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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. Hello everyone, Molly here, Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the fourth and final installment of the holiday reruns here

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Speaker 1: on Weird Little Guys. Instead of picking two random reruns

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Speaker 1: for the weeks of Christmas and New Year's I've used

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Speaker 1: this opportunity to run my favorite mini series of twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five, the eight episodes I wrote back in the

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Speaker 1: spring about the international networks of right wing extremists who

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Speaker 1: were trying to hold onto apartheid in South Africa. Last week,

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Speaker 1: episodes one and two ran on Tuesday, episodes three and

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Speaker 1: four on the Thursday, and episodes five and six ran

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Speaker 1: on Tuesday, which makes this episodes seven and eight of

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Speaker 1: the series. Blood River originally ran on April seventeenth, and

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Speaker 1: Mission South Africa followed on May first. There was kind

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Speaker 1: of a ninth episode in the series, but it was

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Speaker 1: an afterthought and I didn't include it here. But when

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Speaker 1: I got back from my honeymoon a few weeks after

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Speaker 1: these episodes came out, I chased down one more loose end,

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Speaker 1: the American arms dealer who got in trouble for smuggling

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Speaker 1: guns to the groups we've been talking about in these episodes.

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Speaker 1: I just checked back in on him and he is

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Speaker 1: still suing that All you Can Eat Sushi Buffet in

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Speaker 1: Portland for asking him and his Doberman to leave the

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Speaker 1: restaurant after the dog put her nose in a chafing

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Speaker 1: dish of spring rolls. A bit of an anticlimactic retirement

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Speaker 1: for a guy who used to run guns for fourig

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Speaker 1: Nazi groups. I really think I could have just written

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Speaker 1: about this all year, just fifty episodes about the white

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Speaker 1: supremacists all over the world who couldn't let go of apartheid.

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Speaker 1: It turned out there was a lot more going on

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Speaker 1: there than I could have imagined. But this is where

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Speaker 1: I left it in May, and the final episode is

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Speaker 1: the one most badly in need of an update because

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Speaker 1: it ended in the present tense. The story was still

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Speaker 1: evolving as I was writing it, and it kept going

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Speaker 1: after I stopped. It may be something I have to

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Speaker 1: come back to for a full length episode for now, though,

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Speaker 1: Brent Bozell has been confirmed as the United States Ambassador

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Speaker 1: to South Africa and there is no new South African ambassador

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Speaker 1: to the United States. When I finished this series at

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Speaker 1: the end of April, there were rumors that the first

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Speaker 1: round of white South African refugees were on their way here,

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Speaker 1: and that group of around fifty did indeed arrive on

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Speaker 1: a chartered flight in May. A South African group claimed

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Speaker 1: in June that nine more refugees had arrived on a

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Speaker 1: commercial flight, but I can't find any official statement from

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Speaker 1: anyone about whether additional South Africans were ever brought over

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Speaker 1: from the BBC as recently as this week says. It's

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Speaker 1: not clear how many, or if any, additional South Africans

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Speaker 1: have been resettled in the US after that first group

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Speaker 1: in May, but apparently people are still applying for refugee resettlement.

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Speaker 1: At the end of this episode, you'll hear about a

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Speaker 1: group called Americaners. Back in the spring, it was very new.

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Speaker 1: It was a hastily established organization, but claimed at the

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Speaker 1: time that they were assisting white South Africans who hoped

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Speaker 1: to apply for refugee resettlement in the US. Well in September,

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Speaker 1: Americaners was formally brought on as a partner organization by

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Speaker 1: the US State Department, And as I'm writing this now,

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Speaker 1: a few days before Christmas, there is some news about

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Speaker 1: that the State Department outsourced the work of processing applications

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Speaker 1: for refugee resettlement on site in South Africa. The official

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Speaker 1: implementation partners in that process are Church World Services, a

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Speaker 1: nonprofit based in Indiana, and Americannors, a limited liability company

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Speaker 1: incorporated in Florida, but the actual work was being done

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Speaker 1: by RSC Africa, a company operated by that nonprofit, Church

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Speaker 1: World Services out of Kenya. In mid December, South African

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Speaker 1: authorities deported seven Kenya nationals working at the application processing center.

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Speaker 1: They had entered South Africa on tourist biasis and were

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Speaker 1: not legally allowed to work. The Americanor's website was pretty

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Speaker 1: bare bones when I looked at it back in April. Today,

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Speaker 1: now that they are an official implementation partner with the

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Speaker 1: US State Department, it's massive. There are pages and pages

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Speaker 1: of useful information for white South Africans looking to adjust

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Speaker 1: to life in America. There's a page explaining that it's

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Speaker 1: a common American custom to say hello to your neighbors,

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Speaker 1: and another page that lists everything you need to know

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Speaker 1: about hiring a maid to clean your suburban American home.

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Speaker 1: A page about American demographics suggests that quote the Midwest's

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Speaker 1: homogeneity offers a familiar feel, and it specifically notes that

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Speaker 1: Nebraska is ninety percent white. The same page advises the

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Speaker 1: reader to use American census data to research prospective locations.

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Speaker 2: Quote.

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Speaker 1: Knowing Georgia is thirty two percent black helps you prepare

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Speaker 1: for diverse interactions considering they are moving from Africa. I

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Speaker 1: don't know why they would need to prepare. Nevertheless, relations

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Speaker 1: between the United States and South Africa are not getting better.

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Speaker 1: The President of the United States keeps doubling down on

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Speaker 1: white nationalist talking points about the white genocide conspiracy theory.

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Speaker 1: So I'm sure this is a story that I'll keep

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Speaker 1: coming back to, whether I like it or not. I'll

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Speaker 1: be back soon with more weird little guys in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty six. On December sixteenth, nineteen fifty six, all over

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Speaker 1: South Africa, people gathered in city squares and event halls.

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Speaker 1: Children's choirs performed, congregations gathered to sing hymns, and whole

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Speaker 1: towns turned out to hear speeches from civic leaders and

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Speaker 1: church elders. They barbecued and picnicked. They made a whole

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Speaker 1: weekend of it, with parades led by mounted police and

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Speaker 1: festivals headlined by government officials all over the country. People

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Speaker 1: attending events in their own towns tuned in to hear

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Speaker 1: the Prime Minister's speech. In Krugersdorp, a judge addressing the

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Speaker 1: crowd in Jermyston urged Afrikaaners not to forsake God by

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Speaker 1: tolerating communism, saying quote, everywhere is the cry for equality

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Speaker 1: of whites and non whites, and everywhere it is fanned

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Speaker 1: by communism. In Freddorp, a speaker waxed poetic on the

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Speaker 1: noble character of their Dutch pioneer forefathers, saying quote, they

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Speaker 1: were neither conquerors nor oppressors. They always followed a determined

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Speaker 1: policy towards the barbarians. In Vadterfal, a member of parliament

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Speaker 1: gave a speech about the importance of apartheid, that it

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Speaker 1: was in fact a kindness allowing the races to live

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Speaker 1: and let live, retaining their racial identities by avoiding race

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Speaker 1: Mixing that speaker mc Botha would later help design and

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Speaker 1: implement the administration of the Bantustans.

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Speaker 3: Day.

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Speaker 1: He told the crowd that apartheid had a far more

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Speaker 1: positive outlook than something like segregation. In Kempton Park, theologian

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Speaker 1: Petrus Dryer warned that there could be no middle ground

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Speaker 1: economic integration. Inevitably leads to social integration, which always ends

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Speaker 1: in blood mixing. Apartheid was still young in nineteen fifty six.

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Speaker 1: The system was still being constructed. Dryer predicted a complete

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Speaker 1: disappearance of the white race if the country failed to

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Speaker 1: quickly adopt total and complete apartheid. That celebration, the one

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Speaker 1: in Kempton Park, was presided over by festival chair William

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Speaker 1: Henry Huggett. He'd been the mayor of the city for

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Speaker 1: several years in the early fifties, and he was on

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Speaker 1: the board of his local branch of the National Party.

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Speaker 1: The newspaper write up about the event mentions him only briefly.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't even tell you if mister hugget gave a speech,

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Speaker 1: but I'm willing to bet that they're in the audience

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Speaker 1: listening to those warnings of impending racial annihilation. Was his daughter,

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Speaker 1: at twelve year old, Monica Huggett. I'm Molly Conger and

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Speaker 1: this it's weird, little guys. This is a story about

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Speaker 1: religious fervor. It's about myth and legend and racial holy war.

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Speaker 1: It's a story of very modern bombings and treason convictions

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Speaker 1: and planned assassinations. But it's a story rooted in history,

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Speaker 1: So first, if you'll indulge me a bit of history.

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Speaker 1: December sixteenth is a significant day for South Africans. Today

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Speaker 1: it's celebrated as Reconciliation Day, but it wasn't always a

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Speaker 1: day of peace. In nineteen sixty one, the newly formed

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Speaker 1: paramilitary Arm of the African National Congress m CONTO Wisizwey

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Speaker 1: announced their existence with a series of bomb blasts and

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Speaker 1: leaflets declaring, quote, the time comes in the life of

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Speaker 1: any nation where there remains only two choices, submit or fight.

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Speaker 1: That time has now come to South Africa. We shall

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Speaker 1: not submit, and we have no choice but to hit

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Speaker 1: back by all means within our power, in defense of

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Speaker 1: our people. In nineteen thirty, the South African Communist Party

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Speaker 1: held a nationwide protest encouraging black South Africans to publicly

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Speaker 1: burn their past books, the internal passports black people were

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Speaker 1: required to carry at all times. At a passbook burning

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Speaker 1: rally in urban police attacked demonstrators, killing a and C

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Speaker 1: organizer Johannes and Kosi. In twenty twelve, a series of

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Speaker 1: police raids were carried out, rounding up four men accused

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Speaker 1: of treason and a plot to assassinate President Jacobsuma. And

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Speaker 1: the reason that all of these things happened on December

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Speaker 1: sixteenth is the same. It's the same reason those crowds

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Speaker 1: gathered in city squares all over the country in nineteen

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Speaker 1: fifty six. Until the holiday was repurposed as Reconciliation Day.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety five, it was celebrated as the Day

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Speaker 1: of the Vow. The holiday occupies a place of great

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Speaker 1: importance in the political ideology of the africaner nationalist. In

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Speaker 1: the eighteen thirties, Dutch speaking settlers in the British controlled

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Speaker 1: colony at the Cape of Good Hope began migrating north

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Speaker 1: away from British rule. Of course, the land nor of

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Speaker 1: the British colony wasn't empty, and these exploratory missions often

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Speaker 1: came into conflict with the African people whose land they

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Speaker 1: wanted to settle on. In eighteen thirty seven, one of

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Speaker 1: those bands of Dutch pioneers, known as the fore Trekkers,

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Speaker 1: set their sights on a bit of land in what

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Speaker 1: is now Kuasulu Natal. They approached the Zulu king dingane

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Speaker 1: An attempted to negotiate, stating a desire to live in

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Speaker 1: peace with the Zulu, but noting that they had been

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Speaker 1: victorious in prior conflicts with Zulu warriors. The negotiations did

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Speaker 1: not go well. Dinghane was understandably cautious in dealing with

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Speaker 1: the fur Trekers. Earlier treks North had brought the settlers

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Speaker 1: into violent conflict with the indigenous people they encountered, and

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Speaker 1: their proposal just wasn't consistent with the way the Zulu lived.

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Speaker 1: The four Trekers wanted a written contract for ownership of

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Speaker 1: the land in perpetuity. Neither of these things were possible

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Speaker 1: in Zulu society. Theirs was an oral culture. There were

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Speaker 1: no written treaties or contracts, and their customs and laws

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Speaker 1: didn't allow for the permanent transfer of ownership of land

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Speaker 1: held by the king. In February of eighteen thirty eight,

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Speaker 1: a four record delegation led by Pete Retief met with

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Speaker 1: d Ghane to sign the treaty. There are conflicting accounts

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Speaker 1: as to whether this treaty was actually signed, but d

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Speaker 1: Ghane clearly had no intention of giving the Dutch settlers

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Speaker 1: any land. The entire delegation was led to a nearby

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Speaker 1: hillside and killed. There were retaliatory attacks and skirmishes throughout

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Speaker 1: the year, but the settlers spent most of eighteen thirty

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Speaker 1: eight regrouping. Farmers from the Cape Colony were called up

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Speaker 1: as reinforcements, and the bit of history that matters here

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Speaker 1: came at the end of the year, the Battle of

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Speaker 1: Blood River. December of eighteen thirty eight, Andres Pretorius led

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Speaker 1: a caravan of fifty seven ox carts and four hundred

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Speaker 1: and sixty four trekker men into Zulu territory. The fort

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Speaker 1: Trekers were armed with guns, and the caravan had several cannons.

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Speaker 1: The battle began at dawn on December sixteenth. A surviving

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Speaker 1: member of the Zulu forces said their first charge was

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Speaker 1: mown down like grass by the musket fire. The Zulu

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Speaker 1: had an overwhelming numerical advantage, accounts very widely putting the

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Speaker 1: number at at least nine thousand, with some estimates ranging

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Speaker 1: as high as thirty thousand, but the fort Trekers had

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Speaker 1: a strong defensive position and they had artillery. By noon,

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Speaker 1: three thousand Zulu warriors were dead. The Fort Trekers had

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Speaker 1: not lost a single man in the Battle of Blood River.

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Speaker 1: There is, of course, no river with such a hideous name.

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Speaker 1: The battle was fought on the banks of the Encome River,

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Speaker 1: But on the day three thousand Zulu men were slain

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Speaker 1: in a matter of hours. The river is said to

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Speaker 1: have run red with their blood. That much is true.

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Speaker 1: The Battle of Blood River was fought on December sixteenth,

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Speaker 1: eighteen thirty eight. The Day of the Vow, however, celebrates

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Speaker 1: a possibly apocryphal vow sworn by Andres Pretorius that if

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Speaker 1: God would deliver them a victory against the Zulu, their

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Speaker 1: descendants would forever keep that day as a holy sabbath.

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Speaker 1: They didn't, not until many decades later, anyway. Leonard Thompson,

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Speaker 1: an English historian who led Yale's Southern African Research program,

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Speaker 1: posits that the Day of the Vow is political mythology,

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Speaker 1: a piece of history that was resurrected and embellished when

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Speaker 1: it was politically expedient. There is some kernel of truth.

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Speaker 1: There is a contemporary count in the journals of Pretorius's secretary,

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Speaker 1: General jan Bantis, that one week before the battle, Pretorius

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Speaker 1: called his senior officers to his tent and asked them

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Speaker 1: to pray to God for victory, and he promised that

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Speaker 1: if they were victorious, he would build a church to

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Speaker 1: commemorate it and they did win, and he did build

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Speaker 1: that church, thus fulfilling the only portion of that promise

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Speaker 1: that we have any record of. For decades, white South

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Speaker 1: Africans did not keep December sixteenth as a holy sabbath.

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Speaker 1: An eighteen seventy seven text by a South African nationalist

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Speaker 1: theologian contains a history of the battle, but it makes

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Speaker 1: no mention at all of any vow or of divine intervention.

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Speaker 1: The story re emerged in the late eighteen hundreds amidst

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Speaker 1: the Boer Wars, and in eighteen eighty a ceremony was

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Speaker 1: held to renew the covenant, and in this ceremony they

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Speaker 1: tied the story of the four Trekker victory over Black

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Speaker 1: Africans to the present struggle for national identity against the

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Speaker 1: British Empire. There were sporadic celebrations of the holiday in

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Speaker 1: the last few decades of the nineteenth century, and the

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Speaker 1: story was evolving as a sort of founding myth. God

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Speaker 1: wanted the Africaner to have that land. God wanted whites

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Speaker 1: to conquer Black Africans. God gave the Africaner this land

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Speaker 1: because they were God's chosen people. When South Africa gained

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Speaker 1: independence in nineteen ten. One of the first acts of

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Speaker 1: Parliament was to make the Day of the Covenant a

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Speaker 1: national holiday. In nineteen thirty eight, at the celebration of

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Speaker 1: the one hundred year anniversary of the Battle of Blood River,

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Speaker 1: nationalist politician D. F. Milan addressed the crowd. He said

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Speaker 1: Blood River had decided the future of South Africa, that

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Speaker 1: it was to be a civilized Christian nation under the

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Speaker 1: authority of the white race. And now that moment, in

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty eight, they were standing on the banks of

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Speaker 1: their own Blood River quote, seeing the dark masses gathering

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Speaker 1: around your isolated white race. A decade later, when Milan

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Speaker 1: was elected Prime Minister, he oversaw the implementation of apartheid.

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Speaker 1: You might be wondering at this point, why am I

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Speaker 1: telling you about this? What does this racist, fake holiday

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Speaker 1: have to do with the subject of our story, Monica

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Speaker 1: huggets Stone. It has everything to do with her. Her

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Speaker 1: belief in the vengeful racist god of Blood River is

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Speaker 1: central to the way she has lived her entire life.

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Speaker 1: She brings it up in almost every interview I could find.

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Speaker 1: In one podcast from twenty twenty one, she describes visiting

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Speaker 1: the site with her family as a child. To this day,

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Speaker 1: She believes that if the africaner renews that vow, their

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Speaker 1: God will guide their hand in slaughtering the enemies of

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Speaker 1: the white race, whoever they may be.

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Speaker 4: And this is what I'm clinging to, is that the

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Speaker 4: God of Blood treever is not dead, even if the

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Speaker 4: enemies all over the world, and might they not only black,

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Speaker 4: the white governments of the waste caused the fall of

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Speaker 4: South Africa and Rhodesia and the rest of the white

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Speaker 4: colonies in Africa.

