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Speaker 1: This is the Meat Eater podcast. We're recording just outside

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Speaker 1: of Kasan over Wisconsin. UM, in the Driftless Area of Wisconsin.

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Speaker 1: Moments ago, I was asking my friend here, who's who's

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Speaker 1: joining us today along with the honest but tell us

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Speaker 1: that was a confusing sentence. I'm joined right now by

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Speaker 1: j Honest to tell us and Doug Dern. And moments

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Speaker 1: ago I was asking Doug Dern if he had heard

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Speaker 1: the term driftless area of Wisconsin as a child or

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Speaker 1: if it was just some kind of new marketing scam.

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Speaker 1: And the answer is yes, but it really has become

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Speaker 1: more prevalent in the last you know, ten to fifteen years. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So the word that term comes from is, you know,

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Speaker 1: during the Ice Ages, glaciers leveled the Midwest. That's why

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Speaker 1: it looks the way it does, flat and homogeneous. Um.

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Speaker 1: But the glaciers missed this spot. They're like spread apart

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Speaker 1: and split apart. They saw Doug standing there in all

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Speaker 1: his hugeness, and the glaciers just didn't want to tangle

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Speaker 1: with him and went around the driftless area and left it.

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Speaker 1: Much topography like we're pissing distance from brick trout stream,

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Speaker 1: beautiful brick trout Stream. We're a thousand yards if from

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Speaker 1: where we just killed a turkey this morning. Oh, I

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Speaker 1: would say we're five yards from there from where we

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Speaker 1: killed a turkey this mor We're way closer where Doug

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Speaker 1: is downed a lot of nice bucks. Well yeah, in fact,

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Speaker 1: I one eye down that's hanging on the wall over there,

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Speaker 1: which probably doesn't work on a podcast, but uh, it

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Speaker 1: actually died right down here by the barn. I know

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Speaker 1: that story. So yeah, we're we're in Doug. Like Doug

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Speaker 1: Derren's family for several generations has had this farm here,

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Speaker 1: um going way back hundred fifty years. In this final

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Speaker 1: that's what we're recording, this old farmhouse. It's just what

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Speaker 1: they called the buck check. Knox is full of giant

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Speaker 1: bull ucks. Um, we're gonna talk a bunch about that. Oh.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna tell you about the Driftless Area though.

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Speaker 1: I was up and up on Lake Superior, Ashland, Wisconsin,

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Speaker 1: and the guy up there has got a sugar shack.

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Speaker 1: This guy named Bill Hart, hell of a nice guy.

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Speaker 1: He's got a sugar shack up there, and he in

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Speaker 1: response to the Driftless Area and all of its coolness,

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Speaker 1: he has on his bottles of maple syrup. He writes

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Speaker 1: from the famed drifted area of Well, that's a great thing.

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Speaker 1: When you get getting something in some kind of label

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Speaker 1: or marketing thing going, you can try to take you down.

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Speaker 1: Trying to take you down. But yeah, this part of

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Speaker 1: Wisconsin doesn't look like the normal Middle I mean there's

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Speaker 1: a ton of topography around here, in rock out croppings.

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Speaker 1: This used to be like Indians used to hide out

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Speaker 1: here when they're trying to hide from the army. That's

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Speaker 1: a great area. And in the honest else the Latvian

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Speaker 1: lover and hunter. You guys got a Latvian camp not

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Speaker 1: far from here, talk about that. Why do the Latvians

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Speaker 1: like this place? As far as I know, they settled

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Speaker 1: here when they all came over during the Second Well,

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Speaker 1: some of them came over before the Second World War,

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Speaker 1: but most of them emigrated during the Second World War.

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Speaker 1: But it was very similar to Latvia's topography and landscape,

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Speaker 1: so it felt like home. Yeah, there's only about three

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Speaker 1: million Latvians alive today, something like that. One million in Latvia,

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Speaker 1: two million in the US. Is that right, I think

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Speaker 1: too in Latvia and then million worldwide. So explain that

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Speaker 1: place you hunt on if you don't need to give

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Speaker 1: like the GPS coordinates. But no, it's very similar topography

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Speaker 1: to hear. You know, just beautiful oak ridges, you know

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Speaker 1: oak flats. You know a lot of little bowls that

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Speaker 1: just kind of, you know, peel off the main ridge.

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Speaker 1: And uh, there's no agg. A lot of the neighbors

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Speaker 1: have agg around us, but the country that we hunt,

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Speaker 1: it's all just basically big oak forest. Yeah. It's a

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Speaker 1: bunch of Latvian mugs who all bought property by each

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Speaker 1: other to be by each other. And there's a Latin

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Speaker 1: all owned once by maybe like one main Latvian guy,

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Speaker 1: and over the years it got divided up, but it

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Speaker 1: stayed in the Latvian communey and there's a Latvian pagan

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Speaker 1: church camp Yep. It's spent a lot of time they're

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Speaker 1: growing up. Is there is there a lot of Is

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Speaker 1: there a lot of instruction involved with turning someone into

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Speaker 1: a pagan? No, not much at all, really, you just

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Speaker 1: kind of go with what seems very natural. They teach

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Speaker 1: you a lot about nature, yes, Like, um, what's the

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Speaker 1: word I'm looking for? I think we were talking about

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Speaker 1: this word the other day. Yeah, it's definitely do you

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Speaker 1: find God in nature? It's like, what's that? What was

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Speaker 1: the word for it? Not like polytheism, multi goods, there's

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Speaker 1: like a word for finding God in the land. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so there's evidence. There's like the wind mother, and there's

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Speaker 1: you know, the um uh, like the god that takes

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Speaker 1: care of farm animals, and then there's like the God

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Speaker 1: that watches over wild animals and the like. There's just

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Speaker 1: like kind of you know, God's kind of do their

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Speaker 1: own little thing all about you in life. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think animism might be the word I'm looking for.

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Speaker 1: I can't believe Dug the fact checker during is a

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Speaker 1: fact checking that. So, yeah, Yanni hunts turkeys here totally coincidentally,

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Speaker 1: we came out the way Wisconsin runs are turkey seasons

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Speaker 1: is and some dudes were complaining about this last night.

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Speaker 1: I gave a talk at the university last night, and afterwards,

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Speaker 1: instead of waiting in line to meet me and shake

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Speaker 1: my hand, Janice went to a bar um and got

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Speaker 1: to yapp with some guys in the bar and never

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Speaker 1: complaining about the Wisconsin runs their turkey seasons. But Wisconsin

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Speaker 1: Divide has a not doesn't have a long Turkey season,

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Speaker 1: but has many short Turkey seasons that make up a

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Speaker 1: long stretch of time. Yeah, I think you guys got

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Speaker 1: like a B, C, D F and G season. I

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Speaker 1: think there's an E in there also and a youth C.

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Speaker 1: I don't know you said six. I counted to six,

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Speaker 1: but I thought, but you didn't say. Oh, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: just want to think number seven. It does go F

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Speaker 1: to G the alphabet you went, you skip d um

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Speaker 1: minor issue. Yeah, I'm not. I'm confident in my ability

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Speaker 1: to say the alphabet. So when you put in when

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Speaker 1: you apply to hunt turkeys Wisconsin, you gotta pick a zone.

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Speaker 1: What's Tommy zones at State? But I think there's only

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Speaker 1: three or four Now, I'd have to look at the

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Speaker 1: man Zone one. Yeah, we're zone one and that's pretty

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Speaker 1: much the whole southwest corner. Um, I don't remember. And

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Speaker 1: if you're a nonresident and you don't have any bonus

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Speaker 1: points saved up, and you put in for zone one

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Speaker 1: in season A, you will not draw the tag as

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Speaker 1: I now understand. Like I didn't draw it. You might

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Speaker 1: have a chance to draw it. Yeah, but I didn't

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Speaker 1: get it. That's to get the first crack. But you

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Speaker 1: don't just get the first crack, because there's a youth

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Speaker 1: season that's get the first crack. But that's almost like

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Speaker 1: too early of the first crack. They're not like hot

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, I guess, but um ah, I know the

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Speaker 1: people have pretty good success in it. And certainly the

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Speaker 1: birds have been active the last two or three weeks.

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Speaker 1: There's not a leaf on the trees, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's like buds. They'll be probably the two weeks it

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Speaker 1: will look leafed out. Oh no, no, no, we're two

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Speaker 1: weeks probably from well some of them will be like

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Speaker 1: the soft woods, the willows and red maples. Will you

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Speaker 1: be getting there, But you know, we're still waiting for

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Speaker 1: that most here size that you found the when the

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Speaker 1: morals will be up. So it's a couple of weeks off.

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Speaker 1: Yet we went out this morning, just walked out of

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Speaker 1: Doug's farmhouse up the main valley here um to the

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Speaker 1: end of the field. Heard one freaking gobbler And that

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Speaker 1: was a long ways off. And I wasn't even sure

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Speaker 1: it was a gobbler when I first when I first

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Speaker 1: heard so far away, but I mean it certainly was.

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Speaker 1: But he didn't do anything by fly down time. He

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Speaker 1: had shut up, and we hunted our took uses off. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: hunter our asses. I can't say the hunter asks off.

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Speaker 1: We listened around a fair bit and eventually called in

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Speaker 1: two towns. It didn't make a peep. We got one

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Speaker 1: half gobble out of one after we were staring at

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Speaker 1: for twenty minutes. Yeah. These I was sitting there trying

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Speaker 1: to get comfortable and taking nap. It was like getting

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Speaker 1: that time of day nine in the morning, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, couldn't get my head quite how I wanted it,

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Speaker 1: you know, to sleep. And also I noticed like the

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Speaker 1: top of a tail fan maybe seventy yards eighty yards

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Speaker 1: away and there's two gobblers out there strutting that just

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Speaker 1: never made a sound. You know. We had a decoy

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Speaker 1: out and we had to said it a little crossroad

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Speaker 1: what you guys called the big woods, right, Um has

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Speaker 1: said a little crossroad. And those times come in saw

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Speaker 1: the head must of it just set to Stratton and

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Speaker 1: then we kind of toyo Raulphi for long time. Adventually

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Speaker 1: they came in. It was a great They were convinced. Man,

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Speaker 1: they were he was ready to make love today there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was ready to make love to the decoy. Him

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Speaker 1: and his body. That was just the great twenty minutes

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Speaker 1: or half an hour of observing turkeys and watching them

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Speaker 1: do what they want to do. And I kept thinking,

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Speaker 1: can they see that decoy? And from where we were,

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Speaker 1: we thought, well, maybe they couldn't see the decoy. So

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Speaker 1: after we killed the one, UM, I walked up where

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Speaker 1: they had been while they could clearly see the decoy,

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Speaker 1: and they just they just they just waited. They were

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Speaker 1: waiting for her to come and and um, giving full

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Speaker 1: credit to Steve Ronella and the calling job, he was

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Speaker 1: so subtle and so quiet. That's how I talked a lady,

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Speaker 1: even though I was talking about smooth like butter and uh.

