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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight. It is Sunday in June

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Speaker 2: twenty second, and we are here talking true crime all

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Speaker 2: the time. Listen. I know it feels like the world

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Speaker 2: has gone crazy, but we are settling in. Pull up

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Speaker 2: your proverbial chair. We are just hunkering down right now

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Speaker 2: and having a big conversation about all the things that

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Speaker 2: we can control, which is a conversation about forensics. We're

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Speaker 2: going to do a very big deep dive tonight. We

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Speaker 2: have a stacked night. We're going to be talking about Lisk,

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Speaker 2: the Long Island serial killer, and all of the scary

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Speaker 2: forensics that go with that, as well as the Idaho

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Speaker 2: College murders. Again, the forensics are a big piece of

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Speaker 2: this case, so we're going to unpack that further and

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Speaker 2: also the latest developments in the HS been in Colorado

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Speaker 2: after years, he's officially been arrested and charged with his

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Speaker 2: wife's murder. So so much to get to. I'm Stephanie

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Speaker 2: Leidecker and I head of Kat Studios where we make

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Speaker 2: true crime podcasts and documentaries, and I get to do

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Speaker 2: that with Courtney Armstrong, crime producer and host and crime

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Speaker 2: analyst and host Body Move In. And tonight we are

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Speaker 2: doing an extra extra special thing because we have our

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Speaker 2: very own forensics expert, Joseph Scott Morgan here with us tonight.

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Speaker 2: He was here with us last Sunday, and now he's

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Speaker 2: back for the second Sunday, which means there is nothing

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Speaker 2: but trouble ahead and he's going to really do a

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Speaker 2: deep dive with us. If you don't know Joseph's work,

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Speaker 2: you for sure will recognize his face. He's been on

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Speaker 2: every news show you could possibly imagine. I think he's

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Speaker 2: done over two hundred and fifty appearances this year alone

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Speaker 2: on the news every major outlet. Also, he's appeared on

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Speaker 2: all of our documentaries Murdered and Missing in Montana, the

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Speaker 2: Pie County Murders. He'll also be a big contributor in

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Speaker 2: the Idaho College Murders that is coming out soon, also

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Speaker 2: to be seen on Peacock. And he's also been in

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Speaker 2: all of our podcasts, The Piked and Massacre, The Idaho Massacre.

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Speaker 2: He's also the host of Body Bags a podcast we

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Speaker 2: don't make, but we wish we did. We're about to

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Speaker 2: dig in to all things forensics. So Joseph, after the

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Speaker 2: longest introduction ever, we're so happy you're here and can't

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Speaker 2: wait to dig in further.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm good to be with you, guys. I'm exhausted

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Speaker 3: after all of that. Veron is a.

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Speaker 2: Lot, right, So just what is at the stage? Setting

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Speaker 2: the stage? And I know we're going to do a

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Speaker 2: deep dive into the Long Island serial killer and the

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Speaker 2: forensics there are really important because again, this is a case.

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Speaker 2: I'm from Long Island originally, this is a case. It's

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Speaker 2: very close to my heart and we've all been following

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Speaker 2: it so closely. And really you're the guy and body

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Speaker 2: if you wouldn't mind just like filling us in a

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Speaker 2: little bit, give us the backstory.

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Speaker 4: Just a very quick trigger warning. We're about to discuss

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Speaker 4: some very very disturbing specifics in this case, some violent

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Speaker 4: in of a sexual nature. So listener discretion is strongly advised,

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Speaker 4: very quick. I mean, this is very horrific stuff. So

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Speaker 4: a Microsoft word document with eighty seven disturbing details has

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Speaker 4: come to light, and you know it's shedding a lot

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Speaker 4: more insight into LISK and everything that he did. He

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Speaker 4: was very organized. He had plans for how to murder,

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Speaker 4: including like supplies such as like cat litter and tarps,

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Speaker 4: dump sites, location recon reports, what to do with specific

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Speaker 4: body parts, and prep. Rex Huerman is our suspect. He's

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Speaker 4: going to be turning sixty years old next month. He

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Speaker 4: was arrested on July thirteenth of twenty twenty three on

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Speaker 4: suspicion of being the Long Island serial Killer. And you'll

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Speaker 4: we refer to that as LISC LSK because Long Island

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Speaker 4: Serial Killer is kind of hard to say. So LISK

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Speaker 4: case involved eleven bodies found in the Gilgo Beach area

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Speaker 4: from nineteen ninety three to twenty eleven. Rex has been

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Speaker 4: linked to seven of those murders forensically and alleged to

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Speaker 4: be involved with two others. He's not yet linked to

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Speaker 4: the remaining two murders. So there's a lot of bodies,

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Speaker 4: there's a lot of victims, and this list, this.

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Speaker 2: List, that list, just to add to that. You know,

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Speaker 2: we've had guests on before who have said, listen, there's

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Speaker 2: this core group that you know he's been associated with,

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Speaker 2: but it could be many many many anymore, And just

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Speaker 2: to give a little context to this particular place, this

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Speaker 2: isn't a really beautiful place on Long Island. Again I'm partial,

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Speaker 2: I'm from there, but it's about an hour outside of

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Speaker 2: New York City and it's suburbia. But it's also on

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Speaker 2: a bay obviously, it's called you know, Oyster Bay Massapequa.

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Speaker 2: This is a really lovely, peaceful, special place that you know,

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Speaker 2: everybody knows their neighbors. People are kind and considerate. It's

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Speaker 2: so close to New York City, but at the same

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Speaker 2: time it's a small town. So for something this wild

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Speaker 2: to have occurred is pretty unimaginable. And I can say

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Speaker 2: for myself grow up and even my older brothers, this

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Speaker 2: is something that wrecked Long Island for many, many, many

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Speaker 2: many years. It was unsolved. It really went unnoticed. On

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Speaker 2: top of that, and we can get into that later.

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Speaker 2: But honestly, this was a very surprise ending. This particular

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Speaker 2: architect from New York City Rex Humor in the accused,

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Speaker 2: he claims his innocence. He's a married man, has two kids,

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Speaker 2: and was commuting into New York City on the train

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Speaker 2: every day. The way we all did, myself included with

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Speaker 2: his daughter to his fancy architect job. So for him

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Speaker 2: to be the guy that's been you know, said to

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Speaker 2: be the Long Island serial killer, it's really unexpected. So

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Speaker 2: just a stage setter.

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Speaker 4: No, that's really good background in for it to have.

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Speaker 4: So this hard drive recovered from Hureman's basement has this

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Speaker 4: word document and the document is called HK two thousand

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Speaker 4: and two DASH four. Don't really know what that means yet.

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Speaker 4: Some people are speculating that it means highway killer, but

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Speaker 4: again that's literally speculation. Nobody knows what it means. It

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Speaker 4: appears to be like a planning document, like a checklist

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Speaker 4: of sorts, right, and there's like columns and like little

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Speaker 4: line items, and it looks like they're connected to everything

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Speaker 4: that you have to do in order to be successful

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Speaker 4: at hiding you know, this crime, planning this crime and whatnot.

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Speaker 4: And it's hard to go into all the details because

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Speaker 4: it's so gruesome. But just as an example, I'm just

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Speaker 4: going to do a very quick example problems. There's a

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Speaker 4: heading is called problems. The problems are fingerprints, witnesses, shoe prints,

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Speaker 4: police stops, hair and fiber. So he's recognizing things that

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Speaker 4: can happen, right, like issues that you might run into.

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Speaker 4: Another column is called supplies, and here's some supplies booties,

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Speaker 4: lie and acid, a police scanner, hairnets, a burn can,

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Speaker 4: medical gloves, argo strap. And then there's one that is

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Speaker 4: called pre prep, get a vehicle inspection, check the weather.

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Speaker 4: I mean, he's wait system list of as soon to

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Speaker 4: be serial killer who is putting into plan, the greatest

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Speaker 4: list in his mind, the sickest list in hours in

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Speaker 4: history of just how to stay organized when deciding to

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Speaker 4: murder again and again.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, it's alleged that this man again

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Speaker 2: he says, he's you know, innocent, so we are not

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Speaker 2: claiming guilt, but he may have been. If what we

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Speaker 2: are hearing is accurate and true. Allegedly, he will have

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Speaker 2: been killing before he got married. So this is something

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Speaker 2: that would potentially have been going on for years and

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Speaker 2: years and years, and you know, remains technically unsolved.

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Speaker 5: So, Joseph, two questions for you just getting into this list. One,

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Speaker 5: what if any items particularly stick out to you? And

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Speaker 5: two would you say that this potentially categorizes Humorman who

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Speaker 5: is alleged but as an organized killer versus a disorganized killer.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's say the first one for me, this seems

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Speaker 3: very passive. Okay, but if you go to the list

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Speaker 3: that he is alleged to have created in this word

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Speaker 3: document that that body had referenced, there's the header themes

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Speaker 3: to remember. And for me, one of the things that

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Speaker 3: really kind of pops on here is get sleep before

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Speaker 3: hunt too tired, and he misspells creates, He spells at

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Speaker 3: C R E A T S problems and then he

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Speaker 3: references sleep again where he talks about more sleep, and

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Speaker 3: interestingly enough, noise control equals are you ready for this

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Speaker 3: more playtime? And I use the term.

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Speaker 2: With a victim.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah, either that or he's referencing how

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Speaker 3: he will be prepared for more playtime. I don't know, really,

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Speaker 3: you know how you kind of suss that out? And

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Speaker 3: that's to me. You're in this real granular area, you know,

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Speaker 3: when you begin to think about these things. Interestingly enough,

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Speaker 3: I'll kind of add this on as a side. You know,

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Speaker 3: he he had read, like many of us did. He

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Speaker 3: had read Douglas's book. I think that came out back

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Speaker 3: in ninety six, the mind Hunter book, which of course

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Speaker 3: the Netflix series is loosely based upon, and in there

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Speaker 3: John kind of details out, you know, these killers and

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Speaker 3: the genesis of the behavioral science unit. But in there

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Speaker 3: he talks about organized versus disorganized, and organized versus disorganized

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Speaker 3: is not something that you can look at with killers

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Speaker 3: and say this is absolutely an organized person. This is

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Speaker 3: a disorganized because there's shades of gray in here. If

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Speaker 3: you're asking me, if if I were just to look

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Speaker 3: at the list alone, I would say that this is

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Speaker 3: a mind that is solely focused on the task at

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Speaker 3: hand from a forensic standpoint, because he even goes so

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Speaker 3: far as to talk about removal of marks of torture,

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Speaker 3: which if you've got bindings, for instance, and you're going

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Speaker 3: to have kind of some people refer to it as

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Speaker 3: a rub rash, but it's actually an abrasion that goes

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Speaker 3: around the risk from restraint, you have to get rid

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Speaker 3: of that. Well, how do you get rid of that? Well,

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Speaker 3: you go back to the burn can and you talk

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Speaker 3: about he well allegedly talks about the disposal of remains,

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Speaker 3: and here as well, he even goes down And this

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Speaker 3: is quite interesting because I talk about this all the

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Speaker 3: time when I'm talking about forensic autopsis and sexual assault cases.

