Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. Is this your card?
Speaker 2: My name is Matt.
Speaker 3: Now, yeah, my name is Noah, and this is not
Speaker 3: my card.
Speaker 4: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our
Speaker 4: super producer, Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagott. Most importantly, you
Speaker 4: are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff
Speaker 4: they don't want you to know. And tonight, fellow conspiracy realists,
Speaker 4: we are exploring something we, oddly enough, have not covered
Speaker 4: for quite some time. Over almost two decades. We never
Speaker 4: got to tarot cards.
Speaker 3: How is that even possible?
Speaker 4: And we read the cards. We have very good news.
Speaker 4: You could see a picture of the shore. Here. We
Speaker 4: are hanging out on a stuff themed Virgin Voyages cruise
Speaker 4: this October. Guys couldn't be more excited.
Speaker 3: And by stuff we mean all of the shows with
Speaker 3: stuff in the name, not all, but some of our
Speaker 3: favorites and some of our best friends, Josh and Chuck.
Speaker 3: Stuff you shouldn't know, right, Stuff they don't.
Speaker 2: Want you to know will be joined by the dal
Speaker 2: Moodies themselves, Josh and Chuck.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, yes, I'm so excited. Also, stuff, Mom
Speaker 3: never told you what are stuffs?
Speaker 2: The best stuff is going to be you on the
Speaker 2: cruise with us because we get to hang out, like
Speaker 2: actually just hang out.
Speaker 3: On the show.
Speaker 2: Sometimes we even go off the ship to do things
Speaker 2: in Bermuda. What yes with you? Shall we excure? We
Speaker 2: can't wait for you to join us. From October second
Speaker 2: to the seventh, we're heading out of New York. We're
Speaker 2: going through the Caribbean. We could not be more excited.
Speaker 2: Let's see, I got another water tarot card here. Have
Speaker 2: you guys ever used tarot cards?
Speaker 3: Well, it's funny you should ask ben. I very recently
Speaker 3: had my first ever professional tarot reading. I was in
Speaker 3: New York City hanging out with a friend and we
Speaker 3: decided to try one out. And so we found a
Speaker 3: place that was in the walking distance and it wasn't cheap,
Speaker 3: and it was quite bad and my house well it
Speaker 3: just it was if it was cold reading, it wasn't
Speaker 3: very adept cold reading. The person did say that I
Speaker 3: maybe give too much information, like just as a person,
Speaker 3: that I maybe should play things a little closer to
Speaker 3: the vest. And I don't know, but it's kind of
Speaker 3: funny to say that, considering that you're asking me questions
Speaker 3: and I'm answering the questions for you of my ability.
Speaker 4: So I felt a little like yeah at a little bit,
Speaker 4: and you said they were very New York as well.
Speaker 3: New York is as the cheesecake. My friend, I literally said,
Speaker 3: you're referring to me and my and my my companion
Speaker 3: as use guys, and ironically and just saying use use
Speaker 3: refer it was I felt like I was getting cold
Speaker 3: red by Tony Soprano.
Speaker 4: Watched that episode. I would watch.
Speaker 3: Soprano Fortune Teller. That's a new spin off, all right,
Speaker 3: James Gandolfini, though can't really make that happen. Maybe Chrissy
Speaker 3: could do it.
Speaker 2: No, just as uh as more information and please please
Speaker 2: don't give too much. Oh what were you wearing when
Speaker 2: you when you went to get your tarot red?
Speaker 3: I was wearing a hoodie, a zip up hoodie and
Speaker 3: a nice button down shirt that was not revealed because
Speaker 3: of said hoodie.
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, so you were wearing clothing.
Speaker 3: Anything about below the belt? My friends, and I am
Speaker 3: I'm not going to do impress me on that. No, No,
Speaker 3: I was wearing a pant of some sort ofaloon.
Speaker 2: No, I'm only asking you because, as we're going to
Speaker 2: get into this conversation, a lot of what occurs within
Speaker 2: a reading, within you know, an encounter with someone that's
Speaker 2: going to be providing that kind of service with you,
Speaker 2: occurs before any words are spoken. Oh yeah, yes, when
Speaker 2: the eyes are on you when you walk through a door.
Speaker 3: Well, funny enough, this clearly was a family business because
Speaker 3: we looked in the window and the door was locked,
Speaker 3: and we kind of had to get people's attention. At
Speaker 3: first we thought they were maybe doing a private event
Speaker 3: in the back room, but we realized it was just
Speaker 3: the fam kicking it waiting for a customer to approach.
Speaker 4: That's how you know what's legit.
Speaker 3: Oh, that's what that was my thinking. Initially. Ben Yeh
Speaker 3: sad to report did not find it to be particularly compelling.
Speaker 4: Well, maybe it's a legitimate rift. Compare it to that's
Speaker 4: like a jumbo shrimp, right, yeah, there, it is quite paradoxical.
Speaker 4: Let's compare it to how you know a restaurant is
Speaker 4: solid if the people who work at the restaurant have
Speaker 4: their kids behind the counter doing homework. That's you know, like.
Speaker 3: That's a low key guy Chinese establishment. Perhaps it would
Speaker 3: be my experience with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So we have talked about Tarot cards off air
Speaker 4: because we are actually friends folks outside of Netflix or
Speaker 4: outside of your favorite podcast platform, and this has always
Speaker 4: baffled us. There's a very important question that we want
Speaker 4: to address tonight, which is this, what if tarot cards
Speaker 4: actually work? What do we mean by work and what
Speaker 4: would it mean for the world if tarot cards do
Speaker 4: what they say on the tin. We'll be right back
Speaker 4: after a word from our sponsors. Here are the facts.
Speaker 4: Word of the day cartomancy. Cartomancy is the fancy word
Speaker 4: for telling the future, or fortune telling, or divination through
Speaker 4: the use of any kind of paper card.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it makes me think of the word another portmanteau.
Speaker 3: I guess then maybe a card. No, I think kind
Speaker 3: of is car cardistry? Referring to these folks on the
Speaker 3: internet who like do all these crazy magic shuffle tricks
Speaker 3: undred percent, one could potentially combine cardistry and cartomancy into
Speaker 3: cartoman mantistry.
Speaker 4: I love it, admit. What Wait?
Speaker 3: What is that?
Speaker 4: Wait? What was that we got to wait till the end,
Speaker 4: all right, I got it looks.
Speaker 2: Right, Oh dude, it looks like some kind of Nickelodeon
Speaker 2: tarot card. It looks awesome.
