Speaker 1: And joining me now is Justice Gibbs. He is the
Speaker 1: legislature down in Mississippi, born and raised, a lifelong resident
Speaker 1: of Jackson, Mississippi, and part of our continuing series to
Speaker 1: elevate new voices, and Justice Gibbs joins me now, Justice,
Speaker 1: nice to me.
Speaker 2: Too great to be here, man, great to be here,
Speaker 2: and so glad that you're allowing Mississippi to let his
Speaker 2: voice be heard. Well.
Speaker 1: Good look. One of my favorite bosses ever is a
Speaker 1: man named Mandy Lack, and he's been the guy who
Speaker 1: up with Mississippi today. I think he lives in Jackson
Speaker 1: these days, so you may have seen him or come
Speaker 1: across him every now and then. And he has an
Speaker 1: interesting story of what got his ancestors to Mississippi. It's
Speaker 1: an unusual one. Jewish immigrants who end up making clothes
Speaker 1: for the Confederacy. They didn't know any of They were
Speaker 1: just immigrants and it was a job. They had no idea,
Speaker 1: you know, it was one of the things. And it's something.
Speaker 1: The more he learned about that, it just made him
Speaker 1: want to invest more and spend more time there. So,
Speaker 1: but Justice, give me your origin story, give us the
Speaker 1: how did you get into politics? Why what what was
Speaker 1: the motivation? What was the everybody was this one reason,
Speaker 1: like I'm getting in I want to solve this problem,
Speaker 1: I want to do this. What was that for you?
Speaker 2: Yeah? It was kind of most how fascinated for me.
Speaker 2: I first say that I grew up in a family
Speaker 2: of public servants. My father, I was a circuit judge
Speaker 2: when I was born. My mother served in the legislature
Speaker 2: for about six years prior to running for a circuit
Speaker 2: judge herself. So, you know, a lot of the kitchen
Speaker 2: table conversations that we had always sort of you know,
Speaker 2: revolved around politics or policy or what was going on
Speaker 2: in our city and our state and in our country. Uh.
Speaker 2: And you know, growing up, you know, going to our
Speaker 2: high school, serving in the student councils, something that was
Speaker 2: a really natural knack for me. But when I came
Speaker 2: home at the graduating from Howard University, attending law school,
Speaker 2: I noticed something very interesting, which was, you know, this
Speaker 2: sort of criticism that is directed to young people about
Speaker 2: you know, not exercising their rights to vote, not you know,
Speaker 2: helping either political party, you know, with their margins. And
Speaker 2: what I really recognize is that there is just such
Speaker 2: an empty void with young leadership on all levels, city, county, state,
Speaker 2: and I want it to be a part of changing that. So,
Speaker 2: at age twenty seven, decided to run for an open
Speaker 2: seat in my area and that's really how I got involved.
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. I feel like there's quite a
Speaker 1: few in people in your generation in Mississippi who've decided
Speaker 1: to quote not wait their turn right and try to
Speaker 1: beat go challenge the establishment a little bit, particularly on
Speaker 1: the Democratic side, because I think there's been some what
Speaker 1: have you guys been doing right? You know, we're still
Speaker 1: in the same place, you know, haven't made the progress
Speaker 1: that I think people they should be made. There was
Speaker 1: a new mayor of Jackson not that long ago and
Speaker 1: sort of the same mindset. So I do feel as
Speaker 1: if whether you're whether we call you older gen Z
Speaker 1: or younger millennial, where do you feel like you fall
Speaker 1: in that?
Speaker 2: A younger millennial? But there's also a great bucket of
Speaker 2: young gen Z folks who are interested in politics in
Speaker 2: Mississippi as well. It's just that we need to find
Speaker 2: space for them to serve in elected office. I think
Speaker 2: that there is an umptem amount of leadership development courses
Speaker 2: and leadership cohorts you know. I mean there's so many
Speaker 2: that you can't even name them. But you know, once
Speaker 2: they are prepared, we shouldn't send them to the next cohort. Weh'
Speaker 2: just the elected office. We should put them in a
Speaker 2: position of making these decisions that are going to be
Speaker 2: solidified when we are raising our families. You know, and
Speaker 2: I agree with you. I think that that it is,
Speaker 2: you know, we can't treat our elected offices as property.
Speaker 2: You know, I think that it's okay to pass the
Speaker 2: baton or to say that, you know, your expertise can
Speaker 2: be used outside of the electric faction.
Speaker 1: So, you know, it's been interesting, you know, particularly with
Speaker 1: you know, one of these these generational arguments have actually
Speaker 1: been sometimes sharpest among African American communities where you've had
Speaker 1: somebody who was a long time hero maybe stay in
Speaker 1: office a little bit too long because you know, they
Speaker 1: broke the barrier right they got there, and there is
Speaker 1: so I under I weirdly understand the sense of entitlement. Hey,
Speaker 1: I broke down this barrier. You know, I made this happen.
