1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: The Minowat Caves is intended for mature audiences. It contains 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: strong language and depictions of bullying, violence, and sexual assault 3 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: that some may find disturbing. Listener discretion is advised. Also, 4 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: this is an extremely immersive experience, and headphones are recommended. 5 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: You're listening to The Manawat Caves, a production of iHeartRadio, 6 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: Blumhouse Television, and Psycopia Pictures. Her skin glowed. All the 7 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 1: other kids had that no look, no shine to him, 8 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: but she glowed. I don't want to build her. You 9 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: wanted that glow for your own. It weren't for me. 10 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: Like I said, I had to, you had tom. Are 11 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: you saying that someone made you do it? Are you 12 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: saying that there was somebody that was horsing now? I 13 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: ain't nobody made me m I think what you're saying 14 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: is that someone coerced you. You know, he showed me 15 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: the way, though. Who I'm supposed to talk about him? 16 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: Mister Rydell? Who is he? Every minute I remain in 17 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: Maniwa County, In every minute James Fincher's execution draws near 18 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: the thick of the fall gets a ghost and I 19 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: need to set things right. The only way to do 20 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: that is to find out who or what really killed 21 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: the Hadley brothers and sings time claim save Steeds. You 22 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:36,959 Speaker 1: can't get elected sheriff to man a Walk County without 23 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: the endorsement of the first Baptist Church. Delivering on a 24 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: case like this was only sure fire away Hooper could 25 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: guarantee his re election. The truth to leave Hi, I'm 26 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: give you a bit of advice tween you and me. 27 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: I wouldn't go to around stirring up troubled. If I 28 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 1: was you, He's passed if you just let things play 29 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: out the way they're supposed to. August fourth, twenty twenty one. 30 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: It's eleven. It's eleven eleven am. I'm tracing Detective Solomon 31 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 1: Smith's footsteps from his investigation of the Haley murders fourteen 32 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: years ago. One place's investigation led him Carter High School. 33 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: So this morning I'm meeting with Principal Wesley Hunt. Mister 34 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: Hunt was principal when I went to school there, and 35 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: for a long time before that, probably went to Carter 36 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: High himself. Everyone did no other choice in this part 37 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: of mana Walk anyway. Principal Hunt was one of the 38 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: last people Detective Smith talked to before he disappeared, and 39 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: I want to know why, Principal Hunt. Yep, Julian, Julian Silace. 40 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,119 Speaker 1: Oh right, mister Silace, agive me. It's been a long 41 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: time now still in okay time? Yep, fine, you don't 42 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: mind walking with me? Sure? So you are wanted to 43 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 1: know about Richard Riddell. Oh well, not exactly. Oh on 44 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 1: the phone you mentioned a Detective Solomon Smith. That's right, 45 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 1: so I figured it's about Ride Doll. He was a 46 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: joiner the head when Jennifer was a senior. Yes, I know, 47 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: in the way he didn't exactly stick out, you know, 48 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: kind of kind of just blended in with a wallpaper, 49 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 1: kept his head down, wapped the floors, kept the place spotless, 50 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: and left when he was done. Just an unremarkable type 51 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 1: of guy until he wasn't. I guess. Yeah, it's unthinkable 52 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: what he did to that girl. She's one of the 53 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: brightest we'd ever had, got herself into that women's college 54 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: all by herself. I'm actually hear about the last time 55 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: you talked to Detective Smith when he was here investigating 56 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,600 Speaker 1: the murders of Deacon and Thomas Hathley. Okay, I was 57 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,239 Speaker 1: just curious if you remember what the detective was looking 58 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: for when he stopped by that last time. Montainers records 59 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: from May eighteen, two thousand and seven. Attendance records yep, okay, 60 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: do you still have those? Nope? Gave him to the detective. 61 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: You never returned him neither. Do you know what he 62 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: wanted with us? Well? I imagine he wanted to know 63 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:37,119 Speaker 1: who else was absent from school that afternoon, Shives, Deacon 64 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: and Thomas, and of course James fink you. Maybe he 65 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: was aiming to figure out who else might have gone 66 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 1: out to the caves that day. Someone always knows something. 67 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: That was a graduation week. There were lots of ceremonies 68 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 1: and such as. I'm sure you'll recall, antenance is always 69 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: highest on that week. I'll have to see if Joe 70 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: Campbell can help me find those school records. The principal, 71 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 1: Hunt said he gave the detective Smith if there were 72 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: other kids absent from school on May eighteenth, two thousand 73 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,720 Speaker 1: and seven, then maybe they were there at the caves 74 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: when the Hadley brothers were murdered. Maybe they saw something, 75 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: or hell, maybe they killed him. But as far as 76 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: I knew, the only one who spent more time at 77 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: the caves than anyone was. In fact, James Fincher, he 78 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 1: was like a brother. We both came from pain. Though 79 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: our stories were different, we were the same. We weren't 80 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: just lonely. We were alone, in charge of ourselves, our lives, 81 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: even though far too young. I remember the first time 82 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: we brought him down to see the caves. When we 83 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: crusted over the small ridge and laid eyes on the hole. 84 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 1: I fell silent. I watched Finch see them for the 85 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 1: first time, wonder mixed with fear, mixed with excitement. I'll 86 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: never forget that. It's burned into my brain. He was 87 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: taken by them, like me. What I remember finished his 88 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: body against the mouth of the cavern, small and unguarded. 