WEBVTT - Rebuilding the Broken

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<v Speaker 1>Find Down with Janey Kramer and Michael Coffman an I'm

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<v Speaker 1>her radio podcast. You know, we had to get Mark,

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<v Speaker 1>our producer, to make sure he was on today because

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<v Speaker 1>we got the juice today.

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<v Speaker 2>Well it's I mean, I yeah, it's like unfortunate, unfortunate,

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<v Speaker 2>but what unfortunately comes with the unfortunate unfortunately of the

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<v Speaker 2>territory with.

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<v Speaker 1>The unfortunate truth of the unfortunate past?

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<v Speaker 3>Mm hmm. Mark is like, right now.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm so intrigued right now because both have kind of

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<v Speaker 4>smiles on your face and maybe this isn't so serious, but.

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<v Speaker 3>Then it.

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<v Speaker 5>Seems I'm getting a serious vibe.

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<v Speaker 3>I was, I was.

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<v Speaker 2>Hyperventilatingly bawling, hyper a lot of Ellie's I'm adding into this. No,

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<v Speaker 2>I was, I was bawling last night. And actually Mike

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<v Speaker 2>about five minutes before we started this goes, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we've learned our lesson sharing things that are not healed,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, if we don't want to talk about it,

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<v Speaker 2>we don't have to. And I was like, no, I'm like,

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<v Speaker 2>it's it is what it is. It's just it's unfortunate.

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<v Speaker 2>So do you want mean to start go for it?

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<v Speaker 2>So on a few days ago, I got a DM

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<v Speaker 2>saying that Mike cheated, and the reason why it caught

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<v Speaker 2>me off guard was because the very first time I

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<v Speaker 2>found out Mike cheated on me was through a DM. Sure,

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<v Speaker 2>so automatically I'm in freak out mode because I think

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<v Speaker 2>and I told my therapist that I to sout with

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<v Speaker 2>her the other day, and you know, I told her,

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, I almost have this weird PTSD where

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<v Speaker 2>I I go through my dms almost looking to see

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<v Speaker 2>if I'm if the truth is going to prevail in

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<v Speaker 2>a DM again, Like I have this like fear when

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<v Speaker 2>I go through my dms, but then I also have this, well,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't want to miss it, like if this is

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<v Speaker 2>my the sign or that it shows me again that

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<v Speaker 2>he cheated. So it's just said Mike cheated again. I'm sorry.

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<v Speaker 2>And I looked at the person's profile had zero followers, zero,

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<v Speaker 2>so it's like they just made this, like they just

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<v Speaker 2>made this account, so I reached out, which could go

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<v Speaker 2>either way.

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<v Speaker 4>That could be, oh, it's just a crazy person, or

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<v Speaker 4>this could be legit. It kind of shows on both sides.

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<v Speaker 2>Of the coin exactly, And so that's where I was

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<v Speaker 2>kind of like stuck, and I called my friend Sarah,

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<v Speaker 2>who was there from me from like from D Day,

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<v Speaker 2>Like she's the one who told me to like look

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<v Speaker 2>into Mike cheating. And I center this and I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>what do I do? Because you know, we just got

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<v Speaker 2>freaking our book out in New York Times Bestsellers. And

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, is this it's like you just said, it's

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<v Speaker 2>either someone is trying to mess with me and pop

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<v Speaker 2>this bubble and get in my head, or it's true.

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<v Speaker 2>And I said, and this the really sh sucky thing

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<v Speaker 2>about it is that my default can't go to there's

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<v Speaker 2>no way, Like That's where I told Mike last night,

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<v Speaker 2>like that's where it like hurts the most, where I

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<v Speaker 2>can't just go I trust him a thousand percent he

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<v Speaker 2>would never do that. And I think that's where that's

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<v Speaker 2>where it's stung. And that's where I'm like, am I

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<v Speaker 2>really going to start having this DM conversation with this

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<v Speaker 2>girl or whoever it was?

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<v Speaker 3>And I did.

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<v Speaker 2>I can, so I started dming this person and again,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm just like, you know, they're telling me things

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<v Speaker 2>that maybe could make sense or it maybe could be wrong,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, and I don't know. You know, she's said

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<v Speaker 2>a few things about his hometown. I'm like, okay, well

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<v Speaker 2>they can just look that up on inner the Internet.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>She said something about he's got a secret device, which

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<v Speaker 2>has always been a fear of mine, that maybe he

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<v Speaker 2>has some secret device that he talks to other people on.

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<v Speaker 5>Yea.

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<v Speaker 2>So she's telling me all these things. I'm like, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>well that could be valid, or that could be coret,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. And I'm like, am I talking to just

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<v Speaker 2>some sad person and wherever that's just trying to make

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<v Speaker 2>me upset? Or is there some truth to this? And

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<v Speaker 2>so I sat with it for a few days before

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<v Speaker 2>bringing it to Mike because.

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<v Speaker 1>The thing is too though. This person is saying isn't

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<v Speaker 1>even speaking on their behalf. They're speaking on their friend's behalf.

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<v Speaker 1>They're saying that their friend is the one that I'm

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<v Speaker 1>cheating with or whatever. This person isn't even like saying

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<v Speaker 1>that they're the person.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and she's like she, you know, she's going to

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<v Speaker 2>be so upset with me. I just feel like you

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<v Speaker 2>need to know. And you know, her and Mike talk

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<v Speaker 2>all the time, and they think they're going to be together,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, they have unprotected sex, and Mike just

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<v Speaker 2>says that you are, that he's just living in this

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<v Speaker 2>world of control that you've created and he's trying to

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<v Speaker 2>get out and all these things. I'm like, well, maybe

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<v Speaker 2>that's how he truly feels. And I'm like, oh my god,

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<v Speaker 2>and I just I'm so I just start to kind

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<v Speaker 2>of unravel. But I start to just be like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>show me the proof, because here's the deal at the

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<v Speaker 2>end of the day. And I've told this to Mike.

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<v Speaker 2>You got proof, show it to me, you know, And

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<v Speaker 2>I can't be an idiot and to not say, Okay, fine,

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<v Speaker 2>let's see the proof. Prove me wrong, prove you know,

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<v Speaker 2>prove the lie wrong. And you know, she kept saying, well,

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<v Speaker 2>she won't let me or she'll get so mad. She's

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<v Speaker 2>upset with me that I'm even saying anything to you,

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<v Speaker 2>but good luck. Just know that, like you're not going

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<v Speaker 2>to find the secret device. And I'm just like, so

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<v Speaker 2>what do I do? And this is another thing I

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<v Speaker 2>told them. I was like bawling last night. I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>I searched the freakin' house.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh you know, I'm like.

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<v Speaker 2>For like not like the entire but I'm like looking,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, what am I doing? Like this is like

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<v Speaker 2>She's like, I'm going crazy, And so I went to

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<v Speaker 2>my therapy office or whatever and sat down with her

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<v Speaker 2>to talk about it before I talked to Mike about it.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm like, I don't want to be looking under

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<v Speaker 2>the bed or going in his drawers trying to find

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<v Speaker 2>the secret device that this who knows if it's even real.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm like, how do I deal with this? And

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<v Speaker 2>you know, because I'm like, we're coming off a high

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<v Speaker 2>and now this, but I can't ignore it completely, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>because of our history, and I can't really one thousand percent,

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<v Speaker 2>like there's not enough stuff in the bank to trust

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<v Speaker 2>his word one thousand percent because of this stuff with

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<v Speaker 2>last year, and that sucks. And I'm like, so I'm

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<v Speaker 2>just kind of like stuck, and you know, he's he

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<v Speaker 2>noticed it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I you know, I noticed something was up with

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<v Speaker 1>with Jana the last couple of days, and I, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I was prying the other day more and more. He

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<v Speaker 1>kept saying, nothing's wrong, nothing's wrong, and I just I know,

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<v Speaker 1>I know you just like you know me, like we

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<v Speaker 1>know each other. And so finally Jana was just kind

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<v Speaker 1>of like, well, you know, I need to I need

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<v Speaker 1>to process this with my therapist and I need to

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<v Speaker 1>find out some more information and figure all this out.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I had to, you know, and I respect

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<v Speaker 1>and appreciate and I affirmed Jana last night for doing

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<v Speaker 1>the work around this that she's done and handling the

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<v Speaker 1>way she has because she would have been so easy

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<v Speaker 1>for her as soon as she got this to come,

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<v Speaker 1>mf me and.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, in the past, I've grabbed his phone and thrown

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<v Speaker 2>it across the room and shattered.

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<v Speaker 1>It, right, So it was you know, So I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>all right, she's doing her work. I can't use that

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<v Speaker 1>against right now. I can't get frustrated because she's not

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<v Speaker 1>talking to me. So I was like, Okay, I have

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<v Speaker 1>to do my work now and not be codependent and

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<v Speaker 1>try to take on her feelings. So I was like, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>and how to just walk away and sit with it?

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, once she finally told me last night, man,

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<v Speaker 1>it like it it crushed me because it sucked, like

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<v Speaker 1>I feel the same as her, where I'm like, it

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<v Speaker 1>sucks that she can't default to trusting me. It sucks

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<v Speaker 1>that I've done what I've done in the past to

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<v Speaker 1>create that in a relationship. Right now, my hope is

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<v Speaker 1>that years down the line, you know, if something like

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<v Speaker 1>this happened again, she'd be able to bring it to

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<v Speaker 1>me and we would almost be able to like laugh

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<v Speaker 1>about it, you know, because there is that much trust

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<v Speaker 1>in the bank. But you know, I didn't fault her

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<v Speaker 1>at all for questioning me, for still trying to figure

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<v Speaker 1>these things out, you know. And then when she told

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<v Speaker 1>me she searched the house, it's just like my heart

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<v Speaker 1>just sank because you know, I just felt so bad,

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<v Speaker 1>like so bad for my wife, like to have to

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<v Speaker 1>that you have to feel these things, and that it's

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<v Speaker 1>a direct correlation to the things I've done in the past,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, And it's which it sucks, man. It's just

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<v Speaker 1>people like this, you know. I know, Jana's still kind

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<v Speaker 1>of wrapping her head around this and trying to still

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<v Speaker 1>gather information even though this person person and deleted that account.

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<v Speaker 1>And when you tried to.

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<v Speaker 2>Because Mike basically said like, let's ask for her number,

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<v Speaker 2>let's call her, and yeah, and they they deleted the

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<v Speaker 2>their account, and I you know, and I also like

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<v Speaker 2>sent like a thing saying like, well, I'll send the

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<v Speaker 2>lawyers after you this defamation and you know, or whatever

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<v Speaker 2>we could figure out because and I think the therapist

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<v Speaker 2>said too. She's like, unfortunately, this isn't going to be

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<v Speaker 2>the last time this comes up. It wasn't the first,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's not going to be the last, especially because

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<v Speaker 2>we have put our relationship out there. And here's the deal.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, when you go on those tabloid sites, they're like,

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<v Speaker 2>she hasn't he's gonna cheat again. That's different than when

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<v Speaker 2>someone says he's cheated on you, he's done it again.