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Speaker 1: And then he stopped because they wouldn't. They didn't move

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Speaker 1: for twenty minutes. They just were in full struck because

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Speaker 1: I overcalled. My specialty is getting turkeys attention. And then

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Speaker 1: once they once I got it, I feel like I'm

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Speaker 1: like the puppeteer man, it's so hard to shut up. Well,

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Speaker 1: if they had been gobbling, it would have been impossible

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Speaker 1: to shut up. He's like this, I can make him goblin.

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Speaker 1: And it was just one short It didn't even wasn't

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Speaker 1: even a full gobble no, and then they and then

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Speaker 1: you shout. If you around the woods listening, you'd heard

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Speaker 1: that and been like, I don't know what was that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was just like a half ask gobble, but there

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Speaker 1: were mature birds, you know. Give give a recap on

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Speaker 1: your morning, man. I played hard to get on our

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Speaker 1: second set up this morning and it did not work.

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Speaker 1: It did not pan out. I was very confident because

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Speaker 1: hard to get worked for me about four days ago

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Speaker 1: in California, and he kind of cruised on the opposite

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Speaker 1: side of the ridge that we were set up on.

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Speaker 1: I heard him gobble four or five times as he

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Speaker 1: went by. Well, we never heard we. I would have

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Speaker 1: thought we could hear your birds, but never heard that

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Speaker 1: any of that. Yeah, there's a little bit of wind.

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Speaker 1: I think it's actually blowing from you guys to us,

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Speaker 1: so that would oh, it was quiet. If there would

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Speaker 1: have been birds goblin, we would have heard him. Well

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Speaker 1: that's not true because they go within half a mile

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Speaker 1: of us. But anyways, he gobbles. I've been calling every

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Speaker 1: ten or fifteen minutes, just you know, one little set

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Speaker 1: of helps and I can hear him gobbile by us

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Speaker 1: and kind of goes away, and I'm thinking, man, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna we'll give him one more call. If we can't

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Speaker 1: turn him, we got to go chase him. And the

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Speaker 1: next time he gobbles, he's like, come up on top

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Speaker 1: of the ridge, and then he gobbles again. He's a

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Speaker 1: little bit closer. You're probably thinking you're gonna kill the bird.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah. At that point, I'm like, I'm gonna give

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Speaker 1: one more soft little call, and I'm gonna set the

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Speaker 1: call down. And the next thing is gonna happen is

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Speaker 1: you know, Tie is gonna pull the trigger and set

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Speaker 1: that call down. And thirty minutes later, it was as

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Speaker 1: quiet as it had been at that moment, And so

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Speaker 1: it didn't work, you know, And I don't know if

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Speaker 1: I if I had called more, had I pulled him

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Speaker 1: in an hour later? I think we end up spooking

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Speaker 1: that bird with either another gobbler or with a hand,

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Speaker 1: maybe had two hands. I don't know. We spooked three

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Speaker 1: birds not far from where we last heard. Did you

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Speaker 1: see the bird? Not when we're not when I was

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Speaker 1: working him. I saw him an hour later when we

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Speaker 1: but when you quit calling, you didn't see. But when

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Speaker 1: he gobbled, I was like, he is at a hundred

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Speaker 1: or less and he's closing the dish alone. I'm just

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Speaker 1: gonna set the call down. It's nice when a gobbler

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Speaker 1: has the courtesy to gobble a lot when he loses interest.

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Speaker 1: But let you know, because then you can gauge like

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Speaker 1: this is going the other way, and then you know,

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Speaker 1: just to like no holds barred, like any you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like, what's the lose now, I'll just make insane noise,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'll be like I'll do my hand dying noise,

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Speaker 1: you know, like anything, because but when they just shut up,

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Speaker 1: you're thinking, he shut up. He's coming to you like,

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Speaker 1: you know, here fifty misses, like it's gotta because he's

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Speaker 1: walking over here, you know. But then like you know,

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Speaker 1: when nothing happens, you stand up and he's just gone.

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Speaker 1: Every thing that happens turkey hut. We're talking with us

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Speaker 1: the other day. Is we used to hold out west

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Speaker 1: You can sneak up on turkeys. You know, we used

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Speaker 1: to get where you knew the round the other side

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Speaker 1: of the ridge. You call and call and call, and

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Speaker 1: nothing happens, like oh they must have wandered off, and

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Speaker 1: you stand up. They're still standing there, but like you

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Speaker 1: just suck at calling. It's a pro this just don't care.

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Speaker 1: Before we get onto farther turkey stories. Let's just take

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Speaker 1: a quick break to our sponsors. Very smooth. My other

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Speaker 1: morning set up, I just got very lucky. We heard

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Speaker 1: birds goblin on a classic like point off of a field.

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Speaker 1: They were up above us. You had like a season

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Speaker 1: is worth of turkey hunt this morning, and we gotta

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Speaker 1: had a lot of good turkey hunt this morning. And

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Speaker 1: we got in right underneath them at the bottom, and

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Speaker 1: I think they flew down into the field kind of

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Speaker 1: a way from us, and we had time to drop

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Speaker 1: a decoy in sitting against a tree, and I looked

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Speaker 1: back up on the horizon. I could see, you know,

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Speaker 1: them moving, and I made one little scratch and they

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Speaker 1: were walking down the hill and it just happened to

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Speaker 1: be that they were gonna come right down that How

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Speaker 1: do you know that, I don't, but it just seemed like,

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Speaker 1: you know, they were very confidently coming down that hill,

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Speaker 1: and I don't They couldn't see the decoy at that point.

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Speaker 1: You only there. Well, you just never know. You never know.

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Speaker 1: That's the problem too with hunt hunting, lots of hunting turkeys,

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Speaker 1: like you're always doing stuff you don't know, Like today,

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Speaker 1: I could say, well, once those two that were I

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Speaker 1: don't want to say they were hung up because they

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Speaker 1: weren't like suspicious. They were just strutting the odd of range.

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Speaker 1: Once I started being like, Okay, that's gonna scratch the

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Speaker 1: leaves and purr, right, and eventually they came in. So

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Speaker 1: now do you sit and go like, oh the trick,

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Speaker 1: the trick is scratched leaves and purr or was it

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Speaker 1: just that they came in even though I was doing that?

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Speaker 1: You know, it's so hard to You gotta see things

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Speaker 1: happen again and again and again and again and again

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Speaker 1: before you start formulating an idea. But I'm coming to

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Speaker 1: see that shutting up when you got a bird, it's

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Speaker 1: just he's responding. He likes what he hears. It's in

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Speaker 1: your best as as fun as it is just to

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Speaker 1: get him to keep him talking. It's just give it

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Speaker 1: ten minutes, give it fifteen minutes now and then and

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Speaker 1: see if that doesn't move that bird way in your direction.

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Speaker 1: And that ten minutes when we sat there was both

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Speaker 1: really short and really long. It's just like and I

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Speaker 1: did without having to watch. You can't tell. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: can't tell I have how long is this going on?

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Speaker 1: But it was, you know, just to watch him. I

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Speaker 1: mean that was the visual on that was, you know,

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Speaker 1: kept your interest in the numbness of my leg and

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Speaker 1: shoulder and my neck up against the tree. It all

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Speaker 1: went away. Checking those birds out man. Yeah, I was

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Speaker 1: saying after that was over, if you're like hunting turkeys, man, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can't tell you what I said, but I said,

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Speaker 1: if you don't like turkeys, you can expletive deleted exactly

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Speaker 1: you can. Yeah. Um, so yeah, during's farm. Now, tell

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Speaker 1: these guys, tell listeners about like when you were a kid,

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Speaker 1: about the deer situation out here. I remember that. This

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Speaker 1: is a way ass interesting story. Wow, that's uh uh,

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Speaker 1: it's a big deal. When I was a kid, you

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Speaker 1: saw a deer out in the field, I mean you

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Speaker 1: got a car and drove. I mean somebody said, hey,

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Speaker 1: it were some deer out on mcglenn's Ridge or Cunningham

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Speaker 1: Ridge or something like that. You drove out there and

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Speaker 1: checked it out. Um, the deer in this area, we're

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Speaker 1: over in the Bearable Bluffs, the Barable Hills. Um. Prior

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Speaker 1: to that, I remember my brother David did a speech

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Speaker 1: conservation speech when he was in seventh or eighth grade

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Speaker 1: about the management of the white tailed deer. Is he

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Speaker 1: an expert? No, he was doing one of those you know,

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Speaker 1: competitions at school or whatever. And uh, he did a

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Speaker 1: great job of it, as I recall, under some very

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Speaker 1: difficult circumstances. Should I tell you what that was. He

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Speaker 1: had kicked in the growing and was all swollen up

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Speaker 1: and and the night that he gave that speech was

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Speaker 1: in incredible pain. Yeah, and he did a great job

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Speaker 1: of it. I think he got second place. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: he'd have wanted had he not not taking a blow too. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But through the uh management program of the of the

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Speaker 1: Department Natural Resources. Um. And when I was a kid,

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Speaker 1: you would you'd have to if you want to shoot

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Speaker 1: a dough, you'd have to have get four guys together,

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Speaker 1: like months ahead of time and sent in for a

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Speaker 1: party permit. So one guy or you would get one

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Speaker 1: dough tag for four guys, so your deer tag was

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Speaker 1: a buck tag. Um, and then there would be this

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Speaker 1: one tag for four guys to be able to shoot

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Speaker 1: a doll. Let me dre up because I'm doing a

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Speaker 1: bad job of hosting right now, because just for people

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Speaker 1: who live in all their areas or who don't follow

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Speaker 1: this kind of thing. This area right now, like right

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Speaker 1: now is the good old days on deer or maybe

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Speaker 1: a couple of years ago is the good ol days. No, no,

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Speaker 1: I would say, right. It's just this place produces tons

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Speaker 1: of deer, and it's famous and becoming for gigantic bucks,

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Speaker 1: and we should be able to produce more of them.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know how hop on a soapbox I

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Speaker 1: want to get about, you know, deer management. We have

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Speaker 1: too many deer in my opinion, and where I hunt

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Speaker 1: and what I you guys are in the these This

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Speaker 1: area is also part of the c w D, the

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Speaker 1: chronic wasting disease on the northern edge of it. Chronic

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Speaker 1: wasting disease goes hand in hand with shiploads of deer. Oh,

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Speaker 1: you don't get c w D in the area that

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Speaker 1: doesn't have a lot of deer, that's right. High deer

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Speaker 1: density makes a big difference. And and then to control

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Speaker 1: the diseases, you want fewer deer. And um, there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of reasons to to have fewer deer in

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Speaker 1: this area. And and again you know, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what other guys experiences are in various parts of the

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Speaker 1: state and all that I just know around here and

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Speaker 1: on the land that i'm hunting, which is our farming

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Speaker 1: a little bit in the area around it. I'm not

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Speaker 1: hunting that, but seeing it, we have way more dearer

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Speaker 1: than than what we should have. And from a forestry perspective,

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Speaker 1: from well, it depends if what you want to see

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Speaker 1: as a ton of deer, I guess you should be

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Speaker 1: happy as a clamp. But uh, if you want to

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Speaker 1: have deer in the future, then we should have fewer deer.

