1
00:00:09,162 --> 00:00:10,242
Speaker 1: Art originals.

2
00:00:10,322 --> 00:00:16,962
Speaker 2: This is an iHeart original. It's the summer of seventeen

3
00:00:17,282 --> 00:00:21,842
Speaker 2: ninety one. Trouble is brewing in the humid streets of Paris,

4
00:00:22,242 --> 00:00:26,362
Speaker 2: the first inklings of revolution. By this time next year,

5
00:00:26,562 --> 00:00:30,242
Speaker 2: the French royal family will be under house arrest, the

6
00:00:30,282 --> 00:00:35,202
Speaker 2: monarchy abolished. Within two years, Marie Antoinette will be taking

7
00:00:35,242 --> 00:00:42,482
Speaker 2: her place at the guillotine. But in seventeen ninety one,

8
00:00:42,722 --> 00:00:46,322
Speaker 2: our story is focused on a woman writing a memoir

9
00:00:46,762 --> 00:00:49,482
Speaker 2: trying to clear her name in one of the era's

10
00:00:49,722 --> 00:00:54,442
Speaker 2: most notorious scandals, a scandal that poured fuel on the

11
00:00:54,442 --> 00:00:57,682
Speaker 2: fire that enveloped the French monarchy.

12
00:00:58,162 --> 00:01:03,322
Speaker 3: Fain would I have imitated the retired warblings of the Nightingale,

13
00:01:03,642 --> 00:01:07,802
Speaker 3: and like her, poured out my tale of sorrows. But

14
00:01:08,362 --> 00:01:13,082
Speaker 3: cruel fate alas has denied me even the comforts of

15
00:01:13,162 --> 00:01:16,242
Speaker 3: obscurity and solitude.

16
00:01:16,282 --> 00:01:21,042
Speaker 2: This woman, our memoir writer, is Jean de Valois Saint Remi.

17
00:01:21,602 --> 00:01:26,562
Speaker 2: She's strangely immune to the ire of the revolutionaries. While

18
00:01:26,602 --> 00:01:30,762
Speaker 2: they paraded down the street demanding noble head's role, this

19
00:01:31,242 --> 00:01:36,042
Speaker 2: countess found safety in the public eye, maybe because she

20
00:01:36,202 --> 00:01:39,802
Speaker 2: was less of a countess than a con woman. And

21
00:01:40,002 --> 00:01:45,402
Speaker 2: maybe because her greatest victim was their greatest enemy, Queen

22
00:01:45,602 --> 00:01:51,802
Speaker 2: Marie Antoinette. Herself, Jeanques spent most of her life pretending

23
00:01:51,882 --> 00:01:54,882
Speaker 2: to be nobility, most of her time in the Paris

24
00:01:54,962 --> 00:02:00,242
Speaker 2: court trying to approximate luxury, and now in her final years,

25
00:02:00,642 --> 00:02:04,962
Speaker 2: she's found herself trying to rewrite her own history one

26
00:02:05,202 --> 00:02:06,042
Speaker 2: last time.

27
00:02:07,162 --> 00:02:10,442
Speaker 3: The names of a great queen and of a Prince

28
00:02:10,682 --> 00:02:15,842
Speaker 3: carnal unhappily united with mine have spread a blaze to

29
00:02:15,922 --> 00:02:21,002
Speaker 3: attract general notice. And as if I was doomed to

30
00:02:21,042 --> 00:02:25,002
Speaker 3: be the victim of painful splendor, the ingenuity of my

31
00:02:25,202 --> 00:02:29,122
Speaker 3: enemies found means to forge the chains of mightys honare

32
00:02:29,482 --> 00:02:31,922
Speaker 3: out of a diamond necklace.

33
00:02:33,082 --> 00:02:36,322
Speaker 2: It was all very ironic. She was hated by the

34
00:02:36,362 --> 00:02:40,162
Speaker 2: nobility for conning her way into the upper class. She

35
00:02:40,322 --> 00:02:44,642
Speaker 2: was loved by the common folk for incriminating an already

36
00:02:44,802 --> 00:02:49,962
Speaker 2: unpopular queen. But in all her scheming and conniving, the

37
00:02:50,002 --> 00:02:53,562
Speaker 2: countess had helped harold the end of the very thing

38
00:02:53,762 --> 00:02:58,362
Speaker 2: she wanted to be so badly, the wannabe countess had

39
00:02:59,002 --> 00:03:11,362
Speaker 2: unwillingly toppled the French monarchy. Welcome to very special episodes,

40
00:03:11,442 --> 00:03:15,642
Speaker 2: and I heeart original podcast. I'm your host, Dana Schwartz,

41
00:03:16,042 --> 00:03:25,442
Speaker 2: and this is the Affair of the Diamond Necklace. I

42
00:03:25,442 --> 00:03:27,962
Speaker 2: do have to say, I'm obsessed with this story. I've

43
00:03:27,962 --> 00:03:30,762
Speaker 2: been obsessed with this story for a long time. We

44
00:03:30,842 --> 00:03:34,282
Speaker 2: actually covered it. I have another history podcast called Noble

45
00:03:34,282 --> 00:03:37,162
Speaker 2: Blood that talks about, you know, weird stories about royals

46
00:03:37,162 --> 00:03:39,722
Speaker 2: from history, and this was one of the first episodes.

47
00:03:39,762 --> 00:03:41,522
Speaker 2: Because it's just it's stranger than fiction.

48
00:03:41,802 --> 00:03:45,042
Speaker 1: It's so good. It's real life, dangerous liaisons. It's just

49
00:03:45,162 --> 00:03:48,602
Speaker 1: absolutely the best, like power and precige and scammy people

50
00:03:48,602 --> 00:03:50,082
Speaker 1: in the courts. I love this one.

51
00:03:50,202 --> 00:03:53,322
Speaker 2: Also, is there anything more French than pulling a scam

52
00:03:53,362 --> 00:03:54,962
Speaker 2: with your lover and your husband?

53
00:03:57,122 --> 00:04:00,602
Speaker 4: Eighteenth century catfish story, It's great, let's get into it.

54
00:04:03,042 --> 00:04:07,882
Speaker 2: Before the French Revolution, before the Diamond Necklace, Jean was

55
00:04:08,082 --> 00:04:12,882
Speaker 2: just someone, certainly not a tabloid darling. But when you

56
00:04:12,962 --> 00:04:16,362
Speaker 2: step back and look at this story, it's no wonder

57
00:04:16,442 --> 00:04:20,602
Speaker 2: Paris was buzzing with news of Jean, and no wonder

58
00:04:20,642 --> 00:04:24,922
Speaker 2: we're still talking about her right now. Before this episode

59
00:04:25,082 --> 00:04:29,322
Speaker 2: is over, a revolution will spill through the streets of Paris.

60
00:04:29,762 --> 00:04:32,602
Speaker 2: A woman will swoop down from a four s drawn

61
00:04:32,682 --> 00:04:37,162
Speaker 2: carriage to save a poor orphan and a priceless diamond

62
00:04:37,282 --> 00:04:43,282
Speaker 2: necklace will disappear. And despite the fact that this singular

63
00:04:43,402 --> 00:04:48,002
Speaker 2: episode might have changed the course of French history, there's

64
00:04:48,082 --> 00:04:51,442
Speaker 2: not one eyewitness account of the whole thing.

65
00:04:52,002 --> 00:04:56,722
Speaker 5: So you've got this stranger than fiction scandal without one

66
00:04:56,762 --> 00:05:00,762
Speaker 5: reliable witness to tell it. There's that famous adage about

67
00:05:01,082 --> 00:05:03,362
Speaker 5: a lie can make its way twice around the world

68
00:05:03,402 --> 00:05:06,962
Speaker 5: before the truth has time to tire shoes, and that

69
00:05:07,162 --> 00:05:09,202
Speaker 5: is the world that we were in.

70
00:05:09,802 --> 00:05:14,162
Speaker 2: That's Leslie Carrol. She's a writer across many genres. The

71
00:05:14,242 --> 00:05:19,282
Speaker 2: genre that concerns us is highly researched women's historical fiction.

72
00:05:19,842 --> 00:05:22,962
Speaker 2: For her book series about the French aristocracy just before

73
00:05:23,002 --> 00:05:27,322
Speaker 2: the Revolution, Becoming Marie Antoinette, Leslie became an expert on

74
00:05:27,362 --> 00:05:31,442
Speaker 2: this slippery tale from history and an expert on today's

75
00:05:31,442 --> 00:05:34,242
Speaker 2: main character, Jean de Bellois so Remi.

76
00:05:35,642 --> 00:05:40,242
Speaker 5: Jean is an anti heroine in the most perfect sense

77
00:05:40,322 --> 00:05:44,042
Speaker 5: because she was a con woman from con girl from

78
00:05:44,042 --> 00:05:46,522
Speaker 5: the time she was about six years old. She also

79
00:05:46,602 --> 00:05:49,962
Speaker 5: had an ancestor who was kicked out of Velsai for

80
00:05:50,162 --> 00:05:55,962
Speaker 5: minting fake coins, so her carn artistry comes through genetically Jean.

81
00:05:55,882 --> 00:05:59,922
Speaker 2: Is born on July twenty second, seventeen fifty six in

82
00:05:59,962 --> 00:06:04,322
Speaker 2: the Champagne region of France. She's the third of six children,

83
00:06:04,482 --> 00:06:08,202
Speaker 2: only one of three who survived childhood. Her mother is

84
00:06:08,282 --> 00:06:13,162
Speaker 2: an illiterate housemaid. Her father, well, that's a bit more complicated.

85
00:06:14,362 --> 00:06:22,002
Speaker 5: She is a descendant of King Henri the second of Valois, who,

86
00:06:22,042 --> 00:06:26,042
Speaker 5: for royal watchers, was married to Catherine de Medici when

87
00:06:26,082 --> 00:06:27,162
Speaker 5: he was only a teenager.

88
00:06:27,722 --> 00:06:31,922
Speaker 2: Jean's noble lineage is a bit convoluted, but basically, King

89
00:06:32,002 --> 00:06:35,282
Speaker 2: Henri the second had a son out of wedlock, Baron

90
00:06:35,322 --> 00:06:38,122
Speaker 2: de san Rami, and then the baron had kids who

91
00:06:38,242 --> 00:06:38,962
Speaker 2: had kids.

92
00:06:39,642 --> 00:06:43,642
Speaker 5: Our anti heroine, Jenne is descended from the sixth and

93
00:06:43,842 --> 00:06:47,002
Speaker 5: last of the second Baron de Saint Remy's kids, which

94
00:06:47,042 --> 00:06:51,162
Speaker 5: means there's no money left to go around. So Jean's

95
00:06:51,202 --> 00:06:57,522
Speaker 5: family is noble but poor. And Jeanne's father says, hey,

96
00:06:57,522 --> 00:07:00,882
Speaker 5: I'm from the Vauois dynasty, so I deserve a royal pension,

97
00:07:01,202 --> 00:07:03,962
Speaker 5: And he starts going around to whoever will listen, and

98
00:07:04,002 --> 00:07:06,322
Speaker 5: he says, hey, I have a royal lineage and I

99
00:07:06,322 --> 00:07:08,802
Speaker 5: want a pension, and he makes so much trouble that

100
00:07:08,842 --> 00:07:11,682
Speaker 5: he ends up getting thrown in jail because nobody likes

101
00:07:11,682 --> 00:07:14,802
Speaker 5: a pretender to the throne.

102
00:07:15,082 --> 00:07:17,482
Speaker 2: So by the time Jean's a kid, she's got no

103
00:07:17,602 --> 00:07:21,762
Speaker 2: clear prospects, no money, and her only tie to nobility

104
00:07:21,882 --> 00:07:25,482
Speaker 2: is locked up for being a blabbermouth. To make matters worse,

105
00:07:25,602 --> 00:07:28,962
Speaker 2: her mom leaves her and her siblings begging on the

106
00:07:29,082 --> 00:07:32,522
Speaker 2: side of the road in Paris, arming them with pamphlet

107
00:07:32,642 --> 00:07:37,442
Speaker 2: claiming their valois. You can't fault jean for her later ambition.

108
00:07:38,002 --> 00:07:41,762
Speaker 2: From the very beginning, she was dead set on reaching nobility.

109
00:07:42,282 --> 00:07:45,722
Speaker 5: This early part of Jeanne's life, a carriage comes by

110
00:07:46,442 --> 00:07:48,562
Speaker 5: and a woman sticks out her head and sees these

111
00:07:48,602 --> 00:07:52,082
Speaker 5: three little kids begging on the street and believes the story.

112
00:07:52,602 --> 00:07:55,362
Speaker 5: And this woman is the Marquis de Boulbillier.

113
00:07:55,722 --> 00:07:59,442
Speaker 2: Somehow, the Marquise convinces her husband, one of the wealthiest

114
00:07:59,562 --> 00:08:03,362
Speaker 2: bankers in France, to take the kids under their wing.

