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Speaker 1: Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast.

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Speaker 2: This week's Thursday Therapy, We've got Yasmin Shan. She has

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Speaker 2: a book out called Wisdom of the Path, The Beautiful

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Speaker 2: and Bumpy Ride to Healing and Trusting our Inner Guide.

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Speaker 3: Let's get her on.

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Speaker 2: I am so excited to talk to you. I feel

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Speaker 2: like this is coming at such a good time because

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Speaker 2: I find myself taking just really heavy deep breaths all

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Speaker 2: the time. And I just had my uh, I had

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Speaker 2: just I just had a third baby in my pelvic floor.

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Speaker 2: Lady just came over and she's like, I need you

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Speaker 2: just to first take a deep breath. And I'm like, oh, okay,

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Speaker 2: So you feel the you feel the tension, I know.

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Speaker 2: So I'm excited about your book because I think for me,

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Speaker 2: one of the hardest things, especially in the early beginning

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Speaker 2: of my healing journey, was actually trusting myself in it.

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Speaker 2: Now I feel like I trust myself a lot more,

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Speaker 2: But in the beginning, it's like it's a new way

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Speaker 2: of being that it's it's weird. So how do you

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Speaker 2: for the people that are just on this new journey

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Speaker 2: of healing and trusting themselves, how do you even trust

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Speaker 2: yourself when you're not even sure what to trust around you.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that's such a good question.

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Speaker 4: I think that's the hardest part, and it's one of

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Speaker 4: the reasons I wrote this book, because when we make mistakes,

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Speaker 4: we often tear ourselves up so badly that we are

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Speaker 4: unwilling to take another chance on ourselves.

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Speaker 1: We say, oh, I don't know if I want to

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Speaker 1: take another chance on love. I don't know if I

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Speaker 1: want to change my career. I'm not sure what can happen.

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Speaker 4: But I think that we really are afraid that we're

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Speaker 4: going to make the wrong choice again. And the worst

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Speaker 4: part about that is the disappointment in knowing.

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Speaker 1: That we thought it was the right thing to do.

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Speaker 4: So Unfortunately, the only way that we can learn to

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Speaker 4: trust ourselves is by taking that risk. Through it, we

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Speaker 4: learn wow, that gut feeling was telling me no, got it,

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Speaker 4: Or we learn that was actually which and pushing me

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Speaker 4: to move forward.

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Speaker 1: It's through the experience, it's through the lessons.

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Speaker 4: It's through the tough times that we gain the wisdom

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Speaker 4: that leads us forward in the first place.

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Speaker 2: It's so interesting that you say that, because I think

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Speaker 2: I definitely felt that with my my new relationship. In

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Speaker 2: the very beginning stages, I'm like, Okay, it feels different,

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Speaker 2: but I'm so afraid to trust it because I don't

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Speaker 2: want to look like a fool again that I jumped

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Speaker 2: into something and it's like, oh, I'm proven to be

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Speaker 2: you know, I picked wrong again, or and it's that

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Speaker 2: murky kind of feeling like I don't want to look

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Speaker 2: like a fool, especially because publicly, you know, I'll be made.

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Speaker 3: To look like that again.

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Speaker 2: But there's something too that you're right, like in people

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Speaker 2: will always be like, well, how do you know? How

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Speaker 2: do you trust again? It's like I'd rather try to

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Speaker 2: trust again than never trust again.

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Speaker 4: And I think especially when you're talking about relationships, romantic relationships,

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Speaker 4: but even if friendships. I think that when we when

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Speaker 4: someone turns out to be different than we thought they were.

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Speaker 1: When they feel like the rug was literally pulled from under.

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Speaker 4: Us and it's like you're a completely different person than

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Speaker 4: I thought you were, or in hindsight, we think, actually,

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Speaker 4: there were tons of signs telling me that this person

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Speaker 4: was not for me, and I was maybe ignoring it,

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Speaker 4: maybe afraid to admit it to myself, hoping they would

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Speaker 4: change all the things that we all do, and I

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Speaker 4: think reminding ourselves in romantic relationships that I deserve love

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Speaker 4: and I deserve to be in a relationship with someone

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Speaker 4: who is providing healthy love, and if this feels.

