1 00:00:16,897 --> 00:00:30,377 Speaker 1: Pushkin Before we get started, let's talk about Pushkin Plus. 2 00:00:30,897 --> 00:00:35,497 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus is a subscription podcast program available on Apple Podcasts. 3 00:00:36,057 --> 00:00:39,497 Speaker 1: Members will get access to exclusive bonus content like my 4 00:00:39,577 --> 00:00:42,217 Speaker 1: weekly bookmarks, where I talk about how I got a 5 00:00:42,257 --> 00:00:44,657 Speaker 1: book agent and what I'm watching on TV that week. 6 00:00:45,257 --> 00:00:49,017 Speaker 1: You'll get uninterrupted listening to many of your favorite podcasts 7 00:00:49,337 --> 00:00:54,257 Speaker 1: like Revisionous History, Pushitionary Tales, and The Happiness Lab. Sign 8 00:00:54,297 --> 00:00:56,297 Speaker 1: up for Pushkin Plus on the show of Page an 9 00:00:56,297 --> 00:01:11,377 Speaker 1: Apple podcast or at pushkin dot Fm. Two use the 10 00:01:11,457 --> 00:01:17,297 Speaker 1: skills and my energy and time. That's what allows me 11 00:01:17,377 --> 00:01:20,657 Speaker 1: to get up every morning. I look at the life 12 00:01:20,697 --> 00:01:23,657 Speaker 1: that my mother had and that her mother had, and 13 00:01:24,017 --> 00:01:27,537 Speaker 1: realized how much more that I have, and so to 14 00:01:27,657 --> 00:01:32,577 Speaker 1: honor her. I just feel that you're on the earth 15 00:01:32,937 --> 00:01:37,857 Speaker 1: or a short time, and that you have to use 16 00:01:37,897 --> 00:01:48,937 Speaker 1: that time in the service of others. Anita Hill's career 17 00:01:49,097 --> 00:01:52,497 Speaker 1: has been in the service of others. She has met 18 00:01:52,537 --> 00:01:57,297 Speaker 1: her whole life defending and supporting women that society has overlooked. 19 00:01:58,617 --> 00:02:01,577 Speaker 1: Miss Hill taught a generation of women like myself that 20 00:02:01,737 --> 00:02:05,297 Speaker 1: speaking your truth is never easy, but it will give 21 00:02:05,337 --> 00:02:08,537 Speaker 1: you a sense of peace. When I started the well 22 00:02:08,537 --> 00:02:11,257 Speaker 1: read Black Girl, book Club. I saw women like Anita 23 00:02:11,377 --> 00:02:15,417 Speaker 1: Hill as inspirations, in part because she drew from her 24 00:02:15,417 --> 00:02:19,937 Speaker 1: own life experiences, but also because she knows how important 25 00:02:19,937 --> 00:02:25,417 Speaker 1: community is to every single movement. We can't do it alone. 26 00:02:26,337 --> 00:02:30,577 Speaker 1: Service can seem daunting, like where do I start? How 27 00:02:30,617 --> 00:02:34,777 Speaker 1: do I start? But Anita Hill, she makes it all 28 00:02:34,897 --> 00:02:41,177 Speaker 1: feel within reach. She gives us a beginning, and with 29 00:02:41,217 --> 00:02:56,537 Speaker 1: her latest book, Believing, she gives us a roadmap. Welcome 30 00:02:56,577 --> 00:02:59,937 Speaker 1: to well Read Black Girl, the literary kickback you didn't 31 00:03:00,017 --> 00:03:05,417 Speaker 1: even know you needed. I'm your host, Glory Adam. Every 32 00:03:05,417 --> 00:03:08,777 Speaker 1: week I'll be talking to writers, thinkers, and makers about 33 00:03:08,817 --> 00:03:13,817 Speaker 1: how they found their voice, hone their craft, navigated publishing, 34 00:03:14,377 --> 00:03:18,537 Speaker 1: and yeah, showed up in the world. In this episode, 35 00:03:18,617 --> 00:03:21,417 Speaker 1: I talked with Anita Hill about her career of service, 36 00:03:21,737 --> 00:03:25,417 Speaker 1: who inspires her, and how this current cultural moment can 37 00:03:25,537 --> 00:03:43,777 Speaker 1: lead to real change. Today's episode is really special to 38 00:03:43,817 --> 00:03:48,377 Speaker 1: me because Alphian conversation with another host in the Pushkin family, 39 00:03:48,977 --> 00:03:54,537 Speaker 1: Anita Hill. Since nineteen ninety one, Anita Hill has become 40 00:03:54,657 --> 00:03:58,257 Speaker 1: a symbol. She embraced her role as an advocate for 41 00:03:58,297 --> 00:04:04,457 Speaker 1: women's rights and gender equality, especially for Black women. She's 42 00:04:04,497 --> 00:04:07,737 Speaker 1: a lawyer and an educator and she spent the last 43 00:04:07,817 --> 00:04:11,937 Speaker 1: thirty years working on her new book, Believing, and I 44 00:04:11,977 --> 00:04:14,857 Speaker 1: get to chat with her about that process and why 45 00:04:14,897 --> 00:04:20,777 Speaker 1: that book is so important right now, Professor Hill is 46 00:04:20,777 --> 00:04:24,337 Speaker 1: determined to use her platform and her own experiences to 47 00:04:24,457 --> 00:04:29,857 Speaker 1: help the most vulnerable victims of gender based violence. We'll 48 00:04:29,897 --> 00:04:33,817 Speaker 1: be talking about believing women when they are brave enough 49 00:04:33,857 --> 00:04:44,497 Speaker 1: to come forward and speak their truth. By the way, Glory, 50 00:04:44,577 --> 00:04:48,417 Speaker 1: I was gonna wear my T shirt, so I can't 51 00:04:48,457 --> 00:04:51,057 Speaker 1: remember where I got it, but I did get the 52 00:04:51,377 --> 00:04:54,697 Speaker 1: black Girl Read T shirt and I've got to wear it. 53 00:04:55,617 --> 00:04:58,177 Speaker 1: But you know how things are. When you get dressed, 54 00:04:58,217 --> 00:05:02,697 Speaker 1: you gotta get ready. It's all good. God, I'm so 55 00:05:02,937 --> 00:05:06,097 Speaker 1: so excited to meet you again and have you on 56 00:05:06,137 --> 00:05:09,577 Speaker 1: the podcast, and congratulations on your amazing book. This is 57 00:05:09,857 --> 00:05:13,057 Speaker 1: I have it all a highlighted here. It's so phenomenal. 