1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Life can be a lot, and it helps to have 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: a therapist by your side. Register at talkspace dot com 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: to connect with a licensed therapist within days for virtual support. 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: Talkspace is in network with major insurers no insurance. Now 5 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 1: get eighty five dollars off of your first month with 6 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: promo code Katie when you go to talkspace dot com 7 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: slash Katiekuric. Hi everyone, I'm Katikuric and this is next question. 8 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: You've probably heard the name Sophie Trudeau, right, the young, 9 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: glamorous wife of Justin Trudeau, the Prime Minister of Canada. 10 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: But Sophie is a whole lot more than that. As 11 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: a mental health advocate for the last twenty years, she 12 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: is as passionate as she is compassionate. Her mission has 13 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: been to better understand herself so we can all better 14 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: understand each other. Her new book is called Closer Together, 15 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: Knowing Ourselves, Loving each Other, and she candidly shares a 16 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: lot about her life and struggles. But Sophie also has 17 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: incorporated the best science and interviewed the leading researchers about 18 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: how our brain handles life's biggest challenges. Her book tackles 19 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: everything from mindfulness to the function of this thing we 20 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,960 Speaker 1: all have called the biggest nerve. The book is fascinating 21 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: and best of all, it's hopeful. There really are simple 22 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: things we can all do to live a more peaceful life. 23 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: And here's a little hint, it's all about our nervous systems. 24 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: So here's my conversation with Sophie Trudeau. Sophie, congratulations on 25 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: your book. How does it feel putting it out in 26 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:50,559 Speaker 1: the world. Are you excited, terrified? 27 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 2: What a little mix of everything? But to be honest 28 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 2: right now, because people have read it in the advance 29 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: and the response that I've been getting has been overwhelmingly 30 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 2: touching and supportive, and I'm pinching myself, yes, because it 31 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 2: was a labor of love and you know, teamwork. And 32 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 2: it's not that I'm yes, I'm proud of the content, 33 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,679 Speaker 2: but I really want this book to serve. I want 34 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 2: people to be able to have the tools to better 35 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 2: know themselves so they can navigate the fault of life 36 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 2: that feels overwhelming, you know, feeling more secure and more confident. 37 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 1: It's a really wonderful format because it almost feels like 38 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: an amalgamation of a memoir, a journal, a personal exploration, 39 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: but also an exploration outside of yourself someone who is 40 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: a reporter searching for answers. So tell me how you 41 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: came upon this format, Sophie, and what you thought before 42 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: you dove into the writing process. 43 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:52,519 Speaker 2: I think the format kind of overtook me. You know, 44 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 2: although I'm a you know, I'm a great I'm a 45 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,359 Speaker 2: type a so organizer or you know, things have to 46 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 2: be in category reason when I'm working, and my desk 47 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 2: had to be clean and all that. But for me, 48 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:05,399 Speaker 2: the book was kind of like a labor of love 49 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 2: where I only know, you know now at forty nine 50 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 2: that we can only teach by experience. Therefore, I could 51 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 2: include my story and have a sense of integrity, of 52 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 2: congruence that people understand that if I expose myself and 53 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 2: my vulnerability, that they feel safe enough to do the same. 54 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 2: And then I've had the privilege in a way and 55 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 2: the chance throughout my twenty years of advocacy for mental health, 56 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 2: and you know, my ambassadorship working with different kinds of 57 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 2: organizations on a volunteer basis, really was to bring together 58 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 2: experts and have access to science, to knowledge. And I'm 59 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 2: super curious. I'm an eternal student. I'm never going to stop, 60 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 2: you know, eating up what I'm passionate about. And I 61 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 2: told myself, I have access to all of this, I'm 62 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 2: learning on my own path. Well what's the point if 63 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 2: I don't share with other people? And because I do 64 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 2: what I do, I see people are suffering, and I 65 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 2: see that people are anxious that are depleted or try 66 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 2: to read, you know know, make ends meet. And there's 67 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 2: a neural by biological imperative behind all of that. So 68 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 2: I wanted to this science and the best experts in 69 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 2: their industry, in fields and domains to be able to 70 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 2: really make it accessible for everybody, whether you're a teenager 71 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 2: or you know a young adult or somebody who's aging, 72 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,679 Speaker 2: that it's all accessible to everybody. And I think that 73 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 2: that's working out well as of now with the comments 74 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 2: that I'm getting. So I just can't wait to get 75 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 2: more comments all the people who will be reading it 76 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 2: and canally it's so important. 77 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 1: Meredith, who produced this segment for me, was talking about 78 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:33,799 Speaker 1: the format and the conversational the dialogue that you capture 79 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 1: in the pages of this book, which she said made 80 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: it feel much more readable and understandable than maybe an 81 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: essay written by an expert that it really lent itself 82 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: to accessibility, and I think when people see someone else learning, 83 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: they're much more likely to take the journey with that person. 84 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: When I did a documentary about our changing notion of 85 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: gender identity, I sort of brought people along with me 86 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: as I asked questions and channeled what I thought they 87 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: would ask. And I think you used the same technique 88 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: in your book, didn't you for me? 89 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,919 Speaker 2: I mean, yes, you're right that it is a technique, 90 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 2: but that's not how I used it. I didn't think, 91 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 2: in my mind, I'm going to use this technique. What 92 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 2: I wanted was to have a conversation with the people 93 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 2: and the peacemakers that I love to call scientists who 94 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 2: are trying to better understand how our brains work, how 95 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 2: our bodies work, and why we have the personality that 96 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 2: we do. So I wanted it to be conversational, and 97 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 2: in the conversation there's no real protocol, there's no you know, 98 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 2: titles are not important. It's just you to me. When 99 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 2: I think of the people, I don't think of other people. 100 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 2: I think of me, so and them and us together. 101 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 2: So I tried to really be in that conversation immerse 102 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 2: myself in that conversation, keeps things straightforward, authentic and simple, 103 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 2: and to make it accessible for everybody. And you know, 104 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 2: I think that right now, I've had you know, grandparents, parents, 105 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 2: teenagers read it. And I'm so touched, especially by youth, 106 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 2: because sometimes we think, oh, you know, they won't have 107 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 2: the maturity to understand, or it's so untrue. Our young 108 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 2: people are so ready to receive resting wisdom because they're 109 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 2: so overpowered and overwhelmed by information that I just really 110 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 2: hope that more young people as well will be exposed 111 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 2: to It's kind of content. 