Speaker 1: What's up this way up with ange La Gee, I'm
Speaker 1: here and my girl Darrol Fairweather is here, chief economist
Speaker 1: at redfin Okay, welcome back.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to talk
Speaker 2: to you again.
Speaker 1: This is an exciting time because last time we spoke,
Speaker 1: you know, the housing market things were a little bit
Speaker 1: dismal for people. But now it looks like things are
Speaker 1: on the upswing.
Speaker 2: Yes, the fact just cut rates and that means that
Speaker 2: mortgage rates have come down, which means it's actually a
Speaker 2: lot more affordable to buy a home than it was
Speaker 2: just a couple of months ago. Four hundred dollars last
Speaker 2: a month for the typical mortgage.
Speaker 1: And now I also know people are definitely refinancing at
Speaker 1: this time too, So I saw that happen like immediately right.
Speaker 2: The refinance applications they just popped today or popped this week.
Speaker 3: Now, you also have a book that people can pre
Speaker 3: order Hate.
Speaker 2: The Game, Yes, Hate the gamebook dot com if you're
Speaker 2: looking for it.
Speaker 1: And I want to say, I know Freakonomics was a
Speaker 1: book that really inspired you. But what I love is
Speaker 1: when people read this book, I feel like this will
Speaker 1: have the effect on them the next generation their freakonomics
Speaker 1: on you.
Speaker 3: You know, that book is why.
Speaker 1: You became an economist, which is something you hadn't necessarily
Speaker 1: considered before, and there were a lot of things at
Speaker 1: play that made it feel like it wasn't going to
Speaker 1: be something that was the best idea. I want you
Speaker 1: to talk about that too, because a lot of what
Speaker 1: this Hate the Game book is about is helping people
Speaker 1: learn how to make career decisions and things are kind
Speaker 1: of like.
Speaker 3: A game, so to speak.
Speaker 1: But why was being an economists according to your parents,
Speaker 1: you know, your grandmother, even not the best idea.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So when I went to college MIT, I thought
Speaker 2: I was going to be an engineer. But then once
Speaker 2: I read for economics, I realized that I really wanted
Speaker 2: to study economics. It's not just about you know, prices
Speaker 2: and stock market. It's about the way that people make decisions.
Speaker 2: And that was really interesting to me putting that to
Speaker 2: putting logic to that and having some structure to that.
Speaker 2: But when I told my dad, he was disappointed. He
Speaker 2: thought I was going to be an engineer, and he
Speaker 2: thought that would protect me from facing discrimination, like if
Speaker 2: I went into something that was more objective, where you know,
Speaker 2: you could tell of a play flies or not. It's
Speaker 2: like very simple, but when you're writing an economics paper,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of subjectivity to it, even if economists
Speaker 2: don't want to admit that. And I decided to go
Speaker 2: through with it even though my dad and my grandmother
Speaker 2: told me not to. My grandmother was actually the first
Speaker 2: black woman to be licensed as at architect in New
Speaker 2: York and California, so she for sure knew the barriers
Speaker 2: that I would be up against, like being one of
Speaker 2: the first. I was actually the first black woman to
Speaker 2: get a PhD in economics from University of Chicago.
Speaker 3: That's why Pat Daryl, let's go okay.
Speaker 2: Right, So, but it's hard. It's hard to be the first.
Speaker 2: It's hard when you don't have role models, when you
Speaker 2: don't know if what's happening to you is discrimination or
Speaker 2: if it's just hard for everybody. So I wanted to
Speaker 2: write this book to inspire people to learn more about
Speaker 2: economics because it is so useful. It's the thing that
Speaker 2: can help you understand, you know what is in your
Speaker 2: control and what's out of your control when it comes
Speaker 2: to things like finding a job or getting a promotion
Speaker 2: or getting a raise, understanding economics can really put all
Speaker 2: that into perspective and help you feel more empowered.