89 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: He'd walked ahead of me, and I remember catching up 90 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: to him, placing my hand on his shoulder. We walked 91 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: in far, heard the sounds of the bats above, and 92 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: deep inside, heard the strange echoes of air, the wind 93 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: catching stone off kilter. It was as humid inside as 94 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: it was outside, but so cool. You felt almost naked 95 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: as your teenage sweat evaporated off your back and chest 96 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: in that air, and here in your own breath I'm 97 00:07:55,800 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: a breath of your friend. We stood there in the dark, 98 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: looking deeper in, wondering if we should go further down, 99 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: holding hands on shore and clammy, but holding hands. This 100 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 1: bell completely fucking broken by the eruption of the belch, 101 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: reverberating off the cave walls and echoing into the sky. 102 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: Tyler was waiting for us. Inside. He'd managed to spirit 103 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: a few tall boys away from an uncle, and so 104 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: the three of us sat there on the rocks and 105 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: drank them warm and told dumb jokes and talked about 106 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: some imagined future. But I remember the spell before it 107 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: was broken. Finch was mesmerized by the case Hypnotust. It 108 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: was like we'd shown him the only cool thing in 109 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: the hell hole of a town he was stuck in. 110 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,959 Speaker 1: He loved the case. All he wanted to do was 111 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: go there, and after he was expelled he would go 112 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: there alone. We were worried Griff Washington might catch him trespassing. 113 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: No telling what that racist would do, maybe loose one 114 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: of the pit bulls on him, but Finch one anyway. 115 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: He'd found it out a world apart in escape, and 116 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: he'd become completely fascinated. He even spent the night there 117 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,559 Speaker 1: a few times by himself and started mapping the caves 118 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: out in great detail. He also started going to the 119 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: library to find out their history. That's when he read 120 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: doctor Trattner's book God's in the Mountain and Monsters in 121 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: the Valley or some shit like that. There was a 122 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: history of appellation in folklore. Finch wrote to Professor Trattner too, 123 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 1: wanting to know everything you could. These same letters were 124 00:09:45,640 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: later used to convict him of murder August fourth, twenty two, 125 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 1: twenty three PM. By the time Tyler and I found 126 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: the remains of Deacon and Thomas, any rite of passage 127 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: involving Griff Washington's property had long since been squashed. Back 128 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: in the nineties, it used to be the Griff was 129 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: the older guy who'd sell your cigarettes or a six 130 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: pack of crappy beer for twenty dollars mark up. He 131 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: didn't give a shit about kids hanging out in his 132 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: land because he saw it as a financial opportunity of anything. 133 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: So when kids wanted to get away from their parents, 134 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: you know, be a rebel for the night, they'd sneak 135 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: off to Griffs. Eventually, this led to a tradition amongst 136 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: Manowa County high schoolers. Everybody knew the caves weren't safe. 137 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: There were all kinds of stories about monsters and kids 138 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,199 Speaker 1: going missing and what have you. But when you're a teenager, 139 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: that's part of the appeal. So the legend grew as 140 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: leg and stew and they still lingered today. Here's the deal. 141 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 1: Knowledge comes in different flavors. Right in the case of 142 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: the Man of Wad case. On the one hand, there's evidence, testimony, 143 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 1: police reports, all autopsies of corners, report, expert analysis and 144 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: so on. On the other hand, they're superstition and folklore. 145 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 1: It's the horrible thing. What happened those boys? Did you 146 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: ever meete James Fincher in person? Doctor tredne Man only 147 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: respond to letters of his son. Do you think he did? 148 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 1: A detective? I'd be very interested to hear. What do 149 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: you think picked up your relationship with James? I'd say 150 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: it's hardly relationship. You corresponded, we weren't pipiles. If best, 151 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: you're trying to imply there's displayed a certain engagement, shall 152 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: we say, students come in don't care? Doctor Dale Trattner. 153 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: I looked him up on their website. It says he 154 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: was a cultural anthropologist and his story and at the 155 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: University of Tennessee Nastas and give him some sense when courage. Okay, 156 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 1: what was he curious about? He's cured for those damn caves. 