112 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: Why do you think this is the right book at 113 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 1: the right time, Because it does feel like the world 114 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: is chaotic, people are overwhelmed, and there are just a 115 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,679 Speaker 1: lot of people who I think are feeling somewhat lost. 116 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: And I'm wondering if do we know about it more 117 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: because of social media, because our easy access to information, 118 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: or does this feel, for you, Sophie, like a particularly 119 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 1: fraught time, not only in America but in Canada, in 120 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 1: so many places around the world. And maybe it's because 121 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: we're witnessing such enormous change. 122 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 2: Such enormous change, well fed Katie, in such a short 123 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 2: period of time, the telephone and the slip phone and 124 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 2: then the you know, reverse screen and self be It 125 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 2: changed our brain, it changed our kids' brains. And because 126 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 2: we come into the world with two main intrinsic vistubal needs. 127 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 2: First onanted attachment to be in the care of somebody, 128 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 2: under their touch, their gaze, their their presence, their joyful presence, 129 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 2: their their playfulness. Right, that sets a tone in our 130 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 2: brain and every single human being our bonnot attachment with 131 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 2: the person who took care of us, whether it was 132 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 2: a grandparent and auntie, your mother, or a father. It 133 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 2: leaves an imprint in our brain that we charty that 134 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 2: into our teenage years, rebellious or not, and into our 135 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 2: adulthood and the child within us is still active. So 136 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 2: that's the first thing attachment. The second thing is authenticity. 137 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 2: So every human being comes up to this earth with 138 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 2: a unique personnality and we're meant to express that uniqueness 139 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 2: and that's a form of creativity. And therefore, in order 140 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 2: to be loved, we change and we modify our behavior 141 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 2: in order to please and be loved, and we all 142 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 2: do it by the way we do it as children 143 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 2: to be loved by our parents. We do it as 144 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 2: adults in our loving relationships and in our friendships, because 145 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,679 Speaker 2: we want to be loved and validated in our own emotions. 146 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 2: And we do it on different levels, of course, you know, 147 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 2: depending on if that bond of attachment is more secure, 148 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 2: it insecure or disorganized, which which turned the three big families. 149 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:34,680 Speaker 2: So if you think that the child with you and 150 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 2: you not then is not active, now you're going to 151 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 2: be surprised by what you learn in this book and 152 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 2: to bring them back to what we're living in the 153 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 2: world right now, Katie, the opposing forces, the darker forces. 154 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:47,959 Speaker 2: You know, we have the better angels of our nature. 155 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 2: We have positivity, we have hope, we have creativity, we 156 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 2: have self awareness and discernment and perspective. But then we 157 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 2: have also the bad wolves. And it's all in us 158 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 2: as well, the hatred, the division, the paralizing, the confusion, 159 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 2: the illusion, the not understanding, and we all have it 160 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 2: inside of us. And as the old Shayan proverb says, well, 161 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 2: those two wolves are always fighting, which one is going 162 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 2: to win. It's the one we feed. 163 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: It's like they it and the ego exactly. 164 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 2: And I have chills right now because in the world 165 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 2: we live in we want to be esthentic, but we 166 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 2: keep being rewarded for self betrayal, whether it's physically. We 167 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 2: can't appear the way we do because it's not okay. 168 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:27,599 Speaker 2: The lions are not on the right spot, and we 169 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 2: shouldn't be aging because we should be behaving a certain 170 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 2: way and not the way that we really want to 171 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 2: behave because we're being judged by you know, hundreds or 172 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 2: thousands or millions of people out there through social media 173 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 2: without even knowing them, and without them even knowing us. 174 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 2: So the connection that we're supposed to have naturally face 175 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 2: to face, the security presence is really fragmented and is 176 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 2: really eroded, and that is making us suffer physically and mentally. 177 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 2: So we're not surprised to learn that during the pandemic, 178 00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 2: eating disorders were up the right, depression was up, the right, 179 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 2: anxiety was up the right, and again there's a neurobiological 180 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 2: imperatives behind all of it, because in our nervous system, 181 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 2: you have one, Katie, I have one, everybody listening has one, 182 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 2: and it's all kind of made the same. It's the 183 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 2: autonomic nervous system, and this sympathetic branch is our fight 184 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,439 Speaker 2: flight freeze. So if a cart passes by, we need 185 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 2: to be able to stop, to not be bumped into. 186 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,679 Speaker 2: And then the parasympathetic, which is the rest and digest 187 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 2: so to be able to relax, come to come back 188 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 2: home within ourselves, knowing that. 189 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 1: We're secure and having what they call homeostasis. 190 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 2: Right homeostasis exactly, So to be able to come back 191 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 2: to that shouldn't be kind of a natural state. But 192 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 2: with the stressors that we have constantly in our lives, 193 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 2: the rapidity of information, the clickbait, the quick judgment of 194 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 2: people on social media, what's happening is that too many 195 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 2: people are stuck in their sympathetic fight, flight, freeze vote. 196 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 2: So guess what, when you're in your alert mode, it's 197 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 2: very difficult to have self compassion and compassion and empathy 198 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 2: for others. So look at the state of the world 199 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:09,559 Speaker 2: right now. The dynamics of the pandemic made us in 200 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 2: part lean on our nagtiburs because we had to help 201 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,559 Speaker 2: each other out, but at the same time distance us 202 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 2: from everybody else because we were isolated, and so we 203 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 2: are not only before that there was a mental health crisis, 204 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 2: and I'd been saying it for twenty years and it 205 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 2: tisses me off because it's been there for a long time. 206 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 2: People have been suffering from anxiety from the way we 207 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 2: live for a long time, and the pandemic kind of 208 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 2: exacerbated all of that. So the lesson to be learned 209 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 2: here is one of hope, because not only can we 210 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 2: we wire our nervous our brains and can we regulate 211 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 2: our own nervous systudents, but there's a lot of education 212 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 2: to be done there. It's not as complicated as we think. 213 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 2: So in this book Closer Together, I want to make 214 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 2: sure that the exercises, the technique that the experts talk about, 215 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 2: and the micro habits, the baby steps, they don't have 216 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 2: to be huge leaps for you to transport of your 217 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 2: life because the brain is getting it. And the brain, 218 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 2: by the way, way, when you come back from the office, 219 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 2: you're tired, you're depleted, you want your beer or your 220 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 2: glass of wine, you jump food and your TV. The 221 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 2: brain's like, yes, I have no effort to make. But 222 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 2: as the expert Lori Santo says in my book, we 223 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 2: are in the own way over happiness because the brain 224 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 2: isn't helping us. It just wants to be there on 225 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 2: the couch. We have to say, wait a second, let 226 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 2: me live more consciously, let me take care of myself, 227 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 2: and Lendy know deeply that I am worthy of rest, 228 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 2: but we live in a society where we don't even 229 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 2: think that we are worthy of rest. But rest is 230 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,839 Speaker 2: how the mind and the body makes sense of life. 231 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 2: So think about this on a global scale. 