58 00:05:13,217 --> 00:05:16,897 Speaker 1: Thank you. Why did you decide to write this book now? 59 00:05:17,617 --> 00:05:20,777 Speaker 1: And what were you hoping your audience and readers would 60 00:05:20,817 --> 00:05:25,217 Speaker 1: take away from it? Wow? First of all, I had 61 00:05:25,257 --> 00:05:28,577 Speaker 1: been working on the ideas for the book and the 62 00:05:28,617 --> 00:05:32,137 Speaker 1: things that were brought out in the pandemic inequalities and 63 00:05:32,217 --> 00:05:38,777 Speaker 1: inequities and vulnerabilities including that more people were vulnerable to 64 00:05:39,297 --> 00:05:42,937 Speaker 1: violence because they were in their homes. All of those 65 00:05:42,937 --> 00:05:45,737 Speaker 1: things kind of came together, and I knew that I 66 00:05:45,737 --> 00:05:48,777 Speaker 1: had to write a book. I knew that gender, race 67 00:05:48,897 --> 00:05:51,617 Speaker 1: violence was one of those things that we desperately needed 68 00:05:51,657 --> 00:05:55,337 Speaker 1: to address. And what I wanted people to take away 69 00:05:55,577 --> 00:05:59,257 Speaker 1: was this sense of urgency for addressing the problem. That 70 00:05:59,657 --> 00:06:02,217 Speaker 1: it wasn't a problem that just was going to go 71 00:06:02,257 --> 00:06:04,457 Speaker 1: away on its own. It wasn't going to go away 72 00:06:04,497 --> 00:06:08,377 Speaker 1: because a new generation would come along and resolve it. 73 00:06:08,377 --> 00:06:11,897 Speaker 1: It wasn't a problem that was to go away because 74 00:06:12,097 --> 00:06:16,857 Speaker 1: of some minor fixes. The problem was much more complex 75 00:06:17,497 --> 00:06:22,057 Speaker 1: and deserve complex solutions. Third thing that I wanted people 76 00:06:22,137 --> 00:06:25,297 Speaker 1: to understand is that it is a larger problem than 77 00:06:25,377 --> 00:06:29,697 Speaker 1: one behavior or a few bad apples out there that 78 00:06:29,777 --> 00:06:33,817 Speaker 1: we read about it. It's really an everyday problem as 79 00:06:33,897 --> 00:06:39,457 Speaker 1: well as an astonishing series of egregious problems, and so 80 00:06:39,697 --> 00:06:42,097 Speaker 1: I wanted people to understand that it was real and 81 00:06:42,217 --> 00:06:45,577 Speaker 1: part of their lives or part of the lives of 82 00:06:45,737 --> 00:06:48,697 Speaker 1: people who they know and they care about. As I 83 00:06:48,737 --> 00:06:52,577 Speaker 1: was reading it, it hit me that every chapter it 84 00:06:52,657 --> 00:06:56,177 Speaker 1: feels like a lifetime of material. It feels just like 85 00:06:56,217 --> 00:07:00,377 Speaker 1: I'm reading your history and your testimony, and not only 86 00:07:01,417 --> 00:07:03,817 Speaker 1: am I processing all of that, but I also see 87 00:07:03,857 --> 00:07:06,857 Speaker 1: just like the light that you have for your community 88 00:07:07,177 --> 00:07:11,697 Speaker 1: and for the next generation, you know, and like thinking 89 00:07:11,737 --> 00:07:15,217 Speaker 1: about who you were in nineteen ninety one, in that 90 00:07:15,337 --> 00:07:19,097 Speaker 1: coming full circle and seeing everything that's happened. What does 91 00:07:19,097 --> 00:07:23,657 Speaker 1: that feel like? Well, first of all, it's it's feels 92 00:07:23,897 --> 00:07:26,577 Speaker 1: probably pretty odd, because, as I explained in the book, 93 00:07:26,737 --> 00:07:30,177 Speaker 1: I tend to think of myself as a very private person, 94 00:07:31,177 --> 00:07:36,617 Speaker 1: and so with that really richness reflecting on my own 95 00:07:36,737 --> 00:07:40,977 Speaker 1: life on me, it's something that I have a hard 96 00:07:40,977 --> 00:07:45,057 Speaker 1: time really doing. But I did want for people to 97 00:07:45,657 --> 00:07:51,097 Speaker 1: understand in getting their stories and telling them that I 98 00:07:51,177 --> 00:07:55,337 Speaker 1: was sharing some of myself too, that people have been 99 00:07:55,417 --> 00:08:00,257 Speaker 1: so generous and sharing their feelings that it was just 100 00:08:00,377 --> 00:08:04,657 Speaker 1: important for me to share some of my own sense 101 00:08:04,697 --> 00:08:08,777 Speaker 1: of who I am and to help them to understand 102 00:08:08,817 --> 00:08:12,617 Speaker 1: that what I had experienced, while it's never the same 103 00:08:12,657 --> 00:08:16,417 Speaker 1: as what other people experience, was very real in my life, 104 00:08:16,417 --> 00:08:20,297 Speaker 1: and that I really understood the consequences and I had 105 00:08:20,777 --> 00:08:26,017 Speaker 1: been walking in the steps of people who had been 106 00:08:26,057 --> 00:08:29,657 Speaker 1: abused by individuals or systems in one way or the other, 107 00:08:30,337 --> 00:08:34,097 Speaker 1: and I was trying to be as generous as people 108 00:08:34,177 --> 00:08:38,177 Speaker 1: were to me in my own way and still maintaining 109 00:08:38,177 --> 00:08:41,337 Speaker 1: my own sorts of authenticity of who I am. It's 110 00:08:41,377 --> 00:08:45,017 Speaker 1: hard though, it is challenging, but you definitely feel your 111 00:08:45,057 --> 00:08:48,657 Speaker 1: generosity on the page. That is one thing that really 112 00:08:48,697 --> 00:08:51,977 Speaker 1: shines through. And it made me also think of your 113 00:08:51,977 --> 00:08:56,537 Speaker 1: first book, Speaking Truths of Power. What was the process 114 00:08:56,537 --> 00:08:59,857 Speaker 1: from that book in nineteen ninety seven to this Was 115 00:08:59,897 --> 00:09:03,537 Speaker 1: there a big difference in your writing process? Yeah? Well, 116 00:09:03,777 --> 00:09:07,337 Speaker 1: you know, I call it a thirty year journey because 117 00:09:07,577 --> 00:09:11,257 Speaker 1: there are things that I have come to understand in 118 00:09:11,297 --> 00:09:15,617 Speaker 1: the past thirty years that I wanted to add to 119 00:09:15,657 --> 00:09:21,817 Speaker 1: this book. The process, to me was not only about 120 00:09:21,857 --> 00:09:25,537 Speaker 1: telling about me without letting my ego be too much 121 00:09:25,537 --> 00:09:29,417 Speaker 1: a part of the story, but it was also about 122 00:09:29,457 --> 00:09:33,497 Speaker 1: how do you integrate and the stories of other people 123 00:09:33,497 --> 00:09:38,417 Speaker 1: whose experiences are very different from your own into a narrative, 124 00:09:39,777 --> 00:09:44,657 Speaker 1: and how do you address the skepticism that some people 125 00:09:44,737 --> 00:09:49,137 Speaker 1: have because oh, they want data, so that you want 126 00:09:49,137 --> 00:09:52,617 Speaker 1: to put the data in the book, but you don't 127 00:09:52,617 --> 00:09:56,857 Speaker 1: want the stories to get lost. You don't want the feelings, 128 00:09:56,937 --> 00:10:01,017 Speaker 1: the emotion, the harm, the pain, and in some cases 129 00:10:01,057 --> 00:10:04,857 Speaker 1: the joy to be lost. You know, it's funny. As 130 00:10:04,897 --> 00:10:09,817 Speaker 1: a lawyer, we have to tell stories. We tell stories 131 00:10:09,857 --> 00:10:14,777 Speaker 1: about our clients cases in the courtroom, we tell stories 132 00:10:14,857 --> 00:10:18,537 Speaker 1: when we're teaching. You use hypothetical sometimes and sometimes they're 133 00:10:18,577 --> 00:10:22,297 Speaker 1: real stories. And we learned very early on its lawyers 134 00:10:22,457 --> 00:10:28,697 Speaker 1: that how we tell the story really can't impact what 135 00:10:28,897 --> 00:10:32,417 