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Speaker 1: Healthy to me, I'm going to follow.

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Speaker 4: That until I see red flags, and I'm going to

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Speaker 4: follow it with intention. I'm not just going to blindly

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Speaker 4: jump into a relationship. I'm going to ask questions the

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Speaker 4: questions I was too afraid to ask the last time.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to take my time getting to know them,

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Speaker 4: versus ignoring all the things that are telling me that

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Speaker 4: they're not being an open book with me.

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Speaker 1: Like, we have to be.

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Speaker 4: Willing to give ourselves the benefit of the doubt, and

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Speaker 4: I think even in romantic relationships and friendships, give ourselves

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Speaker 4: grace because sometimes people are pretending to be someone that

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Speaker 4: they're not, and with all the questions and all the experience,

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Speaker 4: we still might find ourselves in a relationship with someone who's.

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Speaker 1: Not aligned with who we would want in our lives,

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Speaker 1: and we couldn't have we couldn't have seen it otherwise.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. No, that piece is so huge to the being

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Speaker 2: fooled again, because I think there's a piece where in

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Speaker 2: the healing journey to be able to go all right.

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Speaker 2: I trust myself enough to be able to you know,

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Speaker 2: to move forward in this, but I don't. I feel

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Speaker 2: like early on if you don't so like, Okay, if

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Speaker 2: I was to look back on my ex relationship, I'd

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Speaker 2: have been like, oh, I had all the gut signs

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Speaker 2: to not trust this person, but I, you know, it

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Speaker 2: was like it's okay, it's all good, everything's fine, and

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Speaker 2: I wasn't blindsided. I think I would be massively blindsided

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Speaker 2: and if anything were to ever happen in my relationship now,

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Speaker 2: because I don't have any of those signs. But I

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Speaker 2: think that's a piece of that healing too, because when

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Speaker 2: I look back on even guys that I dated post divorce,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, well that was a you know, he

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Speaker 2: wasn't matching his words and actions and he lied about this,

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Speaker 2: or you know, it's I wouldn't have continued dating someone

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Speaker 2: like that because I've done the work to go all right.

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Speaker 2: That's that's not aligning with what I want and how

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Speaker 2: it's going to most likely probably end too. It's not

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Speaker 2: going to be a good relationship. So I think a

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Speaker 2: lot of times like what is what is some of

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Speaker 2: your biggest tips in your book to have that intuition

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Speaker 2: to trust, to keep going, and to trust yourself.

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Speaker 4: I talk about this in my book in terms of

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Speaker 4: like I've been divorced, I'm I'm married again.

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Speaker 1: I've been married for.

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Speaker 4: Wow, almost a decade now. And I think that when

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Speaker 4: you meet someone and I was a single mom, I

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Speaker 4: don't know if you had that experience, but like it's

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Speaker 4: a whole new ballgame and you're dating with kids because

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Speaker 4: it's like you cannot come in and jack this up,

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Speaker 4: so you just can't. So you know when we are

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Speaker 4: even if you're not dating and you're listening to this

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Speaker 4: and you're in a situation where I thought I knew

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Speaker 4: what I was getting myself into before I didn't, And

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Speaker 4: now I want to trust myself again, and how can

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Speaker 4: I really allow it in I think one of the

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Speaker 4: really interesting things we can do is.

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Speaker 1: Get curious with ourselves.

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Speaker 4: We're often looking for the validation that we're doing the

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Speaker 4: right thing in other people.

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Speaker 1: We're looking for the right flags.

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Speaker 4: We're looking for them to show up with particular behavior,

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Speaker 4: which I think is important.

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Speaker 1: We want to see people showing up and being who

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Speaker 1: they say they are.

