1 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Marcowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:11,319 Speaker 1: One of the things I think about a lot is 3 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: how to raise rich kids. Now, I know poor people 4 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: don't like to be called poor, and rich people don't 5 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: like to be called rich. And not trying to make 6 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: anybody uncomfortable. When I say rich, I don't mean private 7 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:25,799 Speaker 1: jets and yacht rich. I just mean kids who have 8 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: their needs met all of the time. I use rich 9 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: as a synonym for being free from everyday money worries. 10 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 1: I grew up quite poor. We lived in a bad 11 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: neighborhood in Brooklyn. I was very aware of crime happening 12 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: around me. I didn't have many toys. I never had 13 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: the IT toy, just really limited like McDonald's was a 14 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: special occasion kind of thing. And I wrote a few 15 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: years ago that every October throughout my childhood, my mom 16 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: would dig out the flannel sheets to stretch on all 17 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: of our beds to help bend off the c of 18 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: the coming New York winter. She would take down these 19 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:06,759 Speaker 1: heavy blankets that my grandmother had brought with her from 20 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: the Soviet Union to replace the thin ones we'd use 21 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: all summer, and we'd wear long sleeve long pants pajamas. 22 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 2: Now. 23 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,559 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, my own kids don't have flannel sheets, and in fact, 24 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,279 Speaker 1: their betting, complete with the heavy comforter, is the same 25 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:27,559 Speaker 1: whether it's July or January, not just in Florida either. 26 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 1: The homes that they've lived in are always seventy three degrees. 27 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: And now we're heading into their December break and we 28 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: only have a short trip planned. Because I had a 29 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: busy year of travel and all I want to do 30 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: is be at home and be very still and not 31 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: do very much at all. My middle son asked, like, 32 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: is everything okay? Again, It's not like we winter in 33 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: Saint Bart's or something like that. Last year we did 34 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: a week in the Smoky Mountains in Tennessee. 35 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 3: But hearing that we're only doing a short road. 36 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: Trip this year, he was basedic, like, is everything all 37 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: right at work now? I don't want my kids to 38 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: have expectations of big trips every break, but as someone 39 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: who grew up poor, I also do enjoy getting to 40 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 1: give them everything, So it's a tough line to walk. 41 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: The main thing I want my kids to be prepared 42 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: for is that having money isn't necessarily a permanent state. 43 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: Sure studies show that those born rich will die rich, 44 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: but they mostly study that zero point oh one percent, 45 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 1: not people who have been comfortable but not super loaded. 46 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: My own life has been a roller coaster of various 47 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: financial situations. I've been poor, than rich, than poor, then 48 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: rich again. It's all over the place. I ask people 49 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: on this show whether they think they've made it. And 50 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: I had this moment many years ago, now, maybe twelve 51 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 1: years ago, thirteen years ago, where I left my house 52 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: for the day. We were living on the Upper West 53 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: Side of Manhattan at the time, and we had walked 54 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: maybe five blocks when I realized that my shoe was giving. 55 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 2: Me a blister. 56 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: For much of my life, I would have walked the 57 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: five blocks back home to get a band aid or 58 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: change my shoes or whatever. But on this day, I 59 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: walked into a CVS and I bought band aids and 60 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: they were like, what three dollars? That moment, I felt 61 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,679 Speaker 1: like I had made it, and I felt so good 62 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: about my life, like I could just walk in here 63 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,959 Speaker 1: and buy myself what I need and continue about my 64 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: day and not think for a second about these three 65 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: dollars that I spent. And that's why that question is 66 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: always so interesting. To me, it really depends on where 67 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: you came from and your expectations. And of course there 68 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: have been many times since that day with the band 69 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: aids that I felt that I haven't actually made it, 70 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: so that changes too. But back to the rich kids. 71 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: If you're able to mindlessly buy your kids like a 72 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: five dollars drink at Starbucks or splurge for an eight 73 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: dollar Uber ride when everyone is tired of walking, your 74 00:03:57,600 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: kids are rich. 75 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 3: But few people want to admit that. 76 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: And when I worry about giving my own kids too much, 77 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: I try to discuss it with parents and similar circumstances, 78 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: but it's a hard conversation to have because it turns 79 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: out that just like no one likes admit they're poor, 80 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 1: hardly anyone likes submitting they're rich. Either For us my 81 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: also immigrant husband nor I had family connections or networks. 