Speaker 1: Right because, as you point out in this book, a
Speaker 1: lot of times there's advice that people can give you,
Speaker 1: but it's not a one size fits all type of thing.
Speaker 1: You know, you can't say, Okay, you need to go
Speaker 1: and negotiate for a higher salary, and women don't do
Speaker 1: that as often, which is true, right. Women don't negotiate
Speaker 1: a salary, a higher salary as much as men do,
Speaker 1: or even what their salary is going to be when
Speaker 1: they first get hired for a job. A lot of
Speaker 1: times they may just take an offer, but there's a
Speaker 1: lot of other things that are a play too, and
Speaker 1: knowing what the other issues are can also help you
Speaker 1: figure out how to navigate that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the advice I heard when I was starting
Speaker 2: my career was you need to be more confident, you
Speaker 2: need to ask for more. And when I started asking,
Speaker 2: I start getting rejected. And that's what I realized. I
Speaker 2: need to understand, like what is the other person's perspective?
Speaker 2: And I think game theory, which is basically the building
Speaker 2: blocks of economics, can help you understand that. Understanding. You know,
Speaker 2: when you're in a negotiation, what does the other person want?
Speaker 2: What are their options? And how what are your options?
Speaker 2: And how can you improve your options that you can
Speaker 2: go in and whether the person agrees or not, you're
Speaker 2: gonna know you're gonna be well off and you're gonna
Speaker 2: feel confident and the decision that you make, yeah.
Speaker 1: Because sometimes it is just go someplace else and get
Speaker 1: a better salary at another place.
Speaker 3: It's not gonna happen here for you.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. And I know so many people who have gotten
Speaker 2: stuck in jobs where they are undervalued because they don't
Speaker 2: realize how many other better options there are out there.
Speaker 2: They think that if one person tells them no, that
Speaker 2: everyone's going to tell them no. And that's just not true.
Speaker 1: You know what I love to you compared some of
Speaker 1: these negotiating and barters and and.
Speaker 3: Games to the movie too.
Speaker 1: Can play that game that movie clearly that which was
Speaker 1: so funny to me, but it was very interesting. You
Speaker 1: talk about Vivica Fox and Morris Chestnut and the things
Speaker 1: that they did to each other because of the value
Speaker 1: that one person had, but why it worked, and this
Speaker 1: is early on in the book, but just so you
Speaker 1: guys can get a little taste for it and why
Speaker 1: you're gonna love this?
Speaker 3: Can you explain that analogy?
Speaker 2: Yes, if you've seen the movie too, can play that game.
Speaker 3: You hasn't seen who can play that?
Speaker 2: It was my first introduction to game theory really, because
Speaker 2: what Vivia fox is ca character does is that when
Speaker 2: her man is stepping out on her, she doesn't get mad.
Speaker 2: She doesn't like yell at him. That would make him
Speaker 2: want to leave her even more. What she does is
Speaker 2: she goes and she improves her outside options. That's a
Speaker 2: game theory term. She goes and she finds other men,
Speaker 2: she flirts with them. She kind of throws it in
Speaker 2: Morris Chestnut's face, and then he's worried about her leaving.
Speaker 2: And that's exactly what you want to do. If you
Speaker 2: are asking for a raise at work, go out and
Speaker 2: find your other options, find those other suitors and figure
Speaker 2: out what they're willing to offer you before you go
Speaker 2: to your boss and ask for a raise, because then
Speaker 2: they know that you're for real that you will leave
Speaker 2: if you don't get that raise.
