1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: Everybody. It's Bill Courtney again with an army of normal folks. 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,959 Speaker 1: Let's continue with part two of our conversation with Officer 3 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 1: Tommy Norman right after these brief messages from our generals sponsors. 4 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: It's an overused phrase, but everybody talks about how we 5 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:35,160 Speaker 1: got to get into quote, community policing. But you don't 6 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: need programs for community policing. You don't need you don't 7 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: need a whole bunch of federal money for community policing. 8 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: You just need a heart and have the will and 9 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: the effort to get out of your car and walk 10 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: around in the community that you're policing and build relationships. 11 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: And I mean that sounds to me like that's exactly 12 00:00:58,080 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: what you do. 13 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 2: Not just me, but there's a officers all across the 14 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 2: United States that do great work just because they care 15 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 2: about people. And some of my closest friends are doing 16 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 2: great work in other communities outside of where I work. 17 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 2: Community policing. That term is used pretty loosely in my opinion. 18 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 2: Good explain that straighten me out. What is community policing? 19 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 2: To people that are listening? Is community policing driving up 20 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 2: and down the street for eight hours with your windows 21 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 2: rolled up and disengaging from the community. 22 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: No. 23 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 2: Community policing is not just a wave. Early in my 24 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,759 Speaker 2: career I thought a wave and a honk was community policing. 25 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,759 Speaker 1: Did you do that? I did? Oh, the guys, yeah, 26 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: nice guy, and the guys hand out. Yeah, that's it, 27 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: and you'd probably get away back and the day if 28 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 1: you passed on by, they'd be like, screw that guy. 29 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 2: Yes, so honk in a wave, Okay, I'm making a difference, 30 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 2: not really parked that police car. And this is what 31 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 2: happened when I started getting out and meeting families. 32 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: Is if three steps, if. 33 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 2: You can make it under someone's front lawn, that's just 34 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: your front line is probably sacred. My front line is 35 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 2: pretty sacred. I'm on their front lawn, They're okay with it. 36 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 2: Next step is make it onto their front porch. You're 37 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 2: sitting on their front porch, even more of a sacred area, 38 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 2: and you get invited into their living room and their 39 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 2: kitchen for lunch or breakfast or dinner. 40 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: As a police officer on shift. 41 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 2: On shift, I've had many good candid yams and some 42 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 2: Thanksgiving dinner, a Coke zero, which is my drink of choice. 43 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: And holding on shift, you would developing up relationships, so 44 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 1: they'd say, come in and have lunch with me. 45 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, and how many If you see a police officer 46 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 2: walking into a house, yeah, there's something gonna You're not 47 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 2: getting ready to sit down and have a big plate 48 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 2: of food. You're usually getting ready to walk out with 49 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 2: someone in handcuffs. But now, like I said, front yard first, 50 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 2: baby steps front porch, and then come on in your family. 51 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 2: Now we're going to feed you. 52 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: I mean, it's that due to your heart. My heart 53 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: wants to explode. 54 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 2: But that makes my job easier because if you have 55 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 2: a police officer, a group of officers that's assigned to 56 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 2: your neighborhood and they're now your family, you probably want 57 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 2: to think twice before you break the law. 58 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: And if someone is acting a fool, you're not afraid 59 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: to tell the police anymore. 60 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 2: Absolutely the guy in two thousand and five, that's a 61 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 2: massive example. But then if you have a homicide of shooting, 62 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 2: gets what they're gonna come to first, They're going to 63 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 2: come to that officer that they trust. 64 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: Now that makes complete sense. My lover yard sits in 65 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: North Memphis, which is rough. North Memphis is a very, 66 00:03:53,080 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: very very rough area. Lots of poverty, lots of hopelessness. 67 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: A lot of people have done a lot of work 68 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: here to try to make it better. And it is 69 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: better now, and it was twenty years ago, but it's 70 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: still rough. In sixty eight, April fourth, nineteen sixty eight, 71 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 1: Memphis was a thriving city. I think it was one 72 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: of the largest fifteen cities in the country back then, 73 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 1: and people today would not think that, but it was. 74 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: But on April fourth, nineteen sixty eight, Martin Luther King 75 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 1: was shot and killed here. And when he was shot 76 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: and killed here, there was looting and rioting. North Memphis 77 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: was particularly hit hard from the looting and rioting. It 78 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:45,679 Speaker 1: was once a really, really, really proud, blue collar, largely 79 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: African American community, and Firestone was here, a huge firestone plant, 80 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: a fifty acre firestone plant. Caterpillar International Harvester had a 81 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: huge plant here DuPont and through the last couple of 82 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 1: years of the sixties and early seventies, because of all 83 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 1: of the racial tension. As a result of that, those 84 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 1: corporations left and what it left was a community with 85 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: a food desert, not many jobs. And from the seventies 86 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: until now, it's just continued to generationally dilapidate and you 87 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: know what comes along with that. So that's what North 88 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 1: Memphis is where my business is. And this is really 89 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: this did not happen long ago. Just a few weeks ago, 90 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: there was a murder on a block less than a 91 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 1: mile from here. Please state I'm not exaggerating when I 92 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: say there were fifteen squad cars out there. There was 93 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 1: a fire truck and ambulance. The CSI van was there, 94 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,279 Speaker 1: and it's right on the main drag of Danny Thomas 95 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 1: and so you could see it and drove by and 96 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: saw there and thought, you know, an other senseless murder. 97 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 1: And then on the way back, the crime tape that 98 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: was on that block had moved. That that was still there. 99 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: But then there was another ten or fifteen police cars 100 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: on the next block with crime tape and the whole scene. 