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Speaker 1: Also media, Ah, what's probably I feel like saying something

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Speaker 1: about what happened in Baltimore, but there's really no respectful

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Speaker 1: way to do that. The fucked up though, right it.

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Speaker 2: Seems that way people. Yeah, you see that Twitter is

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Speaker 2: already blaming DDI.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that would have stapped the boat from shorting out from.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, having a fucking blackout.

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Speaker 1: Well, they're obsessed. It's also shows none of them understand

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Speaker 1: how fucking container ships work, because they're all like, look

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Speaker 1: because the they had like a DEI captain aboard this

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Speaker 1: mask vessel. Marisk has a DEI program. No one from

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Speaker 1: Marisk was piloting the ship. They're never allowed to in

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Speaker 1: a harbor's it's never a pilot who works for the

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Speaker 1: company anyway.

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Speaker 3: Whatever, I still think it's batshit that like, for hours

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Speaker 3: and hours after this happened, that like National News wasn't

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Speaker 3: covering it at all, they had like, yeah, they had

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Speaker 3: like two dollars trust every journalist, commemorative commercials going on.

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Speaker 3: They had just like the stupidest interviews.

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Speaker 1: Like why why did we need.

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Speaker 3: One on one with Alf Franken in the middle of this,

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Speaker 3: and like that's why we still use fucking Twitter.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is it's all bad. I do think you

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Speaker 1: could get a job doing that, Dave. But you've got

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Speaker 1: to lay in on the DEI stuff, you know, be like,

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Speaker 1: are you do you have any Daves? You know, Dave,

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Speaker 1: equity and inclusion. You got to put some Dave's on

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Speaker 1: the team.

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Speaker 2: Equity and inclusion. Yeah, I'm going to push that now.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to put that on my resume.

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Speaker 1: Now. I definitely have this is behind the Bastards. I

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Speaker 1: don't think I introduced the podcast that this is. That's

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Speaker 1: what you did. And David Bell's here again, and David

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Speaker 1: Bell's here again. Yeah, Dave, speaking of this. You you

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Speaker 1: in your writing for Some More News. You also help

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Speaker 1: on a podcast network called Gamefully Unemployed. You to do

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Speaker 1: a lot of great stuff, including chronicle Fox Molders, baffling

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Speaker 1: career decisions in the X Files. But a big part

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Speaker 1: of what you do for Some More News is research

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Speaker 1: the increasing right word veeer of our society and the

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Speaker 1: growth of conspiracy culture, which relates to this whole boat

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Speaker 1: problem in Baltimore as people have blamed it on DEI,

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Speaker 1: and it relates to like kind of everything that's wrong

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Speaker 1: with our country, this like fracturing of consensus reality that

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Speaker 1: has kind of made it impossible to like fix anything.

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Speaker 2: The fact that everything I would argue, and I know

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Speaker 2: that conservatives would say the literally the exact same thing

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Speaker 2: about the left, but I would argue that conservatives have

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Speaker 2: politicized pretty much everything in the country at this point.

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Speaker 1: I am literally looking at a picture of a car

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Speaker 1: with Honda with Texas plates that has a dozen different

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Speaker 1: bumper stickers that say variations of Helen Keller is a fraud.

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Speaker 1: Helen Keller was not deaf.

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Speaker 2: It's well, that's just facts problem.

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Speaker 1: What was she What did she have to gain?

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Speaker 2: I have a sub reddit, I'll link it to you.

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Speaker 1: He's got a Denier bumper sticker. How is that a thing?

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Speaker 2: Incredible? I mean, yeah, I'm not surprised. We got to

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Speaker 2: a point where the CDC where a fucking pandemic happened

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Speaker 2: and it was let's take some basic precautions and that

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Speaker 2: became political.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It's real bad. It's real bad right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, It's it's shocking how bad some stuff has gotten.

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Speaker 1: And that relates to what we're talking about today, because

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Speaker 1: we ended our last episode talking about the Powell Memorandum, right,

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Speaker 1: which was this document that was written for the Chamber

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Speaker 1: of Commerce that that a a a lawyer who is

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Speaker 1: going to become a Supreme Court justice by the name

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Speaker 1: of Lewis Powell, whose previous work had been fighting against

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Speaker 1: d s ggregation and cheering on the bombing of Dresden,

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Speaker 1: wrote this thing where he's like, we need to attack

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Speaker 1: liberalism everywhere it exists, and we need to in a

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Speaker 1: comprehensive method destroy it. Part of that was destroying people

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Speaker 1: like Ralph Nader, who at this time was like forcing

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Speaker 1: had basically done a lot to force the auto industry

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Speaker 1: to add basic safety features to cars. Right, So a

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Speaker 1: chunk of this is we need to be able to

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Speaker 1: destroy people who want to make extremely modest changes that

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Speaker 1: cost corporations money and save countless lives. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: guarantee you a significant percentage of the people listening to

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Speaker 1: this podcast, including probably me, would be dead if not

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Speaker 1: for seat belts. Oh yeah, it's not a minor chunk

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Speaker 1: of us.

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Speaker 2: I've raced on the highway multiple times. It's just funny

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Speaker 2: because this is that point where let's go after liberalism.

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Speaker 2: Liberalism is not defined as any effort to make things

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Speaker 2: marginally better in a very practical way. Like we talked.

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Speaker 2: I think of the last episode about how like like

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Speaker 2: I was talking about how I don't even know the

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Speaker 2: definitions of things anymore. And that's because things like this

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Speaker 2: where I'm like, yeah, is that liberal? Like is it

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Speaker 2: liberal to want to take safety precautions? Yeah? To I

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Speaker 2: guess it is if it costs.

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Speaker 1: If you would go back in time to even to

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Speaker 1: Richard Nixon and tell him what modern conservative media people

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Speaker 1: call liberalism, Nixon would be like, what the fuck are

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Speaker 1: you talking about? What do you mean? They won't take vaccines.

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Speaker 2: It's like it's like the term wokeness, you know, it's

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Speaker 2: it's that same shit. Yeah, the vaccine stuff is always like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know how these hippie liberals love vaccines. It's like, no,

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Speaker 2: they don't.

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Speaker 1: No, it was the opposite. They were so long they

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Speaker 1: were the.

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Speaker 2: First to not like vaccines. What is happening?

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Speaker 1: That was what my mom Arch Reagan conservative. One of

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Speaker 1: the things she hated about like the left is their

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Speaker 1: anti vax shit, because she was like, why wouldn't you

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Speaker 1: want to take vaccines?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: It's it's wild how much that shit is. Like, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's this this pal memoranda is it's not just he's

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Speaker 1: talking about, like we need to cultivate political power. Wealthy

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Speaker 1: people in corporations need to be donating a percentage, like

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Speaker 1: a significant percent of their advertising budgets to funding think

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Speaker 1: tanks and efforts to put basically to flood the zone

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Speaker 1: with shit that make that can act as like a

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Speaker 1: defense against any attempt to, for example, add seat belts

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Speaker 1: to cars or anything like that. But beyond that, that's

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Speaker 1: not the only thing the Palm Mirandum orchestrates. He is

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Speaker 1: also the first guy, in a real concerted form to

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Speaker 1: say the future for the right, because of how demographics

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Speaker 1: do not favor us, the future for the right is

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Speaker 1: in taking over the courts. He is if you're looking

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Speaker 1: at what has happened to the Supreme Court in the

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Speaker 1: last eight years, Powell is the guy who starts that process,

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Speaker 1: who is laying out the strategy that is adopted by

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Speaker 1: the entire conservative movement, at least everyone with money in

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Speaker 1: the conservative movement, and his specific goal in having conservatives

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Speaker 1: take over the courts is to establish an oligarchy. In

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Speaker 1: one section of the memorandum, he uses the title for

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Speaker 1: a Neglected Opportunity in the Courts, and he suggests a

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Speaker 1: strategy for quote, exploiting judicial action to turn back progressive

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Speaker 1: and liberal victories in government and culture. Quote. Under our

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Speaker 1: constitutional system, especially with an activist minded Supreme Court, the

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Speaker 1: judiciary may be the most important instrument for social, economic,

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Speaker 1: and political change. And he is responding to this raft

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Speaker 1: of Supreme Court decisions that happened during the Civil rights

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Speaker 1: era and after that are responsible for really ending the

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Speaker 1: Jim Crow and segregation, right, Like, that's a big part

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Speaker 1: of what the Supreme Court's doing in this period. And

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Speaker 1: he's like, we have to take these back so that

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Speaker 1: we can reverse these trends.

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Speaker 2: It's wild how mad they were about desegregation. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: about because I'm actually we're going to do a video

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Speaker 2: on how the right hi check Christianity And that's kind

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Speaker 2: of that moment that it starts happening, is desegregated schools

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Speaker 2: caused a bunch of racists to go to private religious schools,

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Speaker 2: and then they started using this religious liberty thing yep.

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Speaker 2: And so it's it's just that is it's it's wild

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Speaker 2: how that's like the moment, you know, it's like it's

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Speaker 2: like the it's like the dance in Back to the Future,

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Speaker 2: Like that was the that day is like where everything

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Speaker 2: went down, and it's the same with this.

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Speaker 1: And that is what's we've done a two part of

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Speaker 1: ourselves on how Christianity got co opted from Christianity as

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Speaker 1: a political force is more tied to progressivism in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen teens and twenties. Right, it's like the labor movement

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Speaker 1: and stuff, right, and that all starts to change in

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Speaker 1: the post war period, but it's it's during the same

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Speaker 1: period where the pal Memorandum hits in the seventies that

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Speaker 1: the religious right becomes a thing, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: the same money that the guys that Powell is speaking

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Speaker 1: to are going to pump into think tanks also pumping

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Speaker 1: money into what becomes the religious right. This is all

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Speaker 1: happening at the same time. This is kind of the

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Speaker 1: other side of that story. And this is one of

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Speaker 1: those things. The success that Powell sees, the fact that

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Speaker 1: this memorandum is followed and becomes it's considered a foundational

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Speaker 1: document of neoliberalism, right, Like, that is a big part

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Speaker 1: of the privatization of everything, Right, Like, that's why you

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Speaker 1: want to take over these think tanks to make the

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Speaker 1: case for cutting government services, for cutting the idea that

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Speaker 1: there should be any kind of like shared social responsibility

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Speaker 1: in our society and turning everything into a profit driven machine. Right,

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Speaker 1: that's part of what he's suggesting. But also, like the

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Speaker 1: end of Roe v. Wade, you can tie it directly

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Speaker 1: to this memorandum because he's talking about, like we if

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Speaker 1: we're going to turn back these victories the left and

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Speaker 1: liberals have had, we have to do it through the courts.

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Speaker 1: And I really think I talk a lot about Osama

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Speaker 1: bin Laden on this show and how I think historians

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Speaker 1: when historians are writing about this one point where none

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Speaker 1: of them are angry about nine O Elove because it's

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Speaker 1: too distant, right, the way that people aren't angry about

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Speaker 1: the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand today, Right, we could just

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Speaker 1: sort of like talk about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe some are still, but yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think he should I think they should have killed

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Speaker 1: him twice. But that's my opinion.

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Speaker 2: No, it's the farther we get away from nine to eleven,

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Speaker 2: it's going to become this weird abstract and yeah, kind

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Speaker 2: of fascinating to me.

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Speaker 1: And my opinion tends to be that when we get

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Speaker 1: enough distance, historians will generally agree that Osama bin Laden

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Speaker 1: was one of the best strategic minds of the twenty

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Speaker 1: first century. He had a plan, he had a plan

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Speaker 1: for what would happen in the long term as the

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Speaker 1: result of that attack, how it would damage American power,

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Speaker 1: and it worked the way he thought it would. And

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Speaker 1: I think Powell is probably a similar mind for the

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Speaker 1: twentieth century in terms of like political strategy. He lays

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Speaker 1: out what the right is going to do from the

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventies to today, and it's worked very well for them.

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Speaker 1: With a significant demographic disadvantage, they have in fact captured

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Speaker 1: the courts and over time turned this country to the

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Speaker 1: right in a way that people in the seventies would

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Speaker 1: not have really thought possible. So, yeah, that's cool.

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Speaker 2: Yes's frog and a hot plate stuff. Yeah, where it's

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Speaker 2: like we we talked about this last last episode of

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Speaker 2: how Like when people try to say, like, you know,

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Speaker 2: Trump is gonna is going to spell the end for democracy,

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Speaker 2: that doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna happen right away, right,

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Speaker 2: It's like these things just have lasting harm that it's

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Speaker 2: gonna be really hard.

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Speaker 1: To yeah verse, yeah, it doesn't even mean he'll necessarily

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Speaker 1: win again. And I don't take that as a given

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Speaker 1: the way some people do, I certainly think it's at

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Speaker 1: least a fifty to fifty shot. But even if Biden

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Speaker 1: wins reelection, like the idea has been normalized that you

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Speaker 1: can just try to take over to the capital with

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Speaker 1: a bunch of angry goons, and that's really bad for

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Speaker 1: the future of democracy.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty bad.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not great. So Pal's memo is at first

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Speaker 1: circulated mostly among the chain of commerce, which is again

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Speaker 1: all these wealthy business owners and CEOs, right, that's where

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Speaker 1: they interface with the government, is the chamber of Commerce.

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Speaker 1: So this is a private memo, and he's basically using

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Speaker 1: a government agency to send this memo about how to

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Speaker 1: capture the courts for the right to all of these

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Speaker 1: guys and asking for their money. David Harvey, who's a

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Speaker 1: Marxist anthropologist, cites this is kind of the foundational document

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Speaker 1: in the birth of neoliberalism. It's like the neoliberal declaration

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Speaker 1: of Independence. Right, that's how some people tend to see this.

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Speaker 1: Its influence, though, is much larger than just that, and

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Speaker 1: it's much larger than I'm going to cite today. But

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Speaker 1: one of the things that absolutely did was supercharged donations

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Speaker 1: and the establishment of right wing think tanks. Wealthy conservatives

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Speaker 1: realized the power of having organizations that were like RAND

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Speaker 1: but were geared entirely towards espousing an ideology. And the

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Speaker 1: ideology they wanted these organizations to espouse was that taxes

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Speaker 1: should be low, workers should know their place, and school

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Speaker 1: should probably be segregated. Also, they should be allowed to

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Speaker 1: jail anti war protesters, right, sure, sure.

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Speaker 2: Why not? Yeah, fuck it. If we're thrown at all

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Speaker 2: on there might as well put some bonuses.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. And the opportunity to do that came when

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Speaker 1: the economy shit the bed in the nineteen seventies, quote,

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Speaker 1: A corps of politically active conservative intellectuals, most prominently Irving Crystal,

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Speaker 1: began to argue in publications like The Public Interest and

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Speaker 1: The Wall Street Journal that if business wanted market logic

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Speaker 1: to regain the initiative, it would have to create a

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Speaker 1: new class of its own scholars whose career prospects depended

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Speaker 1: on private enterprise, not government or the universities. You get

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Speaker 1: what you pay for, Crystal in effect argued, and if

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Speaker 1: businessmen want an intellectual horsepower, they would have to open

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Speaker 1: their pocketbooks. Traditionally, corporate philanthropy had been directed either towards

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Speaker 1: charity or towards independent organizations like the Ford, Rockefeller, and

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Speaker 1: Carnegie foundations. Pressured by the media and by academics to

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Speaker 1: make gestures of broad mindedness. Businessmen seem to feel that

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Speaker 1: they could gain social approval only by sharing their proceeds

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Speaker 1: with credential intermediaries would use the money to fund attacks

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Speaker 1: on capitalism. Paying to have oneself attacked was a kind

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Speaker 1: of corporate abolution. So that's that's what a big thing

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Speaker 1: Crystal is saying, And Crystal is kind of the most

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Speaker 1: influential of this first wave of like think tank guys,

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Speaker 1: is you're spending all of this money on foundations that

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Speaker 1: do actual charity, and that partly funds the work of

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Speaker 1: people who are critical of you. Why not give your

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Speaker 1: money to someone who's going to say you should have

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Speaker 1: even more power and money and work to make that real,

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Speaker 1: you know. And obviously that's a good deal for you

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Speaker 1: if you're a rich psychopath.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're going to pay people, you might as

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Speaker 2: well pay people to say you're great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's that's why we hired Garrison. It didn't work,

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Speaker 1: actually worked with terrible disaster there there's very mean.

