Speaker 1: LinkedIn News.
Speaker 2: I mean, you're not gonna go to your manager and
Speaker 2: be like, hey, you're micro manager and you got a
Speaker 2: chill or you know, you're not giving me feedback and
Speaker 2: I'm struggling.
Speaker 3: I don't know if it is a little vocal, like
Speaker 3: this is not the vibe, but I think having that
Speaker 3: conversation and being like, I'm struggling because of you, Like,
Speaker 3: how do you go about that in a professional way?
Speaker 2: You know, like what's like the professional way of saying
Speaker 2: it's you, it's actually you?
Speaker 1: I would say, don't by not saying that? Figure out?
Speaker 4: Avoid do not? How did not? How don't you have
Speaker 4: hired one one?
Speaker 5: You really talking offline then, because baby, you can't get
Speaker 5: online because you don't have no job.
Speaker 2: From LinkedIn News and I heard podcasts, this is Let's
Speaker 2: Talk Offline, a show about what it takes to thrive
Speaker 2: in the early years of your career without sacrificing your values,
Speaker 2: sanity or sleep.
Speaker 5: I'm Giana Prudenti and I'm Jamay Jackson Gadson. By a
Speaker 5: show of hands, how many of us have had.
Speaker 1: A bad manager?
Speaker 5: Hand is a raised girl, all of my hands, my toes,
Speaker 5: everything is up.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 5: The truth of the matter is a manager can make
Speaker 5: or break how you show up at work. I mean,
Speaker 5: first of all, not every boss is going to be
Speaker 5: super supportive, or even have great communication skills, or even
Speaker 5: be that girl gender neutral.
Speaker 1: Okay, you have to figure out how to.
Speaker 5: Make your manager work for you, but more importantly, how
Speaker 5: to show up as your best self at work.
Speaker 1: When you're dealing with bad managers.
Speaker 2: It really comes down to just making the best of
Speaker 2: your situation. You know, your manager's supposed to be your
Speaker 2: number one supporter, and when they're not, it can be
Speaker 2: really challenging and feel like such an obstacle. So even
Speaker 2: if they don't got your back, we do, and we're
Speaker 2: going to help you figure out how to build a
Speaker 2: good relationship with your boss, no matter how difficult.
Speaker 1: Period.
Speaker 4: Hey, Jamay, what up? G Okay?
Speaker 2: Today we're talking all about what makes a good and
Speaker 2: a bad boss and how to establish a good working
Speaker 2: relationship with them.
Speaker 4: Spicy, Spicy, I'm excited.
Speaker 2: You Know something I hear a lot of times is
Speaker 2: that people don't quit jobs, they quit bad bosses. And
Speaker 2: I think there's some truth to that, because having a
Speaker 2: bad manager is a reason why a lot of people
Speaker 2: switch roles and of course.
Speaker 4: No one wants that. Like you don't go into a job.
Speaker 2: I don't go into a job expecting that to happen,
Speaker 2: wanting that to happen. But it's going to likely occur
Speaker 2: at some point in your career. So how do you
Speaker 2: then build the best working relationship with that challenging boss.
Speaker 4: We're going to talk about that today, but.
Speaker 2: Before we get into it, to May, I want to
Speaker 2: know what do you look for in a manager?
Speaker 4: What makes a good boss in your eyes?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 5: I love this question because exactly what you said. I
Speaker 5: think people leave bad bosses they can't make it work.
Speaker 5: It's like a toxic relationship. You really want to stick
Speaker 5: it out, but I gotta go. I gotta get out
Speaker 5: of here. Now you're setting cars on fire like Angela Bassett.
Speaker 5: But for me, I get to see this from bost
Speaker 5: perspectives because I've been a manager, and I've also been
Speaker 5: an icy, an individual contributor who reports to a manager.
Speaker 1: For me, I love managers who.
Speaker 5: Are super communicative, who are personable, right like every once
Speaker 5: in a while, the manager who remembers it's your birthday,
Speaker 5: or like it's your anniversary or whatever.
Speaker 1: That's so sweet to me.
Speaker 5: I also do like someone who's really gonna have your back,
Speaker 5: Like you really want to see your manager as like
Speaker 5: someone in your army or your toolkit, like if you're
Speaker 5: gonna go out on the battleground, like you want them
Speaker 5: to be able to codebat with you. So advocacy, I
Speaker 5: think is something really important for me.
Speaker 1: What about you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I a thousand percent agree. I think somebody who's
Speaker 2: going to like fight that battle for you. Of course,
Speaker 2: like you're gonna have to do that for yourself as well,
Speaker 2: but somebody who's willing to you know, advocate for you
Speaker 2: in meetings when it comes to promotions. All of that
Speaker 2: creates space for you, I think is so important. And
Speaker 2: on that piece on like creating space, something my manager
Speaker 2: does really well that I really appreciate is he creates
Speaker 2: space for me to learn and grow. I think sometimes
Speaker 2: it's hard for people to give up, you know, responsibilities
Speaker 2: and let people take ownership. I mean that's something transparently
Speaker 2: I totally struggle with. Like if I was to be
Speaker 2: a manager right now, I would totally be a micronasor.
Speaker 1: At least you know yourself, No.
Speaker 4: I'm self aware, that's one thing about me I know.
Speaker 2: But he really has you know, created a reputation for himself,
Speaker 2: and now he's giving me ownership over things that he
Speaker 2: used to once owned so that I can do the same.
Speaker 2: So I think that's something that's really important, as somebody
Speaker 2: who trusts you to get the work done and is
Speaker 2: going to put you in you know, the spotlight when
Speaker 2: they have the opportunity to, rather than continue to micromanage.
