1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 2: Hello and Welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson 4 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:19,119 Speaker 2: and I'm Holly Frye. A couple of octobers ago, I 5 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 2: put together an installment of six impossible episodes that was 6 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 2: all about ghost stories. And it was specifically listener requests 7 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 2: for ghost stories that were pretty well known in a 8 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 2: local area but just might not have a lot of 9 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 2: name recognition in other places. And as I was going 10 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 2: through the listener request to pull all of that together, 11 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 2: I also found a lot of requests that were about 12 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 2: ghost towns, so I saved those for later, and that 13 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 2: is today. For the sake of expectations. When I think 14 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 2: of the word ghost town, I usually imagine a place 15 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 2: that was a town, the town was abandoned, and the 16 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 2: abandoned town and all of its buildings are still standing. 17 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 2: That was true of some of the places that we're 18 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,399 Speaker 2: talking about today, but some of them, as of this 19 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 2: moment here in the year twenty twenty five, like, they 20 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 2: don't really have a lot of structures, so the town 21 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,320 Speaker 2: itself is now gone, but it is a town that 22 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 2: was completely abandoned in the past. 23 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,320 Speaker 1: And The first town we're talking about is Body, California, 24 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: which was requested by listener Corina. Body is a couple 25 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 1: hundred miles east southeast of Sacramento or about one hundred 26 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: miles roughly south of Lake Tahoe. It's very close to 27 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: the Nevada border. It's in the mountains at an elevation 28 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 1: of more than eight thousand feet, and it's probably the 29 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,680 Speaker 1: best preserved ghost town in California, and today it's known 30 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: as Body State Historic Park. 31 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 2: In eighteen fifty nine, a man named ws Body or 32 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 2: Body found gold in the region and stake to claim. 33 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 2: Body died in a blizzard the fallowing winter, and afterward 34 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 2: the Body Mining District was named in his honor. At first, 35 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,359 Speaker 2: this district really only attracted a few prospectors. There were 36 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 2: other lucrative mines in the Southwest that were already established, 37 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 2: some of them were not quite as remote as Body was. 38 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,239 Speaker 2: But in eighteen seventy seven, a collapse at Bunker Hill 39 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 2: Mine in Body revealed a huge vein of gold, and 40 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 2: today this is known as one of California's biggest gold strikes. 41 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 2: That gold strike brought a lot of new people to Body. 42 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: This area is the ancestral home of multiple bands of 43 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: Northern Piute, and when newcomers flooded the area after this 44 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: gold strike, they forced the Pyute off their land. We 45 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 1: talk a lot more about the Northern Paiute during this 46 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 1: period in our two parter on Sarah Winnemucca from November 47 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty four. Although Winnemucca and her band were 48 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: from about two hundred miles north of Body, the impact 49 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: on the Pyute also went beyond the loss of land, 50 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: with their access to food disrupted as forests were cut 51 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: down for lumber and firewood, and cattle were introduced to 52 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: graze on the area's grasslands. 53 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 2: Body followed the arc of a typical boom town. It 54 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 2: saw a lot of new people and a ton of 55 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 2: new buildings, and many of them were very hastily built. 56 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,959 Speaker 2: It also developed a wild West reputation for danger and lawlessness, 57 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 2: and at its peak there were more than sixty saloons 58 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 2: and dance halls there for a population of about eighty 59 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 2: five hundred people. Like many of the nineteenth centuries gold 60 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 2: rush towns, body shops and services were largely provided by 61 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 2: Chinese immigrants who had come to the United States for 62 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 2: some kind of work, many of them working on the 63 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 2: trans Continental Railroad before its completion in eighteen sixty nine, 64 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 2: so Body also had its own Chinatown. But just four 65 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 2: years after the gold rush started in Body, the gold 66 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 2: started to run out. Mining companies and the businesses supporting 67 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 2: them started going bankrupt, and people started leaving. While there 68 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 2: was still mining going on, everything was at a much 69 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 2: smaller scale. A fire struck the town in eighteen ninety two, 70 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 2: and then another fire in nineteen thirty two. By the 71 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 2: time mining officially ended in nineteen forty two, only about 72 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 2: ten percent of the roughly two thousand structures that had 73 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 2: been built in the town were still standing, and its 74 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 2: population was about a quarter of its peak. People continued 75 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 2: to leave until it was basically empty. Twenty years after 76 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 2: mining operations ended. Body was designated as a National Historic 77 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 2: Site and a State Historic Park in nineteen sixty six. 78 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,359 Speaker 2: It was added to the National Register of Historic Places. 79 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 2: When an open pit gold mine was proposed to be 80 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 2: built nearby in the nineteen eighties, people lobbied for the 81 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 2: Body Protection Act, which was passed in nineteen ninety four. Today, 82 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 2: the buildings in Body are preserved in the state they 83 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 2: were in when they were abandoned. This includes products still 84 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 2: on the shelves at stores, household goods and furnishings in 85 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,799 Speaker 2: the homes, and equipment still in some of the shops 86 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 2: and mining facilities. A lot of the upholstery is moldering 87 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 2: and wallpaper is peeling from the walls. One hotel is 88 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,239 Speaker 2: precariously leaning and has been propped up with a large 89 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 2: beam wedged into its side. Slowly resting car bodies and 90 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,599 Speaker 2: trailers are dotted around the town. Some of the buildings 91 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 2: are essentially in ruins and they'll stay that way. The 92 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 2: park's website describes this all as being preserved in a 93 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 2: state of quote arrested decay. Unlike a lot of parks, 94 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 2: including some other historic parks, there aren't modern buildings or 95 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 2: facilities that have been added into the town to accommodate visitors, 96 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 2: although there is a parking lot, a picnic and a 97 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 2: restroom with flush toilets on the outskirts of the town 98 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 2: if you need to use the restroom. While in the 99 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 2: town itself there are outhouses. The last three miles that 100 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 