Speaker 1: Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning,
Speaker 1: This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's
Speaker 1: episode is going to be a slightly longer one part
Speaker 1: of the series where I interview fascinating people about how
Speaker 1: they take their days from great to awesome and any
Speaker 1: advice they have for the rest of us. So today
Speaker 1: I am delighted to welcome Tara Moore to Before Breakfast.
Speaker 1: Tara is a speaker, a coach, and the author of
Speaker 1: the book Playing Big. So Tara, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: I'm excited to have you here. Why don't you tell
Speaker 1: our listeners a little bit about yourself?
Speaker 2: Sure?
Speaker 3: Well, I am a very busy in the Sandwich generation person.
Speaker 3: I am an only child of two aging parents. I'm
Speaker 3: a mom of three kids. I'm a business owner and
Speaker 3: leader of a team and kind of the steward and
Speaker 3: host of a community of many thousands of women that
Speaker 3: are working on playing Bigger. So I feel like in
Speaker 3: this phase of my life sometimes my to do list
Speaker 3: is organized by like stakeholder groups.
Speaker 2: Of my life.
Speaker 3: For the first this is the first phase of my
Speaker 3: life where it's ever been really like that, and I'm
Speaker 3: really passionate about how our inner lives can either shape
Speaker 3: our outer lives or really help us cope better with
Speaker 3: what the outer world and its external circumstances are bringing us.
Speaker 3: And so that's really where I like to work at,
Speaker 3: that intersection of our internal space and then what we
Speaker 3: bring forward into the world.
Speaker 1: So what does it mean to play big?
Speaker 3: My definition of playing big is that it means being
Speaker 3: more loyal to your dreams than.
Speaker 2: To your fears.
Speaker 3: So a lot of people will hear the term playing
Speaker 3: big and have kind of a mixed reaction like, ooh,
Speaker 3: there's a part of me that would love to play bigger,
Speaker 3: there's a part of me that knows I'm playing small.
Speaker 3: And then there's another aspect to their reaction of like
Speaker 3: that sounds exhausting, That sounds like being a big, puffed
Speaker 3: up ego and playing politics and going for the world
Speaker 3: screwed up ideas about success. So it's really an internal definition,
Speaker 3: you know, And I find for me my own playing
Speaker 3: big edges, which I also always still struggle with.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I think we teach what we need to learn, and
Speaker 3: I've had my own ways of being stuck and playing small.
Speaker 3: So a playing big edge for me could be am
Speaker 3: I going to write what I really think today? Or
Speaker 3: the safe thing? Am I going to speak up in
Speaker 3: the meeting? Am I going to be a people pleaser?
Speaker 3: Or not in this relationship? You know, it's all that stuff.
Speaker 1: And why I mean, are those all the reasons people
Speaker 1: don't play big? I mean? Are people worried about what
Speaker 1: the world will think of them?
Speaker 3: So if you think of playing big as being loyal
Speaker 3: to our dreams, that's very vulnerable.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: It means we have to be authentic. We usually what
Speaker 3: we really want for our lives or our careers is
Speaker 3: probably a bit different from what our family or friends
Speaker 3: are up to, what they think we should be up to,
Speaker 3: So we kind of have to trust ourselves and stand
Speaker 3: alone in having faith in those dreams.
Speaker 2: And so that's hard.
Speaker 3: That's hard. And then there's social reasons. A lot of
Speaker 3: my work has focused on helping women play bigger and
Speaker 3: visible women. Powerful women tend to get a lot of
Speaker 3: push back in our culture and are often treated quite unfairly.
Speaker 3: So there's also this social layer to very legitimate fears
Speaker 3: that can come up, but still fears that we might
Speaker 3: not want to have running us in our lives.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so what would be sort of an example of
Speaker 1: playing bigger, Like somebody is, you know, kind of going
Speaker 1: through life and you know, doing their job, raising their
Speaker 1: family and that sort of normal circumstances. What would it
Speaker 1: mean for us to think about playing bigger?
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it can look a lot of different ways.
Speaker 3: But one example might be I have this idea that
Speaker 3: I want to paint, and I used to love art
Speaker 3: when I was a kid, and then I got talked
Speaker 3: out of that, told it wasn't a serious thing, or
Speaker 3: I got told by that fourth grade teacher I didn't
Speaker 3: really know how to paint, and I never touched again.
