Speaker 1: Welcome to Movie Crush, a production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Hey everybody, and welcome to Movie Crush Friday Oscar Round
Speaker 1: Table Edition. Although this is a mere triangle if we're
Speaker 1: being honest. To my right, I have Casey Hello right
Speaker 1: in front of me at the far end of the table,
Speaker 1: through a mess of wires and microphone stands, which is
Speaker 1: super annoying. I had Annie. I like to exist within
Speaker 1: the mass and the chaos. That's all good. You do
Speaker 1: exist within the chaos and Annie, I should say. I
Speaker 1: saw on the movie Crushers page someone said, hey, did
Speaker 1: it was everyone like me and went and watched Annie
Speaker 1: in the city about it's awesome. So people are watching
Speaker 1: it and this the gentleman who posted this particular post
Speaker 1: loved it awesome. Well, thank you. We've gotten a few
Speaker 1: nice like Amazon and letterbox reviews, so that's cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's good, I think he said. I think his comment was,
Speaker 1: I could definitely see why Paul is doing a Sofia
Speaker 1: Coppela series. Yeah, that's true, So that's great. There's nothing
Speaker 1: wrong with wearing your inspirations on your sleeve. I love it.
Speaker 1: I think the first like twenty things I tried to
Speaker 1: write seem like, what do you allen movies? But I
Speaker 1: can't write those anymore. Guys, you can, you can get
Speaker 1: you can kind of take over that territory because he's
Speaker 1: I think other people already sort of have for sure.
Speaker 1: You gotta move quicker. I mean, no, a bomb box exactly.
Speaker 1: I was just thinking that he's not too far off
Speaker 1: from that field. Yeah, but he just is not a creep.
Speaker 1: But yeah, she said, be disappointment. We are here to
Speaker 1: talk about Joe. Joe Rabbit though delightful um what they
Speaker 1: describe it on wikipe is an American satirical tragic comedy film.
Speaker 1: Wow okay, written and directed by Taka Watiti. Did I
Speaker 1: pronounce that right? Yes? I believe so, who I think
Speaker 1: we can all agree is one of the most exciting,
Speaker 1: delightful people in the movie industry right now. I've doing ouf.
Speaker 1: This is the first film of his I've seen. People
Speaker 1: have been telling me I've got to check out Thor Wragnarok,
Speaker 1: and It's What's the Wilder People one? And Hunt for
Speaker 1: the Wilder People? Yeah, boy? And What We Do in
Speaker 1: the Shadows was on my short list. I love that movie.
Speaker 1: So you have seen it? Oh gosh, I love that
Speaker 1: and you want to talk about it with me, I
Speaker 1: feel like Christmas came early. Yeah. Do you like the
Speaker 1: TV show? Yes? All right, save it? Okay. I just
Speaker 1: wanted to know that. I don't know if that's a
Speaker 1: good or bad thing in your book, but now I
Speaker 1: love the TV show. Uh, Taka is great, Casey and
Speaker 1: Thor Wragnarok is in the Marble universe. Because you're not
Speaker 1: you're down with a lot of those movies right down
Speaker 1: with meaning like like sort of I'm more on the
Speaker 1: Scorcesean here we go. Uh well, thora Ragnarok is great,
Speaker 1: but if you're if you're not a fan of those moods,
Speaker 1: but I've heard that one kind of stands out from
Speaker 1: the from the crowd and is kind of um yeah,
Speaker 1: worth checking out, even even on its own. All right, Well,
Speaker 1: it's it is good. But he's great. He's a delight
Speaker 1: of a human from what I can tell. And Jojo
Speaker 1: Rabbit is a uh it's a pretty complex film, and
Speaker 1: I think the first thing that I want to talk about,
Speaker 1: if it's okay with y'all, is the tone, Because getting
Speaker 1: the tone of a film right isn't always important, but
Speaker 1: especially in this case, you really gotta get it right.
Speaker 1: This is about as like high wire balancing act, you know,
Speaker 1: as you can imagine, like there's so many places where
Speaker 1: you could miss step and and go off track and
Speaker 1: be utterly tasteless or just derail the film with too much,
Speaker 1: you know, deviate too much from the comedic into the
Speaker 1: tragic and so on. So it's such a fine balancing act,
Speaker 1: and I think he does it really really well. Whether
Speaker 1: or not the film as a whole, I thought was,
Speaker 1: you know, I like the movie, but even even outside that,
Speaker 1: the fact that he pulls this off at all and
Speaker 1: it isn't a complete disaster, that it isn't like Springtime
Speaker 1: for Hitler and the Producers or something, you know, the
Speaker 1: fact that it's actually like watchable and funny is incredibly impressive. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: what do you think? Anny? Totally? Yeah, I agree. I
Speaker 1: Actually I love Takoa t t love him. And I
Speaker 1: was hesitant to see this movie because I thought, I
Speaker 1: just don't know, And and the trailer I was watching
Speaker 1: it thinking this is gonna be hard to put. It's
Speaker 1: a tough movie to trailer. I think, Yeah, oh for sure, Um,
Speaker 1: it's hard to explain. I mean that wikipedia just all
Speaker 1: those genres shoved into the description that's tough, and I know. Um.
Speaker 1: They screened it fifteen times, and they eventually added the
Speaker 1: subtitle to to the name an anti hate satire because
Speaker 1: people were a little hesitant about especially in our current
Speaker 1: climate where Nazis are yep yep um. So I I
Speaker 1: definitely think that seeing through a child's eyes, um the
Speaker 1: hate and war, I feel like he succeeded in what
Speaker 1: he was trying to do. I know that some people
Speaker 1: it's been divisive, and some people think that it is
Speaker 1: too silly or you're connecting too much with Nazis, the
Speaker 1: good Nazis um. But for me, I seeing it from
Speaker 1: from the child's perspective, and and because he purposely went
Speaker 1: out of his way not to try to recreate Hitler,
Speaker 1: trying to be like a child's understanding of what Hitler
Speaker 1: would be, says things like that was intense. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that that helps it work because it is just
Speaker 1: this kid who doesn't really get it. He's like his
Speaker 1: imaginary friend. He's like a projection of JoJo's interior internal
Speaker 1: kind of like his shortcomings. His buddy Hitler is there
Speaker 1: to kind of like reassure him or tell him to
Speaker 1: be a little more assertive or whatever the case may be,
Speaker 1: like a like a girlfriend that was That was like
Speaker 1: the thing that I that I didn't necessarily know going in.
