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Speaker 1: It's time to refresh your yard. During Spring Backyard Days

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Speaker 1: Days for seven days at the Home Depot now through

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Speaker 1: for details. It's very difficult to keep the line between

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Speaker 1: the past.

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Speaker 2: And the price. You leave someone out of the past,

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Speaker 2: we can enter and take possession of a living being.

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Speaker 1: We may be through with the past, but the past

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Speaker 1: is not through with us.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back to the next picture Show a Movie the

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Speaker 3: Week podcast devoted to a classic film and the way

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Speaker 3: it's shaped our thoughts on a recent release. I'm Tasha

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Speaker 3: Robinson here again with Genevieve Kowski, Scott Bias and Keith PEPs.

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Speaker 3: In our last episode, we discussed Richard Rush's genre bending

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Speaker 3: action movie The Stuntman and how it plays around with

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Speaker 3: reality and fantasy in relation to Movie Magic. This week,

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Speaker 3: we're comparing it with a movie that's maybe a bit

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Speaker 3: more straightforward in its stuntman in Trouble Adventures, but that

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Speaker 3: still comes with plenty of fantasy elements. David Leach's The

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Speaker 3: Fall Guy. Leech put in years in the business's stunt

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Speaker 3: guy himself, including serving as Brad Pitt's longtime stunt double,

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Speaker 3: so he knows what he wants in terms of staging stunts.

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Speaker 3: After co directing the original John Wick with another stuntman

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Speaker 3: turned director, he's focused on highly action oriented films with

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Speaker 3: a lot of comedy and a lot of visual pizazz,

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Speaker 3: including Atomic Blonde, Deadpool two, Fast and Furious Presents, Hobbs

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Speaker 3: and Shaw, and Bullet Train. But it's clear that the

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Speaker 3: Fall Guy is near and dear to Leech's heart. It's

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Speaker 3: the movie where the stunt guy gets to be the hero.

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Speaker 3: Ryan Gosling stars as the somewhat ridiculously named Colt Seavers,

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Speaker 3: the Hollywood stunty and screen double for Tom Ryder, the

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Speaker 3: biggest action star in the world. Colt and camera operator

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Speaker 3: Jodie Moore played by Emily Blunt, have a romance going

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Speaker 3: the kind that's straining so hard to be super casual

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Speaker 3: that they only talk in banter and only interact with smirks.

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Speaker 3: Then Colt breaks us back during a stunt gone wrong

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Speaker 3: and drops out of everyone's lives. Jody's included. When a

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Speaker 3: producer calls him up and claims that Jody needs CULT

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Speaker 3: to come work on her directorial debut, a big budget,

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Speaker 3: high stakes sci fi movie being shot in Australia. He

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Speaker 3: lets himself be lured out of retirement, but when he

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Speaker 3: gets to the set, he finds out she doesn't want

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Speaker 3: him there and did not call him, and also that

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Speaker 3: she apparently has no other capable stunties, so he has

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Speaker 3: to stay. Also, Tom Rider has disappeared and the producer

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Speaker 3: wants CULT to track him down. There's a big mystery,

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Speaker 3: a big romance, a whole lot of exploding stuff, some

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Speaker 3: huge practical action sequences, and a classic La no war mystery,

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Speaker 3: except that this story does not happen in La. We'll

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Speaker 3: get into all of it after this break. Tom Ryder,

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Speaker 3: the biggest actions doll on planet, is missing. You need

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Speaker 3: to bring him back on. Jodie's movie is dead?

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Speaker 2: Why mean you're a stump?

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Speaker 4: Mad?

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Speaker 5: Nobody's gonna notice you.

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Speaker 3: That's your job. No offense, I mean some taking you

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Speaker 3: find Ryder save JODI's film You they had the Love

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Speaker 3: of your Life back.

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Speaker 2: I'm not the hero, I'm just the double lot of

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Speaker 2: the You're not.

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Speaker 6: Tom really need you back on set?

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Speaker 3: Pal Okay, y'all before we dig into the fall Guy specifically,

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Speaker 3: for the last decade or so, rom coms and comedy

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Speaker 3: movies have had a hard time getting made. They're often

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Speaker 3: not doing well at the box office, and people have

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Speaker 3: been writing a lot of think pieces about how movie

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Speaker 3: comedies are over. Now all of a sudden, the blockbuster

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Speaker 3: action wave that the MCU kicked off seems to be

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Speaker 3: mutating into blockbuster action romance comedies that kind of like

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Speaker 3: roll in all of these elements together. Any theories about why,

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Speaker 3: why why we're having this romancing the stonathon wave of

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Speaker 3: movies all of a sudden.

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Speaker 6: I mean, maybe step back though a little bit, because

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Speaker 6: they're not doing very well. This movie was not a

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Speaker 6: boss office success. I think you all kind of have

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Speaker 6: Argyle in mind as well, this is a much better

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Speaker 6: movie than Our Gyle, But I think it was that

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Speaker 6: film was suddenly unsuccessful. So what else were you thinking?

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Speaker 6: Of I was thinking of.

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Speaker 3: The Lost City, which did do reasonably well, and then

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Speaker 3: a bunch of kind of bad movies that came after that,

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Speaker 3: particularly Ghosted, which is just sort of unquestionably like following

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Speaker 3: that same action rom com comedy thing. Ghosted was.

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Speaker 6: Okay Netflix.

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Speaker 2: An dharmous and Chris Evans was ghosted.

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Speaker 3: Netflix instead, and Murder Mystery too, which also I would

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Speaker 3: say fit the bill. Yeah, it just it seems like

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Speaker 3: something like Lost I believe did quite well, and then

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Speaker 3: I think other people are sort of trying to like

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Speaker 3: find that sweet spot, and this just strikes me as

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Speaker 3: the latest.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a lot of almost betheadging. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we're talking about a risk averse Hollywood that is trying

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Speaker 2: to figure out other types of movies that people might

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Speaker 2: want to see that aren't MCU movies. This kind of

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Speaker 2: literally takes a lot of boxes. As you say, it's action,

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Speaker 2: it's romance, it's comedy, it's something for the guys that

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Speaker 2: has something for the ladies. YadA, YadA, YadA. You can

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Speaker 2: do the romance in the stone thing where you have

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Speaker 2: a movie that has lots of adventures but is you know,

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Speaker 2: self conscious about it and have centers on a can

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Speaker 2: take this kind of romantic comedic tack that has its

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Speaker 2: own kind of separate appeal. You know, of course, movies

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Speaker 2: have been doing that for a while. I mean, you

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Speaker 2: know that, going all the way back to something like

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Speaker 2: The African Queen. But it makes sense that they would

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Speaker 2: kind of roll the dice because this movie is broadly appealing.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't call it. It's not really a flop. I

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Speaker 2: mean it did fine. It did like it was a

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Speaker 2: twenty eight million dollars as it could. I mean, I

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Speaker 2: guess it cost a lot of money. But it is

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Speaker 2: a film that should be a hit. You know it is.

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Speaker 2: You know, our friend Matt Matt Singer got a lot

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Speaker 2: of attention this week for writing a piece that was

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Speaker 2: like what the hell was? Basically the thesis is like

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Speaker 2: what is it that people want? Like? This is this

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Speaker 2: movie kind of delivers on so many things that you

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Speaker 2: think that people want, and yet where's the big audience

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Speaker 2: that it should be showing up for it? But I

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Speaker 2: get it. I get the game. I get the gamble

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Speaker 2: because it's it's it's about as much of a gamble

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Speaker 2: as you can do while being as incredibly safe and

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Speaker 2: risk averse as possible.

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Speaker 3: Scott, is this what you want out of movie?

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Speaker 2: Is?

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Speaker 3: Like, you do sound positive on this movie, and you know,

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Speaker 3: I thought it was fun, but I also did not

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Speaker 3: think it was a particularly Scott Tobias movie.

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Speaker 2: You're right about that, actually, I do. I think I

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Speaker 2: think On Balance is a film that I like. But

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Speaker 2: I think it's a film that where the performances, particularly

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Speaker 2: Ryan Gosling's, and the filmmaking and stunt work make up

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Speaker 2: for a script that is that kind of fail it

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Speaker 2: at many turns that just is never as clever or

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Speaker 2: as witty as you expect it to be and needed

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Speaker 2: to be. This is a film that kind of has

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Speaker 2: kind of the tone of something that's witty without actually

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Speaker 2: supplying the wit.

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Speaker 6: I would argue that it sometimes gets there like there's

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Speaker 6: there's no there's things I think are very clever, like

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Speaker 6: the unicorn hallucination. I like, I appreciate it what they're

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Speaker 6: going for with the split screen scene there too. I

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Speaker 6: think that was that was fun. But yeah, you know,

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Speaker 6: another polish on this, you know, maybe a few more

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Speaker 6: funny lines. It's it's a better movie.

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Speaker 5: I think a lot of the wit also comes out

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Speaker 5: in the stunt sequences. You know, like like in the

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Speaker 5: way that they are stage and the metal layer that

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Speaker 5: is over them, and the kind of the metal layer

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Speaker 5: that is over this whole movie. You know, it's not

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Speaker 5: subtle in any way, but it seems like such an understanding. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: but yeah, I don't know. I had a really good

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Speaker 5: time with this movie. While like all like recognizing that

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Speaker 5: it is like maybe not destined to be a classic

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Speaker 5: or anything, you know, and there are certainly sort of

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Speaker 5: some holes in the plot that you could drive a

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Speaker 5: dump trunk with several people hanging off of it through.

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Speaker 5: But in the end it didn't really matter to me because,

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Speaker 5: like I there were at least half a dozen times

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Speaker 5: this movie where myself and my husband are both literally

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Speaker 5: whooped at the screen like what was happening? Like it

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Speaker 5: was just it was a very like gleeful viewing experience.

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Speaker 5: And I think the fact that Gossling and Blunt, in

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Speaker 5: my opinion, have really great chemistry and the romance element

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Speaker 5: of this works when it very easily could not have

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Speaker 5: and could have been a real cringey. The fact that

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Speaker 5: it wasn't just kind of added this extra layer of

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Speaker 5: delight onto the movie for me. There's certainly like scenes

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Speaker 5: that I could poke fun at for various reasons, but

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Speaker 5: I kind of don't want to, because this movie made

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Speaker 5: me happy. I came out of it with a big

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Speaker 5: old smile on my face.

