Speaker 1: Hi.
Speaker 2: I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
Speaker 2: and speaker.
Speaker 3: And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician,
Speaker 3: writer and course creator. We are two working parents who
Speaker 3: love our careers and our families.
Speaker 2: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
Speaker 2: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun,
Speaker 2: from figuring out childcare to mapping out long.
Speaker 1: Term career goals.
Speaker 2: We want you to get the most out of life.
Speaker 1: Welcome the best of both worlds. This is Laura.
Speaker 2: This episode is airing in early January of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2: We're recording in twenty twenty four, so it's a little
Speaker 2: weird to be saying that.
Speaker 1: But welcome to the new year.
Speaker 2: Welcome past Laura and Sarah to the new year, and
Speaker 2: welcome everybody as well. Very excited to be starting on
Speaker 2: a new year, twenty twenty five of best of both
Speaker 2: world content. So today we're going to be discussing winter
Speaker 2: fun and then also doing a deep dive into time tracking.
Speaker 2: We'll be talking a little bit more about why you
Speaker 2: might want to consider time tracking this time of year.
Speaker 2: But in the meantime, Sarah, I hear you are recording
Speaker 2: from a different location in your house.
Speaker 1: Why is that?
Speaker 3: Yes, So speaking of winter, you know all those winter
Speaker 3: viruses that seem to crop up and school and propagate
Speaker 3: everywhere just in time for your vacation. Well, we have
Speaker 3: some influenza in our house right now. Our family does
Speaker 3: all get flu shots. So you know, we tried. But yeah,
Speaker 3: so my husband is sick and I tried to go
Speaker 3: into my recording studio, but I could hear his coughing,
Speaker 3: and I didn't think that would make a very nice
Speaker 3: soundtrack to the episode.
Speaker 2: I'm in Winter fun with a coughing soundtrack Winter not fun.
Speaker 3: I mean it is sort of appropriate it as a
Speaker 3: program in Yeah, I mean Annabel's room. You can see
Speaker 3: the leg slightly purple.
Speaker 1: Nice, I like, I like you did you guys?
Speaker 4: Do that?
Speaker 1: You put the purple in?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: That wasn't already there?
Speaker 3: She picked it like when we moved in.
Speaker 2: She's already like she already wants something else. Absolutely welcome
Speaker 2: to teen tween life exactly. Yeah, we had about of
Speaker 2: the stomach bug this week in our house, which was
Speaker 2: really lovely.
Speaker 1: You know, Winter not fun for sure. It's been a while.
Speaker 2: I was grateful It's been a while since I've been
Speaker 2: up most of the night with a sick child, but
Speaker 2: I've experienced it again, so now I'm hoping I won't
Speaker 2: for a long time.
Speaker 1: Because it is most definitely not fun.
Speaker 2: But this episode is about more positive topics, like, uh,
Speaker 2: winter fun, Sarah, you live somewhere that winter actually is
Speaker 2: fun on its own. I mean, this is like the
Speaker 2: time when everyone wants to come visit you in Florida.
Speaker 3: I know, And I feel bad when we record these
Speaker 3: episodes because I'm like, I know, the idea of winter
Speaker 3: fun was like the cozy and the hunkering down, and like,
Speaker 3: I just my experience is not aligned with that, and
Speaker 3: I'm sorry. I've experienced winters in the past. I mean,
Speaker 3: Williamstown had a real significant winter that made me move
Speaker 3: south for the rest of my life, so I get it.
Speaker 3: So but here, yeah, it's actually probably my favorite season.
Speaker 3: We have beautiful running temperatures. I don't have to live
Speaker 3: in like anticipation of thunderstorms every day. I kind of
Speaker 3: like the earlier darkness because the kids go to bed easier.
Speaker 3: I really don't love when it's like nine o'clock and
Speaker 3: still light and I have, you know, a kid under
Speaker 3: the age of eight or so, and it's like it's bedtime. Anyway,
Speaker 3: we usually go skiing, which is a fun winter highlight.
Speaker 3: And then yeah, I just feel like the way I
Speaker 3: see winter is probably how a lot of other people
Speaker 3: see summer. But the way I see summer is how
Speaker 3: a lot of people see winter.
Speaker 2: So it's fair and you like winter. I mean, so
Speaker 2: you like winter. It's like your favorite time of year
Speaker 2: there right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say it's my I would say, yeah,
Speaker 3: it's my We're in my favorite season.
Speaker 1: You're in your favorite season.
Speaker 2: Awesome, Well, it is not my favorite season, not even close.
Speaker 2: And I mean it's we do get snow in this
Speaker 2: part of the world. We get definitely get all four seasons.
Speaker 2: We probably have three to four major snow falls a
Speaker 2: year that are then there for a couple days to
Speaker 2: a week. I know, we have had winters with long
Speaker 2: term snow cover. It tends not to be the whole
Speaker 2: winter we have snowcover. So a couple of years ago,
Speaker 2: February through to March there was snow on the ground
Speaker 2: every single day. So it has happened even in this
Speaker 2: modern era. But that said, it's not usual. It's more
Speaker 2: that it snows and then it melts, and then it
Speaker 2: snows again, and then it melts.
Speaker 1: We get a lot of yuck rain. We're often in.