157 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: There is a particularly disturbing trend to those narratives that 158 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,199 Speaker 1: attacks themselves in the man a Lot caves. Then she'd 159 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: been writing letters to doctor Trattner before he was arrested, 160 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: so Smith was doing his due diligence. Stories about the 161 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: caves go way back beyond early settler folklore. What do 162 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: you mean, like like ghosts in which is some kind 163 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: of he'll billy voodoo or something. I guess something like that. 164 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,679 Speaker 1: You know, there's some history about it too. What was that? 165 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: The Nadine O'Leary story. In the eighteen nineties, the O'Leary 166 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:58,199 Speaker 1: family took shelter during a winter blizzard, who became tratt 167 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: inside the caves got note in that spring. As the 168 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: world followed, only the youngest daughter, Nadine Ole, merged in 169 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: the cave. That's the event Fincher was most interested in discussing. Okay, 170 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 1: why is that? It's one of these great unsolved mysteries 171 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: of this area. Last little Nadine she made out of 172 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: those caves back to town. She said she didn't do 173 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: it alone. But when they searched the caves that spring, 174 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: all the family members were accounted for, the remains were 175 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: still there. There's no way a little Nadine O'Leary could 176 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:36,319 Speaker 1: have survived that track out of those damn mountains by herself. 177 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: She's only four years old. Detective, you still have those letters, 178 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: Fincher wrote you. I'm sure I have him somewhere. I'll 179 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: find them for you. These were the letters that the 180 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 1: prosecution used against Finch. They said that the letters prove 181 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: he was rational and aware of his actions. They claimed 182 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,839 Speaker 1: this revealed the strategy on Fincher's part, a criminal mind. 183 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: They wove a narrative for the jury the Finch killed 184 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: the Hadley brothers out of revenge after he was bullied 185 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: by them. To add spice to their argument, they referenced 186 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: his library books and his second hand collection of VHS 187 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: tapes and CDs. They claimed his revenge plot was based 188 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: in adolescent fantasies delusions about the supernatural spirits and demons, 189 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: and that based on the violent nature of his killings, 190 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: he had been inspired by extreme horror movies and violent 191 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: music and deathcore metal. Their big legal fucking argument was 192 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: that Fincher's motive was revenge, and that his plot to 193 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: kill the Hadley brothers was fueled by delusions, beliefs about possession, 194 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: the paranormal, and evil from within the case. I want 195 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: you to take a look at the applicant share. On 196 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: one hand, we have a crime scene, the cave system 197 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: on mister Washington's property and the injuries sustained by the 198 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: Hadley boys. Then that crime scene, and then on the 199 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: other hand we have James Fincher. We have his letters 200 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: revealing an insatiable curiosity about the and I quote curse 201 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: of the Caves, including the mutilation of human flesh as 202 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: part of a ritual sacrifice required by the demonic forces 203 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: within those caves, the letting of human blood, and so on. Now, 204 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: when you take those factors and put them together, the 205 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: overwhelming evidence points to the fact that this case has 206 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: all the markings of a ritualistic, a cult murder, a 207 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: satanic murder, if you will. Then there's evidence of premeditation, 208 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: evidence that this was a meticulously constructed crime. The crime 209 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: scene itself, matching the drawings and diagrams found in the 210 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: defendant's own bedroom, diagrams of the caves with markings that 211 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: match the exact location where the bodies were found. And 212 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: it is clear that James Fincher calculated, plotted, and premeditated 213 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: the cold blooded murders of Deacon and Thomas Hadley in 214 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: those caves. What was done to Thomas and Deacon Hadley 215 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: is hard to comprehend, but it happened. It's not a dream, 216 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: it's not fiction. The defense will tell us that there 217 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: is no concrete evidence that the defendant, James Fincher, perpetrated 218 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: these heinous and brutal acts, despite witness testimony and a 219 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: clear motive. These are the facts, and the fact is 220 00:16:55,440 --> 00:17:00,359 Speaker 1: that it doesn't matter if we believe the caves are hard. 221 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if any of us believe in demons, 222 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: our ghosts, or are Satan themselves. The only thing that matters, 223 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: that's what James Fincher believes. Finchers was a witch trial. 224 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: I highly doubt such arguments as the prosecution made then 225 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: would have held weighted anywhere else in the civilized world. 