232 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: Tell me how you got so interested in this, Sophie. 233 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: Obviously you are approaching it from a personal and I 234 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: want to ask a little bit about your personal story 235 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: in a moment, but from a very scientific and sort 236 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: of neuroscience point of view, how did you first say 237 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: there are reasons for our emotions? And I want to 238 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 1: understand that better. 239 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 2: So I'm forty nine now. Twenty years ago when I 240 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 2: shared my story as a very young television and radio 241 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 2: hoist in Quebec, one of my girlfriends from high school 242 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 2: had approached me to because she was putting up a 243 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 2: foundation for eating disorders and she knew that I was 244 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 2: suffering because we had talked about it at some point 245 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 2: and I hadn't talked about it with many people, and 246 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 2: she's Sophie, you want to get involved, and like absolutely, 247 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 2: because I had heard so many stories around me, from 248 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 2: girls and from boys who were suffering, and that really 249 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 2: gave a course to my life. And I understood then 250 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 2: that by sharing my story, first of all, I would 251 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 2: be healing myself, you know, and taking the first step 252 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 2: to healing. And then I had to remain curious of 253 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 2: my own condition, to see how am I evolving, how 254 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 2: am I healing? What are the solutions that I can 255 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:45,839 Speaker 2: apply into my own life? 256 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: But also the root causes? 257 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 2: Right, Yes, I was longing, you know, for my father 258 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 2: to be more emotionally pressent. I wanted to save my 259 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 2: mother from herself and my mother from my dad, and 260 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:57,719 Speaker 2: I wanted to save my dad from himself. I was 261 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 2: an only child. Having that savior cape was way too 262 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 2: heavy for me to carry, and I held a lot 263 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 2: of sadness inside of me. And today, even when I 264 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 2: talk about it with all the maturity that I've gained, 265 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 2: with all the life experience, with all the love that 266 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 2: I'm getting, and I still have my parents who are alive, 267 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 2: you know, it still hurts. It still hurts when I 268 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 2: pay attention to the suffering. And I'm sure I'm not alone. 269 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 2: If you go back really with your eyes closed, how 270 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 2: do you talk to yourself, how do you truly feel 271 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 2: and what are your heart's truest wish from when you 272 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 2: were a little child, What was your truest wish And 273 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 2: is that being nourished in your life right now because 274 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 2: a lot of people are suffering in their relationships. So 275 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 2: for me, it's a responsibility to continue to be educated 276 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 2: on the mouth. 277 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: It's interesting because I thought it was fascinating that you 278 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: are an only child and that you did feel responsible. 279 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: I think maybe combined with the fact that you have 280 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: extremely high emotional intelligence and were very sensitive, that you 281 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: felt like you had to fix everything because it was 282 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: just you and your mom and dad. I wonder if 283 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: a lot of only children feel that way. 284 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 2: It's funny you laugh that because I talk to parents who, 285 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 2: you know, found out that I was an only child whatever, 286 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 2: and they come to me and they're like, like, should 287 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 2: I have another one? You know, And they do relate, 288 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 2: and it does resonate, and they do say, I understand 289 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 2: what you're saying because I see it in my child. 290 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 2: And it's not because we're bad parents, you know. And 291 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 2: this is not about finger pointing and saying, oh, you know, 292 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 2: my parents were like this to me. Therefore, it expands 293 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 2: my whole situation, It expands your situation profoundly, artly, yes, 294 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 2: but then we have to realize that we have enough consciousness, 295 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 2: awareness and strength to be able to sit with that pain, 296 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 2: face it, and heal it so that we don't leave 297 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:52,479 Speaker 2: emotional luggage and baggage generations to come. That's the true responsibility. 298 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: It seems in your life, Sophie that you're determined to 299 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: be the one to bring it up. Is that were 300 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: with hard topics like mental illness. So where did you 301 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 1: get this mission to say these things out loud? I mean, 302 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: it wasn't long ago, as you well know, since you've 303 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: been in this space, that these things weren't discussed. I 304 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: think reducing the stigma of mental illness and being much 305 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: more transparent about your own issues as individuals and collectively 306 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: as the society has really undergone this massive transformation. But 307 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: why have you felt it's so important for you to 308 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: bring these things out in the open. 309 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 2: There is no doubt in my mind and in my 310 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 2: heart that the reason why I'm doing this is because 311 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 2: other people paved the way before me. I was following 312 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 2: experts already, because I was interested in the topic, whether 313 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 2: it was you know Yab or Mate or best or 314 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 2: Vandercolt or you know as psychologists in French that it 315 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 2: used to follow as well, And it's just been an 316 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 2: area of passion of mine because you're right, Katie, I 317 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 2: think I became hyper sensitive because it was an only 318 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 2: child and I was surrounded with adults, and I had 319 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 2: to tune in to be able to regulate and to 320 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 2: see how I could save and be loved at the 321 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 2: same time. So I got inspired along the way why 322 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 2: incredible humans who I didn't even think would look at 323 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 2: my book. But when I reached out to doctor gaber Matte, 324 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 2: he read my chapter outline and it took everything I 325 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 2: had because I had read his book in the Realm 326 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 2: of Hungary Ghosts on Addiction is twelve years ago, and 327 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:28,679 Speaker 2: I was like, he's gonna think, why the heck? The 328 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 2: first lady reached out right, so I was self doubting, 329 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 2: and then when we sat down, he's like, hey, wait 330 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 2: a minute, you've got something here, and I see your 331 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,159 Speaker 2: energy and I think people cut through the bs. I 332 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 2: don't have any, so it's a natural way for me 333 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 2: to interact with people and to serve. Yes, it's his 334 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:52,119 Speaker 2: value based mission. But I don't make it theoretical like that. 335 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 2: In my mind, I just feel that I have clarity 336 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,439 Speaker 2: on how I can give to the world, and that 337 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,479 Speaker 2: for me is a gift, that's a blessing that I 338 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 2: have to cherish. 339 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: After this break. Sophie's profoundly insightful take on how trauma 340 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 1: or lack thereof, shapes our lives. Everyone needs someone to 341 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: talk to and text with about life's challenges, and while 342 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: girlfriends are great listeners, there are limits to your group chat. 343 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 1: A talkspace therapist will give you an objective perspective and 344 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: professional guidance. Register at talkspace dot com to connect with 345 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: a licensed therapist within days and you can start messaging 346 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: back and forth and also schedule live video or audio sessions. 