Speaker 3: And maybe for that person, playing big is signing up
Speaker 3: for the art class, or maybe they've already been painting
Speaker 3: but not showing anyone, and the playing big is I'm
Speaker 3: gonna approach a local gallery and see if I could
Speaker 3: have a show, because that would feel so good. So
Speaker 3: playing big could look like that. It could look like
Speaker 3: I want to write a book that tells my story
Speaker 3: of something significant I've been through in my life. It
Speaker 3: could look like I want to pitch a different job
Speaker 3: at work. I see a role that our company is missing.
Speaker 3: Could be I want to ask for the pay rise
Speaker 3: that I think I deserve, and for someone else it
Speaker 3: could be I'm going to turn down a promotion because
Speaker 3: I've always been on the treadmill and my playing big
Speaker 3: is realizing i actually want a slower pace of life
Speaker 3: and I'm not going to be run by whatever society's
Speaker 3: telling me. The next rung on the ladder is. So
Speaker 3: those are some examples of the range of ways it
Speaker 3: can look.
Speaker 1: And your book Playing Big, one of the things you
Speaker 1: talk about as you're trying to move into this world
Speaker 1: where you are playing bigger is to consult your inner mentor.
Speaker 1: So what is an inner mentor? And why is this person,
Speaker 1: whoever he or she is worth consulting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So this has been one of the most remarkable, moving,
Speaker 3: joyful parts of coaching for me for the past I've
Speaker 3: been helping people find their inner mentors now for seventeen years,
Speaker 3: pretty much consistently for seventeen years. So I've seen thousands
Speaker 3: of people go through this process and it is pretty
Speaker 3: universally transformative for people. And what it is is it
Speaker 3: mean it's all about just simply doing a guided visualization
Speaker 3: meditation that anyone can access online. We can maybe share
Speaker 3: a link with people. And in that guided in that
Speaker 3: guided visualization, you let your mind, and not your everyday
Speaker 3: thinking mind, but your kind of imaginal right brain when
Speaker 3: you're super relaxed as you get in this meditation, you
Speaker 3: let that part of your creative mind bring you a
Speaker 3: sense of your older, wiser self, so yourself way out
Speaker 3: into the future. And it's kind of like we all
Speaker 3: have this inner elder that we might not have accessed
Speaker 3: before but is actually very much there. And it's not Yoda,
Speaker 3: and it's not your grandma. It's you, older and wiser,
Speaker 3: and so it is an authentic expression of your unique self,
Speaker 3: and it has guidance that's right for you. It's not
Speaker 3: somebody else's guidance that is a general prescription or what
Speaker 3: they think you should be doing. And so once people
Speaker 3: get a sense of that figure, they have a different
Speaker 3: kind of north star for what they're becoming. And they
Speaker 3: also have this internal mentor that they can consult with
Speaker 3: and really check in. How would she handle this, how
Speaker 3: would she move through the same situation, even down to
Speaker 3: the very granular, how would she write this email? How
Speaker 3: does she structure her time before breakfast? How does she
Speaker 3: move her body? What does she make herself for lunch
Speaker 3: and kind of micro decision by decision, we can find
Speaker 3: a more authentic, fulfilling life using that north star.
Speaker 1: Well, I imagine one of the upsides of your inner mentors
Speaker 1: is he or she is available twenty four to seven too, right,
Speaker 1: which is your If many people have helpful outer mentors,
Speaker 1: you know other people in their organizations or friends or
Speaker 1: family or whatever have served as mentors. But that person
Speaker 1: isn't there telling you, you know, how to write that
Speaker 1: email all the time.
Speaker 3: She's available all the time whenever you can, whenever you
Speaker 3: can slow down enough to be quiet to hear her
Speaker 3: and open to her guidance. She also has the guidance
Speaker 3: that's customized for you. And you know, our outer mentors
Speaker 3: can do a lot of the tactical functions of mentorship,
Speaker 3: the introductions, the opportunities.
Speaker 2: But sometimes I think a lot of mentors.
Speaker 3: Lack a skill to differentiate between the stories from their
Speaker 3: own lives. Yeah, here's what I did and what worked
Speaker 3: for me, But what is that the right path for you?
