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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio. Adrian Lee is with us. The new book

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Speaker 1: is about the ghosts of the US Dakota Wars in

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Speaker 1: eighteen sixty two. But you will be among the very

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Speaker 1: few who will have studied the subject for a long time,

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Speaker 1: having done battlefield research in Europe as well. What would

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Speaker 1: you say, Adrian, was the experience in Europe that close

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Speaker 1: more closely resembled that which you had in Minnesota and

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Speaker 1: the Dakota territory for the US Dakota War. I think

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Speaker 1: one of the things we need to touch upon is

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Speaker 1: to talk about the idea of a residual haunting compared

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Speaker 1: to an intelligent haunting. So one of the battles that

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Speaker 1: I investigated in England that comes to mind. I did

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Speaker 1: this with the Luton Paranormal Society about fifteen years ago.

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Speaker 1: Now is the Battle of Mainsby, and that was part

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Speaker 1: of the English Civil War. It was in north Hamptonshire

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Speaker 1: and that was so the fourteenth of June sixteen forty five.

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Speaker 1: It was the Parliamentarians against the Royalists and there was

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Speaker 1: fourteen hundreds soldiers killed and wounded in a square mile

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Speaker 1: of a field and we went out there to investigate

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Speaker 1: on the fourteenth of June, the anniversary of the battle.

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Speaker 1: And one of the problems I have, as I said before,

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Speaker 1: with investigating battles in Britain, for example, but it is

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Speaker 1: the last battle on British soil was seventeen forty six,

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Speaker 1: so you're getting energy dissipating those spirits, and those ghosts

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Speaker 1: are slowly disappearing from those sites as energy disappears. Einstein

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Speaker 1: spoke about this at the turn of the last century,

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Speaker 1: of course. But the interesting thing is that those residual

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Speaker 1: sounds of battle we heard gunshots going off on our

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Speaker 1: digital voice recorders as EVPs, we heard screams and shouts

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Speaker 1: when we're in the middle of nowhere in a field

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Speaker 1: in Northamptonshire. And guns, of course are illegal in Britain.

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Speaker 1: Even the police don't carry guns. They wouldn't be random

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Speaker 1: gun firing going often night, as you might expect in

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Speaker 1: some areas of America. But it was very interesting that

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Speaker 1: when I then investigated the Dakota War, those residual hauntings

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Speaker 1: still exists. So the energy is higher for the Dakota

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Speaker 1: War because that's more recent. That's eighteen sixty two. The

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Speaker 1: energy is still there. But the sounds that I was

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Speaker 1: hearing of horses neighing, of gunshots going off that was

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Speaker 1: more residually based. Did you remind me of the battlefields

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Speaker 1: I've investigated in Britain. So there's that sense that the

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Speaker 1: residual energy is still there and I'm still getting those

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Speaker 1: same EVPs despite the facts I'm one two continents. But

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Speaker 1: the US Dakota War gave me an opportunity to actually

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Speaker 1: investigate an intelligent haunting. And the times I can think

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Speaker 1: of intelligent hauntings that I've investigated in Britain would be

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Speaker 1: places that were more associated with maybe the First and

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Speaker 1: Second World War. There's a fault in Tilbury on the

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Speaker 1: Thames Estry that was built in the fifteen thirties but

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Speaker 1: at a hindkell a German bomber was shut down there

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Speaker 1: and landed in the Thames Estuary. I mean the Brits

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Speaker 1: set up a series of guns and an anti tank

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Speaker 1: sorry anti aircraft fire to try and get the bombers

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Speaker 1: down before they reached London as they're going up the Thames,

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Speaker 1: and they had the wreckage of a hindkelled bomber in

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Speaker 1: that particular fault, and I did have a conversation in

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Speaker 1: German with a pilot who was part of that wreckage

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Speaker 1: or attached to that in spirit. So it's to do

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Speaker 1: with how old the battles are and how far back

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Speaker 1: they go. Depended on whether you're getting residual or intelligent.

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Speaker 1: But it was the residual stuff that kind of compared

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Speaker 1: to the Dakote to wars I've done in Britain. One

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Speaker 1: would think that this type of psychic research could be

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Speaker 1: done in a boat hovering over the site of a

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Speaker 1: sinking of a ship. That is possible. I guess I

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Speaker 1: have to emphasize the fact that very little psychic work

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Speaker 1: is done on these investigations. The psychic element for me

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Speaker 1: is if I arrive at somewhere at Fort Ridgeley that

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Speaker 1: you may be familiar with in Fairfax. It's such a

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Speaker 1: large earthworks and such a large sprawling site. Is if

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Speaker 1: I walk around there and I make notes, I've got

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Speaker 1: a limited amount of time, I've got a huge site.

