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Speaker 1: I was petrified. I was petrified. As soon as I

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Speaker 1: could tell that something was dramatically wrong with you, I

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Speaker 1: dropped everything and hobbled across that stage to you and

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Speaker 1: got in your face, yeah, to see where you were

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Speaker 1: and what was going on. And you looked at me,

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Speaker 1: but you didn't see me. You weren't looking at me.

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Speaker 2: Hello everybody, I'm Tdjake's and I want to welcome you

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Speaker 2: to this week's podcast of Next Chapter. Every author knows

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Speaker 2: that the first few chapters make the difference in how

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Speaker 2: the rest of the book goes. If you don't nab

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Speaker 2: the reader in the first few chapters, you're in trouble.

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Speaker 2: Every builder knows that if the house doesn't have a

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Speaker 2: stable foundation, you're also in trouble. Every parent knows that

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Speaker 2: the formative years of your life have a lot to

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Speaker 2: do with how you process, how you think, and how

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Speaker 2: you develop. So we're going to explore formative years. We're

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Speaker 2: going to deal with next chapters. We're going to deal

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Speaker 2: with how there's a carryover between then and now. And

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Speaker 2: I have a guess that's going to blow your mind.

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Speaker 2: She is none other than the first lady of my life.

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Speaker 2: She's the mother of all my children. She is a

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Speaker 2: very powerful, prominent, thinking person that I really enjoy and

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Speaker 2: really really love. Would you welcome Serena Chase Chapter number one,

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Speaker 2: The coal Miner's Daughter. You know, I was thinking when

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Speaker 2: I introduced it like that. I was thinking, in my mind,

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Speaker 2: how do you think being raised a minor's daughter in

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Speaker 2: the hills of West Virginia, in a rural area, and

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Speaker 2: being raised by your aunt and uncle most of your life,

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Speaker 2: how do you think the values that they instilled in

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Speaker 2: you stay with you now or helped you to develop

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Speaker 2: to where you are now? What's left, what's thrown away?

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Speaker 2: What did you have to evolve from? What makes you you?

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Speaker 1: Interesting question? I was looking forward to being interviewed by you.

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Speaker 1: I thought this is going to be fun. I don't

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Speaker 1: think I've been interviewed by you since you sort of

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Speaker 1: proposed so I was. When I think about my beginnings

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Speaker 1: as a coal miner's daughter, I think, somewhere in my

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Speaker 1: heart I remain a coal miner's daughter. Those fundamental community

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Speaker 1: values that were instilled in me, where my neighbors were

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Speaker 1: important to me. My uncle was a coal miner, my

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Speaker 1: daddy was a coal miner. My best friend's fathers were

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Speaker 1: coal miners. My best friends were Cricket, Gracie, and Elizabeth.

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Speaker 1: And in our community there was a white camp and

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Speaker 1: then there was a colored camp. So I was in

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Speaker 1: the color camp. Cricket and Elizabeth were in the white camp,

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Speaker 1: and both of their fathers worked in the coal mines

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Speaker 1: with my uncle. So whenever there was an emergency in

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Speaker 1: the community, all of the women would go toward the

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Speaker 1: coal mine, and the men would be coming out, and

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Speaker 1: all of them would have soot all over their faces.

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Speaker 1: And I couldn't tell my uncle from Gracey's dad or

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth's dad. So I think that those values that were

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Speaker 1: instilled in me in that community remained with me now

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Speaker 1: because I realized that their father was just important to

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Speaker 1: them as my Papa was to me, and so none

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Speaker 1: of us had much. We all ate beans, we all

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Speaker 1: shopped at the company store, we all have the same dresses.

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Speaker 1: So I didn't really really ever think that I was

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Speaker 1: any better or any less than anybody else. And so

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Speaker 1: now seventy years later, I feel that those same fundamental

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Speaker 1: foundational truths are important to me. That I see everyone

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Speaker 1: with the same opportunities, the same tragedies, the same livelihood,

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Speaker 1: the same thing that made me laugh, the same thing

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Speaker 1: that made me cry still makes me laugh for cry.

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Speaker 1: So I think that being raised by them in that

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Speaker 1: community gave me a sense of community within myself that

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Speaker 1: I still seek.

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Speaker 2: You know, that's really interesting to the other of you

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Speaker 2: that don't know what the coal mine's like. When you

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Speaker 2: come out the coal mine, everybody's black. You can't tell

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Speaker 2: one from the other Asian. It doesn't matter what hispanic.

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Speaker 2: Everybody comes out, they're covered with cold dust and they

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Speaker 2: all look the same. And so when my wife talks

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Speaker 2: about that sort of thing, it changes your perspective on

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Speaker 2: how you see people. And to get shut down in

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Speaker 2: the coal mines and the minds cave in, and everybody's

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Speaker 2: out there worried. Everybody's praying, everybody's singing songs, everybody's trying

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Speaker 2: to encourage each other. We faced calamities and disasters together,

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Speaker 2: and I had a lot to do with how we perceive.

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Speaker 2: But let me tell you something. You are a long

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Speaker 2: ways from Kansas now, you know, you're long ways from

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Speaker 2: our Poka, I should say, and you're long ways from

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Speaker 2: the coal mines. And you had to adapt over and

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Speaker 2: over and over again as we got on television as

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Speaker 2: we got interviewed on TVN first and then CBN, and

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Speaker 2: then went to all types of networks, and you found

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Speaker 2: yourself at all types of evening events and ballets and

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Speaker 2: situations like that. How did you flex? Because when we

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Speaker 2: talk to people about next chapters, the big fear that

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Speaker 2: they have is am I ready for what's next? You know?

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Speaker 1: How do I flex? I spend about twenty minutes in

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Speaker 1: the bathroom, hyperventilating and being nervous and sweating, and then

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Speaker 1: I come out and I think, still, foundationally, I'm still

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Speaker 1: the same person, but the opportunities have expanded my horizon

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Speaker 1: and my worldview, and so exposure and opportunity kind of

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Speaker 1: glossed the coal over and she's becoming somewhat of a diamond,

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Speaker 1: somewhat of a diamond, And I think so in the rough,

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Speaker 1: I think, but I do believe that still those fundamental

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Speaker 1: truths gave me the opportunity. I think that if I

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Speaker 1: had been raised without an outhouse in the backyard, you know,

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Speaker 1: I would have come to this thinking, well, you deserve this.

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Speaker 1: But in the back of my mind and in my heart,

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Speaker 1: I feel like, what an opportunity for this coal miner's daughter,

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Speaker 1: And so I find myself trying to encourage other women

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Speaker 1: not to despise small beginnings and not to feel like

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Speaker 1: that that's the end of their story, that the coal

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Speaker 1: can evolve, that you can still have friends in your

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Speaker 1: life that will be concerned about as much as you are.

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Speaker 1: And I find that now as I work with the

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Speaker 1: community of women within our ministry, I find out that

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Speaker 1: we have a common goal. There's a thread and whether

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Speaker 1: we're mothers or we want to be mothers, or if

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Speaker 1: we're grandma's empty nesters, divorce widows, there's a thread of

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Speaker 1: femininity that I like to continue, that little scarlet cord

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Speaker 1: where every woman gets to hold on to one another

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Speaker 1: and don't let her drop. That's how I feel.

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Speaker 2: Well. I think that's a good thing because today some

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Speaker 2: of that femininity is compromised for opportunity. But you have

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Speaker 2: been able to hold on to your femininity in the

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Speaker 2: midst of the opportunities that face you. Some people's sacrifice

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Speaker 2: their femininity to fit in with the good boys club,

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Speaker 2: and they have to sometimes he feel like they have to.

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Speaker 2: But you have managed to hold on to your femininity

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Speaker 2: and be yourself, be your honest self. Even now, even yah.

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Speaker 2: Even until now.

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Speaker 1: I was walking around when we were getting ready for

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Speaker 1: the show this morning, and I thought, yeah, I thought,

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Speaker 1: oh man, I don't want to be on the camera.

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Speaker 2: Even to this day, I forget that about you ever,

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Speaker 2: law because we have been married.

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Speaker 1: Don't forget it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I still forget how nervous you get before I

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Speaker 2: would be the one that had to speak. Okay, and

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Speaker 2: every time before I got up at the pulpit to

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Speaker 2: speaker on the stage or platform, or went to a

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Speaker 2: business meeting, she has to go to the restaurom. Yes,

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Speaker 2: And I thought, what is wrong with her bladder? It

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Speaker 2: never occurred to me that she was nervous for me. Yes,

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Speaker 2: But I've come to know that and I forget it sometimes.

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Speaker 2: But thanks for the reminder.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that comes from the simplicity. There was

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Speaker 2: a drawbridge you had to go across to get to her.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't a drawbridge that's fancy. It was that's a swinging,

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Speaker 1: swinging rope bridge. There you go, draw bridge.

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Speaker 2: With Yeah, drawbridge with have been like a castle. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It was a rope bridge and it was shaken in

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Speaker 2: the middle whind you walked across. I mean, this is

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Speaker 2: country also yeah, and I think there's some of what

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Speaker 2: we had in common. We both started with fairly meager beginnings.

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Speaker 2: I lived in the city by comparison, definitely, but still

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Speaker 2: meager beginnings. No grass in the front yard, no doorbell,

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Speaker 2: screen door torn uh, no air conditioning in the house.

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Speaker 2: We we both that was you know, it was funny.

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Speaker 2: When I look back at it, it sounds poor, but

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Speaker 2: at the time it seemed normal. It was normal because

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Speaker 2: everybody around us like that exactly. Yeah, and I don't

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Speaker 2: think I think it gave you ability, both of us,

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Speaker 2: in ability not only to gravitate toward each other, but

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Speaker 2: not to lose the common touch, indeed, and the accessibility

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Speaker 2: that's necessary to be who we are and do what

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Speaker 2: we do. About Chapter number two, meager beginnings, how do

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Speaker 2: you think now our children were raised half of them

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Speaker 2: were raised in the meager beginnings of our beginnings. In fact,

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Speaker 2: let's go back to our beginnings. Let's go back and

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Speaker 2: talk about how we got together. Don't say too much

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Speaker 2: out kick.