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Speaker 1: Now we're gonna I mean, it's possible that we'd have

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Speaker 1: a crash of the of the deer here heard here,

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Speaker 1: because because our habitat will be depleted. Um, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: there are guys who are gonna, you know, from around here,

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Speaker 1: got each other over discussion. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, No,

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Speaker 1: it's a heated discussion. And I still think, say, I'm

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Speaker 1: old enough. I'm fifty six years old, and I'm old

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Speaker 1: enough that there are in my generation won't shoot a

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Speaker 1: doll and you know it's just that way. You don't

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Speaker 1: do that. Oh, I know tons of old guys like

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Speaker 1: that because they come from the day when they were

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Speaker 1: any well, right, but the mentality, I mean you have

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Speaker 1: to shift that mentality. A lot of a lot has

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Speaker 1: changed about deer hunting, and one of the things is

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Speaker 1: the numbers. But if I want to back up, yeah, yeah,

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00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:20,520
Speaker 1: I know, because I was just trying to set the

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00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,600
Speaker 1: stage that right now there's a ton of deer, giant

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Speaker 1: box for this area right now is the good old

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Speaker 1: days of deer hunt now I was, But yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean look at this. I wish you could see this

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Speaker 1: room like I'm staring eye to eye right now with

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Speaker 1: the buck known as the standard. I don't know, I

386
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Speaker 1: want to talk about the standard, because that's that to

387
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 1: me in the story of this area, like the standard

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00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:46,960
Speaker 1: at for YouTube like that deer sort of like is

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00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,359
Speaker 1: this like sort of the epitome. Yeah, it's like this

390
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Speaker 1: really important moment in this area. So dogs growing up,

391
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Speaker 1: it would be a big deal to cut a deer track.

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00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,479
Speaker 1: You now live like your family lives. And I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you're gonna sit down and list like top and

394
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Speaker 1: white tail locations in the u S, you probably wanted

395
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Speaker 1: them to be around here. And you're a man always

396
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Speaker 1: drove north the year. Yeah, Dad always went up north.

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Speaker 1: He hunted. They're still guys in this area that go

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00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,280
Speaker 1: up there for the tradition of it. Uh. He went

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Speaker 1: and hunted up in Phillips. They lived in a tent

400
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Speaker 1: for you know, a week or ten days. Um. And

401
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,000
Speaker 1: then when I was a kid twelve years old, we

402
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,320
Speaker 1: uh hunted up in that area, and then we hunted

403
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Speaker 1: by red granite. Um. And because Dad want us to

404
00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,800
Speaker 1: have that North Woods you know experience and all that,

405
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 1: like pulp wood yeah yeah, and alder swamps and that

406
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 1: kind of stuff and cedar swamps and uh, I think

407
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Speaker 1: the first three years that I deer hunted, I saw

408
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Speaker 1: three deer. And then I started playing high school basketball.

409
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:55,639
Speaker 1: Yeah dug, big tall bastard anyway, Wait around anyway, So

410
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 1: I started playing high school basketball, and so you had

411
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Speaker 1: to be here. And then sudden we started hunting the

412
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Speaker 1: farm and I'm on out opening day, shot first buck

413
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Speaker 1: in the fourteen years old Bang there was a buck?

414
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Speaker 1: What the hell are you going up there for? Um?

415
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Speaker 1: And I you know, and as I say, I appreciated

416
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 1: that that experience and everything, but you know, in terms

417
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 1: of just really getting to hunt deer, this is the

418
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,639
Speaker 1: place to do it and that, but that was like

419
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,359
Speaker 1: a little surprising. Then you were like, oh wow, there

420
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,119
Speaker 1: was deer here all along. It was like coming. It

421
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 1: was all happening at the same time I was getting

422
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Speaker 1: it was that uh seventy mid seventies, early seventies, seventy

423
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Speaker 1: three and seventy round. No, no, it had a horn

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00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,680
Speaker 1: on it, you shot it. But it was still the

425
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,680
Speaker 1: party tag thing. So all you could shoot we're bucks

426
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 1: because you know, unless you had the party tag um.

427
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 1: And you know I got involved with that with some

428
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 1: other guys. Um. And if those guys are listening right now,

429
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 1: they're chuckling about it. But um, so anything with antler

430
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 1: on it, you shot. And really that was the mentality

431
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 1: here for a long time, and in the eighties when

432
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,120
Speaker 1: the deer herd really started to explode. And I didn't

433
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:11,399
Speaker 1: live here from nineteen eighty five until h n nineties,

434
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 1: so there was I lived in New England for a

435
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 1: few years and it actually did in deer Hunt for

436
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 1: five years. Uh So then um came back in the

437
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 1: nineties and you know, um a you know, two and

438
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 1: a half year old um six point or eight point

439
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 1: or maybe it was a year and a half old buck.

440
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 1: UM probably couldn't have been but that was a hundred

441
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 1: ten inches or something like that. And for those of

442
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 1: you know what how big that is. That was a

443
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 1: big deal. That's at that same time, late eighties, early nineties,

444
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 1: like when I started hunting. I guess I did my

445
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 1: first league. I killed my first deer and I was thirteen. Um,

446
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 1: you shot. This is West Michigan, so just across Lake

447
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 1: Michigan from Milwaukee. You shot. If you saw a buck,

448
00:23:58,240 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 1: you shot that thing. Oh yeah, and that was something.

449
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 1: Tell it here to my old man killed a two

450
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,360
Speaker 1: and a half year old buck, like a nice eight

451
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: point two and a half years old. That's something. That

452
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 1: deal was in the newspaper. You It's like you did

453
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 1: not bucks didn't live. I think that the year and

454
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: a half old bucks will do it all the we're

455
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,159
Speaker 1: breeding all the dogs because there were It's just you

456
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,160
Speaker 1: just shot. You would sit there and you see does

457
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:29,400
Speaker 1: come out at dusk. You sit there just like hallucinating,

458
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 1: spike antlers on him behind the ears. It's like you

459
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,120
Speaker 1: just shot bucks. And I understand, I'm not even down

460
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 1: on it, man, I understand it's like super complicated. But

461
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 1: if you saw a buck, if you kill the forky,

462
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 1: you had a fantastic year. First bucket shot had one

463
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 1: antler and I was on cloud nine. That's a bucket

464
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: shot when you started basketball? Yeah, where'd you start hunting?

465
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:00,640
Speaker 1: Just forty and worth of here? Oh that's your deer

466
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,719
Speaker 1: hunting too. Well. We hunted in southwest Michigan and over here. Um,

467
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: I think in Michigan we can start hunting in twelve

468
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 1: and here it was fourteen fourteen with a gun. Twelve

469
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,919
Speaker 1: of the bow Michigan to Michigan's four team was fourteen

470
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: with the gun. Oh, so I had it mixed up

471
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 1: because I killed my first deer of the gun before

472
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: I was supposed to. Ye, statue of limitations has run

473
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: out on that violation, I hope. Plus they changed the

474
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 1: rules now they it wasn't my fault. At that age,

475
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: you're like, you're sort of an instrument of your father.

476
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: You're not like a I think the Bible says when

477
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 1: you're old enough to like not butter bread, But like,

478
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 1: at what age are you capable of reason? I don't

479
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: know anyhow if I had murdered someone and I'd be

480
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 1: out of jail long time ago. With about how you know?

481
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: So you're when you're thirteen is not held responsible. Um,

482
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 1: you guys, you guys just shoot teeny bucks. Then, you

483
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: know what I was gonna say. It's interesting because that

484
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 1: time period two so I started hunting probably round like

485
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 1: late eighties, early nineties to must have been so two

486
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: eight two. I think I killed like a little crotch

487
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: warner my first year. But those early years and the

488
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: five years before I actually started holding the carrying a gun,

489
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 1: just coming out here with my dad. I remember those memories. Finally,

490
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: of driving in. We'd always come in it would be

491
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 1: late nine pm, and every big field within like the

492
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 1: last five miles of getting to camp, we would swing

493
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: the headlights onto the field and just start counting. You know.

494
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 1: That was like I look forward to that. You know,

495
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: that was like so exciting because and we'd count. Often

496
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: times you'd hit over twenty you know on one field.

497
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 1: You know, just deer everywhere. And as the years went on,

498
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: it got to be less and less and less and less,

499
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: and right now, I mean I haven't been back in

500
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 1: probably four or five years. The last couple of times

501
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: I've gone back, I had one hunt. I went back

502
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 1: and hunted three and a half days hard and did

503
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 1: not see a deer. Yeah, like five years ago, and

504
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,919
Speaker 1: they're having tough hunting right now up there, right now,

505
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 1: and a lot of them are blaming it on the

506
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: you know, being in that t zone. They had some

507
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: tough weather too. And again, these guys only haunt the

508
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,919
Speaker 1: opening weekend. I think I want to say, last year, right,

509
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 1: if you hunted only opening weekend last year, you didn't

510
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 1: see any deer. I fog the whole time. It was. Yeah,

511
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: I remember I was texting you rain, rain, fog, snow,

512
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: and I mean driving snow the first three day days

513
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: on this farm. You know how many deer there around here.

514
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 1: I'm sitting up there comfortably in a box, blind, comfortably

515
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: sunrise to sunset, and I saw six deer in the

516
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 1: first three days. And I didn't think anything of it.

517
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: They're just not out. It's not happening. Uh. After Thanksgiving Day,

518
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: killed the dough on Thanksgiving Day, killed two bucks. On

519
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 1: the next day we saw hunts of deer. And then

520
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 1: when we hunted, I had a bunch of friends come

521
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: out over the holiday hunts people all famous people from Kazanovia. Uh,

522
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: certainly the my favorite some of my favorite peo, not

523
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: all of my favorite people from Kazanovia of but but

524
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: certainly some of them and their kids. And in the

525
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:28,880
Speaker 1: course of three hours, no joke, deer, we killed only two.

526
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 1: But um uh, but that that amount of deer there's

527
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: so you know, you're just talking about how his deer

528
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: hunting changed, and you know and all that. So the

529
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: numbers are different. But the other part of it is

530
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: you can hunt a lot of different places. And I

531
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: control this land, you know. I mean I've had last

532
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: year and over thirty people deer hunts out here over

533
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: the course of the seasons. Yeah, you know, different veries.

534
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: You know. That's nice. And they weren't all famous. Dog

535
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: got accused of only that famous people filmed out here

536
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,239
Speaker 1: and had some famous people out hunting here, and Dog

537
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: got a cues on letting famous people hunt his land.

