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Speaker 1: Find Down with Janey Kramer and Michael Coffman an I'm

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Speaker 1: her radio podcast. You know, we had to get Mark,

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Speaker 1: our producer, to make sure he was on today because

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Speaker 1: we got the juice today.

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Speaker 2: Well it's I mean, I yeah, it's like unfortunate, unfortunate,

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Speaker 2: but what unfortunately comes with the unfortunate unfortunately of the

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Speaker 2: territory with.

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Speaker 1: The unfortunate truth of the unfortunate past?

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm. Mark is like, right now.

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Speaker 4: I'm so intrigued right now because both have kind of

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Speaker 4: smiles on your face and maybe this isn't so serious, but.

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Speaker 3: Then it.

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Speaker 5: Seems I'm getting a serious vibe.

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Speaker 3: I was, I was.

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Speaker 2: Hyperventilatingly bawling, hyper a lot of Ellie's I'm adding into this. No,

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Speaker 2: I was, I was bawling last night. And actually Mike

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Speaker 2: about five minutes before we started this goes, you know,

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Speaker 2: we've learned our lesson sharing things that are not healed,

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Speaker 2: and you know, if we don't want to talk about it,

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Speaker 2: we don't have to. And I was like, no, I'm like,

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Speaker 2: it's it is what it is. It's just it's unfortunate.

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Speaker 2: So do you want mean to start go for it?

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Speaker 2: So on a few days ago, I got a DM

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Speaker 2: saying that Mike cheated, and the reason why it caught

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Speaker 2: me off guard was because the very first time I

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Speaker 2: found out Mike cheated on me was through a DM. Sure,

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Speaker 2: so automatically I'm in freak out mode because I think

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Speaker 2: and I told my therapist that I to sout with

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Speaker 2: her the other day, and you know, I told her,

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Speaker 2: I was like, I almost have this weird PTSD where

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Speaker 2: I I go through my dms almost looking to see

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Speaker 2: if I'm if the truth is going to prevail in

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Speaker 2: a DM again, Like I have this like fear when

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Speaker 2: I go through my dms, but then I also have this, well,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to miss it, like if this is

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Speaker 2: my the sign or that it shows me again that

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Speaker 2: he cheated. So it's just said Mike cheated again. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 2: And I looked at the person's profile had zero followers, zero,

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Speaker 2: so it's like they just made this, like they just

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Speaker 2: made this account, so I reached out, which could go

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Speaker 2: either way.

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Speaker 4: That could be, oh, it's just a crazy person, or

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Speaker 4: this could be legit. It kind of shows on both sides.

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Speaker 2: Of the coin exactly, And so that's where I was

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Speaker 2: kind of like stuck, and I called my friend Sarah,

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Speaker 2: who was there from me from like from D Day,

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Speaker 2: Like she's the one who told me to like look

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Speaker 2: into Mike cheating. And I center this and I was like,

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Speaker 2: what do I do? Because you know, we just got

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Speaker 2: freaking our book out in New York Times Bestsellers. And

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Speaker 2: I'm like, is this it's like you just said, it's

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Speaker 2: either someone is trying to mess with me and pop

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Speaker 2: this bubble and get in my head, or it's true.

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Speaker 2: And I said, and this the really sh sucky thing

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Speaker 2: about it is that my default can't go to there's

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Speaker 2: no way, Like That's where I told Mike last night,

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Speaker 2: like that's where it like hurts the most, where I

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Speaker 2: can't just go I trust him a thousand percent he

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Speaker 2: would never do that. And I think that's where that's

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Speaker 2: where it's stung. And that's where I'm like, am I

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Speaker 2: really going to start having this DM conversation with this

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Speaker 2: girl or whoever it was?

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Speaker 3: And I did.

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Speaker 2: I can, so I started dming this person and again,

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Speaker 2: and I'm just like, you know, they're telling me things

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Speaker 2: that maybe could make sense or it maybe could be wrong,

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Speaker 2: you know, and I don't know. You know, she's said

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Speaker 2: a few things about his hometown. I'm like, okay, well

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Speaker 2: they can just look that up on inner the Internet.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: She said something about he's got a secret device, which

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Speaker 2: has always been a fear of mine, that maybe he

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Speaker 2: has some secret device that he talks to other people on.

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Speaker 5: Yea.

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Speaker 2: So she's telling me all these things. I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 2: well that could be valid, or that could be coret,

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Speaker 2: you know. And I'm like, am I talking to just

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Speaker 2: some sad person and wherever that's just trying to make

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Speaker 2: me upset? Or is there some truth to this? And

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Speaker 2: so I sat with it for a few days before

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Speaker 2: bringing it to Mike because.

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Speaker 1: The thing is too though. This person is saying isn't

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Speaker 1: even speaking on their behalf. They're speaking on their friend's behalf.

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Speaker 1: They're saying that their friend is the one that I'm

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Speaker 1: cheating with or whatever. This person isn't even like saying

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Speaker 1: that they're the person.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and she's like she, you know, she's going to

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Speaker 2: be so upset with me. I just feel like you

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Speaker 2: need to know. And you know, her and Mike talk

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Speaker 2: all the time, and they think they're going to be together,

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Speaker 2: and you know, they have unprotected sex, and Mike just

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Speaker 2: says that you are, that he's just living in this

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Speaker 2: world of control that you've created and he's trying to

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Speaker 2: get out and all these things. I'm like, well, maybe

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Speaker 2: that's how he truly feels. And I'm like, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: and I just I'm so I just start to kind

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Speaker 2: of unravel. But I start to just be like, well,

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Speaker 2: show me the proof, because here's the deal at the

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Speaker 2: end of the day. And I've told this to Mike.

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Speaker 2: You got proof, show it to me, you know, And

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Speaker 2: I can't be an idiot and to not say, Okay, fine,

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Speaker 2: let's see the proof. Prove me wrong, prove you know,

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Speaker 2: prove the lie wrong. And you know, she kept saying, well,

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Speaker 2: she won't let me or she'll get so mad. She's

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Speaker 2: upset with me that I'm even saying anything to you,

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Speaker 2: but good luck. Just know that, like you're not going

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Speaker 2: to find the secret device. And I'm just like, so

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Speaker 2: what do I do? And this is another thing I

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Speaker 2: told them. I was like bawling last night. I was like,

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Speaker 2: I searched the freakin' house.

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Speaker 3: Oh you know, I'm like.