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Speaker 3: He actually talks about two big pieces here clipping of

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Speaker 3: the nails or getting rid of evidence that might be

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Speaker 3: beneath the nails, if you're talking about some might offend

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Speaker 3: in themselves. And then in addition to that, this is

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Speaker 3: hard to say, he talks about cleaning orifices.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the entire all cavities.

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Speaker 3: Right, yeah, yeah, and that's a flushing that goes on.

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Speaker 3: And why would he do that, Well, he's trying to

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Speaker 3: get rid of any kind of seminal deposition that might

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Speaker 3: be there if he completes sexual act within the victim,

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Speaker 3: and also anything that goes on with any kind of

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Speaker 3: blood deposition on his part.

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Speaker 5: We will be back with many more investigative information bites

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Speaker 5: for you.

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Speaker 6: Joseph Scott Morgan will be here.

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Speaker 5: Hopefully you will as well if you give us a

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Speaker 5: call eight at eight three to one crime and we

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Speaker 5: have other cases to follow. Keep it here on True

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Speaker 5: Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: We have forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and he is

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Speaker 2: you know, Kat Family. You can catch him on all

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Speaker 2: of our podcasts and all of our documentaries quite literally,

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Speaker 2: also the host of Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan.

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Speaker 2: You've had us a little slightly edge of our seats.

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Speaker 2: I literally lost what I was talking about because I

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Speaker 2: was listening to closely to the last track. Killer list. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: there's a list. So just to fill everybody in about

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Speaker 2: what we're talking about. Rex Hureorman is the accused Long

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Speaker 2: Island serial killer. He's currently behind bars awaiting trial. He's been,

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Speaker 2: you know, associated with seven of the eleven women who

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Speaker 2: have lost their lives tragically over the last you know,

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Speaker 2: decades on Long Island. And he was a married man.

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Speaker 2: He's divorced now, but his wife and his two children

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Speaker 2: loved him deeply and honestly, his arrest was a very

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Speaker 2: big deal because he was an architect from New York City.

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Speaker 2: A very unexpected ending here. So it turns out we're

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Speaker 2: learning that this alleged killer had a kill list basically

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Speaker 2: the types of things that you would put on your

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Speaker 2: laundry list or your grocery list, or your task list

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Speaker 2: for your errands on the weekend. This guy, the accused, allegedly, allegedly,

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Speaker 2: allegedly Rex Humor Man, had a really organized list about,

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Speaker 2: you know, how to murder people and to do it

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Speaker 2: efficiently and to get the most play out of it.

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Speaker 2: So again trigger alert, But Joseph, back to this list.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, back to this list. So I'm gonna jump in, Joseph,

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Speaker 4: I'm going to read some more from this list. So

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Speaker 4: some of the some of the bodies. So, Joseph, this

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Speaker 4: is why I'm so excited to talk to you. As

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Speaker 4: this body prep. So in this list, this a list

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Speaker 4: that's allegedly from Rex's computer. There's a column called body

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Speaker 4: prep and on there it says remove trace evidence, fingerprints, hair.

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Speaker 4: You know you would mention that, remove trace, DNA, remove

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Speaker 4: id mars ie, tattoos and marx.

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Speaker 2: How do you remove them? What does that even mean?

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Speaker 4: How do you think you had, like, say you had

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Speaker 4: a tattoo on your shoulder, you sure you would remove

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Speaker 4: the skin and that's where the burn can comes in.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, So if I'm sorry, go ahead.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, please, yeah.

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Speaker 3: If you're and this is a thought that I had

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Speaker 3: on this. If one were to remove a tattoo, that

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Speaker 3: would be a very specific dissection. We we've actually had

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Speaker 3: to do this in the more before to preserve things,

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Speaker 3: and there's a certain way that you treat that sample,

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Speaker 3: but not not for an individual that's trying to do

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Speaker 3: a removal of an identifying mark, and you would need

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Speaker 3: an instrument that would facilitate this a straight edge, you

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Speaker 3: would probably need pickups, which are for our fancy term

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Speaker 3: for for force ups, surgical scissors, and of course scalpel

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Speaker 3: unless you're going to be very very crude about it.

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Speaker 3: What's really interesting is that he's talking. And this goes

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Speaker 3: to a bigger point I think in this list is

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Speaker 3: mentioned lie and acid as well, which if you're going

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Speaker 3: to facilitate destruction of tissue like the soft tissue, you

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Speaker 3: can render it down. It springs me to another point

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Speaker 3: because if this individual or the individual that has been

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Speaker 3: committing these acts that there are other people that could

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Speaker 3: potentially victims that could be on his radar. The ones

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Speaker 3: that have been found are dumb luck because if he

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Speaker 3: took the time, or the individual that did these took

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Speaker 3: the time to hunt, and he makes reference to hunting.

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Speaker 3: If I stay in the area too long, I'll draw

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Speaker 3: attention hunting. That's a reference on the list. Then, if

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Speaker 3: he's taken out other people and he has the means

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Speaker 3: and the guts, the intestinal fortitude to do it, are

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Speaker 3: there other bodies that were completely rendered down and that

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Speaker 3: is possible to do it, you need time to do

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Speaker 3: it and dispose of them. And the first step on

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Speaker 3: this because of the vastness of the water, the water surface.

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Speaker 3: You've got the Atlantic Ocean on one side and then

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Speaker 3: you've got this marshy area on the other side. There's

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Speaker 3: things out there that will do the trick for you.

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Speaker 3: Just the crab population alone in that area will do

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Speaker 3: the job for you. I know that because I'm from

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Speaker 3: Louisiana and the job that they do on bodies and

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Speaker 3: this is really gruesome stuff, but it's the reality of

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Speaker 3: what you're seeing kind of born out here potentially.

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Speaker 6: So two questions.

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Speaker 5: One is ten crabs actually decompose or get rid of

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Speaker 5: an entire body.

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Speaker 3: They ingest the body. Yeah, yeah, any crustacean like that. Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 3: in South Louisiana, for instance, crawfish are one of the biggest,

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Speaker 3: and then blue crabs down there up north you have crab,

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Speaker 3: you have lobster. So yeah, any numbers.

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Speaker 4: So there's more things on this list. You guys like

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Speaker 4: this list. I mean, we could do a whole show

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Speaker 4: on just this list.

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Speaker 2: Because just so one last thing to throw in, just

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Speaker 2: in case you're not completely familiar with this case. We're

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Speaker 2: talking about the Long Island serial killer accused of killing

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Speaker 2: seven women, and there's potentially much many more to come.

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Speaker 2: But the allegation that we're really focusing on now is

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Speaker 2: that this man, this architect, lived in a neighborhood, in

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Speaker 2: this lovely, beautiful, frankly affluent neighborhood right on the water

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Speaker 2: and picturesque. It's like the kind of thing you like,

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Speaker 2: go to university, and like he was kind of a

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Speaker 2: boring guy, a really sleepy neighbor. Nobody trick or treated

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Speaker 2: at their house because on the block and maybe you've

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Speaker 2: seen this house, you know, I remember a house similar

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Speaker 2: to this when I was growing up. It was like

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Speaker 2: the one house you skipped. You didn't go to that

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Speaker 2: house on Halloween. It was just, you know, unlike the others,

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Speaker 2: it was mismatched, and really it seemed like nobody had

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Speaker 2: cared about it for a really long time, even the

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Speaker 2: fact that he was an architect and had a family there.

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Speaker 2: It just felt a little displaced. But that's not the point.

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Speaker 2: They allegedly in his basement he had a bit of

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Speaker 2: a vault, and what he's being accused of is that

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Speaker 2: there was a vault in this suburban home in the

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Speaker 2: basement that lacked any audios, So nobody could hear any

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Speaker 2: screams or cries while two children and your wife are upstairs,

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Speaker 2: and that allegedly some of the victims were being brought there,

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Speaker 2: lured there, and tortured for endless amounts of time, and

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Speaker 2: that there was this corresponding list, a kill list of

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Speaker 2: things to keep him organized, to put into place when

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Speaker 2: he had said woman trapped. And by the way, these

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Speaker 2: victims were loved and missed and really lovely young women

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Speaker 2: who had lives ahead, So you know, it's unparallel tragedy.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, now, certainly that's important to note. Thank you, Stephanie.

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Speaker 5: I had a question and I don't know if anyone

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Speaker 5: has the answer to Stephanie. You just said untold amounts

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Speaker 5: of time. And interesting to note is that if the

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Speaker 5: facts that we know are true, that many of these

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Speaker 5: crimes did take place exactly actly when his wife was

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Speaker 5: out of town.

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Speaker 6: So that's one thing.

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Speaker 5: But on the list something that stuck out to me,

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Speaker 5: and this is under notes section, so it's not in

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Speaker 5: pre prep or dispose of, but one of the notes

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Speaker 5: is Stockholm syndrome, which to me would indicate that some

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Speaker 5: of these people were potentially were there for quite some time.

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Speaker 5: Does anyone. As have people been talking about that and

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Speaker 5: I missed it.

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Speaker 2: I've heard a bit about it, and I can speak

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Speaker 2: to it a little bit. You know, Stockholm syndrome. I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna just totally muck this up. I'm not a therapist,

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Speaker 2: but I think Stockholm syndrome is referencing a specific woman

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Speaker 2: who was held captive famously, and she with a gun

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Speaker 2: to her head famously like it like kind of embraced

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Speaker 2: in a way air quotes her captor, the person who

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Speaker 2: was going to kill her with a gun to her head.

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Speaker 2: She spoke to him emotionally. She's sort of tapped into

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Speaker 2: sort of his mental headspace, not because she was loving

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Speaker 2: him or liking him, but simply because he was the

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Speaker 2: greatest danger facing her. Allegedly, there were like you know,

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Speaker 2: bomb scare people outside and people that were going to

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Speaker 2: like talk this killer off the ledge, and this woman

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Speaker 2: knew enough to say, I'm going to look this man

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Speaker 2: in the eye with a gun to my head and

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Speaker 2: somehow relate to him as a human and ultimately that worked.

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Speaker 2: It got later kind of confused by like, oh, she

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Speaker 2: loved her captor, and that's not love. That was survival. Survival.