Speaker 1: Now, another thing as a woman is you also talk
Speaker 1: about being pregnant while at work but getting a promotion,
Speaker 1: but not letting them know right away that you were
Speaker 1: about to be I think in your second trimester. So
Speaker 1: a lot of people talk about how being pregnant and
Speaker 1: having a family it does affect women more than men
Speaker 1: in the workplace. Yes, and I know a lot of
Speaker 1: our listeners can attest to that. Sometimes people put off
Speaker 1: having a family because they're like, Oh, I don't want
Speaker 1: this to affect you know what they're going to say
Speaker 1: about MEO work? Is that going to mean that they're
Speaker 1: gonna give me worse reviews? So talk to me about
Speaker 1: what that experience was like for you when you were
Speaker 1: at work and then you had to go on maternity leave.
Speaker 2: Yes, I was working for this huge tech firm when
Speaker 2: I got pregnant, and I was in the middle of
Speaker 2: the promotion process. Like I knew that I was likely
Speaker 2: going to get promoted, but I was so afraid to
Speaker 2: let people know because I thought that if I told
Speaker 2: people that my worst and my chances of getting promoted. So,
Speaker 2: you know, I kept it under the lid and I
Speaker 2: didn't tell anybody until after my promotion was locked. And
Speaker 2: then when I actually went out on attorney leave, I
Speaker 2: felt like, you know, I was kind of being I
Speaker 2: guess a little bit looked over at work when I
Speaker 2: got back that the opportunities weren't as good for me
Speaker 2: when I got back to work, But knowing that I
Speaker 2: had other options made me feel more confident, because you know,
Speaker 2: I think that if you're in a workplace and you
Speaker 2: feel like you're not being treated fairly as a mother
Speaker 2: or as a pregnant woman, you should know there are
Speaker 2: other options for you. There are other workplaces that I mean,
Speaker 2: they don't care if you took maternity leave or not
Speaker 2: when you're starting a new job. So if you see
Speaker 2: yourself from the outside perspective, like what other job could
Speaker 2: I get? And I think you'll feel less stuck. You'll
Speaker 2: feel like you don't have to endure discrimination or endure
Speaker 2: unfair treatment if you know what's available to you.
Speaker 1: You know, I've always said, like when it comes to
Speaker 1: my career, I've strived to put myself in a position
Speaker 1: where I never felt like I needed to be in
Speaker 1: a certain job or in a certain position, to know
Speaker 1: that I have other options and to be in the
Speaker 1: position at some point where if I decide I didn't
Speaker 1: want to have to work, I'll be okay, you know,
Speaker 1: And so that's always been valuable for me, but it
Speaker 1: took a long time for me to feel that way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think the hard part is actually understanding
Speaker 2: what is that you are what you want out of
Speaker 2: a career, because it's not always about having the highest
Speaker 2: salary or the best title. Sometimes it's about work life
Speaker 2: balance or doing work that's meaningful for your So once
Speaker 2: you understand your own values, it's a lot easier to
Speaker 2: make decisions that put you closer in alignment with your values.
Speaker 2: And then nobody can take that away from you if
Speaker 2: you know if you have the things like internally that
Speaker 2: you want.
Speaker 3: And I want to talk about this.
Speaker 1: This has been a headline that I've been seeing a
Speaker 1: lot of different places where more people with high net
Speaker 1: worths are renting instead of buying. So I want you
Speaker 1: to discuss that with me. Is that really true? Because
Speaker 1: I see that headline in a lot of different places.
Speaker 2: We're seeing more of that, And it makes a lot
Speaker 2: of sense because owning a home, you might be able
Speaker 2: to fix your mortgage rate, but there are other costs
Speaker 2: that are kind of out of your control, like maintenance costs,
Speaker 2: insurance costs, and if you want to have flexibility, then
Speaker 2: renting can be easier and if you don't want to
Speaker 2: have to fix your own sink, then renting can be easier.
Speaker 2: So we're seeing more of these lifestyle renters. Sometimes it's
Speaker 2: younger people Gen Z and millennials who feel like they
Speaker 2: can't afford a down payment, so they're going to rent
Speaker 2: long term. And if you're going to do that, that's fine,
Speaker 2: but make sure you keep saving for retirement your other
Speaker 2: life goals. And then we're also seeing older people who
Speaker 2: have owned a home for years and years selling getting
Speaker 2: their equity out and deciding to rent because it's just
Speaker 2: a lot easier to do that than to maintain a home.