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Speaker 2: In your place.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, correct, that I tried, but they just moved to Atlanta.

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Speaker 2: M man, damn him. You gotta get them, get.

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Speaker 1: Them back, got to get them back. Kinda fish about

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Speaker 1: new party. The work of men like Crystal was like

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Speaker 1: a refreshing, cool breeze on the faces of rich fail

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Speaker 1: sons whose daddies had been disappointed by the side the

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Speaker 1: US took in World War Two. Some of these guys

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Speaker 1: are literally the business plot guys, right. The guys were

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Speaker 1: telling Smedley Butler, what if you tried to become a dictator?

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Speaker 1: And Smedley's like, sure, let me just talk to Congress

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Speaker 1: real fast. Henry Ford the Second resigned from the board

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Speaker 1: of the Ford Foundation around this time in the seventies,

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Speaker 1: furious because it was putting out work he viewed as

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Speaker 1: anti capitalist. Other Men like Joseph Coors, you know, the

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Speaker 1: beer guy, and the inheritors of the Olin Chemical and

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Speaker 1: Smith Richardson pharmaceutical foundations started looking for places they could

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Speaker 1: pour money to generate opinions that coincided with their endlist

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Speaker 1: need for more money. This is a big part of

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Speaker 1: why the pharmaceutical industry is the way that it is,

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Speaker 1: right is that these guys start putting money in the

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Speaker 1: think tanks that say, hey, you know what would be

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Speaker 1: great for everybody's health if these guys were allowed to

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Speaker 1: jack up the price of fucking insulin, you know, to

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Speaker 1: umpteenth degree. What if we really fucking deregulate healthcare as

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Speaker 1: an industry, wouldn't that make everybody healthier?

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Speaker 2: And what we're learning now is that it's way harder

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Speaker 2: to reverse these things.

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Speaker 1: Yes stuff, yes, yes, once you get this stuff. And

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Speaker 1: that's one of the things they know is once you

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Speaker 1: get this stuff established, it's like the war on drugs. Right,

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Speaker 1: Once you have the war on drugs, anything you do

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Speaker 1: to try to fix it, people, there will still be

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Speaker 1: drug epidemics, right, Like No, like fentanyl gets into the

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Speaker 1: country and suddenly everybody who's been working very hard to

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Speaker 1: try and reform things has to deal with the fact

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Speaker 1: that people are dying of this new substance. And there's

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Speaker 1: this built in infrastructure to say, just to have more cops, man,

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Speaker 1: we just got to lock people up. That's what's going

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Speaker 1: to fix it, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, right. Because it's also it reminds me of when

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Speaker 2: we built our highways, because we consulted with car companies

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Speaker 2: for that, and so it's that thing where they get

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Speaker 2: together they decide to do this thing that's kind of irreversible,

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Speaker 2: that's like a foundational idea. Uh. And then by the

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Speaker 2: time we realize that it doesn't work, yeah, it's already there,

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Speaker 2: firmly there.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: We only realize these things over time of going like, wait,

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Speaker 2: this strategy was bad. It's resulting in bad things. And

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Speaker 2: at that point it's like, well, what are we going

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Speaker 2: to do? Uproot everything, start over.

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Speaker 1: And this can work on the good side of positive example,

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Speaker 1: this would be Obamacare, which is deeply flawed, but like

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Speaker 1: we saw, the Republicans tried to kill it and realized

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Speaker 1: in the Trump administration, we really fucking can't.

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Speaker 2: This is social security, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, social security. Libraries or you would never get libraries

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Speaker 1: to be a thing today. If it was a new concept.

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Speaker 1: People would be willing Conservatives would be willing to kill

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Speaker 1: and die to stop libraries from existing. But they're just

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Speaker 1: a thing now, you know, still under attack, but they're

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Speaker 1: a thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you try ever, try to like harass a

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Speaker 2: librarian like they can handle themselves, and they have all

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Speaker 2: those library ghosts on their side too. And because a

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Speaker 2: library is haunted, I.

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Speaker 1: Believe strongly, Dave in like ending firing everybody in the

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Speaker 1: Department of Homeland Security. But we take all of their guns,

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Speaker 1: all of their weapon and we give it to the librarians.

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Speaker 1: No training, We don't tell them how to use any

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Speaker 1: of this. That's up to them. Whatever they want to

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Speaker 1: do with all those tanks and machine guns is their

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Speaker 1: their choice.

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Speaker 2: You know what's not going to happen anymore. No one's

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Speaker 2: going to be turning in books late. I'll tell that much.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, get you're condamn right there fucking no knock

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Speaker 1: raids for overdue books.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that situation that will be handling.

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Speaker 1: So one step in the process of building this like

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Speaker 1: think tank network, like one of the things they knew

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Speaker 1: they had to do because there weren't a lot of

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Speaker 1: really prominent popular right wing media figures right who were

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Speaker 1: influential in public policy. That wasn't nearly as common as

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Speaker 1: people who would have considered themselves liberals, right, you know,

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Speaker 1: in reality, like you would say centrists or whatever. So

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Speaker 1: a big part of what they had to do here

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Speaker 1: was fine people who were liberals and even some leftists

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Speaker 1: who were influential in academia in public policy and turn

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Speaker 1: them right. Now we see this happen today. You're seeing

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Speaker 1: all of these like formerly liberal left see some of

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Speaker 1: the shit that likes the Young Turks guy has been

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Speaker 1: saying and about like crime in cities and stuff this

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Speaker 1: like weird right wing turn that a lot of guys

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Speaker 1: was Jimmy Dre that guy who used to be kind

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Speaker 1: of lefty, and then the pandemic hits and he goes

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Speaker 1: hard right because he's an anti vax weirdo. Right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is like a thing we see today and this

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Speaker 1: is really the first time it happens in an organized way.

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Speaker 1: And what they would do is they would go to

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Speaker 1: these guys who are like influential liberal academics and they

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Speaker 1: would say, and this is an actual example, iverat hey,

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Speaker 1: we're starting this think tank. We would like to hire

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Speaker 1: you on as like an expert.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: We're basically pay you to do whatever research you want

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Speaker 1: to do, and occasionally you just have to put out

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Speaker 1: some papers that are in line with the stuff that

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Speaker 1: we want put out. And in return, and this is

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Speaker 1: like in the seventies eighties, you'll get a two hundred

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Speaker 1: one thousand dollars a year's salary for life whether or

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Speaker 1: not anything gets done. We just need to be able

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Speaker 1: to use your name. You know.

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Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, that's like a billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: That's so much money back then, right, you know, you'll

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Speaker 1: have to occasionally rubber stamp some specific ideas. And that's

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Speaker 1: what for some of these guys, it literally is I'm

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Speaker 1: just like throwing my name on some shit so i

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Speaker 1: can get a paycheck. Others really take to the idea

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Speaker 1: of being more influential than they'd ever been, of having

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Speaker 1: I'm not just being people that got listened to sometimes,

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Speaker 1: but people who have this massive, hundreds of millions of

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Speaker 1: dollars in funding effort behind them, right, and they can

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Speaker 1: be the mouthpieces of it. And some of these people,

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Speaker 1: these are folks like Gene Kirkpatrick, Michael Novak, Ben Wattenberg.

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Speaker 1: These are all people who switched sides politically because of

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Speaker 1: the amount of money and clout that they saw building

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Speaker 1: in the think tank industrial complex. The founder of the

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Speaker 1: Ethics and Public Policy Center, Ernest Lefev, had even been

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Speaker 1: a conscientious subjector in World War Two. Michael Horowitz, one

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Speaker 1: of the most influential conservative theorists of this period, had

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Speaker 1: been a civil rights lawyer in Mississippi in the nineteen sixties,

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Speaker 1: and Horowitz kind of pioneers the tactic of being a

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Speaker 1: liberal intellectual and like political guy and then pivoting right

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Speaker 1: and suddenly getting very rich. You know, he's one of

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Speaker 1: like the architects of that switch.

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Speaker 2: I mean, conservatism pays very well. Oh yeah, we're not

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Speaker 2: over here. Like look in the Daily Wire. I would

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Speaker 2: love to get some fracking billionaire money, but sadly they

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Speaker 2: won't give it to me.

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Speaker 1: I will take fifty million dollars. Yeah, I'll endorse some

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Speaker 1: fucked up shit for fifty million dollars.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, yeah, I take bribes. I've said it before,

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Speaker 2: I'll say it again.

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Speaker 1: Listen, fracking billionaires. You've got me and Dave. We can

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Speaker 1: sell people on fracking. Oh Dave, you love it when

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Speaker 1: the ground light's on fire, don't you?

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Speaker 2: Oh God? Yeah? Water like when it's murky. I love

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Speaker 2: me a nice glass of murky water.

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Speaker 1: Look, the popularity of Lacroix has proven we all like

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Speaker 1: our water with a little something extra.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Gasoline makes our cars go. Gasoline in our water

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Speaker 1: probably makes us more efficial.

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Speaker 2: Makes us go. Yeah. Uh, that's some science. I think

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Speaker 2: this is science.

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Speaker 1: What you just said, this is what you could have

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Speaker 1: fracking billionaires. Come on, hit us up.

437
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 2: I'll take two hundred thousand. I don't give a shit.

438
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:25,440
Speaker 1: So two years after Goldwater's failed candidacy, an aging movie

439
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 1: star named Ronald Wilson Reagan decided to run for governor

440
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 1: of California. Now, his initial rise to power is against

441
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,160
Speaker 1: an incumbent Democrat who's fairly well liked and reasonably popular

442
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 1: prior to the election, a guy named Pat Brown. This

443
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 1: is an uphill battle, at least on paper. It doesn't

444
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 1: wind up working out that way, and a huge part

445
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:49,200
Speaker 1: of the strategy that hands Reagan a victory he bases

446
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 1: a massive chunk like kind of the centerpiece of his

447
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 1: campaign is attacking Berkeley University, right higher education in general,

448
00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 1: but specifically going to war with Berkeley. Talk about, Oh,

449
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,639
Speaker 1: they fucking hate it, and that's what we're going to

450
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 1: talk about. But you know who loves Berkeley, No one really,

451
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,199
Speaker 1: but our sponsors don't hate it. That I'm aware of.

452
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe you on that. That sounded convincing.

453
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:26,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, unless it's the Washington State Highway Patrol again. Ah,

454
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,679
Speaker 1: we're back. So we're talking about Ronnie Reagan you know,

455
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: husband of the throat goat herself and how he wins election.

456
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 1: Sophie just had a look when I said.

457
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 3: That, I did not enjoyed that description.

458
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: That's what Look, this is documented. We're not slandering. That's

459
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 1: not even history. Yeah, that's just history.

460
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 2: It'd be slander if we called Ronald the throat goat, right,

461
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 2: but that.

462
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 1: A man would have been terrible at sucking Dick.

463
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 3: I just want to give a shout out to to

464
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 3: Joni as We Yeah, yeah, who really made all the

465
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 3: decisions for that family.

466
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:10,199
Speaker 1: Yes, they're astrologer yep. So the fact that Reagan is

467
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 1: going to make the centerpiece of his campaign hating on

468
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 1: Berkeley goes over really well with the kind of rich,

469
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 1: fail sun demographic that is funding this like New Conservative movement.

470
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 1: These guys believe that they had lost to the New

471
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: Deal Democrats for a mix of reasons. One of those

472
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 1: was that Christianity was overwhelmingly aligned with progressive, pro labor

473
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: and social welfare values at the start of the century,

474
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 1: and the religious right, which is coming together in the

475
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,360
Speaker 1: same period. It's going to the first time the religious

476
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 1: right is really influential in US politics. It gets Reagan

477
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: elected right, that's coming together at this point in time.

478
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,400
Speaker 1: The other thing that they saw as losing the day

479
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: was that all of those new Deal policies had enjoyed

480
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: the support of professors and subject matter experts with fancy

481
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: titles and actual expertise. And one of the things that

482
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: was happening in that period, a lot of those experts,

483
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 1: it came from kind of the first generation of college

484
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,159
Speaker 1: graduates that weren't all super rich guys, right. It was

485
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: still mostly people who were better off, but it was

486
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 1: starting to become democratized. And by the seventies college was

487
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,479
Speaker 1: extremely democratized. Right. Some of that's as a result of,

488
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,639
Speaker 1: like you know, kind of some of the changes that

489
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 1: come in as a result of the GI Bill, but

490
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 1: like in general, a lot more particularly women and black people,

491
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 1: are graduating from college in this period, and they're seeing

492
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 1: this as like this will inevitably destroy us unless we

493
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: destroy the ability of these people to get college degrees. Right.

494
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,919
Speaker 2: Right, They had their own little club, right, that was

495
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 2: the whole thing. They love, having their own little clubs. Yeah,

496
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 2: and they could do or say whatever they wanted in

497
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 2: these little clubs. Yeah.

498
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: And what the think tank boom is is a war

499
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: on expertise, and the other half of the war on

500
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: expertise is destroying higher education, right, because that will stop

501
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,880
Speaker 1: poor people from being able to exercise agency. In Paul,

502
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 1: that's what they see, right.

503
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 2: Yes, happen I mean hearing that this is still happening today. Yes,

504
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 2: it's one of those like such an obvious red flag

505
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 2: where it's like, if you're going after education, I don't know.

506
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 2: That seems very sus right, like, h that's weird.

507
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: Yeah. And the easiest way to get middle class and

508
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 1: poor conservatives on board with this crusade was to attack

509
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 1: universities as hotbeds of anti war radicalism. Reagan understood this instinctively,

510
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,360
Speaker 1: and that's why he goes to war with Berkeley University

511
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,159
Speaker 1: during his candidacy. At that point, the school was basically

512
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 1: free for Californians. If you are a state resident, you

513
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,239
Speaker 1: basically don't pay to go to Berkeley, and this had

514
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: led to a dangerous number of poor people, particularly black

515
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: people and women, getting educations at are respected university, which

516
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: is a big part of why Berkeley is in nexus

517
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: of organizing for protests against the Vietnam War. And one

518
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 1: of the things that Reagan is going to be furious

519
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 1: at is that the president of Berkeley, a guy named

520
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 1: Clark Kerr, refused to expel student organizers. You know, the

521
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: conservatives are yelling at this guy, like you need to

522
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: kick kids out for organizing against the Vietnam War. And

523
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 1: Clark is like, why the fuck shouldn't students be allowed

524
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: to protest?

525
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 2: Why isn't it like.

526
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 1: An am about that? Right? Yeah?

527
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 2: Is this whole freedom to speak? I don't know.

528
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 1: One Berkeley professor would later summarize as a matter of

529
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 1: Reagan's honest convictions, but also as a matter of politics,

530
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: Reagan launched an assault on the university. Now, on the

531
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: campaign trail, Reagan promised to clean up the mess at Berkeley.