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Speaker 2: For like not like the entire but I'm like looking,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, what am I doing? Like this is like

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Speaker 2: She's like, I'm going crazy, And so I went to

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Speaker 2: my therapy office or whatever and sat down with her

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Speaker 2: to talk about it before I talked to Mike about it.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, I don't want to be looking under

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Speaker 2: the bed or going in his drawers trying to find

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Speaker 2: the secret device that this who knows if it's even real.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, how do I deal with this? And

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Speaker 2: you know, because I'm like, we're coming off a high

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Speaker 2: and now this, but I can't ignore it completely, you know,

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Speaker 2: because of our history, and I can't really one thousand percent,

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Speaker 2: like there's not enough stuff in the bank to trust

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Speaker 2: his word one thousand percent because of this stuff with

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Speaker 2: last year, and that sucks. And I'm like, so I'm

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Speaker 2: just kind of like stuck, and you know, he's he

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Speaker 2: noticed it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I you know, I noticed something was up with

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Speaker 1: with Jana the last couple of days, and I, you know,

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Speaker 1: I was prying the other day more and more. He

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Speaker 1: kept saying, nothing's wrong, nothing's wrong, and I just I know,

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Speaker 1: I know you just like you know me, like we

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Speaker 1: know each other. And so finally Jana was just kind

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Speaker 1: of like, well, you know, I need to I need

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Speaker 1: to process this with my therapist and I need to

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Speaker 1: find out some more information and figure all this out.

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Speaker 1: And so I had to, you know, and I respect

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Speaker 1: and appreciate and I affirmed Jana last night for doing

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Speaker 1: the work around this that she's done and handling the

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Speaker 1: way she has because she would have been so easy

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Speaker 1: for her as soon as she got this to come,

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Speaker 1: mf me and.

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Speaker 2: Oh, in the past, I've grabbed his phone and thrown

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Speaker 2: it across the room and shattered.

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Speaker 1: It, right, So it was you know, So I was like,

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Speaker 1: all right, she's doing her work. I can't use that

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Speaker 1: against right now. I can't get frustrated because she's not

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Speaker 1: talking to me. So I was like, Okay, I have

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Speaker 1: to do my work now and not be codependent and

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Speaker 1: try to take on her feelings. So I was like, okay,

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Speaker 1: and how to just walk away and sit with it?

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Speaker 1: And you know, once she finally told me last night, man,

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Speaker 1: it like it it crushed me because it sucked, like

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Speaker 1: I feel the same as her, where I'm like, it

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Speaker 1: sucks that she can't default to trusting me. It sucks

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Speaker 1: that I've done what I've done in the past to

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Speaker 1: create that in a relationship. Right now, my hope is

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Speaker 1: that years down the line, you know, if something like

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Speaker 1: this happened again, she'd be able to bring it to

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Speaker 1: me and we would almost be able to like laugh

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Speaker 1: about it, you know, because there is that much trust

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Speaker 1: in the bank. But you know, I didn't fault her

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Speaker 1: at all for questioning me, for still trying to figure

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Speaker 1: these things out, you know. And then when she told

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Speaker 1: me she searched the house, it's just like my heart

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Speaker 1: just sank because you know, I just felt so bad,

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Speaker 1: like so bad for my wife, like to have to

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Speaker 1: that you have to feel these things, and that it's

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Speaker 1: a direct correlation to the things I've done in the past,

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Speaker 1: you know, And it's which it sucks, man. It's just

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Speaker 1: people like this, you know. I know, Jana's still kind

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Speaker 1: of wrapping her head around this and trying to still

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Speaker 1: gather information even though this person person and deleted that account.

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Speaker 1: And when you tried to.

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Speaker 2: Because Mike basically said like, let's ask for her number,

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Speaker 2: let's call her, and yeah, and they they deleted the

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Speaker 2: their account, and I you know, and I also like

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Speaker 2: sent like a thing saying like, well, I'll send the

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Speaker 2: lawyers after you this defamation and you know, or whatever

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Speaker 2: we could figure out because and I think the therapist

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Speaker 2: said too. She's like, unfortunately, this isn't going to be

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Speaker 2: the last time this comes up. It wasn't the first,

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Speaker 2: and that's not going to be the last, especially because

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Speaker 2: we have put our relationship out there. And here's the deal.

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Speaker 2: You know, when you go on those tabloid sites, they're like,

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Speaker 2: she hasn't he's gonna cheat again. That's different than when

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Speaker 2: someone says he's cheated on you, he's done it again.

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Speaker 2: He is, yeah, And it's like that makes me kind

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Speaker 2: of stop more in my tracks and to be like,

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Speaker 2: if you have the proof, just give it to me,

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Speaker 2: but don't, don't don't come on my page. And and

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Speaker 2: that's just.

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Speaker 3: That's just wrong.

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Speaker 2: So whoever you are or that's it's just wrong and

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Speaker 2: it's mean and it's calculated, and it just feels so ugly.

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Speaker 4: And it's tragic that somebody out there just thought that

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Speaker 4: would be funny, right, or thought there'd be fun And

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Speaker 4: do you think she'll respond like, oh my gosh, she's

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Speaker 4: responding like the the whole mindset of that is just

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Speaker 4: you know, we've talked endlessly about social media right now

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Speaker 4: and what assessed pool of the comments can be and stuff,

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Speaker 4: But really it's really depressing that somebody feels like that

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Speaker 4: would be a good time to try to mess with

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Speaker 4: your relationship, Like that question, why not go to Mike initially?

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Speaker 4: Did you consider before you even responded to this person?

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Speaker 4: Did you consider going to Mic right away?

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Speaker 3: Why I didn't?

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Speaker 2: And I think why he says he hopes that we

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Speaker 2: can get to that place is because usually there is

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Speaker 2: truth to something like that.

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Speaker 4: She was.

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Speaker 1: Scared of me lying yeah, sure, which I totally understood.

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Speaker 2: I don't blame right, I mean I had, you know,

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Speaker 2: the first Instagram girl a million years ago, you know,

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Speaker 2: reached out and I was like, hey, Mike, and I did.

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Speaker 2: I was like, I just got to text a DM

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Speaker 2: saying that some girl you slept with some girl and

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Speaker 2: he's like.

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Speaker 3: What, No, I would never.

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Speaker 2: And then I'm like, in that same breath, I was like,

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Speaker 2: can you show me some proof? And she sent messages

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Speaker 2: and I was like, then what is this?

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Speaker 6: You know?

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Speaker 2: So it's like it's that because you know, and then

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Speaker 2: just last Christmas being like are you on anything?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 3: And he was lying.

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Speaker 2: So it's that's the unfortunate part, and that's where we're

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Speaker 2: going to have to get to I hope that we

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Speaker 2: can get to that place of years down the line

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Speaker 2: where I can I can just go to him and

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Speaker 2: not believe it for a second.

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Speaker 5: Why do you believe him now? Just then?

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Speaker 4: I'm not trying to cause trouble, but because she vanished

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Speaker 4: like that, because she was clearly causing problems.