Speaker 2: The high is for the day, are very frequently in
Speaker 2: the thirty two to thirty seven degree range, which is
Speaker 2: not really nature's most beautiful place to put a high
Speaker 2: for the day if it's going to precipitate. So yeah,
Speaker 2: a lot of that, but I've been trying to convince
Speaker 2: myself to enjoy it. Many years ago I wrote a
Speaker 2: post for Fast Company called the Norwegian Secret to Enjoying
Speaker 2: a law Winter, which was based on some research that
Speaker 2: someone had done about people living in Trumsa and such
Speaker 2: places in Norway that they are not just chronically depressed
Speaker 2: from November to January even though they don't see the sun,
Speaker 2: they actually really get into it. And you know, maybe
Speaker 2: it's that those are the people who have selected to
Speaker 2: live there, or even genetically if they're more traditional Norwegian
Speaker 2: folk who have just never left, but it's that, you know,
Speaker 2: they come up with ways to enjoy it, like as humans,
Speaker 2: where social creatures, we come up with ways to have
Speaker 2: community celebrations in the winter. I mean, the whole idea
Speaker 2: of Christmas, of course, is in the darkest part of
Speaker 2: the year, right after the solstice, you have this festival
Speaker 2: of light, and you can do other things to stretch
Speaker 2: that out for the two months where you don't see
Speaker 2: the sun, and you can do a lot of outdoor
Speaker 2: things like skiing and sledding and snowshoeing, and they get
Speaker 2: into that. So I don't know, I've been trying to
Speaker 2: It's work in progress.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you always have a winter fun list. I
Speaker 3: guess that's part of your efforts of like finding bright
Speaker 3: spots and looking for things that are positives about the season.
Speaker 1: Perhaps, Yeah, I mean it's sort of.
Speaker 2: I mean, so I think the winter fun list is
Speaker 2: more like it is seasonal specific. But then some of
Speaker 2: them are things that are getting me out of the cold,
Speaker 2: so you have to kind of realize that it's also
Speaker 2: just fun things that I'm planning to do in winter.
Speaker 2: So I'd be curious, Sarah, you're making a winter fun
Speaker 2: list list this year?
Speaker 1: What's on yours?
Speaker 3: Well, I only made it because you told me too
Speaker 3: for this episode.
Speaker 1: Fine, but I like it.
Speaker 3: You can still share it, I know, I definitely will. No,
Speaker 3: I mean, I do seasonal planning, you know that, Like
Speaker 3: I do my seasonal goal setting. I don't always think
Speaker 3: about as much about like the weather and like that
Speaker 3: type of season, but I kind of I liked it,
Speaker 3: so I mean, this will probably make be my inspiration
Speaker 3: when I do sit down and do my like Q
Speaker 3: one planning. But then I also thought about, like the
Speaker 3: end of December also counts this winter, even though this
Speaker 3: episode does air Anyuary. So my winter fun list has
Speaker 3: things that kind of remind me that it is winter
Speaker 3: because sometimes I kind of feel like I want that reminder.
Speaker 3: And then also that take advantage of our nicer weather.
Speaker 3: So I have on there my neighborhood hang which I
Speaker 3: mentioned in my yearly episode, so I want to do
Speaker 3: that during the winter. I want to ski. I want
Speaker 3: to ski every winter, so this is just going to
Speaker 3: be a perennial winter fun list item. Unfortunately, living in Florida,
Speaker 3: it's not like I can like go a few times
Speaker 3: or a few weekends or something, but.
Speaker 1: At least come up here.
Speaker 3: Yes, I could do like two trips if I was
Speaker 3: really ambitious, but yeah, right now, we're just gonna aim
Speaker 3: for one and then you know, ski a few days
Speaker 3: on said trip. I would like to make some fun
Speaker 3: hot chocolate, So that's an item, like, do we need
Speaker 3: hot chocolate when it's high of seventy two? Probably not,
Speaker 3: but I want to remember that it's winter, so let's
Speaker 3: make some like really dark, delicious, French style hot chocolate.
Speaker 3: I'm copying you that I think I might like to
Speaker 3: go to a Dolphins game because Josh has put that
Speaker 3: on our family's list for a while and we just
Speaker 3: haven't made it happen. I don't know if every family
Speaker 3: member is going to be as excited about it, but
Speaker 3: you know, maybe a subset of us could go. I
Speaker 3: looked ahead to the media coming out in this season,
Speaker 3: and I'm very much looking forward to watching White Lotus,
Speaker 3: so that'll be a fun, cozy activity to do. Comes
Speaker 3: out in February. I would like to make some good
Speaker 3: soups or stews, which also aligns with like having better
Speaker 3: lunches for work, so this is great also fits in seasonally.
Speaker 3: And then two more, I want to resurrect the book
Speaker 3: club this season because I feel like everyone will just
Speaker 3: have the January energy and to be completely transparent, like
Speaker 3: it's already scheduled so I know I'll be able to
Speaker 3: check this off. And then finally, I think it would
Speaker 3: be really fun to do a massage with some kind
Speaker 3: of heat element, so yeah, hot stones, tubs. I've moved
Speaker 3: away from the idea that I can fit or afford
Speaker 3: like responsibly monthly massages, but like seasonally I could do well.
Speaker 2: If you're buying all those super shoes, right, I mean,
Speaker 2: it's you would have to give it to the super choice.
Speaker 1: In order to have the massage every month.
Speaker 3: Yeah, have to give up something to have something. So
Speaker 3: I think seasonal is a happy medium.
Speaker 1: Seasonal is a happy meeting. Excellent.
Speaker 2: Let's see on mine, We're gonna go hopefully outdoor ice
Speaker 2: skating again.
Speaker 1: We actually did this in December.
Speaker 2: I took three of the kids to the rink that
Speaker 2: is downtown, that is on the Delaware waterfront.
Speaker 1: And I actually really like this.
Speaker 2: I mean, provided it as the weather is cooperating, Like
Speaker 2: I would not want to be doing this if it
Speaker 2: were freezing rain and thirty two to seven thirty seven degrees.