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Speaker 1: I was about to say, Okay, so how did we

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Speaker 1: get together? It sounds very Stalkrish in this century.

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Speaker 2: Yes it does.

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Speaker 1: So you were evangelizing in my city. You were a

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Speaker 1: pastor in another city. But you came about fifty sixty

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Speaker 1: miles to my little city and you were evangelizing, and

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Speaker 1: I was a relatively new convert, and I didn't want

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Speaker 1: to roll up walk up on the Man of God

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Speaker 1: and be considered a heathen. Even though I still had

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Speaker 1: some heathen tendencies. I was so impressed with the fact

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Speaker 1: that your relationship with the Bible and with God was enviable,

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Speaker 1: because as a new convert, my church was very legalistic.

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Speaker 1: They told me what I couldn't wear, what I couldn't do,

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Speaker 1: and all of that. And to me, whatever they said,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't do it. I was like, fine, I just

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Speaker 1: want to be saved. I just don't want to live

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Speaker 1: my life the way I've been living it. And you

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Speaker 1: would come to my city as an evangelist, a young man,

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Speaker 1: and I would think, if God is that real to him,

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Speaker 1: could it be that I could have a better relationship

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Speaker 1: with God? And so I was drawn to your ministry.

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Speaker 1: Little by little, I become more infatuated with your presence.

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Speaker 1: I felt a safety, I felt a security, and so

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Speaker 1: I started writing you these secret power cards. I would

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Speaker 1: go to the store, I would buy secret power cards,

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Speaker 1: and I would be at the post office before midnight

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Speaker 1: every night, so that you would get a card every day. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And so I kept sending them, sending them, sending them

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Speaker 1: and encouraging you. I don't think I was being flirtatious

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Speaker 1: at all, but I think you were intrigued by who

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Speaker 1: could be doing this flirtatious. Never that, never that.

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Speaker 2: Secret power cards are always a little bit flirtation, little

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Speaker 2: hearts and stuff. And I'm out there at the post

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Speaker 2: office box trying to discern. You know, I've always been

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Speaker 2: a little private eye trying to discern and looking at

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Speaker 2: it the postmark and trying to figure out who it was,

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Speaker 2: and didn't know it was you. But the next time

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Speaker 2: I went to Berkeley to speak, I couldn't hardly speak

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Speaker 2: for looking through the crowd trying to see who was

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Speaker 2: giving me the eye. Okay, And you were sitting there

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Speaker 2: with the sweater on and quiet and over in a

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Speaker 2: corner and looking on assuming And I did not know

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Speaker 2: that it was you until your pastor's wife came to me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, my pastor's wife introduced me to you. Yes, But

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Speaker 1: my pastor's wife also came and made me realize that

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Speaker 1: I didn't have to be ashamed of my past and

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Speaker 1: invited me to church. And therefore I got saved. And

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Speaker 1: had I not gotten saved, or if I had not

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Speaker 1: heard her heart about me, then I would not have

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Speaker 1: met you. And so she introduced me. And it was

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Speaker 1: so hilarious because this one next chapter, man said, do

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Speaker 1: you know where a single man could get a home

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Speaker 1: cooked meal?

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Speaker 2: Cook meal?

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Speaker 1: I'm like, what a line? I'm like, no, hook line

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Speaker 1: and sinker here I am. But you know, I said,

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Speaker 1: I'll ask my mom because I couldn't cook. So you

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Speaker 1: came to eat yea, and then you took me to

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Speaker 1: the revival that night with you, and then we went

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Speaker 1: to the pancake house afterwards.

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Speaker 2: And who would have thought forty three years later we

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Speaker 2: would be here empty nesters.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 2: Survived several presidents, Yes, several storms, several terrorist attacks, several adversities,

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Speaker 2: several family scars, several health scared, several surgeries, several funerals.

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Speaker 2: You go through so many things. That's a chapter in

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Speaker 2: your life that that shape inform you and uh may

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Speaker 2: not may not misalign you with your core values, but

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Speaker 2: certainly adds to you an exposure, yes, and an experience

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Speaker 2: that changes your life. What what were one of the

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Speaker 2: experiences that you went through that you think had a

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Speaker 2: great impact on how you see the world.

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Speaker 1: I think we hadn't been married a year, right, and

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Speaker 1: we had this head on car collision, right, And the

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Speaker 1: doctor said that I would never walk again, but and

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Speaker 1: if I did, it would be with a metal brace

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Speaker 1: and a cane for the rest of my life. And

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Speaker 1: he said that in the are without even examining me.

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Speaker 1: And I think that crippling experience broke something inside of

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Speaker 1: me that made me realize that this was a win

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Speaker 1: or lose situation. Either you could have been devastated by

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Speaker 1: the news and felt like I'm too young to be

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Speaker 1: with a cripple and walk out on me, but you

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Speaker 1: did the exact opposite. You sent my mother home and

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Speaker 1: you started taking care of me and feeding me and

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Speaker 1: washing my hair and taking care of me. And then

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Speaker 1: eventually you did not allow me to just lay in

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Speaker 1: my ruins. You started teaching me how to take a step.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I didn't know what I was doing, but I

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Speaker 2: was doing it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: You would take my hands and say take a step,

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Speaker 1: and my foot was like a club and I would

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Speaker 1: just kind of throw it. And then you say, that's good.

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Speaker 1: And then you would say take another one now rest

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Speaker 1: And this was every single day. I feel like that

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Speaker 1: was the pivotal point for me. I thought that if

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Speaker 1: he can see me in this broken, unattractive state and

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Speaker 1: still love me and commit to me, then he's really

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Speaker 1: the one for me.

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Speaker 2: We was married then, so for better or for worse,

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Speaker 2: you was stuck.

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Speaker 1: Do you know people leave one another for less than that,

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Speaker 1: like the garbage Cannis open. So I mean at that

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Speaker 1: you had you saying something important that, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Because people give up so easy. Yes, I think that's

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Speaker 2: the difference between people personalities. Generation's time when the going

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Speaker 2: gets tough, the tough get going.

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Speaker 1: Usually you would hope. So, but there's I think both

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Speaker 1: sides of the corner shiny because if I had just not,

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Speaker 1: if I had resisted your love or made it hard

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Speaker 1: for you to love me, you know, then that would

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Speaker 1: have been a different story altogether. But I was compliant.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to get better. I wanted to get better,

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Speaker 1: and I believed in you. I believe that you could

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Speaker 1: help me get better. And then one there was an

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Speaker 1: occasion coming up where we were supposed to do a

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Speaker 1: processional and I said, well, I won't be able to

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Speaker 1: walk with you, and you said, well, I will wheel

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Speaker 1: you in. So a determined love, steadfast love is rare.

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Speaker 1: It's rare at your age. You were like twenty four

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Speaker 1: twenty thinking, you know, and rare. And it's not that

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Speaker 1: I was the only fish in the sea. It's just

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Speaker 1: that you opted to choose me, and you kind of

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Speaker 1: stuck with me. And I still appreciate you for that,

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Speaker 1: for giving me my walk back. But more than that,

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Speaker 1: I appreciate the fact that you didn't let me give

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Speaker 1: up on myself.

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Speaker 2: I never believe what the doctor said. I never believed it.

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Speaker 2: Not for one moment did I believe you were not

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Speaker 2: going to walk again. And though I had no training,

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Speaker 2: and though I didn't know what I was doing, and

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Speaker 2: though your mother was hot mad when I asked her

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Speaker 2: to go call.

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Speaker 1: Hot mad, she's in heaven, got mad.

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Speaker 2: It's still hot mad. Yeah, but I want. I saw

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Speaker 2: it as an opportunity to prove my love and to

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Speaker 2: allow that love to ferment. It ferments in tough places,

305
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Speaker 2: and I think when we get in tough places, it

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Speaker 2: really tells what you're about. I also think me growing

307
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 2: up taking care of my father, who was a kidney patient,

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00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 2: was a primer that prepared me for the paint of

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Speaker 2: doing this situation. Everything you go through is nothing is wasted.

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Speaker 2: Nothing is wasted, and everything prepares you. I can remember

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Speaker 2: two things. I can remember. One was you sitting in

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Speaker 2: the closet with all of your shoes all around you,

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Speaker 2: crying because you couldn't wear any of them. And she

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Speaker 2: had all these high heel shoes, real high child, and

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Speaker 2: she couldn't wear the shoes and she was all upset.

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Speaker 2: I said, you're gonna wear them again, you know. And

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Speaker 2: the other thing I remember vividly is laying you on

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Speaker 2: the couch with your head hanging over the side of

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Speaker 2: the couch and washing your hair. Yeah. I didn't know

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Speaker 2: whether that was the best way to do it, but

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Speaker 2: it's the best way I could figure out to do it.

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Speaker 1: And who would have thought that washing my hair would

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Speaker 1: have been important at a time like that, But that

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00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 1: lets you know that self care does something for you

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Speaker 1: when you're healing. And that was that wasn't something I

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Speaker 1: wasn't going anywhere but maybe to a doctor's appointment maybe,

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Speaker 1: but you had You were intuitive enough to try to

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Speaker 1: do something to make me feel better about myself.

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Speaker 2: And you still do that, you know, Thank you. It's

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Speaker 2: always been my desire. I know. Yeah, It's always been

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Speaker 2: my desire always. That's something we have in common, though

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Speaker 2: I can't take that off for myself because you are

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Speaker 2: the mother ride or die person. I have it so

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Speaker 2: all my life. Yeah, And every time that I've ever

335
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,360
Speaker 2: been sick, or ever been down, or ever been out,

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00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 2: you have always been right there by my side. You

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00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,120
Speaker 2: weren't like shopping at the mall. And I'll come back

338
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Speaker 2: and see it later. Everything drops with you, everything, everything, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I've learned from you. I've learned from you. I've

340
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Speaker 2: learned more about love from you. Yeah, the way the

341
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,919
Speaker 2: way you express love and the way you handle me

342
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Speaker 2: when I'm down. Even though I did all of that,

343
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Speaker 2: when I did it, I still learned something different from

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Speaker 2: from the way that you love. We love differently, Yeah,

345
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,199
Speaker 2: we love differently, and we have different ways of expressing

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Speaker 2: that love and sharing that love. We have been through

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Speaker 2: a lot of stuff, I think. So your mother got

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Speaker 2: sick as soon as we got to Dallas. Yes, And

349
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Speaker 2: you know, people judge you about what they see on TV.