532
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,640
Speaker 1: He attained the approval of John mccohone, head of the CIA,

533
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 1: and Jay Edgar Hoover, head of the FBI, who held

534
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: an unprecedented joint meeting to discuss Communist influence at universities,

535
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 1: which mcohone wrote definitely required some corrective action. Hoover himself

536
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: reached out to Kerr to tell him to crack down

537
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 1: on student activities, and Kerr, you got to respect this

538
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 1: guy says no to the director of the FBI. And

539
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 1: when Kerr says, no, Hoover and McCone reach out to

540
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan and I want to I want are really

541
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 1: hammering how impressed in this is? For one thing, I

542
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: know these are both evil fed agencies. The CIA and

543
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: the FBI hate each other, like traditionally. They are fighting

544
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: it constantly.

545
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 2: They're like kits and dogs.

546
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, exact, or just two cats that don't

547
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 1: know each other's in a small apartment. Yeah, the small

548
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: apartment is like the US budget for shady shit.

549
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you ever have an FBI agent in your house,

550
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 2: they'll knock shit off your desks.

551
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: Hopefully not Dave, they will knock shit off your desks.

552
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 2: Though, they will. They love knocking shit off of desks.

553
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 2: They'll they'll be like can I come in? And you

554
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 2: open the door and then they kind of wander away,

555
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 2: and then you're like, what are you coming in? You're

556
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 2: not coming in? What's going on?

557
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: I would like to replace the FBI with cats, And

558
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: just like if one of the if one of all

559
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: cats are the FBI, And so if a cat just

560
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: walks into your house, you can't you can't make it leave.

561
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: You gotta feed it, you gotta pet it. You know,

562
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: give it whatever it wants. Badges, Yeah, little badges, just

563
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: just cats wandering around airports checking shit.

564
00:28:59,120 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

565
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 1: I think it's a good idea. Several countries already worked

566
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: that way. If you've ever been to Istanbul, that's more

567
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: or less how the city functions.

568
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 2: I love that they just have loose cats everywhere there.

569
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: So this is so the FBI and the CIA are

570
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 1: basically like, yeah, we Ronald, you are our guy, because

571
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: you are going to fire this fucking dude and crack

572
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: down on this school that we see as a major

573
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 1: threat to the United States. Yeah, it's cool, it's it's I.

574
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 2: Just can't help but to think about good old meatball

575
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 2: ron of today Ronald DeSantis. Yes, and where like people

576
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 2: very rightfully pointed out when he was like, I don't

577
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 2: like Disney's politics, therefore I am going to just bully

578
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 2: them with the government, and I'm not you know, I'm

579
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 2: not on Disney's side. Well, I guess in this case

580
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 2: I am, but I'm not a huge fan of corporations.

581
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 2: My point being that, like, aren't they the guys who

582
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 2: don't want the government doing this stuff getting involved in

583
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 2: everybody's business. I can't help but to feel like this

584
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 2: is the same situation where they're like, yes, let's get

585
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 2: really involved in people's business because we don't like what

586
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 2: they're doing, even though that's against everything we claim that

587
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 2: we're in for.

588
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: It makes it clear that, like when they're talking about

589
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: we have to we're doing this because the Communists want

590
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,479
Speaker 1: to take away freedom. They're not and I'm not an

591
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: apologist for the Soviet Union. I would not have wanted

592
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: to live under that regime either, right, but they're not

593
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: talking about freedom because they want to take away people's

594
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: freedom to protest a war that's killing millions. What they

595
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: mean by freedom is rich people being able to be

596
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: rich people. Yeah, yeah, that's that's the threat.

597
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 2: There's no there's no like extremely good sides here. It's

598
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 2: just that, Yeah, it's.

599
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: Very The students who are trying to stop the Vietnam

600
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: War are but like, yeah.

601
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 2: I mean even they were probably insufferable people, but yeah, well.

602
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: Sure, I mean they're they're at Berkeley, right, so you know,

603
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,239
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have wanted to have lunch with them, but right,

604
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: they're on the right side of this.

605
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 2: It's so easy to go after colleges because all you

606
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 2: have to do is step on a college campus. Yeah, man,

607
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 2: I hate it here. Yes, it doesn't know when I

608
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 2: was in college.

609
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're doing a Reagan Dave. We're doing it.

610
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 2: I need to do.

611
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: Everybody, go watch PCU when you finish this. You know

612
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,719
Speaker 1: that's John Favreau with John Favreau and with Jeremy Piven

613
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: playing a playing a man who's supposed to be a

614
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: college senior and clearly in his mid forties.

615
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, forty five year old Piven.

616
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 1: Beautiful, beautiful stuff. So Reagan becomes the FBI's preferred candidate.

617
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: One of Hoover's memos at the time describes him as

618
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: dedicated to the destruction of student activism. The assistant chancellor

619
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: of Berkeley at the time described Reagan's tactics this way.

620
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: Reagan took aim at the university for being irresponsible with

621
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,479
Speaker 1: failing to punish these dissident students. He said, get them

622
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: out of here, throw them out. They are spoiled, and

623
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: they don't deserve the education they're getting. They don't have

624
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: a right to take advantage of our system of education.

625
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: In a two thousand and four article for UC Berkeley News,

626
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Kahn argued that they were two main themes of

627
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: Reagan's first campaign for the governorship, quote to send the

628
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: welfare of bums back to work and to clean up

629
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: the mess at Berkeley. The latter became a Reagan mantra,

630
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 1: so that again I can't overemphasize this isn't just a

631
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: side issue he's hitting sometimes. This is like one of

632
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: the two pillars of his campaign for governor, which is

633
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: why he becomes president ultimately, is attacking Berkeley.

634
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 2: It's so dumb because it's also like just from a

635
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 2: practical sense, like I don't know, like he's running on

636
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 2: the campaign of really focusing on a single school in America,

637
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 2: and it's like, boy, I feel like there are other

638
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 2: problems to focus on here.

639
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, during the Vietnam War, maybe maybe.

640
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 2: DA There's a lot of other things you could be

641
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 2: doing one or two. It's just it's such a weird.

642
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 2: It's such a weird policy to run on and then

643
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 2: succeed with.

644
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a bummer.

645
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

646
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: So a little bit when he Reagan wins spoiler alert

647
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: for the past and Reagan immediately he leans on he

648
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 1: can't fire Kerr directly, but he's able to lean on

649
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: the university administration, basically threatening to take even more money

650
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: from the school, and they eventually fire Kerr. And this

651
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: was a tacit acknowledgment that attacking the school had been

652
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: a lynchpin of his electoral strategy. Earl Chite, dean emeritus

653
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 1: of the School of Business at Berkeley, later said one

654
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: of his great skills was to understand popular feeling. He

655
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: really tapped into the discontent people felt about what was

656
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 1: happening on the campus. I have no doubt that this

657
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 1: was a big factor in his election as governor. One

658
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: of Reagan's first acts as governor is to cut funding

659
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,719
Speaker 1: for all California public colleges. He starts going after Berkeley,

660
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 1: but he cuts funny and he tries to do it

661
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: by like ten percent across the board. The legislature doesn't

662
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: agree to go quite that hard, but he does cut

663
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: funding to every California public college. And he frames this

664
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 1: as a necessity, not a political attack. He says, we're

665
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: doing this because of a budget shortfall. John Schwarz, formerly

666
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: of The Intercept, describes how Reagan made his case to

667
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: cover the funding shortfall. Reagan suggested that California public colleges

668
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: could charge residents tuition for the first time this, he complained,

669
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: resulted in the almost hysterical charge that this would deny

670
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: educational opportunities to those of the most moderate means. This

671
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: is obviously untrue. We made it plain that tuition must

672
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: be accompanied by adequate loans to be paid back after graduation.

673
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 1: And this is where student loans come from.

674
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course Reagan.

675
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, Ronny fucking Reagan.

676
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 2: I mean, it all comes back to Reagan.

677
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: It always has, it, always fucking does.

678
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:38,439
Speaker 2: He was really really bad for the country, and that's

679
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 2: what we're now in, right, we this is the era

680
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,320
Speaker 2: of this. It's the find out to the fuck around,

681
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 2: right Yeah, where we've all been now hurting because of

682
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 2: this ship that yep, they let Reagan do. How did

683
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 2: he sell this to the public, Like, I like, I

684
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 2: get selling this to rich people, but like it's it's

685
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 2: always so weird when they like, how do you go,

686
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,760
Speaker 2: great news, we are now making your schools worse.

687
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, because he doesn't frame it that way.

688
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: First off, he frames it is like, look, we've got

689
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 1: a budget shortfall, things are contracting, everybody's got to tighten

690
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,439
Speaker 1: their belt, and hey, these kids were caught. And again,

691
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: the anti war movement is not as popular as people

692
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 1: remember it being right, right, So there's a huge amount

693
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: of people who are like, yeah, why are we paying

694
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: for these these these communist kids to go to school?

695
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 2: Right?

696
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: And He's like, they're going to pay their own way.

697
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 1: It's personal responsibility, you know, They're going to pull themselves

698
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: up by their bootstraps, right, right.

699
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 2: Because like, what does that even equate to in terms

700
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 2: of taxes? You know, like how much of a difference

701
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 2: is this going to make in your taxes to do this?

702
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 1: Taxes are even higher now, by the way.

703
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just so silly because it's like why why

704
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 2: would we like vote and be concerned about like government

705
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 2: budget stuff. It's like, we pay you to figure this out.

706
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 2: Go figure it out, you know, we want to have

707
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 2: the free schools. Keep the free damn schools.

708
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:05,359
Speaker 1: Yes, this is why.

709
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 3: You know.

710
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 1: France has a lot of problems of its own, but

711
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: their strategy of whenever they try to take away a

712
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 1: public entitlement, burning down Paris has worked several times. This

713
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: doesn't always work, but it has sometimes.

714
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 2: No, but I like how they roll, you know, I

715
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 2: like it. Or if a government person so much as

716
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 2: like farts in the wrong direction. Yeah, they're like well,

717
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 2: time to chop off some heads.

718
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 1: I guess it burned down the city. So Reagan also

719
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: proposed that Berkeley starts selling off the rare books in

720
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: its library so rich people could put them in their

721
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 1: private collections. The legislature, that's just such a cartoon villain

722
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: thing to do. The legislature doesn't approve this or the

723
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: full extent of the cuts he wanted to the UC system.

724
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: But they do a lot, and he would soon have

725
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: his chance to try these ideas out on the national

726
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 1: stage with a compliant Congress. The success of Reagan's attacks

727
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,479
Speaker 1: on California public schools inspired conservative politicians across the US.

728
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 1: Nixon decried campus revolt. Spiro Agnew, his vice president, proclaimed

729
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,399
Speaker 1: that thanks to open admissions policies, unqualified students are being

730
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,359
Speaker 1: swept into college on the wave of the new socialism.

731
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: That's all, sorry, that was all a Schwartz quote from

732
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 1: John's article in the Intercept. So reform of higher education

733
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 1: becomes a major cause for public conservative intellectuals. This is

734
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 1: again the think tank set, and they start putting out

735
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,800
Speaker 1: papers arguing that what Reagan wants to do will benefit

736
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 1: that it'll cut down the amount of money that you know,

737
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: the public has to spend, it'll be able to lower taxes,

738
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: it'll be better for students. All this jazz, right, And

739
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,760
Speaker 1: they frame this as, you know, not just cost cutting

740
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: and like making the budget make more sense, but also

741
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 1: it'll help these students because a lot of young people

742
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: are getting these useless degrees in the liberal arts. They're

743
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: getting weighed down by these educations they don't really need,

744
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 1: and if they have to pay for it, they'll be

745
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: more discriminating and they'll get more useful degrees that'll benefit

746
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 1: the economy more in the long run. That's what they're

747
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: saying in public. In private, we're a lot more open

748
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:05,240
Speaker 1: about the real reason they're doing this. Schwartz continues, quote

749
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 1: one worry that free education may be producing a positively

750
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 1: dangerous class situation by raising the expectations of working class students.

751
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 1: Another referred to college students as a parasite feeding on

752
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,240
Speaker 1: the rest of society, who exhibited a failure to understand

753
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 1: and to appreciate the crucial role played by the reward

754
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,320
Speaker 1: punishment structure of the market. The answer was to close

755
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: off the parasitic option. These are all think tank guys

756
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 1: saying that like this, this is giving poor people an

757
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 1: unreasonable expectation of progress that they might be able to

758
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 1: live good lives. And they don't understand how the market

759
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,280
Speaker 1: works because we're not making we're not making them destroy

760
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 1: their financial futures to get a college degree. Right, we

761
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 1: have to add debt to this situation, and that'll stop

762
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: them from being parasites.

763
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 2: Right, They're kind of they're kind of kicking down the

764
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 2: ladder after they already got up there. It's it's it's

765
00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:01,320
Speaker 2: ridiculous because it fundamentally misunderstands what the idea of school

766
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 2: is for, Like why society has school, which is to

767
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,800
Speaker 2: train people to exist in the society that's been built.

768
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: Right.

769
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's just very silly that you would look

770
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 2: at like people in school and go, those are parasites. Like,

771
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 2: don't get me wrong, there is you know, the academic

772
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 2: world isn't perfect. There are people who can sort of

773
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 2: drift through school.

774
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 1: I have I know a couple of people who have

775
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: done that.

776
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, oh yeah, but like that's that's like that's

777
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 2: not a justification for this. And and then also like

778
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 2: that's years of also like just schools, yeah, changing over the.

779
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: Years, A certain percentage of people who get into the

780
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: academic system, you know, especially if it's basically free, we'll

781
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: just spend their whole lives being students in various things,

782
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: and that might wind up being bad for that person,

783
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: But as a societal problem, it does not compare to

784
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 1: the scale of the problem of an entire generation burdened

785
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 1: by student loan debt they can never repay, right, they

786
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 1: will wind up paying many times the principle and like

787
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: basically be garnishing their wages for the rest of their lives,

788
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: like unable to buy a home, unable to like the

789
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 1: sheer amount of damage it does, like one is worse

790
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 1: than the other.

791
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this is the whole thing. Like, this

792
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 2: is why it's that idea of like, well, we shouldn't

793
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:24,399
Speaker 2: give to homeless people because what if one of them's

794
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 2: a liar and it's like who cares?

795
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, who gives like shit?

796
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, like yeah, that's most people loon be.

797
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 1: We have a lot of data on how just giving

798
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 1: homeless people cash works. Most of them use it to

799
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: get houses, well, you know, apartments or whatever.

800
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 2: But yeah, why are we using this fear of this

801
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 2: small percentage is or is not to do something that's Yeah,

802
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,359
Speaker 2: it's broadly good. And this feels like the same thing,

803
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 2: which is like, well, some of them will be leeches,

804
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 2: and it's like let them, let them be leeches. Isn't

805
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 2: this what a good society is is something that takes

806
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 2: care of their people unconditionally.

807
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,760
Speaker 1: It's so like you, no, you don't use this logic

808
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 1: wor else. And nobody says if you're like I should

809
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 1: exercise to get into better shape. No one is like, oh,

810
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,839
Speaker 1: but you know what, it's theoretical that I might get

811
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 1: hurt exercising, so I'm never going to move my body, right,

812
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 1: Like yeah, like you would say, well that's irrational, right right.

813
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 2: But it's the same like a hospital where it's like,

814
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 2: well some of them might be fake, faking their symptoms,

815
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 2: and it's like yeah, I mean that doesn't mean we

816
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 2: get rid of the hospital.

817
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 1: Some number of doctors will be bad at it and

818
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: kill their patients, so we shouldn't have any medical professionals.

819
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,240
Speaker 1: Just let nature take its course.

820
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't make this argument for anything else. But

821
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 2: when it comes to like talking about poor people getting things.