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Speaker 3: Genevi, you've at the risk of spoilers. Can you identify

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Speaker 3: a particular whoop moment?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 6: Was this a stand up and shair them of it?

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Speaker 6: Is that only when Splashed entered the seed force, the

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Speaker 6: speed force?

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Speaker 5: No, yeah, brtal, I mean that whole dump truck. But

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Speaker 5: I guess it's not a dump truck. It's like calling

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Speaker 5: a dumpster. I don't I don't even know what that

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Speaker 5: vehicle was supposed to be.

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Speaker 3: I think I think it's a truck bed. I think

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Speaker 3: the truck bed comes loose and.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well whatever stuff is. Yeah, but that whole thing

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Speaker 5: and there's a dog, like, I mean, come on, you

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Speaker 5: add a dog to an action sequence. And of course

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Speaker 5: I'm you know, I'm I'm all in, so.

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Speaker 2: You know, again, on balance, I did like the film

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Speaker 2: more than I didn't like it, and and there is just,

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Speaker 2: you know, the pure action aspects of it are so

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Speaker 2: so skillful. It's so kinetic and so fun and also personal.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this is this is a film that is

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Speaker 2: a former stunt person who is trying to lift up

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Speaker 2: that part of the industry that is still not getting

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Speaker 2: oscars for its work. That is, you know, being quite

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Speaker 2: deliberately made invisible and really showing us what they can do,

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Speaker 2: and also making the entire movie, you know, a showcase

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Speaker 2: for the type of action that I that I personally

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Speaker 2: find incredibly appealing. It is. You know, stunt work is awesome.

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Speaker 2: It's there's it's physical, it's visceral, and to have a

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Speaker 2: movie call it calls attention to it and showcases it

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Speaker 2: with the type of technical skill the David Leech obviously has.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, it's very hard to beat. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's very hard when you have stars like Ryan Gosling

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Speaker 2: and Emily Blunt even better. So there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: just the pieces of this film almost entirely fit. It's

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Speaker 2: just it's just on this it's just on a script

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Speaker 2: level that that I think it's a little on the

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Speaker 2: weak side.

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Speaker 5: I just remembered a whoop moment that I can talk

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Speaker 5: about with I think without spoiling it too bad. But

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Speaker 5: there's a sequence toward the end and the final third

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Speaker 5: of the film where the Miami vice references throughout this

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Speaker 5: film payoff in explosive way, and that was a gratifying moment,

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Speaker 5: I think, and I knew it was coming, like like

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Speaker 5: as the scene started, I leaned over to see it.

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Speaker 5: I was like Miami Vice, but still like the like

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Speaker 5: watching it play out was very, very gratifying.

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Speaker 6: I will say I was confused by him having worked

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Speaker 6: on Miami Vice. He must be the must have been

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Speaker 6: the movie, right.

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Speaker 5: The movie or there's also there was also like a

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Speaker 5: short lived like universal stunt show, which I think that

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Speaker 5: was maybe.

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Speaker 2: About Yeah, that makes more sense.

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Speaker 3: So Scott referenced the pieces almost fitting together, and I

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Speaker 3: kind of wanted to zoom out a little and look

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Speaker 3: at those pieces. This is effectively a romance, action comedy,

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Speaker 3: mystery blockbuster, and like we've we've heard maybe a little

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Speaker 3: bit about the comedy doesn't work, or maybe a little

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Speaker 3: bit about how the romance does work. But I'm curious

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Speaker 3: for all of you if, like any of those five

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Speaker 3: pieces kind of stand out as one that does or

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Speaker 3: doesn't work As far as this, this film's like complicated

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Speaker 3: four quadrant have it all formula goes?

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Speaker 2: Okay? So wait, wait list the five again. I'll rank

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Speaker 2: them okay.

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Speaker 3: Comedy, action, romance, mystery, blockbuster.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well, blockbuster is kind of a kind of throw

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Speaker 2: that out because it's kind of a catch off for

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Speaker 2: the whole thing. I'd rank action to the top, followed

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Speaker 2: by romance than comedy than mystery. That that'd be my

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Speaker 2: order of.

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Speaker 6: Is this in the movie or just in a life

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Speaker 6: in general?

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Speaker 2: Scott, Yeah, I think this is the movie here.

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Speaker 3: See, I want to argue for me, at least the mystery.

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Speaker 3: I would put the mystery up way higher. There are

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Speaker 3: certainly big holes in the way it falls out in

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Speaker 3: the end where we kind of do a a thing

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Speaker 3: that we're reminded me a lot of like the most

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Speaker 3: laughable thing among many many laughable things in Leech's Hobbs

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Speaker 3: and Shaw, Like that is a movie that is dumb,

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Speaker 3: fun that does not hold up to any scrutiny whatsoever

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Speaker 3: and isn't really meant to. But there's a thing in

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Speaker 3: the middle of that movie where the bad guys are

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Speaker 3: just like, we want to frame Hobbs and Shaw for crimes,

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Speaker 3: so we hacked the mainframes of all of the newspapers

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Speaker 3: and media outlets and stuck a story in there. Cut

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Speaker 3: to you know, people on TV saying this just in

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Speaker 3: Hobbs and Shaw are criminals, you know, because the all

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Speaker 3: of the news organizations a use mainframes at all anymore,

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Speaker 3: because that's definitely a thing that people do and b

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Speaker 3: like are all on one like big mainframe system and

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Speaker 3: see news people don't vet news at all, just whatever

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Speaker 3: is on their main frames. They just read directly into

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Speaker 3: the screen. And there's something that happens towards the end

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Speaker 3: of this movie that feels about like that, where it's like, oh, well,

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Speaker 3: we put a thing out there and now everybody believes

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Speaker 3: it's real, but it's okay. Later we'll take take it

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Speaker 3: down and everybody will believe it's not real. And it's like,

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Speaker 3: we live in the real world. We know how conspiracy

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Speaker 3: theorists have have taken over and if you put something

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Speaker 3: on the internet, it never goes away. Like there is

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Speaker 3: no fixing what happens in this movie, let alone fixing

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Speaker 3: it casually. So there are parts of that that don't

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Speaker 3: work for me. But in terms of the the kind

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Speaker 3: of where did Tom Ryder go and why, like there

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Speaker 3: are elements of following that mystery, and just like all

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Speaker 3: of the piece pieces and parts, it's very shaggy, shaggy

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Speaker 3: doggish like almost in a big Lebowski way. It reminded

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Speaker 3: me at times of Under the Under the Silver Lake.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, started to upset me.

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Speaker 5: Scott.

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Speaker 3: This is this is the best movie ever made, and

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Speaker 3: it is completely.

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Speaker 2: Dog mysteries that are in fact intricately constructed and brilliant,

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Speaker 2: whereas this is just this is just kind of a

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Speaker 2: a a ragged sloppily written It's a.

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Speaker 5: Ragged, sloppy dog story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. It was just kind of like it just kind

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Speaker 2: of like pushes. It just kind of is a way

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Speaker 2: of it's just this sort of chromy mechanism to kind

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Speaker 2: of give us the action beats that we need to get.

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Speaker 2: I didn't feel like the mystery part was well well

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Speaker 2: written at all. But I will say, Tasha to then

304
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Speaker 2: praise you here your ability to recall anything that happens

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Speaker 2: in Hobbs and Shaw I can't. I'm impressed. Keith and

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Speaker 2: I saw that one together. I believe we did a

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Speaker 2: one of the one of the classic lobby episodes in

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Speaker 2: the car, and I could not tell you a single

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Speaker 2: thing in that movie.

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Speaker 6: So I thought it was kind of fun, but I

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Speaker 6: remember it's not.

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Speaker 2: But I did stick to the did stick to the ribs.

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Speaker 3: The reason I remember that movie vividly is is a

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Speaker 3: very personal reason. It was back when I was working

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Speaker 3: at the Verge. I was visiting New York and meeting

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Speaker 3: a lot of those people for the first time in

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Speaker 3: the office. And then we all went and saw Hobbs

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Speaker 3: and Shaw together. There were like twenty of us there.

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Speaker 3: We all had a hoot, We all laughed a lot,

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Speaker 3: and then we all went back to the office and

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Speaker 3: like wrote a big collective piece that was just like,

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Speaker 3: you know, the most hilarious anti science thing that happens

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Speaker 3: in this movie, So like bits of it stand out

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Speaker 3: for me because of that experience. It's definitely not a

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Speaker 3: memorable movie that you should, you know, admire me for

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Speaker 3: being able to hang on to the facts.

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Speaker 6: Of which one was Hobbs, which one was?

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Speaker 3: Aren't we all both Hobbs and Shaw?

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Speaker 6: Forever?

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Speaker 5: There's a Hobbs on one shoulder and a Shaw on

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Speaker 5: the other shoulder.

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Speaker 2: For us, and which I feel is.

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Speaker 3: Whichever you feed steroids.

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Speaker 2: Statham is Shaw, right, Shaw.

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Speaker 3: I am going to steer this truck bed back onto

336
00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,360
Speaker 3: the road where it's it's like sliding at a thousand

337
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,040
Speaker 3: miles an hour throwing up sparks in an attempt to

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Speaker 3: get us at least back on the road. Keith Genevieve,

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Speaker 3: any thoughts on the various parts of this movie and

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Speaker 3: like how they rank or whether they fit together, what

341
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Speaker 3: does or doesn't work for you among all of these

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Speaker 3: moving parts.

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Speaker 5: Well, to prolong the argument about the mystery element a

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Speaker 5: little a little longer, I guess I'll kind of split

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Speaker 5: the difference between Scott and Tosha's opinion. Like, I think

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Speaker 5: in the early going, the mystery element worked for me,

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Speaker 5: especially in that drug sequence with the unicorn and the

348
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Speaker 5: neon party and everything. There's like the way it is

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Speaker 5: able to like draw humor out of that, I think

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Speaker 5: is what I appreciated most about that whole sequence. So

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Speaker 5: maybe it's I'm reacting to it more on a comedy

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Speaker 5: level than a mystery level, But stick with me here.

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Speaker 5: You know, there's like the early stages of the miss

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Speaker 5: of the Search for Tom Ryder I found compelling. But

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Speaker 5: then as the actual like reveals started coming, you know,

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Speaker 5: as we started getting answers, I think like the mystery

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Speaker 5: itself was fine. The answers to the mysteries were very

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Speaker 5: dumb and very both like overly simplified and overly explained.