350
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Speaker 2: So I was doing to get ready, to get ready,

351
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Speaker 2: to get ready thing, and and my ministry was blowing up,

352
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,120
Speaker 2: and I was preaching here and preaching there and there.

353
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Speaker 2: They didn't know that your mother was sick. And then

354
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Speaker 2: she passed away. Just what's devastating because though she joked

355
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 2: about her mother getting after me and having her mother

356
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 2: and I were very close. She generally took outside if

357
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 2: there was an argument. Yes, yeah, yeah, no no no

358
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 2: no, no no no. She was real, real, real close. I

359
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 2: lost her and then two years later lost my own mother.

360
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Speaker 2: So we stood by the graveside as they lowered our parents'

361
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Speaker 2: body in the ground together. The funny thing about that

362
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 2: is I had written woman and are loose and and

363
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 2: the Woman are Loose. There's a chapter call a Table

364
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 2: for twos, and there's a line in it there says.

365
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,919
Speaker 2: One line says love is having somebody standing across the

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Speaker 2: bed from you who is as worried as you are

367
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Speaker 2: about your child. And the other line says marriage is

368
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Speaker 2: choosing somebody's hand you want to hold when they lower

369
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Speaker 2: your parents in the ground.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

371
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we live that, We live that, We are

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Speaker 2: living that. Yeah. When I wrote that, I didn't know.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know what that would be like. When I

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00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 2: you know, you can write something a lot better. You

375
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 2: can live it. When you have to live and you

376
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Speaker 2: actually actually go through it, it does something for you,

377
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 2: and it does something to you, does something with you,

378
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 2: and it does something in you, and it gives you

379
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 2: something that your parents got through decades of time that

380
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 2: you can't always get prematurely about reading the book.

381
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Speaker 1: You will not get it by reading a book. I

382
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 1: think that each episode in our life tease up the

383
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 1: next one, right, I think that each round goes higher

384
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 1: and higher. You know, we are climbing Jacob's ladder. Yeah,

385
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: And I think that if we don't survive this wrong

386
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 1: of the ladder, it'll make the next one a bit

387
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 1: more problematic. And so I think that what we went

388
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: through with my mother, I mean she died in a week, yeah,

389
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 1: I mean, and so that was devastating. And then it

390
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 1: wasn't even a year later that mom, mom Jake's, was

391
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 1: diagnosed with something that took her through a more tedious journey.

392
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: But if my mother hadn't left us so swiftly, then

393
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Speaker 1: I don't think we would have hung on to Mom

394
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Speaker 1: as desperately as we did. And so I think that

395
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,239
Speaker 1: we were teed up. I mean each time it was

396
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 1: teeing up for something different.

397
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 2: You know something else is we had the girls, okay,

398
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 2: and they were taking us to one kind of experience. Yes,

399
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 2: we had us going through another kind of experience. And

400
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 2: then we had our parents who we were losing. And

401
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 2: I was doing woman and our loose. But I had

402
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 2: seen women are lose from a lot of different perspectives.

403
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 2: And when I started doing women and I Lose, I've

404
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 2: been doing it for a while. He kept getting richer

405
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 2: and richer as these different experiences begin to inform me

406
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 2: of the different stages of me having a front row

407
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 2: seat watching these women learn how to walk have babies

408
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 2: in the labor room. I can still hear the sound

409
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 2: of that machine. I will hear it all of my

410
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 2: life and turn it out me telling you it's coming,

411
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 2: it's coming, it's coming. It's gonna be another one. It's

412
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 2: gonna be another one. And you finally turn around and say,

413
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:47,360
Speaker 2: I already know he had spin around like the Exorcist.

414
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,199
Speaker 2: But you know that that notion we're having a baby

415
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 2: is only to a certain degree when it really comes

416
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 2: to the real push and the real pain of it.

417
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 2: You went through that by yourself, and I was there,

418
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,719
Speaker 2: but you felt the pain in a way that I

419
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,919
Speaker 2: didn't feel the pain. But I was there and I

420
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 2: was determined to be there, and all of our children

421
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,199
Speaker 2: were growing On a Sunday, Yes, so I had on

422
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 2: a clergy caller, I was dressed for church. But I

423
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 2: was there, yes, and stayed throughout the whole birthing process.

424
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 2: Chapter number three, Coming Together. How do you think the

425
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 2: trials suttest, Sarah having a baby before she got married,

426
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 2: all the things that happened with each of the children

427
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 2: had at least one calamity that we had to go through.

428
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 2: How do you think that has caused us to grow

429
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,719
Speaker 2: together when most of the times people grew apart.

430
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's because it was us against them.

431
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: Sometimes I think that if we didn't stick together, those rascals,

432
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: let me tell you, they were Rescalians, they would have

433
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 1: taken us out.

434
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 2: Man.

435
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: So I think that I think we after we would

436
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: get on the same page about it, because we would

437
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: have different opinions about it, because of the way I

438
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 1: was raised and the way you were raised, we would

439
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: have different opinions about it. But I think that we

440
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 1: got on the same page and we did what was

441
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 1: best for what we thought was best. Now, children don't

442
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: come with a manual, and so we thought we did

443
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: what was best for them occasion upon occasion. So I

444
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: think that once we got on the page together and

445
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 1: we were able to somehow convince them that we did

446
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: maybe know what we were doing, and we didn't know,

447
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: but maybe you know, we're going to try to do

448
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: the best that we can to get you through this right.

449
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: And I think that's what helped us a whole lot.

450
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 2: You brought up something that made me think about Thanksgiving dinner.

451
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 2: Thanks Togiving dinner before we got married at my mother's

452
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 2: house down in the basement, and my family is rambuckshious.

453
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 2: I mean, we're high fiving each other and calling each

454
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 2: other's names and getting all excited. But we don't mean

455
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,959
Speaker 2: anything about it. It's just how we communicate our family.

456
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 2: And they were sitting there looking at us horrified, like,

457
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 2: oh my god. You know, it's just Adam's family. You know,

458
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 2: they were waiting for it to come around the corner,

459
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 2: you know, with the shaggy hair. The coming together of

460
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,719
Speaker 2: two people is the coming together of two different cultures. Definitely,

461
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 2: even when you're the same skin tone, definitely, your family

462
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 2: has its own culture. Yes, and then out of that

463
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 2: has to emmer a new culture for this new family.

464
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 2: And when you talked about the difference between how you

465
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 2: saw things and I saw things, was in part the

466
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 2: difference in the way we were raised, the culture of

467
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 2: our family, the time, and where we grew up at.

468
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 2: And sometimes I found out that sometimes I was right,

469
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 2: sometimes you were right. And I think it's important no

470
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 2: matter what your first reaction is to what the other

471
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 2: person says, that you go back and play it over

472
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 2: in your mind. There's no guarantee that you're right about everything,

473
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 2: and you have to be willing to see it from

474
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 2: another person's point of view. And sometimes you were exactly right,

475
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 2: and it turned out you were right and I submitted

476
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 2: to that. And there were other times that I was

477
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 2: right and you submitted to that. You do it better

478
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 2: than me. Because even when I said, when I said

479
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 2: at the green table in the kitchen at one Martin

480
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 2: Court and tell you that, I said, Serena, I think

481
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 2: we're leaving, you said leaving. I said, yeah, I can

482
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 2: hear them my preaching. I can hear them I'm preaching.

483
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 2: And that place that keep telling us about in Dallas,

484
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 2: I think we should go look at it. You never

485
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 2: We had just moved in this house for about two years,

486
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,479
Speaker 2: and it was it was the house of our dream.

487
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 2: It it was the city's nightmare, but it was our dream.

488
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 2: She never turned me a back word about leaving that house.

489
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 2: You would have thought we were leaving a tent in

490
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 2: the woods. You started getting that stuff together and packing

491
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 2: that stuff out, and I came down here and put

492
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 2: tape where everything was supposed to go in the house,

493
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 2: and she oversaw them moving it in. There was a

494
00:32:55,840 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 2: certain amount of I don't think we've ever fully let

495
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 2: anything separate us to the point that we were enemies. No,

496
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 2: we disagreed. We had disagreements, not arguments. We sell them argue,

497
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 2: We sell them market.

498
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: Because you talk for a living. Why would I argue

499
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: with somebody that talks.

500
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 2: Listen now, because she has. The thing about my wife

501
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,479
Speaker 2: is she will say something, she will say something soft,

502
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 2: she will say something once. But I had to learn

503
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 2: that she meant it like this, yeah, you know, even

504
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 2: though she said it like that, that's what she really

505
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 2: thought about it. And I had to learn again from

506
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 2: her family culture that the volume and the intensity with

507
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 2: which she spoke did not diminish. The sincerity of what

508
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 2: she spoke. And I think learn each other is a

509
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 2: journey that takes decades, and you simply give up too

510
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 2: soon the marriage. The wedding takes about thirty minutes, but

511
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:13,439
Speaker 2: the marriage takes at least a couple of decades. Yeah,

512
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 2: it takes a couple of decades to really begin to know.

513
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 2: For example, here we are about ready to retire and

514
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 2: she says to me, I'm going back to school. And

515
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 2: she just liked a few credits from having her degree,

516
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 2: and she decided she wanted her degree, and I supported

517
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 2: her going back after her degree. I've never not supported

518
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 2: what she's done. She's never not supported what I've done.