Speaker 3: And so what was your first home buying experience?
Speaker 2: Like, well, I bought a home back what was it
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, and I feel like I was pretty nig
Speaker 2: even going into it. I locked into a home before
Speaker 2: I realized that I was going to quit my job
Speaker 2: in move cities, which is not the best idea. It
Speaker 2: was challenging. I feel like next time I bought a home,
Speaker 2: I was more aware of what things to look for.
Speaker 2: So it's important to do your research ahead of time
Speaker 2: and understand the housing market and especially knowing like are
Speaker 2: you going to stay in this home? For five years.
Speaker 2: That's one of the most important things for building equity.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you give some valuable information on that too, as
Speaker 1: far as purchasing a home and what type of offers
Speaker 1: you even should be making depending on what the market
Speaker 1: is like.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So when I was buying a home in Seattle,
Speaker 2: it was a very competitive market and there was a
Speaker 2: structure too where there was actually like an auction for
Speaker 2: the home where you put in a bid and other
Speaker 2: people might be putting in a bid too, so you
Speaker 2: have to think about, well, what are other people going
Speaker 2: to value this home at. But the most important thing
Speaker 2: is to make sure that you're paying a price that
Speaker 2: you can actually afford to not get caught up in
Speaker 2: the hype. And also there's so many biases that you
Speaker 2: might run into, like falling in love with the home
Speaker 2: before you actually own the home can put you in
Speaker 2: a position where you might do something irrational like overpaying, right.
Speaker 1: That is very true, and especially because they always tell
Speaker 1: you like play it cool, you know, with the broker,
Speaker 1: because you don't want to be like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I love this house.
Speaker 3: Is the house in my dreams and then they're.
Speaker 1: Like got them, yes, yes, I saw California.
Speaker 3: The real estate.
Speaker 1: There has been you know, absolutely crazy with this Amanson
Speaker 1: text everything happening. I saw, there's been a lot more fraud,
Speaker 1: and I think the issue also is that a lot
Speaker 1: of people are doing everything online right now, and so
Speaker 1: what would you say to people about protecting themselves because
Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of stories about this also just
Speaker 1: come through where people are like, Okay, there's been people
Speaker 1: who are such high level cyber criminals that they're sending
Speaker 1: you emails and you really think it's coming from your bank,
Speaker 1: and then you're wiring money because it looks just like
Speaker 1: an email from your bank. How should people protect themselves?
Speaker 2: Well, I think working with an experienced agent is really important.
Speaker 2: I know some people feel like they can do it
Speaker 2: all themselves, all the informations on a website like redfin,
Speaker 2: but having an agent guide you through the process and
Speaker 2: tell you what to look out for is really important.
Speaker 2: And they will tell you that if you are sending
Speaker 2: a wire, make sure you call the bank and confirm
Speaker 2: all the wire information, confirm that it's actually going to
Speaker 2: the seller. But those little things, I think an agent
Speaker 2: can really help you with making a strong offer, identifying
Speaker 2: homes that you might have problems making sure they get
Speaker 2: an inspection done. All that can save you from a
Speaker 2: lot of headaches.
Speaker 1: And let's talk about real estate agents for a second,
Speaker 1: because people are very confused now about what's going on
Speaker 1: with this new ruling from the nar right and so
Speaker 1: what does that mean now as far as real estate
Speaker 1: agent commissions and what people who are buyers and sellers,
Speaker 1: how are they affected by this new ruling.
Speaker 2: So it used to be that if you were buying
Speaker 2: a home, you didn't really worry about how your agent
Speaker 2: was paid because that would be paid by the seller.