115
00:08:03,762 --> 00:08:06,482
Speaker 2: It's like a fairy tale. The san Ramie kids are

116
00:08:06,602 --> 00:08:11,362
Speaker 2: education alongside the Boulaangnviers, sent to all the best schools.

117
00:08:11,922 --> 00:08:14,962
Speaker 2: Things are looking up for jean and then, like in

118
00:08:15,042 --> 00:08:18,642
Speaker 2: any good story, the other glass slipper dropped.

119
00:08:19,762 --> 00:08:22,802
Speaker 5: Suddenly people smell something strange on the street. What is

120
00:08:22,842 --> 00:08:23,722
Speaker 5: this weird odor?

121
00:08:23,962 --> 00:08:28,722
Speaker 2: According to Leslie, authorities found an illegal distillery in the

122
00:08:28,762 --> 00:08:30,242
Speaker 2: Marquise's home, and.

123
00:08:30,402 --> 00:08:33,202
Speaker 5: The worst thing that can happen to any nobleman in

124
00:08:33,242 --> 00:08:36,442
Speaker 5: France is to be ostracized and sent to your country estate.

125
00:08:36,882 --> 00:08:41,282
Speaker 5: So bang, Jean's dreams of entering Paris society are dashed.

126
00:08:41,682 --> 00:08:45,482
Speaker 2: From there, Jean is entered into the only other place

127
00:08:45,642 --> 00:08:49,362
Speaker 2: for a young woman of the era, a convent where

128
00:08:49,402 --> 00:08:53,042
Speaker 2: they have her apprenticing with seamstresses and millineries.

129
00:08:53,842 --> 00:08:56,362
Speaker 5: And John is like, wait, wha, wha, wha, whoa, whoa whoa. Well,

130
00:08:56,362 --> 00:08:58,962
Speaker 5: I'm descended from a Vaulois. I don't do manual labor.

131
00:08:59,242 --> 00:09:01,402
Speaker 5: So she says, no, forget it, I'm going to try

132
00:09:01,442 --> 00:09:05,082
Speaker 5: this on my own. And she gets out of the

133
00:09:05,162 --> 00:09:08,362
Speaker 5: convent and in seventy in eighty she finds herself a

134
00:09:08,402 --> 00:09:15,562
Speaker 5: fella named Nicola de LaMotte, who is a weird, scrawny,

135
00:09:16,522 --> 00:09:17,202
Speaker 5: short guy.

136
00:09:17,602 --> 00:09:20,842
Speaker 2: Here's how Jean writes about Nicola in her memoirs.

137
00:09:21,362 --> 00:09:25,642
Speaker 3: During my first abude at bersu Ob, I became acquainted

138
00:09:25,722 --> 00:09:29,322
Speaker 3: with Comte de LaMotte. But as it is not a

139
00:09:29,362 --> 00:09:33,242
Speaker 3: novel I'm writing, I shall pass over the circumstances which

140
00:09:33,322 --> 00:09:37,082
Speaker 3: brought him to a proposal or a marriage, as well

141
00:09:37,122 --> 00:09:41,042
Speaker 3: as the motives that determined me to accept it.

142
00:09:41,922 --> 00:09:46,522
Speaker 2: Jean was heavily pregnant with twins at the time. The

143
00:09:46,602 --> 00:09:49,682
Speaker 2: twins only lived for a few days after their birth,

144
00:09:49,882 --> 00:09:53,282
Speaker 2: but Nicola and John stayed together. As time went on,

145
00:09:53,562 --> 00:09:57,002
Speaker 2: they set up a life, growing their circle bit by bit.

146
00:09:58,202 --> 00:10:02,522
Speaker 2: Their acquaintances were hardly the noblemen and ladies of court

147
00:10:02,722 --> 00:10:05,242
Speaker 2: Jean wanted to rub elbows.

148
00:10:04,762 --> 00:10:09,842
Speaker 5: With, and ultimately they end up forming a troika, and

149
00:10:09,882 --> 00:10:14,802
Speaker 5: the third leg of this stool is an army buddy

150
00:10:14,882 --> 00:10:21,442
Speaker 5: of Nicolas named Roteau du Billette, who is handsomer and

151
00:10:21,562 --> 00:10:24,842
Speaker 5: more interesting, and for some reason, Nicola doesn't seem to

152
00:10:24,882 --> 00:10:30,522
Speaker 5: mind too much when Redeau and Jane become lovers, because, oh, heck,

153
00:10:30,682 --> 00:10:33,122
Speaker 5: Nicola has a few mistresses of his own.

154
00:10:33,962 --> 00:10:38,402
Speaker 2: Still, what Jean wanted was to be nobility. That was

155
00:10:38,642 --> 00:10:41,922
Speaker 2: all she heard her father talk about when he'd been around.

156
00:10:42,282 --> 00:10:45,402
Speaker 2: The tale her mother had instructed her to tell. It

157
00:10:45,522 --> 00:10:48,882
Speaker 2: was her distant Valois name that had landed her in

158
00:10:49,002 --> 00:10:53,882
Speaker 2: the marquise's house, and here she was married, childless, and

159
00:10:53,962 --> 00:10:57,642
Speaker 2: still dirt poor. There had to be a way forward.

160
00:10:58,242 --> 00:11:01,762
Speaker 5: They decide, well, heck, we need a profession. Lest's become

161
00:11:01,842 --> 00:11:02,642
Speaker 5: con artists.

162
00:11:03,522 --> 00:11:07,602
Speaker 2: Surely con artistry wouldn't be so different. And to these

163
00:11:07,642 --> 00:11:12,122
Speaker 2: steps that had gotten Jean this far, She'd just adorn

164
00:11:12,242 --> 00:11:16,282
Speaker 2: the truth of her beloir heritage until she was actually

165
00:11:16,362 --> 00:11:20,402
Speaker 2: able to restore her noble family name. Now she had

166
00:11:20,562 --> 00:11:24,082
Speaker 2: two partners in crime who could help her cause. By

167
00:11:24,122 --> 00:11:29,202
Speaker 2: this point, Nicola, Jean, and their quote unquote friend Routeau

168
00:11:29,922 --> 00:11:33,682
Speaker 2: decided they needed to make money. Between the three of them,

169
00:11:33,842 --> 00:11:38,002
Speaker 2: they had a failed military career, a sort of handsome face,

170
00:11:38,442 --> 00:11:42,882
Speaker 2: and a dubious claim to nobility. They decide to follow

171
00:11:43,002 --> 00:11:47,082
Speaker 2: that last lead. Nicola and Jean wanted to get into

172
00:11:47,162 --> 00:11:50,642
Speaker 2: the court of the current King and Queen, Louis the

173
00:11:50,682 --> 00:11:55,482
Speaker 2: sixteenth and Marie Antoinette. They need a connection to the crown,

174
00:11:55,962 --> 00:11:59,842
Speaker 2: so they head back to the Marquise, Jean's initial sponsor

175
00:12:00,002 --> 00:12:04,162
Speaker 2: before that illegal distillery incident, to get a good word.

176
00:12:04,642 --> 00:12:07,122
Speaker 2: And it just so happened that the Marquise and the

177
00:12:07,122 --> 00:12:12,842
Speaker 2: Marquis are staying with a very consequential host, Cardinal Prince

178
00:12:13,362 --> 00:12:14,522
Speaker 2: Louis de Roan.

179
00:12:15,202 --> 00:12:20,242
Speaker 5: He's the highest ecclesiastical voice in France, and actually a

180
00:12:20,322 --> 00:12:22,882
Speaker 5: minor prince, so he's a prince of the Church and

181
00:12:22,922 --> 00:12:27,522
Speaker 5: a prince for real, and he's got Belgian Gobla tapistries,

182
00:12:27,602 --> 00:12:29,802
Speaker 5: and he's got crystal This is he does not live

183
00:12:29,842 --> 00:12:31,562
Speaker 5: like a man of the cloth by any means.

184
00:12:32,082 --> 00:12:35,162
Speaker 2: When Jean shows up, it's not just the jewels and

185
00:12:35,442 --> 00:12:39,962
Speaker 2: artwork that catch her eye. She's accidentally walked into a

186
00:12:40,082 --> 00:12:45,002
Speaker 2: masterclass of con artistry right in the Cardinal Prince's home.

187
00:12:46,002 --> 00:12:50,482
Speaker 5: He is hosting in his home the Man of the Hour,

188
00:12:50,882 --> 00:12:57,162
Speaker 5: a famous self proclaimed mesmeric healer, an alchemist, a man

189
00:12:57,282 --> 00:13:04,802
Speaker 5: named Count Cagliostro, and his wife Sarah Fina. Now in reality,

190
00:13:04,922 --> 00:13:10,202
Speaker 5: Count Cagliostro is really an Italian named Balsamo, and his

191
00:13:10,282 --> 00:13:15,482
Speaker 5: wife is the illiterate daughter of a blacksmith. Caliostro decks

192
00:13:15,522 --> 00:13:21,242
Speaker 5: himself out like Prospero in you know, capes that are

193
00:13:21,282 --> 00:13:24,922
Speaker 5: marked with signs, and he again lots and lots of perfume.

194
00:13:25,162 --> 00:13:30,122
Speaker 5: And he's one of these crazy guys in the eighteenth

195
00:13:30,122 --> 00:13:37,282
Speaker 5: century who has convinced the richest people in Europe that

196
00:13:37,402 --> 00:13:40,722
Speaker 5: he has the power to cure them. And the Cardinal

197
00:13:40,842 --> 00:13:47,562
Speaker 5: takes her up to Caliostro's little alchemy whatever his atolier

198
00:13:48,082 --> 00:13:50,522
Speaker 5: and goes, look, he made me this ring, and he

199
00:13:51,162 --> 00:13:52,962
Speaker 5: told me there was more where that came from. He's

200
00:13:52,962 --> 00:13:55,642
Speaker 5: gonna make all these diamonds. And John is like, oh

201
00:13:55,722 --> 00:13:59,082
Speaker 5: god boy, what a dummy.

202
00:14:00,882 --> 00:14:03,962
Speaker 2: Now, Jean's been looking for a target who's rich and

203
00:14:04,082 --> 00:14:07,482
Speaker 2: easy to fool. The last ingredient she'd need for a

204
00:14:07,522 --> 00:14:11,882
Speaker 2: successful con was motive. She needed the Cardinal Prince to

205
00:14:12,082 --> 00:14:16,562
Speaker 2: want something. Luckily, they had a common goal to get

206
00:14:16,642 --> 00:14:20,842
Speaker 2: the crown to notice them. To understand just how this

207
00:14:21,002 --> 00:14:23,802
Speaker 2: con worked, We've got to go back in time and

208
00:14:23,962 --> 00:14:27,962
Speaker 2: head east to the border of Austrian Germany, where a

209
00:14:28,002 --> 00:14:32,282
Speaker 2: young Marie Antoinette is making the long trek to France

210
00:14:32,402 --> 00:14:36,002
Speaker 2: to get married. There she meets the Cardinal Prince for

211
00:14:36,042 --> 00:14:37,082
Speaker 2: the first time.

212
00:14:37,522 --> 00:14:44,242
Speaker 5: And she meets this cardinal draw and he's got gold

213
00:14:44,322 --> 00:14:48,962
Speaker 5: lace cuffs, and he reeks of expensive perfume, and he's

214
00:14:49,042 --> 00:14:53,962
Speaker 5: just seems oily and anxious and butterwood melt in his mouth.

215
00:14:54,082 --> 00:14:56,402
Speaker 5: He's just she just kind of wants to take a

216
00:14:56,442 --> 00:14:58,322
Speaker 5: bath after speaking to him.

217
00:14:58,762 --> 00:15:02,642
Speaker 2: They don't exactly hit it off. The Cardinal Prince is powerful,

218
00:15:02,762 --> 00:15:06,202
Speaker 2: but Marie's still on her way to becoming queen and

219
00:15:06,402 --> 00:15:10,922
Speaker 2: they're relatelationship only worsens A few years later, at a

220
00:15:11,042 --> 00:15:15,242
Speaker 2: sparkling dinner party in Paris, the Cardinal really sticks his

221
00:15:15,322 --> 00:15:21,202
Speaker 2: foot in his mouth. He bad mouths Marie's mom. Marie's mom,

222
00:15:21,402 --> 00:15:24,922
Speaker 2: Maria Teresa, was a pretty big deal. She was one

223
00:15:24,922 --> 00:15:29,242
Speaker 2: of the three major players trying to partition Poland, which

224
00:15:29,322 --> 00:15:34,082
Speaker 2: was the subject of flight dinner conversation that night in Paris.

225
00:15:33,882 --> 00:15:37,802
Speaker 5: And the Cardinal repeats a quote joke that.

226
00:15:37,882 --> 00:15:43,722
Speaker 6: He heard, supposedly Frederick's great said that the Maria Tarisa

227
00:15:44,002 --> 00:15:47,322
Speaker 6: in one end wielded an ankerchief to cry for the

228
00:15:47,482 --> 00:15:52,082
Speaker 6: poor Poles, and in Zia's land wielded a sword against him.