519
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 2: We've always been partners. From Bonnie and Clyde for better

520
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 2: or for words. Yeah, we were Bonny and Clay. You

521
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 2: got somebody in you. She got a lot of Bonnie

522
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:59,399
Speaker 2: at her. You would be surprised, not Bonnie, you would

523
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:05,399
Speaker 2: be some But it was funny because she went on

524
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 2: and she got her degree, and we celebrated her. So

525
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 2: went back to West Virginia State University absolutely and finished

526
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 2: her degree. Mostly to prove to yourself that you made it.

527
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: I think it was during COVID and so I was

528
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: locked up anyway, right, So I went back online. I

529
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 1: got in touch with my professors and you know, they

530
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: were like, yeah, sure you know, and got me all

531
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: signed up. But I think to prove to myself that

532
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: I could complete something that was that significant to me.

533
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 1: At one point in my life, I kind of got

534
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: side railed from my degree because my oldest brother was

535
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 1: murdered and I thought, you're talking about Bonnie. She rose up.

536
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 1: I'm like, wait a minute, you're gonna kill my brother.

537
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 1: And so I just I just lost all thoughts of

538
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: anything else but on this little revenge tour. And so

539
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: when I decided to go back, I think it was

540
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:25,319
Speaker 1: for him. I think it was for me, and I

541
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: think it was to show myself that what I started

542
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:38,399
Speaker 1: was important and completing it made me feel so.

543
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:41,359
Speaker 2: Good. I felt like.

544
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're an alumna and I and you know, we

545
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: contributed to the alumnae Fund, and so I just felt like,

546
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: wvsu owes me nothing.

547
00:36:58,920 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 2: You know.

548
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 1: I went down there and as a freshman and walked

549
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: the campuses. What's so crazy is, ladies and gentlemen, I'm

550
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 1: taking over the next chapter of this podcast. My theybe

551
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 1: you were on the campus the same time that I was.

552
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:18,760
Speaker 2: We were married, we were.

553
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 1: Not married, but he was a freshman. No, you were

554
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 1: younger than me. So I was probably like a junior

555
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: or so for something like that, and you were a freshman.

556
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: We walked on the same sidewalks, we went in the

557
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 1: same buildings. We did not know one another. And then

558
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 1: younger we were at these Laptist.

559
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 2: Canadians together, big choirs.

560
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: In these choirs we.

561
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 2: Have the boys choirs. She's in the choir, I'm in

562
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 2: the choir. We didn't know a jent, I mean.

563
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 1: And so all along the way our pasts were aligned, yes,

564
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: but steps were ordered.

565
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

566
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 1: And then in the fullness of time and a few

567
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 1: secret power cards and a little Pentecostal flirting, I'm sitting

568
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: here with your next chapter.

569
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 2: You know what occurs to me that sometimes you're praying

570
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 2: for something that's right up under your nose.

571
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: You know what. We've got a base in our room

572
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: that says I didn't choose you, my heart did. And

573
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:29,919
Speaker 1: I feel that God knows, he knows what it's going

574
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:34,439
Speaker 1: to take, and he'll keep us all separated until it's

575
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 1: time and then our past collide. Yeah, And so I'm

576
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 1: grateful for that.

577
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:44,839
Speaker 2: You know, the timing of the Lord is everything, and

578
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 2: I think you have to trust that it's not your time.

579
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 2: I'm learning a lot about patience, which is a hard

580
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 2: subject to learn but for me, but to learn how

581
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 2: that everything has its own perfect time, and when you

582
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 2: go through something, you you have to trust that you're

583
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 2: going to come out yep. Chapter number four, Grief. I

584
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 2: want to talk a little bit about grief. You had

585
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 2: a brother that was murdered, your grandmother, of course, passed away,

586
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 2: Your mother passed away, and more recently you had a

587
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 2: brother that got ill and got sick and passed away.

588
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 2: Those were tough things to get through. What was your

589
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 2: self talk that brought you through.

590
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:51,720
Speaker 1: I think my brother who died recently was doing so well.

591
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: I mean, they were going to put him in hospice,

592
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: and he refused and he sprung up, he came out

593
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 1: of it. He was doing so good, and when we

594
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:10,479
Speaker 1: least expected it, he slipped away. And I felt every

595
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 1: time he would get sick. He was in Michigan, and

596
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 1: you would fly me up there and I'd stay for

597
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 1: a week or two, and he'd come up, and then

598
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: he would go back down and I fly back up

599
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 1: and so I'm at home and his wife calls me.

600
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: She said, Serena, he's gone, and I was like, no,

601
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 1: absolutely not. And I thought I did all that I

602
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:47,280
Speaker 1: could to keep him. I did all that I could,

603
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: And so it's grief brings a bit of consolation if

604
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 1: there's no guilt attached to it. And I had done

605
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 1: the absolutely the best that I could to take care

606
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 1: of him, my older brother, it was out of my

607
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,800
Speaker 1: hands completely, so I tried to see about his children.

608
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:15,240
Speaker 1: Now my mother. My mother got sick in a week

609
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 1: and I was out of town, and there were so

610
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: many of naysayers that said that my mother kept asking

611
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,839
Speaker 1: for me and if ser Rita were here, and if

612
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 1: Serita were here, and so guilt consumed me so drastically

613
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: that when I got back in town and I just

614
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 1: walked right past her bed because it was she was

615
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 1: on life support. There was nothing that I could do.

616
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: And so it was grief and it was guilt, and

617
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: I was in such turmoil and self hate and loathing,

618
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,479
Speaker 1: and I didn't know what my other siblings were going

619
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: to say to me. And when the doctor said it's

620
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 1: time for us to make a decision about her on

621
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 1: life support, all of my siblings, two of which were

622
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: older than me, said whatever she says, And I thought,

623
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 1: is she going to make it if I take her off?

624
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: And they said, she's not going to make it. And

625
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:27,479
Speaker 1: so I signed the consent and her numbers went down

626
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 1: and I slid down in the floor. There was so

627
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 1: much guilt.

628
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 2: For me.

629
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 1: For years, four years and years, I wrestled with not

630
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:44,720
Speaker 1: being here for her when she needed me the most,

631
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 1: and it was guilt. Was guilt as a terrible thing.

632
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 1: So the self talk had to be you did all

633
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 1: that you could, You did all that you could, and

634
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 1: nobody could reassure me, nobody could console me. It was

635
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 1: up to me to make that decision to let that go.

636
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 2: And it was difficult, very difficult.

637
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: It was difficult.

638
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 2: But you know the thing that I think a lot

639
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 2: of people don't take into consideration. They allowed one moment,

640
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 2: or one weekend, or one hamsand with Joe, one cheese

641
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 2: soup to define a whole relationship. You and your mother

642
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 2: went everywhere together, We did everything together. You know.

643
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:40,359
Speaker 1: She was so surprised when we moved to Texas that

644
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 1: we were bringing her with us. Yeah, And so I thought,

645
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,359
Speaker 1: maybe if I hadn't brought her to Texas, and then

646
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 1: I thought she would not have had it because she

647
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: loved her grandchildren. No, so I thought I had to

648
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 1: redefine our relationship. I really had to redefine our relationship

649
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 1: because that was my girl. Oh my god, that was

650
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 1: my girl, and she just slipped out, you know.

651
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 2: And the thing that people don't realize is that we

652
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 2: are people. That we have the same kind of problems

653
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 2: that you have, that we have the same kind of

654
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 2: disasters that you have. We have the same kind of

655
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 2: emotions that you have. Whether you see us on TV

656
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,839
Speaker 2: or see us on social media, whether you're listening at

657
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 2: this podcast. You might even send it to somebody who's

658
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 2: going through a devastating grief where you have more questions

659
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 2: than you have answers. I tell people, don't try to

660
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 2: understand it, try to survive it.

661
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: That's true. That's true.

662
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 2: It's not intellectual. No, you're in a war and you

663
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 2: have to survive it. And survival starts with what you

664
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 2: tell yourself about absolutely.

665
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:05,240
Speaker 1: And then grief doesn't mean that someone expires or dies.

666
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:11,839
Speaker 1: Sometimes grief is a divorce, so it's a breakup. Teenager's

667
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 1: heartbreaks and grief and they feel like that they can't

668
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 1: survive it. And grief comes in many forms, but the

669
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 1: self talk and surrounding yourself with people that will feed

670
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: you the right language for your emotions is so important.

671
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it could. Grief can be I lost my house,

672
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:38,240
Speaker 2: I lost my job, anything. You know, if you define

673
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 2: yourself by something and you lose it, you mourn for

674
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 2: it absolutely. And sometimes you don't get the recognition like

675
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 2: you do when it's a person.

676
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 1: That's true, and when.

677
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 2: People don't recognize that that devastated you in a way

678
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 2: that you may have PTSD behind something that you lost

679
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 2: and not really beginning to help the therapy, the counseling

680
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 2: that you need and be self medicating. And everybody's talking

681
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:05,840
Speaker 2: about how you're self medicating, but they don't know the

682
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 2: root of the problem is rooted in some area where

683
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 2: you lost something, where your manhood or your womanhood is

684
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 2: compromised and you feel like, you know, am I really

685
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 2: a man? I lost the house, I lost the car,

686
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 2: lost a job. They said this about me, they said

687
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 2: that about me, All that kind of stuff. Flush all

688
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:29,399
Speaker 2: that stuff out of you. If it takes a month,

689
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 2: if it takes two months, if it takes three months,

690
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 2: if it takes crime, if it takes balling up in

691
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 2: or not, you got to get past that because there

692
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 2: is something on the other side of grief, Yes, And

693
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 2: you have to believe. You have to keep believing that

694
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 2: there is something on the other side of your pain,

695
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 2: no matter what the stimuli is. There's something on the

696
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 2: other side of your pain, or you wouldn't be going

697
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 2: through what you're going through. And I think that's a

698
00:46:56,200 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 2: very very important thing. Chapter number five, the Limelight, Let

699
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 2: me as you change subjects a minute and ask you this,

700
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 2: How did you handle me being in the limelight, whether

701
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 2: it was woman I would lose, or mega fests or

702
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 2: us going to the White House innumerable times? Was that?