Speaker 1: people take away from it. In your book, you referenced 136 00:10:32,457 --> 00:10:36,097 Speaker 1: your mentor, Judge Higginbotham, who once said to you, I 137 00:10:36,217 --> 00:10:40,497 Speaker 1: never talk about race without talking about gender equality and 138 00:10:40,657 --> 00:10:43,857 Speaker 1: black women in general. We tend to receive so much 139 00:10:43,897 --> 00:10:47,937 Speaker 1: criticism when we try to tell our stories. How do 140 00:10:48,017 --> 00:10:51,297 Speaker 1: you say the course not losing sight of talking about 141 00:10:51,337 --> 00:10:56,337 Speaker 1: gender equality and race in your work, right? Yes, well, 142 00:10:56,617 --> 00:11:01,337 Speaker 1: it's so intuitive to me because you know, identify, of course, 143 00:11:01,337 --> 00:11:04,457 Speaker 1: both with my gender and with my race. And in 144 00:11:04,537 --> 00:11:07,737 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one, it was very difficult after the Commis 145 00:11:07,857 --> 00:11:13,577 Speaker 1: hearings because I felt so I were being excommunicated from 146 00:11:13,617 --> 00:11:18,697 Speaker 1: the black community, and that was very hurtful. So part 147 00:11:18,697 --> 00:11:22,017 Speaker 1: of the reason I wanted to write this chapter in particular, 148 00:11:22,177 --> 00:11:28,377 Speaker 1: was because I wanted to again put light on some 149 00:11:28,617 --> 00:11:32,657 Speaker 1: of the limitations that we have even coming forward to 150 00:11:32,697 --> 00:11:37,177 Speaker 1: talk about what happens to us, how many limits are 151 00:11:37,177 --> 00:11:40,697 Speaker 1: placed on our ability to talk about our experiences, And 152 00:11:40,817 --> 00:11:42,977 Speaker 1: that was the point of view I was coming from. 153 00:11:43,097 --> 00:11:48,137 Speaker 1: It's like, what can I say that will make it 154 00:11:48,177 --> 00:11:52,457 Speaker 1: easier for people to stop up and to be present 155 00:11:52,737 --> 00:11:59,297 Speaker 1: and to be open about the pain that they've experienced. 156 00:11:59,977 --> 00:12:05,017 Speaker 1: To look at the problem of violence of any type 157 00:12:05,217 --> 00:12:09,217 Speaker 1: simply through one lens means that we're going to lose people, 158 00:12:10,017 --> 00:12:14,097 Speaker 1: that we are not going to hear people. And then 159 00:12:14,257 --> 00:12:18,017 Speaker 1: so then the question is, how can we as a 160 00:12:18,017 --> 00:12:24,097 Speaker 1: community be open to hearing all of those perspectives. How 161 00:12:24,097 --> 00:12:27,177 Speaker 1: do we get rid of this idea that when black 162 00:12:27,217 --> 00:12:32,577 Speaker 1: women tell about their experience it's harmful to the community, 163 00:12:32,657 --> 00:12:36,377 Speaker 1: And how can we get us to the point of 164 00:12:36,817 --> 00:12:43,017 Speaker 1: acknowledging that, in fact, our community cannot be strong if 165 00:12:43,817 --> 00:12:48,777 Speaker 1: over fifty percent of the community can be targeted and 166 00:12:48,857 --> 00:12:53,737 Speaker 1: abused because of how they identify in terms of their 167 00:12:53,777 --> 00:12:57,697 Speaker 1: gender and because they are women, or because they are trans. 168 00:12:58,097 --> 00:13:00,217 Speaker 1: So those are the things that I was thinking about, 169 00:13:00,417 --> 00:13:03,817 Speaker 1: and I don't think that I have all of the answers, 170 00:13:03,857 --> 00:13:07,017 Speaker 1: but what I wanted people to take away is that 171 00:13:07,137 --> 00:13:11,577 Speaker 1: it is in the entire African American community these best 172 00:13:11,737 --> 00:13:16,337 Speaker 1: interest for us to be able to tell about our 173 00:13:16,417 --> 00:13:19,417 Speaker 1: pay because that's the only way that we are going 174 00:13:19,497 --> 00:13:24,097 Speaker 1: to get to solutions. I agree. One when it comes 175 00:13:24,137 --> 00:13:30,817 Speaker 1: to this level of vulnerability and being open to share 176 00:13:30,817 --> 00:13:33,977 Speaker 1: the difficulties. I've experienced it in my own life, not 177 00:13:34,097 --> 00:13:37,857 Speaker 1: being able to tell my full story and feeling that restriction. 178 00:13:38,337 --> 00:13:40,577 Speaker 1: And when you can tell your story, it's such a 179 00:13:40,577 --> 00:13:42,777 Speaker 1: liberating feeling. But it's not only you, it's like the 180 00:13:42,817 --> 00:13:45,377 Speaker 1: people you encounter. It's your family, it's your friends, your 181 00:13:45,457 --> 00:13:49,177 Speaker 1: larger community. It actually shows them that it's possible. And 182 00:13:49,337 --> 00:13:51,497 Speaker 1: I feel like that is the one thing your book 183 00:13:51,537 --> 00:13:55,177 Speaker 1: Believing does. It just gives us another level of possibility 184 00:13:55,737 --> 00:13:58,577 Speaker 1: and it presents the questions to us so we can 185 00:13:58,617 --> 00:14:02,857 Speaker 1: talk amongst ourselves. I want to talk to you about 186 00:14:03,057 --> 00:14:07,737 Speaker 1: your experience with the me Too movement and when you 187 00:14:07,857 --> 00:14:10,657 Speaker 1: first encounter those words me too. When you learned about 188 00:14:10,777 --> 00:14:12,937 Speaker 1: Toronto Burke. You write about it in the book, But 189 00:14:13,097 --> 00:14:16,937 Speaker 1: what struck you about it? Were you excited and exhilarated? 190 00:14:17,257 --> 00:14:19,897 Speaker 1: Did you think like it's about time you know that 191 00:14:20,057 --> 00:14:22,777 Speaker 1: these things are meaning knowledge? What was your first reaction 192 00:14:23,177 --> 00:14:25,737 Speaker 1: to the me Too movement? Well? I think I was 193 00:14:25,777 --> 00:14:29,857 Speaker 1: just astonished because it happened so quickly, and you know, 194 00:14:30,017 --> 00:14:35,457 Speaker 1: it was global, and I didn't know about Toronto Burke's 195 00:14:35,457 --> 00:14:40,417 Speaker 1: work beforehand, but I do recognize that it was worked 196 00:14:40,417 --> 00:14:47,777 Speaker 1: by Toronto and many others that allow that Me Too 197 00:14:47,857 --> 00:14:52,857 Speaker 1: movement to happen to afford to become a social media movement, 198 00:14:52,977 --> 00:14:56,977 Speaker 1: where as with her it was her personal movement in 199 00:14:57,297 --> 00:15:01,737 Speaker 1: trying to help young black and brown girls heal. So 200 00:15:02,097 --> 00:15:04,417 Speaker 1: first of all, I thought, you know, this is amazing 201 00:15:04,537 --> 00:15:08,817 Speaker 1: because we see how the seed gets planet, but we 202 