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Speaker 5: And of course the jew has their hand in there.

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Speaker 4: Oh, absolutely absolutely.

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Speaker 1: The constructed mythology around the importance of that day became

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Speaker 1: so central to africanternationalists ideology and identity that for decades

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Speaker 1: there was no scholarship at all examining its historical roots.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy nine, historian Flora's vent Yardsfeld was presenting

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Speaker 1: a conference paper at the University of Pretoria. He had

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Speaker 1: begun to question the historicity of the popular cultural narratives

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Speaker 1: about Blood River, and just as he approached the lectern

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Speaker 1: to present his paper, forty men burst into the lecture

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Speaker 1: hall and surrounded the professor. They emptied a tin of

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Speaker 1: hot tar over him and coated him in white feathers.

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Speaker 1: Those men were members of a group that had up

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Speaker 1: until that very moment operated entirely in secret. This was

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Speaker 1: their big public debut. The leader seized the microphone and

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Speaker 1: announced himself. He was Eugene Terreblanche, leader of the Africaner

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00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:49,439
Speaker 1: Resistance movement. He called Vinyardsfeld's paper blasphemous, an attack on

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Speaker 1: the sanctity and very essence of Africaner identity. Early on,

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00:20:55,880 --> 00:21:00,639
Speaker 1: in the process of figuring out who Monica huggets Stone was,

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Speaker 1: I saw a very strange comment. I was reading a

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Speaker 1: blog post about an internal schism within a modern day

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Speaker 1: African nationalist group called the Swedelanders. The blog was written

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Speaker 1: by Adrian Snyman. We'll get to him in a minute,

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Speaker 1: but in the comments under the post there was one

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Speaker 1: from Monica, posted in twenty twenty three, and she was

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Speaker 1: so sorry to see whites turning on each other instead

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Speaker 1: of focusing on the real enemy. And she ends this

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Speaker 1: rather long comment by saying, quote, the time is now

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Speaker 1: for the Boer people to stand together, to go on

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Speaker 1: their knees and beg forgiveness from our creator, the Great

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00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,439
Speaker 1: Almighty God who created the heavens and the earth. We

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00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,920
Speaker 1: have turned our backs on God and have the mistaken

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Speaker 1: idea that we ourselves are the saviors of the Boer people.

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Speaker 1: God has not abandoned us. He is waiting patiently for

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Speaker 1: the people to call upon him. Just as at Blood River,

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Speaker 1: he will answer again and give his children victory. And

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Speaker 1: I didn't know what that meant, so I made a

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00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,399
Speaker 1: note of it, and I moved on, And then I

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00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 1: saw it again in a YouTube comment just a few

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Speaker 1: months ago. She wrote, may the God of Blood River

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00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:20,040
Speaker 1: be with his children and give us victory against his enemy.

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Speaker 1: And then I found a series of articles she wrote

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Speaker 1: for a rabidly anti Semitic Christian identity magazine between twenty

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Speaker 1: eleven and twenty seventeen. And they're all very strange. The

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Speaker 1: Bible verses she quotes are from a translation I'd never

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00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 1: heard of. It's not the King James or the New International.

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Speaker 1: It's something else, entirely, something called the Ferrari Fenton Bible.

320
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Speaker 1: He was apparently a British businessman who died in nineteen twenty,

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Speaker 1: and his translation is not well regarded by biblical scholars.

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Speaker 1: He was also briefly the head of the South African

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Speaker 1: Diamond Mining Corporation group, and he believed that British people

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Speaker 1: were the true Israelites. I didn't know the Farar fent

325
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 1: and Bible was even an option, but I guess if

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Speaker 1: you're a racist South African who believes white people are

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00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,439
Speaker 1: the descendants of the lost tribes of Israel, it's the

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00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 1: perfect choice. In those articles, she predicts a coming race war,

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Speaker 1: she agonizes over what she calls satanic attacks on the

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Speaker 1: Aryan race, and there at the end of pages of

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00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: apocalyptic rambling, she calls for a renewal of the vow

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Speaker 1: of Blood River and that blog. Monica's comment in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three on that post about internal divisions within a

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Speaker 1: right Winging Africannor group preparing for a race war, Well,

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00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 1: that comment wasn't her only appearance on that site. In

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Speaker 1: twenty eleven, the blog's author, Adrian Snyman wrote a post

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Speaker 1: with the title thank you Aryan Nations, and the post

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00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 1: is a response to Monica Stone. She had written privately

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Speaker 1: to Snyman to let him know that she would be

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Speaker 1: attending the Aryan Nations World Congress in September of twenty eleven,

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00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 1: and she'd be giving a speech about the white genocide

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00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 1: in South Africa. Snyman's post describes Monica as the only

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Speaker 1: female member of the Africaner Resistance movement to have ever

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Speaker 1: served time in prison for her involvement in the group,

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Speaker 1: and he urges his readers to email her their letters

346
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 1: of thanks so she can present them to the Aryan

347
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 1: Nations after her speech. And here's where things start to

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00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 1: go off the rails. Adrian Snyman, the author of that blog,

349
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: is a prolific writer. In his younger years, he worked

350
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 1: for a newspaper covering horse racing, and for decades he

351
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: cranked out dozens of novels under a variety of pseudonyms.

352
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Speaker 1: But by nineteen ninety he he'd found his calling interpreting

353
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Speaker 1: the prophecies of Nicklaus van Rensburg. Nicholas van Rensburg was

354
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: born in eighteen sixty four on a farm in what

355
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: is now South Africa. He never learned to write, and

356
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: he only learned to read by sounding out the words

357
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Speaker 1: of the Bible. He died in nineteen twenty six. During

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Speaker 1: the Second Boer War. He was a close companion of

359
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Speaker 1: General Coups de la Rey. He was also allegedly a

360
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: prophet of God. I spent too much time trying to

361
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 1: parse the prophecies. I had trouble locating any actual, original

362
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: written versions of the prophecies. I don't want to see

363
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: interpretations of them. I want to see them, and I

364
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 1: looked for some original source for entirely too long before

365
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: I realized they don't exist. According to Snyman, Van Rensberg's

366
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 1: daughter Anna wrote down over seven hundred of her father's visions,

367
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: but the original handwritten books were lost at the time

368
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 1: of her death in nineteen eighty one. The family was

369
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: not in possession of any of those writings. It appears

370
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: he's based his books on a document written in nineteen

371
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Speaker 1: forty two. A man who had seen those original written

372
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: versions of the prophecies related them orally to another man

373
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Speaker 1: who wrote them down sixteen years after Van Rensburg died,

374
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Speaker 1: and even that document was lost until Sniman received it

375
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety. There's no explanation of where it was

376
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: in between, or how he came to possess it. Very

377
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: unclear providence on these prophecies. There's no chain of custody

378
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 1: on the prophecies. Sniman has written so feverishly on the

379
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: subject for the last thirty five years. Almost everything I

380
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 1: can find about Van Rensburgh is written by him, and

381
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: everything else relies on his work. There are some contemporary

382
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: accounts of some of Van Rensburgh's visions, but it's worth

383
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 1: mentioning that the most spectacular examples of his predictions coming

384
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 1: to pass aren't ones I was able to find written

385
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: accounts of that date back to his lifetime, and the

386
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: interpretations of those prophecies that present possible modern occurrences as

387
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 1: their fulfillment are almost universally written by fervent Race war enthusiasts,

388
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: people who really really want the prophecies to be true.

389
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: And the problem with prophecies that some people really really

390
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 1: want to be true is that there will sometimes be

391
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: people who take matters into their own hands and try

392
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 1: to make them come true. Most of his visions are

393
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: entirely symbolic. Things like I saw a red bull and

394
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 1: a gray bull fighting is interpreted by his followers as

395
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: an accurate prediction of World War I, or out of

396
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: the North, a speckled black ox appears. He is looking

397
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: in our direction. The earth in our country becomes desolate,

398
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 1: but in Europe it becomes pitch dark, and that is

399
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:30,360
Speaker 1: apparently a prediction of the Great Depression. According to Sneyman,

400
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 1: Van Reinzberg correctly predicted such events as every war of

401
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: the twentieth century, the Chernobyl nuclear disaster Aids, the collapse

402
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: of the Soviet Union, the election of Margaret Thatcher, Princess

403
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: Diana's divorce, Princess Diana's death, and a nineteen ninety five

404
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: earthquake in Japan. As for the prophecies that haven't come true,

405
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: well maybe they just haven't come true yet.

406
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 5: In nineteen six he tells his friend boy Mussmann, there

407
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 5: will come a time when I will be once.

408
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 4: Again in the news.

409
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: In those days I see we are still fighting amongst ourselves.

410
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 2: And it is over, and we will have a black government.

411
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 3: Which is then that the Afrikaana's final and fiercest struggle

412
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 3: will begin.

413
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: According to Snyman's books, Ben Ronzberg had a vision in

414
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty five, six months before his death. The actual

415
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: text of this prophecy is word solid, something about a

416
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: goose coming out of a man's mouth, but it's interpreted

417
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: to mean that Van Rensburgh predicted that in the distant future,

418
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: a black man will be released from prison and that

419
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: man will attain power and under his rule the country

420
00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,040
Speaker 1: will be thrown into chaos, and at some point that

421
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: man will die a violent death, and on the eighth

422
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: day after his death, the day he is buried, a

423
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: civil war will begin. By his own account, Sneiman started

424
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: interpreting the prophecies in nineteen ninety. He published his first

425
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: book on them in nineteen ninety two, but the earliest

426
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: writing I could actually get my hands on is from

427
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety five, So I can't tell you if Sneiman

428
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: always believed that this particular prophecy was about Nelson Mandela

429
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: and his release from prison in nineteen ninety and his

430
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: election as president in nineteen ninety four. But that's his

431
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 1: interpretation now, and this particular prophecy has inspired at least

432
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 1: two attempts to force it to come true. In late

433
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: two thousand and two, a white supremacist terrorist organization calling

434
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: itself the Booramagh set off a series of bombs in Soeto,

435
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: outside of Johannesburg. They targeted a mosque, a Buddhist temple,

436
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: an airport, a gas station, and railways, and those bombs

437
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 1: went off after the first round of arrests earlier that year.

438
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: After the wave of bombing, the group emailed newspapers taking

439
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: responsibility for the attacks. They demanded the release of the

440
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: Boramag members who'd already been arrested, but it warned that

441
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: it wasn't just lower ranking members of the group that

442
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: people should be worried about. Interfering with the mission of

443
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: the Boramagh was a challenge to the God of the

444
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: Blood River. If their demands weren't met, another wave of

445
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: bombings would commence. On December sixteenth, the day of the vow,

446
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: those bombings did not come to pass. Police responded to

447
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 1: the emails by raiding ninety four properties and arresting eleven

448
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: more Boromac members. Intriguingly, some of the homes that were

449
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: raided that day belonged to men we've encountered elsewhere in

450
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: this story. There were police raids at the home of

451
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: Baron Streidem the White Wolf, who went on a shooting

452
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: spree in nineteen eighty eight, and at the home of villem. Rata,

453
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,959
Speaker 1: the former Rhodesian military officer who commanded the German mercenaries

454
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: at Radio Pratoria in nineteen ninety four. Africana Resistance Movement

455
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: member Mani Merits and Pete Rudolph, the leader of the

456
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 1: Order Borofolk at one of these homes, though none of

457
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 1: the reporting specifies whose police found a list of names

458
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: of the detectives who'd been investigating the boramac. The trials

459
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: took over a decade, with testimony from over two hundred people.

460
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: In the end, twenty three members of the group received

461
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 1: prison sentences of varying lengths between five and three thirty

462
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 1: five years. The ringleader, Mike Detoy, was the first South

463
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: African to be convicted of treason by the post apartheid government,

464
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: and because the cases spent eleven years in court, we

465
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 1: know a lot about them. At the group's first meeting,

466
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: members took the vow of blood River. They carried copies

467
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: of the vow pasted into a little book at all times,

468
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: and they gave each other code names like Rottweiler and motherfucker.

469
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: After they swore their allegiance to God and each other,

470
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 1: the leader of the group gave each man a single

471
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: nine millimeter bullet. In later testimony, a member said quote

472
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: he said, there was no turning back now. Anyone turning

473
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: back will be shot, and if you knew somebody would

474
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: betray you, you had to make sure. He was shot.

475
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: In October of two thousand and two, former President Nelson

476
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: Mandela was scheduled to travel to Limpopo for a ceremony

477
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: opening a new school. BOROMAC members placed a large bomb

478
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: on the side of the road they knew he would

479
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: have to travel to get there, and stretched a trip

480
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 1: wire across it. They were hiding in the bushes waiting

481
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 1: to watch the former president get blown to bits when

482
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: they heard the helicopter. They'd failed. Had Mandela not taken

483
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: a helicopter at the last minute instead of traveling the

484
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,280
Speaker 1: final leg of his journey by car, the bomb almost

485
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 1: certainly would have killed him, and this they believed would

486
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 1: trigger Van Rensburgh's prophecies of a race war. Both their

487
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: own testimony and documents recovered in the police raids show

488
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: their dedication to the Van Rensburg prophecies. A lot of

489
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: their planning documents just don't make sense at all without

490
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: the context of the prophecies. One plan presupposes, without explanation,

491
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 1: that the violence will simply begin when a mob of

492
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 1: black people engage and violent midnight attacks in Johannesburg. That's

493
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:08,720
Speaker 1: an extremely unlikely and unexplained scenario in the real world,

494
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: but it is something that does incite an unstoppable wave

495
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 1: of violence. In some of Sneman's interpretations of the prophecies,

496
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: their planning documents also fixate on the idea of amassing

497
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: their forces in a small town called Prisca. There's no

498
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 1: political or tactical advantage to being in Prisca, but the

499
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: town is mentioned more than twenty times in one of

500
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 1: Sneiman's books. Van Rensburg had a vision that a miracle

501
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: would occur in Prisca, that in their hour of need,

502
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 1: the Boers would receive much needed help from abroad. In

503
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: the prophecies, the white africaner is armed for the final

504
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 1: struggle in Prisca when German guns arrive. It's very important

505
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 1: in the prophecies these German guns. The guns must come

506
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 1: from Germany. And that's so interesting. I mean, the prophecies

507
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 1: are a jumbled mess and a lot of it doesn't

508
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 1: mean anything. They're mostly about bulls fighting and white horses

509
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:20,280
Speaker 1: on hillsides and chickens running east. But the German guns

510
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 1: are quite concrete, and I wonder if that was on

511
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: anyone's mind. In nineteen ninety three, when Monica Huggett started

512
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:34,839
Speaker 1: hosting German mercenaries in her home, maybe it's a coincidence

513
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 1: that those Germans were the ones smuggling in the guns

514
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: they hoped to use in the race war back then

515
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 1: hard to say. Over the course of the Boromag trials,

516
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: witnesses testified to almost unbelievable plots that the group never

517
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 1: had a chance to carry out. Members testified that they'd

518
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:01,280
Speaker 1: considered stoking racial tension by carrying out terrace attacks intended

519
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 1: to appear as though the perpetrators had been Jewish or Muslim.

520
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 1: One early plan involved shooting down an American passenger plane,

521
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: but that was scrapped because it was likely to kill

522
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: white people. A police informant who'd infiltrated the group testified

523
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 1: that one member claimed his American contacts in the Ku

524
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: Klux Klan could help them create a poison to put

525
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 1: in the water supply. Another member set on the stand

526
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 1: that they'd planned to poison oranges and then leave them

527
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: on the streets of Soweto where black people might pick

528
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,919
Speaker 1: them up and eat them. When the guilty verdicts were read,

529
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: Pete Rudolph stood up in the gallery and yelled in Afrikaans,

530
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 1: we shall overcome. How odd to see Pete Rudolph misbehaving

531
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 1: in the gallery twice so many years apart. It was

532
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 1: a few episodes ago now, but thirty three years before this,

533
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty, it was Pete Rudolph who stood and

534
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 1: applauded as the vict Commando bombers were led into the

535
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: court room. But during the trials, thirteen of those defendants

536
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: took a unorthodox approach to their defense. They challenged the

537
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 1: court's jurisdiction to even try them at all, claiming that

538
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 1: due to irregularities in the nineteen ninety two referendum and

539
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 1: the nineteen ninety four election, the current government was illegitimate

540
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 1: and the post nineteen ninety four constitution was not binding.

541
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 1: The government's position was, of course, that the nineteen ninety

542
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 1: two referendum had authorized the government to negotiate a new constitution.

543
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 1: That referendum, for the record, asked the question do you

544
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,720
Speaker 1: support continuation of the reform process which the state president

545
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: began on two February nineteen ninety and which has aimed

546
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: at a new constitution through negotiation, And that referendum passed

547
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 1: with sixty nine percent of voters saying yes. Here's Monica's

548
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 1: men memory of that election.

549
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 5: Just for fun, I mean. I remember my niece was

550
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 5: about three four years old. We walked into the voting

551
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 5: booths and she little as she was gay. It's the

552
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 5: Nazi salute, and she said, my daddy is voting.

553
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 4: No.

554
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: The BORAMAG defendants were unsuccessful, obviously, but they did try

555
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: to subpoena South Africa's last apartheid president, DEFW De Clerk,

556
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 1: I guess, in an attempt to prove that the government

557
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: didn't legally exist, and after the verdicts were in some

558
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: right wingers blamed to Clerk if he hadn't ended apartheid,

559
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:44,280
Speaker 1: none of this would have happened in the first place.