226 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: But this is Manowa County. Between the mind grip that 227 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: Reverend Perkins had on the folks of this little Salem 228 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:35,919 Speaker 1: and the deep seated superstitions about the caves. It's actually 229 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 1: kind of a genius prosecution strategy. After all, there was 230 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: plenty of lore surrounding the case. The legend I always 231 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 1: heard was that someone lived in the caves, half man, 232 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 1: half demon like. Doctor Trattner said, these kinds of stories 233 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: exist all over the world. They're basically warnings for kids 234 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: to stay out of the woods, right There are fucking 235 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 1: wolves in there, and they want your innocence in any 236 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:07,360 Speaker 1: food you're bringing to Granny. In the case of Maniwa, 237 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: the stories were meant to keep us away from those 238 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: goddamn caves. But rumors are built partially on evidence too. 239 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: They're kind of more like theories that live somewhere between 240 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: fact and fiction. Two years after Jennifer Fowler left Maniwa County, 241 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 1: a boy named Matthew Sweetzer was found dead in the 242 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: cave with a single action revolver in his hand. Apparently 243 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: he was related to Richard Rydell second Cause and once 244 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 1: removed or something. Well. When the Haley brothers were found 245 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 1: dead in the cave, everyone had the same thought, there's 246 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: a murderer amongst us. You'd think that thought would charge 247 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: every interaction with dread suspicion, but instead it sort of 248 00:18:55,080 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: bound the town together, in entire town against one one 249 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 1: eighteen year old boy. I'm heading over to meet Fincher's sister. Now, Dina, 250 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: you're recording this if it's all right with you yet 251 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 1: helps with the details, which helps with you know, Okay, 252 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 1: h listen, thanks you know, for a grant to even 253 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: this though, like, just thanks for meeting with me. I'll 254 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: get it twisted. This is for James, not for you. 255 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: I don't care about whatever little self forgiveness journey you're on. 256 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: You said you wanted to help my brother get off 257 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:44,439 Speaker 1: death row. That's the only reason, and I mean the 258 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: only reason you are here. Yeah, I get all that. 259 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: You're right obviously, and that's what I want to do too. 260 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: So Jimmy, turn that thing down. We got company. Dina's son, Jimmy, 261 00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: was born a few months after his uncle, James Fincher 262 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 1: was put on death row. Jimmy's fourteen. Now. He was 263 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 1: named after his uncle, but James Fincher was never Jimmy 264 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: to me. He wasn't even James, he was just Finch. 265 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: Finch had a speech impediment, told me once that words 266 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,360 Speaker 1: that start with the letter Jay gave him a hard 267 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 1: time any letters that required his tongue to touch the 268 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:24,360 Speaker 1: top of his mouth. So he hated saying his own name, James. 269 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 1: He would stutter, elongate the vowels, try to bury the confidence. 270 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: I always made a point to call him Finch after 271 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: he told me that, so Finch. Finch and his younger sister, 272 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,160 Speaker 1: Dina moved to Maniwa County when they were twelve and sixteen. 273 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 1: I felt sorry for Finch from the second he first 274 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 1: stepped foot on our school bus. He looked frail and 275 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: wide eyed. The wheels were spinning in his mind like 276 00:20:55,040 --> 00:21:00,080 Speaker 1: a turbine. It's tough to be a new kid, but 277 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 1: a new kid that stood out. I mean, who was 278 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: this guy? Where did he come from? And the rumors 279 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 1: spread quick He thought her both of his parents with 280 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: nothing but a pocket knife. He was really a thirty 281 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: five year old undercoverage and sent by the FBI to 282 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 1: investigate a chemical spill in the town's drinking water. He 283 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: was a genuine homosexual and sent a man a walk 284 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: for conversion therapy. Whatever was said about James Fincher when 285 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,919 Speaker 1: he first showed up, it was a disruption, and it 286 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 1: stoked the tribal instincts in Pottsville clans. And it didn't 287 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 1: take long for bullies to prey on him either. I 288 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 1: wanted to stand up for him, but I couldn't. Not 289 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: the time Deacon Hadley threw a couple of Warren pists 290 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: on his head from the second story bathroom, and not 291 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: the time Thomas Hadley locked him in his locker. I 292 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,879 Speaker 1: wanted to stop it, but I knew it would just 293 00:21:55,960 --> 00:22:01,640 Speaker 1: make matters worse for me. I'd suffered bullying self all 294 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: through Junior High, and I learned how not to call 295 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: attention to myself, so I did nothing at first. But 296 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: not calling attention to yourself isn't the skill Finch would 297 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: ever be able to master. He had only been riding 298 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: the bus for a week before Thomas Hadley sat down 299 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 1: next to him, reached into his lunch bag, pulled out 300 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: a carton a chocolate milk, and poured it over Finch's head. 301 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: I remember panicing, My heart was pounded in my chest, 302 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: my mouth got dried and I couldn't breathe. I remember 303 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: Thomas crushing the carton against Finch's chest. Finch didn't five 304 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,199 Speaker 1: back he didn't even react. Maybe he felt that if 305 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 1: he did stand up to them, it would only make 306 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,479 Speaker 1: things worse for him and his sister. Maybe he just 307 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 1: checked out, disassociated as a means of survival. That's what 308 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,200 Speaker 1: I used to do in this sixth grade was the 309 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: easy target. I wasn't into the ship that the other 310 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: kids liked. I didn't play sports, I love Doctor Who 311 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 1: an anime, and would rather read a book than play outside. 