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Speaker 1: to connect with a licensed therapist within days for virtual support.
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Speaker 1: slash Katiekuric. Hi everyone, I'm Katikuric and this is next question.
Speaker 1: You've probably heard the name Sophie Trudeau, right, the young,
Speaker 1: glamorous wife of Justin Trudeau, the Prime Minister of Canada.
Speaker 1: But Sophie is a whole lot more than that. As
Speaker 1: a mental health advocate for the last twenty years, she
Speaker 1: is as passionate as she is compassionate. Her mission has
Speaker 1: been to better understand herself so we can all better
Speaker 1: understand each other. Her new book is called Closer Together,
Speaker 1: Knowing Ourselves, Loving each Other, and she candidly shares a
Speaker 1: lot about her life and struggles. But Sophie also has
Speaker 1: incorporated the best science and interviewed the leading researchers about
Speaker 1: how our brain handles life's biggest challenges. Her book tackles
Speaker 1: everything from mindfulness to the function of this thing we
Speaker 1: all have called the biggest nerve. The book is fascinating
Speaker 1: and best of all, it's hopeful. There really are simple
Speaker 1: things we can all do to live a more peaceful life.
Speaker 1: And here's a little hint, it's all about our nervous systems.
Speaker 1: So here's my conversation with Sophie Trudeau. Sophie, congratulations on
Speaker 1: your book. How does it feel putting it out in
Speaker 1: the world. Are you excited, terrified?
Speaker 2: What a little mix of everything? But to be honest
Speaker 2: right now, because people have read it in the advance
Speaker 2: and the response that I've been getting has been overwhelmingly
Speaker 2: touching and supportive, and I'm pinching myself, yes, because it
Speaker 2: was a labor of love and you know, teamwork. And
Speaker 2: it's not that I'm yes, I'm proud of the content,
Speaker 2: but I really want this book to serve. I want
Speaker 2: people to be able to have the tools to better
Speaker 2: know themselves so they can navigate the fault of life
Speaker 2: that feels overwhelming, you know, feeling more secure and more confident.
Speaker 1: It's a really wonderful format because it almost feels like
Speaker 1: an amalgamation of a memoir, a journal, a personal exploration,
Speaker 1: but also an exploration outside of yourself someone who is
Speaker 1: a reporter searching for answers. So tell me how you
Speaker 1: came upon this format, Sophie, and what you thought before
Speaker 1: you dove into the writing process.
Speaker 2: I think the format kind of overtook me. You know,
Speaker 2: although I'm a you know, I'm a great I'm a
Speaker 2: type a so organizer or you know, things have to
Speaker 2: be in category reason when I'm working, and my desk
Speaker 2: had to be clean and all that. But for me,
Speaker 2: the book was kind of like a labor of love
Speaker 2: where I only know, you know now at forty nine
Speaker 2: that we can only teach by experience. Therefore, I could
Speaker 2: include my story and have a sense of integrity, of
Speaker 2: congruence that people understand that if I expose myself and
Speaker 2: my vulnerability, that they feel safe enough to do the same.
Speaker 2: And then I've had the privilege in a way and
Speaker 2: the chance throughout my twenty years of advocacy for mental health,
Speaker 2: and you know, my ambassadorship working with different kinds of
Speaker 2: organizations on a volunteer basis, really was to bring together
Speaker 2: experts and have access to science, to knowledge. And I'm
Speaker 2: super curious. I'm an eternal student. I'm never going to stop,
Speaker 2: you know, eating up what I'm passionate about. And I
Speaker 2: told myself, I have access to all of this, I'm
Speaker 2: learning on my own path. Well what's the point if
Speaker 2: I don't share with other people? And because I do
Speaker 2: what I do, I see people are suffering, and I
Speaker 2: see that people are anxious that are depleted or try
Speaker 2: to read, you know know, make ends meet. And there's
Speaker 2: a neural by biological imperative behind all of that. So
Speaker 2: I wanted to this science and the best experts in
Speaker 2: their industry, in fields and domains to be able to
Speaker 2: really make it accessible for everybody, whether you're a teenager
Speaker 2: or you know a young adult or somebody who's aging,
Speaker 2: that it's all accessible to everybody. And I think that
Speaker 2: that's working out well as of now with the comments
Speaker 2: that I'm getting. So I just can't wait to get
Speaker 2: more comments all the people who will be reading it
Speaker 2: and canally it's so important.
Speaker 1: Meredith, who produced this segment for me, was talking about
Speaker 1: the format and the conversational the dialogue that you capture
Speaker 1: in the pages of this book, which she said made
Speaker 1: it feel much more readable and understandable than maybe an
Speaker 1: essay written by an expert that it really lent itself
Speaker 1: to accessibility, and I think when people see someone else learning,
Speaker 1: they're much more likely to take the journey with that person.
Speaker 1: When I did a documentary about our changing notion of
Speaker 1: gender identity, I sort of brought people along with me
Speaker 1: as I asked questions and channeled what I thought they
Speaker 1: would ask. And I think you used the same technique
Speaker 1: in your book, didn't you for me?
Speaker 2: I mean, yes, you're right that it is a technique,
Speaker 2: but that's not how I used it. I didn't think,
Speaker 2: in my mind, I'm going to use this technique. What
Speaker 2: I wanted was to have a conversation with the people
Speaker 2: and the peacemakers that I love to call scientists who
Speaker 2: are trying to better understand how our brains work, how
Speaker 2: our bodies work, and why we have the personality that
Speaker 2: we do. So I wanted it to be conversational, and
Speaker 2: in the conversation there's no real protocol, there's no you know,
Speaker 2: titles are not important. It's just you to me. When
Speaker 2: I think of the people, I don't think of other people.
Speaker 2: I think of me, so and them and us together.
Speaker 2: So I tried to really be in that conversation immerse
Speaker 2: myself in that conversation, keeps things straightforward, authentic and simple,
Speaker 2: and to make it accessible for everybody. And you know,
Speaker 2: I think that right now, I've had you know, grandparents, parents,
Speaker 2: teenagers read it. And I'm so touched, especially by youth,
Speaker 2: because sometimes we think, oh, you know, they won't have
Speaker 2: the maturity to understand, or it's so untrue. Our young
Speaker 2: people are so ready to receive resting wisdom because they're
Speaker 2: so overpowered and overwhelmed by information that I just really
Speaker 2: hope that more young people as well will be exposed
Speaker 2: to It's kind of content.