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Speaker 2: It's not that I I don't think she fully believes

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Speaker 2: me yet I have a hard time believing it, but

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Speaker 2: I also don't. At the same time. What my therapist

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Speaker 2: helped me kind of talk about was that I brought

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Speaker 2: it up. He has now told me his truth. It's

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Speaker 2: now something that I can't It's not on me to

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Speaker 2: be detective or control or it's now in I honestly,

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Speaker 2: it's in God's hands where if there's the truth will

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Speaker 2: show eventually, and that truth may be that it was

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Speaker 2: real or that it wasn't, and over time, hopefully it

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Speaker 2: will be that it wasn't and he'll continue, you know,

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Speaker 2: he'll come to me with things or be honest and

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Speaker 2: continue to be honest, and that way I can be

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Speaker 2: more quick to trusting him. But in the season that

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Speaker 2: we've been in the last five years, unfortunately it's not.

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Speaker 3: There that quick.

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Speaker 2: So do I believe it fully, No do I still

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Speaker 2: have a percentage of doubt a little bit, just because

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Speaker 2: I think that I'm human just have that.

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Speaker 1: Trauma from the past. I mean, this is the first situation.

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Speaker 2: Like this, and I think would also kind of put

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Speaker 2: a cherry on the top. Was the other day I

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Speaker 2: was on my Catherine's going to hear this the first

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Speaker 2: time on here. I was on my manager slash best

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Speaker 2: friend's phone and I was doing an audio recording on

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Speaker 2: her phone and she had like not many audio recordings,

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Speaker 2: and I just saw Mike Discovery day and I was

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Speaker 2: like what And I was like, oh my god, this

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Speaker 2: is we recorded when we confronted Mike, And like an idiot,

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Speaker 2: I listened to it, you know, and just like reliving

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Speaker 2: like all the like. It was just like it was

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Speaker 2: just heavy. But then hearing it be like no, so

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Speaker 2: it's just that didn't help with the emotions.

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Speaker 5: Is there any chance?

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Speaker 4: And I'm always looking at the bright side that this

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Speaker 4: is actually going to eventually be a positive step in

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Speaker 4: the sense that we're going to get past this And

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Speaker 4: then the next time somebody on Instagram does this, it's

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Speaker 4: not going.

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Speaker 5: To trigger you like the last ones did.

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Speaker 4: It's going to trigger the emotions of oh, no, another

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Speaker 4: person's trying to screw up our relationship because look here

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Speaker 4: we are giving a lot of attention to this, this

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Speaker 4: awful person on your podcast. Somebody else might try to

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Speaker 4: do it. Maybe that's going to make you trust Mike

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Speaker 4: Moore and the DMS less because we've gotten past this hurdle.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's the hope. Yeah, that's the hope.

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Speaker 1: Is that I mean for me, I will say it's

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Speaker 1: you know, it's nice to be in the like, it's

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Speaker 1: nice to actually be truthful, you know, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean, Like for someone who's so used to lying

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Speaker 1: and being caught in a lie and being that way

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Speaker 1: so much of my life, especially in relationships and in

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Speaker 1: our marriage, you know, as much pain as I feel

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Speaker 1: and shame around the whole situation and seeing the hurt

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Speaker 1: that Janet is going through and myself feeling the pain

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Speaker 1: because of trauma from the past, the relief is, well,

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Speaker 1: I know the truth. I know my truth, and so

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Speaker 1: it is a relieving feeling, not having that like kicking

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Speaker 1: the gut feeling of like, oh, when's something gonna come

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Speaker 1: out that's gonna prove this right? And you know, what

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Speaker 1: and so that's for me, that's just the relief, but

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Speaker 1: I understand Jana can't have that yet, and so I'm

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Speaker 1: hoping again to reiterate, I'm hoping that this is just

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Speaker 1: a building block of trust, that the truth will show

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Speaker 1: itself in all its form that Jana can accept, and

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Speaker 1: then we move on to the the next time, because

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Speaker 1: like her therapist said, like you said, Mike, this probably

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Speaker 1: won't be the last time. We kind of have a

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Speaker 1: target on our backs. Yeah, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: So I think it's how we and you know what

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Speaker 2: my therapist is like, get a plan in place for

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Speaker 2: when this does happen next time, and you know.

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Speaker 3: Ask for the proof. But also you know.

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Speaker 2: How he handles it too, He's like, let's call it

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Speaker 2: like no, no, I don't want to say like people

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Speaker 2: don't do it because we don't want to call you,

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Speaker 2: but I mean.

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Speaker 1: We wouldn't call you with our numbers, so don't and.

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Speaker 2: We would probably you know, get some lawyers involved. So

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Speaker 2: it's not going to be a fun process.

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Speaker 1: But it's just to say hi. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I just I think it's just one of those

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Speaker 2: things where you know, hopefully I'm always open to the

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Speaker 2: truth and to proof, but I'm not open to bullshit.

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Speaker 4: It's tough because you can't prove a negative. As hard

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Speaker 4: as Mike would like to try and prove it to,

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Speaker 4: you can't prove he didn't do something that's so difficult

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Speaker 4: to establish. Has there been any uh, look at my messages,

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Speaker 4: look at my DMS? Or not even bothering because you

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Speaker 4: think this is a second device anyway, allegedly. Wait, what

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Speaker 4: do you mean, Like I'm saying, is he being overly

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Speaker 4: forthcoming with all of his private things to kind of

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Speaker 4: try to prove the negative?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I might, Yeah, he said, look look through my messages,

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Speaker 4: look through my DMS, like, I assure you nothing's happening.

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Speaker 3: But she said he deletes them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah right, And I was like, let's get the phone bill,

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Speaker 1: let's look at the you know what I mean, like,

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Speaker 1: give us an else on her, give us a number,

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Speaker 1: a separate account.

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Speaker 5: I mean, it's so.

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Speaker 2: Hard to prove, and honestly, that just sounds exhausting.

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Speaker 1: It does sound exhausting.

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Speaker 2: So I just am like, Okay, I gotta I will

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Speaker 2: accept all things that I can control, and everything else

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Speaker 2: will just show its face and the truth will come

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Speaker 2: out one way or the other.

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Speaker 3: But that's that.

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Speaker 5: It's a bump in the road, and I think that's

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Speaker 5: all it's going to be.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I mean, yeah, yeah it was.

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Speaker 1: It was hard, but for sure, And again I know

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Speaker 1: I firmed you last night, but you were so adult

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Speaker 1: around all of this, and I just I commend the

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Speaker 1: hell out of you because that can't be easy, that

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Speaker 1: those triggers and the trauma and all of that, Like

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Speaker 1: anybody would nobody would blame you from going off and

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Speaker 1: shooting from the hip. And so I commend you for

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Speaker 1: the work that you did, and I think for us,

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Speaker 1: the work that we did around the situation and that

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Speaker 1: will continue to do. I think we've handled it individually

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Speaker 1: and together the best we can.

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Speaker 3: So not a bump, it's a win.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So thank you who ever did.

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Speaker 2: No, thank you to whoever did that, because that just

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Speaker 2: showed that I can trust my husband.

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Speaker 1: So thanks, but more so because you're not We're not

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Speaker 1: gonna let you. We're not gonna let you win.

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Speaker 3: No way.