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Speaker 1: I've only got so many investigators with me. More of

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Speaker 1: the psychic aspect comes as to where's the best place

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Speaker 1: to get information, where's the best energy, where can I

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Speaker 1: go to make the best use of my time. The

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Speaker 1: conversations that I'm having with the Dacota in the US Army,

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Speaker 1: that I'm explaining to your listeners is actually empirical evidence.

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Speaker 1: It's coming through and spirit boxes is coming through as

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Speaker 1: responses on digital voice recorders. I can actually play you

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Speaker 1: the responses now and everyone would hear them. You could

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Speaker 1: hear the conversation, you could hear the coal crow talking

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Speaker 1: to me and responding to my questions. So body of

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Speaker 1: work it does present itself as in partial evidence that

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Speaker 1: we can all listen to. We can all view on

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Speaker 1: infrared cameras, on thermal imaging cameras. Everything's there more scientifically

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Speaker 1: to see the psychic element comes about purely to point

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Speaker 1: me in the right direction, or if I'm in a

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Speaker 1: location where nothing's happening and I feel it's just a

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Speaker 1: good catalyst to use my psychic skill to see what

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Speaker 1: he's there and what I can be engaging with. I

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Speaker 1: love that your work, and I mentioned it's only because

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Speaker 1: I recently saw the movie Titanic, and that was a

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Speaker 1: kind of an aspect of that of Titanic, that the

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Speaker 1: idea that on the ship the spirits of the people

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Speaker 1: who died that night after hitting the iceberg. Are still

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Speaker 1: there on the ship, living a different life, living a

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Speaker 1: luxurious life, living a life without cultural barriers or the

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Speaker 1: strata of upper class and middle class, and that when

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Speaker 1: somebody dies, that they would be rejoined psychically into that space.

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Speaker 1: I really liked how James Cameron did that. Do you

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Speaker 1: find that there are people who survive a battlefield but

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Speaker 1: are drawn back to it on debt upon their death

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Speaker 1: because that's the place where they feel they felt more

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Speaker 1: connected than in the home that they were living in.

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Speaker 1: I definitely feel that's the case, and I have examples

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Speaker 1: of that. I'm actually going to mention my granddad briefly.

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Speaker 1: He's past now and he died in his nineties, but

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Speaker 1: he was conscripted in the Second World War into the

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Speaker 1: RAF and he worked as a ground crew on British

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Speaker 1: bombers like Lancaster's and Wellington's. And if you think about

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Speaker 1: my granddad comes from East London. He was born in

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Speaker 1: the Depression, He worked on the docks, he was a shipbuilder.

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Speaker 1: He would never travel abroad. There was no facility for

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Speaker 1: him to go anywhere outside of East London. And all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden you're plocked out of obscurity in a

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Speaker 1: very poor, working class slum area, and you're suddenly in

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Speaker 1: the RAF in the Second World War, and you're suddenly

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Speaker 1: in Egypt, You're sunny in India. He was posted to Iceland,

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Speaker 1: he was out in Hong Kong, he was in the

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Speaker 1: Far East. He spent six years in the RAF, traveled

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Speaker 1: to all over the world, places he would never get

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Speaker 1: a chance to see ever again, and then at the

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Speaker 1: end of the war gets plopped back in East London

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Speaker 1: to be a docker again. And I just think there's

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Speaker 1: a sense that, especially with the Dakota War, I do

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Speaker 1: feel as if people come back to those sites because

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Speaker 1: they would never have that experience again. You're heightemed. You know,

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Speaker 1: if you think about my granddad, he's experiencing things that

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Speaker 1: he would never have experienced under any other circumstance. He's

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Speaker 1: good or bad, for example, And there are moments. There's

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Speaker 1: a place called Camp Release that you may be familiar

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Speaker 1: with in Montevideo, and I did an investigation there and

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Speaker 1: this sites important because at the end of the Dakota War,

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Speaker 1: that's where the Dacota surrendered and all the prisoners that

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Speaker 1: they had, of all the pioneers they had captured during

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Speaker 1: the course of the conflict were then released, and unfortunately

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Speaker 1: that Dakota were tried without a jury and without proper

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Speaker 1: representation at that location, and of course many of them

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Speaker 1: were then executed, as you're well aware. But on that

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Speaker 1: site of camp release, a gentleman came through in spirit

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Speaker 1: on the spirit box and said his name was Charles

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Speaker 1: Flandrew and he was actually showing his son around in spirit.