Speaker 4: So we know that for a long time, ever since
Speaker 4: the invention of cards, or really the invention of any technology,
Speaker 4: people have attempted to predict the future or learn more
Speaker 4: about the world around them through that thing like pyromancy,
Speaker 4: predict in the future through fire right, gaining knowledge in
Speaker 4: a prometheum way. We also know there are these things
Speaker 4: called tarot games. So the very first, like the ancestor
Speaker 4: of the modern tarot deck that you're going to run
Speaker 4: into now if you're in the West, are going to
Speaker 4: come to you via Italy from about the fourteen thirties CE.
Speaker 4: This is when taro was first known as twunthy. Someone
Speaker 4: helped me out, who's better? Which of us is the
Speaker 4: best at Italian triphi triomphy? Yeah, there it is. That's good.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So this this thing is
Speaker 4: so old that researchers from Yale made their bones on it. Sorry,
Speaker 4: Sopranos is in my head now.
Speaker 2: Throwing bones if it might which as well.
Speaker 4: A well, gone give it, guys, well done, and I
Speaker 4: think there should be a tarot based Italian brain rot
Speaker 4: Trioni Tortllini perhaps.
Speaker 2: Oh no, please don't, I did it.
Speaker 3: It's too late, man happening. I will did it to existence.
Speaker 4: So we know that researchers from Yale did some very
Speaker 4: clever watermark forensics to definitively date probably the world's oldest
Speaker 4: tarot deck or the world's oldest modern ancestor that goes
Speaker 4: back to fourteen thirty seven or fourteen forty two, somewhere
Speaker 4: between there, and at that time, folks. As weird as
Speaker 4: it will sound, the earliest tarot cards and the earliest
Speaker 4: decks were basically a game for idle aristocrats and super
Speaker 4: wealthy people.
Speaker 3: I've always wondered about that because they do kind of
Speaker 3: have suits and associated numbers in a similar way to
Speaker 3: you know, a fifty two card playing card deck.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you said, forensic water marking, Ben, I've only heard
Speaker 2: of that in like the digital rights management world and
Speaker 2: the stuff of you know, tech nowadays. I've never thought
Speaker 2: of it as in potentially I'm assuming we're actually talking
Speaker 2: about water marks here, maybe, or maybe paper the paper
Speaker 2: that was used to create them.
Speaker 4: The age of the paper, the age of the ink,
Speaker 4: the indentations, which can also tell us about the creation
Speaker 4: process at the time.
Speaker 2: Dang, I don't know how I didn't know about that
Speaker 2: as a term and as a thing. That is so cool.
Speaker 4: Look, man, if you were in the Ivory Tower, you
Speaker 4: have to really focus in on your area of expertise.
Speaker 4: So these folks chose tarot guards.
Speaker 3: You know. What it also kind of relates to is
Speaker 3: a real good plumber will use forensic water marking to
Speaker 3: trace the provenance of a leak. So it's similar set
Speaker 3: of skills. You know, you're basically like your you're a
Speaker 3: water detec.
Speaker 4: Yes. So these clever boffins have figured out that what
Speaker 4: we call tarot cards in the modern iteration probably do
Speaker 4: date back to Italy in the early fifteenth century. And
Speaker 4: these cards, again, we cannot emphasize this enough. These cards
Speaker 4: again were a game for very wealthy people, the one
Speaker 4: percenters of various Italian regions in the day. They expanded
Speaker 4: from there throughout Europe with other rich people meeting each
Speaker 4: other essentially right and from Italy we see other countries
Speaker 4: other regions occasionally putting their own spin upon things. So
Speaker 4: the modern standard tarot deck that you might be shuffling now.
Speaker 4: Is probably based on the Venetian or Piedmontese tarot. That's
Speaker 4: going to be seventy eight cards divided between the twenty
Speaker 4: two card major arcana and the fifty six card minor
Speaker 4: ar kana. And we know what major arcana is, right,
Speaker 4: that's where that's where you get something that has like
Speaker 4: a face on it in a certain direction, and it'd
Speaker 4: be up or down, and it could be you're right,
Speaker 4: it could be up or down. And we have the
Speaker 4: minor arcana. The other fifty six cards. They're usually going
Speaker 4: to come to you in four suits, wands, cups, swords,
Speaker 4: or pentacles. Sometimes those are also circles or coins.
Speaker 2: And you may be thinking that sounds so familiar. There's
Speaker 2: four different types of the card that you could get, right, hmmm,
Speaker 2: I swear I've played a game like that before with cars.
Speaker 3: Are you talking about Pokemon?
Speaker 2: No? No, I'm just talking about clubs and spades.
Speaker 3: I thought you were talking about the different evolutions of
Speaker 3: particular Pokemon, because I believe through valid or are there
Speaker 3: only three? Maybe only three? Sorry?
Speaker 2: The Magician is only a basic uh Pokemon? What does
Speaker 2: it become?
Speaker 3: Ben becomes the Magician? Might become the sorcerer, right.
Speaker 2: And then levels up to the tower.
Speaker 4: There's always the higher refin. Let me see, I got
Speaker 4: a tower card here, I think, uh, but we uh
Speaker 4: will while I'm looking for the tower card. Sorry, guys,
Speaker 4: Uh okay, we're going to keep that one. Uh while
Speaker 4: we're looking for the tower card. We need to ask
Speaker 4: why and how this evolved from a regular garden variety
Speaker 4: or court game variety card game into a tool of divination.
Speaker 4: The answer probably dates back to French occultist in the
Speaker 4: eighteenth century. From what we know about them. They started
Speaker 4: to spin tales in the seventeen hundreds and they were saying, oh,
Speaker 4: this is an ancient art descended from Egypt or Greece
Speaker 4: or and they were cold reading right Noel Matt, Like
Speaker 4: you guys said earlier, they saw someone walk into the room,
Speaker 4: they looked at how they were dressed and how they
Speaker 4: were moving, and they were like, this guy loves Egypt.
Speaker 4: Let's tell them this stuff is Egyptian. So they made
Speaker 4: it exotic, and they made it seem ancient, and they
Speaker 4: definitely embellished it. The problem is their stories are untrue.
Speaker 4: From everything we can find, the origin story of the
Speaker 4: taro is fourteen hundreds in Italy and it's pretty popular
Speaker 4: in the modern day. Statistically, Folks, you or someone you
Speaker 4: know has a tarot deck at home right now as
Speaker 4: we record on May fourth, twenty twenty six, May the
Speaker 4: Fourth be with you.