101 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: It's like they just imprinted it. One block over and 102 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: I saw a guy I knew from the neighborhood, and 103 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: I pulled over. I said what happened, and they said, well, 104 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: this guy, he named him, I'm not going to name 105 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: him shot this guy. So I mean, the people in 106 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: the community knew the name of the shooter and knew 107 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: the name of the guy that was shot. And in 108 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: forty five minutes, while all these police are here one 109 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: block away, the guy who shot the first guy got 110 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: shot and he was laying in the street, and that 111 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: guy ran away, and I'm talking cops were one hundred 112 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: yards away, and that guy was now missing, and everybody 113 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: was talking to knew who was shot, the first shooter, 114 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: the first shooter's name, and who shot him, and you 115 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: know who didn't know any of that and probably will 116 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:09,479 Speaker 1: never the thirty cops that were there because nobody in 117 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: the community was willing to talk to him. And I 118 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: always thought, I've thought, you know, that second murder might 119 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: not have ever happened had the community trusted the cops 120 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: enough to tell them what was going on. And I'm 121 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: telling you, the whole neighborhood knew who shot I mean 122 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: the old saying who shot John? They knew, but he 123 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: wasn't anybody going to talk to the police about it. 124 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: And it's because of what you're talking about. They just 125 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: don't trust the police. And I'm sitting here here and 126 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: you're thinking about if the police on this speed had 127 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: developed a relationship with the people in the neighborhood, and 128 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: it'd sit at their kitchen tables having lunch. You know 129 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: that's someone you would say, hey, man, this is what 130 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: happened and you need to get after it before it 131 00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: gets any worse, or something like that. I mean, community 132 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: policing really would work. 133 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, but community policing also, as I mentioned before, is 134 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 2: coming back you. I can't stress this enough for people 135 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 2: out there listening, is that if you're if you're going 136 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 2: to step onto a front line, that doesn't need to 137 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 2: be the first and only time someone sees you. You've got 138 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 2: to keep that commitment. There was a family of three kids, 139 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 2: raised by their mom and their grandmother. 140 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: I got close to them. 141 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 2: I found out during getting to know this family they 142 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 2: love CC's pizza. 143 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: They love CCI's pizza, ce Ce's pizza. So I remember, no, no, 144 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: nothing at all. We've got one back home. Yeah. 145 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 2: So I said a day what I was off and 146 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 2: was gonna go h with permission from the family, take 147 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 2: these kids. 148 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: Out to eat. I show up. 149 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 2: I'm excited because this is one of the first families 150 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 2: that I came in contact with that actually trusted me 151 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 2: outside of the uniform. Knock on the door, Grandma answers 152 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 2: the door. I'm here to take the kids to see 153 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 2: Ce's pizza. 154 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: Well, I'm sorry. Were you on ship? 155 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 2: No, it's off duty, off duty, off duty and civilian clothes. 156 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: Did they know you were coming? Oh, I knew I 157 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: was coming. Yeah. Now I'm here to take the kids 158 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: see se speech. And none of the kids were ready. 159 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 2: Two kids are still sleeping, one of them playing video 160 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 2: games on the couchs and the grandma says Officer Norman. 161 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 2: They did not believe you were coming. So that told 162 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 2: me right there, I've got more work to do. Too 163 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,439 Speaker 2: many kids, too many families, too many communities, have been 164 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,599 Speaker 2: given all these promises, these police officers coming into your neighborhood, 165 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 2: selling you a dream, but they don't come back. 166 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: You got to come back. Brother. It is now time 167 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: for me to invoke the Turkey person's story, because what 168 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: you're saying is exactly the truth. Which is my first 169 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,839 Speaker 1: year at Manassas. Now, when I showed up to Manassas, 170 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: their previous ten years record was four winds and ninety 171 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: six losses. Wow. Yeah, that's a wow, that's slaw. I mean, 172 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,079 Speaker 1: you cannot be I guess you could be worse, but 173 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: not much worse. Right, And there were only seventeen kids. 174 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: On the football team, and I mean they're terrible. And 175 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,679 Speaker 1: halfway through my first season we were three and three, 176 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: and now I think three and three is average, but 177 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 1: when you come from four and ninety six, three and 178 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: three is pretty good. And so all the kids were 179 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:18,679 Speaker 1: buying into the football stuff, yes or no, ser to 180 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: me on the field, listen to what I had to say, 181 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: doing what I told them to do to execute and 182 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: win in football games. When I got to Manassis, it 183 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: became really apparent to me that I was not going 184 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:32,959 Speaker 1: to just coach football, but I was going to have 185 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: to coach character, commitment, integrity, the value of being on time, 186 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: all those basic fundamentals and tenants that well that your 187 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: mom taught you. You know that you'd get laced up 188 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: by the belt if you didn't do, you know, being 189 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 1: respectful to teachers, doing your homework, just basic core values 190 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: that were largely absent. And so I started teaching and 191 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: coaching that too as well football. Well, halfway through the 192 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: season we're three and three, and while the kids are 193 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: yes or no, sir, one hundred percent all in respectful 194 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: with the football stuff, half the team was buying into 195 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: the important stuff. The other half the team, the minute 196 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: football was over there, back in the streets, engaging the 197 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: same kind of destructive behavior that got them to four 198 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:23,959 Speaker 1: wins in ninety six losses in the first place. And 199 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: it was driving me crazy. So I went to my 200 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,959 Speaker 1: guy and I said, Bobo, what do I got to 201 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,199 Speaker 1: do to get that half the team to buy into 202 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 1: the important stuff? Like you're half the team. You know, 203 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: everybody's been respectful on the football field, but the football secondary, 204 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: it's this other stuff that's going to matter in your life. 205 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: And half the you're half the team's buying in and 206 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: I appreciate that. But the other half the team, they're 207 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 1: just not buying in. And Bobo looked at me and said, Coach, 208 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 1: I don't want to hurt your feelings. I said, Bobo, 209 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 1: I'm a grown up man, grew up fat and redheaded, 210 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: and uh, there's not much you can say to me 211 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: that can they can hurt my feeling. I've been through 212 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: that plenty. And he said, real talk, and I said, yes, 213 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: straight talk. I need to understand why that half the 214 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:10,839 Speaker 1: team is not buying into the important stuff, like you're 215 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: half the team. And he looked me dead in the 216 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:13,959 Speaker 1: eyes and he said, Coach, you're trying to figure out 217 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,199 Speaker 1: if you're a Turkey person or not. And I mean, 218 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: I got to tell you sometime, I bet you learned 219 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: a lot of vernacular the first year on your beat 220 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: that you had not heard or known in your life. Well, 221 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: so what I at, manasis a lot of terms of 222 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: minacular and stuff I still use today that I find hilarious. 