Speaker 2: And also somebody who you know, boosts your visibility, like
Speaker 2: when it comes to advocacy. Another thing that's big for
Speaker 2: me is somebody who offers support and guidance because when
Speaker 2: you start out, you turn to your manager any insight
Speaker 2: on like how to succeed in your role, how to
Speaker 2: succeed in the company. So somebody who's willing to share
Speaker 2: those learnings, and somebody who has more historical knowledge that
Speaker 2: they're willing to share with you, because otherwise you can
Speaker 2: really feel lost. And of course you have your allies
Speaker 2: and your peers and all of that, but your manager
Speaker 2: really is somebody who should be able to, you know,
Speaker 2: clear those roadblocks and help you kind of get to
Speaker 2: where you want to go.
Speaker 4: I think that's really useful.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I also have to remind myself sometimes that We're
Speaker 5: still just people at the end of the day. You know,
Speaker 5: when I first started out, there were a lot of
Speaker 5: managers who kind of really created that hard work life balance.
Speaker 5: I mean, first of all, there was none. Like I've
Speaker 5: said before in other episodes, we was just working. Girl
Speaker 5: were just working. But like I do think nowadays, I
Speaker 5: like more empathetic leaders and managers, people who are going
Speaker 5: to see you. You know, I had to take a
Speaker 5: day off from work recently because I was I woke
Speaker 5: up and I had this terrible migraine, and I obviously
Speaker 5: I could have tried to push through, but like I
Speaker 5: reached out to my manager and I was just like, hey,
Speaker 5: I can't do it. If you let me go to
Speaker 5: work today, it's gonna be a little weird. And she
Speaker 5: was like, please stay home, I drink, go to sleep,
Speaker 5: and I was like, oh, thank you. So, like, you know,
Speaker 5: you just sort of sometimes need managers who just get it.
Speaker 5: And I do think that those are sometimes signs of
Speaker 5: good managers. There are people who just remember, at the
Speaker 5: end of the day, we are all people. We're all
Speaker 5: having a lived experience, and sometimes we just need grace.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that goes back to what you
Speaker 2: said earlier about like leaning. By example, if you know
Speaker 2: my manager takes off because he or she is having
Speaker 2: a migraine, then I'm gonna feel better about doing it myself.
Speaker 2: And you know, my manager now always is like, take
Speaker 2: care of yourself, that comes first. So you know, those
Speaker 2: are the things we look for and a good manager.
Speaker 2: But of course there is the bad and the ugly.
Speaker 2: Have you ever had a bad experience with the manager? Oh?
Speaker 1: Girlame, do we have this coffee? Ain't strong enough?
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Throughout my career, I've had a couple of different bad managers,
Speaker 5: and they've been bad for a number of different reasons.
Speaker 5: You know, sometimes I think what's important for people to remember,
Speaker 5: including myself, is that I don't think anyone is inherently
Speaker 5: good or bad. I think people maybe don't have the
Speaker 5: necessary managerial training.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 5: I'm thankful that the jobs well, at least at LinkedIn.
Speaker 5: When I became a manager, we went through extensive managerial training. Now,
Speaker 5: the first one ever became a manager. I was just
Speaker 5: out on my own and I had to figure it out.
Speaker 5: And honestly, I used the traumas of bad managers past
Speaker 5: to guide me so that I could be a better person.
Speaker 5: For me, I felt that usually what was the pinnacle
Speaker 5: like trademark of a bad manager, where again the people
Speaker 5: who just don't speak my name in rooms. I'll never forget.
Speaker 5: There was this one time with the manager who, for
Speaker 5: whatever reason, she would just never invite me into meetings.
Speaker 5: There would be projects that I would be involved in,
Speaker 5: and then when it came time to presentation, I just
Speaker 5: somehow never got the calendar invite.
Speaker 1: I never found out.
Speaker 5: And then people later on would be like, oh, someone
Speaker 5: so presented this and I was like, wait, that's weird.
Speaker 1: I remember working on that. I will never forget.
Speaker 5: She had a friend who was also a senior leader
Speaker 5: in this company, and then this person started to see
Speaker 5: me more around and then they they were like, oh,
Speaker 5: let's meet up, let's have coffee. Got to know me
Speaker 5: and was like, wow, I actually see something in you.
Speaker 5: You know, I will be an advocate and ally and
Speaker 5: I'll never forget. There came a day when she sat
Speaker 5: down and she was like, I'm just telling you, I
Speaker 5: really think that you need to change managers. Mind you,
Speaker 5: this is her friend she is talking about. I was like, wait,
Speaker 5: what's going on with Tea? She was like, we got
Speaker 5: out of a meeting recently, and I only knew that
Speaker 5: this was your project because you had already shown it
Speaker 5: to me for feedback, but she presented it as.
Speaker 4: Hers not stealing the credit, stealing.
Speaker 5: The credit and then honey, they went out to happy
Speaker 5: hour and my boss told her that she didn't like
Speaker 5: me because she was intimidated. She said, she said, Jamay
Speaker 5: is doing X, Y and Z really well, and when
Speaker 5: I was her age, I wasn't doing that. So it
Speaker 5: was a crazy thing. That was the first time I
Speaker 5: ever actually realized that to some bosses, especially, I think
Speaker 5: if you're not if you don't know yourself, if you're
Speaker 5: not happy with yourself, if you don't go to bed
Speaker 5: at night hugging yourself, that's when you start looking at
Speaker 5: everybody else and being mad at them. Because I was like, baby,
Speaker 5: these are God giving gifts. I don't know what you
Speaker 5: want me to do, Like, I.