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Speaker 2: It was literally like risk management times of bajillion. So

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Speaker 2: Stockholm syndrome if that's on his list, is also extra psycho,

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Speaker 2: because that would imply a relationship between him as a

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Speaker 2: killer and his victim. And I can promise you these

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Speaker 2: women did not want to be there by any stretch

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Speaker 2: of the imagination. And we're petrified for the ead.

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Speaker 3: I actually think that that could be his perception of it.

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Speaker 3: He's trying to superimpose perhaps the idea that of course

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Speaker 3: they're going to love me because I'm doing this with

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Speaker 3: them and for them, it doesn't matter how much I

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Speaker 3: terrorize them.

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Speaker 4: Well, on his list is toys, get rid of toys,

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Speaker 4: like this was all play to him.

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Speaker 2: This was all like, it's super fun for the woman

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Speaker 2: hanging by her neck from your ceiling, so fun, such play.

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Speaker 4: Speaking of one of the things on his checklists and

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Speaker 4: under things to remember is use heavy rope for neck

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Speaker 4: light rope broke under stress of being tightened. So he's

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Speaker 4: like making a mistake and he's learning from it, right,

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Speaker 4: and then he's correcting it until the next time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean this is going to need something that's

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Speaker 3: that's robust. Well, and he talks about the indication. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: he did. And of course, going back to the hard point,

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Speaker 3: if you just think about placing an eyebolt into a

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Speaker 3: beam overhead, that could be a hard point for him,

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Speaker 3: a place for suspension. But it's fascinating the light rope

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Speaker 3: thing versus the heavier rope, more robust rope. That means

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Speaker 3: that maybe there's spending variance there, that something occurred with

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Speaker 3: one of the preceding victims where they knew that he knew,

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Speaker 3: they knew that he needed something a bit more robust

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Speaker 3: that would handle.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he's learning from all his mistakes. Another thing on

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Speaker 4: this list, he he has like some things and and

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Speaker 4: here's the thing we don't know what means, but there's

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Speaker 4: a post event destroy file. So he must have kept

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Speaker 4: a file for each victim. And I don't think they've

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Speaker 4: recovered those yet. They have, they haven't released them. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: chant yeah, photos photos. Yeah, we'll stick with us here.

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Speaker 4: We're going to be continuing this conversation with Joseph and

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Speaker 4: he's going to walk us through the potential vulnerabilities in

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Speaker 4: the Idaho crime scene. Stick with us right here for

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Speaker 4: true crime.

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Speaker 2: Tonight, we've been talking about very scary things regarding the

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Speaker 2: Long Island serial killer forensics. And now moving on to

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Speaker 2: yet another very scary case involving forensics, the Idaho college

401
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Speaker 2: murders accused Brian Coberger is looking to stand trial in August.

402
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Speaker 2: And again, if you're not familiar with this case, for

403
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Speaker 2: incredible students Kayleie Gonzalvez, Xana Cronodle, Madison Mogan, and Ethan

404
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Speaker 2: Chapin all lost their lives one night, same house, same university,

405
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Speaker 2: very very regular college night, and then suddenly they're all killed.

406
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Speaker 2: And the person who was arrested and is now about

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Speaker 2: to stand a death sentence trial was also a PhD

408
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Speaker 2: criminology student studying the actual acts that he's now accused

409
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Speaker 2: of from a neighboring school. So it's a very complicated case,

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Speaker 2: mostly because there doesn't appear to be a really good,

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Speaker 2: not good, it's not the right word, but a really

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Speaker 2: strong connection between the four victims and the accused killers.

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Speaker 2: So you know, that's kind of rare. Usually we see love, revenge, money,

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Speaker 2: there's usually some sort of a backstory, and this one

415
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Speaker 2: seems to have very little cross section, which frankly makes

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Speaker 2: it like every scary movie we've ever seen. And Joseph,

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Speaker 2: you've been at the forefront of this. You were on

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Speaker 2: the phone when these murders happened. I think you were

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Speaker 2: the first person I spoke to, and it seemed unimaginable.

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Speaker 2: And now with this trial approaching, the forensics are more

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Speaker 2: significant than ever, and we're so glad that you're here

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Speaker 2: to unpack them.

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Speaker 3: I'm glad to be here with you, guys. I guess

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Speaker 3: looking back in time, how many years has it been now?

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Speaker 3: Where it's been year?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah. What shocked me initially was how long it

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Speaker 3: took to hook somebody up on charges. I really thought

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Speaker 3: a town that small, that they'd have the pricelets on

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Speaker 3: somebody really really quick. And of course I think we

431
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Speaker 3: had to wait a month and a half, you know,

432
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 3: before they were able to do that.

433
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there was a man hunt, like a national manhunt.

434
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 2: We were all petch of fight and everybody in that small,

435
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 2: beautiful town imagine college students. It took a beautiful place, really,

436
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 2: all locking the doors and you know, bracing for it

437
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 2: because there was a killer at large, a dangerous killer

438
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 2: at large.

439
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,679
Speaker 4: So since we have Joseph here, let's like ask him

440
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 4: some crime scene questions. You guys, good with that? Yes, yes,

441
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 4: So Joseph. Let's let's talk about like the initial walkthrough

442
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 4: and investigation of the scene. What are some of the

443
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 4: things that a quadruple murder scene, especially in a small town,

444
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 4: would have, Like what are some of the things that

445
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 4: you would expect and you know, what would the first

446
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 4: responders have seen and done?

447
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 3: Well, if you've got first responders rolling in, which is

448
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 3: you know, commonly what you think about the first officer

449
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 3: there was, but more particularly fire service or EMTs, because

450
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 3: they don't know what they're walking into. They have to

451
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 3: go in and assess, and we make a bit of

452
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 3: support of them many times because they you know, they

453
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 3: mess up the scene sometimes for us, but that's not

454
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 3: their job. Their job is to try to save lives

455
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,880
Speaker 3: and God bless they saved my life before. So they

456
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 3: have to go in and assess, but they're immediately supposed

457
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 3: to back out, and the police that are there, even

458
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 3: the young youngest uniform cop there, knows to tell them

459
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 3: to get out. Once the scene is locked down, you

460
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 3: have to make sure that it's safe. That's the key.

461
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 3: So they'll be what's referred to as an initial walkthrough

462
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 3: just to secure the scene. So you'll have the police

463
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 3: officers literally going and I'm talking about uniforms now going

464
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 3: from room to room just to make sure that there's

465
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 3: no one else in there, first off, that needs medical assistance,

466
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,159
Speaker 3: or secondly, no one that's going to attack them or

467
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 3: attacked whoever is going to follow up, and you're adrenalinist popped,

468
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 3: really pumping at this point in time. It's terrifying. And

469
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 3: so once it's cleared, once it's clear they're not doing

470
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,640
Speaker 3: a search for evidence, they're actually doing a search. They're

471
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 3: actually doing a search for a perpetrator. Once they've established

472
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 3: that it's safe, you have to back out. Everybody there,

473
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 3: Every principal backs out. Thing is locked down. They set

474
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 3: up a perimeter. We always see the yellow tape. There's

475
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 3: a reason we have yellow tape. That means do not

476
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 3: cross this boundary that yours, the side is ours. And

477
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 3: then you wait for a warrant. You have to wait

478
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 3: for a warrant, and that generally comes about as a

479
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 3: result of detective showing up and consulting with a DA

480
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 3: They drop a warrant and go to magistrate a judge.

481
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 3: This is what we need. We don't want to go

482
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 3: back in here. There's no exception for homicides constitutionally interesting.

483
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 3: In fact, you need those protections.

484
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 2: Tell that I did not know that.

485
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 4: Now I think I knew that, but I never really

486
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 4: thought about it.

487
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 2: So wait, if I walk in, if I'm a cop

488
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 2: and I walk into this crazy crime scene, God forbid,

489
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 2: and I walk into the house and it's quiet, and

490
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 2: I'm looking, I'm looking for danger. Obviously, maybe there's somebody

491
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 2: who is hiding, who's an assailant, maybe there are other victims.

492
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 2: But if I see sort of like a closet a jar,

493
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 2: and I look in and I don't see a person,

494
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 2: but maybe I see some blood trickling on the floor,

495
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 2: do I look further or do I have to wait

496
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 2: for the warrant?

497
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 3: No? No, if you see blood emanating, you can push

498
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 3: it open and you're going to have your weapon out.

499
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 3: You're going to clear it and make sure that there

500
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 3: is nobody in there. So we're not going to go

501
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 3: digging through the compt I can't.

502
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 2: Go through the drawers for example, or anything.

503
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, no, no. That that's Foreboden. You

504
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 3: can't do it to prior to having a warrant, understood.

505
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 5: So, Joseph, at this scene, my understanding was that there

506
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 5: were many people through the scene and do you have

507
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 5: any thoughts on how secure it was or wasn't, And

508
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 5: also about Prosecutor Bill Thompson going.

509
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 6: Through the scene.

510
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, it would be one of my biggest questions, Like

511
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 3: if I was if I was using this case an

512
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 3: example to teach at the police academy or even at

513
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 3: the university, we would closely examine this case. And I

514
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 3: hate to question why, but for me, I would say,

515
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 3: why would you make this choice moving forward? Because if

516
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 3: you choose to allow anybody across that threshold, that is

517
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 3: not processing the scene, and that means photography, trace, evance, corner, okay, measurements.

518
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 3: Other than that, no one else needs to go in there.

519
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 3: My understanding was Prosecutor maybe some of his teammates went

520
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 3: in there potentially. I have little or no tolerance for that.

521
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 3: I've been out on scenes where I've had sheriffs walk in.

522
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 3: They have been on a crime scene in twenty years,

523
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 3: but yet they go under the tape. They have no

524
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 3: reason to be there. That's why they keep somebody at

525
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 3: the door with a list, and you have a lot

526
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 3: when you walk in and that Yeah, the log is

527
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 3: you hear about the mystery log. The log. You can

528
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 3: have that subpoena and the attorneys can say, sheriff, why

529
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 3: were you here? You know or I guess you could

530
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 3: technically subpoena compel the DA to testify what's your purpose

531
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 3: for walking through the scene, And they're going to come

532
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 3: up with something like, well, we just wanted to contextualize,

533
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 3: saying now you let the investigators contextualize it for you.

534
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 3: You tell them, no, one, this is like walking into

535
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 3: a freaking surgery suite. If you're not washed up, if

536
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 3: you're not scrubbed up, if you're not covered, you have

537
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 3: no business being there. There's there's no explanation in the

538
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 3: world for you being there. And so that's that's really

539
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 3: something to defense I think can attack if these rumors

540
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 3: are true.