2: a person needs to travel to get to the site 101 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 2: are on a pretty rough dirt road, and while the 102 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 2: park is open year round. Getting there in the winter 103 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 2: can be treacherous to impossible because of all the snow. 104 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: Unsurprisingly, people have been taking objects from body as souvenirs 105 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: since before it officially became a park, but the entire 106 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 1: park is essentially one big museum, so people really should 107 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: not be taking things. Some years ago, a park ranger 108 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 1: tried to deter these thefts by starting a rumor that 109 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: a curse would strike anyone who took anything out of 110 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: the town. Although staff seem to have stopped telling people that, 111 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: the park still gets letters from visitors who took things, 112 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: sometimes packaged with their Pilford items, detailing all of the 113 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 1: harm that befell them Because of it's it's a display 114 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: of these letters in the museum. And while that's kind 115 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: of a fun story, according to a twenty eighteen piece 116 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: from KQED, since all these items are stolen, when the 117 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: park gets them back, they have to report it. 118 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, they have to fill out like theft paperwork for 119 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 2: the you know, random rocks and trinkets that people have 120 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 2: taken and then believe caused them to be cursed and 121 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 2: suffer various misfortunes. Next, we have Old Kahaba, Alabama, which 122 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 2: is Old Kahaba Archaeological Park today. This was requested by 123 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 2: listener Ryan. This isn't the confluence of the Cahaba and 124 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 2: Alabama Rivers. It's about eight miles southwest of Selma, Alabama, 125 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 2: and it has been through multiple waves of settlement and change. 126 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: From about the ninth to the seventeenth centuries, much of 127 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: what is now the southeastern United States was home to 128 00:07:55,520 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: Mississippian peoples. This was not one unified indigenous tribe. The 129 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: term Mississippian culture is used to describe a whole array 130 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: of indigenous societies that had some commonalities in their cultures 131 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: and ways of life during this period. Today's descendants of 132 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: the Mississippian peoples in what's now Alabama include the Muscogee, Creek, Cherokee, Choctaw, 133 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: and Chickasaw nations, among others. Sometime near the end of 134 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: the Mississippian period, people settled in the area that later 135 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: became Old Cahaba. 136 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:34,439 Speaker 2: They built a large earthen mound with a semicircular village 137 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:38,200 Speaker 2: that was surrounded by a palisade and a moat. Archaeological 138 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 2: research at the site suggests that the people living in 139 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 2: this village had connections with other Mississippian peoples all over 140 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 2: the region, including as far south as the Gulf of Mexico, 141 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:52,199 Speaker 2: and that it was probably a center of culture and commerce. 142 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 2: There is some speculation that this settlement may have been 143 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 2: the town known as Mobila, which was destroyed by Hernando 144 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 2: desi Zo in fifteen forty. While that is not completely certain, 145 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 2: it does seem like the settlement was no longer inhabited 146 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 2: by the end of the seventeenth century. 147 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: Jumping ahead a little, the United States went to war 148 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,959 Speaker 1: with the Muscogee Nation and their allies in the early 149 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: nineteenth century, and the US obtained most of what would 150 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: become central Alabama under the Treaty of Fort Jackson that 151 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 1: ended the war in eighteen fourteen. Three years later, white 152 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: surveyors arrived in the area and found the mound and 153 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: the moat. Then, in eighteen nineteen, Alabama's first governor, William 154 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: Wyatt Bibb, created a plan for the construction of Alabama's 155 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: first capital at the site. He wanted to build the 156 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,839 Speaker 1: capitol building directly on top of the mound, but after 157 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: his death in eighteen twenty, it wound up being built 158 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,839 Speaker 1: on an adjacent parcel. The rest of The capital city 159 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: was planned out in a grid that was inspired by 160 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: the city of Philadelphia. 161 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 2: Kahama only served as the capitol of Alabama for a 162 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 2: few years. There had been controversy over this choice of location, 163 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 2: and its initial approval expired in eighteen twenty five. Its 164 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 2: position on the rivers had meant that it had grown 165 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 2: and thrived thanks to easy access by steamboat, but the 166 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 2: town had also experienced seasonal flooding and disease outbreaks, including 167 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 2: malaria outbreaks. The late Governor Bibb had also been one 168 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 2: of the biggest advocates of locating the capital in Cahaba, 169 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 2: and nobody really took up that fight after he died. 170 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 2: On February first of eighteen twenty six, the legislature passed 171 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 2: a bill moving the capital from Cahaba to Tuscaloosa, and 172 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 2: then eventually the capital moved again to today's location of Montgomery. 173 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: Caba wasn't abandoned right away, though it continued to serve 174 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: as the county seat of Dallas County. The region was 175 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: also still home to fertile agricultural land and rivers for 176 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: shipping and transportation, and Dallas County became one of the 177 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: wealthiest counties in the United States, with that wealth being 178 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: built through the use of enslaved laborers and including the 179 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: value of the enslaved people themselves. 180 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 2: But then during the US Civil War, the Confederate government 181 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 2: seized the railroad that had recently been completed to Cahaba, 182 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 2: and they pulled up the rails and used them to 183 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 2: extend a different railroad line. Railroads were replacing steamboats by 184 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 2: this point, so the loss of the railroad was a 185 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 2: huge blow. Most of Cahaba's white populations started moving away. 186 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 2: After the Civil War, the population of Cahaba was predominantly black, 187 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 2: and it became a center for advocacy and organizing work 188 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 2: by black activists. Residents of nearby Selma, which had become 189 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 2: the county seat after a flood in eighteen sixty five, 190 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 2: started calling Cahaba the quote Mecca of the Radical Republican Party. 191 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 2: That was a nickname that was intended to be insulting. 192 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 2: This community was a lot smaller and a lot more 193 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 2: rural than Kahaba had been prior to the Civil War, 194 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 2: and it was also very resourceful. The old courthouse became 195 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 2: a meeting place for black activists and other leaders in 196 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 2: the fight for equal rights. During reconstruction, old mansions were 197 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 2: torn down so their building materials could be repurposed or 198 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 2: sold for scrap. Bricks were reused to construct new family homes. 