Speaker 1: Why do you think this is the right book at
Speaker 1: the right time, Because it does feel like the world
Speaker 1: is chaotic, people are overwhelmed, and there are just a
Speaker 1: lot of people who I think are feeling somewhat lost.
Speaker 1: And I'm wondering if do we know about it more
Speaker 1: because of social media, because our easy access to information,
Speaker 1: or does this feel, for you, Sophie, like a particularly
Speaker 1: fraught time, not only in America but in Canada, in
Speaker 1: so many places around the world. And maybe it's because
Speaker 1: we're witnessing such enormous change.
Speaker 2: Such enormous change, well fed Katie, in such a short
Speaker 2: period of time, the telephone and the slip phone and
Speaker 2: then the you know, reverse screen and self be It
Speaker 2: changed our brain, it changed our kids' brains. And because
Speaker 2: we come into the world with two main intrinsic vistubal needs.
Speaker 2: First onanted attachment to be in the care of somebody,
Speaker 2: under their touch, their gaze, their their presence, their joyful presence,
Speaker 2: their their playfulness. Right, that sets a tone in our
Speaker 2: brain and every single human being our bonnot attachment with
Speaker 2: the person who took care of us, whether it was
Speaker 2: a grandparent and auntie, your mother, or a father. It
Speaker 2: leaves an imprint in our brain that we charty that
Speaker 2: into our teenage years, rebellious or not, and into our
Speaker 2: adulthood and the child within us is still active. So
Speaker 2: that's the first thing attachment. The second thing is authenticity.
Speaker 2: So every human being comes up to this earth with
Speaker 2: a unique personnality and we're meant to express that uniqueness
Speaker 2: and that's a form of creativity. And therefore, in order
Speaker 2: to be loved, we change and we modify our behavior
Speaker 2: in order to please and be loved, and we all
Speaker 2: do it by the way we do it as children
Speaker 2: to be loved by our parents. We do it as
Speaker 2: adults in our loving relationships and in our friendships, because
Speaker 2: we want to be loved and validated in our own emotions.
Speaker 2: And we do it on different levels, of course, you know,
Speaker 2: depending on if that bond of attachment is more secure,
Speaker 2: it insecure or disorganized, which which turned the three big families.
Speaker 2: So if you think that the child with you and
Speaker 2: you not then is not active, now you're going to
Speaker 2: be surprised by what you learn in this book and
Speaker 2: to bring them back to what we're living in the
Speaker 2: world right now, Katie, the opposing forces, the darker forces.
Speaker 2: You know, we have the better angels of our nature.
Speaker 2: We have positivity, we have hope, we have creativity, we
Speaker 2: have self awareness and discernment and perspective. But then we
Speaker 2: have also the bad wolves. And it's all in us
Speaker 2: as well, the hatred, the division, the paralizing, the confusion,
Speaker 2: the illusion, the not understanding, and we all have it
Speaker 2: inside of us. And as the old Shayan proverb says, well,
Speaker 2: those two wolves are always fighting, which one is going
Speaker 2: to win. It's the one we feed.
Speaker 1: It's like they it and the ego exactly.
Speaker 2: And I have chills right now because in the world
Speaker 2: we live in we want to be esthentic, but we
Speaker 2: keep being rewarded for self betrayal, whether it's physically. We
Speaker 2: can't appear the way we do because it's not okay.
Speaker 2: The lions are not on the right spot, and we
Speaker 2: shouldn't be aging because we should be behaving a certain
Speaker 2: way and not the way that we really want to
Speaker 2: behave because we're being judged by you know, hundreds or
Speaker 2: thousands or millions of people out there through social media
Speaker 2: without even knowing them, and without them even knowing us.
Speaker 2: So the connection that we're supposed to have naturally face
Speaker 2: to face, the security presence is really fragmented and is
Speaker 2: really eroded, and that is making us suffer physically and mentally.
Speaker 2: So we're not surprised to learn that during the pandemic,
Speaker 2: eating disorders were up the right, depression was up, the right,
Speaker 2: anxiety was up the right, and again there's a neurobiological
Speaker 2: imperatives behind all of it, because in our nervous system,
Speaker 2: you have one, Katie, I have one, everybody listening has one,
Speaker 2: and it's all kind of made the same. It's the
Speaker 2: autonomic nervous system, and this sympathetic branch is our fight
Speaker 2: flight freeze. So if a cart passes by, we need
Speaker 2: to be able to stop, to not be bumped into.
Speaker 2: And then the parasympathetic, which is the rest and digest
Speaker 2: so to be able to relax, come to come back
Speaker 2: home within ourselves, knowing that.
Speaker 1: We're secure and having what they call homeostasis.
Speaker 2: Right homeostasis exactly, So to be able to come back
Speaker 2: to that shouldn't be kind of a natural state. But
Speaker 2: with the stressors that we have constantly in our lives,
Speaker 2: the rapidity of information, the clickbait, the quick judgment of
Speaker 2: people on social media, what's happening is that too many
Speaker 2: people are stuck in their sympathetic fight, flight, freeze vote.
Speaker 2: So guess what, when you're in your alert mode, it's
Speaker 2: very difficult to have self compassion and compassion and empathy
Speaker 2: for others. So look at the state of the world
Speaker 2: right now. The dynamics of the pandemic made us in
Speaker 2: part lean on our nagtiburs because we had to help
Speaker 2: each other out, but at the same time distance us
Speaker 2: from everybody else because we were isolated, and so we
Speaker 2: are not only before that there was a mental health crisis,
Speaker 2: and I'd been saying it for twenty years and it
Speaker 2: tisses me off because it's been there for a long time.
Speaker 2: People have been suffering from anxiety from the way we
Speaker 2: live for a long time, and the pandemic kind of
Speaker 2: exacerbated all of that. So the lesson to be learned
Speaker 2: here is one of hope, because not only can we
Speaker 2: we wire our nervous our brains and can we regulate
Speaker 2: our own nervous systudents, but there's a lot of education
Speaker 2: to be done there. It's not as complicated as we think.