Speaker 2: Well, the one I was flashing up, that's all. It
Speaker 2: looks holographic, this little thing. This is based on a
Speaker 2: dude named Arthur Edward Wait, who was this very fascinating
Speaker 2: dude who was into the occult and he had involvement
Speaker 2: in the Golden Dawn that we've met about before.
Speaker 4: Order at the Golden Dawn.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm, my favorite class from Elden Ring.
Speaker 2: Well, then it's really interesting how what you're saying, what
Speaker 2: we're talking about here is that other people who have
Speaker 2: made further decks, who or who've created newer decks. Right,
Speaker 2: he Wait passed away in nineteen forty two, but he
Speaker 2: was around since eighteen fifty seven. As people make different
Speaker 2: decks they might find somewhere at like an esoteric bookstore
Speaker 2: or something, often have symbols and meaning way different or
Speaker 2: beyond the meanings that Ben you're describing here that were
Speaker 2: originally a part of the decks, like the Hermitic order
Speaker 2: one as its own thing going on that is completely
Speaker 2: separate or much separate from those original decks.
Speaker 4: One hundred percent. Yeah, because in the original tarot decks,
Speaker 4: which were part of what we call tarot games, the
Speaker 4: major arcata are considered trump cards, right, They're considered big
Speaker 4: deal of face cards. They're not about your future, They're
Speaker 4: about winning the game. And taro is now increasingly anomalous
Speaker 4: in this very secular world it has. It's interesting because
Speaker 4: it hasn't been vilified as much as other recent inventions
Speaker 4: like the Ouija board. So people, if you talk to
Speaker 4: them here in the West, especially, they're often gonna say
Speaker 4: tarot cards are a fun diversion. And other people do
Speaker 4: take their readings quite seriously. They might read cards for themselves,
Speaker 4: their friends, or to know your point earlier. They might
Speaker 4: have regular clients. That person who use guys do through
Speaker 4: divination may have people who check in every week. And
Speaker 4: we have to ask, was this person using the writer
Speaker 4: weight taro.
Speaker 3: It's the traditional one that I'm used to seeing. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so yeah, I think the basic og one. And of course,
Speaker 3: like you know, like you said, uh, inversions mean something.
Speaker 3: It was a it was a couple's reading. It involved
Speaker 3: a lot more cards on the table than I'm used
Speaker 3: to seeing, But again I don't really know enough to
Speaker 3: know if they were doing it quote unquote right, you know.
Speaker 4: But it didn't look like a Celtic cross or Celtic cross. Yeah. Okay,
Speaker 4: So writer Weight, which should be called writer weaight Smith.
Speaker 4: That version of the Tarot Deck is first published in
Speaker 4: nineteen o nine by a guy named William Ryder and
Speaker 4: Son or a publishing outfit, and it was based on
Speaker 4: the opinions of a guy named A Weight. It's illustrated
Speaker 4: by Amla Colman Smith. Now, Weight was an academic of note,
Speaker 4: and similar to Parsons, he was also very much an
Speaker 4: occultist when that was still seen as something that would
Speaker 4: not remove scientific credibility. They were both both Weight and
Speaker 4: Smith are members of what we mentioned, the hermetic Order
Speaker 4: of the Golden Down.
Speaker 2: Dude, this is Weight guy is so fascinating because not
Speaker 2: only was he hanging out in the Golden Dawn, he's
Speaker 2: a rose Crucian or the Societas rose Crusiana, uh whatever
Speaker 2: it is. But he was a part of that. But
Speaker 2: he was also a Freemason. Right, So we're when we're
Speaker 2: saying in occultest, this dude, is all about some of
Speaker 2: these secret societies, some of these groups that are pretty
Speaker 2: close knit. You're not allowed to know the stuff unless
Speaker 2: you become a member and you work your way up.
Speaker 2: Similar to what was what was this story? It just
Speaker 2: came out guys, speed running scientificlogy.
Speaker 4: Yes, you can't.
Speaker 2: You can't get it. You can't become a rose crucion
Speaker 2: in the way that Weight was if you just open
Speaker 2: a door and run through a couple of hallways.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because they don't have the same audit machine. Their
Speaker 4: rituals are quite complex, uh and take a long time
Speaker 4: and have a lot of sex.
Speaker 2: Oh well, well, in the things that I'm talking about with
Speaker 2: weight right now, I'm just imagining there is so much
Speaker 2: information that gets that gets crushed down into let's say,
Speaker 2: a single symbol if you're in the Hermetic Order of
Speaker 2: the Golden Dawn, that that one symbol has so much
Speaker 2: meaning it can mean various things. Then you add another
Speaker 2: symbol next to it, and now you've changed the meaning
Speaker 2: of the original one, and you can make these like
Speaker 2: endlessly complex concepts just with different symbols, which is what
Speaker 2: they do on this other Tarot deck. And it's very
Speaker 2: interesting to me thinking about someone in interested in the
Speaker 2: occult in this way, guys, as in you are laying
Speaker 2: symbols on top of symbols and creating even more complexity.
Speaker 2: And then just how that could translate back into someone
Speaker 2: giving you a cold reading with a card like let's
Speaker 2: say the magician from their medic order. It's got it's
Speaker 2: hard to see right here, but if you like pause
Speaker 2: that maybe for a second, you can see all of
Speaker 2: the different symbols that a reader someone performing the thing
Speaker 2: that they did for you, nol. They could pull from
Speaker 2: any one of those symbols and apply it somehow to you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interpretation. And while the writer weight I think
Speaker 4: we should call it the writer weight Smith Tarot decks.
Speaker 4: It's far and away the most popular deck in the West,
Speaker 4: but you will find no shortage of other decks in
Speaker 4: the game with their own spin on things, like you'll
Speaker 4: see the modern Witch tarot deck that uses custom contemporary
Speaker 4: artwork based on the riginal system, magical or mechanical, whatever
Speaker 4: you want to call it. Also thought of you, Matt,
Speaker 4: because while capitalism is pretty in style right now, you
Speaker 4: will see tons of bespoke tarot decks that are branded partnerships.
Speaker 4: You'll see themed decks for all sorts of stuff, all
Speaker 4: sorts of films, your favorite novels. And this is why
Speaker 4: I thought of all our fellow Magic the Gathering fans.
Speaker 4: It's similar to how the Wizards of the Coast years
Speaker 4: back said, let's take MTG across other intellectual properties. Let's
Speaker 4: make a Spider Man release, Let's make a Lord of
Speaker 4: the Rings.
Speaker 3: Release, Ninja Turtles perhaps, yes, yes, you see that Wizards
Speaker 3: is doing that. Matt claravoyance in a half shell with
Speaker 3: magic cards?