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<v Speaker 2>He is, yeah, And it's like that makes me kind

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<v Speaker 2>of stop more in my tracks and to be like,

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<v Speaker 2>if you have the proof, just give it to me,

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<v Speaker 2>but don't, don't don't come on my page. And and

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<v Speaker 2>that's just.

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<v Speaker 3>That's just wrong.

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<v Speaker 2>So whoever you are or that's it's just wrong and

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<v Speaker 2>it's mean and it's calculated, and it just feels so ugly.

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<v Speaker 4>And it's tragic that somebody out there just thought that

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<v Speaker 4>would be funny, right, or thought there'd be fun And

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<v Speaker 4>do you think she'll respond like, oh my gosh, she's

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<v Speaker 4>responding like the the whole mindset of that is just

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<v Speaker 4>you know, we've talked endlessly about social media right now

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<v Speaker 4>and what assessed pool of the comments can be and stuff,

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<v Speaker 4>But really it's really depressing that somebody feels like that

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<v Speaker 4>would be a good time to try to mess with

0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:43.239
<v Speaker 4>your relationship, Like that question, why not go to Mike initially?

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<v Speaker 4>Did you consider before you even responded to this person?

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<v Speaker 4>Did you consider going to Mic right away?

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<v Speaker 3>Why I didn't?

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<v Speaker 2>And I think why he says he hopes that we

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<v Speaker 2>can get to that place is because usually there is

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<v Speaker 2>truth to something like that.

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<v Speaker 4>She was.

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<v Speaker 1>Scared of me lying yeah, sure, which I totally understood.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't blame right, I mean I had, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the first Instagram girl a million years ago, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>reached out and I was like, hey, Mike, and I did.

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, I just got to text a DM

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<v Speaker 2>saying that some girl you slept with some girl and

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<v Speaker 2>he's like.

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<v Speaker 3>What, No, I would never.

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<v Speaker 2>And then I'm like, in that same breath, I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>can you show me some proof? And she sent messages

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<v Speaker 2>and I was like, then what is this?

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<v Speaker 6>You know?

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<v Speaker 2>So it's like it's that because you know, and then

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<v Speaker 2>just last Christmas being like are you on anything?

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<v Speaker 1>You know?

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<v Speaker 3>And he was lying.

0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:44.400
<v Speaker 2>So it's that's the unfortunate part, and that's where we're

0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:45.960
<v Speaker 2>going to have to get to I hope that we

0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:47.840
<v Speaker 2>can get to that place of years down the line

0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:49.800
<v Speaker 2>where I can I can just go to him and

0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:50.960
<v Speaker 2>not believe it for a second.

0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:53.280
<v Speaker 5>Why do you believe him now? Just then?

0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:56.480
<v Speaker 4>I'm not trying to cause trouble, but because she vanished

0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:59.320
<v Speaker 4>like that, because she was clearly causing problems.

0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:04.240
<v Speaker 2>It's not that I I don't think she fully believes

0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:09.840
<v Speaker 2>me yet I have a hard time believing it, but

0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:14.880
<v Speaker 2>I also don't. At the same time. What my therapist

0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:21.440
<v Speaker 2>helped me kind of talk about was that I brought

0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:24.600
<v Speaker 2>it up. He has now told me his truth. It's

0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:29.800
<v Speaker 2>now something that I can't It's not on me to

0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:34.440
<v Speaker 2>be detective or control or it's now in I honestly,

0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.000
<v Speaker 2>it's in God's hands where if there's the truth will

0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:44.760
<v Speaker 2>show eventually, and that truth may be that it was

0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:47.360
<v Speaker 2>real or that it wasn't, and over time, hopefully it

0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:49.560
<v Speaker 2>will be that it wasn't and he'll continue, you know,

0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:52.120
<v Speaker 2>he'll come to me with things or be honest and

0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:55.320
<v Speaker 2>continue to be honest, and that way I can be

0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:58.880
<v Speaker 2>more quick to trusting him. But in the season that

0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:01.679
<v Speaker 2>we've been in the last five years, unfortunately it's not.

0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:03.360
<v Speaker 3>There that quick.

0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:08.240
<v Speaker 2>So do I believe it fully, No do I still

0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:11.160
<v Speaker 2>have a percentage of doubt a little bit, just because

0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:14.199
<v Speaker 2>I think that I'm human just have that.

0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:19.360
<v Speaker 1>Trauma from the past. I mean, this is the first situation.

0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:22.080
<v Speaker 2>Like this, and I think would also kind of put

0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:23.960
<v Speaker 2>a cherry on the top. Was the other day I

0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:27.360
<v Speaker 2>was on my Catherine's going to hear this the first

0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:33.320
<v Speaker 2>time on here. I was on my manager slash best

0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:36.960
<v Speaker 2>friend's phone and I was doing an audio recording on

0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:41.120
<v Speaker 2>her phone and she had like not many audio recordings,

0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:45.640
<v Speaker 2>and I just saw Mike Discovery day and I was

0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.040
<v Speaker 2>like what And I was like, oh my god, this

0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:52.840
<v Speaker 2>is we recorded when we confronted Mike, And like an idiot,

0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:56.360
<v Speaker 2>I listened to it, you know, and just like reliving

0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:58.360
<v Speaker 2>like all the like. It was just like it was

0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:01.080
<v Speaker 2>just heavy. But then hearing it be like no, so

0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:07.320
<v Speaker 2>it's just that didn't help with the emotions.

0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:08.760
<v Speaker 5>Is there any chance?

0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:10.960
<v Speaker 4>And I'm always looking at the bright side that this

0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:13.720
<v Speaker 4>is actually going to eventually be a positive step in

0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:17.320
<v Speaker 4>the sense that we're going to get past this And

0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:20.360
<v Speaker 4>then the next time somebody on Instagram does this, it's

0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:20.800
<v Speaker 4>not going.

0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:22.400
<v Speaker 5>To trigger you like the last ones did.

0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:24.560
<v Speaker 4>It's going to trigger the emotions of oh, no, another

0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:26.880
<v Speaker 4>person's trying to screw up our relationship because look here

0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:28.760
<v Speaker 4>we are giving a lot of attention to this, this

0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:32.120
<v Speaker 4>awful person on your podcast. Somebody else might try to

0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:34.280
<v Speaker 4>do it. Maybe that's going to make you trust Mike

0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:38.640
<v Speaker 4>Moore and the DMS less because we've gotten past this hurdle.

0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:42.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, that's the hope. Yeah, that's the hope.

0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:48.800
<v Speaker 1>Is that I mean for me, I will say it's

0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:54.240
<v Speaker 1>you know, it's nice to be in the like, it's

0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.120
<v Speaker 1>nice to actually be truthful, you know, you know what

0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:01.320
<v Speaker 1>I mean, Like for someone who's so used to lying

0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:03.600
<v Speaker 1>and being caught in a lie and being that way

0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:06.240
<v Speaker 1>so much of my life, especially in relationships and in

0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:11.400
<v Speaker 1>our marriage, you know, as much pain as I feel

0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:15.400
<v Speaker 1>and shame around the whole situation and seeing the hurt

0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:20.880
<v Speaker 1>that Janet is going through and myself feeling the pain

0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:25.040
<v Speaker 1>because of trauma from the past, the relief is, well,

0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:29.040
<v Speaker 1>I know the truth. I know my truth, and so

0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:33.200
<v Speaker 1>it is a relieving feeling, not having that like kicking

0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:37.480
<v Speaker 1>the gut feeling of like, oh, when's something gonna come

0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:40.000
<v Speaker 1>out that's gonna prove this right? And you know, what

0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:45.320
<v Speaker 1>and so that's for me, that's just the relief, but

0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.960
<v Speaker 1>I understand Jana can't have that yet, and so I'm

0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:51.880
<v Speaker 1>hoping again to reiterate, I'm hoping that this is just

0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:56.960
<v Speaker 1>a building block of trust, that the truth will show

0:16:57.000 --> 0:17:01.720
<v Speaker 1>itself in all its form that Jana can accept, and

0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:04.160
<v Speaker 1>then we move on to the the next time, because

0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:06.560
<v Speaker 1>like her therapist said, like you said, Mike, this probably

0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:08.080
<v Speaker 1>won't be the last time. We kind of have a

0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:10.440
<v Speaker 1>target on our backs. Yeah, you know what I mean.

0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:13.760
<v Speaker 2>So I think it's how we and you know what

0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:16.359
<v Speaker 2>my therapist is like, get a plan in place for

0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:19.160
<v Speaker 2>when this does happen next time, and you know.

0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:23.600
<v Speaker 3>Ask for the proof. But also you know.

0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:27.119
<v Speaker 2>How he handles it too, He's like, let's call it

0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:29.520
<v Speaker 2>like no, no, I don't want to say like people

0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:30.840
<v Speaker 2>don't do it because we don't want to call you,

0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:32.240
<v Speaker 2>but I mean.

0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:35.359
<v Speaker 1>We wouldn't call you with our numbers, so don't and.

0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.919
<v Speaker 2>We would probably you know, get some lawyers involved. So

0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:40.400
<v Speaker 2>it's not going to be a fun process.

0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:43.080
<v Speaker 1>But it's just to say hi. Yeah.

0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:45.479
<v Speaker 2>So I just I think it's just one of those

0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:50.720
<v Speaker 2>things where you know, hopefully I'm always open to the

0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:53.960
<v Speaker 2>truth and to proof, but I'm not open to bullshit.

0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:57.520
<v Speaker 4>It's tough because you can't prove a negative. As hard

0:17:57.520 --> 0:17:59.760
<v Speaker 4>as Mike would like to try and prove it to,

0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:02.679
<v Speaker 4>you can't prove he didn't do something that's so difficult

0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:07.800
<v Speaker 4>to establish. Has there been any uh, look at my messages,

0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:09.760
<v Speaker 4>look at my DMS? Or not even bothering because you

0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:13.960
<v Speaker 4>think this is a second device anyway, allegedly. Wait, what

0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:18.160
<v Speaker 4>do you mean, Like I'm saying, is he being overly

0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:21.560
<v Speaker 4>forthcoming with all of his private things to kind of

0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:22.639
<v Speaker 4>try to prove the negative?

0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:22.840
<v Speaker 5>Yeah?

0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:24.880
<v Speaker 4>I might, Yeah, he said, look look through my messages,

0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:27.440
<v Speaker 4>look through my DMS, like, I assure you nothing's happening.

0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:29.320
<v Speaker 3>But she said he deletes them.

0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:31.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah right, And I was like, let's get the phone bill,

0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:33.320
<v Speaker 1>let's look at the you know what I mean, like,

0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:35.600
<v Speaker 1>give us an else on her, give us a number,

0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:36.640
<v Speaker 1>a separate account.

0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:37.240
<v Speaker 5>I mean, it's so.

0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:39.960
<v Speaker 2>Hard to prove, and honestly, that just sounds exhausting.

0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:42.000
<v Speaker 1>It does sound exhausting.

0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:46.520
<v Speaker 2>So I just am like, Okay, I gotta I will

0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:49.840
<v Speaker 2>accept all things that I can control, and everything else

0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:54.600
<v Speaker 2>will just show its face and the truth will come

0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:56.120
<v Speaker 2>out one way or the other.