229
00:15:56,602 --> 00:15:59,762
Speaker 5: Well, news of this comment gets back to Marie Antoinette,

230
00:15:59,762 --> 00:16:02,842
Speaker 5: of course, and she's livid, and she said, never again.

231
00:16:02,922 --> 00:16:05,202
Speaker 5: I don't care. This man is dead to me. He

232
00:16:05,282 --> 00:16:08,842
Speaker 5: will never get higher up, will never get any other offices.

233
00:16:09,082 --> 00:16:12,002
Speaker 5: I don't want him to have anything to do with me,

234
00:16:12,202 --> 00:16:14,922
Speaker 5: my future children anything. He does end up baptizing her

235
00:16:15,002 --> 00:16:17,322
Speaker 5: children because he's the Grand Almoner of France, but she

236
00:16:17,362 --> 00:16:20,282
Speaker 5: won't even look him in the eye at the baptismal

237
00:16:20,362 --> 00:16:24,682
Speaker 5: font and it becomes known throughout France that Marie Antoinette

238
00:16:24,682 --> 00:16:27,402
Speaker 5: will have nothing to do with this man, that she

239
00:16:27,602 --> 00:16:30,842
Speaker 5: hates his guts more than anyone in France.

240
00:16:32,962 --> 00:16:37,642
Speaker 2: Back in Kaliostro's alchemy chamber in seventeen eighty one, Jean

241
00:16:37,882 --> 00:16:40,242
Speaker 2: puts the puzzle pieces together.

242
00:16:40,482 --> 00:16:44,642
Speaker 5: More than anything. Now, the Cardinal is desperate to get

243
00:16:44,682 --> 00:16:48,202
Speaker 5: back into Marie Antoinette's good graces because now she's the queen.

244
00:16:48,362 --> 00:16:53,482
Speaker 5: The Cardinal is also an extremely gullible, credible man. He

245
00:16:53,562 --> 00:16:57,562
Speaker 5: has two weak points, money and power.

246
00:16:59,242 --> 00:17:05,082
Speaker 2: And so Jean approaches the Cardinal prince praising Caliostro's skills.

247
00:17:05,162 --> 00:17:09,162
Speaker 5: She realizes, now how credible this guy is. She's like, oh,

248
00:17:09,162 --> 00:17:12,482
Speaker 5: my god, if he'll believe Kliostro is an alchemist, good grief,

249
00:17:12,482 --> 00:17:15,962
Speaker 5: there's no such thing as an alchemist. Maybe he'll believe

250
00:17:16,042 --> 00:17:20,282
Speaker 5: my story. And then she starts with a sob story

251
00:17:21,122 --> 00:17:26,122
Speaker 5: and oh, I'm a descendant on the last balloon. All

252
00:17:26,202 --> 00:17:29,042
Speaker 5: I'm trying to do is get my estates by the

253
00:17:29,082 --> 00:17:32,002
Speaker 5: wholesob story. In her very low cut gown.

254
00:17:33,282 --> 00:17:42,362
Speaker 2: Jean has found her mark, one step closer to nobility.

255
00:17:42,762 --> 00:17:46,202
Speaker 2: Jean put her plan into action. She gets close to

256
00:17:46,242 --> 00:17:50,202
Speaker 2: the Cardinal prince, apparently becoming his lover, because if a

257
00:17:50,282 --> 00:17:53,922
Speaker 2: cardinal is already sinning with an alchemist, why stop there.

258
00:17:54,562 --> 00:17:57,602
Speaker 2: Soon he falls into the trap Jean has laid out

259
00:17:57,602 --> 00:18:00,682
Speaker 2: for him. He asks her for what he needs.

260
00:18:01,042 --> 00:18:03,922
Speaker 5: He's like, oh, do you know Marie Antoinette, Because all

261
00:18:04,002 --> 00:18:07,362
Speaker 5: I want is to become an intimate of the queen

262
00:18:07,682 --> 00:18:10,842
Speaker 5: and to get back into her good graces, because for

263
00:18:10,882 --> 00:18:14,362
Speaker 5: some reason, I don't understand why the queen hates me

264
00:18:14,442 --> 00:18:18,162
Speaker 5: so much. And so she claims, well, if you'll help

265
00:18:18,202 --> 00:18:20,482
Speaker 5: me with the Queen, i'll help you with them. And

266
00:18:20,522 --> 00:18:22,722
Speaker 5: she claims to know everything about Versailles.

267
00:18:23,162 --> 00:18:27,082
Speaker 2: There's one little hitch here. Jean does not know the queen,

268
00:18:27,562 --> 00:18:31,362
Speaker 2: and she's never been to Versailles. But John's never let

269
00:18:31,402 --> 00:18:35,042
Speaker 2: a little thing like the truth stop her before. According

270
00:18:35,082 --> 00:18:38,482
Speaker 2: to Leslie, for all the trouble Jean had in regaining

271
00:18:38,522 --> 00:18:43,002
Speaker 2: her noble title, it wasn't too hard to actually enter

272
00:18:43,522 --> 00:18:45,402
Speaker 2: the seat of the French monarchy.

273
00:18:46,162 --> 00:18:51,282
Speaker 5: You know. Louis the fourteenth famously said, let tassinoi Versailles itself.

274
00:18:52,082 --> 00:18:55,042
Speaker 5: Anybody could go there as long as a man had

275
00:18:55,042 --> 00:18:57,562
Speaker 5: a hat and a sword, and they retailed those. If

276
00:18:57,602 --> 00:18:59,722
Speaker 5: you've ever been to Versailles, and you see the courtyards.

277
00:19:00,122 --> 00:19:02,682
Speaker 5: Imagine that they had vendors there. You could rent one,

278
00:19:02,722 --> 00:19:04,842
Speaker 5: and you could just walk around and go through all

279
00:19:04,882 --> 00:19:08,562
Speaker 5: of the official, the state suites of rooms and see

280
00:19:08,562 --> 00:19:09,882
Speaker 5: how the royals lived.

281
00:19:10,122 --> 00:19:13,282
Speaker 2: Which frankly wasn't very glamorous.

282
00:19:13,122 --> 00:19:16,122
Speaker 5: And frankly, it was pretty stinky and pretty dirty because

283
00:19:16,162 --> 00:19:18,802
Speaker 5: all of the nobles felt that they were too high

284
00:19:18,882 --> 00:19:22,362
Speaker 5: placed in society to dust anything or lift a finger.

285
00:19:22,682 --> 00:19:24,442
Speaker 5: And there were no toilets at Versailles.

286
00:19:27,242 --> 00:19:31,682
Speaker 2: So Jean starts nosing around Versailles, and to her credit,

287
00:19:31,802 --> 00:19:35,642
Speaker 2: she tries to get the Queen's attention. No success there.

288
00:19:36,162 --> 00:19:39,402
Speaker 2: She's not really making much progress on the quest. The

289
00:19:39,442 --> 00:19:44,242
Speaker 2: cardinal Prince thinks she's on, but John is learning the

290
00:19:44,362 --> 00:19:47,962
Speaker 2: layout of the court, the little details that will really

291
00:19:48,122 --> 00:19:50,842
Speaker 2: sell the stories she feeds to the cardinal. When she

292
00:19:50,842 --> 00:19:54,922
Speaker 2: gets home and starts asking for money.

293
00:19:54,282 --> 00:19:58,602
Speaker 5: She decides to tell the Cardinal, well, you know, the Queen.

294
00:19:59,722 --> 00:20:02,602
Speaker 5: She wants to know she can trust you. So she

295
00:20:02,682 --> 00:20:05,722
Speaker 5: has this friend who's in deep financial distress and she

296
00:20:05,762 --> 00:20:08,162
Speaker 5: doesn't want to tell her husband, the king, about this,

297
00:20:08,282 --> 00:20:13,602
Speaker 5: so she only trusts me, and she needs sixty thousand francs,

298
00:20:14,162 --> 00:20:17,042
Speaker 5: and then the Cardinal ponies up the money while the

299
00:20:17,082 --> 00:20:20,002
Speaker 5: person in need is actually jam And then a few

300
00:20:20,002 --> 00:20:22,322
Speaker 5: months later it's fifty thousand francs, and a few months

301
00:20:22,362 --> 00:20:24,362
Speaker 5: after that it's one hundred thousand francs.

302
00:20:24,482 --> 00:20:28,442
Speaker 2: Jean keeps it going, seating her sob stories around Versailles.

303
00:20:28,922 --> 00:20:31,962
Speaker 2: She tells one noble her house burned down with all

304
00:20:32,042 --> 00:20:35,602
Speaker 2: her best serving wear inside, and gets a nice set

305
00:20:35,642 --> 00:20:39,402
Speaker 2: of china in return. Meanwhile, she and Nicolau get a

306
00:20:39,482 --> 00:20:43,442
Speaker 2: fancy Parisian townhouse with the Cardinal's money, outfitting it with

307
00:20:43,562 --> 00:20:48,482
Speaker 2: furniture from pawn chops. They're spending the Cardinal's allowance about

308
00:20:48,522 --> 00:20:51,722
Speaker 2: as quickly as they're able to ask for more, far

309
00:20:51,882 --> 00:20:55,762
Speaker 2: richer in their appearance than what's actually in their bank account,

310
00:20:56,402 --> 00:21:00,762
Speaker 2: but they're officially calling themselves the Countess and count de

311
00:21:00,882 --> 00:21:07,682
Speaker 2: la MoU Valois. The money is going towards one other

312
00:21:07,922 --> 00:21:14,722
Speaker 2: expensive pastime, impersonating Murray Antoinette. Remember this whole time, the

313
00:21:14,762 --> 00:21:18,562
Speaker 2: Cardinal is waiting on Jean to reintroduce him to the Queen.

314
00:21:19,282 --> 00:21:22,402
Speaker 2: Jean has no such way of doing that. She's never

315
00:21:22,522 --> 00:21:25,122
Speaker 2: met the Queen. She knows her about as well as

316
00:21:25,162 --> 00:21:29,962
Speaker 2: the Cardinal does, which is why Jean starts procuring responses

317
00:21:30,122 --> 00:21:33,602
Speaker 2: from the Queen the only way she can imagine. She

318
00:21:33,882 --> 00:21:35,202
Speaker 2: forges letters.

319
00:21:35,642 --> 00:21:38,522
Speaker 5: They get this expensive blue stationary, and she's never seen

320
00:21:38,562 --> 00:21:41,682
Speaker 5: Marie Antoinette's stationary. She's saying, who do a queen use

321
00:21:41,762 --> 00:21:42,162
Speaker 5: to write?

322
00:21:42,402 --> 00:21:42,682
Speaker 4: Then?

323
00:21:42,802 --> 00:21:44,762
Speaker 5: What do you think her handwriting looks like? What do

324
00:21:44,762 --> 00:21:46,002
Speaker 5: you think her signature looks like?

325
00:21:46,322 --> 00:21:50,642
Speaker 2: Jean gets Riteaux, Nicola's army buddy and her other lover

326
00:21:51,242 --> 00:21:54,602
Speaker 2: to help forge the signature on these letters.

327
00:21:55,002 --> 00:21:59,602
Speaker 3: She writes, I cannot disapprove of the desire you have

328
00:21:59,762 --> 00:22:04,442
Speaker 3: of seeing me, but you would not have me act

329
00:22:04,522 --> 00:22:09,762
Speaker 3: imprudently to bring about the compendiously a thing which you

330
00:22:10,282 --> 00:22:16,002
Speaker 3: must be persuaded you will shortly obtain in the interim.

331
00:22:16,602 --> 00:22:23,402
Speaker 3: Be very cautious, above all discrete, and as there is

332
00:22:23,442 --> 00:22:30,122
Speaker 3: no foreseeing what may happen, be reserved and greatly perplexed

333
00:22:30,162 --> 00:22:32,922
Speaker 3: in what you hereafter right.

334
00:22:33,122 --> 00:22:37,922
Speaker 2: To me, and the Cardinal falls for it. Hook Wine

335
00:22:38,042 --> 00:22:39,122
Speaker 2: and Sinker.

336
00:22:40,042 --> 00:22:43,482
Speaker 6: Is a charming countess. Has imparted to me. How much

337
00:22:43,482 --> 00:22:46,722
Speaker 6: you seem affected with the account she gave you of

338
00:22:46,762 --> 00:22:51,442
Speaker 6: the little services I have rendered her the concern alone

339
00:22:51,882 --> 00:22:57,202
Speaker 6: which she inspires induced me to seize every opportunity of

340
00:22:57,282 --> 00:23:03,042
Speaker 6: obliging her, For certainly I was very far from foreseeing

341
00:23:03,082 --> 00:23:06,162
Speaker 6: she will one day be in a capacity of mentioning

342
00:23:06,202 --> 00:23:10,082
Speaker 6: me to you in such a manner as to remove

343
00:23:10,202 --> 00:23:14,842
Speaker 6: the evil impressions which my enemies have ever given you

344
00:23:14,962 --> 00:23:22,322
Speaker 6: of my disposition. But hope begins to shine in my heart,

345
00:23:23,162 --> 00:23:26,442
Speaker 6: and I presume to singly you will not disdain to

346
00:23:26,522 --> 00:23:33,762
Speaker 6: hear me. Let, but your beauteous smith pronounce the world. Yes,

347
00:23:35,082 --> 00:23:38,922
Speaker 6: you will be hold your slave at your feet, and

348
00:23:39,122 --> 00:23:42,402
Speaker 6: this day will be the happiest of his life.