560
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: A press release from Andres Breidenbach, leader of the far

561
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 1: right party HNP and chairman of a group called the

562
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: bor Afrikaner Volksfrad, attacked to Clerk. The press release read,

563
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 1: in part, each of the those sentences as yours personally,

564
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 1: because you are the real trader who subjugated our people

565
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: to a hostile power with cunning in deceit, and further

566
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 1: down the page he continues that you have not created

567
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: any git through which the poor African or people can

568
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 1: escape from this dispensation in a constitutional manner. Shows your

569
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:22,479
Speaker 1: evil intent against our people. News reports at the time

570
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 1: say the press release was issued via his Facebook page,

571
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 1: but I couldn't dig it up there. No, Unfortunately, I

572
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 1: found it on Stormfront. I can't believe I'd never noticed before,

573
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 1: but the internet's oldest running Nazi message board has an

574
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: entire subsection where all the posts are in Afrikaans. In

575
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: a two thousand and nine dissertation by Inez Mary Stephanie

576
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 1: at the University of the vit Varsrand, the author makes

577
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: a claim that I believe but I can't find anywhere else.

578
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,240
Speaker 1: She writes that in the mid nineties, the Africaner Resistance

579
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: movement didn't have their own website. I mean, it was

580
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 1: the nineties, how many people knew how to make a website.

581
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 1: But instead of the group just not having a website,

582
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 1: American clansman Don Black, Stormfront's webmaster, hosted their online presence

583
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: for them. What a strange and fascinating intersection. But back

584
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,359
Speaker 1: to the press release. I wouldn't have bothered to tell

585
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 1: you Andreas Breytenbach's name if that was his only appearance

586
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 1: in this story. There's already too many guys I know.

587
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 1: But it's not no, because he had friends overseas two

588
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: and he was in Washington, d C. In September of

589
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: twenty twelve. I can't blame you if you've forgotten why

590
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 1: that's interesting. It's been a long story. It was in

591
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:01,399
Speaker 1: September of twenty twelve that Monica hugg at Stone led

592
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: that tiny gaggle of Aryan Nations members on a march

593
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:08,280
Speaker 1: through DC. It was her second attempt at getting public

594
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: attention for her South Africa project, raising awareness for the

595
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 1: white genocide of the Africaner. But what if it was

596
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: something else. A month before that rally, the front page

597
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: story in d Africaner, the newspaper for the far right

598
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 1: party HNP, said that their chairman Andres Breitenbach had decided

599
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: that there would be a march in America the following month, quote,

600
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: a march will be held in America next month. This

601
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:47,439
Speaker 1: action stop genocide was initiated by the HNP. So maybe

602
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: there was some other march against white genocide somewhere in

603
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 1: the United States in September of twenty twelve, as possible,

604
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 1: I guess, But this was the only one in Washington, DC.

605
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: That's where Andres Breytenbach was the week of Monica's Aryan

606
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: Nation's rally at the Capitol. I can't find him in

607
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 1: any of the photos, but that same party newspaper uses

608
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 1: a photo of Monica at her rally to illustrate their

609
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 1: story about Breytenbach delivering a letter to the ambassador in

610
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:24,359
Speaker 1: Washington that same week. Maybe something is lost in translation here,

611
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 1: but the article appears to conclude with this statement. The

612
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 1: group of local protesters was also encouraged by the fact

613
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 1: that their spokesman, mister Andres Breytenbach, gave an interview to

614
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:42,359
Speaker 1: the media at the embassy, and Monica obviously saw and

615
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: had no issue with the wording of this article because

616
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,359
Speaker 1: it was proudly posted to the Arian Nation's website, which

617
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 1: is where I found it. But it gets even stranger.

618
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 1: Breytenbach wasn't the only South African who paid a visit

619
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 1: to the Aryan Nations in September of twenty That same month,

620
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 1: a man named Hein Boonsire took a trip to the

621
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: United States. When he was arrested for treason three months later,

622
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: it was revealed in court that he'd been trying to

623
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 1: secure funding from the Aryan Nations and the ku Klux Klan.

624
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: Buonsire and three others, Johann Prinslou, John Martin kiv and

625
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 1: Mark Trollop were arrested on December sixteenth, twenty twelve, the

626
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: day of the vow and the day they had planned

627
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: to assassinate South African President Jacob Zuma. The charges against

628
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,879
Speaker 1: Boonsire were dropped in August of twenty thirteen, and after

629
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 1: a psychiatric evaluation. John Martin Kievy was committed to a

630
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:48,280
Speaker 1: state hospital. Mark Tarlop pled guilty to conspiracy, and Johann

631
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:53,760
Speaker 1: Princelou was found guilty of treason after a trial. So legally,

632
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 1: can I tell you that hein Buonsire was soliciting funding

633
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 1: for terrorism? No, I can't. He wasn't convicted of any

634
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 1: crime in connection to the plot. But the plot was real.

635
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: It was real enough that Johann Prinsley was convicted of

636
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 1: treason and Buonsire did make two trips to the United

637
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: States to connect with right wing groups, one just months

638
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: before his arrest. Early reporting about his arrest explicitly states

639
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 1: that the twenty twelve trip had been an effort to

640
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 1: secure financial backing from American extremist groups. But I was

641
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: puzzled about the economics of such a trip. I mean

642
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 1: guns aren't cheap, sure, but what's the return on investment

643
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 1: in terms of ammunition when you're looking at booking international travel.

644
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 1: But it's possible they needed money for more than just weapons.

645
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: Buonsire was buying land, a lot of it in Prisca.

646
00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 1: There is a post from the year before his arrest

647
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: a website for believers in the Free Afrikaner movement. It's

648
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 1: a collection of white South Africans who want an independent state,

649
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 1: and the post name's Buonsire's real estate company, Hausenberg Development Cooperative,

650
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 1: as one of two companies allowing people to purchase shares

651
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: in a large tract of land to facilitate white resettlement.

652
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: Later reporting from investigative journalism outlet Amapungani says Boonsire's company

653
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 1: website was in twenty twelve quote in the process of

654
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: purchasing thirty thousand hectares of farmland in Prisca. But I

655
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:50,359
Speaker 1: can't find any follow up as to whether or not

656
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:54,280
Speaker 1: he ever successfully purchased the land for his white enclave.

657
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 1: During his trip to the United States in twenty twelve,

658
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 1: he appeared on episodes of one right wing podcast and

659
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 1: made a single appearance on a wildly fringe anti Semitic

660
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 1: conspiracy theory show. I spent the better part of the

661
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: day trying to dig up audio of any of those episodes,

662
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:19,800
Speaker 1: but they seem to be lost to time. Amapungane reported

663
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 1: in twenty twelve that in one episode, Buonsire said, I

664
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 1: think we can assume that within the next six to

665
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 1: eight months, I wouldn't be surprised if we had a

666
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: full scale civil war in South Africa. It's a low

667
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:32,800
Speaker 1: level war that's being waged against us, and at some

668
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 1: point any group of people or a nation would stand

669
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:39,919
Speaker 1: up and say enough is enough. In the reporting about

670
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: Boonsire's American connections, it's mentioned that he'd visited once before,

671
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,439
Speaker 1: but no details are provided. It seemed like that first

672
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:51,760
Speaker 1: trip might remain a mystery until I found an open

673
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 1: letter Boonsire himself wrote in twenty thirteen after his charges

674
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 1: were dropped. In that letter, he reveals that he'd been

675
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: publishing online for years under the pseudonym Heinrich Zeman, and

676
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: there is a bit of writing online in Afrikaans under

677
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 1: that name, much of it published by the Pro African

678
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 1: or Action Group. But I found one essay in English,

679
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 1: the beast tells the almost entirely fictional story of the

680
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 1: author's grandparents falling victim to the ongoing white genocide in

681
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: South Africa. They are victims of these infamous farm murders,

682
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 1: hacked to death in their beds by machete wielding black men,

683
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 1: and he writes in gory detail about the couple's beloved dog,

684
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 1: dismembered by the attackers as he gave his life trying

685
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 1: to protect his masters. It's gruesome, it's almost pornographic in

686
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,760
Speaker 1: its description of the author discovering that the dog's final

687
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 1: act was tearing the throat out of one of the

688
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:58,839
Speaker 1: black attackers. It was published in twenty eleven by American Renaissance,

689
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 1: supremacist magazine run by Jared Taylor. Taylor's website notes that

690
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,879
Speaker 1: the author attended the American Renaissance Conference in twenty ten,

691
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 1: an event that was headlined by a speaker from the

692
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: Belgian fascist group Flams Belong, the successor organization to Flams Block,

693
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:19,720
Speaker 1: the neo Nazi organization that coordinated the movement of stolen

694
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:25,839
Speaker 1: guns and mercenaries to South Africa and the nineties Bundsaire's

695
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 1: piece was included in a collection of essays published by

696
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 1: American Renaissance in twenty twenty, and the book has a

697
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:36,800
Speaker 1: forward by Jared Taylor himself. I will do some episodes

698
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 1: on Jared Taylor one of these days. He's had an

699
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: enormous influence on American white supremacist thought over the last

700
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 1: forty years. His annual conference has for decades now been

701
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 1: a real who's who of the international extreme right. I

702
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:58,839
Speaker 1: went once years ago. I mean I couldn't get inside, obviously,

703
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: I just outside in a park somewhere in Tennessee, and

704
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 1: all I got from my trouble was pepper sprayed and

705
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:09,879
Speaker 1: trampled by some cops. For the average person, I would

706
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: guess the only time you've encountered Jared Taylor's name in

707
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,880
Speaker 1: the news was back in twenty fifteen. He was the

708
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: spokesman for the Council of Conservative Citizens when they had

709
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 1: to make a series of public statements after the Charleston

710
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 1: church shooting. Dylan Rufe's manifesto made it quite clear that

711
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 1: he'd been radicalized by the Council of Conservative Citizens, specifically

712
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 1: their publications on black crime, and that's what convinced him

713
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:42,319
Speaker 1: that white people were being treated unfairly. Their website set

714
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 1: him down the path that ended the lives of nine

715
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 1: people whose only crime was welcoming a stranger into their

716
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 1: Bible study. Like I said, Boonsire's charges were dropped when

717
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: he was arrested. In twenty twelve, he was removed as

718
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:01,840
Speaker 1: the head of a newly for political party, the Federal

719
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 1: Freedom Party, after its founder was arrested for treason. It

720
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 1: obviously struggled a bit, and it rebranded as Front National

721
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,800
Speaker 1: in twenty thirteen, and then rebranded again as the African

722
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 1: her Self Determination Party in twenty twenty. I can't tell

723
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:20,240
Speaker 1: if Boonsi is still active and the party he started

724
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:22,239
Speaker 1: seems like it would be kind of hard to go

725
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: back to canvassing for elections when you've already considered triggering

726
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:29,800
Speaker 1: a prophecy by blowing up the president. But people can change.

727
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:36,360
Speaker 1: I don't know. In September of twenty twelve, Monica hugget

728
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 1: Stone was in touch with the leader of the far

729
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:42,799
Speaker 1: right party HNP and a man accused of treason. She

730
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,280
Speaker 1: led a tiny Arian nation's rally at the United States

731
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 1: Capital and then she left. She had been living in

732
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:53,320
Speaker 1: the United States since two thousand after marrying Jim Stone,

733
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:57,359
Speaker 1: a retired sports news broadcaster living just outside New Orleans.

734
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 1: Federal Election Commission filings show that Jimstone was on the

735
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 1: payroll for David Duke's nineteen ninety six Senate run, but

736
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 1: the campaign didn't amount to much. Jim was apparently the

737
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 1: campaign press secretary and director of media relations. But the

738
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:15,480
Speaker 1: only news story I can find that looks like it

739
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: was placed by a press secretary is the one announcing

740
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 1: he'd been hired for the position, So maybe he wasn't

741
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 1: very good at it. Jim Stone passed away in early

742
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 1: twenty twelve, and in twenty thirteen, the now widowed Monica

743
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 1: Stone sold their home in Mandavie, Louisiana, and returned to

744
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 1: her hometown of Kempton Park in South Africa. Back in

745
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:41,759
Speaker 1: South Africa, she operates a charitable organization called the Living

746
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:45,360
Speaker 1: Waters Foundation, and interviews in recent years always include a

747
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 1: request for donations. She helps orphans, you see, but only

748
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:54,760
Speaker 1: white ones. She's quite meticulous about it. In twenty fifteen,

749
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 1: a fellow South African neo Nazi recommended donating to Monica's charity,

750
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 1: writing on his blog quote, She's a hardcore national socialist.

751
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:08,799
Speaker 1: She only gives money to white children. If she gives

752
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 1: money to someone and she later sees them helping non whites,

753
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 1: then she cuts off the monies. I went with her

754
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen to visit an orphanage in Pretoria, the

755
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 1: only one run by a white woman who was doing

756
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,879
Speaker 1: it only for white children. But when Monica later found

757
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 1: out that the woman was also helping blacks, she cut

758
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:32,240
Speaker 1: off all donations, which I agree with batman Ian Lamprecht

759
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 1: was arrested in twenty twenty one for violating a court

760
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 1: order to stop harassing a Jewish professor, but that's neither

761
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 1: here nor there. I can't quite nail down the specifics,

762
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:45,320
Speaker 1: but it seems Yan and Monica had a falling out

763
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: some time after twenty fifteen, but for the most part

764
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 1: in a movement constantly ripped apart by personal feuds and

765
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 1: power struggles and accusations of betrayal, I can't find a

766
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 1: single bad word about Monica Huggets. I scraped together every

767
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 1: existing record of her involvement in white supremacist groups from

768
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:09,320
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine, when she first met Eugene tare Blanche,

769
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:15,360
Speaker 1: through the present day, covering nearly fifty years, intersecting with

770
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:20,320
Speaker 1: multiple bombing campaigns, international arms smuggling rings, and attempted coups.

771
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 1: She turned state's witness against her own boyfriend in nineteen

772
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:30,319
Speaker 1: eighty And I dug through dozens of ancient blogs in

773
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 1: multiple languages, and I can't find a single Nazi with

774
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 1: a bad word to say about her. And I think

775
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 1: that's a first. There's always beef somewhere. I will have

776
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 1: to circle back at some point to talk about the

777
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:49,840
Speaker 1: Swede Lenders, maybe another time. There are more recent African

778
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 1: nationalist group founded in the early two thousands, and they

779
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 1: publicly shy away from being associated with obvious neo Nazi imagery,

780
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 1: but the group is explicitly and completely centered around the

781
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 1: Van Rensburg prophecies. They exist to prepare their members for

782
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:13,400
Speaker 1: the coming race war and spoiler alert in case I

783
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 1: don't get back to the Swede Lenders anytime soon. Their spokesman,

784
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 1: Simon Roche, spent most of the summer of twenty seventeen

785
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 1: traveling the United States, including attending the Unite the Right

786
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:27,800
Speaker 1: rally here in Charlottesville, and back in that time period,

787
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:29,400
Speaker 1: they got into a little bit of hot water in

788
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 1: the movement. There were allegations that Simon Roche had been

789
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 1: pocketing donations from other white nationalists. It was a bit

790
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 1: of a scandal, and in twenty eighteen he appeared on

791
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 1: an American neo Nazi podcast to address the issue, and

792
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 1: at some point during the show he was ambushed by

793
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 1: Jan Lamprecht, who is a rival of his, and it

794
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 1: got a little heated and it was a very lengthy,

795
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:56,320
Speaker 1: uncomfortable interview. But at the end of all that, Simon

796
00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 1: Roche still spoke glowingly of Monica, calling her some with

797
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 1: an impeccable reputation and recommending that if after all of this,

798
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 1: you're still not comfortable donating to the Swedelanders, you should

799
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:08,800
Speaker 1: donate to Monica.

800
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, let me ask you this, are there other groups

801
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 3: that you think are reputable that are doing good work

802
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,759
Speaker 3: in South Africa that if anybody has questions about the

803
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 3: If there are people who have questions about the integrity

804
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 3: of Sidelanders, who would they want to support instead of you?

805
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 6: I would recommend that they support somebody like Monica Stone,

806
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 6: a very distinguished, decent lady who has fought for white nationalism.

807
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 6: She's probably a bit too right wing for me, but

808
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 6: she's a marvelous human being.

809
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 1: So she's a bit two right wing for the race

810
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 1: war guy, but she's a marvelous human being, he says.

811
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:58,520
Speaker 1: She's eighty one years old now, and she spent her

812
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 1: entire life in the orbit of assassins and mercenaries and

813
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:08,480
Speaker 1: war criminals and bombers and rapists and torturers and terrorists

814
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:10,719
Speaker 1: and death squad leaders and just run of the mill

815
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:15,760
Speaker 1: neo Nazis with fantasies of racial holy war. Her religion

816
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 1: is quite literally one of blood. Her god is the

817
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 1: vengeful God of Blood River. This story is over the

818
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 1: part of it that was in the past anyway, but

819
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:40,080
Speaker 1: I can't move on without making the consequences clear. This

820
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: is still happening. We'll leave Monica huggets Stone behind at

821
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 1: long last, because she was just the backstory. No. Now

822
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 1: we live in a world where these once fringe ideas

823
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 1: are front page news at outlets with White House presport.