Speaker 3: Let me ask you a question that would help you
Speaker 3: discern if it is a lot of mentors don't have
Speaker 3: that second skill set to not just extrapolate and especially
Speaker 3: for women, where with every decade we're kind of presented
Speaker 3: with a new context and a new societal context. A
Speaker 3: lot of times the person who went through something thirty
Speaker 3: years before doesn't really have quite the relevant prescription for us.
Speaker 1: Well, we're going to take a quick ad break and
Speaker 1: then i'll be back with more from Taramore. Well, I
Speaker 1: am back talking with Taramore, who is a speaker, a coach,
Speaker 1: the author of the book Playing Big. So another one
Speaker 1: of your tips. Once we've done our found our inner
Speaker 1: mentor we want to unhook from criticism and praise. Now
Speaker 1: what does that mean practically in our lives?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, what I found in my coaching work is
Speaker 3: that a lot of people who they wanted to pursue
Speaker 3: some kind of playing big dream right to start the business,
Speaker 3: write the book, go for the bigger role, and they
Speaker 3: were coming up against a wall that had to do
Speaker 3: with their relationship to praise or criticism. And so that
Speaker 3: could look like I want to write the book, but
Speaker 3: I know it's going to be controversial, or I'm in
Speaker 3: this senior role now and I just have to make
Speaker 3: really tough calls that not everyone is going to like.
Speaker 3: Or I know I should be marketing myself more in
Speaker 3: my business and being more visible, but that feels like
Speaker 3: it involves a lot of rejection and failure because I
Speaker 3: put things out and they don't. They don't necessarily land.
Speaker 3: So in all these different ways, I kept seeing like
Speaker 3: all of these clients to get to their goals, they
Speaker 3: have to transform their relationship to praise and criticism to
Speaker 3: the world's response to them. Most of us are taking
Speaker 3: it way too personally. We're going on an emotional rollercoaster
Speaker 3: with it. We're letting it get us stuck. And the
Speaker 3: big reframe that I talk about in the book is
Speaker 3: this idea that feedback doesn't tell you about you. It
Speaker 3: tells you about the person who's giving the feedback. And
Speaker 3: that doesn't mean that we dismiss it or throw it
Speaker 3: out the window because we need it. But we're really
Speaker 3: learning when we post something as an entrepreneur and it
Speaker 3: gets no response, we're learning not whether we're we're the
Speaker 3: entrepreneur or not, but we're learning about our audience. And
Speaker 3: if we pitch something to leadership at our company, their
Speaker 3: response is illuminating something about them, and that allows us
Speaker 3: to start to use feedback as this strategically useful but
Speaker 3: emotionally neutral information, and that's crucial for really getting to
Speaker 3: our playing big.
Speaker 1: And I can see how people would get that point
Speaker 1: with criticism. I mean, you know, many of us need
Speaker 1: a tougher skin, need to let it roll off our backs,
Speaker 1: as people say. But the same thing goes for praise, correct,
Speaker 1: I mean, praise is not necessarily any more helpful.
Speaker 3: Right because let's say, Laura, you write a substock article
Speaker 3: and it gets lots of great feedback and you're like,
Speaker 3: few I passed today, you know, like today went well,
Speaker 3: and that's what most of us do. It's like, oh good,
Speaker 3: that felt good. Moving on, a couple things are problematic
Speaker 3: about that. We know from research that actually praise does
Speaker 3: not increase our confidence. It actually makes us more risk averse,
Speaker 3: because we become nervous about doing things that will disprove
Speaker 3: the praise or won't earn us the praise. Caroldrex research
Speaker 3: on mindset and on growth mindset shows us this. Those
Speaker 3: effects tend to be the most pronounced for high achieving girls,
Speaker 3: and I think they also really especially affect high achieving women.
Speaker 3: But also so think about all the learning that was
Speaker 3: missed there, because when we go oh few, okay, good,
Speaker 3: that went well. If that felt good, we don't say
Speaker 3: why did that resonate, why did that get a response?