Speaker 1: As sometimes happens.
Speaker 2: But we went on a day where it was about
Speaker 2: thirty three degrees and sunny, which was absolutely perfect because
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously if it gets up to like forty
Speaker 2: five then the ice is terrible and it's no fun
Speaker 2: at all. But if it's right around freezing, then the
Speaker 2: ice is frozen, but you are also not freezing because
Speaker 2: it's not terribly overwhelmingly cold, so that's really perfect.
Speaker 1: It was sunny. It was great.
Speaker 2: We watched the sun sort of set as we were
Speaker 2: ice skating. I really enjoyed that. So hopefully we will
Speaker 2: go back and have that as a seasonal fun. We
Speaker 2: are likely going to go ski as a family, not
Speaker 2: me because I don't ski, but I will tag along
Speaker 2: this time and provide some Henry's support. He's gone with
Speaker 2: Michael on a trip the past few years, and I
Speaker 2: know that's been kind of challenging because Michael likes to
Speaker 2: ski as well, so he's managing either having him like
Speaker 2: right next to him or else. He's in the ski daycare.
Speaker 2: So if I'm there, I can kind of supervise him
Speaker 2: on the bunny slope and we can put him in
Speaker 2: for a half day or something like that.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say he is ski school age, like
Speaker 3: that's true.
Speaker 1: He will be Yeah, he's gonna be five, so that'll work.
Speaker 1: That's true. Okay, never mind, Well I'll just sit in
Speaker 1: the lodge and enjoy my I don't know. Non dairy
Speaker 1: hot chocolate have to be something else. I don't know what.
Speaker 2: I'll be enjoying coffee, just coffee all day long, but
Speaker 2: maybe I'll go tubing or something on the same mountain.
Speaker 1: That would be fun. I've hoped to go to.
Speaker 2: Longwood Gardens again because they have elected to keep up
Speaker 2: their Christmas decorations until January twelfth. I think this is
Speaker 2: an excellent idea and everyone should consider doing this. I mean,
Speaker 2: if you've bothered to put your decorations up as a
Speaker 2: institution somewhere people can be festive into mid January, and
Speaker 2: I think they wanted an extra weekend of visitors and
Speaker 2: revenue from it. So that was great and that means
Speaker 2: we'll go again. I'm going to a Sixers game, so
Speaker 2: basketball is a winter sport.
Speaker 1: My husband and I have tickets to that for some night.
Speaker 2: I set a goal, as people know from the Goal episode,
Speaker 2: to go to three professional sports events in Philadelphia in
Speaker 2: the course of the year, so this will cross off
Speaker 2: the Sixers. If the Eagles make the playoffs and the
Speaker 2: games are here, we might consider trying to get tickets
Speaker 2: for that, and then we would have knocked two of
Speaker 2: the three off. In the first month, so that's exciting,
Speaker 2: but that, of course is hard to predict exactly what
Speaker 2: those games will be, or what the tickets will cost
Speaker 2: or anything like that.
Speaker 1: So that's a maybe.
Speaker 2: I am traveling to Boston to see Beethoven's eighth and ninth.
Speaker 2: This is not a winter specific thing, except that the
Speaker 2: Boston Symphony Orchestra is doing a series of Beethoven performances
Speaker 2: of all his symphonies over the course of January, so
Speaker 2: you know it's happening in winter. It's not winter specific fun.
Speaker 2: There's a few parties, including two of my children's birthday parties.
Speaker 2: I'll see Sarah in early March. You're right, that is
Speaker 2: still winter.
Speaker 3: Winter's over, but it's not.
Speaker 1: And then yeah, I'm.
Speaker 2: Tagging along to one of my husband's conferences which is
Speaker 2: also in mid March, which really technically is still winter here.
Speaker 1: So you know, lots of good stuff.
Speaker 2: So we're going to take a quick ad break and
Speaker 2: we'll be back with a tiny bit more on winter
Speaker 2: fun before getting into the meat of time tracking. Well,
Speaker 2: we are back first talking winter fun and then moving
Speaker 2: on to time tracking. So one thing I keep putting
Speaker 2: on my list but doesn't happen due to the life
Speaker 2: of constant snowcover sleigh riding.
Speaker 1: Now, Sarah, you have gone sleigh riding even though you
Speaker 1: are the Florida resident among us, so discuss this.
Speaker 3: Well, it was in Montana, not in Florida. I'd be like,
Speaker 3: on sand yeah, And actually they even said so we
Speaker 3: went in late March of twenty twenty four, and they
Speaker 3: were like, you guys are lucky because it's like about
Speaker 3: to not have enough snow to even do this in
Speaker 3: Montana because it was approaching April and spring does come
Speaker 3: and start to melt. You need like a solid amount
Speaker 3: of snow because there's like horses and yeah, you can't
Speaker 3: be having them dragon along dirt. But it was amazing.
Speaker 3: We did it for this like dinner, like if you
Speaker 3: shook the sleigh ride to the dinner. It was an
Speaker 3: absolute splurge and to the point where my kids are like,
Speaker 3: are we doing that again? And I'm like, no, it's
Speaker 3: not like in every trip to kind of situation. But
Speaker 3: I think someday we'll do it again, because they loved
Speaker 3: it and they still talk about it. So I do
Speaker 3: recommend you could probably find something in conjunction with a
Speaker 3: ski trip, although maybe not in the Poconos.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that in the Pocono I well, if we
Speaker 2: travel somewhere else though, just ski, then we could you know,
Speaker 2: do definitely presumably be a place we're choosing with more
Speaker 2: consistent snow cover.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the problem is here, So there's I found.