Speaker 1: I thought when I saw the kind of like goofy
Speaker 1: Hitler that he plays, I thought that might actually be
Speaker 1: quote unquote Hitler within the world of the film, and
Speaker 1: the fact that it is really just this child's imagination, um,
Speaker 1: and that the whole film is kind of like any saying,
Speaker 1: it's grounded in that child's perspective. You have a certain
Speaker 1: amount of innocence and and just not knowing. And as
Speaker 1: he kind of knows more and and actually meets like
Speaker 1: a real Jewish person and kind of realizes, oh, they're
Speaker 1: not these like cartoonish caricatures that we've been sold on,
Speaker 1: he immediately kind of starts to come around to the
Speaker 1: more you know, human kind of viewpoint that that um,
Speaker 1: these are not people to be afraid of, and you know, actually,
Speaker 1: this this Hitler guy seems pretty hateful, and so in
Speaker 1: that way, I think the film does work that that
Speaker 1: it remains in that perspective, and so he gets away
Speaker 1: with a lot more in the way of you know,
Speaker 1: some of the goofier things that happen. It works because
Speaker 1: it is coming from this, uh, this little kid's perspective. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it is a boy at dentse Dnse satire. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I can't imagine trying to sell this film in
Speaker 1: the room. Yeah, Like who asked for this movie? You know?
Speaker 1: He's like it's sort of mel Brooks meets Wes Anderson
Speaker 1: where there's this kid who turns out as hiking a
Speaker 1: Jewish girl in his attic against his will and his
Speaker 1: imaginary friend as Hitler. But it's very sweet and also
Speaker 1: tragic and um, just trust me, give me. However, I
Speaker 1: don't know what the budget was, but it was not cheap. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this this has to be one of those like blank
Speaker 1: check sort of you've you've made a number of hits
Speaker 1: for us, and so we're gonna let you do this
Speaker 1: one kind of thing. Yeah. Well, it's interesting because it's
Speaker 1: based on a book. Yeah, but the book has no
Speaker 1: imaginary friend Hitler or anything. But the company, the Film Studio,
Speaker 1: came to takeo with tcha and was like, we want
Speaker 1: you to do it based on his the indie films
Speaker 1: he'd already done, but we want you to play Hitler.
Speaker 1: And he was a little anxious about that. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: suggested that they did. Um. Yeah, And I'm not sure
Speaker 1: who I thought it was his idea to put the
Speaker 1: Hitler in there. I just know that there was that
Speaker 1: was there. They really wanted him to be the Hitler character.
Speaker 1: Um comedy. No, he just spun this thing on its head.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yes, he added a lot more comedic layers.
Speaker 1: I don't think it was necessarily an outright tragedy, only
Speaker 1: had elements of that. Um. But he I guess he
Speaker 1: knew his his wheelhouse and he thought what did he
Speaker 1: something about like the power of humor to connect with
Speaker 1: people and change people's minds. So uh yeah, And it's
Speaker 1: interesting now because it's twenty century Fox, which is owned
Speaker 1: by Disney, like technically a Disney huge umbrella. Yeah. But
Speaker 1: I do think like the elevated satire of it, Um,
Speaker 1: when Rebel Wilson's character is like, let's go burn, like,
Speaker 1: that helps too, because it was so over the top.
Speaker 1: I think that that helped make it more palatable. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think there are certain Like I think the way
Speaker 1: people respond to satire is all over the map, and
Speaker 1: some people really have a brain that's geared towards that
Speaker 1: and get it. Um. Other people, you know, look at
Speaker 1: the onion and just are still stupefied. Um. And I
Speaker 1: think to your point, putting a rebel Wilson in there
Speaker 1: to do what she did really was helped to drive
Speaker 1: that home in a big way. Like, hey, everyone, don't
Speaker 1: take this seriously. What you're watching is really deep deep
Speaker 1: satire or elevated satire. And she was so funny, she's great. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she said she had eighteen children for the call. I
Speaker 1: love her anyway, and she was she was just fantastic
Speaker 1: in this. Um the plot itself, I guess, uh, just
Speaker 1: to quickly go over, like what we said, is this
Speaker 1: Joe Joe Bettler is a ten year old boy Nazi Germany, uh,
Speaker 1: sort of at the end of World War Two, with
Speaker 1: a single mother named Rosy. Although we don't really know
Speaker 1: about the dad. He's supposedly fighting on the Italian front,
Speaker 1: but um, do we even find out. I think he's
Speaker 1: probably more of like a defector, right, Yeah, there's somebody
Speaker 1: that's okay, was that the deal kind of working for
Speaker 1: the resistance but from outside Germany? Maybe? Okay? I couldn't
Speaker 1: I couldn't quite remember. It's been a while since I've
Speaker 1: seen it the rumors where he had either defected or
Speaker 1: ran away. Gotcha, Okay, I didn't know he was alive
Speaker 1: or not. Uh. And then Joe Joe finds out he
Speaker 1: gets to the name Jojo rabbit Um from his by
Speaker 1: going to Nazi youth Hitler Youth training camp, and uh,
Speaker 1: it is picked on and he's bullied. And all this
Speaker 1: kid wants to do is be a good Nazi, which
Speaker 1: is one of the you know, the great character arcs
Speaker 1: in this movie. I think, is this young boy, you know,
Speaker 1: and I think, tonally, that's such a fine line. But
Speaker 1: a ten year old boy in Hitler's Germany would have
Speaker 1: been this because the little boys like to play war
Speaker 1: and that's all this was to them, and that probably
Speaker 1: would have been his idol because he doesn't know any
Speaker 1: better at that point. Yeah, And it's like it's a
Speaker 1: little counterintuitive at first because his mother is actively working
Speaker 1: against all this stuff, but then you realize that she
Speaker 1: has to basically, she has to allow her son to
Speaker 1: kind of, you know, um, be part of that that
Speaker 1: group think, because that's the only way he's going to
Speaker 1: survive if she If she starts to tell him right
Speaker 1: away that all this is wrong, and he's he's going
Speaker 1: to have no way to to blend in as a kid.