Speaker 2: Who thought that already came out great pre release? I
Speaker 2: was surprised. It was that.
Speaker 3: You know that that muscleman guy Malibu, that guy on
Speaker 3: the internet, he loves the magic cards and he was
Speaker 3: he was going to the shop and buying the new
Speaker 3: Turtles decks.
Speaker 4: And that is exactly what tarot cards are doing in
Speaker 4: the West. And we'll get into why before we Before
Speaker 4: we really get into whether these things work, we should,
Speaker 4: in the interest of fairness, talked about how to conduct
Speaker 4: a tarot reading.
Speaker 2: We should, But can we just acknowledge that there is
Speaker 2: a Dungeons and Dragons tarot deck that you can get
Speaker 2: right now. It's and it looks amazing. There's also an
Speaker 2: MTG tarot deck. You can buy it right now. I
Speaker 2: didn't know that, man, Thank you.
Speaker 4: So okay, awesome. We're going to read the cards and
Speaker 4: I can already sense a disturbance in the universe. Several
Speaker 4: of us in the audience just lost a lot of money,
Speaker 4: uh thanks to magic the gather.
Speaker 3: They keep threatening to get involved, and every time I do,
Speaker 3: Matt just says, I hope you got a bunch of
Speaker 3: disposable income.
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, yes, it's like time mostly time. You
Speaker 2: gotta have a lot of.
Speaker 4: So we'll keep the explanation about how to do a
Speaker 4: tarot reading very simple. Think of the major arcana in
Speaker 4: your weight deck as the major life event things the
Speaker 4: minor arcana. Those four suits can be thought to deal
Speaker 4: with more like day to day stuff. So if you
Speaker 4: are a beginner, right, if you square one day one stuff, buddy,
Speaker 4: then you start with a yes or no question, is
Speaker 4: my financial situation going to take a positive direction? Is
Speaker 4: my current or future relationship going to work out? This
Speaker 4: is a super great way to begin dipping your toes
Speaker 4: into a deck before you graduate to more abstract open
Speaker 4: ended queries. So a lot of people are going to
Speaker 4: start with a three card spread. Three card spread, you
Speaker 4: take random cards from the deck and you pull one
Speaker 4: to represent maybe the past, the present, the future.
Speaker 2: One thing that I have heard and I was taught
Speaker 2: is that it is vitally important that the only person
Speaker 2: touching touching that is the person that is being read for. Essentially,
Speaker 2: you are the target because you are putting your intention
Speaker 2: into the cars as you shuffle them and move them
Speaker 2: around and then potentially make those selections. So if we're
Speaker 2: talking about fate right versus free will versus, how does
Speaker 2: that play into the actual reading itself? If you put
Speaker 2: any sand in it at all, It's important that you're
Speaker 2: the one doing it, not you know, the person reading
Speaker 2: for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't want to get mixed energies, you know
Speaker 3: in the equation.
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's get to that part. And also we what
Speaker 4: to acknowledge before we get to that that. Other popular,
Speaker 4: more advanced spreads or constellations or arrangements are going to
Speaker 4: be things like the Celtic Cross. That's a specific layout
Speaker 4: of ten cards. You'll see that pretty often. We've got
Speaker 4: a picture here in the outline as well. This is
Speaker 4: very common, and there are also countless variations on these approaches,
Speaker 4: So if you are working with tarot cards for your
Speaker 4: first time, you can also learn the rules and then
Speaker 4: you can make up arrangements or patterns or discover arrangements
Speaker 4: or patterns that feel meaningful to you, and you should
Speaker 4: feel free to do so. But whatever approach you take,
Speaker 4: the rules for getting started are pretty simple. Find a quiet,
Speaker 4: peaceful place seen and setting right, just like hallucinogens, be
Speaker 4: in a relaxed state of mind. And if you are
Speaker 4: past the beginning phase, it's better to ask an open
Speaker 4: ended question and then really visualize it as you're shuffling.
Speaker 4: You know what I mean. The pro level tarot folks
Speaker 4: are going to tell you that yes or no questions
Speaker 4: are okay if you're a beginner, but a more broad
Speaker 4: question will really get your deck room to maneuver and articulate.
Speaker 4: And like old magic, which is I would argue weaponized psychology,
Speaker 4: you have to think while you shuffle with real intention.
Speaker 4: This transfers your energy into the cards. For the true believers,
Speaker 4: and that is part of why people get so squirrely
Speaker 4: about other folks touching their decks. You have to cleanse
Speaker 4: it right with incense or a ritual of some sort
Speaker 4: or peep just too. No Ah, Yes, you're talking about
Speaker 4: the weight and p deck.
Speaker 2: That's right. Yes, Well, if you want to go a
Speaker 2: little more hermetic order of the Golden Dawn with it,
Speaker 2: you could put other yep substances on it.
Speaker 4: You sure could. It might mess up your shuffle. So yeah,
Speaker 4: to your best, were.
Speaker 3: You talking about blood and semen?
Speaker 2: We are?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, maybe a little, maybe a couple boogers too.
Speaker 4: Check out our upcoming episode on Alistair Crowley. So lay
Speaker 4: these cards out after you shuffle them and you've given
Speaker 4: them your intention in whatever arrangement you have chosen. Walk
Speaker 4: through the meanings of the cards in both their placement,
Speaker 4: their significance to you, and their relationship importantly to one another.
Speaker 4: A Tarot card guide is great for this. It also
Speaker 4: often comes along with the modern tarot dec You might
Speaker 4: buy and then whila viola. If everything works according to plan,
Speaker 4: you're gonna feel like you've gained insight into your inquiry.
Speaker 4: Maybe you feel you received a prediction from beyond or
Speaker 4: communication from someone in your past, living or dead, or
Speaker 4: maybe you just got further clarity on a difficult decision.
Speaker 4: A lot of people consider it interesting and fun, but
Speaker 4: also a ton of people do take these results seriously.
Speaker 2: Can I just confirm that you said viola and voila?
Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, I like.
Speaker 4: Say and I like doing both of the mean I've
Speaker 4: made it up for this. We'll see if it ends
Speaker 4: up being a thing. But I could see it get cartoons.
Speaker 2: I like it a lot.
Speaker 4: Well, so we know that, uh, we know that people
Speaker 4: may make major life decisions based on what they feel
Speaker 4: they've gleaned right from their cards. And now we get
Speaker 4: to the major arcana of the question, do tarot cards
Speaker 4: actually work? We'll be back afterword from our sponsors. Here's
Speaker 4: where it gets crazy. We don't often get to say this,
Speaker 4: but yes, tarot cards work sort of. It depends on
Speaker 4: what we mean by work. I mean there are loads
Speaker 4: of people who believe a tarot deck has actively predicted
Speaker 4: their future or given them some epiphany or revelation some sort.