Speaker 1: The reason this is possible is because of what I did.
Speaker 1: What do you say to that older generation that feels
Speaker 1: as if Hey, wait a minute. I did all this
Speaker 1: hard work I took, you know, I took literal beatings
Speaker 1: in order to break through these barriers. But some of
Speaker 1: them aren't ready to pass the baton.
Speaker 2: What do you say to that, Well, the first part
Speaker 2: of your inquiry was the word I. You know, I
Speaker 2: did this, I did that, I took the So if
Speaker 2: I did this, then I'm entitled to this. When it's
Speaker 2: never really supposed to be about the eye. It's supposed
Speaker 2: to be about the community. It's supposed to be about
Speaker 2: the progress. And if it's about the eye, well I
Speaker 2: also did that. I mean, as a young person at
Speaker 2: age twenty seven, I remember knocking on doors and people
Speaker 2: thought I was selling cookies, you know, and I'm like, no,
Speaker 2: here's my pushcard. I'm running for elected office just because
Speaker 2: of the mindset of my community. And it's not to
Speaker 2: criticize them, but it's just what you have known about
Speaker 2: who should serve an elected office, what they're supposed to
Speaker 2: look like, what are the tackles, you know, the twenty
Speaker 2: years of experience, the thirty years of experience, without the
Speaker 2: question being what have you done within that twenty or
Speaker 2: that thirty years. So when a young person comes to
Speaker 2: your door, you know, you don't expect them to run
Speaker 2: for elected office. So my point is, you know, I
Speaker 2: could also have that entitled attitude of saying, you know,
Speaker 2: I broke down a barrier because there's not I'm the
Speaker 2: youngest Democrat stay elected official in Mississippi. But instead I'm
Speaker 2: also focused on that next generation. How do we find
Speaker 2: space for them to serve. But if we start to
Speaker 2: look at it as a holistic mission of changing this
Speaker 2: state without it being you know, I've been here for
Speaker 2: so long and you know, and you should, you know,
Speaker 2: pay homage to me. There's many ways that we can
Speaker 2: pay homage. And it's not just you know, continuing to
Speaker 2: support the person you know and elected office. Now there
Speaker 2: are also some great stuff. But I think that we
Speaker 2: have to create that space.
Speaker 1: So Mississippi is one of these states where it looks
Speaker 1: like a deep red state, but when you look at
Speaker 1: the potential of what it is, when you look at
Speaker 1: the what I would say, the unregistered population or the
Speaker 1: unengaged population, this should be a fifty to fifty state.
Speaker 1: This should be a state to put it in and
Speaker 1: where that should have African American senators plural. There should
Speaker 1: be a state that has as a bastion of political
Speaker 1: power for African Americans, and it hasn't been. What do
Speaker 1: you see today, What have been some of the mistakes
Speaker 1: of the past that you hope to fix just tactically.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, there's this is bigger than just tactics.
Speaker 1: But I just look at the last thirty years and think,
Speaker 1: just better tactics would make this state a more competitive politically.
Speaker 1: But I think those that feel underserved would feel as
Speaker 1: if they had some political power.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, I'll tell you. I remember the
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen gluminatorial race with Jim Hood and Tay Reeves,
Speaker 2: a race that was decided by forty five thousand votes.
Speaker 2: And then four years later, we have a race for
Speaker 2: Governor Patwey, Brandon Pressley and Tate Reeves that was decided
Speaker 2: I think between twenty four thousand votes. You know, that's
Speaker 2: a two to three point race. And I don't think
Speaker 2: that the country and the folks who are in leadership
Speaker 2: positions country why to understanding that Mississippi can be the
Speaker 2: epicenter of changing the American South, of actually becoming not
Speaker 2: only a purple state but a blue state one day.
Speaker 2: I mean, we are seeing statistically based going in the
Speaker 2: right direction because we are investing in candidates who are
Speaker 2: meeting people where they are explaining to people in rural
Speaker 2: areas who have to drive five to ten miles and
Speaker 2: even further just to go to an emergency room or hospital,
Speaker 2: why policies that they've been voting on are optuse to
Speaker 2: their way of life, the quality of their way of life.
Speaker 2: I think that what we have to start doing is
Speaker 2: we really need to bring the alarm on the donor
Speaker 2: base of national politics and all of the money that
Speaker 2: we pour into these national races, and there seems to
Speaker 2: not be that seems to not be an eye on
Speaker 2: states like Mississippi because it's on the ground. Man, we
Speaker 2: are a resilient party. It's the fact that we don't
Speaker 2: have the tools and the resources that we need to
Speaker 2: do what it is that we need to do.