Speaker 2: A company that did it, like when I was first
Speaker 2: looking into this, but you have to call like when
Speaker 2: there's snow. It's like because they only open up then
Speaker 2: if there is you know, six inches of snow. So
Speaker 2: the idea, like you would have to have the space
Speaker 2: to do it, Like, it's just so many things don't
Speaker 2: work with like my family situation and schedule to just
Speaker 2: magically be able to fit in a sleigh ride should
Speaker 2: it happen to snow. So that's not happened yet, but yeah,
Speaker 2: maybe on a ski trip we will figure that out.
Speaker 2: Another thing with winter fun is just trying to figure
Speaker 2: out how to keep the festivities going. Like I mentioned
Speaker 2: the Longwood Gardens thing. You can certainly keep your own
Speaker 2: white lights up as long as you might wish. Obviously
Speaker 2: Santa decorations and red and green and colored lights might
Speaker 2: start to feel a little bit dated by mid January,
Speaker 2: but there's nothing inherently Christmasy about little white lights. I mean,
Speaker 2: we have these cafe lights up outside year round, so
Speaker 2: you could certainly keep some white lights up until February March.
Speaker 2: I don't know till the sun is up more frequently. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I'm going to be wearing a lot of winter white,
Speaker 2: how about you, Sarah.
Speaker 3: You know I don't have a lot of winter white,
Speaker 3: but now that you've said that, it's like a that's
Speaker 3: a new goal. I love. I love the idea of
Speaker 3: winter white, especially like pants. That's just so elegant, very elegant. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I have a white coat which I'm now looking at
Speaker 2: and thinking maybe I should take this white coat to
Speaker 2: the cleaners, because that is, of course the downside of
Speaker 2: the white coat. But it is fun to wear a
Speaker 2: white coat, so as long as it stays white, which
Speaker 2: is easier said than done some years. So another thing
Speaker 2: that is coming in January, which may be fun for
Speaker 2: some people, is my annual time tracking challenge. So longtime
Speaker 2: listeners know I've done this the past few years. Some
Speaker 2: years we've had thousands of people tracking along and during
Speaker 2: a week in January. This year, we are doing the
Speaker 2: week of January thirteenth through twentieth, So Monday, January thirteenth
Speaker 2: through the twentieth, we'll have lots of people doing it together.
Speaker 2: You know, you can sign up for that on my website. So, Sarah,
Speaker 2: have you ever done the time tracking challenge in January before?
Speaker 3: I've definitely done time tracking, like while we've been doing it,
Speaker 3: like with the Patreon or like aligned with you, and
Speaker 3: somehow I don't know if I like, I feel like
Speaker 3: I signed up for the emails. I don't know if
Speaker 3: I did it exactly when I was supposed to do it.
Speaker 3: But I have like completed the challenge of tracking all
Speaker 3: of my time for seven days, and I actually like
Speaker 3: to do it about every season. So I love this
Speaker 3: exercise and I love that you lead it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I first tracked my time for a week in
Speaker 2: like two thousand and nine. I was writing one hundred
Speaker 2: and sixteen hours, so obviously I needed to track my
Speaker 2: time if I was having other people doing it too.
Speaker 2: But I started tracking my time continuously in April of
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, which means that we are coming up on
Speaker 2: the ten year anniversary of that, which is kind of
Speaker 2: a long time to have done that with no real interruptions.
Speaker 2: That's the longest streak I've ever had. Well, I mean,
Speaker 2: I'll probably brush my teeth daily since twenty fifteen too,
Speaker 2: but streaks of that sort of nature.
Speaker 3: You know, it's a that's a lot of data.
Speaker 1: It is a lot of data, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2: Well it's not easily organized though, because at some point
Speaker 2: I gave up the idea of doing like the mutually exclusive,
Speaker 2: comprehensively exhaustive categories or putting it in to excel in
Speaker 2: a form where I was like actually tracking you know,
Speaker 2: what cells say, sleep, what sells they work, what sell
Speaker 2: say you know, so I would have to go in
Speaker 2: and do that now, like make it more coding friendly
Speaker 2: or something.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's more about memory keeping at this point.
Speaker 1: I'm not sitting there.
Speaker 2: When I track my time and post it publicly January
Speaker 2: thirteen through twenty, I will add up how much I
Speaker 2: sleep and how much I work and how much I
Speaker 2: do different things. But I don't tend to do that
Speaker 2: every week now. It's more just as a record of life,
Speaker 2: making sure things are looking more or less as I
Speaker 2: want them to do it. But I think everyone should
Speaker 2: try this at least once in their life. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, your time very well, Sarah, and I think
Speaker 2: you still found it somewhat useful totally.
Speaker 3: It's not even just like the data, it's like the
Speaker 3: act of doing it makes your aware of what you're
Speaker 3: doing when you're doing it, Like it can elucidate little
Speaker 3: things even with habits, like why certain things are a struggle.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I always learn something new, and I
Speaker 3: really do feel like I benefit from doing it every
Speaker 3: few months because as the seasons of life change, as
Speaker 3: our schedules change, it just feels kind of right to
Speaker 3: take stock again and figure out what's working and what's not.
Speaker 3: But yeah, learn little things every time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, little things.