703
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 2: How was that for you?

704
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: Well, after a few minutes in the restroom along the way,

705
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 1: I would come out. I would come out like, you know,

706
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:39,399
Speaker 1: that's my boy, you go boy that kind of thing,

707
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 1: and chew you on. But I also realized that with

708
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:53,440
Speaker 1: this amount of exposure, light comes heat, comes heat. And

709
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:59,800
Speaker 1: so there's something that about all of this fear that

710
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 1: makes me really really nervous because it's such an invasion

711
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 1: of privacy that you're trying to help people and you're

712
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 1: laying out your pearls. You know you're giving them your heart,

713
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 1: and you tell me sometimes I'm a bit too transparent,

714
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:22,720
Speaker 1: but I'm giving you my heart. I'm sharing my story.

715
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 1: This is my life and this is our life. And

716
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 1: I feel like with that exposure, some people shouldn't have

717
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: that much exposure to us, or have that much access

718
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 1: to us. And so I'm not the one that's going

719
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 1: to run and jump in front of a camera. I'm

720
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 1: not the one that's going to jump and grab a

721
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: mic and then be scrutinized by millions.

722
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:53,279
Speaker 2: I don't like it.

723
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 1: I don't know and they don't know me. Well they

724
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 1: know what I give them, so and I feel like

725
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 1: I'm giving you my heart. Dude, So why are you

726
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:12,359
Speaker 1: talking about whether the lace is showing on my wig

727
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:18,320
Speaker 1: or if my makeup is not beat or if my

728
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 1: nails aren't done. We're trying to help you. It's not

729
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 1: what we look like, it's who we are giving you ourselves.

730
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: Accept or reject, but don't criticize until you've walked a

731
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 1: mile in my shoes. And that kind of makes me

732
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:41,359
Speaker 1: a little bothered. That's when Bonnie rises up. Don't talk

733
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 1: about my husband, don't talk about my children, don't talk

734
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 1: about my staff, don't talk about anything that is precious

735
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:55,799
Speaker 1: to me. I have a very close circle. I don't

736
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 1: have a lot of friends. I'm not going to be

737
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 1: hanging out with the girls on a girl trip unless

738
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:05,720
Speaker 1: it's my daughter's. I don't roll like that. My family

739
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 1: and my it's everything to me. And if you say

740
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 1: anything to about them, whether they're drunk or sober, it

741
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 1: doesn't matter to me. That's those are my people. And

742
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,359
Speaker 1: so when you're up there on the stage and doing

743
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 1: your thing, I'm watching the people, not as much as

744
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 1: your mom toy. You remember how mom would turn around.

745
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 1: Mom would turn around from the stage walk and watch

746
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 1: the congregation, and I thought, it's it's But I watch,

747
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 1: and I have somewhat of a discerning spirit, and so

748
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 1: I can kind of tell who's with you and who's

749
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:49,800
Speaker 1: not with you, that sort of thing. But I just

750
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 1: don't like the fact the feedback that you have to

751
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 1: get back, the fall out that it comes with it.

752
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 2: And especially now with technology where they can make pictures,

753
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:05,839
Speaker 2: they can make movies, they can say anything they want

754
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 2: to about you without consequence, and a lot of times,

755
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,399
Speaker 2: yes you can sue them, but it's hard to sue

756
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:18,359
Speaker 2: somebody who doesn't have anything. So after a while, your

757
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 2: attorney's bills are more than any recompense you get, and

758
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 2: you just you just walk away from it, set to

759
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 2: ignore it. Yeah, Yeah, it's hard. It's hard for me

760
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 2: because I wanted to take you.

761
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 1: That's very hard. That's very hard. But I guess to

762
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 1: who much is given.

763
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 2: Much as much required. And it's biblical. I mean, they

764
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 2: said Jesus was me as above. They accused him of

765
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 2: everything imaginable, and I'm not comparing myself Jesus. But that's

766
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 2: the kind of thing you get. But I find that

767
00:51:56,920 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 2: the comments of the people is a reflection of how

768
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:04,840
Speaker 2: they think or don't or can't. Yeah, it's not a

769
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 2: reflection of who I am. It's a reflection of who

770
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 2: they are and what they value and what they would

771
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:15,760
Speaker 2: do if they were in my situation. They don't always

772
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 2: understand that you're always in the light. With the moment

773
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:24,399
Speaker 2: you drive out your driveway, you are in the light.

774
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 2: And that's hard on your children. It's unfair to your

775
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:32,359
Speaker 2: children because they didn't pick this life. No, but they

776
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 2: have to live with this life and they have to

777
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 2: grow up in the spotlight and they're just like your children.

778
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 2: They grow up right, they grow up wrong. They do

779
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 2: things you're worried about. They do things you don't approve of.

780
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 2: They and that's part of growing up. Yep. And people

781
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,800
Speaker 2: can be so cooel I am amazed at the things

782
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 2: people can say in the comments that have nothing to

783
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,839
Speaker 2: do with the message, nothing to do with what you're

784
00:52:57,000 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 2: doing for the lord, nothing to do with feeding the

785
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 2: people that are hungry or home, nothing to do with

786
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 2: clothing the neck and nothing. And you're doing that and

787
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:08,720
Speaker 2: that's what the picture is. And below they're talking about

788
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 2: look like you're gaining weight, you know. I mean, just

789
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 2: just your mind is it is their mind? It's their mind.

790
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 2: It's their mind.

791
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 1: I think of that, yeah, because I just think social

792
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:22,920
Speaker 1: media is not very social.

793
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,760
Speaker 2: No, it's their mind. It's their mind. Whether it's hatred,

794
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 2: whether it's jealousy, whether it's envy. Uh, it's people speak

795
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:36,800
Speaker 2: on the level that they think. And it's impossible to

796
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 2: speak on a higher level than you think. For for

797
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 2: if you think down here, you can't talk up here.

798
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:50,240
Speaker 2: So if you have an intelligent conversation, they'll pick out something,

799
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 2: even if they're not cruel, they'll pick out something like,

800
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 2: you know, I love that skirt, and you'll be talking

801
00:53:57,160 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 2: about how to have a lung replace and they're talking

802
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:05,799
Speaker 2: about your skirt. You know. Uh. People people just think

803
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,719
Speaker 2: on the level that they think. And you you, if

804
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,759
Speaker 2: you're going to survive it, you cannot let them in.

805
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:16,759
Speaker 2: You cannot put your thermostat in their room. Yes, that's

806
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:19,239
Speaker 2: the only way to do it. And you have to

807
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 2: get where you don't care. It hurts, but you have

808
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 2: to get where you don't care. Now it hurts worse

809
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 2: to when it's your kids. Man, it's dangerous where it

810
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 2: takes you at that point because I'm very protective and

811
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:37,879
Speaker 2: she's very protective. But we have gone through a lot

812
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:40,800
Speaker 2: of things together and and do it. And that's what

813
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 2: makes the anniversaries so special, yes, because they represent not

814
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:51,840
Speaker 2: how long we endued each other, but how many milestones

815
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:55,560
Speaker 2: we crossed over, how many how many times, how many

816
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 2: chances we had to die.

817
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 1: And then to think that we've been together longer than

818
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:03,840
Speaker 1: we've been alive for a part, Yeah.

819
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 2: You know, longer than we've been with our parents. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah,

820
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:11,879
Speaker 2: I've been with you longer than i've been with my mother. Yeah. Yeah,

821
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 2: that's that's just that's just crazy. Chapter number six, health scare.

822
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:25,360
Speaker 2: I had a health scare. Yeah, And I'm gonna tell it,

823
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:27,799
Speaker 2: and then I want you to tell it from your perspective,

824
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:31,800
Speaker 2: because what I'm learning is and a family, a family

825
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:34,800
Speaker 2: can experience the same thing, but they don't experience the

826
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 2: same thing. It can be the same event, but it's

827
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 2: not the same event. I'm preaching, I'm fine, crazy like

828
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:46,919
Speaker 2: a fox. I'm going at it with everything. I got,

829
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 2: got down to the end of the message and sat

830
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 2: down and just collapsed. I didn't have a pain, I

831
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 2: didn't have a chest pain. I didn't sit down because

832
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:04,880
Speaker 2: I was tired. I just sat down, went to sleep.

833
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 2: And as soon as they realized was see I had

834
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,800
Speaker 2: been up under so much pressure, not just from the

835
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 2: attacks and the disinformation, social media attacks and the misinformation,

836
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:20,440
Speaker 2: not that that's just part you. So my wife had

837
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:24,319
Speaker 2: had knee surgery while that was going on. She had

838
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 2: had knee surgery and knee replacement, and so she's learning

839
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 2: how to walk, trying to get up on her feet again.

840
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 2: There were all kinds of things that were happening. She

841
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:38,920
Speaker 2: had lost her brother, My brother had had kidney failure.

842
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 2: All of those things were happening in at the same time,

843
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 2: and I think it was all too much. One thing, yeah,

844
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:52,879
Speaker 2: but five six things. It was too much. And I'm

845
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:56,319
Speaker 2: not a person who knows when it's too much. That's

846
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 2: another thing. I'm not a person who knows when it's

847
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 2: too much. I will just keep going and pushing and

848
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:08,960
Speaker 2: pushing and pushing through. Yes, yes, I just pushed through.

849
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:12,320
Speaker 2: I was raised that way. I was raised in a

850
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 2: home that that that was required and expected of you.

851
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 2: I had to push through. My father had kidney failure.

852
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 2: I had to push through. He was running the business.

853
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:24,960
Speaker 2: I had to push through. I had to make payroll

854
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 2: by catching the bus and going down there to pay

855
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 2: his staff. I was taught to be responsible, and so

856
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 2: I gave out and and she came running across that

857
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 2: stage for the first time, with no crutches, no cane,

858
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 2: no nothing. She came to me, What was that like

859
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 2: for you?