Speaker 1: And a little bit of money if we want to
Speaker 1: put this in our in terms of ROI, I think
Speaker 1: the return on investment you take five if you have
Speaker 1: five million dollars to spend, it's going to get lost
Speaker 1: in Georgia. Five million dollars, No offense to Georgia. It
Speaker 1: just is what it is. A very expensive state. Now
Speaker 1: five million dollars in voter registration efforts in Mississippi in
Speaker 1: an off year that could lead to three to five
Speaker 1: new Democrats in the state legislature.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely, and also just on the judicial front. I mean,
Speaker 2: we just had a redistricting case that was decided by
Speaker 2: a federal court to redraw our maps because of extreme
Speaker 2: jerry mendering, which you know, of course found to violate
Speaker 2: Section two of the voting Rights at So I think
Speaker 2: we look look at we brush the surface and we say, well,
Speaker 2: Mississippi has a supermajority Republican controlled legislature, they have a
Speaker 2: Republican governor, all state wide offices are Republican. Well we're not,
Speaker 2: you know, getting deeper down into understanding the reasons as
Speaker 2: to why it's it looks like that when the citizens themselves,
Speaker 2: the constituency, a lot of people have struggled, would whether
Speaker 2: I go with the group think and go with with
Speaker 2: with the sority of who looks like me and the
Speaker 2: culture in which I've grown up, or do I go
Speaker 2: with what makes realistic sense for my children, for my grandchildren.
Speaker 2: I think we really can be the epicenter of that change.
Speaker 1: I mean, let's just put it in little starker race terms,
Speaker 1: is the bigger problem unengaged African American voters or moderate
Speaker 1: white voters who can't who aren't ready to leave the
Speaker 1: Republican Party Like you know, if you were to say
Speaker 1: in the state wide race, what should be the priority?
Speaker 1: Is it registering the less engaged and getting more engagement
Speaker 1: and just because the numbers are there, or is it
Speaker 1: better persuasion campaign for that? Because right now, you tell
Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong, I think Brandon Presley got nineteen
Speaker 1: to twenty percent of the white folk. Does that sound right?
Speaker 2: And I think you are.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the numbers have got to be closer
Speaker 1: to high twenties, you know, somewhere between twenty and thirty
Speaker 1: two to win. So what do you see? And I
Speaker 1: obviously maybe the answer is a little bit of both.
Speaker 1: But if you were to put more effort into one
Speaker 1: or the other, where would you put it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're right, it is both. I know that
Speaker 2: that's a basic answer, but you really have to do
Speaker 2: both at the same exact time. I'd say that Presley
Speaker 2: has been focusing on his rule coalition, which is very
Speaker 2: important for the Democratic Party to invest them, and that's
Speaker 2: going into the rural areas. You know, when you look
Speaker 2: at the maps on the presidential election night and they're
Speaker 2: adding up all of the counties and it's just, you know,
Speaker 2: one hundred votes here, a couple hundred votes here. But
Speaker 2: in the grand scheme of things, that is how you're
Speaker 2: able to be an epicenter of like Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, you know,
Speaker 2: or Detroit, Michigan. So I think that what we should
Speaker 2: do is is make sure that there are folks in
Speaker 2: the party that feel included and feel inclusive to be
Speaker 2: able to do what is their strong set, which may
Speaker 2: be you know, breaking it down to the rule of voters,
Speaker 2: but also doing the work of making sure that we
Speaker 2: find ways of getting unengaged African Americans out to vote
Speaker 2: at every election. I noticed in my community when I
Speaker 2: was running for office, there are folks that are are
Speaker 2: blue collar, white collar folks who don't vote. They don't
Speaker 2: vote the process. They just I mean, I mean, what
Speaker 2: do you go to do that's different, you know, And
Speaker 2: that's why I decided to try to focus my first
Speaker 2: two years in the legislature on actually bringing about visual change,
Speaker 2: visual reality for people to say, oh, that's why it's
Speaker 2: so important to elect people in this specific.
Speaker 1: I mean an example of that is that what is something?
Speaker 1: When you say visual change, I think like a mayor.
Speaker 1: I would think like making sure to restreet light has
Speaker 1: afe working light bulb, right, Like that would be a
Speaker 1: visual change. What's something? Because it's a little harder from
Speaker 1: a state legency in the when you're in the political minority.