199 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 2: Vacant lots that were left after buildings burned down or 200 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 2: were otherwise destroyed were turned into farms. Eventually, a Confederate 201 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,199 Speaker 2: veteran named Samuel Kirkpatrick bought out much of the town 202 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 2: and converted it into a large farm, but that was 203 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 2: abandoned in the nineteen thirties. The Cahaba Historical Commission was 204 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 2: established in nineteen forty three, and the site was added 205 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 2: to the National Register of Historic Places in nineteen seventy three. 206 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 2: The Alabama Historical Commission took control of the site two 207 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,559 Speaker 2: years later. Today, the visitor center at the park is 208 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 2: in a restored Greek Revival cottage from the town's earlier days. 209 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 2: Visitors can also see an artesian well called the Perine Well, 210 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 2: which was used to air condition a mansion and was 211 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 2: the deepest artesian well in the world when it was built. 212 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 2: There's a two story slave quarters still standing in Saint 213 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 2: Luke's Episcopal Church, which was relocated into the park from 214 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:29,439 Speaker 2: nearby in the early two thousands. There are also collapsed cellars, 215 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 2: ruined buildings, and the foundations of Cahaba Federal Prison. There 216 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 2: are still some chimneys and columns standing from the site's 217 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:42,559 Speaker 2: former mansions as well, and there are some abandoned trailers 218 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 2: that were used by fishers and hunters in the area 219 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 2: in the nineteen eighties. 220 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: There are also cemeteries, and the one called the New 221 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: Cemetery is described as the park's most haunted location. Visitors 222 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: report hearing children laughing and playing, and have even looked 223 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: for park staff near closes time to say that they 224 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 1: were worried some kids were going to be locked in 225 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: when the park gates closed for the night. The park 226 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 1: is generally only opened during daylight hours, but they do 227 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: nighttime Haunted History events in October and those sell out 228 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: every year. We're going to take a quick sponsor break 229 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: and then have two more ghost towns. Listener Erica requested 230 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: an episode on yospa Utah Yusepa is what's in now 231 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: Tula County. This area has connections to multiple indigenous nations 232 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: and it's the ancestral homeland of the Ghost Shoots, who 233 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: are a branch of the Western Shoshone. The ghost Shoots 234 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: had sometimes violent encounters with Europeans as the Spanish started 235 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: colonizing areas to the south of what's now Utah. But 236 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 1: the first non indigenous people to really try to establish 237 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: permanent settlements in the area that we're talking about were 238 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. 239 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: This was after founder Joseph Smith and his brother Hiram 240 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: were killed in Illinois in eighteen forty four and the 241 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: Saints began moving west. Conflicts between the Goshoots and the 242 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: Church and its members were ongoing throughout the period that 243 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: we're talking about. As the newcomers encroached on go Shoot land, 244 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: the Saints also displaced the nearby Ute tribe, causing the 245 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: Ute to try to resettle in Go Shoot territory, and 246 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: that added another layer to this conflict. Ultimately, the federal 247 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: government established reservations for the go Chuote in nineteen twelve 248 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: and nineteen fourteen, which was toward the end of the 249 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: period we're talking about. While this reservation land was part 250 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: of the Goshute's ancestral homeland, it was also much smaller 251 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 1: than the territory they had been living on and using, 252 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: and of course being on a reservation meant they were 253 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: subject to the federal efforts to control their way of 254 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: life into them into white society, which is something we 255 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: have discussed in a lot of other episodes. When church 256 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: leaders first decided to settle in Utah, it was still 257 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: part of Mexico. After the Mexican American War ended in 258 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: eighteen forty eight, this region was part of the Mexican 259 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: Session to the United States Congress established Utah Territory as 260 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: part of the Compromise of eighteen fifty, and President Millard 261 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: Fillmore appointed church leader Brigham Young as territorial governor. Of course, 262 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: there is a whole history of the relationships between the 263 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints and the government, 264 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: including the government of Utah Territory and eventually the State 265 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: of Utah and the federal government, but the establishment of 266 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: Yusipa was more about the church's own membership. The church 267 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: had been sending missionaries to the Pacific Islands, including an 268 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: eight month mission to Hawaii conducted by founder Joseph Smith 269 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty four. Initially, the Hawaiians who joined the 270 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 1: church remained in Hawaii because the Hawaiian monarchy had restrictions 271 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:13,879 Speaker 1: on its citizens permanently emigrating. When those restrictions were loosened, 272 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,399 Speaker 1: Hawaiians started moving to Utah to join the community the 273 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 1: Saints had established there. Other Pacific Islanders who had joined 274 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: the Church moved to Utah as well, but the Hawaiians 275 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: and other Pacific Islanders who made this journey faced racial 276 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: prejudice and bigotry after arriving, and fears that they would 277 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:37,199 Speaker 1: spread leprosy or Hanson's disease in the community. There is 278 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: no record of this disease in Hawaii prior to around 279 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,719 Speaker 1: the eighteen thirties, but its population also had no resistance 280 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: to it, so once it was introduced to Hawaii, it 281 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: spread very quickly. We talked about this more in our 282 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 1: episode on the Koolau Rebellion, which ran as a Saturday 283 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: Classic on November thirtieth of twenty twenty four. There were 284 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: also language barriers between the Pacific Islanders and the rest 285 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: of the church and its leadership, who were predominantly English speaking, 286 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: so in eighteen eighty nine, the church set up a 287 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: committee made up of three former missionaries to Hawaii and 288 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: three Pacific Islanders to find a place to establish a 289 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: separate community. Yosipa was established in Skull Valley as a 290 