Speaker 1: Don't know her fault. It's not my fault. Like and
Speaker 1: it was.
Speaker 5: It was wild, but that experience has always been seared
Speaker 5: in my memory because you might think that because they're
Speaker 5: more senior than you, that they are not intimidated, they're
Speaker 5: not threatened, and baby, there's something you are bringing to
Speaker 5: that table.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 5: If you have a good manager, they will see that
Speaker 5: as talent and gifts that they can use and they
Speaker 5: can help cultivate to help you unlock your potential. But
Speaker 5: unfortunately that's not always the case. I sometimes say that
Speaker 5: the best life lessons of mine have come from my
Speaker 5: bad managers and not the good ones. The good ones
Speaker 5: are great, but it's those bad ones that sort of
Speaker 5: teach you what you do not want to be if
Speaker 5: you ever become a manager, and even if you decide
Speaker 5: you never want to be a manager, what you want
Speaker 5: to look out for in future employers.
Speaker 1: What about you, Giana, I.
Speaker 5: Mean you you always you always talk about your good manager.
Speaker 1: Girls like talking about like a good man. Okay, I
Speaker 1: get it, we all.
Speaker 5: Want one, Okay, But have you ever actually had a
Speaker 5: bad manager?
Speaker 2: I have? Oh so, since I started at LinkedIn, I've
Speaker 2: had three managers. They've all been exceptional. But early, early,
Speaker 2: early in my career, early teen days, when I was
Speaker 2: working at my first ice cream shop.
Speaker 1: I love ice cream shop.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're throwing it way back. No, honestly, that was
Speaker 2: like the most pivotal experience. It really sticks with me.
Speaker 4: I had a really toxic.
Speaker 2: Boss who I don't even know if I've ever ever
Speaker 2: met the guy in person, Like he just like was,
Speaker 2: you know, hanging over all of us and would call
Speaker 2: the shop NonStop during people's shifts and would just ask
Speaker 2: us questions like make sure we were busy all this stuff.
Speaker 2: So he was just like overbearing already. And then it
Speaker 2: came to this one day, I like couldn't make my shift.
Speaker 2: Something was going on, and I called in advance and
Speaker 2: I was like, Hey, I'm not going to be able
Speaker 2: to make my shift in a few days. Need to
Speaker 2: take me off the calendar. And he basically threatened.
Speaker 4: Me over the phone and was like you need to.
Speaker 2: Be there like this whole thing. I got so read
Speaker 2: I was in this store. I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: I don't know why did I call while right there?
Speaker 1: Do you over ice cream?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: No, it's like so serious, serious business. So yeah, I
Speaker 2: decided to quit after that.
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm owt.
Speaker 2: Also, they had rats, so I was like I gotta go, Like,
Speaker 2: this is not the Vibe ice cream shop. Yeah.
Speaker 5: I was about to say, you can't just threaten people.
Speaker 5: That's not really how it really.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I did the opposite of what he said.
Speaker 2: I was like by the way, and I sent a
Speaker 2: whole like, very strongly worded text and it was beautifully
Speaker 2: written and had my mom drag him for phil No,
Speaker 2: I was just like, I don't feel safe in this
Speaker 2: environment anymore, boo.
Speaker 4: A corporate woman since like fifteen I was, I was ready.
Speaker 5: You stood on business I as a child, I get
Speaker 5: I like it and I'm proud of that.
Speaker 2: We really hope you have an amazing manager and there
Speaker 2: will never be a problem. But in case you have
Speaker 2: a not so great boss, stick around because we're going
Speaker 2: to talk about how to deal with the difficult manager
Speaker 2: after the break.
Speaker 1: All right, y'all, so we are back.
Speaker 5: We have been talking about good managers, bad managers, left managers,
Speaker 5: right managers, all the managers.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of manager you'll talk and I am
Speaker 1: digging it.
Speaker 2: You deal with bad managers at some point in your career.
Speaker 2: And I want to bring in a question from one
Speaker 2: of our listeners. Next this is Dear Work Bestie, where
Speaker 2: we answer your questions. This week's question comes from Stina
Speaker 2: in California.
Speaker 6: How do I deal with favoritism in the workplace? I
Speaker 6: had a manager who I felt played favorites in my opinion,
Speaker 6: I think they promoted someone who wasn't necessarily ready over
Speaker 6: another colleague who's been there longer and produced the same
Speaker 6: call of work. How do I balance professionalism with my
Speaker 6: boss and speaking out against toxicity within the team at
Speaker 6: the same time.
Speaker 4: Dang, not the favoritism. That's tough.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, she mentioned somebody on her team got
Speaker 2: promoted over somebody else. I think with that, like, the
Speaker 2: reality is you don't really know what happens behind closed
Speaker 2: doors when it comes to promotions. But I'm sure and
Speaker 2: I can imagine I would feel the same Instina's position,
Speaker 2: like is this going to happen to me at some point? Yeah,
Speaker 2: it seems like this also happened in the past, but
Speaker 2: in the future, like you will maybe deal with favoritism again.
Speaker 2: So I think it's understanding across the team, like are
Speaker 2: you all being measured on the same metrics? Like if
Speaker 2: your one colleague who just got promoted is doing something differently,
Speaker 2: maybe they have weekly one on ones with their managers
Speaker 2: where they're really great about, you know, bragging about their wins.
Speaker 2: That's something that a lot of us struggle with. So
Speaker 2: maybe that colleague is serving up their wins in a
Speaker 2: different way. Or they have different metrics that they're you know,
Speaker 2: being measured against. Then I think that shows you what
Speaker 2: you could be doing. Maybe I need to be boosting
Speaker 2: my own visibility by telling my manager what's going on,
Speaker 2: keeping them.