347 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: Talkspace is in network with major insurers, and copays are 348 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 1: usually twenty five dollars or less no insurance. Now get 349 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: eighty five dollars off of your first month with promo 350 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 1: code Katie when you go to talkspace dot com slash Katiecuric. 351 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: Match with a licensed therapist at talkspace dot com slash Katiecuric. 352 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 1: We're back with Sophie Trudeau. You just spoke of a doctor, 353 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: Gavr Matte, and he talks a lot about hardwiring. And 354 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: for our listeners who haven't read the book yet or 355 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: just want to have an understanding before they do, what 356 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: exactly are you talking about in terms of hardwiring, because 357 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people will be interested in that. 358 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 2: I love that question and it's super important. So let 359 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 2: me make it simple. So we've been sharing the same 360 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 2: braining for two hundred thousand years, all right, it hasn't 361 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 2: really changed. Now, imagine the brain as a hard disk 362 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 2: of a computer. Okay, so we share that hard disk. Now, 363 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 2: the programming going into that hard disk is different depending 364 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 2: on your early bond of attachment, how you were taken 365 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 2: care of from zero three, and your life experience. So 366 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 2: et p genetics, how the environment can affect your brain 367 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 2: and even you know yourselves exactly. It's fascinating. And then 368 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,399 Speaker 2: we learn how what we bring our attention to, what 369 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 2: would we consume, how we sleep, what we hang out with, 370 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 2: what we put in our bodies as food, how we 371 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 2: interact with ourselves and others. That's the fabric overalized, and 372 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,439 Speaker 2: that is our mental health. You don't have to stuffer 373 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 2: from a mental illness to be on this on the 374 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,719 Speaker 2: kind of big circle or spectrum of mental health, and 375 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 2: we're all one trauma away from each other. And I 376 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,199 Speaker 2: remember discussing this with doctor Mattley that you know, it 377 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 2: takes only a series of chronic little traumas or a 378 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 2: huge trauma that you've been through to change your brain, 379 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 2: to change the way you perceive yourself, especially if you 380 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 2: don't talk about it, and to change the way you 381 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 2: interact with the world. But here's the secret. Trauma isn't 382 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,919 Speaker 2: just what happened to you that was that. Trauma is 383 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 2: also what should have happened that did not take place. 384 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,360 Speaker 2: And most people are not really aware of that. They 385 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 2: long for something in their relationship. They feel that a 386 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 2: piece is missing somewhere, like we're undernourished or we're getting 387 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 2: emotional breadcrumbs and we want more. While that is the 388 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,679 Speaker 2: child who's still longing for something. And you know, we 389 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 2: do have to be careful to not see this as 390 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 2: a childish thing. It is not to be able to 391 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 2: be aware and cognizant and conscious of our emotional patterns 392 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 2: is a sign of emotional maturity and emotional leadership. So 393 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 2: imagine what kind of leaders we would have all through schools, organizations, companies, 394 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 2: government countries if people were better regulated and knew how 395 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 2: to understand their emotions. In the book, I talk with 396 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 2: David Livingstone Smith, who's an expert on dehumanization, and he 397 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 2: explains how hatred is really a deep longing for connection. 398 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 2: So it is clear that all these people who are 399 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 2: committing a trial teeth probably have deep trauma and attachment, 400 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:06,440 Speaker 2: you know, trauma disorder. 401 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: Right or what you what you said, which I think 402 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 1: is so brilliant. It's it's the lack of something. It's 403 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: not something horrific that happened to you. It's something good 404 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: that never happened to you. 405 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,360 Speaker 2: Yes, or it's boat, or it's one. But the lefting 406 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 2: here is that we should not compare each other suffering. 407 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 2: You could live in a castle with all the most 408 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 2: expensive cars if that was your dream, and you have 409 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 2: all your objects that are surrounding you. It's not my dream, 410 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 2: but maybe it's your dream, not yours, Katie. But you know, 411 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 2: some people like to humulate wealth. But you're profoundly unhappy 412 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:45,159 Speaker 2: and you feel insecure because on Abraham Maslow's pyramid, that 413 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 2: triangle that says which basic needs are the most important 414 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 2: in every human being, having a roof over your head, 415 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 2: having food on the table to nourish yourself, and safety. 416 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 2: So here we go. If safety is not there, game 417 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 2: over for everything else. 418 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: And safety means a lot of different things, right, Sophie. 419 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 2: So safety is not just the absence of threat, It 420 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 2: is the presence of connection. So again, either you're being 421 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 2: traumatized by you know, the saber tooth tiger telling your 422 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 2: brain to boot woop ring the bell, or you're longing 423 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 2: for presents that you're just not getting and you feel 424 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 2: empty and you feel disconnected, because we need human connection 425 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,719 Speaker 2: to feel safe, healthy human connection. 426 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 1: I know that you talk a lot about the Vegas nerve. 427 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: I actually interviewed a doctor about the Vegas nerve and 428 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: I found it fascinating and I was like, where have 429 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: I been? Why don't I know about this Vegas nerve 430 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: that has such a powerful impact and that can be 431 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 1: actually moderated or stimulated or things can be done to it. 432 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 1: So help us understand the Vegas nerve, because I know 433 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,400 Speaker 1: you spend a lot of time talking about it. 434 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, with pleasure. And by the way, like I don't 435 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 2: have everything figured out, And I learned more about the 436 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 2: vegas nerve while writing this books. So it's it's O Kate, 437 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,719 Speaker 2: you just came to this information. So let let's make 438 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 2: it simple. So the vagus nerve. Everybody has one. Every 439 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 2: single human being on this plant has a vegus nerve 440 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 2: and it's the longest cranial nerve in your body. So 441 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 2: it really like flows from the brain stem down into 442 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 2: your throat, down into your chests, down into your abnominal wall, 443 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,439 Speaker 2: into your not into but around your reproductive organs, and 444 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 2: in the bottom of the pelvis. So the two main 445 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 2: rolls of the vegus nerve is to communicate from brain 446 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 2: to organs and organs to brain. Really cool thing to 447 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 2: learn here is that most of the signals the vegus 448 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,120 Speaker 2: nerve signals from the brain to the gut come from 449 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 2: the gut to the brain. This means that our gut 450 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 2: health fuels our brain health. And we've been talking about 451 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 2: this in nutrition and I talk about it in the 452 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 2: book even more so that's the first responsibility. Then the 453 00:24:55,640 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 2: second responsibility is for the vagus nerve to help us 454 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:05,919 Speaker 2: go into a parasympathetic therefore rest and digest mode as 455 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 2: human beings. So when we tone the Vegas nerve. We 456 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 2: call it vaguel tone. There is a ventral part to 457 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,920 Speaker 2: the Vegas nerve which is above the diati friend, which 458 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 2: is kind of like where your ribs are, And then 459 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 2: there's the dorsal part which is under the diaphragm, and 460 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 2: the eventual endoor school communicate together and it's a nice dance. 