Speaker 1: It's going to come out one way or the other.
Speaker 1: And then he get enough dead. So it's like he
Speaker 1: has she has to kind of let him, um, just
Speaker 1: go on thinking like everybody else, because it's it's a
Speaker 1: matter of his own survival in that way, which was
Speaker 1: incredibly painful. Hyeah as a mother. And I mean we
Speaker 1: can go ahead and talk about some of the performances.
Speaker 1: Scarlett Johnson is really on a roll. Um, not that
Speaker 1: this is any kind of surprise, but like we talked
Speaker 1: about marriage Story, She's always been great, but these two
Speaker 1: powerhouse films here at the end of the year, and
Speaker 1: I think she's now. I think she's the highest paid
Speaker 1: actress in the world. She really, Yeah, because of the
Speaker 1: Marble stuff. I mean that has a lot to do
Speaker 1: with it, obviously, because they make gobs of money for
Speaker 1: those movies. But boys, she's good in this. She's fantastic now.
Speaker 1: She's always been great, Um, right from the beginning. I
Speaker 1: thought she always made interesting choices for for roles. And
Speaker 1: you know, her performance in a film like Under the
Speaker 1: Skin is really really impressive to me. Yeah, she's in
Speaker 1: that early Coen Brothers. Well early for her, wasn't there.
Speaker 1: So yeah, she's always been great. She's just such a
Speaker 1: lovable um, such a good mom in this movie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she was just fun and understanding and really caring, like
Speaker 1: in a terrible situation. Yeah. Yeah, and just trying to subtly,
Speaker 1: I guess, convince her son that this war is bad
Speaker 1: and we can if we can just dance or have
Speaker 1: fun or enjoy things. Yeah. Yeah. And the part where
Speaker 1: she puts the ash on her face and pretends to
Speaker 1: be the dad is so sweet and just heartbreaking. There's
Speaker 1: so many moments like that, And talk about the tone
Speaker 1: of this movie, so funny and so kind of Melbrook's
Speaker 1: goofy at times and then just sucks you in the
Speaker 1: face with stuff like that. Obviously, Um, their spoilers abound,
Speaker 1: So if you don't want to hear anything and you're
Speaker 1: this far into it, please turn it off. But when
Speaker 1: when she's killed, well there's the first public hanging that
Speaker 1: he sees his mother see and you know, he says,
Speaker 1: what do they do? And she says what they could? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you you know right there where she lands on it,
Speaker 1: and so he sets it up in two ways with
Speaker 1: that first public hanging and then that great shot of
Speaker 1: her shoes when she's walking on the wall next to him,
Speaker 1: because that's how he chose to reveal um, which is great,
Speaker 1: Like I didn't want to see her face, right right.
Speaker 1: I think he knew that no one wanted to see that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the scene starts out so innocently because Joejoe is
Speaker 1: following a beautiful butterfly, and then he kind of stands
Speaker 1: up and the shoes are right next to his face.
Speaker 1: And I think I told you all when I saw it,
Speaker 1: somebody in the theater shouted no at the screen. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And it holds on that for a decent amount. It
Speaker 1: makes you really sit with the sadness of that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And someone yelled out no, that's amazing, and like they
Speaker 1: shouted for everyone in the theater. Basically, it was one
Speaker 1: of those moments like everyone wanted to scream now. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And again it anchors you in that child's perspective because
Speaker 1: he's eye level with the shoes, and you know that
Speaker 1: being the first thing he saw before he looked up,
Speaker 1: You know that that would be the thing that's kind
Speaker 1: of steared in your mind. I would think if you
Speaker 1: had that kind of experience that would be like the
Speaker 1: detail that stuck in there. So yeah, really well done.
Speaker 1: And there's also the through line of him not being
Speaker 1: able to tie his shoes right and her always helping
Speaker 1: him tie the shoes, and so it's a really good
Speaker 1: example of what is he going to do now that
Speaker 1: she's gone, because she was taking care of him, she
Speaker 1: was doing this and now and and a good example
Speaker 1: of a payoff in a movie. Um, and it just
Speaker 1: now hit me that she ties shoes at the end
Speaker 1: of marriage time second movie this year. Yeah, think about that.
Speaker 1: I wonder if she's, like, what's going on, gonna be
Speaker 1: a cobbler in my next film? Uh? And then Jojo
Speaker 1: learns that her his mom is hiding a Jewish girl
Speaker 1: in the attic played by Thomas and Mackenzie. She is
Speaker 1: fucking fantastic in this movie. I had never seen her before,
Speaker 1: did you know anything? She'd kind of brand new. I
Speaker 1: don't know, actually, but she's the first time I've seen her.
Speaker 1: She I know she's been in one other thing. I
Speaker 1: hadn't seen it or heard of it, but yeah, pretty knew,
Speaker 1: I think, yes, Yeah, And the nature of their relationship
Speaker 1: and the evolution of their relationship is so it's also
Speaker 1: a coming of age movie and a and a love
Speaker 1: story like of young love in a way because, um,
Speaker 1: he learns of her her boyfriend what's his name, Nathan Neil,
Speaker 1: I have it in I have it in here somewhere
Speaker 1: Nathan Yet you're right, Uh, a boyfriend who we later
Speaker 1: find out she knows that he's dead, but he jojo
Speaker 1: like a ten year old boy might do, takes upon
Speaker 1: himself to these fake letters. Um that you know, end
Speaker 1: up in the end being really sweet. But at first
Speaker 1: he's you know, he's being really mean about it all. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that he almost immediately back checks. I like the
Speaker 1: Chaney's cane. He's like, but no, it's really fine. And
Speaker 1: that was such a sweet part. That kid man what's
Speaker 1: his name, Roman Griffin Davis really great performance. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: really interested to see where he goes. I love his friend.
Speaker 1: He's fantastic. Let me look him up Archie Yates, I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: I just saw he's the lead in some new movie.