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,400 Speaker 1: joint stock company to get around laws that limited how 291 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: much property the church could directly own, and it was 292 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: incorporated as Yosipa Agriculture and Stock Company. Its name came 293 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 1: from the Hawaiian pronunciation of the name Joseph, in honor 294 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 1: of Joseph Smith. This was a planned settlement with a 295 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,439 Speaker 1: grid of streets, a central public square, and a meeting 296 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 1: house for church worship. While the design and the layout 297 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: of the community followed the patterns that the Church had 298 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: established for its communities elsewhere, the names of the streets 299 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 1: and other features were taken from the Hawaiian language. This 300 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: community adapted to the valley's desert climate relatively well in 301 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: the hotter months, building irrigation systems and drawing inspiration from 302 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: what life had been like on the windy, er, dryer 303 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: sides of the Pacific Islands. They also planted lots of 304 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: fruit and shade trees around their homes, and they found 305 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: local alternatives to foods that they were used to, like 306 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: growing algae to use in place of seaweed. The winters, though, 307 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 1: were a much bigger issue, with snow and frigid temperatures 308 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: that people were completely unaccustomed to. The town of Yosipo 309 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: was small. It had a population of about two hundred 310 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 1: and thirty people, including some Anglo shareholders and supervisors for 311 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: some of the settlement's farms, and this settlement did struggle. 312 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: It took a long time for the town to start 313 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 1: to sustain itself economically, and the Church often had to 314 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 1: reinvest money into it to keep it afloat. Some of 315 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 1: the men also had to find work in nearby mines 316 00:19:55,800 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: after various crop failures. Three residents did develop leprosy in 317 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: eighteen ninety six, which caused renewed fears of the disease. 318 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 1: Then in nineteen seventeen, the Church decided to abandon Yosepa. 319 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:15,119 Speaker 1: The idea of gathering is part of church doctrine. People 320 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: had come from Hawaii and other Pacific islands because they 321 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: were gathering with the Saints in Utah, but by this 322 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: point Hawaii had been annexed by the United States, and 323 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: the Church had decided to build a temple on the 324 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,479 Speaker 1: island of O Wahoo. Saints would be gathering there as well. 325 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 1: The population of Yoseba was encouraged to return to Hawaii 326 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: to help build that temple, and the church paid their expenses. 327 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 2: While Yosepa is often described as a ghost town because 328 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 2: of this total abandonment in nineteen seventeen, most of the 329 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 2: town itself is not still standing today. It was sold 330 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 2: to a ranching company, which demolished most of the buildings 331 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 2: to turn it into grazing land. Most of what is 332 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:02,199 Speaker 2: still there is the graveyard, which includes monuments and memorials 333 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 2: to the town and its residents, and a pavilion that's 334 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 2: used by descendants of the people who lived in the 335 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 2: town and other church members who visit the area for 336 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 2: things like commemorative events. Luziba was placed on the National 337 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 2: Register of Historic Places in nineteen seventy one. Our next 338 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 2: ghost town was requested by Larissa, and it has the 339 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 2: charming name of Pitthole City, Pennsylvania, that was an oil boomtown. 340 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 2: In eighteen fifty nine, Edwin L. Drake successfully drilled in 341 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 2: oil well near Titusville, Pennsylvania, and this marked the start 342 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 2: of the petroleum industry in Pennsylvania, although it didn't really 343 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 2: start to grow right away because of the Civil War. 344 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 2: Five years later, I. G. Fraser leased a farm on 345 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 2: Pitthole Creek roughly eight miles southeast of Drake Well, and 346 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 2: he drilled a well of his own, successfully striking oil. 347 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 2: In January of eighteen sixty five, word spread of Fraser's 348 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 2: oil strike, and as the weather warmed up in the spring, 349 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 2: people started building a town around it. And this happened 350 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 2: so fast that may Ap Duncan and George C. Prater 351 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 2: bought a big farm and they divided it up into plots. 352 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 2: People started building on their lots within a day or 353 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:20,400 Speaker 2: two of signing a lease. Pitthole's first hotel was called 354 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,919 Speaker 2: Astor House, and it was built over the course of 355 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 2: only a day. By that summer, the town had fifty 356 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,679 Speaker 2: of them. At the city's peak, its post office was 357 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 2: the third busiest in all of Pennsylvania, with only Philadelphia 358 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 2: and Pittsburgh moving more mail every day. Pitthole City quickly 359 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 2: went from not existing at all to having about fifteen 360 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 2: thousand residents. Some of the people who rushed to the 361 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 2: area were former Union soldiers looking for work or a 362 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,160 Speaker 2: place to invest any money they had earned from their 363 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 2: service in the war. There were all kinds of opportunities 364 00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 2: and all kinds of jobs, including thousands of teamsters. Though 365 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 2: being people who handled teams of animals hauling thousands of 366 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,439 Speaker 2: barrels of oil each day. In the summer of eighteen 367 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:11,679 Speaker 2: sixty five, Pitthole City produced roughly a third of the 368 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 2: petroleum in the United States. But while these wells were 369 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 2: extremely productive at first, the oil deposits they were tapping 370 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 2: into were fairly small, and soon they started drying up. 371 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 2: On top of that, the economy and the logistics of 372 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 2: the oil industry started to change. The price of oil 373 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 2: plummeted by almost seventy five percent when a pipeline was 374 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 2: completed in the fall of eighteen sixty six. It made 375 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 2: moving oil out of Pitthole Way easier and more efficient, 376 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 2: but it also put all those thousands of teamsters out 377 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,959 Speaker 2: of work, or at least most of them. The oil 378 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 2: industry also started moving toward consolidation, which put smaller drilling 379 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 2: and refining operations out of business. We talked about this 380 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 2: consolidation process more in our episode on Ida Tarbell versus 381 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 2: John D. Rockefeller, which ran over two parts in November 382 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:12,439 Speaker 2: of twenty twenty one. This industry was also dangerous, and 383 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:17,360 Speaker 2: there were multiple serious oil well explosions and fires. Some 384 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,119 Speaker 2: of these burned not just the wells and the people 385 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 2: who happened to be nearby, but also businesses and homes. 