541
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 2: And that's significant just for the play along. If you're

542
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 2: not familiar with, you know, very violent crime scenes. Is

543
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 2: that look, it's it's sacred if you're entering a crime

544
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 2: scene and it's not meant to be that you're there

545
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 2: and you're not properly washed and you're not I know

546
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 2: this only because I get to work with Joseph Scott Morgan.

547
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 2: If you're entering a crime scene you're contaminating it. Potentially

548
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 2: every person has every person has DNA that they're you know,

549
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,239
Speaker 2: air quotes shedding. Such a gross term, but you know

550
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 2: we are right. Or think about it. You walk into

551
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,719
Speaker 2: a crime scene, you're wearing certain shoes, it's disrupting the scene.

552
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 2: And later at trial, even if it's not really disruptive,

553
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 2: it gives a real crack into the system for the

554
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 2: defense to say, Hey, we're talking about DNA, we're talking

555
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 2: about blood, We're talking about very important things that could

556
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 2: put a person to death. How was this crime scene handled?

557
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 2: We saw this with the OJ Simpson case. I've learned

558
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 2: this through Joseph Scott Morgan Daily. You know how that

559
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 2: is handled much like a surgical suite. You wouldn't just put,

560
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 2: you know, a party planner as a pilot and have

561
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 2: them land the plane right. It's very specific and therefore

562
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 2: has to be handled with care.

563
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, for me, people get sick and tired of me

564
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 3: hearing me say this. But our patron saint in forensics

565
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 3: is Edmond Lecard. This guy lived over one hundred years ago.

566
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 3: O or to anybody within the sound of my voice,

567
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 3: look him up. It came up with a theory or

568
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 3: with this treatisy that he developed over one hundred years

569
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 3: ago that says every not some, but every contact leaves

570
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 3: a trace. So you're dragging in any evidence you have

571
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 3: on your person in there, and you're also taking stuff

572
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 3: away and so and Mond got that right. It even

573
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 3: applause in digital forensics, if you can imagine that now,

574
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 3: all those years ago he developed that construct, and it's

575
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 3: fascinating to me and to see. And what's really fascinating

576
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 3: is that our public officials still haven't learned a lesson

577
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 3: that's being taught for over a century now.

578
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 2: Craziness, because it really does affect the trial.

579
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 7: Right.

580
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 2: So here we are on the eve of Brian Coberger,

581
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 2: the accused trial. He claims his innocence. It's a death

582
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 2: sentenced trial scheduled for August. He's asked for and continuous.

583
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 2: It doesn't seem as though it's going to get delayed,

584
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 2: but you know, we shall wait and see body and Courtney,

585
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 2: we've all been following it very closely, Joseph, as had you,

586
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 2: of course. But the crime scene being brought into question

587
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 2: is problematic potentially.

588
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 3: Yeah it is. And listen, I'm not saying that they

589
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 3: did anything wrong surely, but these are areas that this

590
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 3: is an air area where the defense can pick this

591
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 3: apart and they're going to try to do that house process.

592
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 3: All you have to do is look back to that

593
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 3: fateful day when they had the crom scene cleanup unit

594
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 3: that are company that was outside of that house. They'dn't

595
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 3: even set up a tent to go in there. They're

596
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 3: wearing their bunny suits before they go in the white

597
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 3: suits to clean it up. Just to look to that,

598
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 3: and we'll talk about due.

599
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 6: Care then that's right.

600
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 5: So I had Joseph have the pleasure of speaking about

601
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 5: this on the last season of the Idaho Massacre podcast,

602
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 5: and we touched on with the initial investigation of any

603
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 5: scene in this scene, in particular, how you handle when

604
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 5: there's an animal there, because there was a dog in

605
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 5: this lovely friendly house of all of the college roommates.

606
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 6: So could you walk people through that a little bit?

607
00:33:54,840 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 3: Well, first off, not trying to sound cruel, but because

608
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 3: I'm a big dog lover, but that dog is evidence

609
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 3: to a great degree because if there was any harm

610
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 3: that was perpetrated upon that animal, let's just talk in generalities.

611
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 3: First off, that dog, that dog would need to be

612
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 3: closely examined, closely examined for injuries. Do they pair up

613
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 3: or marry up with any kind of injuries maybe a

614
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,720
Speaker 3: victim has sustained. I'm talking from the perspective of cases

615
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 3: that I've worked. Where an animal is present, then you're

616
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 3: going to want to look for trace evidence on the dog,

617
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:34,240
Speaker 3: because dogs are interesting relative to their masters. I've walked,

618
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 3: I've come onto scenes where I've had a dog that

619
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 3: is seated adjacent to their master's body, and the master's

620
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 3: been dead for a long time. They won't move, and

621
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:49,240
Speaker 3: so that also translates into are they carrying any trace

622
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,919
Speaker 3: evidence on their little bodies? Any kind of blood, any

623
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 3: kind of hair, And you might think, wow, needle in

624
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,839
Speaker 3: a haystack. You know, you're looking for a foreign hair

625
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 3: on a hairy animal. That has to be taken into consideration.

626
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 3: And another consideration is do any of the victims in

627
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,399
Speaker 3: the house have trace elements of fiber or hair from

628
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 3: the dog? Really important point here is there anybody else

629
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 3: out there that is being looked at as perpetrator have

630
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 3: hair in their home that may have remembered I talked

631
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,959
Speaker 3: about Maccart's principle just a moment ago. Did they take

632
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 3: hair away from the scene because that's a big question, right,

633
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 3: why do you have hair in your domicile that very

634
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 3: well might be tied back to this horrendous scene. You

635
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 3: have to be able to explain that.

636
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 4: And in the Pullman search warrant for bran Coberger's apartment,

637
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 4: they did find possible animal hair that we don't know

638
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:44,320
Speaker 4: the results of the testing.

639
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 2: Yet though, other than to say that Brian Holberger did

640
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 2: not have an animal correct, but it could have been

641
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 2: from a previous.

642
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,919
Speaker 3: It could be. But they're going to study the morphology

643
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 3: of that hair. Want to say that in forensics, we

644
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 3: study all of the animal key. We'll break that hair down,

645
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 3: take a look at it, and then look at it

646
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:04,240
Speaker 3: genetically as well.

647
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 2: Joseph hold that thought. You'll be right back with us.

648
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 2: We're talking true crime all the time. Colorado husband arrested

649
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 2: for his wife's homicide and more. Brian Coburger and the

650
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 2: Idaho College murders. Stay with us. We talked a little

651
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 2: bit earlier about the Long Island serial killer. Now we're

652
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 2: doing a deep dive into the Idaho college murders. Brian Coburger,

653
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 2: the accused of former PhD student, and you know, technically

654
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 2: it's been you know, much has been made about the

655
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 2: fact that he was potentially studying the crimes he's now

656
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 2: accused of. He's accused of murdering for Idaho college students

657
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 2: in the same house one night, major overkill, no obvious

658
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 2: connection to them other than he was a neighboring student

659
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 2: and might have had a fascination in allegedly allegedly allegedly

660
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,839
Speaker 2: death sentenced trials starting in August, and Joseph has been

661
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 2: in it since day one. He has done the podcast,

662
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 2: he's doing the documentary, and where do we begin.

663
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 5: I'd love to hear. You've been so helpful talking us

664
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 5: through the.

665
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 4: For the microphone.

666
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 2: Yes, no, we're both so eager.

667
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 5: More Joseph, I wanted to get into a little bit

668
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 5: the coroner, what happens, what happened with the corner. What

669
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 5: do people need to know about that process, either in

670
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,320
Speaker 5: general and then specifically in this case.

671
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 3: Kind of let me break it down to you how

672
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 3: the corner works, because that's where I dance, where my

673
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 3: career was. So when the police roll out on a

674
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 3: scene they have a death, that's at you know, wherever

675
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 3: it is. After they secure the scene, the corner or

676
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 3: the medical legal representative. Some states don't have corners, have

677
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 3: medical examiners. We can do an entire show on that

678
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 3: at one point, Tom, but the reality is this, they

679
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 3: will summon the corner to the scene. Now the corner

680
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 3: is not there just as a livery service for the dead.

681
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 3: They're there to do an assessment on the scene to

682
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 3: give you an idea as to the status of the

683
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 3: body before the body is ever removed, because there's certain

684
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 3: things that have to be gleaned at the scene relative

685
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 3: to the body that you can't wait until you get

686
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 3: to the morgu to examine or to pick up data

687
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 3: to retrieve. And that's postmortem interval. It's the biggest thing.

688
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 3: So we're talking about the level of rigidity or ryger mortis,

689
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 3: post mortem lividity, the settling of blood, is it fixed

690
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 3: or is it still what we refer to is blanchable.

691
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 3: And third is going to be what's referred to as

692
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 3: algor mortis, which is body temperature. And just so that

693
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 3: you understand, and I'm going to put this in a

694
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,359
Speaker 3: framework so that everyone can kind of see where I'm

695
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,760
Speaker 3: going with this. For the first hour, for the first

696
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 3: hour after death, you lose one to two degrees of

697
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 3: your body temp. Okay, So we're at ninety eight point six.

698
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,919
Speaker 3: For every hour after death, you lose an additional one

699
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 3: degree and this is in fahrenheit, okay, till the twelfth hour.

700
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 3: Then it's a twelfth hour, our bodies assume room temperature.

701
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 3: So it's the job of the corner at the scene

702
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 3: to assess every one of those bodies and get an

703
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 3: idea for that framework. And that's key in this case

704
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 3: because if we are just to go along with a

705
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 3: narrative that we've heard about, okay, and we think about, well,

706
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 3: Xanna got her food delivery just after four okay, and

707
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:49,879
Speaker 3: then we know allegedly that you know, this may people

708
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 3: are saying that it happened towards the bottom of the hour,

709
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 3: from maybe four fifteen. You know, in that timeframe. If

710
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 3: you go with that idea, they've been deceased for that

711
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 3: period of time. This call doesn't normal. This call doesn't

712
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 3: come in until about eleven. Well, the police roll up.

713
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 3: How long did it take the corner to finally get

714
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,359
Speaker 3: out there where she's going to do the examination. If

715
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 3: you're talking about body temperature, that data is blown to

716
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 3: hell at that point in time.

717
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 2: And this was a complicated case. Yeah, it just was

718
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:25,320
Speaker 2: hours before any activity happened. Right, So if the murders

719
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,839
Speaker 2: occurred in the wee hours at around four am, real,

720
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 2: the authorities didn't get there until closer to noon, highly

721
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 2: you know, contemplated. But that's a big difference.