349
00:23:43,322 --> 00:23:48,562
Speaker 2: Jeanne as Marie Antoinette responds, assuring the Cardinal that he

350
00:23:48,602 --> 00:23:52,882
Speaker 2: has achieved the impossible task of falling back into her

351
00:23:52,882 --> 00:23:56,282
Speaker 2: good graces, all due to their mutual friend.

352
00:23:56,482 --> 00:24:00,842
Speaker 3: Of course, the account which the contest has given to

353
00:24:00,882 --> 00:24:04,642
Speaker 3: me of your behavior towards her has made a stronger

354
00:24:04,682 --> 00:24:07,962
Speaker 3: impression on me than all you have written to me.

355
00:24:08,762 --> 00:24:13,762
Speaker 2: Yes, that Countess is jean She's writing about herself.

356
00:24:14,522 --> 00:24:17,442
Speaker 3: I hope you will never forget that it is to

357
00:24:17,602 --> 00:24:22,442
Speaker 3: her you are indebted for her pardon, as also for

358
00:24:22,602 --> 00:24:26,522
Speaker 3: the letter I write to you. I have always looked

359
00:24:26,562 --> 00:24:33,362
Speaker 3: upon you as a very inconsistent and indiscreet man, Nothing

360
00:24:33,762 --> 00:24:37,122
Speaker 3: but a conduct quite the reverse of what you have

361
00:24:37,242 --> 00:24:41,482
Speaker 3: held can regain my confidence and merit my esteem.

362
00:24:42,962 --> 00:24:49,122
Speaker 6: Yes, I am the happiest motel breathing. My master pardons me.

363
00:24:49,602 --> 00:24:53,122
Speaker 6: I know how to appreciate all the obligations I am

364
00:24:53,162 --> 00:24:58,282
Speaker 6: on there to the charming Countess in whatever cityas I

365
00:24:58,442 --> 00:25:04,362
Speaker 6: may chance to be, I shall be gratefully mindful of

366
00:25:04,522 --> 00:25:07,882
Speaker 6: all that she has done in my behalf.

367
00:25:08,962 --> 00:25:13,722
Speaker 2: Jean has done it. She's convinced the Cardinal. He's corresponding

368
00:25:13,882 --> 00:25:14,882
Speaker 2: with the queen.

369
00:25:14,882 --> 00:25:17,122
Speaker 5: And the Cardinal is going, oh, I got this letter

370
00:25:17,122 --> 00:25:20,722
Speaker 5: from Marie Antoinette. She says this, this, this, and Jean's like,

371
00:25:20,802 --> 00:25:23,442
Speaker 5: oh really really all that's that's very interesting.

372
00:25:24,202 --> 00:25:28,162
Speaker 2: Of course, it's important to remember there's not one witness

373
00:25:28,282 --> 00:25:32,522
Speaker 2: to this tale. These letters are taken from Jean's memoirs,

374
00:25:33,002 --> 00:25:37,322
Speaker 2: so there her recollections of the letters she forged and

375
00:25:37,362 --> 00:25:41,922
Speaker 2: the ones she received from the Cardinal. But whatever their accuracy,

376
00:25:42,122 --> 00:25:44,722
Speaker 2: they could only go so far. In the spring of

377
00:25:44,762 --> 00:25:48,762
Speaker 2: seventeen eighty four months into this exchange of letters, the

378
00:25:48,802 --> 00:25:52,202
Speaker 2: Cardinal starts to get antsy. He hasn't seen the Queen

379
00:25:52,362 --> 00:25:56,882
Speaker 2: acknowledge this newfound relationship outside of their letters. What he

380
00:25:56,962 --> 00:26:01,922
Speaker 2: was after wasn't friendship. He wanted Marie Antoinette's support, her power,

381
00:26:02,122 --> 00:26:03,722
Speaker 2: whatever she could give him.

382
00:26:04,042 --> 00:26:07,802
Speaker 5: So jean is getting nervous that this law coan that

383
00:26:07,882 --> 00:26:09,722
Speaker 5: she's playing is going to blow up in her face.

384
00:26:10,642 --> 00:26:12,842
Speaker 5: So she realizes she has to up the ante a

385
00:26:12,842 --> 00:26:14,962
Speaker 5: little or she's going to lose the trust of the Cardinal.

386
00:26:16,042 --> 00:26:20,082
Speaker 5: So she said, well, you know, the Queen is known

387
00:26:20,162 --> 00:26:25,962
Speaker 5: for taking midnight strolls behind the palace and the grove

388
00:26:26,042 --> 00:26:30,042
Speaker 5: of Venus. So now she said, well, let me set

389
00:26:30,122 --> 00:26:32,602
Speaker 5: up a secret rendezvoust for you with the Queen.

390
00:26:33,322 --> 00:26:36,682
Speaker 2: It was one thing to sign Marie Antoinette's name at

391
00:26:36,722 --> 00:26:40,002
Speaker 2: the bottom of a piece of paper, but to impersonate

392
00:26:40,082 --> 00:26:43,402
Speaker 2: her in the flesh, jean is going to need a miracle.

393
00:26:44,082 --> 00:26:48,762
Speaker 2: Roteau finds his Nicolaus and Jean's saving grace in the

394
00:26:48,802 --> 00:26:52,842
Speaker 2: form of Nicole Legay, a sex worker with a striking

395
00:26:52,922 --> 00:26:55,402
Speaker 2: resemblance to Marie Antoinette.

396
00:26:56,242 --> 00:26:58,762
Speaker 5: Jeanne says, I have a very important assignment for you,

397
00:26:59,162 --> 00:27:02,122
Speaker 5: and she tells her that we're going to go to

398
00:27:02,242 --> 00:27:05,402
Speaker 5: Versailles and you are going to engage in a midnight

399
00:27:05,482 --> 00:27:07,882
Speaker 5: Rendevoult with a very important man, and you're going to

400
00:27:07,922 --> 00:27:10,282
Speaker 5: give him a pink rose, and you're going to give

401
00:27:10,362 --> 00:27:13,082
Speaker 5: him a letter, and with the letter, you're going to say,

402
00:27:13,682 --> 00:27:15,362
Speaker 5: you know what this means.

403
00:27:16,762 --> 00:27:20,442
Speaker 2: So they dress Nicole up like the Queen. They give

404
00:27:20,482 --> 00:27:24,002
Speaker 2: her this white linen dress with big puffy sleeves in

405
00:27:24,042 --> 00:27:26,682
Speaker 2: the style the Queen like to wear, and a big

406
00:27:26,762 --> 00:27:30,162
Speaker 2: hat and a cloak so the Cardinal can't look too

407
00:27:30,362 --> 00:27:31,682
Speaker 2: closely at her face.

408
00:27:32,322 --> 00:27:36,962
Speaker 5: And she meets the Cardinal Deroent at midnight and the

409
00:27:37,642 --> 00:27:41,442
Speaker 5: grove of Venus behind Versailles, and she forgets to give

410
00:27:41,482 --> 00:27:43,402
Speaker 5: him a letter. So we don't know what was in

411
00:27:43,442 --> 00:27:47,762
Speaker 5: the letter, but ostensibly it was supposedly a forged I

412
00:27:47,802 --> 00:27:52,442
Speaker 5: forgive you kind of note, and she does. She thrusts

413
00:27:52,482 --> 00:27:55,682
Speaker 5: the pink rose at him. The Cardinal falls at her feet,

414
00:27:55,842 --> 00:27:58,522
Speaker 5: thinking that it's Marie Antoinette, of course, and he kisses

415
00:27:58,562 --> 00:28:01,442
Speaker 5: her slipper and he call does her job, and she

416
00:28:01,562 --> 00:28:06,202
Speaker 5: has now tricked the Cardinal into thinking that Marie Antoinette

417
00:28:06,322 --> 00:28:09,122
Speaker 5: has forgive given him all of his dress passes forever.

418
00:28:09,362 --> 00:28:12,562
Speaker 5: Everything is wonderful. Now we're onto the next part of

419
00:28:12,602 --> 00:28:16,442
Speaker 5: the con, the con that Jean never expected to have.

420
00:28:17,042 --> 00:28:19,882
Speaker 5: Now we come to the affair of the diamond necks.

421
00:28:22,442 --> 00:28:26,282
Speaker 2: This affair starts one smoky and glitzy night at one

422
00:28:26,322 --> 00:28:30,282
Speaker 2: of Jean's dinner parties. Among her many guests is a

423
00:28:30,402 --> 00:28:34,722
Speaker 2: lawyer who starts talking about two of his clients, Boehmer

424
00:28:34,842 --> 00:28:38,962
Speaker 2: and Bassinge, jewelers to the Crown. They're in a bit

425
00:28:39,002 --> 00:28:39,642
Speaker 2: of a pickle.

426
00:28:41,402 --> 00:28:45,642
Speaker 5: There are two Swiss German Jews who have sunk almost

427
00:28:45,682 --> 00:28:49,682
Speaker 5: all of their money into a twenty eight hundred carrot

428
00:28:50,202 --> 00:28:54,482
Speaker 5: diamond necklace called the Slave's Collar. It is massive. On

429
00:28:55,562 --> 00:28:59,402
Speaker 5: any normal human, it would go around your neck and

430
00:28:59,482 --> 00:29:05,802
Speaker 5: practically fall to your waist. It is diamond and baby

431
00:29:05,882 --> 00:29:09,882
Speaker 5: blue enameled bows and loops and pendants.

432
00:29:10,362 --> 00:29:13,762
Speaker 2: They had made the necklace ten years ago for Madame

433
00:29:13,842 --> 00:29:19,042
Speaker 2: Duberry Louis, the fifteenth Mistress, but before they'd gotten the

434
00:29:19,162 --> 00:29:23,202
Speaker 2: chance to sell it to him, Louis died, leaving them

435
00:29:23,402 --> 00:29:28,522
Speaker 2: with the necklace. The necklace, two thousand and eight hundred carrots,

436
00:29:29,242 --> 00:29:31,602
Speaker 2: was breathtaking.

437
00:29:32,122 --> 00:29:34,722
Speaker 5: And it's probably one of the ugliest things you've ever seen.

438
00:29:42,042 --> 00:29:44,882
Speaker 2: Jean de Valois san Remi had caught wind of a

439
00:29:44,922 --> 00:29:49,602
Speaker 2: necklace worth an unimaginable amount of money. If she could

440
00:29:49,602 --> 00:29:53,002
Speaker 2: get her hands on it, leveraging her relationship with the

441
00:29:53,002 --> 00:29:56,682
Speaker 2: cardinals she's worked so hard to strengthen, all of her

442
00:29:56,682 --> 00:30:00,402
Speaker 2: money woes would be over. The affair of the diamond

443
00:30:00,562 --> 00:30:04,762
Speaker 2: necklace is now in full swing, and it's time to

444
00:30:04,842 --> 00:30:09,482
Speaker 2: meet the shining jewel of this whole episode, the necklace itself.

445
00:30:10,242 --> 00:30:14,922
Speaker 2: And well, this fabled necklace, it's more of a chest piece.

446
00:30:15,402 --> 00:30:19,642
Speaker 2: It's got this enormous choker of oval stones across the top,

447
00:30:20,002 --> 00:30:24,482
Speaker 2: and then there's another necklace entirely connected to it. These

448
00:30:24,642 --> 00:30:30,082
Speaker 2: clunky cross body straps collarbone to belly button are riddled

449
00:30:30,162 --> 00:30:35,242
Speaker 2: with these huge, thick cut diamonds. Each strand ends in

450
00:30:35,362 --> 00:30:40,162
Speaker 2: a faux tassel, also of diamonds, and each tassel is

451
00:30:40,242 --> 00:30:45,722
Speaker 2: gilded with a little horrendous baby blue gemstone bow.

452
00:30:48,122 --> 00:30:52,922
Speaker 5: But they had paid a fortune to create it, because

453
00:30:53,242 --> 00:30:56,962
Speaker 5: twenty eight hundred carrots, that's diamonds of the first water.

454
00:30:57,082 --> 00:31:01,202
Speaker 5: So they're desperate for a client, and they say to Jean,

455
00:31:01,322 --> 00:31:03,442
Speaker 5: I don't know, you know the Queen, would the queen

456
00:31:03,482 --> 00:31:11,002
Speaker 5: wanted and chance as well? I don't know. I could

457
00:31:11,122 --> 00:31:13,402
Speaker 5: ask her. Of course, she's never met the Queen.