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Speaker 5: And there's there's one I won't spoil it, but the

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Speaker 5: there's like in the big villain reveal speech where they

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Speaker 5: like kind of talk about what the whole plan is,

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Speaker 5: there's sort of an there's sort of an addition of like,

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Speaker 5: oh yeah, and also I was responsible for this thing

364
00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:35,879
Speaker 5: that happened in the past and it was just such

365
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:41,840
Speaker 5: an unnecessary extra layer on to the villain aspect. And

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Speaker 5: also just I don't know how to say this without

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Speaker 5: spoiling it.

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Speaker 3: It's a judge moment. It's just a straight up oh,

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Speaker 3: by the way, and when I killed your brother, I

370
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,199
Speaker 3: talked like this, like there there is no brother to

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Speaker 3: be killed in the Fall Guy, So you know, it's

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Speaker 3: not a direct spoiler, but there there is that moment

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Speaker 3: of like, as a preening villain, I will take the

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Speaker 3: time to bring up this thing that was not on

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Speaker 3: your mind at all and confirm that I'm extra super evil.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And I guess all I'll say is it definitely

377
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:11,800
Speaker 5: gave me a moment of why do we even have

378
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Speaker 5: that button? And if you see the movie, I think

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Speaker 5: you probably know what I'm talking about.

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Speaker 6: I think as a mystery. There's a specter that haunts

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Speaker 6: this film, which is called The Nice Guys, and you know,

382
00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,679
Speaker 6: a better film in the same vein at Gosling's end

383
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,359
Speaker 6: because I you know, but it's fine. It moves the

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Speaker 6: thing along. In terms of the romance. I'm really glad

385
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:42,720
Speaker 6: we have this cast because I was just like, otherwise

386
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Speaker 6: I would not buy the whole thing, like yeah, and

387
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:46,880
Speaker 6: then I got injured, and like I was so embarrassed

388
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Speaker 6: I didn't talk to this woman I loved, you know,

389
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Speaker 6: that never made any sense to me whatsoever. It's like

390
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,520
Speaker 6: this had to happen or else we wouldn't have a movie.

391
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,960
Speaker 6: Was basically the only way that that made sense. But

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Speaker 6: they're so good together. They're really they're they're really have

393
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Speaker 6: great chemistry. So they're fun to watch.

394
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Speaker 2: All right.

395
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Speaker 3: This is once again where I put a foot and

396
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:12,640
Speaker 3: disagree with everybody. I hated the way Jodie was written.

397
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Speaker 3: I think Emily Ballunt does everything she can to give

398
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Speaker 3: that character, like a little depth in a little charisma,

399
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:24,520
Speaker 3: but the way she's scripted is effectively you know, she's faithless,

400
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:30,240
Speaker 3: she's needy, she's whiny, she is easily distractable, she cannot

401
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,240
Speaker 3: imagine that there's any good reason that this dude didn't

402
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:38,320
Speaker 3: show up for karaoke, so she falls apart as a result,

403
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,200
Speaker 3: Like she's just kind of she's kind of the John

404
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,600
Speaker 3: Grisham whiny wife character that I hate so much. This

405
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,080
Speaker 3: just at every beat like, yes, but why aren't you

406
00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,320
Speaker 3: here for me? Like why aren't you hear from me

407
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,600
Speaker 3: right now? And I found it really hard to believe

408
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,439
Speaker 3: that this woman had been handed a film to direct,

409
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Speaker 3: especially in our environment where it's very hard to get

410
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Speaker 3: women to direct large films, and that the film that

411
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,160
Speaker 3: she was handed to direct was a huge budget sci

412
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,200
Speaker 3: fi movie, and that somehow she got deep into production

413
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,920
Speaker 3: like eighteen months after being a camera person on this

414
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,399
Speaker 3: this movie, and Colt Seavers had absolutely no idea that

415
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,960
Speaker 3: she was being tapped to direct, Like eighteen months from

416
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,560
Speaker 3: this project doesn't exist to your deep in production. I

417
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,719
Speaker 3: know time is weird these days, y'all, but I there

418
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,359
Speaker 3: were a lot of implausible things in this movie, but

419
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Speaker 3: that was honestly the one that threw me most.

420
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Speaker 2: It's too he's too traumatizing for him to go to

421
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 2: Variety dot com and find out what's happening in this

422
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,640
Speaker 2: movie world. But I would say, I mean, I kind

423
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,040
Speaker 2: of agree with you about this about this character, and

424
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Speaker 2: the part of the thing that kind of irritated me

425
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Speaker 2: about it was the movie within the movie itself and

426
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Speaker 2: the way it kind of it was supposed to right,

427
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 2: the way it's opposed to kind of tie into her

428
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,440
Speaker 2: as a personal project. But then also there doesn't seem

429
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Speaker 2: to be any idea of where the film is going

430
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,639
Speaker 2: to go, you know, I mean, so what is what

431
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,480
Speaker 2: even is this movie she's put together? It doesn't make

432
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Speaker 2: a good case for her as somebody who has it

433
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Speaker 2: together as a filmmaker. It's this kind of lame mess.

434
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Speaker 2: And on top of all the other things that you mentioned,

435
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 2: so I don't feel like the film does very well

436
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 2: by this character. Even though I do like Emily Blunt in.

437
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 5: It, I'm not necessarily prepared to make like a huge

438
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 5: defense of how that character is written. But I will say,

439
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:35,639
Speaker 5: like as far as the whole like how this movie

440
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:42,359
Speaker 5: happened element, we haven't really talked about Hannah Wattingham's producer character, Gail,

441
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 5: who is kind of you know, starts out as kind

442
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 5: of a daffy diet coke swilling, you know, commedic relief

443
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 5: but is you know, revealed to be pulling the strings

444
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:58,919
Speaker 5: in numerous ways, and you know it's not explicitly when

445
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 5: she is specifically works with Tom Ryder Aaron Taylor Johnson's character.

446
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,719
Speaker 5: They're like a paired item, I guess. So I feel

447
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 5: like we're supposed to take it as her that brought

448
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 5: Jody into this whole thing, perhaps because she saw her

449
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 5: as someone she could control or easily manipulate. So if

450
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 5: I were to like try to make sense of like

451
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,920
Speaker 5: why this movie is happening, I would I would look

452
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 5: toward Gail not saying the movie like gives us a

453
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 5: whole lot more info there. But I think just in

454
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 5: terms of the characterization of her, you could potentially read

455
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 5: in plenty there.

456
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 3: I certainly agree that there's string pulling and an agenda

457
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 3: going on there. It just seems like something that the

458
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 3: movie needed to actually tell us what that was about.

459
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 3: And you know, if you're just looking for somebody who's

460
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 3: weak willed, who you can control, the best way to

461
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 3: do that is maybe not to put them on a

462
00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 3: project that involves almost certainly hundreds of millions of dollars

463
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,360
Speaker 3: of your and other people's money. The stakes are way

464
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 3: too high given that she is making a big budget

465
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 3: sci fi movie with what we're told is the most

466
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 3: famous actor in the world. It just seems like the

467
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 3: stakes there are kind of large for a easily maniputable,

468
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,400
Speaker 3: very emotional, first time director.

469
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 6: Have we talked about how much the movie looks bad.

470
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 3: You know, looks super bad?

471
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 2: Ye within the movie.

472
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 6: Style, I know, but it's like it's suposed to be

473
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,880
Speaker 6: a personal project for it. Well, I feel like where

474
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 6: we could keep going, but we probably should get to

475
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 6: uh probably get to comparisons and so right.

476
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 3: I mean, we should in fact get to connections. I

477
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 3: will just say I think that the movie looking terrible

478
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 3: is deliberate, Like I think that that's meant as a

479
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 3: comedy element, But it is a little hard to match

480
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 3: up the comedy element with the pretense that we're supposed

481
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 3: to both respect Jody as a director and believe that

482
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 3: she has a vision, like a personal vision that's very

483
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:11,919
Speaker 3: important to her. Just again, we may have different feelings

484
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 3: about the different pieces here, but I'm not sure that

485
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 3: they all add up.

486
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 5: I mean, I think we're supposed to be perceiving the

487
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 5: film within a film's quality through the lens of people

488
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 5: who are concerned with stunts and action, you know, not

489
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 5: narrative necessarily. So I think it's you know, it's maybe

490
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 5: less about the Cowboys an Aliens movie like being great

491
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 5: cinema and more of it being an opportunity for stunt

492
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 5: people to do their thing. And Jody is a director

493
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 5: of a filmmaker who has appreciation for stunts for various reasons.

494
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 5: So I don't I think, like I said, I think

495
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 5: the quality of the film is just supposed to be

496
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 5: perceived through that lens of its stunts more than anything else.

497
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,199
Speaker 3: Well, as it happens, as we're talking about a movie

498
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 3: within a movie that looks like it wouldn't be very good,

499
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 3: but does you know, tend to sort of like follow

500
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 3: an agenda, and part of that agenda is like big

501
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 3: dramatic stunts. It does feel like there's a movie that

502
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 3: we could very conveniently compare The Fall Guy to in

503
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 3: that regard, So, uh, why don't we take a break

504
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,479
Speaker 3: and then we'll come back and talk connections between the

505
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 3: fall Guy and the Stumpman.

506
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be sick.

507
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 6: You got this, You're the one. Why are you gonna

508
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 6: say that You've done this a million times?

509
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 2: And so you.

510
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 4: You know you just jinxed it.

511
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 5: It's a strange straight down. I need to drive in

512
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 5: the car now, please, Hey, the tide's coming up.

513
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Appreciate you.

514
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 2: Is that joy?

515
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 6: Yes, it's joby. She says something about me, stop your face,

516
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 6: stop it, stop it.

517
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 2: She didn't say anything about me.

518
00:26:59,240 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 5: The car.

519
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 3: You know, it's time for connections when we bring these

520
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 3: two films together and talk about all the things they

521
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 3: have in common. You know, honestly hadn't occurred to me

522
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 3: when I was making up my own personal list of connections.