824
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 1: And now, in twenty twenty five, the President of the

825
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:09,920
Speaker 1: United States wants to welcome as refugees these people with

826
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:14,640
Speaker 1: their apocalyptic visions of race war and mass extermination, these

827
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 1: people who worship the god of the Blood River. In

828
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 1: February of twenty twenty five, the President of the United

829
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:39,560
Speaker 1: States announced first by social media and then by executive

830
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:44,360
Speaker 1: order that a white nationalist conspiracy theory is now official

831
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:49,240
Speaker 1: foreign policy. No longer relegated to racist message boards and

832
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 1: poorly attended rallies, the idea that white South Africans are

833
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 1: being violently persecuted is now center stage. In the months

834
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 1: since the administration has doubled down on this stance, foreign

835
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:08,040
Speaker 1: aid to South Africa has been suspended, their ambassador has

836
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 1: been expelled, and now State Department officials have begun interviewing

837
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 1: white South Africans who have applied for refugee resettlement in

838
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:21,400
Speaker 1: the United States. Apartheid ended in South Africa thirty one

839
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 1: years ago, but it turns out some of the same

840
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:28,320
Speaker 1: people who fought tooth and nail to keep it back

841
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:37,640
Speaker 1: then are still around and they haven't stopped fighting. I'm Mollikonger,

842
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 1: and this is weird. Little guys, you know. I don't

843
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 1: like kurrent events. I really prefer to root around the

844
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 1: past and piece together the odds and ends of the

845
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 1: life and crimes of someone who's done hurting other people.

846
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:15,320
Speaker 1: I had a great time writing five episodes about Dennis Mahon,

847
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:19,200
Speaker 1: a man whose career as a white supremacist activist span decades.

848
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:23,960
Speaker 1: But when it came time to write a follow up episode,

849
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:26,920
Speaker 1: I hated to have to tell you that, even though

850
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 1: Dennis will almost certainly die before he finish his prison sentence,

851
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 1: the one he got for sending a bomb to the

852
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 1: diversity office in Scottsdale, Arizona, the current political climate finished

853
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:44,040
Speaker 1: what he started. Republican politicians did what he couldn't do

854
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:48,440
Speaker 1: with that bomb, and they closed that office. And we

855
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 1: find ourselves in something of a similar position now. These

856
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:56,959
Speaker 1: last few episodes have been a wild, sprawling narrative about

857
01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 1: white supremacist terrorism in South Africa in the final years

858
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:03,680
Speaker 1: of apartheid, and I've learned a lot of history that

859
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 1: I'd never been exposed to before, and I've really enjoyed

860
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 1: digging my way out of some of these unexpected rabbit holes.

861
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 1: But it would be irresponsible of me to tell you

862
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:17,480
Speaker 1: such a long story and then leave you thinking that

863
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 1: it was over, that it ended in nineteen ninety four,

864
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 1: that when apartheid ended, the international networks of right wing

865
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:31,160
Speaker 1: extremists who'd done unspeakable things in its defense just faded away.

866
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 1: Because they didn't and they don't always need guns and

867
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 1: bombs to get what they want. So we'll end this

868
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 1: mini series where we started it the White House back

869
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:49,240
Speaker 1: in February. When I started down this path, I had

870
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:53,120
Speaker 1: just read the executive Order, the one titled addressing the

871
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 1: Egregious Actions of the Republic of South Africa. In the

872
01:01:57,240 --> 01:02:00,160
Speaker 1: week that order was signed, Trump had offered some insight

873
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 1: into what was going on in his head in this

874
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:04,080
Speaker 1: post on truth social.

875
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 7: South Africa is confiscating land and treating certain classes of

876
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 7: people very badly. It's a bad situation that the radical

877
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:18,640
Speaker 7: left media doesn't want to so much as mention. A

878
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:22,960
Speaker 7: massive human rights violation at a minimum is happening for

879
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 7: all to see. The United States won't stand for it.

880
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 7: We will act also. I will be cutting off all

881
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:34,320
Speaker 7: future funding to South Africa until a full investigation of

882
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 7: this situation has been completed.

883
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 1: And that episode back in February goes into more detail

884
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 1: about what he's getting at here. South African President Cyril

885
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 1: Ramaposa had recently signed the Expropriation Act into law. There's

886
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:57,640
Speaker 1: a lot of misinformation and fear mongering built around a

887
01:02:57,960 --> 01:03:03,360
Speaker 1: very tiny kernel of truth in there. As a quick refresher,

888
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:08,920
Speaker 1: the Expropriation Act does allow the Government of South Africa

889
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:13,640
Speaker 1: to expropriate land. That part's true, but only under certain

890
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:19,600
Speaker 1: specific conditions. And it is fundamentally not really that different

891
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:22,480
Speaker 1: from what we call eminent domain here in the United States,

892
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:25,400
Speaker 1: and that's a power that was given to our government

893
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:29,200
Speaker 1: by the Fifth Amendment. There's no racial component to it.

894
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:33,560
Speaker 1: Nobody's terrorizing white farmers. There's no language at all in

895
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:40,120
Speaker 1: the Expropriation Act about race. I spent probably too long

896
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:43,480
Speaker 1: trying to look for clues that would help me guess

897
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:47,840
Speaker 1: why he made that post on truth Social on February

898
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:52,920
Speaker 1: twod Sometimes you can see a really clear direct line

899
01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:56,400
Speaker 1: which means something the president says or it does or

900
01:03:56,800 --> 01:04:00,640
Speaker 1: posts online. And the Fox News segment that he had

901
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:04,800
Speaker 1: just been watching and that episode from back in February

902
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:07,240
Speaker 1: makes what I think is a pretty good case for

903
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:09,800
Speaker 1: how Trump's ideas about what's going on in South Africa

904
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:12,480
Speaker 1: were formed back when he posted about it for the

905
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:17,000
Speaker 1: first time in twenty eighteen, and back in twenty eighteen,

906
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:20,280
Speaker 1: he tweeted about South African land reform for the first

907
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 1: time about forty five minutes after he heard about it

908
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 1: on an episode of Tucker Carlson. But on February second,

909
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:32,960
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, he made that truth social post while

910
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:35,560
Speaker 1: he was sitting on Air Force one en route to

911
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:40,240
Speaker 1: DC after a weekend golfing in Florida. His public schedule

912
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:43,840
Speaker 1: for that day doesn't give us much, but he did

913
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:47,600
Speaker 1: post several times that evening about Fox News host Mark Levin,

914
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 1: and he posted an old clip from Levin's show, and

915
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:53,960
Speaker 1: he reposted one of Mark's old posts, and he posted

916
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:58,160
Speaker 1: in all caps. Watched Mark Levin tonight on Fox News

917
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 1: eight pm Eastern Great Show, and Livin's show that evening

918
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to have touched on the issue of South Africa,

919
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:08,000
Speaker 1: So honestly, I couldn't tell you how the idea got

920
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:09,880
Speaker 1: into his head that night, after a long day on

921
01:05:09,920 --> 01:05:15,160
Speaker 1: the golf course, he posted it around six nineteen pm,

922
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:17,480
Speaker 1: and then forty minutes later, as he's sitting on the

923
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:22,400
Speaker 1: tarmac after the plane landed, he reposted it. And as

924
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:25,160
Speaker 1: he's leaving for the White House, a reporter asked him

925
01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:26,000
Speaker 1: about the post.

926
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:31,360
Speaker 8: So, on Pritzoto, you said that you were going to

927
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:33,280
Speaker 8: touch it from South Africa?

928
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:36,440
Speaker 9: Were you planned to cut eight across other African nations?

929
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:39,480
Speaker 8: In white South Africa, only South Africa. Terrible things are

930
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 8: happening in South Africa. The leadership is doing some terrible things,

931
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:47,439
Speaker 8: horrible things.

932
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:50,680
Speaker 10: So if that's under investigation right now, we'll make a

933
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:54,080
Speaker 10: determination and until such time as we find out what

934
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 10: South Africa is doing. They're taking away land, they're confiscating land,

935
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:02,880
Speaker 10: and actually doing things that are perhaps far worse than that.

936
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:09,040
Speaker 1: The far worse than that at the end of his

937
01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:12,280
Speaker 1: remarks is almost certainly a reference to his belief in

938
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:16,920
Speaker 1: the white genocide conspiracy theory, that false narrative that white

939
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:21,280
Speaker 1: farmers in South Africa are being murdered in enormous numbers.

940
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 1: And later that same week, in February of twenty twenty five,

941
01:06:26,520 --> 01:06:29,480
Speaker 1: Donald Trump signed the executive order cutting off aid to

942
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:33,760
Speaker 1: South Africa. It also directed DHS and the State Department

943
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:39,000
Speaker 1: to quote promote the resettlement of African or refugees escaping

944
01:06:39,040 --> 01:06:45,240
Speaker 1: government sponsored race based discrimination, including racially discriminatory property confiscation,

945
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:50,720
Speaker 1: and so, in conjunction with his other executive orders ones

946
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:56,600
Speaker 1: that suspended all other refugee resettlement operations, this now puts

947
01:06:56,640 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 1: white South Africans in a class all of their own.

948
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:04,120
Speaker 1: They're the only people on Earth, who are so persecuted,

949
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:08,560
Speaker 1: who are suffering so terribly that they are deserving of

950
01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:13,400
Speaker 1: assistance from the United States. And the executive order ignited

951
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 1: a flurry of activity on the right, both in the

952
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:20,720
Speaker 1: United States and in South Africa. Far right talking heads

953
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:24,120
Speaker 1: rushed to book South African guests, and one man in

954
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:29,360
Speaker 1: particular was very happy to oblige. In the last two months,

955
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:34,120
Speaker 1: Ernst Rutz has made the rounds. He's been interviewed by

956
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:38,920
Speaker 1: Ben Shapiro, Matt Gates, Tucker Carlson, Jack Bestobic, and Jordan Peterson.

957
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:43,080
Speaker 1: He's been on YouTube lives and shows that only exist

958
01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:46,919
Speaker 1: on Twitter. Somehow, he made an appearance on a show

959
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:51,200
Speaker 1: hosted by Rinaldo Grause, a South African YouTuber whose political

960
01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:54,680
Speaker 1: career was stopped dead in its tracks last summer. Just

961
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:58,440
Speaker 1: days after he was elected to parliament, his own parties

962
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:02,480
Speaker 1: stripped him of membership after of him calling for the

963
01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:08,440
Speaker 1: murder of all black people, and he used both the

964
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:11,640
Speaker 1: American racial slur that you're probably familiar with and a

965
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:17,840
Speaker 1: South African equivalent. And Roots also gave an interminably long

966
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:22,280
Speaker 1: interview to a benign sounding website called the White Papers

967
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:27,040
Speaker 1: Policy Institute, but As it turns out, the woman interviewing

968
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:31,360
Speaker 1: him has a long history of affiliation with neo Nazi groups,

969
01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:37,280
Speaker 1: and Ernst roots may sound familiar to you. In twenty eighteen,

970
01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:39,960
Speaker 1: he visited the United States in his capacity as the

971
01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:46,479
Speaker 1: deputy CEO of the Africaner nationalist group Afroforum. He met

972
01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:50,320
Speaker 1: with federal government officials and right wing think tanks. Notably,

973
01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:53,599
Speaker 1: he spent a day at the Heritage Foundation, took meetings

974
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:58,200
Speaker 1: with staffers for Ted Cruz, and during that visit, he

975
01:08:58,280 --> 01:09:01,960
Speaker 1: appeared on an episode of The Talker Carlson Show back

976
01:09:01,960 --> 01:09:05,560
Speaker 1: when it was actually on TV, back when it was

977
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:11,920
Speaker 1: appointment television for the president. And you might think that

978
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:16,559
Speaker 1: Ernst Rutz would have nothing but praise for Trump's executive order. Right,

979
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:19,680
Speaker 1: He's finally getting this message out, someone in power, is

980
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:25,000
Speaker 1: finally talking about this epidemic of white farmers being murdered

981
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:30,439
Speaker 1: in South Africa, and he is He's grateful for that, sure,

982
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:35,040
Speaker 1: but he doesn't think Trump's proposed solution is the right one.

983
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:38,200
Speaker 1: Here's what he said when he sat down with Tucker

984
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:39,680
Speaker 1: Carlson at the end of February.

985
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:44,880
Speaker 11: On one part of it says that they will grand

986
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:48,120
Speaker 11: refugee status to Africanas if they want to go to

987
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:51,320
Speaker 11: the US, which I don't think in all fainness. We're

988
01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:55,320
Speaker 11: really grateful for the public stance taken by the US,

989
01:09:55,400 --> 01:09:58,040
Speaker 11: and in a certain sense they haven't gone far enough.

990
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:00,400
Speaker 11: But in a certain sense I didn't. I think the

991
01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:04,760
Speaker 11: granting of refugee state is much of a solution. Some

992
01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:08,080
Speaker 11: people will take that up. But that's why I told

993
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:10,120
Speaker 11: you the story of the Battle of Blood River and

994
01:10:10,160 --> 01:10:14,360
Speaker 11: the vow we are culturally very very attached to South Africa.

995
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:20,439
Speaker 1: And here he is telling Jordan Peterson the same thing

996
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:22,080
Speaker 1: a few weeks later.

997
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:26,880
Speaker 11: That's why I'm so grateful that we spoke about the

998
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:31,439
Speaker 11: history part at first. Is our concern is that if

999
01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:35,480
Speaker 11: we just leave the country, our culture dissolves and our

1000
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:39,519
Speaker 11: communal identity dissolves and we become Americans or whatever, and so.

1001
01:10:39,479 --> 01:10:44,120
Speaker 12: Well, plus the entire country descends into lawlessness, chaos and

1002
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:47,120
Speaker 12: everyone dies. Yep, right, because if all the white South

1003
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:51,439
Speaker 12: African farmers leave, that's one hundred percent what will happen.

1004
01:10:55,479 --> 01:10:59,479
Speaker 1: Ernst Rutz is a nationalist. He doesn't want to leave

1005
01:10:59,520 --> 01:11:03,760
Speaker 1: South He isn't being persecuted for his whiteness. He just

1006
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:07,640
Speaker 1: misses the days when white minority rule meant the persecution

1007
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:13,280
Speaker 1: of everyone else. And in both those interviews, Ruts spoke

1008
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:15,720
Speaker 1: at some length about the importance of the Day of

1009
01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:19,800
Speaker 1: the Vow, about the covenant between God and the Africaner

1010
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:25,439
Speaker 1: granting them that land they can't leave. Men like Ernst

1011
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:27,719
Speaker 1: Roots are still standing on the banks of the Blood

1012
01:11:27,800 --> 01:11:31,200
Speaker 1: River waiting for God to sweep all the Africans out

1013
01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:36,120
Speaker 1: of their way, and ahead of that whirlwind press junket.

1014
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:40,280
Speaker 1: In February and March, Ernst Ruts actually resigned from his

1015
01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:44,000
Speaker 1: position as head of the Afrikaner Foundation, and that was

1016
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:47,400
Speaker 1: an initiative under the umbrella of the africanner interest group,

1017
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:52,320
Speaker 1: the Solidarity Movement, and Ruts says that he hadn't officially

1018
01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:57,200
Speaker 1: worked for Afroforum since twenty twenty three, but Afroform and

1019
01:11:57,320 --> 01:12:02,160
Speaker 1: the Africaner Foundation are both just part of the Solidarity movement.

1020
01:12:02,200 --> 01:12:05,920
Speaker 1: These are just facets of the same organization, and so

1021
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:08,840
Speaker 1: now in February of twenty twenty five, he no longer

1022
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:12,080
Speaker 1: works for any of these organizations. He no longer works

1023
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:16,639
Speaker 1: for Solidarity at all, because it was Roots who got

1024
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:18,719
Speaker 1: the organization into some pretty hot water.

1025
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:25,160
Speaker 11: Well, they're saying that we've the organizations that I was

1026
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:27,400
Speaker 11: involved with at the time of committed treason, that we've

1027
01:12:27,400 --> 01:12:28,439
Speaker 11: been charged for treason.

1028
01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:30,680
Speaker 1: E've been charged with treason? Yeah for what.

1029
01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:33,920
Speaker 11: For speaking well, among others, for me speaking with you

1030
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:37,360
Speaker 11: about what's happened as treason? Yeah, because it's bad mouthing

1031
01:12:37,439 --> 01:12:38,040
Speaker 11: your country.

1032
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:45,040
Speaker 1: I mean, we've all made mistakes at work, but I

1033
01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:49,080
Speaker 1: can't imagine making such a mess of things that somebody

1034
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:53,280
Speaker 1: gets charged with treason. And he's watering that down a

1035
01:12:53,280 --> 01:12:53,760
Speaker 1: little bit.

1036
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:54,120
Speaker 3: Right.

1037
01:12:54,560 --> 01:12:58,240
Speaker 1: The accusation isn't just that he's bad mouthing the country.

1038
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:01,200
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's legal in southfi forget to say negative

1039
01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:05,679
Speaker 1: things about the nation. But almost immediately after Trump announced

1040
01:13:05,720 --> 01:13:08,880
Speaker 1: that he was cutting off aid to South Africa, a

1041
01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:14,200
Speaker 1: lot of South Africans blamed Afro Forum. Members of Umkonto

1042
01:13:14,280 --> 01:13:16,840
Speaker 1: was Sisway rallied outside of the police station in Cape

1043
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:19,799
Speaker 1: Town and announced that they were filing a criminal complaint

1044
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:25,040
Speaker 1: against Affro Forum, accusing them of treason. And just a

1045
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:26,880
Speaker 1: quick note for those who aren't up to date on

1046
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:32,200
Speaker 1: their South African current events, I wasn't kanto a. Sisway

1047
01:13:32,280 --> 01:13:35,720
Speaker 1: is now its own political party. It does share a

1048
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:38,479
Speaker 1: name with the group that functioned as the paramilitary arm

1049
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:41,800
Speaker 1: of the African National Congress during the last decades of apartheid,

1050
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:44,679
Speaker 1: but as of a few years ago, it is a

1051
01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:45,599
Speaker 1: political party.