Speaker 2: So in this book Closer Together, I want to make
Speaker 2: sure that the exercises, the technique that the experts talk about,
Speaker 2: and the micro habits, the baby steps, they don't have
Speaker 2: to be huge leaps for you to transport of your
Speaker 2: life because the brain is getting it. And the brain,
Speaker 2: by the way, way, when you come back from the office,
Speaker 2: you're tired, you're depleted, you want your beer or your
Speaker 2: glass of wine, you jump food and your TV. The
Speaker 2: brain's like, yes, I have no effort to make. But
Speaker 2: as the expert Lori Santo says in my book, we
Speaker 2: are in the own way over happiness because the brain
Speaker 2: isn't helping us. It just wants to be there on
Speaker 2: the couch. We have to say, wait a second, let
Speaker 2: me live more consciously, let me take care of myself,
Speaker 2: and Lendy know deeply that I am worthy of rest,
Speaker 2: but we live in a society where we don't even
Speaker 2: think that we are worthy of rest. But rest is
Speaker 2: how the mind and the body makes sense of life.
Speaker 2: So think about this on a global scale.
Speaker 1: Tell me how you got so interested in this, Sophie.
Speaker 1: Obviously you are approaching it from a personal and I
Speaker 1: want to ask a little bit about your personal story
Speaker 1: in a moment, but from a very scientific and sort
Speaker 1: of neuroscience point of view, how did you first say
Speaker 1: there are reasons for our emotions? And I want to
Speaker 1: understand that better.
Speaker 2: So I'm forty nine now. Twenty years ago when I
Speaker 2: shared my story as a very young television and radio
Speaker 2: hoist in Quebec, one of my girlfriends from high school
Speaker 2: had approached me to because she was putting up a
Speaker 2: foundation for eating disorders and she knew that I was
Speaker 2: suffering because we had talked about it at some point
Speaker 2: and I hadn't talked about it with many people, and
Speaker 2: she's Sophie, you want to get involved, and like absolutely,
Speaker 2: because I had heard so many stories around me, from
Speaker 2: girls and from boys who were suffering, and that really
Speaker 2: gave a course to my life. And I understood then
Speaker 2: that by sharing my story, first of all, I would
Speaker 2: be healing myself, you know, and taking the first step
Speaker 2: to healing. And then I had to remain curious of
Speaker 2: my own condition, to see how am I evolving, how
Speaker 2: am I healing? What are the solutions that I can
Speaker 2: apply into my own life?
Speaker 1: But also the root causes?
Speaker 2: Right, Yes, I was longing, you know, for my father
Speaker 2: to be more emotionally pressent. I wanted to save my
Speaker 2: mother from herself and my mother from my dad, and
Speaker 2: I wanted to save my dad from himself. I was
Speaker 2: an only child. Having that savior cape was way too
Speaker 2: heavy for me to carry, and I held a lot
Speaker 2: of sadness inside of me. And today, even when I
Speaker 2: talk about it with all the maturity that I've gained,
Speaker 2: with all the life experience, with all the love that
Speaker 2: I'm getting, and I still have my parents who are alive,
Speaker 2: you know, it still hurts. It still hurts when I
Speaker 2: pay attention to the suffering. And I'm sure I'm not alone.
Speaker 2: If you go back really with your eyes closed, how
Speaker 2: do you talk to yourself, how do you truly feel
Speaker 2: and what are your heart's truest wish from when you
Speaker 2: were a little child, What was your truest wish And
Speaker 2: is that being nourished in your life right now because
Speaker 2: a lot of people are suffering in their relationships. So
Speaker 2: for me, it's a responsibility to continue to be educated
Speaker 2: on the mouth.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I thought it was fascinating that you
Speaker 1: are an only child and that you did feel responsible.
Speaker 1: I think maybe combined with the fact that you have
Speaker 1: extremely high emotional intelligence and were very sensitive, that you
Speaker 1: felt like you had to fix everything because it was
Speaker 1: just you and your mom and dad. I wonder if
Speaker 1: a lot of only children feel that way.
Speaker 2: It's funny you laugh that because I talk to parents who,
Speaker 2: you know, found out that I was an only child whatever,
Speaker 2: and they come to me and they're like, like, should
Speaker 2: I have another one? You know, And they do relate,
Speaker 2: and it does resonate, and they do say, I understand
Speaker 2: what you're saying because I see it in my child.
Speaker 2: And it's not because we're bad parents, you know. And
Speaker 2: this is not about finger pointing and saying, oh, you know,
Speaker 2: my parents were like this to me. Therefore, it expands
Speaker 2: my whole situation, It expands your situation profoundly, artly, yes,
Speaker 2: but then we have to realize that we have enough consciousness,
Speaker 2: awareness and strength to be able to sit with that pain,
Speaker 2: face it, and heal it so that we don't leave
Speaker 2: emotional luggage and baggage generations to come. That's the true responsibility.
Speaker 1: It seems in your life, Sophie that you're determined to
Speaker 1: be the one to bring it up. Is that were
Speaker 1: with hard topics like mental illness. So where did you
Speaker 1: get this mission to say these things out loud? I mean,
Speaker 1: it wasn't long ago, as you well know, since you've
Speaker 1: been in this space, that these things weren't discussed. I
Speaker 1: think reducing the stigma of mental illness and being much
Speaker 1: more transparent about your own issues as individuals and collectively
Speaker 1: as the society has really undergone this massive transformation. But
Speaker 1: why have you felt it's so important for you to
Speaker 1: bring these things out in the open.
Speaker 2: There is no doubt in my mind and in my
Speaker 2: heart that the reason why I'm doing this is because
Speaker 2: other people paved the way before me. I was following
Speaker 2: experts already, because I was interested in the topic, whether
Speaker 2: it was you know Yab or Mate or best or
Speaker 2: Vandercolt or you know as psychologists in French that it
Speaker 2: used to follow as well, And it's just been an
Speaker 2: area of passion of mine because you're right, Katie, I
Speaker 2: think I became hyper sensitive because it was an only
Speaker 2: child and I was surrounded with adults, and I had
Speaker 2: to tune in to be able to regulate and to
Speaker 2: see how I could save and be loved at the
Speaker 2: same time. So I got inspired along the way why
Speaker 2: incredible humans who I didn't even think would look at
Speaker 2: my book. But when I reached out to doctor gaber Matte,
Speaker 2: he read my chapter outline and it took everything I
Speaker 2: had because I had read his book in the Realm
Speaker 2: of Hungary Ghosts on Addiction is twelve years ago, and
Speaker 2: I was like, he's gonna think, why the heck? The
Speaker 2: first lady reached out right, so I was self doubting,
Speaker 2: and then when we sat down, he's like, hey, wait
Speaker 2: a minute, you've got something here, and I see your
Speaker 2: energy and I think people cut through the bs. I
Speaker 2: don't have any, so it's a natural way for me
Speaker 2: to interact with people and to serve. Yes, it's his
Speaker 2: value based mission. But I don't make it theoretical like that.