223 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: But I had not learned what Turkey person meant. I 224 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: looked at Bobo and I said, Bobo, you know what 225 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: are you talking about? And he said, Coach. Every Thanksgiving 226 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: and Christmas, people from where you live pull up into 227 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: our neighborhoods and they got gifts and hams and turkeys, 228 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: and we take them because we ain't got none. But 229 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 1: then they leave and we never see them again. And 230 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: it makes you wonder if they're doing that because they 231 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: really care about us, or they're doing that to make 232 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: themselves feel good. And they let me deadnize. He said, Coach, 233 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: what the hell are you doing down here? Man? And 234 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: when I hear you say you showed up to those 235 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 1: kids door to take them to CC's, their favorite place 236 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 1: to go, which they would be jumping up and down 237 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: crazy for the opportunity to go see C's Pizza and 238 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: they weren't even dressed because they didn't believe you were 239 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: coming back. What people need to understand when they're listening 240 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: to this conversation with us, is that your response, your 241 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: experience with the CC's Pizza and my experience with the 242 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: Turkey person is that after generation and generation of being 243 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: told things and let down, people in these neighborhoods do 244 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: not expect people to come back. They do not expect 245 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 1: people to show up, and they are so conditioned to 246 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 1: to a lack of commitment, there so conditioned to a 247 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: lack of care and love that it's just normal to 248 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: be let down. And if it in parts of our 249 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: society becomes normal for children to be let down by adults, 250 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: why in the hell would we think that they would 251 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: have any respect for him, none at all. 252 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 2: That that CC's Pizza story. We did go to CC's Pizza. 253 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, they got dressed because you were there. They saw okay, 254 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: and that was. 255 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 2: A highlight not just of their day, but I think 256 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 2: of their young life. That number one, he's not here 257 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 2: in his police car, he's not in his uniform. 258 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: No cameras here, no cameras. Ain't nobody doing this to nobody. 259 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: You're not doing it to shed light on what a 260 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: great guy you want. 261 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, And it was just it was a trip 262 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 2: to CCS. We had fun, and you went back home 263 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 2: and Grandma and Mam so thank you. And so that 264 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 2: broke down that barrier. Okay, first of all, I don't 265 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 2: think I'm coming. We're not going to get up and 266 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 2: get ready. He's not going to show up. 267 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: But yeah, because you're just like everybody else who makes 268 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: empty promises. But that's what they're thinking, right, It's what 269 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: I'm saying. 270 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 2: And I can't stress enough that you don't have to 271 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 2: be a Bill Courtney or a Tommy Norman to go 272 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 2: out and make a difference in your community. You can 273 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 2: work at Kroger's or you can show and be consistent exactly. 274 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 2: And if you're just mentoring one kid, you're changing the world. 275 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: Right. 276 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 2: It takes all of us, right, You and I can't 277 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 2: change this world. But as you said, an army of 278 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 2: normal folks going out into just giving of their time 279 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 2: and their heart, it can happen. 280 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: I mean I've seen it happen in North of the. 281 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 3: Rock, Arkansas. We'll be right back, you know. 282 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 2: It's I go back to work in the morning to 283 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 2: be a briefing at five point forty five, I'll go 284 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 2: get my coffee and I will go into the neighborhoods 285 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 2: and I'll anyway, how many years on the force twenty five. 286 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: And twenty five years and you still got out of 287 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: your car walking through. Yes, I love it. I love 288 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: tell me you have got to have had after twenty 289 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: five years of your career. I can't believe other police 290 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: departments hadn't called you up and offered you promotions and 291 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: jobs and stuff. I mean, of those opportunities come along. 292 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 2: There have been opportunities from you know, maybe people not 293 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 2: even in the state of Arkansas that you know maybe 294 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 2: come here. And I've traveled and spoke right now, there's 295 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 2: if someone asked me back home once. Is there a 296 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 2: Tommy Norman method of policing? And I give two answers commitment, 297 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 2: commitment and respect. I mean, you have to stay committed 298 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 2: to the community and you also have to respect the 299 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 2: community right, respected as a person, not just as a 300 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 2: police officer. But I don't want to leave North litt Rock. 301 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:04,959 Speaker 2: And I don't want to get promoted. I don't want 302 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 2: to I don't want to test to be promoted. I 303 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 2: don't want to transfer to work in the courthouse, to 304 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 2: work as a desk officer. My calling and it has 305 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 2: been since I was about you ten years old. I 306 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:19,679 Speaker 2: want to be in that neighborhood. This may sound a 307 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 2: little odd, Coach, but being in those neighborhoods makes me 308 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 2: feel safe because I know that community has my back. 309 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 2: I don't go into these communities scared, now what I 310 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 2: want do? 311 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: That's interesting what you just said that We got to 312 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 1: go there for a second. You just said I don't 313 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: go into these communities scared. Are you telling me that 314 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: behind that big badge and the kevlar vest and the 315 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 1: gun and the cruiser and everything else, there's cops every 316 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: day that go into the communities that they're there to police, 317 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: and they're scared. Absolutely. 318 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 2: I think that white police officers that maybe have never 319 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 2: interacted with the person the color you need to get 320 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 2: out of your car and find out about that person's heritage. 321 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: But you're telling me they're scared. 322 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 2: I think some police officers may be scared. 323 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: But why are you scared? Why are these You don't 324 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:11,679 Speaker 1: know the people you're police, don't know the community. I 325 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:17,640 Speaker 1: get it. Yeah, the point is isn't that interesting that 326 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: the community is scared the death of the cops, and 327 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 1: the cops are scared of the community. Now, how the 328 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: hell are they supposed to interact and protect and serve 329 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: one another. And what you're saying is you don't go 330 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 1: into the community scared because you're part of the community. 331 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 2: I couldn't have said any better, Coach, I couldn't have 332 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 2: said it any better. But once again, it doesn't happen overnight. 333 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 2: Any police officers out there listening to this, or just 334 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 2: public servants are just You're everyday ordinary citizen. 335 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 1: Get out and get to. 336 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 2: Know people, people that don't look like you, people that 337 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 2: maybe don't have as much as you have, people that 338 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 2: have not been given a voice in life. Be that 339 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 2: voice for that person, help that person establish their own plot. 340 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 2: But like I said, I go back to work and 341 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 2: I'm back in these neighborhoods and I interact with these 342 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 2: people and we're family. I mean, are there times And 343 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,199 Speaker 2: this is a question I geld asked a lot, is 344 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 2: do you arrest people? 