1052
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:52,560
Speaker 13: So just for clarity, the MK Party vehemently condemns the

1053
01:13:53,320 --> 01:13:57,720
Speaker 13: trees and us actions of Afri Forum, which has deliberately

1054
01:13:57,800 --> 01:14:01,720
Speaker 13: lobbied foreign powers to ed a game the sovereignty and

1055
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:06,639
Speaker 13: economic interests of South Africa. Their betrayal is nothing less

1056
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:11,240
Speaker 13: than an act of economic sabotage, a direct assault on

1057
01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:13,160
Speaker 13: our nation's independence.

1058
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:21,519
Speaker 1: For many South Africans, it was obvious Trump didn't come

1059
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:24,479
Speaker 1: up with this idea on his own. There is a

1060
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:29,599
Speaker 1: straight line between afrofums trips to the United States, their

1061
01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:34,000
Speaker 1: appearances in American right wing media, their collaboration with American

1062
01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:39,320
Speaker 1: think tanks, their English language propaganda videos targeting American audiences

1063
01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:44,559
Speaker 1: on American platforms, and the end result, which was this

1064
01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:49,360
Speaker 1: shift in US foreign policy. Even President Ramaposa has gone

1065
01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:53,880
Speaker 1: on record blaming Afroform and Solidarity for spreading the lies

1066
01:14:53,920 --> 01:14:58,439
Speaker 1: about South Africa that led to Trump's executive order. He

1067
01:14:58,520 --> 01:15:02,280
Speaker 1: called the group unpatriotic in remarks before the National Assembly

1068
01:15:02,320 --> 01:15:02,799
Speaker 1: in March.

1069
01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:08,280
Speaker 9: Fact whether that is treason US or not is a

1070
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:13,320
Speaker 9: matter not Obviously our law enforcement agencies need to look

1071
01:15:13,360 --> 01:15:17,200
Speaker 9: at the National Prosecuting Agency needs to look at that.

1072
01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:21,400
Speaker 9: But I take a dim view, in fact, a very

1073
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:26,960
Speaker 9: negative view of what has ensued as they run around

1074
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:32,040
Speaker 9: the world bed mouthing their own country and putting their

1075
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:36,920
Speaker 9: country into distribute, not by things that are happening, but

1076
01:15:37,240 --> 01:15:38,600
Speaker 9: by misinformation.

1077
01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:46,000
Speaker 1: The matter has been confirmed to be under investigation, but

1078
01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:48,880
Speaker 1: there has been no decision announced by the National Prosecuting

1079
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:53,680
Speaker 1: Authority as to whether the case will proceed. When Ramaposa

1080
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:57,320
Speaker 1: gave those remarks on March eleventh, twenty twenty five, he

1081
01:15:57,479 --> 01:16:00,960
Speaker 1: wasn't just talking about Eric's rutz going on. Tucker Carlson

1082
01:16:02,280 --> 01:16:05,080
Speaker 1: Roots had in fact already resigned from Solidarity by the

1083
01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:08,400
Speaker 1: time he returned to the US this year. But in

1084
01:16:08,479 --> 01:16:12,360
Speaker 1: late February, a delegation from Solidarity paid a visit to

1085
01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:16,160
Speaker 1: the United States. They posted quite a few videos of

1086
01:16:16,200 --> 01:16:20,559
Speaker 1: themselves outside various government buildings in Washington, d C. They

1087
01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:24,200
Speaker 1: posted some videos of them standing in lobbies of government buildings,

1088
01:16:24,240 --> 01:16:27,879
Speaker 1: and one photo that appears to show the delegation touring

1089
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:33,080
Speaker 1: the White House with visible visitors badges. There are no

1090
01:16:33,160 --> 01:16:35,400
Speaker 1: photos of any members of the delegation that I could

1091
01:16:35,439 --> 01:16:40,559
Speaker 1: find that show them with any actual US policymakers, but

1092
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:42,479
Speaker 1: they did take a couple of selfies in front of

1093
01:16:42,520 --> 01:16:47,200
Speaker 1: a sign that says Committee on Foreign Affairs. One photo

1094
01:16:47,320 --> 01:16:50,880
Speaker 1: was taken outside the office of Senator Christopher Coons, a

1095
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:53,280
Speaker 1: member of the Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs and its

1096
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:58,759
Speaker 1: Africa and Global Health Policy subcommittee. Their press releases about

1097
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:02,519
Speaker 1: this visit don't names, but they claimed to have met

1098
01:17:02,520 --> 01:17:05,519
Speaker 1: with senior officials within the Trump administration during their visit.

1099
01:17:06,960 --> 01:17:09,559
Speaker 1: There's no direct claim made that they met with the

1100
01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:14,000
Speaker 1: President himself, although one of them did post a cartoon

1101
01:17:14,120 --> 01:17:18,559
Speaker 1: style drawing of the group that features a cartoon Trump

1102
01:17:18,640 --> 01:17:20,840
Speaker 1: standing with them in front of the White House, and

1103
01:17:21,400 --> 01:17:24,120
Speaker 1: that has perhaps meant to insinuate that they were able

1104
01:17:24,120 --> 01:17:28,160
Speaker 1: to secure an audience with the president. But one member

1105
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:31,600
Speaker 1: of the delegation posted something that is more interesting to

1106
01:17:31,680 --> 01:17:35,799
Speaker 1: me than a selfie at the Capitol Building. On February

1107
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:41,080
Speaker 1: twenty seventh, Jako Kleinhans wrote Day three in Washington, d C.

1108
01:17:42,120 --> 01:17:47,160
Speaker 1: Who influences US government policy A complex network of individuals, organizations,

1109
01:17:47,200 --> 01:17:50,679
Speaker 1: and governmental and non governmental structures worked daily to develop

1110
01:17:50,760 --> 01:17:54,680
Speaker 1: US government policy. Recent policy decisions on the relationship with

1111
01:17:54,720 --> 01:17:57,200
Speaker 1: South Africa have been developed by a few key players

1112
01:17:57,200 --> 01:18:01,800
Speaker 1: at influential organizations, together with policy specialists in the White

1113
01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:05,720
Speaker 1: House and Congress. The Solidarity Movement delegation currently visiting the

1114
01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:09,040
Speaker 1: USA met on day three with several of these influential

1115
01:18:09,080 --> 01:18:12,439
Speaker 1: people with whom we have forged good relationships over the

1116
01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:17,639
Speaker 1: past few years, to discuss a way forward. And underneath

1117
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:22,120
Speaker 1: this wall of text posted in Afrikaans is a selfie.

1118
01:18:23,479 --> 01:18:26,760
Speaker 1: Visible in the photo behind Yako is the entrance to

1119
01:18:26,800 --> 01:18:31,360
Speaker 1: the offices of the Heritage Foundation. That conservative think tank

1120
01:18:31,479 --> 01:18:35,120
Speaker 1: is not, as far as I can tell, publicly commented

1121
01:18:35,200 --> 01:18:39,120
Speaker 1: on the recently serviced allegations that they worked closely with

1122
01:18:39,240 --> 01:18:43,120
Speaker 1: South African military intelligence to craft propaganda campaigns during the

1123
01:18:43,160 --> 01:18:47,400
Speaker 1: latter years of apartheid. South African news outlet The Daily

1124
01:18:47,439 --> 01:18:51,320
Speaker 1: Maverick did take extra care to note in their article

1125
01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:55,400
Speaker 1: that the Heritage Foundation has made no legal challenge to

1126
01:18:55,479 --> 01:18:58,040
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty one book by a former South African

1127
01:18:58,080 --> 01:19:02,719
Speaker 1: policeman who claims that former Heritage Foundation president Edwin Fulner

1128
01:19:03,680 --> 01:19:08,760
Speaker 1: was often consulted for advice high South African intelligence operatives

1129
01:19:09,080 --> 01:19:14,280
Speaker 1: who ran the governments apartheid disinformation campaigns, and if you

1130
01:19:14,320 --> 01:19:16,879
Speaker 1: can remember all the way back to the first episode

1131
01:19:16,880 --> 01:19:21,240
Speaker 1: in this series, the first time Trump tweeted about South Africa,

1132
01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:25,720
Speaker 1: he was watching Tucker Carlson interview a policy analyst from

1133
01:19:25,720 --> 01:19:32,960
Speaker 1: the Heritage Foundation. Just something to mull over, I guess,

1134
01:19:35,880 --> 01:19:38,439
Speaker 1: and whoever it was that the delegation was able to

1135
01:19:38,479 --> 01:19:41,880
Speaker 1: meet with at the White House, that person received an

1136
01:19:41,880 --> 01:19:46,080
Speaker 1: official memorandum from Solidarity, and they also posted that document

1137
01:19:46,120 --> 01:19:50,600
Speaker 1: to their website. Much like Ernst Rutz, they're grateful to

1138
01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:53,760
Speaker 1: the Trump administration for raising awareness about the plight of

1139
01:19:53,800 --> 01:19:58,280
Speaker 1: the white South African but they too want the United

1140
01:19:58,280 --> 01:20:01,519
Speaker 1: States to use its power to pressure South Africa to

1141
01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:05,200
Speaker 1: bend to the will of whites, rather than simply offering

1142
01:20:05,240 --> 01:20:08,720
Speaker 1: those aggrieved white South Africans the opportunity to settle in

1143
01:20:08,720 --> 01:20:12,960
Speaker 1: the United States. Much of the text of his memorandum

1144
01:20:13,120 --> 01:20:17,120
Speaker 1: reads pretty transparently as an attempt to smooth over the

1145
01:20:17,160 --> 01:20:23,080
Speaker 1: whole treeson situation. They emphasize repeatedly that they do not

1146
01:20:23,640 --> 01:20:28,000
Speaker 1: support Trump's decision to cut off humanitarian aid, and they

1147
01:20:28,120 --> 01:20:31,719
Speaker 1: urge Washington not to suspend the African Growth and Opportunity Act.

1148
01:20:32,439 --> 01:20:36,120
Speaker 1: A US law that allows some African nations, including South Africa,

1149
01:20:37,080 --> 01:20:42,240
Speaker 1: tariff free access to US markets. And as much as

1150
01:20:42,280 --> 01:20:47,760
Speaker 1: they appreciate Trump's offer to take Africaners as refugees, they

1151
01:20:47,800 --> 01:20:52,799
Speaker 1: want to stay. One section of the memo reads, although

1152
01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:55,920
Speaker 1: individuals may qualify for a resettlement program, the majority of

1153
01:20:55,920 --> 01:20:59,760
Speaker 1: Africaners will still remain in South Africa. During the past

1154
01:20:59,800 --> 01:21:03,760
Speaker 1: the three years, Africaners have begun to establish cultural infrastructure

1155
01:21:03,800 --> 01:21:06,360
Speaker 1: in South Africa so that we can still live here

1156
01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:09,080
Speaker 1: freely and safely in order for us to make a

1157
01:21:09,080 --> 01:21:12,680
Speaker 1: sustainable contribution toward the country and all its people. This

1158
01:21:12,840 --> 01:21:15,120
Speaker 1: is being done under the banner of the Solidarity movement,

1159
01:21:15,560 --> 01:21:20,760
Speaker 1: with Solidarity and Afrofum being the largest organizations. Security structures,

1160
01:21:20,840 --> 01:21:25,400
Speaker 1: social structures, job structures, training structures, and cultural structures have

1161
01:21:25,479 --> 01:21:28,800
Speaker 1: been established. All of this is being done without state

1162
01:21:28,840 --> 01:21:33,040
Speaker 1: support and at the bottom of that section they make

1163
01:21:33,120 --> 01:21:38,800
Speaker 1: several recommendations. They recommend the United States should, instead of

1164
01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:44,320
Speaker 1: offering refugee resettlement, offer direct aid to these Africaner communities

1165
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:50,960
Speaker 1: quote to assist with community infrastructure protecting Africaners. This includes

1166
01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:55,200
Speaker 1: security structure, social structures, job structure, training structures, and infrastructure

1167
01:21:56,040 --> 01:22:01,920
Speaker 1: to settle africaners in vulnerable places in a Hanson traded manner.

1168
01:22:03,240 --> 01:22:06,840
Speaker 1: So they're saying they want help moving all of the

1169
01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:11,120
Speaker 1: white people to a place in South Africa. Still they

1170
01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:13,120
Speaker 1: don't want to leave South Africa, but they need help

1171
01:22:13,160 --> 01:22:16,719
Speaker 1: moving all of the white people into a concentrated place.

1172
01:22:16,840 --> 01:22:22,360
Speaker 1: So a place that's all white. And that sounds kind

1173
01:22:22,360 --> 01:22:27,719
Speaker 1: of like a mini ethno state, a folkstot, if you will,

1174
01:22:28,600 --> 01:22:32,840
Speaker 1: an island of apartheid and a sea of integration, and

1175
01:22:32,880 --> 01:22:39,000
Speaker 1: that does in fact already exist. And here's where I

1176
01:22:39,040 --> 01:22:43,519
Speaker 1: have to confess something to you. I overlooked something in

1177
01:22:43,560 --> 01:22:47,800
Speaker 1: retrospect pretty obvious. Remember I said a few minutes ago

1178
01:22:47,840 --> 01:22:50,920
Speaker 1: that Ernst Rutz had resigned from his position with Solidarity

1179
01:22:51,640 --> 01:22:53,360
Speaker 1: and his trip to the United States in March of

1180
01:22:53,400 --> 01:22:59,639
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five was totally separate from this delegation. Well

1181
01:23:00,080 --> 01:23:03,519
Speaker 1: might not have actually been that separate. I mean they

1182
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:07,080
Speaker 1: flew here separately, they were here during different weeks, and

1183
01:23:07,160 --> 01:23:11,479
Speaker 1: they claimed to be from separate organizations. Roots was here

1184
01:23:11,479 --> 01:23:15,439
Speaker 1: in the United States with Used Stridum, the current CEO

1185
01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:20,120
Speaker 1: of Urania, a white separatist community in South Africa's Northern

1186
01:23:20,120 --> 01:23:26,000
Speaker 1: Cape province, Yako Kleinhans, the International Liaison for Solidarity, who

1187
01:23:26,120 --> 01:23:30,400
Speaker 1: was here with that other delegation. He used to be

1188
01:23:30,439 --> 01:23:33,920
Speaker 1: the CEO of Rania. He and his family lived there.

1189
01:23:35,120 --> 01:23:38,240
Speaker 1: His wife, Magdalene, was featured in a Guardian article about

1190
01:23:38,240 --> 01:23:42,120
Speaker 1: the community in twenty nineteen. She runs the call center

1191
01:23:42,160 --> 01:23:47,639
Speaker 1: in Irania that recruits members and solicits donations. So they're

1192
01:23:47,680 --> 01:23:52,240
Speaker 1: the same people. The Venn diagram is a circle. They

1193
01:23:52,280 --> 01:23:56,000
Speaker 1: present slightly different public faces. I mean, Solidarity was allowed

1194
01:23:56,040 --> 01:23:59,320
Speaker 1: into the White House while the delegation officially from Irania

1195
01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:02,120
Speaker 1: was stuck doing it events like Wine Wednesday at the

1196
01:24:02,120 --> 01:24:06,640
Speaker 1: New York Young Republicans Club. But it's sort of like

1197
01:24:06,720 --> 01:24:10,040
Speaker 1: how sometimes the name brand ketchup and the store brand

1198
01:24:10,080 --> 01:24:12,920
Speaker 1: ketchup are made at the same factory and they just

1199
01:24:13,000 --> 01:24:17,280
Speaker 1: package them in different bottles. The two groups traveled the

1200
01:24:17,400 --> 01:24:21,280
Speaker 1: United States separately a few weeks apart. They met with

1201
01:24:21,320 --> 01:24:25,040
Speaker 1: slightly different crowds and marketed the message ever so slightly differently.

1202
01:24:26,040 --> 01:24:29,080
Speaker 1: But ultimately what they want is for the United States

1203
01:24:29,120 --> 01:24:32,679
Speaker 1: to officially recognize their three point five square mile whites

1204
01:24:32,760 --> 01:24:36,679
Speaker 1: only town of three thousand people as an autonomous state.

1205
01:24:39,400 --> 01:24:43,160
Speaker 1: And in February, while that first delegation, the one from Solidarity,

1206
01:24:43,200 --> 01:24:46,960
Speaker 1: was in Washington, d C. An American neo Nazi group,

1207
01:24:47,120 --> 01:24:52,799
Speaker 1: posted photos of their trip to South Africa. A regional

1208
01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:57,000
Speaker 1: chapter within the Active Club Network visited Urania quote to

1209
01:24:57,040 --> 01:25:00,800
Speaker 1: gain a deeper understanding of how whites can form intention communities.

1210
01:25:02,520 --> 01:25:05,520
Speaker 1: During the first week of March, the delegation from Solidarity

1211
01:25:05,560 --> 01:25:07,439
Speaker 1: finished out their trip in the United States with a

1212
01:25:07,520 --> 01:25:13,720
Speaker 1: visit to California. Specifically, they went to Los Angeles. More specifically,

1213
01:25:13,800 --> 01:25:16,960
Speaker 1: they had lunch with Joel Pollock, the editor at large

1214
01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:21,439
Speaker 1: of the far right rag Breitbart. After lunch, Pollock tweeted

1215
01:25:21,439 --> 01:25:25,200
Speaker 1: a photo captioned just had lunch at a kosher restaurant

1216
01:25:25,200 --> 01:25:29,120
Speaker 1: owned by Steven Spielberg's mom with four gentlemen from afroform

1217
01:25:29,200 --> 01:25:33,080
Speaker 1: Slash Solidarity. The South African government is investigating them for

1218
01:25:33,160 --> 01:25:36,120
Speaker 1: treason for the crime of sharing their views of Americans.