00:15:08,897 --> 00:15:12,657 Speaker 1: don't necessarily know when it's to grow and really become 203 00:15:12,777 --> 00:15:17,017 Speaker 1: bigger and involve so many people. And so I was 204 00:15:17,297 --> 00:15:20,777 Speaker 1: very excited about the fact that it was happening. But 205 00:15:20,817 --> 00:15:23,937 Speaker 1: the other part of me says that I think the media, 206 00:15:24,337 --> 00:15:29,857 Speaker 1: in presenting it, initially presented it as the experience of 207 00:15:30,177 --> 00:15:36,297 Speaker 1: white women. In fact, it took off in part because 208 00:15:36,417 --> 00:15:43,257 Speaker 1: many of the women involved were RB Weinstein victims, and 209 00:15:43,577 --> 00:15:48,537 Speaker 1: they were Hollywood stars, and so that became the face 210 00:15:49,097 --> 00:15:52,537 Speaker 1: in some instances. And so I knew that we still 211 00:15:52,577 --> 00:15:55,257 Speaker 1: had a lot of work to do to expand, to 212 00:15:55,377 --> 00:16:00,897 Speaker 1: be inclusive and to understand that what was happening to 213 00:16:01,697 --> 00:16:08,697 Speaker 1: bipart women were working women, low income women. It was 214 00:16:09,017 --> 00:16:15,337 Speaker 1: just as important and should have just as much air 215 00:16:16,017 --> 00:16:19,977 Speaker 1: as an attention as what was happening to the women 216 00:16:20,057 --> 00:16:25,897 Speaker 1: in Hollywood. I know you oversee the Hollywood Commission. He 217 00:16:26,017 --> 00:16:29,097 Speaker 1: talked a little bit about that. Yes, Well, the Hollywood 218 00:16:29,097 --> 00:16:32,857 Speaker 1: Commission came about because a woman named Kathleen Kennedy, who 219 00:16:32,977 --> 00:16:36,537 Speaker 1: is a producer, she's a head of Lucas Films, made 220 00:16:36,577 --> 00:16:42,577 Speaker 1: an announcement after the Me Too movement surface that Hollywood 221 00:16:42,697 --> 00:16:47,337 Speaker 1: needed some kind of commission that would build the standards 222 00:16:47,417 --> 00:16:52,057 Speaker 1: for treatment of the abuse that was made evident by 223 00:16:52,097 --> 00:16:58,577 Speaker 1: me Too. So she and Anina Shaw, who is an 224 00:16:58,577 --> 00:17:02,897 Speaker 1: attorney in Hollywood and a Lambrita caper Klein Biden meed 225 00:17:03,137 --> 00:17:05,937 Speaker 1: to join as the chair of this commission. We didn't 226 00:17:05,937 --> 00:17:08,337 Speaker 1: know exactly how we were going to do this work, 227 00:17:08,337 --> 00:17:11,057 Speaker 1: but we knew that we had to bring in people 228 00:17:11,097 --> 00:17:15,297 Speaker 1: from all different sectors in the Hollywood community, because this 229 00:17:15,817 --> 00:17:19,297 Speaker 1: was not just an individual problem, or it wasn't even 230 00:17:19,337 --> 00:17:23,857 Speaker 1: just a behavioral problem. It was an industry wide problem 231 00:17:24,417 --> 00:17:29,977 Speaker 1: that had historical routes add that had been built into 232 00:17:30,097 --> 00:17:33,177 Speaker 1: the structures the way people were hired and the way 233 00:17:33,217 --> 00:17:37,737 Speaker 1: people got top billing, and so we knew that we 234 00:17:37,777 --> 00:17:41,977 Speaker 1: needed just about every segment of the industry, or as 235 00:17:42,057 --> 00:17:44,617 Speaker 1: much as we could get them represented on the commission. 236 00:17:44,897 --> 00:17:48,177 Speaker 1: And it's long been my theory that if you can 237 00:17:48,257 --> 00:17:53,177 Speaker 1: provide equity, and you can provide safety and protections for 238 00:17:53,537 --> 00:17:56,737 Speaker 1: the most vulnerable, then the rest of the populations are 239 00:17:56,737 --> 00:17:59,497 Speaker 1: going to be taken care of. Yes. And so one 240 00:17:59,497 --> 00:18:01,497 Speaker 1: of the things that we have done is to do 241 00:18:01,577 --> 00:18:05,537 Speaker 1: a survey of Hollywood workers to know and learn who 242 00:18:05,657 --> 00:18:09,097 Speaker 1: are the most vulnerable. There is a lot of work 243 00:18:09,177 --> 00:18:12,737 Speaker 1: going on, and I think it is that kind of 244 00:18:12,777 --> 00:18:18,337 Speaker 1: work that will ultimately change the behavior and the culture 245 00:18:18,537 --> 00:18:22,977 Speaker 1: and the structures that cause people to be harassed and 246 00:18:23,217 --> 00:18:44,457 Speaker 1: discriminated against. I'm Glory Adam and this is well read 247 00:18:44,537 --> 00:18:48,537 Speaker 1: black Girl. Today I'm speaking with Professor Anita Hill about 248 00:18:48,577 --> 00:19:02,937 Speaker 1: her recent book Believing. I want to get back into Believing, 249 00:19:03,057 --> 00:19:06,737 Speaker 1: because everything that you're saying is about like resources and 250 00:19:06,777 --> 00:19:11,137 Speaker 1: like execution and ways to really take these ideas and 251 00:19:11,217 --> 00:19:14,257 Speaker 1: theories and put them into practice. And I want to 252 00:19:14,297 --> 00:19:18,017 Speaker 1: talk about the practice of writing for you. Was there 253 00:19:18,097 --> 00:19:21,977 Speaker 1: a particular chapter or was there a moment as you 254 00:19:22,017 --> 00:19:25,497 Speaker 1: were writing this that you felt a breakthrough or what 255 00:19:25,617 --> 00:19:29,017 Speaker 1: moments really made you feel proud of this work. Well, 256 00:19:29,377 --> 00:19:33,697 Speaker 1: one of the places where I did it initially was 257 00:19:34,657 --> 00:19:39,177 Speaker 1: in the chapter about what's happening in our schools to children? 258 00:19:40,097 --> 00:19:44,897 Speaker 1: When I read it at the end, I said to myself, 259 00:19:45,377 --> 00:19:49,697 Speaker 1: if we read no other chapter, please read this. If 260 00:19:49,737 --> 00:19:53,097 Speaker 1: people are saying, you know, where do we start and 261 00:19:53,217 --> 00:19:56,457 Speaker 1: they have to pick one place, let's start with children 262 00:19:56,937 --> 00:20:01,537 Speaker 1: because they are the most vulnerable, and they're so vulnerable 263 00:20:01,697 --> 00:20:06,497 Speaker 1: to the pain and the harassment and the taunting and 264 00:20:06,977 --> 00:20:11,777 Speaker 1: just us your brutality, the physical brutality as well as 265 00:20:11,777 --> 00:20:15,537 Speaker 1: the emotional and psychological based on who they are. That's 266 00:20:15,577 --> 00:20:19,137 Speaker 1: where we, I think, began to see the most damaging 267 00:20:19,177 --> 00:20:24,697 Speaker 1: behavior where it can continue lifelong. And so if you 268 00:20:24,777 --> 00:20:27,377 Speaker 1: had to pick one and you had to do away 269 00:20:27,417 --> 00:20:31,337 Speaker 1: with all of the others, that would be it, because 270 00:20:31,377 --> 00:20:35,217 Speaker 1: that's where the urgency is. And so I guess that 271 00:20:35,377 --> 00:20:39,017 Speaker 1: was the chapter I look at and said, this is 272 00:20:39,097 --> 00:20:43,417 Speaker 1: why the book was worth writing. I love that, and 273 00:20:44,297 --> 00:20:47,857 Speaker 1: I know we share a common love for Paul Murray, 274 00:20:49,337 --> 00:20:52,897 Speaker 1: and I think she is so iconic and I want 275 00:20:52,977 --> 00:20:56,137 Speaker 1: more folks to know about her work and her poetry 276 00:20:57,137 --> 00:20:59,537 Speaker 1: and just her life. Her life is just so outstanding. 