Speaker 1: So he's already been cool. Yeah, tapped. Yeah, it's so
Speaker 1: good and it's the kids playing adult. You know that
Speaker 1: the end scene or one of the ending scenes where
Speaker 1: the war is over basically and Hitler has died at
Speaker 1: this point and uh and and little Yorki comes running
Speaker 1: through with his with his gun, playing war and they
Speaker 1: accidentally shoot off the uh was it a rocket rocket
Speaker 1: launcher or something. But it's funny still, it's amazing. He's
Speaker 1: really good. There's something about the little like chunky kid
Speaker 1: that like respond to in movies. It's very endearing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But at the same time, if you really think about it,
Speaker 1: it's so sad that, you know, the German forces have
Speaker 1: been so decimated that now they're just grabbing kids or
Speaker 1: whoever to kind of be on the front line and
Speaker 1: effectively just be a decoy or or you know, a
Speaker 1: distraction from the other soldiers that might remain. Undercurrent of
Speaker 1: realness is always there. Like it's satirical and funny, but
Speaker 1: also there was Hitler youth camps, and there were they
Speaker 1: were sticking kids out there, and I mean, you know
Speaker 1: that some of those kids did end up getting killed
Speaker 1: in combat. And so it's just on on one hand,
Speaker 1: it is kind of light and funny. It's kind of
Speaker 1: absurd on its face that they're out there kind of
Speaker 1: quote unquote playing at war, but then the reality of
Speaker 1: it was they really are at this point functioning as
Speaker 1: soldiers and you know, like, like I said, some of
Speaker 1: them are being killed. So yeah, heavy. So let's talk
Speaker 1: a minute about Sam Rockwell and Alfie Allen. I spent
Speaker 1: the entire movie trying to remember where I'd seen Alfie Allen,
Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, the very end. See, I'm
Speaker 1: not a big Game of Thrones guy, watched it, I
Speaker 1: think the first season and that was it. So I
Speaker 1: did the same thing and then had to look him
Speaker 1: up afterward. But he uh, I mean two characters that
Speaker 1: are are clearly homosexual, and that's played for laughs, but
Speaker 1: in also the satirical way that like you can't be
Speaker 1: out in Hitler's army at all um. But you know,
Speaker 1: by the end when they have on like full on
Speaker 1: makeup and he finally designed that outfit uniform, it was
Speaker 1: such a such a great payoff to actually have that happen.
Speaker 1: They were just great together. Sam Rockwell can do no wrong. No, no,
Speaker 1: he was great. He's one of the best. Stephen Merchant
Speaker 1: pops up near the end. I really enjoyed him to
Speaker 1: kind of kind of doing that trope of like the
Speaker 1: hyper intelligent menacing. Yeah, yeah, that we've seen. You know.
Speaker 1: It's it's sort of the the Christoph Vaults character from
Speaker 1: Inglore's Bastards or the guy from the Indiana Jones movies,
Speaker 1: and you know, yeah, that's such such a common trope
Speaker 1: that that sort of idea that, um, I think the
Speaker 1: point that's always been made with those characters is kind
Speaker 1: of like you can be this highly cultured, highly educated,
Speaker 1: sophisticated person and still be utterly evil, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And I thought it was really interesting that he finds
Speaker 1: the book Joe Joe is working on about how monstrous
Speaker 1: Jewish people are, in part inspired by um, the girl
Speaker 1: into yeah, yeah, and he Stephen Merchant's character is looking
Speaker 1: at it like this is really good. But yeah, and
Speaker 1: it's I thought that was interesting because it's almost like
Speaker 1: racism can just blind you to what you see and
Speaker 1: what you'll accept, because it to me, it felt pretty
Speaker 1: like he was being pretty legit when he said that, yeah,
Speaker 1: looking at this ridiculous thing. Yeah. Yeah, they were way
Speaker 1: into it. They're all like, this is fantastic. There's there
Speaker 1: is that moment where, um, you know, she realizes that
Speaker 1: she got the birthday wrong, right when he quizzes her,
Speaker 1: and she knows that, you know, although he acted like
Speaker 1: everything was on the level as they were leaving, she
Speaker 1: kind of knows deep down that, like they're probably gonna
Speaker 1: come back, you know, this is this is just his
Speaker 1: way of like planning it a little more before it
Speaker 1: has to happen. Yeah. Well, the big reveal though, we
Speaker 1: learn is that is that Sam Rockwell's captain has saved
Speaker 1: the day. And that's the tonal thing that is tough
Speaker 1: here when um, you're portraying nazis not as nothing but evil,
Speaker 1: as sort of funny or fun and or potentially helpful
Speaker 1: or an ally but you know, if he was a turncoat,
Speaker 1: which it turned out he really was, I mean, they
Speaker 1: carried that to its fruition fully. Yeah. Um, as he
Speaker 1: saved Jojo in the end to his own, you know death.
Speaker 1: So I think it's fair, you know, I mean, I
Speaker 1: I do think that is. Like I read a number
Speaker 1: of reviews for this movie that kind of ran the
Speaker 1: spectrum from super positive to kind of somewhere in the
Speaker 1: middle two more like heavily critical, and Richard Brodie's review
Speaker 1: I thought was pretty fair. He's He's a critic for
Speaker 1: one of the critics for The New Yorker, and um,
Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of his work. Sometimes I find
Speaker 1: him a little frustrating, but overall I'm I'm in favor
Speaker 1: of Richard Brody. Um. But his his big critique was
Speaker 1: was essentially that you know, by by by having this
Speaker 1: kind of trope of like the good German the good Nazi,
Speaker 1: you are kind of soft pedaling the reality of what
Speaker 1: this is because you're saying, this is a film about
Speaker 1: satirizing the Nazis and satirizing hate, but you're kind of
Speaker 1: filling it with characters that are somewhat the exception to
Speaker 1: that rule. And you know, the vast majority of these
Speaker 1: people were hateful, were you know, murderous and evil and
Speaker 1: so on. Um, So to kind of center the film
Speaker 1: around the one or two exceptions, it just it just
Speaker 1: kind of it makes it feel more palatable certainly, but
Speaker 1: it also kind of, um, it just softens the blow,
Speaker 1: and maybe it's a blow that should not be softened.
