1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. As all of you 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: probably know, this is an election year, and during an 3 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:11,120 Speaker 1: election year, we hear a lot about one thing. Who 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: is going to win the black vote? Is Trump gaining voters, 5 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: is Biden losing voters? Will swing states go red this year? 6 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: Or has some rhetoric on the right continued to drive 7 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 1: inner city black voters to the left. But the real 8 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: question is in those black communities that need a revival, 9 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:33,279 Speaker 1: do political candidates from either side truly understand what that 10 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: looks like. In a nation that seems to have become 11 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: hyper focused on race and how to combat racism, have 12 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: we actually left some of our most amazing communities behind? 13 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: Should race factor into politics or should the focus beyond 14 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 1: building community outside of the right or the left? Some 15 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: say the United States is too burdened by the sins 16 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: of the past, and then others would tell you the 17 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: country has been washed clean of our failures. But is 18 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: it more complicated than that. I'm pleased to be joined 19 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: by a man who has lived through some of the 20 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:09,479 Speaker 1: ugliest times in our nation's history and still dedicated his 21 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: life to making it better for those in need. Bob 22 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: Woodson is the founder and president of the Woodson Center 23 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: seventeen seventy six units and Voices of Black Mothers United, 24 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: and is the author of Red, White and Black, Rescuing 25 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 1: American History from Revisionists and Erased Hustlers. Mister Woodson, it's 26 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: so nice to have you with me. 27 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 2: Thank you for an introduction. 28 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: Absolutely, just before we got on, we were talking about 29 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: your life experience and the reason I think your life 30 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: experience is so valuable to us. I was reading about 31 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: you coming from Philadelphia and then enlisting, and when you 32 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: went down South, having the experience of going to get 33 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: in a cab and not realizing how deep segregation was 34 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: in the South, and that that feeling of being told 35 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: you could get in the cab with a white man, 36 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: one of your white friends. He could either get in, 37 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: You could either get in, but you couldn't ride together. 38 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: Tell us about how that led to where you are 39 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: today and what you've seen in this country, because the 40 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: way you talk about it is just so inspiring, and 41 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: I feel like this is a moment when we need 42 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 1: to bring that back. 43 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much. As I said, I was 44 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 2: born during the Depression in nineteen thirty seven and a 45 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 2: low income black poor neighborhood in Philadelphia. But what was 46 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 2: good about it. Our street was like a small village. 47 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,399 Speaker 2: Ninety probably five percent of the households had a man 48 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:45,239 Speaker 2: and a woman raising children. All the kids could read. 49 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 2: Never elderly people could walk safely in those communities without 50 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 2: fear of being assaulted by their grandchildren. I never heard 51 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 2: of gunfire. There were black stores on each corner. They 52 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 2: didn't have iron gate in front of their stores because 53 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 2: I never heard of a store being robbed, never heard 54 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 2: of a child being shot to death in their crypt 55 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 2: the way we have over the last twenty years. And 56 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 2: so you know, deprivation has never resulted in being deprived. 57 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 2: You can be deprived, but not depraved. And so unfortunately, 58 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 2: too many people make a link between poverty and pathology, 59 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 2: but our neighborhood proved that is not the case. But 60 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 2: I was born my mother. I was youngest of five children. 61 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 2: My mother had a fifth grade education. My dad died 62 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 2: when I was nine, so leaving her with five children 63 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 2: to raise fifth grade education. It meant that I had 64 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 2: to rely more on my peers for support than I 65 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 2: did my blood family. And that's why I guess I 66 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 2: appreciate why kids join gangs. It isn't your organization is 67 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 2: troubling to criminal behavior. But my mother equipped me with 68 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 2: the kind of values that I chose good friends, and 69 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 2: so there are still four of us left today and 70 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 2: we maintained our friendship. But they were year older than 71 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 2: I was, and so when they graduated high school, I 72 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 2: was left unaffiliated. And so I dropped out of high 73 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 2: school and went into the military. The best thing that 74 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,359 Speaker 2: ever happened to me because it's the first time I 75 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 2: left Philadelphia and realized that black people were not a majority. 76 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's I mean, it's interesting because you grow 77 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: up with what you know. 78 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, you can read everything about demographics, but until you 79 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 2: confront the reality of getting off of a bus and 80 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 2: seeing hundreds of people pour off buses. All of you 81 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 2: are young people enlisting, being trained at the Air Force. 