0:18:58.119 --> 0:18:59.480
<v Speaker 3>But that's that.

0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:04.840
<v Speaker 5>It's a bump in the road, and I think that's

0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:05.600
<v Speaker 5>all it's going to be.

0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:08.359
<v Speaker 3>Oh, I mean, yeah, yeah it was.

0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:12.879
<v Speaker 1>It was hard, but for sure, And again I know

0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:18.160
<v Speaker 1>I firmed you last night, but you were so adult

0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:20.760
<v Speaker 1>around all of this, and I just I commend the

0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:24.080
<v Speaker 1>hell out of you because that can't be easy, that

0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:26.800
<v Speaker 1>those triggers and the trauma and all of that, Like

0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:32.560
<v Speaker 1>anybody would nobody would blame you from going off and

0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:35.480
<v Speaker 1>shooting from the hip. And so I commend you for

0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:39.160
<v Speaker 1>the work that you did, and I think for us,

0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:41.919
<v Speaker 1>the work that we did around the situation and that

0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:45.840
<v Speaker 1>will continue to do. I think we've handled it individually

0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:47.440
<v Speaker 1>and together the best we can.

0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:49.880
<v Speaker 3>So not a bump, it's a win.

0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:54.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So thank you who ever did.

0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:58.560
<v Speaker 2>No, thank you to whoever did that, because that just

0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:00.640
<v Speaker 2>showed that I can trust my husband.

0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:04.439
<v Speaker 1>So thanks, but more so because you're not We're not

0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:06.640
<v Speaker 1>gonna let you. We're not gonna let you win.

0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:09.000
<v Speaker 3>No way.

0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:13.560
<v Speaker 1>Anyways, let's take a break and shake that one off.

0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:28.600
<v Speaker 1>I love you, love you all right. All right, guys,

0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:31.879
<v Speaker 1>we're so excited about our guests today because we're on

0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:34.280
<v Speaker 1>opposite spectrums of them, So there's gonna be a lot

0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:35.000
<v Speaker 1>of questions.

0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:39.240
<v Speaker 3>But I mean, yes, but also like they live our dream.

0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:47.240
<v Speaker 1>I'm just kidding your dream. Oh my god, Stuned, there's

0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:48.880
<v Speaker 1>a whole other topic we get to talk about.

0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:51.480
<v Speaker 3>Well, I'm right, you guys.

0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:57.000
<v Speaker 1>We have the amazing divorced couple Ben and Nikki, who

0:20:57.000 --> 0:20:59.360
<v Speaker 1>are the authors of our Happy Divorce.

0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:03.400
<v Speaker 2>Hi, guys, I and apparently we just found out that

0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:06.600
<v Speaker 2>this is Mike's dream, so not my dream.

0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:08.520
<v Speaker 1>We were just talking, we were just talking about the

0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:12.040
<v Speaker 1>other day and just hypothetical, We're like, oh, we'd hope

0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:17.400
<v Speaker 1>we would be friends. Ah, I'm sorry, I'm myself hypothetically.

0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:21.640
<v Speaker 6>I don't think anybody gets like it has the decision

0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:23.479
<v Speaker 6>to get divorced and says, okay, how are we going

0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:25.520
<v Speaker 6>to hate each other for the rest of our lives

0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:28.320
<v Speaker 6>and live our lives with you know, all this toxic

0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:29.480
<v Speaker 6>energy forever?

0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:30.160
<v Speaker 1>Right?

0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:32.840
<v Speaker 6>It just people don't deal with the emotional side of

0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:36.040
<v Speaker 6>the divorce before they deal with the business side, you know.

0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:39.440
<v Speaker 6>So I don't think anything anybody premeditates. Let's not get

0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:41.240
<v Speaker 6>along and let's hate each other for the rest of.

0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:44.119
<v Speaker 1>Our lives, for sure, So give us us and our

0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:46.040
<v Speaker 1>listeners a little bit of your background. Do you guys

0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:48.240
<v Speaker 1>have any kids? And how long were you married and

0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:49.320
<v Speaker 1>when did you get divorced.

0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:52.919
<v Speaker 7>We were married seven years. We have one child together,

0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:56.360
<v Speaker 7>So then Ben has two other children that I consider

0:21:56.480 --> 0:21:58.960
<v Speaker 7>mine now even though I don't have to have I

0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:00.600
<v Speaker 7>don't have to have them twenty four hours a day.

0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:04.159
<v Speaker 7>I get to send them back. We got divorisd what

0:22:04.320 --> 0:22:06.000
<v Speaker 7>when our son was about three and a half.

0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:10.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So does it have anything to do with the

0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:11.439
<v Speaker 2>seven year itch at all?

0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:13.480
<v Speaker 3>You think No?

0:22:13.560 --> 0:22:16.160
<v Speaker 7>I think art started itching about year four.

0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:17.480
<v Speaker 8>We just started going.

0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:20.720
<v Speaker 6>I think our itch started before we even got married.

0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:23.120
<v Speaker 6>And I think, you know, looking back on it, we

0:22:23.320 --> 0:22:27.359
<v Speaker 6>went through every red light, every stop sign, every blinking

0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:30.760
<v Speaker 6>railroad track and just plopped through it. And we had

0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:33.000
<v Speaker 6>in our twenties at the dating in a couple of

0:22:33.080 --> 0:22:35.240
<v Speaker 6>years and it was like time, you know, it's.

0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:35.800
<v Speaker 8>Time to get married.

0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:39.680
<v Speaker 6>And we got married, and then we were always trying

0:22:39.680 --> 0:22:41.959
<v Speaker 6>to fit that square peg in the round hole. Instead

0:22:41.960 --> 0:22:44.800
<v Speaker 6>of realizing that it doesn't fit, we just kept on

0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:46.800
<v Speaker 6>trying to push it and make it fit. And then

0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:49.080
<v Speaker 6>we're like, Okay, well maybe we'll have a kid and

0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:51.960
<v Speaker 6>that's will make it fit, of course, and obviously would

0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:53.639
<v Speaker 6>never take that away because it's the best thing that

0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:56.119
<v Speaker 6>had happened to either of us. But you know, it

0:22:56.240 --> 0:22:57.840
<v Speaker 6>was one of those things that once we have our

0:22:57.920 --> 0:23:01.040
<v Speaker 6>kid and we were always our marriage was was always based.

0:23:00.800 --> 0:23:02.800
<v Speaker 7>On quarantine for two weeks home with his mother.

0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:05.360
<v Speaker 8>There's that, not his dad, thank god.

0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:08.600
<v Speaker 6>But it's the if onlys our marriage was always the

0:23:08.640 --> 0:23:10.960
<v Speaker 6>if onlies, if only Nikki would do this, if only

0:23:11.000 --> 0:23:13.480
<v Speaker 6>Ben would do this, you know, and not living in

0:23:13.800 --> 0:23:14.560
<v Speaker 6>the present.

0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:17.560
<v Speaker 2>What was y'all's conflict when you when you were married, Like,

0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:20.840
<v Speaker 2>what what eventually led y'all to, you know, to going

0:23:20.880 --> 0:23:24.040
<v Speaker 2>down the divorce option.

0:23:24.840 --> 0:23:28.320
<v Speaker 7>I think for us, we got being in love and

0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:31.960
<v Speaker 7>loving each other mixed up and there was like we

0:23:32.040 --> 0:23:35.440
<v Speaker 7>never really had any conflict. We were just like best

0:23:35.480 --> 0:23:38.440
<v Speaker 7>friends and we were like just sort of like two

0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:40.639
<v Speaker 7>ships passing in the night where we were more like

0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:43.120
<v Speaker 7>you know, pals living together instead of like lovers.

0:23:44.240 --> 0:23:46.560
<v Speaker 6>And then I think that, you know, again the square

0:23:46.560 --> 0:23:49.800
<v Speaker 6>peg thing is, but instead of realizing that that we

0:23:50.240 --> 0:23:54.280
<v Speaker 6>had gotten in love and loving each other confused, we

0:23:54.320 --> 0:23:57.480
<v Speaker 6>actually started getting more and more mad that that square

0:23:57.520 --> 0:23:59.919
<v Speaker 6>peg would fit in a round role and more resentful,

0:24:00.359 --> 0:24:04.199
<v Speaker 6>and so you know, at the end, it wasn't you know,

0:24:04.280 --> 0:24:06.640
<v Speaker 6>let's get divorced, Let's hug it out, we love each other,

0:24:06.760 --> 0:24:08.840
<v Speaker 6>Let's write a book called Our Happy Divorce. You know,

0:24:08.880 --> 0:24:11.639
<v Speaker 6>we had, you know, all the drama that you know,

0:24:11.880 --> 0:24:14.840
<v Speaker 6>marriages don't end on winning streaks, right, it's not you know,

0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:16.800
<v Speaker 6>people know, hey, you know, we had a fight last night.

0:24:16.880 --> 0:24:19.640
<v Speaker 6>Let's get married. You know it was it was years

0:24:21.119 --> 0:24:23.320
<v Speaker 6>of you know, talking about it, me moving out, me

0:24:23.400 --> 0:24:27.080
<v Speaker 6>moving back in, and then we made that decision. But

0:24:27.160 --> 0:24:30.040
<v Speaker 6>you know, one thing that's important in our story, in

0:24:30.080 --> 0:24:33.560
<v Speaker 6>our book is we don't really talk about what happened

0:24:34.480 --> 0:24:36.719
<v Speaker 6>because at the end of the day, the reason we

0:24:36.760 --> 0:24:39.080
<v Speaker 6>can sit here and talk about and you know, I

0:24:39.119 --> 0:24:40.800
<v Speaker 6>can say how much I love my ex wife and

0:24:40.840 --> 0:24:43.919
<v Speaker 6>she's my best friend, is because there's no villain in

0:24:43.960 --> 0:24:45.680
<v Speaker 6>our story, right, there's.

0:24:45.320 --> 0:24:46.640
<v Speaker 8>No bad guy.

0:24:46.720 --> 0:24:49.000
<v Speaker 6>There's It would make a terrible Hollywood movie, right because

0:24:49.040 --> 0:24:52.440
<v Speaker 6>there's no We We both have accepted that we had

0:24:52.480 --> 0:24:54.280
<v Speaker 6>equal parts in the ending of our marriage and to

0:24:54.480 --> 0:24:56.120
<v Speaker 6>to to make it and it would take to a break.

0:24:56.800 --> 0:25:00.800
<v Speaker 2>Are there any regrets at all with you know, not

0:25:01.080 --> 0:25:06.880
<v Speaker 2>trying and giving it more? Maybe more therapy or more

0:25:07.200 --> 0:25:08.840
<v Speaker 2>not that you I'm sure you guys gave it a

0:25:08.920 --> 0:25:09.600
<v Speaker 2>ton of effort.

0:25:09.960 --> 0:25:11.280
<v Speaker 3>I'm not saying that y'all did it at all.

0:25:11.280 --> 0:25:14.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm just saying, like, is there any you know, sleepless

0:25:14.920 --> 0:25:16.800
<v Speaker 2>nights or any regrets? Like, ah, man, I wish I

0:25:16.800 --> 0:25:18.320
<v Speaker 2>would have done this or tried this.