Speaker 4: But there's no hard, reproducible scientific study proving that to
Speaker 4: be anything more than coincidence or self guided behavior. Right, Like,
Speaker 4: here's a thought experiment. What guys, what if we cast
Speaker 4: ethics aside and we tested the accuracy of tarot cards
Speaker 4: by having people that we knew were going to die,
Speaker 4: like death row inmates, and we had a reading right
Speaker 4: before they were executed, and we saw how often the
Speaker 4: death card comes up.
Speaker 3: Right on.
Speaker 2: Should we hmm? Should we do one for Cole Allen?
Speaker 2: But he's in jail right now for the attempted assassination
Speaker 2: of the president.
Speaker 3: It's so funny. I didn't even clock that dude's name.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's probably not safe.
Speaker 3: Tower, I would think not.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Also, uh, do we think.
Speaker 2: That we're going to talk about it and listener?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure I was talking to with
Speaker 4: some folks earlier about that one.
Speaker 3: I'm intrigued.
Speaker 4: Chat Okay, but you guys see what I'm saying about
Speaker 4: that exercise That ethics aside, that would be a good
Speaker 4: way to see whether there is something beating statistics. I mean, gentlemen,
Speaker 4: we know there are dozens of problems with conducting scientific
Speaker 4: evaluations of Tarot card efficacy. The meanings are open to interpretation.
Speaker 4: The reader interpreter can stack the odds. So if, for example,
Speaker 4: like our pal Nole, you go to a professional psychic
Speaker 4: or fortune teller, they may practice cold readings, so they're
Speaker 4: picking up on sub or unconscious clues from you from
Speaker 4: their client. They're bending their interpretation, possibly to what they
Speaker 4: think the client needs to hear. That's kind of unethical,
Speaker 4: not saying all these folks or drifters, but riddled me this.
Speaker 4: How do you get certified to be a Tarot card reader?
Speaker 3: Now this I did not know about.
Speaker 4: Ben.
Speaker 3: I guess I assumed, as with most things, there's some
Speaker 3: sort of maybe not governing body, but an association of sorts.
Speaker 3: But I've never really taken the time to look into it.
Speaker 3: So I think this is going to be educational for
Speaker 3: a lot of us.
Speaker 2: Well, this is really cool stuff. Look, it's very interesting
Speaker 2: to me personally. I think it's a cool thing that
Speaker 2: you can do kind of in the same way you
Speaker 2: can get YouTube certified, you know, or you can get
Speaker 2: certified to use specific things. You can become an official
Speaker 2: like Wizards of the Coast, Magic the Gathering player or
Speaker 2: judge or things like that. I think it's cool that
Speaker 2: something that there are places you can go both physically
Speaker 2: and online to become a reader with like a certificate
Speaker 2: you could put in the background.
Speaker 4: You definitely could get a certificate. We don't have, uh,
Speaker 4: we have a ton of them in the background now.
Speaker 4: But it's similar to being a ufologist or being a medium.
Speaker 4: There is no mandatory accreditation, there's no mandatory ethics committee
Speaker 4: that will judge you because tarot is not regulated. So
Speaker 4: you don't need a license or a degree to buy
Speaker 4: a deck right if you order one online right now,
Speaker 4: or you go to a shop, they're not going to
Speaker 4: ask you to see your paperwork. It's not treated the
Speaker 4: same way as say, buy it the firearm, or prescribing
Speaker 4: people drugs.
Speaker 3: Can you imagine though, if if quote unquote spiritualist or
Speaker 3: magical artifacts like that were governed by some sort of
Speaker 3: like regulatory body, that's the kind of stuff you think.
Speaker 3: I guess that's like Harry Potter type stuff, you know,
Speaker 3: a study of magic.
Speaker 4: Did you ever see h Do you ever see the
Speaker 4: Netflix film? Right?
Speaker 3: You know it didn't, But is it pretty good?
Speaker 4: I think it's cool. I'm very biased because I'm in
Speaker 4: the demographic.
Speaker 3: But it's a superhero kind of like a weird one,
Speaker 3: like a scary one.
Speaker 4: It's a world in which magic exists but is highly
Speaker 4: dangerous and highly regulated. Also, orcs, elves and other fantasy
Speaker 4: creatures are real, but it's like a gritty street level
Speaker 4: story about two cops.
Speaker 3: Who get into starring William Smith.
Speaker 4: Yeah, sorry will Smith.
Speaker 2: Joel Egger, did I remember? It was really fun? Like, uh,
Speaker 2: I don't think I loved it, but I definitely didn't
Speaker 2: have a bad time.
Speaker 4: It was a Netflix release, it was we love Netflix,
Speaker 4: and I yeah, I love eating popcorn to it, you
Speaker 4: know what I mean.
Speaker 3: It's funny. Guys. You look up Bright on the Internet
Speaker 3: and this is I've noticed of late. The first thing
Speaker 3: that comes up is was Bright a good movie? And
Speaker 3: the Internet says that it was highly divisive but an
Speaker 3: urban fantasy with a fascinating premise.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm telling you, gritty street Level. If you if
Speaker 4: you like comic book films, you're going to like brite.
Speaker 4: And in that world, in that fictional world, there is,
Speaker 4: just as you are describing NOL, a huge emphasis in
Speaker 4: industry on controlling magical artifacts. That is not happening right now.
Speaker 4: You can just go buy tarot cards, and I'm sure
Speaker 4: there are very conservative religious institutions that are mad about that.
Speaker 4: But if we also have on the other side, we
Speaker 4: do have we do have independent organizations that will give
Speaker 4: you some type of validation or credibility a certificate, but
Speaker 4: you don't have to get it. It's all voluntary. Probably
Speaker 4: one of the more famous ones is the Tarot Guild.
Speaker 4: They will certify you to be a Tarot reader, a
Speaker 4: Tarot professional, a Tarot Master, and a Tarot Grandmaster.
Speaker 2: A CTGM.
Speaker 3: Yeah, my kid's mom is into all this stuff pretty heavily,
Speaker 3: and it fascinates me her level of knowledge on the subjects.
Speaker 3: And she's not into tarot cards. She's into something called
Speaker 3: oracle cards, which are get a little bit different.
Speaker 2: Yes, the MTG deck I was telling you about, that's
Speaker 2: an oracle deck, the one you can buy right now.