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Speaker 4: But get curious within yourself. How do I feel when

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Speaker 4: I'm around them? I think in previous relationships, if I'm

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Speaker 4: honest with myself, even friendships, I didn't feel comfortable with

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Speaker 4: certain people that I was trying to make it work with,

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Speaker 4: and I was paying attention to what they were doing. Okay,

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Speaker 4: they showed up great this time. Maybe I'm maybe I'm

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Speaker 4: maybe I'm overreacting. They did the thing this time, they

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Speaker 4: got me a gift. Oh my gosh, maybe I'm you know,

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Speaker 4: wrong about them. But in my gut, if I was

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Speaker 4: being curious, it's myself. I feel nervous when I'm around them.

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Speaker 4: I feel anxious when I'm around them. I'm always on eggshells.

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Speaker 4: And so if we just lead with curiosity when we're

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Speaker 4: trying again, when we're trying to put ourselves out there again,

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Speaker 4: when we're trying to learn to trust ourselves.

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Speaker 1: Again, we'll learn that our bodies actually give us a lot.

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Speaker 4: Of information and that it is safe to trust ourselves

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Speaker 4: because our bodies are telling us.

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Speaker 1: How we feel.

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Speaker 4: And when we follow those breadcrumbs, we often get that

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Speaker 4: hopefully compassionate truth that yes, this is aligned or this isn't.

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Speaker 4: And I know it's hard when I'm saying it in

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Speaker 4: that way, people are like, oh my god, I feel

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Speaker 4: so many things in my body. It does take time,

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Speaker 4: and it does take patience, and it does, and I'll

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Speaker 4: be honest. For me, I teach this work and I

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Speaker 4: still feel like for myself, it's a lifelong journey in

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Speaker 4: giving myself the grace to be human and know that

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Speaker 4: it's not always going to work out the way that

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Speaker 4: I hope.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: That's such an important piece too.

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Speaker 2: The listening to your body, because I remember I this

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Speaker 2: is when I was in the dating phases post divorce,

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Speaker 2: and I went to therapy and I told my therapist

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Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, I'm like I'm just having

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Speaker 2: so much anxiety. And she's like, all right, well let's

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Speaker 2: let's talk it out. And I was like, you know,

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Speaker 2: I got I got done with anxiety, and now I'm

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Speaker 2: having it again, Like this is so frustrating. So when

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Speaker 2: we started to piece it together, it was every time

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Speaker 2: I was around the guy that I was dating, and

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Speaker 2: I was like, I'm like, okay, so can we do

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Speaker 2: some emdr to like fix this anxiety. She's like no,

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Speaker 2: She's like, listen to your body. Your body is telling

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Speaker 2: you that you either you're not safe or like, what

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Speaker 2: is the and I'm like, and then so the when

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Speaker 2: we talked about it, I was like, whoa, I don't

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Speaker 2: feel you know, I don't feel like I can trust this.

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Speaker 2: And so she's like, that is your sign. She's like,

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Speaker 2: you have to listen to your body. She's like, that's

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Speaker 2: the piece of anxiety. We don't want to go away.

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Speaker 2: She's like, because when that comes up, you have to go, Okay,

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Speaker 2: what about this place feels unsafe? What about this person

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Speaker 2: feels unsafe? What is making me feel you know, not certain?

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Speaker 2: Like those are the pieces. She's like, that's the piece

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Speaker 2: anxiety that you want to keep, you know, is the

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Speaker 2: parts of listening to your body. And that was just

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Speaker 2: so interesting to me because I've never really placed that

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Speaker 2: in that kind of situation. I just thought I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 2: it's me, I'm a problem. I have anxiety.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And we can light to ourselves for so long, right, Like,

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Speaker 4: we can meet someone that sounds amazing, and we'll begin

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Speaker 4: to operate in that relationship the exact same way that

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Speaker 4: we've seen our parents operate in relationships or people in.

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Speaker 1: The past or friends, and so we'll.