0:25:20.480 --> 0:25:23.680
<v Speaker 7>I think I think one of the things that you know,

0:25:23.960 --> 0:25:27.760
<v Speaker 7>divorce couples don't realize is like we've done I'm going

0:25:27.800 --> 0:25:29.240
<v Speaker 7>to pat us on the back. We've done a really

0:25:29.240 --> 0:25:34.040
<v Speaker 7>good job of making this as easy and as like

0:25:34.280 --> 0:25:36.960
<v Speaker 7>great as we could for our son. But like, even

0:25:37.320 --> 0:25:39.280
<v Speaker 7>how when was that trip like three years ago you

0:25:39.320 --> 0:25:42.160
<v Speaker 7>took asheron that He looked at you and he said,

0:25:42.200 --> 0:25:46.240
<v Speaker 7>you know, Dad, this divorce is really hard. And you

0:25:46.280 --> 0:25:49.600
<v Speaker 7>know he was what fourteen, he was probably fourteen, and

0:25:49.680 --> 0:25:51.399
<v Speaker 7>you know, Ben at that point wanted to look at

0:25:51.480 --> 0:25:55.000
<v Speaker 7>him and go, you know, you're a brat, Like did

0:25:55.040 --> 0:25:56.800
<v Speaker 7>you know what we've gone through to make sure that

0:25:56.880 --> 0:25:58.880
<v Speaker 7>your life is so like the way it is now?

0:25:59.240 --> 0:26:01.920
<v Speaker 7>But I mean that, like that's one of those things

0:26:01.960 --> 0:26:03.560
<v Speaker 7>that just kind of like digs at you. Because my

0:26:03.560 --> 0:26:06.200
<v Speaker 7>parents are still married, they've been married for fifty two years.

0:26:06.240 --> 0:26:09.760
<v Speaker 7>Whether they should still be married or not regardless, but

0:26:10.040 --> 0:26:12.720
<v Speaker 7>they're still married. So I never had that. And so

0:26:12.800 --> 0:26:14.760
<v Speaker 7>to hear him say, you know, for him to be

0:26:14.800 --> 0:26:18.040
<v Speaker 7>able to say something like that, knowing all the work

0:26:18.080 --> 0:26:20.399
<v Speaker 7>we put in, and like the relationship that Ben and

0:26:20.440 --> 0:26:22.560
<v Speaker 7>I have and the relationship Ben's wife and I have,

0:26:22.680 --> 0:26:25.840
<v Speaker 7>and the relationship Ben has with my husband, Like, it

0:26:26.440 --> 0:26:29.000
<v Speaker 7>really kills a kid. And I think that's one of

0:26:29.040 --> 0:26:31.480
<v Speaker 7>the hardest things for me that I was like, that

0:26:31.560 --> 0:26:33.119
<v Speaker 7>was the number one thing I thought, I'm never I

0:26:33.160 --> 0:26:34.480
<v Speaker 7>don't ever want to do that to my kid.

0:26:34.800 --> 0:26:38.560
<v Speaker 6>But right there is a lot I mean, that is

0:26:38.600 --> 0:26:41.159
<v Speaker 6>the one thing I don't think that. I mean, I

0:26:41.200 --> 0:26:45.400
<v Speaker 6>think I can honestly wholeheartedly say that Nick and I

0:26:45.440 --> 0:26:48.600
<v Speaker 6>tried everything to try to make the square bag fitting

0:26:48.640 --> 0:26:51.080
<v Speaker 6>a round hole. And I hate to keep on using that,

0:26:51.119 --> 0:26:54.399
<v Speaker 6>but you know, we went to therapy, you know, NICKI

0:26:55.720 --> 0:26:57.720
<v Speaker 6>I think she would have tried more. I think that's

0:26:57.720 --> 0:27:01.680
<v Speaker 6>fair to say, right because of the ill of this,

0:27:02.160 --> 0:27:05.960
<v Speaker 6>she would have stayed together, I think for Asher, which

0:27:05.960 --> 0:27:07.600
<v Speaker 6>I think is all the wrong reasons. And I think

0:27:07.600 --> 0:27:10.080
<v Speaker 6>his parents, you know, that's a tough decision.

0:27:10.119 --> 0:27:15.720
<v Speaker 8>I killed you. So we're good. So literally but but

0:27:15.920 --> 0:27:18.560
<v Speaker 8>you know, I think as parents, it's like, at least.

0:27:18.320 --> 0:27:21.760
<v Speaker 6>I had to come to the decision what I'd rather

0:27:21.840 --> 0:27:26.160
<v Speaker 6>have two parents together who are miserable, who are two

0:27:26.240 --> 0:27:30.040
<v Speaker 6>parents who are who are happy? Because what does that teach,

0:27:30.359 --> 0:27:35.800
<v Speaker 6>you know, our son about growing up in a loveless, affectionate,

0:27:36.080 --> 0:27:37.200
<v Speaker 6>less marriage.

0:27:37.440 --> 0:27:38.960
<v Speaker 8>You know, I don't think that's a good example of

0:27:38.960 --> 0:27:39.320
<v Speaker 8>his parents.

0:27:39.440 --> 0:27:41.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And you know, Mike and I kind of and

0:27:41.480 --> 0:27:43.320
<v Speaker 2>I think to like, you know, I know he joked

0:27:43.320 --> 0:27:45.280
<v Speaker 2>in the beginning, but we had kind of talked about that.

0:27:45.320 --> 0:27:47.880
<v Speaker 2>Were sometimes like in the very beginning of our situation,

0:27:48.040 --> 0:27:50.720
<v Speaker 2>I stayed because of our daughter, and it's like, eventually

0:27:51.800 --> 0:27:56.159
<v Speaker 2>it's not healthy, Like you guys said to stay just

0:27:56.280 --> 0:27:58.159
<v Speaker 2>for your kid. Now, do we want the kids to

0:27:58.160 --> 0:28:00.800
<v Speaker 2>be under one roof? Absolutely, like that's the dream white

0:28:00.840 --> 0:28:05.080
<v Speaker 2>picket fence goal. But if it's not healthy for either one.

0:28:05.119 --> 0:28:06.919
<v Speaker 2>And sometimes when we do joke about it, I'm like,

0:28:06.960 --> 0:28:10.520
<v Speaker 2>you would probably be happy with someone else, you know, maybe,

0:28:11.240 --> 0:28:15.840
<v Speaker 2>and you know, I mean, but I'm like, you wouldn't

0:28:15.880 --> 0:28:19.560
<v Speaker 2>have these restrictions or these boundaries or whatever, And you

0:28:19.560 --> 0:28:22.400
<v Speaker 2>know I would, I wouldn't be you know, flipping beds

0:28:22.440 --> 0:28:24.439
<v Speaker 2>wondered about where's this hidden phone.

0:28:24.480 --> 0:28:27.879
<v Speaker 3>I don't know where's the phone.

0:28:29.440 --> 0:28:31.280
<v Speaker 2>But you know, at the end of the day, we're

0:28:31.359 --> 0:28:34.960
<v Speaker 2>still you know, we're there's that love that's still there,

0:28:34.960 --> 0:28:35.679
<v Speaker 2>and that's how we know.

0:28:35.720 --> 0:28:36.359
<v Speaker 3>We like that.

0:28:36.400 --> 0:28:39.480
<v Speaker 2>We keep fighting for our relationship. But when that love goes,

0:28:40.000 --> 0:28:42.040
<v Speaker 2>You're right, it's not it's not healthy for the kids.

0:28:42.040 --> 0:28:43.640
<v Speaker 2>And at the end of the day, it's like, that

0:28:43.680 --> 0:28:45.840
<v Speaker 2>would have killed me to NICKI if I heard that,

0:28:46.000 --> 0:28:48.200
<v Speaker 2>because I'd have been like, you have no idea, Like

0:28:48.240 --> 0:28:51.200
<v Speaker 2>this has all been for you, like for the benefit

0:28:51.280 --> 0:28:53.760
<v Speaker 2>or for you, and it's like, oh, I can't even imagine.

0:28:53.800 --> 0:28:55.800
<v Speaker 2>Like when you said that, I'm like, that must have

0:28:56.040 --> 0:28:57.360
<v Speaker 2>just stung so bad.

0:28:57.640 --> 0:28:59.920
<v Speaker 6>It's stung in My first reaction was like Nicky said,

0:29:00.000 --> 0:29:01.080
<v Speaker 6>it's like you little s o B.

0:29:01.160 --> 0:29:02.840
<v Speaker 8>You have no idea because I grew up in a

0:29:03.000 --> 0:29:03.600
<v Speaker 8>I grew up.

0:29:03.480 --> 0:29:07.920
<v Speaker 6>In a high conflict divorce situation and completely different. But

0:29:07.960 --> 0:29:09.720
<v Speaker 6>then you know, then I was able to sit back

0:29:09.760 --> 0:29:11.600
<v Speaker 6>and not you know, at least in my older age,

0:29:11.640 --> 0:29:14.280
<v Speaker 6>I've tried to not react as much at first, but

0:29:14.440 --> 0:29:17.840
<v Speaker 6>think about it, and that's an empathy for him that yes,

0:29:17.920 --> 0:29:18.959
<v Speaker 6>it's not his choice.

0:29:19.000 --> 0:29:20.320
<v Speaker 8>It would never be his choice.

0:29:20.520 --> 0:29:23.800
<v Speaker 6>Even today, he says, you know, we get along, so well,

0:29:23.800 --> 0:29:24.880
<v Speaker 6>what's you know, what's the deal.

0:29:25.000 --> 0:29:27.000
<v Speaker 8>So, you know, but just the.

0:29:26.760 --> 0:29:31.360
<v Speaker 6>Logistics of having two homes, right, the logistics of forgetting

0:29:31.360 --> 0:29:34.240
<v Speaker 6>your math book at your mom's and I mean just

0:29:34.280 --> 0:29:36.480
<v Speaker 6>that that that in itself is hard. So I was

0:29:36.520 --> 0:29:38.600
<v Speaker 6>able to say, you know what, You're right, it is hard,

0:29:39.120 --> 0:29:42.000
<v Speaker 6>you know. And we live seven houses down from each other,

0:29:42.160 --> 0:29:43.880
<v Speaker 6>so if he forgets his math book, he can just

0:29:43.920 --> 0:29:47.120
<v Speaker 6>walk over and get it. But you know, so you know,

0:29:47.160 --> 0:29:50.040
<v Speaker 6>we we we've we've tried to make it as as

0:29:50.080 --> 0:29:52.080
<v Speaker 6>soft as the landing as possible for him, and I

0:29:52.080 --> 0:29:53.720
<v Speaker 6>think we've you know, done a pretty.

0:29:53.440 --> 0:29:53.920
<v Speaker 8>Good job at that.