386 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 2: These fires spread easily since most of the buildings were 387 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 2: made entirely of wood, and because oil storage tanks were 388 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 2: intermingled with other buildings. As the city declined and its 389 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 2: population dropped, there was little to no effort to clean 390 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 2: up after these fires. By the end of eighteen sixty six, 391 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 2: there were only about two thousand people left in Pitthole City. 392 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 2: Within another five years, there were less than fifty households left. 393 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,479 Speaker 2: The Pitthole City charter was revoked in February of eighteen 394 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 2: seventy seven, and the land that the city had been 395 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 2: on was sold. In nineteen sixty three, part of the 396 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 2: former city was given to the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. The 397 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 2: Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission opened a visitor center at 398 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 2: the site in nineteen seventy five. Today there is a 399 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 2: visitor center with a miniature model of the town, and 400 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 2: you can still see the foundations of a Methodist church. 401 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 2: Beyond that, what was once a bustling town is now 402 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 2: just a field, with some of the town's former streets 403 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 2: mown into the grass. There are interpretive panels around the fields, 404 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 2: describing what used to be there and the history of 405 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 2: the town. Archaeological sites can also be added to the 406 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 2: National Register of Historic Places, and Pitthhole City was added 407 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 2: to that register in nineteen seventy three. We haven't really 408 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 2: touched on the indigenous history of this part of Pennsylvania, 409 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,719 Speaker 2: in part because there's some overlap with history we will 410 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 2: be talking about later, and in part because the nation 411 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 2: most associated with this area was no longer there by 412 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 2: the time Pitthole's City was founded. But this area was 413 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 2: home to the Iroquois and speaking Erie people who Lake 414 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 2: Erie is named for. The Erie lived on the southern 415 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 2: shore of the lake and to the south and southeast 416 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 2: of there. In the sixteen hundreds, the Erie were at 417 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 2: war with the Hodenashani and many of them were driven 418 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 2: out of the region during this war. Survivors of the 419 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 2: conflict became part of a lot of other indigenous nations, 420 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 2: including some of the nations of the Heddenashani, and we 421 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 2: will be coming back to the Hodenashane later on in 422 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 2: this episode. For now, though, we will take a quick 423 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 2: sponsor break listener Aaron asked for an episode on Jerome, Arizona, 424 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 2: roughly one hundred miles north of Phoenix and Arizona's Black Hills. 425 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 2: Prior to the arrival of Europeans, this area was home 426 00:26:55,960 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 2: to people of the Johokum culture. Like the Mississippi peoples 427 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,879 Speaker 2: we mentioned earlier, this is a term that encompasses a 428 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,199 Speaker 2: number of different indigenous tribes and peoples that had some commonalities, 429 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 2: including their development of complex irrigation canals and the cultivation 430 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 2: of maize. It appears that the Hohocom peoples left this 431 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 2: region sometime between thirteen fifty and fourteen fifty due to 432 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 2: widespread drought. People who returned to the area later are 433 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:32,120 Speaker 2: likely descendants of Hojocom peoples and include multiple autumn nations. 434 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,479 Speaker 1: The Spanish weren't really focused on this area when they 435 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: started colonizing southwestern North America. There were surface levels deposits 436 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 1: of ores and pigments that indigenous people had been using 437 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 1: for centuries, but Spain's focus was really on gold and silver, 438 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 1: not on the copper and other metals found around what's 439 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 1: now Jerome. The area became part of Mexico after it 440 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,479 Speaker 1: gained independence from Spain, and then part of the United 441 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,400 Speaker 1: States after the Mexican American War in eighteen forty eight. 442 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,680 Speaker 2: The first Anglo copper mining claims were staked around Jerome. 443 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,199 Speaker 2: In the eighteen seventies, United Verday Copper Company established a 444 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 2: mining camp that was later named after one of its financiers, 445 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 2: Eugene Jerome. A blast furnace was hauled into the area, 446 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 2: and that furnace successfully produced copper for a few years 447 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 2: in the eighteen eighties, but it went through a closure 448 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 2: and then a change of ownership before actually becoming a 449 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,360 Speaker 2: profitable business, and that was toward the end of the decade. 450 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: The town was incorporated in eighteen ninety nine after a 451 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: series of major fires and a lack of water to 452 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: fight them. Incorporating as a town meant that they could 453 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: establish a town council to make decisions about things like 454 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 1: building codes and fire districts, and water resources like body 455 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: and pit hoole. Most of Jerome's buildings were made of wood, 456 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: and they were built very quickly, and the newly adopted 457 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 1: building code was designed to reduce the risk of major fires. 458 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: After its incorporation, Jerome grew rapidly over the first decades 459 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: of the twentieth century. Its population reached about fifteen thousand people. 460 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: Many of these people were immigrants to the United States. 461 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 1: It's estimated that. 462 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 2: There were people of about thirty different nationalities living in Jerome. 463 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 2: Jerome also had a reputation for danger and crime and lawlessness, 464 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 2: and it was nicknamed the wickedest town in the West. 465 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: There were also labor disputes. Multiple unions tried to organize 466 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: the mines, including the AFL's Mine Mill and smelter Workers, 467 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: the Lega Protectora Latina, and the Industrial Workers of the World, 468 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: also known as the Wobbles. The Industrial Workers of the 469 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 1: World were generally more radical than a lot of other 470 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: labor unions and faced a lot of suspicion and distrust, 471 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: and in nineteen seventeen, mine supervisors and local businessmen teamed 472 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: up to drive the Wabble out of Jerome. We talked 473 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: about this more in our episode on the similar Bisbee 474 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: Deportation that ran as a Saturday Classic in February of 475 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. 