82 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 2: And so, like you say, after basic training, I went 83 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 2: to Mississippi and John Hornack, a Polish friend of mine. 84 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 2: We got in the bus a taxi cab to go 85 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 2: off the bus in town and have a beard the 86 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 2: way we used to in New York. And the cab 87 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 2: driver when we got outside the gates, he said, I 88 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 2: can take you or him, but not both of you. 89 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 1: And that was a legal reason, right, I mean, this 90 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:16,679 Speaker 1: was actually the law. 91 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 2: This was legal segregation. And there were big signs. It 92 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 2: says color drinking foundain a little little rickety fountain, and 93 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 2: I saw this, and you knew where to go. Whenever 94 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 2: you went into New Orleans or someplace, you always headed 95 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 2: to the black neighborhoods. So John and I could no 96 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 2: longer socialize together. And so that separated whites and blacks 97 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 2: in terms of friendships. But in the military, thank god, 98 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 2: after two years of going with young I was in 99 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 2: the space program, flew Earth satellite attempts, missile test control. 100 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 2: But when I got out of the military, I mean, 101 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 2: I took some courses at Universe Miami and I have 102 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 2: twelve twelve credits at a time when I could not 103 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 2: walk on the campus. 104 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 1: Wow. Because and this is something that I think we 105 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: just don't under you know, kids today just don't understand 106 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,919 Speaker 1: what that's like. And so I see in some cases 107 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: where we want to separate things again. And I think 108 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: that's devastating because I feel like when I grew up 109 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:32,919 Speaker 1: in the eighties and nineties, there was a real coming together. 110 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 1: But that seems to be coming a part again. 111 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 2: It is, but it's being fashioned not by a majority 112 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 2: of people. My friend, a young scholar, Dialano Squires, framed 113 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 2: it dutifully. He said, this current tribal narrative is being 114 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 2: driven by a small group of elite, guilty whites who 115 00:06:55,600 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 2: are seeking absolutions from crimes they never committed. Group of 116 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 2: elite blacks who are seeking absolution from injustices. They never suffered. 117 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 2: These young people, they never suffered under segregation the way 118 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 2: my generation has done. You know, they don't know what 119 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 2: that's like, right, And so them to sound the actors 120 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 2: if they are more aggrieved than I was when I 121 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 2: suffered directly. I went to jail twice in Florida because 122 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 2: of issues I raised on the base, and so I 123 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 2: don't want to go into all that detail. But it's 124 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 2: still never left me bitter, and so. 125 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: That's what I was telling you. Also, as I when 126 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: I was in college, I took several of our African 127 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: American studies classes, and I am a big proponent of 128 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: learning that history in the United States because what you 129 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: see when you read the books of people who lived 130 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: through slavery, people who who actually experience what you're talking about, 131 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: the stories are shockingly positive about how they overcame those 132 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: feelings of being treated so poorly because of the communities 133 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: that came about, that, the food that they circled around, 134 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: the songs that just the culture that became a part 135 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: of how to still find joy in these horrible situations. 136 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: And I feel like we've gotten away from searching for joy. 137 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 2: It really it is. And so but it's important because 138 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 2: I always find it a little amusing that the angriest 139 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 2: people are the ones who suffered the least, you know, 140 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 2: And I think that anger and resentment becomes a substitute 141 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 2: for positive action to improve the conditions of people. 142 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: That's interesting, I can see that. 143 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 2: So when I got out of the military and I 144 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 2: went to a small black college, thank god I didn't 145 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 2: have affirmative action at the time, because I had not 146 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 2: read a book from cover to cover. My SAT scores 147 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 2: were in the tank. Was admitted on the year's academic 148 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 2: probation along with twelve other veterans, and I went to 149 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 2: a cheney of small black college, and we took twelve 150 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 2: hours because we had to work eight hours a day 151 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 2: and drive sixty miles to and from work. Wow. And 152 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 2: so what they did, though, was prepare us to learn 153 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 2: how to study. And it was. But if I had 154 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 2: been put in the University of Pennsylvania an affirmative action, 155 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 2: I would have struggled and stayed behind. But thank god 156 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 2: I didn't have affirmative action and I had to work hard. 157 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 2: And when I graduated, I got a full scholarship to 158 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 2: the University of penn School to Social Work because of 159 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 2: the merit that I expressed, because I learned how to 160 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 2: study and apply myself. 