458
00:31:13,482 --> 00:31:18,202
Speaker 2: We know this, Marie Antoinette had already turned the necklace

459
00:31:18,322 --> 00:31:23,042
Speaker 2: down for several possible reasons. One it was made for

460
00:31:23,122 --> 00:31:28,162
Speaker 2: her grandfather in law's mistress, Two it was ugly, and

461
00:31:28,362 --> 00:31:33,602
Speaker 2: three it was ridiculously expensive. Marie Antoinette, of all people,

462
00:31:33,882 --> 00:31:36,602
Speaker 2: was not in the business of giving the French people

463
00:31:37,162 --> 00:31:41,362
Speaker 2: more ammunition to hate her. With her expensive taste had

464
00:31:41,402 --> 00:31:45,442
Speaker 2: already incurred their wrath, but for Jean it was still

465
00:31:45,562 --> 00:31:47,202
Speaker 2: the perfect opportunity.

466
00:31:47,962 --> 00:31:52,842
Speaker 5: She says, uh, this is interesting. It might not be

467
00:31:52,922 --> 00:31:55,962
Speaker 5: a necklace for a Bourbon, but it's a necklace for

468
00:31:56,082 --> 00:32:02,402
Speaker 5: a Valois. Well, she goes to the cardinal and she says,

469
00:32:03,482 --> 00:32:08,322
Speaker 5: Marie Antoinette is far too anxios to tell the king

470
00:32:08,362 --> 00:32:11,682
Speaker 5: because you know how famous she is for extravagance, and

471
00:32:11,722 --> 00:32:14,242
Speaker 5: she's in so much hot water because of all the

472
00:32:14,362 --> 00:32:17,802
Speaker 5: dresses and the furbilows and the hats, and the expenses

473
00:32:17,802 --> 00:32:20,122
Speaker 5: and the jewelry and that she buys, and you know,

474
00:32:20,362 --> 00:32:24,202
Speaker 5: the public is now turning against her, and she really

475
00:32:24,242 --> 00:32:28,042
Speaker 5: has to be very careful with her expenditures. And she

476
00:32:28,122 --> 00:32:31,002
Speaker 5: really wants this diamond necklace. There's nothing else like it

477
00:32:31,042 --> 00:32:33,082
Speaker 5: in the world. But she trusts you to be so

478
00:32:33,282 --> 00:32:36,962
Speaker 5: discreet that if you would buy it on her behalf

479
00:32:37,322 --> 00:32:40,722
Speaker 5: as the go between the interlocutor, and then give it

480
00:32:40,722 --> 00:32:43,722
Speaker 5: to me and I will bring it to her, then

481
00:32:43,802 --> 00:32:47,242
Speaker 5: nobody need know that she's the one that really bought

482
00:32:47,242 --> 00:32:47,802
Speaker 5: the necklace.

483
00:32:51,242 --> 00:32:55,482
Speaker 2: Now the cardinal had money, well, he had had money,

484
00:32:55,922 --> 00:33:00,242
Speaker 2: he certainly didn't have the jeweler's asking price one million,

485
00:33:00,402 --> 00:33:06,042
Speaker 2: eight hundred thousand livre just under fifteen million dollars today.

486
00:33:07,042 --> 00:33:10,482
Speaker 2: This was what the queen wanted, right, and what the

487
00:33:10,562 --> 00:33:14,882
Speaker 2: queen wanted he wanted a favor like this could settle

488
00:33:14,882 --> 00:33:19,042
Speaker 2: the score forever. So the deal is set. The Cardinal

489
00:33:19,042 --> 00:33:22,922
Speaker 2: agrees to pay the jewelers in installments, while the necklace

490
00:33:23,002 --> 00:33:27,402
Speaker 2: itself is given to jean She, of course promises to

491
00:33:27,682 --> 00:33:29,882
Speaker 2: discreetly deliver it to the Queen.

492
00:33:31,122 --> 00:33:35,042
Speaker 5: Now, I will ask our audience to give me a

493
00:33:35,122 --> 00:33:38,002
Speaker 5: show of hands of how many people really think that

494
00:33:38,042 --> 00:33:41,922
Speaker 5: this necklace made its way from Jeanne to Marie Antoinette. Okay,

495
00:33:42,002 --> 00:33:43,042
Speaker 5: none of you believed, right.

496
00:33:44,282 --> 00:33:47,722
Speaker 2: Jeanne got her end of the bargain, the diamond necklace

497
00:33:47,882 --> 00:33:51,722
Speaker 2: in her hands, but it never went to the queen. Instead,

498
00:33:51,802 --> 00:33:54,722
Speaker 2: she passed it off to her partners in crime. Nicola

499
00:33:54,802 --> 00:33:55,442
Speaker 2: and Riteau.

500
00:33:56,402 --> 00:34:02,442
Speaker 5: So what happened was Nicola de l'amotte and Rete olivierte

501
00:34:03,402 --> 00:34:09,642
Speaker 5: very carefully and sometimes not so carefully, prized each one

502
00:34:09,762 --> 00:34:14,002
Speaker 5: of these hundreds of stones out of their setting and

503
00:34:14,082 --> 00:34:17,922
Speaker 5: started to hawk them all over the place.

504
00:34:18,162 --> 00:34:21,362
Speaker 2: Nicolaus sets sail to London with a bag of diamonds,

505
00:34:21,722 --> 00:34:24,602
Speaker 2: and if anyone asks him where they come from, he says,

506
00:34:24,722 --> 00:34:29,802
Speaker 2: it's a surprise inheritance. Meanwhile, the jewelers are already knocking

507
00:34:29,842 --> 00:34:34,242
Speaker 2: down the cardinal's door trying to collect. When nothing comes through,

508
00:34:34,762 --> 00:34:38,322
Speaker 2: they take the matter directly up the chain of command.

509
00:34:39,522 --> 00:34:44,362
Speaker 5: So they write a letter to Marie Antoinette and her

510
00:34:44,722 --> 00:34:48,162
Speaker 5: lady in waiting, Madam kemp All, receives it and reads

511
00:34:48,202 --> 00:34:51,202
Speaker 5: it to her and said what is this about? And

512
00:34:51,282 --> 00:34:55,362
Speaker 5: Ryan Tooinette said, I have absolutely no idea what they

513
00:34:55,362 --> 00:34:57,242
Speaker 5: are talking about. It must be some kind of a joke.

514
00:34:57,522 --> 00:35:00,442
Speaker 5: And she takes this letter written to her by the

515
00:35:00,482 --> 00:35:02,882
Speaker 5: two jewelers and she rolls it up and she throws

516
00:35:02,922 --> 00:35:05,242
Speaker 5: it into the fireplace. So puff up and smoke.

517
00:35:08,682 --> 00:35:11,562
Speaker 2: When a few more days go by without a response,

518
00:35:11,722 --> 00:35:15,042
Speaker 2: the jewelers forego the letter and show up in person.

519
00:35:15,642 --> 00:35:18,442
Speaker 2: The necklace makers have sunk all of their money into

520
00:35:18,482 --> 00:35:21,042
Speaker 2: this piece of jewelry, and now they don't have the

521
00:35:21,122 --> 00:35:26,202
Speaker 2: money or the necklace. Marie Antoinette has no idea. This

522
00:35:26,442 --> 00:35:29,682
Speaker 2: entire plot has taken place under her name, and she

523
00:35:29,882 --> 00:35:32,922
Speaker 2: just burned the only notice she would have gotten about it.

524
00:35:34,402 --> 00:35:37,362
Speaker 2: The jeweler takes out the contract he was given for

525
00:35:37,442 --> 00:35:38,522
Speaker 2: his necklace.

526
00:35:38,482 --> 00:35:42,882
Speaker 5: And the contract is signed Marie Antoinette de France. She

527
00:35:42,962 --> 00:35:45,882
Speaker 5: looks at this contract and she said, you must know

528
00:35:46,922 --> 00:35:52,562
Speaker 5: that signature is a forgery. Royals never sign their name

529
00:35:52,602 --> 00:35:56,562
Speaker 5: with the country that they are the sovereign of. I

530
00:35:56,602 --> 00:36:01,202
Speaker 5: would only sign my name Marie Antoinette, son Marie Antoinette

531
00:36:01,282 --> 00:36:07,202
Speaker 5: of France. Obviously I am of France. So now the

532
00:36:07,282 --> 00:36:14,242
Speaker 5: jeweler realizes how dep is in this that he that

533
00:36:14,362 --> 00:36:16,922
Speaker 5: everybody on his end has been the dupe of a

534
00:36:17,042 --> 00:36:24,082
Speaker 5: forged contract. No money, no necklace, fake contract. Who was

535
00:36:24,162 --> 00:36:30,202
Speaker 5: responsible for this clearly not the queen, and he mentions

536
00:36:30,322 --> 00:36:36,042
Speaker 5: this Jean de la Motte Contesse de Valois. And she said,

537
00:36:36,082 --> 00:36:39,762
Speaker 5: I have never heard of that woman. I have never

538
00:36:40,002 --> 00:36:45,202
Speaker 5: met that woman. And the jeweler says, well, the cardinal insists,

539
00:36:45,282 --> 00:36:50,722
Speaker 5: you are intimates that she said absolutely not, no, none

540
00:36:50,762 --> 00:36:51,762
Speaker 5: of this is true.

541
00:36:52,202 --> 00:36:55,042
Speaker 2: The alarm bells are going off. But how do you

542
00:36:55,082 --> 00:36:58,682
Speaker 2: go about tracking down a con artist who you've never

543
00:36:58,762 --> 00:37:05,322
Speaker 2: even heard of, much less met. It's now August fifteenth,

544
00:37:05,562 --> 00:37:09,522
Speaker 2: seventeen eighty five, the feast of the Assumption of Mary,

545
00:37:10,042 --> 00:37:12,962
Speaker 2: and it's a big day for the Cardinal, one of

546
00:37:13,002 --> 00:37:16,722
Speaker 2: his biggest masses of the year. Louis the sixteenth and

547
00:37:16,842 --> 00:37:21,122
Speaker 2: Marie Antoinette are supposed to attend themselves. It's all gold,

548
00:37:21,322 --> 00:37:26,722
Speaker 2: incense and excitement. But that afternoon, instead of officiating behind

549
00:37:26,842 --> 00:37:31,842
Speaker 2: the ambo, the Cardinal finds himself in Louis the Sixteenth's study,

550
00:37:32,482 --> 00:37:36,722
Speaker 2: staring white faced down at the faded contract.

551
00:37:37,442 --> 00:37:41,162
Speaker 5: Louis is, you are a prince of the church and

552
00:37:41,242 --> 00:37:45,562
Speaker 5: a prince in nobility. You know how royals signed their names.

553
00:37:45,602 --> 00:37:48,162
Speaker 5: How could you be taken in? How could you be

554
00:37:48,242 --> 00:37:53,922
Speaker 5: such a credulous idiot? And he sits down at a

555
00:37:53,962 --> 00:37:59,802
Speaker 5: table and he heeds Louis's request to basically write down

556
00:37:59,842 --> 00:38:03,442
Speaker 5: an affidavit that explains every single thing that took place,

557
00:38:03,482 --> 00:38:04,442
Speaker 5: from soup to nuts.

558
00:38:05,002 --> 00:38:08,482
Speaker 2: Now the Cardinal and the jeweler have given their statements,

559
00:38:09,042 --> 00:38:12,962
Speaker 2: Jean figures heavily but that's not enough for the royals,

560
00:38:13,322 --> 00:38:18,162
Speaker 2: especially for Marie Antoinette. Discontent is brewing and she won't

561
00:38:18,162 --> 00:38:21,562
Speaker 2: stand to see her name dragged through the mud anymore

562
00:38:21,602 --> 00:38:22,922
Speaker 2: than it already has been.

563
00:38:23,402 --> 00:38:28,402
Speaker 5: So the Cardinal is arrested right in the middle of

564
00:38:28,442 --> 00:38:31,322
Speaker 5: the Hall of Mirrors at Lsall, and it could not

565
00:38:31,482 --> 00:38:34,362
Speaker 5: be a more public place if you have ever been there.

566
00:38:35,002 --> 00:38:38,442
Speaker 5: All eyes literally of people, but all the mirrors and

567
00:38:38,522 --> 00:38:42,122
Speaker 5: everything I mean is magnified to the inth degree. Are watching.

568
00:38:42,522 --> 00:38:45,682
Speaker 5: This guy still has all the respect of all these people,

569
00:38:45,762 --> 00:38:47,882
Speaker 5: more so than the crown at this point.

570
00:38:48,442 --> 00:38:51,842
Speaker 2: One thing to note Maris never had an easy go

571
00:38:52,002 --> 00:38:55,722
Speaker 2: of it exactly. Other than being a literal queen to

572
00:38:55,882 --> 00:38:59,442
Speaker 2: one of the most powerful monarchies in France, she had

573
00:38:59,602 --> 00:39:03,082
Speaker 2: little love from her people or the French nobility.