Speaker 2: In my mind, I just feel that I have clarity
Speaker 2: on how I can give to the world, and that
Speaker 2: for me is a gift, that's a blessing that I
Speaker 2: have to cherish.
Speaker 1: After this break. Sophie's profoundly insightful take on how trauma
Speaker 1: or lack thereof, shapes our lives. Everyone needs someone to
Speaker 1: talk to and text with about life's challenges, and while
Speaker 1: girlfriends are great listeners, there are limits to your group chat.
Speaker 1: A talkspace therapist will give you an objective perspective and
Speaker 1: professional guidance. Register at talkspace dot com to connect with
Speaker 1: a licensed therapist within days and you can start messaging
Speaker 1: back and forth and also schedule live video or audio sessions.
Speaker 1: Talkspace is in network with major insurers, and copays are
Speaker 1: usually twenty five dollars or less no insurance. Now get
Speaker 1: eighty five dollars off of your first month with promo
Speaker 1: code Katie when you go to talkspace dot com slash Katiecuric.
Speaker 1: Match with a licensed therapist at talkspace dot com slash Katiecuric.
Speaker 1: We're back with Sophie Trudeau. You just spoke of a doctor,
Speaker 1: Gavr Matte, and he talks a lot about hardwiring. And
Speaker 1: for our listeners who haven't read the book yet or
Speaker 1: just want to have an understanding before they do, what
Speaker 1: exactly are you talking about in terms of hardwiring, because
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people will be interested in that.
Speaker 2: I love that question and it's super important. So let
Speaker 2: me make it simple. So we've been sharing the same
Speaker 2: braining for two hundred thousand years, all right, it hasn't
Speaker 2: really changed. Now, imagine the brain as a hard disk
Speaker 2: of a computer. Okay, so we share that hard disk. Now,
Speaker 2: the programming going into that hard disk is different depending
Speaker 2: on your early bond of attachment, how you were taken
Speaker 2: care of from zero three, and your life experience. So
Speaker 2: et p genetics, how the environment can affect your brain
Speaker 2: and even you know yourselves exactly. It's fascinating. And then
Speaker 2: we learn how what we bring our attention to, what
Speaker 2: would we consume, how we sleep, what we hang out with,
Speaker 2: what we put in our bodies as food, how we
Speaker 2: interact with ourselves and others. That's the fabric overalized, and
Speaker 2: that is our mental health. You don't have to stuffer
Speaker 2: from a mental illness to be on this on the
Speaker 2: kind of big circle or spectrum of mental health, and
Speaker 2: we're all one trauma away from each other. And I
Speaker 2: remember discussing this with doctor Mattley that you know, it
Speaker 2: takes only a series of chronic little traumas or a
Speaker 2: huge trauma that you've been through to change your brain,
Speaker 2: to change the way you perceive yourself, especially if you
Speaker 2: don't talk about it, and to change the way you
Speaker 2: interact with the world. But here's the secret. Trauma isn't
Speaker 2: just what happened to you that was that. Trauma is
Speaker 2: also what should have happened that did not take place.
Speaker 2: And most people are not really aware of that. They
Speaker 2: long for something in their relationship. They feel that a
Speaker 2: piece is missing somewhere, like we're undernourished or we're getting
Speaker 2: emotional breadcrumbs and we want more. While that is the
Speaker 2: child who's still longing for something. And you know, we
Speaker 2: do have to be careful to not see this as
Speaker 2: a childish thing. It is not to be able to
Speaker 2: be aware and cognizant and conscious of our emotional patterns
Speaker 2: is a sign of emotional maturity and emotional leadership. So
Speaker 2: imagine what kind of leaders we would have all through schools, organizations, companies,
Speaker 2: government countries if people were better regulated and knew how
Speaker 2: to understand their emotions. In the book, I talk with
Speaker 2: David Livingstone Smith, who's an expert on dehumanization, and he
Speaker 2: explains how hatred is really a deep longing for connection.
Speaker 2: So it is clear that all these people who are
Speaker 2: committing a trial teeth probably have deep trauma and attachment,
Speaker 2: you know, trauma disorder.
Speaker 1: Right or what you what you said, which I think
Speaker 1: is so brilliant. It's it's the lack of something. It's
Speaker 1: not something horrific that happened to you. It's something good
Speaker 1: that never happened to you.
Speaker 2: Yes, or it's boat, or it's one. But the lefting
Speaker 2: here is that we should not compare each other suffering.
Speaker 2: You could live in a castle with all the most
Speaker 2: expensive cars if that was your dream, and you have
Speaker 2: all your objects that are surrounding you. It's not my dream,
Speaker 2: but maybe it's your dream, not yours, Katie. But you know,
Speaker 2: some people like to humulate wealth. But you're profoundly unhappy
Speaker 2: and you feel insecure because on Abraham Maslow's pyramid, that
Speaker 2: triangle that says which basic needs are the most important
Speaker 2: in every human being, having a roof over your head,
Speaker 2: having food on the table to nourish yourself, and safety.
Speaker 2: So here we go. If safety is not there, game
Speaker 2: over for everything else.
Speaker 1: And safety means a lot of different things, right, Sophie.
Speaker 2: So safety is not just the absence of threat, It
Speaker 2: is the presence of connection. So again, either you're being
Speaker 2: traumatized by you know, the saber tooth tiger telling your
Speaker 2: brain to boot woop ring the bell, or you're longing
Speaker 2: for presents that you're just not getting and you feel
Speaker 2: empty and you feel disconnected, because we need human connection
Speaker 2: to feel safe, healthy human connection.
Speaker 1: I know that you talk a lot about the Vegas nerve.
Speaker 1: I actually interviewed a doctor about the Vegas nerve and
Speaker 1: I found it fascinating and I was like, where have
Speaker 1: I been? Why don't I know about this Vegas nerve
Speaker 1: that has such a powerful impact and that can be
Speaker 1: actually moderated or stimulated or things can be done to it.