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Speaker 4: Light to ourselves and when I say lie, I don't

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Speaker 4: mean like intentionally, like unconsciously, we are lying to ourselves

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Speaker 4: that everything is great, because if we were honest, we'd

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Speaker 4: have to leave. So we start to like, oh, you know,

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Speaker 4: like gaze over things, and we don't really tell ourselves

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Speaker 4: the truth. But our body cannot. Our body will continue

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Speaker 4: to like blaze that red flag. Our body will continue

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Speaker 4: to found these alarms. If you're around people and you

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Speaker 4: feel nervous, you feel shaky, you feel egg shelly, you

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Speaker 4: don't feel like you can be yourself. Oh, if you

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Speaker 4: don't feel like you can say hard things or have

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Speaker 4: tough conversations, being uncomfortable is completely different than not feeling safe.

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Speaker 1: We all feel uncomfortable.

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Speaker 4: We have tough conversations, even with the people we trust,

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Speaker 4: because it's you know, nobody wants to have tough conversations.

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Speaker 4: But feeling like you aren't safe saying something being yourself,

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Speaker 4: that's completely different. And it doesn't have to be physical

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Speaker 4: abuse for you to feel unsafe. It can just be

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Speaker 4: an emotionally unsafe environment for you, and it may be

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Speaker 4: great for somebody else, but honoring that it's not.

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Speaker 1: Working for you is how we learn to trust ourselves.

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Speaker 4: The moment that we choose ourselves and we don't ignore,

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Speaker 4: because unfortunately, you know what we do ignore, we're kind

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Speaker 4: of betraying ourselves.

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Speaker 1: We all do it.

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Speaker 4: So it's like, give yourself that grace and give yourself

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Speaker 4: that self forgiveness, like I was doing the best that

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Speaker 4: I could in that moment, and then move forward knowing

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Speaker 4: but my body knows, and I can remember how my

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Speaker 4: body knew, and I trust that I'll choose myself the

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Speaker 4: next time I have a choice between myself and someone else.

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Speaker 2: Right when was it for you that you kind of

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Speaker 2: had that wisdom aha moment?

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Speaker 4: The first time that that moment happened for me, I

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Speaker 4: would say, when I was going through my divorce, I

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Speaker 4: don't think that there's anything because when you get married,

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Speaker 4: and I know that this is going to sound really naive,

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Speaker 4: but you really think.

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Speaker 1: That this is it. And when someone begins to.

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Speaker 4: When it doesn't work the way that you imagined, and

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Speaker 4: when things start to fall apart, the first thing that

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Speaker 4: you start to ask yourself.

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Speaker 1: Is how did I get here? How am I here?

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Speaker 4: And I think when I started to ask myself that question,

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Speaker 4: I realized and I posted about this yesterday. I was

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Speaker 4: trying to make things work. And if I'm honest with

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Speaker 4: myself and I look back, it could have fallen apart

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Speaker 4: before I got to marriage. It could have fallen apart

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Speaker 4: before I chose a certain career. But I was really

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Speaker 4: holding on, like clinching, like I'm going to make this work.

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Speaker 4: And I think that that first moment of wisdom for

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Speaker 4: me was, first of all, let things go when they

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Speaker 4: want to go, let them go. But secondly, if it's

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Speaker 4: not meant to be, if it's not aligned, it's going

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Speaker 4: to end. So it would it's going to be painful,

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Speaker 4: but it would be easier and better for myself if

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Speaker 4: I choose myself as early as I know that it's

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Speaker 4: time to let something go, rather than wait and try

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Speaker 4: to make something work that it's clear it's not already working.

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Speaker 4: So that was probably the first time for me that

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Speaker 4: I really begin to realize I already have the wisdom

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Speaker 4: in me. I'll just be honest and say, though I

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Speaker 4: was like, I'm scared because what I think I want

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Speaker 4: and what i'm the signs i'm getting and what my

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Speaker 4: body's telling me I want are not the same.

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Speaker 1: So how am I going to find what's really for me?