Speaker 3: What's potentially replicable about that? Because we're forgetting to look
Speaker 3: at it as information about that other party. So we
Speaker 3: don't want our confidence or our motivation to depend on
Speaker 3: the world's reception to us. But we do want to
Speaker 3: keep paying attention to the learnings in both the seemingly
Speaker 3: less positive and seemingly you know, more positive reactions. They're
Speaker 3: both full of crucial information for us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've learned the crucial information that everyone wants to
Speaker 1: click on a story called fourteen things you can do
Speaker 1: this weekend to save you time all year.
Speaker 3: Now we know the number are kind of like they're
Speaker 3: a regular winner.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're a winner that everyone every every post needs
Speaker 1: to be some version of that. Speaking of putting things
Speaker 1: out in the world, I mean another thing you recommend
Speaker 1: in playing big is taking some sort of leap. So
Speaker 1: we've got some big idea we want to we want
Speaker 1: to play bigger. But rather than think like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: going to write a book necessarily, or I'm going to
Speaker 1: change careers or whatever it is, to do something smaller
Speaker 1: that you can test out. Can you talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about that.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, And this is great for people who are
Speaker 3: interested in time management because one of the ways that
Speaker 3: we can really waste time while convincing ourselves we're using
Speaker 3: our time really well is to do these kind of long,
Speaker 3: multi month or in many cases, multi year preparation get
Speaker 3: researching something, you know, writing the full eighty page business plan,
Speaker 3: writing the full manuscript before we've tested things out in
Speaker 3: the world. And you know, I live in Silicon Valley
Speaker 3: now where it's become much more the practice of how
Speaker 3: companies are built to do these quick cycles of experimentation
Speaker 3: where we learn what lands with an audience, We learn
Speaker 3: what works through these scrappy, rapid experiments. But that kind
Speaker 3: of thinking hasn't made it to a lot of other
Speaker 3: corners of the world yet, even though it's so valuable. So, yeah,
Speaker 3: if you want to write a book, test some ideas
Speaker 3: and some short essays first, you're going to learn so much.
Speaker 3: And from a sort of personal fulfillment perspective, you have
Speaker 3: a lot more opportunity to get the juice, like the
Speaker 3: good joy, self expression juice that you think is going
Speaker 3: to come from writing a book. You can get that
Speaker 3: this week by writing that essay on a substack, right,
Speaker 3: or if you you know, a lot of times people
Speaker 3: will have a dream like I want to build an
Speaker 3: amazing retreat center for parents, or I want to have
Speaker 3: a retail store that does X Y, and like rent
Speaker 3: that retreat center for one weekend first, or use your
Speaker 3: living room and make it a one evening event. So
Speaker 3: I always encourage people, what can you do in the
Speaker 3: next one to two weeks that gets you and the
Speaker 3: work you want to do in contact with an audience,
Speaker 3: and then treat that as an experiment that has a
Speaker 3: learning goal. It's not about how many people come into
Speaker 3: the room, but did you resolve some of your unknowns
Speaker 3: through that process?
Speaker 1: And is there a way you might think of one
Speaker 1: of these leaps in more of a like corporate or
Speaker 1: organizational context. Let's say somebody has sort of a normal
Speaker 1: white collar of job and is thinking of sort of
Speaker 1: raising their platform within their organization. What might be an
Speaker 1: example of a leap you could take in that context?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean so many. In fact, sometimes in those
Speaker 3: contexts it's hard to do it's harder to do things
Speaker 3: the bigger, longer way. But it could be you know
Speaker 3: I want to develop thought leadership in this area. I'm
Speaker 3: going to do one post about it this week, maybe
Speaker 3: on my company's internal message board. I'm going to host
Speaker 3: a brown bag lunch this week and teach about that topic.
Speaker 3: The thing I was thinking of pitching to my boss
Speaker 3: as a big initiative. What would be the two week
Speaker 3: experiment we could run to get some initial feedback on
Speaker 3: it and pitch that.
Speaker 1: I love it. Well, We're going to take one more
Speaker 1: quick ad break and then I'll be back with more
Speaker 1: from Taramore. Well, I am back talking with Taramore, who
Speaker 1: is the author of the book Playing Big. I know
Speaker 1: you have a lot of different things on your plate
Speaker 1: these days. What's kind of your business mix at the moment?
