Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.
Speaker 2: I'd like to pause for a conversation about Africa this morning.
Speaker 2: Nigeria's economy grew at its fastest pace in three years
Speaker 2: at the end of twenty twenty four, after a period
Speaker 2: of some turbulence and economic slowdown. GDP in fact grew
Speaker 2: by three point eight four percent in annual terms, led
Speaker 2: by the services sector. But as all prices look set
Speaker 2: to stall this year, Nigeria is looking to plug the
Speaker 2: gap with international trade and foreign direct investment. And to
Speaker 2: our guests in the radio studio this morning, delighted to
Speaker 2: welcome YUCF Tuga, who is the Minister of Foreign Affairs
Speaker 2: of Nigeria on a visit to the UK today. Of one,
Speaker 2: welcome to you alongside our Bloomberg reported tiwa Ada Baio
Speaker 2: for a conversation about Nigeria this morning. But of course
Speaker 2: we have to speak firstly about the geopolitical flux that
Speaker 2: we are in currently, President Trump reversing US support for US,
Speaker 2: putting tariffs on allies, reshaping in many senses the Western axis.
Speaker 2: Where do you think, Minister, that Nigeria's place is in
Speaker 2: this new world order?
Speaker 1: Good morning, morning, Nigeria's place is first and foremost, sitting
Speaker 1: on two hundred and seven trillion cubic feet of gas,
Speaker 1: so it presents opportunity for US as a destination for
Speaker 1: big tech, for AI data miners. These are things that
Speaker 1: consume a lot of energy, and energy we have and
Speaker 1: we've always maintained the position that having a reliable and
Speaker 1: affordable source of energy is something that should go hand
Speaker 1: in hand hand with the energy transition, and that's what
Speaker 1: we've been working on.
Speaker 3: Minister, Thank you for joining us. We're just talking about
Speaker 3: the rich resources in Nigeria and in the continent of
Speaker 3: Africa as a whole. But last week at the G
Speaker 3: twenty meetings in South Africa, notable absences were senior Trump
Speaker 3: administration officials. Do they recognize the potential of Nigeria and
Speaker 3: of Africa?
Speaker 1: They do. I believe they do because there are US
Speaker 1: IOCs in Nigeria. Chevron is there, Exomobile is there, and
Speaker 1: Nigeria and the US have maintained good relations, close relations
Speaker 1: since the inception of Nigeria since Nineteis we became independent
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty, so they're not oblivious to what is
Speaker 1: going on in Nigeria. We're currently also working on two
Speaker 1: significant gas pipelines. We have the African Atlantic Gas Pipeline
Speaker 1: that would see Nigerian gas delivered to Morocco via almost
Speaker 1: fifteen African West African littoral states and then possibly onto
Speaker 1: Europe via the magrab line. And then we have the
Speaker 1: Transaharent Gas pipeline, also through the DJL onto Algeria and
Speaker 1: possibly to Europe.
Speaker 3: Given that history of long cooperation, then were you disappointed
Speaker 3: not to see them at that G twenty meeting in
Speaker 3: South Africa on the continent.
Speaker 1: Well, they were not present, they had a representative there.
Speaker 1: I believe there was a shaget affair from the US
Speaker 1: embassy in South Africa. So I mean these things happened.
Speaker 1: You have summits where China doesn't show up or Russia
Speaker 1: doesn't show up. But it's not to say that in
Speaker 1: the US no longer has a vested interest in matters
Speaker 1: that affect the global economy. But more importantly, we want
Speaker 1: to see Nigeria also in the in the G twenty
Speaker 1: speaking up for the global South, for Africa, for Sub
Speaker 1: Saharan Africa.
Speaker 2: But that is the question mark, isn't it?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 2: Around the Trump White House, the concern that actually the
Speaker 2: priority is on economic ties, you know, perhaps to the
Speaker 2: deptment of security issues. And I was listening to one
Speaker 2: of your speeches last week. You were talking about the
Speaker 2: need to respect sovereign states, the need, for example, for
Speaker 2: a two state framework in Israel, and girls is the
Speaker 2: United States still a reliable partner for you?
Speaker 1: For US? The US remains a reliable partner because we
Speaker 1: have never been focus exclusively on multilateralism and lulling ourselves
Speaker 1: into thinking that national interest was normal, or the Westphalian
Speaker 1: state system was no longer in existence because of multilateralism.
Speaker 1: They go hand in hand. It's always remained there. So
Speaker 1: it's if you like the diff between realism and constructive constructivism,
Speaker 1: and they've always existed side by side. And that's why
Speaker 1: I suppose this was a wake up call or rude awakenic.
Speaker 1: But it's a reality check and we must get on
Speaker 1: with diplomacy, with state craft and work around things. But
Speaker 1: that's the beauty of democracy as well, because we have
Speaker 1: term limits, we have changes in policy, and when we
Speaker 1: lose elections, we go back to think tanks and hone
Speaker 1: our skills and our policies and come back. So that's
Speaker 1: geopolitics and the international system is an anarchic system and
Speaker 1: it always will be.
Speaker 3: Just on that point of the changing face of geopolitics
Speaker 3: and particularly around diplomacy, you say that the election of
Speaker 3: Donald Trump has been a wake up call or reality check.
Speaker 3: Do you see that potential changing your approach to diplomacy,
Speaker 3: particularly around Nigeria's relationship with China. There's been historically deep
Speaker 3: economic ties, particularly in relation to infrastructure, but we've just
Speaker 3: seen this morning the US has doubled tariff levies on China.