Speaker 2: It's not. It's not a tarot deck. The D and
Speaker 2: D one is a tarot deck.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it would appear that oracle cars are a little
Speaker 3: less standardized and involve a little bit more intuitive based
Speaker 3: readings rather than governed by you know, a certain set
Speaker 3: of rules.
Speaker 4: I love it. What an awesome set up.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, we're talking a lot about what if you
Speaker 2: get your fortune read by someone? Right, you go to
Speaker 2: a service, somebody does your reading for you, or at
Speaker 2: least interprets the cards you throw for you. I don't
Speaker 2: I know if you guys found this. I have used
Speaker 2: taro before. I don't put a lot of sand into it,
Speaker 2: but I think it's a lot of fun. I have
Speaker 2: found the most rewarding versions of this are when I
Speaker 2: throw my own cards free, because because I don't need
Speaker 2: someone else to interpret anything, I just I've got huge
Speaker 2: lists of the meetings behind all of these different symbols
Speaker 2: and all these things. Then I can kind of piece
Speaker 2: together concepts and ideas about what I'm either troubled by
Speaker 2: or thinking about. I'm actually kind of a fan of
Speaker 2: that because it just becomes an exercise in introspection rather
Speaker 2: than I don't know, fortune telling, if that makes sense.
Speaker 4: The cards were right about this one, because we don't
Speaker 4: have to be qualified quote unquote to conduct a reading.
Speaker 4: Self reading is very common, extraordinarily common. And you know, again,
Speaker 4: because of this issue about certification and accreditation, you might
Speaker 4: be yelling in your car on Netflix right now and saying, hey, guy, guys,
Speaker 4: I thought you said this stuff was working, and now
Speaker 4: it sounds like you're telling me it's hogwash. This is
Speaker 4: the thing. Okay. A lot of people are gonna dismiss
Speaker 4: taro because of ties to occultism and superstition, but you
Speaker 4: do not actually need any wo wo for taro to
Speaker 4: be a valuable tool, which should probably get.
Speaker 3: Into it well, like a psychological tool. But yeah, you
Speaker 3: know a way, it's almost a form of I mean,
Speaker 3: it requires a good practitioner, but it is about kind
Speaker 3: of what you bring to it, and it can reveal
Speaker 3: things almost in like a Rorschach test kind of fashion.
Speaker 4: Maybe.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So some tarot proponents are going to argue that
Speaker 4: the cards and your interaction with them function based on
Speaker 4: what Carl Jung called synchronicity. Shout out to our old
Speaker 4: alma matter how stuff works. According to Young, synchronicity explained
Speaker 4: the guiding forces of the universe in a non linear way.
Speaker 4: So things you might see as coincidence are actually signs
Speaker 4: that help us guide our decisions and determine our paths
Speaker 4: in life if we can recognize them. And that's where
Speaker 4: it ties into like quantum mechanics. I think we're all
Speaker 4: four of us fans of quantum mechanics, but we haven't
Speaker 4: checked with Tennessee uh, Dylan, real quick, did you ever
Speaker 4: use a tarot deck?
Speaker 3: I have divined the tarot. I have some friends who
Speaker 3: are into it. Yeah, and I felt okay as long
Speaker 3: as I didn't get the tower? Oh wait, tower bad?
Speaker 4: The tower?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, this is right ways up, so the other
Speaker 4: way down is yeah, it's a thing.
Speaker 2: The Hermitic Deck calls it the blasted Tower, and it
Speaker 2: has a picture of the tower exploding.
Speaker 3: Isn't that funny? A tower seems so innocuous and death
Speaker 3: seems so bad. But apparently death is kind of neutral
Speaker 3: or it's not inherently you know you're going to die
Speaker 3: the death of what exactly? Thank you, Matt, thank you?
Speaker 4: And also, uh also Nolan, Matt, would death reverse not
Speaker 4: be life?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 4: I'm really happy with this one.
Speaker 3: Okay, So all right, can you reach by the way? Yes?
Speaker 4: Yeah, most people do, got it? Yeah? And this maybe
Speaker 4: goes into quantum mechanics. It's a branch of physics that
Speaker 4: explains the relationships of particles and they're seemingly inexplicable, interconnective entanglement, entanglement.
Speaker 3: Sort of like Jada Pinkett Smith and her young lover.
Speaker 4: So what was it? I was an entanglement. Entanglements, there's
Speaker 4: quants of entanglements. I mean, quantum mechanics is ultimately at
Speaker 4: present it is a marriage of math, mystery and what
Speaker 4: may as well be Arthur C. Clark level magic. So
Speaker 4: it makes sense for us to understand that that some
Speaker 4: people might say tarot cards are a symptom of quantum mechanics.
Speaker 4: You're interacting with and observing these cards, so you may
Speaker 4: be creating some timey whimy stuff that indicates probabilities. Still,
Speaker 4: there's a problem with this, guys, because quantum mechanics teaches
Speaker 4: us things like wave collapse, which means that, according to
Speaker 4: the inherent principles of quantum mechanics, once you see the
Speaker 4: possible outcomes in your tarot reading, you have collapsed the
Speaker 4: wave of probability as you observed it. You have touched
Speaker 4: it with your mind, so you may have changed your
Speaker 4: own future by looking at your future. It's like the
Speaker 4: butterfly effects, Yeah yeah, or anathem there you go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, You'll potentially see things in the world around you
Speaker 2: and connected back to a card that you threw, and
Speaker 2: now you're going to change a decision that you were
Speaker 2: going to make based on that card you saw, which
Speaker 2: means who who is really changing fate there or you know,
Speaker 2: deciding what your future is going to be? It is
Speaker 2: it's probably you, but the card may actually influence what
Speaker 2: you decide, which is weird to think about.
Speaker 4: Obviously, more than a few statisticians, card sharks and skeptics
Speaker 4: are going to immediately poopoo this idea, dismiss it entirely. Still,
Speaker 4: I think it would be pretty epic, you guys, to
Speaker 4: have a bunch of quantum physicists and get together and
Speaker 4: do readings for each other, not self reads, you know
Speaker 4: what I mean. Let's get the twelve weirdest, smartest physicists
Speaker 4: in a room I don't know, give them a vice
Speaker 4: of some sort too much coffee, and see what they
Speaker 4: come up with. Thing is, if this synchronicity idea does
Speaker 4: not bag your badgers, if it doesn't quite shuffle your deck,
Speaker 4: how about we consider a more provable option, tarot is psychology.