82 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: We didn't have any of that growing up, so we 83 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: don't have any of the guilt we're supposed to have 84 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,119 Speaker 1: at our privilege. And when you don't need to worry 85 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: about all the essentials and then some, that's rich. But 86 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: if you want to say so, if teaching kids to 87 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: appreciate what they have is important, pretending not to have 88 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: it is ineffective. I worry about my kids becoming entitled, 89 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: but the bigger concern for me is that they become 90 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: too comfortable, too sure that their good times can never end. 91 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: The challenge really is to teach them to enjoy what 92 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: they have, but not expect it. And the goal is 93 00:04:56,040 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: to teach perspective while providing comforts. And if that doesn't, 94 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,679 Speaker 1: delete that uber app and turn down the heat. Coming 95 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,799 Speaker 1: up next and interview with David Kaufman. Join us after 96 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:13,039 Speaker 1: the break. Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz 97 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: Show on iHeartRadio. My guest today is David Kaufman. David 98 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 1: is an editor and columnist at my favorite newspaper, The 99 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 1: New York Post, and an adjunct. 100 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 3: Fellow at the Tel Aviv Institute. Thanks so much for being. 101 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 2: On, David, Thank you, thank you for having me. 102 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: Yes, so, I know you as my sometimes editor at 103 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 1: the New York Post when I would write a column 104 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: on Sundays. Tell us a little bit about yourself. How 105 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: did you get into writing and editing? 106 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 2: I'm when I was sort of young in my college 107 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 2: in my college years and think about what I wanted 108 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 2: to do with myself after I finish university. I was 109 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 2: good at two things. I was very good at writing, 110 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 2: and I was very good at expressing ideas on page, 111 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 2: putting ideas dependent paper. And I was very good with 112 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 2: time management. I knew how to get things up accomplished. 113 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 2: I knew how to take ideas and sort of turn 114 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 2: them into the written word, but also how to do 115 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 2: these types of things. Uh. I didn't think about it 116 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 2: at the time as on deadline, but within you know, 117 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 2: step period of time. So I knew I had this 118 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 2: skill that allowed me to take uh, complex ideas or 119 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 2: even simple ideas and translate them into pros, but also 120 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 2: do so in a set amount of time. And it 121 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 2: occurred to me that this was sort of, uh, the 122 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 2: ingredients for a career in journalism. And I, of course 123 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 2: was always sort of a magazine magazine mediac. I had 124 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 2: my friends from I had magazine media. You know. When 125 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 2: I was a kid in my in my you know, 126 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 2: tween years going up in San Francisco, I used to like, 127 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 2: you know, hide in the supermarket reading magazines. And I 128 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 2: was never I was a bit of a media slot 129 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 2: even back to then. I loved I love to read 130 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 2: time and I love to read Newsweek. But I also 131 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 2: loved to read the National Inquiry and I and Star 132 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 2: and I love to read like Car and Driver, even 133 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 2: though I've never learned how to drive. So I just 134 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 2: love I love the magazines. I love media even back then, 135 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 2: and I knew that this was something that was very 136 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 2: appealing to me and interesting. I love the sort of 137 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 2: the visual presentation in magazines. I love magazine covers, I 138 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 2: love fashion magazines, I love you know, cultural magazines. I 139 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 2: used to subscribe to a sort of I think it 140 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 2: was called Global News Report World News Report when I 141 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 2: was in high school and I could I had access 142 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 2: to all of these international magazines from Argentina and from 143 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 2: France and from Japan and Korea, way back before the internet. 144 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 2: So this was something I was just always had a 145 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 2: passion for. And then when I did my junior year 146 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 2: abroad in London, you know, they have such a vibrant 147 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 2: magazine newspaper culture in the way that we don't have 148 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 2: in the US, and a very clear politicized newspaper culture, 149 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 2: which I kind of was into. You knew what you're 150 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 2: going to get, right, I love I love nothing more 151 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 2: than us getting paper, getting you know, five papers on 152 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 2: Sundays in the in the UK and reading you know, 153 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 2: the Times and the Observer and then the Guardian early mail, 154 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 2: walking around seeing the clack cards all over London in 155 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 2: the evening, you know, telling you to pick paper with 156 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 2: all the headlines about Diana or whoever. I'm dating myself, 157 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 2: but so it was just something. And then when I 158 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 2: finished college, I moved to New York and went to 159 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 2: grad schoot NYU, and here I am. 160 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: Well so I also I lived in Scotland. I loved 161 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: the British newspapers. I also went to NYU grad school. 162 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: So we have some things in common. But I have 163 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: never heard a writer say that they were good at 164 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: time management. I don't even know what that's all about, 165 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: because I thought the whole thing about being a writer 166 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: is that we procrastinate and procrastinate until the last possible second. 167 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: I thought that was like part of what we agreed 168 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 1: to as a you know, as a culture. 169 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 2: It is it is. But even in that that kind 170 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 2: of structure of the last possible moment, I was still 171 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 2: always good at getting it done in the last possible night, 172 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 2: even if I waved to. 173 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 3: The last yeah, yes, we get it done right. 174 00:08:55,840 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 1: So since October seventh you've written and the massacre Israel. 