277 00:20:59,897 --> 00:21:03,857 Speaker 1: And there was a poem that you had referenced, hope 278 00:21:03,937 --> 00:21:06,897 Speaker 1: is a song and a weary throat that I wanted 279 00:21:07,017 --> 00:21:11,377 Speaker 1: to just read two lines of the last stanza, give 280 00:21:11,417 --> 00:21:14,297 Speaker 1: me a song of hope and love in a Brown 281 00:21:14,337 --> 00:21:18,617 Speaker 1: Girl's heart to hear it. Can you tell us how 282 00:21:18,817 --> 00:21:22,017 Speaker 1: she inspired you and if there are any other writers 283 00:21:22,057 --> 00:21:25,257 Speaker 1: like her that give you inspiration or hope or just 284 00:21:25,377 --> 00:21:28,577 Speaker 1: a creative surge. Yeah. I mean, she was so bold 285 00:21:28,977 --> 00:21:35,417 Speaker 1: about her ideas and her intelligence. She never tried to 286 00:21:35,497 --> 00:21:43,097 Speaker 1: hide how smart she was, and she was bold about 287 00:21:43,897 --> 00:21:47,897 Speaker 1: making sure that she put their intelligence to good use 288 00:21:49,737 --> 00:21:52,577 Speaker 1: in terms of the things she cared about, which was 289 00:21:53,777 --> 00:21:59,377 Speaker 1: racial equality and gender equality. But she was also very 290 00:21:59,417 --> 00:22:03,857 Speaker 1: bold about who she was at a time when we 291 00:22:03,937 --> 00:22:10,097 Speaker 1: really weren't having conversations about people being trans the idea 292 00:22:10,177 --> 00:22:19,257 Speaker 1: that she had thought very carefully about her identity and 293 00:22:19,577 --> 00:22:23,177 Speaker 1: was certain that she was born in the wrong body 294 00:22:23,257 --> 00:22:26,057 Speaker 1: and was certain that she was going to do whatever 295 00:22:26,137 --> 00:22:30,857 Speaker 1: she could to change that to correct that, and you know, 296 00:22:30,977 --> 00:22:36,017 Speaker 1: tried um to get medical attention to help produce so um. 297 00:22:37,737 --> 00:22:41,017 Speaker 1: But I think it was it was because she was 298 00:22:41,217 --> 00:22:44,737 Speaker 1: just so certain about what she had to offer the 299 00:22:44,817 --> 00:22:49,177 Speaker 1: world and she wanted to be able to do it 300 00:22:49,257 --> 00:22:55,097 Speaker 1: as her authentic self. And I take that away from 301 00:22:55,177 --> 00:22:59,417 Speaker 1: her story because it's just so impressive if you think 302 00:22:59,497 --> 00:23:02,337 Speaker 1: of all of the challenges that she faced and spaced 303 00:23:02,377 --> 00:23:05,137 Speaker 1: and and the way she just went after them. I mean, 304 00:23:05,217 --> 00:23:10,337 Speaker 1: she she challenged a Philip Randolph, who was like the 305 00:23:10,457 --> 00:23:14,057 Speaker 1: deal of the civil rights movement. Before there was a 306 00:23:14,097 --> 00:23:19,817 Speaker 1: Martin Luther King, there was a Philip Randolph and she yeah, 307 00:23:19,857 --> 00:23:25,857 Speaker 1: oh yeah, she challenged his sexism at a time when 308 00:23:26,537 --> 00:23:29,057 Speaker 1: you know, in the March on Washington he had excluded 309 00:23:29,297 --> 00:23:33,417 Speaker 1: women from speaking roles. There are so many more Tony 310 00:23:33,497 --> 00:23:37,977 Speaker 1: Morrison what I wrote believing as I was putting the 311 00:23:38,057 --> 00:23:42,497 Speaker 1: other proposal that she died, and I was on an 312 00:23:42,537 --> 00:23:47,137 Speaker 1: airplane and I saw a documentary about her, and it 313 00:23:47,217 --> 00:23:49,657 Speaker 1: was so clarifying in terms of who she was. And 314 00:23:49,697 --> 00:23:53,337 Speaker 1: the real takeaway from that was intentionality. I knew I 315 00:23:53,337 --> 00:23:57,177 Speaker 1: could never match her voice in terms of her writing, 316 00:23:57,617 --> 00:24:02,377 Speaker 1: but I did try to channel her spirit in terms 317 00:24:02,417 --> 00:24:08,817 Speaker 1: of really honing my own voice to polishing it so 318 00:24:08,937 --> 00:24:14,217 Speaker 1: that I could be clear in writing believing. So those 319 00:24:14,257 --> 00:24:18,457 Speaker 1: are two people, two writers that really influenced me for 320 00:24:18,577 --> 00:24:22,457 Speaker 1: different reasons. Again, there's there's just so much beautiful information 321 00:24:22,497 --> 00:24:25,617 Speaker 1: in this book. What was your research process, like, how 322 00:24:25,657 --> 00:24:29,257 Speaker 1: did you like, curate and put the book together. Well, 323 00:24:29,417 --> 00:24:34,737 Speaker 1: I had a general outline of every chapter, but you know, 324 00:24:34,897 --> 00:24:40,937 Speaker 1: as a teacher, we're always researching. So I had stories 325 00:24:40,937 --> 00:24:43,857 Speaker 1: that I plugged in. I had research that I pugged in. 326 00:24:44,377 --> 00:24:49,057 Speaker 1: But I was constantly to the end, always trying to 327 00:24:49,177 --> 00:24:52,577 Speaker 1: verify and confirm and refine the points that I wanted 328 00:24:52,577 --> 00:24:58,177 Speaker 1: to make with my own thinking, but with the thinking 329 00:24:58,217 --> 00:25:05,817 Speaker 1: of others, and so the process was really iterative. When 330 00:25:05,817 --> 00:25:08,377 Speaker 1: did I finished writing the book? I finished writing the 331 00:25:08,457 --> 00:25:12,537 Speaker 1: book when I put the last period on. The sentence 332 00:25:13,457 --> 00:25:16,817 Speaker 1: was I didn't finish run chapter. I mean I was 333 00:25:16,897 --> 00:25:20,537 Speaker 1: always going back to chapters to make sure that I 334 00:25:20,577 --> 00:25:24,217 Speaker 1: had it right and to make sure that the chapters 335 00:25:24,297 --> 00:25:27,857 Speaker 1: fit together. I didn't write a chapter and then put 336 00:25:27,897 --> 00:25:31,457 Speaker 1: that away. I was constantly going back to them and 337 00:25:31,657 --> 00:25:35,897 