574
00:39:05,202 --> 00:39:08,602
Speaker 5: Marie Antoinette has been blamed since the time she came

575
00:39:08,642 --> 00:39:13,002
Speaker 5: to Austrian seventeen seventy as an outsider. They made a

576
00:39:13,042 --> 00:39:17,122
Speaker 5: pun on her name as Lutricienne, which is the word

577
00:39:17,162 --> 00:39:21,682
Speaker 5: for an Austrian female. But Chienne in French is bitch,

578
00:39:22,242 --> 00:39:27,562
Speaker 5: so Lutrichien is the Austrian bitch, and that is how

579
00:39:27,602 --> 00:39:31,402
Speaker 5: she was nicknamed all even through the French court. So

580
00:39:31,882 --> 00:39:34,042
Speaker 5: I mean she was even mocked because she had strawberry

581
00:39:34,042 --> 00:39:38,882
Speaker 5: blonde hair. This poor woman could not win ever, I

582
00:39:38,922 --> 00:39:41,602
Speaker 5: mean she could wash the feet of every noble in

583
00:39:41,922 --> 00:39:46,442
Speaker 5: the Hall of mirrors while the cardinal was busy picking

584
00:39:46,482 --> 00:39:50,722
Speaker 5: their pockets, and the cardinal would still be immortalized in

585
00:39:50,802 --> 00:39:54,122
Speaker 5: Marie antoinette Villefi. This is the mood in France at

586
00:39:54,122 --> 00:39:54,562
Speaker 5: the time.

587
00:39:55,482 --> 00:40:02,442
Speaker 2: Back to the Hall of Mirrors in Versailles. The cardinals

588
00:40:02,562 --> 00:40:06,282
Speaker 2: under arrest, but he reaches into his stocking where he's

589
00:40:06,322 --> 00:40:09,642
Speaker 2: got a little pencil and a little notebook stashed away.

590
00:40:10,242 --> 00:40:13,562
Speaker 2: He writes a note to his confidants to burn all

591
00:40:13,642 --> 00:40:18,482
Speaker 2: his papers, all of his letters from the queen. By

592
00:40:18,522 --> 00:40:22,002
Speaker 2: this point, the authorities are also out looking for the

593
00:40:22,042 --> 00:40:26,882
Speaker 2: people named in the cardinal's statement. Riteau and Nicole Legee

594
00:40:27,082 --> 00:40:31,082
Speaker 2: run for the border. Even poor Caliostro and his wife

595
00:40:31,162 --> 00:40:35,362
Speaker 2: were arrested. Jean's rounded up, but not before she gets

596
00:40:35,362 --> 00:40:38,722
Speaker 2: a chance to tell Nikola to flee out the window

597
00:40:39,162 --> 00:40:41,002
Speaker 2: with all of the goods he can carry.

598
00:40:42,882 --> 00:40:47,362
Speaker 5: The cardinal is ultimately taken to the bastille, as is Jeanne,

599
00:40:48,522 --> 00:40:51,002
Speaker 5: and it's very interesting what happens.

600
00:40:51,962 --> 00:40:55,682
Speaker 2: Sure the cardinal gets special treatment, gets good food and

601
00:40:55,802 --> 00:40:59,122
Speaker 2: luxuries from his noble relatives who come to visit him.

602
00:40:59,442 --> 00:41:03,482
Speaker 2: But the proletariat, the common folk, they start to take

603
00:41:03,522 --> 00:41:06,842
Speaker 2: an interest in this story too. They hear the cardinals

604
00:41:07,042 --> 00:41:10,042
Speaker 2: been having to sleep on a straw bed like the

605
00:41:10,122 --> 00:41:12,882
Speaker 2: other prisoners at his advanced age.

606
00:41:13,202 --> 00:41:18,562
Speaker 5: So the women start wearing these straw hats with red ribbons,

607
00:41:18,602 --> 00:41:22,242
Speaker 5: because red is the color of a cardinal's cassock. So

608
00:41:22,282 --> 00:41:25,762
Speaker 5: they start wearing them, and they're called biretta a la cardinal,

609
00:41:26,442 --> 00:41:30,202
Speaker 5: and it just gets out of he and everybody believes

610
00:41:30,762 --> 00:41:34,762
Speaker 5: that it must be that Marie Antoinette really coveted the necklace.

611
00:41:34,762 --> 00:41:36,962
Speaker 5: Regardless of what these other people are saying.

612
00:41:37,002 --> 00:41:40,762
Speaker 2: The general sentiment of the time only fanned the flames.

613
00:41:41,242 --> 00:41:44,482
Speaker 2: A funny thing about the French justice system of the time,

614
00:41:44,962 --> 00:41:49,882
Speaker 2: lawyers couldn't actually be in the same room as their defendants.

615
00:41:49,682 --> 00:41:52,682
Speaker 5: So what they did the witnesses gave statements, and the

616
00:41:52,722 --> 00:41:55,322
Speaker 5: witnesses could question each other, so they would get into

617
00:41:55,362 --> 00:41:58,042
Speaker 5: these shouting matches between Joan and the cardinal and you

618
00:41:58,122 --> 00:41:59,842
Speaker 5: said what, and you did this, and you did it.

619
00:42:00,322 --> 00:42:03,362
Speaker 5: And the lawyers would write these quote trial briefs that

620
00:42:03,402 --> 00:42:06,162
Speaker 5: were pure fictions, because all they were intended to do

621
00:42:06,242 --> 00:42:09,362
Speaker 5: is exonerate their own clients, and they would sell them

622
00:42:09,722 --> 00:42:13,602
Speaker 5: on the streets or in bookstalls, or you know, like

623
00:42:13,722 --> 00:42:17,402
Speaker 5: kids hawking the nightly paper on the street, and they

624
00:42:17,522 --> 00:42:18,962
Speaker 5: sold like hotcakes.

625
00:42:21,882 --> 00:42:24,882
Speaker 2: The scandal was going down in one of the most

626
00:42:25,082 --> 00:42:29,882
Speaker 2: legitimate gossip mills of history. The closest the public could

627
00:42:29,962 --> 00:42:32,522
Speaker 2: get to what went down in the courtroom were these

628
00:42:32,642 --> 00:42:36,242
Speaker 2: lawyer briefs. And the closest the lawyers could get to

629
00:42:36,442 --> 00:42:39,922
Speaker 2: what went down in the courtroom were their clients, the

630
00:42:40,002 --> 00:42:43,922
Speaker 2: same people trying to clear their own names, the same

631
00:42:43,962 --> 00:42:48,482
Speaker 2: people who had built the entire scandal on forgeries and lies.

632
00:42:49,042 --> 00:42:53,442
Speaker 5: It's interesting because there isn't one reliable source for this

633
00:42:53,562 --> 00:42:56,602
Speaker 5: whole story. All the stories that have come down to

634
00:42:56,682 --> 00:43:01,642
Speaker 5: us were written either after the fact or were written

635
00:43:01,722 --> 00:43:07,362
Speaker 5: solely to propagandize the person who was the center of story.

636
00:43:08,082 --> 00:43:12,562
Speaker 5: And all of them pointed fingers at each other, and

637
00:43:12,682 --> 00:43:16,042
Speaker 5: all of them lied like crazy, and all of them

638
00:43:16,082 --> 00:43:17,722
Speaker 5: threw each other under the bus.

639
00:43:19,882 --> 00:43:22,562
Speaker 2: So how did all of these players shake out? In

640
00:43:22,602 --> 00:43:27,802
Speaker 2: the end, Calostro our Alchemist was acquitted and released to

641
00:43:27,962 --> 00:43:31,162
Speaker 2: return to pooling. The rich people of France once more.

642
00:43:31,602 --> 00:43:36,122
Speaker 2: Nicole Lega was also acquitted. Riteau was banished, but good

643
00:43:36,202 --> 00:43:39,362
Speaker 2: luck finding him. The cardinal had to give up his

644
00:43:39,482 --> 00:43:45,322
Speaker 2: ecclesiastical offices and make a public apology for disrespecting the crown.

645
00:43:46,162 --> 00:43:50,882
Speaker 2: Nicola got a heavier sentence, all of his property forfeited

646
00:43:50,882 --> 00:43:55,602
Speaker 2: to the crown, and a public punishment of scorching, whipping,

647
00:43:55,842 --> 00:44:00,042
Speaker 2: and branding. Luckily for him, he had taken Jean's advice

648
00:44:00,522 --> 00:44:05,522
Speaker 2: and fled when he had the chance. Jean wasn't so lucky.

649
00:44:06,002 --> 00:44:10,562
Speaker 2: She got a similar punishment, to be whipped publicly and

650
00:44:10,722 --> 00:44:17,442
Speaker 2: branded with vo l values or thief. Since Jean's case

651
00:44:17,522 --> 00:44:21,482
Speaker 2: had already kicked up so much interest, officials tried to

652
00:44:21,602 --> 00:44:25,682
Speaker 2: keep her public punishment under wraps, but it wasn't enough.

653
00:44:26,202 --> 00:44:29,282
Speaker 2: Jean was the talk of the town and people were

654
00:44:29,442 --> 00:44:32,202
Speaker 2: jumping at the chance to see her in person.

655
00:44:32,762 --> 00:44:37,082
Speaker 5: They sold tickets. Tickets for the trial were pricey. It

656
00:44:37,162 --> 00:44:40,042
Speaker 5: was like buying tickets to the Super Bowl. Absurd prices,

657
00:44:40,122 --> 00:44:44,122
Speaker 5: scalpers prices. Because normal citizens were trying to buy tickets

658
00:44:44,122 --> 00:44:48,762
Speaker 5: to the trial, especially aristocrats. Jean was screaming and yelling,

659
00:44:49,442 --> 00:44:51,722
Speaker 5: help me, help me. It is the blood of the Valois.

660
00:44:52,242 --> 00:44:54,762
Speaker 5: They're desecrating You heard that right.

661
00:44:55,282 --> 00:44:59,402
Speaker 2: Even as she's being publicly humiliated, even as a hot

662
00:44:59,522 --> 00:45:03,042
Speaker 2: iron is being pressed to her skin, Jean is still

663
00:45:03,122 --> 00:45:05,802
Speaker 2: carrying on about her supposed nobility.

664
00:45:06,962 --> 00:45:11,002
Speaker 5: Anybody who thinks the John was this woman of the

665
00:45:11,122 --> 00:45:15,882
Speaker 5: people who would have supported the destruction of the Bastille

666
00:45:16,602 --> 00:45:21,402
Speaker 5: not three years later. This woman wanted to claim her

667
00:45:21,562 --> 00:45:25,602
Speaker 5: royal lineage. This woman wanted to walk through the halls

668
00:45:25,602 --> 00:45:28,122
Speaker 5: of Versailles and say, hey, hey, I'm one of you.

669
00:45:28,842 --> 00:45:31,282
Speaker 5: She did not want to say I'm a woman of

670
00:45:31,322 --> 00:45:34,842
Speaker 5: the people, because the first thing that happened during the

671
00:45:34,882 --> 00:45:38,362
Speaker 5: French Revolution was the abolishing of royal titles. She would

672
00:45:38,402 --> 00:45:40,002
Speaker 5: not have been able to be the contest de la

673
00:45:40,042 --> 00:45:41,682
Speaker 5: mad Valois. She would have been one of the first

674
00:45:41,682 --> 00:45:42,882
Speaker 5: people taken to the guillotine.

675
00:45:43,442 --> 00:45:46,162
Speaker 2: But as Jean's luck would have it, she'd never have

676
00:45:46,322 --> 00:45:49,482
Speaker 2: to see the powder keg she'd stuffed full of forged

677
00:45:49,602 --> 00:45:55,402
Speaker 2: letters actually go up in flames. In seventeen ninety, someone

678
00:45:55,642 --> 00:45:59,482
Speaker 2: springs her from her prison cell, apparently disguising her as

679
00:45:59,522 --> 00:46:02,082
Speaker 2: a boy to get her out of the city. She

680
00:46:02,242 --> 00:46:05,482
Speaker 2: escapes to London, where some nobles host her as a

681
00:46:05,522 --> 00:46:08,962
Speaker 2: guest but by the summer of the next year, we're

682
00:46:09,082 --> 00:46:13,042
Speaker 2: back at the top of our story. Jean's scribbling away

683
00:46:13,162 --> 00:46:18,442
Speaker 2: in some CD hotel room, writing her memoirs. According to her,

684
00:46:18,642 --> 00:46:20,402
Speaker 2: it's a harrowing experience.

685
00:46:21,362 --> 00:46:25,602
Speaker 3: How often did the pen drop from my hand? How

686
00:46:25,682 --> 00:46:28,842
Speaker 3: often would the word blotted out by mighty ears?

687
00:46:29,402 --> 00:46:32,802
Speaker 2: But she finds the strength to publish them without too

688
00:46:32,922 --> 00:46:33,642
Speaker 2: much issue.

689
00:46:34,762 --> 00:46:38,282
Speaker 3: I have taken up my pen and for going sleeping,

690
00:46:38,882 --> 00:46:42,482
Speaker 3: forgoing the impertinate cares of a boat brought to decay.