1219
01:25:37,040 --> 01:25:43,519
Speaker 1: The treason was delicious, okay, Joel, not to nitpick, and

1220
01:25:43,600 --> 01:25:50,679
Speaker 1: first of all, super cringe, but Steven Spielberg's mom is dead, LEEA. Adler,

1221
01:25:50,800 --> 01:25:54,320
Speaker 1: Spielberg's mother did open the restaurant The Milky Way in

1222
01:25:54,360 --> 01:25:58,160
Speaker 1: Los Angeles in nineteen seventy seven, but the restaurant closed

1223
01:25:58,200 --> 01:26:02,200
Speaker 1: after her death in twenty seventeen. Her children reopened the

1224
01:26:02,240 --> 01:26:05,920
Speaker 1: restaurant in twenty nineteen. So it is still the same

1225
01:26:06,000 --> 01:26:09,479
Speaker 1: restaurant in the same place, but it isn't owned by

1226
01:26:09,479 --> 01:26:13,000
Speaker 1: a woman who's been dead for eight years. But it's

1227
01:26:13,040 --> 01:26:15,679
Speaker 1: probably much more important that you know one other fact

1228
01:26:15,720 --> 01:26:19,559
Speaker 1: about this lunch. At the time, in the first week

1229
01:26:19,560 --> 01:26:23,240
Speaker 1: of March of twenty twenty five, Joel Pollock was widely

1230
01:26:23,280 --> 01:26:26,719
Speaker 1: believed to be Trump's pick from ambassador to South Africa.

1231
01:26:28,040 --> 01:26:32,080
Speaker 1: There'd been no official public nomination, but Pollock was out

1232
01:26:32,120 --> 01:26:34,400
Speaker 1: there telling people that and going on the news in

1233
01:26:34,479 --> 01:26:39,479
Speaker 1: South Africa to that effect. And after lunch, Yacho Klein

1234
01:26:39,560 --> 01:26:43,599
Speaker 1: Hunts from Solidarity reposted that picture and offered his full

1235
01:26:43,600 --> 01:26:49,439
Speaker 1: throated endorsement of Pollock's appointment as ambassador. But barely two

1236
01:26:49,520 --> 01:26:53,160
Speaker 1: weeks after that lunch, Joel Pollock's chances of getting that

1237
01:26:53,280 --> 01:26:58,439
Speaker 1: job dropped to mere zero. Things were already a little

1238
01:26:58,479 --> 01:27:02,040
Speaker 1: dicey for him, considering he'd been publicly calling for sanctions

1239
01:27:02,080 --> 01:27:07,040
Speaker 1: against President Cyril Ramaposa personally specifically because of South Africa's

1240
01:27:07,040 --> 01:27:10,920
Speaker 1: continued opposition to the genocide and Gaza. But the nail

1241
01:27:10,920 --> 01:27:14,400
Speaker 1: in the coffin really seems to have been his direct

1242
01:27:15,000 --> 01:27:19,680
Speaker 1: personal involvement in the expulsion of South Africa's ambassador to

1243
01:27:19,720 --> 01:27:26,439
Speaker 1: the United States. On March fourteenth, twenty twenty five, the

1244
01:27:26,560 --> 01:27:31,880
Speaker 1: United States of America expelled a foreign diplomat. This sort

1245
01:27:31,880 --> 01:27:35,840
Speaker 1: of thing happens from time to time. Article nine of

1246
01:27:35,880 --> 01:27:39,799
Speaker 1: the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations establishes a pretty broad

1247
01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:43,840
Speaker 1: authority for this quote. The receiving state may, at any time,

1248
01:27:43,880 --> 01:27:46,920
Speaker 1: and without having to explain its decision, notify the sending

1249
01:27:46,920 --> 01:27:48,960
Speaker 1: state that the head of the mission or any member

1250
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:52,439
Speaker 1: of the diplomatic staff of the mission is persona non grata.

1251
01:27:54,720 --> 01:27:58,280
Speaker 1: It wasn't uncommon during the Cold War, usually after allegations

1252
01:27:58,280 --> 01:28:02,200
Speaker 1: of espionage, whether real or imagined, and it can be

1253
01:28:02,240 --> 01:28:04,840
Speaker 1: a way for a country to send a political message

1254
01:28:05,360 --> 01:28:08,080
Speaker 1: to say to a country, we're kind of upset with

1255
01:28:08,120 --> 01:28:12,280
Speaker 1: you right now, even if the diplomatic staff themselves haven't

1256
01:28:12,320 --> 01:28:17,000
Speaker 1: done anything wrong. Several countries expelled Syrian diplomats in twenty

1257
01:28:17,040 --> 01:28:21,479
Speaker 1: twelve in response to the murder of civilians Inhala. In

1258
01:28:21,479 --> 01:28:25,280
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, President Aragon declared diplomats from ten countries

1259
01:28:25,640 --> 01:28:29,439
Speaker 1: persona non Grata and Turkey after those countries governments had

1260
01:28:29,479 --> 01:28:33,799
Speaker 1: called for the release of an imprisoned Turkish activist. Several

1261
01:28:33,840 --> 01:28:37,320
Speaker 1: Israeli diplomats were expelled from Britain and Australia in twenty

1262
01:28:37,360 --> 01:28:41,240
Speaker 1: ten after both countries discovered that Israel had used forged

1263
01:28:41,320 --> 01:28:45,800
Speaker 1: British and Australian passports to carry out assassinations in Dubai.

1264
01:28:47,080 --> 01:28:50,360
Speaker 1: In twenty eleven, the US ambassador to Ecuador was expelled

1265
01:28:50,800 --> 01:28:54,760
Speaker 1: after Wikiliks revealed that she believed President Korea had been

1266
01:28:54,800 --> 01:28:58,559
Speaker 1: aware of corruption within his police force. In the United

1267
01:28:58,600 --> 01:29:04,200
Speaker 1: States responded by expelling Ecuador's ambassador in return. And sometimes

1268
01:29:04,200 --> 01:29:07,439
Speaker 1: it's not even political. The decision may be the result

1269
01:29:07,520 --> 01:29:11,240
Speaker 1: of personal misconduct by a member of the diplomatic staff.

1270
01:29:12,400 --> 01:29:16,439
Speaker 1: With some rather specific exceptions, ambassadors and their staff have

1271
01:29:16,560 --> 01:29:21,480
Speaker 1: diplomatic immunity. They can't be prosecuted, but they can be expelled.

1272
01:29:22,439 --> 01:29:25,120
Speaker 1: So for example, in twenty seventeen, New Zealand had to

1273
01:29:25,160 --> 01:29:27,760
Speaker 1: expel an American diplomat after the man got into some

1274
01:29:27,840 --> 01:29:32,320
Speaker 1: kind of violent physical altercation and the American government refused

1275
01:29:32,320 --> 01:29:34,840
Speaker 1: to waive his diplomatic community so that he could be prosecuted.

1276
01:29:36,360 --> 01:29:39,720
Speaker 1: In twenty twelve, the Philippines expelled the Panamanian diplomatic used

1277
01:29:39,760 --> 01:29:44,040
Speaker 1: of rape. Honestly, a lot of the examples of this

1278
01:29:44,200 --> 01:29:48,320
Speaker 1: that I found were related to lower level embassy staff

1279
01:29:48,439 --> 01:29:52,479
Speaker 1: who got drunk, got a dui, got into fights, or

1280
01:29:53,160 --> 01:29:56,960
Speaker 1: committed some kind of sex crime. There have also been

1281
01:29:57,640 --> 01:30:00,439
Speaker 1: more than a few cases of diplomatic use used of

1282
01:30:00,560 --> 01:30:05,920
Speaker 1: using their position to facilitate drug trafficking. So it does happen.

1283
01:30:07,080 --> 01:30:11,000
Speaker 1: It doesn't even seem particularly rare, especially if you're including

1284
01:30:11,040 --> 01:30:15,240
Speaker 1: these examples of lower level embassy staff who maybe got

1285
01:30:15,280 --> 01:30:20,000
Speaker 1: in a bar fight, but it doesn't usually happen. By tweet,

1286
01:30:21,400 --> 01:30:26,800
Speaker 1: let's work backwards. At four forty two pm Eastern Time.

1287
01:30:27,280 --> 01:30:31,599
Speaker 1: On March fourteenth, twenty twenty five, Secretary of State Marco

1288
01:30:31,680 --> 01:30:36,800
Speaker 1: Rubio tweeted South Africa's ambassador to the United States is

1289
01:30:36,880 --> 01:30:40,680
Speaker 1: no longer welcome in our great country. Ibrahim Rasul is

1290
01:30:40,720 --> 01:30:44,040
Speaker 1: a race baiting politician who hates America and hates Potus.

1291
01:30:45,000 --> 01:30:47,479
Speaker 1: We have nothing to discuss with him, and so he

1292
01:30:47,600 --> 01:30:52,240
Speaker 1: is considered persona non growd up. That last bit is

1293
01:30:52,280 --> 01:30:54,840
Speaker 1: in all caps, which is why I had to yell it,

1294
01:30:55,960 --> 01:30:59,120
Speaker 1: and for the record, on that read, I did pronounce

1295
01:30:59,240 --> 01:31:03,439
Speaker 1: Ibra Hume Rusul's name Ibrahim Razul, which is his name.

1296
01:31:04,000 --> 01:31:10,960
Speaker 1: But in this I guess official State Department tweet, Marco

1297
01:31:11,040 --> 01:31:18,080
Speaker 1: Rubio did misspell his name as Emrahim Rascoul, so take

1298
01:31:18,120 --> 01:31:22,559
Speaker 1: that as you will. But Rubio's tweet included a link

1299
01:31:22,680 --> 01:31:26,840
Speaker 1: to a Breitbart article, the headline of which is South

1300
01:31:26,840 --> 01:31:31,080
Speaker 1: African Ambassador Ibrahim Razul Colan Trump is leading global white

1301
01:31:31,120 --> 01:31:37,599
Speaker 1: supremacist movement. The article, written by Joel Pollock, had gone

1302
01:31:37,640 --> 01:31:41,880
Speaker 1: up earlier that same day. Article might not be the

1303
01:31:41,960 --> 01:31:44,840
Speaker 1: right word for it. I don't know what you call

1304
01:31:45,320 --> 01:31:49,599
Speaker 1: what appears on Breitbart's website, but Pollock only actually wrote

1305
01:31:50,439 --> 01:31:55,400
Speaker 1: six sentences in the original piece, but those sentences frame

1306
01:31:55,520 --> 01:31:59,760
Speaker 1: the actual content. It's a video clip accompanied by a

1307
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:03,479
Speaker 1: trescript of the video of statements made by South African

1308
01:32:03,479 --> 01:32:07,520
Speaker 1: Ambassador Ibrahim Russell during a webinar hosted by the Mapungubwe

1309
01:32:07,600 --> 01:32:11,240
Speaker 1: Institute for Strategic Reflection, a South African think tank just

1310
01:32:11,280 --> 01:32:13,000
Speaker 1: called MISTRA for short.

1311
01:32:16,160 --> 01:32:23,440
Speaker 2: What Donald Trump is launching is an assault on incumbency

1312
01:32:24,280 --> 01:32:31,320
Speaker 2: those who are in power by mobilizing a supremacism against

1313
01:32:31,400 --> 01:32:36,679
Speaker 2: the incumbency at home. And I think i've Illustrated abroad

1314
01:32:36,760 --> 01:32:37,280
Speaker 2: as well.

1315
01:32:40,720 --> 01:32:44,240
Speaker 1: He was speaking to a small group of academics and

1316
01:32:44,360 --> 01:32:47,360
Speaker 1: rasoul Is talking about the ways in which American politics

1317
01:32:47,360 --> 01:32:52,519
Speaker 1: have changed. He later explained to a reporter, my remarks

1318
01:32:52,560 --> 01:32:57,000
Speaker 1: were speaking to South African intelligentsia, intellectuals, political leaders, and

1319
01:32:57,040 --> 01:33:00,280
Speaker 1: others to alert them to a changed tradition in the

1320
01:33:00,360 --> 01:33:02,360
Speaker 1: United States that the old way of doing business with

1321
01:33:02,400 --> 01:33:03,760
Speaker 1: the US was not going to work.

1322
01:33:05,439 --> 01:33:05,519
Speaker 2: Now.

1323
01:33:05,600 --> 01:33:08,760
Speaker 1: I watched most of that webinar. I'm not gonna lie

1324
01:33:08,800 --> 01:33:10,120
Speaker 1: in his two hours long I didn't watch all of it.

1325
01:33:10,200 --> 01:33:13,479
Speaker 1: I watched most of that webinar, but I watched all

1326
01:33:13,560 --> 01:33:17,720
Speaker 1: of the parts where Ibrahim Razula speaking, and nothing he

1327
01:33:17,840 --> 01:33:24,320
Speaker 1: said felt shocking to me. He wasn't being hysterical or hyperbolic.

1328
01:33:25,040 --> 01:33:28,800
Speaker 1: He's not tearing his hair and gnashing his teeth. He

1329
01:33:28,880 --> 01:33:31,400
Speaker 1: had some interesting observations about the way the white South

1330
01:33:31,400 --> 01:33:35,320
Speaker 1: African functions as a rhetorical dog whistle for white victimhood

1331
01:33:35,400 --> 01:33:40,720
Speaker 1: within Trump's narrative. But he didn't say anything wild. He's

1332
01:33:40,760 --> 01:33:44,600
Speaker 1: not calling for violence or talking about radical shifts in policy.

1333
01:33:45,840 --> 01:33:51,120
Speaker 1: He's a diplomat, right. He was just making correct observations

1334
01:33:51,160 --> 01:33:54,560
Speaker 1: about the political climate that it is his job to navigate,

1335
01:33:56,320 --> 01:34:02,160
Speaker 1: but those remarks, with Joel Pollock's sixth sentence commentary made

1336
01:34:02,200 --> 01:34:06,960
Speaker 1: their way to Marco Rubio within hours, and by that afternoon,

1337
01:34:07,479 --> 01:34:11,320
Speaker 1: Rubio had declared Rasoul persona nograda and ordered him to

1338
01:34:11,400 --> 01:34:16,720
Speaker 1: leave the United States. When Rozoul arrived home in South

1339
01:34:16,720 --> 01:34:21,080
Speaker 1: Africa on March twenty third, he issued a statement He's

1340
01:34:21,120 --> 01:34:25,320
Speaker 1: standing by what he said about the Trump administration, and

1341
01:34:25,400 --> 01:34:29,320
Speaker 1: his four page statement has some real bangers. It goes

1342
01:34:29,360 --> 01:34:33,559
Speaker 1: pretty hard as far as diplomatic statements go. Quote, when

1343
01:34:33,680 --> 01:34:36,880
Speaker 1: we have been the victims of apartheid and saw how

1344
01:34:36,880 --> 01:34:40,920
Speaker 1: it cannot tolerate free speech and independent judiciary or even

1345
01:34:41,000 --> 01:34:45,200
Speaker 1: peaceful dissent, then we can smell the birth of chauvinism

1346
01:34:45,240 --> 01:34:49,320
Speaker 1: globally since the fear it engenders, hear its words and

1347
01:34:49,479 --> 01:34:54,839
Speaker 1: see its signs. And Rasoul says that quote. In meetings

1348
01:34:54,840 --> 01:34:57,800
Speaker 1: with Senators and congress members, and in the weekly forums

1349
01:34:57,880 --> 01:35:00,960
Speaker 1: we addressed of think tanks and businesses soociations, and in

1350
01:35:01,040 --> 01:35:05,120
Speaker 1: the few meetings with the administration, we were forced to

1351
01:35:05,160 --> 01:35:09,720
Speaker 1: discuss seriously how africaners could be refugees in the USA.

1352
01:35:10,439 --> 01:35:13,760
Speaker 1: While A and C leaders are threatened with personal sanctions.

1353
01:35:14,560 --> 01:35:17,280
Speaker 1: We had to avoid arguing how there was a genocide

1354
01:35:17,280 --> 01:35:21,320
Speaker 1: in Israel. But diplomacy is not the art of lying.

1355
01:35:22,479 --> 01:35:25,480
Speaker 1: It is the art of telling the truth gently and constructively.

1356
01:35:27,920 --> 01:35:30,560
Speaker 1: Pollack sees on one line of that statement, in particular,

1357
01:35:31,160 --> 01:35:34,799
Speaker 1: a parenthetical mention of an anonymous participant in the webinar,

1358
01:35:35,320 --> 01:35:40,120
Speaker 1: who Razoul calls one ex South African anti intellectual hatchetman

1359
01:35:40,280 --> 01:35:44,519
Speaker 1: hiding under a pseudonym, and that's obviously a reference to

1360
01:35:44,680 --> 01:35:50,760
Speaker 1: Joel Pollock. Rasoul is implying that Pollock himself not only

1361
01:35:50,840 --> 01:35:56,160
Speaker 1: joined that webinar alive, but participated in it without disclosing

1362
01:35:56,200 --> 01:36:00,800
Speaker 1: his name or affiliation, and in this case his affiliation

1363
01:36:00,920 --> 01:36:06,040
Speaker 1: would be editor of American conservative website brightbart dot com

1364
01:36:06,760 --> 01:36:11,280
Speaker 1: and also current contender for American Ambassador to South Africa.