Speaker 2: I mean just like, oh, yeah, this is what my
Speaker 2: mornings look like now, or oh it's possible that I
Speaker 2: could do this in the evenings now. I couldn't before,
Speaker 2: but you know, my life looks different now. Or you know,
Speaker 2: I used to think that Saturdays were just a lost
Speaker 2: day with kid activities, but maybe then your kids are
Speaker 2: older and they're getting themselves to things, and it opens
Speaker 2: up time again. Life changes and our time changes and
Speaker 2: should change and how we approach it. But you know,
Speaker 2: just to let make sure people know it's not about
Speaker 2: any sort of like gotcha thing. Like, you know, people
Speaker 2: are sometimes like, well, I don't really want to do it,
Speaker 2: because you know, I'm just gonna be like forced to
Speaker 2: confront how much Netflix I'm watching or forced to see
Speaker 2: that I'm on Instagram for two hours a day, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, if it brings you joy to be on
Speaker 2: Instagram two hours a day, I am one hundred percent
Speaker 2: in favor of that. Maybe it doesn't bring you joy,
Speaker 2: in which case it might be good to know, right,
Speaker 2: And then you can say, oh, well, you know, maybe
Speaker 2: there's some other website that's less, doesn't make me feel
Speaker 2: bad but would still be pretty eye candy. So let
Speaker 2: me go find this website that would be pretty eye
Speaker 2: candy but wouldn't make me feel terrible about my life
Speaker 2: in the course of looking at it. So it's always
Speaker 2: about looking for solutions and instead of just judging yourself
Speaker 2: or feeling some sort of shame about where your time goes,
Speaker 2: because everybody wastes time like I waste tons of time.
Speaker 2: I may try to waste less time during the week
Speaker 2: of January thirteen to twenty because I am posting it,
Speaker 2: but trust me, there is plenty of scrolling puttering around
Speaker 2: the house starting something and getting distracted, coming back to it,
Speaker 2: not remembering what I was doing, getting distracted again, and
Speaker 2: so on, hours disappearing.
Speaker 3: Maybe you should make a concerted effort not to waste
Speaker 3: less time.
Speaker 2: Not to wasteless so people can see it in all
Speaker 2: its glory. Yeah, yeah, but it's not that hard. So
Speaker 2: what you'll do is you'll download a spreadsheet from my
Speaker 2: website if you wish. You can also use a notebook,
Speaker 2: or you could use a time tracking app, whatever would be.
Speaker 1: I mean, you've used do you use a spreadsheet when
Speaker 1: you do it? Sarah? What have you usually done?
Speaker 3: I just use a notebook and I just I either
Speaker 3: just write everything like Hopunichi has a little timeline or
Speaker 3: my favorite notebook to use is Nostology because it has
Speaker 3: all twenty four hours in a column along the left,
Speaker 3: so it's very easy to just write, like what you're doing.
Speaker 3: But I I feel like most people probably prefer digital.
Speaker 1: Is that right? Well?
Speaker 2: I use the spreadsheet online and I'm not a very
Speaker 2: digital person, but that's just how I started doing it.
Speaker 2: I like to see what the week looks like all
Speaker 2: in one picture, true, which if you're tracking on a notebook,
Speaker 2: sometimes it's harder to get that all in one grid,
Speaker 2: and because you could also sort of see like the
Speaker 2: space in the morning before you wake up the space
Speaker 2: and you kind of get a sense of where it is.
Speaker 2: I love the first time I did this on a
Speaker 2: spreadsheet that is Monday through Sunday, and I saw that
Speaker 2: Thursday was the middle of the week, and it's like,
Speaker 2: you know, that insight in and of itself was just
Speaker 2: eye opening that if my timelog starts Monday at five
Speaker 2: am and goes to the next Monday at four thirty am,
Speaker 2: the middle of the week is five pm Thursday. Oh.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 3: Every single time I'm on call and I look at
Speaker 3: my watch and it's like the end of day Thursday.
Speaker 1: I like curse you a little.
Speaker 2: Bit because they're like, sorry, Sarah, you are only halfway through.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: Not I'm only halfway through this.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I know it.
Speaker 2: I can't pretend like other people can, like, oh well,
Speaker 2: Thursday is like the end of the week.
Speaker 3: To be fair, the weekend's easier, so it's a little
Speaker 3: bit downhill from there. But no, I think of you
Speaker 3: every single time. I can't help it. I'm gonna vow
Speaker 3: right now that I'm going to try this digitally this year, Like,
Speaker 3: I may write it down, but I want to see
Speaker 3: it all laid out in a grid, like yeah, I
Speaker 3: want to see what it looks like well.
Speaker 2: And obviously if you are trying to add up categories,
Speaker 2: it's a lot harder to do that if it's written
Speaker 2: down in a notebook. You know, if you have it
Speaker 2: on regular Excel, you could just total up the number
Speaker 2: of cells that said something like sleep, and that would
Speaker 2: be a fairly simple thing to do. Or even if
Speaker 2: you're just adding it up by visually looking at it,
Speaker 2: it's easier when it's all in one grid and you
Speaker 2: can see it like that, but no requirement to add
Speaker 2: things up.
Speaker 1: It's just if you want to.
Speaker 2: I don't do anything fancy art wise with it. We've
Speaker 2: had some people put in photos if they want to
Speaker 2: use it as a memory keeping kind of thing, or
Speaker 2: do some expanded thing where they put like just you know,
Speaker 2: visited with cousin in the cell itself, but then put
Speaker 2: some way that you can link that to a longer
Speaker 2: entry where they talk more about, you know, what they
Speaker 2: did with their cousin.
Speaker 1: And that would be a fun way to do this too.
Speaker 2: If you are focused more on the memory keeping aspect
Speaker 2: of it.
Speaker 3: Totally pasting pictures looks cool too, Yeah, imagine. Well let's
Speaker 3: take a quick break and then I'm interested in what
Speaker 3: you tend to find people discover.
Speaker 1: All right, let's do it.
Speaker 3: All right, we are back. You have looked at many,
Speaker 3: many time logs over the years, so I'm curious what
Speaker 3: do you tend What are like.
