

559
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: was quick with it, at least in the film.

560
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 2: But we know.

561
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: We know that wyatt ierp at least in his own account,

562
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 1: appeared to believe that Doc was still attempting to go

563
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: legit as a dentist in Tombstone. As we know. Ultimately

564
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: he does end up in the mucolic glen Wood Springs,

565
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: Colorado because of the sulfurous water people thought that might

566
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: leave tuberculosis. And then even in the grips of an

567
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 1: advanced medical condition, our buddy John Doc Holiday attempts to

568
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:15,760
Speaker 1: practice dentistry again, but it doesn't work and he passes away.

569
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: He's thirty six. It's oh my god, eighteen eighty seven,

570
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 1: so young.

571
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,879
Speaker 2: He does to come to the to the condition that's

572
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 2: been plaguing him ever since he was a lad.

573
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 1: The unconfirmed reports of his last words, which again, well,

574
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 1: we have to give a grain assault to Apparently his

575
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: last words were make sure you floss after them huckleberries,

576
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,280
Speaker 1: which I'm pretty sure Max made up, I think purpose.

577
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: I don't know if they had dental flaws yet back

578
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 1: in those days they did. Most people's last words are

579
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 1: something like.

580
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 2: Death rattle.

581
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for the beep there.

582
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,240
Speaker 2: It would have been cool, though, if his last words

583
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 2: were dental hygiene related. You know, he really was passionate

584
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 2: about you can't prove it wrong. That's very true, Max,

585
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:08,479
Speaker 2: and I'm not going to try.

586
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:14,240
Speaker 1: I think I can. But we'll see episode for different

587
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 1: You were there, Yoda, I got the mustache. That's like

588
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 1: a time travels passport.

589
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 2: You guys are kindred spirits, and there's no question.

590
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. I think so we should also do

591
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 1: an episode on famous last words, if we haven't yet huckleberries,

592
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 1: and on huckle the fruit, if it is in fact

593
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: even a real I truly don't know. Last pro tip, folks,

594
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: for this episode. There is a healthy discourse around what

595
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 1: Val Kilmer actually said in that line from Tombstone. Did

596
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: he say I'm your huckle berry, or did he say,

597
00:39:55,239 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: I'm your huckle barrow. Very strange conversation. We welcome you

598
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 1: to it, and we are so excited that you have

599
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: joined us today. Big shout out to our super producer

600
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 1: mister Max Williams, also our research associate for today's episode.

601
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 2: And our huckleberry, which is in fact a fruit that

602
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 2: exists and is in the blueberry family. Tight huge thanks

603
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 2: to Alex Williams who composed this theme. Chris Frosciotis needs

604
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 2: Jeff cos Heren Spear, big.

605
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 1: Big thanks to our pals doctor Rachel Big, Spinach Lance,

606
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:35,240
Speaker 1: as well as A J. Bahamas Jacobs and Oh Gosh,

607
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 1: our own one man, Clanton Gang, Jonathan Strickland A K.

608
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 2: The Quist. You know what you did. We'll see you

609
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 2: next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the

610
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

611
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 2: favorite shows,