722
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is. And this is this is the cold

723
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 3: time of year. So let's just say you've got a

724
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 3: body that's laying next to event for and you've got

725
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,760
Speaker 3: central heat on. Well, the body's not going to cool

726
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 3: at the same rate, all right, because it's being exposed

727
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 3: to this heat. That's a big question. People always call

728
00:40:55,800 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 3: alcim mortis postpartum cooling. That's not accurate. All bodies cool

729
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 3: after death, well the majority of them do, but not

730
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 3: all of them do. Depend upon environmental conditions because not

731
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 3: only does the temperature on a body have to be measured,

732
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 3: you have to measure the ambient environmental temperature in order

733
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 3: to establish a baseline mathematically, and that has to be done.

734
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 3: And then I haven't even touched on the rigidity of

735
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 3: the body because that can be marked by time. You know,

736
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 3: it starts in the small muscles. Well they say it

737
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 3: starts everywhere, but it's first appreciating small muscles of the

738
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:35,280
Speaker 3: face extends outward. The large muscle groups are the first ones,

739
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 3: are the last ones you can really appreciate it, like

740
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 3: if you're going to the hips to you know, check

741
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 3: the knees, the hips for flexation. And then post warm

742
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 3: avidity settling a blood, which is actually my favorite because

743
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 3: it's only impacted by gravity. So if a body has

744
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 3: been moved, I can tell you if that body has

745
00:41:55,560 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 3: been moved simply by the deposition of formal avidity. So

746
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 3: all of that stuff has to be assessed.

747
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 2: Can I tell you just a little insider. When Joseph

748
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,879
Speaker 2: and I were on the phone when these murders tragically

749
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 2: first happened, we were blown away and were glued to

750
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 2: the phone, glued to the TV. And I want to

751
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 2: go on record as saying I think Joseph Scott Morgan

752
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 2: ahead of anybody. It had been reported about days after

753
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan identified that there had been a sheath.

754
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 2: I didn't even know what that was.

755
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 4: I talked to him too about that anactly. I was

756
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 4: live on TikTok and I was talking about how, of

757
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 4: course there's a sheath. This was before Brian Coberger was arrested,

758
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 4: and it was because Joseph's got Morgan and I think

759
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 4: it's important to talk about that.

760
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 2: Let's discuss can I didn't even know what that was,

761
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:46,800
Speaker 2: so tell us everything.

762
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 4: Two days after the murder, there was a press conference

763
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,800
Speaker 4: and at this press conference, the sheriff or whatever said

764
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 4: this was all done with the fixed blated weapon. And

765
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 4: Joseph brilliantly was like, there's a sheath and I'm like,

766
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:01,839
Speaker 4: how do you know that? And He's like, how would

767
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 4: they know it was a fixed blade weapon? The autopsies

768
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 4: haven't even been done yet, and I'm.

769
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 2: Like, oh my god, you're so smart. He said this

770
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 2: before it had been read.

771
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 4: It has been where he made me look very smart.

772
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 4: Let me just tell you that.

773
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:16,839
Speaker 2: And by the way, if you're just listening right now,

774
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 2: you pull off a sheath, it's like the kind of

775
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,760
Speaker 2: the covering of this blade. You know you've seen Rambo.

776
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 2: You take it in and out of your like, uh,

777
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 2: your holster. Again, I don't have a great knife knowledge,

778
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 2: but Joseph has explained this to me. So the scariest

779
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 2: image was Joseph describing what could have happened in the

780
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:39,800
Speaker 2: days weeks leading up to the murders is that whoever

781
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 2: had this knife and said sheath was likely practicing in

782
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 2: the mirror, kind of taking the knife out of the holster,

783
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:49,919
Speaker 2: in the beckett, out of the holster, and then back

784
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 2: in practicing it. Because under the snap of this sheath,

785
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 2: which is like the cover to this knife, that's where

786
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 2: the DNA droplet was found, and it would imply that

787
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 2: their finger was on it. I think Dexter thinks scary

788
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 2: people practicing horrifying. It's a horrifying image.

789
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 5: It is a horrifying images, right, Speaking of the knife,

790
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 5: what do people need to know about the wounds? Because

791
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 5: a lot was made of that. Yeah, is there anything

792
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 5: you think people need to know?

793
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think so. There's two types of wounds that

794
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 3: have been alluded to, and it's classic forensic pathology some

795
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 3: things we study. So you've got what are referred to

796
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 3: as in sized wounds, which if you think about I

797
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 3: think it was shakespeare Death bout thousand cuts, right, cuts

798
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 3: are in sized wounds are shallow but long. Okay, So

799
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 3: if you think about slices, all right, I think that Xana,

800
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 3: the description that we have for her, you know, cut

801
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 3: down to the tendons on her hand. Then we have

802
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 3: stab wounds, okay, and stab wounds are deeper than long

803
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,359
Speaker 3: and so you've got these two things that are going on.

804
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 3: So you have someone that is utilizing an edged weapon, uh,

805
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 3: that is driving that weapon into a body, bodies multiple

806
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,839
Speaker 3: times according to what we've heard, and then the slashing,

807
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 3: and you know, there's these and I'm saying this not

808
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 3: to be crude or any way, but the interesting I'm

809
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 3: interested compelled if you will scientifically virtue the way they're

810
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 3: describing Ethan's injuries. There was alluded to an injury on

811
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 3: the neck at one point time. And then you've got

812
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 3: this bizarre term they're using right now, carving, which I

813
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 3: don't really understand what that means. I know what carving is, obviously,

814
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:51,240
Speaker 3: but I and so you've got.

815
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 2: What does that mean?

816
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 3: It sounds yeah, I mean carving, carving to a lot

817
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 3: of people, I think, just everyday folks, you know, And

818
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 3: I'm an everyday person, Yeah, thinking about carving, you know,

819
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about woodworking, all kinds of things that are

820
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,480
Speaker 3: out there. So you know, you can leave a word

821
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 3: behind I listen, not to go too far field, but

822
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 3: we've been covering the case out of Atlanta for a

823
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 3: long time. This lady that was walking her dog and

824
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 3: she was found in Piedmont Park and she had the

825
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 3: word fat carved into her stomach and her dog was

826
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 3: also killed a pit bull. Horrendous case, by the way,

827
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 3: that case is still open, unsolved.

828
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 2: And where was this, Yeah, Atlanta?

829
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, and actually.

830
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 4: Is writing that down there?

831
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, writing that down bow and yeah.

832
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 3: A chilling case. Chilling case absolutely yeah. So yeah, So

833
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 3: I think that from the perspective of injuries, Uh, that's

834
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 3: one of the things that the pathologist is going to

835
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 3: They're they're going to go into great detail. You're going

836
00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 3: to hear so much in this trial about edge weapon

837
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 3: and about the nature of them and what can you

838
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 3: learn And one of the things that I have learned

839
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 3: working cases involving multiple stab wounds, you're going to have

840
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 3: you might even hear them say that they can't delineate

841
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 3: between two separate wounds because they're cross communicating. So if

842
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 3: you have this motion, you know, you guys had mentioned overkill,

843
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,919
Speaker 3: which you get classically, and you can see where it's

844
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 3: not a reinsertion into a wound, but it's almost like

845
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 3: a good an you can't tell where one ends and

846
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 3: one begins. It gets rather complex.

847
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:39,879
Speaker 2: And by the way, what a hideous mode to use, right,

848
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 2: Like it wasn't like he not that shooting somebody with

849
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 2: a gun is easier, but this is a rainbow knife,

850
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 2: very close contact.

851
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 4: It's also worth noting that in the PCA, the wounds

852
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,720
Speaker 4: are described to us or whatever. In the Blaker PA,

853
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 4: it's noted that Ethan's wounds were described from the Spokane

854
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 4: Medical Examiner and not the corner. And I think that

855
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 4: might also contribute to like some of the difference, because

856
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 4: you know, there's going to be different terminology between a

857
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:11,840
Speaker 4: corner and a medical examiner, and I think that's important

858
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 4: to note. I want to talk about the Zillo and

859
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:18,919
Speaker 4: like the house mock up, right that all the photos

860
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 4: of basically the layout of the house are on Zillo

861
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 4: or a site like that. What's the significance of the

862
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 4: closet door as.

863
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 3: Joseph for me? And this is before they captured anybody,

864
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 3: all right, I had an idea in my mind that

865
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 3: first off, I think that this was sexual related, even

866
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 3: if there's no sexual assault, just the use of a

867
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 3: knife is the knife for many people who represents a

868
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 3: fallast and so they repeated over and over thing going on.

869
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 3: You've got these two beautiful young women that they thought

870
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 3: were the targets that that was coming out in the beginning.

871
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 3: And I thought that, and plus we kept hearing about

872
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:09,240
Speaker 3: how unsecure this apartment was or home, everybody music downstairs,

873
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 3: keypad code, and then the sliders were habitually left unsecured.

874
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 3: I thought that if this was a predator, they would

875
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 3: have gone into the closets. We referred to them as

876
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 3: panty sniffers. That's why they kind of start off and

877
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 3: they watch from inside of closet. But you have to

878
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:27,840
Speaker 3: have a secured and I was thinking deposition of DNA,

879
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 3: maybe visitations multiple times. I talked about this several years ago.

880
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 3: Then I saw the Zillow images and there's no doors

881
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 3: on the closet.

882
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:37,319
Speaker 2: None of them.

883
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 3: And that was a big Yeah. That was a big

884
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 3: queue to me, Uh, you know relative to you know, well,

885
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 3: where doors ever there? Or is this something that had

886
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 3: previously been moved? Were doors up something?

887
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 4: You would have known this because they made tiktoks and

888
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 4: instagram posts of from inside the home in all the

889
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:00,400
Speaker 4: different rooms too, right, it would have been able to

890
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 4: stake this house out from his from his own living room. Right,

891
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 4: you don't have Yeah, yeah, what is.

892
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 3: The significant If you ever want an advertisement for what

893
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 3: not to do with your social media, don't show the

894
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 3: inside of your home. That TikTok with those young ladies

895
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,240
Speaker 3: has stuck with me over all of these years because

896
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 3: not only if you watch this thing, they pan around

897
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 3: that entire second floor, you can see the layout. All

898
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 3: you got to slow this thing down if you if

899
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 3: you capture this thing, and then they're portraying each other's personalities.

900
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 3: This is not about victim blaming here. This is just

901
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:42,360
Speaker 3: about what the individual could have seen inside. It's like reconnaissance.

902
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:46,239
Speaker 3: Without doing reconnaissance, it's a heavy it's an easy lift

903
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 3: for somebody that's interested in.