691
00:46:43,282 --> 00:46:46,402
Speaker 3: I will not lay it down till I have eased

692
00:46:46,482 --> 00:46:51,002
Speaker 3: my soul of its overwhelming load. The public must at

693
00:46:51,122 --> 00:46:56,122
Speaker 3: length pronounce between hermagiste and the atom she has crushed.

694
00:46:57,122 --> 00:47:01,882
Speaker 3: No matter truth has is false, grief has its eloquence.

695
00:47:02,922 --> 00:47:07,522
Speaker 3: I shall therefore write.

696
00:47:06,402 --> 00:47:09,362
Speaker 2: In her memory. No Jean weaves a tale of a

697
00:47:09,482 --> 00:47:15,002
Speaker 2: young woman destined for greatness. It's the valeoirs name, after all.

698
00:47:14,842 --> 00:47:19,562
Speaker 3: That accounts for the first act of my life, justifies

699
00:47:19,602 --> 00:47:25,402
Speaker 3: the deviations of natural ambition, and gives a conception why

700
00:47:25,842 --> 00:47:32,602
Speaker 3: scarce emerged from obscurity. Jeanne de Saint Remi du Valois

701
00:47:33,002 --> 00:47:37,082
Speaker 3: caught it favor in order to recover the rank to

702
00:47:37,162 --> 00:47:39,282
Speaker 3: which she was by birth.

703
00:47:39,722 --> 00:47:44,762
Speaker 2: Entitled Jean in this recollection, stumbled into the open arms

704
00:47:44,802 --> 00:47:49,242
Speaker 2: of the Cardinal Prince. And yes, she admits she joined

705
00:47:49,322 --> 00:47:52,442
Speaker 2: forces with him, but it was only to further her

706
00:47:52,562 --> 00:47:54,562
Speaker 2: true and valorous ambition.

707
00:47:55,762 --> 00:48:01,562
Speaker 3: I had no secrets concealed from him, e none from me.

708
00:48:03,002 --> 00:48:10,562
Speaker 3: We mutually read each other's mind aspective ambition. Ease was

709
00:48:10,602 --> 00:48:17,682
Speaker 3: to become prime Minister. Mine had no further views than

710
00:48:17,722 --> 00:48:19,962
Speaker 3: to be lady of the Manoir of Frontete.

711
00:48:20,562 --> 00:48:24,362
Speaker 2: In this version, the Cardinal tells Jean that the Queen

712
00:48:24,682 --> 00:48:28,762
Speaker 2: has a vested interest in her, that there's something about

713
00:48:28,922 --> 00:48:33,442
Speaker 2: her that pleases the Queen. So Jean becomes a courier

714
00:48:33,562 --> 00:48:38,082
Speaker 2: between the Queen, an absent minded gossip, and the Cardinal,

715
00:48:38,562 --> 00:48:43,842
Speaker 2: a lascivious worm whose ill intent pours out into his letters.

716
00:48:44,562 --> 00:48:49,442
Speaker 2: She puts his letters under a metaphorical microscope, criticizing the

717
00:48:49,562 --> 00:48:54,362
Speaker 2: very non pious way he lingers on the Queen's beauteous

718
00:48:54,482 --> 00:49:02,402
Speaker 2: mouth the quote rays of hope shining in his heart.

719
00:49:04,122 --> 00:49:08,442
Speaker 2: Jean spares no detail in her version of the events. Rather,

720
00:49:08,602 --> 00:49:13,562
Speaker 2: she gives excuses for every open ended question, every incongruent

721
00:49:13,642 --> 00:49:17,642
Speaker 2: detail people could ask of her story. The fact that

722
00:49:17,682 --> 00:49:21,442
Speaker 2: the Queen denied ever knowing Jean, and that no nobles

723
00:49:21,522 --> 00:49:24,802
Speaker 2: knew of her and Jean's intimate friendship. Chalked up to

724
00:49:24,842 --> 00:49:28,082
Speaker 2: the fact that the Queen simply asked her to keep

725
00:49:28,122 --> 00:49:32,242
Speaker 2: their deep and meaningful friendship a secret, and that speaking

726
00:49:32,322 --> 00:49:36,322
Speaker 2: out about this relationship, as she was doing now would

727
00:49:36,602 --> 00:49:41,882
Speaker 2: quote ruin her past recovery. According to Jean, the Queen

728
00:49:42,202 --> 00:49:45,722
Speaker 2: really was in the garden that night at Versailles, the

729
00:49:45,802 --> 00:49:49,962
Speaker 2: Queen really did want the diamond necklace, And when the

730
00:49:50,042 --> 00:49:54,042
Speaker 2: Queen realized how public opinion would turn on her should

731
00:49:54,042 --> 00:49:57,722
Speaker 2: she receive the diamond necklace, she and the Cardinal joined

732
00:49:57,762 --> 00:50:02,642
Speaker 2: forces to throw poor Jean under the bus. Jean, who

733
00:50:02,642 --> 00:50:06,602
Speaker 2: had only ever wanted to reclaim the Valois name.

734
00:50:07,082 --> 00:50:12,602
Speaker 3: By saving the Queen, I gave myself the blame erna

735
00:50:12,842 --> 00:50:17,682
Speaker 3: JUSTI was a powerful queen, the Cardinal as powerful a prince.

736
00:50:19,082 --> 00:50:23,842
Speaker 3: I have nothing but the name of Valois to render

737
00:50:23,922 --> 00:50:26,602
Speaker 3: me of any consequence.

738
00:50:27,642 --> 00:50:32,642
Speaker 2: But despite Jean's short lived fame, despite throwing royalty and

739
00:50:32,842 --> 00:50:36,362
Speaker 2: peasantry under the bus, when she found it convenient, she

740
00:50:36,682 --> 00:50:42,082
Speaker 2: was alone, she had made more enemies than allies in

741
00:50:42,122 --> 00:50:46,002
Speaker 2: her double crossing. She still held out hope of joining

742
00:50:46,042 --> 00:50:50,402
Speaker 2: a social class that was actively in the process of disappearing.

743
00:50:51,162 --> 00:50:53,882
Speaker 2: It's hard to say what would have become of Jean

744
00:50:54,362 --> 00:50:58,562
Speaker 2: in the tumultuous years to come. In just six years,

745
00:50:58,962 --> 00:51:02,162
Speaker 2: she had gone from a beggar to a false countess

746
00:51:02,562 --> 00:51:06,762
Speaker 2: to a branded thief. She was just thirty five years old,

747
00:51:06,962 --> 00:51:11,242
Speaker 2: and she reached the final chapter of her tale. There's

748
00:51:11,402 --> 00:51:15,282
Speaker 2: a couple of stories about Jean's final days. The most

749
00:51:15,482 --> 00:51:19,642
Speaker 2: popular one has her trying to outrun a creditor, flinging

750
00:51:19,682 --> 00:51:23,762
Speaker 2: herself out the window of her London hotel and dying

751
00:51:23,842 --> 00:51:27,882
Speaker 2: on the street below. By this point, though, we should

752
00:51:27,922 --> 00:51:32,922
Speaker 2: know better than to think the story stopped there. After all,

753
00:51:33,442 --> 00:51:37,762
Speaker 2: Jean had always told her greatest stories through pen and paper.

754
00:51:38,842 --> 00:51:42,282
Speaker 5: Jeanne is in some ways you have to admire her,

755
00:51:42,362 --> 00:51:45,922
Speaker 5: but she's not a likable person. She's not. It was

756
00:51:46,042 --> 00:51:48,602
Speaker 5: just what's in it for me? You know, what can

757
00:51:48,642 --> 00:51:51,282
Speaker 5: I get? And even when she got stuff, she wanted

758
00:51:51,322 --> 00:51:54,122
Speaker 5: more and then she got stuffed by you know, it

759
00:51:54,202 --> 00:51:57,242
Speaker 5: was all ill gotten gains too. This was not a

760
00:51:57,322 --> 00:52:01,162
Speaker 5: revolutionary and no one should be misconstruing anything that she

761
00:52:01,362 --> 00:52:08,482
Speaker 5: did as you know, revolutionary or pre revolutionary actions. This

762
00:52:08,562 --> 00:52:12,802
Speaker 5: is a crazy story that went awry with a woman

763
00:52:12,962 --> 00:52:17,042
Speaker 5: who was an abused child who grew up to be

764
00:52:17,082 --> 00:52:20,922
Speaker 5: a conwoman. That was the effect of trying to get

765
00:52:20,962 --> 00:52:23,522
Speaker 5: what she wanted that she claimed was her legacy.

766
00:52:28,642 --> 00:52:34,282
Speaker 2: Jeanne's scheming, however, misguided, might not have rewritten history, but

767
00:52:34,322 --> 00:52:39,242
Speaker 2: she certainly nudged it in one particular direction, in this case,

768
00:52:39,522 --> 00:52:43,562
Speaker 2: towards one of the most famous revolutions of the eighteenth

769
00:52:43,682 --> 00:52:49,482
Speaker 2: century and the eventual demise of Queen Marie Antoinette.

770
00:52:49,962 --> 00:52:52,202
Speaker 5: It was the beginning of the end for her. I

771
00:52:52,242 --> 00:52:58,762
Speaker 5: think because Jeanne's lies about Marie Antoinette persisted, most people

772
00:52:58,882 --> 00:53:02,322
Speaker 5: believed that she had a hand in it, that she

773
00:53:03,042 --> 00:53:07,282
Speaker 5: and the cardinal had conspired, or that she herself had

774
00:53:07,282 --> 00:53:11,922
Speaker 5: somehow secretly directed it. She became nicknamed Madame Deficit.

775
00:53:14,402 --> 00:53:18,482
Speaker 2: In the process of pursuing her own ambition, jean helped

776
00:53:18,642 --> 00:53:21,962
Speaker 2: turn the tide against the very thing she had hoped

777
00:53:22,082 --> 00:53:26,642
Speaker 2: to become, and left a treasure trove of conspiracy in

778
00:53:26,762 --> 00:53:30,562
Speaker 2: her wake, so that today she still got us talking

779
00:53:30,642 --> 00:53:34,882
Speaker 2: about that ugly necklace, the piece of jewelry that caused

780
00:53:34,922 --> 00:53:39,122
Speaker 2: a monarchy to fall, heads to roll, and that keeps

781
00:53:39,242 --> 00:53:41,962
Speaker 2: us coming back centuries later.

782
00:53:49,722 --> 00:53:52,682
Speaker 4: Okay, there's a term in movies, or at least on

783
00:53:52,962 --> 00:53:56,482
Speaker 4: this one Wikipedia page that I read earlier this week,

784
00:53:56,722 --> 00:53:59,762
Speaker 4: called twin films. It's where two movies about a similar

785
00:53:59,802 --> 00:54:03,242
Speaker 4: topic come out around the same time. A bugs life

786
00:54:03,322 --> 00:54:07,962
Speaker 4: and ants are are sited. Armageddon and Deep Impact Turner

787
00:54:08,082 --> 00:54:11,562
Speaker 4: Hootch and K nine the Fire Festival documentary.

788
00:54:11,682 --> 00:54:11,842
Speaker 5: Here.

789
00:54:12,002 --> 00:54:14,562
Speaker 4: Sure we have a bit of a twin films phenomenon

790
00:54:14,882 --> 00:54:19,122
Speaker 4: happening here with the Diamond Necklace story. Zarin, you host

791
00:54:19,202 --> 00:54:24,002
Speaker 4: Ridiculous Crime with Elizabeth, Great great podcast, and as this

792
00:54:24,082 --> 00:54:28,442
Speaker 4: episode was coming together, Ridiculous Crime covered the Diamond Necklace

793
00:54:28,482 --> 00:54:30,722
Speaker 4: and it's great. People should go listen to that one too.

794
00:54:30,722 --> 00:54:33,202
Speaker 4: If you're now obsessed with this, go listen to the

795
00:54:33,402 --> 00:54:36,722
Speaker 4: Early Noble Blood. Listen to the Ridiculous Crime. Just do

796
00:54:36,842 --> 00:54:38,202
Speaker 4: a full deep dive.

797
00:54:38,082 --> 00:54:40,562
Speaker 1: See if from every possible angle take the cubest version

798
00:54:40,602 --> 00:54:41,162
Speaker 1: of this story.

799
00:54:41,322 --> 00:54:43,402
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's a story that needs to be

800
00:54:43,442 --> 00:54:46,322
Speaker 2: retold as many times as possible until we finally figure

801
00:54:46,362 --> 00:54:49,482
Speaker 2: out the truth, because unfortunately it's we're going to be

802
00:54:49,482 --> 00:54:51,882
Speaker 2: biased no matter what. All of our sources are just

803
00:54:52,402 --> 00:54:54,482
Speaker 2: kind of protecting their own best interests.

804
00:54:54,482 --> 00:54:55,842
Speaker 1: There's a lot of reading through the lines.