523
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 3: But both of these movies center on a stuntman who

524
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 3: is pretty kind of like jealous of and frustrated with

525
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 3: the leading man on the movie, who seems to be

526
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 3: a bit of an e utistical blowhard. But then the

527
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 3: way the movie inside the movie ends up being shaped,

528
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 3: we don't really see the big arrogant actor do much.

529
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 3: We mostly just see the movie shifting like more and

530
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 3: more towards making the stuntman the central protagonist, the hero,

531
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 3: the person who's always on screen, always on stage, and

532
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 3: in part in both cases because the director has a

533
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 3: personal connection to and possibly a personal agenda around, that stuntman.

534
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 3: What do we make of the fact that both of

535
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 3: these movies make a big deal out of the fact

536
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 3: that stuntman just don't get at it for their work,

537
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 3: and then sideline the big star in order to make

538
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 3: more room for the stuntman to like do cool stuff.

539
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 2: Well, I'd say that they have different agendas for doing

540
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 2: that very thing. I mean, I think I think with

541
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 2: The Fall Guy, it is a fall guys about it

542
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 2: is a film that at its heart wants to put

543
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 2: a stuntman front and center just just be just as

544
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,239
Speaker 2: an homage to the whole, to the craft. That is

545
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 2: not Richard Rush's agenda with the movie The Stuntman. I

546
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 2: think the stuntman here and it is almost more metaphorical

547
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 2: as like a double an illusion to somebody who is

548
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 2: who seems to be our leading man but is in

549
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 2: fact someone else, and it kind of serves the film's

550
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 2: purposes as as something that you know is going to

551
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 2: kind of pull the rug out from under us and

552
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 2: be kind of a magic trick. So and that's says

553
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 2: I think the two films are quite different in their

554
00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 2: conception of the stuntman, but then you have an in

555
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 2: common and of course just because they do center the

556
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 2: stuntman character, then the leading man characters become, you know,

557
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 2: less relevant by comparison, especially in the Stuntman. I mean,

558
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 2: it is obviously a pretty juicy role here for you know,

559
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 2: Aaron Taylor Johnson and the fall Guy that I think

560
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 2: he takes partial advantage of. He's fine, but I think

561
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 2: there's something. I think there's a parody of Tom Cruise

562
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 2: in there somewhere that just could have been sharper and funnier.

563
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 2: But that was kind of the basic gest I got

564
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:33,479
Speaker 2: from both of these movies.

565
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 6: I think Fine is the Aaron Taylor Johnson ceiling. Unfortunately,

566
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 6: but I've been told I'm too anti Aaron Taylor Johnson,

567
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 6: so I'll just I'll lay off that.

568
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not telling you that you do you

569
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 3: in the Aaron Taylor Johnson mode. I think it's just

570
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 3: a little funny that the fall Guy like centers so

571
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 3: much on the idea that his character I'm just going

572
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 3: to see it keep saying Tom Ryder because it's the

573
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 3: names in this movie are so ridiculous. That he's such

574
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 3: a big, arrogant dude who is constantly saying he does

575
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 3: his own stunts when he very much doesn't and Colt

576
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 3: is constantly being given the direction like, you know, show

577
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 3: less of your face, make sure you're not facing the screen,

578
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 3: look away from the camera, look down, hide your face

579
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 3: with the brim of your hat, all of this stuff,

580
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 3: Whereas in The Stuntman, I'm not sure we ever get

581
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 3: to see the leading man that Cameron is doubling for

582
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 3: actually shoot anything. Like he's started there in the background.

583
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 3: He provides commentary, he clearly has an in with Eli,

584
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 3: but you know, there's never any moment of saying like, okay,

585
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 3: the stuntman's face is front and center in every single

586
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 3: one of these shots. He's being very centered here, and

587
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 3: we don't have CJ to map him out. Especially in

588
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 3: that rooftop sequence, you could see sort of like where

589
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 3: the insert shots could be shot, you know, the close

590
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 3: ups that would make you think it was the leading

591
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 3: man doing all of the work. But in a lot

592
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 3: of other cases it was just like, I don't know

593
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 3: how you're going to work around that.

594
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 5: I found it interesting that in The Stuntman, Cameron is

595
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 5: less doubling the lead actor and more doubling the original

596
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 5: stunt man to die. That's sort of more the relationship

597
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 5: between characters than the lead who I can't remember his

598
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 5: name or any impact he had on the film? Whatsoever?

599
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 5: Am I forgetting something important or no? Rent?

600
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 4: Yeah?

601
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, And.

602
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 6: Just so there's a there's a cut scene where we

603
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 6: learned that Nina and leading man are having an affair.

604
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 6: But you know that's irrelevant.

605
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 5: Isn't Nina having an affair?

606
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 4: Yeah?

607
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 3: I do want to pivot and talk. I kind of

608
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 3: held off on digging too far into Nina in the

609
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 3: first part of this discussion because I really wanted to

610
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 3: bring her into conversation with Jody. I feel like both

611
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 3: of these women are just drawn as incredibly fragile, incredibly mercurial,

612
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 3: just absolutely unreliable, weirdly prone to collapse. It bothers me

613
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 3: that Nina is one of those female characters who encounters

614
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 3: somebody who seems pretty generic in a lot of ways

615
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 3: and aggressive, dangerous, and unpleasant in a lot of other ways.

616
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 3: He's pretty abusive and awful to her, and his claim

617
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 3: that she should be a virgin before having encountered him

618
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 3: is just plain creepy, and yet she says she loves him.

619
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 3: Maybe it's all an act. She is an actress, she's

620
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 3: in on what she's doing with Eli, but the way

621
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 3: the movie ends certainly suggests that that's not true, and

622
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 3: that she has found the love of her life in

623
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 3: this very volatile criminal who thinks he owns her, and

624
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 3: that she should have never looked at or touched another

625
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:55,719
Speaker 3: man because he was coming along someday. Jody isn't as

626
00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 3: a creepily or inconsistently drawn, but she is is kind

627
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 3: of equally possessive and jealous and manipulative. I thought the

628
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 3: scene where she puts Colt through a stunt scene where

629
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 3: he's getting set on fire over and over again in

630
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 3: order to hash out their relationship via metaphor and bullhorn

631
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 3: was actually pretty funny, but only because it's just so

632
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 3: broadly drawn that you you can't quite take it seriously.

633
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 3: You just have to follow along with the emotional beats.

634
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 3: But yeah, both of these women weird, weird and fragile.

635
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 2: I think you're underestimating just the raw charisma of Steve

636
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 2: Rail's back here. I think I think you're you know,

637
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 2: when you look at these character flaws, you're just you're

638
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 2: missing You're missing just that that wordless quality that is.

639
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 6: Really really helped this episode.

640
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 2: He is still with us, Yes, well, to.

641
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 5: Bring it back to the connection, I guess the scene

642
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 5: between Cameron and Nina where he like tells her why

643
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 5: he was on the run and then all of a

644
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 5: sudden they're like in paint and like rolling around in

645
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 5: paint and laughing. Like I feel like it's just really

646
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 5: both Railsback's performance and hers just they're all over the place,

647
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 5: Like the characters are all over the place, and like

648
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 5: I think it's intentional and like again kind of going

649
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 5: back to this whole theme of like madness, the madness

650
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 5: of movie making, and you know, they've both kind of

651
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 5: lost their minds to a certain extent. And that quote

652
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 5: unquote explains the mercurial behavior on both their parts. But

653
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 5: what an oddly written and performed scene that that is.

654
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 3: I could see a version of that scene that would

655
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 3: work where he, you know, where the emotions were a

656
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 3: little more believable, where he has this moment of anger

657
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 3: and frustration and they come out of it into a

658
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 3: place of like accidental Cathar because it's so ridiculous. It's

659
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 3: not the way either of them play it, And I'm

660
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 3: with you that is, the emotional beats in that sequence

661
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 3: are all over the place and just very very strange.

662
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 2: Though I think I think it's you know, is I

663
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 2: guess as poorly as or as is underwritten, I suppose

664
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 2: as these two characters are, I think I think the

665
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 2: actresses redeem those redeem them a little bit. I do

666
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 2: like Barbara Hershey in The Stuntman and of course, and

667
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 2: I do like Emily Blunt and The Fog Guy, and

668
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 2: I think that kind of helps a little bit. But

669
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 2: they are kind of also just in terms of the

670
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 2: conception and the writing, very big flaws in both movies.

671
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 5: And one is I want to stick up for Jody

672
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 5: a little bit. I didn't find her as weak and

673
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 5: annoying you seem to be characterizing. I mean, she she's emotional,

674
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 5: she's a woman who's heartbroken, Like I don't. I think

675
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 5: in the Beginningatasha, I think maybe like characterize their relationship

676
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 5: is very like flinging and casual. But I think we're

677
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 5: supposed to, like the end of the film, realized that

678
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 5: was like a lie they were both telling themselves and

679
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,839
Speaker 5: this is like something more than that. But I think

680
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 5: like the scenes where we see her on set, that

681
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 5: scene of her fleeing him around on fire and included

682
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 5: like she is very in command, you know. I feel

683
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,479
Speaker 5: like she comes across as someone that people on set

684
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 5: listen to, you know, and that admittedly that a lot

685
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 5: of that can be placed on Emily Blun's performance, which

686
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 5: again is very good and does a lot to help

687
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 5: the character, who is like I don't want to say

688
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 5: it's a greatly written character, but I also don't feel

689
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 5: it's like on the level of thinness and weakness is Nina.

690
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 5: I think, like the what you're both characterizing is weakness

691
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 5: is just like human and it's happening outside of the

692
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,320
Speaker 5: movie for the movie set, for the most parts, happening

693
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 5: outside her job, even the karaoke scene, like that's that's

694
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 5: off time, you know. So I think like, and I

695
00:36:55,840 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 5: think Emily Blunt is someone who's really good at giving

696
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 5: a performance that is both strong and vulnerable, and so

697
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 5: I think maybe that performance is why I'm taking that

698
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 5: away from the character a little more. But I didn't

699
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 5: find Jody as annoying as as you guys see to you,

700
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 5: and I will say one of her more inexplicable moments

701
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 5: I actually liked in the broader context of the film,

702
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,240
Speaker 5: which is it like she has fights, a really extended

703
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 5: fights sequence you know that in theory that character would

704
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 5: never be able to kick ass the way that Jody

705
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,879
Speaker 5: does in that moment. But it's also like a nod

706
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 5: to the fact that Emily Blunt has action filmmaking chops,

707
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,799
Speaker 5: like she has done this kind of thing before, and

708
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 5: so I feel like including that is less about telling

709
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,760
Speaker 5: us something about Jody and more celebrating something about Emily

710
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:55,399
Speaker 5: Blunt the actress, which so much of The Fall Guy

711
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 5: is about celebrating what goes into making a movie more

712
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 5: than necessarily the movie itself. That I think that scene

713
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 5: is successful on that level.