Speaker 1: What do you think any Yeah, I I I get
Speaker 1: that vpoint. I'm still kind of I guess wrestling with
Speaker 1: where I land on it. Um. I I remember I
Speaker 1: saw inglorious bastards in Europe in Germany, and I the
Speaker 1: difference of seeing it with that audience versus seeing it
Speaker 1: here made me really think about because for me, for I,
Speaker 1: World War Two is sort of removed and I know
Speaker 1: all about it, but I've seen more about it in
Speaker 1: movies and TV or read about it in books, so
Speaker 1: it's sort of easier for me to distance myself from it.
Speaker 1: At that moment of seeing Inglorious Bastards in Germany really
Speaker 1: crystallizing what was the was it just dead silent and
Speaker 1: if you could feel it, you could just feel the
Speaker 1: tension in the theater the entire time. So you know,
Speaker 1: when I saw Jojo Rabbit, the theaters was mostly people
Speaker 1: around my age. Um, so I don't know. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm wrestling with it. The approaches are both different from
Speaker 1: Tarantinos because he brought that up. Yes, I mean Glorious Bastards.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of the Christoph Wall stuff. I think
Speaker 1: you're meant to laugh at, but it's not satire. He's
Speaker 1: always menacing at the same time, like it's funny, but
Speaker 1: you're still terrified. You know that opening scene, for instance,
Speaker 1: that he's going to hear the people under the floorboards.
Speaker 1: You know that the tension is is incredible. But at
Speaker 1: the same time he is this kind of like charismatic
Speaker 1: screen presence. He's so good at being a villain. You
Speaker 1: can't help but kind of be I don't know, energized
Speaker 1: or something by his Yeah, it's hard to find the
Speaker 1: right word. Yeah. Yeah, because you're certainly not like on
Speaker 1: his side or anything like that. You sort of love
Speaker 1: to root against him or something. He's like you. I
Speaker 1: think I appreciate this approach a little more. I mean,
Speaker 1: I loved Inglorious Bastards, but this is so over the
Speaker 1: top satire to me, um, and my brain is so
Speaker 1: wired for satire that it it hit me and in
Speaker 1: all of the right ways, I think, But I certainly
Speaker 1: see how it might not. Yeah, And I think that's
Speaker 1: the key, is that it is so over the top that,
Speaker 1: at least for for a lot of the characters, you're
Speaker 1: supposed to be making fun of them, like look how
Speaker 1: silly this is, and again framing it from the child's
Speaker 1: perspective of look how childish this is, And like teaching
Speaker 1: hates to children, it's something that has learned. It's not
Speaker 1: like a natural thing. Yeah, tough them that you sent
Speaker 1: him to essentially Boy Scouts to Learn Hate. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean part of the movie felt like what a lot
Speaker 1: of people have, you know, nicknamed it moon Wreck Kingdom.
Speaker 1: Of course they have, you know, it's way ahead of
Speaker 1: me everybody. Um, it had that feel. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: clearly an inspiration and I think that was totally kind
Speaker 1: of the right thing to do too. Um. I'm curious
Speaker 1: about when he was flashing out the the Hitler role though,
Speaker 1: like how many, just privately, how many iterations he went
Speaker 1: through to get where he landed. I thought his performance
Speaker 1: was really good. It was fantastic, and um, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: funny that that, um that it's the people who had
Speaker 1: the rights to the book who kind of came with
Speaker 1: that idea. Yeah, I find that fascinating because just to me,
Speaker 1: I assumed it was more like he took on this
Speaker 1: project and he's like, how am I going to navigate
Speaker 1: this incredibly tough tonal balancing act. Well, at least I
Speaker 1: can put myself in the lead role so that I'm
Speaker 1: not putting that on somebody else, you know, so that
Speaker 1: I'm I'm kind of falling on the grenade if it's
Speaker 1: going to explode, you know, I'm going to be the
Speaker 1: one who's getting the majority of the blowback, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: so I kind of I thought that was something kind
Speaker 1: of honorable that he was doing. Like, if I'm going
Speaker 1: to ask somebody to to play this role in this way,
Speaker 1: it might as well be myself. Yeah, but it's such
Speaker 1: a good job. Yeah, he's I mean, he's he's a
Speaker 1: great performer. Yeah. I love at the end when he's
Speaker 1: he's got like the bloody nose and he's trying so
Speaker 1: hard to maintain his hold on Joe Joe. It's just
Speaker 1: like a total mess. Um. Yeah, it's funny to read
Speaker 1: a lot of the actors when they got the script
Speaker 1: were a little anxious about the whole thing. And he's
Speaker 1: gonna play Hitler. Yeah, imagine the page. It's it's a
Speaker 1: difficult read. Yes, and then to be directed from what
Speaker 1: I read he was sometimes in his Hitler outfit directed, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you would have to be kind of like going from yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: wow that stuff. Yeah. Probably probably not so many like
Speaker 1: behind the scenes photos splitting around. So yeah, I wonder
Speaker 1: if he found himself taking a more genteel approach behind
Speaker 1: the camera, not raising his voice or anything exactly, that
Speaker 1: would be weird. Um, But yeah, to end up playing
Speaker 1: him as like almost like a schoolgirl slumber party relationship.