860
00:57:51,880 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 1: Horrifying? I was petrified. I was petrified, as Ice could

861
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 1: tell that something was dramatically wrong with you. I dropped

862
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:15,919
Speaker 1: everything and hobbled across that stage to you and got

863
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 1: in your face, Yeah, to see where you were and

864
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:23,560
Speaker 1: what was going on. And you looked at me. But

865
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 1: you didn't see me. You weren't looking at me. Yeah,

866
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:31,439
Speaker 1: you were not looking at me. And I locked down.

867
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:35,640
Speaker 1: When we go through crisis, I go inside the storm

868
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 1: shelter that's in my heart, and I close down everything

869
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 1: I let know. There's no access to me whatsoever. All

870
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 1: I am is razor focused. And I thought that this

871
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 1: isn't good. No, and I was going in and out,

872
00:58:58,000 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 1: this isn't good.

873
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:05,080
Speaker 2: I was in a really bad place medically. I was

874
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 2: in a bad place, yes, but I was protected from

875
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:14,880
Speaker 2: pain bye by God himself. I didn't I don't remember

876
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 2: a lot of things that happened behind stage and so forth.

877
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 2: So this joker right.

878
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 1: Here, very respectfully, joker.

879
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:29,120
Speaker 2: Missus joker first lady, Yes, queen.

880
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 1: Joker, Queen Jokers.

881
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 2: We go out there and they're putting me in the ambulance, okay,

882
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 2: And she comes over to say last words to me

883
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:42,520
Speaker 2: before they zip me away in the ambulance, to have

884
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 2: I had had a major heart attack. I didn't know it.

885
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:50,920
Speaker 2: I knew something was wrong. Uh. And she comes over

886
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:52,560
Speaker 2: there to say something to me. I thought she was

887
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 2: gonna quote a scripture pray.

888
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 1: Yes, because I'm deep a mischievous.

889
00:59:56,200 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she says, Negro, if you die, I'm gonna

890
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:05,880
Speaker 2: kill you. And I started, and here we are. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

891
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 2: I started. I burst out. I burst out. Happened, and

892
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:15,040
Speaker 2: they were on me on into the ambulance, and I

893
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:19,000
Speaker 2: kept thinking to myself that she realized how crazy that is.

894
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 2: If I died, whether am I gonna care whether you

895
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:24,640
Speaker 2: would kill me or not? She said, if you die,

896
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:27,560
Speaker 2: I'm gonna kill you. That's the last thing she can say.

897
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:33,120
Speaker 2: There all yeah, and I'm here, Lord, Yeah, I'm here,

898
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:40,320
Speaker 2: I'm here, I'm here. Yeah, it's you laughed me to death.

899
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:43,960
Speaker 2: I was. I was in there, they were, they were

900
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:46,640
Speaker 2: putting all this stuff on my chest and I was laughing.

901
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 2: I would laughing because of all the things that I

902
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:52,120
Speaker 2: expected her to say, that was not one of them.

903
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 2: And I paraphrased it a little bit, but it was.

904
01:00:55,880 --> 01:01:07,160
Speaker 2: It was hilarious. Yeah, okay, be fine, she's crazy. I

905
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:13,280
Speaker 2: also know about you that when something's really bad, you

906
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 2: look up. I learned that about it. Yeah. I will

907
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:24,960
Speaker 2: want reaction, and she will give you nothing none, There

908
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 2: is no reaction. She turns into a mannequin. Yes, but

909
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:32,760
Speaker 2: that just means that she is so worried and so

910
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:37,960
Speaker 2: concerned that she has locked herself in. And I had

911
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 2: to come to under everybody out and everybody out, everybody out,

912
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:45,720
Speaker 2: no access, you're not getting in. You have to learn

913
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:49,880
Speaker 2: how to live together. Yes, you have to learn how

914
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:53,480
Speaker 2: to understand dwell according to knowledge. And I think that

915
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:56,600
Speaker 2: takes time and years. And what was true when you

916
01:01:56,720 --> 01:02:00,240
Speaker 2: were twenty is not true when you're forty, and when

917
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:03,560
Speaker 2: it changes when you're sixty, and hopefully when it gets

918
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:08,080
Speaker 2: to eighty, it's going to be different. Because these are chapters, yes,

919
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:14,160
Speaker 2: their next chapters, and sometimes you can influence how the

920
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:19,120
Speaker 2: next chapter goes by learning the lesson from the previous

921
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:24,080
Speaker 2: chapter too. And maybe you're facing a next chapter in

922
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:29,320
Speaker 2: your life. And they can be so scary, even when

923
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:33,920
Speaker 2: it's good stuff, it can be so scary. Am I

924
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:36,400
Speaker 2: worthy of it? What all comes with it? That I

925
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:42,320
Speaker 2: don't see? How cruel people are, especially right now. Next

926
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:47,440
Speaker 2: chapters can be horrifying. You describe your feeling as horrifying

927
01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 2: when I had that heart attack. Sometimes to walk into

928
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:55,840
Speaker 2: an office building or to do an interview, or to

929
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 2: apply for a loan, or to go into the hospital

930
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:05,440
Speaker 2: to see it child has got cancer. It's just horrified.

931
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:10,400
Speaker 1: And we've walked so many people through chapters in their lives,

932
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:15,480
Speaker 1: and sometimes I think that we were allowed to go first,

933
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 1: to let them know that there's hope on the other side.

934
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:25,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I preached my first funeral when I was nineteen. Yes,

935
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 2: but I was way over around forty before I understood

936
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:37,680
Speaker 2: what that pain felt like on the other side of

937
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:38,360
Speaker 2: the casket.

938
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 1: And what's interesting to me as our age. Recently, they

939
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:48,480
Speaker 1: buried my neighbor that I've known since I was six

940
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:51,480
Speaker 1: months older. She's known me. She was one hundred and

941
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:57,560
Speaker 1: five years old and she passed away. And so as

942
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:01,960
Speaker 1: I get older, I realized that I no longer have

943
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:06,720
Speaker 1: a tree to shade me, and so I have to

944
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:10,600
Speaker 1: become that shade to other people. And so I'm taking

945
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:15,440
Speaker 1: the chapters in my life and trying to become as

946
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:21,800
Speaker 1: leafy and fruity as possible because people can eat off

947
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:22,920
Speaker 1: of my branches.

948
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:29,680
Speaker 2: That's beautifully said for one day, And the second thing is,

949
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:34,400
Speaker 2: don't be so quick to chop down your shade tree.

950
01:04:36,160 --> 01:04:42,440
Speaker 2: You would be shocked how much good parents, not perfect parents,

951
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:46,800
Speaker 2: good parents shade you from a lot of times. You

952
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:51,040
Speaker 2: don't really miss what you got to this goar and

953
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:54,720
Speaker 2: you have to do everything yourself that you didn't even

954
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:57,920
Speaker 2: know was the thing because they shaded you from it.

955
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:02,400
Speaker 2: They shaved you for so many things in your life.

956
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:08,600
Speaker 2: And I think that to some degree we have given

957
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:09,520
Speaker 2: each other shade.

958
01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 1: Absolutely.

959
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:11,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

960
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:12,480
Speaker 1: And fruit.

961
01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:17,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and fruit were much much fruit, A lot of fruit.

962
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:22,800
Speaker 2: No more fruit. We had enough fruit. Jesus. I hope

963
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 2: you have enjoyed this opportunity for us to come into

964
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:31,160
Speaker 2: your space and into your life. And hopefully there's a

965
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:34,720
Speaker 2: podcast playing in your ear, and there's one playing in

966
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 2: your head. As you look at the situations in your

967
01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:40,360
Speaker 2: life and begin to think about what you've had to

968
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:43,840
Speaker 2: face or what you're facing right now, maybe you can

969
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:47,560
Speaker 2: tweak how you're responding to it and how you're handling it.

970
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:51,439
Speaker 2: So whether you're in the treadmill or whether you're going

971
01:05:51,560 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 2: for walk listening, or whether you're listening in your car

972
01:05:55,040 --> 01:06:01,080
Speaker 2: on a podcast, it doesn't matter where you are, who

973
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:04,760
Speaker 2: you are and what you are, and how you allow

974
01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:09,240
Speaker 2: that to infiltrate the very depths of your being, because

975
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:15,880
Speaker 2: even doing this costs something to share our lives with you,

976
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:21,440
Speaker 2: outside of just smiling and a camera on stage, to

977
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:26,800
Speaker 2: be asked to share what makes the blue stick. You know,

978
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:32,040
Speaker 2: that's that's what they're asking about. Double sided tate, Okay,

979
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:37,640
Speaker 2: double sided take whatever it is. It has held up

980
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:43,480
Speaker 2: for forty three years, for this year, for this year,

981
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:49,240
Speaker 2: forty shit. I want credit for every year, maybe every year. Yeah,

982
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 2: and this this is a special year to me. It

983
01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:57,680
Speaker 2: is a year of my fiftieth year in ministry yep,

984
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:03,600
Speaker 2: and a thirty years past during the Potter's House, I

985
01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:09,160
Speaker 2: spent twenty years preaching in West Virginia. I can't believe.

986
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 2: I cannot believe. That's one thing we got to talk

987
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:17,440
Speaker 2: real quick about before we go. I cannot believe the

988
01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:23,360
Speaker 2: people that are leaving out of our generation because it

989
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:26,760
Speaker 2: happened so fast, and I feel like obligated to one

990
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:30,919
Speaker 2: younger men and women. You don't have time to be mad.

991
01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:35,440
Speaker 2: You don't have time to be stubborn. You don't have

992
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:39,160
Speaker 2: time to be unforgiving. You don't have time to worry

993
01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:45,280
Speaker 2: about petty people. This thing grows quick. You don't bleek

994
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:50,840
Speaker 2: and see wrinkles and gray hair and knees, sag and

995
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:55,520
Speaker 2: hip replacement everything. You don't have time to put that

996
01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:58,520
Speaker 2: kind of negative energy into somebody that even if you

997
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:01,320
Speaker 2: change their mind, they're gonna be who they're going to be.