175 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: You've written a lot about being black and gay and 176 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:09,319 Speaker 1: Jewish and how that sort of informed your opinions, and 177 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: that you're kind of disappointed right now in the black 178 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: community or the gay community from not standing with. 179 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,319 Speaker 3: The Jewish community. What's been the hardest part of that 180 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 3: for you? 181 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 2: It's been very disappointing. You know, we live in a 182 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 2: culture that's been sort of overwhelmed by social justice group movements, 183 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,439 Speaker 2: by identity politics, intersectionality. I'm sort of the poster child 184 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 2: for identity politics in a way, being you know, LGBT, 185 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,559 Speaker 2: being African American, also being Jewish. So I exist as 186 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 2: sort of this intersectional social justice identity, a unicorn with 187 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 2: fingers and affinities in all of these groups. And I've 188 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 2: seen how strongly Jews have come out to support all 189 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 2: these causes, queer causes, LGBT causes, of course, black lives matters, causes, 190 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 2: feminist causes, Asian hate. We as Jews, have been there. 191 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 2: We've stood up. No, we haven't just stood up, We've 192 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,359 Speaker 2: We've held up in many ways these these these movements 193 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 2: with our time, our money, our blind support, which was great. 194 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 2: They were all worthy of this support. But now you know, 195 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 2: we have this situation where, you know, I think for Jews, 196 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 2: particularly Jews like me who is Zionistic and have a 197 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 2: very personal connection to Israel, which I do. I lived 198 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 2: there for many years in Tel Aviv, and so is 199 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 2: Israel's a very important person to me, important place to me. 200 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 2: You know, we have had this nightmare scenario that really 201 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 2: was beyond our worst nightmare. I mean, I think that 202 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 2: you know, for those of who spent time in Israel, 203 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,199 Speaker 2: if you're worried about a terror attack or even a war, 204 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 2: I've I've been through two wars in Israel. I've lived 205 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 2: Thiseld for two wards. I've lived in those through multiple 206 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 2: terror attacks, So I know what terror in Israel looks 207 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 2: like very clearly. I still have my gas masks from 208 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 2: the First Gulf War. But what happened on October seventh 209 00:10:54,200 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 2: was so astoundingly beyond any of our w widest imaginations. 210 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 2: I mean, we would never and that also speaks to 211 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 2: the failure of as Israel and the intelligence community, and 212 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 2: that's something they're going to have to account for. But 213 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 2: going back to what happened, you know, every level of 214 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 2: what happened in October seventh. It was so horrific and 215 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 2: so be on our wildest imaginations. And you know, the 216 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 2: mass rape and the killing of children and the kidnapping. 217 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 2: You know, it touches upon every single sort of social 218 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 2: justice cause of the world right now, feminism, queer issues, 219 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 2: ethno identity issues. And yet these folks have not only 220 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 2: stood up for Jews, but many of them have, you know, 221 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 2: publicly doubted that these things even happen. Right have feminist 222 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 2: groups saying well, they weren't raped, or you have queer groups. 223 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 2: I mean, I saw I saw a post on Instagram 224 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 2: yesterday that was sort of astounding. It was a queer 225 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 2: trans group for Palestine and they were having some sort 226 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 2: of like teaching today where they were and they put specifically, 227 00:11:55,760 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 2: you know, stridently aggressively on the post on Instagram, the 228 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 2: time for this teaching, this sort of zoom teaching in 229 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 2: New York and the time for the zoom teaching in Gaza. 230 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 2: They could help, they could help you know, queer communities 231 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 2: and Gaza like learn people community and gaus. And I'm 232 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:16,559 Speaker 2: just like, you know, who are these idiot people? No, 233 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 2: queer people in Gaza are hanging out listening to this 234 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 2: podcasts how to be you know, be more visible and 235 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 2: effective queer advocates in Godship. There are no vocal out 236 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 2: queer advocates in Gaza. They don't would be killed by 237 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 2: Hamas violently and horrifically, and their families would be shown 238 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,319 Speaker 2: and probably killed as well. So there's such a lack 239 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 2: of logic and purple thinking and denial of reality. I mean, 240 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 2: what's so scary about this what's so scary about this 241 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 2: movement is we're living in a movement in a moment 242 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 2: where you know, the lowest common denominators, the lowest level 243 00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 2: of thinking, you know, complete and total lack of reality 244 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 2: is leading the conversation. You know, we're being this conversation 245 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 2: is being led by people who don't know what they're 246 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 2: talking about, who are spreading lives, who are astoundingly underqualified 247 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 2: and informed, and they have these platforms and millions and 248 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 2: billions of people. It's very dangerous and very scary, and 249 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 2: it's scary on the kind of a societal and and 250 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 2: sort of cultural level, but also it makes me scared 251 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 2: on a personal level. If there's all these people out there, 252 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 2: you know, learning to hate Jews, but insane people on TikTok, 253 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 2: I'm a Jew that they could hate me, you know, 254 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 2: so it's very scary. 255 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,439 Speaker 3: So how do you challenge that? What do we do? 256 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: And I know you have children, so like what's your 257 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: hope for that generation? How do they How do we 258 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 1: raise kids in this insane environment? 