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Speaker 1: Hey, Jorgey, do you ever feel guilty when we send

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Speaker 1: a probe to go poking around another planet? Guilty? What

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Speaker 1: do you mean guilty? I think we're just being curious, right,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It's a bit presumptuous and forward, you know,

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Speaker 1: like what if I sent a drone into your house

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Speaker 1: to take pictures and samples? I see you mean, like

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Speaker 1: for me, we're disregarding the planets privacy. Yeah, like maybe

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Speaker 1: we should give them some morning so at least they

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Speaker 1: can get dressed before we show up with our cameras,

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Speaker 1: or maybe undressed, you know, maybe that's what they prefer.

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Speaker 1: That makes me wonder what an embarrassed alien looks like anyway,

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Speaker 1: and what account is not safe for work? I am

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Speaker 1: R Handy cartoonists and the creator of pH D com Hi.

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Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and I always get

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Speaker 1: dressed for work. Oh nice, that's a good disclaimer to

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Speaker 1: make in public. Even these days when everything is remote,

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Speaker 1: you still got to put your pants on when you

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Speaker 1: get started on your day, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Known as the naked physicists, I definitely do not want

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Speaker 1: to be known for that. Absolutely not naked and Curious

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Speaker 1: could be the name of the reality show Daniel Naked Curiosity.

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Speaker 1: There you go, but welcome to our podcast. Daniel and

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Speaker 1: Jorge explain the Universe Wearing Clothes, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio, in which we try to strip the mystery

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Speaker 1: for everything in the universe. We try to find everything

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Speaker 1: that makes you curious and peel back the layers, undressing

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Speaker 1: the confusion and addressing your questions and trying to make

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Speaker 1: sure that everything in the universe makes sense to you

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Speaker 1: and give you the bare facts about the cosmos and

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Speaker 1: everything in it, all the amazing things and all of

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Speaker 1: the mysterious things, and also the things that we don't

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Speaker 1: know if they exist. That's right, because we have two

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Speaker 1: ways to get surprised in our universe. One is to

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Speaker 1: go out there and see weird stuff that just doesn't

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Speaker 1: make any sense to us until we can wrap our

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Speaker 1: minds around it. And the other is to think of

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Speaker 1: weird stuff, what if this kind of thing exists? What

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Speaker 1: if that kind of thing exists? Is this even possible?

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Speaker 1: And then to go out and look for it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because a lot of times it seems like the math

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Speaker 1: tells us what can exist, and oftentimes we actually go

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Speaker 1: out there and find it. That's right. There's lots of

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Speaker 1: times when we make a mathematical theory that describes something

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Speaker 1: we see in the universe, and then we explore the

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Speaker 1: corners of it. We say, well, if these rules are real,

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Speaker 1: what else do they predict? What else should we be

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Speaker 1: looking for? And you know, some people think that the

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Speaker 1: universe is mathematical, that these rules are the ones that

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Speaker 1: control the universe, and so if they have a wrinkle

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Speaker 1: in them that predicts something weird, that might actually be real.

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Speaker 1: So if you are not into math, we have news

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Speaker 1: for you. You might be in math. As you might

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Speaker 1: be math, math might be you. Yeah. And and I

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Speaker 1: think a big example of that idea of thinking of

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Speaker 1: something first and then discovering is black holes. Right. Black

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Speaker 1: holes were first theorized by Einstein, and then people wondered

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Speaker 1: about it for a long time, and then we started

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Speaker 1: finding evidence for them, and then we actually just recently

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Speaker 1: took a picture of a black hole. Yeah, And more

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Speaker 1: than just wondered about them, people disregarded them for a

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Speaker 1: long time. People figured like, well, that can't be real.

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Speaker 1: That's evidence that there's something wrong with our theory. For

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Speaker 1: our theory predicts something as absurd and as crazy as

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Speaker 1: a black hole has got to be something wrong with it,

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Speaker 1: But then of course they found it, and so the

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Speaker 1: theory is not wrong, and that teaches you to follow

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Speaker 1: the math. And this happens all the time, even in

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Speaker 1: quantum mechanics, where we say, look, quantum mechanics predicts this

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Speaker 1: totally absurd thing that could never really be real, and

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Speaker 1: then you go out and you do the experiment and boom,

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Speaker 1: it actually israel and the universe is as weird and

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Speaker 1: as mathematical as we thought. Does that mean humans are

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Speaker 1: not as weird as we should be? Do you think,

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Speaker 1: like maybe we just to think weirder. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: that's definitely true. I think of all the various layers

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Speaker 1: of reality, the one we live in is the least weird.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we live in this sort of large stuff

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Speaker 1: that's not quantum mechanical and the slow stuff that's not relativistic,

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Speaker 1: and so our corner of the universe is sort of

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Speaker 1: very unweird, and if we were much much smaller or

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Speaker 1: much much faster than physics would be much much weirder.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that's just a perspective kind of thing, though, right, Maybe,

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Speaker 1: like if we were smaller or bigger. We might think

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Speaker 1: that's normal and our size is weird. Yeah, that's a

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Speaker 1: difficult mental inversion, but you're right, it might be weird

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Speaker 1: to think, Oh, my gosh, velocities add linearly in objects

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Speaker 1: have like smooth trajectories. How bizarre is that? It's hard

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Speaker 1: to put yourself in that frame of mind because this

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Speaker 1: is the only one we've ever had. But that's exactly

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Speaker 1: the point that physics tries to take us out of

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Speaker 1: our familiar frame of mind and make us realize that

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Speaker 1: the way we see the universe is limited, and the

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Speaker 1: way the universe really is could be vastly to friends,

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Speaker 1: And that's why we do these sort of mental and

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Speaker 1: physical explorations. And black holes are weird, right, They are

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Speaker 1: one of the weirdest things in the universe, and they

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Speaker 1: are definitely very weird. They are little pockets of mystery,

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Speaker 1: and one of the weirdest things about them is that

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Speaker 1: we cannot see what's in them. We can't go inside

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Speaker 1: a black hole or look inside a black hole, or

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Speaker 1: get any information from what's going on inside the black

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Speaker 1: hole to learn about these crazy corners of the universe. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because what's weird about them is what's inside the actual

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Speaker 1: black hole? Right? What they call the singularity? That's right.