461 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 2: It's a titration. But here's the thing where you're constantly 462 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,479 Speaker 2: stuck in your stress and just depleted, fatigued, you know, 463 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 2: insomniac state, overwhelmed. Then the Vegas nerve is like, what 464 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 2: is going on? How do I regulate this? There are 465 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 2: simple exercises that we can do to regulate the Vegas nerve, 466 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 2: and I teach them in yoga classes, in yoga nidra classes. 467 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 2: I teach them in meditation classes because they're so simple 468 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,159 Speaker 2: and a student can do them before attesting them. You 469 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 2: can do it before you present you know something in 470 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 2: to a boss and a company. You can do it 471 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 2: because the kids are driving you crazy and you need 472 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 2: five minutes you're locked into your bathroom to be able 473 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,919 Speaker 2: to do it. They're easy and they all have to 474 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 2: do with breath. Let's reminder ourselves you're this one universal shoes. 475 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,640 Speaker 2: We come into lies inhaling, we come out of life 476 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 2: exhaling most of the time. 477 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,679 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, So the. 478 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 2: Breath is the little conductor between the body and the soul, 479 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 2: and the breath makes sense, you know. It's the only 480 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 2: autonomic function of the body. So something that happens by 481 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 2: itself that we can actually as humans intervene on. It's 482 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 2: the only function. So when we intervene on the vegas nerve, 483 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 2: we intervene on everything because the vegus nerve is responsible 484 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 2: for breathing, salization, a pupil ditation, heart beat, and digestion. 485 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 2: So when we intervene on the vegas nerve, we can 486 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 2: intervene on all these bodily functions, which is quite extraord 487 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 2: to be honest, because it's not sorcery and it's quite 488 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 2: simple to integrate in our lives. 489 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: It's the little nerve that could, right, It's like, that's 490 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 1: it amazing And I know vegas is the Latin word 491 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: for wandering. 492 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 2: Wandering, yes, because it goes and bewearing to the body, 493 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 2: like it has to feel like little little veins everywhere, 494 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 2: little networks of veins, you. 495 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 1: Know, and doesn't it also Sophie have something to do 496 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: with inflammation, because I was talking to this doctor and 497 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: he was saying, this older gentleman who wanted to play tennis, 498 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 1: but he was just really his joints were too sore something, 499 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 1: he was having muscle issues. He did some regulation of 500 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:42,719 Speaker 1: the vegus nerve and it was like suddenly the inflammation 501 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: was gone. Do you know much about that? 502 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 2: So what I do know, which is fascinating, I'm trying 503 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 2: to research it more by reading. So doctor Gabormatte wrote 504 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,159 Speaker 2: a book called When the Body Says No, and he 505 00:27:55,320 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 2: has been researching the relationship between these pycological the mind, 506 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 2: the brain right, and our immune system. So if the 507 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:09,679 Speaker 2: vagus nervous responsible for our regulation, our stress response, and 508 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 2: our relaxation, okay, what is the role of our emotional system? Okay? 509 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 2: So the role of or emotional system is to push 510 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:22,439 Speaker 2: away what is artful or harmful and to keep what 511 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 2: is healthy and nourishing. Okay. So even a baby will 512 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 2: do that. You know, they can't even feel the deep 513 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 2: hatred because they'd have to be. They have to have 514 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,880 Speaker 2: this survival and instinct of Noah, I love die. There's 515 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 2: no way that I can survive without it. So what 516 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 2: is the role of the immune system. It's the same thing. 517 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 2: It pushes away what is harmful and keeps bacterialized, for example, 518 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 2: what is nourishing. So what he's found is that so 519 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 2: many women and you're not going to be surprised by this, 520 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 2: who are the nucleus of the family, who are holding 521 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 2: the emotional lobes of their family, who are putting their 522 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 2: need first before everybody else's because they don't have enough 523 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 2: help and support in the structure in our society don't 524 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 2: support that as well, they are most likely to suffer 525 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 2: from many chronically immune diseases, chronic immune diseases. So there 526 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 2: is a link. There is a holistic approach now in 527 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 2: modern medicine where they are proving that there is a 528 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,719 Speaker 2: link between our immunity and our psychology, which is I 529 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 2: find absolutely fascinating. 530 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: That is fascinating and isn't it crazy. I remember interviewing 531 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: I think his name was Herbert Benson from Harvard when 532 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: I was on the Today Show and he wrote a 533 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: book called The Mind Body Connection, And it was when 534 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: my husband had been diagnosed with cancer, and he spent 535 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: a little time with me helping me deal with the 536 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: stress that I was under, which was obviously unbelievable. But 537 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: you know, back then, so this was in the late nineties, 538 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 1: it was pretty radical to be talking about the mind 539 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 1: body connection. Why do you think it took scientists, the 540 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: medical community, the psychological community, or psychiatric community. Why did 541 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: it take so long for people to understand how these 542 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: things were so so intertwined. 543 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 2: I'm not sure I had to as dress to watch. 544 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: And by the way, Sophie, sorry to interrupt you, but 545 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: I was thinking. I think in a lot of ancient 546 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: religions and ancient practices and rituals, this was accepted. You know, 547 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 1: if you think about yoga, if you think about all 548 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: kinds of holistic practices, and you know, rituals from all 549 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: over the world. I think this was accepted. But at 550 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: least for modern medicine, it took forever for it to 551 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: be an acceptable area to even study. 552 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 2: I absolutely agree with you, Katie. And there's like three 553 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 2: annuals to this answer. The first one is the body 554 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 2: keeps the score, and that's the title of the book 555 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 2: from Besser Brander called the great doctor who has proven 556 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 2: that you know, if you have a trauma in your 557 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 2: childhood and you don't talk about it and you try 558 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 2: to repress it. The body knows. The body knows, and 559 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 2: it can be triggered in any instance. And where you 560 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 2: feel an aggression, that is not a true aggression, but 561 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 2: your body interprets it that way because it's still traumatized 562 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 2: and you haven't healed in your body, you know. In 563 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 2: regards to that, the second one is women's bodies have 564 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:18,239 Speaker 2: only newly been explored in modern medicine because all the 565 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 2: tests of the science and the research was being done 566 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 2: on men's bodies. So that's also another answer. And you know, 567 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 2: I think it's like in Leonardo da Vinci days when 568 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 2: they were exploring anatomically the human body. The Church would 569 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 2: give the bodies to the scientifics and they would say, 570 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 2: you have teftabranch. You can look at everything we wanted 571 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 2: to understand, but there's one thing you won't touch. 