Speaker 2: Once you pay the seller, they take a percentage and
Speaker 2: give it to the buyer's agent. But that's all changed
Speaker 2: now when you are working at the buyer's agent, you
Speaker 2: have to agree on how they are paid at that
Speaker 2: first tour at least have some guidelines set about how
Speaker 2: that will proceed. And a lot of people are intimidating
Speaker 2: to buy that because I've never had to consider how
Speaker 2: their agent is paid before. But I think it's ultimately
Speaker 2: going to be good because people will learn, like what
Speaker 2: services to expect out of the agent and understand that
Speaker 2: they that they're not free even though the seller was
Speaker 2: paying it, you were paying indirectly before, but now it's
Speaker 2: a bit more transparent, and it's a bit of a
Speaker 2: difficult time because of all the rules are changing. But
Speaker 2: I think if you just have an honest conversation with
Speaker 2: your agent, talk to multiple agents even and understand what
Speaker 2: they're offering, then you can end up getting even a
Speaker 2: better deal potentially.
Speaker 1: So are we in a situation now where buyers may
Speaker 1: be paying agent fees.
Speaker 2: Well, some buyers will opt to pay their agent with cash,
Speaker 2: and some buyers are going to put in the contract
Speaker 2: that they are only basically going to make offers on
Speaker 2: homes where the seller will pay the buyer's agent. But
Speaker 2: I think this is going to create some shifts in
Speaker 2: the market where the people who have cash might be
Speaker 2: more successful. That's what we've seen in our data is
Speaker 2: that if you're making a cash offer, it's usually more successful.
Speaker 2: And if you're telling the seller you don't have to
Speaker 2: worry about paying the agent, I'm going to pay the
Speaker 2: agent with cash, that might make the offera more successful too.
Speaker 1: I think my cash office has always been more successful though,
Speaker 1: Like people love an all cash offer, no.
Speaker 2: Yah way, yes, yeah, And I think if.
Speaker 3: You're not waiting for a bank mortgage to come through,
Speaker 3: right right.
Speaker 2: I think it's going to be the same way with
Speaker 2: the agents, where people who are kind of paying the
Speaker 2: agent and not asking the seller to pay might be
Speaker 2: more successful, which might create some more inequalities in the market.
Speaker 2: But we'll see how that plays out. That was one
Speaker 2: concern about these new rule changes.
Speaker 3: Now, another thing that I've been noticing is Miami. The
Speaker 3: real estate.
Speaker 1: Market in Florida too, by the way, in general, yes,
Speaker 1: but with the condos, right and now there's been a
Speaker 1: new law in Florida, and I see there's been a
Speaker 1: lot of condos that are on the market, some of
Speaker 1: these older condos because the HOA fees are about to
Speaker 1: go up.
Speaker 2: Yes there are, there are already going up, and it's
Speaker 2: because of this law change. If people remember, there was
Speaker 2: this huge condo colops, the surf side condo clops that
Speaker 2: happened a couple of years ago, and after that was investigated,
Speaker 2: they determined that we need stricter rules for these condo buildings,
Speaker 2: so they're actually maintaining the properties. And it kind of
Speaker 2: go back to climate change because the reason was erosion essentially,
Speaker 2: and we're probably going to see more storms, more rainfall,
Speaker 2: more basically maintenance that needs to be done on homes
Speaker 2: and condos and that's going to make it more costly
Speaker 2: for homeowners and it's gonna unfortunately suppress home values and sales.
Speaker 2: And that's what we're seeing so far. This is kind
Speaker 2: of early days. We're also hearing from our agents about
Speaker 2: how insurance costs are going up in Florida and how
Speaker 2: that's been really difficult for home buyers to wrap their
Speaker 2: heads around just how expensive home insurance is. And right
Speaker 2: now it's really a Florida problem in parts of Texas,
Speaker 2: but I think this is going to be more of
Speaker 2: a national problem, how expensive insurances and how expensive, yeah,
Speaker 2: it is to maintain a home.