998
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:05,000
Speaker 2: You don't have time. So with the time that you

999
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:08,520
Speaker 2: have to the best of your ability. I don't care

1000
01:08:08,560 --> 01:08:11,360
Speaker 2: if it's eating a hot apple pie for McDonald's and

1001
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:14,480
Speaker 2: putting the candle on it. Find a way to celebrate

1002
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:17,760
Speaker 2: your life and your victories and your triumphs, and don't

1003
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:21,679
Speaker 2: be so busy trying to prove something to your neighbors

1004
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:27,439
Speaker 2: that you that you don't celebrate yourself. Chapter number seven,

1005
01:08:28,400 --> 01:08:29,639
Speaker 2: our next chapter.

1006
01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:37,400
Speaker 1: Since we're empty nesters, Okay, what do you see happening

1007
01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:41,200
Speaker 1: for us in our marriage in this next chapter?

1008
01:08:42,280 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 2: I would like to rediscover dating again. I like it.

1009
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:54,120
Speaker 2: I think that would be wonderful while we still have mobility, yes,

1010
01:08:54,400 --> 01:09:04,599
Speaker 2: and rightness of mind to travel some, to enjoy life

1011
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:10,599
Speaker 2: and fruit and not always be the fixer for everybody's problem,

1012
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 2: you know, I'd like that. I would like very much

1013
01:09:17,240 --> 01:09:26,879
Speaker 2: for us to celebrate the winds. Yes, to even celebrate

1014
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:31,280
Speaker 2: that we survived the losses. That's a different kind of

1015
01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:35,400
Speaker 2: celebration that we had losses and we made it. We

1016
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 2: still made it. I would like to have a lot

1017
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 2: more time like we had sitting out on the linine

1018
01:09:42,400 --> 01:09:45,519
Speaker 2: when we got to laugh and talking about can you

1019
01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:48,280
Speaker 2: believe we made it all the way to hear that

1020
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:54,639
Speaker 2: that kind of thing would mean a lot. I want

1021
01:09:54,720 --> 01:09:57,320
Speaker 2: to talk a little bit because you started a brand,

1022
01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:03,040
Speaker 2: started a company, start producing homewares, and I know how

1023
01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:07,639
Speaker 2: big you are on home and candles and all sorts

1024
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:11,840
Speaker 2: of things that you started making products that are available

1025
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:15,880
Speaker 2: and even sneaking them in my suitcase from time to

1026
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:18,680
Speaker 2: time to time as I travel down the road, so

1027
01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:21,160
Speaker 2: I have a little piece of home on the road.

1028
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:24,800
Speaker 2: Tell us about your company and what your aspirations are

1029
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:25,639
Speaker 2: for your company.

1030
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:29,639
Speaker 1: Well, I think the premises of the company was always

1031
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:34,160
Speaker 1: the fact that home is important to me and making

1032
01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:37,000
Speaker 1: a home, making a house at home is very important

1033
01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:40,120
Speaker 1: to me. And so home comes with the things that

1034
01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:44,719
Speaker 1: you see, you touch, you here, you smell, you taste,

1035
01:10:45,160 --> 01:10:48,439
Speaker 1: All of your senses are exercised by the things that

1036
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:53,400
Speaker 1: you feel at home. And so my home line touches

1037
01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:57,040
Speaker 1: all of those points. Those are touch points for everybody.

1038
01:10:57,160 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 1: I feel like that you need to create a sacred space,

1039
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:02,800
Speaker 1: that you are a sacred space, and you need to

1040
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:07,160
Speaker 1: surround yourself with things that remind you of the importance

1041
01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:12,960
Speaker 1: of having a sacred, quiet, calm, peaceful space, even if

1042
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:16,599
Speaker 1: you're traveling. So it started with me putting a candle

1043
01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:19,479
Speaker 1: in your bag so that when you get to your hotel,

1044
01:11:19,600 --> 01:11:21,960
Speaker 1: you could light a candle and it would smell like

1045
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:26,280
Speaker 1: home because you traveled so much. So and then my

1046
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:29,479
Speaker 1: kids will say things like that smells like mommy. You

1047
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:32,280
Speaker 1: know they buy me cologne. They say that smells like mommy.

1048
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:35,960
Speaker 1: It looks like mommy. Something that reminds you that you

1049
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:39,880
Speaker 1: belong and that you're a hole. And so that's what

1050
01:11:40,080 --> 01:11:43,360
Speaker 1: the premise of Serena Jake's Home is for me. I

1051
01:11:43,479 --> 01:11:46,120
Speaker 1: feel that that's what I bring to our brand. I

1052
01:11:46,280 --> 01:11:51,160
Speaker 1: feel that, and I'm not boasting and correct me or

1053
01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:54,200
Speaker 1: I can stand corrected, but it won't matter. I feel

1054
01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:57,680
Speaker 1: that home is what I brought to our family. I

1055
01:11:58,040 --> 01:12:01,200
Speaker 1: think that you had all over the world you had

1056
01:12:01,280 --> 01:12:04,960
Speaker 1: to go, but you had a base absolutely, and that

1057
01:12:05,160 --> 01:12:08,120
Speaker 1: when you got home I wanted to make certain that

1058
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:13,240
Speaker 1: you were home. And so that's what I do.

1059
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:19,320
Speaker 2: I completely agree. I think a great deal of our

1060
01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:27,280
Speaker 2: accomplishment in making it. I could get the house, you

1061
01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:32,599
Speaker 2: turned it into a home. I can make the children,

1062
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:38,200
Speaker 2: but I can never be their mother, their nurturer. I

1063
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:41,040
Speaker 2: have since learned that her father has a significant role

1064
01:12:41,240 --> 01:12:46,880
Speaker 2: play as well. I didn't always know that. You know,

1065
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:50,000
Speaker 2: you learned that as you go along, and I think

1066
01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:53,320
Speaker 2: I didn't know it because my father, for the most part,

1067
01:12:54,040 --> 01:12:56,080
Speaker 2: though he was home and worked all the time, he

1068
01:12:56,240 --> 01:13:00,639
Speaker 2: didn't focus on mama. Took care of his daddy, took

1069
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:04,559
Speaker 2: care the bills, and that was our routine growing up.

1070
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:09,200
Speaker 2: So understanding all of that, I give all of that

1071
01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:14,479
Speaker 2: to you. You keep us together, you explaining one to

1072
01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:20,280
Speaker 2: the other, mediate fights and storms and disagreements and all

1073
01:13:20,360 --> 01:13:24,679
Speaker 2: of that is the advantage of having you in the house.

1074
01:13:24,760 --> 01:13:28,360
Speaker 2: And I don't know how we could do it without.

1075
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 1: You, okay, because I'm not going anywhere.

1076
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:37,639
Speaker 2: Chapter number eight, adapting the Hardship.

1077
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:44,120
Speaker 1: When we first got married, you had this fantastic job

1078
01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:48,240
Speaker 1: and then the plant closed, and I can remember how

1079
01:13:48,360 --> 01:13:54,160
Speaker 1: sad you were. But do you think that those early

1080
01:13:54,560 --> 01:13:58,480
Speaker 1: scrapping days, how did that? I knew that it affected

1081
01:13:58,600 --> 01:14:03,799
Speaker 1: you emotionally, but how did it affect you moving forward?

1082
01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:06,160
Speaker 1: Did you think it built your tenacity?

1083
01:14:07,960 --> 01:14:10,720
Speaker 2: It was. I felt like it was my responsibility to

1084
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:14,439
Speaker 2: keep the family afloat. That's what I'm supposed to do,

1085
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:18,240
Speaker 2: and they took away the tool I was doing it with,

1086
01:14:19,320 --> 01:14:23,479
Speaker 2: and it made me feel less than a man, and

1087
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:29,320
Speaker 2: it worried me to death. Even though you never worried

1088
01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:31,800
Speaker 2: me about it. You never put demands on me. You

1089
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:36,560
Speaker 2: never said the lights are off and I'm out, you

1090
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:39,680
Speaker 2: know we, I mean, we had a real bad The

1091
01:14:39,760 --> 01:14:43,720
Speaker 2: lights was out, the water was all one time, you know,

1092
01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:48,040
Speaker 2: all the utilities were off, the phone was off. Had

1093
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:50,080
Speaker 2: to go to the neighbor's house to use the phone.

1094
01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:54,840
Speaker 2: Because once we started falling, I couldn't get up. I

1095
01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:57,559
Speaker 2: couldn't get up. So I started. I got a lawnmower,

1096
01:14:57,680 --> 01:15:01,040
Speaker 2: started cutting grasp and got a the guys to cut

1097
01:15:01,160 --> 01:15:04,360
Speaker 2: grass with me, and started a lawnmower company. Because I

1098
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:07,719
Speaker 2: was determined to just sit around the house and watch TV.

1099
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:11,439
Speaker 2: I started digging ditches and putting in gas lines for

1100
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:14,280
Speaker 2: people that had gas leaks, trying to make things happen.