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Speaker 1: General relativity at least predicts a singularity inside the black hole,

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Speaker 1: although many other theories of physics, likede quantum mechanics objects

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Speaker 1: to the existence of a singularity, and various mathematicians suggest

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Speaker 1: the singularities are impossible in a physical universe. So then

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Speaker 1: the question is what is inside the black hole? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a question of whether singularities can even exist, and

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Speaker 1: unfortunately we can't see the ones inside of a black hole.

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Speaker 1: So the question then is is it possible to see

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Speaker 1: a singularity outside of a black hole or a singularity

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Speaker 1: that's not a black hole? Yeah? Is it possible to

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Speaker 1: uncloak the singularity, to strip away the event horizon so

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Speaker 1: that as an observer you could directly see with your

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Speaker 1: own eyes this bizarre thing, this singularity of space. Such

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Speaker 1: a really fun, fascinating question. So to be on the podcast,

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Speaker 1: we'll be asking the question what is a naked singularity

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Speaker 1: and why doesn't it have any singular clothes? Even just

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Speaker 1: one pair of pants? Right, if it's a singularity, should

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Speaker 1: have one of everything, supposed to physicist who were three

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Speaker 1: pants or four hats? At a time. That's right, And

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Speaker 1: I love this name naked singularity. I mean, of course

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Speaker 1: there's the slight blush factor, but also it invokes this

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Speaker 1: sense that we could like really peel back the layers

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Speaker 1: of the universe and see the truth, the bare naked

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Speaker 1: truth of what's going on with space time. I guess

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Speaker 1: the question is, we don't even know if a singularity

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Speaker 1: is possible in our universe. I mean, it's theorized inside

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Speaker 1: of a black hole, but you can't see inside of

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Speaker 1: the black hole. Yeah, that's right, And so this is

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Speaker 1: an experimental question and a theoretical question. It's an experimental

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Speaker 1: question like could we see a singularity, what would it

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Speaker 1: look like? Can we find one? If they do exist?

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Speaker 1: And a theoretical question like what would it mean if

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Speaker 1: they can exist? What would it actually be like? And

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Speaker 1: then we'll get into this. But like, people don't even

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Speaker 1: agree about what a singularity is, that there's no singular

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Speaker 1: answer or a definition. There's a duopoly of singularities. Man. Well,

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Speaker 1: as usually, we were wondering how many people had heard

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Speaker 1: these two words together, naked and singularity at the same time,

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Speaker 1: And so, as usual, Daniel went out there into the

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Speaker 1: internet to ask people if they knew what a naked

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Speaker 1: singularity was. So thank you to everybody who have volunteered

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Speaker 1: to answer questions without any preparation. And if you would

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Speaker 1: like to similarly give answers to tough physics questions without

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Speaker 1: using any reference materials, please write to us two questions

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Speaker 1: at Daniel and Jorge dot com. So think about it

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Speaker 1: for a second. If someone as you on the street

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Speaker 1: or on the internet what a naked singularity is, what

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Speaker 1: would you answer. Here's what people had to say. I

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Speaker 1: have never heard of naked singularity, but I definitely know

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Speaker 1: what naked means, and I think I know what you

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Speaker 1: mean by singularity, so I would imagine it has something

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Speaker 1: to do with the very earliest of universe stripped of

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Speaker 1: all forces. Singularity basically means when all the matter condenses

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Speaker 1: down to one blob. For example, like all the gravitational

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Speaker 1: force starts to attract all the matter and it just

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Speaker 1: condenses down to one small blob, and that's you know

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Speaker 1: how people say our universe is gonna end naked singularity? Um,

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Speaker 1: I think might be when this blob doesn't feel any force,

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Speaker 1: any other force from outside the singularity, so it might

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Speaker 1: be naked to everything else in the universe. I'm not sure. Well,

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Speaker 1: singularity is an intense amount of matter and energy in

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Speaker 1: one point in space, so a naked singularity would be

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Speaker 1: similarity that we could see like a center of a

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Speaker 1: black hole if you if you took if you could

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Speaker 1: just see into the center. I think it's something linked

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Speaker 1: to a black hole. I think a naked singularity is

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Speaker 1: something like a black hole without a short shirt radios,

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Speaker 1: so a lot of mass on one point and it

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Speaker 1: would not be heavy enough to keep light to itself.

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Speaker 1: But I'm not sure if people agree upon if this

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Speaker 1: can exist. Maybe this is a black hole without an

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Speaker 1: event horizon, or maybe there's a start collapsing directly into

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Speaker 1: a black hole without the supernova. Maybe there's something with

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Speaker 1: other singularities, like technological singularity. All right, a lot of

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Speaker 1: people linked it to black holes, which is what we

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Speaker 1: were just talking about. And a lot of people had

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Speaker 1: heard the to words separately, not together, naked and singularity,

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Speaker 1: but maybe they had not heard of them together naked singularity. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I think the name of this thing goes a

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Speaker 1: long way to explaining it, as you can tell by

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Speaker 1: people's answers that pretty quickly put together the idea that

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Speaker 1: maybe a naked singularity is one that you could actually see,

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Speaker 1: the one that isn't dressed by a black hole. All right,

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Speaker 1: we'll step us through this, Daniel, First of all, what

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Speaker 1: is a singularity? Because I think I know what naked means,

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Speaker 1: and if you don't, I'm not going to be the

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Speaker 1: one explaining it to you. I've known since I was born.

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Speaker 1: I think, what's the definition of a singularity? And is

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Speaker 1: there a singular definition of it? Yeah? So this is

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Speaker 1: a fun question because you can have an idea about

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Speaker 1: something before you have like a really precise, theoretical, crisp

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Speaker 1: definition of what it is. And that's sort of the

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Speaker 1: case here with singularity. That's sort of like the vague

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Speaker 1: idea of a singularity, and then there's people trying to

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Speaker 1: actually work out, well, what do we really mean, like

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Speaker 1: mathematically when we talk about a singularity, And unfortunately there's

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Speaker 1: not a whole lot of Chris definitions. It's sort of

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Speaker 1: like two general ideas about what we mean about a

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Speaker 1: singularity when we talk about in the theory, like in math.

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Speaker 1: In the math and also in philosophy. Remember that almost

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Speaker 1: every field of science in the end was born out

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Speaker 1: of philosophy people thinking about tough questions and try to

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Speaker 1: figure out, like how do we make progress on questions

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Speaker 1: of like what is the universe? And eventually things get

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Speaker 1: crisp enough and formed well enough and mathematical enough that

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Speaker 1: like scientists can take over and actually make progress. So

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Speaker 1: some of these things still are on the boundary between

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Speaker 1: physics and philosophy because they're sort of like bubbling emerging questions.