Speaker 1: So help us understand the Vegas nerve, because I know
Speaker 1: you spend a lot of time talking about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, with pleasure. And by the way, like I don't
Speaker 2: have everything figured out, And I learned more about the
Speaker 2: vegas nerve while writing this books. So it's it's O Kate,
Speaker 2: you just came to this information. So let let's make
Speaker 2: it simple. So the vagus nerve. Everybody has one. Every
Speaker 2: single human being on this plant has a vegus nerve
Speaker 2: and it's the longest cranial nerve in your body. So
Speaker 2: it really like flows from the brain stem down into
Speaker 2: your throat, down into your chests, down into your abnominal wall,
Speaker 2: into your not into but around your reproductive organs, and
Speaker 2: in the bottom of the pelvis. So the two main
Speaker 2: rolls of the vegus nerve is to communicate from brain
Speaker 2: to organs and organs to brain. Really cool thing to
Speaker 2: learn here is that most of the signals the vegus
Speaker 2: nerve signals from the brain to the gut come from
Speaker 2: the gut to the brain. This means that our gut
Speaker 2: health fuels our brain health. And we've been talking about
Speaker 2: this in nutrition and I talk about it in the
Speaker 2: book even more so that's the first responsibility. Then the
Speaker 2: second responsibility is for the vagus nerve to help us
Speaker 2: go into a parasympathetic therefore rest and digest mode as
Speaker 2: human beings. So when we tone the Vegas nerve. We
Speaker 2: call it vaguel tone. There is a ventral part to
Speaker 2: the Vegas nerve which is above the diati friend, which
Speaker 2: is kind of like where your ribs are, And then
Speaker 2: there's the dorsal part which is under the diaphragm, and
Speaker 2: the eventual endoor school communicate together and it's a nice dance.
Speaker 2: It's a titration. But here's the thing where you're constantly
Speaker 2: stuck in your stress and just depleted, fatigued, you know,
Speaker 2: insomniac state, overwhelmed. Then the Vegas nerve is like, what
Speaker 2: is going on? How do I regulate this? There are
Speaker 2: simple exercises that we can do to regulate the Vegas nerve,
Speaker 2: and I teach them in yoga classes, in yoga nidra classes.
Speaker 2: I teach them in meditation classes because they're so simple
Speaker 2: and a student can do them before attesting them. You
Speaker 2: can do it before you present you know something in
Speaker 2: to a boss and a company. You can do it
Speaker 2: because the kids are driving you crazy and you need
Speaker 2: five minutes you're locked into your bathroom to be able
Speaker 2: to do it. They're easy and they all have to
Speaker 2: do with breath. Let's reminder ourselves you're this one universal shoes.
Speaker 2: We come into lies inhaling, we come out of life
Speaker 2: exhaling most of the time.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, So the.
Speaker 2: Breath is the little conductor between the body and the soul,
Speaker 2: and the breath makes sense, you know. It's the only
Speaker 2: autonomic function of the body. So something that happens by
Speaker 2: itself that we can actually as humans intervene on. It's
Speaker 2: the only function. So when we intervene on the vegas nerve,
Speaker 2: we intervene on everything because the vegus nerve is responsible
Speaker 2: for breathing, salization, a pupil ditation, heart beat, and digestion.
Speaker 2: So when we intervene on the vegas nerve, we can
Speaker 2: intervene on all these bodily functions, which is quite extraord
Speaker 2: to be honest, because it's not sorcery and it's quite
Speaker 2: simple to integrate in our lives.
Speaker 1: It's the little nerve that could, right, It's like, that's
Speaker 1: it amazing And I know vegas is the Latin word
Speaker 1: for wandering.
Speaker 2: Wandering, yes, because it goes and bewearing to the body,
Speaker 2: like it has to feel like little little veins everywhere,
Speaker 2: little networks of veins, you.
Speaker 1: Know, and doesn't it also Sophie have something to do
Speaker 1: with inflammation, because I was talking to this doctor and
Speaker 1: he was saying, this older gentleman who wanted to play tennis,
Speaker 1: but he was just really his joints were too sore something,
Speaker 1: he was having muscle issues. He did some regulation of
Speaker 1: the vegus nerve and it was like suddenly the inflammation
Speaker 1: was gone. Do you know much about that?
Speaker 2: So what I do know, which is fascinating, I'm trying
Speaker 2: to research it more by reading. So doctor Gabormatte wrote
Speaker 2: a book called When the Body Says No, and he
Speaker 2: has been researching the relationship between these pycological the mind,
Speaker 2: the brain right, and our immune system. So if the
Speaker 2: vagus nervous responsible for our regulation, our stress response, and
Speaker 2: our relaxation, okay, what is the role of our emotional system? Okay?
Speaker 2: So the role of or emotional system is to push
Speaker 2: away what is artful or harmful and to keep what
Speaker 2: is healthy and nourishing. Okay. So even a baby will
Speaker 2: do that. You know, they can't even feel the deep
Speaker 2: hatred because they'd have to be. They have to have
Speaker 2: this survival and instinct of Noah, I love die. There's
Speaker 2: no way that I can survive without it. So what
Speaker 2: is the role of the immune system. It's the same thing.
Speaker 2: It pushes away what is harmful and keeps bacterialized, for example,
Speaker 2: what is nourishing. So what he's found is that so
Speaker 2: many women and you're not going to be surprised by this,
Speaker 2: who are the nucleus of the family, who are holding
Speaker 2: the emotional lobes of their family, who are putting their
Speaker 2: need first before everybody else's because they don't have enough
Speaker 2: help and support in the structure in our society don't
Speaker 2: support that as well, they are most likely to suffer
Speaker 2: from many chronically immune diseases, chronic immune diseases. So there
Speaker 2: is a link. There is a holistic approach now in
Speaker 2: modern medicine where they are proving that there is a
Speaker 2: link between our immunity and our psychology, which is I
Speaker 2: find absolutely fascinating.
Speaker 1: That is fascinating and isn't it crazy. I remember interviewing
Speaker 1: I think his name was Herbert Benson from Harvard when
Speaker 1: I was on the Today Show and he wrote a
Speaker 1: book called The Mind Body Connection, And it was when
Speaker 1: my husband had been diagnosed with cancer, and he spent
Speaker 1: a little time with me helping me deal with the
Speaker 1: stress that I was under, which was obviously unbelievable. But
Speaker 1: you know, back then, so this was in the late nineties,
Speaker 1: it was pretty radical to be talking about the mind
Speaker 1: body connection. Why do you think it took scientists, the
Speaker 1: medical community, the psychological community, or psychiatric community. Why did
Speaker 1: it take so long for people to understand how these
Speaker 1: things were so so intertwined.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure I had to as dress to watch.