Speaker 4: In the loop.
Speaker 2: And then also maybe there's an argument for saying across
Speaker 2: the team, I think we all need to be measured
Speaker 2: the same because we all have similar roles. So how
Speaker 2: can we kind of just like do a team wide
Speaker 2: assessment of you know, different metrics for us. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: of course, like if it's just your manager is best
Speaker 2: friends with that colleague who got promoted over other people,
Speaker 2: and there's like blatant favoritism in that way, you know,
Speaker 2: find an ally on your team, don't gossip with them.
Speaker 2: But you know, maybe other people are experiencing this as
Speaker 2: well and observing it. And then of course if you
Speaker 2: can't resolve on your own, you might have to just
Speaker 2: speak to someone higher up.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I like all those tips.
Speaker 5: Now, Stina, I'm gonna lean in a little bit more,
Speaker 5: and I'm gonna give you a little bit of tough love.
Speaker 5: Feelings are not facts you said. In my opinion, I
Speaker 5: think you probably saw something outside looking, but to me,
Speaker 5: in Gianna's point, you don't know the entire situation, So
Speaker 5: I would always just say go into any situation remembering
Speaker 5: that your feelings are not facts, right, and so sometimes
Speaker 5: we have to take a step back and make sure
Speaker 5: that we sort between the two. You don't necessarily know
Speaker 5: if the person who got promoted was not ready, because
Speaker 5: your manager could put you up for promotion, but if
Speaker 5: other people in the room can't speak to you or
Speaker 5: attest to you, it's going to be really, really, really
Speaker 5: difficult for them to push through. So clearly enough people
Speaker 5: believe that this person needed to be promoted at the
Speaker 5: next level now. But that being said, I do want
Speaker 5: to also say that I empathize with this because calling
Speaker 5: out toxicity in the workforce can feel super scary, and
Speaker 5: especially when you feel like that is going to cross
Speaker 5: a line of professionalism with your boss. So I have
Speaker 5: a couple of thoughts about this, particularly speaking as a
Speaker 5: former manager, but more importantly as a black and Latino
Speaker 5: woman who has had to navigate this. First of all,
Speaker 5: document everything. People say this all the time. My mom
Speaker 5: hadn't told me since I was three years old. Document everything.
Speaker 5: You need to write down who you were talking to,
Speaker 5: what time, what people were wearing, whatever, because you never
Speaker 5: know when you're gonna have.
Speaker 1: To really pull in that.
Speaker 5: Honey. Look, I have pulled out a booklip before and
Speaker 5: I'd be like, I remember because you were drinking this.
Speaker 5: And this is because because people will try to play you. Okay,
Speaker 5: I'll say this every podcast episode. People will try to
Speaker 5: play you, and I'm gonna play the game.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 5: But you need to document everything. Yes, if this is
Speaker 5: your actual experience, you can start documenting. So for either
Speaker 5: of these people, if you start to see that there
Speaker 5: is favoritism happening, start documenting little things that you start
Speaker 5: seeing your manager do document the conversations you are having.
Speaker 1: Also, more than.
Speaker 5: Likely your job has job ladders, which are sort of
Speaker 5: like what we call, you know, job ladders, career profiles.
Speaker 5: They're called different things in different companies, but essentially it
Speaker 5: is a written out document, usually approved by senior leaders
Speaker 5: on your team and HR that will explicitly call out
Speaker 5: the roles and responsibility at each level. So, Stina, this
Speaker 5: is a great opportunity for you to also ask your
Speaker 5: manager do you want all have this? And if you do,
Speaker 5: let's all review it together as a team. And if
Speaker 5: you don't that's an opportunity to maybe have a conversation
Speaker 5: with HR to say, like, I really want to make
Speaker 5: sure that we are equitably being you know, reinforced across
Speaker 5: the board with all of our roles and responsibilities. Can
Speaker 5: we explore building a job ladder so that we can
Speaker 5: all see very straight up, in black and white, what
Speaker 5: is expected of us and how to get to the
Speaker 5: next level.
Speaker 2: That's such a good point because you might not always
Speaker 2: know what it takes to get to that next level,
Speaker 2: So make sure you one have the understanding, and then
Speaker 2: like also benchmark yourself against your colleague. You know, what
Speaker 2: are they doing that I should be doing? And how
Speaker 2: can then you implement that into your own you know, workflow,
Speaker 2: and especially in your relationship with your manager.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I think in.
Speaker 2: Steena's case or anybody's case, when you're dealing with a
Speaker 2: bad manager, you first have to assess the situation. You
Speaker 2: have to identify how does that person work, and then
Speaker 2: how do I work and kind of try to bridge
Speaker 2: that gap. And this is applicable for everybody. So whether
Speaker 2: they play favorites like in Stinas situation, or maybe for example,
Speaker 2: they're a micromanager. So let's say they are a micromanager.
Speaker 2: You know, they frequently ask for updates and they closely
Speaker 2: monitor your work.
Speaker 4: You feel like you always have eyes on you. Yeah,
Speaker 4: you know that's tough.
Speaker 1: I've had those. Yeah, not fun.
Speaker 4: Not fun.
Speaker 2: So in this case, I feel like a lot of
Speaker 2: times it can be super frustrating to work under somebody
Speaker 2: who you feel like, Okay, they don't trust me to
Speaker 2: clearly get the work done because they're constantly asking for
Speaker 2: updates and I feel like they're.
Speaker 4: Holding me back.