714
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 3: For me, I'm all for Emily Blunt kicking ass, and

715
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 3: I agree that like the point of the movie where

716
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 3: she starts like throwing punches effectively or kicks does feel

717
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,320
Speaker 3: like that character kind of coming into her own. I also,

718
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 3: you know, if it needs clarification, like I don't think

719
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 3: that that early relationship was actually casual. Like the what

720
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 3: I was sort of trying to get at with that

721
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,320
Speaker 3: is they both seem to really be straining to pretend

722
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 3: it is when it isn't, and that's why it hits them,

723
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 3: you know, so hard, why it hits him so hard

724
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 3: when he doesn't feel worthy of her. Why it hits

725
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 3: her so hard when he disappears. I think it's it's

726
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,399
Speaker 3: kind of obvious that they always, like both felt really

727
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 3: more strongly about the relationship than they were comfortable expressing.

728
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 3: But I just think it's it's very difficult to pull off.

729
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 3: I love a vulnerable female character. I love a character

730
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:04,240
Speaker 3: who I love an unrequited love story, or a character

731
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 3: who thinks that their love is unrequited and has to

732
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 3: find out that it isn't. Like a lot of those

733
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 3: broadbeats are things I really enjoy cinema, But I think

734
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 3: it's just very hard to make a female character work

735
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 3: when her primary characteristic is being mad at a central

736
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 3: male character for like being in the movie that he's in. Basically,

737
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 3: you know, he's off solving mysteries, he's getting into fights

738
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 3: that he didn't invite, he's doing a lot of like

739
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 3: exciting action y things, and she's being forced to sit

740
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 3: in the background, like sulking because he's not there, you know,

741
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 3: at karaoke or at whatever meeting that she thought he

742
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 3: was supposed to be at, which.

743
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 5: Is again is all manipulation at the hands of Gail

744
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 5: on both of their parts.

745
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 3: It's just a very hard thing to pull off. What

746
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 3: else do we want to explore? What are their connections

747
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 3: to people want to throw out here?

748
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 5: One thing that I was struck by after watching both

749
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 5: of these movies is how both of these directors see

750
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 5: their stuntman as muses to a pretty great extent. And

751
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 5: we talked pretty extensively in the first half about like

752
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 5: what Eli's sort of motivations with with Cameron are. But

753
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 5: he is certainly inspired by his war experience and by

754
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 5: Cameron's war experience and what he took away from that

755
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 5: and incorporates that into his vision for an anti war film.

756
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 5: And then in The Fall Guy, you know, when Tom

757
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 5: Ryder is still missing and it's sort of cults like

758
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 5: first and I think really only full day on the set,

759
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 5: you know, we see Jody just like come alive and

760
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 5: has all these ideas for the film. And you know,

761
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 5: there's also like a scene of them kind of talking

762
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 5: over the whole split screen thing and how the romance

763
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,320
Speaker 5: is going to resolve, and it's all very very meta.

764
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:01,720
Speaker 5: But in both of these cases, it's not the actor

765
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 5: that is inspiring these these directors. It's it's the stuntman.

766
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,320
Speaker 5: I just thought that was a very clear and interesting

767
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 5: echo between them.

768
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:12,879
Speaker 6: It is, and it also kind of makes you think

769
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 6: about just you don't think about necessarily we think about

770
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 6: a film. We think about what is on the screen

771
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 6: has to be you have to have someone to can

772
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 6: pull it off. I mean, in some ways, you know,

773
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 6: the idea that stuntman can be as inspiring as any

774
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:29,800
Speaker 6: other element is is an under underappreciated part of filmmaking

775
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 6: that both these bring out.

776
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, I like that Jody like she at one point

777
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 5: says about Tom Rider like he can't do action and

778
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 5: he runs weird, you know, but.

779
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 7: That's a Tom Cruise shot, right, I mean even the

780
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 7: name Tom Rider just yeah, yeah. Has that not been

781
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 7: talked about for I haven't seen a huge amount of

782
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 7: Fall Guy discourse, but it feels like this film is

783
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 7: such a is really an attack on Tom Cruise in

784
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 7: a major way, and I just people say anything about

785
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 7: it or I'm just not seeing it, or.

786
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 5: Well there's actually been a fair amount of Fall Guy

787
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,760
Speaker 5: discourse over it. At vulture dot Com are our friends

788
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 5: Bilga and Roxanna are both a big, big fans of

789
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 5: this film and have written quite a bit on it,

790
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,839
Speaker 5: and rox Sanna wrote a piece about if the fall

791
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 5: guys Tom Ryder is based on real person, and it's

792
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 5: there's no like, you know, clear answer, but she sort

793
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:30,320
Speaker 5: of posits different possibilities, one of which is Tom Cruise,

794
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 5: but also Ryan Reynolds, Chris pat Radpitt, Jason Statham because

795
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 5: of their Leech associations, Keanu Reeves probably for the same reason,

796
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 5: Matthew McConaughey, Johnny Depp, and Dwayne Johnson, which I don't know.

797
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,320
Speaker 5: I feel like Dwaye Johnson might kind of be the

798
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 5: the the like low key target more than a top

799
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 5: top Tom Cruise, but certainly then.

800
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 2: Me because he did because he disappears from set, right.

801
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 6: But you're telling about someone who has big duayne energy,

802
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 6: as as the billboard I passed by every day informs.

803
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 3: Me, Oh dear, really.

804
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,359
Speaker 2: That's interesting. Yeah, maybe so. I just for some reason,

805
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 2: I was just the combination of the emphasis on I

806
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 2: do my own stunts, the line about him running weird,

807
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 2: and also just and also the presence of this producer

808
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 2: handler type who just who strikes me as like, you know,

809
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 2: Tom Cruise had kind of like right exactly, and he

810
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 2: had a very famous publicist to her. I think, who

811
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 2: wasn't I don't know if he was publisht anymore, but

812
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 2: very very powerful women behind the scenes who are kind

813
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 2: of setting things up for him slash potentially covering up

814
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 2: weird all of his weird shit. That so that it

815
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 2: kind of kind of struck me that Hannah Watingham was

816
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 2: kind of in that vein I look at this it

817
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 2: Roxanna mentions that as well, about that character being modeled

818
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 2: after Cruse's former publicist, his sister. And then and then

819
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 2: there was the one before her that that he had

820
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 2: gotten rid of, who was even who was notoriously very

821
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 2: very powerful in Hollywood. You were surprised when he got

822
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 2: rid of her, it was right. And then I think

823
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 2: the couch thing happened right after he got rid of

824
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,879
Speaker 2: her and his sister took off. So not a great

825
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 2: job of covering up him be weird. But anyway, I

826
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 2: do think that.

827
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 3: You'd have a hard time making the despite the Tom

828
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 3: writer Tom Cruise name similarity. You know, Tom Cruise may

829
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 3: run funny, but his running has become a meme. It

830
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,280
Speaker 3: runs in so many movies that there are super cuts.

831
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:32,879
Speaker 5: I thought we were all in agree with that he's

832
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 5: a great runner. I thought that was the line so

833
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 5: when did it become weird?

834
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 6: It's great and weird. The film goes out of its

835
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 6: way to establish that Tom Cruise exists in the universe

836
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,320
Speaker 6: of the film. It's like remember the movie Anti Viral

837
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 6: and a Scott he was a big fan, where they

838
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 6: go on the way to mention that Steve Jobs, you know,

839
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 6: Steve Jobs is a real person. So unless you be

840
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 6: you know, unless you be confused that this villainous Tim

841
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 6: Robbins character is actually Steve Jobs.

842
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 7: Keith, that's anti trust, anti viral, I trust, I'll know.

843
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 3: I will also say it seems like a big diss, Like,

844
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:09,800
Speaker 3: I mean, Tom Cruise does demonstrably do his own stuts.

845
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,359
Speaker 3: There's a ton of footage of him doing his own

846
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 3: stunts and getting hurt in the process. So like, given

847
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,839
Speaker 3: that Tom Rider is like a weasly little jerk who

848
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 3: very much does not, and that they're shading him for

849
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 3: claiming that he does, like that would be a big

850
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 3: weird diss at Tom Cruise. This article is really interesting though,

851
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 3: like you just kind of like weighing the different possibilities,

852
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,280
Speaker 3: although it does kind of seem to come down to yeah, nah.

853
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's probably an amalgam. But my personal theory is

854
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:46,359
Speaker 5: that the surface level Tom Cruise comparisons are there too

855
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 5: as a red herring to distract us from the fact

856
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 5: that it is supposed to be doing the Rock Johnson.

857
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 8: Subtle.

858
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 5: But yeah, I guess too. That was a fun little

859
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 5: tangent we went on. But yes, it was all inspired

860
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 5: by that line that kind of you know, summarizes the

861
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 5: idea that, you know, when you're making an action movie,

862
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 5: the action is what inspires you, you know, and someone

863
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 5: who is capable of not just pulling off but kind

864
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 5: of embodying that action the way that Colt is is

865
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 5: going to inspire Jody far more than someone like Tom Ryder.

866
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:26,839
Speaker 4: Yeah.

867
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 3: The idea that Cameron inspires Eli not just to you know,

868
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:36,799
Speaker 3: create this whole experience around sort of giving him emotional

869
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 3: therapy for his war trauma, but that he he kind

870
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 3: of you know, builds a lot of this film around

871
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:49,360
Speaker 3: exploiting like Cameron's very real response to war, you know,

872
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 3: to battle is an interesting idea. It does seem like

873
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 3: pretty far off from Jody taking cults kind of like

874
00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 3: physical capabilities is a way to inspire like bigger and

875
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:05,279
Speaker 3: better action sequences, which does feel a lot more real,

876
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 3: like a lot more like something that might happen, particularly

877
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 3: with a director who was also a stunt man. I

878
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:15,280
Speaker 3: don't know, sort of the same concept, but two people

879
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 3: coming in at it from very different angles.