Speaker 2: The most common findings, Well, one very common one from
Speaker 2: a past. Especially people who listen to this podcast might
Speaker 2: be interested to hear. A lot of women who have
Speaker 2: big jobs have been telling themselves the story or have
Speaker 2: heard the story from various people over the years, that
Speaker 2: they are just not spending enough time with their kids,
Speaker 2: right like, oh, you know, I'm working all the time.
Speaker 1: I don't see my kids all that much. It's really
Speaker 1: too bad. I do what I can.
Speaker 2: I've had people track their time and say, well, I
Speaker 2: used to feel guilt. I don't feel guilt anymore. We
Speaker 2: are talking people in very, very demanding jobs still spending
Speaker 2: thirty forty hours a week with their children. Because it
Speaker 2: turns out that even if you work a lot, you
Speaker 2: also don't work many of the hours of the week.
Speaker 2: There are one hundred and sixty eight hours in the week.
Speaker 2: So if you are sleeping fifty six of them and
Speaker 2: sleep and working fifty of them, you have sixty two
Speaker 2: hours that are spent on other things.
Speaker 1: And if you have.
Speaker 2: Small children, a lot of those hours are going to
Speaker 2: be with those small children. And you know, even if
Speaker 2: they're not so small, like you're still in the same house, like,
Speaker 2: you wind up spending a ton of time with the
Speaker 2: people who are in your household, just by virtue of proximity.
Speaker 1: So a lot of times people.
Speaker 2: Don't necessarily think that in their lives, but then when
Speaker 2: they track their time and they see the volume of
Speaker 2: time spent with family members, it just gives you a
Speaker 2: very different picture of what life truly looks like. You know,
Speaker 2: if people say, like, wow, you know, I know I'm
Speaker 2: a full time lawyer, I didn't know I was actually
Speaker 2: a full time parent too, but it's very possible.
Speaker 3: That you are. Wow. Well, that's probably makes people feel
Speaker 3: good and reassuring. I like it. Yeah, anything else.
Speaker 2: Well, one of the reasons people are around their kids
Speaker 2: so much is that they work less than they think
Speaker 2: this is. I mean, it's human nature to sort of
Speaker 2: overestimate things we may not always want to do. And
Speaker 2: I'm sure people like their jobs, but there are parts
Speaker 2: that are tedious, and so it's very easy to see
Speaker 2: our longest weeks as typical. So it's not so much
Speaker 2: that you know, people are saying, oh, I work eighty
Speaker 2: hours a week and they've like never worked an eighty
Speaker 2: hour week. What it is is that they've worked an
Speaker 2: eighty hour week like four times over the course of
Speaker 2: the year, and those four times are just like burned
Speaker 2: into their brain because they were so terrible, and so
Speaker 2: they're like, oh, that's what my life looks like, but
Speaker 2: it probably isn't. Like there are probably a lot of
Speaker 2: weeks that are way less intense. So if you choose
Speaker 2: to track an eighty hour week, that's fine. But my
Speaker 2: guess is just through the nature of the luck of
Speaker 2: the draw, January thirteen to twenty may not be that week. Like,
Speaker 2: if it only happens four times a year, it's probably
Speaker 2: not going to be that week, and so you might
Speaker 2: get a different picture of how many hours you are working.
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's because we have a picture of a typical
Speaker 2: week that involves us being at work five days a week,
Speaker 2: But there are many reasons people aren't at work five
Speaker 2: days a week. Sometimes it's holidays or paid time off.
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's that you had something personal during one of
Speaker 2: the days, or day got taken away from you for
Speaker 2: some other reason, like you're working at home and you
Speaker 2: have the flu, Yes, you have the flu, or like
Speaker 2: there's a huge leak in your basement you have to
Speaker 2: deal with there, right, I mean, these are things that happen,
Speaker 2: and you know you might make up some of the
Speaker 2: work at some point, but you may not make it
Speaker 2: up hour for hour, right, and so you wind up
Speaker 2: with fewer hours than you would have thought. The good news,
Speaker 2: people often do sleep a little bit more than they
Speaker 2: think they do. We have a tendency to again view
Speaker 2: our works nights as typical, and so if you had
Speaker 2: a really bad night, like Sunday night, you were up
Speaker 2: late because you were sleeping in late Sunday morning because
Speaker 2: you can't fall asleep Sunday night, and then you have
Speaker 2: to be up at the crack of dawn on Monday,
Speaker 2: like that is what you see as your typical night,
Speaker 2: as opposed to maybe, like Thursday, you actually crash on
Speaker 2: the couch at nine thirty and sleep till like seven
Speaker 2: thirty in the morning. Well, you're not viewing ten hour
Speaker 2: you know, no one would be like, well, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I sleep ten.
Speaker 1: Hours a night, but you did, like you did.
Speaker 2: It happened once the six hour night, also happened once
Speaker 2: in the ten hour night, but maybe it averages out
Speaker 2: to more like seven to eight, which is where the
Speaker 2: vast majority of adults land.
Speaker 3: This is totally in aside. But when I do this,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna then see if my phone sleep record is accurate,
Speaker 3: because I never really know. I don't find enough attention,
Speaker 3: but I think this will help me.
Speaker 2: Well, this is an interesting thing that has come up
Speaker 2: with now that there are so many sleep trackers that
Speaker 2: people are wearables that people have, and the variance between
Speaker 2: that and recorded sleep, Like if you were tracking it
Speaker 2: on a log, if I was up in the middle
Speaker 2: of the night, I would record that. If it took
Speaker 2: me more than ten minutes to fall asleep, I would
Speaker 2: probably record that on my log too, because I would
Speaker 2: have remembered that I was lying awake in my bed
Speaker 2: for a while.