Speaker 2: Right, I think what you could do is have a
Speaker 2: conversation with your manager and be like, hey, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm going to take the first pass of this assignment.
Speaker 2: Can I share it with you by end of week
Speaker 2: for feedback? Like literally create that deadline for yourself so
Speaker 2: that they know you don't want any feedback until Friday, right,
Speaker 2: and maybe they'll still check in, you know. I think
Speaker 2: it takes time for people to relearn their habits, Like
Speaker 2: I said transparently, Like I think I'm a micromanager right now.
Speaker 2: I have trouble because I'm very particular about the way
Speaker 2: I do things, and I, you know, want great quality
Speaker 2: with my work, so it's hard to give that up, right,
Speaker 2: So I imagine I would be checking in with people
Speaker 2: a lot, and that's a habit you need to kind
Speaker 2: of break, So give them some grace in all of that. Also,
Speaker 2: side note, if you're not having one on one meetings
Speaker 2: or bi weekly meetings with your manager, you should totally
Speaker 2: set those up. That's something like I always ask people
Speaker 2: if my friends are saying, you know, I'm struggling with
Speaker 2: my manager right now, I like, do you check in
Speaker 2: with them at all? Like, what's the kind of culture
Speaker 2: of meetings like there? Because if you're not having a
Speaker 2: direct line of contact with your manager and your meeting regularly,
Speaker 2: it's an opportunity for you to set that up so
Speaker 2: that you can share updates in you know, those meetings,
Speaker 2: and you can come prepare, write that out, share with
Speaker 2: them afterwards, and be like, here's the summary of what
Speaker 2: I said. And it's also an opportunity for you guys
Speaker 2: to build trust, right, That's ultimately what it comes down
Speaker 2: to when it's a micromanager.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And what I particularly appreciate about all of the
Speaker 5: tips that you just shared is that you are playing
Speaker 5: an active role in your career. Like one thing I
Speaker 5: everyone takes away when they listen to this podcast is
Speaker 5: that you are in the driver's seat of your career
Speaker 5: and we can give you all the tips of how
Speaker 5: to manage it, how to drive I mean, child, don't
Speaker 5: take tips for me because I don't know how to drive.
Speaker 5: But either way, we want to give you guys the tools.
Speaker 5: But at the end of the day, you have to
Speaker 5: remember that this is your career and you have to
Speaker 5: take the helm. I say that because one of the
Speaker 5: mistakes that I have found sometimes being a manager is
Speaker 5: that my direct reports are expecting me to do all
Speaker 5: the work.
Speaker 4: For you, right, and you got to manage up.
Speaker 5: Yeah, manage up. Come to your manager having already done
Speaker 5: some of the work. But this also goes back again
Speaker 5: to that open communication and having that dialogue with people
Speaker 5: you know, so you even asking them like how do
Speaker 5: you manage right? Like the same way we have personality,
Speaker 5: you know, Meyer Briggs or whatever, like all them things
Speaker 5: like you have those.
Speaker 1: Things for managers too, and people.
Speaker 5: You should come into the workforce understanding how you like
Speaker 5: to work, how you like to communicate, how you like
Speaker 5: to get your work done, and you should also be
Speaker 5: able to answer the same things about your manager. So
Speaker 5: I really think that taking the onus on yourself to
Speaker 5: help manage that relationship is going to be great.
Speaker 2: I want to ask you because you've been a manager,
Speaker 2: something I am definitely fearful of, and I'm sure many
Speaker 2: people my age are is saying, I mean, you're not
Speaker 2: gonna go to your manager and be like, hey, you're
Speaker 2: micro a manager and you got a chill or you know,
Speaker 2: you're not giving me feedback and I'm struggling out.
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's a little vocal'll like this is
Speaker 3: not the vibe.
Speaker 2: But I think having that conversation and being like I'm
Speaker 2: struggling because of you, Like, how do you go about
Speaker 2: that in a professional way? You know, like what's like
Speaker 2: the professional way of saying it's you.
Speaker 1: It's actually you? I would say, don't by not saying
Speaker 1: that avoid do not?
Speaker 4: How did not?
Speaker 5: Do you really want talking offline then? Because baby, you
Speaker 5: can't get online because you don't have no job. No,
Speaker 5: But I really do think that there is a way
Speaker 5: for you to come about it and just being like, hey,
Speaker 5: I think that you know, we could help bridge this
Speaker 5: communication gap a little bit better and figuring out like
Speaker 5: come with them with a specific example and figuring out, Okay,
Speaker 5: so here's how it didn't work, but like, here's my
Speaker 5: proposed solution and then asking them. One of the key
Speaker 5: tools in my toolkit job is coming up with a
Speaker 5: good idea and then giving it to somebody else and
Speaker 5: letting them think it was their own.
Speaker 1: It will save you so much.
Speaker 5: It's the best thing ever, because then all of a sudden,
Speaker 5: you know they're going throughut their day and they'd be like, oh, actually, I.
Speaker 1: Think we should. That is such a great idea. That
Speaker 1: is amazing, girl.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 5: What you have taught me so much in this moment,
Speaker 5: knowing darn well that you were the one that planted
Speaker 5: that scene, but you don't.
Speaker 1: But run with it. Run with it, because.