822
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 1: Look, one percent of people are allergic to antibiotics, so

823
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 1: let's just let everyone die of preventable infections. Yeah, it's

824
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:54,280
Speaker 1: it's frustrating, so it's silly. The National Review, a conservative

825
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 1: journal of opinion in news that largely served as a

826
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 1: vehicle for distributing the work of these think tanksuggested that

827
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: the solution to the problem of parasitic college students was

828
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: to cut public funding for colleges, which be made up

829
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,280
Speaker 1: by charging more or anything at all in some cases

830
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: for tuition. They recommended quote a system of full tuition

831
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 1: charges supplant supplemented by loans which students must pay out

832
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 1: of their future income. And this is all coming together

833
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 1: in this period. In May of nineteen sixty nine, things

834
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: came to a head. Student activists had created a people's

835
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: park on a vacant plot of land in Berkeley. Jeffrey

836
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: con writes students and activists had begun an attempt to

837
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 1: transform a vacant plot of university property into people's park.

838
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,320
Speaker 1: Attempting to head off the activists, the university engaged a

839
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,320
Speaker 1: fencing company accompanied by two hundred and fifty police to

840
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: erect a chain link fence around the land at four

841
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 1: am on May fifteenth, nineteen sixty nine. Five hours later,

842
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: a rally was called on Spool placet to protest. The

843
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 1: action resource, a current UC Berkeley reference guide for new students,

844
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: relates the story of how Reagan intervened, sending in a

845
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 1: National Guard. The rally, which drew three thousand people, soon

846
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 1: turned into a riot as the crowd moved down Telegraph

847
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 1: Avenue towards the park. That day known as Bloody Thursday.

848
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,720
Speaker 1: Three students suffered punctured lungs, another a shattered leg. Thirteen

849
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: people were hospitalized with shotgun wounds, and one police officer

850
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 1: was stabbed. James Rector, who was watching the riot from

851
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: a rooftop, was shot by police gunfire. He died four

852
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,800
Speaker 1: days later. Damn yeah, thanks Ronnie.

853
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:23,359
Speaker 2: Yeah.

854
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: And by the way, this just happened again. They just

855
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 1: cracked down violently on people's park, which they were like,

856
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 1: homeless people were like basically it had been turned into

857
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: effectively a place where they could like camp and exist,

858
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:39,800
Speaker 1: and the police just shut it down. A bunch of

859
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: protesters came up, they beat the shit out of everybody.

860
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 1: Same same story, twenty twenty four. I mean, I'd love

861
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 1: to see it.

862
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 2: Cops love a good beating of college protesters, all right, Yeah, yeah,

863
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 2: they're too young to fully know they're rights, like, you'll

864
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:55,919
Speaker 2: probably get away with it a lot of the time.

865
00:43:56,040 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: You can shoot them, sure, yeah, yeah, fire and apparently rooftop. Yeah,

866
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 1: I got the shooting at roots.

867
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't want to trivialize his death, but

868
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 2: I'm imagining that guy being like, I'm nice and safe

869
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 2: up here. Yeah, Like, ah, don't worry about me, I'm

870
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 2: on the roof. Oh my goodness. Yeah.

871
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: So the riot was great pr for Reagan because the

872
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: media pretty much cited with him and putting the blame

873
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 1: for it on the protesters. He got to do the

874
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 1: strong Man Act and call in twenty two hundred National

875
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,240
Speaker 1: Guard troops to deal with a state of emergency in Berkeley.

876
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,720
Speaker 1: This created an absurd situation where guardsmen who were Berkeley

877
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 1: students were activated to police the campus. Con cites at

878
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: least one man who was shot at and injured by

879
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,320
Speaker 1: cops during the riot and then got home to a

880
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 1: notice telling him to report for duty. More than a

881
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 1: thousand people were ultimately arrested. Reagan's war with Berkeley was

882
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 1: a blueprint for other conservative politicians, and the coalition of

883
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: right wing policy wonks and campaigners that coalesced around him

884
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 1: began to plot grander schemes, and we're going to talk

885
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: about those schemes. But first, you know who's got the

886
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: grandest scheme? Dave me. Oh, well, yes, you you do

887
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: have a plot. I'm always plotting, always scheming. And part

888
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: of Dave's plot is that you buy some of these products.

889
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 2: Absolutely, we're back.

890
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 1: So nineteen seventy Dave Reaga year runs for reelection. He

891
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 1: had become known as a charismatic speaker, the great communicator

892
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: of conservative thought to the masses, and there was no

893
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 1: issue that served him better than attacking those damn Marxists

894
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: in academia and the shiftless college students ruining America's good

895
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 1: time in Southeast Asia. In May of that year, he

896
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 1: shut down all twenty eight use campuses over protests against

897
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 1: the bombing of Cambodia. A few months later, in October,

898
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 1: his education advisor, Roger Freeman, gave a press conference, and

899
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: I'm going to quote here from an article in the Intercept.

900
00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:59,839
Speaker 1: Freeman's remarks were reported the next day in the San

901
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 1: Francisco Chronicle under the headline professor ces peril in education.

902
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: According to the Chronicle article, Freeman said, we are in

903
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 1: danger of producing an educated proletariat. That's dynamite. We have

904
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 1: to be selective on who we allow to go to college.

905
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 1: If not, Freeman continued, we will have a large number

906
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: of highly trained and unemployed people. Freeman also said, taking

907
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 1: a highly idiosyncratic perspective on the cause of fascism, that's

908
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:26,959
Speaker 1: what happened in Germany. I saw it happen.

909
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 2: It's incredible because it's it's the big you know, you

910
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 2: step back from this and it's like, okay, so we're

911
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 2: bombing people, we're doing we're doing terrible things in a war,

912
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 2: and you know, it's always kind of pretty terrible. And

913
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:43,800
Speaker 2: then our young people who we've taught you know, you know,

914
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 2: I presumably even the seventies, we taught them, you know,

915
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 2: compassion and basic morals as a kid, and then they're

916
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 2: in school and they're learning about the world and they're

917
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 2: saying like, you know, we don't like that you're doing this.

918
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 2: And you step back and you look at that, and

919
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 2: you're like, we better shut down these colleges. That's the problem.

920
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 2: It's just so funny how that's that's the conclusion that

921
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 2: they drew from where it's like, hey, stop doing this

922
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 2: terrible thing, and it's like you're right, we should find

923
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 2: a way to silence you from saying that you're so right.

924
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 2: And then it's a dystopian that it comes down to,

925
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 2: like these riots of them.

926
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: Just it's just a big part of Freeman as a

927
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 1: guy who comes out from this culture. Again he's born

928
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 1: in a monarchy, and his attitude, and this is the

929
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 1: attitude of basically all of the landed aristocracy in the

930
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: United States and in Europe, is that like no bless

931
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: oblige rite this idea that like, well, you have an

932
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 1: obligation as part of the uppercross to run society and

933
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 1: to take care of it. And you have within sort

934
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 1: of your noble cast, you have your progressives and your

935
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:55,760
Speaker 1: conservatives and your progressives who are advocating for the little people.

936
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,959
Speaker 1: But they always understand, because they come out of the aristocracy,

937
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 1: that their first is to their class and to maintaining

938
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 1: the wealth and power of their class. Of course, and

939
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 1: these these poor proletarians getting an education that can't be

940
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 1: allowed to happen because they don't have any loyalty to

941
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 1: the same class that we're in. They might just want

942
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 1: to make things better for the poor.

943
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:16,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really comes down to that doesn't.

944
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:18,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's it's pretty hideous.

945
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 2: It goes back, it goes to the whole civility thing

946
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,359
Speaker 2: where it's like, how dare you protest that way? How

947
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:27,320
Speaker 2: dare you do like, you know, like acting like the

948
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 2: protests are worse than the the actual enemy or the

949
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 2: actual people that they're harming. It's just and then of

950
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 2: course linking it to like they must all be socialists

951
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 2: or they all must be communistic because they're protesting this

952
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 2: thing that we're doing against these people. It's just it's

953
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 2: such I don't know, it's it's incredible, like I don't know, trickery.

954
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,320
Speaker 1: It's very funny to me that he's like, this is

955
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 1: what happened in Germany because like, no, it's not.

956
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 2: It is true.

957
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 1: There were a lot of highly trained and unemployed people,

958
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 1: and that contributed to the Nonazis. They weren't highly trained

959
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 1: college students. They were veteran soldiers. They were trench fighters

960
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 1: with head injuries who were really good at killing people

961
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 1: and back the Nazis because the Nazis said, you know what,

962
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:15,839
Speaker 1: the best thing is killing people, right, that's not all

963
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 1: of it. But like the Nazis did not not that

964
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 1: they had no college graduates, like Hitler wasn't an educated

965
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 1: college graduate. That's not why Hitler was powerful.

966
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:27,799
Speaker 2: You know, I mean we we sure love, we sure

967
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 2: loved pretending the Nazis were a lot of things that

968
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 2: they weren't. Right, Like, there's just so much like, well,

969
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 2: that's what the Nazis did, and it's always just like

970
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 2: very vague broad strokes of it.

971
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 1: There was certainly a chunk of the Nazis who were

972
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 1: well educated and whatnot, but like that was not the

973
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 1: center of their power, right, their early power, the street fighters,

974
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: the movements were like vets and hooligans.

975
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 2: You know, it's very funny to be like the Nazis

976
00:49:56,040 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 2: were educated. Education makes you Nazi. Yeah, it's like the

977
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 2: Nazis drink water, therefore we shouldn't drink water. Yeah, yeah,

978
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:10,319
Speaker 2: it's yeah, it's ridiculous. Yeah.

979
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:13,240
Speaker 1: So this guy Roger Freeman, who is who is saying

980
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:15,880
Speaker 1: all of this really hideous shit is again he's in

981
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 1: Austrian born in nineteen oh four. He'd fled after Hitler

982
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 1: annexed Austria and wound up serving under Eisenhower and Nixon.

983
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 1: He was also a fellow at the Hoover Institute, which

984
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:28,280
Speaker 1: was Stanford's think tank, right, and it was a pretty

985
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 1: conservative think tank. Right. This is kind of contrary to

986
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: the republican frenzy of our Marxist academics, but like the

987
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 1: Hoover Institute is pretty right wing. And that's where this guy,

988
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 1: who was in a lot of ways the architect of

989
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 1: the student loan system, this is one of Reagan's education advisors,

990
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 1: comes out of. He is a think tank guy. Right

991
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 1: University he believed was something only the wealthy should have

992
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:52,880
Speaker 1: access to, because you know, they had an understanding of

993
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 1: their obligation to maintain the status quo. Reagan becomes the

994
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: center then of a plot to co opt the energy

995
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 1: in the enthusiasm of the new right in order to

996
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 1: help the old right remake the economy in their image

997
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:08,360
Speaker 1: and destroy anything that hints at being a public benefit.

998
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 1: He is the first candidate that benefits from both the

999
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 1: newly forged religious right, which at this point has two

1000
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 1: major causes, keeping black kids out of private schools and

1001
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 1: turning back women's rights. And he's also the first think

1002
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 1: tank president.

1003
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 2: Right.

1004
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 1: Some of this stuff had started creeping in during Nixon's administration,

1005
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 1: but it's really Reagan that is the first you know

1006
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:31,240
Speaker 1: all this shit in the pal memorandum and the religious

1007
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 1: right stuff. Reagan is the first president to really benefit

1008
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 1: from all of it, you know.

1009
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's I know that Jimmy Carter of

1010
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 2: all people was like the first like Christian president, right that,

1011
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,880
Speaker 2: like really yes, put that, And so it's like he

1012
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 2: was like the practice run where they're like, Okay, well

1013
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:52,320
Speaker 2: that can work. I mean, not him, but like you know,

1014
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 2: a guy I like him, or maybe even not even

1015
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 2: a guy like him, because I'm pretty sure Reagan was

1016
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:01,839
Speaker 2: not very religious. Uh oh god no no, no, yeah,

1017
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 2: get godless, Hollywood Hollywood actor. So yeah, yeah, yeah.

1018
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: So as kind of this this think tank, you know,

1019
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,800
Speaker 1: so Reagan has his re election in nineteen seventy, nineteen

1020
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 1: eighty obviously is going to be his presidential campaign. In

1021
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 1: that period in between, you have both the religious right

1022
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 1: growing in power, and you have these think tanks really

1023
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 1: start to get to get moving, right, Like this is

1024
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 1: really when you're having a bunch of them founded in

1025
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:31,799
Speaker 1: quick secession. In nineteen seventy three, two congressional aids quit

1026
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 1: the Hill and start the Heritage Foundation. In nineteen seventy six,

1027
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:37,760
Speaker 1: a former Brookings guy starts the Ethics and Public Policy

1028
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 1: Center in nineteen seventy seven, will get the Cato Institute

1029
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 1: named after a pretty insufferable Roman by some equally insufferable Americans.

1030
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 1: And this all contributes to a nineteen eighty Ronald Reagan

1031
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 1: winning his election. And you know, one of the things

1032
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,720
Speaker 1: that had been a through line in his presidential campaign

1033
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 1: had been these constant series of attacks on this growing

1034
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:01,719
Speaker 1: class of administrators and thinkers, kind of liberal academics and

1035
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 1: think tank people who had crusted together at the upper

1036
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 1: levels of government. Right, And Reagan basically says, these guys

1037
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 1: are burdening the doers. We have too many thinkers in

1038
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:12,359
Speaker 1: there and not enough men of action.

1039
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:12,839
Speaker 2: Right.

1040
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 1: But as soon as he takes office, he's going to

1041
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,879
Speaker 1: fill the White House with nothing but think tank guys.

1042
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:20,239
Speaker 3: Right.

1043
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,839
Speaker 1: Despite like this, these complaints they'd had about how all

1044
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 1: of these people were gumming up the works of government.

1045
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:27,880
Speaker 1: And I'm going to quote from an article in the

1046
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 1: Atlantic here about that process. When plump positions started going

1047
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:34,320
Speaker 1: to them, conservatives discovered that the new class wasn't so

1048
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 1: bad after all. Norman Tour, one of the original supply siders,

1049
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:41,280
Speaker 1: supported himself through the late nineteen seventies by taking donations

1050
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 1: for his Institute for Research on the Economics of Taxation.

1051
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: While Ronald Reagan was composing his first cabinet, Turre wrote

1052
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:50,359
Speaker 1: a paper for the Heritage Foundation advocating, in the best

1053
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:53,080
Speaker 1: new class style, the creation of a new government post

1054
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 1: that of Treasury Department Under Secretary for Tax Policy, and

1055
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 1: after some assiduous circulating of the paper with resume attached,

1056
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 1: landed the job for himself. Following the change of administrations

1057
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty, some conservatives found think tanks useful vehicles

1058
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:09,840
Speaker 1: for advancing their ideas in their careers. Colin Gray, a

1059
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 1: nuclear hardliner known for a foreign policy article titled Victory

1060
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:16,040
Speaker 1: as Possible, failed to land a top position at Defense

1061
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 1: of the National Security Council. So we started the National

1062
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,240
Speaker 1: Institute for Public Policy, which produces studies on beam weapons

1063
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 1: and other Star Wars components.

1064
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 2: So this works.

1065
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 1: It can be as directly as in the case the Terrez.

1066
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 1: You start a think tank, you write papers about how

1067
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,719
Speaker 1: the government needs to have this specific position making sure

1068
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:36,240
Speaker 1: that taxes get cut, and then you get that fucking

1069
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 1: job for yourself because you sent that paper around Reagan

1070
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 1: people with your resume attached.

1071
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:42,440
Speaker 2: It's such a good grift.

1072
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:45,879
Speaker 1: It's a great grift. I kind of want to steal

1073
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 1: that one from myself in all.