259 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 2: Yeah? I think one of the key things that's that's 260 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 2: missing right now in this whole conversation is consequence. I mean, 261 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 2: these folks are kind of operating relentlessly and recklessly across 262 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 2: our society and there's very little consequence. I mean, we saw, 263 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 2: we've seen so many examples. We saw that Jewish teacher 264 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 2: who was sort of like locked in her room a 265 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 2: couple of days ago. And in Queens we saw the kids, 266 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,439 Speaker 2: the students at at Cooper Union a couple of months ago, 267 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 2: a month and a half ago, who couldn't leave the library. Well, 268 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 2: we saw some pro Palestinian protester in a cafia like yesterday, 269 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 2: you know, trying to challenge a cop during the tree lightings. Well, 270 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 2: what's happening to these people? Are they being arrested, are 271 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 2: they being charged? Are these students being expelled? I mean, 272 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 2: as somebody who's also black, it's a very I'm so 273 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 2: conflicted by seeing a bunch of black kids, you know, 274 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 2: like terrorized a Jewish Jewish teacher and in a classroom. 275 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 2: You know, do I want these young black kids to 276 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 2: be expelled from school? Because so many black kids once 277 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 2: they are expelled from school, that starts this like lifelong 278 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 2: process of under achievement, you know. So do I want 279 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 2: that for them? I don't know. I don't know. I 280 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 2: don't want that for them. Do I want to get 281 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 2: away with locking a teacher in the room, yes, and 282 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 2: making her unable to do the drob and fear for 283 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 2: her safety. Well, that's not acceptable either. There has to 284 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 2: be a happy medium. We can't just say well, because 285 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 2: they're black kids, and you know, black kids are disproportionately 286 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 2: impacted by school discipline systems, which is true. Nobody's denying that. Okay, 287 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 2: we did that, But does that mean they shouldn't be disciplined. 288 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 2: Do I say to my say I have twins, Do 289 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 2: I say, well, because one kid is disciplined more than 290 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 2: the other, it's not fair to you know, he needs 291 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 2: to get a reprieve sometimes if he's acting badly. Well, no, 292 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 2: it just means that we need to find a better 293 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 2: way to discipline him. So that's very scary to me, 294 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 2: this sense that like there's there's no sense of consequence 295 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 2: and there is very little, you know, rigorous thinking of 296 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 2: you know, how do we how do we discipline and 297 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 2: offer consequence. Maybe we don't expel fifty black kids from 298 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 2: a school of Queen's en Mass, but do suspend them 299 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 2: for a period of time and we give them a 300 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 2: very serious warning and we bring in their parents, and 301 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 2: maybe we do it slightly publicly. I don't know. But 302 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 2: this is a moment where we have to think harder. 303 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 2: We have to make harder decisions, harder choices, We have 304 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 2: to work harder, not just dispense with our responsibility as citizens. 305 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, I think that I think suspension was sort 306 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: of where I end up on it. 307 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 3: I mean, they're dumb. 308 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: Kids, and you know, the race to me is sort 309 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: of irrelevant. If it was, you know, a bunch of 310 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: Jewish kids locking a black teacher in a room, I 311 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: would feel the same way. I think they need consequence. 312 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: I also just think that we're seeing a breakdown of 313 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: everything everywhere. 314 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 3: Not just in schools, not just for Jews. 315 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: You know, I think that we've gotten to where we 316 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: see a consequence free society. I think, like the shoplifting 317 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: mobs or any of this stuff, we're not seeing people 318 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: have the consequences of their actions, and I think that 319 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: makes other people think, well, why do I have to 320 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 1: abide by the rules. So to me, it's if they 321 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 1: don't follow up and if they don't deal with a 322 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: lot of the different issues that we're facing, I think 323 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: we're just gonna that really just encourages other people to 324 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 1: get worse worse behavior, and that's what we're gonna end 325 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 1: up seeing. So one of the questions that I ask 326 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: all of my guests is what do you think is 327 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,880 Speaker 1: our largest cultural or societal problem in the in America? 328 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:28,400 Speaker 3: And do you think it's solvable? 329 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 2: I mean, I think it goes to what you were 330 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 2: just talking about, this lack of consequence, this this lack 331 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 2: of accountability. I mean, we now live in a world 332 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 2: where maybe it's because I mean I hate this idea 333 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 2: of like, you know, traditional family values, but you know 334 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 2: most of folks. 335 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 3: From traditional family values. 