0:29:54.280 --> 0:29:58.000
<v Speaker 1>How is that relationship with because Ben, you're remarried, we're

0:29:58.000 --> 0:30:00.640
<v Speaker 1>both you're both are married, you know, because the only

0:30:00.640 --> 0:30:02.200
<v Speaker 1>people I can think of are like our friends Kyle

0:30:02.240 --> 0:30:05.040
<v Speaker 1>and Sarah and then Kat his X where it's like

0:30:05.080 --> 0:30:07.680
<v Speaker 1>those we have these one friends that they're the only

0:30:07.720 --> 0:30:12.040
<v Speaker 1>ones I've seen that really get along as well as

0:30:12.320 --> 0:30:14.920
<v Speaker 1>I've ever seen a you know, a split family per

0:30:14.960 --> 0:30:18.080
<v Speaker 1>se get along with new wives, ex wives, you know,

0:30:18.120 --> 0:30:21.120
<v Speaker 1>old children, current children, and so it seems like you

0:30:21.160 --> 0:30:22.600
<v Speaker 1>guys have been able to do that.

0:30:23.480 --> 0:30:26.120
<v Speaker 3>How it looks nice? And sometimes I'm like, man, that

0:30:26.280 --> 0:30:27.360
<v Speaker 3>just looks yeah, it's like.

0:30:27.280 --> 0:30:29.440
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I just get you as a friend, and yeah,

0:30:29.480 --> 0:30:32.480
<v Speaker 1>it's easy just to be a friend. Sometimes, How did

0:30:32.480 --> 0:30:35.200
<v Speaker 1>you guys explain like the work behind that, because I'm

0:30:35.240 --> 0:30:38.160
<v Speaker 1>sure you didn't. Just like, Okay, everyone's great in friends.

0:30:38.160 --> 0:30:39.120
<v Speaker 1>So no it.

0:30:39.400 --> 0:30:41.200
<v Speaker 6>You know, we we use the term we faked it

0:30:41.240 --> 0:30:44.920
<v Speaker 6>till we made it, and that is, you know, as

0:30:45.120 --> 0:30:46.280
<v Speaker 6>honest as we can get it.

0:30:46.320 --> 0:30:49.720
<v Speaker 8>You know, Nikki started dating Chad or husband.

0:30:49.800 --> 0:30:54.080
<v Speaker 6>Now we were I knew Chad he was, you know,

0:30:54.640 --> 0:30:56.800
<v Speaker 6>around when we were married, and and you know that

0:30:56.960 --> 0:31:00.720
<v Speaker 6>is a shot to the ego in itself, much less

0:31:00.760 --> 0:31:03.800
<v Speaker 6>having another man around my son is a shot.

0:31:03.560 --> 0:31:04.040
<v Speaker 8>To the ego.

0:31:04.120 --> 0:31:08.400
<v Speaker 6>But you know, I this just is this one thing

0:31:08.400 --> 0:31:12.160
<v Speaker 6>that I always remember. I was coaching Asher's baseball and

0:31:12.360 --> 0:31:13.120
<v Speaker 6>Nicki and Chad.

0:31:13.200 --> 0:31:15.120
<v Speaker 8>It was the first time that I really was had

0:31:15.160 --> 0:31:17.640
<v Speaker 8>seen him around. I knew they were dating.

0:31:18.720 --> 0:31:21.920
<v Speaker 6>But you know, after the game, Asher ran over and

0:31:21.960 --> 0:31:25.520
<v Speaker 6>gave Nicki and Chad a hug, and I remember like

0:31:25.600 --> 0:31:30.080
<v Speaker 6>walking over there going, Okay, what's best fresh, what's best fresh?

0:31:30.280 --> 0:31:31.040
<v Speaker 6>What's best fresh?

0:31:31.200 --> 0:31:33.880
<v Speaker 8>Meanwhile, you know you know. I mean, guys like egos

0:31:34.000 --> 0:31:35.440
<v Speaker 8>just much less. I know this guy.

0:31:35.600 --> 0:31:37.800
<v Speaker 6>Now my son's running over to him, meeting him, and

0:31:37.800 --> 0:31:40.360
<v Speaker 6>it's like and then I just put on my my

0:31:40.360 --> 0:31:42.600
<v Speaker 6>big boy pants, you know, and I put on a

0:31:42.640 --> 0:31:45.360
<v Speaker 6>fake smile. It probably was the most awkward while in

0:31:45.400 --> 0:31:46.320
<v Speaker 6>the history of the world.

0:31:46.520 --> 0:31:47.200
<v Speaker 8>But I went over.

0:31:47.240 --> 0:31:49.000
<v Speaker 6>The first thing I did was give Chad a hug,

0:31:49.440 --> 0:31:51.400
<v Speaker 6>and I gave Nicki a kiss, and I just made it.

0:31:51.320 --> 0:31:53.360
<v Speaker 8>As normal as possible fresh.

0:31:53.520 --> 0:31:56.280
<v Speaker 6>You know. And then you know, the next time it

0:31:56.320 --> 0:31:58.440
<v Speaker 6>was a little easier. The next time it's the but look,

0:31:58.480 --> 0:32:01.080
<v Speaker 6>it's still not easy today. This is fourteen years later.

0:32:01.120 --> 0:32:02.960
<v Speaker 8>I love Chad, you.

0:32:02.920 --> 0:32:05.080
<v Speaker 6>Know, and you know, they went down fishing in the

0:32:05.120 --> 0:32:07.680
<v Speaker 6>Keys early in summer and Asher came.

0:32:07.760 --> 0:32:09.760
<v Speaker 8>He goes, oh, Chad and I are going fishing. My

0:32:09.880 --> 0:32:12.760
<v Speaker 8>first reaction still is like, oh, you know, it's like

0:32:12.800 --> 0:32:14.240
<v Speaker 8>a little gut punch, you know.

0:32:14.520 --> 0:32:16.760
<v Speaker 6>Fourteen years later, we wrote a freaking book called Our

0:32:16.800 --> 0:32:17.400
<v Speaker 6>Happy Divorce.

0:32:17.440 --> 0:32:19.280
<v Speaker 2>But it's still not matter, which, by the way, you

0:32:19.320 --> 0:32:22.000
<v Speaker 2>can get at our happydivorce dot com. There's support, you

0:32:22.040 --> 0:32:25.920
<v Speaker 2>can resources, blogs, and where you can also buy the book.

0:32:25.960 --> 0:32:27.320
<v Speaker 3>Our happydivorce dot com.

0:32:27.360 --> 0:32:30.080
<v Speaker 7>The hardest part for me was like listening to my

0:32:30.240 --> 0:32:32.880
<v Speaker 7>son tell me that like some other woman was putting

0:32:32.920 --> 0:32:36.080
<v Speaker 7>him to bed at night, and like, uh, that was like,

0:32:36.640 --> 0:32:38.720
<v Speaker 7>you know, to a mother's heart, it's just like it's

0:32:38.760 --> 0:32:42.160
<v Speaker 7>like someone's stabbing you. But a funny Asher story was

0:32:42.400 --> 0:32:46.240
<v Speaker 7>when he before I had met Nadia, Ben's current wife,

0:32:47.200 --> 0:32:49.400
<v Speaker 7>Asher I called. I would call him every night to

0:32:49.400 --> 0:32:50.800
<v Speaker 7>say a night to him when he wasn't with me,

0:32:50.960 --> 0:32:53.400
<v Speaker 7>and I called over there one night and I was like,

0:32:54.120 --> 0:32:55.680
<v Speaker 7>you know, I just want to, you know, saying good

0:32:55.720 --> 0:32:57.840
<v Speaker 7>night to you, and he said, hey, mom, I said, what,

0:32:58.040 --> 0:33:01.880
<v Speaker 7>he's probably about four I have at this point, and

0:33:01.920 --> 0:33:06.120
<v Speaker 7>he said, mom, do you know Nadia? And I said, no,

0:33:06.560 --> 0:33:09.320
<v Speaker 7>I know who she is, but I you know, mommy

0:33:09.320 --> 0:33:11.280
<v Speaker 7>hasn't met Baudia yet. And he goes, well, here, I

0:33:11.320 --> 0:33:13.360
<v Speaker 7>think you should talk to her and he puts her

0:33:13.400 --> 0:33:15.200
<v Speaker 7>on the phone.

0:33:15.560 --> 0:33:16.480
<v Speaker 5>Oh my god.

0:33:17.000 --> 0:33:18.760
<v Speaker 7>But you know that was his way of saying, you

0:33:18.760 --> 0:33:20.920
<v Speaker 7>know what, there's this girl that I'm hanging out with,

0:33:21.280 --> 0:33:23.760
<v Speaker 7>that daddy's hanging out with, but I think you should

0:33:23.800 --> 0:33:26.880
<v Speaker 7>know this girl too. And he was like smart enough

0:33:26.920 --> 0:33:29.240
<v Speaker 7>to kind of go, okay, let me just just break

0:33:29.240 --> 0:33:31.600
<v Speaker 7>the ice here and let mommy really like, you know,

0:33:31.720 --> 0:33:32.400
<v Speaker 7>let them talk.

0:33:33.000 --> 0:33:36.560
<v Speaker 8>Wow, they forced the introduction smart.

0:33:37.240 --> 0:33:39.280
<v Speaker 2>What are some of the what are some of the

0:33:39.320 --> 0:33:44.480
<v Speaker 2>tools in the book that if our listeners are divorced, like,

0:33:44.520 --> 0:33:45.640
<v Speaker 2>what can they learn from them?

0:33:46.080 --> 0:33:46.240
<v Speaker 8>Well?

0:33:46.280 --> 0:33:49.040
<v Speaker 6>I think the one thing is in sports say, we're

0:33:49.040 --> 0:33:51.440
<v Speaker 6>not doctors, we're not lawyers, we're not therapists.

0:33:51.480 --> 0:33:53.680
<v Speaker 8>We're just people with the lived experience, you know.

0:33:53.840 --> 0:33:58.280
<v Speaker 6>And uh, you know, my lived experience was a pretty high,

0:33:58.320 --> 0:33:59.800
<v Speaker 6>like I said, a high conflict divorce.

0:34:00.920 --> 0:34:02.000
<v Speaker 8>And just to show.

0:34:01.760 --> 0:34:06.040
<v Speaker 6>You how big of a deal and what big.

0:34:05.880 --> 0:34:06.760
<v Speaker 8>Emotions this was.

0:34:06.800 --> 0:34:11.520
<v Speaker 6>When I left the house, I left angry, I left bitter,

0:34:11.880 --> 0:34:14.799
<v Speaker 6>I left pointing the finger at Nikki it was all

0:34:14.800 --> 0:34:17.000
<v Speaker 6>her fault. And I went out, and I hired this big,

0:34:17.040 --> 0:34:20.000
<v Speaker 6>fancy lawyer and was going to go down the same

0:34:20.080 --> 0:34:23.440
<v Speaker 6>path as my parents, despite having that experience, you know,

0:34:23.480 --> 0:34:27.640
<v Speaker 6>despite having that, you know, being in that toxic environment

0:34:27.960 --> 0:34:31.279
<v Speaker 6>and getting handed a bill, emotional bill to pay for

0:34:31.360 --> 0:34:32.520
<v Speaker 6>something I had no choice in.

0:34:32.719 --> 0:34:34.000
<v Speaker 8>But yet I was going to do that to my

0:34:34.040 --> 0:34:34.560
<v Speaker 8>son again.