1074
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:49,760
Speaker 2: Kind of I don't know. We talked about the value

1075
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:52,239
Speaker 2: of a good font. It's that thing where like I

1076
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:55,560
Speaker 2: get why this is kind of weird. I get why

1077
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 2: fly earthers exist. Yeah, I get why weird like conspirac

1078
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 2: see people or like, because to regular people, it's all

1079
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:08,280
Speaker 2: just like books, right, Yeah, it's all like most people,

1080
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 2: no one gets to see the world from space, no

1081
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:14,400
Speaker 2: one gets to experience history. We all just it's just

1082
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 2: we grew up at schools giving us books and going like,

1083
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 2: trust me, this is what it is. We've passed this

1084
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 2: down and so like it seems really easy to be

1085
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 2: able to hijack that and go like, see, we have

1086
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:30,520
Speaker 2: a study. You love studies, we have experts, and here's

1087
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:32,880
Speaker 2: a piece of paper. Here's a book, a pamphlet that

1088
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:36,760
Speaker 2: says this thing very officially, that says that I should

1089
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 2: get this job.

1090
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:41,359
Speaker 1: That is the stated goal. Is like, when we're having

1091
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:43,880
Speaker 1: arguments about what we do with taxes, should we have

1092
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 1: this public benefit? You know, should should college be free?

1093
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 1: And you know, liberals trot out these papers by the

1094
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:52,840
Speaker 1: Brooking Institute. We want to have twice as many papers

1095
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:54,839
Speaker 1: from our institutes because that's all a lot of people

1096
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 1: care about. It's like, well, that's a thicker stack of papers.

1097
00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 1: They must have more evidence.

1098
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:03,279
Speaker 2: It's ridiculous. We have on the internet more than an ever.

1099
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:06,360
Speaker 2: Like studies, the concept of a study where it's like,

1100
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:09,320
Speaker 2: there's so many studies and they say different things, and

1101
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:11,279
Speaker 2: then you actually dig into the study and you're like,

1102
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 2: this barely says this thing. Yeah, but we love it

1103
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 2: doesn't matter. It's just how many studies.

1104
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:20,840
Speaker 1: How many studies you get in this thing. Yeah. So

1105
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:24,839
Speaker 1: by the time the Reagan administration gets underway, US conservatives

1106
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:28,320
Speaker 1: have exhibited their remarkable talent for flexibility by deciding the

1107
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 1: professional thinker class is good actually and ought to be

1108
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:34,959
Speaker 1: employed telling the rest of us what to do. Every

1109
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 1: major shift in economic policy and defense policy under Reagan

1110
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:41,720
Speaker 1: was supported by an ocean of think tank publications beyond

1111
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:44,720
Speaker 1: the Powell Memo. A major intellectual touchstone of this movement

1112
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 1: was Wealth and Poverty, a book by George Gilder. Gilder

1113
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 1: was a New York child whose father died flying for

1114
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:54,359
Speaker 1: the army in the Big Dub Dub dose. He grew

1115
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:56,719
Speaker 1: up on a farm in Massachusetts and was raised in

1116
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 1: part by the Rockefeller family, which would give you an

1117
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 1: idea ask his economic state, right, David Rockefeller is his godfather.

1118
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 1: He is as blue a blood as it's possible to be.

1119
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:11,360
Speaker 1: He's too and fine and wealth and poverty. Espouses a

1120
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:14,759
Speaker 1: supply side economics philosophy that is amenable to the people

1121
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:18,920
Speaker 1: who already had fortunes. Like as godfather. This basically becomes

1122
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 1: the bible of the Reagan administration's economic policy. Gilder argues

1123
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 1: for tax cuts, but he does so in a way

1124
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 1: that is utterly novel. This is the foundation of trickle

1125
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:31,800
Speaker 1: down economics. Right, you need to cut taxes because it'll

1126
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 1: improve the economy for everybody. And I'm going to quote

1127
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 1: from the Atlantic again here, Adam Smith, he said, had

1128
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 1: it wrong. Capitalism isn't a voodoo through which many selfish

1129
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 1: acts inexplicably advance the whole. It's a magnanimous organism in

1130
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 1: which everybody wants the best for everybody else, since, after all,

1131
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:52,040
Speaker 1: one person cannot prosper selling his product unless many others

1132
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: are prosperous enough to buy. Big tax cuts, Guilder said,

1133
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 1: will trigger an outburst of altruism. Now, funny, we know

1134
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:03,040
Speaker 1: that's not true. All they do is park the money offshore,

1135
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:05,600
Speaker 1: trillions and trillions of dollars of it, enough money to

1136
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 1: solve a significant chunk of the problems we face healthcare, homelessness,

1137
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 1: to be goddamn certain, all of it's parked in. They're

1138
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 1: this is what the Panama papers field. That's why they've

1139
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 1: bombed a journalist car.

1140
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 2: It's not true, yea we I mean when was the

1141
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 2: Christmas Carol written? Like we've always known it's not true.

1142
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 2: It's so weird that they got away with saying like, yeah,

1143
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 2: just help out the rich people and they'll help everybody

1144
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 2: else out.

1145
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:34,520
Speaker 1: I think what you're getting at, Dave, because I don't

1146
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 1: think it's capitalism to like going and being able to

1147
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 1: buy stuff at the mall. That's like a market, and

1148
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 1: markets are nice. We like markets. That's why every city

1149
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: in history is founded around a market. It's nice to

1150
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 1: go pick up fresh food. It's nice to get a

1151
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:50,920
Speaker 1: to get a nice thing to wear or whatever. Like,

1152
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 1: it's not nice to have your entire society structured around

1153
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,320
Speaker 1: the fact that there's a couple of thousand dudes who

1154
00:58:57,440 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 1: own every company because they have shares of a thing

1155
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 1: in the stock market, and everyone else's life and comfort

1156
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:06,480
Speaker 1: and survivalist secondary to them always getting a return on

1157
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:07,680
Speaker 1: their investment, right.

1158
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the thing. This is, This is anti

1159
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 2: what they claim to be. It's anti free market. A

1160
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 2: lot of this stuff too, where it's like they're just

1161
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 2: we're in a situation where there's certain companies that it's

1162
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:23,440
Speaker 2: like there's no competition anymore for them, like they've just

1163
00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 2: demolished everything.

1164
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 1: No one has an issue with the idea that Steve

1165
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:30,320
Speaker 1: Wozniak and Venner of the personal computer might have a

1166
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 1: nice beach house and a fancy car, right, Yeah, nobody

1167
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 1: has an issue with the fact that Danny DeVito probably

1168
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 1: has a nice vacation home. We're all happy for Danny DeVito.

1169
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. I hope he has an island. I hope he

1170
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:42,560
Speaker 2: has his own little Danny DeVito island.

1171
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:47,240
Speaker 1: I'm not thrilled with Mark Zuckerberg hollowing out the center

1172
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 1: of a major Hawaiian island to build an apocalypse bunker

1173
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:52,440
Speaker 1: where he can recreate civilization.

1174
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:58,720
Speaker 2: It's like that. It's getting silly. Yeah, it's getting real silly. Yeah,

1175
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:04,160
Speaker 2: Just people don't need that much stuff any no, no, or.

1176
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:07,160
Speaker 1: That much control of anyway. We're all we're preaching to

1177
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 1: the choir here, and we're certainly not preaching to Guilder,

1178
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:13,560
Speaker 1: because Guilder's attitude is if we just let these people

1179
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 1: get as rich as possible and leave everything up to

1180
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 1: them by gutting our social programs, they'll take care of it.

1181
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:23,959
Speaker 1: One way or the other. It'll trickle down and it'll

1182
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:25,360
Speaker 1: we'll all get richer.

1183
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:28,120
Speaker 2: This is also based on the assumption that rich people

1184
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 2: are smart and good. Yes, And it's just very funny

1185
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 2: because this is all about them being like, we need

1186
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 2: to make colleges exclusive for them and make the world

1187
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 2: pave the way for them and give them all this

1188
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:41,040
Speaker 2: stuff and they'll be smart enough to know what to

1189
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 2: with it. And it's like, really oause it sounds like

1190
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:45,920
Speaker 2: you're putting everything on a platter for them, and they

1191
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 2: have all this generational wealth and you're ensuring a bunch

1192
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:52,400
Speaker 2: of dipshits with a lot of money and no idea

1193
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:54,120
Speaker 2: how to actually do any.

1194
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:57,360
Speaker 1: Sure does seem like that. And Guilder, the guy who

1195
01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:00,920
Speaker 1: is who puts together you know, this argument that becomes

1196
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 1: the center of Reagan's economic policy is a career think

1197
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:07,920
Speaker 1: tank guy. He was a program director for the Manhattan Institute.

1198
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 1: He was chairman of the economic portion of the Lairman Institute.

1199
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:14,120
Speaker 1: And so again he comes entirely out of this project.

1200
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 1: By these rich guys to fund the creation of an

1201
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 1: intellectual class that says what they want being said, and

1202
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 1: by framing the incredibly selfish economic policies that the elite

1203
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:28,800
Speaker 1: support as altruistic, he is able to preside over a

1204
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 1: sea change in how conservatives talk to the country. In

1205
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies. Gen Kirkpatrick has criticized Republicans for being

1206
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 1: able to quote conceive of no greater good than a

1207
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 1: balanced budget. Starting with Reagan, balanced budgets are no longer

1208
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:46,200
Speaker 1: a priority, and the deficit simply wasn't worth talking about

1209
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:50,200
Speaker 1: unless a Democrat happened to be president. Greg Easterbrook notes

1210
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:52,760
Speaker 1: in his History of Conservative think tanks that the Heritage

1211
01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 1: Foundation didn't even use the word debt in its mandate

1212
01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 1: for leadership until page two hundred and nineteen. In the

1213
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 1: mid nineteen the Ethics and Policy Center, another think tank,

1214
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 1: started holding conferences on how market mechanisms could benefit the

1215
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 1: poor quote not once were welfare queens or ghetto cadillacs,

1216
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 1: the sort of small minded crochets that would have dominated

1217
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:17,520
Speaker 1: a similar Conservative conference a decade ago. Even mentioned conservatism,

1218
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:21,919
Speaker 1: by acquiring a positive vision, had become warmer. A huge

1219
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 1: amount of this strategy, that kind of the lynchpin of

1220
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:29,040
Speaker 1: it working, hinges on journalists and particularly the way lazy

1221
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 1: journalists meet their deadlines. The way legacy publications tend to

1222
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:36,000
Speaker 1: work is that when you're discussing a debate over public policy,

1223
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:37,800
Speaker 1: you want to be able to present quotes from both

1224
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:41,520
Speaker 1: sides of the debate. This is called being unbiased. Powell

1225
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 1: and his fellow ideologues knew that, since most journalists are lazy,

1226
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:47,000
Speaker 1: if you made it very easy for them to get

1227
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:49,640
Speaker 1: quotes from you by sending them piles of information whenever

1228
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:52,440
Speaker 1: they asked for a question, they would reward you by

1229
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:56,640
Speaker 1: giving your ideas more sympathy in their coverage. The Brookings Institute,

1230
01:02:56,720 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 1: which tended to do rigorous work, charged journalists who wanted

1231
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 1: to access their studies. None of these right wing think

1232
01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 1: tanks charge. They also write in a way that's more

1233
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:09,520
Speaker 1: accessible to the layman. Since they're not actually saying anything

1234
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:12,560
Speaker 1: with any evidence, they're able to like throw into entertaining

1235
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:15,440
Speaker 1: prose by guys like William F. Buckley. Right, this is

1236
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 1: a big part of why this works.

1237
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:21,440
Speaker 2: Have you read the da Vinci Code, Robert No The

1238
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:25,520
Speaker 2: book The di Vinci Code is practically written in screenplay format,

1239
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 2: and it's just reminding me of that. Where they're making it.

1240
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:30,840
Speaker 2: They're basically like, you read the da Vinci Code and

1241
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:33,280
Speaker 2: you're like, he wanted this to be a movie. Yeah,

1242
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:35,360
Speaker 2: and he made it as easy as possible for it

1243
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:38,160
Speaker 2: to be a movie. And that's what you're describing here,

1244
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:43,280
Speaker 2: which is like science papers and studies, they are difficult,

1245
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:46,680
Speaker 2: they're very Having worked on some more news and going

1246
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 2: through them, it's like sometimes they feel like they're purposefully

1247
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 2: worded to be hard to understand. Yeah, And it's almost

1248
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:57,000
Speaker 2: like a gatekeeping It's like when you do your texts,

1249
01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 2: you realize it's kind of a gatekeeping process. Yeah, it

1250
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:04,240
Speaker 2: makes sense that this would be a really important step because,

1251
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:09,720
Speaker 2: like you said, journalisms, journalists are lazy expected. I think

1252
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:11,880
Speaker 2: the nicer way to put it is they're expected to

1253
01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:15,680
Speaker 2: cover everything, and that means they are expected to be

1254
01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:21,920
Speaker 2: like kind of experts and everything to understand everything, and

1255
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:24,840
Speaker 2: so they will glom On. If you go like here, yeah,

1256
01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:28,080
Speaker 2: ik it easy, Here's a really easy way to explain

1257
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:28,600
Speaker 2: this thing.

1258
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:31,720
Speaker 1: Or here's a column by one of our fellows on

1259
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 1: this issue. You know, you can just publish this and

1260
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:36,400
Speaker 1: you'll have something to put in your little newspaper. The

1261
01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:40,840
Speaker 1: American Enterprise Institute or AEI, was perhaps the most successful

1262
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:43,400
Speaker 1: of the bunch. It was founded in nineteen forty three

1263
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:46,960
Speaker 1: by Lewis Brown, a wealthy industrial magnate. He had been

1264
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:50,640
Speaker 1: the bagman for the president of Montgomery Ward T. F. Mercel,

1265
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:53,480
Speaker 1: and during the end of the nineteen twenties, a firm

1266
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:56,880
Speaker 1: called John's Manville discovered the profit making potential of an

1267
01:04:56,920 --> 01:05:01,320
Speaker 1: incredible fire retardant substance called asbestos, and they hired Tf

1268
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:04,240
Speaker 1: to be their chairman. He brought Brown, the founder of

1269
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:08,000
Speaker 1: the AEI, and then he dropped dead suddenly, almost immediately,

1270
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:11,280
Speaker 1: which made Brown president of the s Bestos Company at

1271
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:14,640
Speaker 1: age thirty five. He becomes the s The guy who

1272
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:17,680
Speaker 1: founds like the most influential think tank of the Reagan era,

1273
01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:21,120
Speaker 1: was previously the asbestos king of the United States.

1274
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:23,640
Speaker 2: He's got the whole world in his problem.

1275
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:26,120
Speaker 1: He share it does and he's given it all cancer.

1276
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:30,919
Speaker 1: He is the president of the s Bestos Institute, which

1277
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:33,360
Speaker 1: is the sort of think tank digit dedicated to s

1278
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:36,800
Speaker 1: bestos working. Great.

1279
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:40,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, you love to see it out there sitting around,

1280
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:41,880
Speaker 2: just like Sniffin' pile.

1281
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 1: These people are all such ghouls because he's the the

1282
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:47,880
Speaker 1: AEI founder, is the s bestos guy, the author of

1283
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:50,600
Speaker 1: the Powell Memorandum, which lays out the strategy for all

1284
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:54,680
Speaker 1: this is the fucking Tobacco Institute lawyer, Like, these people

1285
01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:55,880
Speaker 1: have such money.

1286
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 2: They should get they should make they should get some asbestos.