161 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting because we have a problem across 162 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: the state of Michigan with schools. I mean, our kids, 163 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: no matter what community are coming from, our schools are 164 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: behind hid the rest of the country. And they've just 165 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:05,559 Speaker 1: come out with this plan to make community college free 166 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: for everyone. But this has been happening in one of 167 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: our communities already, and they said that what happened is 168 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: these kids actually came out of the public school they 169 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: didn't learn enough in Kalamazoo, and then they went to 170 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: free community college and it was even more devastating for 171 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: them because once they got there, there was no one 172 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: there to say, hey, this is how you study, this 173 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: is how you learned. They didn't have the skills, So 174 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: what you do in communities, I think is so powerful. 175 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:37,439 Speaker 1: I read something where you said that children will seek 176 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: out a father, a father figure if they don't have one, 177 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: and I noticed what you said about you can see 178 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: how people got involved in gangs because when there's not 179 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: a father, they're looking for someone to lead them. But 180 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: you create a system where there is that influence, a 181 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: big brother type influence, a fatherly influence, where students and children, 182 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: no matter where they're from, they have somebody's cheering them on. 183 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 1: I think that's what we need today. 184 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 2: It really does, you know, when like you say that 185 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,199 Speaker 2: one of the worst things you can do is give 186 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 2: children or anyone a convenient excuse for failure. One of 187 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 2: the biggest lies that have been perpetrated on the American 188 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 2: public is that the problems of black education today is 189 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 2: somehow the result of a legacy of slavery and Jim Crow. 190 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 2: That is just not true. It is, you know. And 191 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 2: so in our book Red, White, and Black, we actually 192 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 2: go back and look at what is our history and 193 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 2: education and how did we perform under segregation, And if 194 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 2: you will go in our essays, we talk about at 195 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 2: the end of slavery, only five or six percent of 196 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 2: Blacks were literate, but in less than forty years that 197 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 2: number t climb to seventy five percent. Why because of 198 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 2: our Sabers schools. The churches set up schools to teach me. 199 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 2: Nowhere in the history of the world did the people 200 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 2: move from a five percent literacy rate to a seventy 201 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 2: five percent in less than fifty years. When we were 202 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 2: denied access to schools. In the South, Julius Rosenwal, the 203 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 2: white CEO of Sears, collaborated with Booker T. Washington to 204 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 2: in nineteen oh one, I mean nineteen o nine to 205 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 2: establish the Booker T. Rosenwall Schools. Rosenwall put up four 206 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 2: million dollars the black community rate matched it with four 207 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 2: point eight billings selling chicken dinners and whatnot. They built 208 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 2: five thousand schools throughout the South, and in nineteen twenty 209 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 2: and nineteen forty the education gap in the South Foot 210 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 2: between blacks and whites was eighth grade for white's fifth 211 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 2: grade for blacks, but in less than forty in less 212 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 2: than twenty years, that gap closed within six months, and 213 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 2: blacks were attending these Rosenwall schools had half the budgets 214 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 2: of the white schools, used textbooks and yet even in 215 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 2: the face of these obstacles, we closed the gap. Within 216 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 2: six months. There were five black high schools in New York, Baltimore, Washington, Atlanta, 217 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 2: and New Orleans. Same thing that had crumbling buildings, used textbooks, 218 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,439 Speaker 2: half the budgets. But every one of those black schools 219 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 2: out tested every white school in those cities. So our 220 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 2: young people should be inspired by what we did against 221 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 2: the odds. 222 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 223 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: a Tutor Dixon podcast. I mean, when I hear these 224 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: stories of growth and community, I wonder how we got 225 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: to this point where the black community in general became 226 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: this political talking point. And I don't think that I 227 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: will say, I'll pick on both sides here. I don't 228 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 1: think either side fully understands what our black communities need 229 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: that do need. And I mean, now, even if I 230 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: look at the black community in Detroit, it is very 231 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: hard to be successful in Detroit right now because there 232 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: are policies that keep families down. There are policies that 233 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: keep people from achieving because of extra taxes and extra 234 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: paperwork and all of this. And so you talk about 235 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: the community you grew up in and saying there were 236 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: shops on every corner. Everybody felt safe. You could go 237 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: in and you could go to the neighbor's house and 238 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: borrow sugar. You could go to the store by yourself. 