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Speaker 1: Anyways, let's take a break and shake that one off.

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Speaker 1: I love you, love you all right. All right, guys,

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Speaker 1: we're so excited about our guests today because we're on

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Speaker 1: opposite spectrums of them, So there's gonna be a lot

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Speaker 1: of questions.

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Speaker 3: But I mean, yes, but also like they live our dream.

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Speaker 1: I'm just kidding your dream. Oh my god, Stuned, there's

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Speaker 1: a whole other topic we get to talk about.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm right, you guys.

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Speaker 1: We have the amazing divorced couple Ben and Nikki, who

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Speaker 1: are the authors of our Happy Divorce.

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Speaker 2: Hi, guys, I and apparently we just found out that

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Speaker 2: this is Mike's dream, so not my dream.

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Speaker 1: We were just talking, we were just talking about the

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Speaker 1: other day and just hypothetical, We're like, oh, we'd hope

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Speaker 1: we would be friends. Ah, I'm sorry, I'm myself hypothetically.

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Speaker 6: I don't think anybody gets like it has the decision

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Speaker 6: to get divorced and says, okay, how are we going

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Speaker 6: to hate each other for the rest of our lives

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Speaker 6: and live our lives with you know, all this toxic

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Speaker 6: energy forever?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 6: It just people don't deal with the emotional side of

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Speaker 6: the divorce before they deal with the business side, you know.

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Speaker 6: So I don't think anything anybody premeditates. Let's not get

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Speaker 6: along and let's hate each other for the rest of.

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Speaker 1: Our lives, for sure, So give us us and our

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Speaker 1: listeners a little bit of your background. Do you guys

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Speaker 1: have any kids? And how long were you married and

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Speaker 1: when did you get divorced.

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Speaker 7: We were married seven years. We have one child together,

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Speaker 7: So then Ben has two other children that I consider

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Speaker 7: mine now even though I don't have to have I

401
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Speaker 7: don't have to have them twenty four hours a day.

402
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Speaker 7: I get to send them back. We got divorisd what

403
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Speaker 7: when our son was about three and a half.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So does it have anything to do with the

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Speaker 2: seven year itch at all?

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Speaker 3: You think No?

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Speaker 7: I think art started itching about year four.

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Speaker 8: We just started going.

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Speaker 6: I think our itch started before we even got married.

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Speaker 6: And I think, you know, looking back on it, we

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Speaker 6: went through every red light, every stop sign, every blinking

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Speaker 6: railroad track and just plopped through it. And we had

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Speaker 6: in our twenties at the dating in a couple of

414
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Speaker 6: years and it was like time, you know, it's.

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Speaker 8: Time to get married.

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Speaker 6: And we got married, and then we were always trying

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Speaker 6: to fit that square peg in the round hole. Instead

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Speaker 6: of realizing that it doesn't fit, we just kept on

419
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Speaker 6: trying to push it and make it fit. And then

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Speaker 6: we're like, Okay, well maybe we'll have a kid and

421
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Speaker 6: that's will make it fit, of course, and obviously would

422
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Speaker 6: never take that away because it's the best thing that

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Speaker 6: had happened to either of us. But you know, it

424
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 6: was one of those things that once we have our

425
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Speaker 6: kid and we were always our marriage was was always based.

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Speaker 7: On quarantine for two weeks home with his mother.

427
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Speaker 8: There's that, not his dad, thank god.

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Speaker 6: But it's the if onlys our marriage was always the

429
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Speaker 6: if onlies, if only Nikki would do this, if only

430
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Speaker 6: Ben would do this, you know, and not living in

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Speaker 6: the present.

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Speaker 2: What was y'all's conflict when you when you were married, Like,

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Speaker 2: what what eventually led y'all to, you know, to going

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Speaker 2: down the divorce option.

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Speaker 7: I think for us, we got being in love and

436
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,960
Speaker 7: loving each other mixed up and there was like we

437
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 7: never really had any conflict. We were just like best

438
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 7: friends and we were like just sort of like two

439
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,639
Speaker 7: ships passing in the night where we were more like

440
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,120
Speaker 7: you know, pals living together instead of like lovers.

441
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 6: And then I think that, you know, again the square

442
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 6: peg thing is, but instead of realizing that that we

443
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 6: had gotten in love and loving each other confused, we

444
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 6: actually started getting more and more mad that that square

445
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,919
Speaker 6: peg would fit in a round role and more resentful,

446
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:04,199
Speaker 6: and so you know, at the end, it wasn't you know,

447
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,640
Speaker 6: let's get divorced, Let's hug it out, we love each other,

448
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 6: Let's write a book called Our Happy Divorce. You know,

449
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,639
Speaker 6: we had, you know, all the drama that you know,

450
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 6: marriages don't end on winning streaks, right, it's not you know,

451
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 6: people know, hey, you know, we had a fight last night.

452
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,640
Speaker 6: Let's get married. You know it was it was years

453
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 6: of you know, talking about it, me moving out, me

454
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 6: moving back in, and then we made that decision. But

455
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 6: you know, one thing that's important in our story, in

456
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 6: our book is we don't really talk about what happened

457
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,719
Speaker 6: because at the end of the day, the reason we

458
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 6: can sit here and talk about and you know, I

459
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 6: can say how much I love my ex wife and

460
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 6: she's my best friend, is because there's no villain in

461
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:45,680
Speaker 6: our story, right, there's.

462
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:46,640
Speaker 8: No bad guy.

463
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 6: There's It would make a terrible Hollywood movie, right because

464
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 6: there's no We We both have accepted that we had

465
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 6: equal parts in the ending of our marriage and to

466
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,120
Speaker 6: to to make it and it would take to a break.

467
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 2: Are there any regrets at all with you know, not

468
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 2: trying and giving it more? Maybe more therapy or more

469
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 2: not that you I'm sure you guys gave it a

470
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 2: ton of effort.

471
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that y'all did it at all.

472
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, like, is there any you know, sleepless

473
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 2: nights or any regrets? Like, ah, man, I wish I

474
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 2: would have done this or tried this.

475
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 7: I think I think one of the things that you know,

476
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 7: divorce couples don't realize is like we've done I'm going

477
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 7: to pat us on the back. We've done a really

478
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 7: good job of making this as easy and as like

479
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 7: great as we could for our son. But like, even

480
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 7: how when was that trip like three years ago you

481
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 7: took asheron that He looked at you and he said,

482
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 7: you know, Dad, this divorce is really hard. And you

483
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 7: know he was what fourteen, he was probably fourteen, and

484
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 7: you know, Ben at that point wanted to look at

485
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 7: him and go, you know, you're a brat, Like did

486
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 7: you know what we've gone through to make sure that

487
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 7: your life is so like the way it is now?

488
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 7: But I mean that, like that's one of those things

489
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 7: that just kind of like digs at you. Because my

490
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 7: parents are still married, they've been married for fifty two years.