0:34:35.680 --> 0:34:38.840
<v Speaker 6>But luckily colmer heads prevailed eventually, and I was able

0:34:38.880 --> 0:34:42.040
<v Speaker 6>to realize that I knew where that path ended and

0:34:42.080 --> 0:34:43.160
<v Speaker 6>wanted to find a different path.

0:34:43.200 --> 0:34:44.359
<v Speaker 8>But I think the different.

0:34:44.000 --> 0:34:47.560
<v Speaker 6>Path that we found was and this is gonna sound apathetic,

0:34:47.640 --> 0:34:50.840
<v Speaker 6>and it's gonna sound apathetic on purpose, but divorce is

0:34:50.920 --> 0:34:55.040
<v Speaker 6>just a business deal, right, You're just splitting assets, you're making,

0:34:55.239 --> 0:34:58.000
<v Speaker 6>you know, a financial thing. The problem is that it

0:34:58.040 --> 0:35:02.480
<v Speaker 6>gets mixed with every every negative emotion you could possibly have.

0:35:03.120 --> 0:35:05.360
<v Speaker 8>And you know, the only.

0:35:05.160 --> 0:35:07.680
<v Speaker 6>Advice that I would give people that we did, that

0:35:07.719 --> 0:35:09.920
<v Speaker 6>we did write is that we dealt with the emotional

0:35:10.000 --> 0:35:13.279
<v Speaker 6>side first. We dealt with our stuff first, individually, our

0:35:13.320 --> 0:35:16.520
<v Speaker 6>side of the street, and we both agreed. And that's

0:35:16.560 --> 0:35:20.080
<v Speaker 6>why there's no villain because we both have equal parts

0:35:20.080 --> 0:35:21.440
<v Speaker 6>in the ending of the marriage, just like we have

0:35:21.520 --> 0:35:24.359
<v Speaker 6>equal parts. And that's why when we wrote this book,

0:35:24.400 --> 0:35:26.200
<v Speaker 6>I said the only way I'm writing it was if

0:35:26.280 --> 0:35:29.799
<v Speaker 6>Nikki doesn't with because it takes two to make a relationship,

0:35:30.080 --> 0:35:32.960
<v Speaker 6>and it takes two to ruin a relationship. So if

0:35:33.000 --> 0:35:35.640
<v Speaker 6>any piece of advice that I can give people is

0:35:35.680 --> 0:35:38.479
<v Speaker 6>there's no prize for getting divorce the quick.

0:35:38.960 --> 0:35:40.920
<v Speaker 7>You need to take care of your stuff before you

0:35:40.960 --> 0:35:42.000
<v Speaker 7>can take care of each other's.

0:35:42.360 --> 0:35:45.359
<v Speaker 1>For sure. I have a question for both of you, sorry, Ben,

0:35:45.440 --> 0:35:48.960
<v Speaker 1>real quick, Nikki. I'll start with you because I'm interested

0:35:49.040 --> 0:35:52.239
<v Speaker 1>because you guys have a similar dynamic. Where like Ben,

0:35:52.280 --> 0:35:55.680
<v Speaker 1>you said you come from a divorce parents, Janna comes

0:35:55.719 --> 0:35:58.400
<v Speaker 1>from divorce parents. Nikki, My parents are like yours. My

0:35:58.480 --> 0:36:03.120
<v Speaker 1>parents have been married thirty plays years. Did you guys individually,

0:36:03.800 --> 0:36:06.759
<v Speaker 1>was that an added pressure? Was it like Ben more?

0:36:06.760 --> 0:36:09.399
<v Speaker 1>Were you more normalized to it so you're like, yeah,

0:36:09.440 --> 0:36:11.440
<v Speaker 1>I'll just get divorced. Nikki, did you feel more pressured

0:36:11.440 --> 0:36:13.520
<v Speaker 1>because of your parents being married so long? I'm just

0:36:13.560 --> 0:36:14.880
<v Speaker 1>curious about how that impacts.

0:36:14.880 --> 0:36:15.960
<v Speaker 4>Oh yeah, I.

0:36:15.920 --> 0:36:18.480
<v Speaker 7>Mean, and I have three sisters, two like, and they're

0:36:18.520 --> 0:36:22.000
<v Speaker 7>both married, and I think that I honestly, I am

0:36:22.040 --> 0:36:24.640
<v Speaker 7>the first person in my family to get divorced, like

0:36:24.800 --> 0:36:27.319
<v Speaker 7>even like extended family, I don't think any of there's

0:36:27.320 --> 0:36:30.000
<v Speaker 7>I don't think there's anybody so and I'm the baby

0:36:30.040 --> 0:36:32.719
<v Speaker 7>of the family. So for me to like have to

0:36:32.719 --> 0:36:36.320
<v Speaker 7>go to my parents, who you know, are semi religious

0:36:36.400 --> 0:36:38.279
<v Speaker 7>and like, you know, believe in the thing to be

0:36:38.320 --> 0:36:40.600
<v Speaker 7>of marriage and all that stuff. But like for me

0:36:40.760 --> 0:36:43.080
<v Speaker 7>to have to go to them and say hey, by

0:36:43.120 --> 0:36:45.759
<v Speaker 7>the way, that, I think that was almost scarier than

0:36:45.760 --> 0:36:48.439
<v Speaker 7>getting divorced himself. I was scared of death.

0:36:50.160 --> 0:36:52.400
<v Speaker 6>It's funny because it's, as you said, as it was

0:36:52.560 --> 0:36:56.560
<v Speaker 6>easier for me, and it was actually, you know, it's

0:36:56.560 --> 0:36:59.239
<v Speaker 6>like I grew up around alcohol and drug use as

0:36:59.239 --> 0:37:01.680
<v Speaker 6>a kid, and I was like, you know, and then

0:37:02.000 --> 0:37:04.800
<v Speaker 6>turned into an alcoholic and attic and luckily got over.

0:37:04.640 --> 0:37:06.520
<v Speaker 8>That or get sober pretty young.

0:37:06.840 --> 0:37:10.040
<v Speaker 6>But it's not something like I sought out to do, right,

0:37:10.080 --> 0:37:13.239
<v Speaker 6>I mean, it wasn't like even though even though you know,

0:37:13.560 --> 0:37:15.520
<v Speaker 6>and I told Nikki this, it's in the book, you know,

0:37:16.080 --> 0:37:18.080
<v Speaker 6>on our wedding day, I was looking at the mirror

0:37:18.320 --> 0:37:20.040
<v Speaker 6>I had hair at the time, I was doing my hair,

0:37:20.160 --> 0:37:23.560
<v Speaker 6>and I you know, it wasn't just cold feet. It

0:37:23.640 --> 0:37:26.440
<v Speaker 6>was an honest look into my soul saying you shouldn't

0:37:26.480 --> 0:37:29.040
<v Speaker 6>do this. This isn't the right you know, this isn't

0:37:29.080 --> 0:37:31.040
<v Speaker 6>the right thing to do. But yet I went through

0:37:31.160 --> 0:37:33.360
<v Speaker 6>and you know, we talked about those red flashing lights

0:37:33.400 --> 0:37:36.360
<v Speaker 6>and the you know, railroad tracks, and but it wasn't

0:37:36.480 --> 0:37:39.640
<v Speaker 6>even with that. It wasn't something that I ever intended

0:37:39.680 --> 0:37:42.960
<v Speaker 6>to get divorced, you know, or or ever thought that

0:37:43.000 --> 0:37:43.400
<v Speaker 6>I would.

0:37:43.640 --> 0:37:47.839
<v Speaker 2>But you know, how was the writing process Because if

0:37:47.840 --> 0:37:50.000
<v Speaker 2>you weren't divorced, then do you think you would have

0:37:50.120 --> 0:37:52.600
<v Speaker 2>because I know with Michael and I we were because

0:37:52.640 --> 0:37:54.560
<v Speaker 2>we just you know, we wrote a book and it's

0:37:55.480 --> 0:37:58.360
<v Speaker 2>we our writing styles are just very different. So it

0:37:58.400 --> 0:38:00.520
<v Speaker 2>was you know, maybe it was easier you guys being

0:38:00.560 --> 0:38:02.080
<v Speaker 2>divorced so you didn't have to write together.

0:38:03.080 --> 0:38:06.080
<v Speaker 9>Nope, Nikki, Yeah, I mean, I can't even tell you

0:38:06.120 --> 0:38:08.200
<v Speaker 9>how many times I told Ben, I'm to stick this

0:38:08.239 --> 0:38:11.880
<v Speaker 9>book up your butt, Like how many times I'm like,

0:38:11.960 --> 0:38:13.480
<v Speaker 9>I have so many times I would call them and go,

0:38:13.600 --> 0:38:15.160
<v Speaker 9>I'm not doing your stupid book.

0:38:15.560 --> 0:38:19.120
<v Speaker 6>But that's because we're going to fighting up because anything but.

0:38:19.040 --> 0:38:20.880
<v Speaker 7>Two, I mean, you have to rehash a lot of

0:38:20.880 --> 0:38:23.640
<v Speaker 7>stuff when you're trying to like dig right.

0:38:24.400 --> 0:38:27.920
<v Speaker 8>But yeah, the idea was and it's not original. I

0:38:27.920 --> 0:38:29.319
<v Speaker 8>don't know if you guys ever saw the.

0:38:30.880 --> 0:38:34.600
<v Speaker 6>Series The Affair, Yes, and how they took one situation

0:38:34.880 --> 0:38:36.680
<v Speaker 6>and you know, each half an hour of the show

0:38:36.800 --> 0:38:39.719
<v Speaker 6>was you know, one person's perspective, and so that's the

0:38:39.800 --> 0:38:43.680
<v Speaker 6>sort of framework we took. So we alternated chapters. Uh,

0:38:43.840 --> 0:38:46.319
<v Speaker 6>And I never I read in her chapters, but I

0:38:46.400 --> 0:38:48.640
<v Speaker 6>never changed it. You know, it was her story, it

0:38:48.719 --> 0:38:51.279
<v Speaker 6>was her experience. She never changed mind, no matter what

0:38:51.280 --> 0:38:53.040
<v Speaker 6>I said, no matter what I did, and we just

0:38:53.280 --> 0:38:55.480
<v Speaker 6>you know, we just sort of meshed it together. But

0:38:55.560 --> 0:38:57.920
<v Speaker 6>then to show you how this sort of relationship with

0:38:58.120 --> 0:39:02.520
<v Speaker 6>Chad and Nadia, our spouses, had evolved, this was just

0:39:02.560 --> 0:39:05.560
<v Speaker 6>gonna be Nicky my book. And then, you know, because

0:39:05.600 --> 0:39:07.160
<v Speaker 6>it took so long, and NICKI, you know, I had

0:39:07.160 --> 0:39:08.759
<v Speaker 6>to go fishing for the book up my butt so

0:39:08.840 --> 0:39:13.520
<v Speaker 6>many times that the relationship had evolved so much that

0:39:13.719 --> 0:39:16.879
<v Speaker 6>we were like, wait a second, this happy divorce has

0:39:16.920 --> 0:39:19.759
<v Speaker 6>to include Naughty and Chad, So we had them right.