1365
01:36:12,960 --> 01:36:15,960
Speaker 1: Because during the Q and A portion, the moderator read

1366
01:36:16,000 --> 01:36:20,240
Speaker 1: submitted questions out loud, and when he did so, he

1367
01:36:20,320 --> 01:36:23,600
Speaker 1: read the question asker's name, and when the question was

1368
01:36:23,600 --> 01:36:28,080
Speaker 1: from a reporter, the name of the outlet. The very

1369
01:36:28,120 --> 01:36:32,960
Speaker 1: first question though, was from anonymous.

1370
01:36:34,840 --> 01:36:38,280
Speaker 14: First, because I like to start with something funny, an

1371
01:36:38,360 --> 01:36:42,840
Speaker 14: anonymous comment for Ambassador to Soul Ambassador to Szool's analysis

1372
01:36:42,840 --> 01:36:45,679
Speaker 14: of the US may be correct. However, he's doing South

1373
01:36:45,720 --> 01:36:48,559
Speaker 14: Africa and no service by speaking this way. His job

1374
01:36:48,640 --> 01:36:51,479
Speaker 14: is to represent South African interests in Washington, not to

1375
01:36:51,520 --> 01:36:53,880
Speaker 14: be a left wing militant ambassador to Soul.

1376
01:36:57,560 --> 01:37:00,799
Speaker 1: Now, can I tell you for sure that that question

1377
01:37:00,920 --> 01:37:04,040
Speaker 1: was submitted by Joel Pollock. Of course not, but that

1378
01:37:04,080 --> 01:37:06,800
Speaker 1: appears to be what Ibrahim Rasoul is implying in his

1379
01:37:06,880 --> 01:37:12,000
Speaker 1: statement that he believes that Pollock tweeted a screenshot of

1380
01:37:12,000 --> 01:37:16,519
Speaker 1: that portion of the statement and said ex Ambassador Ibrahim

1381
01:37:16,600 --> 01:37:19,639
Speaker 1: Ruscoul believes he was done in by a spy. Good

1382
01:37:19,760 --> 01:37:23,360
Speaker 1: luck hunting. I watched his remarks on YouTube after they

1383
01:37:23,400 --> 01:37:28,120
Speaker 1: had been publicly available at Miestra's channel for hours. Is

1384
01:37:28,160 --> 01:37:31,160
Speaker 1: in competence and defense to defamation in South African law.

1385
01:37:33,600 --> 01:37:37,280
Speaker 1: So Pollack is in this tweet insinuating that he could

1386
01:37:37,360 --> 01:37:43,160
Speaker 1: sue Ibrahim Rescoul for defamation for implying that Pollock was

1387
01:37:43,160 --> 01:37:47,719
Speaker 1: in the webinar. I don't know anything about South African law,

1388
01:37:48,080 --> 01:37:51,120
Speaker 1: but I don't think in an American court a claim

1389
01:37:51,160 --> 01:37:53,760
Speaker 1: of defamation would hold up because he didn't actually say

1390
01:37:53,840 --> 01:37:58,920
Speaker 1: Joel Pollock's name. I guess if Joel Pollock identifies publicly

1391
01:37:59,479 --> 01:38:03,360
Speaker 1: as an anti intellectual hatchet man. He's welcome to make

1392
01:38:03,360 --> 01:38:07,240
Speaker 1: that argument in court. But I digress, because back to

1393
01:38:07,280 --> 01:38:11,599
Speaker 1: his actual claim. He's saying he wasn't in the webinar live.

1394
01:38:12,000 --> 01:38:15,880
Speaker 1: He watched the replay on YouTube hours after the event ended.

1395
01:38:17,320 --> 01:38:21,479
Speaker 1: And the problem with that is that it isn't true.

1396
01:38:21,760 --> 01:38:26,240
Speaker 1: The webinar was live. You could pre register and participate

1397
01:38:26,280 --> 01:38:28,840
Speaker 1: in the Zoom meeting, or you could just watch it

1398
01:38:29,160 --> 01:38:33,080
Speaker 1: live on YouTube. And the event was from ten am

1399
01:38:33,240 --> 01:38:37,879
Speaker 1: to noon Johannesburg time, and that means that it started

1400
01:38:37,920 --> 01:38:41,519
Speaker 1: at four am here on the East Coast and one

1401
01:38:41,600 --> 01:38:46,680
Speaker 1: am in California, which is where Joel Pollack lives. And

1402
01:38:46,720 --> 01:38:50,320
Speaker 1: I'm reasonably certain he was indeed in California that day

1403
01:38:51,360 --> 01:38:54,200
Speaker 1: because the night before he posted a photo of the sunset,

1404
01:38:54,880 --> 01:38:57,280
Speaker 1: and that morning he posted a photo of the sun rise,

1405
01:38:58,760 --> 01:39:01,600
Speaker 1: and both photos were posted at the time that the

1406
01:39:01,640 --> 01:39:04,479
Speaker 1: sun rose and set in the part of California where

1407
01:39:04,479 --> 01:39:09,640
Speaker 1: he lives, and there are visible palm trees. So when

1408
01:39:09,720 --> 01:39:12,960
Speaker 1: Joel Pollock tweeted the link to his article at eight

1409
01:39:13,040 --> 01:39:18,120
Speaker 1: forty five am Eastern Time, that's five forty five am

1410
01:39:18,240 --> 01:39:21,559
Speaker 1: where he lives, and the source code for the web

1411
01:39:21,600 --> 01:39:23,880
Speaker 1: page shows that the article went live at eight thirty

1412
01:39:23,880 --> 01:39:28,520
Speaker 1: five am Eastern. Again, that's five thirty five am Pacific,

1413
01:39:29,600 --> 01:39:32,719
Speaker 1: and that's two and a half hours after the event ended.

1414
01:39:34,040 --> 01:39:37,640
Speaker 1: Those six sentences didn't take two hours to write, but

1415
01:39:37,680 --> 01:39:40,840
Speaker 1: he would have had to download the entire video, cut

1416
01:39:40,840 --> 01:39:44,160
Speaker 1: the sections he wanted to post, transcribe those sections, and

1417
01:39:44,560 --> 01:39:49,920
Speaker 1: get everything onto the website. The other problem, though, is

1418
01:39:49,960 --> 01:39:52,080
Speaker 1: not how long it would have taken to cut the clips.

1419
01:39:53,240 --> 01:39:56,519
Speaker 1: It's that he could not have watched a two hour

1420
01:39:56,640 --> 01:40:01,200
Speaker 1: video and then written the article if he didn't start

1421
01:40:01,240 --> 01:40:06,360
Speaker 1: watching the video until quote hours after the event ended

1422
01:40:06,680 --> 01:40:11,200
Speaker 1: and the final video was available for playback online. An

1423
01:40:11,200 --> 01:40:13,160
Speaker 1: op ed written by the director of the think tank

1424
01:40:13,200 --> 01:40:17,160
Speaker 1: that hosted the event takes aim at Pollock, arguing that

1425
01:40:17,240 --> 01:40:19,599
Speaker 1: it was no accident that his article made its way

1426
01:40:19,640 --> 01:40:23,640
Speaker 1: to the White House so quickly. Quote Russeul has been

1427
01:40:23,760 --> 01:40:27,680
Speaker 1: articulating these views and other interactions with US audiences. The

1428
01:40:27,720 --> 01:40:30,360
Speaker 1: difference in this case is that Joel Pollack at Breitbart

1429
01:40:30,400 --> 01:40:34,000
Speaker 1: News himself, campaigning to be US Ambassador in South Africa,

1430
01:40:34,760 --> 01:40:40,560
Speaker 1: selectively quoted from Russeul's presentation deliberately to incite the US administration.

1431
01:40:44,200 --> 01:40:48,240
Speaker 1: But Joel Pollock got what he wanted, kind of. He

1432
01:40:48,280 --> 01:40:52,280
Speaker 1: got Ibrahim Russell expelled from the United States, got him fired.

1433
01:40:53,320 --> 01:40:56,400
Speaker 1: Ibrahim russeul isn't the ambassador to the United States anymore.

1434
01:40:58,000 --> 01:41:01,160
Speaker 1: It's a bit of a monkey's pause situation for Joel Pollock,

1435
01:41:01,240 --> 01:41:05,440
Speaker 1: though the whole affair ended up ruining his own ambitions

1436
01:41:05,479 --> 01:41:09,800
Speaker 1: of becoming an ambassador. Within days of all this going down,

1437
01:41:10,439 --> 01:41:14,280
Speaker 1: Julius Malema's Economic Freedom Fighter's party vowed that they would

1438
01:41:14,320 --> 01:41:17,720
Speaker 1: block Pollock from entering South Africa at all if he

1439
01:41:17,760 --> 01:41:21,439
Speaker 1: was appointed ambassador, and they said that they could ensure

1440
01:41:21,520 --> 01:41:26,600
Speaker 1: President Ramaposo wouldn't accept the appointment. A presidential spokesman was

1441
01:41:26,640 --> 01:41:29,640
Speaker 1: a little more diplomatic about this, but they did go

1442
01:41:29,720 --> 01:41:33,160
Speaker 1: on the record that the President was concerned about the

1443
01:41:33,200 --> 01:41:37,640
Speaker 1: possibility of Pollock being appointed ambassador because quote, he is

1444
01:41:37,680 --> 01:41:41,400
Speaker 1: engaged in a very divisive and very damaging manner towards

1445
01:41:41,400 --> 01:41:46,800
Speaker 1: South Africa and South Africa related issues. By March twenty six,

1446
01:41:47,200 --> 01:41:50,200
Speaker 1: just twelve days after Pollock's post cost Ambassador to School

1447
01:41:50,200 --> 01:41:53,760
Speaker 1: his job, it was clear that he'd cost himself the

1448
01:41:53,800 --> 01:41:58,240
Speaker 1: ambassador's job too. Trump boasted on truth Social that he

1449
01:41:58,280 --> 01:42:01,920
Speaker 1: would be nominating Brent Bozell as the United States Ambassador

1450
01:42:01,920 --> 01:42:14,000
Speaker 1: to South Africa. Brent Mozelle is not a better choice.

1451
01:42:14,800 --> 01:42:18,400
Speaker 1: There's a lot of history behind that name, especially considering

1452
01:42:18,439 --> 01:42:21,519
Speaker 1: he shares it with his father, Leo Brent Mozell the Second.

1453
01:42:22,680 --> 01:42:26,440
Speaker 1: He was William F. Buckley's best friend and Joseph McCarthy's

1454
01:42:26,520 --> 01:42:30,120
Speaker 1: speech writer. And then there is of course his son,

1455
01:42:30,320 --> 01:42:33,720
Speaker 1: Leo Brent Bozell the fourth, who was convicted of five

1456
01:42:33,760 --> 01:42:36,200
Speaker 1: felonies before getting pardoned along with all of the other

1457
01:42:36,280 --> 01:42:40,040
Speaker 1: January six rioters. And we can't get into all that

1458
01:42:40,840 --> 01:42:44,720
Speaker 1: not today. The thing you might be interested to know

1459
01:42:44,920 --> 01:42:49,439
Speaker 1: about Leo Brent Mozell the Third is that he pretty

1460
01:42:49,560 --> 01:42:54,240
Speaker 1: actively opposed the idea of ending apartheid, and not just

1461
01:42:54,280 --> 01:42:57,840
Speaker 1: as a casual private opinion. This wasn't an ugly thought

1462
01:42:57,880 --> 01:42:59,680
Speaker 1: he was having at home by himself.

1463
01:43:00,320 --> 01:43:00,360
Speaker 4: No.

1464
01:43:01,080 --> 01:43:03,840
Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty seven he was the head of the

1465
01:43:03,920 --> 01:43:08,439
Speaker 1: National Conservative Political Action Committee, and in that capacity he

1466
01:43:08,560 --> 01:43:11,280
Speaker 1: signed on as a coalition partner for a group called

1467
01:43:11,720 --> 01:43:16,320
Speaker 1: the Coalition Against a n C Terrorism, and that year

1468
01:43:16,400 --> 01:43:19,320
Speaker 1: the group hosted a summit to oppose a meeting between

1469
01:43:19,320 --> 01:43:22,680
Speaker 1: the US Secretary of State and Oliver Tambo, who was

1470
01:43:22,760 --> 01:43:25,080
Speaker 1: at the time the leader of the African National Congress.

1471
01:43:26,560 --> 01:43:30,599
Speaker 1: And speakers at the summit that they held included policy

1472
01:43:30,640 --> 01:43:35,400
Speaker 1: analysts from groups like the Heritage Foundation. They also brought

1473
01:43:35,439 --> 01:43:40,920
Speaker 1: in a South African political activist named John Gogotya. Gogatya

1474
01:43:41,040 --> 01:43:44,519
Speaker 1: was the founder and leader of a political organization in

1475
01:43:44,560 --> 01:43:49,880
Speaker 1: South Africa. It was allegedly a group of black moderates

1476
01:43:49,920 --> 01:43:55,599
Speaker 1: who opposed multi racial democracy. Gogotya actually made several trips

1477
01:43:55,600 --> 01:43:58,920
Speaker 1: to the United States to lobby against US sanctions on

1478
01:43:58,960 --> 01:44:03,360
Speaker 1: the apartheid regime. He did turn out to be employed

1479
01:44:03,360 --> 01:44:09,600
Speaker 1: by South African military intelligence, but you probably already guessed that.

1480
01:44:09,600 --> 01:44:13,040
Speaker 1: That same year, nineteen eighty seven, Bozell produced a series

1481
01:44:13,080 --> 01:44:16,559
Speaker 1: of television commercials urging Americans to write to the White

1482
01:44:16,600 --> 01:44:21,479
Speaker 1: House to express their support for the Nicaraguan contras. Before

1483
01:44:21,479 --> 01:44:24,800
Speaker 1: the commercials were released, Bozell attended a screening of the

1484
01:44:24,880 --> 01:44:29,839
Speaker 1: videos with his special guest, Death Squad leader Adolfo Calero.

1485
01:44:31,880 --> 01:44:36,000
Speaker 1: So there's definitely some baggage there for Bozell. The South

1486
01:44:36,040 --> 01:44:39,000
Speaker 1: African Party that he was calling terrorists in nineteen eighty

1487
01:44:39,040 --> 01:44:44,639
Speaker 1: seven holds the presidency right now. Cyril Ramaposa, the current

1488
01:44:44,680 --> 01:44:48,160
Speaker 1: President of South Africa, was one of the African National

1489
01:44:48,200 --> 01:44:54,680
Speaker 1: Congress's negotiators during the talks that ended apartheid. While there

1490
01:44:54,720 --> 01:44:57,880
Speaker 1: was some public uncertainty as to whether Ramaposa would admit

1491
01:44:58,000 --> 01:45:01,560
Speaker 1: Pollock as an ambassador, I haven't seen any speculation that

1492
01:45:01,600 --> 01:45:06,360
Speaker 1: the President would refuse to accept Bozell. But honestly, once

1493
01:45:06,400 --> 01:45:09,919
Speaker 1: Trump posted that online that he was going to nominate Bozell,

1494
01:45:11,000 --> 01:45:12,320
Speaker 1: there was not a lot of follow up to that,

1495
01:45:12,520 --> 01:45:15,320
Speaker 1: so I guess we'll have to wait and see if

1496
01:45:15,320 --> 01:45:21,880
Speaker 1: he's even confirmed. Because among the countless problems created every

1497
01:45:21,960 --> 01:45:26,160
Speaker 1: day by the current administration is this lack of follow up.

1498
01:45:27,200 --> 01:45:29,800
Speaker 1: It seems like every day the President just fires off

1499
01:45:29,840 --> 01:45:33,400
Speaker 1: some half baked demand that doesn't really have any clear

1500
01:45:33,600 --> 01:45:38,240
Speaker 1: force of law or plan for implementation, and maybe some

1501
01:45:38,360 --> 01:45:41,000
Speaker 1: government office is working on implementing the new policy, and

1502
01:45:41,560 --> 01:45:45,960
Speaker 1: maybe they aren't. It's hard to say. That Executive order

1503
01:45:46,000 --> 01:45:48,800
Speaker 1: back in February called for the Secretary of State and

1504
01:45:48,840 --> 01:45:54,200
Speaker 1: the Secretary of Homeland Security to prioritize humanitarian relief, including

1505
01:45:54,240 --> 01:45:57,759
Speaker 1: admission and resettlement through the United States Refugee Admissions Program

1506
01:45:58,439 --> 01:46:02,240
Speaker 1: for Africanners, and then a month later on March seventh,

1507
01:46:02,280 --> 01:46:06,559
Speaker 1: he posted on truth Social any farmer with family from

1508
01:46:06,600 --> 01:46:09,559
Speaker 1: South Africa seeking to flee that country for reasons of

1509
01:46:09,600 --> 01:46:12,520
Speaker 1: safety will be invited to the United States of America

1510
01:46:12,880 --> 01:46:18,160
Speaker 1: with a rapid pathway to citizenship. This process will begin immediately.