491
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 7: Whether they should still be married or not regardless, but

492
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 7: they're still married. So I never had that. And so

493
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 7: to hear him say, you know, for him to be

494
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 7: able to say something like that, knowing all the work

495
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 7: we put in, and like the relationship that Ben and

496
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 7: I have and the relationship Ben's wife and I have,

497
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 7: and the relationship Ben has with my husband, Like, it

498
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 7: really kills a kid. And I think that's one of

499
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 7: the hardest things for me that I was like, that

500
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 7: was the number one thing I thought, I'm never I

501
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 7: don't ever want to do that to my kid.

502
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 6: But right there is a lot I mean, that is

503
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 6: the one thing I don't think that. I mean, I

504
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 6: think I can honestly wholeheartedly say that Nick and I

505
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 6: tried everything to try to make the square bag fitting

506
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 6: a round hole. And I hate to keep on using that,

507
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 6: but you know, we went to therapy, you know, NICKI

508
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 6: I think she would have tried more. I think that's

509
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 6: fair to say, right because of the ill of this,

510
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 6: she would have stayed together, I think for Asher, which

511
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 6: I think is all the wrong reasons. And I think

512
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 6: his parents, you know, that's a tough decision.

513
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 8: I killed you. So we're good. So literally but but

514
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 8: you know, I think as parents, it's like, at least.

515
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 6: I had to come to the decision what I'd rather

516
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 6: have two parents together who are miserable, who are two

517
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 6: parents who are who are happy? Because what does that teach,

518
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 6: you know, our son about growing up in a loveless, affectionate,

519
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 6: less marriage.

520
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 8: You know, I don't think that's a good example of

521
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 8: his parents.

522
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, Mike and I kind of and

523
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 2: I think to like, you know, I know he joked

524
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 2: in the beginning, but we had kind of talked about that.

525
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 2: Were sometimes like in the very beginning of our situation,

526
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 2: I stayed because of our daughter, and it's like, eventually

527
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 2: it's not healthy, Like you guys said to stay just

528
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 2: for your kid. Now, do we want the kids to

529
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 2: be under one roof? Absolutely, like that's the dream white

530
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 2: picket fence goal. But if it's not healthy for either one.

531
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 2: And sometimes when we do joke about it, I'm like,

532
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 2: you would probably be happy with someone else, you know, maybe,

533
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 2: and you know, I mean, but I'm like, you wouldn't

534
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 2: have these restrictions or these boundaries or whatever, And you

535
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,400
Speaker 2: know I would, I wouldn't be you know, flipping beds

536
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 2: wondered about where's this hidden phone.

537
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 3: I don't know where's the phone.

538
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 2: But you know, at the end of the day, we're

539
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 2: still you know, we're there's that love that's still there,

540
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:35,679
Speaker 2: and that's how we know.

541
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 3: We like that.

542
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 2: We keep fighting for our relationship. But when that love goes,

543
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 2: You're right, it's not it's not healthy for the kids.

544
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 2: And at the end of the day, it's like, that

545
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 2: would have killed me to NICKI if I heard that,

546
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 2: because I'd have been like, you have no idea, Like

547
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 2: this has all been for you, like for the benefit

548
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 2: or for you, and it's like, oh, I can't even imagine.

549
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 2: Like when you said that, I'm like, that must have

550
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 2: just stung so bad.

551
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 6: It's stung in My first reaction was like Nicky said,

552
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 6: it's like you little s o B.

553
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 8: You have no idea because I grew up in a

554
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 8: I grew up.

555
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 6: In a high conflict divorce situation and completely different. But

556
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 6: then you know, then I was able to sit back

557
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 6: and not you know, at least in my older age,

558
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 6: I've tried to not react as much at first, but

559
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 6: think about it, and that's an empathy for him that yes,

560
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:18,959
Speaker 6: it's not his choice.

561
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 8: It would never be his choice.

562
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 6: Even today, he says, you know, we get along, so well,

563
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 6: what's you know, what's the deal.

564
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 8: So, you know, but just the.

565
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 6: Logistics of having two homes, right, the logistics of forgetting

566
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 6: your math book at your mom's and I mean just

567
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 6: that that that in itself is hard. So I was

568
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 6: able to say, you know what, You're right, it is hard,

569
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 6: you know. And we live seven houses down from each other,

570
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 6: so if he forgets his math book, he can just

571
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 6: walk over and get it. But you know, so you know,

572
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 6: we we we've we've tried to make it as as

573
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 6: soft as the landing as possible for him, and I

574
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 6: think we've you know, done a pretty.

575
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 8: Good job at that.

576
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: How is that relationship with because Ben, you're remarried, we're

577
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: both you're both are married, you know, because the only

578
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: people I can think of are like our friends Kyle

579
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: and Sarah and then Kat his X where it's like

580
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: those we have these one friends that they're the only

581
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: ones I've seen that really get along as well as

582
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: I've ever seen a you know, a split family per

583
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: se get along with new wives, ex wives, you know,

584
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: old children, current children, and so it seems like you

585
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: guys have been able to do that.

586
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 3: How it looks nice? And sometimes I'm like, man, that

587
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 3: just looks yeah, it's like.

588
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: Oh, I just get you as a friend, and yeah,

589
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: it's easy just to be a friend. Sometimes, How did

590
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: you guys explain like the work behind that, because I'm

591
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: sure you didn't. Just like, Okay, everyone's great in friends.

592
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 1: So no it.

593
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 6: You know, we we use the term we faked it

594
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 6: till we made it, and that is, you know, as

595
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 6: honest as we can get it.

596
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 8: You know, Nikki started dating Chad or husband.

597
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 6: Now we were I knew Chad he was, you know,

598
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 6: around when we were married, and and you know that

599
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 6: is a shot to the ego in itself, much less

600
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 6: having another man around my son is a shot.

601
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 8: To the ego.

602
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 6: But you know, I this just is this one thing

603
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 6: that I always remember. I was coaching Asher's baseball and

604
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 6: Nicki and Chad.

605
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 8: It was the first time that I really was had

606
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 8: seen him around. I knew they were dating.

607
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 6: But you know, after the game, Asher ran over and

608
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 6: gave Nicki and Chad a hug, and I remember like

609
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 6: walking over there going, Okay, what's best fresh, what's best fresh?

610
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 6: What's best fresh?

611
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 8: Meanwhile, you know you know. I mean, guys like egos

612
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 8: just much less. I know this guy.

613
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 6: Now my son's running over to him, meeting him, and

614
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 6: it's like and then I just put on my my

615
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 6: big boy pants, you know, and I put on a

616
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 6: fake smile. It probably was the most awkward while in

617
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 6: the history of the world.

618
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 8: But I went over.

619
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 6: The first thing I did was give Chad a hug,

620
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 6: and I gave Nicki a kiss, and I just made it.

621
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 8: As normal as possible fresh.