Speaker 5: No, you never want to just say like you know
Speaker 5: it's you. But what you can do is just being like,
Speaker 5: you know what I think think that since you know
Speaker 5: you are so swamped, you are so busy right now,
Speaker 5: I can help take something off of your plate. How
Speaker 5: about I own the workstream of this project from A
Speaker 5: to Z whatever else. This is really where managing upsteps
Speaker 5: in right and especially if like you are a little
Speaker 5: bit more of that hands on like micro manager of
Speaker 5: your own life thing, this is gonna be perfect for you,
Speaker 5: because essentially what you're telling your manager is you can
Speaker 5: take a step back and I will own this. Yeah,
Speaker 5: and if you are not that person, then you also
Speaker 5: have the opportunity here to own this in a way
Speaker 5: that your manager is not like hounding you, but also
Speaker 5: you get to kind of determine the outcome a little
Speaker 5: bit better.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I also want to quickly add like this can feel
Speaker 2: super isolating, and we're talking about having a conversation directly
Speaker 2: with your manager, but I'm sure your other teammates are
Speaker 2: experiencing this as well. Like, I know you're all excite
Speaker 2: eying each other in the team's meetings. You're like, hmm,
Speaker 2: like anyone else picking up on this? Like, there are
Speaker 2: gonna be other people on your team who are you know,
Speaker 2: experiencing the same thing as you. You don't obviously want
Speaker 2: to gossip with them, but I think you can turn
Speaker 2: to somebody who you trust and be like, hey, are
Speaker 2: you also struggling with X y Z. Maybe you guys
Speaker 2: are on the same project together, so it feels super
Speaker 2: you know, close to home, girl, So find an ally
Speaker 2: on your team and maybe you guys can come up
Speaker 2: together with an action plan, especially if you're younger and
Speaker 2: maybe you're the youngest on the team. And I'm sure
Speaker 2: a lot of people listening experience that find somebody who
Speaker 2: is a bit more senior and be like, hey, you know,
Speaker 2: is this also your experience and how are you dealing
Speaker 2: with it? Is there something I can be doing better?
Speaker 2: And like, together, should we come up with a plan
Speaker 2: to kind of, you know, fix what's going on here?
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: What I really appreciate about you saying that is that
Speaker 5: that has been an experience I have lived where I
Speaker 5: was dealing with a manager once and I really started
Speaker 5: to feel that he was racist, and I started doing
Speaker 5: everything that I suggested. I started documenting everything, I started
Speaker 5: making notes about certain things that he would say to me.
Speaker 5: And it wasn't until one day when our whole team
Speaker 5: got together that I started asking other people in the room.
Speaker 5: I've said, have you ever had this experience with this person.
Speaker 5: One thing that came out of that was that all
Speaker 5: of the women on the team had a very different
Speaker 5: experience with this manager than the men, and then the
Speaker 5: people of color on the team had a very different
Speaker 5: experience too. So I just want to say that because
Speaker 5: especially when you start adding in other layers of the
Speaker 5: isms right that come into play sometimes in the workforce,
Speaker 5: it's really terrifying and you feel gas.
Speaker 4: Lit and you are like, is it just me?
Speaker 5: But I do want to say that you building a report,
Speaker 5: even with your teammates, is going to allow you to
Speaker 5: start gut checking. Remember if feelings are not facts, but
Speaker 5: if you can start getting facts documented and all of
Speaker 5: you can collectively come together to say like, this is
Speaker 5: how this person is doing this versus that, that helps
Speaker 5: build a stronger case for you, whether that's going to
Speaker 5: HR or my last tip, which is walking away. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I don't ever want anyone to feel, oh my god,
Speaker 5: why I feel emotional saying this, Oh my god, it's
Speaker 5: just but it's true because sometimes by the time you
Speaker 5: are ready to walk away, you feel like you have
Speaker 5: exhausted every option you have, maybe even to some degree
Speaker 5: lost yourself in the process, and it's not good. I
Speaker 5: want to say that any job that makes you feel
Speaker 5: like you can't be you is not a job that
Speaker 5: deserves you. And you have to determine when you walk away,
Speaker 5: and you have to determine that it is okay to
Speaker 5: walk away, because let me tell you this, anything that
Speaker 5: I have ever walked away from I have never regretted
Speaker 5: maybe in that moment right because you always think there's
Speaker 5: nothing bigger, better, you know, more lovelier, more gold, and
Speaker 5: that's going to come along, and I guarantee you something
Speaker 5: else well. At the end of the day. If you
Speaker 5: feel like you have done all that you can to
Speaker 5: make it work and you are still not seeing any improvement,
Speaker 5: you're still not seeing your manager try, you're not feeling
Speaker 5: like you're getting supportive HR, it is absolutely okay to
Speaker 5: walk away. What I would say is create your exit
Speaker 5: strategy plan, but don't feel like you have failed. If
Speaker 5: you have to walk away, you actually are very strong
Speaker 5: if you are preserving your mental health.
Speaker 1: Mental health above all things. Yeah, mental health and mimosas.
Speaker 2: Sometimes Digress really is Greeners elsewhere with mimosas.
Speaker 5: After the break? How do you end your emails? Are
Speaker 5: you using sincerely maybe warm regards? Would you ever consider
Speaker 5: using sleigh and stay hydrated? That's next, Love Gianna and Jamay.
Speaker 2: I really love that convote to May because it's, you know,
Speaker 2: really intimidating when you're early in your career and feel
Speaker 2: like somebody who's supposed to be there to support and
Speaker 2: encourage you is a roadblock. So it's great to learn
Speaker 2: from your experience both as an ICEE and as a manager.
Speaker 2: And I think something I'm taking away from this conversation
Speaker 2: is it's really just about making like the best of
Speaker 2: the situation and seeking support from other people around you
Speaker 2: and filling in the gaps. Like your manager at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, can't be your end all be all.