538
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: And then the guy down the bar stool comment that

539
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: just the other day Dog had ten people out there

540
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: and he sure was hell an't famous. So now you

541
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: got me. Uh No, I'm glad I got you because

542
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: I want to I want to change this drag. I

543
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: don't want to change the subject. I have a quick

544
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: question though, for you. I do you feel like just

545
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 1: forty miles north of here. It could be a big

546
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,479
Speaker 1: difference of what is going on here because you are

547
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: kind of micromanaging just you know, I don't think it's

548
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: me micromanaging this spot. So yes, I feel like that

549
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: could happen, especially when you said, well there's egg around.

550
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on up there. Um. I

551
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: think there's been some good changes to dear management. I

552
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: think some of the bad changes have been. Um, you know,

553
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: they took away the rbuk uh from the biologists to

554
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: you know, to uh to help manage the herd. I

555
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: want to explain the earn a buck all right? To

556
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: encourage people to encourage hunters to shoot does right if

557
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: you're trying to reduce the population and also take pressure

558
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: off of box. You know, wildlife managers use a tool

559
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: called earn a buck where, um, you can't shoot a

560
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: buck unless you shoot a dough first, that's right. So

561
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: if you just think about I don't want to dwell

562
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: on this subject too long, but deer are born basically

563
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: like like humans, a one to one sex ratio. Okay,

564
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: for every dough that drops or every dough fon that

565
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 1: drops out of a dough, a buck fon is gonna

566
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: drop out of one or humans are female deers somewhere

567
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: right in there. And when you're sitting out there and

568
00:30:54,560 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 1: you see five does and one buck you're looking at,

569
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: you're not seeing a natural population dynamic. If what you're

570
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: seeing is actually representative of what's there, you're not seeing

571
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 1: a natural dynamic. There would be a healthy Most people

572
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: who understand why it's hill deer would say that a

573
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: healthy population of dear the racial is not that skewed

574
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: high buckeddoor ratio. Yeah, it's never gonna be. It's never

575
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: gonna be one to one because they just have They

576
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: just have an easier time dying and they don't live

577
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: as long bucks don't. But it should be substantial. Well

578
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:39,719
Speaker 1: it was anyways. I don't want to, I don't want

579
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: I just want to explain, like earn abut people are

580
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: gonna be like, what the hells that means? They got

581
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,959
Speaker 1: rid to earn a bux And I understand why they did,

582
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: because there's places like I don't even talking about that

583
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: where that was what maybe the blame was placed on.

584
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: Why there are fewer deer. Uh. I even though I've

585
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: hunted with some DNR guys, I've never seen a d

586
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: n R guy kill a deer. Hunters killed deer. So

587
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, it's always the hunters

588
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: who are going to be managing the deer. And that's

589
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: you know, it's and and that's the mentality that I

590
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: have here. I do what I think is right for

591
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: our property, um, based on the guidelines, are based on

592
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: the seasons and the structure that that those uh, that

593
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: the the deer managers have. I thought arnerbuck was a

594
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: good thing. We still have it here. I mean, we

595
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: shoot more goals and we shoot bucks here. Um. And

596
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: and the liberal uh and I mean liberal lots of

597
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: dough tags certainly could be a reason for it, whether

598
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: there's a reason for it, um. But that's you know,

599
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 1: management within a particular area, I guess is the way

600
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: I feel that, you know, the hunters are way more

601
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: in control of that. And I think some of the

602
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: changes that have happened in the deer management have been good.

603
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: But UM, I still have an awful lot of faith

604
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: in in UH that was that's an apartment of natural resources,

605
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: big game managers and how they put you know, season

606
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: structures together. I like the fact that we've shrunk it

607
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: used to be really big zone serve like it is

608
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: a Turkey with much bigger zones. Now it's going much

609
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: more on the county to county basis, and I think

610
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: that's going to take into account more of that. You know.

611
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: You you get an area like where you're hunting up there,

612
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: where there are a fewer here. Well, why is that?

613
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: Well I'm not exactly sure because I don't I don't

614
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: hump there, but you guys should have a better feeling

615
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: for that. That's the thing these Eastern states, Like what

616
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: the state. I grew up in zone one to three,

617
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 1: So all in Michigan, right, you got the whole state,

618
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: eighty three counties. They would break it up into three units.

619
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: Basically divide the lower peninsula a half and make the

620
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: up its own unit. You go out west, they draw

621
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: units by watersheds. Yeah, you're look at to say and

622
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: be like, there's units in the state because you're fine

623
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: tune in your management plan in a way that allows

624
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 1: you to account for all these little micro things like

625
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: you take the arias Tom about me, like, well you

626
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: know what, that spot doesn't have any dear. It's a

627
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: great management tool if you can be like, okay, so

628
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 1: let's talk about that spot and not talk about this

629
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: whole half of the damn state. Yea, you know, because

630
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 1: it just really allows you to get into it. There's

631
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: a guy, I think it was Frederick Jackson Turner, there

632
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 1: was some environmental historian. He went back and argued, if

633
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,839
Speaker 1: we really wanted this way off topic, but he went argued,

634
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: if we want, we really wanted to govern the country

635
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,359
Speaker 1: in a better way, we'd get rid of the state

636
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 1: lines we have now and draw our states according to watersheds,

637
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 1: talking about government that way, you know, and give people

638
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: a sense than having these arbitrary straight lines cutting through

639
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: things that shouldn't be cut through. Like you you live

640
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: in a it wasn't always watersheds, but you live in

641
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: like a specific like geo region. Yeah, you know, Well

642
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 1: think about it. The back of our farm, the uh

643
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 1: where my cabin is, and the pond up there, that's

644
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 1: in a different county. That's an different deer management zone. Now, yeah,

645
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 1: the pond is essentially the that that runs north south,

646
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: that's the Richland Stock County line. So that's in a

647
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 1: different management zone. No, Well, there's always gonna be some art.

648
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 1: You're always gonna draw a line. Like when you draw

649
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: that line it's gonna cut through a damn deer. Right,

650
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,240
Speaker 1: It's like half the deer is gonna be there's probably

651
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 1: d right now, half of them. Then one man's But

652
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 1: if you took your premise and said the watershed, well, hell,

653
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: we're talking about the same little valley there, and uh

654
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,760
Speaker 1: that's where they draw a lot of managing. But again,

655
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: I'm trying to pry and narrative out a dog here,

656
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: and I keep um teasing it out and then stomping

657
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 1: on it when he gets into it. I kind of

658
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: want to. I want to get into the whole like

659
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: better next year. Nice next year, So nice bug next year.

660
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,919
Speaker 1: It sounds very interesting. And to keep these podcasts coming

661
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 1: to you for free, we're gonna take thirty seconds to

662
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 1: listen to our sixty seconds. Sixty seconds. It's an infro

663
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: from our supporters, all right, so they're back in time.

664
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 1: There weren't shipped for deer around here. Then they started

665
00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 1: to be getting a lot of deer here in the

666
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 1: driftless area, and everyone shot every buck they saw on site, right,

667
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: and then we went to the dogs late brother Matthew, Matthew,

668
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: Oh really yeah, I just my my new son's named Matthew,

669
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 1: did you make that connection? Doug's late brother says, what

670
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: Doug so out at the milk part. So, yeah, this

671
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 1: deer that I was telling you that I killed within

672
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,399
Speaker 1: a stone's throw this this died, I should say, within

673
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 1: a stone throw of the of the house here was.

674
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 1: You can't see it, but it's that one with the

675
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 1: black velvet up there on the and that was the

676
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 1: biggest buck that I had killed to date. You know,

677
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: at that point, little Palm made it eight point um, like,

678
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: you know, that's gotta be Yeah, like a lot of guys,

679
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 1: I mean it should I be. I mean it's like

680
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: a cool buck. I shot it across the road. It

681
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: jumps to crack ky lung, shot jumps the creek, goes

682
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 1: through the gate that we walked through this morning. There

683
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 1: was no gate at the bottom of the hill. Then

684
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: crosses the road, come up, comes up through these pines.

685
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 1: Matthew is sleeping upstairs because he already got his buck,

686
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 1: and he looks out the window thinks I'm like messing

687
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: with him because where I shouted over anyway, it ran

688
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: down through here, and he he thinks, I'm messing No,

689
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 1: and did not. There was a very there was some

690
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: very quick but correct decisions made about the shots that

691
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 1: were taken. And uh, he looked out the window of

692
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 1: the upstairs bedroom and saw that deer coming up through

693
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 1: the pine trees outside of here. Comes down the stairs,

694
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,320
Speaker 1: grabs his deer rifle and hands and he's got his

695
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: long John's on. Grabs his deer rifle and his orange jacket,

696
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,399
Speaker 1: so he's legal. Comes out the door. That hole that's

697
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: in that porch door out there was from that day,

698
00:37:55,400 --> 00:38:01,399
Speaker 1: which is twenty years ago, one years ago. That deer

699
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: goes over, goes in between the silos over there and

700
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 1: lays down and but it's still alive. It's you know,

701
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: it wasn't hard shot. It was long shot. So and

702
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: so we go around and, you know, safety conscious as

703
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 1: we were, we're trying to finish it off. And my

704
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: dad is walking across the top of the hill and

705
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: he wonders, what the hell is going on? Comes down

706
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 1: the hill. Uh, Matt and I are, you know, trying

707
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: to get the deer out of there. And it gets

708
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: up and it goes down by the milk house and

709
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 1: kind of collapses again, and and you know it's we're thinking,

710
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: well we should slit its throat. We gotta be safe here.

711
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 1: My dad walks up to it, blam, shooting through the neck.

712
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: Stuff's getting, you know, thinking when we were doing the

713
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: right thing. He look for God's sakes, you know. So anyway,

714
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 1: there was quite a lot of excitement had uh boy,

715
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 1: you know, so we're all congratulating each other and talking

716
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 1: about how this whole thing went down and grabbing the

717
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: deer and I'm looking at it. I'm going, man, what

718
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 1: a great buck. And I'm dean and Dad's like, well,

719
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: that's terrific. And Matt, who's the quietest of all of us,

720
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 1: kind of looks at it and goes, yeah, but that

721
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: had been a nice buck next year, and that really,

722
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 1: that conversation that came from that ended up being really

723
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: where we started doing bigger buck management here. Um just

724
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 1: let him slide. Well, It's what I started thinking then,

725
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 1: was well, Okay, that's the biggest buck I've shot to date.