239 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: Where did we go wrong? And why do we think 240 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: that this is a political talking point instead of a 241 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: community talking point? Now? And I will say, I think 242 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: that we've gotten this wrong in a couple of different 243 00:14:55,320 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: areas of community, whether it is community on the value 244 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: of life or community on the value of family. But 245 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: we keep making it political and it's not political. 246 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 2: It's not. First of all, one of the reasons why 247 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 2: the black community was able to achieve success in the 248 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 2: face of our position is because of the strength of 249 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 2: its faith and its family. One of our scholars did 250 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 2: the study of what was the state of marriage on 251 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 2: six major plantations following slavery. Seventy five percent of slave 252 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 2: families had a man and a woman raising children. The 253 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 2: nuclear family continued for one hundred years after slavery. Thomas 254 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 2: Soul in his study says that every generation after slavery, 255 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 2: Blacks progressed in every area home ownership, wealth accumulation, education, 256 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 2: family stability, and in fact, between nineteen thirty and nineteen 257 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 2: forty during the Depression, when racism was enshrined in law. 258 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 2: The black community have the highest marriage rate of any 259 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 2: group in society. Under seventeen percent were born out of wedlock, 260 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 2: That's what. But all of that changed in the sixties, 261 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 2: when those institutions that built railroads built one hundred hotels 262 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 2: and colleges, those institutions within the black community. For instance, 263 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 2: in Chicago, in the Bronsville section in nineteen nineteen, there 264 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 2: were seven hundred and thirty one black owned businesses, one 265 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 2: hundred million in real estate assets just in there. In 266 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 2: Detroit it was the black Bottom that was your black 267 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 2: wall suite in Detroit. And so, but all of this 268 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 2: stopped in the sixties. What racism couldn't could not destroy, 269 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 2: what night rides of the Klan could not destroy. Federal 270 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 2: policies with the poverty programs? Did it replaced all those 271 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 2: institutions with poverty programs and professionals? 272 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: What do you mean by that? I mean, I've heard 273 00:16:56,200 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: these discussions of you know, there were there were policies 274 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: in place that kept people from wanting to get married 275 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: and sort of started to destroy the family. But do 276 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 1: you think that that was malicious intent or do you 277 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,400 Speaker 1: think that this just was a consequence that was unforeseen. 278 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 2: There's something worse than malicious intent. It is folly. Foolishness 279 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 2: can be more lethal than mallous. Dietrich Vondhapper talks about 280 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 2: that when has let us from prison. He said, one 281 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 2: of the most difficult You can challenge malice with violence, 282 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 2: but folly. There is no defense against folly. When someone 283 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 2: thinks they're doing something to help you, when they're destroying 284 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 2: you with the helping hand. I tell people I'd rather 285 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 2: be hated than patronized and treated like an impotent child. 286 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 2: And that's how the black community start to get treated 287 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 2: in the sixties. Well, they're not responsible in fact of 288 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 2: Cloward and Pivot. These scholars liberals, scholars at Columbia School 289 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 2: of Social Work said, what we need to do is 290 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 2: move towards socialism, and the way you do that is 291 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 2: separate work from income. If that's what we did with 292 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 2: the welfare system. And if you do that, it means 293 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 2: that fathers will become irrelevant, drop out rates will increase more, 294 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 2: and so they encourage blacks who enter the welfare. Welfare 295 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,479 Speaker 2: used to be stigmatized in the black community prior to 296 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 2: the sixties. Interesting, they removed the stigmatization. And I don't 297 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 2: have time to unpack it all, but I can tell 298 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 2: you what happened was there was a cultural split, and 299 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 2: and what happened was the government came in and reinforced 300 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 2: the split by making it more generous to be on welfare, 301 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 2: So more blacks entered the welfare system. In the early seventies, 302 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 2: millions entered the system at with the result that this 303 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 2: New York city went bankrupt because of it. 304 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 1: Well, we've seen this increase in crime in these cities. 