805
00:54:56,202 --> 00:54:58,842
Speaker 2: So Darren, who are we casting on this? I feel

806
00:54:58,842 --> 00:55:00,082
Speaker 2: like there's a lot of potential.

807
00:55:00,522 --> 00:55:03,762
Speaker 1: Yes, completely. I was kind of okay once again. I

808
00:55:03,802 --> 00:55:04,962
Speaker 1: was thinking a little bit about how do I have

809
00:55:05,042 --> 00:55:08,082
Speaker 1: fun with this? So for Jean douvois, I with Anne Hathaway.

810
00:55:08,162 --> 00:55:09,882
Speaker 2: She's great, she's great, right.

811
00:55:09,722 --> 00:55:11,962
Speaker 1: Playing against type a little bit. She has to believe, like,

812
00:55:12,042 --> 00:55:13,962
Speaker 1: you know, the dark version of what we think of

813
00:55:14,002 --> 00:55:17,282
Speaker 1: her as the Cardinal Prince. I'm thinking Vincent Cassel, the

814
00:55:17,322 --> 00:55:22,162
Speaker 1: French actor, Yeah, put sex seeing this, Yeah, so you

815
00:55:22,242 --> 00:55:23,762
Speaker 1: kind of like you believe it. You want him to

816
00:55:23,842 --> 00:55:24,962
Speaker 1: kind of get it, but then you're like, oh no,

817
00:55:25,042 --> 00:55:25,362
Speaker 1: you can't.

818
00:55:25,442 --> 00:55:26,202
Speaker 2: He's a bad boy.

819
00:55:26,482 --> 00:55:30,642
Speaker 1: Totally exactly. For Queen Marie Antoinette, I went with Marioncletillard.

820
00:55:30,722 --> 00:55:32,362
Speaker 1: I thought it once again French actress.

821
00:55:32,562 --> 00:55:35,602
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. The French were very mad that Joaquin Phoenix

822
00:55:35,602 --> 00:55:38,282
Speaker 2: played Napoleon, so we better give them a French person

823
00:55:38,362 --> 00:55:40,282
Speaker 2: for this iconic French figure.

824
00:55:40,642 --> 00:55:42,642
Speaker 1: Exactly. I think they deserve it. I mean, they give

825
00:55:42,682 --> 00:55:44,202
Speaker 1: us the whole idea of Lingua franca. We gott at

826
00:55:44,282 --> 00:55:47,882
Speaker 1: least respect him in cinema. So for King Louis the sixteenth.

827
00:55:47,962 --> 00:55:49,922
Speaker 1: I was thinking Jude Law an American, but he does

828
00:55:49,962 --> 00:55:52,162
Speaker 1: have period movie face. I mean, you look at that guy,

829
00:55:52,202 --> 00:55:53,802
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, okay, I can believe in almost any

830
00:55:53,842 --> 00:55:54,802
Speaker 1: other time than now.

831
00:55:54,722 --> 00:55:55,442
Speaker 2: He's amazing.

832
00:55:55,682 --> 00:55:59,282
Speaker 1: I love this idea, ever, cali Ostro, I was thinking

833
00:55:59,282 --> 00:56:02,122
Speaker 1: of Jeremy Irons. Just let him have fun, let him

834
00:56:02,162 --> 00:56:03,842
Speaker 1: play it campy, you know, let him do it up

835
00:56:03,842 --> 00:56:05,722
Speaker 1: like he's got the crazy outfits he comes in and

836
00:56:05,762 --> 00:56:08,562
Speaker 1: for his wife Sarah Fina, LEAs they do playing get

837
00:56:08,562 --> 00:56:09,282
Speaker 1: a little bit older.

838
00:56:09,842 --> 00:56:12,642
Speaker 2: Oh all right. Look, if Adam Driver can be like

839
00:56:12,722 --> 00:56:14,962
Speaker 2: the dad in Ferrari, I feel like we can age

840
00:56:15,002 --> 00:56:15,642
Speaker 2: up LEAs they do.

841
00:56:15,962 --> 00:56:19,762
Speaker 1: Right, Thank you. So, who's your very special episode character?

842
00:56:20,002 --> 00:56:22,162
Speaker 2: You know what, honestly, I have to say, my very

843
00:56:22,162 --> 00:56:25,682
Speaker 2: special characters are the poor jewelers who made this diamond

844
00:56:25,722 --> 00:56:28,202
Speaker 2: necklace for the mistress of the king and then couldn't

845
00:56:28,242 --> 00:56:30,522
Speaker 2: find anyone to buy it. So I just feel so

846
00:56:30,562 --> 00:56:34,442
Speaker 2: sorry for them, these poor guys who just are stuck

847
00:56:34,482 --> 00:56:37,082
Speaker 2: with this kind of hideous diamond necklace.

848
00:56:37,242 --> 00:56:40,482
Speaker 4: You did a very good job explaining the necklace various

849
00:56:40,482 --> 00:56:42,642
Speaker 4: times in the episode as hideous, and.

850
00:56:42,802 --> 00:56:45,722
Speaker 2: You're so gaudy. I just like, I can't imagine anyone

851
00:56:45,802 --> 00:56:50,122
Speaker 2: actually wearing it. If Marie Antoinette was like, it's too much,

852
00:56:50,242 --> 00:56:51,082
Speaker 2: it's too much.

853
00:56:52,442 --> 00:56:54,882
Speaker 1: If the thing is called the slaves Caller, I mean,

854
00:56:54,962 --> 00:56:56,602
Speaker 1: right there, you got to know you're making a mistake

855
00:56:56,602 --> 00:56:58,762
Speaker 1: even if you make it, if you're giving it, if

856
00:56:58,762 --> 00:57:00,962
Speaker 1: you're wearing it, if you're wearing the slaves collar, you're like, oh,

857
00:57:00,962 --> 00:57:01,282
Speaker 1: come on.

858
00:57:01,242 --> 00:57:03,962
Speaker 2: Now, I mean something is wrong. I made a wrong turn.

859
00:57:04,202 --> 00:57:06,602
Speaker 1: Yeah, right exactly. And also, by the way, I have

860
00:57:06,602 --> 00:57:09,522
Speaker 1: the same very special characters. I felt so bad for them.

861
00:57:09,562 --> 00:57:11,682
Speaker 1: I was like, I mean, normally you won't get me

862
00:57:11,682 --> 00:57:13,442
Speaker 1: on the side of the jewelers, but boom did it.

863
00:57:13,522 --> 00:57:15,202
Speaker 1: I was like, I feel so bad for these guys.

864
00:57:15,202 --> 00:57:17,722
Speaker 1: They get content. They're just trying to make a beautiful thing.

865
00:57:18,202 --> 00:57:20,522
Speaker 2: They're just trying their best. Jason, what about you?

866
00:57:20,842 --> 00:57:22,882
Speaker 4: Is it wrong to pick Murrie Antoinette.

867
00:57:24,242 --> 00:57:27,562
Speaker 2: She doesn't do anything wrong in this episode. I'm actually

868
00:57:27,602 --> 00:57:31,162
Speaker 2: a big Marie Antoinette defender, not like because I believe

869
00:57:31,162 --> 00:57:33,242
Speaker 2: in a monarchy, which I don't, but just I think

870
00:57:33,282 --> 00:57:36,202
Speaker 2: she's gotten so much bad press that's undeserved for like

871
00:57:36,722 --> 00:57:39,882
Speaker 2: what she actually did and represented. If you want to

872
00:57:39,922 --> 00:57:43,042
Speaker 2: hear me talk about that in excessive detail. You just

873
00:57:43,162 --> 00:57:45,642
Speaker 2: listen to Noble Blood. But Jason, I think that's the

874
00:57:45,722 --> 00:57:46,202
Speaker 2: right pick.

875
00:57:46,402 --> 00:57:48,802
Speaker 4: Well, I'm glad I sent me to the guillotine for that.

876
00:57:49,042 --> 00:57:52,122
Speaker 4: I felt pretty bad for her at various points in this.

877
00:57:52,442 --> 00:57:55,122
Speaker 1: Oh my god, what about the plan to run away

878
00:57:55,122 --> 00:57:57,122
Speaker 1: to London and hawk the diamonds? Like why not just

879
00:57:57,202 --> 00:57:59,282
Speaker 1: go all the way to like French Canada? I mean, like,

880
00:57:59,402 --> 00:58:01,642
Speaker 1: just go on, you know, like go run to the colonies,

881
00:58:01,682 --> 00:58:04,122
Speaker 1: really get away, live it up. Those diamonds will go

882
00:58:04,202 --> 00:58:05,082
Speaker 1: far on the continent.

883
00:58:05,482 --> 00:58:08,362
Speaker 2: You have London so convenient, and the food there truly

884
00:58:08,402 --> 00:58:10,602
Speaker 2: coming into its own, the food scene in London.

885
00:58:10,642 --> 00:58:12,282
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're gonna have much more of a market

886
00:58:12,322 --> 00:58:14,722
Speaker 1: for diamonds than you know, in French Canada. But still,

887
00:58:14,802 --> 00:58:16,442
Speaker 1: I'm still, I'm just I'm going to try to get

888
00:58:16,442 --> 00:58:17,322
Speaker 1: the heck out of there.

889
00:58:17,522 --> 00:58:19,842
Speaker 4: I want to say that last week we registered a

890
00:58:19,922 --> 00:58:23,282
Speaker 4: Gmail address for the show Big Step Very Special episodes

891
00:58:23,322 --> 00:58:27,042
Speaker 4: at gmail dot com. We mentioned that, and I wasn't

892
00:58:27,082 --> 00:58:29,682
Speaker 4: sure anyone would reach out, but people did and wrote

893
00:58:29,882 --> 00:58:34,042
Speaker 4: very nice messages, and some people cast past episodes with

894
00:58:34,162 --> 00:58:36,722
Speaker 4: their choices. Oh I love it. Plenty of people who

895
00:58:36,762 --> 00:58:39,682
Speaker 4: are big fans of both of your other podcasts and

896
00:58:39,802 --> 00:58:42,002
Speaker 4: just wanted to pop in to say they've added this

897
00:58:42,042 --> 00:58:45,882
Speaker 4: one to the routine. Someone went through every episode and

898
00:58:46,402 --> 00:58:49,642
Speaker 4: rated it and ranked it. It was very thoughtful stuff,

899
00:58:49,722 --> 00:58:53,642
Speaker 4: and that's also it was heartening. So anyone wants to

900
00:58:53,642 --> 00:58:57,122
Speaker 4: write for any reason, we will read all the emails.

901
00:58:57,162 --> 00:59:00,202
Speaker 4: There's I checked before popping on here. There's a few

902
00:59:00,682 --> 00:59:02,562
Speaker 4: need to get back to. But we're gonna be inbox

903
00:59:02,642 --> 00:59:06,042
Speaker 4: zero with the show account. That's a promise, so keep

904
00:59:06,042 --> 00:59:06,482
Speaker 4: them coming.

905
00:59:06,722 --> 00:59:10,722
Speaker 2: I really admire your skill and optimism with email because

906
00:59:10,762 --> 00:59:12,522
Speaker 2: I am bad at it.

907
00:59:12,802 --> 00:59:14,962
Speaker 1: Yeah. Same, I'm with you again on that forty thousand

908
00:59:14,962 --> 00:59:16,442
Speaker 1: emails easy unread.

909
00:59:16,602 --> 00:59:19,242
Speaker 4: I'll give you an update each episode. Thank you inbox

910
00:59:19,282 --> 00:59:24,162
Speaker 4: forty thousand. Hopefully we don't get to that. Very special

911
00:59:24,202 --> 00:59:27,282
Speaker 4: episodes is made by some very special people. This show

912
00:59:27,362 --> 00:59:33,042
Speaker 4: is hosted by Danish Schwartz, Zaren Burnett and me Jason. English. Research,

913
00:59:33,202 --> 00:59:36,642
Speaker 4: writing and interviews for today's episode were provided by Wonder

914
00:59:36,682 --> 00:59:41,562
Speaker 4: Media Network. Our producer is Josh Fisher. Editing and sound

915
00:59:41,562 --> 00:59:46,162
Speaker 4: design by Emily maronof mixing and mastering by Beheid Fraser.

916
00:59:47,002 --> 00:59:51,722
Speaker 4: Original music by Alis McCoy. Our story editor is Marissa Brown.

917
00:59:52,642 --> 00:59:56,442
Speaker 4: Show logo by Lucy Kintonia special thanks to our voice

918
00:59:56,482 --> 01:00:01,442
Speaker 4: actors Coco Margo Rodale and Tom Antonellis. I am your

919
01:00:01,482 --> 01:00:06,042
Speaker 4: executive producer. We'll see you back here next Wednesday. You'd

920
01:00:06,082 --> 01:00:08,362
Speaker 4: like to email the show, you can reach out anytime.

921
01:00:08,882 --> 01:00:13,562
Speaker 4: Very Special Episodes at gmail dot com. Very Special Episodes

922
01:00:13,642 --> 01:00:15,482
Speaker 4: is a production of iHeart Podcasts.