726
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 1: The next one is gonna be bigger than that. And

727
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: we started talking about it. Unfortunately, he died three months

728
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 1: later in a car accident just right down here on

729
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 1: the on the highway. But we started talking about that

730
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: was what we had been planning that whole winter. It

731
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: was more of our management at that point. And uh

732
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: in two thousand and three, after um, some changes in

733
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 1: the group that hunted here. Uh, after I had instituted

734
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: some rules. Um, everything that you see and here has

735
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: been shot other than that buck has been shot since

736
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: two thousand and three, plus four or five others. And

737
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: I know you go, well, sorry, I guess describing it

738
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: very well, but you can see the progression. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

739
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: To give you an idea, that the one of the

740
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: black velvet that Doug shot there twenty one years ago

741
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,240
Speaker 1: out in the backyard here, he might be a hundred

742
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 1: inches right, most people call a basket rack, although he's

743
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,800
Speaker 1: a little bit wider than your average basket rack. But

744
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,360
Speaker 1: uh yeah, in our camp in Michigan, we would have

745
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: been tickled to shoot a buck like that. I never

746
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 1: shot a buck like that in Michigan. Yeah. And then

747
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 1: every good, every good numbers go around the room and

748
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: just shout out numbers. Uh. There's a couple of others

749
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: that are like in that one, like twenty type class,

750
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: but not many. Everything else that jumps significantly significantly up

751
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: into the one thirties, one forties, right, I mean there

752
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: might be a couple are like the upper row over there,

753
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: it's like one, you know, mid one thirties. Uh, and

754
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 1: then there's just some gigant or bucks. And then of

755
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 1: course the standard. Are we to talk about him yet? No,

756
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 1: what's talk about staying in a minute. But I want

757
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 1: to point out here because this is an important fact

758
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 1: to point out. All this talk about big box and

759
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 1: age structure, right demographics, Like I almost forget to bring

760
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 1: this something that really needs to be stressed. The poundage

761
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 1: of of venison, the poundage of meat coming off to

762
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: property is increasing through all this. It's not like you're

763
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: going like, oh, we you know, we used to shoot

764
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:34,800
Speaker 1: deer and eat some venison, but then we decided piste

765
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: on that, and now we just shoot a giant buck.

766
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: Now on that you're still talking about like all the

767
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: dear meat you want because you're shooting does more than

768
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 1: more than we've had. I mean, I have friends who

769
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 1: non hunting friends who are like, hey, if you get

770
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: an extra deer, if you have, you know, I'd like

771
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: to get some venison as well. You know, I'll drop

772
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,800
Speaker 1: I'll drop on off at the at the the butcher

773
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 1: for you. I got it out right down there, and

774
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 1: and and so I do that. Um, like I said

775
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 1: in the late season, I had you know, friends out here.

776
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 1: I told those guys that day, let's shoot six or

777
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: eight dolls, and we only got two. But um that

778
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,800
Speaker 1: wasn't because there wasn't some other shooting done. Ah, and

779
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,839
Speaker 1: those left. I mean, yeah, I mean I have all

780
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 1: the venice, and I want all the time. That's what

781
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Like, in simplified terms, you might look at

782
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 1: it that when I when I was growing up, you'd

783
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 1: sit there and see a bazillion dolls, praying that you'd

784
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: see a buck, any buck any one saw, they'd kill.

785
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 1: Another way of looking at it, I mean to the

786
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,320
Speaker 1: point where you'd have twenty dolls for every buck running around.

787
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: Another way looking at it would be shoot dos. Let

788
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,800
Speaker 1: a lot of those small bucks walk. You're still filling

789
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 1: your freezer after a couple of years. I mean, this

790
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: is grossly simplified, But after a couple of years you

791
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 1: might be that you're still shooting dolls and putting me

792
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:01,240
Speaker 1: in the freezer. And now and then bam, you shoot

793
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: a buck. That's like the old days, a buck that

794
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: just got old, you know, that was allowed to reach

795
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 1: maturity three or four year old dominant bark. Yeah. And

796
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:20,360
Speaker 1: the interesting thing, UH to me is that that the

797
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 1: buck that I shot on Friday of last year that

798
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: measures in a nine pointer measures about a hundred and

799
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 1: fifty inches, was aged by an expert at two and

800
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 1: a half years And when I looked at the teeth,

801
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 1: and knowing what I know about it, I said, yeah,

802
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,879
Speaker 1: I can't disagree with you. So what's happening there? Well,

803
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:46,919
Speaker 1: maybe genetic selection, but also um, well, I think that's

804
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: a part of it, but I think there's a herd

805
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 1: health component. I meant to tell you this earlier that

806
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,839
Speaker 1: I talked with Keith Warnicky. I hope I'm pronouncing his right.

807
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 1: Who's one of the big game managers. He's in fact,

808
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 1: he's UM I think he said ahead of it, UH

809
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 1: for d n R. And we were talking. I was

810
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 1: talking with him about that, and UH he was explaining

811
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: to me that statistics show that there in in especially

812
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 1: in southwest Wisconsin, that the average size of the buck increases,

813
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 1: buck's taken increases dramatically with the UH number of dose

814
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: taken in the same area. Yeah, it makes sense to me.

815
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 1: We had a bit of an infamous character I don't

816
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: like to speak ill of the dead, but it's bit

817
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 1: him an infamous character who was uh lives south of

818
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 1: us here. That's the only people I like to speak

819
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:39,879
Speaker 1: ill of us the dead, because you don't gotta worry,

820
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:42,839
Speaker 1: all right, was his name? We don't worry about him

821
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 1: coming back? Yeah, well anyway, Yeah, his name was Randy

822
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 1: Hanko and a guy that I grew up with, and

823
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: and he, as I said, he was a bit of

824
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 1: an infamous character. But he uh on the farm just

825
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: to the south of us here and got a bunch

826
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 1: of egg tags and he shot twenty one drop damage checks. Yeah,

827
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 1: thank you. Uh, he shot twenty one deer antler this

828
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: deer one winner. And the next year is when that

829
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 1: top row over there, which is the hundred thirty deer

830
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: started showing up. And I told that to Keith last night,

831
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: and he goes, that's what we're seeing. And I believe.

832
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:21,240
Speaker 1: I mean, so he has the the data, the scientific

833
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:23,800
Speaker 1: data that shows that I'm telling you, I've got the

834
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: anecdotal uh stories that that's what happened here too, So

835
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 1: you know, I believe that, and and I believe that

836
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 1: in in my situation in the surrounding area. Um, there's

837
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: a road on the back side of the farm. It's

838
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 1: about three miles long. You can take a h it's

839
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: a talent road. And you can take that drive in

840
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 1: the in the late winter or the early spring in

841
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 1: the evening and see a hundred deer And that's just

842
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: too many deer. And those are all living on my farm.

843
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 1: I mean they're living all over the place, you know,

844
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 1: but too many? Like like, define what me, each man,

845
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: because here's the thing, here's the thing I often catch

846
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 1: myself saying. I catch myself saying, here's the thing. I

847
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 1: purposefully say now, and now someone talks about like, oh,

848
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:13,800
Speaker 1: deer are overpopulated, I'd like, from whose perspective? Car insurance

849
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: companies sure overpopulated. Agricultural interests, sure overpopulated. Car insures they

850
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 1: don't want to pay out premiums to people who are yeah,

851
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 1: busting their car upon deer egg interest because they're losing

852
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:31,320
Speaker 1: crop damage, or insurers who are ensuring crops and you

853
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 1: know someone's paying, right. So I'd be like, from my perspective,

854
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 1: how can I say, dear overpopular? In fact, there is

855
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: a thing. From a hunter's perspective, there is such thing

856
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: as overpopulation. We touched on this earlier, but it just

857
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 1: has to do with forest quality, has to do with

858
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: other species. Like explained a little bit that like and

859
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 1: I want to get talk about the state. We've got

860
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:57,439
Speaker 1: too much to talk about. I want to talk about

861
00:46:57,440 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: the standard. Would talk a little bit about like you're

862
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 1: we're trying to bring back certain native trees on your

863
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 1: property and how that ties into like rough grouse, how

864
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 1: that ties into forest health, white tails, turkeys, all that bs.

865
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 1: So Uh, our woods here is predominantly the hardwoods, but

866
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 1: our predominant species are red and red and white oak.

867
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 1: And you have seen the popa stands out there as

868
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 1: well or aspen stands. Uh, they're shag bark, hickory, and

869
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:30,840
Speaker 1: a few others. But in the driftless area, the biggest

870
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,880
Speaker 1: component of the woods that we're in danger of losing

871
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 1: is the red and white oak because we don't have

872
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 1: the fires and some of the things that brought that

873
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 1: on um years ago. So as a part of our

874
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 1: management planing of our woods, we're cutting in a shelter

875
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,840
Speaker 1: woods called the shelterwood harvest. It's a particular method of

876
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,280
Speaker 1: of managing the woods. Uh. Up in our big woods

877
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 1: were cutting the trees that were little trees when my

878
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 1: great grandfather bought this place. And you know that I

879
00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: wanted her up saying, Doug, besides me, dog, besides doing

880
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:03,759
Speaker 1: land manage on your own land. As a profession, Doug

881
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 1: does land management. So this isn't just he says anecdotal.

882
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: But I just want you the audience to realize that

883
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:15,240
Speaker 1: Doug is a it's very studied, a professional land manager.

884
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:18,399
Speaker 1: So so take as he's talking, keep that in mind.

885
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 1: But this isn't just some dude talk about what he's

886
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: seen on his hunted acres. He's down selling, he's down

887
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 1: selling what his role in this and his background of this. Well,

888
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: but I've also I relied greatly on um foresters and

889
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 1: ecologists and and you know, I think the thing that

890
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 1: I know more than anything is to be able to

891
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 1: take information from different people and understand it. But anyway,

892
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,760
Speaker 1: red oaks going to ship red oaks going, yeah, we're

893
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:48,320
Speaker 1: losing red oak. Well, so deer hunters and turkey hunters

894
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 1: know that that dear love white oak acorns and they

895
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: loved to browse on red oak seedlings. So uh, we

896
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 1: did a plan to up on fourteen acres up here

897
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: behind the buildings where we planted and it was a

898
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 1: uh crp planting every other row red red oak, white pine.

899
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 1: And the idea was that the white pine would train

900
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:13,839
Speaker 1: the red oak to grow tall and straight and become

901
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 1: quality hardwood. Well what happened, yeah, for competition for some

902
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:20,880
Speaker 1: sunlight and it would you know, train them. And so

903
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 1: what ended up happening is we created almost the perfect

904
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: scenario for white tailed deer. We've got bed and and

905
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 1: the oak trees are in a row that they're just

906
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 1: walking down like oh, there's a lollipop. There's a lollipop.

907
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: There's a lollipop, and and and so we had these

908
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 1: little bushes up there. So that failed. We planted uh

909
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 1: six hundred oaks to the acre I think in six

910
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 1: hundred or maybe it was a thousand oaks the acre

911
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,799
Speaker 1: and a thousand pines to the acre. Um up where

912
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:50,880
Speaker 1: we're doing that cut up on on top up in

913
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 1: the big woods. The shelterwood harvest, which is this is

914
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 1: natural regeneration receding um and there's some techniques involved with that.