1287
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:03,080
Speaker 2: Roll it up in a cigarette they used to smoke it. Yeah, Yeah,

1288
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:04,800
Speaker 2: that's that's the good stuff, you.

1289
01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:07,000
Speaker 1: Know, And I bet it hit like, Oh man, I

1290
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:09,440
Speaker 1: would take one. I would try an asbestos cigarette.

1291
01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:13,240
Speaker 2: Dad got him right. It's like human meat, you'd like.

1292
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:15,360
Speaker 2: You're like, well, I wouldn't seek it out, but if

1293
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:18,480
Speaker 2: it's handed to me, I'm gonna have to try it, obviously. Yeah.

1294
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:21,440
Speaker 1: I ate what was basically a fish stuffed with human meat,

1295
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 1: and it was pretty tasty. Day.

1296
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:25,600
Speaker 2: Yeah that's good. I got admit, I don't like fish,

1297
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:27,440
Speaker 2: but I'd probably just pick off the fish.

1298
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:29,440
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, just just eat the man.

1299
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:30,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1300
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:33,360
Speaker 1: Of course. So while he ran the company, uh, the

1301
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:37,840
Speaker 1: asbestos company. It became obvious that asbestos was causing asbestosis

1302
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 1: among workers who made it. This is inflammation and scarring

1303
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:43,680
Speaker 1: off the lungs due to inhaling asbestos fibers, and it

1304
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:47,400
Speaker 1: leads to fun things like mesothelioma and lung cancer. It

1305
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:52,760
Speaker 1: became this motherfucker Brown's crusade to pump out disinformation about asbestosis,

1306
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 1: to maximize the amount of time that they could put

1307
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:57,920
Speaker 1: asbestos in everything before they got stopped from doing that.

1308
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:00,680
Speaker 1: And his goal for this was it was the same

1309
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:03,160
Speaker 1: thing that people the tobacco industry would later do. It's

1310
01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:04,840
Speaker 1: the same thing the oil and gas industry has done

1311
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:08,640
Speaker 1: with climate change. Confuse the issue until everyone's dead, right,

1312
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:10,560
Speaker 1: so you can keep making money off of it.

1313
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:13,400
Speaker 2: I don't I don't believe in hell, But if this

1314
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:15,720
Speaker 2: guy like showed up in hell, I feel like he

1315
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:18,320
Speaker 2: wouldn't have to ask, Like, he wouldn't be like, what

1316
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:19,520
Speaker 2: the hell? What did I do?

1317
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:20,439
Speaker 1: Yes?

1318
01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:23,400
Speaker 2: This scance? Yeah, this is about right.

1319
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:27,720
Speaker 1: Yeah. So when one of his company's contractors, who is

1320
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:30,720
Speaker 1: actually like doing the manufacturing of the asbestos from this

1321
01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:35,360
Speaker 1: company called Unarco, they started this company like starts identifying

1322
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:38,760
Speaker 1: employees who are like getting medical tests through their company

1323
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:42,959
Speaker 1: health care and showing signs of asbestosis. Unarco like sends

1324
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:46,120
Speaker 1: them letters saying like, hey, you've got the disease asbestos

1325
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:49,200
Speaker 1: gives you. And Brown is livid about this, and he

1326
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:52,480
Speaker 1: basically like tries to get them to stop telling employees

1327
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:56,280
Speaker 1: that they have asbestosis when they get sick. One Unarco

1328
01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 1: employee would later testify in a federal investigation on their

1329
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:02,240
Speaker 1: never forget. I turned to mister Brown. One of the

1330
01:08:02,280 --> 01:08:05,120
Speaker 1: Browns made this crack that Anarco managers were a bunch

1331
01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:08,600
Speaker 1: of fools for notifying employees who had aspestosis, And I said,

1332
01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:11,600
Speaker 1: mister Brown, do you mean to tell me that you

1333
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:14,200
Speaker 1: would let them work until they dropped? He said, yes,

1334
01:08:14,360 --> 01:08:15,800
Speaker 1: we save a lot of money that way.

1335
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:20,120
Speaker 2: Yep. Again, it's it's it's looking at the problem like

1336
01:08:20,280 --> 01:08:22,200
Speaker 2: being like, Okay, so the problem is what we're making

1337
01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:25,120
Speaker 2: is killing all our employees, and we have to tell them,

1338
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:27,439
Speaker 2: and then someone being like, you know what we should do,

1339
01:08:28,360 --> 01:08:29,200
Speaker 2: just don't tell them.

1340
01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:29,680
Speaker 1: It's just not.

1341
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:33,479
Speaker 2: Problem is solved. Yeah, it's like a fucking it's like

1342
01:08:33,560 --> 01:08:36,360
Speaker 2: something they do and always Sonny like it's it's it's

1343
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:40,280
Speaker 2: just a the dirt bag bit. Yeah, through and through,

1344
01:08:40,479 --> 01:08:41,440
Speaker 2: it's incredible.

1345
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:44,960
Speaker 1: It's so good. Now, despite being a wealthy ghoul with

1346
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:48,560
Speaker 1: a body count to rival most warlords, Brown was unfulfilled.

1347
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:51,320
Speaker 1: He saw what his fellow rich guy, Robert Brookings, had

1348
01:08:51,360 --> 01:08:54,160
Speaker 1: done with the Brookings Institute, which had become an intellectual

1349
01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:57,680
Speaker 1: powerhouse that was widely respected. Brown wanted that kind of

1350
01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:00,599
Speaker 1: respect for himself, and that's why he founds the AI

1351
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 1: in nineteen forty three, and that's where we get the

1352
01:09:03,040 --> 01:09:06,680
Speaker 1: American Enterprise Institute Now. It was stymied at first by

1353
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:09,880
Speaker 1: the fact that Brown didn't believe in anything beyond having

1354
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:12,760
Speaker 1: more money and was really incapable of analyzing the world

1355
01:09:12,840 --> 01:09:15,439
Speaker 1: in a lens beyond this. So it wasn't until nineteen

1356
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:18,519
Speaker 1: fifty four, when a guy named William Burrudi took over,

1357
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:22,920
Speaker 1: that the AEI turned into something worth talking about. Berrudi's

1358
01:09:22,960 --> 01:09:25,439
Speaker 1: parents were Lebanese immigrants, and he was a Greek Catholic

1359
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:27,600
Speaker 1: who served in the Navy during World War Two and

1360
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:30,400
Speaker 1: then worked for the Chamber of Commerce. He was Barry

1361
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:33,960
Speaker 1: Goldwater's main advisor in nineteen sixty four and a close

1362
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:36,320
Speaker 1: friend to Dick Nixon, a man who did not have

1363
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:40,479
Speaker 1: any close friends. He restructured the American Enterprise Institute to

1364
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:43,240
Speaker 1: the copy Brookings and started hiring fellows to put out

1365
01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:45,880
Speaker 1: work that would make the case for supply side conservative

1366
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:49,920
Speaker 1: economic policies. Burrudi's goal was to reach the mainstream, and

1367
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:53,920
Speaker 1: as a result, they started hiring famous people in popular writers,

1368
01:09:54,280 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 1: people like Jeane Kirkpatrick, Gerald Ford, and Philip habeeb It

1369
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:02,040
Speaker 1: strove to entertain as well as to inform, and its

1370
01:10:02,080 --> 01:10:05,240
Speaker 1: fellows wrote articles with titles like Curse of the Mummy's

1371
01:10:05,320 --> 01:10:09,519
Speaker 1: Tomb and Dictators and Double Standards. That last one by

1372
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:13,000
Speaker 1: Jeane Kirkpatrick mocked Jimmy Carter for failing to support the

1373
01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 1: Shah of Iran and Anastasio Simosa, the dictator of Nicaragua.

1374
01:10:17,439 --> 01:10:21,800
Speaker 1: Kirkpatrick argued that basically, you know, obviously communist regimes are bad,

1375
01:10:22,160 --> 01:10:25,920
Speaker 1: but traditional autocrats are okay, right, because they stop the

1376
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:29,840
Speaker 1: communists from getting into power. Quote. Traditional autocrats do not

1377
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:33,320
Speaker 1: disturb the habitual rhythms of work in leisure, habitual places

1378
01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:37,000
Speaker 1: of residents, habitual patterns of family and personal relations. Because

1379
01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:40,080
Speaker 1: the miseries of traditional life are familiar, they are bearable

1380
01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:43,320
Speaker 1: to ordinary people who growing up in the society learn

1381
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:47,320
Speaker 1: to cope. Revolutionary communist regimes claim jurisdiction over the whole

1382
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:50,040
Speaker 1: life of society and make demands for change that so

1383
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:53,760
Speaker 1: violate internalized values and habits that inhabitants flee by the

1384
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:56,720
Speaker 1: tens of thousands. And that what Kirkpatrick is saying here

1385
01:10:56,760 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 1: is that like, well, communists might cause a problem that

1386
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:04,639
Speaker 1: makes people flee the country, but normal dictators are miserable

1387
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:07,080
Speaker 1: in a way that people feel like they can't escape.

1388
01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:10,439
Speaker 1: So that's what we the United States should encourage, right.

1389
01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:13,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I guess he's not wrong. It's it's hard,

1390
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:18,960
Speaker 2: it's hard. It's hard to push for like change, for

1391
01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:23,520
Speaker 2: fundamental change. We were talking about this before with the infrastructure,

1392
01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:27,760
Speaker 2: with the things that how they are like people are

1393
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:30,120
Speaker 2: going to resist anything where you're like, we have to

1394
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:34,120
Speaker 2: we have to change these things in a really meaningful

1395
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:36,920
Speaker 2: or deep way that's going to affect you. So, yeah,

1396
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:40,200
Speaker 2: I guess he's not wrong that well, dictator.

1397
01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:43,360
Speaker 1: He isn't that these dictatorships are going to cause huge

1398
01:11:43,439 --> 01:11:46,320
Speaker 1: numbers of people to flee the country because they kill

1399
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:47,080
Speaker 1: lots of people.

1400
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:50,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's good.

1401
01:11:50,439 --> 01:11:53,519
Speaker 1: Problem you know, it's it's this is part of why

1402
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:56,320
Speaker 1: like this article. You know, the thing it's arguing is

1403
01:11:56,360 --> 01:12:00,440
Speaker 1: that the US should encourage democracy, but only slow, gradual demidocracy,

1404
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:04,560
Speaker 1: And if a dictatorship faces an uprising, or if a

1405
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:09,160
Speaker 1: democracy elects a left wing leader, we should murder them,

1406
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:13,920
Speaker 1: right like, because that's dangerous, right, that's too likely to

1407
01:12:14,040 --> 01:12:16,680
Speaker 1: make people flee the country. So we have to you know,

1408
01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:20,040
Speaker 1: dictatorships we can work with, but anyone who tries to

1409
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:23,759
Speaker 1: improve the country in a progressive direction, the United States

1410
01:12:23,800 --> 01:12:25,679
Speaker 1: has kind of a responsibility to kill.

1411
01:12:26,200 --> 01:12:27,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, how dare they? Yeah?

1412
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:32,679
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan loves this fucking article. He thinks that Gene

1413
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:35,960
Speaker 1: makes a brilliant argument, and he directly this article is

1414
01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:39,120
Speaker 1: directly credited with her getting appointed to be US Ambassador

1415
01:12:39,240 --> 01:12:42,040
Speaker 1: to the U Win and her broader argument helps create

1416
01:12:42,080 --> 01:12:45,280
Speaker 1: the Reagan administration's policy in Latin America, which is why

1417
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:48,880
Speaker 1: we start sending weapons to the contrast. This is this

1418
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:53,720
Speaker 1: is like why the Reagan administration so assiduously embraces the

1419
01:12:53,800 --> 01:12:56,519
Speaker 1: policy of sending arms to any dictator who promises to

1420
01:12:56,600 --> 01:12:59,360
Speaker 1: use them on leftists, right like this This is kind

1421
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:03,000
Speaker 1: of a direct result of this think tank, you know, ecosystem,

1422
01:13:03,080 --> 01:13:05,880
Speaker 1: it really helps. Maybe they would have done it without that, right,

1423
01:13:05,960 --> 01:13:07,920
Speaker 1: because that's what these kind of people always want to do.

1424
01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:12,080
Speaker 1: But Kirkpatrick's article kind of provides the intellectual scaffolding that

1425
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:13,720
Speaker 1: makes it kind of respectable.

1426
01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:17,360
Speaker 2: Right, right, they're enabling them. Yes, that's all we talked about,

1427
01:13:17,479 --> 01:13:19,439
Speaker 2: like the idea of a friend who's like, yeah, you

1428
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:22,479
Speaker 2: can have one more drink. It's fine. It's that they're

1429
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:25,439
Speaker 2: they're looking for people to say, like, what you're doing

1430
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:29,479
Speaker 2: is actually very good. Yeah, the thing you were gonna

1431
01:13:29,560 --> 01:13:33,160
Speaker 2: do anyway that benefits you directly. Oh yeah, that turns

1432
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:33,840
Speaker 2: out to be the right.

1433
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:35,760
Speaker 1: It's actually good for everybody.

1434
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:36,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it is.

1435
01:13:37,040 --> 01:13:40,200
Speaker 1: It's maddening to admit, but pretty undeniable. That AEI is

1436
01:13:40,240 --> 01:13:44,559
Speaker 1: what makes conservatism quote intellectually respectable. As one Reagan White

1437
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:48,519
Speaker 1: House official told the Atlantics Greg Easterbrook, quote without AEI,

1438
01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:50,639
Speaker 1: Reagan never would have been elected.

1439
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:51,600
Speaker 2: And again that's a.

1440
01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:55,160
Speaker 1: Member of the Reagan White House. Right. This think tank

1441
01:13:55,280 --> 01:13:57,800
Speaker 1: created by the Asbestos.

1442
01:13:57,120 --> 01:14:01,040
Speaker 2: Baron that's so bleak that they're so this.

1443
01:14:01,439 --> 01:14:05,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that the Asbestos think tank arguing dictatorships are

1444
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:09,559
Speaker 1: fine is a lynchpin of Reagan getting into power.

1445
01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:12,840
Speaker 2: It's basically I'm sort of saying, like, we know that

1446
01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:17,479
Speaker 2: we don't have everybody's best interest in mind. Yeah, we really,

1447
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:21,719
Speaker 2: we know that we don't care about the poor even

1448
01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:25,439
Speaker 2: like middle class. We see them as nothing. But this

1449
01:14:25,680 --> 01:14:29,920
Speaker 2: is making it seem like we have a viable like

1450
01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:31,799
Speaker 2: thing to offer everything.

1451
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:37,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, another major thing that the think tank industrial

1452
01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:40,360
Speaker 1: complex is able to do for the Reagan administration is

1453
01:14:40,479 --> 01:14:45,759
Speaker 1: help launder his ideas about space based anti nuclear laser weapons.

1454
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:45,960
Speaker 2: Right.