Speaker 1: I don't know if.
Speaker 2: Everyone does that when they're recording how much they sleep,
Speaker 2: but I think you could, and then I think they
Speaker 2: would be fairly similar. Now, obviously there's some like where
Speaker 2: we go into very light stages of sleep. I mean,
Speaker 2: would you be recording that as sort of wakefulness? I
Speaker 2: don't know how those apps are always recording them. I mean,
Speaker 2: if you're just tossing and turning, I'm not sure that
Speaker 2: I would record that as being awake.
Speaker 1: So I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's yeah, I don't wear my watch to bed or
Speaker 3: anything like that, and so it's just relying on my phone,
Speaker 3: and my phone just happens to be like sitting, like
Speaker 3: or if I'm reading in bed, how does my phone
Speaker 3: no phone?
Speaker 1: Your phone? I'll think? I mean, is it tracking your pulls?
Speaker 1: So I knows?
Speaker 3: I mean it might be, but like I don't know,
Speaker 3: we'll see, I'll let you know, all right.
Speaker 2: So well, but people might want to do that as
Speaker 2: an experiment too, like how does it differ if you
Speaker 2: have one of those aura rings or something between that
Speaker 2: and your time track?
Speaker 1: Or I'd love to love to hear.
Speaker 2: I think there's also a lot of people realize that
Speaker 2: sometime it's hard to account for or categorize. We all
Speaker 2: have this sort of nebulous downtime in our lives, and
Speaker 2: the good news is that you can either acknowledge it,
Speaker 2: like oh, yes, this is downtime, Like this is time
Speaker 2: I don't have to do anything else. I could just
Speaker 2: chill if I want, Or you could say, well, I
Speaker 2: don't have to keep getting up and moving something from
Speaker 2: the kitchen counter one item at a time and then
Speaker 2: getting distracted like half hearted housework that isn't really accomplishing anything.
Speaker 2: You could repurpose this for something more fun. Say I, actually,
Speaker 2: I do have nothing on the schedule this afternoon. For
Speaker 2: a Saturday afternoon, I could trade off with my partner
Speaker 2: and go to gym for an hour, like we're not
Speaker 2: doing anything. That would be fine. So people can repurpose
Speaker 2: some of that, And.
Speaker 3: I can imagine there's a good amount of time that's
Speaker 3: just like transitions like getting out the door and then
Speaker 3: also driving.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, driving definitely takes a reasonable amount of time.
Speaker 2: That was something I was surprised by when I first
Speaker 2: started doing this, because I don't commute to an office,
Speaker 2: so in my mind I can't be driving that much.
Speaker 2: But I can tell you I am, in fact driving
Speaker 2: a fair amount. Between driving all my kids around, driving
Speaker 2: myself places, it adds up.
Speaker 1: It definitely definitely adds up.
Speaker 2: So you'll come up with lots of different insights into
Speaker 2: your life.
Speaker 1: You know, you can then ask.
Speaker 2: Yourself what you like about your schedule, what you want
Speaker 2: to change, what you want to spend more time doing,
Speaker 2: what you want to spend less time doing, figuring out
Speaker 2: some strategies for switching it up we're necessary, or maybe
Speaker 2: just leaning into the things that are wonderful about your life.
Speaker 2: And there's many great outcomes from tracking your time, so
Speaker 2: I encourage everyone to do it. If you are listening
Speaker 2: to this, you should go to my website, Laura vandercam
Speaker 2: dot com. By the time this airs, there will be
Speaker 2: a big box on the front of it that says
Speaker 2: sign up for the time tracking Challenge, and you could
Speaker 2: just do that. But if for some reason you're listening
Speaker 2: to this at an entirely different time, just check my blog.
Speaker 1: I will have posted the links several times.
Speaker 2: If you get my newsletters, they will have been in
Speaker 2: there lots of ways you will be able to sign up.
Speaker 2: Strongly encourage people to do it because you get daily
Speaker 2: motivational emails from me.
Speaker 3: I'm excited.
Speaker 2: Yay, it'll be fun. It'll be fun, all right. So
Speaker 2: this week's question a timely one. Our listener writes, really
Speaker 2: do I need to start planning for summer camp. Now,
Speaker 2: what if I am exhausted from the holidays, Like, are
Speaker 2: they looking for I don't know, Sarah.
Speaker 1: Maybe this person is looking for permission to not do it.
Speaker 1: I don't know. What do you think?
Speaker 3: I mean, that's what I'm seeing. Well, I mean I
Speaker 3: can give you my answer, which is that it certainly
Speaker 3: depends on your area. If you will live worse somewhere
Speaker 3: that everything gets snapped up, then like kind of yeah,
Speaker 3: unless you want to just be okay with having fewer choices,
Speaker 3: because there's gonna be something open later on, but it
Speaker 3: may not be what your kids want. And I know
Speaker 3: that my kids, well they're going to that Monday through
Speaker 3: Friday sleep away camp again. That's three weeks. And one
Speaker 3: of them was like, I want this specific like you
Speaker 3: know they have different like specialties because my friends are
Speaker 3: in it, and like if you don't put me in
Speaker 3: that one, it's gonna sell out and I won't be
Speaker 3: with my friends and it won't be me fun. So
Speaker 3: you can bet. Like I was December fifth or whatever
Speaker 3: the day that it was, it was open. Okay, done,
Speaker 3: signed up, check, We're done. Like you know, it's one
Speaker 3: less thing to worry about later. A lot of the
Speaker 3: camps don't require all the payment in advance. If that's,
Speaker 3: you know, a concern, you can like spread that part out.