915
00:49:57,920 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 1: We have places up there that we have ten thousand

916
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: seedlings breaker I mean, it's a carpet of them in

917
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 1: the fall up there. Um, so you know the premise

918
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 1: there is that well, even with deer population and all

919
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 1: of that, some enough of them are going to survive

920
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: to get up to that point where they're going to

921
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:17,320
Speaker 1: be above the brows line of the deer. But along

922
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,359
Speaker 1: with that is that we need to shoot a lot

923
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: of deer to you know, keep to discourage them or

924
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 1: to or to keep monitor, which is a part of

925
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 1: why I bring other people in and I'm always encouraging

926
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 1: people to shoot does or young bucksy. Yeah, what I like.

927
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 1: I I was out here on a couple of years

928
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: ago and you had kind of a number in your

929
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: head of what you were hoping to see the trail, cammages,

930
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 1: our things, what you're hoping to see them off in does?

931
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:42,279
Speaker 1: I said, it doesn't for trying to get some red

932
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 1: oaks to get enough to grow up. And uh we

933
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 1: were everything was all our crop land was in uh

934
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 1: production at that time. So um it's now in crp

935
00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 1: um And so you know it's a really it's you know,

936
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: sort of a constant balance of uh science and feel

937
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:11,759
Speaker 1: an art um. But that you know, that's a big

938
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 1: part of what's driving me. So from a from a

939
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:17,320
Speaker 1: deer hunting perspective. Of course I want good hunting, and

940
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 1: of course I want to see a certain amount of deer,

941
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 1: but I also want to balance that ecosystem and balance

942
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 1: the you know, I want to grow those oaks. A

943
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 1: hundred years from now, this family, this farm is going

944
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 1: to be in my family. And a hundred years from now,

945
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 1: those oaks that are up there now that we're cutting

946
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 1: are going to be replaced if we do this correctly,

947
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,800
Speaker 1: um by the seedlings that are ten thousand of the

948
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 1: acre up there, and a hundred years from now, there

949
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 1: will be deer in tier crazy and it will be

950
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,879
Speaker 1: fifty or sixty those trees left, the best ones. Um

951
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 1: And so that's a part of my management strategy. So

952
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 1: when I say there are too many deer, that's what

953
00:51:55,760 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 1: my perspective is on it. Um M. I know hunters,

954
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 1: and I know I have a couple of clients that

955
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:06,800
Speaker 1: all they want is more dear And you know the

956
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 1: truth is they don't have the deer that we have.

957
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I I go with I understand they're

958
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 1: feeling there. Yeah, I want to see more deer, and

959
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 1: why it's because they don't see that many. You know,

960
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 1: maybe like honest is talking about where where he's at

961
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 1: up there, and so we do things that we can,

962
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 1: you know, to encourage that. But the cool thing to

963
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 1: me about good forest management and good woodland management I

964
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 1: like gold woods rather than forest, uh, is that it

965
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: really is compatible with good wildlife habitat um. Turkey hunting,

966
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,400
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just beautiful up there. Squirrel hunting is

967
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 1: still great up there. Um when you you know, you

968
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 1: open up those clear cuts and there's a lot of brush,

969
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:48,800
Speaker 1: there's rabbits in there, you clear cut those aspen stands

970
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,759
Speaker 1: and we didn't. I hadn't seen a rough grouse or

971
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 1: heard a rough grouse here for years. And two thousand

972
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 1: and one when we did the first couple of clear

973
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,319
Speaker 1: cuts and we did have aspen. Two years later, boom bump,

974
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:02,800
Speaker 1: we heard the John Deer tractor up there. Rough grouse.

975
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 1: I love that noise. And I always say, there's some

976
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 1: guy trying to get his lawnmower started. Yeah. Well, so

977
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 1: the interesting thing to me I was having a conversation

978
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:14,719
Speaker 1: with one of the wildlife biology students last night. Um,

979
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 1: you know the Wild Turkey Federation pheasants forever uh trout unlimited, Um,

980
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 1: those are the three that I can think of, what

981
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 1: what's the number one thing? All of those organizations do habitat.

982
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:36,920
Speaker 1: M white tails live anywhere. Those other species have to

983
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:41,320
Speaker 1: have habitat a specific kind of habitat. And you know,

984
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 1: pheasants forever say says build it and they will come.

985
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: And I don't care that much about pheasants. I would

986
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 1: if there was a way to uh to um. I

987
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 1: wish I could stock grousse. I mean, it's just not

988
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 1: you know, rough grouse. It's not possible. So the thing

989
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:00,399
Speaker 1: that I can do is to try to do things

990
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 1: about the in the habitat. And it's good forest management,

991
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 1: and quite honestly, it's good economic forest management too. We

992
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 1: took that popple off at you know, fifty or sixty

993
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 1: years and we were getting nice pulp wood out of it.

994
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 1: We were getting nice bolt logs out of it. Um

995
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 1: and uh oh. And woodcock is the other thing, of

996
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 1: course that we have go through here. And I'm working

997
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,360
Speaker 1: with the Fishing US Fish and Wildlife Service on a

998
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 1: on a plan for our bottom in there too to

999
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:30,319
Speaker 1: make that less mature, because the woodcock like that better.

1000
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:33,400
Speaker 1: Woodcock and grouse kind of like the same habitat so

1001
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 1: white tails. On the other hand, hell, he'll live in

1002
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 1: your backyard, you know. So and so that seems to

1003
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 1: be one of the differences. And that was pointed out

1004
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 1: not only from you last night that I learned a

1005
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 1: few things, but um from talking with those folks, uh

1006
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:54,960
Speaker 1: the wildlife biology student and then the big game manager

1007
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:58,239
Speaker 1: and uh so those are the kinds of things that

1008
00:54:58,280 --> 00:54:59,880
Speaker 1: are in my mind when I'm not when i'm wor

1009
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 1: on this property and thinking about how we want to

1010
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:05,280
Speaker 1: manage this property, but also when I'm working with my clients.

1011
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 1: Properties are are unique, but the driftless area is still

1012
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:11,360
Speaker 1: the riference, and most of my clients are in the

1013
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 1: driftless area. So all right, so tell me talk about

1014
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 1: the standard for a minute. So two thousand and five,

1015
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 1: my wife and I just built that cabin up there,

1016
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:27,319
Speaker 1: and I just pop that little road that comes down

1017
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 1: through that you guys walked down, and uh, we had

1018
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:34,240
Speaker 1: seen this, dear. In fact, I'm pretty sure I actually

1019
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 1: shot that deer of the year before hit him missed. Yeah,

1020
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:39,800
Speaker 1: I hit him, nicked him in the back leg with

1021
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 1: a rifle, and yeah, yeah, I'm almost sure that I

1022
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 1: You know how it's easy to tell a story about

1023
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:51,600
Speaker 1: the deer you killed, but the ones that bother you

1024
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 1: are the ones that that you missed or that got away.

1025
00:55:56,800 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 1: And uh, I'm almost sure it was that deer. It

1026
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 1: was certainly that gene big, wide, heavy, it's not super tall,

1027
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:08,440
Speaker 1: but it's you know, twenty when it was green, it

1028
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 1: was two ft inside, you know, sixteen points, lots of

1029
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 1: stuff on it. Um. And I had seen that deer

1030
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 1: was aged at four years old, so you know, he

1031
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:26,680
Speaker 1: got there pretty quick, and he got there pretty damn quick. Yeah. Anyway,

1032
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:30,920
Speaker 1: Um that the year before, I nicked this buck that

1033
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:33,840
Speaker 1: in my mind looked an awful lot like and it

1034
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 1: hit him in the in the back leg. Really just

1035
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 1: a horrible situation. One of those shots that you know,

1036
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 1: I think I talked about this before, um, and you

1037
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,839
Speaker 1: can put the bullet the man I would just I've

1038
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 1: rarely I don't regret any shot that I didn't take,

1039
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:50,320
Speaker 1: but that was one of those shots that I regretted

1040
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:52,800
Speaker 1: taking because I I should have killed him with the

1041
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,800
Speaker 1: first shot. And then you know, each shot after that

1042
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: gets more and more desperate, and I shot at that

1043
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 1: deer four times and I should have killed with the

1044
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 1: first shot. Because I had him, and then just and

1045
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:08,600
Speaker 1: I just got I ran up over here. So the

1046
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 1: next year, my wife and I are driving down on

1047
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 1: that little road and this little beater jeep that I had,

1048
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 1: and this deer gets up out of the this brush

1049
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 1: alongside that road and just lumbers into the woods. And

1050
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:23,240
Speaker 1: I went and my wife, who doesn't get excited about deer,

1051
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:28,520
Speaker 1: she goes, oh my god, look at the size of

1052
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:31,040
Speaker 1: that thing. And she's all excited about it, and you know,

1053
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 1: and I'm not. I mean, I'm just like, I couldn't

1054
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 1: even talk because it's going away minute. A two ft

1055
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 1: wide white tail going away from you. Looks like i'll moose,

1056
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 1: you know, And it's going away from me, going down

1057
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 1: this hill. We get down to the buildings and down

1058
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 1: here to the farm, and we're doing a couple of things,

1059
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 1: and I kind of came up with this idea that well,

1060
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 1: you know, I think that's where he lives, that's where

1061
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:52,960
Speaker 1: he beds. So I got the old tractor out and

1062
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 1: put the brush hog on and took a ladder stand

1063
00:57:57,320 --> 00:58:00,200
Speaker 1: and a hanger, put that back there, and I just

1064
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 1: drove back in the valley. Nothing happening here, just a

1065
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 1: guy out doing a little brush hogging, you know. So

1066
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 1: I took a little sweep through the brush and the

1067
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 1: stuff that was back there, clearing a little trail, got

1068
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 1: near this tree that's all forty yards from where that

1069
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 1: that betting area was left, the brush hog running, left

1070
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 1: the tractor running, put it in neutral, got out, strapped

1071
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:23,000
Speaker 1: that thing to this elm tree that is, you know,

1072
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 1: maybe eighteen inches in diameter. Strapped that thing to it.

1073
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 1: And I'm kind of a big guy. It's probably it's

1074
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 1: not a big enough tree. Got that hangar up there

1075
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 1: in the tree, got back down, got back in the tractor,

1076
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:39,320
Speaker 1: and drove like nothing happening. Here were just you know,

1077
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 1: brush hogging. Two weeks later we had an early um

1078
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 1: or a buck uh hunt. But you could kill a

1079
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:49,600
Speaker 1: buck if you had a dough tag, which I did have.

1080
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 1: And uh and sure enough I got up in that

1081
00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 1: I get up in that stand, I mean, and I'm

1082
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 1: holding onto a limb, got my rifle in my other hand.