336 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it takes a different way. Like you know, 337 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 2: I would say that my mom was a single mom, 338 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,199 Speaker 2: but she was someone's very traditional. My my kids are 339 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,679 Speaker 2: being raised by two dads, and there were you know, 340 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 2: especially the other one. He couldn't be more traditional, I mean, 341 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 2: like fashion. So yeah, it's not necessarily about you know, mom, 342 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,159 Speaker 2: dad married in a house with a white pick of 343 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 2: fans watching, you know, leave it de Beaver. It's about 344 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 2: the sense of integrity in the family structure and accountability 345 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 2: and compassion and and and and that's all broken down, 346 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, and particularly it's made worse by 347 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 2: the fact that, you know, our children spend so much 348 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 2: time on on machines and tablets, and you know, and 349 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 2: and and also in a way we as parents have 350 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 2: been lulled a bit, you know, because we our kids 351 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 2: are now so fluent with with with tablets. Sometimes we 352 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 2: don't really know what they're watching on tea. For some 353 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 2: of the messages, messages they're getting to. They have these like, 354 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 2: you know, crazy words coming out of their mouths, and 355 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 2: we wonder why saying these words, because we were not 356 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 2: paying attention while they were watching too. But I think 357 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 2: it goes back to what you were saying. We're living 358 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 2: in this culture of a consequence less culture in every 359 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 2: sense of the word, whether it's the shoplifting, the homelessness, 360 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 2: you know, the drug use that sort of encourage right 361 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 2: now as part of the harm reduction programs or housing 362 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 2: first programs that really say that, really say to folks, 363 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 2: to many folks, you're entitled to these kinds of social dispensation, 364 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 2: any accountability, without any sense of legitimacy or accomplishment. And again, 365 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 2: also I think we're talking about is and this really 366 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 2: speaks to I think the social justice movements in woke 367 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 2: culture is that it's it's a you are endowing people 368 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 2: or you are presenting people with a sense of legitimacy 369 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 2: and accomplishment and achievement where none really exists. You know, 370 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 2: you're saying this person is a leader because you know 371 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 2: their lived experience, because they've have a unique because of 372 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 2: a lived experience as opposed to which is important, don't 373 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 2: get me wrong, Like a refugee who's gone through war 374 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 2: and Darfur has a very unique lived experience that we 375 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 2: should be hearing about as part of conversation about you know, 376 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 2: the refugee experience, but we should also be hearing about 377 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,360 Speaker 2: people who work in the UN and you know, work 378 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 2: for global refugee refugee organizations and maybe somebody who has 379 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 2: a PhD in refugees, like, it's not We've gone to 380 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 2: a point where it used to be a balance of 381 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 2: people presenting the reality, presenting UH history presenting UH current politics, 382 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 2: but now it's just the lived experiences. So people are 383 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 2: sort of self appointed experts in topics they know nothing about, 384 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 2: and we're kind of forced to listen to them because, 385 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 2: you know, because of corporate white guilt or because of 386 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 2: you know, if you don't, you don't affirm these people, 387 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 2: you'll be canceled. So again it goes back to this 388 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 2: idea of there's all of this sort of uh this this, this, this, 389 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 2: this dispersion of legitimacy, of accomplishment, of expertise by people 390 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 2: who actually have none of it. And when you call 391 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 2: them on this, when you call them and say, why 392 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 2: should I be listening to you? You know, why should 393 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:05,879 Speaker 2: I be listening to a black social justice warrior about Palestine? 394 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 2: Number one? What does she have to say about Palatine? 395 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 2: And more apportantly, besides being black, what does she have 396 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 2: to say about black social justice? You know what I mean? Like, 397 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 2: why are these people in charge? Who who put these 398 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,679 Speaker 2: people in charge? Why are we listening to them? And 399 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 2: why are we so afraid to ask why we're listening 400 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 2: to them. I think that's the problem. 401 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and be right 402 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. How do we move 403 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: away from listening to people who don't know anything about anything, 404 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 1: and you know, moving towards not treating identity as you know, 405 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 1: an explanation for anything. 406 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:43,959 Speaker 3: I can tell you. 407 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: I was a refugee to this country when I was 408 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: a small child. Nobody's looking at looking at me for 409 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 1: a refugee advice or thoughts. So how do we move 410 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 1: away from, you know, treating people's lived experience as the 411 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 1: whole story. 412 00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you know, I talk about it. 413 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 2: I do. 414 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 3: I talk about my family's immigration experience. 415 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: And how that differs wildly from the immigration that we 416 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: have now, and things like that. But it's interesting that 417 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:13,120 Speaker 1: you say, you know, we listen to all these people 418 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:16,679 Speaker 1: who really don't have any depth to their knowledge, and 419 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:18,360 Speaker 1: I just want to know what you think we can 420 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: do to break that. 421 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 2: Yeah. So, I think the most important thing especially I 422 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 2: mean everybody, but I think especially for Jews right now, 423 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 2: who exist in a state of kind of like, you know, 424 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 2: total abject collective moral failure by the rest of by 425 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 2: progressive society. I think what we do is we just 426 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 2: stop listening to them. We just say we're not going 427 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 2: to do it anymore, you know. Like I