Speaker 2: Yeah, very hard, very hard. And so with ways and
Speaker 2: means and appropriations, of course, you know, we do have
Speaker 2: an ability of sending state dollars to our communities for
Speaker 2: various projects. And it goes back to the discriminatory nature
Speaker 2: of our legislature in a way in which it was
Speaker 2: crafted in eighteen nineteen, meaning that Democratic majority districts or
Speaker 2: African American majority districts don't usually proceed. They're just doing
Speaker 2: state of appropriations. But I've been able to start the
Speaker 2: first state sponsored solar surveillance camera program that is giving
Speaker 2: a lot of my residents the ability to feel more
Speaker 2: comfortable and safe in their communities. It's attached to the
Speaker 2: County Sheriff's office and the real time command Crime Center
Speaker 2: of the able to repay streets, repave roads because we
Speaker 2: know that city and Jackson has had of course, invest
Speaker 2: in a lot of other, you know, issues that we
Speaker 2: have had. But if we can get all of our
Speaker 2: elected officials to work together to try to help the
Speaker 2: city and whatever it is, we're improving the quality of
Speaker 2: life of residents. And that is also how you get
Speaker 2: people to show back up to the polls. If they
Speaker 2: can point to something in their communion and say, well,
Speaker 2: you know what he said he was going to work
Speaker 2: on this, and he did it. Then this is my
Speaker 2: state representative matters, right.
Speaker 1: You know, let's talk about Jackson. I used to say
Speaker 1: when I was sitting in the doing meet the press,
Speaker 1: meet the present. Now, I spent a lot of time
Speaker 1: on the Jackson water crisis. I thought this should be
Speaker 1: more of a national story. I think when one of
Speaker 1: America's fifty state capitals does not have reliable drinking water,
Speaker 1: this should be this should be the focus of somebody
Speaker 1: in federal government, the singular focus. And I found and
Speaker 1: it hasn't mattered whether it was Republican administration or Democratic administration.
Speaker 1: You get the lip service, but there doesn't seem to
Speaker 1: be this what are we doing? Just figure out how
Speaker 1: to fix this problem. Stop trying to figure out whose
Speaker 1: fault it is, and I felt as if there was
Speaker 1: a lot of effort being put in well a bad
Speaker 1: contract that the mayor did, or a bad thing that
Speaker 1: the government, and everybody was pointing fingers and nobody was
Speaker 1: getting their clean drinking water. Give me an update on
Speaker 1: the situation and how much of this is just caught
Speaker 1: up in just old fashioned political you know, finger pointing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well, we're of course under a Feroe receiver
Speaker 2: shit now. And you know, we have a gentleman named
Speaker 2: Ted Hitefen who has been brought to the city of
Speaker 2: Jackson to try to revitalize the city's war system. There
Speaker 2: have been, of course, those who satisfied. There have been
Speaker 2: a lot of businesses in Jackson has threatened to leave
Speaker 2: because of the situation that are back on their feet
Speaker 2: with consistent, reliable drinking water and water that's just being
Speaker 2: you know, sent to their businesses on a consistent basis.
Speaker 2: But you know, we also still have our struggles. We
Speaker 2: still have our struggles with the federal receivership understanding the
Speaker 2: differences between the sections of the city and what some
Speaker 2: areas of the City of Jackson has struggled with versus
Speaker 2: what others have struggled with.
Speaker 1: You is it somebody with at least a knowledge of
Speaker 1: Jackson in charge of the receivership or is it just
Speaker 1: some outsider.
Speaker 2: Well, the judge, I mean, we're talking about the federal
Speaker 2: judge who does live and frequent in Jackson, So that
Speaker 2: does give us a leg up. Somebody doesn't understand, right,
Speaker 2: you know, the history Jackson, and of course it is
Speaker 2: really his authority that is given to NFN. In relation
Speaker 2: to how they actually revive the system, I will say
Speaker 2: that there have been improvements made, but again we can't
Speaker 2: get caught up. And I think you talked about how
Speaker 2: people are caught up in where to blame the thing,
Speaker 2: where to point the finger and who the place blame on.
Speaker 2: But we also can't also figure out who to blame
Speaker 2: in terms of where the contracts go. You know, we
Speaker 2: kind of get into this conundrum sometimes when we do
Speaker 2: have power, the power now goes to, well who else
Speaker 2: do you get power to? Right? Like, where do I
Speaker 2: have money? And I didn't want you to send the
Speaker 2: money so that company. It should have went to this company.
Speaker 2: And now we're losing sight on what it is that
Speaker 2: we're supposed to be improving.
Speaker 1: The main thing should be the main thing, which is yeah,
Speaker 1: clean drinking water, that's the main thing. Let's not take
Speaker 1: our eye off of it.
Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah, And some people want that. They just
Speaker 2: want effectiveness. They don't care how you do it. Just
Speaker 2: don't break the law, do it the correct way, and
Speaker 2: get it as consistent and reliable as possible.