880
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,760
Speaker 5: I think, yeah, one is inspired narratively and the others

881
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 5: inspired more stylistically.

882
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 8: Perhaps.

883
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 6: I think one thing, you know, the sometimes Incombonate deal

884
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 6: with in very different ways is the idea of danger

885
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 6: on the set. I mean this is they both make

886
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 6: it clear that being a stuntman stunt person is a

887
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 6: dangerous profession. I would say the stumpman has a little

888
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 6: there's a little more gravity there too, given that we

889
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 6: see a stuntman die in an early scene. But I

890
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 6: mean it's President fal Guy too. What did you all

891
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 6: think about how death and the possibility of danger in general,

892
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:55,239
Speaker 6: because I mean gos and Colt Siever is laid up

893
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 6: pretty seriously for you know, much of that time is

894
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 6: off screen, but is a big part of the character.

895
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean he's kind of like introduced in that

896
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 5: opening monologue of just talking about sort of the the

897
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:09,879
Speaker 5: acceptance that you know you could. It's not like as

898
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 5: explicitly death oriented as it is in Stunt Guy. It's

899
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 5: more like around being hurt, you know, But there is

900
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:20,359
Speaker 5: you know, sort of a very clear acknowledgement on both

901
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 5: of these films parts that like, this is a profession

902
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 5: that you could die doing, you know, And it's interesting

903
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:31,760
Speaker 5: to me that they both kind of include a moment

904
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 5: where those stunt men kind of face death head on

905
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 5: through a stunt that is really not a stunt, or

906
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 5: at least they don't perceive it to be that way.

907
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:45,919
Speaker 5: I talked in the first half about like Cameron doing

908
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 5: the car bridge stunt and kind of being you know,

909
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 5: him him facing the death drive that's been sort of

910
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 5: haunting him all throughout the movie. And then in The

911
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:01,320
Speaker 5: Fall Guy. I mean, obviously it's a little more jovial

912
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 5: movie throughout, but there is a sequence where Colt seems

913
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:11,400
Speaker 5: to accept that he is about to do something that

914
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:13,799
Speaker 5: is it's not a movie stunt, but it sort of

915
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:17,319
Speaker 5: calls back to a previous movie stunt of his, and

916
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,839
Speaker 5: he's sort of in that moment accepting that he is

917
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:26,839
Speaker 5: going to die. It's kind of walked back pretty soon afterwards,

918
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 5: but the way it is, you know, performed and filmed

919
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 5: and presented to us, it's easy to perceive it as

920
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 5: sort of his his last moments, you know. So it

921
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 5: just I thought it was interesting that both of these

922
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 5: characters kind of have that moment where they confront death

923
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 5: head on after it being made so clear to us

924
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 5: that it's something they kind of do every day without

925
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 5: really thinking about it, so it's a moment where they

926
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 5: really think about it.

927
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 2: It is lightly played in The Fall Guy in a

928
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 2: way that I didn't quite bring that true to me.

929
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,279
Speaker 2: And that and that, I mean, this is a guy

930
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 2: who nearly died in the stunt at the beginning of

931
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 2: the movie and then just decided just left the business entirely.

932
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 2: And and uh and uh. I think what he returns

933
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 2: the emphasis still ends up being on the love relationship

934
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 2: piece of it, and not so much that oh god,

935
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 2: I've got to put myself in horrible danger again piece

936
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:26,399
Speaker 2: of it. I think that is just that's a little

937
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 2: bit of nerves that he has to get over. And

938
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 2: then once he's over it, then we're off and running,

939
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 2: you know. Then he's getting in all kinds of scrapes

940
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 2: that are both you know, supervised on on set and

941
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 2: and and say, you know, safe as far as that

942
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 2: is concerned, and then things in the real world that

943
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 2: are very much not safe and that he's kind of

944
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 2: working through anyway. So so I never feel you never

945
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 2: feel that that trauma being something that he's working through

946
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 2: as much as as much as Cameron and uh the

947
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 2: stuntman who is who does have to confront death in

948
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:03,760
Speaker 2: a much starker way Comparatively.

949
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 3: I think it's maybe significant that Cameron doesn't have his

950
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 3: death confrontation moment until the very end of the film,

951
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 3: and it's not something he chose. It's something that Eli

952
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 3: literally forces on him when he's trying to run away

953
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 3: from it. He may experience catharsis and come out and

954
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 3: feeling better on the other side, but I'm not sure

955
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 3: how much evidence there is that, you know, he won't

956
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 3: be just as uncertain the next time. There's a big

957
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 3: death defying stunt where he's not quite sure whether Eli's

958
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 3: trying to kill him, but cold faces his demons a

959
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 3: little earlier in the film, and thus he's free to

960
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 3: force that confrontation on somebody else. You know, there is

961
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 3: the big moment in the film where they use a

962
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 3: stunt to make somebody else think they're going to die

963
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 3: and use that to their advantage. So there is a

964
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 3: little bit there of like I've come through my fear

965
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,320
Speaker 3: of death and come out on the other side.

966
00:51:58,400 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 5: You haven't yet.

967
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 3: Let's use that. Yeah, that is a weapon I can

968
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 3: use against you.

969
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, good and good job. And in putting Jody on

970
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 2: the on the director crane so she gets.

971
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 3: Why does she have a little helicopter chair?

972
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 2: Though? I love that chair man, that is that's a

973
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 2: great chair.

974
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 5: I mean, maybe before we wrap up, we can just

975
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:20,959
Speaker 5: like kind of touch on all the character parallels as

976
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 5: they pertain to film sets.

977
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 2: Uh.

978
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 5: You know, we've obviously already talked a lot about the

979
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 5: directors and the stuntman and the leading men. I do

980
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:33,840
Speaker 5: want to touch on the the stunt coordinator role really briefly,

981
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 5: mainly just to bring up Winston Duke, who is a

982
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:40,800
Speaker 5: very fun element of the fall guy and gets a

983
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 5: fair a fair amount to do. You know, in the

984
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 5: Stuntman there is that sort of training sequence I guess

985
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 5: with the stunt coordinator played by Adam Rourke, who you

986
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:57,720
Speaker 5: know sort of is hit Cameron's I guess stunt mentor mentor.

987
00:52:57,880 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 7: Yeah.

988
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, mostly he just talks about brass balls a lot.

989
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 3: But you know, I assumed that he was the like

990
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 3: the head chief stunt coordinator, like he definitely seems to

991
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 3: be in charge.

992
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:12,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, And Winston Duke's character like he's in charge

993
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 5: on this movie, but it doesn't.

994
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 2: But he is not.

995
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 5: Like he and Cult go way back and they're much

996
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:23,680
Speaker 5: much more relationship of equals between them.

997
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:29,799
Speaker 3: I have to assume that Winston Duke's character is just

998
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:32,959
Speaker 3: kind of faking things in order to support Colt because

999
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:37,240
Speaker 3: he wants Colt and Jody to have their moment together. Otherwise,

1000
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 3: that dude is not doing his job because at the

1001
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 3: point where they're they're two minutes off from filming a

1002
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 3: gigantic explosion and car Roll sequence, and he's like, Nope,

1003
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 3: there are no good stunt people in all of Australia.

1004
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:53,919
Speaker 3: We don't have anybody good on set. We're just gonna

1005
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:56,399
Speaker 3: have to use this guy. It's like, all right, please

1006
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,319
Speaker 3: tell me you're lying on Colt's behalf because you didn't

1007
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 3: think about this un till just now.

1008
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:04,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, got to accept the premise a little bit there, right.

1009
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 2: I think the fall guy would also assert that that

1010
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 2: that this is a special talent that people have. You know,

1011
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:15,840
Speaker 2: there's not an abundance of people who can do something

1012
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:19,120
Speaker 2: like this, that that folks are rare.

1013
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:21,800
Speaker 3: But when you're throwing around one hundred million dollars, you

1014
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 3: you find those people and hire them before two minutes

1015
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:26,840
Speaker 3: before the stunts supposed to start rolling.

1016
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 6: Maybe you do. Maybe you're bad at your job.

1017
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 3: But I want to think Winston Duke's bad is his

1018
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 3: job because I love Winston Duke and every every movie

1019
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 3: that he appears in, and I wanted him to have

1020
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:42,239
Speaker 3: more screen time here. He he got more than I

1021
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 3: was expecting at the beginning. It's it's not as minor

1022
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 3: a role as it seems, and he gets some some

1023
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 3: decent action. But yeah, always always more win Winston Duke

1024
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:54,399
Speaker 3: in your movies. People come on, what are you thinking?

1025
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 2: We got a role? In our discussion, didn'ty nice juicy role.

1026
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 3: We didn't talk all that. At one point in the

1027
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 3: first half of the discussion, Scott brought up the fact

1028
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 3: that Eli is very controlling and always in charge. We

1029
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:11,880
Speaker 3: didn't really bring up the one moment where he isn't

1030
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:15,359
Speaker 3: and where he loses is cool and it gets very

1031
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 3: very angry, and that's when his I believe it's a

1032
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:22,840
Speaker 3: producer calls cut on his set and he threatens to

1033
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 3: murder the fellow in a wide variety of ways, the

1034
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:29,800
Speaker 3: sort of connection when you're talking about like the different

1035
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 3: roles in a film set Genevie, even comparing them between

1036
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 3: these two movies, Like, one of the things that does

1037
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 3: come to mind for me is the connection between Gail

1038
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 3: as this kind of like master manipulator, pulling strings behind

1039
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 3: the scenes for what she wants to happen, and the

1040
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 3: producer on The Stuntman who gets straight old mistake of yeah,

1041
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 3: asserting himself for five seconds over what he thinks is

1042
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 3: a reasonable thing and then it just nearly gets throttled.

1043
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 3: I think is pretty signific.

1044
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 5: I think we've hit all the roles like sort of

1045
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:04,840
Speaker 5: with a direct one to one parallel between the two films.

1046
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 5: But one point where we don't have that is the

1047
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:13,439
Speaker 5: role of the screenwriter, who plays a fairly big role

1048
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 5: in The Stunt Guy, and we have almost no I

1049
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:21,280
Speaker 5: think there's like maybe a brief moment in The fall

1050
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:24,239
Speaker 5: Guy where a writer, I don't know if it's like

1051
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 5: the main writer or someone else like comes in and

1052
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:31,360
Speaker 5: talks about like should we add a meta moment about

1053
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 5: how we don't know what the third act is going

1054
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:34,759
Speaker 5: to be? And she's like, no, we should not do that.