1083
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 1: I'm holding onto a limb, I mean that stand. Fifteen

1084
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:06,200
Speaker 1: minutes do comes up out of the bottom and I

1085
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 1: hear and this brush comes around the corner and this

1086
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 1: his antlers. He walked up and this is the end

1087
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 1: of October and he walks up out of that bottom

1088
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:20,240
Speaker 1: thirty five yards, brings his head up, shot him right

1089
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 1: in the chest, went over backwards. I mean, just like

1090
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:28,200
Speaker 1: I planned it, it happened, and it was just it

1091
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:31,760
Speaker 1: was crazy. So my dad was still hunting at the time,

1092
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 1: and and so that was two thousand five, ten years ago,

1093
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:38,280
Speaker 1: and my nephew Sam, who hunts with us, and great kid,

1094
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 1: great hunter, very good hunter. Um on the radio goes

1095
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 1: Uncle Duck, Yeah, did you shoot? Yeah, because he can.

1096
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 1: They're they're awful ways and and so I can. He's

1097
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:56,520
Speaker 1: relaying that to my father, who doesn't hear very well,

1098
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 1: pretty legical this information. He goes, Grandpa wants to know

1099
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:02,760
Speaker 1: how big it is because he knew I wouldn't have

1100
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:05,240
Speaker 1: pulled the trigger unless and I just told him Sam,

1101
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 1: he isn't gonna believe it. And I mean that was

1102
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 1: I mean it was the jump went from a hundred

1103
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:16,440
Speaker 1: and thirty five inches too, you know, a hundred ninety

1104
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:19,960
Speaker 1: two inches on that's a that's a leap. There's not

1105
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:22,920
Speaker 1: a buck hunter in this country, in the world. They

1106
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 1: wouldn't want to have that. Dear, so talk, we're running

1107
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:32,280
Speaker 1: out time, we're run out into our self imposed time limit.

1108
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 1: But talk about oh the what happened with the tax

1109
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 1: neervice and stuff like. So, my dad has this little

1110
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:44,760
Speaker 1: white Chevy S ten pickup that he still has, and

1111
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:47,120
Speaker 1: uh so this is the end of October, it's kind

1112
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:48,480
Speaker 1: of a warm day. We hang the thing up in

1113
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:49,720
Speaker 1: the and so I didn't get a whole lot of

1114
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:51,960
Speaker 1: pictures of it. You see the one that was hanging

1115
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 1: up in the shed, and I call it. I never

1116
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 1: had a deer mountain before, So I call this taxi

1117
01:00:56,680 --> 01:00:59,240
Speaker 1: drumstover in Bear Valley and and I just kind of

1118
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:01,120
Speaker 1: described me just how big is it. I was like, wow,

1119
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 1: I didn't measure it or anything. I said, it's I'm

1120
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 1: I have size thirteen shoe and I can put two

1121
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:10,479
Speaker 1: of them inside the horns. He goes, so, you're gonna

1122
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 1: want to get that thing over here because it's warm

1123
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:15,520
Speaker 1: and the skin will start to out him. He's telling

1124
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 1: me all this stuff. I'm like, yeah, okay, So we

1125
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:20,720
Speaker 1: dropped that thing in the back of Dad's stend pickup.

1126
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 1: Now it looks like, you know, it's a big deer,

1127
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:23,960
Speaker 1: but now it looks like a moose laying in there

1128
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 1: by the time we get over to Bear Valley, we

1129
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 1: got cars behind us, you know, the lights on it.

1130
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:32,480
Speaker 1: We pull in and this guy mounts a lot of

1131
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:35,640
Speaker 1: deer and we pull in. I walk up to Bill

1132
01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:37,720
Speaker 1: and I said, uh, so, hey, I'm the guy who

1133
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 1: called about the He goes, oh, well, let's go and

1134
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 1: take a look at it. And there's trucks lined up.

1135
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 1: You know, guys are gonna back in and they're gonna

1136
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:46,640
Speaker 1: unload them, and they're because they're working on you know,

1137
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 1: he's got a whole assembly line there getting the skin

1138
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 1: off him and everything. He walks down there, take some

1139
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 1: one look at it, turns around and says, get all

1140
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:55,200
Speaker 1: these other trucks the hell out of the way. We're

1141
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 1: backing that one up in here right now. So we

1142
01:01:57,680 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 1: back it up in there, and of course they've got

1143
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 1: a that they used to pull the skin off to

1144
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 1: the head, and huy, old guy there stands there it

1145
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 1: looks at me, says, you know, if I killed that dear,

1146
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:12,200
Speaker 1: I didn't get the whole damn thing mount and I

1147
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 1: got a place to put it. So so they, you know,

1148
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:19,760
Speaker 1: they get it scun and and uh take it in.

1149
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 1: The guy starts working on the head and so a

1150
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:24,240
Speaker 1: bunch of dudes standing around, and you know, and I don't.

1151
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:26,200
Speaker 1: I only know a couple of these guys. But everybody

1152
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:29,000
Speaker 1: starts shouting out numbers and throwing the guys writing it

1153
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 1: down and throwing five bucks into a hat guessing how

1154
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 1: many inches it is. Guys are like one five, Oh,

1155
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:38,320
Speaker 1: you're full of ship. That's way bigger than one seventy five.

1156
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:41,440
Speaker 1: And it writes it down, and nobody guess two hundred,

1157
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:45,040
Speaker 1: And I said, okay, I'll say two hundred. Dude was

1158
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:47,920
Speaker 1: right on the green squarter. That one dude would hit

1159
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:50,720
Speaker 1: it right on the head. I don't know what he wants,

1160
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 1: but it was. It was a pile of money. That

1161
01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:54,440
Speaker 1: was quite a night. It was, you know, it was

1162
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 1: quite quite a quite a show. Next year, Yeah, he

1163
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:04,000
Speaker 1: might have had a dead buck next year. Well he

1164
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:07,480
Speaker 1: was a dead buck next year. Like he's old. He

1165
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:10,120
Speaker 1: was getting up there. Yeah he was four year old deer. Yeah,

1166
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:13,080
Speaker 1: what would he have been like at five? We don't know,

1167
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:17,200
Speaker 1: he's five year old deer. They started kind of rare. Yeah,

1168
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 1: so no, don't he would have kept getting bigger, right, Yeah,

1169
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 1: I certainly think so. Yeah, we were wondering that before.

1170
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:25,840
Speaker 1: How how old did they really? How old could a

1171
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:27,840
Speaker 1: deer get around here if it didn't get hit by

1172
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:32,120
Speaker 1: a car or shot or you know whatever, and you know,

1173
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 1: eight or nine I think is is probably the you know,

1174
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 1: the the limit of it. But you know, but it was,

1175
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:44,320
Speaker 1: I mean personally, once that happened. Um, that's that's when

1176
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:46,800
Speaker 1: I said, well, okay, so the rule about having the

1177
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:48,600
Speaker 1: next buck having to be bigger than the one you

1178
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:53,120
Speaker 1: shot this year, that changes now, so um, you know

1179
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:55,200
Speaker 1: so otherwise I would have never shot it, probably shoot

1180
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:56,919
Speaker 1: another deer in the rest of my life on this place.

1181
01:03:57,000 --> 01:03:59,440
Speaker 1: But um, you want to know what a good podcast

1182
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 1: whole sight M. I don't even give a sh about

1183
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 1: big white tills. I know you don't. I want to

1184
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 1: kill big the only thing I want to kill a big,

1185
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:11,200
Speaker 1: giant one of his mulder. Well, I find it remarkable.

1186
01:04:11,240 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 1: You might I might have just shot a boon or

1187
01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:16,720
Speaker 1: musk ox. I didn't know that. I'm not sure yet.

1188
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:19,480
Speaker 1: I might have got a boon or musk the coveted

1189
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:26,960
Speaker 1: boone and Crockett muskat. Uh No, But here's the Doug

1190
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:28,720
Speaker 1: and I have all. I want to wrap her up.

1191
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:32,440
Speaker 1: I want to do my concluding thoughts. Doug and I

1192
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:38,760
Speaker 1: have argued about this endlessly because I've had the fortune,

1193
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 1: the good fortune of I've never shot anything on this place.

1194
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 1: I don't think you haven't. And I haven't shot a

1195
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:49,040
Speaker 1: turkey out here, No, you have not. I don't shoot

1196
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:51,960
Speaker 1: anything on dogs property. But Doug, you haven't even shot

1197
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:56,200
Speaker 1: a rabbit on this property. Yes, I have no Those

1198
01:04:56,320 --> 01:05:00,920
Speaker 1: rabbits run place. What about those mallards that was on

1199
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:03,720
Speaker 1: my cousin's place. Yeah, every guy within thirty miles here

1200
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 1: is a during. Doug has even met live as cousins.

1201
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:09,720
Speaker 1: So it was not a during place right where the

1202
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:12,880
Speaker 1: mallars were and the Schmids place was that that big

1203
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:19,400
Speaker 1: rabbit place. So but I had where I took a

1204
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:22,840
Speaker 1: couple of for not for a second time hunters out

1205
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:25,960
Speaker 1: on Doug's place, and Doug as is saying, like when

1206
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:29,320
Speaker 1: people come out the hunter's place, Doug shows you the

1207
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:35,400
Speaker 1: top shelf, dear, and Doug says, if you're gonna shoot

1208
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:37,320
Speaker 1: a buck out my property, have it be that he'll

1209
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 1: fit in. He would fit in with those bucks. So

1210
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:44,360
Speaker 1: it's not like like he doesn't tell you like, oh,

1211
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:47,240
Speaker 1: it's gotta be blank inches or it's gotta be out

1212
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:49,400
Speaker 1: of the ears. He just says it should have its

1213
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 1: home in this in this collection of bucks is what

1214
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:59,120
Speaker 1: we're trying to do here. However, you're gracious enough where

1215
01:05:59,160 --> 01:06:01,800
Speaker 1: you say that people who are making their first visit

1216
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:06,680
Speaker 1: to the farm, if you see a buck and you're

1217
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:09,840
Speaker 1: excited about getting that buck, and that for you is

1218
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 1: like your benchmark, Like that's what you want. Go ahead

1219
01:06:15,600 --> 01:06:18,800
Speaker 1: the second time you come out. Screw you. Yeah, you

1220
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:21,160
Speaker 1: gotta shoot off the top shelf. As I told the

1221
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:24,920
Speaker 1: neighbor kid the other day or last year, I should say, uh,

1222
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, no, But but I would say we have

1223
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:32,400
Speaker 1: like I played Devil's Advocate with you a lot about

1224
01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:36,480
Speaker 1: the thing about like meat hunt or to shooting box,

1225
01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:39,840
Speaker 1: like not caring about the antlers. And I would say

1226
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 1: that over the years that I've been friends with you,

1227
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:49,040
Speaker 1: you have enlightened me and move me in the direction

1228
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:51,919
Speaker 1: of when it comes to white tales that like we're

1229
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:55,000
Speaker 1: talking about all the Leopold said last night that a

1230
01:06:55,120 --> 01:06:59,960
Speaker 1: hunter is like a forester. When you pick a tree

1231
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 1: and strike it with your acts, you're making your mark

1232
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:08,680
Speaker 1: on the landscape, right, And I've come to see through

1233
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:15,920
Speaker 1: you about uh managing white tails. Okay, that they're not.