was, I 428 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:40,919 Speaker 2: was on a podcast a couple of weeks ago, and 429 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 2: someone said to me, what happens when you know they 430 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,199 Speaker 2: those groups want us back at the table, you know, 431 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 2: right right, all passes. I was like, we don't go, 432 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 2: you know, we we we at home, We make it, 433 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 2: we get ridden. Yeah, we say we're not going to 434 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,719 Speaker 2: that table anymore. We actually make our own tables, you know, 435 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 2: and we say, if you want to, if you want 436 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:04,719 Speaker 2: if you want us, if you want to be part 437 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 2: of you know, our collective, you know, our collective intellect 438 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 2: and social justice, passion and money, you come, you come 439 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 2: to us and will see what's happening. But I also 440 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,360 Speaker 2: think again this is a little bit, you know, specific 441 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 2: to Jewish groups, but you know, I think that you know, 442 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 2: Jewish groups have been such a foundation and pillar of 443 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,679 Speaker 2: progressive society since you know, forever, since Jews came here 444 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 2: as part of Jewish culture. To be progressive, to be philanthropic, 445 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 2: to want to help, to want to tokun olam, to 446 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 2: fix the world. This is what we do. This is 447 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 2: what makes us choose. So we have this inherent tendency 448 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 2: to be do gooders and which is a very good thing. 449 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 2: And also we've been sort of bamboozled into thinking that 450 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 2: because Jews are supposedly white, which I'm not white and 451 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 2: I'm Jewish, left not true, that our that on the 452 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 2: sort of hierarchy of oppression. We're at the lowest level. 453 00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 2: So we should be looking out for ourselves. Well that's 454 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 2: stops now, you know. When we how do we fix 455 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 2: this the current situation? I think we turn inward, you know, 456 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 2: we start, we start, we start really really really you know, 457 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 2: dominating and firmly establishing our own tables, you know, and 458 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 2: we we are we maybe become a bit selfish, and 459 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,360 Speaker 2: we say we're going to focus on Jewish issues right 460 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 2: now because it's not safe to be a Jew right 461 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,120 Speaker 2: now in this world, and we need to protect ourselves. 462 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,679 Speaker 2: And I think another thing to say is that, you know, 463 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 2: I I've never really been kind of like a political 464 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 2: guy in my life before October seventh. That was never political. 465 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 2: I was not. I kind of felt like just being 466 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 2: me in the world was political enough, you know, like 467 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 2: walking through the street as a black Jewish gay guy 468 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 2: with two kids. It's like, that's enough. I don't need 469 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 2: to do that. Completely. Yeah, changed, completely changed after October seventh, 470 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 2: and I became very vocal and outspoken on my social 471 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 2: media platforms and in many of the articles I wrote. 472 00:24:57,880 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 2: And one thing that I was really surprised, and I 473 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 2: for I knew this, but I was really heartened by 474 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 2: so many other different kinds of Jews, you know, Latin 475 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 2: Jews and Asian Jews and just all this bigger world 476 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 2: of Jews I was particularly connected to because I wasn't 477 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 2: a particularly you know, organizational Jew. I was just kind 478 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 2: of me, you know. So I've been I've been connected 479 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 2: to this whole world of Jews out there that's been 480 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 2: beautiful and wonderful. And it's occurred to me that, you know, 481 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 2: in our Jewish quest to participate in identity and social 482 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 2: justice and things like that, like, well, we have all 483 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 2: these things in Judaism itself. We have Jews of color, 484 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 2: we have feminist Jews, we have queer Jews, we have 485 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 2: you know, all kinds of Jews that fit into the 486 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 2: rubric of identity movements, intersectionality. Instead of wasting our collective 487 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 2: Jewish energy outside of Judaism. Supporting BLM. I'm supporting support 488 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:57,119 Speaker 2: Jews of color, support queers of color. Sorry, support Jewish 489 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 2: Jewish gay people. Support, support Jews that are want if 490 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 2: you want to support you know, unsung people, what we 491 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 2: have plenty of them in Judaism. Support them. Look inward, 492 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 2: you know what I mean. I mean this way to 493 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 2: do as Jews. 494 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna say, for. 495 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 1: For a Jewish Conservative like me, it's it's been good 496 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 1: to see sort of Jews on the left, you know, 497 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: the ones who I would say I normally didn't have 498 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: a lot in common with, kind of wake up to 499 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: the threat because it is a threat for all of us. 500 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: It's not just you know, it's not just going to 501 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: be some one type of Jew that that they target 502 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: or another type of Jew. I think what we've seen 503 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: is that it's it's all across the board. 504 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 3: I have to say. 505 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: Also, takun Olam is the biggest tell usually that you're 506 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: about to enter some like you know, super super left 507 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: congregation or I think you know, Jewish conservatives definitely have 508 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: jokes about the takun Olam, which for listeners who don't 509 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: know it means. 510 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,159 Speaker 3: Heal the world, which listen, we're all for healing the world. 511 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: But anyone who kind of you know that leads with that, 512 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,679 Speaker 1: I think it's always to us a tell that Judaism 513 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 1: is less of a concern for that place. 