Speaker 1: And by the way, Sophie, sorry to interrupt you, but
Speaker 1: I was thinking. I think in a lot of ancient
Speaker 1: religions and ancient practices and rituals, this was accepted. You know,
Speaker 1: if you think about yoga, if you think about all
Speaker 1: kinds of holistic practices, and you know, rituals from all
Speaker 1: over the world. I think this was accepted. But at
Speaker 1: least for modern medicine, it took forever for it to
Speaker 1: be an acceptable area to even study.
Speaker 2: I absolutely agree with you, Katie. And there's like three
Speaker 2: annuals to this answer. The first one is the body
Speaker 2: keeps the score, and that's the title of the book
Speaker 2: from Besser Brander called the great doctor who has proven
Speaker 2: that you know, if you have a trauma in your
Speaker 2: childhood and you don't talk about it and you try
Speaker 2: to repress it. The body knows. The body knows, and
Speaker 2: it can be triggered in any instance. And where you
Speaker 2: feel an aggression, that is not a true aggression, but
Speaker 2: your body interprets it that way because it's still traumatized
Speaker 2: and you haven't healed in your body, you know. In
Speaker 2: regards to that, the second one is women's bodies have
Speaker 2: only newly been explored in modern medicine because all the
Speaker 2: tests of the science and the research was being done
Speaker 2: on men's bodies. So that's also another answer. And you know,
Speaker 2: I think it's like in Leonardo da Vinci days when
Speaker 2: they were exploring anatomically the human body. The Church would
Speaker 2: give the bodies to the scientifics and they would say,
Speaker 2: you have teftabranch. You can look at everything we wanted
Speaker 2: to understand, but there's one thing you won't touch.
Speaker 1: What do you think that is the brain?
Speaker 2: You got it the mind that belongs to the church.
Speaker 2: Now we have the freedom to explore our own minds.
Speaker 2: And I have sales because because to me, science is
Speaker 2: a form of freedom, because it protects the truth. Because
Speaker 2: we live in a world where the truth is being distorted,
Speaker 2: where free press is being you know, is dangerously hijacked
Speaker 2: in a way and a where our minds are hijacked
Speaker 2: as well, and our bodies at the same time in
Speaker 2: our nervous systems too. So I think it took a
Speaker 2: lot of factors that played into why that it takes
Speaker 2: so long for modern medicine to wake up to this.
Speaker 2: It's about time. But I'm very hopeful because now the
Speaker 2: brain is being researched like crazy, and we are getting
Speaker 2: more and more knowledge, and it's just the beginning, and
Speaker 2: there's people all over the world who are actually collaborating
Speaker 2: with other teams across the world to share knowledge and data,
Speaker 2: which is extremely important because that's a scientific legacy and
Speaker 2: an emotional legacy in a way that will leave for
Speaker 2: generations that will come after us.
Speaker 1: Now, you're right, and I think part of the problem
Speaker 1: was technology has certainly changed this, but it was you know,
Speaker 1: you can't exactly get tissue samples from the brain, so
Speaker 1: I know, with things like antidepressants, it was very anecdotal
Speaker 1: about the impact they were having. And now with modern technology,
Speaker 1: with brain scans, with just much more sophisticated ways of
Speaker 1: monitoring brain activity, I think it's a really exciting time
Speaker 1: for research in this arena that heretofore just wasn't you know,
Speaker 1: practically possible to really be a part of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was talking to i think one of the
Speaker 2: head researchers at Cornell in New York, and he was
Speaker 2: explaining how scientifics have now found what they call a
Speaker 2: salience network in the brain where depresses patients. When you
Speaker 2: look at the imagery which they took sixty times for
Speaker 2: sixty days, sixty times a day on sixty people or
Speaker 2: something like that, and they really monitored every single change
Speaker 2: and they realized that a portion of that area in
Speaker 2: the green was kind of taken over other networks. And
Speaker 2: in my book, when I interviewed George Northoff, who wrote
Speaker 2: Numeral Waves, who was the head of the Autowa General
Speaker 2: and Mental Health, he said, so you have no idea
Speaker 2: how depression is really a misalignment in rhythm from the
Speaker 2: brain to the human environment. So depressed people will have
Speaker 2: much slower boy waves. They feel like life is passing
Speaker 2: them by and everything is slower, and they can't get
Speaker 2: out of bed and everything becomes heavy, and it's a
Speaker 2: lack of syncrony between the brain and the environment. And
Speaker 2: for example, there's non invasive ways to stimulate areas of
Speaker 2: the brain for anxiety and depression that are just transcranial stimulation,
Speaker 2: so through you know, electric signals. Also, classical music is
Speaker 2: being used as well to calm the nervous system.
Speaker 1: And just interviewed Renee Fleming about her book about music
Speaker 1: and the brain, and it was fascinating to see what
Speaker 1: a huge impact. I mean, you should definitely read that.
Speaker 2: I'm going to read that, Renee Frond, and you would.
Speaker 1: Totally geek out on that. And I also think these scientists,
Speaker 1: by the way, must be so thrilled because you're giving
Speaker 1: exposure to their work to a lay audience. You know,
Speaker 1: they're not just in scientific medical journals. You're translating it
Speaker 1: and dare I say, probably in a nice way, dumbing
Speaker 1: it down so the average person can understand it.
Speaker 2: Well, it was you and meeting before the knowledge got
Speaker 2: to us. So dumbing it down just really means simplifying
Speaker 2: what is complex and for us to integrate it. And
Speaker 2: when we're educated with that base. Let's say we educated
Speaker 2: our young people at a young age on this, then
Speaker 2: they could integrate the more complex information as they grow
Speaker 2: so much more easily. So One of the biggest worries
Speaker 2: that I have now is if when you're looking at
Speaker 2: the research and how we use our telephones and how
Speaker 2: we're constantly on screens and constantly distracted and you know,
Speaker 2: looking for the next dopamine high, the relaxing hormones become.
Speaker 1: Boring, right, and you need more and more of your
Speaker 1: threshold for stimulation gets higher and higher.
Speaker 2: That's it. That's it. So it's very hard to get
Speaker 2: them to meditate or to slow down, or to be
Speaker 2: in contact with nature. But the problem is, and the
Speaker 2: hope is the same place. Is that because we're actually
Speaker 2: impairing the brain development of the child from you know,
Speaker 2: around six years old. It's kind of an experience expectant
Speaker 2: period where the brain of the child is expecting experience
Speaker 2: because the child wants to be independent, wants to take
Speaker 2: low risks at low cost, falling over, you know, sprinting
Speaker 2: a knee, falling down the street. It's okay, I can
Speaker 2: get back cup, I'll be okay, I can continue with
Speaker 2: my day. When we take that away from young people
Speaker 2: and children, how do they actually test their physical and
Speaker 2: psychological limits if they're not in contact with nature, if
Speaker 2: they're not testing those limits at a low cost, low risk,
Speaker 2: because when they come into addlwood and its higher cost,
Speaker 2: higher risks, there's no resilience and the brain hasn't learned
Speaker 2: how to cope with it.