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Speaker 1: And that's the situation here with this question about what

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Speaker 1: is a singularity? Yeah, so what are these two different

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Speaker 1: ideas about what it is? You said, there's two, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so the first one is probably the one that

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Speaker 1: comes to mind, and most people think about a singularity,

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Speaker 1: and that's where the space sort of breaks down, where

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Speaker 1: something in space becomes unphysical, it becomes like infinite, something

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Speaker 1: that you figure like can't actually really happen. You know.

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Speaker 1: For example, a black hole, we imagine might have a

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Speaker 1: point at the center of it with an enormous amount

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Speaker 1: of mass in a physical dot in a point with

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Speaker 1: no volume, and that would be infinite density, and the

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Speaker 1: curvature of space there is described by general relativity, would

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Speaker 1: be infinite. And so we talk about that as a

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Speaker 1: singularity because general relativity breaks down there where the curvature

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Speaker 1: of space becomes infinite. Yeah. I think it's sort of

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Speaker 1: related to infinity, right, because infinity is pretty much kind

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Speaker 1: of the only thing that can break down math, right,

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Speaker 1: Like we don't really understand it, or it's sort of

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Speaker 1: like not defined in math, right. Yeah. In some cases though,

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Speaker 1: it depends on the application, Like and sometimes when physics

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Speaker 1: gives you an infinity, you say, well, that's wrong, that's nonsense,

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Speaker 1: that can't happen. Although other times in physics you can

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Speaker 1: have infinities, like the universe might be infinite in extent,

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Speaker 1: it might go on forever in every direction, and that

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Speaker 1: doesn't violate any principle of physics. It would mean the

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Speaker 1: universe has an infinite amount of energy in it, right,

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Speaker 1: Or the universe could have existed for an infinite amount

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Speaker 1: of time or could exist for an infinite amount of

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Speaker 1: times into the future. So sometimes infinity is allowed in physics,

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Speaker 1: not a big deal. Other times it doesn't work, and

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Speaker 1: it just depends on the theory. And in the case

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Speaker 1: of a black hole. The reason that we don't like

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Speaker 1: the infinity is that we describe what happens to space

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Speaker 1: and things moving through space based on how space is curved,

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Speaker 1: like how much is space bent by the presence of mass?

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Speaker 1: And you know, for example that like space around the

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Speaker 1: Sun is curved a little bit, which makes it natural

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Speaker 1: for an object like the Earth to move in a

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Speaker 1: circle around the Sun instead of what we would see

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Speaker 1: as a straight line. So you can make predictions about

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Speaker 1: what happens to something that moves through curved space. But

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Speaker 1: you can't do that if the curvature is infinite, Like

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Speaker 1: the equations just don't work. They give you nonsense answers.

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Speaker 1: And so the theory general relativity breaks down when the

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Speaker 1: curvature becomes infinite. So we call that a singularity of

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Speaker 1: space time. Right, it seems like it it comes to

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Speaker 1: singularity when something gets infinite in like a very short

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Speaker 1: amount of space or a short amount of time. Maybe

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Speaker 1: could that be sort of the one way to define

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Speaker 1: it or to understand it. Yeah, And it really can

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Speaker 1: be almost anything that can become infinite. You know, for example,

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Speaker 1: you can have an electron. Electron is a point particle

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Speaker 1: and it has a charge to it, and you can ask,

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Speaker 1: for example, what is the electric field around an electron? Well,

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Speaker 1: it depends on the distance you are from the electron.

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Speaker 1: But if the electron is a point particle, then you

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Speaker 1: can get as close as you want to it right

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Speaker 1: that distance can basically go to zero, which means that

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Speaker 1: the electric field or the force from the particle becomes infinite.

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Speaker 1: And so you can find these singularities not just in

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Speaker 1: sort of crazy exotic situations like the center of a

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Speaker 1: black hole, but also in fairly simple, straightforward situations like

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Speaker 1: an electron with all electrons are singularity. Is that what

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Speaker 1: you're saying, or mathematically, that's what the math would tell you.

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Speaker 1: So real electrons are not singularities, and that's because the

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Speaker 1: simple mathematical description just gave you isn't the right one.

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Speaker 1: What really happens when you get close to an electron

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Speaker 1: is that it creates lots of other particles around its photons,

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Speaker 1: which turned into quantum fluctuating positron electron pairs. We talked

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Speaker 1: about this on another episode. Is called renormalization, where you

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Speaker 1: redefine what it means to be the particle, and the

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Speaker 1: particle becomes not just a point but a bunch of

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Speaker 1: quantum mechanicals froth slashing around that point, and that becomes

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Speaker 1: our definition of the particle, which in effect limits how

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Speaker 1: close you can get to it. So quantum mechanics sort

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Speaker 1: of covers up the singularity there prevents a singularity from happening.

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Speaker 1: But in classical electromagnetism, if you just really did have

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Speaker 1: an electron with a point particle, that would be a singularity.

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Speaker 1: And so that's an example of how we don't think

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Speaker 1: that singularity actually happens in the universe because electrons are

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Speaker 1: not infinitely powerful points of charge. Okay, so that's one

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Speaker 1: definition of a singularity. It's like when something goes infinite

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Speaker 1: in a small amount of space or a short amount

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Speaker 1: of time. So what's the other definition of a singularity. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's this definition in philosophy of a singularity in space,

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Speaker 1: which is a path that is not extendable. Like you

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Speaker 1: can imagine moving through the universe and you can just

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Speaker 1: keep going right in the path you're on, can just

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Speaker 1: keep going, Well, what if you came to a spot

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Speaker 1: where your path just couldn't go anymore? And this, for example,

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Speaker 1: is what happens to a photon that falls into the

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Speaker 1: singularity inside a black hole or right doesn't go anywhere anymore.

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Speaker 1: It's not some other part of space. It goes to.

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Speaker 1: So it's like another way to look at a singularity.

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Speaker 1: It's like a weird deformation and sort of the arrangement

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Speaker 1: of space itself. I mean like a like a stub

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Speaker 1: in space, kind of like an abrupt end to space.

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Speaker 1: That's also called a singularity. Yeah, an abrupt end to space.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of like imagining that space has a boundary,

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Speaker 1: but instead of that boundary being like on the edge

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Speaker 1: of the universe, like we're all in some huge universe

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Speaker 1: that has you know, a crust to it, this is

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Speaker 1: like a boundary that's in a point, like a weird

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Speaker 1: spot in the universe, where like there's a point of

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Speaker 1: space there that's just not there, so you can't like

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Speaker 1: go there. It's a really weird idea. It's sort of

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Speaker 1: hard to get your mind around, but it's in some

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Speaker 1: ways equivalent to the other way of looking at a singularity.