312 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: So they called me a loser or geek or faggot. 313 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: They didn't ask what you're eating, They asked what you're 314 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: eating for. Thomas and Deacon used to terrorize me once. 315 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: They cornered me in the back of the auditorium and 316 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: they beat my ass and dumped a piss on me, 317 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: and I was too terrified and too ashamed to call 318 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: for help. Instead, I remember feeling like I wasn't even there, 319 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 1: Like I had gone from my body, gone from the school, 320 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:43,640 Speaker 1: gone from Manowa County, my solo taking refuge someplace safe, 321 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 1: any place but there. But that day on the bus 322 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 1: with Fincher or something snapped after Thomas Porter's melk on 323 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: Fincher's head, Duelly Tapper joined in. Monkey see Monkey do 324 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 1: I remember seeing Dully des I had to do it 325 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 1: his dull fucking face, looking around and see if the 326 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: bus drivers even gave a shit. He started to pour 327 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,159 Speaker 1: his arms juice on finish. I don't know. Maybe it 328 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 1: was because Duty was less of a threat than Thomas Hadley, 329 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,360 Speaker 1: but suddenly all of the PTSD in the shame i'd 330 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: carried him, a guy sixth grade, I turned to rage. 331 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 1: I don't think I was even completely conscious when I 332 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: reached out and smacked the juice out of Duy's fat 333 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: hand man and watched the explode on his face. You 334 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,400 Speaker 1: getting nap back. It was my first let chit fat. 335 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,719 Speaker 1: When we lasted a minute before the bus driver stopped 336 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: the bus and broke it up. I remember the tears 337 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 1: came hot and salty, and I couldn't stop him. I'm 338 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: not supposed to cry on when you're a seventeen year old, 339 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:56,120 Speaker 1: but I couldn't hold him back anymore. Well, look who 340 00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 1: wears the pants in this love affair, that's deacon, said 341 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: Everyone laughed. After that, they called us lovers, me and Finch. 342 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 1: They spread their rumors anyway. Me and Dually got suspended 343 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: from the bus, so Dina and Finch were on their 344 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,639 Speaker 1: own after that, and it wasn't long before Dina suffered 345 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: the attention of the Hadleys. The looks in the stairing 346 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: probably wasn't new for Dina. Even at fourteen years old, 347 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,160 Speaker 1: Dina wasn't particularly well developed. She was behind what would 348 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: be considered average for her age. Physically speaking. She dressed 349 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,640 Speaker 1: primarily and her brother's hand me down clothes. She kept 350 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: her eyes down, her nose out of trouble, and I 351 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 1: tried not to be noticed. And that's because she was 352 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: always noticed. Dina Fincher was her own disruption in Manowa County, 353 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 1: but where Finch had a speech impediment for people to 354 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:58,439 Speaker 1: latch on to, Dina was just female. And to borrow 355 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: the phrase the Deacon Hadley was so fond of using, 356 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: Dina was exotic. The same word used to describe alien 357 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: fruits and endangered animals and lascivious dances applied here to 358 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:17,439 Speaker 1: a young girl. Her skin, darker, eyes deeper, gate timid, 359 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,439 Speaker 1: and Deacon became fixated on Dina Fincher. He started referring 360 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: to her as his little squaw, a blatant ethnic and 361 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: sexual slur. That's when the Fincher's quit riding the bus. Unfortunately, 362 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: in the end, the bus probably would have been safer. 363 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: It was the last day before spring break. Dina left 364 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: school that day, same as any other day. While she 365 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,919 Speaker 1: waited for her brother, she noticed Deacon and Thomas Hadley 366 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,120 Speaker 1: propped up against a tree watching her. When they caught 367 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: her eye, things escalated, lewd mouth gestures, wolf whistles, crotch grabbing. 368 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: When Finch finally arrived, Dina didn't mention it because it 369 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: wasn't out of the ordinary behavior. This kind of thing 370 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: happened so often with the boys in Maniwa County that 371 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,360 Speaker 1: Tina had just gotten used to it, so she dismissed 372 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: it like she would on any other given day, and 373 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,120 Speaker 1: began a three mile walk back to the Splinter Gap 374 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: trailer park with her brother. Dina was aware that the 375 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: Hadley brothers were following them, but she wasn't worried. She 376 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:22,160 Speaker 1: had her brother there, and besides, following wasn't new either. 