904
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,879
Speaker 2: You and stranger danger. Right, we know about that, Oh,

905
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 2: don't let the weirdo follow you home at night. But

906
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 2: in reality, what we don't all realize, and God knows

907
00:50:56,040 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 2: I do this and this particular case has like stopped me.

908
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:04,359
Speaker 2: But you know, on social media, we all show like, oh,

909
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 2: photos at Thanksgiving, and what you don't realize is that

910
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:11,800
Speaker 2: you're giving a full blueprint of your home. You're showing doors,

911
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 2: you're showing windows, you're showing the identifying you know, spots

912
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:18,839
Speaker 2: in the in the front yard, et cetera. And if

913
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:22,280
Speaker 2: you're you know, dealing with somebody who's emotionally not well

914
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 2: or psychologically twisted, who just takes a fascination with you online,

915
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:31,240
Speaker 2: look suddenly you're down the rabbit hole and you're examining

916
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 2: that house to understand better entrances and exits. And in

917
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:40,279
Speaker 2: Idaho specifically, they all lived off campus, and you know,

918
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:41,840
Speaker 2: it's a party house that was supposed to be a

919
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 2: party house. That's what they were doing. They were all graduating,

920
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 2: or some of them were, and this was a house

921
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 2: that was like frequented for fun and no shame in

922
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 2: that game. Other than now retrospectively, we know that they

923
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 2: were really active on social media, the victims. So if

924
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 2: you're a weirdo watching somebody from the outside side of

925
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 2: a house looking in, you may develop a relationship with

926
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 2: someone online that has no idea who you are. Scary,

927
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 2: it's a scariest It is scary, next level to the

928
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 2: Halloween movies because if he's if he's noticing there's no

929
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 2: doors on these closets, he knows that he can't sneak

930
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 2: in the house while they're at the football game, right,

931
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 2: the Vandals football game, partying and having a good time.

932
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 4: And wait for them to come home. Yes, you're not

933
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:25,880
Speaker 4: going to be able to hide.

934
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:28,640
Speaker 2: Wait, is that why you're saying the doors? I don't.

935
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 2: I'm not totally tracking, forgive me, because that's why I'm saying.

936
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 2: And I thought, what's what what's the significance of their

937
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 2: not being doors on the closets and.

938
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 4: That he can't hide in the house basically and in

939
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 4: one of their bedrooms right Scarier I'm guessing.

940
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was early on, because you know who doesn't

941
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 3: have doors on their closet. And when I finally saw

942
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:55,760
Speaker 3: the photos of it, I had to discount the idea

943
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 3: that he had been hiding out and watching, you know,

944
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 3: because if let's just say, you go up there at

945
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 3: a party and this is not just me saying this,

946
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 3: people have said it for a long time now, and

947
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:08,320
Speaker 3: you make your way through the house at one of

948
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 3: these parties that's going on, and you kind of hang

949
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:13,840
Speaker 3: back and you wait, and you go into closet, you

950
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 3: hang out in there, you act out fantasies, all these

951
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:20,359
Speaker 3: sorts of things. It struck me as potential for this

952
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 3: because look, who whoever went into the now torn down

953
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 3: home they had I think that they had reconned it

954
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 3: in some way, that the structure of the thing is insane.

955
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:35,799
Speaker 3: You'd have to be familiar with it. And one more thing,

956
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 3: you could be in the middle of the night with

957
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 3: the lights on that house up the hill and see

958
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:42,360
Speaker 3: everything that's going on through the windows.

959
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 4: Oh boy, that's a really good point. And that's probably

960
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 4: I think what he did.

961
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:50,839
Speaker 2: Not back to this list against only get so much.

962
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:55,360
Speaker 2: I literally can't my brain from all of the sad.

963
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:58,440
Speaker 2: But I'm so curious too, So take it away, body,

964
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 2: because somewhat more, there's.

965
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 4: Google searches that he did as well. There's Google searches,

966
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:06,840
Speaker 4: and again that's I just kind of want to go

967
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 4: through a couple of them very quickly, just in case

968
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 4: you're just joining us, can you tell us a little bit? Okay,

969
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 4: so long il well sorry. LISK stands for Long Island

970
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 4: serial Killer and the accused is Rex Hureman. He's a

971
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 4: fifty nine year old architect from New York, Long Island.

972
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 4: He's been alleged to have been involved in seven murders.

973
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 4: There's eleven in total. He's linked to two more so

974
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 4: potentially nine and the other two he's not linked to yet,

975
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:38,760
Speaker 4: And there's been basically digital forensics done on his computer

976
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 4: to retrieve Google searches. And that's kind of what I'm

977
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 4: talking about right now, is some of the thats Google search.

978
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 5: Body, I have a feeling I know exactly where you're going,

979
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 5: And I just wanted to say, this is a trigger warning. Yes,

980
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:55,719
Speaker 5: So yeah, we're about to discuss some disturbing specifics in

981
00:54:55,760 --> 00:55:00,959
Speaker 5: the Rex Hureman case. Some are violence, sexual nature. So yeah,

982
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 5: the listener discretion is strongly advised.

983
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 6: No children.

984
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I'm not going to I'm not gonna talk

985
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:11,799
Speaker 4: about some of the more graphic and insulting ones. I

986
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:15,240
Speaker 4: guess they're all pretty insulting. But some of the things

987
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 4: are wooden pony porn. Is that I don't know?

988
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:21,840
Speaker 2: Wooden pony porn?

989
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 4: Girl, I am like a nun.

990
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 2: Vanilla? How have we been talking about Diddy for weeks now?

991
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 2: How how could we be this vanilla? What is? If

992
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 2: anybody knows the answer to this, you could leave us

993
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:38,239
Speaker 2: a message. Uh eight eight eighty three one crime so

994
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 2: wooden pony porn.

995
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, Another one is gold. I can't say some of

996
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 4: these are really Bad Long Island Mistress b DSM, which

997
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 4: is interesting because he mentions the hard point in that

998
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:55,840
Speaker 4: the checklist that we went over. The hard points are

999
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:59,840
Speaker 4: often associated with the b DSM lifestyle, which is completely

1000
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 4: normal and nothing. There's no shame in that. But it's

1001
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:05,879
Speaker 4: just a stand for bondage. Bondage.

1002
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's it's something with like, yeah, it's

1003
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 2: a little bit like what is the movie uh with

1004
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 2: the bonded Uh. I have no idea was based in

1005
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:16,760
Speaker 2: the book.

1006
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:18,800
Speaker 6: Oh are you talking about that? Every woman?

1007
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:20,839
Speaker 1: Oh?

1008
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 2: Fifty shades of gray? Fifty shades of gray? Wasn't that

1009
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:26,239
Speaker 2: a smidge of that? Oh my god, this is so

1010
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:27,719
Speaker 2: painful that I'm saying this out left.

1011
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah, but you're exactly right, Stephanie. That is that

1012
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 6: is what.

1013
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 2: Mom closed your ears.

1014
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:34,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is all just very This is all just

1015
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:35,799
Speaker 4: very interesting.

1016
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:37,839
Speaker 2: That Johnson taught me it. But we have a.

1017
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 4: Caller, Stephanie, and I would really like to hear what

1018
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:43,280
Speaker 4: Stephanie has to say and whatnot.

1019
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:46,919
Speaker 7: Hey, Hi, Stephanie, I want to Hi.

1020
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:50,240
Speaker 8: I would like to circle back to the house.

1021
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 7: I came into listening to the Idaho for Case through

1022
00:56:55,800 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 7: you and some other people and I still have our

1023
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:06,160
Speaker 7: time understanding really the reasoning that the house was tore down,

1024
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:08,399
Speaker 7: And I just wondered if you guys knew of any

1025
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 7: other cases where something had.

1026
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 8: Happened in a house they tore it down, or that

1027
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:19,200
Speaker 8: there was the contrary a benefit to keeping it where

1028
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:24,400
Speaker 8: people could the jury could go in and actually observe firsthand.

1029
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:26,720
Speaker 8: I really am torn on that. I think that they

1030
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 8: should have kept the house up, and I just want

1031
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 8: to know your guys's opinions on that.

1032
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 4: You're definitely You're definitely not alone in that feeling. A

1033
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 4: lot of people are, you know, really actually very upset

1034
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:39,760
Speaker 4: that the house is taken down. I my own personal

1035
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:43,560
Speaker 4: viewpoint on that is that I don't think a jury

1036
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 4: would have ever been allowed in that house. We've gotten

1037
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 4: pictures of some of the inside of the house from

1038
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 4: the faral target scan that was done. We were able

1039
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 4: to see in some of the rooms and walls and

1040
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,760
Speaker 4: floors have been removed from the home. I don't know

1041
00:57:56,880 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 4: that a judge would have allowed a jury to go

1042
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 4: in there. Additionally, since it's been moved now, I know

1043
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 4: the house was torn down before the trial got moved,

1044
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:09,320
Speaker 4: but it's hours and hours and hours away, and everybody

1045
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 4: always references myrdal. Well, they took murd all to the

1046
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:13,920
Speaker 4: crime scene. Yeah, it was outside true.

1047
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 2: And the piked and massacre. We also took jurors to

1048
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 2: that site, although the locations had since been removed. Again,

1049
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna quote Joseph Scott Morgan while he stares

1050
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 2: at us. Yeah, and just he's gonna test me. He

1051
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:28,760
Speaker 2: wants the house up. He's gonna test me on what

1052
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 2: I've learned just by his presence. But Stephanie, you and

1053
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 2: I are thinking exactly the same. The truth is we

1054
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 2: don't know, and therefore shouldn't we not know until after

1055
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 2: the trial? Like who knows? We all could be right

1056
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 2: and we all could be wrong, But maybe just a

1057
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 2: couple more months and we can then destroy the house

1058
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 2: because who knows what evidence that what maybe proves him

1059
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 2: innocent or maybe proves him guilty.

1060
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 4: No, And I think that's a really interesting point and

1061
00:58:57,640 --> 00:58:59,959
Speaker 4: it's very fair. But stick around next because we're gonna

1062
00:58:59,960 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 4: be fill on on a mom who vanished without a trace.

1063
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 4: In years later, her husband is charged with murder, And

1064
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 4: don't forget to call us at eight thirty one crime

1065
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 4: with your thoughts on any of Tonight's stories, keep it

1066
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 4: regular true crime.