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Speaker 4: Because I've never even done this, nor have I seen

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Speaker 4: anyone done this before. I've never seen anyone in a

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Speaker 4: relationship with they felt like they were aligned and with

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Speaker 4: the person.

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Speaker 1: That they were supposed to be with. So it was this.

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Speaker 4: Very conflicting feeling of recognizing I trust myself and also

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Speaker 4: I have never seen this done before, and I'm terrified

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Speaker 4: of what this is going to look like if I

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Speaker 4: put myself out there again.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think there's that piece, and I think there's

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Speaker 2: also in this day and age, I feel like it's

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Speaker 2: hard to let go because of perception of things, right,

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Speaker 2: So like you might be holding on, like I know

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Speaker 2: I was. I held on to something for too long

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Speaker 2: for a lot of reasons, but mostly because I didn't

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Speaker 2: want to look like a fool again, you know, and

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Speaker 2: because especially living life publicly, it's like, all right, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to have the criticism. I'm going to have, you know,

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Speaker 2: people coming at me and saying now I'm the problem

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Speaker 2: or there she goes again in their failed marriage, and

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Speaker 2: it's like, and I think people, you know, they they

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Speaker 2: want the perception. I don't think everything's perfect, right, so

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Speaker 2: I don't you know, you shouldn't just let go of

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Speaker 2: the second that things are hard. I'm a big advocate

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Speaker 2: for working through things, but I think it is difficult too, because,

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Speaker 2: at least for me, I was I just deem myself

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Speaker 2: as unlovable, so no one would most.

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Speaker 3: Likely love me if I got divorced.

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Speaker 2: I've got two kids, I'm almost forty at that time,

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Speaker 2: and so I think it's just hard because I think

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Speaker 2: people go to, well, this is probably as good as

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Speaker 2: it's going to get for me. Yeah, So what would

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Speaker 2: you say to the person that is having a hard

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Speaker 2: time trusting that they actually do deserve better than what

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Speaker 2: they're being dealt in the moment?

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. I think that.

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Speaker 4: So many of us have been in situations where someone

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Speaker 4: has said to us, you have to love yourself before

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Speaker 4: you can love somebody else. You know, I got to

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Speaker 4: be honest with you. I do not believe that you

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Speaker 4: have to love yourself where you can love somebody else.

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Speaker 2: I always say like, I had to love myself before

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Speaker 2: I could let someone love me.

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Speaker 3: But I had to.

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Speaker 2: But for me, it was I had to know that

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Speaker 2: I was worth loving. So I had to like love

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Speaker 2: the broken parts of me so that I didn't have

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Speaker 2: to always constantly feel like I was defending myself or

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Speaker 2: you know, yeah.

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Speaker 4: I also don't even believe we're broken. I think that

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Speaker 4: we useage language. And I'm not saying that you can't

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Speaker 4: use the self, but for listeners, I think it's just

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Speaker 4: we use this language that people say, oh, I was

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Speaker 4: broken or I was insecure. And I do think it's

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Speaker 4: true that learning to love yourself is a journey, especially

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Speaker 4: if it's not something you were taught growing up. I

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Speaker 4: wasn't taught that growing up.

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Speaker 1: I thought I was.

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Speaker 4: I thought I was pretty confident. I learned that confidence

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Speaker 4: and loving yourself and walking around in the world like

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Speaker 4: you love yourself, and making decisions like you love yourself.

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Speaker 4: It's very different than confidence, because I'm sure you would

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Speaker 4: agree to like in business, you'll come in, you'll kick ass,

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Speaker 4: but then in other areas.

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Speaker 1: It's like right.

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Speaker 4: So I do not think that we have to love

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Speaker 4: ourselves in order to love the people or allow love in.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that is a blessing, because if.

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Speaker 4: We had to absolutely love ourselves fully in order to

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Speaker 4: allow people to be there for us, to show it,

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Speaker 4: for us, to care for us, to show kindness to us,

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Speaker 4: to be empathetic to us, I don't think healing would

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Speaker 4: be possible.