Speaker 1: What are you putting out in the world right now?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I continue to teach the Playing Big course,
Speaker 3: which is for women who want to play bigger in
Speaker 3: their lives and work. Then we also have many coaches, therapists, managers,
Speaker 3: mentors who want to be trained in the Playing Big
Speaker 3: coaching model to use it in their work, and so
Speaker 3: teach that. I also teach sort of my take on
Speaker 3: coaching skills through a different course. So we have a
Speaker 3: really wonderful, robust online education business. And then I continue
Speaker 3: to do corporate speaking, and then I'm working on a
Speaker 3: new book as well.
Speaker 1: Exciting. Well, we're looking forward to that for sure. What
Speaker 1: does your schedule tend to look like? Oh?
Speaker 2: LORDI Laura LRDI you knew I was getting there. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I mean you got a picture.
Speaker 3: I call our house the campus because we have two
Speaker 3: work at home parents, we have three homeschooled children, we
Speaker 3: have an unruly dog, and then those are all the beings,
Speaker 3: and so I find it critical whenever I can. I
Speaker 3: like to be up, you know, an hour to two
Speaker 3: before the kids, and I find that usually the most
Speaker 3: important cognitive and creative work of the day happens. Then
Speaker 3: then that allows me to feel unrushed when they wake up.
Speaker 3: That because I'm very much a morning brain. So if
Speaker 3: I'm being a morning brain and I spend the first
Speaker 3: hour of the day reading picture books and pouring apple juices,
Speaker 3: I start to get kind of antsy. But if I've
Speaker 3: already gotten those two hours in, I'm like ready for that.
Speaker 3: And then yeah, I keep for the most part, I
Speaker 3: keep things free of meetings until about eleven am, so
Speaker 3: I can continue to write and do that heavier kind
Speaker 3: of in the document's work, and then meetings called teaching
Speaker 3: tends to happen midday early afternoon. Usually some kind of
Speaker 3: workout gets slotted in there, depending on the day, and
Speaker 3: then by the afternoon, I'm you know, schlepping around to
Speaker 3: karate and chorus and things like that.
Speaker 1: And you mentioned your kids are homeschooling. How does that
Speaker 1: fit in with the schedule with all that.
Speaker 3: They they are, Well, my elementary age and my junior
Speaker 3: high are pretty self sufficient with that. Each kid has
Speaker 3: their own Google calendar, they have their schedule varies quite
Speaker 3: a bit day to day because of the nature of homeschooling,
Speaker 3: and so they're moving between classes that they do online,
Speaker 3: classes in the community. Learning activities that we do with
Speaker 3: them pieced into all of that. And we have a
Speaker 3: really wonderful childcare helper too, who's you know, making sure
Speaker 3: all that happens when we're working and dealing with transportation
Speaker 3: needs that happened earlier in the day and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, excellent.
Speaker 1: I'm always fascinated by families who managed to do working
Speaker 1: in homeschooling simultaneously. It's like one of those wonderful things
Speaker 1: of time that works in ways people don't always appreciate it. Yes,
Speaker 1: and these are things that can in fact fit together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it can.
Speaker 3: It's a little bit of a jigsaw puzzle, but it
Speaker 3: definitely can.
Speaker 1: And since you are a morning person, I mean, is
Speaker 1: there anything in addition to the work that's part of
Speaker 1: like your morning routine, Like do you have any sort
Speaker 1: of things that make you in the mood to work
Speaker 1: in the morning or is it just straight up shoot
Speaker 1: the coffee, go for it.
Speaker 3: I always pray before I get up, you know, before
Speaker 3: I even get out of bed, So I and I like,
Speaker 3: in the morning, my prayer is more like turning over
Speaker 3: the day to a higher power than myself and asking
Speaker 3: that higher power to guide the day and kind of
Speaker 3: setting my own intention to be in a listening mode
Speaker 3: and a co creation mode with that larger force through
Speaker 3: the day. And then at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: the prayer is more like, well, it's kind of a
Speaker 3: quick review of the day, like is there anything I
Speaker 3: want to apologize for?
Speaker 2: Is there.