345 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: I do? I do? I do? Of course, you do? 346 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 2: Of course, right right, I mean you don't see that 347 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 2: on social media, But I. 348 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: Have a question, Yes, have you ever arrested twenty five years, 349 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: you've seen a generation of children grow up and are 350 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: on your second generation. Have you ever had to arrest 351 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: a kid that you tried to mentor in love on 352 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,919 Speaker 1: in the streets? Absolutely? I remember how art is that 353 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: it was. Actually this was not an arrest, but it 354 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: was a young man. His nickname was Tupac. That what 355 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: Tupac was? His nickname? Tupac? Yes, in like the Tupac 356 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: secure I. 357 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 2: Believe so Okay, So when he was young, five and 358 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,919 Speaker 2: six years old, his mom would call me, Officer Norman, 359 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 2: Tupac's up. He wants to see you, so come by 360 00:19:57,960 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 2: his house. We'd hang out and give him a police sticker. 361 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 2: Fast forward ten years later, he's fifteen sixteen. 362 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: Fifteen sixteen. 363 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 2: I remember driving down the street and Tupac's walking with 364 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 2: two of his friends, and he sees me coming and 365 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,199 Speaker 2: he spits on the ground. 366 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: That is. 367 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 2: Known as a sign of disrespect to a police officers. 368 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 2: If you see police officer coming, you spit on the ground. 369 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 2: And this is a kid ten years before that loved 370 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 2: Officer Norman. I remember I even came to one of 371 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 2: his birthday parties and then I didn't always keep in 372 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 2: the contact with him. 373 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:32,439 Speaker 1: By seen some But when. 374 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,920 Speaker 2: I passed by Tupac and he spit on the ground 375 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 2: and his friends are laughing. Man. And then a few 376 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:40,719 Speaker 2: years later he got killed on the shoe out at 377 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 2: a convenience store. And it just I tell that story 378 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 2: about Tupac, because what have I done wrong in these 379 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 2: ten years? There's more work you could do. There's more 380 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 2: work I could do, There's more work everyone could do. 381 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 2: But that bothered me for days. 382 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: Why do you think he spent. 383 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 2: I think that we lost contact and his devotion was 384 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 2: then to the streets. And if you're walking with your 385 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 2: friends and you got to show to an officer, oh no, 386 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,120 Speaker 2: maybe he's walking. Maybe if he's walking by hisself, there's 387 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 2: a chance that he's going to acknowledge me. 388 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: But not that day. 389 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 2: And that goes to show that even with the biggest 390 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 2: heart that people have, you can't save everyone. But I 391 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 2: didn't give up. That bothered me. And I'm looking at 392 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 2: my rear view mirror and they're giggling and laughing. I'm thinking, 393 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,360 Speaker 2: but ten years ago, Tupac, you you love me. 394 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 1: There's a thing called the Ben Franklin clothes and sales, 395 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: And what it is is if I'm selling you something, Tommy, 396 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: I take this piece of paper, and I draw a 397 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 1: line vertically right down the middle of it, and then 398 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,640 Speaker 1: across the top, I draw a line horizontally across the top. 399 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: And then on the left column, I create pluses. On 400 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: the right column, I create minuses. And any decision I make, 401 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: every good thing that comes that concision, I listen them here. 402 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: Any decision I make, any negative things that come from 403 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 1: that decision, I listen them here. And if the positives 404 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,400 Speaker 1: outweigh the negatives, we do it, and if the negatives 405 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 1: outweigh the positives, we don't do it. It's a thing 406 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: Ben Franklin used to use, believe it or not, back 407 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: in the day, and that's why it's called the Ben 408 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: Franklin close. That doesn't work in North Little Rock when 409 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: you're cop. That doesn't work in Manassas High School when 410 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: you're a football coach, because when you go into desperate, 411 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: poverty stricken areas, you have to understand there's going to 412 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: be a significant amount of minuses. But every positive on 413 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 1: the left side of that leisure is a win, because 414 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: they probably would have happened had you not engaged in 415 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: the first place. So if the negatives outweigh the positives, 416 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 1: big deal. Because before you and You're, the whole ledger 417 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: was negatives. Whatever positives you get are worth the effort. 418 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 1: And so when I hear a story of Tupac, and 419 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 1: I've said this before on previous shows, you know, counting, 420 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: I have five former players that are dead and seven 421 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: that are in jail for more than twenty years so far, 422 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: and I have no doubt that that number will go up, 423 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 1: and it absolutely breaks my heart. Especially well, I mean 424 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: they all break my heart. And there's a couple I 425 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 1: was really, really, really close with. Like you say, you 426 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: went to Tupac's birthday party, Well, you haven't been to 427 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: every kid in northforld of Rock's birthday party. Tupac was 428 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 1: one you took interest in, so he's close to you. 429 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: And I have a couple of those and once dead 430 00:23:54,880 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: and one's in jail for twenty years, and it it 431 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: kills me. And it makes me go home and look 432 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: in the mirror and think, you know, did did what 433 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: did I do wrong? What did I miss? What could 434 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 1: I have done different? And it makes you doubt that 435 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: all the time you spent doing what you were doing 436 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:22,719 Speaker 1: was even valuable or not. And then you remember the 437 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: positives and you understand that anytime you do work in 438 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 1: difficult areas, there's going to be negatives, and you've got 439 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:31,640 Speaker 1: to be able to overcome them. You've got to hang 440 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: on the positives. And so when I hear you tell 441 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: the story of Tupac, I identify with what that is. 442 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 1: And but think of all the kids that are changed 443 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: as a result of the effort of getting out of 444 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: your car and building relationships and showing love. It's it 445 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: is a struggle, and it is a price you pay 446 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 1: for doing good work in communities. But you know, in 447 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: my experience, it was completely worth it. What about yours. 448 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 2: Early in my career, I wanted everyone to like me. 449 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:09,439 Speaker 2: I wanted as a police I did if. I remember 450 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 2: one time I'm working security at a Kroger store in 451 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 2: North o the Rock, and I went to give I 452 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 2: kept a stack of police stickers. Kids love police stickers. 453 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,719 Speaker 2: I went to give this little girl police sticker, and 454 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,919 Speaker 2: her dad put his hand and blocked it, like, my 455 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 2: daughter doesn't want a police sticker. She was getting ready 456 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 2: to she was smiling, getting ready to take the sticker, 457 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 2: but he pushed my hand away. 458 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: He's teaching his daughter not to trust you. 459 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 2: She walked away so confused. It bothered me. It was 460 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 2: if anyone watched that, it was written all over my face. 461 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:46,360 Speaker 2: It's because I was a people pleaser that that was something. 462 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 1: Can you imagine what happened in that man's life to 463 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 1: have had that visceral over reaction to you just trying 464 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 1: to give his daughter a sticker? It God only knows 465 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: his background. And would you loved to pack? Oh exactly. 