622
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 6: You know. And then you know, the next time it

623
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 6: was a little easier. The next time it's the but look,

624
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 6: it's still not easy today. This is fourteen years later.

625
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 8: I love Chad, you.

626
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 6: Know, and you know, they went down fishing in the

627
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 6: Keys early in summer and Asher came.

628
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 8: He goes, oh, Chad and I are going fishing. My

629
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 8: first reaction still is like, oh, you know, it's like

630
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 8: a little gut punch, you know.

631
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 6: Fourteen years later, we wrote a freaking book called Our

632
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 6: Happy Divorce.

633
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 2: But it's still not matter, which, by the way, you

634
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 2: can get at our happydivorce dot com. There's support, you

635
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 2: can resources, blogs, and where you can also buy the book.

636
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 3: Our happydivorce dot com.

637
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 7: The hardest part for me was like listening to my

638
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 7: son tell me that like some other woman was putting

639
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 7: him to bed at night, and like, uh, that was like,

640
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 7: you know, to a mother's heart, it's just like it's

641
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 7: like someone's stabbing you. But a funny Asher story was

642
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 7: when he before I had met Nadia, Ben's current wife,

643
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 7: Asher I called. I would call him every night to

644
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 7: say a night to him when he wasn't with me,

645
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 7: and I called over there one night and I was like,

646
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 7: you know, I just want to, you know, saying good

647
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 7: night to you, and he said, hey, mom, I said, what,

648
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 7: he's probably about four I have at this point, and

649
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 7: he said, mom, do you know Nadia? And I said, no,

650
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 7: I know who she is, but I you know, mommy

651
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 7: hasn't met Baudia yet. And he goes, well, here, I

652
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 7: think you should talk to her and he puts her

653
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 7: on the phone.

654
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 5: Oh my god.

655
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 7: But you know that was his way of saying, you

656
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 7: know what, there's this girl that I'm hanging out with,

657
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 7: that daddy's hanging out with, but I think you should

658
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 7: know this girl too. And he was like smart enough

659
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 7: to kind of go, okay, let me just just break

660
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 7: the ice here and let mommy really like, you know,

661
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 7: let them talk.

662
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 8: Wow, they forced the introduction smart.

663
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 2: What are some of the what are some of the

664
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 2: tools in the book that if our listeners are divorced, like,

665
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 2: what can they learn from them?

666
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 8: Well?

667
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 6: I think the one thing is in sports say, we're

668
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 6: not doctors, we're not lawyers, we're not therapists.

669
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 8: We're just people with the lived experience, you know.

670
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 6: And uh, you know, my lived experience was a pretty high,

671
00:33:58,320 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 6: like I said, a high conflict divorce.

672
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 8: And just to show.

673
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 6: You how big of a deal and what big.

674
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 8: Emotions this was.

675
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 6: When I left the house, I left angry, I left bitter,

676
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 6: I left pointing the finger at Nikki it was all

677
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 6: her fault. And I went out, and I hired this big,

678
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 6: fancy lawyer and was going to go down the same

679
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 6: path as my parents, despite having that experience, you know,

680
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 6: despite having that, you know, being in that toxic environment

681
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 6: and getting handed a bill, emotional bill to pay for

682
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 6: something I had no choice in.

683
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 8: But yet I was going to do that to my

684
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 8: son again.

685
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 6: But luckily colmer heads prevailed eventually, and I was able

686
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 6: to realize that I knew where that path ended and

687
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 6: wanted to find a different path.

688
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 8: But I think the different.

689
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 6: Path that we found was and this is gonna sound apathetic,

690
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 6: and it's gonna sound apathetic on purpose, but divorce is

691
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 6: just a business deal, right, You're just splitting assets, you're making,

692
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 6: you know, a financial thing. The problem is that it

693
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 6: gets mixed with every every negative emotion you could possibly have.

694
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 8: And you know, the only.

695
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 6: Advice that I would give people that we did, that

696
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 6: we did write is that we dealt with the emotional

697
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 6: side first. We dealt with our stuff first, individually, our

698
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 6: side of the street, and we both agreed. And that's

699
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 6: why there's no villain because we both have equal parts

700
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 6: in the ending of the marriage, just like we have

701
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 6: equal parts. And that's why when we wrote this book,

702
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 6: I said the only way I'm writing it was if

703
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 6: Nikki doesn't with because it takes two to make a relationship,

704
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 6: and it takes two to ruin a relationship. So if

705
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 6: any piece of advice that I can give people is

706
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,479
Speaker 6: there's no prize for getting divorce the quick.

707
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 7: You need to take care of your stuff before you

708
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 7: can take care of each other's.

709
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 1: For sure. I have a question for both of you, sorry, Ben,

710
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: real quick, Nikki. I'll start with you because I'm interested

711
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: because you guys have a similar dynamic. Where like Ben,

712
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: you said you come from a divorce parents, Janna comes

713
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 1: from divorce parents. Nikki, My parents are like yours. My

714
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: parents have been married thirty plays years. Did you guys individually,

715
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 1: was that an added pressure? Was it like Ben more?

716
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,399
Speaker 1: Were you more normalized to it so you're like, yeah,

717
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: I'll just get divorced. Nikki, did you feel more pressured

718
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: because of your parents being married so long? I'm just

719
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: curious about how that impacts.

720
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I.

721
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 7: Mean, and I have three sisters, two like, and they're

722
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 7: both married, and I think that I honestly, I am

723
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 7: the first person in my family to get divorced, like

724
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 7: even like extended family, I don't think any of there's

725
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 7: I don't think there's anybody so and I'm the baby

726
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 7: of the family. So for me to like have to

727
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,320
Speaker 7: go to my parents, who you know, are semi religious

728
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 7: and like, you know, believe in the thing to be

729
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 7: of marriage and all that stuff. But like for me

730
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 7: to have to go to them and say hey, by

731
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 7: the way, that, I think that was almost scarier than

732
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,439
Speaker 7: getting divorced himself. I was scared of death.

733
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 6: It's funny because it's, as you said, as it was

734
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 6: easier for me, and it was actually, you know, it's

735
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 6: like I grew up around alcohol and drug use as

736
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 6: a kid, and I was like, you know, and then

737
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 6: turned into an alcoholic and attic and luckily got over.

738
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 8: That or get sober pretty young.

739
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 6: But it's not something like I sought out to do, right,

740
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 6: I mean, it wasn't like even though even though you know,

741
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 6: and I told Nikki this, it's in the book, you know,

742
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 6: on our wedding day, I was looking at the mirror

743
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 6: I had hair at the time, I was doing my hair,

744
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 6: and I you know, it wasn't just cold feet. It

745
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 6: was an honest look into my soul saying you shouldn't

746
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 6: do this. This isn't the right you know, this isn't

747
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 6: the right thing to do. But yet I went through

748
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 6: and you know, we talked about those red flashing lights

749
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 6: and the you know, railroad tracks, and but it wasn't

750
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 6: even with that. It wasn't something that I ever intended

751
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 6: to get divorced, you know, or or ever thought that

752
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 6: I would.