Speaker 2: It's really great if they are your biggest cheerleader, but
Speaker 2: if you're not getting the mentorship or the guidance from them,
Speaker 2: you can see that support elsewhere through an official mentor
Speaker 2: So it's really about you know, doing your best to
Speaker 2: communicate and then filling in the gaps when you need to.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 5: I think for me, you know, one thing that I
Speaker 5: really want to hone in is just like again documenting
Speaker 5: things and having like that group of people in your
Speaker 5: life who you trust, whether that is other co workers
Speaker 5: or family and friends right who you know are not
Speaker 5: going to just be yes men, who are going to
Speaker 5: actually listen and give you real feedback because sometimes you
Speaker 5: are the problem. Also, I would say extending grace to people.
Speaker 5: You know, there was a time in my life as
Speaker 5: a manager where so many things were happening in my
Speaker 5: personal life.
Speaker 1: I probably didn't show up the best for my team.
Speaker 5: I wouldn't necessarily say I was a bad manager or
Speaker 5: a toxic manager, but that is a moment where her
Speaker 5: direct reports can really step up and manage up because
Speaker 5: you really don't know what's going on in other people's lives.
Speaker 5: And then lastly, that you are actually really strong if
Speaker 5: you decide to walk away, and at the end of
Speaker 5: the day, when you look back on this, you want
Speaker 5: a career that you are proud of. And I can
Speaker 5: guarantee you as someone who walked away religiously in the
Speaker 5: beginning part of her career from places that did not
Speaker 5: serve her or if she felt she had outgrown very quickly,
Speaker 5: I look back on those now and everything was working
Speaker 5: for my good. So do not think that any of
Speaker 5: this is going to stifle you from you know, the
Speaker 5: rest of your life.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so this was.
Speaker 5: Fun, but girl, I want to do some talk about
Speaker 5: some things that are either gonna make it cool or cringe.
Speaker 5: You guys, this is one of my favorite parts of
Speaker 5: the show. It is called cool or cringe, where we
Speaker 5: get to talk about some of those really questionable aspects
Speaker 5: of the workplace and decide whether they are cool or cringe.
Speaker 1: Gianna, what are we talking about this week?
Speaker 2: I'm so excited for this one. It's non traditional email
Speaker 2: sign offs, and I've seen a lot, especially on TikTok,
Speaker 2: with some gen Z people signing emails in really fun,
Speaker 2: creative ways, like crying in the cubicles.
Speaker 1: So wait, that was a sign off?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't know how serious these are,
Speaker 2: but I see them and they always make me laugh.
Speaker 2: So we're going to get into that. But before we do, Jamay,
Speaker 2: how do you sign your emails?
Speaker 1: That's a really good question. I actually don't even know.
Speaker 5: I think I just I think I go simple with it.
Speaker 5: I'm just be like, you know, all the best. I
Speaker 5: think I'm an all the best person because I am
Speaker 5: wishing you.
Speaker 1: The best most most of the time.
Speaker 5: If I do not wish you the best, I will
Speaker 5: remove that part and it'll just be jamay anything. After that,
Speaker 5: I started getting like a little whoa, Okay, this is
Speaker 5: interesting if I were to change it, though. I don't
Speaker 5: know if anyone listening saw the BET Awards when Usher
Speaker 5: got his like Lifetime Achievement award, but his whole audio
Speaker 5: cut off. But then there was a point where he
Speaker 5: caught back on. He was like, I'm trying to meet
Speaker 5: up his ex wife, so I think that would be
Speaker 5: my email sign on.
Speaker 1: Off, I'm trying LinkedIn.
Speaker 4: I'm trying Jamaica. That's it.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well we're going to get into some some different
Speaker 2: spicy email sign offs. Our producer has prepared some real
Speaker 2: life email signatures people have used, and we are going
Speaker 2: to read them.
Speaker 4: Now. I'm nervous. We haven't seen we haven't seen them.
Speaker 4: It's okay, I'm gonna go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you go first.
Speaker 4: G it's giving sorty bedat. Oh okay, I'm nervous, okay,
Speaker 4: because you're saying here's line. Oh god, I.
Speaker 1: Don't even want to read that. I'm scared to go ahead.
Speaker 2: Okay, looking forward to next week's presentation. In the meantime,
Speaker 2: have a great weekend. Stay litty, Emily, stay litty.
Speaker 1: Oh Emily, Emily, no woman that you are. Why would
Speaker 1: you you know, stay litty?
Speaker 2: I think if you're if I'm messaging you and that's
Speaker 2: our vibe, like we're friends. Maybe, I mean I wouldn't
Speaker 2: wouldn't say that, but like something more casual, casual like
Speaker 2: this maybe, but yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4: If stelady has a place in the workplace, but.
Speaker 1: Also like where do you work? Right, like because like
Speaker 1: maybe she's just.
Speaker 5: Trying to have a let weekend, clearly, clearly, well, but
Speaker 5: this is like a date. Wait, because she was saying
Speaker 5: have a great weekend, right, Yeah, she wants you to
Speaker 5: be lit a weekend too. Yeah, be careful about that, right.
Speaker 1: Girl. Take a deep breath.
Speaker 5: Okay, if you could upload the attached document, that would
Speaker 5: be great. Thanks, live laugh, leave me alone, Connie?
Speaker 4: I love that. Who is it?
Speaker 1: Live laugh? Leave me alone? Connie?
Speaker 4: Connie?
Speaker 5: But Connie, if they left you alone, how would you
Speaker 5: know that they uploaded the attached document?
Speaker 4: Honestly? I love it.
Speaker 5: Honestly though, I kind of do because it's kind of
Speaker 5: like I want you to live.
Speaker 1: I want you to laugh. Now leave me alone.