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Speaker 3: So then what is it? Then you tell me what

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Speaker 3: do you think it should be?

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Speaker 4: Then I do think we have to be willing to

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Speaker 4: see the hard parts of ourselves. I don't think that

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Speaker 4: we have to necessarily love the hard parts that we're seeing.

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Speaker 4: I think a lot of people are waiting for the

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Speaker 4: moment that it's like, all right, I finally feel like

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Speaker 4: I hold myself together. I think that comes after I'm

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Speaker 4: willing to be vulnerable and say to someone, you know what,

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Speaker 4: I don't think that I care about myself in the

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Speaker 4: way that I should, or I don't think that I

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Speaker 4: think positively about myself, or I don't think that my self.

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Speaker 1: Worth is where it should be.

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Speaker 4: I think that we're willing to and I don't know

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Speaker 4: if you agree with this, but for me, it was

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Speaker 4: with friends. It was in my community that I was

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Speaker 4: willing to finally admit and let them see.

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Speaker 1: That the perception that I may have been shown was

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Speaker 1: not the.

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Speaker 4: Reality that I didn't feel as good about myself as

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Speaker 4: I thought I did. That I was settling in relationships

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Speaker 4: and not just romantically and friendships in a lot of

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Speaker 4: areas where I was allowing people to have more access

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Speaker 4: to me or to have more.

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Speaker 1: Of me, and the relationship wasn't reciprocal.

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Speaker 4: It took me admitting that with my friends. It took

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Speaker 4: me admitting that in therapy. It took me admitting that

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Speaker 4: with myself and letting those walls down because I had

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Speaker 4: so many barriers up. Not because I didn't want anyone,

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Speaker 4: in the complete opposite, I did, but I didn't believe

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Speaker 4: that it was possible. I didn't believe I could trust people.

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Speaker 4: And I think I think sharing this is important because

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Speaker 4: I think there's so many people that will hear this,

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Speaker 4: and I think there's so many people that feel like

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Speaker 4: I'm not healing correctly because it still don't fully love myself.

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Speaker 4: I still don't have this all figured out, and I.

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Speaker 1: Still have moments where I beat myself up.

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Speaker 4: I still have moments where I say thanks to myself,

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Speaker 4: and I catch myself now saying terrible things, and then

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Speaker 4: I say, Wow, you know what do you need right now?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Let's you know, let's let's go on a friend, let's

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Speaker 4: write in your journal, let's do whatever it is that's

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Speaker 4: going to bring you back to yourself. I think the

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Speaker 4: evidence of healing and the evidence that you loved yourself.

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Speaker 4: Is that when you're in those moments, you're able to

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Speaker 4: see it, You're able to find whoever or whatever is

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Speaker 4: going to connect you back to yourself, and then you're

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Speaker 4: able to make the change and the choice from there

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Speaker 4: to allow someone or to allow life to come in.

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Speaker 1: Does that make sense?

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Speaker 3: It does?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, no, it definitely, it definitely does make sense.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I definitely I hear you on that. I'm curious.

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Speaker 2: So okay, so you have you had another book too,

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Speaker 2: the Sugar Jarts, about creating boundaries in your life, do

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Speaker 2: you think? I mean, I know there's the boundaries is

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Speaker 2: like have boundaries with people. But I also think it's

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Speaker 2: really important, right for boundaries for yourself. And I think

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Speaker 2: that that coincides with then the healing and the trusting right.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, I talk about it in the book. But I

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Speaker 4: don't think that we can set boundaries with other people

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Speaker 4: until we're willing.

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Speaker 1: To honor the boundaries to set with ourselves.

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Speaker 4: And in my work in the way that I teach,

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Speaker 4: I talk about it in Sugar jar And and Wisdom

404
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Speaker 4: of the Path, I always think we should start with self.

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Speaker 1: I always think that we.