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Speaker 1: You mean like it could exist in space, like a

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Speaker 1: stub inside of space. Yeah, it could exist in space

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Speaker 1: and like like a belly button or so many jokes

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Speaker 1: to make their absolutely, yeah, it could be just like

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Speaker 1: a weird feature of space where a particle that passes

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Speaker 1: into it doesn't emerge and that's another way to think

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Speaker 1: of a singularity. Right, just like belly bus, you know,

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Speaker 1: link goes in. When does it ever come out? Nobody knows.

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Speaker 1: Eventually it makes a black hole unless you're an audy

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Speaker 1: I guess. All right, well, now that's a good definition

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Speaker 1: of singularity. Now let's get into what a naked singularity

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Speaker 1: is and whether or not they're real. But first let's

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Speaker 1: take a quick break. All right, we're talking about naked singularities, Daniel,

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Speaker 1: and this is a safer work, right, we can talk

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Speaker 1: about naked singularities. Nobody's gonna get into trouble. That's right.

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Speaker 1: I had the singularity sign a waiver also, so we're

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Speaker 1: allowed to use the description of it as naked without

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Speaker 1: paying it any royalty. It's comfortable with itself, the singularity.

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Speaker 1: It's not self conscious singularity, alright. So singularity is either

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Speaker 1: like a stubb in space, like a belly button in space,

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Speaker 1: or just anything that kind of goes infinite in a

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Speaker 1: short amount of space or time. That's a singularity. So

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Speaker 1: then what is the naked singularity? Like something that is

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Speaker 1: like that, but it's not close, like it's not covered. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: it's just that simple. The idea is what a weird

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Speaker 1: thing to have in space? What is this bizarre thing

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Speaker 1: at the center of a black hole? What actually happens there?

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Speaker 1: And it's frustrating because black holes are always cloaked, right,

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Speaker 1: you can't see what's inside a black hole? Is there

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Speaker 1: singularity in there? Is there not? Is there something else

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Speaker 1: we're going on? We want to know? It? Frustrated and

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Speaker 1: have this weirdest part of space be hidden from us

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Speaker 1: by the event horizon. So then the question is it

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Speaker 1: possible to have a singularity that's naked, that's revealed to us,

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Speaker 1: a singularity that you could see from the outside, you

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Speaker 1: know that you could visit and investigate and then report

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Speaker 1: back to other people and maybe get some answers about

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Speaker 1: the nature of the universe and what it can and

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Speaker 1: can't do. Right, Well, the problem with the black hole

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Speaker 1: singularity is that it bends space and time, and so

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Speaker 1: it traps light, so we can't and everything else, and

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Speaker 1: so therefore we can see it or get any information

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Speaker 1: out of it. Right, Yeah, that's exactly right. The thing

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Speaker 1: that creates the singularity is an extraordinary density of mass,

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Speaker 1: and that mass also creates curvature of space around it,

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Speaker 1: which creates an event horizon, right, it means that there's

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Speaker 1: some point after which space has bent so much that

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Speaker 1: every direction forward, every path forward, eventually leads to the

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Speaker 1: center of the black hole. And you know, remember, the

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Speaker 1: event horizon itself is not like a physical objects. It's

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Speaker 1: just like a surface in space where once you pass it,

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Speaker 1: there's just no way to ever avoid hitting the singularity.

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Speaker 1: But it does mean that nothing that passes it can

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Speaker 1: emit light out of it, which means we can get

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Speaker 1: no information about what's going on beyond the event horizon.

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Speaker 1: That's what's so frustrating, because of course all love to

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Speaker 1: study the singularity, to see it, to row it, to

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Speaker 1: shoot particles at it, to hit it with a tennis

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Speaker 1: racket or whatever, but as long as it's behind an

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Speaker 1: event horizon, we can't do that, right, And so a

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Speaker 1: naked singularity then would be a singularity, but one that

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Speaker 1: you can actually like walk up to and get right

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Speaker 1: up next to it and look at it through a

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Speaker 1: magnifying glass and coke at it. Right, Yeah, exactly, that's

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Speaker 1: the idea. So if you have a picture in your

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Speaker 1: mind of sort of like the rubber sheet of space

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Speaker 1: where space gets bent by heavy mass, and the curvature

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Speaker 1: grows very very rapidly as you get close to the

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Speaker 1: black hole and then sort of goes to infinity at

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Speaker 1: the center of the black hole. Then image you should

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Speaker 1: have in your mind for naked singularity is more like

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Speaker 1: just a pin prick, like a point, like space is

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Speaker 1: mostly flat around the singularity, and then there's just this

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Speaker 1: point where the curvature goes to infinity very very quickly, right,

396
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Speaker 1: like a belly button, Just like a belly button. They

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Speaker 1: should have called this a belly button of the universe. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: bellybutton singularity. And in fact it works on multiple levels

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Speaker 1: because the same way that a belly button tells you

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Speaker 1: about like the origin of a person, it teaches you

401
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Speaker 1: but like their origin story and how they were created

402
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Speaker 1: through the placenta. Then a belly button singularity of the

403
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Speaker 1: universe can tell you something about the origin of the

404
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Speaker 1: universe because it teaches you about space, time and maybe

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Speaker 1: even helps you understand the Big Bang. Right, And so

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Speaker 1: I think belly button really is a great name for it.

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Speaker 1: I think now you just tress it too far there.

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Speaker 1: That was a little too much. But anyways, it is

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Speaker 1: sort of like something in space. So I guess the

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Speaker 1: question is, can you have a singularity without a black hole?

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Speaker 1: Or maybe you can have other kinds of singularities that

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Speaker 1: you could see, Yeah, exactly, And so that's the idea,

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Speaker 1: and people are embarked on this sort of like theoretical exploration.

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Speaker 1: They're like, can I make one in theory? Can I

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Speaker 1: satisfy Einstein's equations of the universe and have a naked singularity?

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Speaker 1: So it's like a way to explore the universe without

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Speaker 1: ever leaving your living room, just like can I arrange

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Speaker 1: this in reality? And you know, that's how black holes

419
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Speaker 1: were discovered, basically, as people trying to figure out, like, well,

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Speaker 1: we have these equations for how space and time bend

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Speaker 1: in response to mass, would they allow the creation of

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Speaker 1: this weird object. Let's see if the math says yes.