Speaker 1: I think it was just kind of perfect. I mean,
Speaker 1: it was funny and um it also got a little
Speaker 1: almost Looney Tunes esque at times, especially the end, you know,
Speaker 1: when he when he kicks him through the window, which
Speaker 1: again I think those heightened approaches are what help help
Speaker 1: it be more palatable. Yeah, and the mask does slip
Speaker 1: from time to time and he does start to sound
Speaker 1: genuinely like hateful and frightening. It's a cool balance that
Speaker 1: he is like the kind of happy, go lucky, goofy
Speaker 1: imaginary friend, but there is that darkness kind of underneath
Speaker 1: it that you can sense as well, and that comes
Speaker 1: to the surface sometimes again just walking on a fishing line, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and trying to get that tone just right. It's a
Speaker 1: very ballsy movie, I think. Uh. I mean, I'm not
Speaker 1: one to call with a straight face called movie making brave,
Speaker 1: but um, you know, I think you're putting yourself out
Speaker 1: there with this kind of film. It's a huge gamble,
Speaker 1: particularly in the in the current climate. You know, like
Speaker 1: I said, there's there's a lot of people who would
Speaker 1: probably rather this movie have not been made, just the
Speaker 1: idea of of doing anything remotely humorous or playful or
Speaker 1: you know, satirical, let's say, around such a serious topic
Speaker 1: at a time where we are seeing the resurgence of
Speaker 1: that kind of ideology. So yeah, I mean it's or
Speaker 1: is it the perfect time? Well, that's the thing. I mean,
Speaker 1: chaplain made the great dictator, right, and and that's that
Speaker 1: sort of undercutting of the thing that we're so afraid of.
Speaker 1: That is this kind of like pure embodiment of evil,
Speaker 1: let's say. And to make that, to render that absurd
Speaker 1: and ridiculous, yeah, take away its power. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: that is like that. It's one of those things that
Speaker 1: when you can laugh at it, that's really when you
Speaker 1: when you kind of have power over it and you've
Speaker 1: taken the power back to say, you're ridiculous. You know,
Speaker 1: you don't deserve our fear, you kind of deserve our
Speaker 1: contempt or are are just our ridicule? You know? Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's almost panting Hitler, Yeah, in front of the whole
Speaker 1: world because he's so serious, you know, it takes himself
Speaker 1: so seriously and to make him an object a ridicule
Speaker 1: really undercuts that more than pretty much anything. What about
Speaker 1: just filmmaking wise. I mean it looked great. The costuming
Speaker 1: was fantastic. In the set design. Um, you know, say
Speaker 1: what you want about the Nazis, but they had great uniforms. Well,
Speaker 1: they had that a very strong aesthetic sense, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean that's again, that's there's that, There's that the
Speaker 1: awareness of that gap, that that you could be highly
Speaker 1: um developed in your sort of appreciation of art and
Speaker 1: form and aesthetics and so on, and still end up
Speaker 1: so far yield of you know, good or morality and
Speaker 1: so on. Yeah. Yeah, And I think the music was
Speaker 1: really good. I love the German Beatles. Yeah, right in
Speaker 1: the beginning started to end it. Yeah, it's funny because
Speaker 1: I took German in high school and I remember singing
Speaker 1: I want to hold your hand. That was one of
Speaker 1: the like the things we did in class, was brought
Speaker 1: in the German Beatles. And yeah, so when that first
Speaker 1: came on, I was like, oh man, I'm in from
Speaker 1: mcculla's class, tenth grade all over again. After this movie,
Speaker 1: I got home and went on YouTube and just like,
Speaker 1: listen to the whole playlist of all the job It's great.
Speaker 1: You know, there's like five or six of them. I
Speaker 1: think yeah, it was the kind of the perfect choice.
Speaker 1: What other music was in it? I'm trying to remove
Speaker 1: at the end Heroes, you know, a German version of
Speaker 1: that as well. Yeah, And I'm trying to remember there
Speaker 1: were any other like pop songs. I don't think so
Speaker 1: it's just those too. Yeah. And the rest is like
Speaker 1: score maybe yeah. I think they shot it in Prague?
Speaker 1: Makes sense? Was that it? It makes sense? Well, I
Speaker 1: just mean like the in terms of ping stuff that
Speaker 1: still feels like it's from that. Yeah. You can't shoot
Speaker 1: it in Atlanta? Yeah, right right. That would have been
Speaker 1: great though, because then I could have bugged to get
Speaker 1: him in the studio. Oh you did throw out here?
Speaker 1: Oh that's true. Yeah, I know these you can't get
Speaker 1: a director. I've tried in there. If they're in town shooting,
Speaker 1: everyone's like, come on, I don't have time. They don't.
Speaker 1: They don't have an hour for you, in ten minutes
Speaker 1: for you, which is fine, I get it. Um, what
Speaker 1: else can we talk about? What else you got? Great script?
Speaker 1: I mean it was nominated already for Best Motion Picture
Speaker 1: Musical or Comedy, uh at the Golden Globes, and then
Speaker 1: um Best Actor for for the Kid and that's it.
Speaker 1: I kind of thought it would be a shoe in
Speaker 1: for a screenplay nomination. I don't know, it's maybe it's
Speaker 1: tough competition this year because they're only doing five in
Speaker 1: each category, right, are they for Golden Globes? Oh? I
Speaker 1: don't know Golden Globes. I have no idea. Yeah, Oscars,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, yeah, are they back down to five? I
Speaker 1: think they are. Yeah, Well that's WoT you no idea?
Speaker 1: I do you know that? Like, you know, they did
Speaker 1: the ten for Best Picture for a year or two,
Speaker 1: and it seems like they've kind of walked that back
Speaker 1: a little bit. Ten's too many. Yeah, yeah, I think
Speaker 1: we can all agree. I think it'll be a nominee
Speaker 1: for for writing. I'd love to see a couple of
Speaker 1: acting nods. I mean, I guess Scarlett Johansson is a
Speaker 1: lock for marriage Story, so I doubt if they will,
Speaker 1: although it could be a supporting actor exactly, it could
Speaker 1: be both categories. She gets leading in a supporting nomin
Speaker 1: for her to be pretty sweet? Um, and maybe you
Speaker 1: know you always like seeing kids nominated. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I definitely deserve it. I mean that's it's a rarity
Speaker 1: that you get like a great performance from a kid,
Speaker 1: you know, and we got a bunch of it. That's
Speaker 1: a really special thing when that happens, Like Thomas and Mackenzie.
Speaker 1: She she should get nominated too. Yeah, I loved her
Speaker 1: demean her when she first came out. She feels kind
Speaker 1: of dangerous. She's the one hiding, right, but she feels
Speaker 1: like she has more power than he does. It does.