377 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: Anything to get a rise out of her wasn't new. 378 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: She had been trained time and time again to believe 379 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: the men were full of empty threats, but lacked the 380 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: gumption to actually make good on them. When the Hadleys 381 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: were still following them out passed where the sidewalk endid 382 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: down the descolate stretch of mountain road leading towards Splinter Gap. 383 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:50,679 Speaker 1: Dina started getting nervous that it happened. Thomas Harley had 384 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 1: gotten a hold of a rock about the size of 385 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:54,880 Speaker 1: a great prudent and let it fly across the back 386 00:27:54,880 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: of Inch's head. It dropped them and Thomas hind him 387 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: down on the grass where he was powerless to stop 388 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: taking from going after his sister. Jimmy doesn't know the 389 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,640 Speaker 1: particulars about his birth or that his uncle's in jail 390 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: because he killed Jimmy's biological father. Way what Jimmy's biological father. 391 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 1: Jimmy's biological father was Deacon Hadley. I don't know why 392 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: it never occurred to me who was the father of 393 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: Dena's son, Jimmy. But you wasn't bashful about letting me know. 394 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: Dina was assaulted, violated, and impregnated by Dickon Hadley. I 395 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: didn't know. No one does. It's a town secret, except 396 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 1: that at ain't. It was kept out of the trial. 397 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: Why Bobby Hadley didn't want it out? The defense attorney 398 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: didn't want the jury here in that either. It only 399 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 1: made the prosecution's argument stronger because what has shown a 400 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:33,719 Speaker 1: clear motive undernobyl. They still went with revenge, but they 401 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: couldn't prove anything. James was convicted completely on circumstantial evidence. 402 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: Well I didn't have an alibi. Look, I know he's 403 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: innocent too, but it doesn't matter what we think. We 404 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: need to think out of the box anything to help 405 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: us do that. I just I want to get your 406 00:29:53,840 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: perspective if I can. Okay, Look, James lol always try 407 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: to protect me, but he ain't capable of murder. Look, 408 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: we come from a fucked up situation. Our father was abusive. 409 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 1: I don't remember much. He was just a monster for 410 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: when I was little. I was terrified of him. But 411 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: when he was gone, I started to come out of 412 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: my shell. They thought I was a mute, but when 413 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: he left I started talking. Nobody knew I could talk 414 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: until he left us. But our problems weren't over. Far 415 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: from it. Our mother had her serious mental illness like what, 416 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: I don't know. She just wasn't right, and by the 417 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: time I was five she was certifiable. Like I had 418 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: this doll, right, a Barbie knock off doll that I 419 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: found out in the playground. Somewhere, and James said I 420 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: would spend hours playing with her like she was my 421 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: only friend. Then one morning I found my mother burying 422 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: my doll in the backyard. Mama says she thought the 423 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: doll was evil. I thought she was talking to me, 424 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 1: telling me bad things, turning me against her. After that 425 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: she started getting mean, lashing out, taking over where Dad 426 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: left off. And there were some beans. The point is 427 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: James always tried to protect me. Eventually they took her 428 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: away Florida Stay Psychiatric Hospital, and me and James got 429 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 1: shipped up here to beautiful manu Wa County. We'd never 430 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: even met our grandma till the day we arrived in 431 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: Splinter Gap, and boy did she ever make it clear 432 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: that she only took us in for the government assistance money. 433 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: She didn't even have a room for us her old Really, 434 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 1: I had one bedroom and she never came out of it. 435 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 1: So James he slept on the floor so I couldn't 436 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 1: sleep cozy on the couch. And when Grandma died and 437 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: he became a legal guardian, he gave me her bedroom. 438 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: There was no single day I went to school and 439 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: he wasn't right there next to me on the bus 440 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 1: or walking me to school and back home again. And 441 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 1: that includes after he got expelled, even when he wasn't 442 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: allowed on campus no more. He told me not to 443 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: ride the bus, He'd walk me, and he'd just wait 444 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: outside of school property all day long until the last 445 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 1: bell rang and he could walk me home again. I'd 446 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 1: see him there through the class and windows, just sitting 447 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: and waiting, keeping an eye out. Never met a sweeter 448 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 1: human being than James. No, I know, and I remember, 449 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: But isn't that the same motive that the prosecution used 450 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 1: to convict him. His need to protect you. Grandma used 451 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: to keep chickens back and me and James. Our job 452 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: was to make sure they had worms and feed and water. 453 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 1: Sometimes Grandma would let the rooster and the coop to breathe, 454 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: and when the little chicks would hatch, it was James's 455 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 1: job to keep them alive to protect them from the predators. 