572 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: What do you think that is the brain? 573 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 2: You got it the mind that belongs to the church. 574 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 2: Now we have the freedom to explore our own minds. 575 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 2: And I have sales because because to me, science is 576 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 2: a form of freedom, because it protects the truth. Because 577 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 2: we live in a world where the truth is being distorted, 578 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 2: where free press is being you know, is dangerously hijacked 579 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 2: in a way and a where our minds are hijacked 580 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 2: as well, and our bodies at the same time in 581 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 2: our nervous systems too. So I think it took a 582 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 2: lot of factors that played into why that it takes 583 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 2: so long for modern medicine to wake up to this. 584 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 2: It's about time. But I'm very hopeful because now the 585 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 2: brain is being researched like crazy, and we are getting 586 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 2: more and more knowledge, and it's just the beginning, and 587 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 2: there's people all over the world who are actually collaborating 588 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 2: with other teams across the world to share knowledge and data, 589 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 2: which is extremely important because that's a scientific legacy and 590 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 2: an emotional legacy in a way that will leave for 591 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 2: generations that will come after us. 592 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: Now, you're right, and I think part of the problem 593 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: was technology has certainly changed this, but it was you know, 594 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 1: you can't exactly get tissue samples from the brain, so 595 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: I know, with things like antidepressants, it was very anecdotal 596 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: about the impact they were having. And now with modern technology, 597 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: with brain scans, with just much more sophisticated ways of 598 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: monitoring brain activity, I think it's a really exciting time 599 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: for research in this arena that heretofore just wasn't you know, 600 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: practically possible to really be a part of. 601 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was talking to i think one of the 602 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 2: head researchers at Cornell in New York, and he was 603 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 2: explaining how scientifics have now found what they call a 604 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 2: salience network in the brain where depresses patients. When you 605 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 2: look at the imagery which they took sixty times for 606 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 2: sixty days, sixty times a day on sixty people or 607 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 2: something like that, and they really monitored every single change 608 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 2: and they realized that a portion of that area in 609 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 2: the green was kind of taken over other networks. And 610 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 2: in my book, when I interviewed George Northoff, who wrote 611 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 2: Numeral Waves, who was the head of the Autowa General 612 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 2: and Mental Health, he said, so you have no idea 613 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 2: how depression is really a misalignment in rhythm from the 614 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 2: brain to the human environment. So depressed people will have 615 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 2: much slower boy waves. They feel like life is passing 616 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 2: them by and everything is slower, and they can't get 617 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 2: out of bed and everything becomes heavy, and it's a 618 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,360 Speaker 2: lack of syncrony between the brain and the environment. And 619 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 2: for example, there's non invasive ways to stimulate areas of 620 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,400 Speaker 2: the brain for anxiety and depression that are just transcranial stimulation, 621 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 2: so through you know, electric signals. Also, classical music is 622 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 2: being used as well to calm the nervous system. 623 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,320 Speaker 1: And just interviewed Renee Fleming about her book about music 624 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: and the brain, and it was fascinating to see what 625 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,840 Speaker 1: a huge impact. I mean, you should definitely read that. 626 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 2: I'm going to read that, Renee Frond, and you would. 627 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 1: Totally geek out on that. And I also think these scientists, 628 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 1: by the way, must be so thrilled because you're giving 629 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: exposure to their work to a lay audience. You know, 630 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 1: they're not just in scientific medical journals. You're translating it 631 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: and dare I say, probably in a nice way, dumbing 632 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: it down so the average person can understand it. 633 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 2: Well, it was you and meeting before the knowledge got 634 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,399 Speaker 2: to us. So dumbing it down just really means simplifying 635 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 2: what is complex and for us to integrate it. And 636 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,800 Speaker 2: when we're educated with that base. Let's say we educated 637 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 2: our young people at a young age on this, then 638 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,839 Speaker 2: they could integrate the more complex information as they grow 639 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 2: so much more easily. So One of the biggest worries 640 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:33,880 Speaker 2: that I have now is if when you're looking at 641 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 2: the research and how we use our telephones and how 642 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 2: we're constantly on screens and constantly distracted and you know, 643 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 2: looking for the next dopamine high, the relaxing hormones become. 644 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: Boring, right, and you need more and more of your 645 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 1: threshold for stimulation gets higher and higher. 646 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 2: That's it. That's it. So it's very hard to get 647 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 2: them to meditate or to slow down, or to be 648 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 2: in contact with nature. But the problem is, and the 649 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 2: hope is the same place. Is that because we're actually 650 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 2: impairing the brain development of the child from you know, 651 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 2: around six years old. It's kind of an experience expectant 652 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 2: period where the brain of the child is expecting experience 653 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,239 Speaker 2: because the child wants to be independent, wants to take 654 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 2: low risks at low cost, falling over, you know, sprinting 655 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 2: a knee, falling down the street. It's okay, I can 656 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 2: get back cup, I'll be okay, I can continue with 657 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 2: my day. When we take that away from young people 658 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 2: and children, how do they actually test their physical and 659 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 2: psychological limits if they're not in contact with nature, if 660 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 2: they're not testing those limits at a low cost, low risk, 661 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 2: because when they come into addlwood and its higher cost, 662 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 2: higher risks, there's no resilience and the brain hasn't learned 663 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 2: how to cope with it. 664 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,840 Speaker 1: This is the conversation I had with Jonathan Height about 665 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 1: his book The Anxious Generation, which obviously is a lot 666 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 1: about this, you know, constant attention grabbing device that everyone 667 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 1: has in their hands and never looks up from. So 668 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: he had a long conversation. I'm sure you're going to 669 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:10,959 Speaker 1: read that book too. 670 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, I'm going to read. I've been looking 671 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,360 Speaker 2: at his work and he's a part of it is 672 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 2: really fascinating. The other thing you made me think of something, 673 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, is that add to that the fact that 674 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 2: in our society when we look at you know, the 675 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,719 Speaker 2: Andrew Taite movements and the you know, all those kind 676 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 2: of men who are kind of triggering the seer in 677 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,919 Speaker 2: other men and the pride and just feel a sense 678 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,760 Speaker 2: of community, but in all the wrong ways. What's happening 679 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,839 Speaker 2: is that we're allowing men to exude only to emotions 680 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 2: lust rage. So when we do that, not only are 681 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,279 Speaker 2: we insulting men's intelligence, but we're narrowing the concept of 682 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 2: what it means to be a man, and it is 683 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:54,760 Speaker 2: having repercussions in every family, in every home, in every 684 00:37:54,960 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 2: society and across this planet. So our structures, for for example, 685 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 2: parental leave is extremely important, so dads can actually have 686 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:06,840 Speaker 2: an active role in what it means to hold a 687 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,360 Speaker 2: household together and to hold the emotional load of the family, 688 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 2: the children as well. It's so much to carry by ourselves. 