466 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: I would love to sit down with the dad. But 467 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 1: I'm thinking all I've done, at least all I thought 468 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: I've been doing, still wasn't enough. And I remember it 469 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,119 Speaker 1: like it was yesterday. It happened in slow motion, and 470 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: she walked away, and I know she had to be confused, 471 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 1: but she's going to listen to her dad. She's not 472 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: going to take that sticker, and he wasn't gonna let 473 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 1: it happen. 474 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 2: And but also on the flip side of that, if 475 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 2: you give a kid a police sticker, that could be 476 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 2: a life changer, because I remember giving a sticker to 477 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 2: a kid and a week later, his mom says, he 478 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 2: doesn't want to wash this hoodie. He's wearing because that 479 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 2: police stickers on there. 480 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 1: So you have other stores and the stickers wore off. 481 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 2: I was like, hundreds of stickers you shud have, right, 482 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 2: So then you have that story which gives you hope. 483 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 2: So as you mentioned your former players in the Tupacs 484 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 2: in my community, although you want to be able to 485 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 2: reach them all, I love the positive and the minus 486 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 2: is that that that you just kind of use as an example. 487 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 2: But and that gives me. Really, that give me some 488 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 2: more hope. I'm going to remember that. But after twenty 489 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 2: five years, I still have the same fire and passion 490 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 2: that I did when I started to nineteen ninety eight. 491 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:12,679 Speaker 1: Put on a few. 492 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 2: Pounds, don't run as fast, coach, but my heart is 493 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 2: never going to switch up. 494 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:18,639 Speaker 1: My heart is always going to be there for people. 495 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 1: We'll be right back, Timmy. So along the way of 496 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: getting out of your car, building relationships, taking a step 497 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: on the sidewalk of the grass into the kitchen table 498 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: and go into birthday parties and taking kids to pizza 499 00:27:55,840 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: and the thousands of other things that you've done, at 500 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: some point you decided to start posting I guess interactions 501 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: with kids, right, Yes, So from year one to year 502 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 1: what did you decide? Did you get comfortable enough that, hey, 503 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,959 Speaker 1: I'm going to start posting that I'm a cop and 504 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: these kids and we're building relationships And I guess you 505 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 1: did it initially. Well when did you start doing it 506 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:30,360 Speaker 1: and why did you do it initially? 507 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 2: So we'll go back to my son Mitchell, when he 508 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 2: was a teenager. He told me about Facebook, right, I 509 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 2: wasn't in the social media. 510 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: Yeah that you got to get always the kids. 511 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this was when Facebook was the thing. Now 512 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 2: I think the pinnacle is TikTok, but that get a Facebook, 513 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 2: you know, it's pretty cool. 514 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: So I do a little How many years are we 515 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: on the force system? 516 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 2: So probably I think Facebook started around maybe I was 517 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 2: probably a ten year off. 518 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: Okay, so ten years in so for zero to ten years, 519 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: you're being right, Gody Norman, the cop doing all the things. 520 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: We're sitting there talking, right, And there was my Space. 521 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 1: I think there was a my Space. I forgot about that, 522 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: yeah my space. Yeah. So anyway, around year ten, your 523 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: kid says you need to get Facebook, right. 524 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 2: So I get Facebook, take a picture, you know, profile picture. 525 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 2: I connect with people, these high school friends that hey, 526 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 2: you know, just like everybody it's really cool. Social media 527 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 2: can be a pretty positive thing, and it could also 528 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 2: be a curse. 529 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: So let me say this. I didn't go. 530 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 2: Into policing in nineteen ninety eight expecting to have this 531 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 2: platform that God the Man himself blessed me with. 532 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: No, that's the point, you're just getting Facebook exactly. 533 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 2: And so in twenty fourteen, Michael Brown was killed in Ferguson, Missouri. 534 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 2: I stayed up all night watching that because I'm a 535 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 2: police officer. 536 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: And Ferguson is not that far from I mean, it's 537 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: just one stayed up right. It is right to people 538 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 1: I'm from Memphis, to people in our world, that feels 539 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: awful close you. 540 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 2: Really close, Like I could get to you in two hours. 541 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 2: We can get to Ferguson into about four or five. 542 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 2: And so I stayed up all night watching the news coverage. 543 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 2: It was horrible on both sides. 544 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: Well you mean as a cop. Well I got to 545 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: interrupt you on this one because I want to understand 546 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: you got as Tommy Norman and then you got as 547 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:34,719 Speaker 1: cop because Tommy's a cop, but cop doesn't define Tommy. 548 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: So as you're watching that and I just heard you 549 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: say it was awful on both sides. Tell me both 550 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: sides well, because so many of us really still don't 551 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: understand both sides. 552 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 2: You've got the police, you've got the community, and then 553 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 2: you have the media. Now I'm no expert on any 554 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 2: of this, but I know what I saw. I know 555 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 2: that you know, you see this guy that is leaving 556 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 2: the convenience store, he has an encounter with a police 557 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 2: officer and after that, you know, I'm not going to 558 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 2: judge what happened, but I know that community was hurting. 559 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 2: That community was hurting, the police department was hurting. I 560 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 2: think too, like you said, if more people knew the 561 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 2: Mic Browns of their community as police officers, does that happen? 562 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: I don't know. 563 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 2: I know that the chance will be better that it 564 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 2: didn't happen. Okay, So I'm I don't want to take 565 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 2: sides on that. I'm a police officer asking sides. 566 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 1: I'm asking you do present both sides. 567 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 2: So you know you've got you've got a more people 568 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 2: have to know who the Mic Browns are. 569 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: Their community. 570 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 2: Are people that are in front of gas station selling 571 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 2: CDs or DVDs to raise to raise money for their family, 572 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 2: to help feed you know, the kids in their next meal. 573 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 1: I mean, you've got to Yeah, there are, but there's 574 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: also kids in front convenience store selling bags of weed. Yes, 575 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: exactly there are. So you know, how do you de 576 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: refferentiate between the kids selling a CDs burned, trying to 577 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 1: make a living and the kid breaking the law? I mean, 578 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: or the kid the young man or whatever. If I'm 579 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 1: a cop and I roll up and it's dark and 580 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 1: I see two people in front of a convenience store 581 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: and a tough neighborhood exchange money for goods, I gotta 582 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 1: tell you, I'm thinking it's week. 583 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 2: Yeah exactly exactly. But do you know their stories? 584 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: Do you know? I don't know anything about it. 585 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 2: You're gonna get out, you're going to investigate. But also, 586 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 2: as a police officer, it's how you talk to people, 587 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 2: how you present yourself. 588 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 1: Right. 589 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 2: You can't scream and yell at everyone. Right, you walk up, Hey, 590 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,959 Speaker 2: what's going on? You may have to search the person. 