1055
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:40,359
Speaker 5: But Jody kind of like serves the role of the

1056
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:45,360
Speaker 5: film's writer. There's not like a direct writer parallel figure

1057
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 5: in the fall guy, right.

1058
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:50,319
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I'm starting to wonder if that maybe kind

1059
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:54,280
Speaker 6: of reflects the priorities of the times. Yeah, which films

1060
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 6: were made too. I certainly have no sense of what

1061
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:00,839
Speaker 6: metal Storm is trying to say. I don't think it's

1062
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:07,880
Speaker 6: an anti war film, anti metal Storm, but you know,

1063
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 6: they're there. It definitely does feel not to harp on

1064
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:12,800
Speaker 6: the idea that this is not a it's hard to

1065
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 6: believe this is a passion project, but does not seem

1066
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 6: like a movie that's trying to make a statement of

1067
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 6: any kind. It definitely feels like a you know, we

1068
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 6: had to fill a hole in the on the release

1069
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:24,040
Speaker 6: calendar kind of kind of move a.

1070
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:25,560
Speaker 2: Metal Storm, metal Storm, dare you?

1071
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, I know.

1072
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 2: It's a love story about a cowboy and an alien.

1073
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 6: Which the actual There's a nineteen eighty three film called

1074
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 6: metal Store the Storm of the director of Jared said,

1075
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 6: which I assume is was just a coincience, but the

1076
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 6: plots aren't that different.

1077
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 5: There's also a fairly recent movie called Cowboys and Aliens,

1078
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 5: which kept distracting me, but also like just on an

1079
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:49,320
Speaker 5: aesthetic level, Metal Storm was giving me a little bit

1080
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:51,959
Speaker 5: of mad Max vibes, like mad Max and Stull.

1081
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:54,240
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, mad Max and dude.

1082
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 3: Yeah it was. It was giving me some Dune vibes,

1083
00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:02,720
Speaker 3: particularly in the visual design of the alien princess, who

1084
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 3: does not have a whole bunch of you know, role

1085
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 3: or lines or persona there, but you know, does get

1086
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 3: to walk around in slow motion with like through the

1087
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 3: desert with her robes billowing around her in a very

1088
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:18,720
Speaker 3: dnis Villeneuve kind of way.

1089
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 6: Now that movie Cowboys and Aliens, what's it about?

1090
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:25,400
Speaker 3: It's actually very deceptive. It turns out that it's about

1091
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:26,720
Speaker 3: aliens and cowboys.

1092
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 2: Oh interesting, Jon Favreau. Is that Jon Favreau directed? So

1093
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:34,400
Speaker 2: I think it's the one film of his I haven't seen.

1094
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 3: All Right, we've evolved into silliness and or John Fevreau reference.

1095
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 2: Wait, we bring Hobbs and Shaw back to this.

1096
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 3: Hobbs and Shaw, Cowboys and Aliens, they're they're all. They're

1097
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 3: all mix and match as far as I'm concerned. I

1098
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:49,360
Speaker 3: just want to close out by noting that both of

1099
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 3: these movies are fundamentally about how easy it is to

1100
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:55,680
Speaker 3: use a movie set to cover up a crime because

1101
00:58:56,160 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 3: the pretense around artistic creation, you know, the the movie

1102
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 3: magic of it all is being effectively used. Like in

1103
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 3: the case of The Stuntman, it's hey, we're so skilled makeup.

1104
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 3: We can hide your identity so the cops will not

1105
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:15,720
Speaker 3: arrest you for the crimes that you've committed. In Fall Guy,

1106
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 3: it's we will use CG to cover up your face

1107
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 3: so the cops will not arrest you for the crimes

1108
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 3: that you have committed. In both cases, it's just, you know,

1109
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:28,200
Speaker 3: the tools of the era aren't just good for filmmaking.

1110
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 3: They're also good for shoeing law enforcement agents off the

1111
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:35,480
Speaker 3: track and allowing people to get away with stuff like

1112
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 3: for our own purposes. So what do you think our

1113
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 3: movie making skills fundamentally evil and criminal?

1114
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 2: We are subjected to aesthetic crimes all the time.

1115
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 3: Well, that really explains it all. The Stuntman is streaming

1116
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:56,480
Speaker 3: just about everywhere, including on Peacock, to be Sling, TV Plex,

1117
00:59:56,560 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 3: and the Roku channel. It's rentable from YouTube, Google Play, Fandango,

1118
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 3: and a bunch of other digital platforms, and it's available

1119
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:06,080
Speaker 3: on DAVIDI and Blu Ray The Fall Guy is currently

1120
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 3: in theaters. We'll be right back with your Next Picture Show. Finally,

1121
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:22,440
Speaker 3: it's time to recommend a film or a film related

1122
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 3: item that complements this set of episodes. We call it

1123
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 3: your Next Picture Show in the hopes that will put

1124
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:30,880
Speaker 3: some interesting choices on your radar. So clearly, there's only

1125
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 3: one movie that we could possibly recommend in this slot.

1126
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:37,720
Speaker 3: It's another movie about a stuntman who has a terrible

1127
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 3: accident and interests us back, specifically going off a bridge.

1128
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 2: Into the water.

1129
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 3: Tarsan's The fallutes right, we've never really thoroughly explored Tartan's

1130
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:52,560
Speaker 3: The Fall in this podcast.

1131
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:57,240
Speaker 6: This episode with special guest Elliott Kelly from The Flopouts.

1132
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:01,120
Speaker 3: You remember talking to Elliott great length about The Fall

1133
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:03,480
Speaker 3: and how great that movie was. Why why wouldn't we

1134
01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 3: talk about it for another twenty minutes? The Fall by

1135
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 3: Tarsan You can't find it anywhere.

1136
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 2: It's not streaming, you can't buy it anywhere on bit

1137
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 2: touring or whatever. We're you going to find it out

1138
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 2: the pirate Bay or something.

1139
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:18,440
Speaker 3: Look, if we don't talk about The Fall at length here,

1140
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 3: we're going to have to find some movie that is

1141
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:23,840
Speaker 3: available to talk about. And I don't know what we

1142
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 3: could possibly come up with that the people could actually

1143
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:27,600
Speaker 3: see right now.

1144
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 2: We could swoop in cult sever style and take this

1145
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:31,400
Speaker 2: will take this one.

1146
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:34,320
Speaker 5: Aratasha's your next picture show double.

1147
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:35,919
Speaker 2: The next pisture show double.

1148
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:37,720
Speaker 3: Though I will say this, it's a wig that Scot's

1149
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 3: wearing right.

1150
01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 2: This has nothing to do with stunts or anything. It's

1151
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 2: just these are just things that people should see. There

1152
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:46,680
Speaker 2: has been We are in the midst of the Nancy

1153
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 2: Sovoca sants and I wanted to, you know, get people

1154
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:54,720
Speaker 2: on board with it. Natci Sivoka is a filmmaker who

1155
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:58,520
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty nine had a movie, a debut feature

1156
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:02,440
Speaker 2: that won Sunday. It's the Year that Sexalized in videotape,

1157
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:05,240
Speaker 2: launched also at Sundance, and changed the independent scene. She

1158
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 2: made a movie called True Love that won the Grand

1159
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 2: Jury Prize and was a wonderful little comedy sort of

1160
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:15,240
Speaker 2: set in an Italian American community. Very good film. That's

1161
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 2: not the film I'm going to talk about. But she

1162
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:20,400
Speaker 2: followed up with two more movies that were critically acclaimed,

1163
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:23,080
Speaker 2: that were quite good and that just didn't take off

1164
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 2: in the same way. And her career never quite recovered

1165
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 2: after that, but both films happened to have gotten quite

1166
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 2: a bit of attention within the last six months or so.

1167
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:38,600
Speaker 2: The one film called Dogfight was just released on Criterion,

1168
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:42,360
Speaker 2: and then the film that she followed up with this

1169
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 2: this had been the early nineties, early to mid nineties.

1170
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:47,360
Speaker 2: The film that her follow up was Household Saints, and

1171
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 2: that was a film that played that was restored, had

1172
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:52,960
Speaker 2: a four K restoration that was shown at the New

1173
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:56,600
Speaker 2: York Film Festival and then got a commercial run and

1174
01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 2: is now on digital. So both of these films are

1175
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:02,120
Speaker 2: quite available on like the Fall, and I think I

1176
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:06,960
Speaker 2: think they're both really wonderful, you know, evidence of Soboka's talent.

1177
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:11,360
Speaker 2: Dogfight is a film that stars River Phoenix and Lily Taylor.

1178
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:15,720
Speaker 2: It's set in nineteen sixty three in San Francisco and

1179
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:20,280
Speaker 2: River Phoenix plays a marine who is who is about

1180
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:23,479
Speaker 2: to head to Vietnam, which is kind of a new thing,

1181
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:27,080
Speaker 2: and the night before deployment, he and his buddies have

1182
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:29,560
Speaker 2: what is called a dogfight, which is a party in

1183
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:33,440
Speaker 2: which they all find the ugliest woman they can find

1184
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:36,680
Speaker 2: to bring to as their date. And you know, the

1185
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:40,080
Speaker 2: winner is you know, and these women are judged and

1186
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 2: and the winner of this bet gets this prize money,

1187
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:48,600
Speaker 2: and of course it's obviously extraordinarily cruel. And the person

1188
01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:53,880
Speaker 2: that River Phoenix finds is a waitress played by Lily Taylor,

1189
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 2: who's you know, whose works at this restaurant with that

1190
01:03:57,680 --> 01:04:01,960
Speaker 2: her mother owns leaves a very sheltered life, is certainly

1191
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:05,040
Speaker 2: more you know, you know, playing and lacks lacks of

1192
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:08,280
Speaker 2: a tremendous amount of self confidence. But as the evening

1193
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 2: sort of wears on the two of them, you know,

1194
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 2: the connection grows between the two of them that there's

1195
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:18,440
Speaker 2: a lot more to them both, uh than than this

1196
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:22,120
Speaker 2: kind of cruel premise. And and the film almost becomes

1197
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:26,240
Speaker 2: almost before sun sunrises in terms of having you know,

1198
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 2: you know, in this case, starting from such a low place,

1199
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:32,600
Speaker 2: but then also then developing into something quite moving, you know,

1200
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:36,960
Speaker 2: particularly you know, once uh you know, the coda, which

1201
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 2: is which is kind of set after he comes back

1202
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:41,160
Speaker 2: from the war and the world has changed so much,

1203
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:44,880
Speaker 2: is just so gorgeous. That's on cartoon that's called Dogfight.