476 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 2: Other issues affected Jerome and the landscape around it. Smelting 477 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 2: ore produces a lot of pollution, and that pollution killed 478 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 2: off most of the vegetation in the surrounding area. That 479 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 2: vegetation was what had been anchoring the soil to the hillsides. 480 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 2: When the area's mines started running out of ore, mining 481 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 2: companies moved to open pit mining and blasting, and that 482 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 2: blasting further destabilized the soil. Runoff, erosion, and landslides all 483 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 2: became serious problems. By the mid twentieth century, many of 484 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 2: the mines had closed down after exhausting all the available ore. 485 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 2: Major mining activity ended by nineteen fifty three. Soon the 486 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 2: town's population had dropped to only about one hundred people, 487 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 2: some of whom formed a historical society to try to 488 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 2: preserve the town. Jerome State Historic Park was established in 489 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 2: nineteen fifty seven, but even with those preservation efforts, the 490 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 2: town continued to decline. Buildings that burned, collapsed, or fell 491 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 2: into disrepair were mostly just abandoned, while a lot of 492 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 2: the ones that were still standing were demolished to make 493 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 2: other use of their materials. There was also a major 494 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 2: snowfall in nineteen sixty seven that just flattened some of 495 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 2: the buildings that had started to deteriorate, like they were 496 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 2: so unsound that they couldn't support the weight of the 497 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 2: snow on them. But today Jerome looks a lot different 498 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 2: from body or pit hole. It's not just a historic park, 499 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 2: but a small town dotted with art galleries, wineries and shops. 500 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 2: Shortly after major mining operations ended, artist Roger Holt and 501 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 2: his wife Shan moved to Jerome and together they established 502 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 2: a group called the Verde Valley Artists, which became the 503 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 2: Verde Valley Artists Association. In the nineteen seventies, the Historical 504 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 2: Society and the Artist Society worked together to support the 505 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 2: town and to bring art an artist to Jerome. The 506 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 2: town revived itself as an art colony, and today it 507 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 2: has a population of about four hundred and fifty people, 508 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 2: about a quarter of whom are artists. It's also a 509 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 2: National Historic Landmark and it's on the National Register of 510 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 2: Historic Places, and it has some ghosts stories. The Jerome 511 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 2: Grand Hotel was originally a hospital, and it's rumored to 512 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 2: be haunted by the ghosts of patients who died there. 513 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 2: Visitors have also reported the sounds of squeaky gurneys and 514 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 2: sightings of a ghost cat, although according to the hotel's website, 515 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,720 Speaker 2: the current owner of the hotel isn't into hauntings or 516 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 2: ghost stories. 517 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 1: Lawrence Memorial Hall. 518 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 2: Was built on the site of shacks that were used 519 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 2: by sex workers during Jerome's mining camp days, and it 520 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 2: is purpose heardtedly haunted by their ghosts and has been 521 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 2: given the nickname Spook Hall. People have also reported seeing 522 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 2: strange orbs of light around Jerome's old cemetery. These are 523 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 2: just examples, and since Jerome has become a tourist destination, 524 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 2: there are of course companies who offer ghost tours that 525 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 2: you can take if you visit. And our last ghost 526 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 2: town has been requested by so many listeners over the years. 527 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 2: That is Centralia, Pennsylvania. This is in the eastern part 528 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 2: of the Commonwealth, roughly one hundred miles northwest of Philadelphia. 529 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 2: This is in Pennsylvania's Anthracite Coal region, which spans six 530 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 2: counties and is the only anthracite coal reserve in the 531 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 2: United States. This area is the ancestral home of the 532 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 2: Algonquin speaking Lenape and the Iroquoisan speaking Susquehannock. The Susquehannock 533 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 2: faced violence, war and introduced diseases after the arrival of 534 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 2: European colonists in the area in the seventeenth century, and 535 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 2: most of the surviving Susquehannock joined one of the Six 536 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 2: Nations of the Hudenashawnee, who were eventually forced onto reservations 537 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 2: that are mostly but not entirely located in New York. 538 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 2: The Lenape faced a lot of those same things, and 539 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,720 Speaker 2: they were forced to move west, and today the largest 540 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,240 Speaker 2: population of Lenape in the United States is in Oklahoma. 541 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: These removals were ongoing when Centralia was established. Centralia was 542 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: originally a settlement called Bullshead. It was incorporated as Centralia 543 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,839 Speaker 1: Borough in eighteen sixty six, at which point it had 544 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:41,800 Speaker 1: a population of about thirteen hundred people. When Centralia was incorporated, 545 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 1: cities and towns around the region were growing rapidly thanks 546 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,760 Speaker 1: to an increasing demand for coal. Although this was true 547 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 1: for Centralia as well, it did not have quite the 548 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: same dramatic boom and bust as the other industrial towns 549 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 1: we have talked about today. By the eighteen nineties, its 550 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 1: population had grown from about thirteen hundred to about twenty 551 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 1: eight hundred. It did reportedly have twenty seven saloons at 552 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 1: that point, and one saloon for every hundred residents. Does 553 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: seem like a lot not to me yet? Uh. 554 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,279 Speaker 2: It wasn't, though, Like going from not really existing to 555 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,280 Speaker 2: having fifteen thousand residents seemingly overnight. 556 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 1: Centrillia's decline in the face of a faltering coal industry 557 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,800 Speaker 1: and other economic pressures also was not quite as dramatic. 558 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: By nineteen fifty, there were still almost two thousand people 559 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 1: living there, and by nineteen sixty that had dropped to 560 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 1: about fifteen hundred. Centrillia became a ghost town for a 561 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 1: different reason, because of a fire which was first detected 562 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 1: in a surface mind pit near the Independent Order of 563 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 1: Oddfellow Cemetery. 564 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 2: There is some debate about the exact cause of the 565 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,880 Speaker 2: fire and who was responsible, but the thing that comes 566 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,960 Speaker 2: up the most often was a decision to burn the 567 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 2: trash in the city's landfill ahead of Memorial Day in 568 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty two. This landfill had been started in an 569 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,760 Speaker 2: old coal pit, and there was not a fireproof barrier 570 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 2: between the bottom of the pit and the flammable coal 571 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 2: in the ground underneath it, so the fire spread from 572 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 2: the landfill to these underground coal seams, either starting the 573 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 2: underground fire or fueling a fire that had already started 574 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:36,240 Speaker 2: from some other source. 