1067
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 2: Tonight, we're talking about the Long Island serial killer right now,

1068
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 2: Rex Humor Men, who has been accused of being linked

1069
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 2: to seven women on Long Island. There are eleven that

1070
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 2: have been identified so far. It's very possible that he'll

1071
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 2: be linked to more, allegedly allegedly allegedly, but this is

1072
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 2: a very specific case because this was a regular man

1073
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:44,760
Speaker 2: who commuted to New York City every day and then

1074
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 2: out of that no more, which is a little similar

1075
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 2: to Brian Coburger in the Idaho college murders. Because similarly,

1076
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 2: this is again a really like upwardly mobile guy, educated,

1077
00:59:56,840 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 2: living a good life. Why would he possibly commit a

1078
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:03,920
Speaker 2: CROs I'm for college students so quickly. Why would anybody

1079
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 2: do that? It doesn't make any sense. So Courtney, I

1080
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:08,560
Speaker 2: just see you raising your hand right now. Did you

1081
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:09,520
Speaker 2: have a question for the room?

1082
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, well kind of. I was just gonna say.

1083
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:14,960
Speaker 5: I know, we've already started plotting research, so we are

1084
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:17,960
Speaker 5: going to be getting into all of that this week,

1085
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:21,040
Speaker 5: so stay tuned for all of the details. But I

1086
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 5: think right now, I'm so excited, That's why I had

1087
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 5: to raise my hand there is the case of the

1088
01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 5: mother who vanished on Mother's Day. Her husband has just

1089
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 5: been charged with her murder body. What do we need

1090
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:34,800
Speaker 5: to know about it?

1091
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:35,959
Speaker 2: So much?

1092
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 4: There is a lot to go over with the Morphew case.

1093
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:42,280
Speaker 4: And while we have Joseph here though, we're kind of

1094
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 4: here's the thing. This case is going to be big.

1095
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 4: It already is kind of big, but it's going to

1096
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:50,320
Speaker 4: be big, and we're going to be deep diving this

1097
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 4: in the coming weeks, I would say, probably coming weeks.

1098
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 4: And while Joseph is here though, I kind of want

1099
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:59,280
Speaker 4: to skip ahead a little bit because I want to

1100
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:01,560
Speaker 4: get into the front while we have him. But I

1101
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 4: want to give everybody listening a little bit of background first.

1102
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 4: So Barry Morphew was indicted on Friday this Friday, June

1103
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:13,000
Speaker 4: twentieth by a grand jury for allegedly killing his wife,

1104
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:17,080
Speaker 4: who disappeared on Mother's Day in twenty twenty, Suzanne, forty nine.

1105
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:20,920
Speaker 4: She went reported missing from her home with him in Molfat,

1106
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:23,400
Speaker 4: Colorado after she went for a bike ride and she

1107
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:27,560
Speaker 4: never came back. Her body was never found. Okay, well,

1108
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:30,760
Speaker 4: a year later on in twenty twenty one, like almost

1109
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:34,360
Speaker 4: I think exactly a year later, Barry Morphew was arrested.

1110
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:37,800
Speaker 4: So four years ago he was arrested and charged with

1111
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 4: the murder. Prosecutors alleged that Barry was responsible for her death,

1112
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 4: citing evidence such as a trail of suspicious texts, weird

1113
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 4: behavior and all this like crazy behavior after she disappeared.

1114
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 4: They suggested that the motive for the crime would be

1115
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:54,720
Speaker 4: related to susan want to divorce or leave him. Okay, Well,

1116
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:58,080
Speaker 4: in April of twenty twenty two, a year after that,

1117
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:02,640
Speaker 4: after a really long investigation and legal proceedings, prosecutors recommended

1118
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 4: that they drop charges because they couldn't prove it and

1119
01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:09,520
Speaker 4: they knew and they wanted it. They wanted it dismissed

1120
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 4: with prejudice or without prejudice so that they could recharge

1121
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:15,400
Speaker 4: them again, and they got that was successful, so he

1122
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:19,160
Speaker 4: was arrested. Well, I guess three years have gone by now, right, Joseph.

1123
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:21,320
Speaker 4: Three years have gone by and he got re arrested.

1124
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:24,480
Speaker 4: So I just kind of want to jump right in

1125
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:28,760
Speaker 4: to what the indictment says, because the indictment gives us

1126
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:31,000
Speaker 4: a really good insight into some of the forensics in

1127
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 4: this case, which are going to be huge okay, and

1128
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 4: I'm going to read before we get to Joseph. I

1129
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:38,440
Speaker 4: want to read the part that I think is the

1130
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:42,600
Speaker 4: most alarming in the indictment. Okay, A board certified forensics

1131
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:47,919
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, A board certified forensic anthropologist, a botanist, and

1132
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:53,240
Speaker 4: an entomologist all analyzed the remains and several observations were noted.

1133
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:57,240
Speaker 4: There was a distinct lack of bug activity, which was

1134
01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:01,680
Speaker 4: inconsistent with the remains having decomposed at that location. The

1135
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 4: clothing items lacked evidence of dcomp which was also inconsistent

1136
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:09,720
Speaker 4: with Suzanne Morphew wearing the bike clothes at the time

1137
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 4: her body decomposed. Additionally, there was a lack of animal

1138
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 4: predication on the bones, there was a very small amount

1139
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:20,520
Speaker 4: of soft tissue found on the bones, and there was

1140
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:24,520
Speaker 4: no hair mass located. All of these features would have

1141
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 4: been expected if this had been her original grave site

1142
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 4: where the decomp occurred. A forensic anthropologist opined that based

1143
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 4: on these factors, it was unlikely that Suzanne decomposed from

1144
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:41,200
Speaker 4: a fresh body to a skeleton at this location. So

1145
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:45,600
Speaker 4: the implications of this where she was put somewhere where

1146
01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:49,600
Speaker 4: she experienced dcomp and then redressed right.

1147
01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:52,600
Speaker 2: Wait, because dressed like clothes put back on is what

1148
01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 2: that means, because it.

1149
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:57,000
Speaker 4: Says the body, it says the indictment. The clothing items

1150
01:03:57,080 --> 01:03:59,760
Speaker 4: lacked evidence of dcomp wait her dead.

1151
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:03,520
Speaker 2: This is very graphic. Heard, I'm sorry her decompose her

1152
01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:08,440
Speaker 2: body now no longer living, her dead body. Whoever did this,

1153
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 2: allegedly her husband, he like got her dressed again and

1154
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:13,919
Speaker 2: then put her someplace else.

1155
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 4: He had to put her in my mother's day.

1156
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 2: They have two beautiful children together who have stood by

1157
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 2: him as his daughters.

1158
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:24,240
Speaker 4: He has two daughters, are crazy and there they were

1159
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:27,760
Speaker 4: seventeen and nineteen at the time of good death, and

1160
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 4: I think they're like twenty four and twenty two.

1161
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:33,680
Speaker 2: Now twenty two. I believe. I'll do a fact check,

1162
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:35,440
Speaker 2: but that's my understanding as well.

1163
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:37,520
Speaker 4: And they have stayed by his side. They have stayed

1164
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:37,960
Speaker 4: by his side.

1165
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:41,760
Speaker 2: They miss their mom deeply. I imagine of Joseph.

1166
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:45,240
Speaker 4: So, Joseph, what stands out to you and all this, Joseph,

1167
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:48,240
Speaker 4: what is the in what I just read from the indictment?

1168
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:49,360
Speaker 4: What stands out to you?

1169
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:52,440
Speaker 3: Well? I think now this new information, you know, have

1170
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:55,600
Speaker 3: been covering the same since twenty I said, saying in

1171
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:58,720
Speaker 3: this case since twenty twenty, I think is when it

1172
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 3: first popped and was just knee deep in it. The

1173
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:05,960
Speaker 3: first time I had heard this is the first time

1174
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:10,040
Speaker 3: I've heard about the idea that she may have been

1175
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 3: redeposited somewhere her remains had been. And this is chilling

1176
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:21,320
Speaker 3: because whoever perpetrated this death and if we were to

1177
01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:26,480
Speaker 3: believe what the entomologists and the anthropologist are saying, she

1178
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:29,040
Speaker 3: would have had to have been removed from the initial

1179
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:33,320
Speaker 3: location and still protective against animal predation, because one of

1180
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:35,720
Speaker 3: the things that you're looking for after death was skal

1181
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:39,520
Speaker 3: for remains. Is you have this, and forgive me because

1182
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:44,400
Speaker 3: this is rathographic, but you actually have gnawing on bones,

1183
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:47,840
Speaker 3: and you'd be surprised what animals out there do this.

1184
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:52,120
Speaker 3: It's not big animals. We're talking about raccoons, possums, these

1185
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:56,600
Speaker 3: sorts of things. So that means that someone put a

1186
01:05:56,600 --> 01:06:00,480
Speaker 3: lot of thought into this and removed her remains to

1187
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:03,360
Speaker 3: another location, which is incredible.

1188
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:07,640
Speaker 4: What kind of area can protect the human body from

1189
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 4: animal preantation?

1190
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:12,760
Speaker 3: Like what kind of field area? A field area of

1191
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:16,439
Speaker 3: some kind. Yeah, and I don't know where that might

1192
01:06:16,640 --> 01:06:21,160
Speaker 3: have been, and for me, it's it's mind boggling. I

1193
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:25,080
Speaker 3: don't know. I've had bodies that have been replaced in

1194
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:29,120
Speaker 3: locations or have been placed in other locations after having

1195
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:34,280
Speaker 3: been killed, but to this extent and particularly the redressing,

1196
01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:38,600
Speaker 3: is something that's very interesting to me because it's it's

1197
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:39,480
Speaker 3: so over the top.

1198
01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:40,280
Speaker 4: It is.

1199
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:44,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, how common is it for the redressing and what

1200
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:47,200
Speaker 5: is the purpose? Is that something sort of ritualistic or

1201
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:49,240
Speaker 5: trying to not frame.

1202
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:53,800
Speaker 3: Yourself with Yeah, yeah, actually with redressing. That's that's a

1203
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:57,640
Speaker 3: term that we generally utilized when we're talking about serial events,

1204
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 3: and that goes into theopathy of individuals that like to

1205
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:06,320
Speaker 3: dress bodies and do all that sort of thing. Yeah,

1206
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:09,840
Speaker 3: and uh, you know, when you hear this is an

1207
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:12,400
Speaker 3: example somebody that's going to go to great links in

1208
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:16,760
Speaker 3: order to kind of cover their their tracks here because

1209
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:21,280
Speaker 3: remember the one that one thing about this is she

1210
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:23,440
Speaker 3: went out for a bike ride. She went out for

1211
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:26,560
Speaker 3: a bike ride. The bike is found off the side

1212
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:29,160
Speaker 3: of the road. There's no blood trails, you know, all

1213
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:33,120
Speaker 3: nothing ever really married up with a narrative we were

1214
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:37,120
Speaker 3: we were hearing and now they're talking about redressing a body.