1204
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:47,600
Speaker 2: And then her follow up film is household Saints, and

1205
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 2: that was a it's an adaptation of a Francene Prose

1206
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:55,560
Speaker 2: novel that Jonathan Demi executive produced and gets set in

1207
01:04:55,640 --> 01:05:00,640
Speaker 2: sort of the Italian American community, and the fifth I

1208
01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 2: like to I like to say it kind of starts

1209
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:07,560
Speaker 2: with the premise of a couple played by Vincent Donafrio

1210
01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:11,920
Speaker 2: and Tracy Ulman who Dnafrio's character wins in a in

1211
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 2: a wins his bride in a pe nuckle game. That

1212
01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:17,880
Speaker 2: is sort of the family lore that it is built on.

1213
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:20,760
Speaker 2: You know, it's a very difficult film to describe because

1214
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:24,040
Speaker 2: because there are so many you know, it's about you know,

1215
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 2: religion and and it's about in the modern world and

1216
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:29,680
Speaker 2: the old world and these sort of tensions that exist

1217
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:34,280
Speaker 2: within this immigrant community. But it's very light and funny

1218
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:36,760
Speaker 2: and uh. And it again has Lily Taylor, this time

1219
01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:41,640
Speaker 2: as the daughter of this couple who ends up being

1220
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 2: a lot like her traditional grandmother. She becomes very religious.

1221
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:49,280
Speaker 2: She wants to become like Saint Teresa. She wants her

1222
01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:53,120
Speaker 2: life to have significant and have this this close relationship

1223
01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:55,720
Speaker 2: with God. And it's a premise that the film treats

1224
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:59,400
Speaker 2: with with humor and with seriousness and irony, and it's

1225
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:01,920
Speaker 2: just it's it's a very the way I'm describing it,

1226
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:05,360
Speaker 2: of course, will probably make it seem exactly what it was,

1227
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:07,760
Speaker 2: which was a tough sell at the time, and very

1228
01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:10,480
Speaker 2: much and very much kind of a novelistic premise that

1229
01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:13,040
Speaker 2: was kind of hard to communicate in a log line

1230
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 2: what exactly it is, but it is. I think she

1231
01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:20,200
Speaker 2: writes with such specificity of place of character. I think

1232
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:24,560
Speaker 2: she gets really wonderful performances out of her actors. She

1233
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:27,560
Speaker 2: has a really nice feeling for period detail and music.

1234
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:29,880
Speaker 2: And I think if you watch these two films together,

1235
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:34,080
Speaker 2: Dogfight and Household Saints, I think they inform each other

1236
01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:36,880
Speaker 2: quite beautifully. And then you can read my piece right,

1237
01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:39,640
Speaker 2: it's on the reveal and get in on the Nancy

1238
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:42,880
Speaker 2: Siboka experience because she's a director whose name I think

1239
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:45,720
Speaker 2: we should know and whose career I could have and

1240
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:47,919
Speaker 2: should have been a bigger deal than it turned out

1241
01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:48,400
Speaker 2: to me.

1242
01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 3: Well, I guess, I mean those do sound interesting and

1243
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:57,280
Speaker 3: available and stuff like that. But you know, if you

1244
01:06:57,280 --> 01:07:00,440
Speaker 3: want to hear more about why, you should try to

1245
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:02,960
Speaker 3: find a way to watch The Fall instead. There is

1246
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:05,920
Speaker 3: our Patreon. The episode we did with Elliot kaelin of

1247
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:09,320
Speaker 3: the Flophouse is still there or strangely enough, you could

1248
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:12,680
Speaker 3: go to the AV Club, where a writer put up

1249
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:15,120
Speaker 3: an entire essay about why you should watch The Fall

1250
01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:18,160
Speaker 3: in connection with the Fall guy, I feel like somebody

1251
01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:21,240
Speaker 3: is carrying on the torch at the AV Club, and

1252
01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:24,280
Speaker 3: I feel pretty good about that. So, even if Scott

1253
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:26,200
Speaker 3: won't let me talk about it for another twenty minutes,

1254
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:34,640
Speaker 3: somebody else is out there doing the good work. That's

1255
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:36,440
Speaker 3: it for this edition of the Next Picture Show, but

1256
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:39,560
Speaker 3: we will be back next week with another set of episodes. Keith,

1257
01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:41,560
Speaker 3: would you like to tell us what we're talking about?

1258
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:45,360
Speaker 4: Our next period is inspired by Jane Shuen Brun's sophomore

1259
01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:48,920
Speaker 4: feature I Saw the TV Clobe seven large part in

1260
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:52,520
Speaker 4: nineteen nineties Suburbia. It's the story of the intense relationship

1261
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:55,080
Speaker 4: between the most ardent fans of a cult TV show

1262
01:07:55,480 --> 01:07:59,000
Speaker 4: who see reflections of their own burgeoning sense of sexual identity,

1263
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:03,800
Speaker 4: and it's vibrate mythology and monstrous threats both the suburban

1264
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:07,400
Speaker 4: setting and the film's blurry reality, not to mention Showan

1265
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:10,880
Speaker 4: Brun's own comments on I Saw the TV Glows inspirations

1266
01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:13,440
Speaker 4: put us in mind of Richard Kelly's two thousand and

1267
01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:16,960
Speaker 4: one cult classic Dottie Darko, in which Jake Jillen Hall

1268
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:20,800
Speaker 4: plays a troubled teenager experiencing strange visions about the end

1269
01:08:20,840 --> 01:08:23,519
Speaker 4: of the world. We hope you'll join us for both.

1270
01:08:23,840 --> 01:08:26,200
Speaker 3: For now, we welcome your feedback on The Stuntman, The

1271
01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:28,519
Speaker 3: fall Guy, and anything else film related you'd like to

1272
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:31,120
Speaker 3: talk about. Email us at comments at Next Picture Show

1273
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:33,400
Speaker 3: dot Net, or leave us a voicemail at seven seven

1274
01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:37,240
Speaker 3: three two three four nine seven three zero before we

1275
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:39,599
Speaker 3: close out this week's episode. Where can we find everyone

1276
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:40,160
Speaker 3: these days?

1277
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:45,080
Speaker 8: Genevieve, I am still the TV editor at Vulture, still

1278
01:08:45,320 --> 01:08:50,519
Speaker 8: mostly sticking behind the scenes there, and I am still

1279
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:54,479
Speaker 8: mostly sticking bey the scenes on social media at Genevieve Kaski,

1280
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:58,360
Speaker 8: although now that you know my garden is coming in

1281
01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:02,080
Speaker 8: for the season, I'm all over Instagram with the garden pictures,

1282
01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:04,599
Speaker 8: So if that interests too, you can head over there.

1283
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:05,839
Speaker 6: Scott.

1284
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:11,120
Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, I'm interested in the garden stuff. Yeah. I

1285
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:14,799
Speaker 2: am kind of doing a little bit of social media

1286
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:18,760
Speaker 2: on Exit at Scott Underscore Tobias and a Blue Sky

1287
01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:23,160
Speaker 2: at Scott Tobias without the underscore, but pretty light, reasonably

1288
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:25,680
Speaker 2: light except if there's a basketball game and then then

1289
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:29,559
Speaker 2: I'll live skeet it or something, and then you can

1290
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:33,360
Speaker 2: find my work primarily at the Reveal of the newsletter

1291
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:36,759
Speaker 2: that I run with Keith. That's the Revealed dot substock

1292
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:38,479
Speaker 2: dot com. And my work is also at The New

1293
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:41,840
Speaker 2: York Times, Vulture, Guardian, other fine publications.

1294
01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:44,800
Speaker 6: Keith that's right, the Revealed sub dot dot com. I

1295
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:48,040
Speaker 6: write there too. You can also find me on social media.

1296
01:09:48,160 --> 01:09:52,599
Speaker 6: KF have three thousand, mostly on Blue Sky. My wife

1297
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:56,080
Speaker 6: has lovely gardening photos of her Instagram, but maybe of

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Speaker 6: limited interest to our listeners. And I write for places

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Speaker 6: like Vulture, The Ringer, TV Guide, and SATSA. I'm all

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01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:07,840
Speaker 6: over the place. You'll find me. Yeah, Tasha, how about you?

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Speaker 3: I am the film and streaming editor at Polygon dot com.

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01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 3: You can find me writing more and more often there

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01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:17,240
Speaker 3: as I try to cram in a one hundred thousand

1304
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:20,760
Speaker 3: interesting films that are coming out lately. I'm on Blue

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Speaker 3: Sky at Tasha Robinson. Hey, I'm on Instagram. I don't

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01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:27,160
Speaker 3: even know how to give people my Instagram info. Maybe

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01:10:27,200 --> 01:10:29,360
Speaker 3: you can just like look for me following all of

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01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:31,920
Speaker 3: the other people here that are already on Instagram and

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01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:34,360
Speaker 3: that you already follow. You can stay updated on the

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01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:36,880
Speaker 3: Next Picture Show at next pictureshow dot net and on

1311
01:10:36,960 --> 01:10:39,760
Speaker 3: blue sky at the Next Picture Show. You can get

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01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:42,800
Speaker 3: bonus content and open discussion at patreon dot com slash

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01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:45,920
Speaker 3: Next Picture Show, and as always, we appreciate your rating

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01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:49,519
Speaker 3: and reviews on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere else you

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01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:51,960
Speaker 3: listen to the show. Thanks to Dan the Big Jakes

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01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:54,759
Speaker 3: for his assistants in producing this podcast. The Next Picture

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01:10:54,800 --> 01:10:56,479
Speaker 3: Show is proud to be part of the Film Spotting

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01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:58,879
Speaker 3: family of podcasts. Please tune in next.

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Speaker 2: Time as

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Speaker 6: UM back