Speaker 3: Do you see that changing your relationship with China? Will
Speaker 3: you have to tread more carefully?
Speaker 1: Perhaps, no, we don't. Nigeria is a fearless country. Nigeria's
Speaker 1: foreign policy has always been guided by moral precepts and
Speaker 1: ethical conduct, and we were non aligned and now the
Speaker 1: fullconm of our foreign policy is strategical autonomy. So it's
Speaker 1: more or less the same thing. So we look out
Speaker 1: for our national interims interest but at the same time,
Speaker 1: we're responsible citizens of the world and we make sure
Speaker 1: we work with others and we don't allow anyone to
Speaker 1: dictate to us who our friends should be.
Speaker 2: Okay, have you seen a drop off in support from allies,
Speaker 2: including the US and UK when it comes to domestic
Speaker 2: security issues, if we can talk about that for a moment,
Speaker 2: including military support for the fight the battle against Bocohr
Speaker 2: Arm for example. Is there been a drop off in
Speaker 2: that sort of support.
Speaker 1: No way of not. We never had US troops in Nigeria,
Speaker 1: unlike some of our neighbors. We never had UK troops
Speaker 1: in our neighbors, and unlike our neighbors, so we continue
Speaker 1: to collaborate with them. We always had a problem with
Speaker 1: the Leahy law. We weren't being sold equipment and we
Speaker 1: have resorted to besides sourcing it in other countries, we're
Speaker 1: also looking to manufacture produce so that you know, we
Speaker 1: go back to that strategic autonomy I was speaking to.
Speaker 1: So we're not like some of our neighbors that had
Speaker 1: them their presence. And it was Nigeria that led Ecomogue
Speaker 1: to resettle Sira Leone, it was Nigeria that led Ecomogue
Speaker 1: to resettle Liberia. We actually succeeded in peace building where
Speaker 1: others actually failed. And some of the failures that we're
Speaker 1: experiencing today in the Sahel have to do with the
Speaker 1: fact that Nigeria was not included. Nigeria was not part
Speaker 1: of the G five Sahl Operation Barkhani eus Hell strategy.
Speaker 2: In terms of the guest pipeline, want to go back
Speaker 2: then to the economics of it. How big do you
Speaker 2: think that that business is going to be and how
Speaker 2: reliable will that be? If you're trying to get that
Speaker 2: pipeline into.
Speaker 1: It's going to be huge. We would look to attract
Speaker 1: US investors, European investors.
Speaker 2: Chinese on this trip that that might happen.
Speaker 1: We have brought it up, discussions ongoing. We have a
Speaker 1: platform further discussions with the United Kingdom. We have what
Speaker 1: we refer to as strategic partnership that covers different sectors.
Speaker 1: So that is something we're going to pursue further.
Speaker 3: I just have to ask you, minister, since you're in
Speaker 3: the UK, on the question of the Beneath bronzes. We
Speaker 3: had recently that the Netherlands are planning on sending back
Speaker 3: over a hundred Beneaen bronzes. There are supposedly nine hundred
Speaker 3: just in the British Museum alone. In your discussions with
Speaker 3: UK officials on your visit, is that something you've raised
Speaker 3: and is it something that you want to see those
Speaker 3: Beneen bronzes returned to Nigeria.
Speaker 1: Well, certainly it's something that our mission here, our Embassy,
Speaker 1: our High Commission, has been working on and has been
Speaker 1: discussing with the British authorities. I know the subject very
Speaker 1: well because as ambassador in Germany I worked on the
Speaker 1: return of one three hundred and twenty eight bill in
Speaker 1: bronzes from German public museums. So it's not easy, and
Speaker 1: especially in a country like the United Kingdom where and
Speaker 1: France where the laws were changed or made specifically for
Speaker 1: that to sort of preclude the return. Okay.
Speaker 2: So that on the bid involves is in terms of
Speaker 2: you're here to forge greater alliances with businesses in the
Speaker 2: UK to try to attract inward investment and especially into
Speaker 2: the tech sector in Nigeria. What is the kind of
Speaker 2: growth potential that you see? What are the sorts of
Speaker 2: noises that you've heard from businesses here about those sorts
Speaker 2: of business ties between the two. What's the kind of
Speaker 2: biggest hope that you've got.
Speaker 1: There's a huge potential in business process outsourcing because it's
Speaker 1: for us, it's a growth area and we see it
Speaker 1: also as a panicier to the irksome debate between the
Speaker 1: two countries to do with irregular migration because we have businesses.
Speaker 1: In fact, I came along with one of them that
Speaker 1: is on the lookout for for for Nigerians with with
Speaker 1: British accents to recruit in her business. In her bp
Speaker 1: O business. She is also working on expanding her remote
Speaker 1: learning business aspect of the business because we have seen
Speaker 1: a reduction in the issuance of visas to Nigerians to
Speaker 1: British universities, and we know that the British universities are
Speaker 1: quite keen on having Nigerians because they continue to grant
Speaker 1: them admission, but they can't get enough visas. So remote
Speaker 1: learning might be an alternative to that, so long as
Speaker 1: it would be properly structured, accredited and all of that.
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you so much for being with us this morning.
Speaker 2: We have to leave it there, Yusuf Tuga, as Minister
Speaker 2: of Foreign Affairs of Nigeria, but we thank you very
Speaker 2: much for coming in person into the radio studio and
Speaker 2: just giving us some of the details of your trip
Speaker 2: to the UK some of the main priorities for Nigeria
Speaker 2: alongside Bloomberg reported tia Adebayo. Thank you so much for
Speaker 2: your time,