689 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 2: And no kidding that women are depleted, overwhelmed and not 690 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,920 Speaker 2: sleeping and somniaest the disturbances are an epidemic in themselves 691 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:21,359 Speaker 2: as well. 692 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: After the break, Sophie on how being a public figure 693 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 1: can feel like being a pinata. If you want to 694 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 1: get smarter every morning with a breakdown of the news 695 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 1: and fascinating takes on health and wellness and pop culture, 696 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,839 Speaker 1: sign up for our daily newsletter, Wake Up Call by 697 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:51,839 Speaker 1: going to Katiecouric dot com. Now more of my conversation 698 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,839 Speaker 1: with Sophie Trudeau. I can't wait for people to read 699 00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:58,879 Speaker 1: your book because I think it is going to be 700 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 1: so helpful in this stressed out world that we're living in. 701 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 1: But I don't want to end this conversation without asking 702 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,799 Speaker 1: you how you're doing you know, I feel like we're 703 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:13,799 Speaker 1: kindred spirits in some ways because we both experienced being 704 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 1: somewhat you much more so than I, Sophie, but public figures, 705 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: and I know that you have written about that in 706 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,759 Speaker 1: your book. You were very candid about what it was 707 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 1: like to be the de facto first lady, which really 708 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 1: makes you a target for people to project whatever it 709 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,279 Speaker 1: is they want onto you. You're a blank canvas and 710 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,560 Speaker 1: even though they don't know you, they believe they do. 711 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,279 Speaker 1: And I'm curious how your time in the public eye 712 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 1: has affected your emotional well being and your sense of self, 713 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,760 Speaker 1: if it was a struggle, and how you were able 714 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 1: to move on from that. 715 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,800 Speaker 2: So I've heard you call, you know, the political system 716 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 2: or the public personality sphere as the pinonta, like people 717 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,320 Speaker 2: you know, just banging without even know wh And yeah, 718 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,200 Speaker 2: that is a reality. And I have much more compassion 719 00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,799 Speaker 2: and empathy for young families who are trying to raise 720 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 2: kids in this kind of environment, because it's getting more violent, 721 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:13,719 Speaker 2: more cruel, more polarizing, and more divisive now. And I'm 722 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:15,919 Speaker 2: glad that I wasn't in my twenties as my mother 723 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:17,960 Speaker 2: in law had to live, you know, But it was 724 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 2: different than then, but still with bipolar disease, and she 725 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 2: had to go through all of that, which is I 726 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 2: can't even imagine what that is like. I see it 727 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:33,480 Speaker 2: as a gift in disguise because it allowed me to 728 00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:37,680 Speaker 2: dig so deep into who I am and who who 729 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 2: I was and who I'm becoming as well, which is 730 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,320 Speaker 2: a work in progress. It's messy sometimes, but that's okay. 731 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,880 Speaker 2: I also never lived thinking, oh, I'm the first lady, 732 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,720 Speaker 2: and oh this man that I love is the prime Minister. 733 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:51,319 Speaker 1: No. 734 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 2: I've met enough king queens, people with incredible titles and accomplishments, 735 00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:58,680 Speaker 2: and people who have none. And I know for a 736 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:00,920 Speaker 2: fact that we're all the You can say that we 737 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,440 Speaker 2: have the same you know, sense and longing to be 738 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 2: loved and validated for who we are and to express 739 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:11,279 Speaker 2: our true selves. And remember that safety is key. You 740 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,400 Speaker 2: might be surrounded by everything you need in your life 741 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 2: and crowns and whatever you want to call them, but 742 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,440 Speaker 2: if do you all feel safe, it's getting over. Your 743 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,080 Speaker 2: nervous system is in a sympathetic mode and it is 744 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:25,799 Speaker 2: what it is. So I think it provokes me and 745 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:27,600 Speaker 2: on my OPI mat What I can say is that 746 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 2: there were lots and lots of tears, of confusion, of fog, 747 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:38,799 Speaker 2: of you know, drops of sweats of sweat, and trying 748 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,440 Speaker 2: to navigate my own in the world, thinking who am 749 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:46,920 Speaker 2: I in all of this? And now I see it 750 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 2: with the gratitude, and I'm not perfect. I'm still trying 751 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,560 Speaker 2: to figure it out, but I'm still dedicated to my 752 00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,720 Speaker 2: practice and to finding my center so I can actually 753 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,799 Speaker 2: love myself, be more tender towards myself, be more compassionate, 754 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,759 Speaker 2: so I can offer it to human beings around me. 755 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,960 Speaker 2: That is my sense of mission in life. That is 756 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,000 Speaker 2: my sense of service. I'm not sure what else is 757 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:17,479 Speaker 2: there for me that's clear, and that's a gift. And 758 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 2: to know yourself. And I think you know that an 759 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:24,720 Speaker 2: unexamined mind is an unexamined life. And wish it shouldn't 760 00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:26,600 Speaker 2: be a luxury to have the time to do so, 761 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,640 Speaker 2: which is in our days right now. But let's make 762 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:31,240 Speaker 2: it more accessible for everybody. 763 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,960 Speaker 1: I know that, And I'm sure everyone's asked you this, Sophie, 764 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,160 Speaker 1: so I'm sort of doing it out of the sense 765 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,439 Speaker 1: of obligation for people who say, what didn't you ask 766 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,120 Speaker 1: her about this? But I know it was announced that 767 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,960 Speaker 1: you and your husband, Justin Trudeau, who i've had the 768 00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:49,280 Speaker 1: pleasure of meetings, separated last year. You handed this book 769 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:54,000 Speaker 1: in prior to that separation, and I'm curious how you're 770 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,120 Speaker 1: doing with that because it's not a trauma necessarily, I 771 00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:02,120 Speaker 1: guess it can be, but it's a massive life change, 772 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:09,080 Speaker 1: and that I think that's a watershed moment in someone's life. 773 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,960 Speaker 1: I mean, there's several obviously throughout your life. But how 774 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,279 Speaker 1: has that impacted the way you're re examining who you 775 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,120 Speaker 1: are and serving other people in the process. 776 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,359 Speaker 2: So a couple of things here. I do believe that 777 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,920 Speaker 2: in some cases separations or divorces can be traumatic for 778 00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,000 Speaker 2: the adults and for the children. 779 00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,160 Speaker 1: Oh yes, obviously. And I just think in your case, 780 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,719 Speaker 1: from you and I having a conversation, it doesn't sound 781 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,280 Speaker 1: is if it sounds like it doesn't fall in that category. 