0:39:19.760 --> 0:39:20.560
<v Speaker 8>Chapters in the book.

0:39:20.880 --> 0:39:21.200
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

0:39:21.760 --> 0:39:24.840
<v Speaker 6>And then our son and then our son had written

0:39:24.840 --> 0:39:29.320
<v Speaker 6>an essay to get as high school acceptance or the

0:39:29.600 --> 0:39:34.240
<v Speaker 6>essay was about somebody he admired and he wrote about

0:39:34.280 --> 0:39:34.840
<v Speaker 6>his mom.

0:39:34.680 --> 0:39:36.239
<v Speaker 8>And dad about what they've accomplished.

0:39:37.320 --> 0:39:39.799
<v Speaker 6>And we didn't, you know, handcuff him and you know,

0:39:39.840 --> 0:39:41.759
<v Speaker 6>to the bed, make them and make him right.

0:39:41.840 --> 0:39:43.320
<v Speaker 8>It actually did out of his own position.

0:39:43.680 --> 0:39:46.520
<v Speaker 6>So that essay and a chapter is in the end

0:39:46.560 --> 0:39:48.920
<v Speaker 6>of the book and sort of puts a bow on

0:39:48.960 --> 0:39:49.480
<v Speaker 6>the whole thing.

0:39:49.640 --> 0:39:53.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's amazing. What have you guys take since you're

0:39:53.719 --> 0:39:56.040
<v Speaker 1>both remarried, what have you guys taken into your new

0:39:56.040 --> 0:39:58.600
<v Speaker 1>marriages that you learned from being together.

0:40:00.120 --> 0:40:04.040
<v Speaker 6>Well, I married the right person that I get, no question,

0:40:04.520 --> 0:40:07.280
<v Speaker 6>no questions like you asked if it was the right decision.

0:40:07.360 --> 0:40:11.359
<v Speaker 6>Like I look at Nicki and Chad, and Nicki never

0:40:11.480 --> 0:40:14.320
<v Speaker 6>looked at me like she looks at Chad. She never

0:40:14.480 --> 0:40:17.480
<v Speaker 6>held I mean, but the same thing's probably true with

0:40:17.560 --> 0:40:20.120
<v Speaker 6>Naughty and I mean, it just was like Nicki and

0:40:20.239 --> 0:40:22.840
<v Speaker 6>Chad are meant to be together. Nadia and I meant together,

0:40:23.200 --> 0:40:26.160
<v Speaker 6>And now I can see it without any anger, without

0:40:26.160 --> 0:40:28.359
<v Speaker 6>any resentment, but nothing but love, you know, I mean

0:40:28.400 --> 0:40:31.359
<v Speaker 6>nothing but love for her and for Chad, because you know,

0:40:31.640 --> 0:40:33.120
<v Speaker 6>all I got to do is, you know, be honest

0:40:33.120 --> 0:40:37.200
<v Speaker 6>with myself and swallow my ego and say, look, she never.

0:40:37.000 --> 0:40:37.719
<v Speaker 8>Looked at me like that.

0:40:39.400 --> 0:40:40.239
<v Speaker 3>I love that.

0:40:40.640 --> 0:40:43.360
<v Speaker 1>Well, we respect the hell out of you guys, because

0:40:44.080 --> 0:40:46.520
<v Speaker 1>dealing with such a topic that fifty percent of marriages

0:40:46.560 --> 0:40:48.759
<v Speaker 1>deal with. I mean, I hope everyone goes to our

0:40:48.800 --> 0:40:51.480
<v Speaker 1>Happy Divorce dot Com and does their research on how

0:40:51.520 --> 0:40:54.719
<v Speaker 1>to be an adult through this process, because yeah, this

0:40:54.840 --> 0:40:58.040
<v Speaker 1>is amazing. So thank you guys, Ben and Nikki so

0:40:58.160 --> 0:40:59.480
<v Speaker 1>much for being on the show with us.

0:40:59.680 --> 0:41:00.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah it's really enlightening.

0:41:00.880 --> 0:41:03.040
<v Speaker 1>So don't forget to get their book, Our Happy divorce

0:41:03.120 --> 0:41:05.440
<v Speaker 1>and you can get that at our happydivorce dot com.

0:41:05.719 --> 0:41:06.719
<v Speaker 8>Thank you very much.

0:41:06.920 --> 0:41:08.840
<v Speaker 1>Thank you guys so much.

0:41:09.080 --> 0:41:25.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay, thanks all right? Mark got an emails, BIB we do.

0:41:26.040 --> 0:41:29.080
<v Speaker 4>Indeed, this is an anonymous emailer. My boyfriend and I've

0:41:29.120 --> 0:41:31.240
<v Speaker 4>been dating for four years. I'm twenty eight, he's almost

0:41:31.280 --> 0:41:34.080
<v Speaker 4>thirty four. After three years of dating, I expressed I

0:41:34.080 --> 0:41:36.480
<v Speaker 4>would like to get engaged. He was very adamant. He

0:41:36.520 --> 0:41:38.360
<v Speaker 4>wanted to live together first, so last the summer we

0:41:38.440 --> 0:41:41.000
<v Speaker 4>moved in together. We decided to resign the lease in

0:41:41.080 --> 0:41:43.040
<v Speaker 4>June and I said, how about a six month lease.

0:41:43.080 --> 0:41:44.719
<v Speaker 4>Is that enough time to decide if this is going

0:41:44.800 --> 0:41:47.120
<v Speaker 4>to work, because I don't want to resign if, you know,

0:41:47.560 --> 0:41:51.640
<v Speaker 4>not engaged. June came and went, we're still not engaged.

0:41:52.080 --> 0:41:54.239
<v Speaker 4>I expressed how this made me feel and said maybe

0:41:54.239 --> 0:41:55.960
<v Speaker 4>we need to go our separate ways. He said no, no, no, no,

0:41:55.960 --> 0:41:57.840
<v Speaker 4>no no, We'll be engaged by the end of summer.

0:41:58.680 --> 0:42:01.640
<v Speaker 4>No ring shopping, no nothing thing. End of August not engaged.

0:42:02.520 --> 0:42:04.319
<v Speaker 4>I've sat to resent him. It's really taking a toll

0:42:04.360 --> 0:42:06.840
<v Speaker 4>on a relationship. It's now mid September as I write this,

0:42:06.880 --> 0:42:08.719
<v Speaker 4>and I once again brought up the fact that maybe

0:42:08.760 --> 0:42:10.400
<v Speaker 4>we aren't meant to be. He says, no, no, no, no, no no,

0:42:10.520 --> 0:42:13.400
<v Speaker 4>We'll be engaged by your birthday, my birthdays in October.

0:42:13.719 --> 0:42:15.600
<v Speaker 5>How am I supposed to believe him? We haven't done

0:42:15.600 --> 0:42:17.120
<v Speaker 5>any shopping, no discussing.

0:42:17.200 --> 0:42:19.719
<v Speaker 4>I'm really struggling if this is meant to be or

0:42:19.719 --> 0:42:21.560
<v Speaker 4>if he's just playing with my feelings and calling my

0:42:21.600 --> 0:42:23.799
<v Speaker 4>bluff because I've given in the past two times by

0:42:23.800 --> 0:42:26.839
<v Speaker 4>staying together. I'm really struggling. I'm thinking of ending things.

0:42:26.880 --> 0:42:28.520
<v Speaker 4>I'd love to know all of your thoughts.

0:42:29.040 --> 0:42:31.120
<v Speaker 3>This reminds me of Sarah. How old is she again?

0:42:31.320 --> 0:42:31.879
<v Speaker 1>Twenty eight?

0:42:33.840 --> 0:42:34.600
<v Speaker 3>I think?

0:42:35.040 --> 0:42:36.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean it kind of reminds me of the Sarah

0:42:37.000 --> 0:42:43.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, Sarah Gwetski Gwski situation. My fear, though, is

0:42:43.160 --> 0:42:46.080
<v Speaker 2>that he is He's just trying to find the right time,

0:42:46.320 --> 0:42:48.200
<v Speaker 2>and then you don't want to you don't want to

0:42:48.200 --> 0:42:50.200
<v Speaker 2>blow it either. I mean, it's quarantine. It's kind of

0:42:50.200 --> 0:42:53.439
<v Speaker 2>been hard to go ring shopping. It's kind of hard

0:42:53.440 --> 0:42:55.240
<v Speaker 2>to do things. It's kind of hard to plan something

0:42:55.280 --> 0:42:56.560
<v Speaker 2>amazing for you.

0:42:57.000 --> 0:42:57.640
<v Speaker 1>Excuses.

0:42:58.760 --> 0:43:02.160
<v Speaker 2>I mean, maybe, but I see it more. I almost

0:43:02.160 --> 0:43:06.600
<v Speaker 2>see it more as give it, give it another six

0:43:06.680 --> 0:43:09.120
<v Speaker 2>months and just let it. I know I'm saying this

0:43:09.160 --> 0:43:11.320
<v Speaker 2>like I'm the biggest hypocrite in the world. But you

0:43:11.360 --> 0:43:12.840
<v Speaker 2>don't want to blow with something. You don't want to

0:43:12.840 --> 0:43:15.120
<v Speaker 2>blow a surprise like you don't want to you don't

0:43:15.160 --> 0:43:18.919
<v Speaker 2>wanna like, just enjoy you're twenty eight. Give it six

0:43:18.960 --> 0:43:21.759
<v Speaker 2>more months, that's my and then be like, hey, look

0:43:21.960 --> 0:43:25.200
<v Speaker 2>like I'm I'm getting frustrated and I need some time

0:43:25.280 --> 0:43:25.680
<v Speaker 2>to think.

0:43:25.960 --> 0:43:27.520
<v Speaker 1>She's going to be twenty nine this month.

0:43:28.560 --> 0:43:34.600
<v Speaker 2>She's fine. I was thirty and single. She's fine. She

0:43:34.600 --> 0:43:36.440
<v Speaker 2>can wait six more months. That's just my advice.

0:43:36.520 --> 0:43:37.080
<v Speaker 3>Don't blow it.

0:43:37.400 --> 0:43:39.920
<v Speaker 2>Don't because if he's the one, But then again, if

0:43:39.920 --> 0:43:42.160
<v Speaker 2>you're so easy to leave, maybe then he's not the

0:43:42.239 --> 0:43:42.759
<v Speaker 2>right one.