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Speaker 1: And Charles Flandrew was part of that process. He was

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Speaker 1: part of the US Army and he's actually one of

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Speaker 1: the people that helped defend Medidia when it was looking

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Speaker 1: to be massacred and there was looking to be taken over.

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Speaker 1: So he was a very important figure within the US

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Speaker 1: Army at that time. And actually spoke to him and

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Speaker 1: setting with visiting. So again, a very perceptive question. But

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Speaker 1: there has been elements in my work where people aren't

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Speaker 1: hanging out at battle fields, but they are going back

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Speaker 1: to visit. Their energy is there and imprinted on the soil.

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Speaker 1: And I think I just want to mention briefly that

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Speaker 1: at the Battle of Birch Cooley, where I said there

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Speaker 1: was the biggest loss of life for the US Army,

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Speaker 1: This incident encapsulates everything I do. I said, who's here,

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Speaker 1: who wants to talk to me? I want to document

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Speaker 1: your life? And a Norwegian gentleman came through who said

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Speaker 1: his name was not against him, and I made a

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Speaker 1: note of this then as a historian, the next day

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Speaker 1: I went to look him up. I found all of

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Speaker 1: his pension records. I found his mustering in and mustering

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Speaker 1: out details. He was actually posting and was at the

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Speaker 1: fire at Birch Cooley. And the only reason I know

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Speaker 1: who exists is because he told me his name. So

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Speaker 1: I then went on to ancestry dot com and I

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Speaker 1: then discovered that he's great great granddaughter only lives twenty

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Speaker 1: miles away from the battlefield. And I ran her cold,

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Speaker 1: having found her details on the internet, and said, look,

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Speaker 1: you don't know who I am. I've spoken to the

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Speaker 1: spirit of your great great grand out at the Battle

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Speaker 1: of Birch Cooley. Are you interested? She said yes, And

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Speaker 1: with the Historical Society in Menville County, we took her

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Speaker 1: out there. She was holding a musket of the period.

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Speaker 1: The press was there and we took photographs. And the

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Speaker 1: sole reason all that happened is because that gentleman stepped

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Speaker 1: forward and said his name and told me who he was.

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Speaker 1: And I think I want to emphasize that the spirits

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Speaker 1: have a choice. They don't have to talk to me.

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Speaker 1: I'm not forcing anything upon them. I'm very open in

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Speaker 1: what I'm suggesting to them. And that was an example

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Speaker 1: of where everything just worked perfectly. And it's a very

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Speaker 1: good good argument for people that say they don't believe

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Speaker 1: in ghosts, because if you don't believe in ghosts and spirits,

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Speaker 1: how does that then happen? Well, they would probably say

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Speaker 1: it didn't right, So I mean in the skepticism in

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Speaker 1: that extreme, they were just able to say, you're making

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Speaker 1: that up. That's that's their explanation for it. Oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: At that point, you've got two choices to make. Either

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Speaker 1: I come across as a genuine historian with qualifications who

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Speaker 1: backs everything up with reference in and footnotes and everything else,

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Speaker 1: or I'm lying. But if I'm presenting empirical evidence, if

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Speaker 1: you can hear the man say his name through the

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Speaker 1: spirit box, you know that improves my argument. But then

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Speaker 1: they will turn around and say, well, you just made

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Speaker 1: that up. Someone in the background has got a walky

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Speaker 1: talkie or something else. Happened. Well, firstly, I don't have

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Speaker 1: the time and energy to do that, and there were

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Speaker 1: so many people that took place. You took part within

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Speaker 1: this bathroom. So much of it is undocumented that I

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Speaker 1: couldn't have even looked up which soldiers were at that

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Speaker 1: battle because there's no information to say who was there,

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Speaker 1: your granddad who was involved with the RAF. It too

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Speaker 1: reminds me of some of the mysteries of missing planes.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever attempted to network through a spirit that

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Speaker 1: was in, say the RAF to find out what really

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Speaker 1: did happen with, say Glenn Miller and the disappearance of

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Speaker 1: you know, the one of the kings of swing over

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Speaker 1: the English Channel, a story that's never been fully resolved.