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Speaker 4: Should ask ourselves, like if you're dating, for example, and

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Speaker 4: your partner does something that triggers you, The knee jerk

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Speaker 4: reaction for most of us is to address our partner

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Speaker 4: and say, why did you do that? You know, when

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Speaker 4: you did that, it triggered me, it made me feel

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Speaker 4: this way. I think that that's important to do and

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Speaker 4: to have that conversation, but I invite people to be

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Speaker 4: curious about the question with themselves first. Why did what

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Speaker 4: my partner do trigger me? What did I need in

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Speaker 4: that moment that I didn't feel like I was getting?

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Speaker 4: How can I give it to myself? If we set

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Speaker 4: the boundaries with ourselves first, This is how I'm going

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Speaker 4: to show.

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Speaker 1: Up in my life.

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Speaker 4: This is the way I want my community to be.

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Speaker 4: This is how I want my relationships. This is what

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Speaker 4: I you know, how I want to argue with my partnership.

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Speaker 4: I want to be in this kind of a healthy

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Speaker 4: situation in my life with the people that I'm in

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Speaker 4: relationship with. If we show up that way, then we

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Speaker 4: are also mirroring to other people what we require, And

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Speaker 4: then when we set our boundaries, we're more likely to

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Speaker 4: advocate for ourselves and to stand firm and in them.

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Speaker 4: If we don't on our own boundaries. For example, something

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Speaker 4: as simple as I don't answer the phone after eight pm.

431
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Speaker 4: If you have your do not Disturb on at APM

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Speaker 4: and every time somebody calls you at nine thirty you

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Speaker 4: answer that boundary, it's pointless and that's why they're calling

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Speaker 4: because they know you're going to answer. And that sounds

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Speaker 4: like a really basic example, but that's a boundary that

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Speaker 4: a lot of us try to set with ourselves so

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Speaker 4: that we can get rest. I don't know about you,

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Speaker 4: but I'm like exhausted and I need more sleep than

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Speaker 4: I often allow myself. But if I'm not taking care

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00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:45,719
Speaker 4: of myself in the way that I say that, I

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00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,080
Speaker 4: am not perfectly because I'm a recovering perfectionist. I'm not

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Speaker 4: saying be perfect, but at least try to do what

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00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:55,520
Speaker 4: you say that you're going to do, and if you don't,

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00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,439
Speaker 4: be honest with yourself about when you're not, so that

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Speaker 4: you can do the same thing and with the people

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Speaker 4: you're in relationship with. And it's tough, but I think

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Speaker 4: starting with ourselves is the way that we really gain

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Speaker 4: that growth that we're seeking from healing in the first place.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that.

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Speaker 2: I love that so much. What do you want your

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Speaker 2: biggest takeaway to be with your book? Wisdom of the Path?

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Speaker 4: I hope that this book is an invitation to take

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Speaker 4: the lessons of your past as the rediliant person that

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Speaker 4: you are, that you have survived so much that, of

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00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 4: course we wish we didn't have to go through some

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00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:35,679
Speaker 4: of the things we went through, and we wish we

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00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 4: would have listened and all the things. But I do

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Speaker 4: believe that we are able to be present and grounded

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Speaker 4: and grateful for where we are when we take the

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Speaker 4: people and the versions of ourselves in the past that

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00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 4: made the choices and that got us to where we

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Speaker 4: are today. If we take them into our arms of

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Speaker 4: pole a child like, if we take them with kindness,

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Speaker 4: if we take them with love, if we take with grace,

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Speaker 4: I think it helps us to be present and love

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Speaker 4: ourselves now, to release the burden of guilt and resentfulness

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Speaker 4: that we're carrying. And I hope people are willing to

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Speaker 4: do that so that as they move forward in their lives.

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Speaker 1: I hope they feel free.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost like replacing brokenness with resilience. Yes, yes, well,

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Speaker 2: I just I love you. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 2: coming on. Everyone, please please get wisdom of the path,

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Speaker 2: the beautiful and bumpy ride to healing and trusting our

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Speaker 2: inner guide. Thank you so much for coming on. Really

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Speaker 2: appreciate it. Bane girl Bye.