Speaker 3: And I'm nervous about all of this and HOA fees.
Speaker 1: I want to discuss HOA fees and so those are
Speaker 1: never negotiable, right like when you are buying something, the
Speaker 1: hoafee is what it is? What responsibility to does your
Speaker 1: HIA have Because I hear a lot of people complain about, well,
Speaker 1: I'm paying all these fees, but what is it going
Speaker 1: towards and what are they even doing?
Speaker 3: How do you hold them accountable?
Speaker 2: Well, if there is a home owners association and you
Speaker 2: buy into that, you will become a voting member. So
Speaker 2: it's important to keep up and attend those meetings and
Speaker 2: understand what's in the documents. The documents should tell you
Speaker 2: how much money the HOA has in savings, how much
Speaker 2: they expect to be spending on maintenance or other expenses
Speaker 2: for the condo building or the home association. So read
Speaker 2: those documents and be like a good citizen is how
Speaker 2: I would put it, and vote for the types of
Speaker 2: investments that you think are going to increase your home value.
Speaker 2: Hoas that usually have a leader who is making all
Speaker 2: the decisions, but sometimes those leaders aren't so great, so
Speaker 2: it's important to keep on top of it and hold
Speaker 2: them accountable for the things that they're supposed to.
Speaker 3: Do, kind of like voting in general. Exactly exactly, but complain.
Speaker 1: But it's like, are you going out and voting, Are
Speaker 1: you going to any of these meetings? Are you holding
Speaker 1: people accountable who are in office that is supposed to
Speaker 1: handle things for you? How do you think this election
Speaker 1: is going to affect things? Like, Okay, let's just say
Speaker 1: when God willing win Kamala Harris wins, right.
Speaker 3: How do you think that will affect the market?
Speaker 2: If you had to predict, well, Harris has an extensive
Speaker 2: housing plan. She's talking about building three million homes in
Speaker 2: her first term, and we've seen the numbers and the
Speaker 2: housing shortage is around four million homes, So that's going
Speaker 2: to put a huge debt in the housing crisis. She
Speaker 2: plans to accomplish that by giving subsidies to builders and
Speaker 2: eliminating red tape when it comes to new construction, and
Speaker 2: also giving down payment assistance to first time buyers twenty
Speaker 2: five thousand dollars in down payment assistance. It's a really
Speaker 2: big plan and all the pieces kind of work with
Speaker 2: one another. We'll see what happens with Congress, because when
Speaker 2: something goes through Congress, it has to be negotiated, and
Speaker 2: we'll see what happens in the final bill. But I'm
Speaker 2: just so excited that a presidential candidate is talking about
Speaker 2: housing and talking about solutions that will actually work, because
Speaker 2: for the longest time, politicians have kind of been like
Speaker 2: lying to us. They've been telling us that this is
Speaker 2: going to solve the housing crisis when economists know that
Speaker 2: it won't. But for the first time, a presidential candidate
Speaker 2: is talking about the housing crisis the way that housing
Speaker 2: experts and economists talk about the housing market and.
Speaker 3: What is Danna Chump's plan.
Speaker 2: It's a little bit hard to understand the things that
Speaker 2: he's topic.
Speaker 3: Can understand both sides, right.
Speaker 2: So one thing that Trump has talked about time and
Speaker 2: time again is protecting the suburbs and not letting low
Speaker 2: income housing go into the suburbs. And I think there's
Speaker 2: a lot of dog whistles going on there, but it's
Speaker 2: basically the opposite of what you would want have a
Speaker 2: housing solution. He's saying that he's not going to support
Speaker 2: these new housing units that could potentially be affordable to
Speaker 2: protect those single family suburban neighborhoods.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: He's also talked about cutting red tape the way that
Speaker 2: Harris has, but he hasn't been as specific. It's a
Speaker 2: little disappointing because I know he's supposed to be a builder,
Speaker 2: but he hasn't had this build, build, build message that
Speaker 2: the Democrats have had.