305 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 1: We've seen it in Chicago, We've seen it in New York, 306 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,120 Speaker 1: We've seen it in Detroit. We've seen this constant increase 307 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: in crime. Obviously, that's a big discussion. And you probably 308 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: don't remember. You and I talked years ago about this 309 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 1: as we were seeing it happen years ago, and I remember, 310 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: I will never forget at the time, you said, why 311 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:35,160 Speaker 1: would you think that those communities would want anything different 312 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: than the community you live in? Public safety and support 313 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: for family. And we've been able to go into communities 314 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: and create that and bring those communities back. And I 315 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 1: just thought to myself, how do we do it? How 316 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 1: can we help? What can we do to bring that 317 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: back and not look like we're like, oh, we're going 318 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 1: to help here, but really, how do you do it? Well? 319 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 2: The way you do it, first of all, is is 320 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 2: we have to push back. First of all, the politics 321 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 2: of left and right are totally irrelevant. You can go 322 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 2: into these neighborhoods, you can't tell which political party or 323 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 2: ideologies and police. Blacks used to be considered property by 324 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 2: slave owners. They're considered pawns by progressives, political pawns as 325 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 2: long as they vote the right way. The question is, 326 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 2: if race were the issue, why are blacks have they have? 327 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 2: They failed for the last fifty years in cities run 328 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 2: by their own people. So it's not the race or 329 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 2: sex of the ruler. It's the rules of the game. 330 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 2: And if you side with teachers' unions against the parents 331 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 2: or inn then the parents, the parents will lose. And 332 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,919 Speaker 2: so what we're doing at the Witching Center is go 333 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 2: back and looking at how we were able to achieve 334 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 2: against the odds. So we go into low income neighborhoods, 335 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 2: and we don't do pathology studies. If you say seventy 336 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 2: percent of the households or raising children that are dropping 337 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,639 Speaker 2: out of school or in jail, it means thirty percent 338 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 2: or not or what's going on in that thirty percent? 339 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,400 Speaker 2: And we go in and we find out these are 340 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 2: the social entrepreneurs that Joseph. These are people who have 341 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 2: are applying old values to a new vision. And so 342 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 2: we provide money and assistance. So what works in the 343 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 2: thirty percent can be shared with the seventy percent, and 344 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 2: as a consequence, we have seen dramatic changes occur within 345 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 2: those communities when we provide young people with substitutes for parents, 346 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 2: in other words, we need surrogate parenting. We're supporting a 347 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 2: school called a piney Wood Day Schools, a black a 348 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 2: residential boarding school that's been around for one hundred and 349 00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 2: fifteen years. They have mandatory chapel, mandatory work. All the 350 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 2: kids are from challenge neighborhoods, but ninety six percent of 351 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 2: them go on to college or post secondary education. So 352 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 2: it's not the children, it's when you put them in 353 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 2: a supportive environment where there is love. But you're not 354 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 2: going to get there by turning to white people and say, well, 355 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 2: if we're going to spend eight billion dollars on DEI programs, 356 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 2: what the hell's that got to do with solving those problems. 357 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, those little kids that need someone right then and 358 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 1: there that's not going to fix what's happening throughout their childhood, 359 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: that is preventing. You know. It's funny because you talk 360 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: about this, and as I was campaigning and learning about 361 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: the different communities in the state of Michigan, there were 362 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 1: some of our communities that were in need where people 363 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: would say, well, you don't understand. The parents have never 364 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: had parents. So we're talking about generations that have been 365 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: really on their own raising themselves, and you lose You 366 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: just lose a lot when you don't have a mom 367 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: or a dad who are there. And these are in 368 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: some cases parents now who raised their own parents because 369 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,199 Speaker 1: their own parents were either gone or on drugs or 370 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: not around they and they don't know how to raise 371 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: their own child because they were too busy trying to 372 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 1: figure out how to keep their parents there. And so 373 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,880 Speaker 1: I think that that's something that we think there's some 374 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,679 Speaker 1: great answer. I have the answer on this side, I 375 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: have the answer on that side, and it's just hard 376 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 1: work of bringing community together. And really, I mean, this 377 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: is what we've always thought that the church was for, 378 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 1: but we've devalued life so much. I mean, you were 379 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: talking recently about crime and suicide increasing as well, and 380 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: you made a statement, if you devalue your life, you'll 381 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: either take your own or someone else's. And I think 382 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: that's a real problem that we see regardless of community now, 383 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: is that we've seen so many suicides and homicides. It's 384 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,959 Speaker 1: just increasing every year, and it's really taking time away 385 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:12,400 Speaker 1: to be a family. 386 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:18,360 Speaker 2: Well, that's because we have to deracialize race. I tell 387 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 2: black audiences all the time, stop whining about white folks. 