Speaker 1: This is the conversation I had with Jonathan Height about
Speaker 1: his book The Anxious Generation, which obviously is a lot
Speaker 1: about this, you know, constant attention grabbing device that everyone
Speaker 1: has in their hands and never looks up from. So
Speaker 1: he had a long conversation. I'm sure you're going to
Speaker 1: read that book too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, I'm going to read. I've been looking
Speaker 2: at his work and he's a part of it is
Speaker 2: really fascinating. The other thing you made me think of something,
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, is that add to that the fact that
Speaker 2: in our society when we look at you know, the
Speaker 2: Andrew Taite movements and the you know, all those kind
Speaker 2: of men who are kind of triggering the seer in
Speaker 2: other men and the pride and just feel a sense
Speaker 2: of community, but in all the wrong ways. What's happening
Speaker 2: is that we're allowing men to exude only to emotions
Speaker 2: lust rage. So when we do that, not only are
Speaker 2: we insulting men's intelligence, but we're narrowing the concept of
Speaker 2: what it means to be a man, and it is
Speaker 2: having repercussions in every family, in every home, in every
Speaker 2: society and across this planet. So our structures, for for example,
Speaker 2: parental leave is extremely important, so dads can actually have
Speaker 2: an active role in what it means to hold a
Speaker 2: household together and to hold the emotional load of the family,
Speaker 2: the children as well. It's so much to carry by ourselves.
Speaker 2: And no kidding that women are depleted, overwhelmed and not
Speaker 2: sleeping and somniaest the disturbances are an epidemic in themselves
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: After the break, Sophie on how being a public figure
Speaker 1: can feel like being a pinata. If you want to
Speaker 1: get smarter every morning with a breakdown of the news
Speaker 1: and fascinating takes on health and wellness and pop culture,
Speaker 1: sign up for our daily newsletter, Wake Up Call by
Speaker 1: going to Katiecouric dot com. Now more of my conversation
Speaker 1: with Sophie Trudeau. I can't wait for people to read
Speaker 1: your book because I think it is going to be
Speaker 1: so helpful in this stressed out world that we're living in.
Speaker 1: But I don't want to end this conversation without asking
Speaker 1: you how you're doing you know, I feel like we're
Speaker 1: kindred spirits in some ways because we both experienced being
Speaker 1: somewhat you much more so than I, Sophie, but public figures,
Speaker 1: and I know that you have written about that in
Speaker 1: your book. You were very candid about what it was
Speaker 1: like to be the de facto first lady, which really
Speaker 1: makes you a target for people to project whatever it
Speaker 1: is they want onto you. You're a blank canvas and
Speaker 1: even though they don't know you, they believe they do.
Speaker 1: And I'm curious how your time in the public eye
Speaker 1: has affected your emotional well being and your sense of self,
Speaker 1: if it was a struggle, and how you were able
Speaker 1: to move on from that.
Speaker 2: So I've heard you call, you know, the political system
Speaker 2: or the public personality sphere as the pinonta, like people
Speaker 2: you know, just banging without even know wh And yeah,
Speaker 2: that is a reality. And I have much more compassion
Speaker 2: and empathy for young families who are trying to raise
Speaker 2: kids in this kind of environment, because it's getting more violent,
Speaker 2: more cruel, more polarizing, and more divisive now. And I'm
Speaker 2: glad that I wasn't in my twenties as my mother
Speaker 2: in law had to live, you know, But it was
Speaker 2: different than then, but still with bipolar disease, and she
Speaker 2: had to go through all of that, which is I
Speaker 2: can't even imagine what that is like. I see it
Speaker 2: as a gift in disguise because it allowed me to
Speaker 2: dig so deep into who I am and who who
Speaker 2: I was and who I'm becoming as well, which is
Speaker 2: a work in progress. It's messy sometimes, but that's okay.
Speaker 2: I also never lived thinking, oh, I'm the first lady,
Speaker 2: and oh this man that I love is the prime Minister.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 2: I've met enough king queens, people with incredible titles and accomplishments,
Speaker 2: and people who have none. And I know for a
Speaker 2: fact that we're all the You can say that we
Speaker 2: have the same you know, sense and longing to be
Speaker 2: loved and validated for who we are and to express
Speaker 2: our true selves. And remember that safety is key. You
Speaker 2: might be surrounded by everything you need in your life
Speaker 2: and crowns and whatever you want to call them, but
Speaker 2: if do you all feel safe, it's getting over. Your
Speaker 2: nervous system is in a sympathetic mode and it is
Speaker 2: what it is. So I think it provokes me and
Speaker 2: on my OPI mat What I can say is that
Speaker 2: there were lots and lots of tears, of confusion, of fog,
Speaker 2: of you know, drops of sweats of sweat, and trying
Speaker 2: to navigate my own in the world, thinking who am
Speaker 2: I in all of this? And now I see it
Speaker 2: with the gratitude, and I'm not perfect. I'm still trying
Speaker 2: to figure it out, but I'm still dedicated to my
Speaker 2: practice and to finding my center so I can actually
Speaker 2: love myself, be more tender towards myself, be more compassionate,
Speaker 2: so I can offer it to human beings around me.
Speaker 2: That is my sense of mission in life. That is
Speaker 2: my sense of service. I'm not sure what else is
Speaker 2: there for me that's clear, and that's a gift. And
Speaker 2: to know yourself. And I think you know that an
Speaker 2: unexamined mind is an unexamined life. And wish it shouldn't
Speaker 2: be a luxury to have the time to do so,
Speaker 2: which is in our days right now. But let's make
Speaker 2: it more accessible for everybody.
Speaker 1: I know that, And I'm sure everyone's asked you this, Sophie,
Speaker 1: so I'm sort of doing it out of the sense
Speaker 1: of obligation for people who say, what didn't you ask
Speaker 1: her about this? But I know it was announced that
Speaker 1: you and your husband, Justin Trudeau, who i've had the
Speaker 1: pleasure of meetings, separated last year. You handed this book
Speaker 1: in prior to that separation, and I'm curious how you're
Speaker 1: doing with that because it's not a trauma necessarily, I
Speaker 1: guess it can be, but it's a massive life change,
Speaker 1: and that I think that's a watershed moment in someone's life.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's several obviously throughout your life. But how
Speaker 1: has that impacted the way you're re examining who you
Speaker 1: are and serving other people in the process.