Speaker 1: What are you attribute it to. You've lived in Jackson
Speaker 1: your whole life, and so what it may mean is
Speaker 1: this been sort of a norm you've understood. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: is how it works sometimes. What you talk about growing
Speaker 1: up with politics around the table, How did something like
Speaker 1: this happen? And why is? Why is the state leadership
Speaker 1: so laise fair about it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, you know again, I can't say that there's
Speaker 2: one person that you placed blamed to, but I think
Speaker 2: that there's been a variety of factors. I think that
Speaker 2: you can blame on flight people leaving Jackson, our tax
Speaker 2: based decreasing, But I also think that you can blame
Speaker 2: it on previous administrations and their lack of sounding the
Speaker 2: alarm at the appropriate time. But I also think that
Speaker 2: you can blame it on the states leadership and the
Speaker 2: state not coming in and giving the city adequate resourcesests
Speaker 2: of what it actually needs. But that also goes to
Speaker 2: the breakdown between democratic administrations and Republican administrations. So growing
Speaker 2: up at the table, you know, the stories that my
Speaker 2: parents would tell me and my sister was in relation
Speaker 2: to how Democrats and Republican work together. A lot of
Speaker 2: the times, you know.
Speaker 1: Back in the eighties and nineties, they did, because Mississippi did,
Speaker 1: by the way, regularly. Shoot, it was all Democrats until
Speaker 1: you know, until in somewhere in the nineties that the
Speaker 1: Republicans broke through. So it wasn't an unusual you know,
Speaker 1: late eighties in the Senate and then in governor's races.
Speaker 1: So you had this I think because both parties had
Speaker 1: a shot at winning the governorship, the relationship to Jackson
Speaker 1: was better for both parties.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah. But but I will say that that
Speaker 2: I have seen the state leadership because of the culture
Speaker 2: and political culture of the city of Jackson within the
Speaker 2: past eight years, say I'm going to hault any type
Speaker 2: of assistance to the city, and we are now getting
Speaker 2: away from that. We have new leadership. We have a
Speaker 2: much more inclusive city government and that sees all areas
Speaker 2: of Jackson as being important and included in the future
Speaker 2: of jack And also though we had a new leadership
Speaker 2: in the legislature which has started things like the Capital
Speaker 2: Revitalization Committee focused on creating legislation and policy to help
Speaker 2: the capital city. You cannot have a successful state without
Speaker 2: a successful capital city. And Jackson is going through metic city.
Speaker 2: So you know, it's almost like get out of your
Speaker 2: you know, put your big pants on and just staying that, yes,
Speaker 2: you are going to have to work with democratic leadership
Speaker 2: in the city of Jackson. You know it's going to
Speaker 2: help the state.
Speaker 1: This is a this is a virus that's going through
Speaker 1: our political system, which is and you're seeing it a
Speaker 1: lot more on the right, which is we're only going
Speaker 1: to govern for our supporters, and if you didn't vote
Speaker 1: for me, you're not going to get in your.
Speaker 2: Like no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 1: It just means we've let you make the decisions. But
Speaker 1: there's a spaceline assumption that you're going to keep services
Speaker 1: where they're at or improve them, not decrease services because
Speaker 1: they didn't give you political support. I mean, I got
Speaker 1: the sense that Republicans and state government felt like there
Speaker 1: was no political price to pay to punish Jackson and
Speaker 1: that and I think twenty years ago that wasn't the case.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. I agree with you,
Speaker 2: and not listening to the people on the ground, the
Speaker 2: people who've lived in Jackson for decades. Those are the
Speaker 2: folks who you go to, you know, in order to
Speaker 2: understand the dynamics of the city or what it is
Speaker 2: that the city needs. What are they asking for. I
Speaker 2: can tell you the countless amount of years that the
Speaker 2: City of Jackson has asked for appropriations for our state
Speaker 2: government and it's fallen on deaf ears. Now, I think
Speaker 2: that there's blame that you can place on both parties,
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, there are people
Speaker 2: behind these offices, these elected offices. They're folks who were struggling,
Speaker 2: and so that's what I'm saying. The finger pointing at
Speaker 2: some point has to stop because there are people who
Speaker 2: need the support from their government. You know, we're not
Speaker 2: exempt from pans state taxes because we're a democratic city.
Speaker 2: So that's again why important for appropriations to these d
Speaker 2: equably around the state of Mississippi, not just in areas
Speaker 2: where you can go and toout you know, being a
Speaker 2: proud conservative Republican or where you can say that you're
Speaker 2: a strong Democrat.
Speaker 1: Would you say Mississippi is culturally conservative across the board,
Speaker 1: meaning the average Democratic district is just culturally more conservative
Speaker 1: than the average Democratic district say in the northeast, or
Speaker 1: is or is are we missing something here? How would
Speaker 1: you describe the Democratic Party in Mississippi? Is it more
Speaker 1: conservative than the national Party?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I would say socially conservative potentially yess, But again
Speaker 2: you still have and what.
Speaker 1: Does that mean? Is that just on abortion issues or
Speaker 1: is that on other sort of cultural issues like same
Speaker 1: sex marriage and things like that.
Speaker 2: I think all of that, I would say when it
Speaker 2: comes to abortion, I think a majority of us are
Speaker 2: pro choice that are within Theocratic Party. But I do
Speaker 2: think that there can be some disagreement. It may not
Speaker 2: be as loud as others disagreement in regards to gay
Speaker 2: marriage as well as other other social issues. But again,
Speaker 2: what I think we have to continue to focus on
Speaker 2: doing is staying unified as the party the super minority.