575 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 1: Once the fire was detected, people tried to put it 576 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 1: out by dousing it with water and by smothering it 577 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 1: with clay. There were also efforts to dig trenches and 578 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:51,959 Speaker 1: fill old mine shafts and pits with noncombustible materials. None 579 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: of this successfully extinguished the fire. The obvious challenges of 580 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,239 Speaker 1: trying to fight a fire underground were made even more 581 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,720 Speaker 1: challenging by the fact that mining operations had been going 582 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: on in Centrilia for decades and that included illicit digging 583 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: that was not documented anywhere. So there were all kinds 584 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 1: of unmapped shafts and tunnels and brakes that could continue 585 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:19,280 Speaker 1: to provide this fire with oxygen and exposed coal seams 586 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,719 Speaker 1: that could provide it with fuel. Over the first two 587 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: decades after the fire started, more than seven million dollars 588 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 1: was spent on firefighting and on relocating some of the 589 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: people whose homes were in the most danger. 590 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 2: As this fire spread underground, parts of the town were 591 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 2: blanketed with carbon monoxide and various other gases and smoke. 592 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,720 Speaker 2: People could also feel the heat from the fire above 593 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 2: the ground, and things that were stored underground, including things 594 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:54,439 Speaker 2: like the fuel tanks at gas stations, started heating up 595 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 2: as well. Sinkholes formed as the fire hollowed out the 596 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 2: coal deposits, homes and other buildings started to shift and tilt, 597 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 2: and sink. Parts of two cemeteries are believed to have 598 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:12,319 Speaker 2: dropped down into the earth. Surprisingly to me, a lot 599 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 2: of people in Centralia just lived with all of this 600 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 2: for almost a decade, but some people started developing health 601 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 2: problems and the situation became obviously increasingly dangerous. On Valentine's 602 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 2: Day of nineteen eighty one, a twelve year old boy 603 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 2: fell into a sinkhole and had to be rescued. People 604 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,879 Speaker 2: quickly realized that the sinkhole was spewing carbon monoxide and 605 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 2: that if it had taken them much longer to get 606 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 2: the boy out, he would have died. The ongoing fire 607 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,759 Speaker 2: and its dangers were also getting increasing media attention, so 608 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,319 Speaker 2: not long after this, authorities decided to just clear out 609 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:53,719 Speaker 2: the town. Formal relocation efforts started. In nineteen eighty three, 610 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:59,280 Speaker 2: Congress appropriated forty two million dollars for the relocation effort. 611 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,400 Speaker 2: A year later, that carried on, and then in nineteen 612 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,840 Speaker 2: ninety two, the remaining buildings still standing in the town 613 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,839 Speaker 2: were condemned. A year after that, Route sixty one through 614 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,320 Speaker 2: the town was closed and re routed. In two thousand 615 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 2: and two, the United States Postal Service revoked the town's 616 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:22,680 Speaker 2: zip code. Meanwhile, a few holdouts refused to leave, and 617 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 2: some actually filed suit to be able to keep their homes. 618 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,960 Speaker 2: A court ultimately allowed them to remain in Centralia for 619 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 2: the rest of their lives, and they cannot sell their 620 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 2: property or leave it to someone else in their estate. 621 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 2: As of twenty twenty, there were five people remaining there. 622 00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:44,360 Speaker 2: The Centralia mind fire is still burning today, and it 623 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:48,719 Speaker 2: is one of more than twenty active mind fires in Pennsylvania. 624 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 2: It's believed that if it is not somehow extinguished, it 625 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,840 Speaker 2: will continue burning underground for centuries. The Assumption of the 626 00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:01,799 Speaker 2: Blessed Virgin Mary Ukrainian Catholic Church still stands in Centralia 627 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:05,719 Speaker 2: and it's still in use so far apparently unaffected by 628 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,480 Speaker 2: the fire, but otherwise the town's buildings are mostly gone. 629 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 2: What is left is mostly cemeteries, streets that are slowly 630 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:19,000 Speaker 2: cracking apart building foundations, and concrete stairs that lead to nothing. 631 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,040 Speaker 2: Route sixty one had become covered in so much graffiti 632 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,839 Speaker 2: that it was nicknamed Graffiti Highway. During the stay at 633 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,319 Speaker 2: home order phase of the COVID nineteen pandemic, people were 634 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:34,400 Speaker 2: still going there, including holding a large bonfire gathering in 635 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:38,640 Speaker 2: late March of twenty twenty. A company called Pagnati Enterprises 636 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 2: owns a lot of the adjacent land, and the Pennsylvania 637 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 2: Department of Transportation had turned over the highway right of 638 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 2: way to them in twenty eighteen. Pagnatty Enterprises buried the 639 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 2: remains of the highway in dirt to discourage visitors. Unsurprisingly, 640 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 2: burying the graffiti Highway not a popular decision by people 641 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 2: who were fans of the Griffea Highway and sort of 642 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:07,320 Speaker 2: Centralia lore. Today. Centralia is also associated with the supernatural 643 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:12,719 Speaker 2: horror franchise Silent Hill, although that connection mostly follows the 644 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,960 Speaker 2: two thousand and six Silent Hill movie rather than the 645 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,400 Speaker 2: earlier video game franchise that the film is based on. 646 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,920 Speaker 2: And those are our six ghost towns for today. 647 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 1: Ghost towns. Do you have one listener? Mail? 648 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:33,320 Speaker 2: I do. It's absolutely unrelated to this. This is from Wendy. 649 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 2: Wendy is one of a number of people who sent 650 00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,720 Speaker 2: similar queries. Wendy wrote to say, Hello Tracy and Holly. 651 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 2: Several times I've heard Tracy, I think I still don't 652 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,359 Speaker 2: have your voices associated to your name. 653 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:44,840 Speaker 1: Sorry. 654 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:49,280 Speaker 2: Mention drum Core in passing. My daughter did one season 655 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,440 Speaker 2: of drum Corp Color Guard and is working on her 656 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:55,480 Speaker 2: auditions and fundraising for one more season before she ages out. 657 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,960 Speaker 2: Your references to drum Corps have us so intrigue. First, 658 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,239 Speaker 2: have you ever done an episode on drum Core? If not, 659 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:03,560 Speaker 2: we'd love to hear one. If drum Core isn't a 660 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,160 Speaker 2: big enough topic on its own, you could always add 661 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:10,839 Speaker 2: in WGI, indoor percussion and winter Guard. Second, to the 662 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,200 Speaker 2: extent that you're willing to share, where did you march? 