Speaker 2: So a couple of things here. I do believe that
Speaker 2: in some cases separations or divorces can be traumatic for
Speaker 2: the adults and for the children.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, obviously. And I just think in your case,
Speaker 1: from you and I having a conversation, it doesn't sound
Speaker 1: is if it sounds like it doesn't fall in that category.
Speaker 1: But yes, for the record, of course, of course, and.
Speaker 2: It does hurt. It hurts a lot, and it hurts
Speaker 2: deeply because in a way, we have these two words
Speaker 2: in our language. You know, marriage is success. Separation of
Speaker 2: divorces failure. But life happens in between, and we dramatize
Speaker 2: our relationships because we are insecure. We are afraid to
Speaker 2: be abandoned. We are afraid to be alone. As human beings,
Speaker 2: it is not in our nature to be alone and
Speaker 2: just living alone. Some have done it, but it's not
Speaker 2: in our global human nature. I have a very open conversation,
Speaker 2: open communication relationship with my kids and with Justin. We
Speaker 2: are still abandoned by love and respect and smiles and tears,
Speaker 2: and we're still trying to figure it out and it's
Speaker 2: not perfect. But when you keep things honest, Michael J.
Speaker 2: Fox said, we're only as sick as our secrets. Be
Speaker 2: careful with the secrets that you hold, because when you
Speaker 2: sit with lies or betrayals, or you know, whatever your
Speaker 2: story is, and you sit with that and you keep
Speaker 2: it aside, it builds up and it can become kind
Speaker 2: of like your monster to deal with every day. So
Speaker 2: when he said that, I was like, hmm, that's interesting.
Speaker 2: It kind of resonated with me. So I think that
Speaker 2: we should be careful in how we talk about relationships.
Speaker 2: And yes, you know, when the unconscious conscious uncoupling expression
Speaker 2: came up, I think a lot of people kind of sighed,
Speaker 2: and you know, we could find other ways of calling
Speaker 2: our relationships that doesn't have to be separation or divorced,
Speaker 2: but from a legal perspective and from protecting so many
Speaker 2: vulnerable mothers and women, you know, the law is so important.
Speaker 2: But what I'm trying to say is that if we
Speaker 2: become better regulated, if we become less threatened by the
Speaker 2: difference of the other, which is what we're threatened with
Speaker 2: in conflict in our personal relationships. Ninety nine percent of
Speaker 2: the time, we think people interpret life the way we do,
Speaker 2: but that's not how it works out. And when we
Speaker 2: feel less threatened, we dedramatize our relationship to ourselves and
Speaker 2: to others. So securing our nervous system, understanding the wirings
Speaker 2: under our personality is not only tools to pacify, can
Speaker 2: you say that, to make our relationships more peaceful to
Speaker 2: ourselves and with others, but it's also kind of a
Speaker 2: global palmer for our democracies and society because when you
Speaker 2: look at the ploralizing and divided forces out there, I
Speaker 2: can assure you that most people who are in hatred
Speaker 2: and fear mode are in their sympathetic nervous system. So again,
Speaker 2: the neural, biological, and enterative behind all of.
Speaker 1: That, well, you're a very wise woman, Sophie Trudeau, and
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that you've written this book Closer Together.
Speaker 1: I think it will help a lot of people and
Speaker 1: will change behavior, hopefully some hearts and minds, because we
Speaker 1: do seem to have a lot of hate, anchor and
Speaker 1: rage and unhappiness in our society. And I think, maybe
Speaker 1: you know, social media has provided a platform for people
Speaker 1: to express it. But I think things are good as
Speaker 1: they are now, and hopefully they'll get better as we
Speaker 1: realize this is not necessarily a way to live.
Speaker 2: So I'd like to just note and maybe conclude that,
Speaker 2: you know, when animals, when animals are sick, Okay, when
Speaker 2: mammals get sick, they stop playing. When we are sick,
Speaker 2: we stop playing, humor, playfulness, creativity, movement. It is necessary
Speaker 2: to our health. And when we stop playing, and I'm
Speaker 2: not talking about just like monopoly or straggle like unstructured plate,
Speaker 2: being good, mischievous together, not hurting each other, but you know,
Speaker 2: pulling pranks, which I'd love to do, and I talk
Speaker 2: about that in the book as well, you know, laugh
Speaker 2: together kind of when we laugh, when we play, when
Speaker 2: we let go, the brain is in restoration mode and
Speaker 2: just very quickly. This gives me chills. But when doctor
Speaker 2: Gordon Nufeld, who's in my book, who's a specialist on
Speaker 2: teenage health and chill did it was called by teachers
Speaker 2: in Ukraine while the war is raging. They asked him
Speaker 2: what do I do with the children? What do we do?
Speaker 2: There are in alert mode, there are stressed out, they're
Speaker 2: infer mode. They're little children. And he said, you take
Speaker 2: the curriculum, you put it aside, and you let the
Speaker 2: children play. Let them play, because when those bombs are falling,
Speaker 2: their brain is still feeling that they're safe enough to
Speaker 2: live and to thrive. So if we can integrate that
Speaker 2: while there are injustices going around and taking place on
Speaker 2: this planet Earth, into the microhabits that we can have
Speaker 2: in our relative peaceful lives, we can change. We can
Speaker 2: change our lives, and we can change our environment. And
Speaker 2: let's never let the darker forces take over. No way,
Speaker 2: I'm never gonna let that happen in my existence. That's free.
Speaker 1: I'm not either, No, I know that, And I love
Speaker 1: you for it. Sophie, Thank you so much. It's great
Speaker 1: to see you. Best of luck with the book and
Speaker 1: the book tour and I can't wait to see you
Speaker 1: in person soon. I hope Matthew what I mean of what?
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me,
Speaker 1: a subject you want us to cover, or you want
Speaker 1: to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy
Speaker 1: world reach out. You can leave a short message at
Speaker 1: six h nine five point two five five five, or
Speaker 1: you can send me a DM on Instagram. I would
Speaker 1: love to hear from you. Next Question is a production
Speaker 1: of iHeartMedia and Katie Couric Media. The executive producers are Me,
Speaker 1: Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz,
Speaker 1: and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian
Speaker 1: Weller composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode,
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