1511
01:46:20,160 --> 01:46:22,559
Speaker 1: A few weeks later, the website for the US Embassy

1512
01:46:22,560 --> 01:46:26,880
Speaker 1: in South Africa posted a very generic set of FAQs

1513
01:46:27,360 --> 01:46:31,800
Speaker 1: about the refugee admissions program, but it doesn't have any

1514
01:46:31,800 --> 01:46:37,320
Speaker 1: information specific to this program or any particular timeline. It

1515
01:46:37,400 --> 01:46:40,080
Speaker 1: just directs those who are interested in inquiring about the

1516
01:46:40,120 --> 01:46:43,280
Speaker 1: program to send a message to a State Department email

1517
01:46:43,280 --> 01:46:50,120
Speaker 1: address Pretoria PRM info, and the PRM there is the

1518
01:46:50,160 --> 01:46:54,479
Speaker 1: abbreviation for the State Department's Bureau of Population, Refugees and Migration,

1519
01:46:54,760 --> 01:46:58,080
Speaker 1: so at the very least we know the State Department

1520
01:46:58,120 --> 01:47:01,559
Speaker 1: set up an email address for this and a few

1521
01:47:01,600 --> 01:47:04,479
Speaker 1: days after that page went up, The New York Times

1522
01:47:04,520 --> 01:47:07,800
Speaker 1: reported that they had obtained documents outlining a plan that

1523
01:47:07,880 --> 01:47:12,400
Speaker 1: the administration was calling Mission South Africa, and phase one

1524
01:47:12,439 --> 01:47:15,839
Speaker 1: of the plan was already under way. The State Department

1525
01:47:15,880 --> 01:47:20,280
Speaker 1: had dispatched teams to convert vacant office space in Pretoria

1526
01:47:20,360 --> 01:47:23,000
Speaker 1: for use by US officials who are going to go

1527
01:47:23,080 --> 01:47:26,600
Speaker 1: over there and review the over eight thousand applications that

1528
01:47:26,640 --> 01:47:31,160
Speaker 1: had already been received. And in last week, on April

1529
01:47:31,240 --> 01:47:35,559
Speaker 1: twenty fourth, Reuters reported that US refugee officers had in

1530
01:47:35,600 --> 01:47:39,559
Speaker 1: fact flown to Pretoria to begin interviewing the applicants whose

1531
01:47:40,000 --> 01:47:44,320
Speaker 1: applications were successfully reviewed, and they report that at least

1532
01:47:44,400 --> 01:47:48,960
Speaker 1: thirty Afrikaners who had applied for refugee resettlement have had

1533
01:47:49,000 --> 01:47:51,800
Speaker 1: their applications approved.

1534
01:47:51,960 --> 01:47:52,720
Speaker 7: The sources are.

1535
01:47:52,680 --> 01:47:56,439
Speaker 1: All unnamed, and the White House and the Embassy declined

1536
01:47:56,439 --> 01:48:00,519
Speaker 1: to comment. Anonymous Department of Homeland Security and playes told

1537
01:48:00,560 --> 01:48:04,040
Speaker 1: Reuters that applicants who claim to have been persecuted by

1538
01:48:04,080 --> 01:48:10,000
Speaker 1: black South Africans had gained preliminary approval. Another employee told

1539
01:48:10,000 --> 01:48:13,000
Speaker 1: the outlet, I imagine some will be denied, as we

1540
01:48:13,040 --> 01:48:16,560
Speaker 1: do in all cases, but I think there is administrative

1541
01:48:16,600 --> 01:48:23,360
Speaker 1: pressure to approve these. The article is careful to note

1542
01:48:23,439 --> 01:48:28,720
Speaker 1: that they attempted to and were unable to verify the

1543
01:48:28,720 --> 01:48:31,400
Speaker 1: stories of persecution that were shared with them by several

1544
01:48:31,439 --> 01:48:35,120
Speaker 1: of the applicants, and the article ends with a quote

1545
01:48:35,120 --> 01:48:38,760
Speaker 1: from the only person who gave their name, a woman

1546
01:48:38,800 --> 01:48:44,320
Speaker 1: named Katya Biden. Biden works with a very newly formed

1547
01:48:44,439 --> 01:48:49,559
Speaker 1: organization called Americaners. According to their website, their mission is

1548
01:48:49,600 --> 01:48:53,480
Speaker 1: to assist South Africans in navigating this process and successfully

1549
01:48:53,479 --> 01:48:57,400
Speaker 1: moved to the United States as refugees. The homepage has

1550
01:48:57,439 --> 01:49:01,840
Speaker 1: a very helpful set of FAQs your basics like do

1551
01:49:01,920 --> 01:49:05,080
Speaker 1: I need a visa? Do I need a lawyer? And

1552
01:49:05,080 --> 01:49:06,880
Speaker 1: they say no on both of those, you don't need

1553
01:49:06,880 --> 01:49:10,120
Speaker 1: that It's going to be easy. They assure the reader

1554
01:49:10,160 --> 01:49:12,599
Speaker 1: that of course you can take your pets with you.

1555
01:49:13,320 --> 01:49:15,760
Speaker 1: The job market is great there, and you don't need

1556
01:49:15,800 --> 01:49:22,320
Speaker 1: any vaccinations. My favorite question, though, is will I have

1557
01:49:22,520 --> 01:49:28,120
Speaker 1: to prove persecution? And the answer is no, you don't

1558
01:49:28,160 --> 01:49:34,120
Speaker 1: have to prove it. Quote no, you don't. This requirement

1559
01:49:34,240 --> 01:49:37,919
Speaker 1: only occurs when an individual slash group initiates the refugee

1560
01:49:37,960 --> 01:49:41,360
Speaker 1: status request where the circumstances in the problem country are unknown.

1561
01:49:42,240 --> 01:49:44,519
Speaker 1: In the South Africa case, the US is not only

1562
01:49:44,560 --> 01:49:48,320
Speaker 1: aware of the racial prejudice towards minorities, but President Trump

1563
01:49:48,439 --> 01:49:52,800
Speaker 1: himself has laid out the case to that effect. So

1564
01:49:52,880 --> 01:49:55,720
Speaker 1: there you have it. This is the most obvious and

1565
01:49:55,840 --> 01:49:58,519
Speaker 1: clear cut case of persecution that has ever existed in

1566
01:49:58,600 --> 01:50:04,160
Speaker 1: human history. People who are fleeing active genocides, active war

1567
01:50:04,280 --> 01:50:08,400
Speaker 1: zones have to do this. But if you're a white

1568
01:50:08,400 --> 01:50:11,479
Speaker 1: person in South Africa, it's very obvious that you are suffering,

1569
01:50:11,520 --> 01:50:16,920
Speaker 1: so don't even bother. And the site assures prospective refugees

1570
01:50:16,960 --> 01:50:21,719
Speaker 1: that this program isn't just for farmers, even though Trump

1571
01:50:21,720 --> 01:50:24,400
Speaker 1: seems to have been motivated by the twin boogeymen of

1572
01:50:24,760 --> 01:50:29,720
Speaker 1: farm murders and farm seizures, issues that even if they

1573
01:50:29,760 --> 01:50:35,519
Speaker 1: were real, would only affect farmers, but the site assures

1574
01:50:35,520 --> 01:50:40,519
Speaker 1: the reader that all Africaners are eligible. Guidance from the

1575
01:50:40,520 --> 01:50:47,080
Speaker 1: administration has been muddled and rare and contradictory. In several

1576
01:50:47,080 --> 01:50:50,760
Speaker 1: of his comments, Trump is definitely using the word farmers,

1577
01:50:52,000 --> 01:50:55,440
Speaker 1: but in the Executive Order he does use the word Afrikaners.

1578
01:50:56,800 --> 01:50:59,720
Speaker 1: A statement from a State Department official used the language

1579
01:51:00,120 --> 01:51:04,439
Speaker 1: descendants of settlers being abused by the government, and a

1580
01:51:04,520 --> 01:51:09,679
Speaker 1: State Department document just says disfavored minorities. And it sounds

1581
01:51:09,720 --> 01:51:14,479
Speaker 1: like everyone is just trying to avoid saying white people.

1582
01:51:17,080 --> 01:51:19,640
Speaker 1: And I guess that's good news for Katya Beeden, that

1583
01:51:19,720 --> 01:51:23,519
Speaker 1: woman who works for the Americaners website. She was wearing

1584
01:51:23,600 --> 01:51:25,880
Speaker 1: a make America Great Again hat when she showed up

1585
01:51:25,920 --> 01:51:29,920
Speaker 1: at the embassy for her interview, But she isn't a farmer.

1586
01:51:30,920 --> 01:51:35,240
Speaker 1: According to her personal website, she is a self love coach.

1587
01:51:36,560 --> 01:51:39,400
Speaker 1: For just two hundred dollars an hour, you can call

1588
01:51:39,479 --> 01:51:43,360
Speaker 1: Katya on Zoom for a one on one faith based

1589
01:51:43,479 --> 01:51:48,760
Speaker 1: trauma recovery session to heal from your toxic relationships. It's

1590
01:51:48,800 --> 01:51:52,519
Speaker 1: audio only, though, she is not going to turn on

1591
01:51:52,560 --> 01:51:55,439
Speaker 1: the camera, not even if you buy the twenty dollars

1592
01:51:55,479 --> 01:52:01,120
Speaker 1: twelve week Self Love Journey mentoring package. Aside from Biden,

1593
01:52:01,880 --> 01:52:04,759
Speaker 1: everyone Reuter spoke to declined to be named in the article,

1594
01:52:05,680 --> 01:52:07,559
Speaker 1: so it's hard to sort out how many people went

1595
01:52:07,600 --> 01:52:11,439
Speaker 1: in for interviews, what their stories are if they're all

1596
01:52:11,520 --> 01:52:15,720
Speaker 1: sincere But I did find one woman on Facebook who

1597
01:52:15,760 --> 01:52:19,280
Speaker 1: has been posting in multiple groups for Africaners interested in

1598
01:52:19,320 --> 01:52:22,920
Speaker 1: moving to the United States, and she actually started posting

1599
01:52:22,960 --> 01:52:25,639
Speaker 1: about this a few days before The New York Times

1600
01:52:25,640 --> 01:52:29,000
Speaker 1: broke the story that US officials had begun conducting the

1601
01:52:29,040 --> 01:52:32,559
Speaker 1: interviews in Pretoria. So I'm inclined to believe she is

1602
01:52:32,680 --> 01:52:35,240
Speaker 1: talking about a real thing that happened, because she couldn't

1603
01:52:35,280 --> 01:52:38,639
Speaker 1: have pulled this from the news. So a few days

1604
01:52:38,680 --> 01:52:43,520
Speaker 1: before that story broke. A woman named Anna Lee posted, Hi, everybody,

1605
01:52:44,080 --> 01:52:46,320
Speaker 1: my husband and I just finished our preliminary interview with

1606
01:52:46,400 --> 01:52:49,680
Speaker 1: the US Embassy in Pretoria. From what I understand, the

1607
01:52:49,720 --> 01:52:52,879
Speaker 1: interviewers were delegates SLASH, representatives of the Bureau of Population

1608
01:52:52,960 --> 01:52:56,280
Speaker 1: Refugees in Migration US Department of State just sent to

1609
01:52:56,320 --> 01:52:58,600
Speaker 1: South Africa for this week's interviews, traveling back to the

1610
01:52:58,720 --> 01:53:02,479
Speaker 1: US tonight. She stated in our invitational email that this

1611
01:53:02,560 --> 01:53:06,160
Speaker 1: interview was to collect information on individual's experience, not for

1612
01:53:06,240 --> 01:53:10,160
Speaker 1: official application. She was very polite, asked us a few

1613
01:53:10,160 --> 01:53:15,519
Speaker 1: basic questions, then spent most of the ninety plus minutes asking, listening,

1614
01:53:15,600 --> 01:53:19,639
Speaker 1: and typing our life experiences and instances where SLASH when

1615
01:53:19,680 --> 01:53:23,479
Speaker 1: we were affected, deprived, persecuted, or wronged due to our race.

1616
01:53:24,640 --> 01:53:27,639
Speaker 1: A lot of detail was asked. Most of the focus

1617
01:53:27,680 --> 01:53:32,439
Speaker 1: was on these specific experiences, and she goes on to

1618
01:53:32,479 --> 01:53:34,800
Speaker 1: say that she doesn't have much more information, but she

1619
01:53:34,920 --> 01:53:36,840
Speaker 1: was told that she'll hear from Homeland Security in the

1620
01:53:36,880 --> 01:53:40,320
Speaker 1: coming weeks and that officers from the US Refugee Admissions

1621
01:53:40,400 --> 01:53:46,599
Speaker 1: program will be arriving in South Africa sometime soon. Unnily

1622
01:53:46,680 --> 01:53:50,479
Speaker 1: and her husband do not appear to be farmers. Her

1623
01:53:50,520 --> 01:53:53,960
Speaker 1: husband is a real estate agent. They have several adult children,

1624
01:53:54,000 --> 01:53:56,519
Speaker 1: and they appear to be financially secure enough to enjoy

1625
01:53:56,560 --> 01:54:01,360
Speaker 1: the occasional international vacation. But I think it's really interesting

1626
01:54:01,800 --> 01:54:05,960
Speaker 1: that she noted how fixated that State Department employee was

1627
01:54:06,640 --> 01:54:13,040
Speaker 1: on collecting anecdotes about white persecution. They spent most of

1628
01:54:13,120 --> 01:54:16,240
Speaker 1: that hour and a half long interview trying to get

1629
01:54:16,240 --> 01:54:21,519
Speaker 1: them to talk about times where they'd experienced anti white racism.

1630
01:54:21,600 --> 01:54:25,479
Speaker 1: And then just last week, on April twenty fifth, Katya Beden,

1631
01:54:26,040 --> 01:54:30,559
Speaker 1: that employee of the Americaners Network, tweeted that the first

1632
01:54:30,640 --> 01:54:34,040
Speaker 1: South African families approved for resettlement in the United States

1633
01:54:34,920 --> 01:54:40,040
Speaker 1: will arrive here quote next week, which, if she's telling

1634
01:54:40,080 --> 01:54:42,920
Speaker 1: the truth, would mean that they could already be here

1635
01:54:43,160 --> 01:54:46,920
Speaker 1: as you're listening to this. The administration has still not

1636
01:54:46,960 --> 01:54:50,920
Speaker 1: offered any clear explanation of how the process works or

1637
01:54:51,440 --> 01:54:55,240
Speaker 1: if it's already underway, So it's possible she's making that

1638
01:54:55,360 --> 01:54:57,840
Speaker 1: up to keep people hopeful, to keep them going to

1639
01:54:57,880 --> 01:55:02,600
Speaker 1: her Website's equally possible that the Trump administration plucked a

1640
01:55:02,640 --> 01:55:06,680
Speaker 1: couple of the most racist families in South Africa and

1641
01:55:06,800 --> 01:55:09,320
Speaker 1: just put them on a plane to Georgia or something

1642
01:55:10,440 --> 01:55:16,320
Speaker 1: we don't know will Trump follow through on any part

1643
01:55:16,400 --> 01:55:22,000
Speaker 1: of this hard to say there is so much more

1644
01:55:22,120 --> 01:55:25,960
Speaker 1: to say about this story, especially because turns out it

1645
01:55:26,000 --> 01:55:29,160
Speaker 1: isn't over. But I know this story has been going

1646
01:55:29,200 --> 01:55:32,040
Speaker 1: on for too long because I'm starting to recognize the

1647
01:55:32,120 --> 01:55:36,560
Speaker 1: words when I open a web page that's in Afrikaans.

1648
01:55:37,920 --> 01:55:41,480
Speaker 1: I had imagined a much tidier ending to this story,

1649
01:55:41,680 --> 01:55:44,920
Speaker 1: one that I poured two months and more than fifty

1650
01:55:45,000 --> 01:55:48,480
Speaker 1: thousand words into. But to be quite honest with you,

1651
01:55:49,400 --> 01:55:52,360
Speaker 1: I watched way too much Trucker Carlson this week, and

1652
01:55:52,400 --> 01:55:54,320
Speaker 1: I'm trying to have a wedding in a couple of days.

1653
01:55:55,560 --> 01:55:58,160
Speaker 1: I won't be back with brand new, full length episodes

1654
01:55:58,160 --> 01:56:00,520
Speaker 1: for the next two weeks, but I am going to

1655
01:56:00,560 --> 01:56:03,040
Speaker 1: try to get something together so that there's something for

1656
01:56:03,080 --> 01:56:05,360
Speaker 1: you on your feed while I'm gone, so you won't

1657
01:56:05,400 --> 01:56:09,680
Speaker 1: miss me too much. So be good to each other,

1658
01:56:11,000 --> 01:56:14,520
Speaker 1: and please don't do anything that's going to make you

1659
01:56:14,560 --> 01:56:25,920
Speaker 1: one of my weird Little guys. Weird Little Guys is

1660
01:56:25,920 --> 01:56:29,000
Speaker 1: a production of the Poolsoe Media and iHeartRadio. It's research, written,

1661
01:56:29,000 --> 01:56:32,160
Speaker 1: and recorded by me Mollie Conger. Our executive producers are

1662
01:56:32,200 --> 01:56:35,040
Speaker 1: Sophie Lichterman, and Robert Evans. The show is edited by

1663
01:56:35,040 --> 01:56:37,880
Speaker 1: the wildly talented Rory Gigan. The theme music was composed

1664
01:56:37,880 --> 01:56:40,440
Speaker 1: by Brad Dickert. You can email me at Weird Little

1665
01:56:40,480 --> 01:56:43,280
Speaker 1: Guys Podcast at gmail dot com. I will definitely read it,

1666
01:56:43,320 --> 01:56:46,360
Speaker 1: but I probably won't answer. It's nothing personal.