Speaker 1: Right, A lot of people will discuss, oh, this isn't
Speaker 1: getting done, that's not getting done, But the main thing
Speaker 1: they say is not in my backyard. I do not
Speaker 1: want this happening in my backyard. How do you get
Speaker 1: around that? Because, like you said, there is a you know,
Speaker 1: we all see this housing crisis that's happening right now,
Speaker 1: and we do need to build in a lot of times.
Speaker 1: In these suburbs is a lot more space than there
Speaker 1: is in the city, but people are so against having
Speaker 1: developments and things built and affordable housing where they live. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I talk about this in my book. It really comes
Speaker 2: back to like economics and game theory. People are making
Speaker 2: decisions for themselves are basically being selfish. They think that
Speaker 2: if I bought this home in this neighborhood, then I
Speaker 2: get to control everything that happens in the neighborhood. I
Speaker 2: don't want new people coming in. I don't want you know,
Speaker 2: apartment buildings or different types of people. And it's really selfish,
Speaker 2: I think to put that over people who are housing
Speaker 2: and secure, people who are potentially like won't be able
Speaker 2: to commute to their job or won't be able to
Speaker 2: access schools. Some of these suburbs have the best schools,
Speaker 2: and unfortunately, because of the way that housing has segregated,
Speaker 2: how you have to spend you know, five hundred thousand
Speaker 2: dollars even a million dollars to buy into certain neighborhoods.
Speaker 2: That exclude certain families from participating in those schools. So
Speaker 2: I think it's really important for people to see the
Speaker 2: big picture and kind of think beyond their own preferences.
Speaker 2: It's more important that people have housing. That is that,
Speaker 2: you know, you don't have to deal with more more
Speaker 2: people at the super Yeah, more people at the supermarkets,
Speaker 2: stilly things like that.
Speaker 1: Now, do we expect these rates to come down even more?
Speaker 1: Because I see people are still sitting waiting, like, okay,
Speaker 1: you know right now the rates are going down, but
Speaker 1: it's gonna go down even more, that's the expectation.
Speaker 2: Yes, we're forecasting that rates will continue to go down,
Speaker 2: not by a whole lot. I think people are hoping
Speaker 2: that it'll go back to this three or four percent.
Speaker 1: I don't know, people forget that before that it's never
Speaker 1: been right right that low.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I think that we'll get down to around
Speaker 2: five and a half percent for a thirty year fixed
Speaker 2: rate mortgage by the end of next year. Right now,
Speaker 2: mortgage rates are at around six point one percent, so
Speaker 2: not a huge drop, but it is back to kind
Speaker 2: of normal territory. That's around the rates that we saw
Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen when the housing market was
Speaker 2: in you know, a more affordable place. Unfortunately, prices are
Speaker 2: much higher now right, So even though rates are coming
Speaker 2: down that makes things more affordable. What will, unfortunately happen
Speaker 2: is more people will get into the housing market, more
Speaker 2: people will be competing and bidding up homes, and we'll
Speaker 2: see prices go up again. The only way to really
Speaker 2: get out of this is to build more housing.
Speaker 1: Now. I got to ask you, you know, early on
Speaker 1: you discuss how your dad your grandmother did not feel
Speaker 1: like economics was the right move for you. Your grandmother
Speaker 1: even said even to find a husband, yes, that was
Speaker 1: the best major.
Speaker 2: I thought that engineers make the best husbands. That business
Speaker 2: people are too they're too obsessed with status.
Speaker 3: But how do they feel now?
Speaker 2: Well, unfirst till my grandmother has passed away. My dad
Speaker 2: is obviously very proud of me and how far I've come.
Speaker 2: I think he would admit that I made the right decision.