Speaker 1: It's almost like, yeah, and it's interesting to say it
Speaker 1: this way, like there's a monster in the attic to him,
Speaker 1: the Jewish girl is the monster in the attic, so
Speaker 1: that that's probably the threat that he feels. But then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, he's a little boy, got the butterfly,
Speaker 1: and yeah, she's she's cute, and oh boy, what are
Speaker 1: these feelings? I mean, I mean that that's another critique
Speaker 1: you can make, like what if it were somebody older,
Speaker 1: somebody you know, who's not cute, you know, he probably
Speaker 1: would have sold them that might not be there, you know.
Speaker 1: So it does it does kind of raise that that
Speaker 1: question of like the dominoes had to fall a certain
Speaker 1: way for Jojo to kind of find his way out
Speaker 1: of this this mentality that he was in, because it
Speaker 1: could have easily gone the other way. You know, it
Speaker 1: could have been somebody that he was not hesitant to
Speaker 1: report on. You know, for instance, true Love wins. Is
Speaker 1: that a message love conquers all, conquers all. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: that heartbreak at the end. You know, she doesn't feel
Speaker 1: that way about him. So she's he's tin and she's
Speaker 1: what like twelve. I think, Okay, it's one of those
Speaker 1: things where it's like the age gap kind of in
Speaker 1: a way ensures that there can't really be a relationship
Speaker 1: there in that way, a romantic relationship. Um, so it's
Speaker 1: but I think I think she her way of looking
Speaker 1: at him is just like once once things have kind
Speaker 1: of leveled off, and he's more like he has like
Speaker 1: a crush on her. I think she just finds it endearing,
Speaker 1: but you know she's not going to act on it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and she calls him a little brother. Yeah. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: like the classic yeah exactly right him. Yeah, He's like,
Speaker 1: you're not a little in that opinion. It's just now
Speaker 1: hitting me to that. Sam Rockwell, he played a character
Speaker 1: that had some controversy in the Billboards movie too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've heard he's like cornered the market on that Yeah,
Speaker 1: authority becomes sympathetic. Yeah, yeah, I gets. I mean I
Speaker 1: see the point people are making. Maybe I'm just a
Speaker 1: dumb dumb who checks my brain at the door a
Speaker 1: little bit. I mean, you see, you see him do
Speaker 1: much worse on screen and three billboards than you do
Speaker 1: here here. He's just kind of like the goofy camp
Speaker 1: counselor who I think there's some reference to he Like
Speaker 1: he's already messed up in some other capacity, so he's
Speaker 1: been reduced to this kind of that's like the first
Speaker 1: speech that he has when he's in front of all
Speaker 1: the kids, he's like, you know, I forget what it was,
Speaker 1: but he's like, I goofed up and that's why I'm here,
Speaker 1: you know. So and then he gets further the Great Grenades, Yeah,
Speaker 1: is blown back. So he's not like he's a bad
Speaker 1: Nazi in a number of ways, you know, Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I mean at the clearly the worst way that he's
Speaker 1: a bad Nazi is that he's I don't think he's
Speaker 1: a true Nazi in his heart, Like every action he
Speaker 1: takes in the movie kind of subverts it. Yeah, for
Speaker 1: the most part, And that ending is great, you know,
Speaker 1: he he gives up his own life to save Jojo. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I do. I love that scene where you know Jojo
Speaker 1: as a child. It really doesn't understand why he's telling
Speaker 1: him to leave, why he's telling him to run away,
Speaker 1: why he's taking his uniform off him and all that.
Speaker 1: Sam Rockwell of course obviously knows that, Yeah, he's liable
Speaker 1: to get executed if he hangs around, so he's just like,
Speaker 1: just you know, just get out of her. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: kind of wondered if it was a throw back to
Speaker 1: the beginning when Jojo can't kill the rabbit. Um, and
Speaker 1: just that like when you're faced with the moment and
Speaker 1: then and Sam Rockwell kind of seeze this innocent rabbit,
Speaker 1: it was like trying to save it. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: you're right, Annie, I totally think you're right. Uh. And
Speaker 1: then the real ending, you know, with those kids going
Speaker 1: out on the street and seeing life returning and then
Speaker 1: dancing together. It was just so perfect, such a sweet ending. Uh.
Speaker 1: It really like, uh, hit you in all the right spots.
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, And and and this is after Jojo
Speaker 1: has lied to her and ny one and she has
Speaker 1: to stay and that forever. But then he that was
Speaker 1: a tense moment. I was like, oh, man, like you
Speaker 1: were going in the right direction. Yeah, you have aired.
Speaker 1: So what was going on there? He just wanted to
Speaker 1: keep her. He was afraid of what was going to happen.
Speaker 1: He was going to lose her, to leave because he
Speaker 1: doesn't have anybody now yeah, I mean he's an orphan now.
Speaker 1: So yeah, there were so many tense moments like that,
Speaker 1: and of course, you know you already mentioned briefly the
Speaker 1: one where she got the age wrong. Uh man, I
Speaker 1: was I thought they were going to take her. That
Speaker 1: was super tense that scene. Yeah, yeah, that would have
Speaker 1: been the other big moment. So what happens to Jojo?
Speaker 1: Now he's I mean, is there a dad that's going
Speaker 1: to come back? No? I think I think don't they
Speaker 1: don't They even say that he's dead at some point.
Speaker 1: They might make a casual reference to I thought I
Speaker 1: remember that, but yeah, yeah, I mean it's kind of
Speaker 1: throughout that either he deserted or died or right away.
Speaker 1: And the way it's Scarlett Johanson's character, Rosie, she kind
Speaker 1: of carries herself as if he's not coming whatever. In
Speaker 1: the cases, he's not coming back right right. So I
Speaker 1: feel like they said something about going to Paris. I
Speaker 1: know that her boyfriend was dead. For some reason, I
Speaker 1: seemed to recall that they were talking about going to parents. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it seems about right. Yeah, man, I hated losing Rosie.
Speaker 1: It's one of those things in a movie where like
Speaker 1: it's the right thing for the movie, but it's just
Speaker 1: so devastating to a to a viewer. But it's a
Speaker 1: reminder of the stakes. You know, if everybody comes out okay,
Speaker 1: then it's like, what's the movie about. Really? Yeah, you
Speaker 1: had to have something like that. Yeah, And I honestly
Speaker 1: I should have seen it coming, but I did it.