753
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 2: But you know, how was the writing process Because if

754
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 2: you weren't divorced, then do you think you would have

755
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 2: because I know with Michael and I we were because

756
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 2: we just you know, we wrote a book and it's

757
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 2: we our writing styles are just very different. So it

758
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 2: was you know, maybe it was easier you guys being

759
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 2: divorced so you didn't have to write together.

760
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 9: Nope, Nikki, Yeah, I mean, I can't even tell you

761
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 9: how many times I told Ben, I'm to stick this

762
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 9: book up your butt, Like how many times I'm like,

763
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 9: I have so many times I would call them and go,

764
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 9: I'm not doing your stupid book.

765
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 6: But that's because we're going to fighting up because anything but.

766
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 7: Two, I mean, you have to rehash a lot of

767
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 7: stuff when you're trying to like dig right.

768
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 8: But yeah, the idea was and it's not original. I

769
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 8: don't know if you guys ever saw the.

770
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 6: Series The Affair, Yes, and how they took one situation

771
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 6: and you know, each half an hour of the show

772
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 6: was you know, one person's perspective, and so that's the

773
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 6: sort of framework we took. So we alternated chapters. Uh,

774
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 6: And I never I read in her chapters, but I

775
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 6: never changed it. You know, it was her story, it

776
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 6: was her experience. She never changed mind, no matter what

777
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 6: I said, no matter what I did, and we just

778
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 6: you know, we just sort of meshed it together. But

779
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 6: then to show you how this sort of relationship with

780
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 6: Chad and Nadia, our spouses, had evolved, this was just

781
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 6: gonna be Nicky my book. And then, you know, because

782
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 6: it took so long, and NICKI, you know, I had

783
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 6: to go fishing for the book up my butt so

784
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 6: many times that the relationship had evolved so much that

785
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,879
Speaker 6: we were like, wait a second, this happy divorce has

786
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 6: to include Naughty and Chad, So we had them right.

787
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 8: Chapters in the book.

788
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: Wow.

789
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 6: And then our son and then our son had written

790
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 6: an essay to get as high school acceptance or the

791
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:34,240
Speaker 6: essay was about somebody he admired and he wrote about

792
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 6: his mom.

793
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 8: And dad about what they've accomplished.

794
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 6: And we didn't, you know, handcuff him and you know,

795
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 6: to the bed, make them and make him right.

796
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 8: It actually did out of his own position.

797
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 6: So that essay and a chapter is in the end

798
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 6: of the book and sort of puts a bow on

799
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 6: the whole thing.

800
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's amazing. What have you guys take since you're

801
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 1: both remarried, what have you guys taken into your new

802
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 1: marriages that you learned from being together.

803
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 6: Well, I married the right person that I get, no question,

804
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,280
Speaker 6: no questions like you asked if it was the right decision.

805
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:11,359
Speaker 6: Like I look at Nicki and Chad, and Nicki never

806
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,320
Speaker 6: looked at me like she looks at Chad. She never

807
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 6: held I mean, but the same thing's probably true with

808
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 6: Naughty and I mean, it just was like Nicki and

809
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 6: Chad are meant to be together. Nadia and I meant together,

810
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 6: And now I can see it without any anger, without

811
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 6: any resentment, but nothing but love, you know, I mean

812
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,359
Speaker 6: nothing but love for her and for Chad, because you know,

813
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 6: all I got to do is, you know, be honest

814
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 6: with myself and swallow my ego and say, look, she never.

815
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 8: Looked at me like that.

816
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 3: I love that.

817
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 1: Well, we respect the hell out of you guys, because

818
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: dealing with such a topic that fifty percent of marriages

819
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 1: deal with. I mean, I hope everyone goes to our

820
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: Happy Divorce dot Com and does their research on how

821
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 1: to be an adult through this process, because yeah, this

822
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: is amazing. So thank you guys, Ben and Nikki so

823
00:40:58,160 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: much for being on the show with us.

824
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:00,800
Speaker 3: Yeah it's really enlightening.

825
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 1: So don't forget to get their book, Our Happy divorce

826
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: and you can get that at our happydivorce dot com.

827
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 8: Thank you very much.

828
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much.

829
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 2: Okay, thanks all right? Mark got an emails, BIB we do.

830
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 4: Indeed, this is an anonymous emailer. My boyfriend and I've

831
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,240
Speaker 4: been dating for four years. I'm twenty eight, he's almost

832
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 4: thirty four. After three years of dating, I expressed I

833
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 4: would like to get engaged. He was very adamant. He

834
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 4: wanted to live together first, so last the summer we

835
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 4: moved in together. We decided to resign the lease in

836
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 4: June and I said, how about a six month lease.

837
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 4: Is that enough time to decide if this is going

838
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 4: to work, because I don't want to resign if, you know,

839
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 4: not engaged. June came and went, we're still not engaged.

840
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 4: I expressed how this made me feel and said maybe

841
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 4: we need to go our separate ways. He said no, no, no, no,

842
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 4: no no, We'll be engaged by the end of summer.

843
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 4: No ring shopping, no nothing thing. End of August not engaged.

844
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 4: I've sat to resent him. It's really taking a toll

845
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:06,840
Speaker 4: on a relationship. It's now mid September as I write this,

846
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 4: and I once again brought up the fact that maybe

847
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 4: we aren't meant to be. He says, no, no, no, no, no no,

848
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 4: We'll be engaged by your birthday, my birthdays in October.

849
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 5: How am I supposed to believe him? We haven't done

850
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 5: any shopping, no discussing.

851
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 4: I'm really struggling if this is meant to be or

852
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 4: if he's just playing with my feelings and calling my

853
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 4: bluff because I've given in the past two times by

854
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,839
Speaker 4: staying together. I'm really struggling. I'm thinking of ending things.

855
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 4: I'd love to know all of your thoughts.

856
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 3: This reminds me of Sarah. How old is she again?

857
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:31,879
Speaker 1: Twenty eight?

858
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 3: I think?

859
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 2: I mean it kind of reminds me of the Sarah

860
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 2: you know, Sarah Gwetski Gwski situation. My fear, though, is

861
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 2: that he is He's just trying to find the right time,

862
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 2: and then you don't want to you don't want to

863
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 2: blow it either. I mean, it's quarantine. It's kind of

864
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,439
Speaker 2: been hard to go ring shopping. It's kind of hard

865
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:55,240
Speaker 2: to do things. It's kind of hard to plan something

866
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 2: amazing for you.

867
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 1: Excuses.

868
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe, but I see it more. I almost

869
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 2: see it more as give it, give it another six

870
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 2: months and just let it. I know I'm saying this

871
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,320
Speaker 2: like I'm the biggest hypocrite in the world. But you

872
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 2: don't want to blow with something. You don't want to

873
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 2: blow a surprise like you don't want to you don't

874
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,919
Speaker 2: wanna like, just enjoy you're twenty eight. Give it six

875
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 2: more months, that's my and then be like, hey, look

876
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 2: like I'm I'm getting frustrated and I need some time

877
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 2: to think.