456 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: Rats mostly rats would eat the baby chicks. So Mamma 457 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: gave James the twenty two rifle and made him sit 458 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: out there in the cold and the dark, and his 459 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: job was to shoot the rats. Well. One day he 460 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: shot one blew its back half off, but it didn't die. 461 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: It was still breathing, suffering. James had to shoot it 462 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: again at point blank. He couldn't kill nothing anymore after that, 463 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: not even spiders or snakes or nothing. There's no way 464 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: he could have killed those boys, even if he had 465 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 1: more than enough reason to do so. It's not in 466 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 1: his nature. What about that fight he publicly attacked the 467 00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 1: healthy brothers, jam right, he did fight, and they murderate 468 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 1: the same And that one fot I use against them. 469 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: They keep the people that are on top on top, 470 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 1: and they keep the people on the bottom on the bottom. 471 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:12,399 Speaker 1: That one fot. That was all it took to get 472 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 1: James where he is now. But he still just doesn't 473 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 1: have the poison inside him it would take to do 474 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,400 Speaker 1: a thing like that the way they found their bodies. 475 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 1: Dena Fincher was sexually assaulted by Deacon Hadley, and she 476 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 1: became an adult in a single instant. The gap between 477 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,239 Speaker 1: her innocent years and the rest of her life was 478 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 1: about three minutes, three minutes outside of her own body. 479 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,879 Speaker 1: Maybe her soul drifted far away from her body that day. 480 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 1: Maybe in her mind she flew away, maybe back to 481 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 1: Florida to bury her innocence in the dirt. Next to 482 00:34:55,440 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 1: that knockoff Barbie Dall. When it was over, Tomy and 483 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: Deacon just got up. They slung their backpacks over their 484 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,239 Speaker 1: shoulders like they would walk at home from their bus 485 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,800 Speaker 1: stop on any other day of the week. They didn't 486 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:16,440 Speaker 1: say anything, no threats, no warnings. They just got up 487 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,760 Speaker 1: and left Dna and Finch line in the high grass. 488 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: The Finchers had no health insurance. Their grandmother had passed 489 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,279 Speaker 1: away only months after Finch turned eighteen, thrusting him into 490 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 1: the responsibilities of adulthood long before most kids his age 491 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,840 Speaker 1: have even figured out how to microwave a cup of noodles. 492 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 1: Somewhere between becoming DNA's legal guardian and trying to graduate 493 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 1: high school, it had never occurred to Finch that they 494 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:54,439 Speaker 1: might need healthcare. They didn't have any money saved. Every 495 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: job Finch had applied for he had been denied because 496 00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: of some bullshit claims of his disability, yes that's what 497 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:05,840 Speaker 1: they called his speech impediment, being a liability, or whatever 498 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,879 Speaker 1: other excuse was being doled out at the particular establishment. 499 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,720 Speaker 1: So Finch and Dina never forgot medical help that day, 500 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,759 Speaker 1: even though Finch suffered from a nasty head wound and 501 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 1: bled from the back of his skull, and Dina was 502 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 1: now a physically and emotionally traumatized survivor of Diacon Headley. 503 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 1: The Fincher siblings walked back to their trailer. Finch did 504 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,799 Speaker 1: everything he could help his sister, while presumably suffering through 505 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 1: a concussion. The next day, they went back to school. 506 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: According to Dina Fincher, it was her brother's idea to 507 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: go back. He knew their best better survival was to 508 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:46,279 Speaker 1: finish their educations, get their diplomas, and get the hell 509 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 1: out of Dodge. So they put their heads down, studied hard, 510 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,360 Speaker 1: and worked towards that goal. But the forces that be 511 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: weren't content on letting the Finchers get on with their lives, 512 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 1: and a few weeks later, Dina found out that she 513 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:07,799 Speaker 1: was pregnant. There were so many factors, but I think 514 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,240 Speaker 1: that's what really did it. The mountain weight of everything 515 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 1: gets so heavy you can't carry it anymore, and you're 516 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: crushed under the pressure of all that muck and bullshit. 517 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 1: When Finch found out that Dina was pregnant, that in 518 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 1: spite of all that fighting to survive and remain in 519 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: calm and steadfast, despite that torment, trying to win through 520 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:36,479 Speaker 1: sheer endurance that there was still gonna be another life 521 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,280 Speaker 1: dragged against its will into the cesspool of a world. 522 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 1: He fucking cracked. He waited all through the school day. 523 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,880 Speaker 1: I remember seeing him all hopped up on adrenaline, his 524 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,680 Speaker 1: face going purple in the blotchy patches around his cheeks 525 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,919 Speaker 1: and collar, his leg bouncing so hard that it made 526 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,880 Speaker 1: his desk to shake and caused the eruption in class. 527 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:06,040 Speaker 1: The second that bell rang, he went for it. He 528 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,880 Speaker 1: humped the Deacon Hadley down like a well trained predator. 