Speaker 3: Like any yeah, amends that needs to be made? Is
Speaker 3: there are other places where I feel like I really
Speaker 3: missed the mark? What do I want to remember with
Speaker 3: gratitude from the day and savor. It's more like that.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 1: I love it. So I always ask my guests, what
Speaker 1: is something you have done recently to take a day
Speaker 1: from great to awesome?
Speaker 3: Such a great question. A few things come to mind.
Speaker 3: I mean one, I think one of the most reliable
Speaker 3: ways for me to do that is to move my body,
Speaker 3: and that just wakes me up, brings clarity, brings endorphins.
Speaker 3: So I love to dance, I love to lift weights,
Speaker 3: and I love to walk, and now I walk with
Speaker 3: a weighted vest too, which just gives me a little
Speaker 3: more like oomph out of a walk.
Speaker 2: So that's number one.
Speaker 3: I also really love exchanging voice memos with good friends.
Speaker 3: You know, we call it our podcast episodes because we
Speaker 3: can get on there and we talk for twenty minutes.
Speaker 3: But in this you know, family family working phase of life,
Speaker 3: it's quite hard to get a synchronous forty five minutes
Speaker 3: with another friend of mine who's also in that situation.
Speaker 2: Plus we have time zone. You know.
Speaker 3: My friends are all over the world, my close friends,
Speaker 3: and so that is just lovely. And getting to do
Speaker 3: a walk and listen to a friend. Sharon update for
Speaker 3: twenty minutes and then leave one that really adds a
Speaker 3: great deal.
Speaker 2: To my day too. I love it.
Speaker 1: I might have to start doing that because yes, it's
Speaker 1: like I like listening to podcasts where I think of
Speaker 1: the people as friends. So how much better to have
Speaker 1: my own personal podcast from someone who actually is yes,
Speaker 1: who knows me. Yeah, yeah, wonderful. So what are you
Speaker 1: looking forward to right now?
Speaker 2: Oh? What am I looking forward to right now? Well?
Speaker 2: My husband is lunch. I don't know, this is okay,
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Well no, I mean my listeners will have heard from him, Tara,
Speaker 1: they will from VIAU or in general, yes, via me.
Speaker 1: He was on his guest on the show a few
Speaker 1: weeks before yours airs.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, so then let's just say it.
Speaker 1: Okay, great, yeah, communicating between you two for okay.
Speaker 3: Oh that's right now, oh right, right right, okay, right now,
Speaker 3: it's coming back. See this is a midlife short term
Speaker 3: memory storage, et cetera.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, my husband Eric Reece is launching a book
Speaker 3: very soon called Incorruptible. It's a beautiful, important book that
Speaker 3: I'm so proud of him for creating. So I'm really
Speaker 3: looking forward to celebrating that coming into the world. It's
Speaker 3: around the corner. And you know, we met in college
Speaker 3: very much in the land of ideas, and so this
Speaker 3: much later in life when there's so much family project
Speaker 3: management in our lives. To just be celebrating a book
Speaker 3: launch and being talking about ideas so much more and
Speaker 3: getting to watch him share his voice in the world
Speaker 3: in that way, like, that's just been super fun and
Speaker 3: I'm really looking forward to the actual book launch week
Speaker 3: phase of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you both get to watch each other play big
Speaker 1: yes world. Where could people find you?
Speaker 3: Yes, I met taramore dot com and it's mohr. That's
Speaker 3: a good place to find me, and I dabble loose
Speaker 3: light very lately in social media, but I would much
Speaker 3: rather people find me via the website and the email list,
Speaker 3: and that's where I feel like we all get to
Speaker 3: talk with each other at a less breathless pace and
Speaker 3: longer form.
Speaker 1: Excellent. Well, Tara, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1: Thank you to everyone for listening. If you have feedback,
Speaker 1: as we hear, feedback is useful and you are by
Speaker 1: target audience people who are listening to this. If you
Speaker 1: have feedback about this or any other episode, you can
Speaker 1: always reach me at Laura at Laura vandercam dot com.
Speaker 1: In the meantime, this is Laura. Thanks for listening, and
Speaker 1: here's to making the most of our time. Thanks for
Speaker 1: listening to Before Breakfast. If you've got questions, ideas, or feedback,
Speaker 1: you can reach me at Laura at lauracam dot com.
Speaker 1: Before Breakfast is a production of iHeartMedia. For more podcasts
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