Speaker 2: I think that's the advice I would give to most
Speaker 2: young people is pursue what you're passionate about, what really
Speaker 2: gets you excited, because that's what's going to get you
Speaker 2: through those challenges. Even if I decided to be an engineer.
Speaker 2: I'm sure I would have faced challenges too, but having
Speaker 2: that drive and like knowing what I wanted, I think
Speaker 2: that helped get me through even those challenges.
Speaker 1: Now I know we can pre order the book Hate
Speaker 1: the Game? Now, when does the book come out?
Speaker 2: April Eleventh's actually coming out on the twenty year anniversary
Speaker 2: of Freakonomics.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, was that planned?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: Very coincidentally.
Speaker 1: No, But it's amazing how And I'm telling you guys,
Speaker 1: like I haven't finished the entire book yet, but you
Speaker 1: can see I've been reading it and it's fascinating to
Speaker 1: me because I do love understanding how different things affect
Speaker 1: the decisions that we make. And you know, I'm all
Speaker 1: about like my financial wellness and always trying to level up.
Speaker 1: And so I think that for anybody, this book is
Speaker 1: something that is very relatable because you talk about your
Speaker 1: own life situations, you talk about going to school, you
Speaker 1: talk about after that, but all of those things that
Speaker 1: can help people understand all the different ways that you
Speaker 1: should make decisions. You can make decisions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I hope it's fun too. I talk about Beyonce,
Speaker 2: I talk about all the things that I enjoy in life.
Speaker 2: That make economics fun. So I hope that people enjoy it.
Speaker 2: It should be an enjoyable read and hopefully you learn
Speaker 2: a lot too.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, guys, if you see how she loved
Speaker 1: the book, I guarantee you there's going to be people
Speaker 1: that are like, this is the book that inspire me.
Speaker 3: So I told you this.
Speaker 1: When I first met you, I was like, if I
Speaker 1: would have met you when I was younger, I probably
Speaker 1: would have been like, I want to be an economist
Speaker 1: because you're the only person I've seen that looks like
Speaker 1: this in this position, like a woman, you know, a
Speaker 1: black woman that is doing this, and so I just
Speaker 1: feel like sometimes they always say if you could see it,
Speaker 1: you could be it, and it was never anything that
Speaker 1: I would have even considered.
Speaker 3: But you make it cool.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you. That's the goal, and you make
Speaker 2: me cool. All right.
Speaker 1: Well, you guys, pre order this book now. I love
Speaker 1: every time you come up here. I always tell you
Speaker 1: when you come into town, I need you to always
Speaker 1: come and sit down with me because so many different
Speaker 1: things should one more thing, because you know, I have
Speaker 1: my real estate license, but people acted like it was
Speaker 1: a bad time for me to even do that. Because
Speaker 1: it's so different now and that it's been a lot
Speaker 1: harder for realtors to even make money. What's your take
Speaker 1: on that like the future of real estate agents.
Speaker 2: Well, I think the housing market is going to pop
Speaker 2: off next year now that rates are down, so there'll
Speaker 2: be more activity for agents, and the role of agents
Speaker 2: is changing. I think that now that people are going
Speaker 2: to have to negotiate with their buyer's agent up front,
Speaker 2: buyers agents will have to show their value, will have
Speaker 2: to say what they're going to do that the other
Speaker 2: agent won't do in terms of taking you on tours
Speaker 2: or educating you about the process or having you have
Speaker 2: the best offer. I think people are going to understand
Speaker 2: more what agents are bringing to the table, which will
Speaker 2: hopefully make agents better off too that you know they
Speaker 2: are being valued directly instead of indirectly.
Speaker 1: All right, all right, well, Daryl Fairweather again, make sure
Speaker 1: you pre order Hate the Game It comes out April eleventh.
Speaker 3: Hate the Game book dot Com. Okay, Hate the Game
Speaker 1: Book dot Com, Go there and put your pre order
Speaker 1: in its way up, way up,