Speaker 1: reconciling things. But I'm also I have to say I 338 00:25:36,457 --> 00:25:41,657 Speaker 1: was a completely messy writer, and so I had brought 339 00:25:41,697 --> 00:25:45,577 Speaker 1: on someone who helped me edit my mess, cleaned up 340 00:25:45,617 --> 00:25:49,657 Speaker 1: my mess, and that was that was definitely a part 341 00:25:49,737 --> 00:25:54,577 Speaker 1: of what allowed me to get the book completed, but 342 00:25:54,697 --> 00:25:58,097 Speaker 1: the research. There was some research that I had helped 343 00:25:58,137 --> 00:26:00,577 Speaker 1: with in the past, but when it came down to 344 00:26:00,657 --> 00:26:04,657 Speaker 1: writing it, I did most of the research. And there 345 00:26:04,817 --> 00:26:08,337 Speaker 1: is a lot in there. Because the thing that I 346 00:26:08,417 --> 00:26:11,737 Speaker 1: wanted to be intentional about was I didn't want anybody 347 00:26:12,057 --> 00:26:15,017 Speaker 1: to walk away and say, oh, you know, she's just 348 00:26:15,097 --> 00:26:19,097 Speaker 1: talking about herself. These are just her ideas. There's no evidence, 349 00:26:19,137 --> 00:26:22,937 Speaker 1: there's no logic, and I wanted it to all come together. 350 00:26:24,017 --> 00:26:26,417 Speaker 1: And even though I knew there'll be criticisms, it was 351 00:26:26,497 --> 00:26:29,777 Speaker 1: just important that I have all of it. Maybe that's 352 00:26:29,977 --> 00:26:32,697 Speaker 1: like the lawyer in me, but I wanted to make 353 00:26:32,777 --> 00:26:37,737 Speaker 1: the case as strongly as I could. Yes, I love 354 00:26:37,777 --> 00:26:41,137 Speaker 1: the titles of your books, you know, speaking, Troops of Power, Believing. 355 00:26:41,537 --> 00:26:44,257 Speaker 1: They just leave such a like a strong impact on 356 00:26:44,337 --> 00:26:47,937 Speaker 1: the reader, and you can't forget those titles and the past. 357 00:26:47,977 --> 00:26:50,857 Speaker 1: You've said, the title believing comes from your inherent belief 358 00:26:50,897 --> 00:26:54,537 Speaker 1: that we deserve better. Our families, our colleagues, our institutions 359 00:26:54,537 --> 00:26:57,497 Speaker 1: deserve better. What is better? Can you tell us what 360 00:26:57,657 --> 00:27:00,897 Speaker 1: better looks like for you and for our communities. Well, 361 00:27:00,977 --> 00:27:07,217 Speaker 1: better is for us to develop a response to the 362 00:27:07,337 --> 00:27:12,457 Speaker 1: violence that so many people are experienced that attempts to 363 00:27:12,657 --> 00:27:16,417 Speaker 1: prevent it. Right now, what we have is a system 364 00:27:16,617 --> 00:27:20,737 Speaker 1: that says, okay, here's how we respond. If you can 365 00:27:20,777 --> 00:27:25,617 Speaker 1: get through the gauntlet of reporting, we can change our 366 00:27:25,657 --> 00:27:31,337 Speaker 1: culture and our thinking. I believe to eliminate this problem 367 00:27:31,337 --> 00:27:37,497 Speaker 1: from happening. Prevention should be our goal, not waiting until 368 00:27:37,537 --> 00:27:43,137 Speaker 1: people are harmed to say, let's think about what the 369 00:27:43,177 --> 00:27:47,857 Speaker 1: solution will be to their harm. Better would be for 370 00:27:48,497 --> 00:27:52,697 Speaker 1: there to be a national commitment to that prevention, where 371 00:27:52,817 --> 00:27:56,697 Speaker 1: we actually have a president that says that this is 372 00:27:56,737 --> 00:28:01,457 Speaker 1: a public issue that I want to commit my presidency too. 373 00:28:02,337 --> 00:28:05,897 Speaker 1: Doesn't mean that you have to exclude everything else, but this, 374 00:28:06,017 --> 00:28:09,777 Speaker 1: to me is an issue that deserves the thinking at 375 00:28:09,777 --> 00:28:12,977 Speaker 1: the national level. Think about all the ways that our 376 00:28:13,017 --> 00:28:18,577 Speaker 1: institutions are implicated, whether our colleges and universities, or our workforces, 377 00:28:18,777 --> 00:28:23,017 Speaker 1: or our military, even our Congress in the Supreme Court, 378 00:28:23,737 --> 00:28:28,657 Speaker 1: all have been implicated in gender violence issues in ways 379 00:28:28,777 --> 00:28:32,217 Speaker 1: that cause people to have less confidence in our systems. 380 00:28:32,457 --> 00:28:36,057 Speaker 1: I think that's a public crisis. And then finally, better 381 00:28:36,097 --> 00:28:41,257 Speaker 1: would be engaging survivors and victims and solutions, really engaging 382 00:28:41,297 --> 00:28:45,177 Speaker 1: them then beyond having them come and tell about their pain, 383 00:28:46,217 --> 00:28:49,817 Speaker 1: really trusting them and asking them how do we solve this? 384 00:28:50,457 --> 00:28:54,057 Speaker 1: So believing for me was believing that this was the 385 00:28:54,217 --> 00:28:58,817 Speaker 1: right issue to take on and that I had a 386 00:28:58,937 --> 00:29:03,737 Speaker 1: special place in addressing it. Thank you so much. This 387 00:29:03,777 --> 00:29:07,897 Speaker 1: conversation is just so fortifying, and I know everyone listening 388 00:29:07,937 --> 00:29:10,617 Speaker 1: will feel just the love and generosity that you've all 389 00:29:10,737 --> 00:29:14,417 Speaker 1: for us and the tools you've also offered us. You're 390 00:29:14,457 --> 00:29:17,497 Speaker 1: also just so calm. I love like you're just so calm, 391 00:29:17,497 --> 00:29:20,737 Speaker 1: and collectively it's a lawyer in you as well. Do 392 00:29:20,777 --> 00:29:23,377 Speaker 1: you have like a guiding principle that you live by, 393 00:29:23,577 --> 00:29:26,897 Speaker 1: or like something that just gives you, like a mantra 394 00:29:27,217 --> 00:29:29,977 Speaker 1: or something. I would love to hear a Professor Hill, 395 00:29:31,297 --> 00:29:34,497 Speaker 1: because because I just feel like you just wake up 396 00:29:34,737 --> 00:29:39,137 Speaker 1: like assured every day. You just have this energy. Wellow, 397 00:29:39,417 --> 00:29:43,737 Speaker 1: you know I you know, I come from this family 398 00:29:43,777 --> 00:29:46,017 Speaker 1: of thirteen year oldren and growing up on a farm, 399 00:29:46,937 --> 00:29:51,577 Speaker 1: um in Oklahoma. And and and when I'm not when 400 00:29:51,577 --> 00:29:54,577 Speaker 1: I'm talking farm, I'm not talking about you know, one 401 00:29:54,617 --> 00:29:58,737 Speaker 1: hundred thousand acres in big machinery. You know, I'm talking 402 00:29:58,737 --> 00:30:03,857 Speaker 1: about a subsistence farm. UM. I wake up thinking what 403 00:30:03,977 --> 00:30:10,017 