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Speaker 1: And the math said yes, And so that's where we

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Speaker 1: are with naked singularities, this sort of like exploring how

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Speaker 1: you might be able to make one, to figure out

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Speaker 1: is possible, is it allowed? What would it mean if

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Speaker 1: it is allowed, what would it mean if it isn't allowed?

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Speaker 1: All that sort of stuff, And so there's various ways

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Speaker 1: people have thought of theoretically to try to manufacture a

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Speaker 1: naked singularity in the equation right, Well, is it even

431
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 1: possible to have like basically a black hole without the

432
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,639
Speaker 1: black hole? Can you have a singularity in space time

433
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,639
Speaker 1: just like a black hole, but not have the black

434
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 1: you know, trap around it? Is that possible? The short

435
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 1: answer is, we don't know. Some people think it's impossible,

436
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 1: absolutely impossible. Some people think it might still be possible.

437
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 1: And there's lots of areas of investigation and sort of

438
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 1: a few paths people are going down and exploring the

439
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,679
Speaker 1: idea of a naked singularity, and one is to create

440
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 1: a singularity using a black hole and then try to

441
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,640
Speaker 1: remove the event horizon. What do you mean, how can

442
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 1: you remove the event horizon? Yeah, it's people actually writing

443
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 1: about this all the time. They ask like, could you

444
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: destroy a black hole? And we usually we say no,

445
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 1: but we actually had a whole episode about how to

446
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 1: destroy a black hole. And there is one possible way

447
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: you could strip away the event horizon, and that's if

448
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 1: you make the black hole spin really really fast. Because

449
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,239
Speaker 1: remember that black holes are not just heavy objects that

450
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 1: curve space. The way that space gets curved is actually

451
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 1: quite complicated and depends not just on like how much

452
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 1: mass is there, but on its arrangement, and also on

453
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 1: how fast it's spinning, because angular momentum contains energy, and

454
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 1: space bends not just in response to mass, but also

455
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:02,160
Speaker 1: in response to energy. And there's one class of black holes.

456
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 1: They're called curb black holes k E r R. And

457
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: these black holes are spinning. Now, if you take that

458
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: black hole and you convert a lot of its energy

459
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: into spin, you like, drop something into it which has

460
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 1: a lot of angle momentum but not a lot of mass,

461
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 1: and you can bring the angular momentum up past a

462
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:24,120
Speaker 1: certain level, then the equations predict that the event horizon

463
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 1: will shrink until eventually it hits the singularity and reveals

464
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 1: the singularity. Wait, what too? More energy makes the black

465
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 1: hole smaller? Isn't that weird? Doesn't usually more mass and

466
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 1: energy make the black hole bigger? Yeah? Exactly? How to

467
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 1: spinning it more? Make it small? What you need to

468
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 1: do is somehow get it to convert its existing mass

469
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 1: into spin. So it's not just about adding another object

470
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: which is going to add overall mass. You need to

471
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: somehow get it to convert its energy into spin. Because

472
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: the location of this event horizon depends on the spin

473
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 1: and on the mass, so you have to somehow do something,

474
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 1: and nobody knows how to do this, which is like

475
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 1: totally speculating. Somehow get this black hole to turn its

476
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: mass into spin. And if you do that, they think

477
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 1: the singularity will remain at the center, but the event

478
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,719
Speaker 1: horizon will essentially shrink because you're reducing the effective mass

479
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 1: by just turning it into England momentum. Oh wow, but

480
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: you would have to convert all of its mass into spin,

481
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,679
Speaker 1: right or just or some of it, just some of it.

482
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,880
Speaker 1: You need to cross some threshold. But if you read

483
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 1: the papers about how to do this, they say, like, physically,

484
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,359
Speaker 1: we don't think bus is possible. So it's sort of like, well,

485
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 1: the equations predict that if you violated this basic principle

486
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: then the event horizon would disappear. That doesn't mean it's possible.

487
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: It's just sort of like there's a region of theoretical

488
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 1: space there where maybe if you could fix one problem,

489
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 1: you might be able to get into this interesting region

490
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 1: where the event horizon becomes part of the singularity. Can

491
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: you maybe make a black hole and make it mostly

492
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 1: out of spin, you know, like if you take a

493
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: whole bunch of I don't know, fidget spinners and frisbees

494
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,640
Speaker 1: and tops, you know, and threw them out, spun them,

495
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: throw them all together to make a black hole. Would

496
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 1: that make a naked singularity that would still have more

497
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,439
Speaker 1: mass than angular momentum, and so it would be a

498
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 1: spinning black hole and it would have a ring singularity

499
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:12,679
Speaker 1: at the heart of it, but it would still have

500
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: an event horizon. So you need to somehow get a

501
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: black hole that has like more angular momentum than mass itself,

502
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: which is pretty hard to arrange and maybe impossible. All right,

503
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: So that's one possibility, doesn't seem very likely. What are

504
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 1: other ways we could maybe make a naked singularity. Another

505
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 1: way to maybe make a naked singularity is to find

506
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 1: a white hole. We talked about this also once on

507
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: the podcast. A white hole might be like the opposite

508
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: of a black hole. A black hole is a region

509
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 1: in space where if something falls in, it can't ever leave,

510
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: and a white hole is a region of space where

511
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 1: things can only leave right they can't enter. And so

512
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: a white hole in general relativity is sort of like

513
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: the time reversal of a black hole. Like take a

514
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 1: black hole as a star collapses and forms an event

515
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 1: horizon and things get sucked into it. A white hole

516
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 1: is like something that goes the opposite direction, like spews

517
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 1: stuff out and then eventually boom, A star appears. Interesting.

518
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: Now does it have a an event horizon like a

519
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: black hole or is there such a thing as that

520
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 1: the opposite of a event horizon. So it wouldn't have

521
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 1: an event horizon. It would just be like a point

522
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 1: in space where stuff is coming out of right, Like

523
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 1: things are just flying out of this white hole the

524
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: way like things fall into a black hole, things come

525
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 1: out of a white hole. And we sometimes think of

526
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: a white holes like the other end of a wormhole.

527
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: You have a black hole connected through space somehow be

528
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: a wormhole to a white hole and things that fall

529
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 1: into the black hole and come out of the white hole.