514 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 3: So I wanted to ask you. 515 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, one quick thing is that if we're going to 516 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 2: you know, if we're going to correct, if we're going 517 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 2: to fix the world, let's fix our world first. Yeah. No, 518 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,880 Speaker 2: our world as Jews needs fixing. We've spent too much 519 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:27,919 Speaker 2: time trying to fix the rest of the world, and 520 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 2: now when there was time for them to come help 521 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:35,880 Speaker 2: fix ourselves, they completely abandon us. So when I'm trying yeah, 522 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 2: all these Jewish values, put them back on Jews. Leave 523 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 2: the rest of the world alone for now. They can 524 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 2: take care of themselves because they're not taking care of us. 525 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 3: Right, and we can't wait for anybody to take care 526 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 3: of us. 527 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,639 Speaker 1: I think that's also been the message of the last 528 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: you know, almost two. 529 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 3: Months or I think that, you know. 530 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,400 Speaker 1: One of the other things that I ask a lot 531 00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: of my guests is you have a great career, you 532 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 1: have a beautiful family, You've you know, got it all 533 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 1: going on. 534 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,640 Speaker 3: Do you feel like you've made it. 535 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 2: I mean, I'd like some more money. I'll be off. 536 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:10,679 Speaker 2: I haven't written. 537 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 3: Send David Kaufman more money. 538 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 2: I could be you know, send me go fund me. 539 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 2: I have enough for now find it. I haven't written 540 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 2: a book yet, a book yet. I want to write 541 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,919 Speaker 2: a book. I wanted to tell more about my life 542 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 2: and my unique family background, and I think it could 543 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 2: be I think a lot of people would find a lot, 544 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 2: a lot of identity identification in it. I come from 545 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 2: a really interesting background. You My mom is the daughter 546 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 2: of European Yiddish speaking Jews, and my father is a 547 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 2: Southern Texan black guy. They met as hippies in California 548 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 2: and here I am. So, you know, I think that 549 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 2: there's a lot there that I think it could help 550 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 2: folks struggling to find a place in the world, because 551 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 2: I think we're all I am still trying to figure 552 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 2: out who I am. So I like to write a book. 553 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 2: And I also I feel like, especially after October seventh, 554 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 2: like I feel like I've been sort of awakened a 555 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 2: bit in a sense that you know, I think the 556 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 2: Jews right now, I don't a lot of Jews don't 557 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 2: know what to do or how to do or where 558 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 2: to turn. I think a lot of Jews are very 559 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 2: afraid to speak out. They're afraid of being branded a racist. 560 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 2: They're afraid of calling BLM or queer groups or feminist 561 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 2: groups on their s h I T. I don't know 562 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 2: which we can swear here, but like you know, I 563 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 2: think that like a lot of a lot of progressive 564 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 2: Jews and who are really really disappointed and sad right now, 565 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 2: are really scared to call black groups ship and say 566 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 2: why aren't you supporting They're afraid of being called racist. 567 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 2: And I'm here to say, as as someone who's black 568 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 2: and jew ers, like you know, let that go. We 569 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 2: don't the time that you know, I wrote in the 570 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 2: Ford a couple of weeks ago, the time for respectability 571 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 2: is over. Like like we're finding that, thank you. There's 572 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 2: no need to mince words anymore. Like we we we 573 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,479 Speaker 2: have nothing left to lose because we lost thousands and 574 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 2: we still have hundreds literally lost in Gaza, you know, 575 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 2: kidnapped by horrible people who could very well be you know, 576 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 2: be Pharaoh, murder them tomorrow. So the idea that we 577 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 2: need to sit around and accommodate and be worried and 578 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,479 Speaker 2: be worried what we're going to say and offending people. 579 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 2: No more, no more, band all you want, Yeah, banned 580 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 2: all you want. Because what's more offensive than being gang 581 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 2: raped in a kibbutz by Hamas terrorists? What's more offensive 582 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 2: than women seeing their children murdered in front of him? 583 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 2: What's more offensive than a man who thought his child 584 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 2: had been kidnapped by Hamas and said he was he 585 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 2: would have he would have wished, he would have more, 586 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 2: wished death upon her, but then to get his child back. 587 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 2: You know what's more offensive than a ten month old 588 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 2: baby now eleven eleven months being held in captivity and 589 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 2: possibly dead. Like that's offensive. That's offensive to me, right, Elma, 590 00:30:58,040 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 2: they're bullshit, that's notive. 591 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, the shots you can get on social media. 