Speaker 4: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors,
Speaker 4: and we've returned. This is by far the most plausible
Speaker 4: explanation for why so many people swear by tarot cards
Speaker 4: or feel that at least a few times, the mysterious
Speaker 4: deck got something inexplicably right. What we're teasing there just
Speaker 4: a few moments ago is the phenomenon known as retroactive rationalization.
Speaker 3: For sure. So let's just say, by way of example,
Speaker 3: that you ask your deck a question. Doesn't really matter
Speaker 3: what it is. But for our purposes here, let's go
Speaker 3: with an old trustee. Will I meet the love of
Speaker 3: my life? And in some amount of time after the
Speaker 3: reading explosions happens, there she is across the room. You
Speaker 3: see her, and you know you knew from the moment
Speaker 3: you laid eyes on her. Counting exactly, thank you as
Speaker 3: the longest number. It's a reason to believe. So you
Speaker 3: have a whirlwind romance and then eventually you perhaps elope.
Speaker 4: Yeah it congratulations first off, if it's just happened to you. Also,
Speaker 4: what we have to tell you is that your brain
Speaker 4: will tend to conspire against you, and it will attempt
Speaker 4: to discern patterns and connections between the past and present.
Speaker 4: If you are human, your brain hates coincidence like hates it.
Speaker 4: And if you are human, you descend from a very
Speaker 4: long line of ancestors who use this obsession with pattern
Speaker 4: recognition as a survival mechanism. You literally cannot escape this, folks.
Speaker 4: You can only try to be aware of that primal urge.
Speaker 3: I mean, A good example of that that I've been
Speaker 3: thinking about a lot lately is Betermeinhoff where you discover
Speaker 3: a new word, a new concept here, a song for
Speaker 3: the first time, and then all of a sudden, there
Speaker 3: it is because you're brain. It's taking that new thing
Speaker 3: you learned and finding it elsewhere in the world. And
Speaker 3: you wouldn't have been looking for it, or your brain
Speaker 3: wouldn't have been looking for it if you didn't really
Speaker 3: know about it, or it hadn't piqued your interest of late.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a there's a real world try this at
Speaker 4: home thing you can do, folks to see how tarot
Speaker 4: cards can work. In terms of retroactive rationalization, it's called
Speaker 4: the Benjamin Franklin effect. So let's say, here's the gist.
Speaker 4: If you know someone who doesn't like you right, or
Speaker 4: they're rude to you, or they're a bully or dismissive
Speaker 4: or something like that, they're a bad coworker. If you
Speaker 4: ask them for a small, easily accomplished favor, they will
Speaker 4: tend to do so, and it will tend to improve
Speaker 4: their opinion or estimation of you. This is a real hack.
Speaker 4: This does work. So if you, for instance, politely and
Speaker 4: sincerely ask a cranky co worker for something small, like, hey,
Speaker 4: can I borrow a pen. Uh, they will probably give
Speaker 4: you the thing if you're not a jerk when you're asking,
Speaker 4: if you're diplomatic, and then later they will think, well,
Speaker 4: I know I'm a good person and I do good stuff,
Speaker 4: so I must have given so and so that pen
Speaker 4: because they're not that bad either. It works.
Speaker 3: Pens also, much like lighters, belong to the universe.
Speaker 4: There. Yeah, no one owns No one owns a good
Speaker 4: book either.
Speaker 2: You can also talk to your cranky coworkers and maybe
Speaker 2: work it out.
Speaker 3: Just this, Yes, always seek the diplomatic option before resorting
Speaker 3: to violence or penmanship.
Speaker 4: Yes, I mean it's it's crazy because this proves that
Speaker 4: a like people like people will tend to like someone
Speaker 4: more when they ask them where they are asked for favor,
Speaker 4: because it gives them this sort of heroic perspective of
Speaker 4: themselves in some light. So we're only saying the Benjamin
Speaker 4: Franklin effect because we couldn't work it into another show,
Speaker 4: and because we wanted to prove this is part of
Speaker 4: a psychological conspiracy perpetrated upon you by you. So in
Speaker 4: the case of Tarot, this can usually be a pretty
Speaker 4: wholesome conspiracy, Like do you guys remember all those fun
Speaker 4: quizzes from earlier on the internet, like oh what animal?
Speaker 4: And am I what's my anagram? What does my horoscope
Speaker 4: say about me today? Did you guys ever play those?
Speaker 2: You mean, the how stuff works and their famous quizzes
Speaker 2: that HowStuffWorks? Dot Com treating hundreds of thousands of quizzes.
Speaker 3: Which were quite popular.
Speaker 4: It's true or we're you know, back to the days
Speaker 4: of MySpace. Those kinds of Facebook would be ground zero
Speaker 4: for a lot of this stuff. These things were all
Speaker 4: over social media. Yeah, they turned out to be data heist,
Speaker 4: but they were kind of fun because they gave the
Speaker 4: test taker the participant, a new way of regarding themselves,
Speaker 4: their relationships, and their decisions. Tarot's kind of the same thing.
Speaker 4: Since I'm doing dated references, guys, remember the old magic
Speaker 4: eye paintings.
Speaker 3: Oh how could I forget? And the plot point in
Speaker 3: the movie Malrats, or that one guy couldn't see the
Speaker 3: magic Eye? It was the same, Oh I forgot, I
Speaker 3: could never see them either. To be honest, they always
Speaker 3: made my head hurt.
Speaker 4: Right, that's the thing, because our connection here is that
Speaker 4: the magic eye pictures. Right, you had to lean in
Speaker 4: real close and then slowly draw back right, and you
Speaker 4: would see something that looked like a three D image.
Speaker 4: The world around you is not changing when you ask
Speaker 4: a question or pull a spread on a tarot card. Instead,
Speaker 4: it is your internal mechanism that is transforming. Your perception
Speaker 4: is changing, and you're prompted by a system of symbols
Speaker 4: and meanings that are just vague enough for you to
Speaker 4: start looking at things in a different way. You know
Speaker 4: what I mean? Does that make sense?
Speaker 3: Guess absolutely it does. Recontextualizing your own story.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, that's a better way to put it all.
Speaker 4: I mean, Blake, what if we ask an open ended question,
Speaker 4: how will things work out with my newest relationship? You
Speaker 4: do a reading or an expert conducts one for you.
Speaker 4: These randomly drawn cards give new symbolism how you think
Speaker 4: about the relationship. Maybe your first card is the Fool.
Speaker 4: It's a very old one. I don't know if it's
Speaker 4: visible here, but the fool is in a nice placement.