782 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,080 Speaker 1: But yes, for the record, of course, of course, and. 783 00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:43,440 Speaker 2: It does hurt. It hurts a lot, and it hurts 784 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,880 Speaker 2: deeply because in a way, we have these two words 785 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:52,120 Speaker 2: in our language. You know, marriage is success. Separation of 786 00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:57,680 Speaker 2: divorces failure. But life happens in between, and we dramatize 787 00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:02,480 Speaker 2: our relationships because we are insecure. We are afraid to 788 00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,760 Speaker 2: be abandoned. We are afraid to be alone. As human beings, 789 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,880 Speaker 2: it is not in our nature to be alone and 790 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,319 Speaker 2: just living alone. Some have done it, but it's not 791 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:18,640 Speaker 2: in our global human nature. I have a very open conversation, 792 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:23,239 Speaker 2: open communication relationship with my kids and with Justin. We 793 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:28,520 Speaker 2: are still abandoned by love and respect and smiles and tears, 794 00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,759 Speaker 2: and we're still trying to figure it out and it's 795 00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,520 Speaker 2: not perfect. But when you keep things honest, Michael J. 796 00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:39,600 Speaker 2: Fox said, we're only as sick as our secrets. Be 797 00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:44,080 Speaker 2: careful with the secrets that you hold, because when you 798 00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:50,399 Speaker 2: sit with lies or betrayals, or you know, whatever your 799 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,080 Speaker 2: story is, and you sit with that and you keep 800 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:56,560 Speaker 2: it aside, it builds up and it can become kind 801 00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,120 Speaker 2: of like your monster to deal with every day. So 802 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,680 Speaker 2: when he said that, I was like, hmm, that's interesting. 803 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,359 Speaker 2: It kind of resonated with me. So I think that 804 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:09,240 Speaker 2: we should be careful in how we talk about relationships. 805 00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:13,840 Speaker 2: And yes, you know, when the unconscious conscious uncoupling expression 806 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,240 Speaker 2: came up, I think a lot of people kind of sighed, 807 00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:20,360 Speaker 2: and you know, we could find other ways of calling 808 00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,840 Speaker 2: our relationships that doesn't have to be separation or divorced, 809 00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,759 Speaker 2: but from a legal perspective and from protecting so many 810 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:32,080 Speaker 2: vulnerable mothers and women, you know, the law is so important. 811 00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,640 Speaker 2: But what I'm trying to say is that if we 812 00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:38,759 Speaker 2: become better regulated, if we become less threatened by the 813 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,200 Speaker 2: difference of the other, which is what we're threatened with 814 00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,319 Speaker 2: in conflict in our personal relationships. Ninety nine percent of 815 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,680 Speaker 2: the time, we think people interpret life the way we do, 816 00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,440 Speaker 2: but that's not how it works out. And when we 817 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:54,880 Speaker 2: feel less threatened, we dedramatize our relationship to ourselves and 818 00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:59,440 Speaker 2: to others. So securing our nervous system, understanding the wirings 819 00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:04,279 Speaker 2: under our personality is not only tools to pacify, can 820 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,480 Speaker 2: you say that, to make our relationships more peaceful to 821 00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:11,200 Speaker 2: ourselves and with others, but it's also kind of a 822 00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:15,880 Speaker 2: global palmer for our democracies and society because when you 823 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:19,120 Speaker 2: look at the ploralizing and divided forces out there, I 824 00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:22,120 Speaker 2: can assure you that most people who are in hatred 825 00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:26,840 Speaker 2: and fear mode are in their sympathetic nervous system. So again, 826 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:28,960 Speaker 2: the neural, biological, and enterative behind all of. 827 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:33,000 Speaker 1: That, well, you're a very wise woman, Sophie Trudeau, and 828 00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,240 Speaker 1: I'm so glad that you've written this book Closer Together. 829 00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,520 Speaker 1: I think it will help a lot of people and 830 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:44,640 Speaker 1: will change behavior, hopefully some hearts and minds, because we 831 00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,080 Speaker 1: do seem to have a lot of hate, anchor and 832 00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:51,640 Speaker 1: rage and unhappiness in our society. And I think, maybe 833 00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:56,640 Speaker 1: you know, social media has provided a platform for people 834 00:46:56,719 --> 00:47:00,640 Speaker 1: to express it. But I think things are good as 835 00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:04,040 Speaker 1: they are now, and hopefully they'll get better as we 836 00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:06,719 Speaker 1: realize this is not necessarily a way to live. 837 00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:11,479 Speaker 2: So I'd like to just note and maybe conclude that, 838 00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,680 Speaker 2: you know, when animals, when animals are sick, Okay, when 839 00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:17,640 Speaker 2: mammals get sick, they stop playing. When we are sick, 840 00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:24,120 Speaker 2: we stop playing, humor, playfulness, creativity, movement. It is necessary 841 00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:27,040 Speaker 2: to our health. And when we stop playing, and I'm 842 00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:30,400 Speaker 2: not talking about just like monopoly or straggle like unstructured plate, 843 00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:34,800 Speaker 2: being good, mischievous together, not hurting each other, but you know, 844 00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,239 Speaker 2: pulling pranks, which I'd love to do, and I talk 845 00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:39,759 Speaker 2: about that in the book as well, you know, laugh 846 00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:44,200 Speaker 2: together kind of when we laugh, when we play, when 847 00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,520 Speaker 2: we let go, the brain is in restoration mode and 848 00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,400 Speaker 2: just very quickly. This gives me chills. But when doctor 849 00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:52,799 Speaker 2: Gordon Nufeld, who's in my book, who's a specialist on 850 00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,880 Speaker 2: teenage health and chill did it was called by teachers 851 00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:59,279 Speaker 2: in Ukraine while the war is raging. They asked him 852 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,560 Speaker 2: what do I do with the children? What do we do? 853 00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,439 Speaker 2: There are in alert mode, there are stressed out, they're 854 00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,560 Speaker 2: infer mode. They're little children. And he said, you take 855 00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:11,360 Speaker 2: the curriculum, you put it aside, and you let the 856 00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:15,320 Speaker 2: children play. Let them play, because when those bombs are falling, 857 00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,600 Speaker 2: their brain is still feeling that they're safe enough to 858 00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:22,040 Speaker 2: live and to thrive. So if we can integrate that 859 00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:25,360 Speaker 2: while there are injustices going around and taking place on 860 00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,040 Speaker 2: this planet Earth, into the microhabits that we can have 861 00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:32,200 Speaker 2: in our relative peaceful lives, we can change. We can 862 00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,600 Speaker 2: change our lives, and we can change our environment. And 863 00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,319 Speaker 2: let's never let the darker forces take over. No way, 864 00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:41,359 Speaker 2: I'm never gonna let that happen in my existence. That's free. 865 00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:44,920 Speaker 1: I'm not either, No, I know that, And I love 866 00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:48,439 Speaker 1: you for it. Sophie, Thank you so much. It's great 867 00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:50,560 Speaker 1: to see you. Best of luck with the book and 868 00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:53,160 Speaker 1: the book tour and I can't wait to see you 869 00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:56,480 Speaker 1: in person soon. I hope Matthew what I mean of what? 870 00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:07,000 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me, 871 00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:09,879 Speaker 1: a subject you want us to cover, or you want 872 00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,920 Speaker 1: to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy 873 00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:16,359 Speaker 1: world reach out. You can leave a short message at 874 00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:20,279 Speaker 1: six h nine five point two five five five, or 875 00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:22,880 Speaker 1: you can send me a DM on Instagram. I would 876 00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,960 Speaker 1: love to hear from you. Next Question is a production 877 00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:30,560 Speaker 1: of iHeartMedia and Katie Couric Media. The executive producers are Me, 878 00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:35,640 Speaker 1: Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz, 879 00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:41,040 Speaker 1: and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian 880 00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:46,239 Speaker 1: Weller composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode, 881 00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:48,799 Speaker 1: or to sign up for my newsletter, wake Up Call, 882 00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:52,160 Speaker 1: go to the description in the podcast app, or visit 883 00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:55,440 Speaker 1: us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me 884 00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:59,239 Speaker 1: on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more 885 00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:04,600 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 886 00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:12,120 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 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