530
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 1: And so the white hole would be like a naked singularity,

531
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: be at this weird point in space where you know,

532
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: some of these metrics of spacetime become infinite, but not

533
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 1: surrounded by an event horizon. I mean you can see it.

534
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 1: Stuff is coming out of it at you. It's emitting light,

535
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 1: or old socks or typewriters or whatever is coming out

536
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 1: of this white hole. You can see those things, and

537
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 1: so you can observe it. And so in that sense,

538
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: it's a naked singularity because it's a singularity and it's

539
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: something you can actually look at. Right, it would just

540
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 1: look like a really bright pinpoint, right, like a star,

541
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: but really really small. Yeah, And it might look like

542
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 1: a bright pinpoint if it happens to be emitting gamma

543
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: radiation or whatever, but it might also just look dark

544
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: at some points if it's not giving off anything. You

545
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 1: can't predict what a white hole is going to give

546
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 1: out because it depends on what's inside the black hole

547
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: it's linked to, and that's not something we can know. Okay,

548
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: so that could also be a naked singularity. Are there

549
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: any other possibilities can you have? I don't know, like

550
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: an infinite charge somehow accumulated, or something else that doesn't

551
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: bend spacetime. Well, really, the only kinds of singularities we

552
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: can consider our gravitational ones, because everything else, like charge

553
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: and particles, these are governed by quantum theory, and quantum

554
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: theory prevents these kind of singularities by having uncertainty and

555
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: by having fluctuations from random particles. The reason for example,

556
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: an electron doesn't actually have negative infinite charge is because

557
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,959
Speaker 1: it creates this swarm of particles that surrounds it. And

558
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: so quantum mechanics doesn't really allow for singularities in the

559
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: same way. So they all have to be sort of

560
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: gravitational or like geometric. Singularities of space time have to

561
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: be about like the shape and structure of the universe.

562
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 1: And so, for example, the Big Bang was a singularity, right,

563
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: that's a timelike singularity. It is one that existed and

564
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: no longer exists at the moment in time when the

565
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: universe had essentially infinite density, and that was definitely naked

566
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 1: because if you were around at the Big Bang you

567
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: could have seen it. Yeah, I suppose. I don't know

568
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: what it's like to observe if you're inside and infinite

569
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: singularity of infinite density. I don't even know what that

570
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: really means. It's like staring at your own belly Patty.

571
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: It's like being inside an infinite belly button. And remember

572
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 1: that general relativity doesn't tell us what happens during a singularity.

573
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: General relativity tells us that, you know, space get denser

574
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: and denser and denser, or a curvature gets infinite, but

575
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: it breaks down at that point. You can't calculate with

576
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: general relativity and say, what would happen if I did this,

577
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: or if I had an eight ball flying through space

578
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: and it hit a singularity, what would happen? It just

579
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: cannot predict those things because general relativity breaks down when

580
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: the curvature becomes infinite. So we need some new theory,

581
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: something else to describe what would actually happen to physics

582
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: of what would happen in a singularity. Alright, let's talk

583
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: about whether or not naked singularities are real and if

584
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: we could see one, what would they even look like?

585
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: But first let's take another quick break. All right, we're

586
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: talking about naked singularities being free, being visible, but also

587
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: being almost infinite at the same time, and it sounds

588
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: like there are a couple of possibilities. White holes or

589
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: super spinning black holes are two possibilities. Daniel, you said

590
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: there's another kind that could be out there, like a

591
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: boundary point in space. Yeah. These are just points where

592
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 1: a path of a particle ends. And this one, to

593
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,479
Speaker 1: me is like the most fun because I feel like

594
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: we're sort of trapped in space like we're in this universe,

595
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: we're in space. We're trying to understand what are the

596
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: rules of this universe, but we're stuck sort of inside it,

597
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: and it's hard to get your mind around the universe

598
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: when you're looking at it from the inside. People are

599
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: always asking us, like what is space expanding into or

600
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: with outside of space? Because I think they're trying to

601
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: grapple with the notion of the whole universe and its rules,

602
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: and they want to do it by looking at it

603
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: from the outside. And so if you can find like

604
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: the edges of the universe, that gives you some sort

605
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,479
Speaker 1: of sense for like you know what the rules are,

606
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: what the boundary conditions are. And so this this idea

607
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: of a singularity is this like point in space. It's

608
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: like a point that's an edge right where a particle

609
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: flies in and just doesn't ever go anywhere else. It

610
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: doesn't leave not there anymore. It's just there is no

611
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: more space. So to me, this is one of the

612
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: most fun ideas because it's hardest to think about, but

613
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: also if you could actually see it, you'd be like, whoa,

614
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: what is this? There's like a wrinkle in space is

615
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: like a literal belly button in space? What is going on? Yeah,

616
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 1: it'd be like a prinkle, like a pinch in space. Yeah, exactly,

617
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: like a pinch in space. I would love to see

618
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: a pinch. But would it become a black hole though,

619
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: like when things get trapped inside of it? Well, it

620
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: depends on what made it right, Like, first of all,

621
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: there's nothing inside it. If we're talking about a boundary

622
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 1: point in space, the inside of the singularity is not

623
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: part of the universe, Like the particle just doesn't exist anymore,

624
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: Like it's gone from our universe, like it's gone. The

625
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: path just ends, right, Like you can think about particles

626
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: as having worldlines, like they move through space and time.

627
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: The singularity is a point where, like a worldline ends,

628
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: it doesn't exist anymore. It's not like in there and

629
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: you can't see it. It's just not anywhere anymore. Like,

630
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 1: so what would happen to the particle? It would bounce back,

631
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,719
Speaker 1: like it would have to back out, or would it

632
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,239
Speaker 1: really disappear from our universe? It would disappear or from

633
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: the universe. That's what it means for your world line

634
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: to end. In that second definition of a singularity as

635
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: a non extendable path, that's what a singularity is, a

636
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: point where a particle, if it hits it just doesn't

637
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: continue anymore in existing, which is really weird and hard

638
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: to think about. What happens to its energy? It just

639
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: it's energy disappears from the universe exactly. We talked about

640
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 1: in another episode recently about how general relativity doesn't require

641
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: that energy is conserved. It literally is like falling into

642
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: a hole. Yeah, but the question is can that thing

643
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: actually exist? And this is the kind of thing people

644
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: are trying to figure out, like our naked singularity is

645
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: real in the sense experimentally, like do they actually exist

646
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: out there in reality? Could we see them and study

647
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 1: them the way we can black holes? Or do they

648
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: even exist theoretically? Like can you construct the equation in

649
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: a way that predicts that they do exist? Whether or

650
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: not they actually do in reality is one question. Whether

651
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: we can make equations self consistent that describe them mathematically

652
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: is a second question, Right, Well, it seemed to work

653
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: for black hole holes, like general relativity predicted black holes

654
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 1: and they're sort of consistent and we've seen them, so

655
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: doesn't that answer the question? Doesn't that mean yes, that

656
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: we can't theoretically make these, except that we know that

657
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: general relatively breaks down at the singularity, so we don't

658
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: actually know if this is singularity there. Like we know

659
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: the black holes are real, yes, but you don't have

660
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 1: to have a singularity inside a black hole to have

661
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: a black hole, right, We don't know if there's actually

662
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 1: a singularity in there or not, or something else weird

663
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 1: is going on. We don't have a theory that describes

664
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,399
Speaker 1: correctly what happens at the center of a black hole.