0:43:43.200 --> 0:43:45.120
<v Speaker 1>I don't think she's easy to leave, Otherwise she would

0:43:45.120 --> 0:43:46.960
<v Speaker 1>have left. I think she's just trying to force his

0:43:47.040 --> 0:43:51.759
<v Speaker 1>hand and he's calling her bluff. So she just has

0:43:51.800 --> 0:43:57.400
<v Speaker 1>to be prepared. She anonymous. You have to come to

0:43:57.520 --> 0:44:02.040
<v Speaker 1>terms with your timeline, whether it's by the end of

0:44:02.040 --> 0:44:05.520
<v Speaker 1>this year, six months from now, twelve months from now,

0:44:06.080 --> 0:44:10.920
<v Speaker 1>whatever it is, and that you can realistically see yourself

0:44:11.680 --> 0:44:16.880
<v Speaker 1>leaving if it doesn't happen by then, And so maybe

0:44:16.920 --> 0:44:21.160
<v Speaker 1>give him to another six months. Say Look, no, I've

0:44:21.160 --> 0:44:23.919
<v Speaker 1>said this a lot. I am leaving because I got

0:44:23.920 --> 0:44:25.200
<v Speaker 1>to move on with my life. I'm twenty I'll be

0:44:25.239 --> 0:44:32.920
<v Speaker 1>twenty nine. He's thirty four. They've been together for four years.

0:44:33.320 --> 0:44:36.000
<v Speaker 2>Sarah and Ty were together for like seven years.

0:44:36.080 --> 0:44:38.120
<v Speaker 1>Right, they also started dating at like twenty two.

0:44:39.800 --> 0:44:42.000
<v Speaker 3>It's seven years.

0:44:42.440 --> 0:44:44.680
<v Speaker 2>Look, and but I will say what Sarah did is

0:44:44.719 --> 0:44:47.279
<v Speaker 2>she basically was like, I'm not going on the hockey.

0:44:47.480 --> 0:44:49.040
<v Speaker 2>So you have just to start saying like, I'm not

0:44:49.080 --> 0:44:49.880
<v Speaker 2>doing this right.

0:44:50.000 --> 0:44:52.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, That's what I'm saying. She just has to figure

0:44:52.600 --> 0:44:55.800
<v Speaker 1>out what that time is and go from there.

0:44:55.960 --> 0:44:57.600
<v Speaker 3>Okay, what's next, Christina.

0:44:57.719 --> 0:44:59.640
<v Speaker 4>My husband recently admitted to me that he's at a

0:44:59.640 --> 0:45:02.279
<v Speaker 4>sexual attraction to another woman that we know for the

0:45:02.280 --> 0:45:05.719
<v Speaker 4>past six years. He told me he's never acted upon it,

0:45:05.800 --> 0:45:07.880
<v Speaker 4>and I do believe him. He's been brutally honest with

0:45:07.880 --> 0:45:10.239
<v Speaker 4>me and very communicative. He told me he loves me

0:45:10.280 --> 0:45:12.560
<v Speaker 4>so much that he feels satisfied with our relationship, but

0:45:12.560 --> 0:45:14.240
<v Speaker 4>still has an attraction to this person.

0:45:14.840 --> 0:45:16.680
<v Speaker 5>We plan on entering therapy together.

0:45:16.440 --> 0:45:18.239
<v Speaker 4>But I guess I feel like I don't know how

0:45:18.239 --> 0:45:20.880
<v Speaker 4>to move forward from here. If it's been this long

0:45:21.840 --> 0:45:24.600
<v Speaker 4>six years. It's clearly not going to go away. So

0:45:24.600 --> 0:45:27.000
<v Speaker 4>how can I ever feel confident? How can I ever

0:45:27.040 --> 0:45:30.560
<v Speaker 4>stop wondering if he's thinking about her when we're intimate together.

0:45:31.000 --> 0:45:32.879
<v Speaker 4>I appreciate any advice of both of you and how

0:45:32.880 --> 0:45:35.799
<v Speaker 4>you battle those insecurities and feeling like you're enough for

0:45:35.880 --> 0:45:36.480
<v Speaker 4>your spouse.

0:45:38.040 --> 0:45:39.000
<v Speaker 3>That's tough.

0:45:40.080 --> 0:45:43.400
<v Speaker 2>I don't like that might just be too honest for me.

0:45:44.560 --> 0:45:47.359
<v Speaker 2>Is there such a thing I think there is? That's

0:45:47.840 --> 0:45:49.640
<v Speaker 2>a little I don't want to know. It's a little

0:45:49.680 --> 0:45:51.400
<v Speaker 2>too honest for me, Like if I told you I'm like,

0:45:51.920 --> 0:45:57.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm really attracted to my whatever it.

0:45:57.160 --> 0:45:59.239
<v Speaker 5>Is, someone you both know for a long time.

0:45:59.320 --> 0:46:01.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's like.

0:46:03.160 --> 0:46:05.640
<v Speaker 2>I just don't think that. But then again, that's being honest.

0:46:05.760 --> 0:46:09.319
<v Speaker 2>But then that's kind of too honest. How can I

0:46:09.320 --> 0:46:12.120
<v Speaker 2>be such a hypocrite with saying it's too honest? I

0:46:12.120 --> 0:46:13.319
<v Speaker 2>feel like that's so hypocritical.

0:46:13.480 --> 0:46:18.160
<v Speaker 1>I don't think it's hypocritical. It's like it's kind of like,

0:46:18.200 --> 0:46:21.239
<v Speaker 1>do I look fat in the stress? You know what

0:46:21.280 --> 0:46:21.600
<v Speaker 1>I mean?

0:46:23.480 --> 0:46:26.200
<v Speaker 2>But also maybe it's his way of saying I need

0:46:26.239 --> 0:46:29.279
<v Speaker 2>to say something or I might be tempted to cheat, Or.

0:46:30.440 --> 0:46:33.120
<v Speaker 1>Is it his way of fishing to see if she'll

0:46:33.400 --> 0:46:34.040
<v Speaker 1>have a threesome.

0:46:35.200 --> 0:46:36.759
<v Speaker 3>Oh of course that's where you go.

0:46:37.320 --> 0:46:40.960
<v Speaker 1>No more, No, I'm just saying it started coming to me.

0:46:41.000 --> 0:46:43.879
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, if he's that brutally honest, does he I'm

0:46:43.880 --> 0:46:46.719
<v Speaker 1>just saying, does he have some other agenda?

0:46:47.080 --> 0:46:48.719
<v Speaker 2>I mean maybe I would.

0:46:48.520 --> 0:46:51.600
<v Speaker 1>Have to know more about about both of both of them.

0:46:51.840 --> 0:46:53.640
<v Speaker 1>I need to know more of their history. I need

0:46:53.640 --> 0:46:56.640
<v Speaker 1>to know his history. I need to talk to the guy.

0:46:56.840 --> 0:46:57.799
<v Speaker 1>Then I could figure it out.

0:46:59.440 --> 0:46:59.680
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:46:59.760 --> 0:47:04.480
<v Speaker 2>It's I've known like a guy that's just like very

0:47:04.520 --> 0:47:06.520
<v Speaker 2>honest and says like, all this girl's hot in front

0:47:06.560 --> 0:47:10.799
<v Speaker 2>of you know, his wife, and but it still just

0:47:10.840 --> 0:47:15.440
<v Speaker 2>feels a little too much. But if it's fine with

0:47:15.480 --> 0:47:20.480
<v Speaker 2>your partner, but obviously it's not fine for her, that's uncomfortable.

0:47:20.560 --> 0:47:23.600
<v Speaker 1>Well saying someone because Okay, you and I have had

0:47:23.600 --> 0:47:27.799
<v Speaker 1>this discussion, you know, over the years, and we you

0:47:27.920 --> 0:47:31.160
<v Speaker 1>understand that there's beautiful people exist in this world, right

0:47:32.120 --> 0:47:36.680
<v Speaker 1>like it is what it is acknowledging someone like if

0:47:36.680 --> 0:47:38.680
<v Speaker 1>you say, oh, yeah, she's pretty, like what we're watching

0:47:38.680 --> 0:47:40.719
<v Speaker 1>a show or whatever. It's like, yeah, she's a pretty girl.

0:47:40.760 --> 0:47:46.840
<v Speaker 1>She yeah, whatever. But saying that there's sexual attraction.

0:47:47.800 --> 0:47:51.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's basically saying I want to them is very different.

0:47:53.640 --> 0:47:55.200
<v Speaker 1>And how would you feel comfortable?

0:47:55.400 --> 0:48:00.840
<v Speaker 2>Like and I don't even say that someone's attractive like

0:48:00.880 --> 0:48:03.520
<v Speaker 2>that one time when that guy came with the lost dog,

0:48:04.360 --> 0:48:08.520
<v Speaker 2>like I I got caught in that.

0:48:08.600 --> 0:48:12.760
<v Speaker 1>But when Janna really thinks someone's attractive, she can't speak.

0:48:14.640 --> 0:48:16.040
<v Speaker 1>This was a handsome guy.

0:48:17.680 --> 0:48:19.560
<v Speaker 3>I mean, if you want to say it, that's fine.

0:48:21.400 --> 0:48:24.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean I caught you and who was it, Sarah? Yeah,

0:48:24.960 --> 0:48:27.120
<v Speaker 1>Sarah's just swooning over this guy.

0:48:27.280 --> 0:48:27.760
<v Speaker 3>Not swooning.

0:48:27.800 --> 0:48:29.160
<v Speaker 2>He was looking for a lost dog and we were

0:48:29.200 --> 0:48:29.799
<v Speaker 2>just helping him.

0:48:30.000 --> 0:48:33.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, swooning. But she says, you know, she asked,

0:48:33.120 --> 0:48:34.920
<v Speaker 1>how can I ever feel confident? How can I ever

0:48:34.960 --> 0:48:37.560
<v Speaker 1>stop wondering if he's thinking about her when we're intimate together?

0:48:38.680 --> 0:48:42.239
<v Speaker 1>If you the confidence is just well, if he told

0:48:42.320 --> 0:48:44.960
<v Speaker 1>me that he's thinking about it, like he like you said,

0:48:45.040 --> 0:48:47.759
<v Speaker 1>like he's the king of honesty, He'll tell you like

0:48:47.920 --> 0:48:49.719
<v Speaker 1>you know what I mean, like, yeah, you don't have

0:48:49.760 --> 0:48:53.280
<v Speaker 1>to wonder because he's he's gonna tell you clearly that's true. Yeah,

0:48:53.320 --> 0:48:57.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, now, the thing about wondering if he's thinking

0:48:57.320 --> 0:49:00.759
<v Speaker 1>of her while there intimate together that. I think that's

0:49:00.840 --> 0:49:03.799
<v Speaker 1>just something that you just kind of remind yourself to

0:49:03.840 --> 0:49:07.600
<v Speaker 1>be in the present in and not let your head

0:49:07.640 --> 0:49:08.000
<v Speaker 1>go there.

0:49:09.040 --> 0:49:11.720
<v Speaker 5>Who knows what any of us are thinking in those moments.

0:49:11.920 --> 0:49:18.319
<v Speaker 2>Right, It's Mike's probably thinking about Marvel movies. I'm probably

0:49:18.400 --> 0:49:23.480
<v Speaker 2>Captain America. What's what's the girl's name? I mean Captain Marvel.

0:49:24.120 --> 0:49:26.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm Captain Marvel girl probably with him?

0:49:27.080 --> 0:49:29.400
<v Speaker 3>Great? All right, well not no, ladies and gentlemen.

0:49:30.120 --> 0:49:31.560
<v Speaker 1>It's that's a wrap.

0:49:31.640 --> 0:49:34.920
<v Speaker 3>That's wrap. Love you guys, See you next week later