Speaker 2: Attacking the super minority or ostracizing other folks in the
Speaker 2: super minority because you don't agree on one specific issue
Speaker 2: is not going to get you in the majority. It's
Speaker 2: not going to move you there, you know. And one
Speaker 2: thing I've noticed. I mean, I can count all of
Speaker 2: the moderate Republicans even in the state of Mississippi, Chuck,
Speaker 2: who told me and all of my colleagues, so, we'll
Speaker 2: never support Donald Trump again after January sixth, We'll never
Speaker 2: you know, you know, we we can't be loud about it, Justice,
Speaker 2: but we're not going to go and vote for him
Speaker 2: in the ballot box. To see the previous election and
Speaker 2: the man has over seventy million votes, Well, what that
Speaker 2: that's to me is, Yeah, there may be some folks
Speaker 2: who disagree, but when it comes to the end of
Speaker 2: the day, they're going to unify and align with their
Speaker 2: party with the person who they believe is going to
Speaker 2: do more good than the bad that they see. I
Speaker 2: think that we need to start to adopt that more
Speaker 2: in the Democratic Party in Mississippi. There are going to
Speaker 2: be Democrats who are lifelong Democrats who may disagree on
Speaker 2: one or two issues.
Speaker 1: Look, Brandon Presley on the issue of abortion, I think
Speaker 1: is in the minority of what you just said about
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party Mississippi.
Speaker 2: Right, that is correct, that is correct. But what you saw,
Speaker 2: Chuck in that election, as you saw us unify at
Speaker 2: the end, No, there was not large groups of Democrats
Speaker 2: protesting saying how dare we support this guy who is
Speaker 2: putting his hand on the Bible and has spent millions
Speaker 2: of dollars on television and saying that he is pro life. No, no, no,
Speaker 2: we understood the gravity of the moment. The gravity of
Speaker 2: the moment is this current Republican state administration needs to go.
Speaker 2: And the person that we have that is our most
Speaker 2: powerful opponent to him is someone who we need to
Speaker 2: stand behind now when it comes to governing. Yeah, of
Speaker 2: course we'll get into the nice and the weis then
Speaker 2: because now we have someone who's more responsive in the
Speaker 2: governor's office. So that's again what we have to focus
Speaker 2: on to get out of this super minority, to not
Speaker 2: ostracize each other, but to find ways of unifying, to
Speaker 2: get to the mango.
Speaker 1: As an observer of national politics and of what the Democrats,
Speaker 1: how the Democrats are doing, I'm sure you see the
Speaker 1: same you're seeing what we see, which is, you know
Speaker 1: how unpopular the party's brand is. Right now, what's your
Speaker 1: diagnosis for that and what's your cure?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, one, when it comes to young people, I
Speaker 2: think we need to listen to understand young people and
Speaker 2: not listen to respond. There needs to be I think
Speaker 2: we can be a little bit more inclusive to the
Speaker 2: ideas that young people bring about, and the idea is
Speaker 2: a Southern Democrats bring about to the national party and
Speaker 2: the national platform. But you know, again, I think that
Speaker 2: we do need a new generation of leadership in the party,
Speaker 2: and I think that we do need to be captivated
Speaker 2: as a party. I remember in two thousand and eight,
Speaker 2: you know, the way that our community felt when we
Speaker 2: had a new leader, someone who kind of took the
Speaker 2: party by storm, and it got everybody excited and involved
Speaker 2: about wanting to vote again, wanted to be involved again.
Speaker 2: I think that we need that in the Democratic Party.
Speaker 2: You know, a little caffeine in the system. I felt
Speaker 2: a lot of that of electricity at the DNC when
Speaker 2: Vice President Kamala Harris was our nominee. But how do
Speaker 2: we keep that electricity going and how do we revelop
Speaker 2: that electricity again in twenty twenty eight, I think is
Speaker 2: what's most important. Listen, this is the party for working
Speaker 2: class people. This is not the party of billionaires. There
Speaker 2: are more working class people than billionaires in the United States.
Speaker 2: So when we start to surgically pick apart the platform.
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily think that there's anything wrong with with
Speaker 2: with what we stand for. I think it's who do
Speaker 2: we see. Who are we showing in America that their
Speaker 2: voices matter, that their priorities. Similar to what I said
Speaker 2: about Mississippi, sometimes I don't feel like the National brand
Speaker 2: sees Mississippi or seize the Democrats in Mississippi.
Speaker 1: No, they don't know the way that they should.