Speaker 1: a privilege I have to be able to be alive 404 00:30:10,137 --> 00:30:13,057 Speaker 1: and to be to talk about and to use the 405 00:30:13,137 --> 00:30:18,977 Speaker 1: skills and my energy and time. That's what allows me 406 00:30:19,057 --> 00:30:22,217 Speaker 1: to get up every morning. Um. And it comes from 407 00:30:22,257 --> 00:30:24,377 Speaker 1: a lot of different sources. I've some of it comes 408 00:30:24,417 --> 00:30:26,617 Speaker 1: from the fact that I look at the life that 409 00:30:26,657 --> 00:30:30,257 Speaker 1: my mother had and that her mother had and realize 410 00:30:30,337 --> 00:30:34,057 Speaker 1: how much more that I have and so to honor her. 411 00:30:34,297 --> 00:30:40,577 Speaker 1: And I just feel that you're on the earth for 412 00:30:40,657 --> 00:30:46,257 Speaker 1: a short time and that you have to use that 413 00:30:46,337 --> 00:30:54,897 Speaker 1: time in the surface of others, um, and use what 414 00:30:54,977 --> 00:30:58,177 Speaker 1: has been given to you. And that comes not only 415 00:30:58,177 --> 00:31:00,417 Speaker 1: from my parents, but it comes from my siblings and 416 00:31:00,617 --> 00:31:02,777 Speaker 1: all of the hope and the faith that they have 417 00:31:03,177 --> 00:31:27,697 Speaker 1: in me. And that's that keeps me going. Hello, I'm 418 00:31:27,737 --> 00:31:32,137 Speaker 1: Anita Hill. Thank you for listening to well read black Girl. 419 00:31:40,057 --> 00:31:42,177 Speaker 1: So we're going to do what we like to call 420 00:31:42,617 --> 00:31:47,457 Speaker 1: rapid fire. Oh gosh, I'm so bad with rapid fire up, 421 00:31:47,497 --> 00:31:51,097 Speaker 1: but I'm gonna try. They're fun. They're fun. First one 422 00:31:51,457 --> 00:31:56,097 Speaker 1: is named three items on your desk A light for 423 00:31:57,737 --> 00:32:03,137 Speaker 1: video conference me always there is a padded pencil because 424 00:32:03,337 --> 00:32:05,897 Speaker 1: I don't like I don't like to type everything. I 425 00:32:06,017 --> 00:32:08,377 Speaker 1: like to write things out. It's part of my process, 426 00:32:08,977 --> 00:32:13,937 Speaker 1: and typically a big bottle of water they hydrated. We 427 00:32:14,017 --> 00:32:19,897 Speaker 1: let that. Yes, favorite comic book character. Oh, oh gosh, 428 00:32:19,937 --> 00:32:22,137 Speaker 1: I don't have a favorite character, but let me tell you. 429 00:32:22,377 --> 00:32:26,177 Speaker 1: I was a big fan of Stanley, you know. Oh yeah, 430 00:32:26,257 --> 00:32:30,457 Speaker 1: and I and one of my wishes that Stanley would 431 00:32:30,497 --> 00:32:34,177 Speaker 1: make a comic book character out of me. Oh it's okay. 432 00:32:34,177 --> 00:32:36,737 Speaker 1: So this goes to the next question. It's if you 433 00:32:36,777 --> 00:32:40,537 Speaker 1: were a superhero, what would your superpower be? Oh? I 434 00:32:40,617 --> 00:32:45,177 Speaker 1: have thought about that, and that is we have superheroes 435 00:32:45,257 --> 00:32:49,777 Speaker 1: where they can like look into the future. My superpower 436 00:32:49,897 --> 00:32:53,457 Speaker 1: would be every time that I met someone that I 437 00:32:53,497 --> 00:32:57,697 Speaker 1: would be able to glimpse their past. Oh that's a 438 00:32:57,777 --> 00:33:02,457 Speaker 1: good one. Yeah, because I think if we know their past, 439 00:33:02,857 --> 00:33:07,937 Speaker 1: you understand how they behave and why. Oh that's a 440 00:33:07,937 --> 00:33:09,897 Speaker 1: good one. Oh. I might have to borrow that superpower 441 00:33:09,897 --> 00:33:14,017 Speaker 1: because you know, I encounter some people it's like wow, 442 00:33:14,697 --> 00:33:17,657 Speaker 1: and then then you find out and then about them 443 00:33:17,657 --> 00:33:22,297 Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, now I get it. Sometimes it's 444 00:33:22,297 --> 00:33:27,857 Speaker 1: really late. Okay, that's a really good one. Um, okay, 445 00:33:28,017 --> 00:33:31,097 Speaker 1: this is going to take you back to Oklahoma. I 446 00:33:31,137 --> 00:33:34,457 Speaker 1: want to know about Little Anita. What was your favorite 447 00:33:34,537 --> 00:33:39,937 Speaker 1: game to play at the county fair. Oh well, I 448 00:33:40,057 --> 00:33:42,857 Speaker 1: always got you know, looked at those little things where 449 00:33:42,857 --> 00:33:45,857 Speaker 1: you you're crank, where you're trying to pick off something, 450 00:33:45,977 --> 00:33:48,977 Speaker 1: and that I always felt like this should be you 451 00:33:48,977 --> 00:33:52,457 Speaker 1: should be able to do this mechanically. Uh, And I 452 00:33:52,497 --> 00:33:55,017 Speaker 1: never could. I never was so but that was my 453 00:33:55,097 --> 00:33:59,257 Speaker 1: favorite thing, to try to grab that toy with the 454 00:33:59,297 --> 00:34:02,697 Speaker 1: crank in the inn the inside the box, Yeah, with 455 00:34:02,777 --> 00:34:06,617 Speaker 1: the box. And it never worked, but it was kind 456 00:34:06,617 --> 00:34:11,497 Speaker 1: of fun to always try the last one. So I'm 457 00:34:11,577 --> 00:34:15,897 Speaker 1: curious to hear about your childhood nickname. The only person 458 00:34:15,937 --> 00:34:19,057 Speaker 1: that ever did use a nickname was my father's I 459 00:34:19,097 --> 00:34:22,137 Speaker 1: could said. I was the youngest of thirteen and he 460 00:34:22,537 --> 00:34:25,377 Speaker 1: was perhaps the only person I think of who ever 461 00:34:25,457 --> 00:34:30,777 Speaker 1: called who called me baby girl. So sweet, that's sweet, 462 00:34:30,817 --> 00:34:34,137 Speaker 1: that's sweet. That's the only nickname you need. Yeah, that's 463 00:34:34,137 --> 00:34:43,777 Speaker 1: the only thing I needed. Wait, Anita, before you go, 464 00:34:44,257 --> 00:34:47,577 Speaker 1: you have a podcast of your own coming out soon, right? Yes? 465 00:34:47,777 --> 00:34:52,177 Speaker 1: So well I have a podcast coming and um I 466 00:34:52,217 --> 00:34:55,857 Speaker 1: and I know you have your podcasts and you of 467 00:34:55,897 --> 00:34:59,217 Speaker 1: a generation where you know that's so familiar to you 468 00:34:59,817 --> 00:35:02,217 Speaker 1: From me, I feel a little bit like a dinosaur 469 00:35:03,017 --> 00:35:05,897 Speaker 1: and I'm trying to channel. I'm trying to channel people 470 00:35:05,937 --> 00:35:09,497 Speaker 1: like you, young people, uh, to to really get the 471 00:35:09,817 --> 00:35:12,697 Speaker 1: knack of it. I have a wonderful team. They're they're 472 00:35:12,737 --> 00:35:16,977 Speaker 1: working hard on me. You are doing absolutely wonderful. You listen. 