Speaker 3: But I kind of think that you're gonna have to
Speaker 3: do eventually, and it is easier to do when there's
Speaker 3: lots of options open versus when you're now like playing
Speaker 3: patchwork with what's actually available. And when do I want
Speaker 3: my kids? I guess with the only risk that like
Speaker 3: in case you have kids that changed their mind a lot.
Speaker 2: Well, but even with that, if you are willing to
Speaker 2: lose a tiny bit of money, like I said, some
Speaker 2: of the camps will allow you to just put a
Speaker 2: fifty or one hundred dollars deposit down, and you know,
Speaker 2: if your kid is prone to changing their mind, you
Speaker 2: might just decide, well, you know, so I have the coverage,
Speaker 2: I'm going to put that in. I might lose my
Speaker 2: fifty dollars, but that wouldn't be the end of the
Speaker 2: world in order to have that guarantee. So that is
Speaker 2: a mindset that one can take on that I signed
Speaker 2: Henry up for a particular day camp during a week
Speaker 2: that I know we don't have other childcare coverage, and
Speaker 2: he was whining that he didn't want to do it,
Speaker 2: but he was whining about everything that morning, so I
Speaker 2: have no idea if he wants to do it or not.
Speaker 2: He probably will think something entirely different by July. So
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm just going to put in the deposit
Speaker 2: and have it because I know this is a camp
Speaker 2: that does sell out, and I didn't have to fill
Speaker 2: out any of the forms, and because kids have gone
Speaker 2: to this camp or done programs to this organization in
Speaker 2: the past, they actually had all my information anyway. So
Speaker 2: this is one of the brilliant ones where I just
Speaker 2: could use the platform and it was like already recognized
Speaker 2: me and had my phone number and had like our
Speaker 2: backup contacts names and phone numbers.
Speaker 1: So I was like, whoo, well, all I had to
Speaker 1: do is like basically say take my fifty dollars.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, so we're sorry, we think you should consider
Speaker 3: getting on that.
Speaker 2: But again, if you're in a place where there is
Speaker 2: stuff available in April or May, then.
Speaker 1: Fine, then fine.
Speaker 2: You know you then don't have to or you could
Speaker 2: decide that most of the time this summer you're going
Speaker 2: to if this is an option for you, have like
Speaker 2: a summer babysitter. Like if you think you'd be able
Speaker 2: to hire a summer nanny for twelve weeks or something,
Speaker 2: somebody who's maybe home from college and looking for a job,
Speaker 2: then no, you don't have to worry about it too much.
Speaker 2: I mean, mostly that person would do stuff, and then
Speaker 2: you could sign up for like half day camps here
Speaker 2: and there that was something related to your kid's interest.
Speaker 2: But if you didn't have it on any given day,
Speaker 2: it wouldn't be the end of the world. It's more
Speaker 2: how much are you going to absolutely need coverage? And
Speaker 2: if you absolutely need coverage, then you, as the parent
Speaker 2: of school age children, you need to recognize that school
Speaker 2: is not childcare. So this is just about figuring out
Speaker 2: your childcare same as you would like you did when
Speaker 2: your kid was one. Yes, for better or for worse,
Speaker 2: For better or for worse. Yeah, no, Well I'm sorry
Speaker 2: because I know I'm annoyed about it too. Like I
Speaker 2: don't want to do my summer spreadsheet, but that is
Speaker 2: on the list for the month.
Speaker 3: Yeah I don't either. It doesn't feel I'm more doing them,
Speaker 3: like as the upper you may have just taken. Like
Speaker 3: if you're on enough lists, you can have the attitude
Speaker 3: of like, as the opportunities arrive, I can take them
Speaker 3: one by one rather than I'm going to figure out
Speaker 3: the entire summer right now, because even I I'm not
Speaker 3: in the mood to do that.
Speaker 2: No, no, And I'm definitely not planning my older children's summers.
Speaker 2: That's like absolutely not. They're on it theirselves. Like can
Speaker 2: apply for a job if you want to go to
Speaker 2: camp some nerd, that's great, but you're the one figuring
Speaker 2: that out, not me.
Speaker 1: That that makes sense. I put in my time.
Speaker 2: For all of you, all right. So, Sarah, love of
Speaker 2: the week. What do you have this week?
Speaker 3: I have a clean car, so yay. This doesn't happen
Speaker 3: very often, but we try to do it once a
Speaker 3: year and Josh actually took both cars. He took charge,
Speaker 3: did one after the other, and it is just, oh
Speaker 3: my gosh, like it's amazing, Like the seats are clean,
Speaker 3: the outside is clean. I should probably maybe think about
Speaker 3: upgrading to two times next year because of how happy
Speaker 3: it makes me. But yeah, clean cars.
Speaker 1: Clean cars, excellent, excellent.
Speaker 2: Well, my love of the week is hot hands, those
Speaker 2: little things you put in your pocket and keep you hot.
Speaker 2: I've mentioned this before, but you know, it's really nice
Speaker 2: to have a portable heat source if you are out
Speaker 2: and about with winter. So if you're looking to make
Speaker 2: winter a little more fun, not being freezing is one
Speaker 2: way to do that. All right, Well, this has been
Speaker 2: of both worlds. We've been talking winter fun and then
Speaker 2: the time tracking challenge.
Speaker 1: Go sign up for that. We will be back next
Speaker 1: week with more on making work and life fit together.
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the
Speaker 3: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,
Speaker 3: and you.
Speaker 4: Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This
Speaker 4: has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join
Speaker 4: us next time for more on making work and life
Speaker 4: work together.