591 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 2: Did you get a call about this person? What was 592 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 2: this person doing? You know, it's a delicate, delicate topic 593 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 2: when you talk about police officers and making arrest and 594 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 2: policing communities of color. But the more stories that you 595 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 2: know and the more people that you know, You're gonna 596 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 2: know their stories, You're gonna know that. Okay, this guy 597 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 2: here has got a stack of DVDs or CDs that 598 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 2: the convenience store owner called and wants him to move along. 599 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 2: Do you go up there and you do you already 600 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 2: know this guy? Hey, you need to move somewhere else 601 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 2: and sell these all right? Do you take into jail? 602 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 2: Not necessarily, you talk with him, have him move on. 603 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: And if he's respectful and says, man, I'm just trying 604 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: to hustle up some money. You like, yeah, I get it, 605 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 1: but bro, you're on private property. This man doesn't want 606 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: you here. Just move on, so we don't have a 607 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 1: beef exactly. And then there you go. He moves on. 608 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 2: And it could be you already knew the guy, maybe 609 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 2: you just met him. But I remember one of the sergeants, 610 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,960 Speaker 2: he's retired now, we were leaving briefing one day and 611 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 2: he said, hey, guys, just watch how you talk to people. 612 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 2: Just be courteous. And what comes out of a police 613 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 2: officer's mouth could be very very powerful in a good 614 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 2: way in a bad way, And people remember encounters with 615 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 2: police officers for the rest of their life. So your 616 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 2: badge should have a heartbeat and not an ego. 617 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 1: Wow, your badge should have a heartbeat, not an ego. 618 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 1: Might as well it rests right on top of the heart, right, 619 00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: I mean, and you don't. 620 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 2: You're not bigger, you're not badder than anyone else. You 621 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,880 Speaker 2: have this uniform that you wear as a requirement, and 622 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,360 Speaker 2: you go through this training, and you you do carry 623 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,280 Speaker 2: a lot of power. I mean, you can take people's 624 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,840 Speaker 2: freedom away, right, you take I remember or stopped the 625 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:18,839 Speaker 2: lady one day, she was on her lunch break from 626 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 2: work and I pulled her over for speeding, and she 627 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,879 Speaker 2: had a traffic ticket she hadn't paid for years. Past man, 628 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 2: you got to go to jail. And she was bawling 629 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 2: and bawling, and not because she was. 630 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: Scared of me. It's because I've got to go to jail. 631 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 2: Yes, you've got to warn I've got to take you 632 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 2: to jail. And she was a successful businesswoman. And you know, 633 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 2: we parked her car there. Her husband came and picked 634 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,239 Speaker 2: it up. But that experience for her traumatic. It was 635 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 2: and when we talked and you know, and I saw 636 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:49,279 Speaker 2: her a few months after. 637 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: But my point is. 638 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 2: Police officers, you do have an important job. You have 639 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 2: a powerful job. So I'll go back to Mike Brown. 640 00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 2: I'm watching that. I wake up the next morning. 641 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: I had maybe build maybe. 642 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:07,439 Speaker 2: A thousand, two thousand followers on Facebook and Instagram because 643 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 2: I had both of my biggest platforms. Now it jumped 644 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:17,239 Speaker 2: by the thousands. What I realized is what you post that. 645 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:19,919 Speaker 2: I didn't post anything. It was just people that were 646 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 2: pissed off at police officers finding that, finding my work, 647 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 2: and they would share it. And you had people with 648 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 2: huge platforms that would share it. Snoop Dogg, Chris Brown, 649 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 2: the singer Monica sharing your stuff, stearing my. 650 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:34,959 Speaker 1: Stuff, the wrapper of the game. 651 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 2: All these people that I don't even know they're sharing 652 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 2: my work now right? Wrong or indifferent? People are mad 653 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 2: at police officers. Then the next time we had an incident, 654 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:52,759 Speaker 2: Eric Garner woke up the next morning, it's jumped to in. 655 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,839 Speaker 1: The hundreds of thousands of five are people sharing it? 656 00:35:55,880 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 1: Is it because they're trying to say all cops aren't bad, 657 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,840 Speaker 1: here's an example of a good one. Or are they saying, 658 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: you know what, why in response to incidents like that 659 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,840 Speaker 1: is your social media getting shared? Because to me, that's odd. 660 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:23,840 Speaker 2: First, your first answer was correct, is not all police 661 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 2: officers are bad? 662 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 1: So you're telling me a guy like Snoop Dogg, a 663 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: black dude who is a proud black dude. And I 664 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,360 Speaker 1: think he's from watch or Compton, so he's from the streets. 665 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,840 Speaker 1: It's interesting to me that in the face of something 666 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:49,239 Speaker 1: like the Mike Brown thing, that he's retweeting stories about you, 667 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: is that his way of reminding people in his community, 668 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: don't go crazy. There are all not bad you see 669 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 1: what I'm saying. I find it'sesting because so many people 670 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 1: would use their social media and that instance to attack 671 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: the cops, not to highlight a good one. This it 672 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 1: says to me that they're actually, in an odd way, 673 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,799 Speaker 1: holding out hope that the world doesn't fall apart. We 674 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:13,800 Speaker 1: can have good cops. 675 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,839 Speaker 2: This is what people wanted to see when they would 676 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:18,919 Speaker 2: share my work. This is what they want to see 677 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,840 Speaker 2: right now, great police officers all over this land that 678 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 2: do great work. But I feel like at that moment 679 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,279 Speaker 2: in time and in twenty fifteen, CNN calls and a 680 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 2: rapper named Killer Mike from Atlanta. He owns a barbershops 681 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 2: in the Atlanta area, and him and Bruce, a rapper 682 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 2: that owns barbershops in Atlanta. Yes, yeah, and Killer Mike 683 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 2: and not because not because he kills people, because he 684 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:42,359 Speaker 2: kills the mic. 685 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 1: I got it, Killer Mike, Killer Mike. 686 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:49,719 Speaker 2: So our public information officer called me, just gotten off 687 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 2: work and said, CNN just called and there's a rapper 688 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,400 Speaker 2: and Killer Mike that's friends with Brooke bad Once. She 689 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 2: used to be the afternoon news anchor on CNN. And 690 00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,799 Speaker 2: this was in the midst of people are angry. At 691 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 2: least they want to interview you about what you do. 692 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,560 Speaker 2: So the chief approved that I go into a studio 693 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 2: in Little Rock. It's a satellite interview. And I'm so nervous. 694 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 2: I'm so nervous and so not like that with the 695 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,080 Speaker 2: local TV station, but not for the world to see. 696 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:16,400 Speaker 1: And I'm nervous. 697 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 2: And then Brooke Baldwin, you know, like, hey, Officer Norman, 698 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:20,400 Speaker 2: this is Brooke Ball when I'm and I you know, 699 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 2: I watched I'm a news junkie, I watched the news. 700 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 1: I knew who she was. 701 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 2: And then there's Killer Mike and Officer Norman. You know, 702 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 2: what's it gonna take. What's it gonna take for people 703 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 2: to trust police officers in this disengagement to hopefully move away, 704 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,320 Speaker 2: and just the answers I've been giving you today. It's 705 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 2: it's that's all I know is to get out and 706 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:41,800 Speaker 2: talk to people and love people, get to know people. 