878
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: She's going to be twenty nine this month.

879
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 2: She's fine. I was thirty and single. She's fine. She

880
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 2: can wait six more months. That's just my advice.

881
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 3: Don't blow it.

882
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 2: Don't because if he's the one, But then again, if

883
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 2: you're so easy to leave, maybe then he's not the

884
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 2: right one.

885
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 1: I don't think she's easy to leave, Otherwise she would

886
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: have left. I think she's just trying to force his

887
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 1: hand and he's calling her bluff. So she just has

888
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 1: to be prepared. She anonymous. You have to come to

889
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: terms with your timeline, whether it's by the end of

890
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: this year, six months from now, twelve months from now,

891
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 1: whatever it is, and that you can realistically see yourself

892
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 1: leaving if it doesn't happen by then, And so maybe

893
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: give him to another six months. Say Look, no, I've

894
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:23,919
Speaker 1: said this a lot. I am leaving because I got

895
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 1: to move on with my life. I'm twenty I'll be

896
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 1: twenty nine. He's thirty four. They've been together for four years.

897
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 2: Sarah and Ty were together for like seven years.

898
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: Right, they also started dating at like twenty two.

899
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 3: It's seven years.

900
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 2: Look, and but I will say what Sarah did is

901
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 2: she basically was like, I'm not going on the hockey.

902
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 2: So you have just to start saying like, I'm not

903
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 2: doing this right.

904
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, That's what I'm saying. She just has to figure

905
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,800
Speaker 1: out what that time is and go from there.

906
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 3: Okay, what's next, Christina.

907
00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 4: My husband recently admitted to me that he's at a

908
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 4: sexual attraction to another woman that we know for the

909
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 4: past six years. He told me he's never acted upon it,

910
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 4: and I do believe him. He's been brutally honest with

911
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 4: me and very communicative. He told me he loves me

912
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 4: so much that he feels satisfied with our relationship, but

913
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,240
Speaker 4: still has an attraction to this person.

914
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 5: We plan on entering therapy together.

915
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 4: But I guess I feel like I don't know how

916
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 4: to move forward from here. If it's been this long

917
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 4: six years. It's clearly not going to go away. So

918
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 4: how can I ever feel confident? How can I ever

919
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 4: stop wondering if he's thinking about her when we're intimate together.

920
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:32,879
Speaker 4: I appreciate any advice of both of you and how

921
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 4: you battle those insecurities and feeling like you're enough for

922
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 4: your spouse.

923
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 3: That's tough.

924
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 2: I don't like that might just be too honest for me.

925
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,359
Speaker 2: Is there such a thing I think there is? That's

926
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 2: a little I don't want to know. It's a little

927
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 2: too honest for me, Like if I told you I'm like,

928
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 2: I'm really attracted to my whatever it.

929
00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 5: Is, someone you both know for a long time.

930
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's like.

931
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 2: I just don't think that. But then again, that's being honest.

932
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 2: But then that's kind of too honest. How can I

933
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 2: be such a hypocrite with saying it's too honest? I

934
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 2: feel like that's so hypocritical.

935
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 1: I don't think it's hypocritical. It's like it's kind of like,

936
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 1: do I look fat in the stress? You know what

937
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 1: I mean?

938
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 2: But also maybe it's his way of saying I need

939
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 2: to say something or I might be tempted to cheat, Or.

940
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 1: Is it his way of fishing to see if she'll

941
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: have a threesome.

942
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 3: Oh of course that's where you go.

943
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: No more, No, I'm just saying it started coming to me.

944
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,879
Speaker 1: I'm like, if he's that brutally honest, does he I'm

945
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 1: just saying, does he have some other agenda?

946
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 2: I mean maybe I would.

947
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: Have to know more about about both of both of them.

948
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 1: I need to know more of their history. I need

949
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 1: to know his history. I need to talk to the guy.

950
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 1: Then I could figure it out.

951
00:46:59,440 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 3: You know.

952
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 2: It's I've known like a guy that's just like very

953
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 2: honest and says like, all this girl's hot in front

954
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:10,799
Speaker 2: of you know, his wife, and but it still just

955
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 2: feels a little too much. But if it's fine with

956
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 2: your partner, but obviously it's not fine for her, that's uncomfortable.

957
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 1: Well saying someone because Okay, you and I have had

958
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 1: this discussion, you know, over the years, and we you

959
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: understand that there's beautiful people exist in this world, right

960
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 1: like it is what it is acknowledging someone like if

961
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: you say, oh, yeah, she's pretty, like what we're watching

962
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: a show or whatever. It's like, yeah, she's a pretty girl.

963
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:46,840
Speaker 1: She yeah, whatever. But saying that there's sexual attraction.

964
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's basically saying I want to them is very different.

965
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 1: And how would you feel comfortable?

966
00:47:55,400 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 2: Like and I don't even say that someone's attractive like

967
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 2: that one time when that guy came with the lost dog,

968
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 2: like I I got caught in that.

969
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,760
Speaker 1: But when Janna really thinks someone's attractive, she can't speak.

970
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 1: This was a handsome guy.

971
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 3: I mean, if you want to say it, that's fine.

972
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 1: I mean I caught you and who was it, Sarah? Yeah,

973
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 1: Sarah's just swooning over this guy.

974
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:27,760
Speaker 3: Not swooning.

975
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 2: He was looking for a lost dog and we were

976
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 2: just helping him.

977
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, swooning. But she says, you know, she asked,

978
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:34,920
Speaker 1: how can I ever feel confident? How can I ever

979
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 1: stop wondering if he's thinking about her when we're intimate together?

980
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 1: If you the confidence is just well, if he told

981
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 1: me that he's thinking about it, like he like you said,

982
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 1: like he's the king of honesty, He'll tell you like

983
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like, yeah, you don't have

984
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:53,280
Speaker 1: to wonder because he's he's gonna tell you clearly that's true. Yeah,

985
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:57,320
Speaker 1: you know, now, the thing about wondering if he's thinking

986
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 1: of her while there intimate together that. I think that's

987
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:03,799
Speaker 1: just something that you just kind of remind yourself to

988
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: be in the present in and not let your head

989
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: go there.

990
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,720
Speaker 5: Who knows what any of us are thinking in those moments.

991
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 2: Right, It's Mike's probably thinking about Marvel movies. I'm probably

992
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 2: Captain America. What's what's the girl's name? I mean Captain Marvel.

993
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,800
Speaker 2: I'm Captain Marvel girl probably with him?

994
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 3: Great? All right, well not no, ladies and gentlemen.

995
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 1: It's that's a wrap.

996
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 3: That's wrap. Love you guys, See you next week later