388 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 2: Getting white people to be less racist does not make 389 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 2: you more safe. And so we all need to recognize 390 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 2: that the biggest crisis face in this country is the 391 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 2: moral and spiritual free fall that is consuming rich white 392 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:42,159 Speaker 2: kids in Silicon Valley, where the suicide rate for teens 393 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 2: is six times a national average. Low income whites and 394 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 2: Appalachia dying from prescription drugs. Inner city kids are dying 395 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 2: from homicide. What the Woodson Center does with his Voice 396 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 2: of Black Mothers United, we brought moms together from each 397 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 2: of those two of those other groups what we call 398 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 2: the Mother's CONSORTI, and for three days they came together 399 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 2: to find common ground to address this whole that's in 400 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 2: the heart of our children, that there's a when you 401 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 2: lack content or meaning to your life, Like I said, 402 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 2: you'll need to take yours of someone else's. Well, you're 403 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,400 Speaker 2: not going to find meaning by harping on our racial 404 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 2: differences or who's an oppressor. If we constantly bombard our children, 405 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:34,880 Speaker 2: white and black with messages that you're that you are 406 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 2: a victim or a villain, after a while, they begin 407 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 2: to perhaps believe that they are unworthy, and so it's 408 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 2: important to stop this negative messaging. We need to set 409 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 2: aside race and come together, unite in trying to find 410 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 2: content and meaning. There are people in these low income 411 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 2: neighborhoods who are called antibodies. Those are the the thirty 412 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 2: percent of the households that are successfully raising children in 413 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 2: these toxic environments. We need to find out what the 414 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 2: magic sauces that enable them to thrive in that same environment, 415 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:23,360 Speaker 2: and then we need to make more investments. Rather than 416 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:28,879 Speaker 2: offer free courses in the constitution, we need to begin 417 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 2: to offer support to those institutions that are demonstrating by 418 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 2: their actions, the validity of our founding value. 419 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 420 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:45,360 Speaker 1: a Tutor Dixon podcast. Well, it seems like a lot 421 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 1: of this happens outside of government. It's organizations like yours 422 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: that come in and show love. It's not this is 423 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,640 Speaker 1: what I can offer you, this is how we can 424 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: come together and do this together. But I do think 425 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 1: that there has been a major focus on this country 426 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 1: is racist and focused on being stuck in that as 427 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: you would say that crucifixion and not getting to the 428 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:14,920 Speaker 1: resurrection and not getting back to celebrating how far we've come. 429 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 1: And I didn't even notice how bad it was until 430 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: my daughter came home from high school on Martin Luther 431 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: King Day or just after they'd been talking about racism, 432 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: and she said to me, and I had somebody that 433 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: I work with on the phone in the car, and 434 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: she said, Man, when you guys were young, racism must 435 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:39,879 Speaker 1: have been so bad. And it struck me and I said, actually, 436 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 1: you know, I grew up in Chicago, and I think 437 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,679 Speaker 1: it was really a time when no one talked about that, 438 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: like we didn't really see it like you do. Now 439 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: we talk about it so much. And I don't know 440 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: from my perspective, was it different in the nineties that 441 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: it was getting better and we didn't have to focus 442 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: on it so much, or was I n to the 443 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: fact that it was so bad. I didn't know how 444 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: to answer her. 445 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,120 Speaker 2: Well, one of the reasons why, I mean, you've got 446 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 2: a race reasons industry. You have a small group of people, 447 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 2: Like I said, you know, if, in fact, I think 448 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 2: I have become a self certified racial exorcist, all these 449 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 2: guilty fights for the writing checks, to these race hustlers, 450 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,679 Speaker 2: to to you know, I'm going to I'm going to 451 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 2: exercise racism and guilt, the guilt for slavery and Jim Crow. 452 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 2: You know you are after this date, Bob Wilson has 453 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 2: absolved me from that and now it's hecoritized. Well, perhaps 454 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 2: that will help. 455 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: So let me ask you something else. Because you were 456 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: involved in the civil rights movement. You knew Martin Luther 457 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: King Junior. You've heard some people come out and now 458 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: there's this group that wants to say, well, he's the 459 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: reason for affirmative action, he's the reason for DEI and 460 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: I've been very outspoken about not accepting that statement and 461 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: saying that is not true. Tell us your perspective on that. 462 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 2: The worst thing in the world is to define to 463 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 2: say that you're that you don't have agency, that you 464 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 2: cannot become agents of your own uplift. Doctor King said 465 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 2: that what we are seeking as opportunity to compete. He 466 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 2: didn't say, give us an equal place at the table. 