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Speaker 1: Is there ways to do that, like for to find

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Speaker 1: out what happened with Amelia Earhart or any of the

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Speaker 1: other most famous flight flights that disappeared or flights that

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Speaker 1: that we still wonder if there's still me some historical

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Speaker 1: debate about what happened to them. Yes, there is. There's

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Speaker 1: two things that I need to touch upon. Firstly, it's

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Speaker 1: very interesting you should bring up Glenn Miller because I

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Speaker 1: actually investigated in Hertfordshire in Britain Bobbington Airfield, which is

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Speaker 1: the airfield he actually left from when he disappeared. He

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Speaker 1: didn't come through at that airfields. It's a strip of

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Speaker 1: two miles of tarmac. Don't think there's anything there that's interesting.

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Speaker 1: But I did have an American air crew come through.

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Speaker 1: I think they were flying a Liberator if my memory

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Speaker 1: serves me right, that's a Bee plane. But I can't

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Speaker 1: remember the number of the Bee. But they did come through,

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Speaker 1: and they said they were from Austin, Texas and he

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Speaker 1: named his crew. So I did have an American flight

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Speaker 1: crew come through in an airfield that the Americans used

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Speaker 1: during the Second World War. But Glenn Miller personally never

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Speaker 1: came through, but in fearing you could ask for him

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Speaker 1: and see if he was there, but just to divert slightly.

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Speaker 1: And the second part of my answer is that I've

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Speaker 1: actually been to various locations, for example like Clearwater in

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Speaker 1: Iowa where the Buddy Holly crash took place that killed

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Speaker 1: the Big Popper and Richard Valance and the place. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I actually spoke to him and he came through

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Speaker 1: on the equipment and actually discussed why the plane crashed,

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Speaker 1: and we had a discussion with the pilot, whose name

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Speaker 1: was Roger Patterson, and we actually had an air traffic

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Speaker 1: controller with us who's done that all their life, and

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Speaker 1: we had a very long and detailed conversation as to

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Speaker 1: why that plane crash and what actually happened. So you

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Speaker 1: can absolutely do that. That's something you can do. It

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Speaker 1: just never happened with Glenn Miller, although ironically I happened

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Speaker 1: to be on the airfield. Yeah, we actually took off,

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Speaker 1: and believe it or not, the B twenty four is

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Speaker 1: what you were trying to think of. So let's go

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Speaker 1: back to Clear Lake, because I was there not more

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Speaker 1: than say a year and a half ago. And you know,

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Speaker 1: we don't we know that weather it was bad, We

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Speaker 1: know that there was there could have been a problem

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Speaker 1: with the plane. What did you learn about why Buddy

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Speaker 1: Holly's plane went down the day the music died. Several

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Speaker 1: things happened, of course, there's multiple issues. It isn't just

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Speaker 1: one thing. I spoke to the pilot. Roger Patterson's actually

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Speaker 1: buried not that fast south of me and Ira. Actually

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Speaker 1: I have spoken to him. I spoke to Buddy Holly

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Speaker 1: as well. But several things happened and this investigation took

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Speaker 1: place over several days, so I'm just condensing it for you.

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Speaker 1: But he said he lost the horizon, and it was

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Speaker 1: obviously dark early in the morning, and he wasn't qualified.

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Speaker 1: He was only twenty one years old, and he wasn't

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Speaker 1: actually qualified to read instrumentation at night and fly at night,

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Speaker 1: and he said he lost the horizon. And then he

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Speaker 1: also said that the winds at ice up, which he

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Speaker 1: was bitterly cold obviously, you know in Iowa in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the winter. So the two main reasons for

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Speaker 1: the plane crashing, amongst other things, was the fact that

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Speaker 1: he had lack of experience, that he didn't have any

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Speaker 1: knowledge or experience of flying at night. He said he

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Speaker 1: lost the horizon and the wings at ice up. And

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Speaker 1: then if you look at the history of that type

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Speaker 1: of airplane, there is a history of crashes due to

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Speaker 1: those things happening. It wasn't an easy plane historically to fly.

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Speaker 1: And if you look up that type of aircraft, he

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Speaker 1: did have a whole backlog of problems that other pilots

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Speaker 1: that experienced. So in a nutshell, those were the things

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Speaker 1: that caused the issue. Listen to more Coast to coast

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Speaker 1: AM every weeknight at one am Eastern and go to

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Speaker 1: Coast to coast am dot com for more