Speaker 4: It means new adventures, new beginnings, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 4: That might make you look at your immediate future in
Speaker 4: a more optimistic light.
Speaker 3: I kind of wonder, too, though, how confirmation bias plays
Speaker 3: into this and looking this up, just refamiliarizing myself about
Speaker 3: the history of that. I didn't realize that it was
Speaker 3: something that the philosopher Francis Bacon coined back in sixteen twenty,
Speaker 3: and much like better Mainhoeff, this idea of seeking out
Speaker 3: these patterns automatically without having to really, you know, think
Speaker 3: about it at all. Our brains tend to glom onto
Speaker 3: information and interpret it in such a way that confirms
Speaker 3: the things we already believe and to reinforce maybe our
Speaker 3: most positive versions of the way things way we want
Speaker 3: things to go.
Speaker 4: Benjamin Franklin in fact applied to the self, right. I mean, look,
Speaker 4: it could sound like when we're explaining it this way
Speaker 4: we are arguing against tarot cards. I would pause it.
Speaker 4: We certainly are not, right, are we? All? Fans of these?
Speaker 3: I think they're beautiful. I love the design just strictly
Speaker 3: from an art object perspective. I think they're really neat,
Speaker 3: and all of this stuff is incredibly fascinating to me.
Speaker 3: I don't know that I put any direct spiritual belief
Speaker 3: into them, but I really love the psychology angle. And again,
Speaker 3: I just am a fan of cool pieces of art,
Speaker 3: and there's so many different ways of designing them and
Speaker 3: interpreting them, and it's a cool thing to collect too.
Speaker 4: Frankly, Yeah, you think iconography is I.
Speaker 3: Do like religious iconography, and there is something very while
Speaker 3: not religious at heart. There are some images images on
Speaker 3: the tarot cards, like the lovers is kind of Adam
Speaker 3: and Eve like. I don't know, maybe they're not really
Speaker 3: meant to be direct correlations with the Bible, but they
Speaker 3: do come off as classic kind of religious iconography.
Speaker 4: Very much so. And look, we are we are like
Speaker 4: you folks. Hopefully we are fascinated by the deep psychology
Speaker 4: at play behind this ancient art of interpretive cartomancy. It's
Speaker 4: fair to say this is good news. It's fair to say,
Speaker 4: based on what we know of the human mind, the
Speaker 4: magic was inside you all along, and the cards just
Speaker 4: helped you see it. So that's one to grow on.
Speaker 4: I don't know if we get a sound.
Speaker 3: Q on that, that's one to grow on. Well whatever,
Speaker 3: it was.
Speaker 2: So good guys.
Speaker 4: Okay, So as we're wrapping up, can I share a
Speaker 4: surprise with you?
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, please?
Speaker 4: Is it okay?
Speaker 3: I've been on the edge of my couch all the time.
Speaker 4: Oh man, all right, So I invented my own system
Speaker 4: of Tarot cards, and I'm still working on it. These
Speaker 4: are kind of the things that I've been holding up while.
Speaker 2: Are you asking your cranky coworkers for a favor?
Speaker 4: Ben, I am not, Matt, I am doing.
Speaker 2: Are you sure?
Speaker 4: I am sure?
Speaker 2: Are you trying to do a little tricksies?
Speaker 4: Oh? No, no, you.
Speaker 2: Made these?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: These are awesome, dude, amazing man.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I think people should be able to invent
Speaker 4: their own systems of Tarot carts. This one has, in
Speaker 4: addition to the major arcana, it has nine suits of
Speaker 4: minor arcana. I have a lot of friends outside stops.
Speaker 3: You got us, buddy, you got us. I think those
Speaker 3: are dope, man. And again case and point to what
Speaker 3: I was saying a minute ago. I love how it's
Speaker 3: so open for interpretation. Not only that's my favorite. Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: what is that one? The three of candles?
Speaker 4: Yes? He oh, you're good at this, helly.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean they're so open to not only interpretation
Speaker 3: in the readings, but in the interpretation of individuals to
Speaker 3: create their own kind of language around this stuff. And
Speaker 3: I think that's awesome. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean, we have huge fans of tarot as a
Speaker 4: concept in the audience tonight. Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 4: We have hard skeptics here as well. Thank you for
Speaker 4: joining us too. Wherever you fall on the spectrum, we
Speaker 4: want to know about your experiences and friends and neighbors.
Speaker 4: Let us know if we should create a custom stuff
Speaker 4: they don't want you to know, Tarot deck. I don't know, guys,
Speaker 4: are we up for.
Speaker 3: Ben Let's just say you are.
Speaker 4: Let's just stuff they don't want you know. There's a
Speaker 4: different thing.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, I mean, you know, we support it, but
Speaker 3: we could, we could, we could put our heads together
Speaker 3: on something like that. I'm into it. I think that's
Speaker 3: a fun idea.
Speaker 4: Well, right to accounting. Yeah, have you ever had a
Speaker 4: reading that blew your mind? Or if you had a
Speaker 4: reading that went spectacularly wrong? Or just a what is
Speaker 4: this like? Knowle's earlier encounter with the use Guy's psychic h.
Speaker 3: The infamous Use Guy's Psychic of Williamsburg.
Speaker 4: The infamous Use Guy's Psychic of Williamsburg. Maybe there is
Speaker 4: some stuff the tarot cards. I don't want you to know.
Speaker 4: We want to know. Let us hear your thoughts. Let
Speaker 4: us read your thoughts. You can find us on the lines.
Speaker 4: You can call us on the phone, You can always
Speaker 4: send us an email.
Speaker 3: Do all those things, and if you do wish to
Speaker 3: find us on the lines, do so by reaching out
Speaker 3: to the handle Conspiracy Stuff our Conspiracy Stuff show.
Speaker 2: If you want to give us a call, our number
Speaker 2: is one eight three three std WYTK. When you call in,
Speaker 2: give yourself a cool nickname and let us know if
Speaker 2: we can use your name and message on the air.
Speaker 2: And tell us what you think about this wheel of fortune?
Speaker 2: What are the different symbols in here? What do they
Speaker 2: mean to you? My hand is all shaky, so good
Speaker 2: luck to you actually understanding it. That's the wheel of fortune.
Speaker 3: You went bankrupt spirit.
Speaker 2: If you want to send us an email, we are.
Speaker 4: The entities that read each piece of correspondence we receive.
Speaker 4: Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void wrights back,
Speaker 4: so we'll see you out here in the dark. Let
Speaker 4: us know if you have designed your own tarot part system,
Speaker 4: and let's hang out conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
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