Speaker 1: Um And in that part where Jojo witnesses her like
Speaker 1: handing out the flyers after he's putting up all of
Speaker 1: these ro Nazi fires and she's handing out these kind
Speaker 1: of resistance flyers. In the first group of people they
Speaker 1: saw hanging in the square, they had those flying to
Speaker 1: them as a warning. So she knew, yeah, that they
Speaker 1: were they were onto her, and she kept doing it
Speaker 1: anyway to stuff anything else, Well, I was going to
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about this movie does have kind
Speaker 1: of a number of I would say predecessors or or
Speaker 1: or just movies that are somehow in conversation with this movie. Uh,
Speaker 1: there's a movie that Roberto Russellini made right at the
Speaker 1: end of World War Two in the actual bombed out Berlin,
Speaker 1: like in the actual ruins, called Germany Year Zero, which
Speaker 1: is about a young kid around JoJo's age who was
Speaker 1: you know, former Hitler youth. The war now being just over,
Speaker 1: and it's it's a very kind of like brutal film
Speaker 1: about this kid wandering through the rubble of the city
Speaker 1: and it does not have a happy ending. You know,
Speaker 1: things do not work out well for that kid. He's
Speaker 1: really Um it's about sort of this generation that was
Speaker 1: caught in the crossfire of all this stuff, of being
Speaker 1: indoctrinated into this this hateful ideology and then having all
Speaker 1: that fall away, and now they're kind of just in
Speaker 1: this awkward position of we're still kids, so we're not
Speaker 1: really fully morally responsible in the way that an adult
Speaker 1: would be, but we are still kind of we've been
Speaker 1: given that belief in what do we do now. That's
Speaker 1: one film. There's a German film called The Tin Drum,
Speaker 1: which I believe might have one um like Best Foreign
Speaker 1: Film at the Oscars and I think nine when it
Speaker 1: came out, Um which is kind of told from the
Speaker 1: perspective of this German boy and he has It's it's
Speaker 1: sort of in that absurdist fantasy kind of tone as well, Um,
Speaker 1: who kind of reject you know, all of society, Um,
Speaker 1: German society at that time. Yeah, it's sort of felt familiar.
Speaker 1: I mean, kids during war and it was Empire of
Speaker 1: the Sun and hoping glory. Like there are films that
Speaker 1: have sort of danced through that world before. Uh, that
Speaker 1: is just so tragic, you know, a child in wartime
Speaker 1: and most of these movies are either alone or with
Speaker 1: a gang of other kids who have been either disassociated
Speaker 1: from their folks or they've died. Yeah, there's there's sort
Speaker 1: of left without an adult figure and they really have
Speaker 1: to grow up fast if they're going to survive. Another
Speaker 1: film like that's come and see. Have you seen that film?
Speaker 1: No that I listened to the Friendly Fire episode on
Speaker 1: that made me totally want to see it and never
Speaker 1: see it. At the same time, I would say see it,
Speaker 1: you know, um it sounds like a slog well, I
Speaker 1: mean it is unrelenting lye bleak ye and it's the
Speaker 1: kind of film that I probably I probably will not
Speaker 1: watch again. You know, maybe maybe because it is extremely
Speaker 1: well made. Um, but man, it is it is just
Speaker 1: like a knife in the heart for like two and
Speaker 1: a half hours. It's really long as well. And um,
Speaker 1: it's it's one. But to me, it's just kind of it.
Speaker 1: It is what the most real feeling film about being
Speaker 1: a child abandoned in wartime and really like what that
Speaker 1: must have been like. And to me it made the
Speaker 1: war so much more like viscerally, um understandable in a
Speaker 1: way that I had never quite grasped before from even
Speaker 1: other films about children in wartime. Um, this one is
Speaker 1: just like it's so um unblinking, you know, in in
Speaker 1: the way it depicts what happens in war. So you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's an important film. It's a really really well
Speaker 1: made film, but it is extremely hard to watch. Cann't see, Annie,
Speaker 1: I have not seen it. No, all right, that's all
Speaker 1: I've got, Jojo Rabbit fantastic. Shall we give it some
Speaker 1: thumbs out of five? Annie, you go first, I'll give
Speaker 1: it four, all right, Casey, I'll give it three and
Speaker 1: a half, three and a half thumbs. Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's one that I mean, I saw it a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks ago. It's one that hasn't necessarily stuck in
Speaker 1: my mind very much. Um So, I don't think it's
Speaker 1: it's something that I'm going to be thinking about for
Speaker 1: a long time per se. But I do have to
Speaker 1: give it, you know, a lot of respect for for
Speaker 1: just taking something so challenging as this material in this
Speaker 1: tone and actually coming out of it looking pretty good.
Speaker 1: So he's certainly an exciting filmmaker. Yeah. Yeah, He's one
Speaker 1: of those where we're catching him right at the beginning
Speaker 1: and we get to see so much. I'm so thankful
Speaker 1: that we get to see all this stuff unfold before
Speaker 1: us and what is going to be a really unusual career.
Speaker 1: It does make me want to see his other films,
Speaker 1: so that's always a good sign. I'm gonna give it
Speaker 1: four and a half because I thought it all all
Speaker 1: worked and for what it was, it it hit all
Speaker 1: the marks for me, So four and a half thumbs
Speaker 1: for Joe Joe Rabbit. I can't wait to see it again.
Speaker 1: It did stick with me. I found myself thinking about
Speaker 1: this movie a lot for like the week after I
Speaker 1: saw it, And uh, Emily has not seen it yet,
Speaker 1: and she really wants to so maybe I'll try and
Speaker 1: get out in the theater before it leaves again with her.
Speaker 1: That's my goal. Alright. Uh, New Year's over. Thanks y'all.
Speaker 1: Thank you a lot of fun. I think. Well, we'll
Speaker 1: definitely do more round tables. It didn't necessarily have to
Speaker 1: be oscar stuff. Uh, these are a lot of fun,
Speaker 1: so let's just do more thistly alright, Happy Holidays. For
Speaker 1: more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I heart
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
Speaker 1: favorite shows.