665
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 1: So another theory, some quantum gravity theory like glue quantum

666
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,879
Speaker 1: gravity might give us a different description of some very

667
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,879
Speaker 1: dense mass that's bending space in a weird way that's

668
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: not a singularity. So we know that the Big Bang happened,

669
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: but we don't really understand what it was. And in

670
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: the same way, we know that black holes exist, but

671
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: we don't know what's inside them. So we don't actually

672
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: have hard proof that there are those gravitational singularities inside

673
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: a black hole, or we also and that proof that

674
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 1: they don't exist, right, because that's right. It could be

675
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: that quantum physics is wrong in general relativity does maybe

676
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 1: work at the center of a black hole. Well, it

677
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: could be that there's some kind of singularity at the

678
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 1: center of a black hole. But we know that general

679
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: relativity as it stands can't describe them. You know, it

680
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: just basically gives up. It fails there. And that's why

681
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 1: they're so fascinating because we'd love to see general relativity

682
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:25,399
Speaker 1: fail because how it failed, what actually happens there could

683
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,839
Speaker 1: give us a clue about how to fix it. That's

684
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,439
Speaker 1: why seeing a naked singularity would be so much fun,

685
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: because it would be clues to like ten Nobel Prizes

686
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 1: in an afternoon in a singular place, like an infinite

687
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: concentration of Nobel prices. Yeah, and one of the ways

688
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: that people explore this theoretically is they say, well, here's

689
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 1: a universe. Can I figure out how to make that universe? So,

690
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: for example, we just talked about having a hole in space,

691
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: a place where paths end, and general relativity tells us

692
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 1: that any configuration to space that smooth can exist, though

693
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 1: it's sometimes tricky to figure out, like how do you

694
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: arrange the mass to get that bending of space? And

695
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: so what people are doing now is trying to figure out,

696
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 1: like wealthy ioretically, can I construct a universe in which

697
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 1: I have a naked singularity. And they're doing all sorts

698
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,959
Speaker 1: of complex simulations, and they figured out ways to make

699
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: singularities happen in simulated universes, but not simulated universes like ours.

700
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 1: Simulated universes with like five dimensions instead of three dimensions,

701
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 1: or different dimensions that like roll up and bend Weirdly,

702
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 1: nobody succeeded in making a theoretical naked singularity in a

703
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 1: universe that looks like ours. I see, you need more dimensions,

704
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: You need like some extra juice, Yeah, exactly, because the

705
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: rules are different in other dimensions. Right, if you have

706
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 1: five dimensional space or nineteen dimensional space, and the way

707
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: space bends and twists and wiggles is totally different than

708
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 1: an our universe. And this has led people to wonder, like,

709
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: if it's so hard to make a naked singularity, maybe

710
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: they're just impossible. And so there was this idea in

711
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine by Roger Penrose. Recently when the Nobel

712
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 1: Prize for thinking deeply about singularities and black holes. It's

713
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 1: called the cosmic censorship conjecture, and it's the idea that

714
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 1: the universe will always hide a singularity, so no naked

715
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: singularities can exist because the universe will always find a

716
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 1: way to block you from seeing. There's a certain prudishness

717
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: to the universe, and that's because you know, anything that

718
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,359
Speaker 1: is singular would distort spacetime so much that you could

719
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: never see it. Is that kind of the idea. There

720
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: isn't really a firm idea. It's just like this idea

721
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: makes people uncomfortable, so maybe there's something in the universe

722
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 1: preventing it from happening. And it's very similar to the

723
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: idea people had about black holes. Like when people heard

724
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: about black holes originally they're like, that seems bonkers. I'm

725
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,399
Speaker 1: sure that that situation will never arise, or something about

726
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,919
Speaker 1: the universe will prevent it from happening, just the way

727
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,280
Speaker 1: that like, electrons are not singularities because quantum physics prevents

728
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: it from happening. There's something inherent. It's not like an accident,

729
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,439
Speaker 1: and it's not like a conspiracy. There's just something about

730
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: an electron and quantum physics that prevents that from happening.

731
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 1: So the ideas maybe there's something going on, but it's

732
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,760
Speaker 1: really just a conjecture. It's not like there's a good reason.

733
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: It's just like, boy, I kind of hope the universe

734
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: prevents this from happening. That was penn Rose's original idea.

735
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 1: Oh I see, it's like he didn't want there to

736
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,240
Speaker 1: be singularity. Yeah, you felt uncomfortable. He's like, this doesn't

737
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 1: seem right, and so there must be some reason why

738
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: they don't exist. And it sparked a lively debate in

739
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 1: the field. Since then, other giants of black Hole thought,

740
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,919
Speaker 1: Stephen Hawking and Kip Thorne and John Preskill were having

741
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 1: like a debate about whether naked singularities could exist, and

742
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,919
Speaker 1: they decided to make a bet. And so Hawking bet

743
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: Preskill and Thorn that naked singularities are impossible. But then

744
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: how would you settle the bet? You would have to

745
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: see one or not see one, which is you know

746
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: that could never happen. Yeah. Well, actually I think they

747
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 1: were even just wondering, like, theoretically, could you find a

748
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 1: solution to the Einstein equations? Could you describe a universe

749
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 1: theoretically that had a naked singularity in it and didn't

750
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: break any other rules? And a few years later some

751
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: guy in Vancouver came up with like one very specific,

752
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: crazy universe in which you could get a naked singularity,

753
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: and so Hawking was forced to concede the bet because

754
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: of this very specific exception that everybody agreed you could

755
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 1: never have in reality, and so he lost the bet.