Speaker 4: We're done yet, threads ended.
Speaker 1: You know what this this is giving. It's giving work
Speaker 1: life boundaries.
Speaker 4: It's giving boundaries.
Speaker 5: It's giving boundaries, it's giving I'm here to do my job,
Speaker 5: I'm clocking in, I'm clocking out.
Speaker 1: I'm about to go hang out with my girl. Emily.
Speaker 5: Were about to be in the city. Yeah, okay, Connie, Connie, Yes, Emily,
Speaker 5: I think we're still betcher. Okay, what's yours say? Okay,
Speaker 5: here's my feedback on the report. Let me know if
Speaker 5: you have any questions.
Speaker 4: Yea, Brian, Brian.
Speaker 2: No, No, Also, like, is that's still a thing?
Speaker 1: It is in wrestling, in wrestling?
Speaker 2: Okay, Well I don't wrestle, and you shouldn't be wrestling
Speaker 2: at work, even with your bad boss.
Speaker 1: That's an HR violation. Why why Brian?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fun, it's thirty, but.
Speaker 1: No, it's I don't know.
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, okay, last, but certainly not least passing along
Speaker 5: the assets for tomorrow's meeting. Please don't fire me, as
Speaker 5: in p l Z, don't fire.
Speaker 1: Me, Darren.
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, Darren, I think I might have to
Speaker 5: fire you just because you because you tell me you're
Speaker 5: about to pass along something and then say please don't
Speaker 5: fire me. Now you've terrified me, because what the heck
Speaker 5: are you? What are sending for tomorrow's meeting? Right, I'm terrified.
Speaker 4: Now I don't like that. I'm scared.
Speaker 5: I think Darren was actually saying please fire me, yeah,
Speaker 5: because yeah.
Speaker 4: That was a little bit of a cry for help.
Speaker 4: But all this is to say, what's the takeaway here?
Speaker 2: You know, you got to keep it professional. Obviously, every
Speaker 2: workplace has a different vibe. So if this flies on
Speaker 2: your team, like, go off, but probably keep it professional.
Speaker 2: I will say, I'm really trying to find my signature
Speaker 2: email sign off.
Speaker 4: I don't have it yet.
Speaker 2: So if you guys have really good ones that are fun, lighthearted,
Speaker 2: not sincerely, I don't want any sincerely. It's because clearly
Speaker 2: you're not being sincere.
Speaker 1: No, and the.
Speaker 2: Cheers one like, it's not me. I'm not cheers. So
Speaker 2: if you guys have good at rex.
Speaker 4: Let me know.
Speaker 5: I want to steal them. So, Gianna, what's the verdict?
Speaker 5: You think it's cringe or it's cool.
Speaker 2: I think all of these are a bit cringe, except
Speaker 2: for Connie is honestly leave me alone, like I'm loving that.
Speaker 2: But no, I think they're all a little cringe.
Speaker 1: I agree.
Speaker 5: I think Connie is the least cringe. I think Connie
Speaker 5: might be a little cool, but even still, I don't
Speaker 5: know if I necessarily would tell my manager or leave
Speaker 5: me alone.
Speaker 4: Yeah, cringe, but iconic.
Speaker 5: I guess the verdict is clearly out that we both
Speaker 5: think this is cringe.
Speaker 1: But I really want to know what you think.
Speaker 2: Yes, thanks, for listening and let us know in the newsletter,
Speaker 2: which you should be following by now if you're not already.
Speaker 2: You could find the link to the newsletter in the
Speaker 2: show description and also in my LinkedIn bio.
Speaker 4: It's called Let's Talk Offline.
Speaker 5: Ooh, iconic Stina girl. Thank you so much for sending
Speaker 5: in your question. Y'all, y'all can be just like Stina. Okay,
Speaker 5: I love her question because it wasn't even about her,
Speaker 5: it was about how she can be a better ally
Speaker 5: in the workforce.
Speaker 1: We all should be allies. If you guys have.
Speaker 5: Any burning listener questions, you guys can and ask me
Speaker 5: and Gianna. Information on how to do that is in
Speaker 5: the show description. I'm gonna tell you all this every time.
Speaker 5: Look in the show description. It is a gold mine
Speaker 5: of gold gems for goldness and goodness. Look in the
Speaker 5: show description.
Speaker 2: Also, make sure you guys rate and review the show
Speaker 2: and follow us so you can stick around and join our.
Speaker 4: Little thing we got going here.
Speaker 2: I like it, And before you guys go, remember we've
Speaker 2: always got your back. So if something comes up, let's
Speaker 2: talk offline.
Speaker 4: I'm Giana Prudenti.
Speaker 1: And I'm Jamie Jackson. Gadsden and I Boy Voice, Just Crack.
Speaker 5: Going through Prebty Again and I'm Jamaie Jackson Gadsden, Stay Thriving, Let's.
Speaker 2: Talk Offline is a production of LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 2: The show is produced by Western Sound. Our producer is
Speaker 2: Sabrina Fang. The show is edited by Savannah Wright. Our
Speaker 2: associate producer is Sarah Dilley. Alex mckinness is our engineer,
Speaker 2: and Ben Adair is the executive producer.
Speaker 5: Executive producers at iHeart Podcasts are Katrina Norvel and Nikki Etour.
Speaker 5: We got support from LinkedIn's Jesse Hemple, Sarah Storm, and
Speaker 5: Ayana Angel. Maya Pope Chappelle is Director of Content, Dave
Speaker 5: Pond is head of News Production, Courtney Coop is Head
Speaker 5: of Original Programming, and Dan Roth is the editor in
Speaker 5: chief of LinkedIn