707 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,360 Speaker 2: The first time you get sent of someone's house shouldn't 708 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 2: be when someone's broken in. 709 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 1: You should already know that family. 710 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,080 Speaker 2: You can't meet every and know every family in your community, 711 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:55,600 Speaker 2: but you should try your best exactly so it just 712 00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:01,200 Speaker 2: you know, my work through God's path, it really lit 713 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,719 Speaker 2: a fire underneath a lot of people to go out 714 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,400 Speaker 2: and make change other officers. There's an officer named Jason 715 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,799 Speaker 2: Lehman from Long Beach, California. He's retired now and he 716 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 2: teaches classes. But he traveled all the way here to 717 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 2: do a ride along with me from Long Beach, California. 718 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:16,920 Speaker 2: You wanted to see it, Yeah, he rode with me, 719 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 2: and then I returned the favor and I went up 720 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 2: to Long Beach and roll with him. 721 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 1: So you got officers hundreds of miles. 722 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 2: Away on different parts of the West Coast down south. 723 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,920 Speaker 1: It's gotta be. The real icing on the cake for 724 00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,400 Speaker 1: you is if you could not only help change the 725 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,359 Speaker 1: community of North Little Rock, but what if you can 726 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,319 Speaker 1: help change community policing nationwide. 727 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 2: And I think with social media and just by me 728 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,799 Speaker 2: being not just Officer Norman. I much rather prefer being 729 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,040 Speaker 2: called Tommy than Officer Norman because I want people to 730 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:51,320 Speaker 2: know Tommy before they know Officer Norman. So it's a 731 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 2: little difficult to answer your question as far as the 732 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,440 Speaker 2: followers millions of people now, it's just it's. 733 00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,239 Speaker 1: Well, so I'm just trying to timeline it. So from 734 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,359 Speaker 1: zero to ten, you didn't know anything about Facebook. Then 735 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,880 Speaker 1: you got Facebook. Then that stuff started happening, and then 736 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:11,680 Speaker 1: media personalities found you and started retweeting you, and then 737 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,799 Speaker 1: so your your platform blew up. It was like a 738 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 1: perfect storm. I mean, how many followers do you have now? 739 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 2: Facebook is two point two million and Instagram was a million. 740 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:25,839 Speaker 1: But that's incredible. But the point is now, what those 741 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:27,920 Speaker 1: two point three men to me and people are seeing 742 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:34,000 Speaker 1: absent another massive police blow up, is you're just interacting 743 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 1: with kids on the street in north of Rock, Arkansas. Right. 744 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,839 Speaker 1: I didn't leaven go to work, beautiful, you didn't go 745 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 1: and take it and go somewhere else. You're backing North'll right, 746 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,799 Speaker 1: getting out of your car, walking the beat being consistent 747 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,640 Speaker 1: and showing you're not a Turkey person, and you're still 748 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,680 Speaker 1: showing films of kids running up to your police car. 749 00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:57,719 Speaker 2: These are for the people that follow me, you know, 750 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 2: But these are just I use social media as a 751 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:06,080 Speaker 2: teaching tool for anyone that's an advocate for humanity. If 752 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,399 Speaker 2: a police officer sees my videos and he wants to 753 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,239 Speaker 2: go out and do what he's doing, or maybe a 754 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,239 Speaker 2: lady that's a businesswoman and she wants to help after 755 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,520 Speaker 2: she gets off work. My I know after talking to 756 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 2: God that my social media is a free teaching tool 757 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 2: for people to get on and because it's But on 758 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,360 Speaker 2: the flip side of that bill is I shouldn't be 759 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,840 Speaker 2: asked to travel to Orlando, Florida to speak about being nice. 760 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 2: That shouldn't be happening, right. 761 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,400 Speaker 1: That's all I don't I don't have a power point. 762 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,080 Speaker 1: I don't have It's all all. God always delivered my 763 00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 1: way nice. That's it. We like you to come in 764 00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:40,879 Speaker 1: here and tell us how to be nice. 765 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:42,880 Speaker 2: I mean, but I know that because the rule, how 766 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,640 Speaker 2: about that right, the Golden rule? But because of social 767 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,640 Speaker 2: media and the way media will portray you, I'm not 768 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,840 Speaker 2: saying that if me and you and we've been together 769 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:52,239 Speaker 2: for a few hours. But if me and you sit 770 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,239 Speaker 2: there and I have coffee, I would probably fall much 771 00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:55,799 Speaker 2: more in love with you, and you'd fall much more 772 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:57,680 Speaker 2: in love with me, because I'm so honored. 773 00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:57,759 Speaker 1: To be here. 774 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:03,880 Speaker 2: But social media, it's just Facebook and Instagram and Twitter. Okay, 775 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,800 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, so come to Orlando, talk to 776 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,520 Speaker 2: talk at our conference of first responders and tell us 777 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:14,279 Speaker 2: your story. So my story, the majority of my story 778 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,440 Speaker 2: is I've just been nice to people, and in nineteen 779 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:18,000 Speaker 2: ninety eight I started being nice. 780 00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:24,800 Speaker 1: To people wearing a uniform, which is so beautifully simple. 781 00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,520 Speaker 2: It's simple, but I would always ask my mom, mom. 782 00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:30,200 Speaker 1: And it's a huge. 783 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:35,520 Speaker 2: Honor because before before social media blew up, I would 784 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,520 Speaker 2: speak to kindergarteners about gun safety or nine a year 785 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:40,920 Speaker 2: old women not to leave your person your buggy at 786 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:45,240 Speaker 2: Walmarning turn your back. And then when the Mike Brown 787 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,920 Speaker 2: and the CNN, I got asked to speak. The first 788 00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,000 Speaker 2: time outside the city of North of the Rock was 789 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,080 Speaker 2: a University of Arkansas at Faeddville go Hogs boot Pig. 790 00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,200 Speaker 2: I spoke to their college there. 791 00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:00,080 Speaker 1: And gos a shameless. 792 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:05,799 Speaker 2: Coach coach knows that anyway, and and then Orlando, in 793 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:12,760 Speaker 2: Houston and Dallas and New York and all these places, 794 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,560 Speaker 2: and these people are calling me, and I would, I would, 795 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:17,960 Speaker 2: I would go speak and I would fly back in 796 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,000 Speaker 2: on a Saturday night and have to be at work 797 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,440 Speaker 2: the next morning. I was exhausting myself, but I felt like, 798 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,160 Speaker 2: if people want to hear what I have to say, 799 00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:29,680 Speaker 2: even though I'm just telling you how to be nice 800 00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:32,319 Speaker 2: to people and go talk to people that don't look 801 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,480 Speaker 2: like you and go in some front yards and front porches. 802 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:39,560 Speaker 2: Everything I've told you today is that's it. But if 803 00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,440 Speaker 2: that's what God wants, if that what if that's if 804 00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:43,960 Speaker 2: that's what it takes to a lot of fire in 805 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,719 Speaker 2: different communities across the world, then fly me in. 806 00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:48,960 Speaker 1: I'm going to light this fire. When I leave. I 807 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,680 Speaker 1: hope you can use my example. And that's it. That's it. 808 00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,280 Speaker 1: That's the thing about it. It's just so beautifully simple. 