756
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 1: But then they reformulated the bet, you know, removing this loophole. Oh,

757
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: I see, so you could have a singularity, just maybe

758
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 1: not in our universe. Yeah, exactly in our universe. It's

759
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: maybe impossible. To help, it's maybe impossible. But you know,

760
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 1: there's two ways to explore the universe. One is like

761
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 1: have an idea theoretically proved that it's possible theoretically, and

762
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 1: then go and look for it to see if your

763
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 1: idea is correct. And the other is to actually just

764
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 1: go out and look for the stuff. Like if we

765
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: saw a naked singularity, that would sort of settle a

766
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: question of whether they're possible theoretically, and then the theorists

767
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 1: would have some work to do to figure out how

768
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 1: to describe it and what does it mean. And so

769
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: maybe the more interesting thing is, like, let's just go

770
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: look for one. What would it look like? Right? Yeah,

771
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: I guess that's the last question I have here is,

772
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 1: you know, what would a naked s gularity look like?

773
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 1: Would it look naked. Would it look shiny, you know,

774
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 1: would it look like a black hole? Would it would

775
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 1: it just you know, look like a weird pension space.

776
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,760
Speaker 1: What should we be looking for? Yeah, well, people don't

777
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 1: really have a clear idea. There's lots of different ideas

778
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 1: about what a naked singularity would look like, because there

779
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 1: are different ideas for what a naked singularity would be.

780
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 1: For some people, it would look like nothing. It would

781
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: just look like a little hole in space, and the

782
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 1: only way to see it would be like to observe

783
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: particles disappearing as they pass into it, as for sort

784
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: of the boundary condition, and that'd be pretty tough. It

785
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 1: would be infinitely small too, write like, you know, it

786
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 1: would be maybe hard to see an electron like fly

787
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 1: right into it. Yeah, exactly, So that's pretty tough to

788
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: ever spot. Then there's the other kind of singularity, you know,

789
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: that one that's like maybe a white hole where things

790
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: can come out of it. These could produce massive amounts

791
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: of radiation. As you said earlier, a white hole could

792
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 1: be very very bright. They could be glowing. And some

793
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 1: people think that this could be the actual explanation for

794
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 1: some weird stuff we see in our universe. We see

795
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: things like gamma ray bursts and fast radio bursts, sources

796
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 1: of really intense radiation that currently do not have any

797
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 1: explanation in known astrophysics, and so it's always very tempting

798
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 1: to say, ah ha, here's this new weird thing I'm

799
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 1: thinking about. Maybe it explains this old weird thing we've

800
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 1: been seeing. So, you know, it's not a great argument,

801
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: but the idea is that a naked singularity might be

802
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: like a very very bright point, you might explain some

803
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: of the mysterious sources of energy, right that we see

804
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 1: in the universe. Yeah, exactly. You know, if we did

805
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 1: see one, to be an opportunity to study something new,

806
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 1: something we haven't ever seen before, something that follows the

807
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 1: rules of the universe, but maybe different rules than we're

808
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 1: familiar with, or follows them in a new way that

809
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 1: we weren't aware it was possible, And that's a great

810
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: opportunity to figure out, like, what are the underlying rules?

811
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,359
Speaker 1: How does this universe actually work? Yeah, it'd be great

812
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 1: to see one because it would tell us a lot

813
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 1: about general relativity and quantum physics and help us kind

814
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,919
Speaker 1: of figure out what's going on with the tool yeah,

815
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 1: And just like the belly button tells you about where

816
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 1: you came from, it could tell us about the origins

817
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 1: of the Big Bang. You know, one of the most

818
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,479
Speaker 1: famous singularities in history, of course, is the Big Bang.

819
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: We think that the universe probably had this moment of

820
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,919
Speaker 1: infinite density, but it's not something that we understand even theoretically,

821
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: like we can't calculate what caused it or calculate what

822
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 1: happens during the singularity. So being able to see one

823
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,879
Speaker 1: and study it would really give us a handle on that,

824
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: and it might also really help us think about future singularities.

825
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 1: Future singularities might exist like the Big Crunch, you know,

826
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 1: we could be heading for a new singular right yeah,

827
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,839
Speaker 1: but not for a while though, right not until after

828
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 1: this podcast drops at the very least, so I have

829
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 1: time to clean my belly button. Yes, you definitely do.

830
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:43,840
Speaker 1: The idea there is that the universe could slow down

831
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 1: its acceleration and turn around and collapse back into a

832
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 1: tiny point. So there might be a new singularity in

833
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 1: our future. And you know, there are other kinds of singularities,

834
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 1: you know, Singularities are cases where things go infinite. So

835
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 1: another potential future for the universe is something we all

836
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,240
Speaker 1: the big Rip, where the acceleration of the universe doesn't

837
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: slow down, but it continues and accelerates and eventually goes

838
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,840
Speaker 1: to infinity, and that would also be a singularity. Be

839
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,360
Speaker 1: the other kind of singularity with the universe is torn

840
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 1: apart at infinite sping, and then the whole universe would

841
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:17,800
Speaker 1: be a singularity. And then the whole universe would be

842
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: a singularity, just like if we had a big crunch,

843
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 1: you would have the whole universe as a singularity. That

844
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 1: would be infinite density. The big Rip would be a

845
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 1: singularity of infinitely accelerating expansion. Man. That would be like

846
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 1: the universe ripping out its clothes and saying I have

847
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 1: my naked singularity exactly, And neither is one that we

848
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: want to experience. But maybe to get a better handle

849
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 1: on what that would be like and when it might happen,

850
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: it would be great to spot the naked singularity floating

851
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: out there in space so we could study it and

852
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: get a handle on how this universe works. All right, well,

853
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: we should all keep an eye out for naked singularity.

854
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 1: Let us know if you see a belly button floating

855
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: in space, shiny one you know, stay away from the

856
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 1: dark ones. All right, Well that was pretty you staying.

857
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 1: I feel like I learned a lot about nakedness and

858
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,879
Speaker 1: singular poison space. Yeah, alright, So maybe the next time

859
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Speaker 1: you look out into space, think about what could be

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Speaker 1: out there hiding, what could maybe be right in front

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Speaker 1: of you. There could be singularities and singular things and

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Speaker 1: events in space right in front of our noses. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for joining us, see you next time. Thanks for listening,

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Speaker 1: and remember that Daniel and Jorge explained. The Universe is

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Speaker 1: a production at I Heart Radio. For more podcast from

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Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio Apple Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.