Speaker 2: And I will give credit to d NC vice sheer
Speaker 2: Malcolm kin Yata because he traveled to Mississippi, and while
Speaker 2: I didn't get a chance to meet him, he did
Speaker 2: the work that should have been done decades ago here,
Speaker 2: you know, and not only just seeing us but giving
Speaker 2: us those resources because we need money, we need funds,
Speaker 2: and we need to you know, these are six electoral
Speaker 2: votes down here, you know, and there are votes that
Speaker 2: we can pick up one day if we get the
Speaker 2: right investment.
Speaker 1: Well, and do you start looking at the census of
Speaker 1: twenty thirty and where you know the blue wall of
Speaker 1: the Midwest won't be enough for Electorala to need another state,
Speaker 1: and then you're gonna have to narrowly hope you win Georgia,
Speaker 1: North Carolina, or do you need some padding? And when
Speaker 1: you start looking at the board, you know, I look
Speaker 1: at I do I look at Mississippi. Is you know
Speaker 1: this is this is a lighter red state than its repute.
Speaker 1: I always say my favorite way is it ain't Idaho. Okay.
Speaker 1: Idaho is dark red and that is what it is, right,
Speaker 1: just like Massachusetts is dark blue. Okay, those you know
Speaker 1: that you're going to have that on both sides of
Speaker 1: the aisle. Mississippi ain't Idaho, but the National Party treats
Speaker 1: it like Idaho.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and envision the freak out that will happen on
Speaker 2: the other side. You know when when that state does
Speaker 2: turn purple or it does.
Speaker 1: You saw it in Georgia. I mean, look what it
Speaker 1: did to the state party. Republican Party are still divided
Speaker 1: over this. They're still fighting that. I can't believe they
Speaker 1: blew it right and they're still seeing it. They still
Speaker 1: don't quite think it was it was a one offer,
Speaker 1: it was this or was that, but it did it
Speaker 1: scrambled them. I mean, you know, it's it's like any
Speaker 1: if you really want to do game theory, it's a
Speaker 1: version of game theory. You radially your opponent by suddenly
Speaker 1: taking a territory that they never thought they had.
Speaker 2: To protect, right and now kick another domino right and
Speaker 2: allow Mississippi to to do the unthinkable because what it
Speaker 2: will do.
Speaker 1: But no, no, no, you say it, because I think
Speaker 1: you're going to say it. I was just about to
Speaker 1: prompt you.
Speaker 2: What I'm saying is that now where is their attention focused.
Speaker 2: The attention is now focused in the South. Wait a minute.
Speaker 2: This has been saved territory for as long as we've
Speaker 2: known that, and now you've taken the attention to focus
Speaker 2: the resources, the money off of the Wisconsins, off of
Speaker 2: the Michigan's, off of the swing states.
Speaker 1: This is exactly it what Iowa being in the center
Speaker 1: of the political debate for presidential races allowed the ethanol
Speaker 1: industry to be to essentially punch above its weight, and
Speaker 1: that benefited financially the state of Iowa. If Mississippi is
Speaker 1: in play, you suddenly will get real investment in the state. Attention.
Speaker 1: National politicians will make prom says that they have to
Speaker 1: keep right when you're considered already in one column or
Speaker 1: the other, like the voters benefit being I always say this,
Speaker 1: the most valuable voters in America are swing voters because
Speaker 1: politicians obsessively need you. And if you are seen as
Speaker 1: hard to get, not easy to get, it's amazing what
Speaker 1: you're going to the largest that will come your state's wife.
Speaker 2: Absolutely and and and I can feel it when you know.
Speaker 2: I served as a surrogate for Kamala Harrison's campaign, and
Speaker 2: I went to North Carolina on the campus of the
Speaker 2: University of North Carolina, Charlotte. And you could see it
Speaker 2: in the eyes as well as the conversations I had
Speaker 2: with young college voters. They knew how much their vote mattered.
Speaker 2: It was like, if you can get me, if you
Speaker 2: can convince me to write down, not being on the
Speaker 2: side of that, you've done a number. You know, your
Speaker 2: flight here was worth it. And I noticed when I
Speaker 2: came back home in Mississippi the difference and how people
Speaker 2: saw their vote on the presidential level. You know a
Speaker 2: lot of Democrats, Yeah, we're going to go and exercise
Speaker 2: our right, but we don't see it as you know,
Speaker 2: as so much of importance to the political candidates and
Speaker 2: their machines themselves. And I agree with you when you
Speaker 2: talked about investment. You know, while we're talking about the
Speaker 2: things that come along with it. You know that we
Speaker 2: may not be paying attention to we're paying attentions to
Speaker 2: who wins so who loses this. But there's so much
Speaker 2: more that comes with your state turning to purple, with
Speaker 2: the becoming a suite. And like you said, folks have
Speaker 2: to make promises that they have to keep because they
Speaker 2: have to come back to you.
Speaker 1: I got to land this plane because I always a
Speaker 1: promise on these youtubes to make it a hard thirty.