809 00:43:55,960 --> 00:44:04,800 Speaker 1: So when you woke up after the second police incident 810 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:09,240 Speaker 1: where the numbers on your social media just continue to climb, 811 00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:14,400 Speaker 1: I mean were like, wow, what that? I mean? I 812 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:19,360 Speaker 1: guess if I did a post and came back and 813 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,240 Speaker 1: all of a sudden there was like twenty thousand people 814 00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,360 Speaker 1: viewing it or whatever. I'd be like, I mean, you 815 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:27,680 Speaker 1: had to have been shocked, I guess is what I'm asking. 816 00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:29,680 Speaker 1: I was shocked and that wasn't me. 817 00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:31,640 Speaker 2: I was out of my element because I didn't go 818 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:33,640 Speaker 2: into policing to have millions of followers. 819 00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,520 Speaker 1: But it's, you know, it's it's that never even dit 820 00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:38,239 Speaker 1: you didn't even know what it was. There wasn't. 821 00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,520 Speaker 2: It wasn't in ninety eight, there wasn't social media. 822 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,439 Speaker 1: And you know what's interesting about that is I get 823 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:48,719 Speaker 1: asked about Undefeated, the movie. But what people don't understand 824 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,080 Speaker 1: is I was that that happened the last year I 825 00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:56,560 Speaker 1: was at Manassas. I coached the Manassa seven years before 826 00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:02,240 Speaker 1: all that. I didn't go into coaching because some temmy, 827 00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,560 Speaker 1: the three dudes wearing skinny legg of jeans and wearing 828 00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,200 Speaker 1: scarfs when it was hot. I mean, these people from 829 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,480 Speaker 1: La don't. I mean, they showed up with two barred 830 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,920 Speaker 1: cameras and said they're going to make a movie. I mean, 831 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,400 Speaker 1: I didn't go into coaching for that. It just happened. 832 00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,960 Speaker 1: You didn't go into policing for that. It just happened. 833 00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:28,000 Speaker 1: And I'm going to tell you you've invoked your faith a lot. 834 00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:33,960 Speaker 1: And when my situation happened, I talked with Lisa about 835 00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:37,319 Speaker 1: it and we were like, Okay, God's blessed us with 836 00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:42,239 Speaker 1: this notoriety, Now what do we do with it? And 837 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:46,239 Speaker 1: the idea was we can do stuff like this and 838 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:51,400 Speaker 1: have conversations about stuff that matters. But it never really 839 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:55,920 Speaker 1: defined me and it's still doesn't. And I guess what 840 00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,560 Speaker 1: I'm asking you is, did you have to pinch yourself 841 00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:00,880 Speaker 1: a little bit? Did you also have to check yourself 842 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,600 Speaker 1: a little bit? Because two and a half me and 843 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:08,400 Speaker 1: followers you probably. I mean I walk in restaurants and 844 00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,680 Speaker 1: stuff all the time where people recognize me and it's 845 00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,360 Speaker 1: humbling and everything else. I mean you have to get that, 846 00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,239 Speaker 1: especially at home. You got to be a little bit 847 00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,040 Speaker 1: of a rock star. I mean, how do you handle it? 848 00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:20,839 Speaker 2: You have to eat a few pieces of humble. 849 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:22,880 Speaker 1: Pie, right, agreed. 850 00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,880 Speaker 2: I've had to check myself a few times with my 851 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,239 Speaker 2: mom taught us early on in life. Never get too 852 00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:32,239 Speaker 2: big for your breeches, and don't forget where you can, 853 00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:36,160 Speaker 2: don't forget where you came from. And you know, me, 854 00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,880 Speaker 2: being humble hasn't been an issue and when we go 855 00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,160 Speaker 2: out to places and people may walk up and say, oh, 856 00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:44,239 Speaker 2: Officer Norman, you're famous. Guess what my wife says, No, 857 00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:45,960 Speaker 2: he still takes out the trash. 858 00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,320 Speaker 1: Oh you know what's funny that you say that, because 859 00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,000 Speaker 1: you know what my wife says, he still can't remember 860 00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:54,839 Speaker 1: put the lid down. Yeah, I'm just a dude that, 861 00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:58,800 Speaker 1: you know. I mean, she ain't that impressed. I guess. 862 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,440 Speaker 1: I guess. The point I'm trying to make is is 863 00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:05,200 Speaker 1: that I really respect how you've handled the notoriety you've gotten. 864 00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,560 Speaker 1: I've worked hard to do the same thing, and that 865 00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:13,839 Speaker 1: that's not what's going to happen for most people. We 866 00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:17,000 Speaker 1: need to fix our culture, one person or time, getting 867 00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,840 Speaker 1: out and getting involved and working to make things better, 868 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,520 Speaker 1: not because maybe we're going to get two million followers 869 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,160 Speaker 1: or a movie, just because it's the right thing to do. 870 00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:31,000 Speaker 1: And you and I both were engaged in this a 871 00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,520 Speaker 1: long time before the notoriety ever came along. We never 872 00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,319 Speaker 1: did it for that. And you know, hey, if you're 873 00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,239 Speaker 1: lucky and something like that strikes, great, use it to 874 00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,840 Speaker 1: do more good work, but don't do it for that. 875 00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:49,120 Speaker 1: And if that happens, it can't change your focus, and if. 876 00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:50,960 Speaker 2: You don't do it for that, I was going to 877 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:52,640 Speaker 2: make sure that he does it for you. 878 00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:54,440 Speaker 1: But I will add this that I feel like. 879 00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,160 Speaker 2: During your time at Manassas and then the movie Undefeated, 880 00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,960 Speaker 2: the world needed you and needed that's and I feel 881 00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:05,360 Speaker 2: like with my story and police officers and communities of 882 00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:09,799 Speaker 2: color and the disengagement, the world needed it then and 883 00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:10,759 Speaker 2: still needs it now. 884 00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:15,000 Speaker 1: And the world needs to know that that genuine kindness 885 00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:20,160 Speaker 1: and hard work and humility and the basic fundamentals and 886 00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:25,080 Speaker 1: tenets of the Golden rule and just decency still work. Yes, 887 00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:29,000 Speaker 1: and you are emblematic of that fact. 888 00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,080 Speaker 2: It's not difficult, and I'm so thankful my mom brought 889 00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:34,399 Speaker 2: me up just to be kind of people. I mean, 890 00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,040 Speaker 2: it literally contains the world amazing. 891 00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:41,640 Speaker 1: I got a couple more questions with you. Yeah, he 892 00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:46,399 Speaker 1: always does this. I think we covered a lot. Man. 893 00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:53,200 Speaker 1: That was over two hours, no kidding. I love to 894 00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:56,440 Speaker 1: give our producer Alex a hard time, primarily because he 895 00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:02,000 Speaker 1: spends hours giving me a hard time. But there are 896 00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,759 Speaker 1: important topics we still need to cover in case you 897 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:10,080 Speaker 1: happen to think that this story was only sunshine and rainbows. 898 00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:14,680 Speaker 1: It's not, and some of it is gut wrenching. We 899 00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,840 Speaker 1: all face crosses in our lives, and Tommy has faced 900 00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:21,319 Speaker 1: some especially trying ones, and Part three will hear from 901 00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:25,200 Speaker 1: him about his struggles and how he's persevered to continue 902 00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:29,040 Speaker 1: to love others even when he's dying on the inside himself. 903 00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:31,719 Speaker 1: I really am an awe of his example, and I 904 00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:36,279 Speaker 1: just believe you will be too. One thing, however, that 905 00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,480 Speaker 1: maybe isn't all inspiring, is my knowledge and use of 906 00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:43,600 Speaker 1: social media. Alex gave me a hard time and pointed 907 00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:47,640 Speaker 1: out that you can't retweet something on Facebook or Instagram. 908 00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:51,680 Speaker 1: As I was saying, that's apparently not a thing, and 909 00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:56,279 Speaker 1: you can only retweet on Twitter. I don't really know, 910 00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,799 Speaker 1: and I don't really care. I'm busy running a lumber company, 911 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,120 Speaker 1: which in football, so I'm not really sorry about it, 912 00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:07,680 Speaker 1: but I guess whatever, it's what Alex does and it's 913 00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:11,320 Speaker 1: not what I do. I'll see you guys in Part three.