467 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 2: So no. In fact, we tell the story of the 468 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 2: Golden Thirteen. All your listeners should read about the Golden Thirteen. 469 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 2: In nineteen forty three real quick, there were no black 470 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 2: naval officers, so Ellen Roosevelt persuaded her husband to train them. 471 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 2: So the Navy said, they're going to change sixteen black 472 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 2: men with college education to be naval officers, but we're 473 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 2: going to give them in eight weeks what we give 474 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 2: white cadets in sixteen weeks, so they'll wash out. When 475 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 2: these brothers found out about it, they covered the windows 476 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 2: of their barracks and stayed up and studied all night. 477 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 2: And when they were tested, they scored in the ninetieth percentile. 478 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 2: And then when they said, well, they cheated, so they 479 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 2: we tested them individually. They got on an early ninety 480 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:17,719 Speaker 2: third percentile. They eventually commissioned thirteen of them. That's why 481 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 2: they called the Golden Thirteen. That test score is still 482 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 2: the highest ever achieved at the Naval Training Academy. These 483 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 2: are the stories we ought to be telling in defense 484 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 2: of competence versus affirmative action. 485 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: I mean, these are biblical. This is like Daniel refusing 486 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: to eat the meat and say no, I'm going to 487 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: stick to my diet and being the strongest and the 488 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 1: most impressive specimen of man. You know, this is these 489 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: are biblical stories of coming together and overcoming obstacles. And 490 00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: that's what I that's when we started this, That's exactly 491 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: what I wanted people to hear. Was there as a 492 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: community in our country that has seen immense struggle and 493 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: immense pain has shown that they can overachieve in the 494 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: face of adversity, and we should celebrate those moments absolutely. 495 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 2: One final one, if I could, yeah back, there was 496 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 2: a man, Elijah McCoy, who was born of the fugitive 497 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 2: slave parents, and they took him to Counterada and he 498 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 2: got a degree, and he went to Scotland too and studied. 499 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 2: But he had a degree in engineering. So when he 500 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 2: came back to the rail yards in Chicago in eighteen 501 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 2: forty eight and sought a job, they gave him the 502 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 2: most dangerous one because of his color, and that is 503 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 2: oiling the wheels on the trains. Well, he used his 504 00:31:53,760 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 2: ingenuity to build a machine that would automatically oil the wheels, 505 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 2: and so the whole rail system was able to travel 506 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 2: at a faster speed, and people he became. He was 507 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 2: the Inventors Hall of Fame. He's in it. He says. 508 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 2: People tried to develop knockoffs, but the owners of the 509 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 2: railroad said, no, we want the real McCoy. 510 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 1: That's where we got that. Yes, I love it. What 511 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 1: an amazing McCoy. 512 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 2: So that was synonymous with excellence. Those are the kind 513 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 2: of stories that black and white children need to study. 514 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 2: Yes I could. I could sit here for the next 515 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 2: hour and just reel off. If you go to our 516 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 2: website Woodson Center and download our book, I'll go on Amazon, Red, White, 517 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 2: and Black. There will be other stories like that in there. 518 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: I encourage people to do that because, like I said, 519 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: that's been some of the Those have been some of 520 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 1: the richest stories that I've heard about our history and 521 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: the overcoming and the community. And like I said, there's 522 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: a difference between happiness and joy, and you can find 523 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 1: joy even in the darkest of times, and that joy 524 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: is what propelled people into a totally like you talk 525 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: about going from what six percent literacy to seventy five 526 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 1: that came from joy and love. 527 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 2: It really did, and they also noticed the difference between 528 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 2: success and significance. You know, success is what you do 529 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 2: for yourself. 530 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: I love it well. You you have done great things 531 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: for this country, and I'm so glad that you joined 532 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: me today because I've always enjoyed our conversations and I 533 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 1: just knew that people would want to hear this. So 534 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: Bob Woodson, thank you so much for being on. 535 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 2: Thank you for the opportunity. I really enjoyed our conversation. 536 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 1: Me too, and thank you thank you all for joining 537 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: us on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. As always, for this 538 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: episode and others, you can go to tutordisonpodcast dot com 539 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 1: and subscribe right there, or head over to the iHeartRadio app, 540 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and join 541 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 1: us next time on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Have a 542 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,760 Speaker 1: blessed day.