592 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 2: You know, yeah, take it, take the shots, you know, 593 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 2: that's right. But at the end of the day, like 594 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 2: we're fighting for our lives here. I mean that we 595 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 2: the folks who want to kill us, they've already killed 596 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 2: many of us, and they will kill us again. So 597 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 2: there's no mystery about what could happen out there, and 598 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 2: there's this is no time to worry about what people 599 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 2: think about us. We know what people think about us, 600 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 2: They think shit about us and want us to be 601 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 2: drowned in the sea. You know. 602 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I think that's such a great point that 603 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: the people who are afraid of bad comments on social 604 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 1: media like need to grow a pair and understand that 605 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: there's so much more, you know, at risk here than 606 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 1: somebody calling your names on your Instagram or Facebook or 607 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: you know, the coworker that you had ten years ago 608 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: standing you know with Palestine in your comment section. Is 609 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: the worst it's going to get for you. So be 610 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 1: braver and don't be afraid to say what you really think. 611 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm I'm also I'm also you know, fed 612 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 2: up with you know, with the people who are silent. 613 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 2: I mean, there's so many of my Jewish friends who 614 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 2: are kind of fancy and have little fancy, fancy lives 615 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 2: and you know, going to fancy events and so posting 616 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 2: what they're wearing Dallas on Instagram and I'm like, what 617 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 2: the fuck? You know what I mean? Like that that's over, 618 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 2: that's over, you know what I mean, That period's over? 619 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 2: Like do you you know you can you can hide 620 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 2: behind your you know, fancy Hampton's houses. All you want 621 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 2: were rich, you know, rich deep poppeted Jews. But eventually 622 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 2: the bad guys will come and they will burn those 623 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 2: houses down. We saw it in nineteen thirty, nineteen forty, 624 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 2: We've seen it throughout history. Like when the bad guys 625 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 2: are coming to get us, they will get us. You 626 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 2: cannot hide. So I'm also just very disappointed with so 627 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 2: many of kind of the Jews I see on Instagram 628 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 2: still acting as if you know it was October six. 629 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, I don't want to see your parties 630 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 2: or your baking more. You know, It's it's offensive. 631 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: Right, especially when you when you don't speak out, especially 632 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: when you're silent and you just pretend that everything's fine. 633 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 1: I think that that's that has been really offensive. And 634 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: I know exactly the kind of people that you're talking about. 635 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 1: I feel like I can talk to you for a while, 636 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: but I'm gonna let's end here with your best tip 637 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 1: for my listeners on how they can improve their lives, 638 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 1: because this is a show about living, and I'd love 639 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts. 640 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 2: But is basically basically it's a bit of a cliche, 641 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 2: but at the end of the day, never live in fear. 642 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 2: And I take this from my mom you know who she's. 643 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 2: You know, she's a complicated person. But I think about 644 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 2: her being, you know, a thirty something year old white 645 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 2: Jewish woman many years ago with these two brown kids, 646 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 2: and how she existed in the world even though it 647 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 2: was northern California much more progressive, you know, it still 648 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 2: was like the seventies and eighties, you know. And I remember, like, 649 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 2: you know, she would take us on vacations all over 650 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,240 Speaker 2: California and drive and once you left San Francisco, California 651 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 2: became much more conservative. And I remember, like, you know, 652 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 2: we never I never felt afraid with my mom growing 653 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 2: up as we traversed the world. And I know she 654 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 2: we haven't spoken about it so much, but I know 655 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,360 Speaker 2: like she must have felt afraid of times, Like I 656 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 2: was thinking, like what would happen when we were, you know, 657 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,720 Speaker 2: driving through rural California she had to stop and get gas, 658 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 2: you know, this single white woman with these two brown kids, 659 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 2: and like there must have been I mean, I'm afraid 660 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 2: sometimes today still, you know what I mean. But she 661 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 2: never ever transmitted that fear onto us. I never felt 662 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 2: insecure as a child with my mom, which is really 663 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 2: a testament to her and what I'm trying to say, 664 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:58,320 Speaker 2: is like, go through life not ignoring fear, but never 665 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 2: giving into it. Never give me into the fear. Like 666 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 2: it's a bit of a cliche say, don't live in fear. Well, 667 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 2: we have fear. We can't, we can't pretend like we do. 668 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 2: And some things are the moms are scary. But never 669 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 2: give into the fear. Never. That's one thing I will 670 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 2: say about myself, like, I do live in fear sometimes, 671 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 2: you know, but I don't give into the fear. And 672 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 2: I think about my mom and like when she was 673 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 2: raising us that there must have been a lot of 674 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 2: she must have many moments she was afraid, you know, 675 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 2: existing in the world as who she was with my 676 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 2: sister and I, But I never felt her transmitting that 677 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,319 Speaker 2: fear onto us, and I never felt insecure. And I 678 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,919 Speaker 2: have such respect for her for that. So I guess 679 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 2: what it is is acknowledge fear, embrace it, tackle it, 680 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 2: but never never, never give into it. That way, the 681 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,360 Speaker 2: bigause of failure is giving it to fear. 682 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 3: I love that. Don't surrender to your fear. Thank you 683 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 3: so much for coming on, David. I love talking to you. 684 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 3: Thank you for listening to the Carol Marcowich Show. 685 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,879 Speaker 1: Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.