1455
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:49,479
Speaker 1: This is the so called star Wars program. Now, Yeah,

1456
01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:52,840
Speaker 1: experts not being paid by think tanks. Was like, yeah,

1457
01:14:52,880 --> 01:14:55,040
Speaker 1: maybe someday this will be a thing, but like, we

1458
01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:57,680
Speaker 1: just can't do it right now. It's insanely expensive and

1459
01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:01,080
Speaker 1: likely it might a lot of this might just be impossible. Right,

1460
01:15:02,360 --> 01:15:05,439
Speaker 1: But a strong counter argument emerged, backed by a variety

1461
01:15:05,479 --> 01:15:08,600
Speaker 1: of right wing defense focused think tanks. The goal of

1462
01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:11,839
Speaker 1: this Reagan program, officially known as the Strategic Defense Initiative

1463
01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:15,559
Speaker 1: or SDI, was to, in Reagan's words, render nuclear weapons

1464
01:15:15,680 --> 01:15:20,000
Speaker 1: impotent and obsolete. Now, this was considered a dangerous goal

1465
01:15:20,080 --> 01:15:23,200
Speaker 1: because nuclear deterrence is largely what stopped the US and

1466
01:15:23,240 --> 01:15:28,320
Speaker 1: the USSR from like directly throwing hands too much. Ballistic

1467
01:15:28,439 --> 01:15:31,439
Speaker 1: missile defenses eventually started costing the US more than four

1468
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:34,120
Speaker 1: billion dollars a year, which made them the most expensive

1469
01:15:34,160 --> 01:15:37,200
Speaker 1: weapons program in the Pentagon budget. As the Institute for

1470
01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:40,960
Speaker 1: Policy Studies, ironically itself a think tank, eventually acknowledged in

1471
01:15:41,080 --> 01:15:44,400
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine, the overall program has been described as

1472
01:15:44,479 --> 01:15:46,840
Speaker 1: high risk and a rush to failure by a number

1473
01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:50,599
Speaker 1: of respected missile defense experts. The Pentagon's Director of Operational

1474
01:15:50,640 --> 01:15:53,760
Speaker 1: Testing and Evaluation released his annual report in February two

1475
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:57,280
Speaker 1: thousand and pointed out that the aggressive schedule established for

1476
01:15:57,320 --> 01:16:01,160
Speaker 1: the NMD program presents a major challenge. The NMD program

1477
01:16:01,200 --> 01:16:02,920
Speaker 1: will have to compress the work of ten to twelve

1478
01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:06,120
Speaker 1: years in eight or less years. This pattern has historically

1479
01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:09,400
Speaker 1: resulted in a negative effect on virtually every troubled DoD

1480
01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:13,120
Speaker 1: development program. A panel headed by the former Chief of

1481
01:16:13,160 --> 01:16:15,600
Speaker 1: Staff of the Air Force, General Larry Welch, released a

1482
01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:19,000
Speaker 1: report last November harshly critical of the program. The Welsh

1483
01:16:19,080 --> 01:16:21,280
Speaker 1: report argued that the failures of the program were not

1484
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:24,479
Speaker 1: the result of random malfunctions, but an indication of systemic

1485
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:27,640
Speaker 1: flaws and design planning and management, stating that instead of

1486
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:31,040
Speaker 1: unusual clarity, there is a usual fragmentation and confusion about

1487
01:16:31,040 --> 01:16:34,680
Speaker 1: authority and responsibility. And that's because this was never a

1488
01:16:34,840 --> 01:16:38,439
Speaker 1: plan to actually build an effective missile defense system. It

1489
01:16:38,640 --> 01:16:40,920
Speaker 1: was like, number one, a way to shovel a lot

1490
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:44,800
Speaker 1: of money into defense contractors, and number two a thing

1491
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:47,840
Speaker 1: for Reagan to promise that would make people feel safer. Right,

1492
01:16:48,040 --> 01:16:50,240
Speaker 1: We're going to have these laser defenses that will render

1493
01:16:50,479 --> 01:16:52,160
Speaker 1: us immune to nukes. You know.

1494
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:55,200
Speaker 2: It's like you duck and cover, right, It's like, yeah,

1495
01:16:55,640 --> 01:16:56,200
Speaker 2: it'll be fine.

1496
01:16:56,439 --> 01:16:58,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll get it. We'll get a lockdown, we'll get

1497
01:16:58,360 --> 01:17:00,720
Speaker 1: a lockdown. Don't worry. I mean, once they.

1498
01:17:00,760 --> 01:17:03,200
Speaker 2: Learn it doesn't work, what are they going to do? Complain?

1499
01:17:03,680 --> 01:17:05,040
Speaker 2: They'll be ash.

1500
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:09,559
Speaker 1: It's the thing, nuclear defenses. If they fail, not.

1501
01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:13,840
Speaker 2: Your problem, exactly, Y's win win. Now.

1502
01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:17,960
Speaker 1: I find it personally fascinating how few actually different sounding

1503
01:17:18,080 --> 01:17:20,559
Speaker 1: names there are for these think tanks. I just quoted

1504
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:23,200
Speaker 1: the Institute for Policy Studies, and the think tank that

1505
01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:27,240
Speaker 1: largely backed the Strategic Defense initiative was the National Institute

1506
01:17:27,280 --> 01:17:30,040
Speaker 1: for Public Policy. What was said and the actual rigor

1507
01:17:30,160 --> 01:17:33,600
Speaker 1: behind the conclusions in the papers didn't matter, volume was

1508
01:17:33,640 --> 01:17:35,400
Speaker 1: what mattered. This is something you were getting at a

1509
01:17:35,439 --> 01:17:37,639
Speaker 1: bit ago, right, you just have to have more paper

1510
01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:38,479
Speaker 1: than the other guy.

1511
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:40,839
Speaker 2: And by this science, yeah, more official.

1512
01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:45,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this really simple, shallow metric is what causes

1513
01:17:45,080 --> 01:17:48,919
Speaker 1: conservatism to advance by leaps and bounds from the eighties

1514
01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:51,800
Speaker 1: up to the yearly two thousands. And there are some

1515
01:17:52,200 --> 01:17:54,280
Speaker 1: some of these think tank guys will even admit this.

1516
01:17:54,720 --> 01:17:58,519
Speaker 1: Michael Horowitz of the Heritage Foundation Total Reporter quote, Historically,

1517
01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:01,360
Speaker 1: conservatives in the United States have come across as racists

1518
01:18:01,439 --> 01:18:03,800
Speaker 1: and know nothings. It was essential to create a moral

1519
01:18:03,840 --> 01:18:06,960
Speaker 1: and intellectual basis for conservative beliefs that had its own

1520
01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:12,080
Speaker 1: vision and wasn't just a reaction against liberalism. And I

1521
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:15,080
Speaker 1: do that's fucked up that it worked. I am a

1522
01:18:15,120 --> 01:18:18,840
Speaker 1: little hopeful that like they've gone back to just being

1523
01:18:18,920 --> 01:18:22,960
Speaker 1: a reaction. That might suggest that they're kind of out

1524
01:18:23,000 --> 01:18:24,920
Speaker 1: of ideas. And I wonder if that's part of why

1525
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:28,040
Speaker 1: the demographics are turning so starkly against them. I guess

1526
01:18:28,080 --> 01:18:30,120
Speaker 1: we'll see in the next ten years we sure.

1527
01:18:30,200 --> 01:18:33,680
Speaker 2: Well. Yeah, it's it's just interesting because there there I

1528
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:36,840
Speaker 2: think there is a pattern that I've seen now of

1529
01:18:37,800 --> 01:18:40,920
Speaker 2: them sort of wanting to do back the things that

1530
01:18:41,720 --> 01:18:45,120
Speaker 2: the left quote unquote like does to them, this idea

1531
01:18:45,160 --> 01:18:47,160
Speaker 2: of like when Biden is in power, they're like, well,

1532
01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:49,720
Speaker 2: we'll do an impeachment. And it's like it's like a

1533
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:53,360
Speaker 2: kid who learns new words and then uses them improperly

1534
01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:56,720
Speaker 2: against their parents, where it's like, yeah, but we're we

1535
01:18:57,120 --> 01:18:59,559
Speaker 2: you know, Trump was being in peace for a reason.

1536
01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:02,280
Speaker 1: You try to throughout the country right now, they're like.

1537
01:19:02,320 --> 01:19:05,320
Speaker 2: Well, you get an impeachment or like I remember Tim

1538
01:19:05,400 --> 01:19:10,439
Speaker 2: Poole using started learning learned the Friends death cult and

1539
01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:12,880
Speaker 2: it's like, no, we were saying death cult because you

1540
01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:15,120
Speaker 2: guys were like because the right was acting like a

1541
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:18,720
Speaker 2: death cult around the face mass and pandemic, like it

1542
01:19:18,840 --> 01:19:21,599
Speaker 2: was in this context. And what you're what you're sort

1543
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:23,640
Speaker 2: of indicating here is that idea of like, well the

1544
01:19:23,800 --> 01:19:26,759
Speaker 2: liberals they had all this fancy education stuff and studies,

1545
01:19:27,160 --> 01:19:30,519
Speaker 2: we need our own. Yeah, it doesn't matter if it's real.

1546
01:19:31,080 --> 01:19:34,559
Speaker 2: It's like if for example, the Daily Wires started making

1547
01:19:35,160 --> 01:19:36,800
Speaker 2: uh content, started.

1548
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:39,599
Speaker 1: Making stuff and movies yeah, and being like, well.

1549
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:43,080
Speaker 2: We need ours, but it's so hollow because it comes

1550
01:19:43,160 --> 01:19:44,639
Speaker 2: from a reactionary place.

1551
01:19:44,960 --> 01:19:48,360
Speaker 1: Exactly. They are reactionaries. And that's fundamentally what that means.

1552
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:49,960
Speaker 1: There's nothing inside these people.

1553
01:19:50,200 --> 01:19:50,320
Speaker 2: Right.

1554
01:19:50,439 --> 01:19:52,800
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about regular voting people who are just

1555
01:19:52,880 --> 01:19:56,240
Speaker 1: more considered or get trapped by this ideology. I'm talking

1556
01:19:56,240 --> 01:19:57,280
Speaker 1: about the ideologues.

1557
01:19:57,400 --> 01:19:57,519
Speaker 2: Right.

1558
01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:00,240
Speaker 1: All they really have is a desire to be rich

1559
01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:03,280
Speaker 1: and powerful. Everything they're doing is just trying to figure

1560
01:20:03,280 --> 01:20:05,200
Speaker 1: out how to further that end. But they don't believe

1561
01:20:05,439 --> 01:20:06,600
Speaker 1: in things beyond.

1562
01:20:06,320 --> 01:20:09,519
Speaker 2: That, right, and the idea to politicize everything where a

1563
01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:11,200
Speaker 2: lot of this comes from. We're like, well, the left

1564
01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:13,360
Speaker 2: have their studies, and it's like, no, they aren't the

1565
01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:15,920
Speaker 2: left studies, they're just studies.

1566
01:20:16,240 --> 01:20:18,400
Speaker 1: And the studies that they stay, yeah, you don't like.

1567
01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:21,000
Speaker 2: The well, we have our own, and it's like that.

1568
01:20:21,120 --> 01:20:24,000
Speaker 2: It's that framing of like, oh, it's left versus right,

1569
01:20:24,080 --> 01:20:27,719
Speaker 2: and it's like, no, it's you versus reality. It really

1570
01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:30,280
Speaker 2: is for at least a lot of this. That isn't

1571
01:20:30,320 --> 01:20:32,240
Speaker 2: to say that people on the left doone also have

1572
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:36,439
Speaker 2: their problems and and will overpoliticize things. But when it

1573
01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:39,040
Speaker 2: comes to these studies and stuff where it's like, oh,

1574
01:20:39,439 --> 01:20:43,000
Speaker 2: we need a counter thing about the asbestos, and this is.

1575
01:20:43,000 --> 01:20:46,559
Speaker 1: Why they insentially just land On, like let's just break reality, right,

1576
01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:48,360
Speaker 1: Like that's the that's where they go.

1577
01:20:49,120 --> 01:20:52,200
Speaker 2: And I think the again, the problem with this grift

1578
01:20:53,640 --> 01:20:56,360
Speaker 2: not for them, the problem for us, the people being grifted,

1579
01:20:56,840 --> 01:20:59,240
Speaker 2: is that it like asbestos is a good example where

1580
01:20:59,240 --> 01:21:01,840
Speaker 2: it's like, well time, you need time, and by the

1581
01:21:01,960 --> 01:21:05,120
Speaker 2: time you figure out this thing is wrong, the damage

1582
01:21:05,240 --> 01:21:09,000
Speaker 2: was done. You lead pipes or or or trickle down

1583
01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:12,479
Speaker 2: economics by the time we figure out, like, hey, this

1584
01:21:12,680 --> 01:21:15,639
Speaker 2: was dumb for a lot of this stuff, like lead

1585
01:21:15,680 --> 01:21:17,519
Speaker 2: pipes is a good analogy for it because it's like

1586
01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:19,320
Speaker 2: you look at that and you go, well, we have

1587
01:21:19,400 --> 01:21:21,920
Speaker 2: to tear out all these goddamn pipes. That's gonna take

1588
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:24,320
Speaker 2: so much time. And it's sort of the same with

1589
01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:27,519
Speaker 2: the stuff that they're planting here is it's like we

1590
01:21:27,640 --> 01:21:32,639
Speaker 2: can't just undo this stuff. It's embedded deep.

1591
01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:34,120
Speaker 1: It's the center.

1592
01:21:34,439 --> 01:21:34,639
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1593
01:21:35,160 --> 01:21:40,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, cool stuff, cool stuff, Yeah, yeah, it's it's good stuff.

1594
01:21:40,760 --> 01:21:43,080
Speaker 2: You can put sunglasses on it. It's so cool.

1595
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:47,000
Speaker 1: We've been talking about like Gene Kapatrick, Michael Horowitz, you know, Crystal,

1596
01:21:47,160 --> 01:21:50,000
Speaker 1: like these big names in the think tank writing, you know,

1597
01:21:50,120 --> 01:21:53,559
Speaker 1: and these guys, these are people who are like popular

1598
01:21:53,680 --> 01:21:55,559
Speaker 1: enough that they are bylines in the period of time

1599
01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:58,680
Speaker 1: when magazines sold could sell magazines, right, And that's a

1600
01:21:58,720 --> 01:22:00,759
Speaker 1: big part of like getting some of these famous thinkers.

1601
01:22:00,760 --> 01:22:03,479
Speaker 1: Getting Gerald Ford writing columns and stuff is a thing

1602
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:06,960
Speaker 1: that will can help launder your ideas because people are

1603
01:22:06,960 --> 01:22:10,240
Speaker 1: already famous. It'll get eyeballs right for the less famous

1604
01:22:10,400 --> 01:22:12,680
Speaker 1: grunts at the think tanks actually putting together a lot

1605
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:15,960
Speaker 1: of these papers, doing the background work. The ultimate goal

1606
01:22:16,080 --> 01:22:18,519
Speaker 1: of a career working in these think tanks is to

1607
01:22:18,640 --> 01:22:23,120
Speaker 1: earn yourself a coveted presidential appointment. Lawrence Korb, a DoD

1608
01:22:23,240 --> 01:22:27,360
Speaker 1: employee turned think tanker turned Raytheon executive, describe the focus

1609
01:22:27,439 --> 01:22:31,479
Speaker 1: on presidential employment among think tank employees as obsessive because

1610
01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:34,479
Speaker 1: that's how you get rich, right. Think tankers also made

1611
01:22:34,479 --> 01:22:38,200
Speaker 1: attractive options for new administrations because the logistical burdens involved

1612
01:22:38,240 --> 01:22:41,080
Speaker 1: in bringing them on were basically non existent. All you

1613
01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:43,480
Speaker 1: have to do to move from AI to the administration

1614
01:22:43,640 --> 01:22:44,639
Speaker 1: is walk across the street.

1615
01:22:44,720 --> 01:22:45,040
Speaker 2: He says.