473 00:35:17,177 --> 00:35:18,977 Speaker 1: I just like I just told you, your voice is 474 00:35:19,017 --> 00:35:21,737 Speaker 1: so calming. I think that's like ninety nine percent of it. 475 00:35:21,817 --> 00:35:24,017 Speaker 1: Like get having a good voice when you're you know, 476 00:35:24,097 --> 00:35:27,537 Speaker 1: sharing the stories or listening or interviewing people. Your voice 477 00:35:27,577 --> 00:35:29,777 Speaker 1: is very calming. It's like very soothing. I know when 478 00:35:29,817 --> 00:35:32,577 Speaker 1: I listen to podcasts, that's what I'm looking for. Like, 479 00:35:32,617 --> 00:35:35,337 Speaker 1: I like, like the richness of someone's voice. I don't 480 00:35:35,377 --> 00:35:39,937 Speaker 1: know how my voice. Oh, it's great. That's great. This 481 00:35:40,177 --> 00:35:42,297 Speaker 1: is like I think some people were made for it. 482 00:35:42,377 --> 00:35:45,417 Speaker 1: But so that's very exciting for me. I'm going to 483 00:35:45,497 --> 00:35:49,257 Speaker 1: continue to do um to work with the Hollywood Commission 484 00:35:49,337 --> 00:35:53,417 Speaker 1: you've talked about. I continue to teach, and and I'm 485 00:35:53,537 --> 00:35:57,257 Speaker 1: very proud, if I must say so, myself of the 486 00:35:57,257 --> 00:35:59,777 Speaker 1: book Believing, and I just want to thank you and 487 00:36:00,457 --> 00:36:03,857 Speaker 1: all of your readers. We are proud too. It's so 488 00:36:03,977 --> 00:36:07,297 Speaker 1: it's so wonderful. I mean, I literally there's so many 489 00:36:07,377 --> 00:36:09,657 Speaker 1: highlights in this book. I wish I could like show you. 490 00:36:09,857 --> 00:36:12,777 Speaker 1: It's just it's like it's in terms of being a 491 00:36:12,817 --> 00:36:16,377 Speaker 1: memoir and a resource in just a history. It's like 492 00:36:16,457 --> 00:36:19,657 Speaker 1: living history. And I'm going to tell you that I 493 00:36:19,697 --> 00:36:22,497 Speaker 1: don't take any of that for granted. I do feel, 494 00:36:22,617 --> 00:36:24,897 Speaker 1: like I said, I'm quite privileged to be where I 495 00:36:24,977 --> 00:36:27,977 Speaker 1: am today because I know that there were so many 496 00:36:27,977 --> 00:36:32,977 Speaker 1: people that would never have thought that I would be 497 00:36:33,777 --> 00:36:38,097 Speaker 1: even known. And in fact, I had one journalist say, oh, 498 00:36:38,217 --> 00:36:40,857 Speaker 1: you know, in six months, nobody will remember your name. 499 00:36:41,937 --> 00:36:46,297 Speaker 1: They were wrong, they were wrong, So thank you, thank you. 500 00:36:59,697 --> 00:37:03,857 Speaker 1: Speaking your truth, especially as a victim of gender based violence, 501 00:37:04,137 --> 00:37:07,537 Speaker 1: isn't easy. It's even harder for black women if the 502 00:37:07,617 --> 00:37:11,257 Speaker 1: person being accused is a black man. About one in 503 00:37:11,337 --> 00:37:15,057 Speaker 1: three women experienced sexual or physical violence in their lifetime. 504 00:37:15,737 --> 00:37:17,817 Speaker 1: We need to keep talking to one another in the 505 00:37:17,857 --> 00:37:20,897 Speaker 1: black community and to be open to having these tough 506 00:37:20,937 --> 00:37:26,657 Speaker 1: conversations in order to be stronger together. Thanks to Anita Hill, 507 00:37:27,097 --> 00:37:31,857 Speaker 1: we are a step closer. Speaking with Anita Hill, I'm 508 00:37:31,897 --> 00:37:34,457 Speaker 1: reminded of what a big impact she had on my 509 00:37:34,537 --> 00:37:37,497 Speaker 1: own life as a young person, seeing her on TV 510 00:37:38,097 --> 00:37:43,777 Speaker 1: speaking to the entire country, becoming a heroine for so many. 511 00:37:43,857 --> 00:37:46,937 Speaker 1: Like Professor Hill said, these issues are larger than just 512 00:37:47,017 --> 00:37:50,737 Speaker 1: her one story. Taking them on is about all of 513 00:37:50,857 --> 00:37:56,857 Speaker 1: us read believing our thirty year journey to end gender violence. 514 00:37:57,177 --> 00:38:18,737 Speaker 1: It's out now. Well Read black Girl is a production 515 00:38:18,857 --> 00:38:22,417 Speaker 1: of Pushkin Industries. It is written and hosted by me 516 00:38:22,897 --> 00:38:27,177 Speaker 1: Glory Dam and produced by Scher Vincent and Brittany Brown. 517 00:38:28,537 --> 00:38:32,857 Speaker 1: Our associate editor is Keishall Williams. Our engineer is Amanda 518 00:38:32,977 --> 00:38:37,377 Speaker 1: ka Wang, and our showrunner is Sasha Matthias. Special thanks 519 00:38:37,417 --> 00:38:42,657 Speaker 1: this week to Vicki Merrick. Our executive producers are Mia 520 00:38:42,817 --> 00:38:47,577 Speaker 1: Lobell and Leet Hall Molad. At Pushkin thanks to Heather Fane, 521 00:38:47,817 --> 00:38:55,017 Speaker 1: Carly Migliori, Jason Gambrel, Julia Barton, Jen Goera, John Schnars, 522 00:38:55,617 --> 00:38:59,057 Speaker 1: and Jacob Wiseberg. You can find me on Twitter and 523 00:38:59,137 --> 00:39:02,297 Speaker 1: Instagram at Well Read black Girl. You can find Pushkin 524 00:39:02,377 --> 00:39:05,777 Speaker 1: and all social media platforms at pushkin Pods, and you 525 00:39:05,817 --> 00:39:09,537 Speaker 1: can sign up for our newsletter at pushkin dot Fm. 526 00:39:09,577 --> 00:39:12,497 Speaker 1: If you love this show and others from Pushkin Industry, 527 00:39:12,857 --> 00:39:17,017 Speaker 1: consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast 528 00:39:17,057 --> 00:39:21,297 Speaker 1: subscription that offers bonus content and uninterrupted listening for four 529 00:39:21,497 --> 00:39:24,897 Speaker 1: ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple 530 00:39:24,977 --> 00:39:29,177 Speaker 1: podcast subscriptions, and if you're already a subscriber, make sure 531 00:39:29,217 --> 00:39:32,737 Speaker 1: to check out my exclusive Bookmark series on Pushkin Plus. 532 00:39:32,737 --> 00:39:36,777 Speaker 1: Starting on February eighteenth. You'll hear extended interviews with book 533 00:39:36,777 --> 00:39:40,977 Speaker 1: club members, bookstore owners, and more. And do you get 534 00:39:40,977 --> 00:39:43,737 Speaker 1: to hear what's on my mind, What's on my radar, 535 00:39:44,257 --> 00:39:47,297 Speaker 1: and of course, what's on my reading list? Each week. 536 00:39:48,017 --> 00:39:53,217 Speaker 1: To find more pushkin podcasts, listen on iHeartRadio, app, Apple Podcasts, 537 00:39:53,337 --> 00:39:55,017 Speaker 1: or wherever you like to listen