1215
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:39,640
Speaker 3: This is this is super bizarre man.

1216
01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:43,800
Speaker 4: They also talked about her her bones had been bleached.

1217
01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:47,960
Speaker 4: Now it's important to know that Barry Morphew, he has

1218
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:50,880
Speaker 4: like a deer farm at one point in Indiana, I think.

1219
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:56,160
Speaker 4: And at this deer farm he would shoot a tranquilizer

1220
01:07:56,680 --> 01:07:59,760
Speaker 4: and it's full of this material called bam okay, and

1221
01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:02,760
Speaker 4: it's like a tranquilizer that and then he would cut

1222
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:05,640
Speaker 4: the antlers off the deer, which by the way, is illegal.

1223
01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:10,600
Speaker 4: And he so they found in the autops her bones

1224
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:14,840
Speaker 4: had been bleached. And I'm wondering, and they found this bam,

1225
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:19,439
Speaker 4: this chemical, this drug in her bone marrow was Do

1226
01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:23,519
Speaker 4: you think he was trying to like hide that specific peace, Joseph.

1227
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:25,160
Speaker 4: Do you think that's why he's doing the bleaching.

1228
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:27,559
Speaker 3: I think I think that we need to be very well,

1229
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:29,479
Speaker 3: we need to see we need to be very careful

1230
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:31,960
Speaker 3: when they're saying bleaching. Okay, yeah, what do you mean

1231
01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:35,400
Speaker 3: for most of us, you know, we're thinking about taking

1232
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:39,960
Speaker 3: chlorox and writing something. Bones. This is a very even

1233
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 3: though it's Colorado in a beautiful area of state, by

1234
01:08:42,360 --> 01:08:46,800
Speaker 3: the way, but very isolated. It's arid there. So if

1235
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:50,479
Speaker 3: you take remains and lay them out in this environment,

1236
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:52,439
Speaker 3: they will be bleached by the sun.

1237
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:53,679
Speaker 2: Oh cool.

1238
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:57,840
Speaker 3: Well, so I think that that's one of the things. Now,

1239
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:01,400
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that they don't have evidence that some

1240
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:03,600
Speaker 3: form of bleach was used, but I think that we

1241
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:04,360
Speaker 3: need to be real.

1242
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:07,559
Speaker 4: The hotel smelled the bleach, right, yeah.

1243
01:09:07,760 --> 01:09:10,959
Speaker 3: Yeah, the hotel there was this incident that had occurred.

1244
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:16,240
Speaker 3: There's been bleached there, but that was right after she

1245
01:09:16,280 --> 01:09:18,840
Speaker 3: had gone missing. So how are you going to get

1246
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:21,640
Speaker 3: the bones to bleach at that point in time or

1247
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:22,880
Speaker 3: affect them with bleach?

1248
01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:25,360
Speaker 6: All right, man, I'm actually I'm new to this case.

1249
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:27,200
Speaker 5: What if you can we don't have much time, But

1250
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:29,680
Speaker 5: what's the importance of the hotel.

1251
01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:32,640
Speaker 4: He was staying he when she went missing, he was

1252
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:36,160
Speaker 4: out of town, working on like a project outside of town,

1253
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:38,120
Speaker 4: and he was staying at a hotel allegedly.

1254
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:41,840
Speaker 2: Allegedly, that's why Alibi said, which is why he was

1255
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:45,400
Speaker 2: I think released. Jump in. If anybody disagrees, call us.

1256
01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:48,840
Speaker 2: But like I think he was dismissed soon after the

1257
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:52,519
Speaker 2: murders happened. This is the husband Barry because like all

1258
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:55,360
Speaker 2: of his stuff checked out and it didn't totally add up.

1259
01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:58,920
Speaker 2: They didn't have enough evidence now years later, even after

1260
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:02,400
Speaker 2: just if you called it body, You've been following this

1261
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:06,040
Speaker 2: for years and years too. He's been brought in claims.

1262
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:08,240
Speaker 2: My friend Linda brought it to my attention. Yeah, because

1263
01:10:08,240 --> 01:10:12,040
Speaker 2: I remember major This is a major case, but also

1264
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:15,280
Speaker 2: a major case of a like enormy a regular person

1265
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:19,320
Speaker 2: who's living a full, happy life, who does hideous things.

1266
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:23,639
Speaker 2: Imagine leaving your wife in the sun to be bleached

1267
01:10:23,720 --> 01:10:24,280
Speaker 2: by the sun.

1268
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 4: I alleged to ask, I need to ask about the

1269
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:34,800
Speaker 4: distinct lack of insects at the at the location. What

1270
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:37,479
Speaker 4: does that tell you, Joseph, like, talk to me about in.

1271
01:10:38,439 --> 01:10:40,559
Speaker 3: One of the no one of them. Is a great

1272
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:42,719
Speaker 3: question because one of the things that we always see

1273
01:10:43,040 --> 01:10:46,200
Speaker 3: at a crime scene where we have a decomposing body

1274
01:10:46,439 --> 01:10:49,720
Speaker 3: are maggot husk, and there's these hard little shells they

1275
01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:52,840
Speaker 3: shild as they're going through their life cycle. According to

1276
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:57,120
Speaker 3: what we're hearing, that's completely absent there. Wow, you generally

1277
01:10:57,120 --> 01:11:00,519
Speaker 3: see them scattered about. You'll see multiple Listen, folks, understand this.

1278
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:04,160
Speaker 3: You'll see multiple generations of these husks because flies are

1279
01:11:04,240 --> 01:11:08,640
Speaker 3: multi generational. They come, they go, they come, and according

1280
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:11,000
Speaker 3: to what the entomologists to say, and there's no evidence

1281
01:11:11,040 --> 01:11:15,160
Speaker 3: of that. And that's that's what's so very striking about

1282
01:11:15,160 --> 01:11:20,040
Speaker 3: this again. That goes to this larger idea that perhaps

1283
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:24,679
Speaker 3: she was deposited here after having been somewhere else.

1284
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:28,120
Speaker 4: Well, and there was no mass of hair either, which

1285
01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:30,839
Speaker 4: is interesting. They said there was no hair mass located.

1286
01:11:31,160 --> 01:11:33,200
Speaker 2: What does that mean? I don't know.

1287
01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:37,120
Speaker 3: Well, deepening upon where they were. You know, I've actually

1288
01:11:37,120 --> 01:11:41,040
Speaker 3: had cases where I've had skeletonal skeletal remains before, where

1289
01:11:41,080 --> 01:11:43,080
Speaker 3: we have found bird nests that are made out of

1290
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:47,360
Speaker 3: human hair because they'll collect the birds will come and

1291
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:50,960
Speaker 3: collect hair. So I wonder, I really wonder if there's

1292
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:54,960
Speaker 3: an initial location where she was, where you may have

1293
01:11:55,080 --> 01:11:58,040
Speaker 3: had this curve where you had evidence of insect activity

1294
01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:01,679
Speaker 3: and also this av thing where they may have come

1295
01:12:01,680 --> 01:12:03,040
Speaker 3: in taken hair away.

1296
01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:07,320
Speaker 4: She might have been exposed to the elements, especially if

1297
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:09,960
Speaker 4: her bones were like sun bleached, right, she could have

1298
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:12,960
Speaker 4: just been exposed to the elements out there. Oh, poor Susan.

1299
01:12:13,200 --> 01:12:17,240
Speaker 3: Poor Susan didn't know about the status of those clothing

1300
01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:19,679
Speaker 3: would very very interesting.

1301
01:12:19,800 --> 01:12:24,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder what the thing was that decided for investigators,

1302
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:29,200
Speaker 2: like what was the missing piece that tipped over her

1303
01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:32,560
Speaker 2: body obviously, but like they suddenly were like, this is

1304
01:12:32,600 --> 01:12:35,040
Speaker 2: the guy, we got him? Were they doing it her body?

1305
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:36,760
Speaker 4: And then when they did the bone marrow testing and

1306
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:39,080
Speaker 4: found that band chemical and realized he used it at

1307
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:40,720
Speaker 4: the deer farm, that was it.

1308
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:41,840
Speaker 6: I think that we.

1309
01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:44,759
Speaker 4: Didn't they know that last time he didn't.

1310
01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:48,160
Speaker 5: Have a body, and it's really really hard to go

1311
01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:52,439
Speaker 5: to trial without a body. Of course gets done, but well,

1312
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:56,080
Speaker 5: I think Sundays with Joseph for maybe my favorite.

1313
01:12:56,439 --> 01:13:00,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, it's like it's not exactly Tuesdays with Maury,

1314
01:13:00,320 --> 01:13:05,759
Speaker 2: it's basically Sundays with Joseph. Different twist, definitely a different twist,

1315
01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:09,080
Speaker 2: but we are learning a lot about life and big

1316
01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:12,880
Speaker 2: ticket items. And honestly, Joseph, the thing that is so

1317
01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:15,280
Speaker 2: exciting about you when we say this about you behind

1318
01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:17,200
Speaker 2: your back all the time, is that you make very

1319
01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:20,040
Speaker 2: scary information, which is important for us to note to

1320
01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:23,439
Speaker 2: organize these kinds of cases in our heads. I think

1321
01:13:23,439 --> 01:13:26,680
Speaker 2: it brings us weird comfort to better understand them. And

1322
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:31,080
Speaker 2: you have a way of describing these very gory details

1323
01:13:31,120 --> 01:13:33,719
Speaker 2: in a way that's not comforting. Isn't the right word,

1324
01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:37,080
Speaker 2: but I guess palpable and it makes us feel like

1325
01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:38,840
Speaker 2: safer in the world because of you.

1326
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:42,000
Speaker 3: Well, it's a slight. My old friend Vinny Politan on

1327
01:13:42,040 --> 01:13:44,599
Speaker 3: Core TV taught me many years ago at ah Lean.

1328
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:48,320
Speaker 3: I just have to teach, and that's that's what I

1329
01:13:48,360 --> 01:13:51,240
Speaker 3: try to do anytime I join you guys. I love

1330
01:13:51,280 --> 01:13:54,080
Speaker 3: to teach. People deserve to be taught. They deserve to

1331
01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:58,240
Speaker 3: be educated. They all do. Everybody. Everybody deserves a shot

1332
01:13:58,280 --> 01:13:58,479
Speaker 3: at that.

1333
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:01,720
Speaker 2: We're talking True Time all the time. We will hear

1334
01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:05,360
Speaker 2: from you tomorrow. Make sure you join us True Crime tonight.

1335
01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:14,680
Speaker 2: Have a great evening.