1616
01:22:45,320 --> 01:22:47,160
Speaker 1: You don't have to move your family to DC because

1617
01:22:47,160 --> 01:22:48,760
Speaker 1: you're already there. You don't have to give up a

1618
01:22:48,800 --> 01:22:50,720
Speaker 1: good job you might not get back because the think

1619
01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:52,920
Speaker 1: tank will always take you back. You don't have to

1620
01:22:52,960 --> 01:22:55,280
Speaker 1: put your assets into some kind of complicated trust. If

1621
01:22:55,320 --> 01:22:58,000
Speaker 1: your background is academics, you don't have any assets, and

1622
01:22:58,120 --> 01:23:00,479
Speaker 1: a business manner lawyer coming into government usually has to

1623
01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:03,479
Speaker 1: make a financial sacrifice to someone from academia. On the

1624
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:06,080
Speaker 1: other hand, sixty thousand dollars, the typical pay for a

1625
01:23:06,160 --> 01:23:09,479
Speaker 1: high level appointee is a raise. So what he's saying

1626
01:23:09,520 --> 01:23:11,240
Speaker 1: there is like and again, this is a guy who

1627
01:23:11,320 --> 01:23:14,160
Speaker 1: starts out working for think tanks, gets a presidential appointment,

1628
01:23:14,280 --> 01:23:19,360
Speaker 1: becomes a Raytheon executive. Right, you can if you're an academic,

1629
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:22,320
Speaker 1: if you agree to go to the dark side, you

1630
01:23:22,439 --> 01:23:25,439
Speaker 1: can make an okay living at a think tank, make

1631
01:23:25,520 --> 01:23:27,720
Speaker 1: a decent living in politics, and then when you're out

1632
01:23:27,720 --> 01:23:29,920
Speaker 1: of politics, you get to be an executive for Raytheon

1633
01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:32,439
Speaker 1: where you get rich. You know, it's a path to

1634
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:34,680
Speaker 1: wealth for people who otherwise wouldn't have had it. And

1635
01:23:34,760 --> 01:23:37,320
Speaker 1: that's part of the promise. If you make the argument

1636
01:23:37,640 --> 01:23:39,960
Speaker 1: that we can't change anything that would lead to a

1637
01:23:40,080 --> 01:23:44,000
Speaker 1: reduction or end to our landed wealthy aristocracy to this

1638
01:23:44,160 --> 01:23:47,160
Speaker 1: oligarch class, then you'll get to become a little bitty,

1639
01:23:47,200 --> 01:23:50,360
Speaker 1: petty oligarch. Right, that's the promise the think tank makes

1640
01:23:50,439 --> 01:23:53,880
Speaker 1: the people who work there. You know, during the height

1641
01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:56,439
Speaker 1: of its influence, more than half of AEI's funding came

1642
01:23:56,479 --> 01:23:59,519
Speaker 1: directly from donations from corporations who defrayed their own tax

1643
01:23:59,600 --> 01:24:02,160
Speaker 1: burden by paying people who influenced the government to lower

1644
01:24:02,240 --> 01:24:05,719
Speaker 1: their taxes even further. Sometimes this hurt their bottom line.

1645
01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:09,160
Speaker 1: Easterbrook noted in nineteen eighty six that quote an advocate

1646
01:24:09,200 --> 01:24:11,800
Speaker 1: of relaxed anti trust laws. AEI notes in its current

1647
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:14,519
Speaker 1: annual report that the waf of corporate mergers led to

1648
01:24:14,600 --> 01:24:17,080
Speaker 1: a reduction of more than one hundred thousand dollars in

1649
01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:20,320
Speaker 1: its support last year because several friendly companies were gobbled

1650
01:24:20,360 --> 01:24:23,800
Speaker 1: out of existence. But you know, the wealthy men who

1651
01:24:23,840 --> 01:24:25,960
Speaker 1: spend their money and the money of their corporations on

1652
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:28,720
Speaker 1: these think tanks always remember in the end to keep

1653
01:24:28,800 --> 01:24:30,800
Speaker 1: them topped off right, at least as long as they

1654
01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:33,040
Speaker 1: need them. We'll see if they finally win. I don't

1655
01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:35,080
Speaker 1: think these think tanks will keep getting funded to the

1656
01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:38,200
Speaker 1: extent that they have been, but they were for quite

1657
01:24:38,280 --> 01:24:41,040
Speaker 1: some time. Really, up through the Bush years, this system

1658
01:24:41,280 --> 01:24:45,240
Speaker 1: kind of dominated a lot of the ideological conversation in

1659
01:24:45,320 --> 01:24:48,840
Speaker 1: this country. It was kind of dethroned in the Trump years,

1660
01:24:48,960 --> 01:24:51,400
Speaker 1: not totally. These they still have a decent amount of influence.

1661
01:24:51,760 --> 01:24:54,679
Speaker 2: But because yeah, I can see Trump, I mean, maybe

1662
01:24:54,680 --> 01:24:56,720
Speaker 2: you'll tell you you're probably gonna say, yeah, I can

1663
01:24:56,800 --> 01:24:58,960
Speaker 2: see Trump as the kind of jerk who does not

1664
01:24:59,160 --> 01:25:03,080
Speaker 2: listen to think tanks. No, And honestly, that's probably one

1665
01:25:03,160 --> 01:25:06,640
Speaker 2: of the good things, one of the few good things. Yeah.

1666
01:25:07,120 --> 01:25:09,479
Speaker 1: Well, and it's it's also that like Trump is kind

1667
01:25:09,479 --> 01:25:12,479
Speaker 1: of new right. We don't, we use different terms for

1668
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:14,680
Speaker 1: it now, but in like the late nineteen eighties that

1669
01:25:14,760 --> 01:25:17,960
Speaker 1: we're talking about, these the people that we just like,

1670
01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:20,519
Speaker 1: we've come to just call fascists as the new right,

1671
01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:24,760
Speaker 1: and these are like these very reactionary, very aggressive, not

1672
01:25:25,120 --> 01:25:31,760
Speaker 1: traditional sort of like polite, respectable conservatives. And these people,

1673
01:25:32,040 --> 01:25:34,519
Speaker 1: from the beginning of their time on the political stage

1674
01:25:34,840 --> 01:25:37,400
Speaker 1: have not liked the think tank set right in part

1675
01:25:37,479 --> 01:25:40,400
Speaker 1: because these think tanks make a big deal of how

1676
01:25:40,479 --> 01:25:43,200
Speaker 1: influential they are and they're not you know, this this

1677
01:25:43,400 --> 01:25:47,240
Speaker 1: evangelical this kind of alliance of evangelical right wingers, Christian

1678
01:25:47,320 --> 01:25:51,040
Speaker 1: nationalist culture warriors. Right, they're important, but they kind of

1679
01:25:51,120 --> 01:25:53,880
Speaker 1: represent a threat to the new right type guys, and

1680
01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:57,920
Speaker 1: so you know, it's possible their hour has started to pass.

1681
01:25:58,040 --> 01:26:00,479
Speaker 1: We'll see if things shift back in the other direction.

1682
01:26:00,680 --> 01:26:03,920
Speaker 1: But they did their bit right, They they shifted the

1683
01:26:04,000 --> 01:26:06,960
Speaker 1: culture successfully. They got us to the point that we're at.

1684
01:26:07,479 --> 01:26:09,760
Speaker 2: There'll always be people like them because I think when

1685
01:26:09,800 --> 01:26:12,639
Speaker 2: it comes down to what these things takes are are

1686
01:26:13,160 --> 01:26:18,800
Speaker 2: their middle management when when Trump they are like when

1687
01:26:18,840 --> 01:26:21,640
Speaker 2: Trump talked about the concept of a deep state, he

1688
01:26:21,840 --> 01:26:24,160
Speaker 2: was wrong about what it was, but I don't think

1689
01:26:24,200 --> 01:26:26,439
Speaker 2: he's wrong that there is a form of that, and

1690
01:26:26,600 --> 01:26:31,519
Speaker 2: that is people whose entire careers are maintaining their careers,

1691
01:26:32,040 --> 01:26:35,400
Speaker 2: where like they just they they just you know, it's

1692
01:26:36,720 --> 01:26:39,360
Speaker 2: like I was reading about like we did we did

1693
01:26:39,439 --> 01:26:43,040
Speaker 2: a video about like how elections are their own economies.

1694
01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:46,479
Speaker 2: There are people whose entire jobs or a better example

1695
01:26:46,600 --> 01:26:49,120
Speaker 2: is taxes right, H and R block these companies that

1696
01:26:49,280 --> 01:26:53,360
Speaker 2: only exist for this system that we've created that to

1697
01:26:53,520 --> 01:26:57,599
Speaker 2: keep them around, and they lobby specifically to keep taxes

1698
01:26:57,640 --> 01:26:59,960
Speaker 2: the way they are so they can continue to exist.

1699
01:27:00,720 --> 01:27:04,240
Speaker 2: And I can see someone like Trump sort of looking

1700
01:27:04,360 --> 01:27:07,960
Speaker 2: at people like that and seeing like, oh, these are

1701
01:27:08,120 --> 01:27:12,479
Speaker 2: these are people we can cut or rejecting them. I

1702
01:27:12,520 --> 01:27:15,680
Speaker 2: don't think he's doing it out of the goodness of

1703
01:27:15,760 --> 01:27:18,559
Speaker 2: his heart. But I can see him doing it for sure.

1704
01:27:18,960 --> 01:27:21,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it might weaken them in the long run,

1705
01:27:21,800 --> 01:27:25,120
Speaker 1: strategically in the same way that like Trump, he's done

1706
01:27:25,120 --> 01:27:27,559
Speaker 1: a lot of damage. He's also like right now spending

1707
01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:30,400
Speaker 1: all of the rnc's money on his legal bills, right

1708
01:27:30,479 --> 01:27:32,640
Speaker 1: which might hurt them, you know, not just in the

1709
01:27:32,680 --> 01:27:36,120
Speaker 1: presidential election, but across the board. You know, I guess

1710
01:27:36,200 --> 01:27:39,200
Speaker 1: we'll see. It's this kind of like the risk of

1711
01:27:39,360 --> 01:27:41,960
Speaker 1: letting a single dude get that much power as he

1712
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:44,559
Speaker 1: can really just these these well laid plans, this twenty

1713
01:27:44,680 --> 01:27:48,040
Speaker 1: thirty year plan to take over the judiciary fifty years,

1714
01:27:48,120 --> 01:27:48,960
Speaker 1: all this kind of shit.

1715
01:27:50,520 --> 01:27:54,160
Speaker 2: You know, it's he's he's a threat to the establishment,

1716
01:27:54,320 --> 01:27:56,880
Speaker 2: just not the way he advertises he's a threat to

1717
01:27:56,920 --> 01:28:00,759
Speaker 2: the establishment, the way letting a drunk they are into

1718
01:28:00,920 --> 01:28:04,639
Speaker 2: a Walmart is a threat to the establishment, where it's like, yeah,

1719
01:28:04,720 --> 01:28:07,680
Speaker 2: you're just in, You're just an asshole, Like you're just

1720
01:28:07,800 --> 01:28:11,120
Speaker 2: a liability for them, right, Like you'll just they can't

1721
01:28:11,200 --> 01:28:13,439
Speaker 2: tell him anything as they'll just say it out loud

1722
01:28:13,560 --> 01:28:16,240
Speaker 2: or he'll fuck it up. Like that's how he's actually

1723
01:28:16,320 --> 01:28:19,400
Speaker 2: a threat to them. Which is like they're their little

1724
01:28:19,479 --> 01:28:22,760
Speaker 2: slow playing that they're doing. They don't like it.

1725
01:28:24,479 --> 01:28:31,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, well well Dave, that's it. Where ah, where do

1726
01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:33,000
Speaker 1: you Where do you go? Where do you live?

1727
01:28:33,640 --> 01:28:35,760
Speaker 2: Oh? I live right here. We're doing this over zoom,

1728
01:28:35,920 --> 01:28:38,040
Speaker 2: so you know, I don't have I don't have anywhere

1729
01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:40,400
Speaker 2: to go. I'm just gonna I'm just gonna take off

1730
01:28:40,439 --> 01:28:42,800
Speaker 2: my pants when this is done. You know, are you

1731
01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:44,040
Speaker 2: talking about plugs.

1732
01:28:43,760 --> 01:28:48,040
Speaker 1: Or like, yeah, yeah, your sluggables all that good stuff.

1733
01:28:48,280 --> 01:28:51,479
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean you mentioned it. Gamefully Unemployed go

1734
01:28:51,560 --> 01:28:54,720
Speaker 2: to patreon dot com, slash gamefully Unemployed, or better yet,

1735
01:28:54,880 --> 01:28:58,040
Speaker 2: just google gamefully unemployed GA M E f U l

1736
01:28:58,080 --> 01:29:02,559
Speaker 2: O Y unemployed. Uh I uh. It's a podcast network

1737
01:29:02,600 --> 01:29:05,240
Speaker 2: I do it tom Ryman Ryman where we mostly talk

1738
01:29:05,280 --> 01:29:08,880
Speaker 2: about movies, not politics, you know, movies X files. And

1739
01:29:08,960 --> 01:29:10,760
Speaker 2: then I am the head writer for some More News

1740
01:29:11,400 --> 01:29:13,840
Speaker 2: and just you know, google some more news if you

1741
01:29:14,000 --> 01:29:17,000
Speaker 2: like more politics. Uh, that's what you can get. You

1742
01:29:17,080 --> 01:29:18,600
Speaker 2: can get that. It's right there in the name some

1743
01:29:18,720 --> 01:29:20,639
Speaker 2: more News. Hell check that out.

1744
01:29:21,520 --> 01:29:24,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, check that out. Check out some more News,

1745
01:29:24,600 --> 01:29:30,200
Speaker 1: check out gamefully Unemployed, and check out the New Roadhouse.

1746
01:29:30,280 --> 01:29:31,320
Speaker 2: Check out that new Roadhouse.

1747
01:29:31,600 --> 01:29:33,840
Speaker 1: Check out the New Roadhouse. Or if you don't want

1748
01:29:33,840 --> 01:29:36,400
Speaker 1: to see the New Roadhouse, just kick the ship out

1749
01:29:36,439 --> 01:29:39,880
Speaker 1: of somebody. Just find a stranger and just really start

1750
01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:41,120
Speaker 1: kicking the son of a bitch.

1751
01:29:41,320 --> 01:29:43,360
Speaker 2: Get in a fight.

1752
01:29:43,880 --> 01:29:46,720
Speaker 1: It's always good to get into it. There's no consequences

1753
01:29:46,800 --> 01:29:52,240
Speaker 1: to getting into a fight. Fight animals. Sure, yeah, fight yourself,

1754
01:29:52,479 --> 01:29:55,400
Speaker 1: fighting yourself. You know, like that fight club guy in

1755
01:29:55,479 --> 01:29:55,960
Speaker 1: that movie.

1756
01:29:56,240 --> 01:29:58,800
Speaker 2: Do a fight club, a club club. We should do

1757
01:29:58,800 --> 01:29:59,280
Speaker 2: a fight club.

1758
01:29:59,479 --> 01:30:01,240
Speaker 1: Let's do a Dave and I are going to go

1759
01:30:01,320 --> 01:30:03,200
Speaker 1: do a fight club. The rest of you.

1760
01:30:04,000 --> 01:30:06,200
Speaker 2: Credit card companies, right, that's what we're talking about.

1761
01:30:07,160 --> 01:30:13,559
Speaker 1: We're gonna have to bleep that we're just joking. Credit

1762
01:30:13,640 --> 01:30:17,080
Speaker 1: card companies. You can let us into your building. Okay,

1763
01:30:17,520 --> 01:30:17,960
Speaker 1: it's over.

1764
01:30:21,880 --> 01:30:24,559
Speaker 3: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1765
01:30:24,920 --> 01:30:28,160
Speaker 3: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia

1766
01:30:28,360 --> 01:30:31,559
Speaker 3: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1767
01:30:31,680 --> 01:30:34,000
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.