663 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,400 Speaker 2: What instrument did you play? And what are your thoughts 664 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,640 Speaker 2: about your drum Corp experience. Thankfully, my daughter had an 665 00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 2: amazing first season last year, saying it was the hardest 666 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,440 Speaker 2: and most rewarding things she'd ever done. We're hoping she 667 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 2: gets an opportunity to perform at Indie again next summer. 668 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:29,240 Speaker 1: For pet tax. 669 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,759 Speaker 2: Here is our ten year old rescue kitty, Missed, who 670 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,640 Speaker 2: always manages to find something of ours to sit on 671 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,759 Speaker 2: the mail, a sweatshirt, the book you're reading, or in 672 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,320 Speaker 2: this case, a blanket I'm trying to crochet. And equally 673 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,000 Speaker 2: as adorable my Drum Corp daughter in costume. She is 674 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,080 Speaker 2: the shortest one in the front. I hope you have 675 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:50,359 Speaker 2: a fantastic week, Wendy. Thanks Wendy. Like I said, we 676 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,400 Speaker 2: got some variation on this question in email and on 677 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,479 Speaker 2: social media comments, so I thought I would answer it. Yeah, 678 00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:59,920 Speaker 2: I was in the Color Guard. I was also in 679 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,800 Speaker 2: my marching bands Color Guard. I marched with Carolina Crown 680 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:08,880 Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety two. I started the nineteen ninety three season. 681 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:13,400 Speaker 2: I made it through all of the wintertime rehearsal phase 682 00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 2: and got not very far into like the everyday summer 683 00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:24,880 Speaker 2: rehearsals ahead of touring because in my first year of 684 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:30,080 Speaker 2: Drum Corps I got mono, and recovering fully from mono 685 00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:34,920 Speaker 2: took me a long time. I seem to do okay 686 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,520 Speaker 2: with the weekend rehearsals that were just like Friday evening, 687 00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:42,040 Speaker 2: Saturday and Sunday, but once it was every day in 688 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,960 Speaker 2: the summer. And also, if I recall correctly, we were 689 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,080 Speaker 2: being housed in dorms that weren't air conditioned. Like I 690 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,400 Speaker 2: just my body wasn't capable of it. It was not 691 00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,520 Speaker 2: it was not working. And then also I was a 692 00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:59,719 Speaker 2: teenager and had teenager drama that also probably was a 693 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:04,120 Speaker 2: effect on my decision. To drop out, but I think 694 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,080 Speaker 2: had I not dropped out when I did, I would 695 00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:09,600 Speaker 2: have eventually wound up in the hospital, possibly like I 696 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:14,600 Speaker 2: was really physically struggling. I have a variety of feelings 697 00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,000 Speaker 2: about my time in drum Corp. 698 00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:16,600 Speaker 1: At Carolina. 699 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,240 Speaker 2: Crown was a much much smaller core at the time, 700 00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,719 Speaker 2: it had only been in existence for a couple or 701 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,160 Speaker 2: three years. A lot of the people that I marched 702 00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:28,560 Speaker 2: with were founding members, and it was, much like I said, 703 00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:32,880 Speaker 2: a much smaller core than it is today. I credit 704 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:38,280 Speaker 2: doing a drum corps with having a pretty easy transition 705 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:42,919 Speaker 2: from high school to being in college and being responsible 706 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:47,239 Speaker 2: for myself and having to look after myself. I think 707 00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,200 Speaker 2: doing drum Corps in a lot of ways helped me 708 00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:55,120 Speaker 2: with some self confidence and some autonomy that I had 709 00:44:55,160 --> 00:45:00,000 Speaker 2: not really had the opportunity to develop in other contexts simultaneous, 710 00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:03,520 Speaker 2: at least when I was there, and this was thirty 711 00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:05,680 Speaker 2: something years ago, I cannot tell you if it is 712 00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:09,360 Speaker 2: still like this. There was a real culture of pushing 713 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:13,200 Speaker 2: through injuries and not seeking help if you got sick, 714 00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,200 Speaker 2: and in addition to getting mono during drum Corp and 715 00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,400 Speaker 2: taking well over a year to fully recover from it. 716 00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,520 Speaker 2: I also did soft tissue damage to both of my 717 00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,439 Speaker 2: ankles that took a really long time to recover from. 718 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:31,560 Speaker 2: And also, in my opinion, the adults who were responsible 719 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:35,759 Speaker 2: for uh, you know, instructing us young people did not 720 00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,560 Speaker 2: do a good job of modeling the behavior of leading 721 00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:44,840 Speaker 2: people without abusing them. I just don't think that grown 722 00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:50,919 Speaker 2: adult men should be screaming obscenities at children over what's 723 00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:56,640 Speaker 2: effectively a halftime performance. Like uh, maybe that's me being 724 00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,480 Speaker 2: prissy and old fashioned, but like, I just I don't 725 00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,040 Speaker 2: think there is cause for that and is not the 726 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:07,080 Speaker 2: way that we should operate as a society. So it 727 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:09,480 Speaker 2: was something that I really got a lot of out 728 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:12,080 Speaker 2: of and I still look back on and kind of go, huh. 729 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:14,520 Speaker 2: I don't love the fact that a bunch of teenagers 730 00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:18,720 Speaker 2: were continuing to march on injuries and injuring themselves worse 731 00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:24,600 Speaker 2: for the sake of a competitive marching experience. And yeah, 732 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:26,960 Speaker 2: in a lot of ways it was a fun experience. 733 00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,560 Speaker 2: In other ways, as an adult looking back on it, 734 00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:33,320 Speaker 2: things about it trouble me. Again. That is my experience 735 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,719 Speaker 2: from thirty plus years ago. It is not a commentary 736 00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:39,080 Speaker 2: on what the core is like, now I have no idea, 737 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:42,480 Speaker 2: and yeah, we have an adorable picture of an adorable 738 00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:48,319 Speaker 2: cat lying on a partially completed crochet blanket, and an 739 00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:55,200 Speaker 2: incredibly fun photo of in costume color Guard members. I'm 740 00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,239 Speaker 2: not going to get into the exact details because I 741 00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,719 Speaker 2: don't want to, you know, involve somebody else's privacy. But 742 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,759 Speaker 2: that's a very fun picture of this this color Guard. 743 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,279 Speaker 2: So that was my drum core experience. Thank you for 744 00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,160 Speaker 2: the question, Wendy and other folks who have asked about it. 745 00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:13,440 Speaker 2: If you'd like to send us a note where hit 746 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:17,719 Speaker 2: history podcasts atiheartradio dot com, and you can subscribe to 747 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,360 Speaker 2: our show on the iHeartRadio app and anywhere else you 748 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:29,879 Speaker 2: like to get your podcasts. Stuff you missed in History 749 00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:34,279 Speaker 2: Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 750 00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:38,040 Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 751 00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:39,319 Speaker 2: to your favorite shows.