529 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,680 Speaker 1: He had stashed a broken axe handle in the bushes 530 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 1: near where the Hadley brothers used to roost in the 531 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 1: schoolyard at recess. Finch just walked quietly walked over to 532 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 1: them as they watched him a snicker and despite his 533 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:30,280 Speaker 1: fearless approach, before they could put together what was happening, 534 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 1: Finch retrieved his axe handle and started swinging. He gave 535 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,880 Speaker 1: them hell on Earth right there in the schoolyard. I 536 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:43,359 Speaker 1: remember he was standing over deacons, swinging wildly. Thomas tried 537 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 1: to pull him back but ended up on the wrong 538 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:49,280 Speaker 1: side of Finch's elbow that laid him out. To bleeding 539 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:54,879 Speaker 1: on the grass, the explosive power of so much pent 540 00:38:55,040 --> 00:39:01,319 Speaker 1: up rage contents under pressure, he snapped. I swear to God, 541 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 1: Finch had the strength to ten full grown men that day. Man. 542 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 1: What's then the tears came, but not to Hadley's. Finch, 543 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 1: for all his rage, was the only one crying. And 544 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:23,879 Speaker 1: then came the laughter, Thomas Hadley, that goddamn laugh. I'll 545 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:28,279 Speaker 1: never forget it. Fincher held back by Tyler crying and 546 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:33,320 Speaker 1: Thomas bleeding on the ground, laughing like a fucking hyena. 547 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 1: James may have done some physical damage, he drew a 548 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:42,280 Speaker 1: little blood, but they'd still won. They had broken him 549 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,839 Speaker 1: and his sister, and because of that nothing would ever 550 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:51,719 Speaker 1: change around these parts, Or so I thought. Finch was 551 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 1: expelled obviously, Bobby Hadley, Thomas and Deacon's father just so 552 00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:58,400 Speaker 1: happened to be good friends with the district attorney at 553 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 1: the time they were about the press charges. But it 554 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:07,920 Speaker 1: was Dina who retaliated a DNA test proving Deacon was 555 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 1: the father of her unborn child. She rebutted with a 556 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,680 Speaker 1: proof of the Hadley boy's own guilt off any legal 557 00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,640 Speaker 1: moves were made against her brother, and so she created 558 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,920 Speaker 1: a stalemate. If her brother was going to jail, so 559 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,359 Speaker 1: were Bobby Hadley's sons. And if Bobby would back down, 560 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:26,520 Speaker 1: she'd keep the rape out of the papers and no 561 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: one would ever know about it. So he backed down, 562 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,800 Speaker 1: and the Hadley boys not even a slap on the wrist. 563 00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:40,760 Speaker 1: It was perfect injustice. It's no wonder Sheriff Hooper picked 564 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,479 Speaker 1: Finch as his lead suspect in the Hadley murders after 565 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:47,399 Speaker 1: those boys were found eviscerated in the caves four months later, 566 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,919 Speaker 1: and the whole town lit up like a medieval mob, 567 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:56,400 Speaker 1: ready to hunt the monster down with pitchforks, torches, drive 568 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,960 Speaker 1: it out from the fucking cave. Everyone wanted Fincher's head 569 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:31,360 Speaker 1: down a stick, everyone excepted Detective Solomon Smith, a ghost 570 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 1: in the meal and the hounds of Hell. Dancing in 571 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:49,160 Speaker 1: Your Dancing in the Manowat Caves stars Jonathan Tucker as 572 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 1: Julian Salis, Eddie Gathegi as James Fincher, Clark Peters as 573 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:58,600 Speaker 1: Detective Solomon Smith, Nick Sercy as Sheriff Kirby Hooper, Justin 574 00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:02,600 Speaker 1: Wellbourne as Tyler Wilson, Jill Jane Clements as Jill Campbell, 575 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:07,400 Speaker 1: Brad Carter as Dooley Tappert, Scott Poythress as Reverend Perkins, 576 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:12,600 Speaker 1: Samantha Ashley as Dena Fincher, Justin Matthews Smith as Paul Salis, 577 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:17,160 Speaker 1: Tara Oakes as Laura Salis, Jonathan Horn as Deacon Hadley, 578 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:23,279 Speaker 1: Alden Kronovitch as Thomas Hadley, Mike w Anderson as Griff Washington, 579 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:28,200 Speaker 1: Bodie Walter Roth as Jimmy Fincher, Brian McClure as Ian Speaks, 580 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:32,080 Speaker 1: Larry Clark as Bobby Hadley, Paydon Fallis as ed le Blanc, 581 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:36,440 Speaker 1: Vic Polisis as William Fowler, Nick Takosky as Richard Rydell, 582 00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:41,440 Speaker 1: and Aileen moy as The Darkness, with additional performances by 583 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:47,320 Speaker 1: Clint McGowan, Dina Dill, Edward Howard, Henry Foster Brown, Jamie Joseph, 584 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:53,840 Speaker 1: Juan Monsalvez, Christopher Curry, Bailey Hyneman, David Mitchell, and Bernard 585 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:58,480 Speaker 1: Sataro Clark. Created by Connel Byrne and Dan Bush, written 586 00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:02,799 Speaker 1: by Dan Bush, Zoe Cooper and Nicholas Dakaski, featuring our 587 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:07,560 Speaker 1: theme song Killer Inside, written produced and performed by Lear Lynn. 588 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:12,719 Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Matt Frederick, Alexander Williams, Michael Monty, 589 00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:17,200 Speaker 1: and Courtney Dufrees. Our executive producers at Blumhouse Television are 590 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:22,640 Speaker 1: Jeremy Gold, Chris Dickey, and Noah Feinberg. Produced by Dan Bush, 591 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,879 Speaker 1: Music by Ben Lovett. Additional music by Alexander Rodriguez. Edited 592 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,560 Speaker 1: by Dan Bush, Chris Childs, Stephen Perez and David Chen. 593 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:36,200 Speaker 1: Sound design by Benjamin Malcolm. Dialogue editing and sound mixing 594 00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:40,000 Speaker 1: by Jan Campus recorded at Studio Awesome in Los Angeles, 595 00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:44,120 Speaker 1: sound Bite Studio in Atlanta and Echo Mountain in Asheville. 596 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,880 Speaker 1: Casting by Sunday Bowling Kennedy and Meg Morman. Our dialect 597 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:52,840 Speaker 1: coach is Linda Bassetti. Assistant director Michael Monty, Second assistant director, 598 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:59,120 Speaker 1: script supervisor and production coordinator Sarah Klein. Supervising producer Josh Thine. 599 00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:03,000 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Mary Ellen and Jason Davis, Jonathan Deeter, 600 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:07,760 Speaker 1: and Joe Rickman. The manowat Caves is a production of iHeartRadio, 601 00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:22,920 Speaker 1: Blumhouse Television and Psychopia Pictures. So please