1234
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:21,480
Speaker 1: They're not contradictory ideas. The management for for opportunity and

1235
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:26,080
Speaker 1: meat harvest is not incompatible with managing for mature bucks.

1236
01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:31,200
Speaker 1: But we have thought about this a lot, and seeing

1237
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:33,600
Speaker 1: what's happened out here and sort of the good times

1238
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:36,480
Speaker 1: and fun to happen out here has been educational for me.

1239
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:38,600
Speaker 1: And I've taken that and explain that to a lot

1240
01:07:38,640 --> 01:07:42,480
Speaker 1: of other people because I just haven't really been I

1241
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:46,160
Speaker 1: moved out west, you know, when I as soon as

1242
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:48,800
Speaker 1: I could, and I got out of the world of

1243
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:51,400
Speaker 1: white tails a little bit, and it's just been an interesting,

1244
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:53,800
Speaker 1: like sort of my lens back into white tailed culture

1245
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:55,840
Speaker 1: has been here, and it's been it's been very informative.

1246
01:07:55,960 --> 01:07:59,320
Speaker 1: That's my concluding thought. But but I've kicked and screamed

1247
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:05,800
Speaker 1: through these discussions. But I do see what you're doing,

1248
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:08,080
Speaker 1: and I see what you're after, and I think that

1249
01:08:08,160 --> 01:08:10,080
Speaker 1: people need to make sense of it. And people who

1250
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:12,080
Speaker 1: are just getting into hunting because they want to harvest

1251
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:15,040
Speaker 1: throwing food and stuff, they might be like, oh, yeah,

1252
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:17,519
Speaker 1: trophy hunters, blah bah blah. I think you need to

1253
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:20,479
Speaker 1: take some time and and and read up on this

1254
01:08:20,600 --> 01:08:23,559
Speaker 1: stuff because it's not as simple as you might think

1255
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:30,559
Speaker 1: it is. Dear long term, dear management, quality hunting now,

1256
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:34,120
Speaker 1: quality hunting for your kids, quality hunting for your grandkids

1257
01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:37,519
Speaker 1: without those ten year twenty year gaps where it sucks.

1258
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:47,640
Speaker 1: Isn't just it just doesn't happen on its own. And

1259
01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:51,960
Speaker 1: thought and science, thought, science and restraint play into that stuff.

1260
01:08:52,280 --> 01:09:00,080
Speaker 1: That's my concluding thoughts, Yohnny. Big antlers are magical and

1261
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:03,360
Speaker 1: it's so easy to demonize them, and oftentimes I think

1262
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:06,880
Speaker 1: that the whole trophy hunter thing is demonized now or

1263
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:09,800
Speaker 1: people want to do that and make it a bad thing.

1264
01:09:10,320 --> 01:09:13,559
Speaker 1: But it's like getting all those the community together around

1265
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:16,519
Speaker 1: your truck to look at those antlers. There's community going

1266
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:18,800
Speaker 1: on there and it's special, you know, and it's a

1267
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:21,200
Speaker 1: good thing to have that, to have everybody come around

1268
01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:23,240
Speaker 1: and talk about it and being excited about it. And

1269
01:09:24,240 --> 01:09:26,679
Speaker 1: I don't know whatever turned me on to being excited

1270
01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:29,600
Speaker 1: about big antlers. Obviously media has something to do with it.

1271
01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:34,800
Speaker 1: But Helen Show recent uh meat eater turned you know,

1272
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:38,080
Speaker 1: our our associate is now a hunter, killed her first

1273
01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:43,000
Speaker 1: elk um. If she was asking me about antlers, didn't

1274
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:47,040
Speaker 1: really get it wasn't really excited about it. Shot her elk.

1275
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:49,720
Speaker 1: Was at my house for butchering up her elk and

1276
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:51,560
Speaker 1: having to be out in the garage, and there's a

1277
01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:54,280
Speaker 1: elk head on one wall and a mule there on

1278
01:09:54,320 --> 01:09:57,360
Speaker 1: another wall. She got to looking at him, asked up

1279
01:09:57,360 --> 01:09:59,519
Speaker 1: a couple of questions. I answered him. An hour later,

1280
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:02,120
Speaker 1: she's like, can we take one of those down, you know,

1281
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:03,720
Speaker 1: so I can hold and feel and look at it,

1282
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 1: and she kind of admires it. Whatever. By the time

1283
01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:08,439
Speaker 1: she left at evening, she's like, I kind of want

1284
01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:11,280
Speaker 1: to shoot a buck, you know, if there's something special

1285
01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:13,519
Speaker 1: about that, you know, like what what is it? I

1286
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:16,120
Speaker 1: don't know, but they're magical. Could I have a second

1287
01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:19,120
Speaker 1: concluding thought? That's my concluding thought? I want a second one.

1288
01:10:20,439 --> 01:10:22,920
Speaker 1: The bucks were talking about and like the standard and stuff,

1289
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:25,160
Speaker 1: we're not talking about some bucks that are raised behind

1290
01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:28,080
Speaker 1: a fence. They bring in like some jars semen and

1291
01:10:28,120 --> 01:10:29,840
Speaker 1: in seven eight a bunch of does and then you

1292
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:32,680
Speaker 1: go down and buy them out of deer sale. These

1293
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:37,160
Speaker 1: are real bucks. You get run over by cars, shot

1294
01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:48,719
Speaker 1: at surviving the real damn dear, like genuine, real wild bucks.

1295
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:53,559
Speaker 1: They're gorgeous they really are. And I'll tell you something, um,

1296
01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:55,519
Speaker 1: and I'll try to make it part of my concluding

1297
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:57,960
Speaker 1: thought that it's got to be a concluding thought. My

1298
01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:01,680
Speaker 1: I get to just because it's my podcast, all right.

1299
01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:07,320
Speaker 1: The standard, AH, within a one mile radius of here,

1300
01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:09,960
Speaker 1: since two thousand and five, there have been at least

1301
01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:12,760
Speaker 1: three bucks bigger than that one killed here and within

1302
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:17,800
Speaker 1: a mile of this place one mile radius. Yeah, yeah, well,

1303
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:20,559
Speaker 1: I mean bigger horns. They are more inches of horns

1304
01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:22,800
Speaker 1: and you know, maybe not as massive or whatever, but

1305
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:28,479
Speaker 1: more inches and the way they score them. Uh. Thanks

1306
01:11:29,479 --> 01:11:33,000
Speaker 1: once again for putting into words in a way that

1307
01:11:34,360 --> 01:11:36,719
Speaker 1: I struggle with. That's one of my favorite things about

1308
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:42,880
Speaker 1: Steve Romello. Ah, it is you know, deer hunting is

1309
01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:47,240
Speaker 1: a part of what we're trying to do with our property,

1310
01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:50,519
Speaker 1: and I think it should be a part of ah,

1311
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:55,439
Speaker 1: the overall view of an area. I think it's a

1312
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:58,720
Speaker 1: big part of the future. It's been a part of

1313
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:00,800
Speaker 1: the past, and it's certainly part of the present. It's

1314
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:02,240
Speaker 1: gonna be a big part of the future of this

1315
01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:05,880
Speaker 1: area hunting in general, and it's really economically, I think

1316
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:08,200
Speaker 1: it's gonna be a big part of this area. Um.

1317
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:12,040
Speaker 1: And uh, I love the driftless area. I love the

1318
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:17,719
Speaker 1: Cansanovia area, Westford Township, Richland County, Bearable River, Willow Creek,

1319
01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:21,960
Speaker 1: and I just really appreciate that we've been able to

1320
01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:25,960
Speaker 1: bring some attention to it and uh have a lot

1321
01:12:26,040 --> 01:12:31,080
Speaker 1: of fun while we're doing that. Yes, sir, Yes sir,

1322
01:12:31,760 --> 01:12:38,120
Speaker 1: and Doug's cohorts got a turkey tag. Still, so tomorrow's

1323
01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:40,120
Speaker 1: gonna be up right and early. Now, you guys, I

1324
01:12:40,160 --> 01:12:41,920
Speaker 1: think I had to sleep in. We didn't. I didn't

1325
01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:44,040
Speaker 1: get to kill this morning. So I get to go

1326
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:46,639
Speaker 1: out again with Well, I'm gonna go out and sit

1327
01:12:46,680 --> 01:12:51,000
Speaker 1: against the tree up in the brush. Yeah, I'm gonna

1328
01:12:51,120 --> 01:12:54,360
Speaker 1: bring my I'm gonna bring a call. I'm just observed,

1329
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:58,760
Speaker 1: all right, thanks tuning in media podcast. Oh, a couple

1330
01:12:58,760 --> 01:13:03,880
Speaker 1: of things. Go to um uh Yanni's T shirt website

1331
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:06,240
Speaker 1: hunt to Eat dot com by a hunt to Eat

1332
01:13:06,320 --> 01:13:10,080
Speaker 1: T shirt. If you're single, that will solve your problems

1333
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:11,559
Speaker 1: when you got one of those T shirts on, because

1334
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:14,200
Speaker 1: you're the ladies are gonna look at you and they're

1335
01:13:14,200 --> 01:13:17,680
Speaker 1: gonna be like that man fills the freezer, that man

1336
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:24,599
Speaker 1: brings home the bacon um two bucks he's always out

1337
01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:27,760
Speaker 1: of stock, but he's stocking up right yep. Tell him

1338
01:13:27,760 --> 01:13:33,280
Speaker 1: the website www dot hunt to eat dot com, not

1339
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:38,000
Speaker 1: numeral hunt T O h U N T T O

1340
01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:41,519
Speaker 1: E A T B one y T shirts. Very important,

1341
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:46,000
Speaker 1: Um Doug during loan oak interests. If you got a

1342
01:13:46,040 --> 01:13:48,040
Speaker 1: chunk of ground you want to talk to someone. Uh

1343
01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:50,960
Speaker 1: he doesn't build you on the initial phone call called

1344
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:53,639
Speaker 1: Doug during talking about land whatnot. You'll be shooting Giant

1345
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:59,519
Speaker 1: bucks pretty soon. Uh me either. The TV show not free, Well,

1346
01:13:59,560 --> 01:14:01,400
Speaker 1: it is for if you got TV. If you don't

1347
01:14:01,439 --> 01:14:07,600
Speaker 1: have TV, me eater dot vas dot tv, download and

1348
01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:11,280
Speaker 1: stream meat Eater all night and all day. Thanks for

1349
01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:12,000
Speaker 1: joining us. Take our