Speaker 1: But I promise you you'll be able to find Republicans
Speaker 1: in Mississippi and some day that you can lead the
Speaker 1: charge to say, hey, let's make Mississippi an early presidential
Speaker 1: primary state because both parties will benefit. This is one
Speaker 1: of those areas both parties have benefit in Iowa, both
Speaker 1: parties benefit in New Hampshire, both parties benefit in Nevada,
Speaker 1: both parties benefit in South Carolina. Stay like Mississippi, that
Speaker 1: could use a little bit of just It's like hosting
Speaker 1: a big event. You get to host a big event
Speaker 1: and you get all sorts of money pouring into your economy.
Speaker 1: If you're hosting the NCAA Regionals in Jackson or something
Speaker 1: like that, it's no different except and then politicians might
Speaker 1: learn a thing or two about what's going on in
Speaker 1: Mississippi and they may change things.
Speaker 2: That's all right, and now we can have the double
Speaker 2: A in Mississippi because we've changed that divisive flat with
Speaker 2: conservative emblem. Unfortunately, people only pay attention to money and
Speaker 2: opportunity to eliminate the divisive you know, culture that we've
Speaker 2: had in Mississippi for quite some time. So I think
Speaker 2: you bring out a really good point. Shok, there's so
Speaker 2: much more to you know, put us in the right
Speaker 2: direction and to really have meaningful progress in Mississippi.
Speaker 1: You know, I just find that every time I get
Speaker 1: to know Mississippi leaders, I think there's so many good leaders.
Speaker 1: This it's it. It's just more people in the state
Speaker 1: need to believe in their leaders because it does feel
Speaker 1: as if just a little bit of effort would allow
Speaker 1: Mississippi to punch, punch, punch higher on the list here.
Speaker 2: Yep, absolutely right, and we have the power now, I
Speaker 2: mean up Hints County, one of the most populous counties,
Speaker 2: could have won that gubernatorial seat. We had the votes,
Speaker 2: just that county, just the county that I'm in right now,
Speaker 2: week on that. So, so that is the message to
Speaker 2: the donor class, that is the advanssage to those that
Speaker 2: have the resources as of how we can change this
Speaker 2: state if we are able to be fully invested in. Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, I'm convinced. It's a you know, I look at
Speaker 1: sometimes I look at states in the electoral map the
Speaker 1: way I look at you know, rising college football powers.
Speaker 1: Mississippi could be a power here. They just need a
Speaker 1: little investment. So this is all right, let me ask
Speaker 1: before I let get you out of here on this
Speaker 1: Ole Miss Orssissippi.
Speaker 2: State, University of Mississippi. Man. I got my law degree there,
Speaker 2: my father got his law degree there, and I'm a
Speaker 2: big fan of Ole Miss football. I think we're going
Speaker 2: to do amazing things. We're going to just erase last year.
Speaker 2: We're not going to talk about it, and we're gonna
Speaker 2: do some amazing things this year.
Speaker 1: I will say this, Lane Keffen is a press conference
Speaker 1: I always want to pay attention to because you never
Speaker 1: know what he's gonna say.
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. You never know you never know
Speaker 2: who he's going to recruit either.
Speaker 1: It's it's very true. It's very true. You didn't say
Speaker 1: Southern mess I thought you might throw that in there
Speaker 1: as my curveball or Jackson State. I was prepared for
Speaker 1: either one of them, but ultimately it's you know, or
Speaker 1: Mississippi State. Right there, there's sort of the stepchild. I
Speaker 1: feel like sometimes they can be.
Speaker 2: They can be my mom went to a sudden miss
Speaker 2: But I am always a Jackon. I grew up going
Speaker 2: to Jackson State football games. So if you live in
Speaker 2: Jackson and you're not a Jackson State fan, have.
Speaker 1: You become a Colorado Buffalo's fan by sort of proxy now?
Speaker 1: Or are you bitter about about Dion leaving.
Speaker 2: I was not one of the ones to become a
Speaker 2: Colorado Colorado fan. I will say after the coach damn Jackson.
Speaker 2: Let's just say that. Maybe I'm in the minority. But
Speaker 2: in a way which was rolled out, I am a
Speaker 2: Jackson State fan, uh and been a Jackson State fan
Speaker 2: when we've had coaches like Coach Comogy, the coaches where
Speaker 2: I don't even want to say their names, but you know,
Speaker 2: I stay true to the universities that I represent.
Speaker 1: I love it. Well, it would have it would have
Speaker 1: been just as fun to see Shador and Travis Hunter
Speaker 1: spend three years staying in Jackson State.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh, yeah, we love we enjoyed them, We
Speaker 2: enjoyed them.
Speaker 1: Uh, just great to get to know you appreciate the
Speaker 1: time check.
Speaker 2: This is amazing. Thank you, ma'am, M