1101
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:18,880
Speaker 2: And during that time, we would take coke bottles or

1102
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:21,800
Speaker 2: pepsi bottles or any kind of bottle mountain dew, I

1103
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:24,040
Speaker 2: don't care what it was, and we would trade the

1104
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:29,439
Speaker 2: bottles in for money, and we would roll the quarters

1105
01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:32,519
Speaker 2: up in aluminum four and go to the store and

1106
01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:36,040
Speaker 2: buy the groceries we could. To keep the children fit,

1107
01:15:37,040 --> 01:15:40,680
Speaker 2: we took paper towels and made diapers out of them,

1108
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:46,120
Speaker 2: and it surrounded them with duct tape. If you think

1109
01:15:46,200 --> 01:15:49,600
Speaker 2: for one minute that you're fooling with a couple of

1110
01:15:49,640 --> 01:15:52,080
Speaker 2: people that grew up with silver spoons in their mouth,

1111
01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:57,400
Speaker 2: you have grossly underestimated us. We knew how to take

1112
01:15:58,040 --> 01:16:03,519
Speaker 2: twenty dollars and feed all five kids. You know, I

1113
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:06,120
Speaker 2: can do it now. I can even as how these

1114
01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:09,040
Speaker 2: prices are. Now, I can make it happen if I

1115
01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:11,720
Speaker 2: have to make it happen, because I grew up with

1116
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:14,479
Speaker 2: parents that had to make it happen. She grew up

1117
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:17,080
Speaker 2: with parents that had to make it happen. And so

1118
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:24,280
Speaker 2: thank you for not ever making me feel bad because

1119
01:16:24,479 --> 01:16:27,439
Speaker 2: we were going through that. Thank you. I see so

1120
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:30,360
Speaker 2: many women I didn't know until I got out and

1121
01:16:30,520 --> 01:16:34,720
Speaker 2: I started counseling. I see so many women who who

1122
01:16:36,120 --> 01:16:39,160
Speaker 2: kicked the man in the head, and he's out there

1123
01:16:39,240 --> 01:16:41,120
Speaker 2: trying to do everything he can. Now, some of them

1124
01:16:41,320 --> 01:16:43,639
Speaker 2: aren't trying to do nothing. They might need a good kick.

1125
01:16:44,280 --> 01:16:48,240
Speaker 2: But if he's out there really trying to make it happen,

1126
01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:53,280
Speaker 2: everything I respect any man that will work. Just don't

1127
01:16:53,400 --> 01:16:57,000
Speaker 2: bring me no man that won't work. Any man that

1128
01:16:57,439 --> 01:17:05,759
Speaker 2: will work, work, try packed buses, load trucks, cut grass.

1129
01:17:06,320 --> 01:17:10,120
Speaker 2: I speak to everybody. I speak to everybody working, the helpers,

1130
01:17:10,479 --> 01:17:13,599
Speaker 2: the janitors, the plumbers, and all of them, because at

1131
01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:16,519
Speaker 2: least you're out there fighting and you're trying to make

1132
01:17:16,560 --> 01:17:18,600
Speaker 2: it happen, and you might fool around and make it

1133
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:21,479
Speaker 2: happen better than the doctors and the lawyers. Yeah, and

1134
01:17:22,280 --> 01:17:26,160
Speaker 2: I respect fight and I'll help you fight, but I

1135
01:17:26,280 --> 01:17:28,519
Speaker 2: won't help you while you sit at home and don't

1136
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:32,639
Speaker 2: do anything. I won't do that. You have to get

1137
01:17:32,720 --> 01:17:35,920
Speaker 2: in the fight because it's the fight I respect. Yes,

1138
01:17:36,360 --> 01:17:38,960
Speaker 2: it's a fight. I tried to teach my kids fight back,

1139
01:17:39,960 --> 01:17:46,240
Speaker 2: fight back. But I want to thank you because I

1140
01:17:46,360 --> 01:17:48,920
Speaker 2: didn't have to fight you while I was fighting it.

1141
01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:54,080
Speaker 1: That's what happens when the coal miner's daughter marries the

1142
01:17:54,240 --> 01:17:55,120
Speaker 1: janitor's son.

1143
01:17:58,040 --> 01:18:00,559
Speaker 2: They're probably sitting in heaven living at both of us

1144
01:18:00,760 --> 01:18:05,800
Speaker 2: right now that that that is very true. We both

1145
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:09,000
Speaker 2: knew how to make it do what to do you know?

1146
01:18:09,680 --> 01:18:14,120
Speaker 2: And all, yeah, yeah, we just just went through it

1147
01:18:14,880 --> 01:18:20,560
Speaker 2: and made it work. And you never asked me for anything.

1148
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:24,040
Speaker 1: I've never had to ask you for anything.

1149
01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:31,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, no, I'm the one that's always bringing

1150
01:18:31,320 --> 01:18:35,320
Speaker 2: stuff home. Yeah, I'm the one that's always bringing stuff home.

1151
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:38,040
Speaker 2: You might need this, you might want to where it is,

1152
01:18:38,280 --> 01:18:40,519
Speaker 2: just just in case.

1153
01:18:40,720 --> 01:18:43,560
Speaker 1: And then the new chapter, I'm getting a new wardrobe.

1154
01:18:44,920 --> 01:18:47,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, because we're going to new places and in the

1155
01:18:47,960 --> 01:18:52,559
Speaker 2: new circles around new people, and more corporate, more corporate setting,

1156
01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:56,200
Speaker 2: not church settings, not church, and so that requires a

1157
01:18:56,320 --> 01:18:59,560
Speaker 2: certain element of change. I think, and I know a

1158
01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:03,880
Speaker 2: lot of you will disagree, but I think that it

1159
01:19:04,040 --> 01:19:08,000
Speaker 2: is easier to adapt to your environment than it is

1160
01:19:08,080 --> 01:19:13,400
Speaker 2: to make your environment adapt to you. And sometimes refusing

1161
01:19:13,600 --> 01:19:17,360
Speaker 2: to make modifications to fit the atmosphere that you now

1162
01:19:17,560 --> 01:19:20,640
Speaker 2: work in, that you now speak in, that you now

1163
01:19:20,800 --> 01:19:26,599
Speaker 2: perform in, it's foolish. Because there's somebody, there's a barefoot

1164
01:19:26,680 --> 01:19:30,320
Speaker 2: boy right outside the door would love that opportunity, and

1165
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:32,960
Speaker 2: he will cut his hair and he will do what

1166
01:19:33,080 --> 01:19:35,559
Speaker 2: he has to do, and he will make the changes

1167
01:19:35,640 --> 01:19:38,479
Speaker 2: that are necessary to be taken seriously. Should we have

1168
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:43,400
Speaker 2: to do it? No, I understand the cultural conflict of

1169
01:19:43,600 --> 01:19:49,320
Speaker 2: having to adapt, but you do what's necessary to get

1170
01:19:49,400 --> 01:19:51,719
Speaker 2: where you've got to go until you get enough money

1171
01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:54,200
Speaker 2: that you can do what you want to and then

1172
01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:57,120
Speaker 2: you can tell all of them. You know, you can

1173
01:19:57,240 --> 01:20:02,360
Speaker 2: grow your hair all the way down to you anywhere. Yeah, yeah,

1174
01:20:02,439 --> 01:20:05,920
Speaker 2: But when you're trying to climb up to the top,

1175
01:20:06,800 --> 01:20:09,200
Speaker 2: when you're trying to be noticed, when you're trying to

1176
01:20:09,280 --> 01:20:13,000
Speaker 2: get in the door, when when you're when you're trying

1177
01:20:13,960 --> 01:20:17,600
Speaker 2: to be acknowledged for your mind and your brain, you

1178
01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:19,519
Speaker 2: don't want your mustache to get anyway.

1179
01:20:21,400 --> 01:20:22,280
Speaker 1: Especially women.

1180
01:20:25,439 --> 01:20:29,880
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, especially women. Whatever you whatever you have to

1181
01:20:30,040 --> 01:20:33,720
Speaker 2: do to adjust. If you work at Wendy's, you wear

1182
01:20:33,840 --> 01:20:36,879
Speaker 2: wendy's uniform, you were working at McDonald's, you wear McDonalds.

1183
01:20:36,920 --> 01:20:39,320
Speaker 2: You work at the police station, you wear a police uniform.

1184
01:20:39,520 --> 01:20:42,280
Speaker 2: You work in the emergency room. You adapt, you wear

1185
01:20:42,360 --> 01:20:44,640
Speaker 2: the uniform. They don't say, as you do you like it,

1186
01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:47,479
Speaker 2: They don't ask you to put the uniform put a

1187
01:20:48,160 --> 01:20:50,800
Speaker 2: brooch on it. You can do all that when you

1188
01:20:50,920 --> 01:20:55,680
Speaker 2: get off. Your ability to adapt has a lot to

1189
01:20:55,760 --> 01:20:59,800
Speaker 2: do with your ability to survive. I hope you've got

1190
01:21:00,080 --> 01:21:03,840
Speaker 2: something out of this. Thank you for listening as we

1191
01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:07,639
Speaker 2: as we mend it through our lives and talk about

1192
01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:14,879
Speaker 2: the different moments. But all we have our pictures and moments.

1193
01:21:16,160 --> 01:21:21,200
Speaker 2: We don't have forty three years or all of those

1194
01:21:21,360 --> 01:21:24,280
Speaker 2: months or all those weeks. We don't remember what happened

1195
01:21:24,320 --> 01:21:28,120
Speaker 2: every hour of every day. All we remember is the moments.

1196
01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:31,680
Speaker 2: So when you go out there in life, make a

1197
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:37,439
Speaker 2: moment for somebody and cause them to have a next chapter.

1198
01:21:38,439 --> 01:21:41,080
Speaker 2: Thank you for sharing and for being with us. And

1199
01:21:41,280 --> 01:21:44,000
Speaker 2: I will shake your hand because that's appropial thing to do.

1200
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:50,920
Speaker 2: No kisses, okay, all right, anyways, so fresh bye y'all.

1201
01:21:51,320 --> 01:21:56,040
Speaker 2: It's been enjoyable. Hey, everybody, I want to take this

1202
01:21:56,240 --> 01:21:59,480
Speaker 2: time to thank you for watching the Next Chapter podcast.

1203
01:22:00,640 --> 01:22:05,280
Speaker 2: If this conversation inspired you, helped you reflect on an idea,

1204
01:22:05,680 --> 01:22:10,679
Speaker 2: or spark something new inside of you, make sure to like, comment,

1205
01:22:11,160 --> 01:22:17,920
Speaker 2: and subscribe so you don't miss future episodes. Remember, life

1206
01:22:18,120 --> 01:22:22,240
Speaker 2: isn't about how you begin, it's about how you finished strong,

1207
01:22:22,960 --> 01:22:28,880
Speaker 2: So start your next chapter with us right here every

1208
01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:29,200
Speaker 2: week